Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	bishop_n	ordination_n	presbyter_n	9,874	5	10.5221	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A52048	The power of the civil magistrate in matters of religion vindicated the extent of his power determined in a sermon preached before the first Parliament on a monthly fast day / by ... Mr. Stephen Marshall ... / published by G. Firmin ... with notes upon the sermon.	Marshall, Stephen, 1594?-1655.; Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1657 (1657)	Wing M769; ESTC R31209	38,128	52

no words about that the Magistracy hath sufficiently declared against that The Bishops before allowed the Ministers power to suspend from the Lords Supper which is Excommunicatio minor in the esteem of many That the Bishop would Monopolize the power of Excommunication as if Presbyters might not doe such an Act is more then any Bishop dare undertake to prove Hierom could tell us in his time when Corruptions had overgrown the Church Excepting Ordination what doth a Bishop that a Presbyter doth not It seems then Presbyters did excommunicate I thought to have added something more but reading of Anselm the Archbishop of Canterbury upon the first Chap. of Titus he giveth such strong grounds to convince me that such Bishops were never of Divine Institution that I trouble my selfe no further For the other two if any suppose the Congregationall Government not to be Presbyterial they mistake It should be so I am sure or else there must be no government at all to find government where there are not Governors and governed will be very hard but who are governed if the people be Governors Let learned Mr. Norton one of the strongest Congregational Divines be heard he speaks to the purpose I appeal to any competently judicious and sober-minded man if the denial of Rule in the Presbytery of a decisive voice in the Synod and of the power of the Magistrate in matters of Religion doth not in this point translate the Papal power unto the Brotherhood of every Congregation thou that abhorrest Episcopacy dost thou commit Popery Alas alas is there no medium between Boniface and Morellius between Papacy and Anarchy if there be a mystery of iniquity in the one is there not an university of iniquity in the other The Historians indignation that the East was overcome by a drunken Commander with a drunken Army is now become a matter of astonishment when so drunken a Tenet in an Age of such learning piety action suffering and successe should threaten the hopes of so glorious a reformation come unto the very birth By this you may see the judgement of this solid Divine and his fears and what sober man doth not fear the like The businesse then is not whether the government be Presbyterial we all agree in that but whether Classical c. That which troubleth us here is that the Churches mentioned in the Scripture were in Cities and populous places where there were many Elders and so there is no question about them but how they carried on their government in small Villages we read not of any in such places to my remembrance such as ours are we have no example Yet let us see how much we differ as now we stand the Congregational Divines though they deny a Pastour to have Authoritative power over any Church but his own yet in matters of weight and so in Excommunication they judge that a Council of Elders ought to be called which they look upon as an Ordinance of God thus in N. E. one Church going about to excommunicate a person a neighbour-Minister sent word he conceived the Church ought not to doe it some of the Church came to him to know his reasons he bad them call a Council and in the Council he would give his reasons but not else the Church would not hearken to him but cast the person out This bred division Thus most of the miscarriages have come from this when people have been head-strong and would not call Councils But now there the most learned wise and solid Divines doe call for Councils in all weighty acts I see here amongst us our Congregational Brethren doe the like The case is judged and determined by the Council but it is executed by the Officer of the Congregation Let us keep close to this and many miscarriages will be prevented Come to the Classical government though these Divines suppose they have Authoritative power over other Churches yet this I suppose look where the fact is committed there the case is to be heard This was the old practice when the Classis have determined what ought to be done as suppose a person is to be excommunicated yet if the Classis allow that the officer or officers of the Church where the fact is committed shall execute the sentence with the consent of the Church then though there be difference in our judgements yet none appears in our practices If we ask further concerning the power of Synods what they may doe to Heretical Congregations The Congregational men say A Synod is a solemn Ordinance of Christ that the Synod doth admonish men or Churches in the name of Christ authoritatively as there shall be cause the Synod declares men or Churches to be subverters of the faith or otherwise according to the nature of the offence to shame them before all the Churches in the name of Christ refuse communion with them also declare in the name of Christ that these erring people or Churches are not to be received into fellowship with any the Churches of Christ nor to have communion one with another in the Ordinances of Christ And thus they practice keeping such from Communion what is this but excommunication in effect The Classical adde one step more a formal and juridical delivering such to Satan but that produceth no more effects Look into the Congregational Churches you see the same and as many effects as in the Classical upon their formal delivering c. Here is but a poor difference no man can see any difference whence I wonder that there is such complaints against the Ministers for differing about Forms For other power of Synods see Mr. Cotton Keys c. p. 25 53 54 Our Divines in their Preface to his Book say they have a Ministerial power and Authority to determine declare and enjoyn such things as may tend to reduce such Congregations to right order and peace The summe is this the Congregational men goe so far that men who have any conscience will fear to oppose and crosse them and for those who have no conscience they will little regard the Synods formal delivering to Satan but then we hope the Magistrate will not tolerate such as have no conscience nor suffer such heretical persons to vent their Heresies when the Synod hath proceeded to Excommunion or Non-communion our Author saith he must not doe so Then he helps both the Classical and Congregational Churches Yet a few more words to see if I can make things plain 1. Every Pastour of a Church hath the power of government he is a Ruler in the Church he depends on no man for this he hath it from Christ immediately annexed to his office inseparably As soon deny a Magistrate to have power of ruling in a Commonwealth as a pastor in the Church The title implies as much with divers others in Scripture They are Ministers true so is the Magistrate Rom. 13.4 Minister of God And these are called Ministers of God 2 Cor. 6.4 and

