to say out of the Nonconformists against our Ministery in respect of their orders and degrees SECTION 6. CAN. Necess of Separation Pag. 37. IF the calling and office of their bishops be as the Nonconformists say it is of the earth false divellish Antichristian c. than it followes that the calling and office of the whole Ministery must necessarily be of the same nature qualities and condition to wit of the earth false divellish and Antichristian c. which is wholly derived from it which receives J say and takes it life and being of it only and no where else For if their Bishops have not a right power in themselves then can they not transferre it to another As the law saith Nemo potest plus juris transferre in ahum Regul juris 79. quam sibi competere dignoscatur No man can give more to another than he hath himselfe If Corah Dathan and Abitam when they usurped the priesthood and government of the Church should by that false power which they assumed have ordained some of the people unto the Priests office no doubt all the Israelites which feared God would have judged their place and standing unlawfull because they which made them had no commission from God so to doe The case of their Ministery is just so ANSWER IF some things of men bee mixed with that which is of God as the holy Sacraments with humane rites and humane pompe and glory with the Ministery that is from above a prudent Christian must separate one from another and not cast away what is of God as a nullitie fruitlesse unprofitable defiled because somewhat humane is annexed to them Accidentall defects or superfluities in or about the Ministery doe not destroy the nature and substance of the Ministery In the office and calling of Bishops two things are to be considered 1 The substance of their office and Ministery whereunto they are separated to wit to preach the Gospell dispense the Sacraments and administer the discipline of Jesus Christ Hieron in epist ad Tit. ca. 1. ad Evag. epist 2. Bilson chr part 2. pag. 318 319. Calv. tract deneces reform eccles Calvin instit l. 4 c. 4. sect 1.2 4 15. Zanch. in 4. praeteptum toâ— 732 733. Forb Irenic l. 2 prop 7 8 9 10. and this is of God 2 The superioritie they take or challenge over their brethren which makes not a difference or nullitie in the substance of their ministery and this is of men All Ministers of the Gospell are stewards of Jesus Christ set apart to doe his worke wherein if any one shall challenge more than of right appertaineth unto him or doe ought out of pride partialitie sinister affection tyrannie or sedition or receiveth such authoritie to himselfe alone as belongeth not to his place and office or is common to many in that he is blameworthy but thereupon his Ministery or ministeriall acts done by him are not made voide and of none effect Thus the Church of England The institution of a Christian man c. of the Sacram. of Orders Ievvel apol def par 2. c. 3. div 1 5 c. 9. div 1. in 1 Tim. 3. in 1 Tim. hom 11 Qu. ex utroque Testamento ca. 100. at least the prime maintainers of Religion against the Papists have taught That there is little or no difference betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter to which purpose Iewell cites many passages out of the Ancient Fathers as of Ambrose there is one Ordination of a Bishop and a Presbyter Chrys betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter there is almost no difference Aug. what is a Bishop but the first or chiefe Presbyter And both Conformists and Non-conforâ—â—ists agree in this that ministers rightly qualified with gifts and preaching the doctrine of salvation purely bee the Ministers of Iesus Christ whether ordayned by Bishops or the Eldership Forb Iren. l. 2. c. 11 prop. Carleton de Eccl. c. 11. p 283.284 D. Field of the Church lib. 3. c. 39 T. C. repl 1. p. 82. There being great resemblance between the Popedome and Archbishop I meane having regard to the bare functions without respecting the Doctrine good or bad which they uphold there is yet great difference betweene the persons which execute them P. Lombard l. 4. sen dist 24. Capreol in 4. sent dist 2. qu. 1. Episcopatus non est alius distinctus ordo a sacerdotio Bonavent in 4 sent dist 24. art 2. qu. 3. Th. Aqui. 3. suppl qu. 40. art 5. They that hold Bishops by Divine right greater than Presbyters and that the power of Ordination belongeth unto them doe yet acknowledge Ordination given by the Eldership to be true by the judgement of the Catholike Church And they that maintaine the equalitie of Bishops and Presbyters by the Word of God deny not those Ministers to be of God who teach sound doctrine and feed the flocke of God committed to their charge though they received Ordination from Bishops The learned among the Papists themselves freely confesse that that wherein a Bishop excelleth a Presbyter is not a distinct and higher order or power of order but a kind of dignity or office and employment only Episcopacy is not another order distinct from the Priest-hood saith Capreolus No Prelate hath more concerning Sacramentall power or of order than simple Priests So Armachanus As concerning Sacerdotall order Armach l. 11. Dom. a Soto l. 10. de just jure q. 1. art 2. de 4. dist 24 q. 2 art 3 Darand in 4 sent dist 24 qu 5. Staple relect contr 2 qu. 3 art 3. Bellar. de Cler. l. 1. c 11 s 14. cusan concord l. 2. c. 13. and things that pertaine to order they are equall Thus Bellarmine himselfe Although a Bishop and Presbyter are distinguished yet as concerning Sacrifice they exercise the same ministery and therefore they make one order and not two Cusanus goeth further All Bishops and haply also Presbyters are of equall power in respect of jurisdiction although not of execution which executive exercise is shut up and restrayned by certaine positive Lawes And Iohannes de Parisijs de potost Regal Papal ca. 10. Some say a Presbyter hath the same power in his Parish that a Bishop hath in his Diocesse From which their confession it will evidently follow that Ministers ordained by Presbyters to whom the care and government of the Church belongeth are true Ministers In Alexandria and all Aegypt the Presbyters gave Ordination vvhen a Bishop vvas not present as Augustine Ambrose both confesse Ambr ad Eph. c 4 August Quest Nov vet 4 101 Concil Nicen can 4 Concil Arelatens 2. c. 5. Con Affris can 16 Bellar. de Eccl. l 4 c. 8 s Ex quo Gratian Decr dist 23 c. 8 Theodoret hist lib. 5 c. 23. Socrates hist. lib 4 c. 35 Gr. Johan Major in 4 sent dist 25 qu. 3 inter oper Gerson Paris 1606 p. 681 Greg 1 lib. 12 ep 31. indict 7. Bedal 1 c 27. Gratian. 1 par
dist 93 ca 24 dist 95 can 5. Gratian par 2 c 9 qu 2 c. Lugdunens Calvin Justit l 4 c 2 s 11. Chamier panstr Tom 2 l 16 cap. 4 S. 9. Iun animad in Bel de cleric c 14 not 2 c 3 not 59 Chamier Ibid c. 6 s 11. Sed Catholici negaut consquentiā sciunt posse illa omnia extare in media haeresi inter Apostatas Quod si nostri negari incipient Apostatae cur Fararius cur ejus Mecaenas Jacobus Davius nunc Cardinalis non renunciarunt Baptismo apud nos quos ille disputat apostasiam fecisse recepto non jusserunt se denuo ting Author imperfect oper in Mat. hom 49. Omnia haes quae sunt proprie Christi inberitate habent haereses illae inschismate similiter Ecclesias similiter ipsas Scripturas Diviras similiter Episcopos caterosque ordines Clericorum similiter Eucharistiam caetera omnia c. And hereof the grounds and reasons are evident For on the one side it appeareth the Ancient Church did not hold her Constitutions to be absolutely essentiall to the calling of a Minister or to the semper esse thereof as if the omission or non-observation thereof did make them no Ministers Bishops by the Ancient Constitutions of the Church were to be ordained by three other Bishops neere adjoyning But instances there be manefest that the Church hath dispensed with these Canons Pelagius the first as Anastasius writeth in vitâ Pelagij was consecrated of two Bishops only Iohannes de Perusio Bomu de Ferentino Anareas Presbyter de Ostio Evagrius Bishop was consecrated of Paulinus onely Moses refusing to bee ordained of Lucius was created Bishop of them who were banished into the mountaines The Bishops of France only Dionysius ordained It is an humane constitution saith Iohannes Major that a Bishop should be ordayned of three invented for solemnity not as absolutely necessary Presbyters or Elders were ordained by the Bishop The rest of the Presbyters then present laying on their hands But seeing Bishops were greater than Presbyters rather by the Custome of the Church than by divine institution this was not simply required to the essence of ordination but according to the Custome and Ecclesiasticall Ordinances The Chorepiscopi also who were nothing but Presbyters were allowed to ordaine by the leave of the Bishop And on the other side if they bee not lawfull Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops the Churches of God throughout the world have beene destitute of lawfull Ministers for the space of this foureteene or fifteene hundred yeares which the Non-conformists will never affirme As Rome it selfe is a Church as the Church is opposed to Turkes and Infidels and as Heretickes specially they whose opinions are not in specie as they say pernicious CAN Stay § 2. pag. 11. are the Church So in Rome and amongst Heretickes so much truth of Ministery is found as the acts they doe are not voyd altogether and of none effect The doctrine of the Nicolaitaus which was that adultery and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their Idol Temples Iren. l. 1. c. 27. Epiphan 1. Tom. 1. Was not you say in the judgment of the Churches at Pergamus Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be born withal If Pergamus and Thyatyra so grievously corrupted were true Churches The receiving of Ordination from the hands of a Bishop doth not so leaven the Ministery as to make a nullity thereof or make it unlawfull for others to joyn therewith in the worship of God A Bishop ordained per saltum P. Aureolus in 4. Sent. dist 24 art 2 Capreolus dist 25 art 2. Cusan concord cathol lib. 1. cap 4. Membrum suo officio non contentum sed cupicus prae ripere alienum conturbat corporis ordinem totum c. sic singulorum ornamenta non sunt alijs congrua sed unumquodque requirit sua abijcit aliena Gratian. dist 89 cap. 1. They that hold the Office of Bishops to be of GOD do hold that the Church ceaseth not to be a Church in which this degree is not to be found that never had the Ordination of a Presbyter can neither consecrate and administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper nor ordaine a Presbyter himselfe being none nor doe any act peculiarly appertaining to Presbyters Ordination therefore is reserved to the Bishop not in respect of superiority in degree of ministery above his brethren for if he be no Presbyter he cannot make Presbyters but for order sake and to prevent Schism and division being for substance of the same order and Consecration with them If one member in the body challenge to it selfe that office which belongeth to many it breeds some disorder and confusion but makes not a nullity of that which is done Succession in the Apostles Doctrine is an essentiall and unchangeable note of the Church which wheresoever it is found doth argue truth of ministery in that society for the Preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments to draw men to internall Communion For that particular Church is the true Church of Christ which retayneth unity with the Catholickes sc the unity of the head the unity of the body the unity of Doctrine and unity of the Spirit Iohan. Major l. 2. hist de gest Scotor cap. 2. scribit Scotos per sacerdotes Monachos sine Episcopis in fide eruditos esse usque ad An. Dom. 429. adeo ut Ecclesia scotitae plusquam 230 annos floruerit absque regimine Episcopali Nam Religionem Christianam suscepit Scotiae An. Dom. 203. ficu◠consentiunt Historic◠omnes Ames Bel enerv tom 2. de Eccles Forb Iren. lib 2. cap. 11 prop. 10. Bilson perpetuall Church Government Epistle to the Reader I have alwayes had before mine eyes the most of them are Brethren for the truths sake c A. W. Ansvver to late popish Articles page 73. Iun animadv in Bel cont 5 l. 1. cap. 3. The right and povver of giving Ordination to the Ministers of the Church belongeth primarily vvholly to Christ vvho communicateth the same vvith his Bride the Church Both the Bridegroome for his part and the Bride for her part have delivered this povver of Ordination to the Presbytery jure divino afterward the Presbytery conferred jure humano this power upon them who were specially called Bishops c. Aerius was called an Heretike in the time of Epiphanius not for his opinion but for his separation which he made together with it For so the Fathers of the first Constantinopolitane Councell Can. 6. which in the booke of Canons is 169. Haereticos autem dicimus eos qui olim ab Ecclesia abdicati sunt qui postea a nobis anathemati 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praeter hos autem qui se sanam quidem fidem profiteri 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subassumunt segregaverunt autem sese
substance and essence they are true in every true and lawfull complete societie But as the profession of the truth may be found in all fundamentall points though mixed with many errours so for Truth and existence the Ministerie may be lawfull though in many particulars delinquent and deficient In the true Church then there is a true Ministerie But the true Church hath continued there by the blessing of God where the Election of Ministers hath been given away by the people or taken from them In later times the High Priesthood was bought and sold for monie and somtimes it was made annuall that every yeere new Priests were created as those Governours whom Kings change every yeere that as every man would lay out more or lesse monie he should obtaine or lose the Priesthood Which may be seen in the examples of Iason and Menelaus Neverthelesse so long as the Church of the Jewes continued the Church of God the Priesthood continued also In the Primitive Churches when the people had a voice in the choice of their Teachers oftentimes there were factions in the Church the people stood against their Guides and the Guides against their people and the people were divided one against another And sometimes either through sloth or for peace the Pastors left the election of Officers to the people Ruffin lib. 11. c. 10.11 Theod. hist lib. 4. ca. 6. August Epist 110. 225. Socrat. hist lib. 7. ca. 34 35. 39. Concil Antioch cap. 18. Sozom. hist l. 2. ca. 18 19. Naziatrz in Epit. patris Euagr. l. 2. cap. 5.8 Theodor. l. 5. ca. 23. Gratian. dist 63. ca. 11 12. Cypr. l. 3. epist 14. 10. W.B. The Church plea. §. 8. pag. 90. T.C. repl 2. par 1. p. 212. Cypr. l. 2. epist 5. l. 4. Epist 5. l. 3. epist 22. and the like he did for Optatus Satuus Caesernius Numidicus Calv. Inst l 4. c. 4. §. 10. August epist 223. Theod. l. 1. ca. 23. Socrat. hist. l. 2. ca. 19. Sozom. l. 3. c. 20. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca. 28. W.B. The Church plea. § 8. pag. 80. Centur. 1. ca. 4. Centur. 6 7. col 591. Centur. 2. c. 7. p. 134. 135. and the people challenged it unto themselves and sometimes againe they took it from their people and challenged it to themselves But in the mids of these broyles he was accounted a true Minister who was elected whether by the Guides or by the people or by the Emperour so he taught the doctrine of Salvation truely And if this be not admitted what shall be done when the people and their Elders be divided in the choice of a fit Officer or Guide If the people prevaile against their Elders he whom they chuse is no Minister to them because not chosen by their Suffrages if the Elders against the people he whom they approve is no Minister because he wants the peoples voice And if the people dissent they must separate and excommunicate one another because to the one part he is no Minister whom the other approve Though Cyprian teach That Ministers should be chosen by the people yet this forme of Election was not in some Churches in Cyprians time who were esteemed true Churches and true Ministers And Cyprian himselfe appointed Aurelius a Reader without advice of the Church by the authoritie of his fellow-Ministers then present Pinianus was ordained of the people Elder of the Church against Augustines minde and will Athanasius made Frumentius Bishop and sent him to the Indies he created Presbyters in other Churches and when he came into Egypt as many as he knew addicted to the Arian haeresie hee put them out of their place and whose Faith he tryed and approved to them he committed the Churches The Church of Cyzicena gave this honor to Atticus that without his consent it could not chuse a Bishop You will not denie but the Ministerie of the Church for the first second and third and fourth hundred yeeres after Christ was true and might be joyned withall For thus writeth a friend of yours and as it is supposed by your aide It is affirmed by the Centuries of Magdenburg that from Christs ascension unto Trajans time which is about an hundred yeers every particular Church was governed by the Bishops Elders and Deacons and describing the state of Christian Churches from Trajans reigne unto Severus that is from the yeere of Christ 100 to 195 thus they write The order of Government was popular for all Churches had equall power of teaching purely the Word of God administration of the Sacraments excommunication of hereticks and wicked persons loosing the penitent the election and ordination of Ministers and the deposition of them againe for just cause And even unto Constantines time The Primitive purity of Church Government was not yet defloured with the dregges of mans invention â—igâ—em in Apoc. 12. pag. 505. 506. Neither had Satan brought in Prelaticall pride into the sheepfold of the Lord but Pastors looked every one to the health of his owne flock And a litle after he citeth Epiphanius â— â— Ibid. pag. 90. Hierome Ambrose Cyrill Hilarie and Gregorie Nazianzene as making for him in the matter of chusing Ministers But most certaine it is within this space of time many things were done in the election and ordination of Ministers which are directly crosse to that which you require as essentiall in his calling See Iun. eccl l. 3. cap. 1. See Sâ—crat l. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 21. Grâ—e 16 17. c. 35. Gr. lat 29. ca. 36. Gr. ca. 30. lat Sozom. l. 6. ca. 18.20 Evagr. p. 2. c. 8. Socr. hist 13. l. 4. c. 10.33 Theo. l. 4. c. 6. Ambr. offic l. 1. Bils Christian Sub. part 2. pag. 28 2. Sozom. l. 7. cap. 8. Socrat. hâ—st l. 5. ca. 8. Iust in Novel Inst 223. cap. 28.9 Concil Toâ—â—â—an ca. 2â— Greg. epist. lâ—b 40. ca. 78. To Constantia the Empresse The Bishop of Salona was ordered neither â— nor any responsarie witting thereof which thing was never attempted under any of the Princes your predecessors c. Yet I obeying their graces Precepts did from my heart remit unto the said Maximus this his presumption as freely as if he had been ordered by my self c. Concil tom 2. Concil Parisien can 8. if at any time you can prove that all things were observed which I doe not beleeve Ambrose himselfe was chosen Bishop when he was onely Catechumenus before he was baptized so that he was constrained to teach that which himselfe had not learned yesterday catechised to day a Bishop The Election in all things not to be approved as consonant to the rule for the Canons were strong against it and Saint Paul seemeth not willing that a novice should be a Bishop but never thought or esteemed to be none at all Of the election of Nectarius see Sozomene and Socrates Iustinian ordained If any man build a Church or house of prayer and would have Clerkes
