being thereby abolished and extirpated his power of Ordination must be destroyed with his Function as well as suspended All which considered I cannot but conclude the Kings finall Answer as to the Office of and Ordination by Bishops to be compleatly satisfactory to our demands And so much the rather because the King in this particular of Ordination pleads only dissatisfaction in polnt of Conscience for closing with us in this seeming punctilio and if it were not meerly Conscience though some have over rashly censured it for a meer pretence to keep up Bishops still he that hath granted and yeelded us the greater would never contest with us for the lesser nor go so far in the abolition of Episcopacy as he hath done And truly I doubt not but His Majesty by conference may soon be satisfied in this point Nay had his own Divines dealt faithfully with him in the Isle of Wight He might have beene easily satisfied in this particular in which I doubt not by Gods blessing to undertake to satisfie him both in point of Episcopacy that it is in all things the same with Presbytery and that the ordination of Presbyters and Ministers by divine Right belongs only to Presbyters as such and not to Bishops as Bishops who for above a thousand years after Christ claimed the chief but not the sole interest in it not by divine Right and Authority but meerly by Canons and Custom long after the Apostles time which I have proved at large long since in my Vnbishoping of Timothy and Titus which none of the Bishops or their Patrons ever yet attempted to answer though I particularly challenged them to do it Only this I shall now say in brief for some satisfaction in the point to other Members 1. That there is no one Text of Scripture to prove that Bishops Iure divine are distinct from Presbyters in any thing much less in this particular of having a negative Voice or sole or principall interest as Bishops so distinguished in the power of Ordinationâ— but a direct Text to the contrary 1 Tim. 4. 14 to omit others 2 That the pretence of impropriating Ordination to Bishops distinct from Presbyters by divine Right is grounded upon these two gross mistakes that Timothy and Titus were Bishops properly so called the one of Ephesus the other of Crete and that this power of ordaining Elders was vested in them quatenus Bishops only and not otherwise by divine institution for proof of the first the Postscriptâ— of Pauls Epistles to them and no one Text of Scripture are cited and the 1 Tim. 5. 22. Tit. 1. 5. relating only to Ordination for the latter But it is clear as the noon-day Sun by Scripture that Timothy was never a Bishop properly so called much lesse the first or sole Bishop of Ephesus as is evident by sundry texts especially by Act. 20. 4 5 6 15 17 18 21 29 30 31. compared together nor Titus a Bishop properly so termed distinct from a Presbyter much lesse the first or sole Bishop of Crete nor do either of those texts prove that they had the power of Ordination by divine Right vested in them two meerly as Bishops distinct from or superiour to Presbyters as I have undenyably manifested in my Vnbishoping of Timothy and Titus And as for the Postscripts to these Epistles terming Timothy ordained first Bishop of Ephesus and Titus of Crete they are no part of the text first extant in and invented by Occumenius none of the authentickst Authors above 1050 years after Christ and annexed only to the end of his Commentary on those Epistles not adjoyned to the Text and they are not only omitted in most Manuscripts and printed Editions and Translations of these Epistles but apparently false in themselves as I have at large demonstrated in some printed Books Therefore this point of conscience may soone be satisfied 3 That no Bishops for 1200 years after Christ did ever claim the chief power in Ordination by any Divine Right as Bishops but meerly by Canons or Custom long after the Apostles and that in the Primitive times before any reâ—â—riction by Councels Presbyters in many places did not only ordain Ministers and Deacous without Bishops and Bishops never but jointly with Presbyters but likewise ordaine Bishops themselves as Ierome Epiphanius Augustine and others assure us and sometimes joined in the consecration and enstallment of Popes themselves and Archbishops for defect of Bishops 4. That it is the constant tenent of all the eminentest Protestant Divines and some learned Papists too and the practice of all the reformed Churches that the Divine right of Ordination belongs originally to the whole Church but ministerially to Presbyters as such not to Bishops as Bishops and that which undeniably clears it up to mee is this That in the New Testament wee find both Apostles some of the 70 Disciples Evangelists and Presbyters equally ordaining Elders or Presbyters but not any one who is once in Scripture stiled a Bishop either conferring orders upon any much lesse eonomine jure as a Bishop And since the Apostles time wee find in point of use and practice Popes Patriarchs Archbishops Metropolitans Cardinalls Abbots in some places who are not Iure Divino nor Bishops properly so called but distinguished from them in degree ordaining Presbyters and Ministers as well as Bishops quatenus Bishops and that never by themselves but all by the Presbyters joint concurrence then present who by the fourth Councell of Carthage the Canon law the very Canons of Trent also and our owne book of Ordination and our Canons ought also to join with them in the Ordination Now all these distinct Orders and Degrees claiming and exercising this power by a Divine Right and many of their Functions being confessed not to be of Divine Right as Popes Patriarchs Archbishops Metropolitans Abbots and Chorall Bishops who yet ordain and these alwaies necessarily calling Presbyters who are clearly of Divine Right to join with them in their Ordination and not doing it alone is an unanswerable proof to me that they all concur in this action in no other right or notion at all but meerly as they are Presbyters in which they all accord and have one and the same authority not in their own capacities wherein they are all discriminated and are not all of Divine but only of humane institution Presbyters quà Presbyters being the properest persons to ordain others of their owne degree and function as Doctors of Divinity law and Physick in the Universities create Doctors of their severall Professions and Bishops consecrate Bishops and Archbishops even as a man begets a man of his own quality and degree and all other creatures generate those of their own kind without the concurrence of any her distinct species paramount them As for the Angel of the Church of Ephesus much insisted on in the Isle of Wight to prove an Episcopacy Iure Divino distinct from Presbytery I never read that this Angell ordained
