Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	bishop_n	hand_n	ordination_n	2,718	5	10.1610	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A57858	A just and modest reproof of a pamphlet called The Scotch Presbyterian eloquence	Rule, Gilbert, 1629?-1701.	1693 (1693)	Wing R2222; ESTC R25107	43,938	42

give a Character of the Presbyterian Ministers 5. When he hath a mind to expose any of our Ministers as absurd or ridiculous he is then pleased most disingenuously to advance him to be one of the most eminent among us that so he may make the World believe if their credulity be as large as his boldness in asserting that we are all such But this silly artifice will fail of its design among them who are acquainted with us He first accuseth them and that without exception as Proud Soure unconversible Here is not one true word where one is such among us and never a party consisted of all its individuals so well tempered as they should be many are such among his own party and yet we are far from being so unmanly as to make this the Character of the party I leave it to the Reader to judge what Humility or sweetness of mind our Author hath shewed in what he hath said or in what followeth That they have faces like their horrid Decree of Reprobation Where he venteth his spite against the truth of God as well as against the Men against whom he hath indignation Do not all the Reformed Divines except Arminians own a Decree of Reprobation yea doth not the Apostle so too Rom. 9. I wonder what a Face he thinketh the Apostle Paul had He and Presbyterians need not be ashamed to have their Pictures drawn and shewed with that of this Momus If a Presbyterian had spoken so ignorantly and indistinctly of such a head of Divinity how would he have accused them of Ignorance For who can own Election but they must at the same time acknowledge a preterition or Non-election and that as a positive Act of the Divine will See Rom. 9. 13. And who can say that some are Damned in time and yet this Damnation was not foreknown and foreappointed or decreed by him who worketh all things according to the Counsel of his own will If this Author will shew his Argumentative Talent as well as he hath that of Railing on this head it would be more easy to Answer him Their want of Humanity and common Civility and Catholick Charity are as many calumnies as words He asserteth I deny it and appeal to all that converse commonly among them But it is evident that what he asserteth of them he abundantly proveth of himself such Assertions being remote from all these vertues and good qualities That they dare not converse with them who differ from them lest the people take it ill is false They not only converse with them such of them as are Sober but have received some of them into a share of the Government of the Church And do not shun to converse with others of them as occasion requireth And if any people be displeased at this as I am sure the more intelligent are not they instruct them of the reasonableness of this practice His certainty that we have as little Learning as good nature which is next to none is a proof this Authors good Nature as many other passages of this Book are of his Learning about the measure I shall not determine seing it is easy for any unbyassed Reader to judge Presbyterians differing from all other Churches he boldly asserteth I deny not but there are some circumstantial things in which all the Churches in the World do differ one from another and our Church may be hath in some of the inferiour things her peculiar customs But in her Confession of Faith in her Government of the Church and in the worship of God it is evident that we are for the substance of these exactly one with the generality of the Reformed Churches And for the circumstances we are far nearer to the Reformed Churches than the Church of E. is which he gloryeth so much in and which indeed hath a Government Discipline and Worship widely different from the whole Reformed World yea on the matter they unchurch all other Churches by denying the validity of their Ordination and re-ordaining all who have not a Bishops hand laid on them We are far from carrying so toward Her or any other Church That which goeth for a proof of this absurd Assertion I shall now consider It is that we have banished the Lords Prayer the Creed and the ten Commandments the Doxology and the publick reading of the Scripture For the first of these It is false for we endeavour to make the people understand it And tell them the true use of it which is to direct them what to Pray for and also in most other things that concern Prayer It s true we do not commonly repeat the words of it but we neither condemn them who do it nor forbid to do it Our reason is There is no command for using these words nor do we find that the Apostles or the Church in their time did repeat the words Our reason for the other is these words are as fit to be used as any other It is false that the Author of the Answer to the ten Questions which he is pleased to ascribe to Dr. Rule on what grounds he best knoweth for it beareth no name used this as a reason against Repeating the Lords Prayer that it is inconvenient It is only said Quest 4 P. 20. That We are not tyed to what had been injoined if afterward it be found inconvenient while the discourse was of the use of the Doxology the Creed at Baptism and the Lord's Prayer now if any of these be inconvenient that Assertion is pertinent tho' the rest were not but were forborn on other grounds Yea If none of them were inconvenient what is said there is enough to free us from nonconformity to the Presbyterian Churches on this head with which that Antagonist chargeth us The words are plainly Hypothetick and therefore assert nothing Categorically Them who use the words of the Lord's Prayer we do not Judge either as acting against what is lawful or what is expedient If Mr. K. said that he forbore Repeating the Lord's Prayer because it is a Badge of the Episcopal Worship and did mean it was pressed in Scotland as such distinguishing mark perhaps it were not so absurd as our Author pretends though I had rather say we forbear it because it hath not now of a long time been the practice of the Presbyterian Church in Scotland and we know no Command or other Principle that maketh it necessary What followeth imputed to Mr. James Urquhart we reckon horrid Blasphemy And if any will make it appear that Mr. U. said such words he ought to be desposed or to make very solemn profession of his Repentance for this Scandal But Mr. U. denyeth it and biddeth defiance to any who will attempt to prove it against him the other Blasphemies to the same purpose which follow we abhore as much as he or any other can do And I affirm that it is the grossest of Falsehoods that it is ordinary to hear our People speak so for my part