Christum And a little after to Bellarmine objecting the dangers which may follow in popular elections hee answereth The danger is not so great ubi conjunctus est Clerus actionem dirigit Presbyterium praesertim consilio auctoritate vicinorum Episcoporum Ecclesiarum accedente And after that Et boni vicini quoque accedant ex ordine Not. 27. fratres alti ex communi officio charitatis si quando opus est prout Ambrosium fecisse Nediolanensi Ecclesiae narrat Theodor. hist lib. 4. cap. 7. In the Primitive times one Church might elect and chuse a Pastor for another and the Governours of one Church were chosen by the confent and suffrage of others Ignatius writeth thus to the Philadelphians It behoveth you as the Church of God to chuse a Bishop Of what Church would Ignatius have the Philadelphians to chuse a Bishop Not of their owne The Church of Christ was guided by the common conâ—enâ— and mutuall agreement of both parts as well East as West as a peares in the case of Athanasiu◠〈…〉 Arian Haec quidem Aegyptii ad omnes ad episcopum Romanâ—â— Iâ—l um scripsâ—â—e 〈◊〉 apol 2. Sozom l. 3. c. 7.10 11. Ignat. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theod. l. 2. ca. 4. Basil Ep. 48. 〈◊〉 Athan. â—1 occiden◠〈…〉 69. 〈◊〉 Gallis 70. Gall. et Jtal. epâ—se 74. occident ep se See 〈◊〉 〈…〉 Or to fend some sufficient legate to heale the breach that was made and quench the flame that was kindled in his Church at Antioch 〈…〉 Govern ca. 7. pa. 76. 〈…〉 13. Cyyrian meant this of such mutuall aâ—d and concord as might profit the Church and well beseem the servants of Christ but allows not that men should run to 〈◊〉 for helpe against the judgement and acts of their Pastors Cypr. 〈◊〉 Epist 3. 4. for in the beginning of his Epistle he greatly commendeth the Bishop which they had already But he exhorteth them to elect a Pastor of the Church at Antioch as the words before going doe make it evident All Bishops saith Cyprian sunt mutuae comcordiae glutine copulatae that if any one hold haeresie the rest should helpe and therefore he moved Stephanus the Pope to write to the Bishops in France that they should depose the Bishop of Arles and to the people that they should chuse another in his roome Theod. l. 5. c. 23. Cypr. l. 4. epist. 8. See Iun. Eccles l 3. c. 1 Amb epist 82. See what Socrates reporteth of the election of Chrysost Socr. hist l. 6. ca. 2. Theod. hist l. 4. c. 6 See Theod. bust l. 5. c. 8. Sozom. l. 7. c. 8. Socr. l. 6. c. 2. Iun. eccles l. 3. c. 1. Erat sanetum talis politia in Ecclesia sicut membrorum in uno corpore ubi omnia uni compatiuntur prespuiunt medentur Illitici catal test lib. 2. p. 109. Theodoret testifieth In the ordination of a Bishop All the Bishops of a Province ought to be called together Cornelius Bishop of Rome was confirmed of the Bishops of Africk Gregorius Presbyter in the life of Nazianzene affirmeth of the Bishops of Macedonia and Egypt that they contradicted the election of Nazianzene because he was made Bishop before they came Ambrose writeth That his election was confirmed of all the Bishops of the East and West and Theodoret That Valentinian the Emperor confirmed it also Election therefore was not ever made by the particular congregation where the Pastor or Teacher was to administer but other Churches and specially the Guides by common consent were called to assist the Church in that weighty businesse And this the Non-conformists judge not only lawfull but meet expedient necessary in some cases And therefore in many particulars they except against the proposition as none of theirs and against your confident assertion that you were sure the propositions were both theirs when as it is neither found in them nor in any writer ancient or moderne nor in the holy Scriptures And when you peruse the testimonies alledged Rhemists annot in Ioh. 10. §. 1. be judge your selfe whether you did not grossely mistake or abuse your Reader when you cite the Rhemists as if they pleaded for the Parochial election of a Pastour as onely lawfull As for the Assumption It is true the Ministers of the Church of England are not ordained by the particular Congregations where they administer nor is it necessarie to a true and entire calling that it should be so That they be not approved of the particular society is false in many of them for they are chosen by their consent to be their Ministers though not absolutely to the Ministerie it selfe And in case they be not so called it is a maime and defect Parker de polit Eccl l. 1. c. 14. Deducere quidem conantur illi ex majoribus nostris minores quasdam sed absurdas inconsequentes Neque enim si necessaria disciplina sit in verbo Dei tradita idcirco separatio sicubi corrumpatur sacienda sâ—atim est nulla connexionis vi hoc porisina sequitur which should be reformed whether it be through the ignorance of the people or the Lawes of the Kingdome or the pride and covetousnesse of them that thrust themselves into that calling or neglect of Patrons or what else soever But this maime doth not make a nullitie of their calling nor the Word and Sacraments dispensed by them to be ineffectuall For in every Church where the doctrine of salvation is soundly and intirely preached and professed the calling of the Ministerie is for substance true and lawfull The Nonconformists therefore in reproving the abuses of the Ministerie and yet holding communion with the Church of England in the ordinances of worship See Calvin Instit l. 4. c. 1. §. 12 13 14 15 c. doe walke according to their own Principles the doctrine and practice of the Churches of God in all ages and direction of the holy Scritures The Non-conformists reprove the tumults of the people in election without the direction of the Presbyters Whitak de pont Rom. contr 4. qu. 1. c. 2 p. 16. Iâ—a v. admissa est populi multitudo ut vitaretur omnis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ne ecclesia esset 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ut Act. 19.32 Bilson perpet Gov. Epist to the Read Right Apostolick Bishops were such as were left or sent by the Apostles to be Pastors of the Church and Governors of the Presbyteries in every city that beleeved so long as they ruled well and in their stead as their successors to receive charge of ordaining others for the worke of the Ministerie and guiding the Keyes with the advice and consent of such as laboured with them in the Word and Doctrine Id. ca. 4. Without proofe the Church must not beleeve nor regard thy speech and proofe thou hast none One and the same person cannot be both Accusant and Deponent and in
any spirituall communion with it Truely it would make a man admire if he should understandingly compare together the writings of these two companies touching a Church ministery For in their opinious about it they are as contrary each to other as light to darkenesse Christ to Belial righteousnesse to unrighteousnesse notwithstanding though so different in judgement yea they will communicate together in one ministery but one of these against knowledge offend surely let them look well to it For to him that knoweth to doe good and doth it not to him it is sinne that is his fault is so much the more and propertionably his condemnation shall be without repentance ANSWER Instead of sound arguments wee have here your rash and unadvised censure the one of these you say against knowledge offend surely But what evidence can you bring to justifie this condemnatorie sentence or how can you reconcile your selfe unto your selfe herein CAN Necess of separat page 30. August de civ Dei lib. 5. c. 17. Nihil est loquacius vanitate quae non ideo potest quod van tas quia si volue it plus etiam clamare potest quam veretas Here you tell us the Conformists many of them at least offend not against their Conscience and formerlie you expresse your Charitie to the Non-conformists that although their practice is not strictsie answerable to their profession and therefore doe give just occasion to the Prelates to insinnate against them hypocriticall ends yet you for your part are other wise minded than the Bishops in this thing and doe thinke that they doe of Conscience condemne the state of that Church but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their principles These were your thoughts then and what should occasion this sudden change And if you will weigh what you have written of necessity you must accuse your selfe of grosse inconsideratenesse in saying you know not what and perverting mens words of all sorts or of sinne against Conscience if you write what you know to be false Considering how you deale in both your bookes throughout I scarce know an Author who hath more need to look home than your selfe It is true the Conformists and Non-conformists have written on both sides one against the other in matters of Church Government and Ceremonies and perhaps with bitternesse more than beseemeth wherein alwayes the forwardest men have not been of the greatest judgment or best moderation And therefore every thing that is written must not be interprered as the judgment of all or most of either side but as the private opinion of the pen-man which falleth out in all controversies amongst all sorts But whatsoever outcry you make of contrarieties there is no point of that weight and moment controverted betwixt them as might justly hinder communion together in the Ordinances of Religion If their contention had broken forth to such an head they might have beene answered more justly the one or both sides to offend of furie if not against conscience The Conformists you say keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe Calfeh against Mar. cap. 1. pag. 21. b. Somebuild timber and hey and stubble yet must vvee not take the hope of Gods mercy from such evill car penters as lay so rotten a covering upon so sure a building whereas othervvise they offending in tristes be sound enough in other matters and stick to Christ the only substantiall and true foundation for they consesse down right that their Ministerie is from the Church of Rome It seemeth you did neither much care nor enquire what they professe else you might have seene they say and professe in this point as the others doe The Conformists I use that word because you are pleased so to speake maintaine against the Papists that the first Bishops who laboured reformation in this kingdome did receive their ordination from Romish Bishops and had such calling as was to be found in that Church But doe they only acknowledge so much was not this evermore received for a truth in the ancient Church that ordination received from heretikes not erring in the maine fundamentall truths directly was true and effectuall Doe not all reformed Churches which have separated from the abominations of Rome professe that the first reformers amongst them received some ordinary calling in the Church of Rome which remained in that time of the visible Church corrupted For some of them were Bishops some Priests and Doctors approved of the Vniversities and ordinarie Churches many of them preached the Gospell and administred the Sacraments before excommunication or persecution raised by the Adverfaries in that they were sent unto or set over severall Churches or congregations in which they ought to execute their office or ministration therein they received commandement to preach the Gospel If men that sent them did mix anything else to their calling they must be obedient to divine institution not to humane addition So being after an ordinary manner sent of God singularly they were extraordinarily stirred up of him to promote and set forward his kingdome Rivet Cathol Orthe tract 2. q 8. s 3 Belthaz Lydias no. in disp Tabari c. 11. Whit de ecc q. 5. c. 6. Bucer Siquid boni fuit in successione vocatione ordinatione Ecclesia jum cum primos nostros doctores Deminus excitavit id totum in illis si fuisse dixerimus quid cantra obycient poâ—lificit Num exim cedo vel Judaei vel Turcae vel Barbari ac prophans homines de reformanda Ecclesia prim verba facere ac non potius viri gravissimi doctissimi que Ecclesia passoris Thus Luther Hus Wickliffe and others were called both ordinarilie and extraordinarilie an ordinary calling they received in a corrupt Church and extraordinarily they were stirred up to fulfill the Ministerie they had received according to the commandement of God and not after the traditions of men It is generally received for a truth at this day that Baptisme administred by heretikes who erre not in the maine fundamentall truths of Baptisme In the ordination of bishops it is said Interrogamus te si omnem prudentiam tuam quantum tua capax est natura divinae scripturae sensibus accommoder evolueris vis ea quae ex divinis scripturis intelligis plebem cui ordinanduses verbis docere exemplis Accipe Euangesiâ— vade praedica populo tibi commâ—sso or deny not the essentiall forme of Baptisme is true for substance And if Baptisme be true and must bee reverenced as Gods ordinance deserveth there is some truth of Ministerie amongst them They that thinke the basest of Rome will acknowledge the Baptisme administred by Priests and Jesuites to bee true for substance And if the Baptisme of God may bee received or derived from their Ministerie it is no absurditie to affirme that the first seekers of reformation derived authoritie from God to preach the Word and administer the Sacraments by their Ministerie
certainly depend upon the Bishops calling wholly and no manâ— else and if any in the Land stand otherwise hee cannot properly be said to be a Minister of that Church but rather is a schismatike from it Id. p. 57. according to the formall constitution of it c. The most free Parish hath but only a liberty to admit of a Minister before made by the Bishops so that the people give him not any part much lesse the substance of his calling Id. p. 61. but a bare permission only to exercise by vertue of that calling But none may heare or have spirituall communion with such a Ministerie Id. p. 213. whose calling doth essentially depend upon the Bishops calling If the ministerie of the Prelates belong not to any ordinarie assemblies then is the same Antichristian and so consequently is that which is derived from it And so much from their own principles wee have formerly proved Id. p. 213. The Ministerie begotten by the Prelatesis illegitimate and false I say those which take their offices and callings from them are bastardly Ministers The Ordination of Priests and Deacons by the Prelates is unlawfull and Antichristian and the Ministery is false so long as they doe retain that false calling which they tooke first of the Bishops Id. p. 45. they of the Pope and he from the Divell Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God and worketh upon the consciences of men See CAN Stay §. 6. p. 78.79 by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling him the people of God ought not to receive or joyne themselves unto But all the Parsons Vicars Parish Priests stipendaries c. that stand over the Church Assemblies in England deale with the holy things of God and worke upon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling ANSWER Vpon this one prop lyeth all the weight of your building wheâ—em you strangely triumph as if you had stopped the mouth of the Non-conformists for ever that either they must goe backe from what they have writen against the abuses of the ministery or confesse they have said and unsaid as occasions have changed now maintaining that as right which even now they condemned as false and Antichristian And this you presse over and over with great confidence and insolencie But this stay I have plucked out of your hands already and shewed that this exception hath no weight or soundnesse either from truth or Non-conformists principles In answer to this renewed blast of words I will briefly repeate what hath been proved more at large Bilson Christian subject part 2. page 296. Bishops have their Authority to preach and administer the Sacraments not from the Prince but from Christ Himselfe Goe teach all Nations c. onely the Prince giveth him publiked libertie without let oâ— disturbance to doe that which Christ commandeth Id. p. 309. The charge which the Preachers and Bishops of England have over their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope ner dependeth on the will or word of any earthly creature Chaloner Credo second par◠§. 