growth and danger of Prophanenesse His Majesty hath condescended to an Act of Parliament as large as can be drawne against all Prophanations whatsoever of the Lords day with severe punishment for the prophaners of it in any kinde and against all such who shall write or preach against its morality and due observation And likewise to an Act to be framed and agreed upon by both Houses of Parliament for the reforming and regulating both Vniversities and of the Colledges of Westminster Winchester and Eaton the seminaries of Learning and Education of youth to serve and rule in our Church and State By which two Grants if duly executed all impiety and prophanenesse which can endanger our Church and Religion will easily be suppressed for the present and prevented for the future Thirdly Against the danger and revivall of Episcopacy and the appendances thereunto belonging the King hath clearly condescended to these particulars in terminis First to an Act for the abolition of all Archbishops Chancellors Commissaries Deanes and Sub-Deans Deans ard Chapters Arch-deacons Canons Prebendaries c. and all other Episcopall Cathedrall or Collegiate Officers both in England Wales and Ireland and to the disposall of all their Lands and Possessions for such uses as the Houses shall thinke meet So as there is no feare at all of their resurrection to disturb our Church All the question and difference now between the King and Houses is onely concerning the Office and power of Bishops and their Lands and Possessions in which two I finde most Members declare themselves to be unsatisfied especially those who have purchased Bishops Lands who are very zealous in that point for their own Interests For the clearing of these two scruples I shall examine and debate these two particulars First how far the K. hath consented to the Houses Propositions for the abolishing of the office jurisdiction of Bishops in the Church Secondly how far He hath condescended to the sale and disposal of their Lands and Possessions And whether his Concessions in both these be not sufficiently satisfactory in the sense I have stated the question in the beginning of my debate of it For the first of these It is clear that the King in his two last Papers hath abolished and extirpated that Episcopacy and Prelacy which we intended and have so earnestly contested against and contends now for no other but an Apostolicall Bishop which is but the same in all things with an ordinary Minister or Presbyter which Bishop being Apostolicall and of divine Institution we neither may nor can nor ever intended to abolish by our Covenant To make this evident to all mens consciences 1 The King hath yeelded to take away all the power and jurisdiction whatsoever exercised by our Bishops in point of censure or discipline in his former answer and contends for nothing now but their power of Ordination only and that not solely vested in the Bishop but in him and other Presbyters jointly yet so as the Bishop should have a negative Voice in Ordinations But the Houses voting this unsatisfactory because that the Bishops for three years during the continuance of the Presbyterian government should have the chief power of Ordination after those three years the sole power there being no others vested or intrusted with that power after the three years expired so as Bishops might by this means creep in and get up againe by degrees as high as ever Thereupon the King in his finall Answer hereunto though not fully satisfied in point of conscience but that the power of Ordination is principally vested onely in Bishops by Divine Authority hath yet for our satisfaction thus far condescended to us First that for three years next ensuing during the Presbyteriall Government no Bishops shall at all exercise this power of Ordination in the Church Secondly That if he can be satisfied in point of Conscience within that time upon conference with Divines That this power of Ordination so far as to have a Negative voice in it belongs not only unto Apostolical Bishops by a divine Right then he wil fully consent to the utter abolition even of this power of Ordination in the Bishops Thirdly That after the three yeares are expired if the King can neither satisfie his Houses in point of conscience nor they him upon debate That this power of Ordination belongs Iure Divino to Bishops that yet the exercise of that power shall be totally suspended in them till He and both Houses shall agree upon a Government and by Act of Parliament settle a Form of Ordination So as if both Houses never consent that Bishops shall hereafter have a hand or negative voice in Ordination this power of Bishops is perpetuaily suspended and as to the exercise of it perpetually abolished even by this Concession so as it can never be revived again without both Houses concurring assents And by this means Episcopacy is totally extirpated root and branch according to the Covenant which hath been so much pressed in this debate though the words of it have been somewhat mistaken that we therein absolutely covenant to extirpate Episcopacy when as the words are only That we shall endeavour the extirpation of Prelacy that is of Archbishops and Bishops c. And that certainly we have done and in a great measure accomplished so far as to satisfie both the words and intention of the Covenant though a concurrent power of Ordination be left in Bishops which yet is now totally suspended For as we covenant in the same clause to endeavour to root out Popery Superstition Heresie Schisme Prophanenesse and whatsoever shall be found to be contrary to sound Doctrine and the power of Godlinesse in the extirpation of which I am certain we have not proceeded by an hundred degrees so farre as we have actually done in the extirpation of Episcopacy there being no Proposition at all in the Treaty for the extirpation of Heresie Schisme and Errors as there is of Episcopacy and yet the Gentlemen who are so zealous for the Covenant perswade themselves they and we have not violated it in these particulars therefore much less in the point of Prelacy and Bishops since we have left them nothing at all but a meer power of Ordination actually suspended from any future execution but by both Houses assents Fourthly the King by abolishing Archbishops and Deans and Chapters hath also therein actually abolished all Bishops too for the future except those who are already made For by the Laws and custome of the Realm No Bishop can be consecrated but by an Archbishop or some deputation from him in case of sicknesse nor any Bishop made or consecrated unlesse he be first elected by the Dean and Chapter upon a Conge deslier issued out to them to choose one Now there being no Deanes and Chapters left to elect nor Archbishop to consecrate any Bishop for the future there can be no Bishop at all hereafter made in England or Ireland and so the Bishop
any Presbyters eitâ—er quatenus Angel or Bishop nor find I the name of a Bishop in any of St. Iohn's Writings but the title of a Presbyter or Elder very frequent by which himself is stiled And I wonder much the King or his Bishops should now so much insist upon this Angel and assert him to bee a Lord Bishop not an ordinary Minister For first King Iames himself and all the Bishops of Engl. with those learned men imployed by them in the last Translation of the Bible in the very contents prefixed to this Chap. Rev. 2. resolve the Angells of those Churches to be Ministers in these very words What is commanded to be written to the Angels THAT IS THE MINISTERS not Bishop of the Churches of Ephesus Smyrna c. If then the Angels by their joint confessions when these Contents were first composed and prefixed were only the Ministers not Bishops of these Churches and have ever since been constantly admitted confessed and this published to be so even in our authorized Bibles used in all Churches Chappels Families and printed cum privilegio five or six times a yeer without any alteration or disallowance of this Exposition I marvel much how the Bishops now dare inform the King That these Angels certainly were only Bishops but not Ministers diametrally contrary to these authorized Contents of their own or Predecessors affixing with learned King Iames his approbation or how his Majesty when Hee knowes it can beleeve them though they should averr it against His own Fathers and the whole Church of Englands resolution which hath so long received and approved