good preaching forty yeers and yet for want of Catechizing be more ignorant then many children are The Churches of England cry aloud to the Magistrate that if he will doe any thing for them then strengthen the hands of the Ministers who would set up Catechizing and Discipline 4 If the Magistrate may engage the people by Oaths and Covenants as saith our Author to whom also Gerhard inclines Then there would arise a question whither the Magistrate have not more power over these in case they Apostatize from what they have Covenanted then over others who have not so Covenanted I shall desire to add but two things more to what our Author hath set down which I conceive also the Magistrate is concerned in First The calling of Synods In the primitive times they used to have Synods twice in a yeer * That the Christian Magistrate did use to call them also when the Church came to have such Magistrates is well known the story of Constantinus surnamed Pogonatus * when the Monothelytes troubled the Church is worth the reading the Centurists in their preface to the seventh Century have set it down how he called the Synod and carried himself in the Synod a pattern indeed for all Christian Magistrates The reading of the story put me in mind of our Magistrates in N. England when the first Synod there was Called who carried themselves according to that Prince 1. Synods are a solemn Ordinance of Christ for the helping the Church against errors schisms scandals saith Mr. Burroughs Iren. p. 43.44 Mr. Cotton * hath spoken sufficiently for them The Synod of N. E. an. 1649. call Synods assembled and proceeding according to the pattern Act. 15. an Ordinance of Christ And in the third section of the same chap. say the Magistrate hath power to call a Synod the Classical Divines be sure differ not now if it be an Ordinance so much concerning the well-being of the Church then the Magistrate must look to such an Ordinance 2. Synods are necessary in regard of the Magistrate himself for as our Author saith the Magistrates Conscience is not the rule but he must looke to have his Conscience rightly informed from the word then what more likely way for the Magistrate to have his conscience informed in things concerning the Church which he must look to then to have a company of holy learned men gathered together in the name of Christ debating of matters which concern the Church the Magistrate being present as to keep civil order so also to propound what may trouble him that so he may be informed Q. But what shall the Magistrate do give himself up to the Synod our Author saith he must not give himself up to the Dictates of men Answ. First No more he doth for while he heareth the debates the reasons given on both sides propounds his own scruples he doth not give himself up to the dictates of men Secondly Mr. Cotton saith and that truly that the Synod binds not onely materially but also formally from the Authority of the Synod which being an Ordinance of Christ bindeth the more for the Synods sake If there be no respect due to Synods to what purpose are they called If a Synod may pronounce a Church to be Heretical renounce Communion with a Church and declare such a Church ought not to have Communion with any Church which is in effect excommunication as our Congregational men say then certainly Synods have Authority from Christ and a Magistrate that is godly will not lightly esteem their Determinations 2ly The Second thing which I conceive the Magistrate is to look to is to prevent Schisme what may be and to heal it where it is Schisme never riseth but from bad causes and the effect as bad Were it but in respect to civil Policie the Magistrate had need take care of this for where Schisme is there Unitie is broken and that people will not live peaceably which our Authors text mentions Rents in the Church will cause rents in the State if opportunity be given experience hath proved it But if we look to the Church there the Magistrate if he takes himself to be a Minister for the good of it shall find cause enough why he should step in here Our Author in his Sermon about Vnitie c. tending to heal our rents saith truly that the sin of schisme according to the sense of the Scripture is a most hainous sin though many make no account of it whether they be charged justly or unjustly with it He opens the evill of it both in the nature and effects of it Now however our Author doth show he hath larger principles then many other men have yet let the professors of England be tryed by his rules and then see who be the Schismaticks I never yet heard that any godly classical Divine hath so much as debarred an Anabaptist who was otherwise godly and desired forbearance from any Communion in the Lords Supper or other Ordinances but to be sure the Anabaptists the Separatists c. have denied Communion with them and cast them off with highest scorn where errors are not in the fundamentals and persons be otherwise unblameable there we ought to hold Communion Be it so let us yield it for the present is Ordination by Bishops an errour in the foundation is the owning of Abrahams seed as members of the Church and baptizing them being yet Infants an errour in the foundation so I may number more Let all the Separatists and Anabaptists with other Sectaries whatever in England charge the Classical Churches with an error in the foundation If they cannot why do they cast off Communion with them It is commonly said to us though we differ in judgement let us not differ in affection Well be it so but this generation differ not onely in judgement but affection which they manifest openly in throwing off Communion with all but their own sect and yet they call to us we must not differ in affection though they doe for Schisme is properly against Christian love but to be sure they are the Schismaticks by our Authors rules The meaning is this though we differ in judgement from you and break our Vnion with you manifesting it openly by casting off Communion with you yet you must be united to us Though we call you Priests Black-coats Antichristians and so your Churches yet you must not differ in affection Though Churches can tolerate some errors in persons when they carry themselves otherwise humbly and conscienciously and not divulge them nor labour to draw away others yet this schismatical spirit in such a high way also is intolerable As for that question What way simple error or heresie should be punished This our Author and that truly calls a hard question yet the difficulty lieth not so much in this whether the Magistrate may inflict any punishment but capital punishment As for the Papists we need not ask their judgements their