2. He which conferres Baptisme and Orders as the principall Donor is Christ the Bishop or Pastor confers them only as his instrument August contr Crescon l. 4. c 6. per ministros dâ—spares Dei miâ—us aequâ—â— est quitâ—n â—â—illorum sed ejus est CAN. Stay §. 3. p. 60. August in Psalme 10. Christ sent him that betrayed him Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 860. The ghostly worke is Gods the bodily service is the Priests wherein Iudas the thiefe Simon the Sorcerer c. may challenge as James c. First the Ministers of the Gospell derive not their authority or office from the Bishop Patron Presbyterie or people but immediately from Iesus Christ whose servants they are whose words they preach whose Sacraments they administer whose flocke they feed by whom they are protected and to whom they must give account If he be an Antichristian Minister who derives his authoritie from the Classis or Bishop he is Antichristian likewise who derives it from the communitie of the faithfull for neither the one nor the other can justly challenge that authoritie to themselves The Bishop Colledge Ecclesiasticall or Church cannot make a Minister formally or vertually but only as Stewards they put him in office whom Christ the King of Saints and head of the Church hath designed Wherein if Pastors or people shall walke disorderly challenging more than of right belongeth unto them or giving up their right through sloth negligence ignorance or security or not attending unto the direction of the great Shepheard of the flocke shall chuse a man unfit or not well qualified or shall proceed rashly tumultuously upon misguided affection in that weightie businesse though they incurre just blame and reprehension yet that makes not a nullitie of the Ministery or of the Ordinances dispensed upon that Election and Ordination Your selfe telleth us and that from the example of the Scribes and Pharisees That men being lawfully called to the Ministery are to be heard howsoever in some qualifications defective And if disorderly proceeding in election or want of just and fit qualification in the person elected do not make the election voyd how shall the meere want of consent in the people cause a nullity in the ministration If the carelesse or wilfull neglect of administration and execution of his office cause not a nullitie of the choyce Vnreasonablenesse of Separ p. 56. They may acknowledge a further calling than that of the Prelates yet not therein renounce the calling received from them for the Prelates being learned Divines and having approved their gifts and by words and Letter te stimoniall giving liberty to execute the Ministery of the Gospell they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery but leave them c An Examin of D. â— Cen. p. 33. why shall the lacke of the peoples suffrage which they voluntarily have given away or otherwise lost make the ordinances dispensed by him that is chosen to be of none effect 2. The consent of the people is not required to make a man simply a Minister neither doth Episcopall Ordination make a man the Minister of this or that people Therefore it doth not hinder but a man may bee made Minister by the Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church and a Minister of this or that people by the free choice approbation and consent of the faithfull So in the fourth age of the Church somtimes the people would chuse a Minister whom they thought meete and afterward bring him to the Bishop to be admitted by him as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostome de Sacer of the chusing of Basil when Iohn Chrysostome himselfe gave him the slip Sometimes the Bishop would espie a meete man himselfe and require the consent of the people to chuse â—s it appeareth by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor 3. The
Papists themselves who stand so much upon the necessitie of succession and ordination by three Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church Bellar. de Eccl. l. 3. c. 10. S. Ad Secundum are yet forced to acknowledge That to know that Pastors are true there is required neither faith not lawfull Election but this onely that they be acknowledged such of the Church and that they hold the place of Christ de facto though not de jure And seeing you pretend to build upon the Non-conformists principles you may take notice of their profession which is this Baptisme administred by Popish Priests is good and sufficient and they are to bee accounted for Ministers though they bee not good and lawfull Ministers but usurpers and intruders The like may be said of such as without ordinary calling An Examin of D. W. Cen. art 11 page 14. counterfeite themselves to be Ministers and so deceive the Church In these the secret consent of the Church receiving them for Ministers untill their wicked usurpation bee espied may be sufficient to authorize their ministery toward others CAN. Necess of Separ Page 234. If I were not unwilling to give occasion unto the Bishops to insult over these men I could hence manifest much bad dealing in them but I will forbeare for the present and do referre the Reader to their owne principles which is Jd. page 239. CAN. Necess of Separ p. 221. Are the Princes of the earth bound by Gods Lawes to maintaine the ordinary ministery of your Assemblies then have you from time to time shamfully mocked and abused them in craving so earnestly for their ayde to have and place thereof CAN. Stay Sect. 1. page 50. that all Ecclesiasticall officers ought necessarily to bee made by the free choyce of the Congregation wherein they are to administer And if they can prove all this I doe not see but the Controversie may easily be taken up betweene them and the Bishops only then they have just cause to begge pardon of them for their pleas against their Prelacy and the maine heavy accusations which they have put up both to Princes and Parliaments against them ANSWER Here you play the Rhetorician and make shew what you could doe but that you will for the present take some compassion upon the Non-conformists Whereunto I will returne no other answer than what you have made to my hand As for your minsing figure of extenuation I could hence manifest I like it not For you do here none otherwise than if a Thiefe when hee hath stript a man out of all that hee hath would faine yet bee counted mercifull in that he doth not murder him or binde him as some others have done Let any indifferent man read your writings and he will say you have not spared your opposites but shot at them Arrowes of bitter words and made them as odious and vile as man can do But blessed is hee that is not offended at the truth for such things Looke upon your selfe in that which you say against your opposites You referre your selfe to their Principles and they make nothing for you as it hath beene alreadly shewed and you might see your selfe if you did not shut your eyes The reason which here you bring is but your owne saying said over many times and indeed bewrayeth more cunning CAN. Stay §. 2. page 55. than reason truth or Consciene and to speake in your phrase sophistry than sincerity For in plaine termes this is your forme of arguing If the Episcopall ordination be not a meere nullitie Vnreasonabl of Separ page 54. I know none having received Ordination from the Prelates that need deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Ministery which they have taken from them T. C. repl 1. Ep. By exercising unlawfull authority and by taking unto them partly such things as belong by no meanes unto the Church and partly which are common unto them with the whole Church or else with others the Ministers and Governours of the same if the ministerie of the idle carelesse prophane yea of the learned godly and painefull be not a meere Idol then have the Non-conformists just cause to begge pardon of the Prelates which hangeth together as a rope of sand The ministery of the Priests Scribes and Pharisees was true in time of the Old Testament and in the dayes of our Saviour Christ had the Prophets then and our Saviour just cause to beg pardon because they accused them of ignorance pride tyrannie contempt of the truth oppressions hypocrisie as blind guides and ravening Wolves who spoyled and made havocke of the flockes The Non-conformists never deemed the ministery of the Church of England for the substance and essentiall parts therof to be false and Idolatrous nor craved the aide of the Prince and Parliament to have it quite or in part abolished you have just cause to begge pardon that slander them in this manner But they complaine of abuses in the ministery and these they desire might be reformed That the ministery might be more pure and incorrupt They complaine of the usurpation of some who challenge that as peculiar to themselves which belongeth to their brethren in common who admit the basest of the people into the office of the ministerie doe that by their sole pleasure which should be done by common Counsell King Canutus made a Lavv by the Counsell of his sages at Winchester That Bishops be Preachers and Teachers of Gods Law and carefull followers of good works Leg. 26. And that every Christian learne so much that he can the true faith and the true understanding therof namely the Lords Prayer and the Creed or else not to have Christian buriall neither to bee admitted whiles he liveth to the Lords Table c. Amb. de dignit sacerdot ca. 3. Quantò prae caeteris gradus Episcopalis altior est tanto si per negligentiâ—m dilabadur ruina gravior est Magna sublimitas magnam debet habere cautelam CAN. Stay S. 12. p. 120 Honor grandis grandiori debet soliciâ—udine circumvallors and disregard the consent and approbation of the Church both in Ordinations and excommunications and if the ministery of the Church of England be true for substance might they not without blame desire and crave the reformation of this abuse they complaine of the pompous Non-residents who feede themselves and regard not the flocke strive after preferment and heape up livings but labour not in the word and doctrine nor look after the welfare of mens soules they accuse these as the poyson and bane of the Church or unfaithfull shepheards who leave the flock to be dispersed and scattered and yet they will not say their ministery is false or Idolatrous or a meere nullitie doe they then shamefullly mocke or abuse the Prince or Parliament in petitioning that this grosse corruption might be reformed They accuse the ignorant carelesse prophane Ministers of neglect of their office and unworthy any place
CAN stay Epist to the Reader CAN Neces of separation Epist to the Reader wisheth tendernesse of conscience to his Reader ever and anon objecteth to his â—pposites what abominations and vile corruptions they labour to justifie which formerly they condemned beareth in hand that the Scriptures speak expresly for him and the learned of all sorts ancient and moderne who would not expect faire cariage and honest dealing whereas let the whole frame of his writings be looked into with a single heart and unpartiall eye and it will be found wery corrupt loose deceitfull for the matter and stuffed with scorne reproach slander insolency and falsifications for the manner Herein whether I speake the words of truth and sobernesse let the Reader search and then give sentence But for mine owne part I desire to answer in the feare of God and not to strive with him in the like measure of sinning A good cause needs no such tricks of wit but as it is of God so it is able to maintaine and defend it self and the more sincerely it is propounded the more it will prevaile In controversies if men will keepe a good conscience their zeale must be tempered with wisedome truth and meeknesse of spirit they must speake as in Gods presence give the right sense of Scripture and make fit application of it seeke the truth in love and that victorie alone which truth will carrie According to the measure of grace received from God I shall desire to walke within these bounds and with this resolution I come to compare cause with cause and reason with reason Let the Scriptures be the only judge betweene us upon which all a Aug. Epist 48. Audi quid dicit Dominus non quid dicit Donatus c. Et de Pastor ca. 4. Ego vocem Pastoris requirâ— lege de Psalmo c. Hieron in Mat. 23. Quod ex Scriptura non habet authoritatem c. Basil de vera fide Nos omnem a Dominica doctrina alienam vocem sententiam fugiamus Chr. in 2 Cor. hom 13. Obsecro oro omnes vos ut relinquatis quid huic vel illi videatur de his scripturis haec omnia inquirite Ambr. tom 3. lib. 5. epist 31. Caeli mysterium doceat me Deus ipse non homo qui seipsum ignoravit Petrus de Aliaco praec Gerson Nullum principis edictum aut ecclesiae decretum est justum nisi sit Divinae legi consonum Novum Testamentum est malleus qui universas haereses interimit est velut lucerna lumen exhibens recurrendum est ad folas Scripturas ut aeteâ—nam salutem adipiscamur conclusions in Divinitie if sound are grounded whereby all distinctions if true are warranted After the voice of God in Scripture the determinations and practices of our Guides who are no b Mat. 11.8 Luc. 7.14 1 Reg. 14.15 sc calamus arundincus non aromaticus sâ—â— mensorius CAN stay answ sect 1. p. 47. Howsoever we must live by our owne faith notwithstanding wee are not lightly to esteeme of the determinations and practices of our Guides specially when we know they are no reedes but men stable and unchangeable in the truth Bilson Christian subject part 2. pag. 351. Many Bishops have taught lyes and and seduced Princes in the Church of God and therfore not their dignitie but their doctrine is it that princes must regard for neither prince nor people stand bound to the persons of men but unto the truth of God and unto their teachers so long as they swerve not from the truth Id. Absolute judge of truth neither prince nor priest may challenge to be for God is truth and of God I trust no man may bee judge The sonne of God saith of himselfe I am truth c. Angust de nuptiis ad Valentin l. 2. cap. 33. Optat. lib. 5. ad Parmenian And page 351. Only God is to limit and appoint by his word what shalt stand for truth and what for errour c. And as Bishops ought to discerne which is the truth before they teach so must the people discerne who teacheth right before they believe Idem page 355. As the pastors have authoritie from Christ to preach the truth and woe be to them that resist the preachers of truth so have all hearers both libertie to discerne and a charge to beware of seducers given them by the same Lord and woe be to them that doe it not reeds but men stable in the truth shall be produced for they are not lightly to be esteemed though their consent cannot bee the ground of Divine faith and assurance The Lord in mercie give us to know the things which concerne our peace comfort and salvation and make us wise to walke in all pleasing before him CHAP. I. THe Question betwixt us is Whether by the Scriptures and principles of the Nonconformists The state of the Question Separation from the Church of England be necessary or lawfull Those that hold it lawfull to be present at the preaching of the Word but not to partake in the prayers of the Congregations nor to be present at the Sacraments there administred I leave to their owne defence The necessity or lawfullnesse of Separation is that which I deny Neither is it here questioned CAN. Necessit of Separ Epist to the Reader Whether the principles of the Nonconformists be true and justifiable but whether the necessity or lawfulnesse of separation can truly and justly be inferred and concluded from them This Position therefore I lay downe as directly contrary to the other That separation from the prayers Sacraments and preaching of the Word of God in the congregations and assemblies of the Church of England is unlawful by the Scriptures that whatsoever complaints whether just or unjust the Nonconformists judicious learned and holy have made of the corruptions in our Church government Ministerie Worship Prayers Administration of the Sacrament and people received or permitted as externall members they doe not inferre either in their judgements or in truth a necessitie or lawfulnesse of Separation from our Churches as no true Churches of Christ our Ministerie as false and Antichristian our Worship as Idolatry And therefore I shall shall hope such as have separated unadvisedly if men of tender hearts they will repent of their rashnesse seeing the grounds where upon they build are rotten the building ruinous and the practice directly tending to the scandall of Religion and discomfort of their soules And now I proceed in the feare of God by the beames of Truth to try and examine what is objected to shew the necessitie of Separation from the Nonconformists principles SEC I. TO Communicate in a false Ministerie CAN. Neces of Separat ca. 1. S. 3 pag. 26 27. The Church acts of Antichristian Ministers are Idolatious Id. Stay sect 1. pag. 5. s 4. p. 28. Id. Stay Answ s 5 pag. 66. Mat. 24.5.24 Hos 4 17. See Jun. on the the place See
