Scripture shew us any such office bring forth your proofe of it B. 'T is my part to answer your proofs Now you put on the Respondent the part of an Opponent Let them that have been bred in the Schools judge whether you do like a fair Disputant H. Our dispute is not an University Dispute but for the clearing of the truth to some Godly People B. Do you think the University Disputations which are the best in the world are not for the clearing of the Truth But what saith Mr. Tr. shall I propose my Argument to prove Diocesan Bishops by the Scripture Tr. You have liberty to propose your Argument and shew in what part of Scripture you can find the Office of any Diocesan Bishop B. I allege principally the Epistles of S. Paul to Timothy and Titus and particularly Tit. 1. 5. For this cause left I thee in Creet that thou shouldst set in order the things that are wanting and ordaine Elders in every City as I have appointed thee Out of which Text I will prove that Titus was a Bishop and Creet his Diocese and therefore here we have found the Diocesian Bishop But before I proceed let me aske you Gentlemen do you not put me upon this to ensnare me Do you mean no harm to me Tr. No I assure you wherefore in Gods Name speak freely B. I humbly thank you but first let me openly declare before all this Assembly that I have no mind to oppose any act of State nor will I meddle at all with the Lands and Lordships of Bishops only I plead for the Order and Function of Bishops I plead for the primitive Apostolicall Bishop and no other And that this Text is for me thus I prove He that hath a power to ordaine Elders and set things in order in the Church is a Bishop But Titus hath a power to ordaine Elders and to set things in order in a Church Therefore Titus is a Bishop H. But you must prove him to be a Diocesan Bishop B. So I do Creet was his Diocese the whole Iland was committed to his Goverment Diocese my friends is a Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to order and administer the affaires of Gods House signifying the territory or circuit of a Bishop So Creet may be well called the Diocese of Bishop Titus having under his inspection as t is plaine the Elders of the Cities there W. The Cities were not under Titus his Goverment he was not a Ruler of the Iland B. He was Ruler of all the Christians I mean onely them through all the Cities and Country Tr. But Titus was an Evangelist Therefore no Bishop B. I deny the Consequence He was an Evangelist while he went about Preaching and Planting the Gospell And he was the Bishop of Creet when he was fixed there by Paul to Ordaine Elders and put in order the things that were wanting H. We find Titus in other places beside Creet and Bishops of those times were not non-residents Therefore he was not Bishop of Creet B. Bishops may lawfully be and were antiently non-resident for some time to wit while they attend the business of Religion abroad and procured the greater good of the Church In which time of their absence their places are supplyed at home by their Deputies Tr. But Sir I pray consider Titus was an extraordinary Governor and therefore no Diocesan Bishop And you dispute fallaciously unless you put in the word Ordinary B. I say he was a Diocesan Bishop or if you will rather an Archbishop For I conceive the Elders of every City to have been Bishops and Overseers of severall Ministers and Congregations therefore he was an ordinary Governour Thus I argue He that ordaines Elders and orders the things in the Churches is an Ordinary But Titus ordaines Elders and orders things in the Churches Therefore Titus is an Ordinary Tr. But I mean he was called to that office in an extraordinary manner B. No neither He was called in the same manner as Timothy and others by Imposition of the Presbytery Therefore He was called in an Ordinary manner Col. A. Timothy was called saith Paul in another place by the laying on of his hands B. Noble Sir you say very true and the places are easily reconciled thus Divers Elders laid hands on Timothy among whom S. Paul probably was chief H. And was Paul too a Diocesan Bishop B. The Apostles common Diocese was the whole world which by agreement they divided among them and S. Paul was especially the Apostle of the Gentiles But in the Apostles I grant some things are extraordinary Tr. Pray make it out cleerely that Titus his case is not extraordinary otherwise you dispute fallaciously B. Truth needs no sophistry Thus I make it out The office that is to continue in the Church and to be succeeded in through following ages is no extraordinary office But this office of Titus is such Therefore c. H. What is it to continue to the worlds end B. Yes to the worlds end For it is Christs Promise I am with you alway even to the end of the world Mat. ult ult What say you to my argument Ordination and Jurisdiction are Offices or Powers needfull to the Church in all Ages This Office of Power or Titus was Ordination