this Translation excluding all others in publick and these Contents thereto prefixed Secondly Admit this Angell of Ephesus to be a Diocesan Bishop distinct from an ordinary Presbyter yet he was but an Apostate who had lost his first love ver 4. And if Timothy as they affirm was sole Bishop of Ephesus he must be the Apostate being at that time living unlesse he resigned his office to some other which is improbable And for our Bishops to father that divine Right of their Prelacy upon an Apostate Angell is no good Divinity and lesse Policy at this instant And this their rotten foundation upon an Apostate may probably be the ground why so many Prelates in this and former ages have turned Apostates after they were created Bishops Thirdly if those Angells in the Revelation were really Lord Bishops then certainly the Elders therein mentioned can bee no other then Presbyters not Bishops as the Prelates themselves will grant And if so then verily the Presbyter is the supream of the two both in point of Dignity Ministry and precedency which is very observable For first I find the 24 Elders there mentioned sitting upon twenty four seats round about Christs Throne and nearest to it Rev. 4. 4. c. 11. 16. but the Angells standing not sitting round about it and them without any seats at all provided for them as inferiour attendants Rev. 5. 11. c. 7. 11. Secondly I find these Elders not onely sitting on seats next Christs throne but likewise cloathed with white rayment and having on their heads Crownes of Gold the embleme of supream Authority power and honor Rev. 4. 4. 10. whereas the Angells had neither white rayment nor Crowns so it seems Bishops had no lawn sleeves nor Rochets nor Miters then though they have since usurped and robd the Presbyters of them Thirdly These Elders not the Angells are there alwayes introduced worshipping and falling downe before Christs Throne holding harps and golden viols in their hands full of odors representing the prayers of the Saints and singing the new song to him as the principal Officers and Ministers of Christ when as the Angells standing by act or speak little in these kinds like our late dumb unpreaching and rare-praying Prelates Fourthly the 24 Elders not the Angells sing this new Song of praise to Christ 1 Rev. 5. 9. 10. Worthy art thou to take the booke c. And hast made us Kings and Priests not Angells or Bishops to God the Father and we not the Angels that REIGN on the Earth therefore in all these respects if the Angells in the Apocalypse bee Bishops as our Prelates dreame the Elders must of necessity jure divino bee their Superiors and Lords paramount in point of dignity honour Soveraignty Ministry and they inferiour in jurisdiction and power unto Presbyters not superior as they would really make themselves When his Majesty shall be informed of these and many other particulars of this kinde I doubt not but his conscience will be so much satisfied as wholly to forgoe and lay aside his pretended Apostolicall Bishops both in point of function and ordination too as being the same with Presbyters And since in his last paper but one he hath professed to retain no other Bishops but such as are Apostolicall he must presently quit all those about him and their possessions too since neither of them are Apostolicall the Apostolicall Bishops being many alwaies over one Church and Congregation not one over many Churches or an whole Diocesse as ours are and having no Palaces Mannors Lands and Possessions as I shall prove in the next particular which comes to be now debated having fully cleared this to be satisfactory For the second question concerning the sale of Bishops lands how far the King hath condescended to it And whether the Kings answers to the first branch of that Proposition bee satisfactory in the premised sense I confesse I find this the grand and most swaying Argument of all others used by those who differ from me in the Treaty as not satisfactory because the King absolutely refuseth to agree to the sale of Bishops Lands for the satisfaction of those publike debts for which they are engaged by both Houses whereby purchasers and lenders upon that assurance will be not only defrauded but cheated of their debts and purchases many of them quite undone and ruined and the honor and publick faith of both Houses for ever forfeited and laid in the dust And indeed this is a very sensible argument especially to such Members who have either purchased Bishops lands or advanced moneys upon their security very fit to bee fully answered which I shall endeavour to doe I hope to their full satisfaction and content I confesse it to be most just and equall that all who have purchased Bishops Lands or advanced moneys to the State upon them should receive ful satisfaction and be no losers by it but rather gainers And I could have as heartily desired as any Member in this House that the King in this particular of Bishops lands had given us plenary satisfaction the rather because I was imployed by the Houses as one of the Contractors though without my seeking and to my prejudice by neglecting my calling and receiving as yet not one farthing salary for it though I have spent and lost some hundred of pounds in and by that imployment and had he
more worldly businesse then spirituall devotion and more pomp and boast outward then holinesse inward Religio peperit divilias filia devoravit matrem which our Bishops and Translators of the Bible likewise mention in their Epistle prefixt to it And Ockam saith and others observe That whereas all or most of the Bishops of Rome before that time were Martyrs scarce one of them proved a Martyr afterwards but in stead of being Martyrs fell a persecuting and making Martyrs And if this voyce of the Angel perchance a Bishop since our Prelates will needs have the Angels in Rev. 2. to bee Bishops weretrue and subsequent experience hath found it so That Bishops and Church-mens Temporall Lands Possessions and endowments are no other but poyson to the Church and his Majesty be convinced of the truth of this story I hope he will be satisfied in point of Conscience that it is no sacriledge but wholesome Physick to take away this poyson from the Church which hath so much infected corrupted and would in fine destroy it and the Bishops too and eat out all their piety and devotion Thirdly most Bishops long after Constantines time had very small or no Revenues Lands and no other Palaces to reside in but poor little Cottages it being all mens opinion in those dayes That stately Palaces belonged onely unto Emperours and Princes and Cottages and Churches unto Bishops The fourth councell of Carthage about the yeare of our Lord 390. decreed That the Bishop should have HOSPITIOLVM aliâ—tle COTTAGE or Hospitall to dwell in neer the Church not a Palace And in the Excerptions of Egbert Archbishop of York An. 750. I find the same Canon renewed among us as the Canon Law of this Realm That Bishops and Presbyters should have Hospitiolum a small Cottageneer the Church to live in not a stately Mansion So as our Bishops in those dayes had no great Palaces Mannours Temporalities and their very Cathedrals were built onely with Wattle or a few boards pieced together and covered but with reed Stone-Churches covered over with Slat or Lead being not in use among the Britians Scots or Irish for many hundred yeers as Bishop Vsher himselfe asserts out of Beda Eccles. hist. l. 3. c. 4. 