murderers in the Church of the Jewes sprung up with them and continued amongst them and neither departed themselves nor were cast out by others that had authoritie In the Christian Church divers false Teachers ravening Wolves Antichrists rose up 1 Joh. 2.19 Tit. 3.10 1 Tim 1.20 2 Thes 2.3 4. Phil. 1.15 not from among the heathen or Jews but in and from themselves whereof some went out from the Church and separated themselves others were cast out by excommunication and delivered up to Satan that they might learne not to blaspheme Others were tolerated in the Church either because their heresies were not so pernicious at the first or the better side had not power to cast them out or they preached the fundamentall Truths but of evill mindes These in respect of outward order were lawfully elected or called but false Prophets discovered by their doctrine not by their calling When the Apostle exhorteth Timothy not to partake in other menâ— sins doth he not intimate that unfit unable unworthy Ministers might be ordained in the Churches though unlawfully and some of them continuing in the Church the Faithfull are not forbidden to partake of the Ordinances of God because they are present but to beware of their errours that they be not infected by them But if by strangers we understand onely such as did arise from without and brought blasphemous doctrine directly contrary to the foundation of the Faith or such as are justly cast out by the Church that they might learne not to blaspheme then the Faithfull might neither communicate with them in publike nor receive them unto house but flie from them both in minde and body But thieves who lead not in by the doore Christ who have strange voices which the sheep acknowledge not who bring another foundation besides Jesus Christ Atha ad solitariam vita agentes complaineth against Constantius That whereas the Bishops in those daies were wont to be lawfully chosen by the people of the place and sufficiently examined and allowed by other Bishops ad joyning and openly created in the Church Constantius in stead of the Church would have his â—alace succeed and for the multitude of people and right Assemblies to elect he commanded three Euâ—uches to be present and three of his Spies or Prolers for you cannot call them Bishops that they sixe in his palace might create one Felix a Bishop And notiâ—g what manner the Emperor and his Eunuches made he saith In illorum locum juvenes libidinosos e hnieos ne catechismo quiaem imbutos neâ— non bigamos maximis crimin bus male and entes modo aurum darent vesâ—i emptorese forâ— ad Episcopatu summiserere Bilson Christian Subj part 2. pag 255. these are not to be enrolled with such as teach the doctrine of Faith truly for they are not strangers either in respect of Sect Religion or Lawes they are of the houshold of God they serve the Lord as he hath prescribed and walke according to his Law And what is it to wrest the Scripture if this be not when that which is spoken against utter enemies of our Saviour Christ who refused to be shepheards under him and his Ensigne is applied to them who are furnished with singular knowledge wisedome and utterance teach the truth of the Gospell intirely and leade the sheep of Christ to the waters of life whose labours God hath blessed whose voice the sheep heare and receive in whose message they rejoyce and whom they follow as they teach Christ You pretend the testimony of the learned in this matter but let the places be examined and they will be found either to make directly against you or nothing for you as I shall have occasion to shew in the next Section and shall be done more fully when you shall set downe the words of the Authors whereupon you build and attempt from them to make good your conclusion In the meane space I will forbeare tediously to repeat over and over again that such and such make nothing for you and such and such are grossely abused and falsifyed Now let us lay the Principles and Inference together and see if they close The Nonconformists complain of many grosse abuses in the Ministerie in the Election Ordination Qualities of the Person admitted and execution of the function as that ignorant negligent profane men are set over the flock and Non-residents Pluralists men of corrupt mindes who discourage the godly and hearten the profane But this complaint they put not up against all but many in the Ministery The Inference you would make upon their ground is That it is unlawfull to communicate not onely with these men in the Ordinances of Gods Worship but even with the most learned godly and painfull who teach the Truth live holily dispence the Mysteries of Godlinesse purely be approved of the Congregations and blessed of the most high If I took pleasure in your veine call it as you please I could say CAN. Stay §. 11. p. 114. I suspect my sight and I aske of my selfe againe and againe could the Treat write so unskilfully For if this be not a Non sequitur then Fooles cannot speake Non-sense You may take it home For I know not to whom it can be so fitly applyed as to your selfe When this Inference is made good by Scripture Reason or Learned Author I shall suspect that the Non-conformists doe not walke according to their Principles But till then there is just ground to think that in making such Inferences you abuse both your selfe and others That which you adde concerning the dumbe Ministers out of M. Penry CAN. Neces of Sep. p. 43. Id. Neces of Sep. Epist to the Reader is besides the point for he was no Non-conformist but a Separatist by your confession and if no man of pietie will pleade for them yet men of piety learning and judgement doe and must pleade for it is a truth that there is not an absolute Nullitie of their Ministerie and this I presume upon better advice you will not denie or if you doe you must not stay in the Separation which you have made SEC II. CAN Necessitie of Separation pag. 29 30. NOne may heare or joyne in Spirituall Communion with that Ministerie which hath not a true vocation and calling by election approbation and ordination of that Faithfull people where he is to administer Id pag. 46. If their Parsons Vicars Parish Priests Stipendiaries c. be neither in election nor ordination made Ministers agreeable to the Word of God then is their Ministerie false unlawfull Antichristian and so consequently they deale with the holy things of God CAN. Stay §. 11. pag. 113. All these affirme That whosoever taketh upon him to preach without a lawfull sending commeth in not by a lawfull election and holy Church ordinance but breaketh in against order by force and favour of men and by humane lawes he is a Stranger a thiefe a murderer according to Christs
sayings in Jolm 10. And thus have the old Writers expounded the places as Iraeneus lib. 4. cap. 4 Clemens Alexan. lib. 1. Strom. Cypr. libs 1. Epist 6. 76. Didimus in Iohn 10. â—upert in Iolm 10. Theodoret ibid. and others But the present Ministeriâ— of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England hath not a true vocation and calling by election approbation and ordination of the Faithfull people where they Administer Therefore none must heare or joyne in Spirituall Communion with the present Ministerie of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England Which of the Propositions the Non-conformists will denie I know not but sure J am they are both theirs Howbeit it may be they doe not so well weigh their owne Principles as they should And hence it is that their practice is not so strictly answerable to their Profession and therefore doe give just occasion I speake it with griefe unto the Prelates and their Parasites to insinuate against them hypocriticall ends in condemning so grievously the Ministerie worship and government of the English Church CAN. Neces separ Epist to the Reader What better should we expect from them who seek to put out the light againe which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed unto many I know what I say and have good experience of this thing and yet to partake in the knowne evills and abuses thereof But for my part I am otherwise minded than the Bishops in this thing and doe thinke that they doe of conscience condemne the state of the Church but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their Principles For which cause I have written of purpose this Treatise to prove they cannot justifie their Tenents against that Church and stand members lawfully thereof ANSWER HANNIBAL said once saith M. Parker There was not so much as one in all the enemies campe that was called Gisco In an Epist published in the profane schis of the Brownists Parker of the Crosse part 2. c. y. §. 2. As for those of the Separation who have confuted them more than wee or who have vvritten more against them Some things of truth they hold with which we thinke it no more sinne for us now to agree than Cyprian once to agree with Novatianus in that which hee esteemed right c. So whatsoever stirre or sedition was moved by the unbeleeving Iewes it was imputed to the Iews that were Christians who were thought to be all one with them Caesar Baron Anâ—al in anno 201. The impuritie of the Gnosticks was drawne to the defamation of all other Christians no difference being made between them Cicer. Parad. 2. M Sutel tract de disc ca. 15. pag. 165. Bell of Ch. Govern cap. 12. pag. 151. 152. Bancroft tract of discip cap. 33. pag. 430. 431. 432 Laus Querim Eccles pag. 62. 63. So whereas the Egyptians were diri ventusi fa ibundi jactantes vani liberi nova um rerum cupientes the Christians and all that are there dwelling are thought to be the very same So may it truly be said now Not so much as one of the Godly Ministers that suffer in England about the Discipline that may deservedly be called a Brownist And the Nonconformists doe no more lay the grounds of Separation than the Reformed Churches sowe the seede of Libertimisme and Anabaptistrie which of all others they have most soundly confuted and judiciously laid open to the world without seeking to justifie ought that elsewhere upon good reason they condemned to be evill But it is no new thing to reproach them as the Authors of errors heresies or schismes who principally laboured the suppressing of them No man cryed downe the Errour of the Manichees concerning a good God and an evill so much as Austine and yet their opinion is charged upon them that hold his opinion of absolute Predestination The positions of the Stoicks answere to the opinions of the Remonstrants concerning Free Will and power in Man but the contrary side is burdened therewith The grounds of the Nonconformists stand directly opposite to the speciall grounds of Separation and yet they heare from some that they be Separatists in heart from others that they have laid the foundation and the Separatists build upon it and that such as have made answere to the Separatists doe against conscience put out the light which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed It is true they complaine of abuses in the Church and not to excuse humane frailty sometimes with heat and fervour excessive and humbly sue for reformation But to seek redresse of what is out of order is rather to endeavour the repaire of what is ruinous than the plucking of it down Jt is one thing dutifully to urge the proceeding of our Church unto perfection another schismatically to leave and forsake her Betwixt these two there is as much difference S. B. The rasing of the foundation c Epist to the Reader as is betweene that child that in tender affection reproveth and laboureth the reformation of his Mother whom he seeth by her indiscreet behaviour to become a reproach among women and him that under pretence of the hate of her uncomely behaviour should pluck out her bowells and forsake her They complaine of abuses remaining in the Reformation not denying that a wonderfull and gracious reformation is already made but moving to a through and perfect reformation of what is wanting and out of order For willingly they confesse that next unto the Lord God every one of them is most deeply bound unto the Kings and Princes whom he hath used as excellent instruments to deliver his Church here out of the spirituall Egypt of Poperie T.C. Repl. 1 fel. 155. This they willingly confesse before men and in their prayers daily give most humble thanks to God for And by their earnest suite and humble desires which they have for further reformation they are so farre from unthankfulnesse that they desire the heape of felicitie to the Church and Commonwealth Which of the Prophets doth not cry out against the Priests in time of the law Against their pride oppression covetousnesse tyrannie that they despised knowledge opposed the true Prophets of the Lord countenanced impietie and profanenesse and shewed themselves enemies to all goodnesse Did the Prophets then who knew what it was to worke according to their owne Principles teach a necessitie of Separation or give presidents to others to separate by their example In all ages of the Church Platina in vita Marcellin Hanc autem calamitatem quam nostri passi sunt a Deo permissam refert Euseb c. Cypr. de duplici Martyâ— Hic discrucior quod non paucos Pastores habeat ecclesia qui non solum non opponunt sua corpora adversus luporum inciersus verum etiam ipfilupos agant c. Concil Nic. 1. ca. 2. Gratian. dist 48 ca 1. Leo ad Afri an Epist. 85. Grat. dist 61. ca. 5. Hieron ad Oâ—e an ep ad Nepoti T.C.
repl 1. pag. 41. Ambr de offic lib. 1. cap. 50 Grat dist 93. cap. 21. Ex quo iâ— Ecclesis sicut in imperio Romano crevit avaritia perit iex de sacerdote visia de Prpheta Bas in Asceticis Chry. desacer complaints have been made against abuses of this nature by all sorts ancient and moderne who never denyed the Churches where the true faith was professed to be the true Churches of Christ Cyprian complaines thus Here I am grievously troubled that the Church hath many Pastors who not onely doe not oppose their bodies against the incursions of wolves but also they themselves doe play the parts of wolves whiles they destroy the souls of the simple they themselves serving their bellies gaine and ambition and make merchandise of the Word of God and adulterate it with ungodly opinions The Counsell of Nicâ— makes complaint That many things in the admission of Presbyters and Bishops was done contrary to the Rule Leo That the office of a Pastor and government of the Church was committed to men altogether unworthy Hierom reproacheth the Bishop of Ierusalem that he could as himselfe boasted make in one houre a thousand Clarks and condemneth it in others That Clarkes run to the Bishops suffraganes certaine times of the yeere and bringing some summe of money they are ordained being chosen of none Ambrose sheweth the abuse in his time to be this If a man asked some of them who preferred them to be Priests answers is made by and by that the Archbishop for an hundred shillings ordained me Bishop Nazianzon in Apolog That they which handle holy things with unwashen hands and polluted souls are more in number than they over whom they rule Miseri in â—iotate miseri in splendore And ad Maximum Ad Pastoralis muneris administrationem nihil contulerunt ui 〈◊〉 quod comam quam turpiter alere studuerunt raserunt And in the same place De pecumiis jam in ecclesia bellum geritus When Basil of an Heathen was made a Christian he saith That he did greatly wonder at the dissentions which were in the Church concerning Faith and the contentions of the Governors because every one leaving the doctrine of our Lord Iesus Christ did challenge to himself by his owne authoritie certaine rules and orders Also J perceived dissentions to arise from hence because there was no discipline no knowledge of God or it was perveâ—se if any Chrysostome Neque immeritos solum adlegâ— sed idone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Toletan Councells complaine that for eighteen yeeres no Synod was held Whence came grosse ignorance and corruption of the Ministers It would be too long to set downe at large the grave sharpe and lamentable complaints that Nicholas de Clemang Petrus de Aliaco See Nichol. Clemang speculum Eccles Petrus de Aliaco reformat Eccle. Bern. in Conv. S. P. ser 1. Heu Heu Domine Deus Ipsi sunt in persecutione tua primi qui videatur in Eccl sia tua primatum genere Id. in Cant. ser 76. Parum est nostris vigilibus quod non servant nisi perdant Gildas See Vsser de primord Eccles Brâ—â— Hâ—oper on the 8 Command pag. 74 79. Whitaker de pont Rom. presat ad Audito res In sch smatis remedium hoc primo invenâ—um est quod ipso morbo magis pericudesum fuisse molti virt sancti prudentes judicarunt Quod quamquam non statim apparuit tamen misera experientia demceps demonstravit Tum enim ambitio irepsit in Ecclesiam Episcopi caeperunt non minus de dignitate suarum sedium quam de Christi grege cogitare c. Gregor Nazianz. orat 2. pag 399. They intrude themselves unto the most holy Ministeries with unwashen hands and minds as they say and before they are worthy to come unto the Sacraments they affect the Sanctuarie it selfe circum sacrasanctam mensam premuntur protenduntur esteeming this order not an example of vertue but a maintenance and helpe of life Bernard and our Gildas have published against the Ecclesiasticall Governours of their times for their ignorance pride luxurie riot drunkennesse persecution of all true godlinesse covetousnesse rapine contentions brawles simonie and what not And since the time of Reformation not the Inconformists only but the godly Bishops and Martyrs themselves have observed bewailed and reproved these abuses Father Latimer in his Sermons generally but in his Sermon of the Plough is plaine and large against the pompe and idlenesse of Bishops who Lord it over but feed not the Flock of Christ muzzle the people in ignorance and profanenesse live riotously hunt after preferment but seek not the winning of souls unto God Bishop Hooper complaines saying It is great pity to see how farre that office of a Bishop is degenerated from the originall in the Scripture it was not so at the beginning when Bishops were at the best as the Epist of Paul to Titus testifieth that willed him to ordaine in every Citie of Creete a Bishop And as sharply and closely he censureth the Bishops of his daies for arrogating to themselves so much witt as to Rule and serve in both States in the Church and in the Civill Policie and to the contrary professeth That one of them is more than any man is able to satisfie and that it is not possible that one should doe both well and that it is a great oversight of the Princes and higher Powers of the earth so to charge them with two burdens when none of them as he saith is able to beare the least of them both The accusations which are brought against both the Ministers and members in the Separatists Congregations are not few nor light nor such as can be wiped away with reproaches All these have borne witnesse of the great disorders and corruptions which have been in the Church of God but they never deemed the societie was to be abandoned because of these great and erroneous blemishes rather they sought the redresse and reformation of what was amisse If some things of man be mixed with that which is of God as humane superioritie with divine Ministerie the pure wheat with some chasse the holy Sacraments with rites savouring of superstition a found Christian is not to cast away what is of God as a nullitie fruitlesse defiled Antichristian Idolatrous because somewhat humane is annexed unto them nor in defence of the good to be charged or condemned as going crosse to that which he taught against the evill Aug. de fid bon oper tom 4.4 Nos vero ad piam doctrinam pertinere arbitramur ut canes in ecclesia propter pacem ecclesiae toleremus Iun. animad in Bell. contr 5. l. 1 ca. 3. l. 1. ca. 3. not 24. Speaking of Popish ordination saith A parte ad totum non procedit argumentatio In ordinatione aliquid nihil facâ—unt ergo nihili faciunt ordinationem Quod Dei quod ecclesiae in ea est permagni facimus quod