and Jurisdiction Therefore this Office of Titus is needfull to the Church in all Ages and therefore no extraordinary Office And my Brethren I would have you to know we are able to shew out of the best Records and Monuments of the Antient Church that there was a succession to the Apostolicall Bishops in these parts of their Office And the Catalogues of succeeding Bishops in severall Apostolicall Sees are yet extant And the Fathers and Councills and Ecclesiasticall Histories come in here with undeniable evidence that Diocesan Bishops are successors of the Apostles in the Government of Churches H. See godly Brethren the subtilty of this man He will not contain himself within the Holy Scripture but tells us of Fathers and Ecclesiasticall Stories and human Authorities B. Who succeeded in the government of Churches after the Apostles we must learn out of the writings of the next Ages And I tell you not only Fathers and Church-story but all other good learning is requisite in a compleat Divine Mark this you bold unlearned new-speakers and expounders of Scripture Mark it and remember it well And for the question of Church-government especially it is impossible to find a better way to understand the Scripture than by the practice of the primitive times of the Christian Church H. Expound Scripture by the practice of the primitive Church Do ye heare him brethren as if Scripture needed the help of the Church We thought we should finde him enclining to Popery B. I detest all Popery charge me not so ignorantly Upon my life I will make it good by the judgment of the most learned and sound Protestants that the practice of the primitive Church is a great light to
invested with the ordinary lasting power of ordaining Elders of binding and loosing and of setting things in order herein who were their Successors you may see if you will inform your selves in the book of binding and loosing and in the Latin dissertations against Blondellus Pray take it not ill that we often assert this it is of such concernence that with this truth the Ministers of England must either stand or fall We speak not for Bishops to be Lords of Lands but Fathers of the Church You must all mark that Tr. The differonce 'twixt us appears plainly you are for Bishops which you call the Primitive Apostolical Bishops and in them you place the power which Christ hath left to his Church We are for the Bodies of Congregations which we say are under no superiors neither Bishops nor Presbyters but absolute and independent in respect of man and immediatly under Jesus Christ Col. A. Bishops and Presbyters are all one in the New Testament namely Acts 20. 17. Paul sent to Ephesus and called the Elders of the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and v. 28. the holy Ghost hath made you overseers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Therefore Presbyters and Bishops are all one P. Noble Sir I answer Bishops in the new Testament are also called Presbyters but they are more than those we now call Presbyters who are to be ordained and governed by the Bishops Any Presbyter may be called Bishop or Overseer of his own Parish but those we eminently stile Bishops now who are Bishops or Overseers and Rulers of those Parish Bishops or Presbyters The Presbyters St. Paul sent for from Ephesus were properly Bishops Tr. No Hear my Argument The Church of Ephesus was but one Congregation I prove it out of Eph. 2. the two last verses In whom Jesus Christ all the building fitly framed together c. A building fitly framed together is but one Congregation But the Church of Ephesus was a building fitly framed together Therefore c. B. To the Major Not only one single Congregation but many united under one Bishop may be so called And that Ephesus was not a single Independent Congregation but a Metropolitical Church you may learn of the most Reverend Primate Dr. Usher a man I think of great Authority among you also as among all Scholars most justly I refer you to his Geographical Tract of the Asian Diocese Tr. Return to the Text Mat. 18. v. 19. I shall prove it undeniably that a single Church hath an independent power But first will you grant me that two or three may be taken for a small Congregation B. Yes I desire to grant you all I can without injury to the Truth Tr. Then thus I argue Where is the Duty and the Blessing there is the Power But in a small Congregation where two or three c. is both the duty and the Blessing Therefore there is also the Power namely of Excommunication B. Where is the duty c. You leave out a very necessary word Independent For supposing that a power of Excommunication were in a particular Congregation I cannot grant it is there independently but there may be an Appeal But did you ever hear of an Indepent Church of two or three Tr. Yes there may be a Church of so few and that independent B. A private Church I grant not a publick enabled with power of Excommunication a power supreme