5. and Bernard in the life of Malachy And if their Cathedrall Churches were so meane their Palaces certainly were but answerable poor little Cottages and their revenues little or nothingâ— but the peoples Almes Saint Augustine that renowned Bishop of Hippo had but a meane house to live in his Dishes and Trenchers were all Earthen Stone or Wood his Table furnished with Pulse Hearbs and a little Pottage onely for the most part seldome with Flesh he had no Plate but five or fix Spoones and when he dyed he made no Will at all because the poore Saint of Christ had nothing to bequeath as Possidonius records in his life Saint Chrysostome the Great famous Patriarch of Constantinople â— and Gregory Nazianzen his Predecessor had no stately Palace Furniture Houshold stuffe traine of Attendance nor any goods or Revenues at all nor Iohn the Almoner that succeeded them nor that famous Spiridion who kept a stocke as a mean Shepherd though a Bishop and eminent Saint Hierom though no Bishop yet the learnedst and famous Scholar in his age or any after and of great repute writes of himselfe that he lived in paâ—peri Tuguriolo in a poore little cottage having scarce clothes to cover his nakednesse So Saint Ambrose Bishop of Millaine was very poore brake the Chalices in pieces to relieve poore people and used this Maxime Gloriosa in Sacerdotibus Domini paupertas And if these great Lights Bishops and Fathers of the Church in whose Names our Prelates so much triumph were so poor that they had no Palaces Houses and temporall Possessions as our Arch-bishops and Bishops had I can yet discerne no matter of concience in it why our Bishops should have more then these Pillars of the Church either enjoyed or desired they being content with food and raiment as Paul was and desiring no more It is storied of our ancientest Bishops that I read of present at the Councell of Ariminum Anno Domini 379. That they were so poore that inopia preprii publico ust sunt they were maintained at the Emperours publique cost for want of private maintainance of their owne yet they were eminent both for Piety and Learning And if their Predecessors were anciently so poore it is no point of conscience to deprive our Lord Bishops not onely of their Lands but Function too for the peace and settlement of three Kingdoms now at the point of ruine When the Church of Christ was miserably rent and torn in Affrica by the schismaticall Donatists who would have no Prelates and Bishops that eminent Bishop of Hippo Saint Augustine and almost three hundred Affrican Bishops more were content to lay downe their Bishopricks wholly for that Churches peace and thereupon Saint Augustine uttered these memorable words which I heartily with all our Bishops would consider and then they would lay downe both their Lands and Bishopricks too for our three Kingdomes present peace An vero Redemptor noster c What verily did our Redeemer descend from Heaven it selfe into humane members that we should bee made his members and doe we feare to descend out of our Chaires left â—is very members should be torn in pieces with cruell divisions We are ordained Bishops for Christian people that therefore which profitith Christian people to Christian peace that let us doe concerning our Episcopacy What I am I am for thee if it profit thee I am not if it hurt thee If we be profitable Servants why do we envy the eternall gains of our Lord for our temporall sublimities Our Episcopall dignity will be more fruitfull to us if being laid downe it shall more unite the flock of Christ then if it shall desperse it being retained If when I shall retaine my Bishoprick I shall disperse the flock of Christ how is this dammage of the flocke the honour of the Pastour for with what forehead shall we hope for the honour promised in the world to come from Christ if our honour in this world hinder Christian Vnity They had no Bishops Lands then to part with but yet for Peace and Unity sake they were thus content to part with their very Bishopdoms themselves And will not the King then in point of conscience part with the Bishops Lands for our present Peace when he shall know or be truly informed of all this Fourthly for the Judgement of Divines I could produce divers against the great Possessions of Bishops in all ages as making them secular proud vitious lasie which I have formerly published at large but I shall onely at present informe you that our famous Iohn Wickliffe professedly maintained That the King and temporal Lords grievously sinned in endowing the Bishops with large temperall possessions
to the peace and settlement of the Kingdome is this That the King do give his Royall assent to such Act or Acts for the raising of moneys for the Parliament satisfying of the publique Debts and Damages of the Kingdome and other publique uses as shal hereafter be agreed on by both Houses of Parliament And if the King do not give his assent thereto then it being done by both Houses the same shall be as valid to all intents and purposes as if the Royall assent had been given thereunto To this Proposition the King hath condescended so as those Acts be passed within two years after the Treaty ended which the Houses have now voted to be satisfactory This Proposition secures all moneys lent upon the publike faith all arrears due to Officers souldiers yea all moneys advanced by any who have purchas'd Bishops lands for their losses by reversions after 99 years or any present rents to be reserved to the Crowne for the use of the Church with which those Members who have purchased such lands or advanced moneys upon them declare themselves most unsatisfied all those who have sustained publique losses Yea if the King denies his royall assent thereto it enables both Houses to make a valid Act of Parliament without the King in this case and in case of the Militia likewise which was never challenged by nor granted to both Houses in any Kings Reign before takes away the Kings Negative voice as to these particulars which those who conclude the Kings answers unsatisfatory have so much contended for yet now stand in their own light in not accepting of these Concessions as satisfactory and striking at the Negative voice The next Concession of the Kings for the settlement of the State is the taking away of the Court of Words and of all Wardships and Tenures in Capite or by Knights service which draw on Wardships Primer seisures liveries and such like incombrances to the intolerable vassalage and prejudice of the Nobility and Gentry of England and great landed persons and that only upon giving the King and his successors one hundred thousand pounds yearly for compensations being one principall part of his Royall Revenue This Concession is of so vast consequence to the Kingdome to enfranchise the Subjects from the Norman yoak of bondage as some stile VVardships and Tenures in Capite though others deem them more ancient then William the Conqueror that our Ancestors never enjoyed the like It exempts mens heits under age and their estates from being made a prey for hungry Courtiers or over-reaching Committees of them their estates It exempts them from being married to any against their free consents without any single or double forfeiture of the values of their marriages to which they were formerly liable from marriages to persons of small or no or broken fortunes and different dispositions which have ruined many families from many chargeable suits expences excessive fees gratuities to Escheators Feodaries all sorts of griping Officers in the Court of Wards and from vast expences and extraordinary vexation in finding and traversing Offices suing out Liveries c. and many suits and questions arising thereupon which have undone too many And it deprives the King of such an over-awing Prerogative over the persons and Eâ—tates of the Nobility and