of our Perswasion neither that Author nor I think it with our while to essay any thing farther for the sake of such a pitiful Pamphlets as this But if he will please to Answer what our Men have Written it is like what he bringeth may be considered It had been asserted by some of the Pamphleters Answered in the ●d Vind that in stead of 14 Bishops 60 were set up to Rule the Church And he is pleased to call the Answer to this Quibbles but thinketh not fit to give any return to what is said in disproving of that absurd Assertion And so the whole of it standeth in its intire strength only he affirmeth that all there said dependeth on this Supposition that the Parliament is the Church because that the Parliament put the Government into the hand of those 60. It is strange that this Writter will needs have the Presbyterian Ministers and Elders in Scotland when the Government was setled by Parliament to be but 60. Where in the Book he pretendeth to Answer it was told him that their Representative the General Assembly consisted of 116 Ministers and 47 Ruling Elders and nothing said to disprove it But some will keep to the Conclusion let the premisses be what they will We are far from making the Parliament the Church The Presbyterians had intrinsick Power to Govern the Church and what the Parliament did was no more but allowing the Exercise of this Power and adding their civil Sanction to it P. 82 P. 83. He is very Angry with an Assertion that We are for Moderation and on the contrary he bringeth a multitude of Accusations against us partly false and all of them abundantly answered as of old when things were recent so lately in the 1st and 2d Vind To which Answers he doth not pretend to Reply any thing but confidently repeateth the former Imputations It is in vain to debate with Men of this strain or to Answer what they say I have seen some Scolds so insist in spite of all Reason that could be brought against them But for Men pretending to Learning to use such a Method is not usual He speaketh P. 83. of an Answer given in 2d Vind P. 157 about a Protestation given by some Presbyters against the King and some Acts of Parliament I have lookt over that Page and some before and after it and can find no such Passage and therefore must leave it till he give us a more distinct Information about it He findeth as he fancieth a plain Contradiction That it is said ibid That the fatal Division about Protestation and Remonstrance was not so much as mentioned among us And yet it was moved that some of the Sentences of the Remonstrators should be taken off What was moved in the Assembly was That some Brethren had been deposed in the time of our late Differences and these Sentences were taken off by other Judicatories that this might be confirmed by the General Assembly which was done Is here any reviving of these Differences If he Childishly lay the Stress on the Word mentioning these Differences he may know that old Debates are said not to be mentioned when they are sopite not contended about nor do divide the Church into Factions though they be discoursed of as things that once had a Beeing He quarrelleth P. 84 with the Constitution of the General Assembly but will not be at the pains to Answer what hath been answered to either himself or some of his Brethren making the same objection in their former Pamphlets It was a General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church which had the ruling Power by Law as it always had a Right to it by the Gospel ●f he had proved that Fasting on the Lord's Day is making bold with it he had spoken somewhat to the next purpose he falleth on or that he could shew that Feasting is necessary on the Lord's Day otherwise what he bringeth is not ad rem What followeth P. 84 85. about Purging Work is a piece of Booff●nry and a taste of the Mans Spirit and Skill in Reasoning For what he addeth about Complyers with Episcopacy professing Repentance we do not controvert Only it is seen since that time that others have followed the Mans footsteps of whom he speaketh What remains of his Observations on that Book is partly about the Witnesses that are brought on both sides for the matters of Fact in Rabling It was alledged in the 2●d Vind. that the Witnesses to attest the Rablings were generally the persons Rabled We not only derogate from their Testimony on this account but we disprove what they affirm On the other side they are mostly other persons and if he can disprove what they testify we shall so far yeild to him For his Gentry or Ministers who are not parties in that particular we never rejected their Testimony except when he telleth us a Gentle Man or Credible person said so and so but we must not know who he is nor enquire whether he said it or not He next hath a long harangue to Ridicule Mr. Rule whom he will needs have to be the Author of that Book as commending himself and that pretty odly For his Vindication I recommend it to any who in this would be satisfied to Read the Book as to these passages Where he will find half Sentences or passages dismembered without the antecedentia consequentia to give the whole an odious aspect next that what was said whether by himself or another was se Defendendo Or in defence of a Brother who was in these things Reproached and through his side the Cause that he owned was exposed the Apostle Paul is a precedent in that Case si liceat magnis componere parva If the wrong numbering of the pages be taken notice of for the Readers better direction This cannot escape our Authors Critical Eye but must be placed among the Faults of the 2d Vindication When he begun his Censures on this Book he promised magno hiatu to find in every page Scurrilous Railing Vntruths Contradictions and Nonsense For the 1st and 3d he hath tryed his skill but I hope without success On the 2d head he hath said little but for the 4th tho' that be the Talent they confidently ascribe to all Presbyterians he hath not so much as attempted any thing It were well if this would make them more Modest in their Censures of us Mr. Meldrum is the next person he dealeth with whose letter annexed to the former Book containing a vindication of himself from the false aspersions cast on him in the Pamphlets this Author would fain say some thing against But findeth little matter for his Witt and Malice to work upon The 1st thing he quarrelleth is a Complaint that the Pamphlets which Reproach him are spread in England and hardly to be found in Scotland Which he excuses because they have not the Liberty of the Press nor importing such Books And that some of them were taken in Berwick A. These of