Lo you here is Popery in a little volume an independent absolute supreme Church made up of two or three H. Did you not grant to Mr. Tr. that two or three may be taken for any small number now you recall your words You know if there be twenty in a company we sometimes say there be two or three B. No indeed that 's too far wide Let the people judge of this whether any will say there be two or three if there be twenty persons met in a room Two or three that is twenty silence I pray But Sir the words of Christ are verified if there be but barely two And therefore I may justly think it too small a number to make the Church mentioned v 17. It cannot be for this reason The Church in the 17. v. is of more authority and more in number than the two or three mentioned in the second admonition v. 16. But two or three v. 19 20. are not of more authority nor more in number than the two or three mentioned v. 16. Therefore the two or three v. 19 20. are not the Church mentioned v. 17. Answer this and you shall hold your Supremacy to the worlds end for me H. You hold an Appeal from the Church to the Civil Power which is plain Erastianism B. Erastianisme I shall make it appear to be Christianisme But what was Erastus pray H. I came not here to be Catechized by you B. Erastus was one that denied the power of Excommunication in the Church which I do not but desire it may come into practice upon true Rules If you would know Erastus see the Book of Binding and loosing at large And noble Sir you that are a Civil Magistrate let me call you to witness that I stand here an Advocate truly to plead for the Supreme authority of this Land and I undertake to shew that the Highest powers in the Commonwealth have also the Highest Rule of the Church and may receive Appeals from any Christians that complain of wrong in any Congregation whatsoever Col. A. The Highest Powers haply doubt of that Authority and forbear to execute any such till they be more fully satisfied B. Were I worthy I would request them to know their power and use it for the restitution of Primitive Episcopacy They doubt you say but Sir these men flatly deny that authority of the Civil Magistrate in matters of Religion H. And how I pray do you prove it B. Let every soul be subject to the Higher Powers Every man saith St. Chrysostome whether Lay or Clergy Col. A. There is no such distinction of Lay and Clergy in the Scripture All the Lords people are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his Portion B. Sir you say most true that All the Lords people are his Portion that is as selected and called out of the World but his Ministers are more peculiarly his as called from among his People and admitted nearer to him being separated for the Ministration of Holy things But however all sorts of men I say whether Ministers or others must be subject to the Highest powers Tr. Yea in Civil things they must be subject not in Ecclesiastical The Powers are distinct B. They are distinct in their Objects or Matters about which they are exercised they are united in the same Subjects or Persons that are supreme in all causes both Eccleclesiasticall and Civill W. You were wont to pray for the King in that stile B. Yes when the King was and now they that have the Kingly power may withall assume the same title if they please W. By no means
THE WINCHCOMB PAPERS REVIVED Wherein are contained some particulars concerning The Government of the Church Liturgy and Forms of Prayer Ordination and power of Ministers Administration of the Sacrament c. For the use of dissenting Brethren Veritati paci LONDON For John Barksdale Newstreet Five Bells 1675. S. Augustinus de fide oper c. 5. tom 4. p. 13. Cum sive per negligentiam praepositorum sive per aliquam excusabilem necessitatem sive per occultas obreptiones invenimus in ecclesia malos quos ecclesiasticâ disciplinâ corrigere aut coërcere non possumus tunc non ascendat in cor nostrum impia ac perniciosa praesumptio quâ existimemus nos ab his esse separandos ut peccatis eorum non inquinemur atque ita post nos trahere conemur veluti mundos sanctosque discipulos ab unitatis compage quasi à malorum consortio segregatos Veniant in mentem illae descripturis similitudines divina oracula vel certissima exempla quibus demonstratum pronuntiatum est malos in ecclesia permixtos bonis usque in finem seculi tempusque judicii futuros nihil bonis in unitate ac participatione Sacramentorum qui eorum factis non consenserint obfuturos The Review THat which at first gave life to the following Papers is the cause also why they are now revived namely the consideration of many evils done to the Church of England by the over-busie actings of some men that stile them selves Pastors of Gathered Churches who while they gather a few scatter many There is a short but sad complaint which I have lately seen written in the name of many thousands of this Country to this effect 1 That in severall great Parishes Market Towns