same I leave it to your conscience to judge This is sure neither Scripture nor Author cited doth speake with you in that matter but plainly professe that it was unlawfull because it was expresly forbidden That exercise saith Zanchie did seeme praise-worthy to the Israelites and yet it is to play the harlot Why because it is sacriledge to depart from the Word of the Lord. But the Word of the Lord had commanded that they should worship the Lord only at Ierusalem and by such rites as hee had instituted The Kings who are commended in Scripture who yet tooke not away the high places as Asa Jehosaphat Amasias Azarias and Jothian they were not commended for suffering the high places but that they were constant in faith and religion although they fell into some peculiar sins But withall the abuse of the high places in the worship of God was no light sin but very grievous because it was properly and expresly against the divine law and precept As for the ten Tribes who departed from the house of David they shined grievously in that they worshipped the Calves and that in a place of worship elected of themselves contrary to the word of God leaving and forsaking that place which the Lord bad chosen to himselfe They professed the true God and turned not aside to the gods of the Heathen and in that respect are called the house and family of the Lord 2 King 10.16.31 Hos 9 15. 1 King 12.31 Lev. 17.7 Hebr. Sep. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iun. demonibus Deu. 32.17 1 Cor. 10.10 Ex. 32.1.8 Acts 7.41 1 Cor. 10.7 1 King 12.28 and 14.9 2 Chron. 11.15 Heb. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 See Ainsw Annot. in Lev. 17.7 et Iun. ibid. Rainold de Idolola l. 2. c. 3. Isa 44. Qu. Co. pag. 61. CAN Sta. §. 3 pag. 18. Babingt in Lev. 17. See Iun. in Lev. 17.3 4 11. But as they sacrificed at Bethel and committed Idolatry in worshipping the Calves so their service was abominable and their Priesthood appointed for that service a meer nullitie and humane device Thus all the Jewes and Gentiles are said to sacrifice unto Divels who sacrificed in such sort and place as God had forbidden especially it they sacrificed unto Idols though in them they sacrificed unto the true God in their imagination as the Israelites had done when they made the golden Calse and sacrificed unto it and Ieroboams Idols are called Divels and he is said to make Priests for the high places and for Divels Further this Ordinance of God was typicall and did shadow forth Christ as the learned do observe and not without ground and warrant All Altars Sacrifices Priests and the Temple it selfe where the Altar stood were but types and shadowes of Christ You your selfe cite out of Bishop Babington that hereby was signified that only in the Church by faith in the chiefe high Priest Christ Jesus sacrifice and service accepted of God is and can be offered and done and no where els By the erudiments saith another Christ was shadowed among the Jewes and expiation made on the crosse by his blood From hence briefly let these things be observed 1 That the Jewes sinned by facrificing in the high places and the Israelites at Dan and Bethel because God had forbidden it expresly but against communicating in our assemblies no such prohibition can be brought forth which haply might bee the reason why you had rather say because they had no divine precept for it than because it was forbidden which yet you know to bee most certaine 2 Though it bee not lawfull to communicate with the people of God in their sins yet wee may partake in the ordinances of worship with such as offend grievously in the worship of God as the Prophets and faithfull communicated in the ordinances of God at Jerusalem with them that sacrificed upon the high places 3. That in Idolatrous and false Churches that which is meerely of men is vaine and fruitlesse and a meere nullitie but if among them something which is of God remaine it is not to bee esteemed a thing of nought 4 Wee must neither forsake all societies wherein wee espie many things repugnant to the Word of God nor cast off every thing in those societies wherewith we must not hold communion as false vaine and ineffectuall In Idolatrous societies Cyp. lib. 1. c. 4. The people must not partake with the sacrifice of a sacrilegious Priest there may be some truth which I must not cast away though I must not hold society in their Idolatry In the true Churches of Christ there may be diverse errors and abuses wherewith I must not communicate though I must live and hold fellowship in the society I am bound to keepe the unity of that living body S. B. Second ansvver pag. 20. whereof I am a member even with some inconvenience of sickenesse and unsound parts but I must not joyne my selfe to a strange body and so become a member of Satan 5. They that communicate in the Worship of God in our Assemblies doe neither bring a strange oblation nor goe to a place forbidden for the worship is of God and the Congregation assembled in his Name and he is there present to feast them that draw nigh unto him in truth of heart Can. Stay Sect. 3. Pag. 19. Ought we not to beleeve that as God had commanded us to worship Him that is to heare his Word receive the Sacraments and to use other His Ordinances so Hee hath also called and separated unto himselfe a Church a Communion of Saints and holy ones in and amongst whom these holy things are to be used and that we are to looke in what fellowship wee receive the holy things of God as what the things are we doe receive In a word ought we not to be perswaded that as the legall Sacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple within whose circle they were prescribed by the mouth of God were unlawfully offered so all the Ordinances and exercises of the Church under the Gospell done out of a true constituted Church are altogether and every way sinfull Deut. 12.5 6 7. ANSWER God hath separated unto himselfe a Church and amongst them hee is to bee worshipped according to his owne appointment But this Church is of larger extent than that which you call a true constituted Church wee reade that the Lord did chuse a certaine place for sacrifices Deut. 12.5 6 7. after which it was unlawfull to sacrifice in any other and so we read also that the remaindes of the Paschall Lamb was to be burnt and the flesh of the Ramme of Consecration with the bread that remained unto the morning Exod. 12.10 Exod. 29.34 Levit. 15.19 I yeeld the Scripture a witnesse of my sense and my exposition without the Scripture let it bee of no credit Orig. Hom. 9 in Jer. CAN. Necess of separ pag. 2 11. Can. Stay Epistle to the Reader Iohn 2.19 21. 2 Cor. 6.16 So
the Altar is put for Christ in the Ancients Ignat. ad Magnesian To one Altar to one Lord Iesus Christ Ad Philadel one Altar to all the Church Iren. adv haeres l 4 ca. 34. est Ergo Altare in caelis Euseb Hist lib. 10. cap. 4. and the flesh of the peace-offering But that all Ordinances of the Church done out of a true constituted Church in your sense should be altogether unlawfull or that the Ordinances are tyed to your Church constitution as the Sacrifices were to the Temple that we reade not and how then shall we be perswaded of it Remember your owne request Let the Scripture speake in the points betweene us for without it nothing is to be affirmed and beyond it nothing to be concluded Principally of old the Temple shaddowed Christ in and through whom we must present our service unto God and then the Church of Christians but that the externall constitution of a Congregationall societie is represented thereby in such sort as if it be thus or thus constituted it should be lawfull to joyne with them but if this or that externall rite be lacking it should be unlawfull to joyne in the worship of God is most unprobable In all ages the Lord hath had his Church in which he hath beene worshipped But evermore the faithfull were not to bring their sacrifices to the Tabernacle or Temple And if the Lord had chosen not that place for sacrifice other service pleasing and acceptable might and ought to bee performed in other places Therefore that Sacrifices should prefigure all Ordinances and exercises of the Christian Church Fulke in Matth. 23. Sect. 7. The Lords Altar that was in the Temple was a figure of Christs onely true sacrifice once offered Bishop Babin comfort notes upon Exod. 27. and the Tabernacle and Temple the externall frame and constitution of a Church is an unwritten tradition It is more reasonable a great deale to compare the externall frame of the Iewish Church with the outward order which God hath instituted for the Evangelicall Churches and worship with worship substance of Religion with substance and then it will follow that as the faithfull and religious Iewes might and ought to hold societie in the Ordinances of Religion when many things were amisse in the externall frame and constitution of the Church as the Priests idle covetous prophane the people dissolute impenitent rebellious so the faithfull in the Christian Church must hold Communion in the Ordinances of Grace though in the constitution of the Church the Officers and members much be out of order Doway annot in 3. booke of Kings pag. 7 15. The Doway glosse hath much more probbaility than yours To conserve unity say they there was but one Tabernacle one Altar for sacrifice in the whole people of Israel Wherupon when the two tribes and an halfe on the other side Iordan had made a severall Altar all the Tribes that dwelt in Canaan suspecting it was for Sacrifice sent presently to admonish them Aug. Epist 48 Quis non impudentissemè c. vid page seq Omnis ea distinctio in re Theologica est inanis fictio quae ex Dei mentiri nescis authoritate non accipitur quaeque rem ipsam de qua agitur tollit c. Martin de persona Christ page 632. c. but what end shall we have if every man upon his owne head may devise or Coyne significations of Gods Ordinances What is this but to bring in a new word to set up Sacraments upon our own heads Herein we say to you and them as you to your opposite I require the voyce of the Shepheard Read it mee out of the Prophets Shew it mee out of the Psalmes c. In the interpretation of the Types and Figures of the Law mens judgements if the Scripture goe not before them are of small credit Can. Stay Sect. 3. Pag. 20.21 If that be true in the Philosopher Opposit a sunt simul natura Arist Topic l. b. 6. Bonum est cujus contrarium est malum Rhetor. l. 1. If vvee take a strâ—ct vievv and enquirie of that Ministery Worship and Government vvhich they left at Dan Bethel it will appear evidently that the same was not more salfe idolatrous and unlawful than the present Ministerie worship and Government of the English Assemblies is by the Non-conformists affirmed to be Jeroboams Apolog in his Arrovv against Idolatry CAN Necess of Sep. p. 85.86 87 88. Course of Comfor p. 161.162 Opposite things in nature are alike Againe That is good whose contrary is evill It must needs followes that as some Churches are visibly true in respect of faith and order so others may bee true too having outward order albeit the members thereof have no faith at all The which assertion is not to bee answered but abhorred The tenne Tribes which departed from the Lord from his Temple Sacrifices Priests Altar and other holy signes of his presence at Ierusalem from the time and still after were not Gods Church so the Scriptures shew Hos 2.2 and 2 Chron. 15.3 Ier. 3.8 Amos 9.7 c. And the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethel were not in respect of faith and Doctrine more corrupt than the other now is Mr. Amsworth and the Non conformists affirme that the Apostate Iewes could justifia their way and course of Religion as well if not better than the other ANSWER The Philosophicall Maxime to which you have reference is Arist. de Caelo lib. 2. cap. 3. Text. 19. Posito une contrariorum ponitur alterum But as you cite it It is as hard to be found as your translation is to be understood That it is not universall appeareth out of Arist himselfe who putteth down the contrary Maxime as true and certaine Arist Gategor l. c. 11 de contrar Non necessarium est Si contrariorum alterum sit alterum esse Nam si omnes sint sanitas quidem erit morbus non erit So in the first Creation of all things all things were very good and there was nothing evill All things created are finite in act but amongst things created there neither is nor can be a naturall infinite Truth and false-hood good and evill Piety and Idolatry are opposite and that before ever false-hood evill or Idolatry had any being in the world Contraries we know expell one another Or if one be necessary in the subject the other cannot be in it at least in the intense degree as if fire be hot it cannot be cold Now it is necessary that every thing created be finite and good as created and therefore good had a being before evill If it be objected that opposites are relatives and relatives are together in nature the answer is they are relatives secundum dici as they speake not secundum esse which may bee said to be together in nature Not that both are in act existent out of their causes but because the nature of
in l. 9. cp 9. Aug. epi. 118 119 See Caranz sum Concil fol. 43. Iustin Martyr Tortullian Clomens Romanus Eactantius and others vvere of opinion that no particular judgement passed upon the Saints untill the laft day Sixt. Sen. Biblioth l. 6. an 345. The Pastors of this age spake more unwarily of justification and grace than was meet prayer for the dead was ordinarie the foundation of prayer unto Saints was laid and defended by the teachers themselves with overgreat zeale in the superstitious vigils and frequenting the Sepulchers of Martyrs The former prophanation of the Sacraments by superstitious rites much increased some whereof are abolished by the papists themselves Libertie is taken from the Ministers the Bishops contend among themselves with ambition hatred affecting high titles and precedencie more than the good of Gods Church the pleasure of peace and securitie tooke away all care of godlinesse Now they seeke the reliques of Saints goe on pilgrimage to Ierusalem consecrate Temples to Martyrs esteeme it more religion to build certaine places and to pray in them than in others and to live by prescriptions and will-worship of Monkes c. than to walke according to the rule of Gods Word Now they give themselves to corrupt religion with idle and impure rites Images that were not mentioned in the first and second ages of the Church in the fourth fifth and sixt age were brought into the Church in some parts painted upon the walles retained for Historicall and Rhetoricall use to informe the understanding and stirre up devotion and of some began to be worshiped which Gregory himselfe disliked Monkes kept the communion at home and wanting a priest communicate themselves No publike assemblies could be found in which the ordinances of God did flourish intirely Augustine complained of the multitude of rites and ceremonies which were in his time wherewith the Church was grievously burdened but in the ages following was much more intolerable Of the particular slips and errours of the ancients it is needlesse to say more Here I would demand was this Church all this while thus corrupted the true church of Christ or a fals was the true worship of God performed in these assemblies the true worship or was it pernicious Idolatry If a true Church then a societie T. C. repl 1. pag. 73 wherein corruption of Doctrine and of the Sacraments hurtfull Ceremonies dominion and pomp of the clergie new orders and functions of the Ministerie is to be found may be the true Church of God And what then can you object against the Church of England to prove it a false Church If a false Church Fulk ansvver to the Rhem. in Eph 4.13 all the true Bishops of the primitive Church for six hundred yeares and more after Christ in all necessary points of doctrine agree vvith us and therefore vvere ancestors of our Church In the later times also for every age vvee can name divers pastours and teachers even in the most darke times c. Calfeh against Mar. preface to the reader Greg. epist. l. 7 indict 2 c. 109. Concil Nicen. a but that Councel vvas not generally received Sigth in an 755. Reger Howden continuat Beda anno 792. Feild of the chuteh l. 3 cap. 8. See Calfehil against Mart. art 3. p. 58 69 c. Bilson Christian subject part 4 page 316 317. This vvas about the yeare of our Lord 1160. See Vsser de suceess Eccles History of the Waldenses Daltha Lydia hist Chaloner credo Eccles part 2 sect 2. then either the faithfull were bound to avoide all societie and fellowship with it in the ordinances which a sober minded man will not affirme or all communicating with a false Church in the ordinances of God is not pernicious idolatry The faithfull which lay hid in this corrupted state of the Church and did partake in the ordinances of worship were never held and reputed Idolaters In the ages following the mystery of iniquitie did grow amaine for the worship of Images first began and after was concluded the Pope obtained to bee called head of the universall Church Saints were invocated as Mediators the Communion was mangled and delivered