Gentry which usually fell into his custody after every Tenants decease as will very much weaken his interest in and their over much dependence on him and make them lesse subject to engage for or with him against the Parliaments or Kingdomes common interest The next Proposition relating to the Kingdomes safety and settlement not so immediately and directly as any of the former is that which concernes Delinquents in which alone as to the State the Kings answers are pretended unsatisfactory not in all but only in some particulars of no extraordinary concernment in my apprehension though so much insisted on by many as to vote all the Treaty unsatisfactory In opening the state of the Kings Answers to this proposition I shall doe these 3. things First I shall shew how far the King and you are both agreed 2dly In what particulars you really or seemingly differ 3dly I shall examine whether these differences herein be of any such moment as to induce the House to vote the answers to this and the other Propositions upon the whole Treaty unsatisfactory and so reject and lose whatever the King hath granted in the rest because he hath not satisfied our demands in this one and two others concerning the Church For the first both Houses by their Votes have thought this Proposition touching Delinquents so needless to beinfisted on in every punctilio for the publick settlement which will certainly more obstruct then promote it merey moderation being the nearest way to peace and union that you have reduced since the Treaty the persons excepted in the first qualification both from life composition from 37 to 7 only six of those are beyond the Seas quite out of your power the 7th aged scarce worth your Execution The King consents that they should be banished during the pleasure of both Houses which is a civill death banishment being next to death the severest punishment and to some men more grievous then present Execution But if that will not satisfie then he leaves them wholly to your justice to proceed against them if you please according to Law and promiseth not to interpose nor pardon any of them if legally condemned only he adds ex abundanti that he cannot in justice or honor assent to any Act to take away their lives by a meer Legislative Power ex post facto if they have done nothing that was formerly capital by the known Laws of the Land by which Hee leaves them to be tryed This Answer many Gentlemen who have spoken have coucluded very unsatisfactory and made many large descants on it because they did not rightly weigh nor understand it when as in truth it Answers the very Proposition in terminis as I shall clearly manifest to all who understand what Law is First it is apparent that one of the first quarrels and cause of taking up Arms on our parts was to bring Delinquents to condign punishent according to the Laws and Statutes of the Realm as you have declared to the Kingdom in many printed Declarations and in your Petitions to the King you alwayes desired him to leave Delinquents to the course of Iustice not to cut them off by a meer Legislative Power when as you could not doe it by any known Law Secondly you have professed to all the World and to the King and Delinquents themselves that you have taken up Armes to defend and preserve the Ancient fundamentall Laws and Liberties of the Kingdom and to oppose the introduction of any Arbitrary and Tyrannicall Power Yea your selves and the Army likewise have declared against all extraordinary proceedings and tryals in the Lords House to
really done it I presume few Members of this House now of a different opinion would have voted the Kings Answers to the whole Treaty unsatisfactory But to take them as they are First the King hath so far condescended to their sale and disposall made or to be made as that the purchasers shall by Act of Parliament enjoy a lease of them not from the Bishops themselves but from the Crown for 99. yeares space reserving only the reversions afterward to the Crowne and that for the use of the Church in generall terms Secondly The King will bee content with the reservation only of the old or some other moderate rent to Him and His Heirs to bee imployed only for the Churches use and benefit Thirdly That for the absolute sale or alienation of them he cannot in point of conscience consent unto it being Sacriledge and an unlawfull Act in the opinion of all Divines as well in forraigne Reformed Churches as Domestick This I remember and conceive is the sum of his finall answer to this Proposition To examine these particulars a little in the generall and then by parts First I must make bold to inform you in the generall That the King and His Predecessors Kings of this Realm were the Originall founders of all our Bishoprieks and patrons of them That all their Lands Rent and Revenues whatsoever originally proceeded from the Crown and Kings of England of whom they are bolden and that in times of vacancy the King enjoyes the profits of their temperalities as a part of His Royall Revenue and receives both tenths and first-fruits out of them upon every death or translation of the Bishops And therefore there is very great reason and Justice too they should be still held of the Crowne and not totally translated out of it and that the King and His successors should receive some reasonable Revenue or compensation out of them parting with such an interest in recompence for them Secondly That in the severall Treaties with the King Februar 1. 1641. and Iuly 11. 1646. All the Lands Possessions Rents and Reversions both of Archbishops and Bishops and likewise of Deans and Chapters and other Officers of Cathedrall and Collegiate Churches were by Act of Parliament to be settled in the very reall and actuall possession of the King His Heirs and Successors for ever to their own proper use except only their Impropriations Advowsons Tythes and Pensions which are not now to bee sold. And that the Ordinances for setling of Bishops Lands Rents and Possessions in Feâ—ffees and engaging and selling them for the monies lent upon the Publick saith and doubled to raise 200000. l. for disbanding of the Scotch Army passed on the Houses till October and November 1646 till which time there was no thought nor intent at all to sell or alienate them from the Crowne If then the King in two or three former Treaties by both Houses full and free consent and a Bill passed by them for that purpose was to enjoy to himselfe his Heirs and Successors all the demesne Lands Mannors Possessions Reversions Rents Inheritances and Revenues of Archbishops and Bishops and likewise of Deans and Chapters Prebends and the like it seems to me very just reasonable that he should demand and enjoy the Reversions of them after ninety nine years and such a moderate Rent as he and both Houses shall agree on And that this Answer of the Kings wherein he demands so little now only for the Churches use and benefit not his own should be fully satisfactory because we were very well content in former Treaties He and his Heirs should enjoy the whole only to their own use Thirdly That near one moiety of the Archbishops and Bishops possessions and revenues consists in Impropriations Tythes Pensions and the like which the King is content wholly to part with for the encrease of Ministers means and the benefit of the Church without any Reservation or Recompence And with all Deans and Chapters Lands and Revenues to boot Therefore it should be unsatisfactory or unreasonable in no mans judgement for the King to reserve some interest in the Reversions and Rents only of their demesne lands Fourthly The King demands the