and other Ministers are placed who own but a very few as Members of their Church and preach judgement to the rest and deprive them and their children of the Sacraments and other Ministerial Offices yet receive the profits and account them but as Heathens except they will enter into their private Covenant 2 That the said Preachers wander abroad with their Disciples after them invade other mens parishes distract the people and alienate their mindes from their lawful Pastors 3 That they spread under pretence of preaching Christ very dangerous opinions against parish-Churches and parish-Ministers and against that order and Goverment that ought to be restored to the Church of God 4 That the said preachers pretend to be the men by whose favour or disfavour other Ministers must stand or fall Whose Ordination they call Antichristian and have a designe to plant their illiterate followers whom they exercise to that end in their places These and the like grievances we hope Authority will in time redresse In the mean time it is the duty of Ministers that are left of the old stock to teach the truth and warn the people of these errors To which purpose the following Papers are not of no use In the Review whereof we see the substance of them may be referred chiefly to these Heads Of Church Government Publick Prayers The Ministry Communion And of these we shall note something in relation to the printed Papers 1. For Church-Government I cannot blame the Respondent who had lived under the form of Episcopacy to own that ancient way He denies it not to have been subject unto faults and errors by the miscarriage of persons employed whose faults if they shoud be charged likewise upon other Governments no form neither Civil nor Ecclesiastical would be of any long continuance I suppose it were a good Reformation to make some amendment in the Ecclesiastical Lawes as about the abilities required in persons to be Ordained c. and to bring up the practice of the Church to the Laws That Episcopacy is not to be cast off we the Ancients Ignatius and little reading in are verily perswaded by our other and by what we find in our own best Reformed Divines No more need here be named but Zanchy from beyond sea and Bishop Davenant at home whose words you have in the Testimonies Bishop Davenant a man worthily much esteemed by all parties saith that among many Presbyters that administer the Word and Sacraments in some one City there was one by the Apostles themselves set over the rest and indowed with a certain singular dignity and power And it is manifest these Bishops thus establisht by the Apostles authority had their successions in the same Cities by a continual order And Zanchy saith That in the Protestant Churches are not wanting Bishops and Archbishops indeed and in effect But the good Greek names being changed into bad Latin they call them Superintendents and general Superintendents And where these names are not yet there are wont to be some prime men who have almost all the Authority And why should we contend about names when we agree about the thing I will onely adde upon this first Head what I hear is not displeasing to the Presbyterians I wish it may not be to the Independents whose chief Argument from Mat. 18. for the power of the Congregation is answered by considering that matters seem to be referred to the people because they passed at their assemblies though under censure of Bishops and Presbyters See page 112. Namely the judgment of that most Reverend and learned Primate Dr. Vsher now with God who in four Articles lately printed hath reduced Episcopacy to the form of Synodical Government The summe is this 1 That in every parish the Rector with the Church-wardens note the scandalous and admonish them 2. That they present the obstinate to the monthly rural Synod consisting of the Rectors of that part assembled under the Suffragan there to be censured 3. That the Acts of the monthly Synods be revised once or twice a year by the Diocesan Synod consisting of all the suffragans and some choice Rectors assembled under the Bishop 4. That further Appeal may be made in case of grievances to the Provincial Synods c. This is a way of conjoyning Episcopal government and Presbyterial into one which might happily content all sober Christians so as Church-affairs should be managed to borrow words from the royal pen neither with tyranny impurity nor popularity neither Bishops ejected nor Presbyters despised nor people oppressed Whom God hath joyned together let no man put asunder So much of the first Head 2. For Publick prayers I see no cause to dislike that which is among the following testimonies cited out of Mr. Calvin's Epistle to the Lord Protector wherein he saith I very much approve a certain form of prayers from which it may not be lawful for the Pastors in their function to depart for these reasons that help may be given to the unskilfulnesse of some that the consent of all the Churches may appear that the levity and uncertainty of some men alwaies â—ffecting novelties may be regulated and restrained Yet neither doth Calvin here nor do any of us deny a grave modest