in one kind the merit and dignitie of workes advanced to the prejudice of Gods grace the doctrine of reall presence and orall eating of Christs flesh in the Sacramant by good and bad and the adoration of the Eucharist was taught and received These grosse corruptions prevailed for a time in the Church before they were concluded upon in Synods or Councels opposed by some condemned by others and manfully withstood especially the worshipping of Images During which time the faithfull who condemned these abominations did lie hid in the Church keeping themselves undefiled from these errours but separated not themselves from the ordinances of grace nor gathered themselves into a distinct body After these abominations were concluded the first that separated themselves were the Waldenses Albigenses or poore men of Lyons who withdrew themselves from the societie of the Romane Synagogue and worshiped God in distinct companies according to his will These are reported to be men of sound life and god linesse by the testimonie of very enemies themselves notwithstanding they were most shamefully traduced and grievously persecuted for Christs sake But after this separation made by them If sheepe in a pasture vvhere venemous hearbs are mixed with vvholsome can by the instinct of nature make choise of that vvhich is proper for them and abstaine from the contrary vvhat marvaile is it if the flocke of Christ vvho know the voice of the true Shepheard from the voice of strangers should by the guidance of Gods assisting spirit doe the same Chaloncredo Cameron dc Eccles ca. de schism See Field of the church l. 3 〈◊〉 6 8. Carleton descript ca. 1 p. 8. divers other godly men did patiently endure the tyranny of Antichrist and groaned under that heavie yoake bewailing the misery and reproving the sinnes of the time sought to reclaime others and labour to keepe their owne selves free but did not actually separate from the societie And this as the learned judge was done if not by Gods commandement at least by gracious indulgence Vntill the time of the Trent Councell saith one the Church although oppugned with errours and deceits of divers kinds oppressed with tyranny did not patiently endure the tyranny of the Pope and the impudency of the Fraterculi And though oftentimes before they had thought of separation yet they could never effect it untill that was fulfilled which the Scripture had foretold It is here to be further noted that neither the Waldenses who first separated nor the reformed Churches which in after times cast off the yoke of Antichrist and abolished his Idolatry did make such a pure and perfect reformation in all things as was to be desired And therefore if they be measured by your meat-wand they must all lye under the censure of false and idolatrous Churches who worship God with a false
adversus Canonicos nostros Episcopos congregationem faciunt Howsoever therefore the Non-conformists dissent from others touching the Office and calling of Bishops as it is esteemed a degree of ministery above Pastors and Ministers of the whole Diocesse who leave the care of Preaching to particular flockes unto others and challenge that as peculiar to themselves which is common to others or properly belongeth to many yet they never denyed the word Preached by them that professe the intire faith and the Sacraments administred by them to be the true effectuall Ordinances of Iesus Christ And most that approve the calling of Bishops deny not that there may be a Presbytery but that a Presbytery is so fit for a Monarchy being of opinion that the forme of government is left to the discretion of every Church And both sides professe that there is not any difference betwixt them which may either deprive them of salvation by the death of CHRIST or barre them from living brotherly and Christianly as members of one and the same Church It is a rule you say That no man can give more to another than hee hath himselfe But this rule of Law is unskilfully applyed or else while you dispute against one false ministery you set up another or destroy the ministery altogether For the community of the faithfull have not power to preach the Word or administer the Sacraments and hee that derives his authority from them which they have not to give is no true Minister If they be false Ministers who derive their authority from them that have it not then they that derive it from the Church as the Primitive and immediate subject must goe in that number For the Church hath not that authority and she cannot give what shee hath not Bellar. de Sacram. I. 1. ca. 26. Hussilae ordinationes sacerdetum a Romano pontifice petere consueverant Hier. in Dialog advers Luciferian Luciferiani admittebant baptisma collatum ab hereticis sed non ordinationem Bel. ubi supra Iohan 12. a Leone 8. antipapa schismatico ordinatos dicere compulit pater meus nihil habuit sibi nihil mihi dedit Nic. 1. Ep. 1. Si execrabilis utique non and bilis sinon audibilis inefficax Euseb hist. l. 7. c. 2 3 4 8 Hâ—rm Conf. conf Behem art 12. de Bapt. Grat. par 2 c 1. q. 1 c. 30.31 32 33 c 40 46 47. Bel. de facr l. 1 c 26 de Eccl. l. 3. c 9. §. Resp igitur Iun. animadv Contr. 4 l 3 c 9. not 1.1 Greg. Naz. orat 40 Sint duo annuli alter aureus alter serreus Cal. Instit l. 4. c. 15 s 16. Antidot concil Trid. ad can 12. The Classis or Presbytery you will say hath no authority to ordaine a Minister which is to administer in another congregation and hee that derives his authoritie from them that have it not to give is no true Minister If the people and guides of the Church both consent they have no authoritie to call or consecrate an unlearned covetous profane hereticall Minister and he that derives authority from them that have it not to give is no Minister and that which is done by him is of no validity his prayers are not heard the Sacraments administred by him are not seale of the covenants or internall communion with Christ or his faithfull people A false Church or ministery hath no power to call and ordaine a Minister or to give him power to preach the pardon of sinnes or dispense the seales of grace and the authority granted by them that have it not is a meere blanke These and such like are the proper consequences of this rule misapplyed All which no fort of Christians ever admitted as sound and true The Papists are very forward to challenge the reformed Churches as no true Churches because they have no true Ministers but such as were ordained by Heretickes or are fallen into heresie And yet when they have spent their breath they dare not deny but baptisme administred by Heretickes who hold intyre the forme of Baptisme is true and so the Lords Supper and ordination likewise For the impiety of the Minister cannot pollute the purity of divine mysteries neither shall they be ineffectuall to the children of God although dispensed by Iudas the Traytor Heretickes have not saith Bellarmine the remission of sinnes formally but they have it ministerially as a servant who hath not one farthing of his owne may carry many thousands of his Masters to some other man In things naturall and artificiall the effect is not like to the instrument but to the principall cause as heate is the instrument of fire though it have not the substantiall forme of fire and the baptisme which is administred and the word which is preached of wicked men is not the baptism or word of wicked men but of Christ Anatolius was consecrated of Dioscorus Felix of the Arians See Gratian decret cap. 1. qu. 1. cap. 32.33 34 35 36. 37 47. Every Minister of the Gospell derives his authority gifts and office immediately from Iesus Christ the Church people patron Presbytery or Bishop are only Stewards to set him in Office whom the Lord hath designed Aug. Consess art 8. Gratian. dist 19. can 8. Cusan concord Cathol lib. 1. cap. 5. Ex quo nunc apparet ad salutem membrorum Ecclesiae fictos in exercitu existentes effectualiter ministrare Bilson Christian sub j. part 3. p. 102. AARON was called to that office not by Moses but by God Himselfe though hee vvere annointed by Moses hands Heb. 5. Cath. Cons p. 130. Yates model of Divinity page 257. Mason Success of Bishops published by authority aâ— 1614. wherein if any one or all of them shall challenge more than of right appertaineth to them or doe ought out of partiality seditiously tyrannically or disorderly in so doing they deserve blame but that which is done is not in every respect voyd and of none effect as it hath beene shewed at large The power of ministration is received from Christ and not derived from men either formally or vertually for they have it not to give but the designation of the person is by mâ—n ministerially or instrumentally Can. Neces of Separat Pag. 38. The Conformists keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe For they professe downe right that their ministery is from the Church of Rome so that if the Popish Bishops Priests and Deacons be good theirs bee good also they being from them Now no doubt these men doe well perceive that their ministery cannot possibly be justified unlesse it bee by this way of dispute In this respect their judgment and practice is one and so farre they are to bee commended and I verily thinke that if they were sure that the ministery brought into the Land by the Prelates from Rome is false and Antichristian as the Nonconformists affirme it to be that many of them would not hereafter ever have
of God 2. Their qualification for this office their care in execution and other accessories which may be added of man If for substance of office their calling be of God wee are bound to hold communion with them though in the qualification execution and other adhering circumstances some things bee amisse which it is not in our power to redresse This our Saviour Christ hath expressely taught and made knowne unto uâ— both by his Doctrine and example as hath beene shewed already Hereunto this one thing may be added that many Pastors and teachers in the Church of England be called qualified and doe carry themselves in their charges and places according to the direction of IESVS CHRIST the chiefe shepheard of his sheepe and other for substance of Ministery are Pastors and Teachers CAN Stay Sect. 6. pag 79. If to heare Antichristian Ministers bee to serve God in and by an Ordinance If in preaching the truths of the Gospel in a false Church no Idolatry bee done then may a man vvorship God in a vvay of his ovvne devising blamelesse Id. §. 5. page 77. way or institution devised by Idolaters and with Idolaters then it is unlawfull But the first is true Therefore the second The proposition is undeniable by the Treatisers owne confession you should have said the assumption for if the Treatisers words prove ought they must be applyed thereunto As for the proposition they speake not to it at all But forwardnesse here and in many other places hath made you forget your tearmes of Art He that heares the Ministers of the Bishops sending and of the Parishes sent to he heares in the sense of the Scripturs false Prophets Id page 81. Such as hearken to Antichrists Ministers do therein approve of Antichrists unlavvfull povver over the false Church and the Divels donation or his putting of that povver into his eldest sonâ— hâ—nd Id. §. 6. p. 84. But it is not lawfull to heare false Prophets The Major is proved clearly in defencâ— of our twelfth objection The Minor is certaine by these reasons 1. The hearing of false Prophets is forbidden in the word of God c. ANSWER You busie your selfe to weave the Spiders web which is good for little long in weaving but soone swept downe Our Ministers be not Antichristian Ministers nor false Prophets in the Scriptures sense because they preach the whole counsell of God in all points necessary to salvation and rightly dispense the seales of the Covenant by authoritie derived from Jesus Christ the Lord and King oâ— his Church the great Shepheard of his Sheep At least they are set apart to this office which was never deemed Antichristian in the Church of Christ But if we take these words Antichristian Ministers and false Prophets in your sense for you use them in a peculiar dialect then it is not only lawfull but necessary to heare such as you call Antichristian Ministers For it is commanded in the word and acceptable service unto God the meanes to build up the Church It is to hold communion with God to reverence his name to lay hold upon Christ and lodge him in our bosome It sheweth that a man is one of Christs sheep because hee heareth his voice and a member of his sheepfold the servant of the most high God it manifesteth love and zeale to God and is ordinarily blessed to the soul and conscience of the dutifull hearer And in that which you alledge to the contrary you misalledge Scripture speak evill of the truth revile the heritage of the Lord and grievously wound your owne conscience The religion professed and worship performed in our assemblies is true not only in respect of the object but of nature use and end and whatsoever circumstances are necessarilie required to lawfull worship And the false Prophets mentioned in Scripture are of one sort yours of an other even the true Ministers of Jesus Christ But let us turne over to the twelvth objection to heare the cleare proofe of that which here you affirme for thither you send us CAN Stay §. 12. p. 116 117. The Treatiser as you call him propounding this objection of yours that the Scriptures of the old and new Testament warne Gods people of false prophets which the Ministers of that Church are having an unlawfull calling maketh answer 1 By denying that the Scriptures warn men simply not to hear false Prophets i.e. any false prophet whatsoever And then propounds a distinction of fals Prophets that some fals Prophets were in the Church of God and these might be heard as they had place in the Church till they were orderly repressed or at least discovered others were not in the Church but simply without and these were not to be heard This is the plaine and direct answer of the Treatiser as every man may perceive that is not grosly ignorant or wilfully blind But see how you jest and dally with it unconscionably when you had nothing to answer 1. You say he peremptorily denyeth the whole objection and so consequently affirmes that all false Prophets may be heard But what new Logicke is this whereby we may learne to draw such consequences In former times it hath beene thought reasonable to deny an universall negative or affirmative proposition when they hold not true in all Individuals No false prophet is to be heard This proposition may justly be benyed if any false Prophet may be heard though all might not 2 You adde presently and with the same breath He unsaith what hee said before But this is a palpable and grosse calumny For he said not that all false Prophets might be heard by all nor denyeth what hee granted at the first that some may be heard but plainly implyeth a distinction of false Prophets which I can hardly thinke you did not perceive though you be pleased so to pervert his words If there appeare any deep and inextricable riddle in the words you may fitly apply to your selfe what in this very place you report of Marcus Antonius's souldiers who unawares fell upon an hearb that greatly distempered their heads You tell us Id pag. 116. The Treatiser since he lighted upon his Gourd he is not like himselfe in his other writings and I can easily believe it for in his other writings for separation he is insolent censorious scornfull and slighty In this mild Christian and for the most part more substantiall As you deale with your Treatiser to scorne what you cannot answer so you doe with others in this very argument and that much more absurdlie Master Br. in maintenance of the Ministerie of the Church of England The unreasonab of separation p. 2 3 4 7. as it is established by Law distinguisheth betweene the substance of the Ministerie and the execution thereof the essentiall parts of the Ministery and some accidentall circumstances adhering unto them by man For substance saith he the present Ministerie of our Church assemblies is the very Ministerie which Christ hath set in