Riversions of the Lands after ninety nine years and some present moderate Rent not for the use and support of the Bishops and to keep a root for them to grow up again in our Church as hath been mistaken by some Archbishops and Bishops too being extirpated root and branch by the Kings former Answers as I have manifested but only for the use of the Church in such manner as the King and we shall agree to settle them who shall take care that no Bishop shall be a sharer in them all being to bee setled in the CROWNE alone and nothing in Reversion or Possession to in or upon the Bishops Fifthly The King consents that the Purchasers of Bishops Lands shall by Act of Parliament have a Lease of them for ninety nine years reserving the Reversion only after that terme which I conceive is no ill but a very good bargain for the Purchasers such a Lease by Act of Parliament being far better then the whole Inheritance by a bare Ordinance of both Houses which for ought I know if not confirmed by a subsequent Act of Parliament will prove little better then a Tenancy at Will or a Lease so long only as this Parliament continues Ordinances of both Houses only without the Kings Royall assent thereto being a new device of this present Parliament to supply some present necessities for our necessary defence and preservation during the Kings absence and hostility never known nor used in any former Parliaments what ever hath been conceived to the contrary Therefore this offer of the K. is no prejudice at all but a great advantage to the Purchasers wherewith they should rest fully satisfied But admit it be any losse at all to them and not rather a gain as things now stand in our tottering condition yet it is only of the reversion of these lands after ninety nine years worth not above one quarter or halfe a years purchase at the utmost which considering the low values at which Bishops lands are sold and the cheap rate now that most purchasers gave for Bills of Publick faith with which they bought them they may be well content to lose to secure their purchases for ninety nine years in these tumultuous and fluctuating times when some wise men who have made such purchases would very gladly give two or three years purchase if not more at the assurance Office to any who will ensure their estates in Bishops lands for so long a term and think they had a good bargain too at leastwise far better then the Bishops in case they should revive again as some fear who must be kept starving for 99 years in expectation of a dry Reversion All which considered the Kings Answers touching such Reversions I humbly conceive will be very
satisfactory to the purchasers of Bishops lands themselves who are most displeased with it As to that which hath been objected that some have purchased Reversions of Bishops Lands after 99 years in being who must absolutely lose their purchase money after this rate which is neither just nor honourable for the Parliament I answer that this is but the case of three or foure only that their purchases are of no considerable value nor bought fingly by themselves but jointly with Lands or Rents in possession of good value in which they had the cheaper purchase to take off the Reversion after so long a term which losse in the Reversion they may contentedly undergoe to purchase their owne and the Kingdomes peace and enjoy what they have purchased with these Reversions in possession without trouble or eviction by Act of Parliament for 99 years space or receive other satisfaction from the King and Parliament to their contentment in such manner as I shall presently inform you Sixtly To that concerning the present Rents which the Kingdemands out of Bishops Lands which sticks most with Purchasers many of them having purchased nothing but Rents and others more rents then Lands in possession which Rents must all be lost if they must pay their old rents over to the King to their undoing which would be both unjust unconscionable and dishonourable to the Houses upon whose assurance and engagement to enjoy their bargains they were induced both to lend money on and to purchase these Lands afterwards and would be no better then plain cheating and render them odious to all the world as some have objected I will not answer it with Caveat emptor but desire them to observe that the King in his answer doth not peremptorily require the Bishops old rents during the 99. years but only disjunctively either the old Rent or some other moderate Rent to be agreed on and if only a moderate proportion of the old rent be paid to the King the Purchaser is sure to enjoy the residue during the 99 yeares and so his purchase money not totally lost as is objected Besides the King will not reserve these Rents to the use of himselfe or the Crown but only to the Church and maintenance of the Ministers in such manner as He and his Houses shall agree in the Bill for setling these Lands in the way propounded by him Which offer opens this just and honourable way for the Houses to give all Purchasers of Bishops Land and Rents full satisfaction both for the losse of their reversions after 99 years and for the present rents which shall be reserved to the Crown out of Bishops Lands to the Churches use which I beleeve the King and Houses will readily consent to and that is to settle by Act of Parliament so much of the Dean and Chapters demein Lands and Rents upon the Purchasers as the losse of their Reversions after 99. years and present Rent to the Crowne shall amount unto upon a just computation By which means the Purchasers by way of Exchange of Deans and Chapters Lands and Rents for their Bishops shall have such full and satisfactory content even in kind as will cleare the Honour justice and Reputation of the Houses fair dealings in this particular throughout al the world and give the Ministers full satisfaction likewise for the augmentation of whose livings and maintenance the Deanes and Chapters Lands and Rents are designed by settling the reversion and Rents reserved to the Crown out of the Bishops Lands for the Churches use upon those who should have enjoyed the Deans and Chapters Lands thus settled on the Purchasers by exchange which being of equall value can be no losse nor prejudice to any This is such a visible and reall satisfaction to all purchasers as none of them can justly open their mouths against being both for their owne security and advantage and the Kingdomes settlement But if any of them dislike this reall satisfaction which the King no doubt will yeeld to there is an other means provided by this very Treaty for their satisfaction and that is by ready money for what ever they shall lose by Bishops Lands in possession or reversion by this Reservation to the Crown which I am sure they never will nor can refuse in Justice or equity they having the Bishops Lands conveyed to them only by way of Morgage or security for Moneys lent upon the publike faith And the houses by the 12th Article of this Treaty have time within two years space by Act or Acts to raise any summes of money for the payment of the publique debts of the Kingdome whereof the moneys lent upon Bishops Lands and the publique faith are a principall part and the same Justice of the Houses which hath already provided by severall Ordinances a sufficient recompence and satisfaction for purchasers of Bishops Lands in cases of eviction or of emergent charges and incumbrances discovered after the purchases made may be a sufficient assurance to them of the Houses Justice that they will give them as good or better satisfaction by one of these two wayes I have here propounded for any thing they shall