friend The Answer returned Junii 5. WOrthy Sir Although my Letter written as I conceive on a very just occasion and in a friendly manner to Mr. Helm be not yet vouchsafed any answer yet have I this fruit of it that you upon sight thereof have been pleased thus far to shew your love to the Writer as to give me your Advice Advice led in by so favourable an elogy of your undeserving friend that were the Admonition sharper than any point of my letter yet should I think my self bound to take it well Monere Moneri you know the rest I do not only not take it ill but heartily thank you for it and will obey it preferring your judgment herein before mine own For truly when I consult with my self give me an ingenuous liberty to speak a little boldly with you I can see no cause but I may write more such letters That letter hath two parts one defensive of many Ministers for their life and learning well approved the other admonitory desiring a revisall of some points deliverd by that Preacher my friend In the Defense I have certainly said somewhat that cannot be refuted by silence nor as I think by words And in my Admonition I have touched that which ought to be retracted or at least excused Why am I not answered by letter if I am wrong to be reduced or informed if I am right to be confirmed To give no Answer in such a case I confess I cannot reconcile with the Rules of humanity which I have learned and which I did believe my friend would not transgress The true use of a letter is thereby to understand the writers mind and so to give him answer what other use may be made of it as you say truly I know not but I esteem it not worthy to be seen by Superiours against whose command I am so far from contending that I will not publickly condemn what they publickly commend But to speak to your second it hath been esteemed heretofore very conscientious to contend against some things tolerated by the Magistrate So did many zealous Preachers contend against sports on the Lords day tolerated once and so do some still contend against Usury tolerated yet And for Forms and Discipline the Old way you know was preached down when the Laws and Magistrates did endeavour to uphold it These preachers I cannot defend but would say something for them if it had been a Form tolerated only and not establisht For we look upon a Form tolerated as a thing not approved by the State but winked at for a time and dispenst with to content a party or side A Form tolerated is at most but for triall and so long as it is put to the triall it may be contended against not by force but by argument and disswasion Nor is this to oppose the State or cross their Intention for til they declare their Mind it is presumption in a private man to intrude into their Counsells And therefore while things are under Consultation as now it cannot be justly called opposition of the Magistrate if one dispute in a familiar letter against that which they tolerate Nay the liberty of familiar letters you know is of greater extent For my part there is none gives more to the Magistrate in matters of Religion that I do none is more ready to submit to laws in all things not cleerly contrary to the Highest Law And for the present Toleration although I think I may safely take the liberty is not this also a part of the Toleration to discourse of such matters either by letter or otherwise yet I will obey your Advice as I said and I cannot chuse but commend your Moderation in not judging any man scandalous for not being of your Form Though out of Form I am really Sir your Servant in Christ Another to the same not long aster GOod Sir Having not the leasure at present to attend you at Stow I send my letter to to salute you and your good company I have considered upon your Argument yesterday taking advantage from the rubric in our Service-Book That Catechizing and Confirmation must go before the Sacrament of of the Lords Supper Therefore your New Covenant The Antecedent is in the rubric after the Form of Confirmation And I cannot defend the former neglect of Confirmation in the Bishop nor any present neglect of Catechizing by any Minister But seeing there is now none of that Confirmation to be had a great want in the Church I think what if the Minister do his part in instructing people in the Catechism and the people not only make Confession of Faith but profess Repentance Charity Obedience nor hath the Minister any assurance no nor just ground of suspicion that they are not sincere shall he not admit them to the Lords Table I would not presume to condemn all the pious and learned Ministers of the Church of England that have administred the Sacrament upon such tearms When we cannot have all done we would we must be content with what can be done as the