word which doth ordinarily beget men unto God ought to bee heard yet wee cannot conclude on the contrary the word which doth not ordinarily beget is not to bee heard For the word is but a morall cause or instrument of faith and repentance whereby the Spirit worketh not necessarily but at pleasure If therefore the Spirit worke by the word as his instrument it is of God and wee are bound to heare it But if God worke not by it effectually to saving conversion it is of him notwithstanding So this affirmative is true sinne deserâ—eth death but this negative will not follow on the contrary good works deserve life For of justice death is due to the sinner as his wages but eternall life is the gift of grace The Papists argue thus Disgrace done to an Image tendeth to dishonour God and therefore by the Rule of Contraries Honour done to an Image tendeth to the honour of GOD. Their inference and yours turne both upon the same hinges And I might truly say unto you in your owne words Ibid. Have you not here shewed your selfe an acute disputer for to pull downe Bethel you build Babell to condemne the true hearing of Gods Word you commend Idolatry Consider therfore your owne reasons and be not so rash and hastie to disgrace your brethren Your obscure translating of Philosophicall Canons CAN. Stay Sect. 2. pag 54. CAN. Stay Sect. 9. pag. 100. I will passe over as Relata sunt simul natura which you English thus Relations in nature are alike and apply it as strangely Qualis causa tale causatum you translate thus As is the cause so that which is caused of the doing of the thing Idem qua idem semper facit idem which you render As is the same so alwayes followes the same effect whereby you turne principles or Canons at least into riddles and it is hard to say whether your interpretation bee more obscure or misapplication unreasonable to speake in your language as vaine as ever man made For that which is spoken of causes univocall necessary and proper at least that you referre to morall instruments as if the word preached by wicked instruments might not bee effectuall or a man could not heare an ungodly Minister preach the Gospell but he must partake in his sin CAN. Stay Sect. pag. Sect. 3.16.17 Id. Sect. 4. pag. 28. sect 5. p. 40. sect 1. p. 49. sect 4. p. 62.63 67 72 73 74 75. You are large in proving what is not questioned as that God must bee served as he hath appointed That it sufficeth not to intend a good end but the meanes must bee lawfull That men must not bow their knees to an Idol under pretence that they reserve their hearts unto God That wee must bee earnest and zealous against Idolatry That the matter of worship must be grounded on the word Consciences shall never find any sure port to run unto but only God Calf p. 22. and that it must be done in a right and lawfull manner order form or way That the law of God is the rule of conscience That custom must not prescribe against truth That we must not doe evill that good may come thereof with other the like which you know well your Opposites do believe and maintaine But that God is not worshipped in our assemblies as he hath appointed That to heare the word preached in our congregations is pernicious Idolatry that the means therein be unlawfull that the ministerie is Idolatrous or the worship vaine that you prove not either by Scripture or any learned approved Author whatsoever you bring in both your bookes to this purpose besides your own peremptorie actions may be shut up in few words The Authors which you quote are oftimes abused you mangle their words and make them seeme to speak what they never meant or intended CAN Stay sect 3. p. 57. The truths they teach you say speaking of the Ministers of the English Church are from God but the office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist and a speciall character or marke as the learned write of the beast Simon on Rev. pag. 120. Acts Mon. edit 5. pag. 588. On Rev. ca. 14.9 Though Priests Deacons for preaching Gods word ministring the sacramets with provision for the poor bee grounded on Gods law yet have these sects no manner of ground thereof L. Cobh Act. and Mon. p. 514 5â—5 Thus said Iohn Chaydon a Martyr of Christ The Bishops licence to preach the Word of God is the true character of the beast that is of Antichrist The like M. Bale and others But no word sounding that way is to be found in M. Simons Since their law of Confirmation was made saith hee the Bishop with the Chrisme doth signe the partie in the forehead with the character of the crosse And since they made their new office or sacerdotall thus they make their cate chumine The child or partie is brought to the Church doores where the Priest maketh a crosse with his thumb on the forehead of the childe and at the font the priest maketh a crosse in the right hand of the child c. Thus this Author but to your purpose not one word M. Bale was so farre from condemning the office of Bishops simply as Antichristian that hee himselfe was Bishop of Osyris in Ireland And how likely it is then that he should absolutely condemne a Bishops licence to preach the Gospell of Jesus Christ in the Churches of Christ as the mark and Character of the beast let any man judge What he might condemn in some respect and consideration in popish bishops as they stand sworne slaves to that Antichrist of Rome that cannot be drawn to the testimonie of Bishops CAN Neces of separ p. 25â— who have cast off the authoritie and renounced the doctrine of Antichrist And the same may bee answered to the testimonie of John Châ—ydon You many times repeate that upon the Nonconformists grounds to returne unto the service in the Church of England is to joyne with Idolaters in Idolatry This no doubt is a vehement accusation if it can be proved if it be rashly surmised then it is as pestilent a slander But ground out of the Nonconformists for such conclusions you have shewed none nor once take notice of that which is alledged to the contrarie which you could not but see if you could have found any exception against it They doe not deny but there is a visible Church of God in England and therefore your saying of them that they doe almost in plaine and flat tearmes say that we have not so much as any outward face and shew of the true Church argueth that you have almost no love in you which upon one word once uttered contrary to the tenour of their booke T.C. repl 1. p. 8. Vnreasonab of separation p. 81. and course of their whole life surmise this of them Thus a chiefe Nonconformist
right Religion Else the Heretiques in England would never have received so much of it For some have avouched it to my face saith the Author of the Curtaine of Church-power that the service there is nothing to the Masse in the English others that it wants nothing but the Popes consecration These things thus retrived it was also thought that popish Kings and Princes would be the lesse offended what marvaile seeing the Jesuites themselves are so well pleased with the ceremonies and service that I heard one of them God is my witnesse herein make it his hope that the maintenance of them against the Puritans would make England the sooner returne to Rome in the rest Quâ—vadis sec 4. Mine eyes and eares saith Bishop Hall can witnesse with what approofe and applause divers of the catholique royall as they are termed entertained the new translated Liturgies of our Church Which is the lesse wonder seeing Pope Pius the fourth sending Vicentio Parpatia Cambd. An. 1560. Abbot of Saint Saviours to Queene Elizabeth offered to confirme the English Liturgie by his Authoritie if shee would yeeld to him in some other things Indeed it pleased them so well Fresh suit l. 1 203. that for the first eleven yeares of Queene Elizabeth Papists came to the English Church and service as the Lord Cooke sheweth L. Cooke de jure Regis Eccles f. 34. Syons plea. 49.91 Others of them affirme the same namely their Church-service pleaseth marveilous well the Romish Beast and his ungodly followers Witnesse the Pacification of the Devonshire-Papists in the time of King Edward the sixth when as they understood it was no other but the very Masse-booke put into English Witnesse also the assertion of Dr Carrier a dangerous seducing Papist The common-prayer-booke saith he and the Catechisme conteined in it hold no point of doctrine expresly contrary to Antiquitie that is Consider pag. 45. sect 8 9. as he explaineth himselfe the Romish-service onely hath not enough in it And for the doctrine of predestination Sacraments grace free-will and sin c. The new Catechismes and Sermons of the Puritan-preachers run wholly against the common-prayer and Catechisme therein conteined c. Motiv Preface to the Answ And thereupon he comforteth himselfe upon the hope of the supply of the rest To this effect speaketh Bristow and Harding If these things be right why not the rest It shall not be amisse to marke one occurrence in Queene Elizabeths time who being interdicted by the Popes Bull Secretary Walsingham tryed a tricke of State-policy to reverse the same He caused two of the Popes Intelligencers at the Popes appointment to be brought as it were in secret into England to whom he appointed a guide being a State Intelligencer who should shew them in Canterbury and London service solemnly sung and said with all their pomp and procession Which order the popish Intelligencers seeing and so much admiring they wondred that their Master would be so unadvised as to interdict a Prince or State whose service and ceremonies so symbolized with his owne So returning it the Pope they shewed him his oversight affirming that they saw no service ceremonies or Church-order's in England but they might have very well beene performed in Rome whereupon the Bull was presently called in That which you alledge against the English-Service-booke in particular Answer you intend against all set-formes of prayer or stinted Liturgies whatsoever For the use of them is a false devised idolatrous antichristian worship in your account Thus you know your Brethren of the Separation have disallowed all set and stinted formes Johnson Ainsworth Robinson Greenewood c. as humane inventions forbidden in the second Commandement Images Will-worship Idol-prayers False-worship Lip-labour c. And you your selfe insist upon this principle of the Nonconformists as the cause of Separation from the Church of England that all formes of worship not prescribed of God are will-worship which if it maketh against one holdeth against all prescribed Liturgies Can. Neces of Separat pag. 114. Id. pag. 115. Againe you confesse that every Church is not to be forsaken or left which hath something in it by participation idolatrous And therefore our Service is not devised worship because it is taken out of the Masse-booke as you alledge but simply because it is devised whencesoever it had its originall if it be devised worship First therefore we must consider the matter in generall Oylsâ—hil speaking of Images brought into the Church saith Wee might justly condemn the whole faithlesse fond invention For it was but a will-worship a naughtie service having no ground of the Word of God and onely spring of errour Calf Preface to the Reader testifieth Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 297. That Princes may prescribe what faith they list what service of God they please what forme of administration of the Sacraments they thinke best is no part of our thought or point of our doctrine yet that Princes may by their lawes prescribe the right faith to bee preached the right service of God in spirit and truth to be used c. T. C. repl 1. pag. 8. Park of the Crosse par 1. ca. 4. sect 7. pag. 177. A. W. ans to late popish Artic. p. 73. and then try what is alledged against our booke of Common-prayer These words Formes of worship may be taken two wayes First to note the substantiall parts or meanes of worship and in this sense it is most true That all formes of worship not prescribed of God are unlawfull and false worship because devised by men Secondly To note a bare order methode or phrase wherein divine Service is performed And in this sense the Nonconformists never said That all formes of worship not prescribed are false or devised worship For they know that no forme is determined and prescribed of God precisely in all parts of his worship and where none is set apart by his Majestie it is a breach of his Commandement and devised worship to place an opinion of worship in the simple order or phrase of speech used in prayer or administration of holy things The Nonconformists condemne not a Liturgie or stinted forme of prayer but desire that all things therein might be ordered as doth tend most to edification Whatsoever exceptions they have taken against our Booke of Common-prayer they never disliked the use of it so far as they judged it sound and good They doe not condemne it wholly but finde fault with it as in some points disagreeing with the word of God What hath beene their seeking from time to time a razing of the Communion Booke No but a purging and filing of it after the patterne of that care which former examples set us The Booke of Common-prayer they condemne not as a wicked and ungodly Booke much lesse the Service as false devised and idolatrous but they have and doe use the booke and professe their readinesse so to doe onely they desire to
Dispute upon communicating at confused Communions affirming that the sitter is accessary to the sinne of the kneeler But he was no English-Nonconformist nor doth intreat of English conformitie And if there be any speciall reasons why presence should be accounted approbation with them in that particular it is no equitie his private opinion should be brought to the prejudice of them that maintaine another cause But as yet we cannot see either from Scripture grounds or Nonconformists principles that it is utterly unlawfull to be present at the worship of God in the administration whereof some superstitious rite is used or some fault committed Your long labour in setting downe the faults to be found in our Liturgie is to small purpose The Nonconformists doe except against many things appointed in the Booke as inconvenient at least and such as should be taken away or reformed as The reading of Apocryphall books under the title of holy Scripture specially such parts as be corrupt for matter The Crosse and Surplice as Idolothites by participation and signes of mysticall signification The corruptions in the translations and some things in the formes of Buriall Matrimony Thanksgiving for Women after child-bed c. But these they condemne not as Idolatry nor as that which maketh the worship it selfe m Magdeburg centu 2. ca. 2. col 109. A true Church as it containes the pure doctrine so also it keepes simplieitie of ceremonies but an hypocriticall Church as it departs from pure doctrine so for the most part it changeth augmenteth the ceremonies instituted of God and multiplieth its owne traditions c. Can. Stay pa. 123. false and idolatrous It is one thing to say such a rite is inconvenient superstitious scandalous borrowed from the Papists not warranted by the word of God in the use will-worship if the word be taken largely another that the worship it selfe is false and idolatrous Therefore I will not stand to examine the particulars therein but proceed to examine what you bring further to shew the necessitie of Separation SECT IV. HEre is a fit place to propound a Question or two First whether to hold teach and practise the errours and lyes contained in their Canons Service-booke Booke of Articles and the ordering of Bishops Priests and Deacons doe mak◠a false Prophet Secondly Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the maine truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church make a false Prophet Thirdly Whether it be lawfull to heare any false Prophet knowne so to be Qu In what ranke of Prophets unlawfull Ministers be and under what Scripture they are comprehended I would have a private Christian aske this Question of some learned Divine whom he knowes doth hold it lawfull to heare false Ministers And it is very likely he will answer him with deep silence There is one Question more viz. whether the Lords lawfull Priests which served at the Altar in Jerusalem might not as well urge their people to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel as the Ministers now under the Gospell to perswade men to heare in false Churches If is be not all one shew the difference ANSVVER TO your two last Questions answer hath been made divers times in sundry Treatises and in the first chapter of this present answer and you know the Scriptures plainly alledged to confirme what is said which you should have confuted if you had been able and not againe and againe to come over with the same thing If any learned Divine shall answer the demand with deep silence it may be because the partie demanding is uncapable of an answer not because there is any great difficultie in the matter It is a received Rule That the Accuser Plaintiffe and Affirmer should make proofe of what they say and if you erre your Questionist will affirme it is all one for the people of the Jewes to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel and the people in England to heare the word of God in our assemblies you must either bring good evidence for what you say or beare the brand of Slaunderers or false n Beza Epist 2. An enim obsecro aliter est de Sacramētis i. de doctrinae appendicibus quà m de ipsa doctrina judicandum At qui si nullam esse ecclesiā dicamus ubi nullus est prorsus in cunctis doctrinae Christianae dogmatibus naevus refellent nos Pauli Epistolae Corinthiacis et Galaticis Ecclesiis inscriptae c. Itaque ubi non satis pura est Ecclesiâ Ecclesia tamen est in qua salvum manet fundamentum ac multo magis ubi ritus Caenae Domini mutilus est Caena tamen est c. Accusers Is it sufficient thinke you to say If it be not so let them shew the contrary Your second Question will come to be handled in the next Chapter and there it shall be answered Your first Question onely which I scarce thinke another man would have asked pertaineth to this place wherunto I answer directly and plainly That a Minister of the Gospell may hold teach and practise according to the Book of Common Prayer Articles and Ordination and be a true Minister of Jesus Christ Nay he cannot truely hold and practice according to them but of necessitie he must be a true Minister in respect of his office and administration For the worship for substance there prescribed is of God the doctrine professed in respect of faith and Sacraments sound and true No errour either in speech hereticall or which doth tend to overthrow the foundation which is taught in them Suppose the seventie errours which o Can. Neces of Separat pag. 243 244 245. you reckon up were all true and justly taken against the Books and as many more to them might be named as it is not the number but the qualities of the errours which make a false Prophet false Church or false worship One fundamentall errour as the word is commonly used overthroweth the faith and twenty errours of inferiour alloy doe not much hurt the truth and soundnesse of faith The maine truths which concerne the very life and soule of Religion be p Vsher de success Eccl. cap. 1. few and the failings which may stand with the substance of Religion many Let it aske a better wit and head then ever Mr Dar. or your q Can. Neces of Separat pag. 185. selfe had to prove that there are halfe so many corruptions in the Religion professed by the English-Anabaptists adde if you please the Separatists Pelagians Arrians as are to be found in the English-Liturgie It will not be hard to prove that errours must be r The communion of the Catholique Church is not broken by the varietie of rites customes laws and fashions which many places and countries have different each from other except they be repugnant to faith or good manners August Epist 118. ad Ianuar. Euseb hist lib. 5. cap. 26. lib. 5. c. 23. Socrat. lib.