part with to the King or Church for the settlement of the Kingdomes peace Seventhly it hath beene the solemn Protestation and Declaration of both Houses of Parliament in all their Remonstrances to the King Kingdome and forraigne States that they have taken up defensive Armes against the Kings Party onely for the maintenance of Religion Lawes Liberties c. and to bring Delinquents to condigne punishment Now Bishops Lands and Rents I am certaine are neither our Religion Lawers nor Liberties and I thinke they are no Delinquents though most Bishops are And shall we now after seven yeares Warres and sixty dayes Treaty make Bishops Lands which for five yeares time or more of our Warres were never thought of the sole or principall cause at least of our present breach with the King and the onely ground of a new Warre God forbid will not the world then justly censure us for notoriouÌ„s hypocrites and impostors pretendâ—ng one thing and intending another will they not then say that Bishops Palaces and Lands were the onely Religion and Liberty we have fought for the onely Delinquents we have brought to publick Justice and execution that we would never have suppressed Archbishops and Bishops nor entred into a solemne League and Covenant with bands listed up to heaven to endeavour to extirpate them as Antichristian but onely to gaine and retaine all their Lands and Revenues and never condemned their Functions but onely to seize on their Possessions And that we must now maintaine an Army upon their exhausted Purses and Estates only to defend these Parchasers Titles to the Bishops Inheritances If so for shame let us never break off this Treaty nor ruine two or three Kingdomes upon such an absurd dissatisfaction as this And if our Parchasers of Bishops Lands shall still refuse to rest satisfied with that twofold
recompence I have formerly mentioned and keep up an Army to maintaine their Purchases rather then yeeld to any reason I shall humbly move that not the whole Kingdome but themselves may defray the Armies Taxes and Quarters and then I am certaine they will have a dearer bargaine then what the King or I have proposed for their satisfaction And the better to perswade them to embrace this compensation I have onely this more to offer both to them and you That if you break off with the King upon this point or close with the Army they are most certaine to lose all for a bare Ordinance of both Houses in no legall Title nor good security aganst King or Bishops without the Kings concurrence and Royall assent unto it and valid no longer then maintained by the Sword the worst and most hazardous Title of all others which will quickly cost the Purchasers and Kingdome treble the value of all the Bishops Revenues and if they close with the Army to break the Treaty they tell them in direct termes in print in The Case of the Army truly stated presented to the Generall by the Agitators of the Army at Hampstead October 15. 1647. pag. 16. That whereas the times were wholly corrupt when persons were appointed to make sale of Bishops Lands and whereas Parliament-men Committee-men and Kinâ—folks were the onely buyers and much is sold and yet it 's presended that little or no money is received And whereas Lords Parliament-men and some other rich men have vast summes of Arrears allowed them in their Purchase and all their moneys lent to the State paid them while others are left in necessity to whom the State is much indebted and so present Money that might be for the equall advantage of all is not brought into the publike Treasury by those sales It s therefore to bea insisted on that the sale of Bishops Lands bee reviewed and that they may be sold to their worth and for present Moneys for the publike use and that the sale of all such be recalled as have not been sold to their worth or for present money This particular among others they professe they have entred into a solemne engagement to prosecute and are now marched up to London accordingly to pursue it as their late Remonstrance and Declaration intimates and themselves professe by word of mouth which I desire the Members who have purchased Bishops Lands who are generally most unsatisfied with the Kings answers especially in this particular seriously to consider and then to make their Election Whether they will now close with the Kings Concessions and what I have here propounded for satisfaction of their Reversions after 99. years and present Rents they may chance to part with and so secure their purchases for this terme by Act of Parliament and have full compensation for what they part with either in ready money or Deans and Chapters Lands and Rents and so be no losers but great gainers by the bargaine or else break with the King to please the Army and so be certaine to lose all between them not onely once but twice over for the Agitators in the Army tell them plainely That all their Purchases shall be reviewed and if they have purchased them to an under rate or not for ready Money which not one of them hath done but by Tickets of their owne or bought at very low values of others which 't is like they will also examine that then their sales shall be absolutely recalled and sold to others at full values for ready money and so all is lost in good earnest or else they must re-purchase them for ready moneys at higher values without any assurance from the King by Act of Parliament and so lose them againe the second time if ever He or his Prelaticall party should prevaile and yet be enforced to answer and restore all the meane Profits they have taken to boot A very hard chapter and bargain to digest if they advisedly consider it which by accepting the Kings offer is most certainly prevented Who perchance in shore time upon second thoughts and conference with learned men for the satisfaction of his conscience in the point of sacriledge if he should consent to the totall alienation of these Lands from the Church may come up fully to our desires and part with the very inheritance to the purchasers as amply aâ— they have purchased it rather then leave his owne and the Kingdomes interest wholly unsettled And for my part I make little question that had the Prelates and Clergy-men with the King at the Isle of Wight dealt candidly and cleerly with him in this particular of the sale of Bishops Lands that might have easily satisfied his conscience in this very thing as well as in others from these grounds and matters of fact which I shall but point at to satisfie others who perchance are scrupulous herein even in point of conscience as well as the King First the King in his last Paper 〈◊〉 in expresse terms protesseth That he hath abalished all but the Apostolicall Bishops invested with a Negative Vayâ—e or Power in point of Ordination And if so then I am certain he hath likewise abolished all Bishops Palaces Lordships Revenues Rents and Possessions it being most certaine that neither the Apoâ—ls themselves not any Apostolicall Bishops of their Ordination in their dayes or for above 300. yeers after had any Lands or Possessions annexed to their Apostleships or Bishopricks but lived meerely upon the aâ—ms and voluntary contributions of the people as Christ himselfe Paul and the other Apostles did as all Historiant accord If then his Majesty will retain none but Apostolicall Bishops he must necessarily take away their temporall Lands and possessions annexed to then Bishopricks to make them such if he hath not already done is by his finall Answer to this proposition as I conceive he hath Secondly it is generally agreed by Historians that Constantine the great our owne Country-man borne and first Crowned Emperour at York to the eternall honour of our Island he being the first Christian Emperour and greatest advancer of the Christian Religion and destroyer of Paganism was the first who endowed the Church and Bishops with any temporall Possessions about 350. yeers after Christ though his pretended donation to the Pope be but a meere fable as Doctor Crakenthorp and others have manifested at large Now Ioannes Parisiensis Nauclerus Polychronicon our English Apostle Iohn Wickliffe our noble Martyr the Lord Cobham Iohn Frith a Martyr learned Bishop Iewell and others out of them record That when Constantine endowed the Church and Bishops with temporall Lands and possessions the voice of an Angel was heard in the Ayre crying out Hodie venenum insunditur in Ecclesiam this day is poyson powred into the whele Church of God And from that time say they because of the great Riches the Church had she was made the more secular and had