case standeth Well Confirmation I grant is commanded as convenient and profitable not so necessary but that in case it be wanting the Sacrament may be administred Now to the sequel How your Covenant can serve in place of Confirmation I do not yet understand It consisteth only of the Confession resolution and promise of the Covenanters whereas Confirmation or laying on of hands is an act of the Bishop to certify the person confirmed of Gods favour and gracious goodness towards him and it is joyned with prayer and benediction wherwith the party is thought to be strengthned and encreas'd in grace Your Covenant I grant is somewhat like the Answer in our Catechism where the Catechized undertaketh the Baptismall vow made in his name and promiseth by Gods help to perform it And surely that is done by all that come with us to the Lords Table And approaching to it in the quality of such as repent them truly of all their sins are in charity with their neighbours and intend to lead a new life they do renew their Covenant and in taking the Sacrament have the seal thereof as t is very requisite nor do I yet see how Ministers can refuse to give it Sir shall I be bold in secret to ask you what great deliverance is the ground of your Covenant I doubt of it because upon the late deliverance from the Scotish Invasion all hopes were cut off of reforming this Church according to the pattern of Scotland which unless I am deceived was one end of the Scotish Covenant receiv'd in England I deny not great Deliverances but I take advantage from the Scots Covenant and say that the Friends thereof instead of Deliverance have had a totall overthrow Give me a little light in this and reconcile the Covenants in the religious part of them for I meddle not with temporals That which you said as I take it of peoples having
call the place so B. I deny that proposition prove it W. The People of God are alone his House God dwells in the Hearts of his Saints B. I Answer the House of God is either the Spiritual House or the Material House The Hearts of his Elect People are the Spiritual House wherein it pleaseth God to dwell and reside This place built by our pious Ancestors and separated from other uses to his Honour and Service may without offence be called his Material House W. This House was not built for the Honour and Service of God B. I expect your proof of that Proposition W. Thus The House built in the reign of Popery and for the Honour and Adoration of Saints was not built for the honour and Service of God But this House was built in the reign of Popery and for the Honour and Adoration of Saints Therefore this House was not built for the Honour and Service of God B. I repeat The House built c. And I answer to the major by distinguishing of the end for which the House was built The End is either principal or less principal This House was built for the Honour and service of God as the principal End it was built for the Honour and Adoration of Saints as the less principal End In the Reformation of Religion our Church reteined the first End and rectifyed the second Honouring the Saints with a pious Memory not Adoring them with divine Worship Hear the Church her self speak in her excellent Liturgy W. H. Away with it we will hear none of your Liturgy and old Forms B. But I must clear the Church from all suspicion of Adoring the Saints and make the Truth evident out of the Collect for All-Saints day and 't is worthy to be heard of All Almighty God which hast knit together thy elect in one Communion and fellowship in the mystical body of thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord grant us grace so to follow thy holy Saints in all vertuous and Godly living that we may come to those unspeakable joys which thou hast prepared for them that unfeignedly love thee through Jesus Christ our Lord Amen I beseech you All to take notice that our Church is free from that superstition or whatever it be called wherewith the Church of Rome is justly charged The Saints are in our Prayers for imitation not for adoration Our Houses therefore being truly built at first for God's Service and now used by us for the right end the setting apart of such places for divine Worship makes them relatively holy and gives God a peculiar Title to them and he owns them for his My House shall be called a House of prayer W. Your own House may be as well used so and called Gods House and a holy place B. No Though God may be served in every place and I serve him dayly in my own house yet the publick place separated for his service I say becomes his by a peculiar right All the world is his but our Churches are his to a singular and holy purpose by a singular dedication As he hath his Day so also a place for his Worship both Holy Keep ye my Sabbath and reverence my Sanctuary For your satisfaction see Mr. Mede's Divine Treatise upon Hallowed be thy name and his letter to D. Twiss Now let us Hoc agere and come to