cast out the Heathen before them and caused them to fall to the lot of his inheritance and made the Tribes of Israel to dwell in their Tabernacles they tempted and provoked the most high God and kept not his testimonies but turned backe and dealt falsly like their Fathers they turned like a deceitfull Bow Israel then was a chosen people an holy nation Deut. 14.23 29 10 11 12. Rom. 3.2 9.4 Act. 3.25 Deut. 32.5 6. Isa 1.1 2 3 4.10 the peculiar people of God his treasure of delight or choice jewells a people in Covenant the children of the Prophets and of the Covenant and yet a stiffenecked people corrupters set on mischiefe foolish and unwise The Lord protesteth that Israel did rebell against him that they did not understand but were a most sinfull Nation ye◠〈…〉 and Gomorâ—ah yet he calleth them his people and 〈…〉 passing Socleome in iniquitie Ezek. 16.47 48 49.51 Lam. 4.6.22 Isa 5.1 2 3.5 Iere. 2.21 Ios 24.1.14 15.23 24 25. Iudg. 2.8.11 3.9.15 6.7 10.10.16.17 1 Sam. 7.2 3 4. 1 Chron. 13.2 c. 2 Chron. 15.12 2 Reg. 11.17 2 Chron. 25.16 2 Reg. 23.3 2 Chron. 34.31 Neh. 10.29 30. and yet the daughter of his people and the daughter of Zion his pleasans plant and a noble Vine We reade oftentimes that Israel after some grievous fall and requit renewed their covenant to walke with God and serve him onely and to obey his â—oyce 〈…〉 the dayes of Joshuâ— Judges Samuel David Aso Juâ—sh Josiah Nehemiâ—h c. But herein particular scrutinâ—e was not made what worke of grace God had wrought in the hearts of particular persons 〈◊〉 the confession of finne and profession of obedience was renewed And if the looke into the state of 〈…〉 all ages of that Church and particularly under these religioâ—s and godly Princes by whose authoritie the Covenant was renewed it will easily appeare many did but flatter with their â—ips neither was their heart stedfast in the covenant The Prophets every where cry out against the great iniquitie of the Princes Priests and people their idolatry injustice oppression contempt of the Word impenitency stâ—bornnesse so that it is superfluous diligence to referre to the severall passages which mention these things When John the Baptist began to preach the Gospell Matth. 3.5 6. and gather a new people for Christ he admitted none to Baptisme but upon confession of their sinnes which was both a renouncing of them and a promising of amendment of life But we finde not that he repulsed any that voluntarily submitted themselves nor tooke time for tryall whether they made nonfession in truth of heart or no. It appeareth many wayes that when the Apostles planted Churches Act. 2.38 8.37 19 17 18 19. the people whom they received did enter into Covenant with God But it is diligehtly to be observed whom they did receive upon confession of sinnes and profession of faith and whom they suffered after they were received Simon Magâ—s beleeved and was baptized Act. 8.13 1 Cor. 3.1 2 3. 15.10.11 c. Gal. 3.1 Phil. 2.21 Iude 12 verse Iac. 2.1 2 3. Rev. 2.14.20 c. who not long after offered money that he might obtaine the gifts of the holy Ghost In Corinth Galatina and other Churches many were admitted into the societie who in short time turned aside both in practice and opinion as to deny the resurrection and joyn the ceremonies of the Law with Christ in the point of justification and many other abuses which is a great presumption they gave no sure testimony of any sound worke of grace in their soules when first entertained into fellowship And though the Apostles required a confession of faith and profession of obedience of them that joyned in Christian societie yet they tollerated great abuses in private persons which they could not redresse For without question they condemned the having of many wives at once in all men but when that custome at least secret and indirect 1 Tim. 3.2.12 Tit. 1.6 Calvin in 1 Tim. 3.2 prevailed among the Jewes and Gentiles both in those times they give no p Dan. in loc Rivet cathol orthod tract 2. qu. 24. sect 6.7 Chrysost in epist 1. ad Tim. hom 10. in epist ad Tit. hom 2. Hieron in epist 1. ad Tim. ca. 3. cathar cathol advers error Cajet err 99. Jewel def of apel par 2. cap. 8. Div. 1. pag. 179. 1 Tim. 1.20 1 Cor. 5.7.13 Rev. 2.5.16 3.16 Commandement that each beleever having two wives should be cast out of the societie but onely that he should not be chosen into the place of a Bishop or Deacon Great and manifold abuses crept into the Churches even whilest the Apostles lived and shortly after they were planted and some of those were reprehended onely calling the Churches to reformation and amendment the grosse obstinate and most abhominable transgressors either they gave up to Satan or gave commandement to the Churches that they should cast them out but evermore with such mildnesse and moderation as it is most evident they forbore to plucke up the tares least they should plucke up the good corne also It is also manifest they threaten some Churches with Gods displeasure as that he would remove his Candlestick cast them into the bed of sicknesse spew them out of his mouth unlesse they repent but they dischurch them not because of the disorders committed by some tolerated by others nor yet did they command or counsell the godly in those societies to separate from the ordinances of Religion but to keep themselves pure The History of the Gospel in the New Testament containeth but a short time viz. from the time wherin John the Baptist began to preach to the end of the acts and writings of the Apostles which is not full fourscore yeares so that we cannot shew the repetition of the Covenant from time to time or what patience was shewed in tolerating abuses or when men were adjudged obstinate or what repentance and profession was required in generall abuses or revolts but by that which is said we may discerne who in phrase of Scripture are called Saints and holy faithfull and called and chosen even all and every member of the common-wealth of Israel and Christian Churches untill they were cut off or cast out though they lived not according to their profession but were stiffe-necked scandalous prophane The practice of the Church according to the example of the Apostles in q Concil Laodicen 14.46 Hilar. ad constant lib. 2. imperf I cannot receive any man but him that is willing I cannot give care but to him that entreateth a I cannot signe any but him that professeth Raban de instit cleric lib. 1. cap. 25.27 Justine Martyr apol 2. receiving Heathens and them that were without into societie was this First They were taught in the principles of Religion and then the doctrine of Christ being received profession made with promise
13.2 15.2 Col. 4.11 Iames 5.14 Epiphan haeres 27. Ignat. ad Tralleus Sozom. li. 4. ca. 14. Euseb hist lib. 6. cap. 10 11. Gr. ca. 9. lat Gratian. Decret part 2. cap 7. qu. 1. can 12. And it is to be remembred that in Rome Corinth Ephesus Philippi Colosse Thessalonica and such other Cities inhabited by Christians there were more Pastours than one which did in common governe all the Churches within that Citie and there was not any one Pastour who by himselfe governed a certaine part of the Citie peculiarly assigned to his charge Thus also the Ancients write that Peter and Paul were the first Bishops and Apostles at Rome Paul had Linus and Timothy Peter Clemens and Anacletus Liberius and Felix both governed the Apostolicall Seat Valerius and Augustine Narcissus and Alexander in the Church of Hippo. It is apparent the Apostles ordained many Overseers in one societie and it is not repugnant either to Scripture or reason to thinke there might be many Pastours of one flocke And the flocke might be one under the joynt care of many Shepheards Bilson perpet Gover ca. 10. pa. 155. Every church with them had many Prophets Pastours and Teachers the number and neede of the people and time so requiring T. C. repl l. pa. 34. though they did not ordinarily meete together in one place For to assemble together in one place is meerely accidentall to the unitie of a societie Certaine it is in times of persecution they cannot so meete and it is most probable in the Apostles times many Churches were too populous in that manner to assemble together Those that know the state of France in time of persecution doe well understand that every Church almost was gathered of Townes whereof some were six miles some seven some more from the place of meeting and keeping their Congregations And therefore could not meete so often nor know one another so well as we by the grace of God may doe Fourthly No one Pastour or Teacher hath the power of the censures belonging unto him and whether the power of dispensing the Seales belong to every Minister of the Gospell I leave it to your consideration for I know not what you will resolve but the actuall dispensation of the Seales may be forborne by some to whom the right of dispencing doth appertaine specially when there be others at hand to doe that office The Apostles had power to baptize 1 Cor. 1.14 15 16. Can. Neces of Separat pag. 236. but we may well thinke they did not ordinarily baptize themselves It is possible you say a man may be a true Ecclesiasticall Officer and yet never doe the services thereof Fifthly The Minister of the Gospell is not made absolutely a Minister by the choice or election of this or that people but onely their Minister for the time of his abode and continuance with them Lay these things together and then your exceptions against the office of Lecturers will vanish For if they have not the chiefe charge or cure of soules they be not sole Pastours or Teachers of the flocke but joyned in care or charge with others as Helpers or Assistants or chosen by the people to supply the want of such as should but doe not feed the flocke If they dispence not the Seales neither is that necessary in respect of their standing for right and power from Christ they have to dispence them but in the execution of that power they may be hindred or forbeare it for a time If they leave their place being lawfully called to another flocke it may be with consent of the societie and of the Church and what then doth make it unlawfull or if the charge should be unlawfull it doth not make the Ministery strange or new which is the thing in question SECT II. THat Ministery which is instituted and set up besides those which God hath appointed in his Word Neces of Separat pag. 51 52. is unlawfull and false But the Ministery of Lecturers in England is instituted and set beside these which God hath appointed in his Word Therefore that Ministery is unlawfull and false The proposition is plaine and undeniable and we have their owne words to confirme it For thus they say All the Ministery is by the Word of God and not left to the will of man to devise at their pleasure as appeareth by that which is noted of John where the Pharisees comming to him after that he had denied to be either Christ or Elias or another Prophet conclude if he be neither Christ nor Elias nor of the Prophets why baptizest thou Which had been no good argument if John might have been of other function than of those which were ordinary in the Church T. C. repl 1. pa. 62 63. and instituted of God c. Againe to devise another Ministery than that which God hath appointed is condemned by the second Commandement The Assumption is thus proved First if their Lecturers have taken ordination from the Bishops and exercise by that power onely then is their office false by the reasons before laid downe Secondly If it be objected that they never received the Prelates orders or have repented thereof I answer This proves not that they are therefore true Ministers For as Jehu though he did well to suppresse Ahabs idolatrie yet in that he followed the wayes of Jeroboam he himselfe continued still a grosse Idolater Even so howsoever some may privately report that they stand Ministers by no relation to the Bishops yet are they notwithstanding unlawfull Ministers seeing they were never elected chosen ordained according to Gods Word If any reply that they have their calling of the people I answer the thing is surely otherwise as shall be manifested presently But if this were granted yet I deny that any Church under heaven hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery and therefore if any people should doe it seeing it is against the Scripture it must needs follow that it is an unlawfull Ministery and so consequently not to be communicated with ANSVVER YOu are strangely taken with this note for you have brought nothing but a bare repetition of what you have said over and over If you speake of the substantiall and essentiall parts of the Ministery it is freely granted that the true Ministery is by the word of God and heavenly But if you extend it to every circumstantiall order whereby in this or that Societie the Minister is to execute the function he hath received of God it is not approved But of this you need not to have made so many words To your assumption answer hath been returned already First That the Ministers of the Gospell receive their office and authoritie neither from the Bishop Patron people or Colledge Ecclesiasticall but from Christ immediately whose servants they are in whose name they minister whose flocke they attend and who hath assigned them their worke And if you receive your Ministery from the people as
their servant from whom you derive your office and authoritie and from whom you receive your Commission your Ministery in that respect is no lesse false and antichristian than theirs that derive it from the Bishops Secondly If Lecturers have received ordination from the Bishops and be called and chosen by the people their calling is just and lawfull according to the rules of Scripture and their Ministery heavenly and from above if they preach the intire faith and feed the flocke of God For they preach the pure doctrine of salvation not by authoritie from men but by commission from the chiefe Shepheard and Bishop of our soules their calling may be justified by the Word and warrant of truth which shall stand for ever the more hainous and fearefull is your sinne in matching the Ministery of such men to the idolatry of Jehu Thirdly You are bold to affirme That no Church under Heaven hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery c. And it is true the Church hath no power to ordaine any Ministery for Christ is the Author and institutour of the Ministery for his Church But your meaning is That this kinde of Ministery is against the Scripture not ordained and then if we call for your proofe we have nothing here but I deny it Can. Neces of Separat pag. 217. You take up Mr Br. how well it becomes you let the Reader judge as a bold Sophister because he makes flat deniall of expressed truthes As thus I say it is false I deny it c. As if the weight of an argument were sufficiently removed by empty denials But when you should make proofe of what you affirme it sufficeth you to say I deny or this proves it not or I have proved from their writings when you have falfified them onely And if an empty deniall be not sufficient answer to an empty affirmation it is very strange Bilson Christ subject par 1. p. 41. I may justly say to you as Dr Bilson to the Papist whom he answered If great vaunts were sound proofes the victory were yours you have words and cracks at will they cost you nothing SECT III. THat it is so I prove it thus Neces of Separat pag. 53. That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give But none may lawfully bestow the Ministery of a Lecturer Therefore that Ministery is unlawlawfull The Assumption for shame cannot be denied if the nature of it be considered For as we but even now said their Lecturers take no charge of a flocke upon them they make covenant weâ—h the people but for a certaine time the peculiar worke of a Minister is not by the people laid upon them weither expected of them If any object that they preach the Word To this Dr Ames gives an answer fully that the preaching of the Gospell is not a worke peculiar to a Minister for such as are private men and out of office may and ought to preach the Word as occasion is offered and not onely privately but saith he in the publique Congregation c. ANSVVER VVE have here the same thing over againe and when all is said it is but this I deny it or I say it The assumption cannot for shame be denied The proposition rightly understood is true and sound but it may carry divers constructions As first the meaning may be That Ministery is for substance unlawfull which none may lawfully give to such or such persons scil to such as be unfit or prophane And in this sense the proposition is not sound For the Ministery is unlawfully committed to an ungodly man an hypocrite but the Ministery it selfe is heavenly and from above Or the sense may be That Ministery is unlawfull which men may not lawfully give virtually or formally And then it is weake For Pastours and Teachers are the gifts of Christ unto his Church from whom they receive their office and not from men Or it may beare this sense That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give in such forme and manner as it is executed And then it is lyable to exception For of right the power of administration of the Seales and Censures of the Church belong to the Pastours Teachers and Governours of the Church when in the execution of this office they may be hindred It is lawfull to be an assistant or helper to a Pastour for a time when it is not lawfull to give the office of Ministery to a man for a time onely and then to expire To the assumption The Lecturers of whom we speak have derived their office from the Lord Jesus Christ by the Ministery of his Church as instruments their entrance into it lawfull the service and worke it selfe holy the manner of performing it warrantable and the authoritie they have received the same which Christ hath communicated to the Ministers of the Gospell To publish the truth by way of instruction or exhortation is not peculiar to the Ministers of the Gospell but by authoritie 〈…〉 â—â—culiar to the Minister For the Scripture joyneth together the preaching of the Word and dispensation of the Seales as both belonging to the Officers Math. 28.19 1 Cor. 1. who have received commission from Jesus Christ And if private persons may preach the Word in this sense we see no reason why they may not administer the Sacraments likewise and so the Governours of the Church shall have power to doe nothing which every private member of the societie may not doe as well as they But Lecturers preach the Gospell by authoritie and as men set in office by the Lord of the harvest And this may suffice to shew the vanitie of such exceptions as are taken against our Church Ministery and worship to prove it to be no true Church worship and Ministery and how untruly and unjustly the Nonconformists are charged to lay the grounds of that 〈◊〉 and affected Separation which some have run into To examine what argument is returned to Dr Ames Mr Daw Mr Br is needlesse for nothing of weight is said against them but the same things vainly repeated with insolent scoffes and reproaches as if by evill speaking you hoped to get the victory It is to be observed generally you say Can. Neces of Separat pag. 211. that those which stand for bad causes doe after this sort still reproach the Adversaries Thus doe the Papists the Protestants so the Protestants the Puritanes and so they us as here and in other writings usually Now I would entreat you to review your two books and speake in good earnest whether in scoffing reproaching falsifications you doe not ordinarily exceed all men that ever you met withall Consider seriously and then let conscience be Judge whether it be the note of a good or evill cause c. FINIS A Table of some principall Points handled in this Treatise In the first Part. Concerning a false Ministerie and communicating therein p. 3 4. Nonconformists lay not the grounds