which hath reversed Christs Ordinances and procreated Antichrist and that they were bound in conscience to take away their Lands and Temporalties from them which they had abused to Pride Ambition Discord c. His Disciples or noble Martyrs William Swinderby Iohn Purvey Sir Iohn Oldcastle and after them Pierce Plowman Geffrey Chaucer Mr. Tyndall Doctor Barnes Iohn Firth Sir Iohn Borthwike a Martyr the Author of a Supplication to King Henry the eight the Author of the Image of a very Christian Bishop and of a Counterfeit Bishop William VVraughton in his Hunting of the Remish Fox Mr. Fish in his Supplication of Beggers Henry Stalbridge in his exhortatory Epistle and others are of the like judgement and Roderick Mors in his Supplication to the Parliament in Henry the eight his Reigne to omit Penry and others in Queene Elizabeths Reigne And why there should be more Sacriledge in taking away Bishops Lands in England then in Scotland or Abbey Lands heretofore from Abbeys and Priories I cannot yet discerne All which considered I hope his Majesties conscience may and will be rectified in this particular before the Treaty be absolutely confirmed by Acts of Parliament so as this of Bishops Lands shall make no breach between us In clearing which I have beene the more prolix because it is most insisted on of any thing in point of dis-satisfaction both by the King and us As for all our other Propositions relating to the Peace and settlement of the Church the King hath fully assented to them interminis as namely to the Bill for the better advancement of the preaching of Gods word and setting godly Ministers in all parts of the Kingdome To a Bill against Pluralities and Non residencie To an Act of Confirmation for the calling and setling of the Assembly of Divines To an Act for the confirmation of the Directory and abolishing the Booke of Common-Prayer throughout the Kingdome and in the Kings owne Chappell too yeelded unto in the Kings finall answer though formerly stuck upon to an Act for taking the covenant throughout the Realme only the King sticks at it as yet unsatisfied in conscience as to the taking of it himselfe without some qualifications in it which a Committee were appointed to consider of but have not yet reported ought to the House Besides he hath approved the lesser Catechism as far as you desired who rest satisfied with his answer concerning it And as for the Presbyteriall Government he hath absolutely consented to settle it for three years But it hath been much insisted on by many That the Kings Grant of the Presbyterian Government is no wayesâ— satisfactory because only for three years And therefore they will break off the Treaty for this reason and vote the Kings answers upon the whole unsatisfactory because too short in this particular To which I answer That the King in terminis hath granted as much as we desired We desired its settlement but for three years and many who most pretend dissatisfaction in this point now did and do indeed desire no setled Government at all no not for three years space Therefore if there be any default in this it was in the Houses Proposition only not in the Kings answer who was not obliged to grant us in this particular or any other more than we desired Secondly after the three years expiration the Presbyterian Government must remain till a new be agreed upon by consent of the King and both Houses upon conference and advice with the Assembly of Divines or that further established if found best and most sutable in the interim So as now upon all the branches of this Treaty and the Kings answers thereunto I conceive the Kings answers to be compleatly satisfactory in that sense I have stated and debated the question as well for the safety and settlement of our Church and Religion as Kingdom though the Kings Answers come not up fully to the Propositions in some two or three particulars only It is storied of Alexander the Great that one demanding of him to give him a penny he returned him this answer That it was too little for Alexander to give Whereupon he demanded a Talent of him whereunto he replyed It was too much for a begger to receive We have demanded of the King in our own and the Kingdomes behalf in former Treaties but a penny in comparison and then the King refused to grant it though we would have been heartily contented with it or lesse But now we have in this Treatty demanded a Talent and the King hath not thought it overmuch for him to grant or for us to receive and if we shall now ungratefully reject it we know not why our selves unlesse it be that God hath infatuated and designed us unto speedy ruine for our sins I must needs take up our Saviours Lamentation over dying Ierussalem in relation unto England O that thou hadst known in this thy day the things that belong unto thy Peace but now they are hid from thine eyes And I pray God they be not so far hid that we shall never live to see any peace or settlement at all in Church or State if we embrace not those Concessions now the best the largest the honourablest the safest and most beneficiall that ever was tendred to any People by a King and if we now reject we shall never have the moity of them granted us again no though we soek them carefully with tears as Esau did his last blessing when he had overslipt his time but a very little For mine own part I value no mens bare opinions in this debate but their reasons which inforce them and if I have not quite lost my reason and senses too I have not heard one solid reason given by any Gentleman that differs from me why the Kings Concessions upon the whole Treaty should be so unsatisfactory as utterly to reject them and proceed no further Most of the reasons to the contrary have been either cleer mistakes both of the question and Kings Answers or our Propositions and mistakes are no reasons but irrationall or a fear in some Purchasers of Bishops Lands of an ill bargain which I presume I have fully satisfied or that which is to me the most unreasonable though many Gentlemens chief and only reason the Armies discontent and dissatisfaction in case we vote it satisfactory to which I shall give this Answer That though I honour the Army for their good services heretofore in the Field and Wars and should as readily gratifie all their just desires as Souldiers as any man yet I must with just disdain and censure look upon their Magisteriall encroachments upon our Councels and prescriptions to us what to vote in our debates or else they will be incensed as the highest violation to the Freedom â— Honour and Priviledges of Parliament not to be Presidented in former times nor now to be endured We all sit here freely to speak our own Mindes