the business of the day H. To the Question of the day my first Argument is this That it is not lawfull to administer the Sacrament in your Parish-Churches thus I prove If you have not a true calling in your Church of England then it is not lawfull for you to administer the Sacrament in your Parish-Churches But you have not a true Calling in your Church of England Therefore it is not lawfull for you to minister the Sacrament in your Parish-Churches B. I repeat If we have not c. I deny your minor and affirm we have a true calling in our Church of England H. If in your calling by the Bishops you are engaged to superstitious and unlawful practices then your calling in the Church of England is not a true Calling but in your calling by the Bishops you are engaged to superstitious and unlawful practices Therefore your Calling in the Church of England is not a true Calling B. I deny your minor and affirme we are not engaged to any superstitious and unlawfull practices is our Calling by the Bishops H. The keeping of Holy-dayes I do not mean Holy-dayes upon occasion as our Thanksgiving dayes but your set holy-dayes the keeping of your holy-dayes is an unlawfull practice But in your Calling by the Bishops you are ingaged to the keeping of Holy-dayes Therefore in the Calling by the Bishops you are ingaged to unlawfull practices B. I deny your major and affirm that the keeping of our holy-dayes is not an unlawfull practice H. A practice against Gods command is an unlawfull practice But your practice is against Gods command Therfore your practice is an unlawfull practice B. Not against God's command how prove you that H. My text is in 20. Exod. where you shall find it a part of the fourth Commandement Six dayes shalt thou labour and do all that thou hast to do Therefore it is against Gods command to keep any one of the six dayes holy B. I answer two wayes 1. By retortion 2. By interpretation 1. By retortion I say your Argument rebounds upon your self and condemnes your own practice and that Text in your sense that we are commanded to labour six dayes takes away as well occasionall holy-dayes as set and recurrent For our Thanksgiving dayes are not dayes of labour 2. By interpretation the words you urge are not preceptive but permissive God requires one day in seven and allowes us six not denying us the liberty if we be so devout as to consecrate some part of them also to his publick Service The Jewes had among their holy-dayes the feast of Dedication of human Institution which yet we read that Christ himself observed H. Worship not instituted by God is unlawfull Worship But your Holy-dayes are a Worship not instituted by God but by human authority therefore your holy-dayes are unlawfull Worship B. I answer to the minor and say that our holy-dayes are not the Worship it self but a circumstance of the Worship and circumstances of Gods Worship may be ordained lawfully by men H. Well your calling by the Bishops however is not lawfull and thus I prove it If the Scripture allowes of no Diocesan Bishops then your calling by the Bishops is not lawfull But the Scripture allowes of no Diocesan Bishops Therefore c. B. I deny your minor and affirme the Scripture does allow Diocesan Bishops H. There is not so much as the name of a Diocesan Bishop in all the Scripture B. But there is more than the Name there is the Thing there is the Office The word Trinity is not in the Scripture yet we Believe the Trinity H. Where doth the
Scripture But this requires the searching of Books which at your lesure I should be glad to shew you W. Protestants Whom do you mean by Protestants B. I mean those that protest against the Errors Innovations of the Roman Church in latter times and endeavour to reform Religion according to the Scripture and the primitive pattern H. You see he takes in the practice of the Primitive Church again B. I do and must and thus I argue That Government which in the primitive Ages took place in the Churches planted by the Apostles is the Apostolicall and Scripture Government But the Government of Diocesan Bishops took place in the Churches planted by the Apostles Therefore the Government of the Diocesan Bishops is the Apostolicall and Scripture Government Now let me see who will answer me W. Antichrist Antichrist was working betimes B. Whether it be Antichristianism to establish or to over throw the Function of Bishops let all considering men judge by the Premises W. But why do you take in any thing else with Scripture as if that alone were not sufficient for us H. Yea Scripture Scripture we are contented with Scripture B. Give me leave to explain my self to All and I entreat you Harken The Scriptures perfection I do thankfully acknowledge but the things conteined in the Scripture are some of them conteined in it plainly and expresly to be apprehended by every Reader other things are conteined there implicitely virtually and so as there is need of many helps to make our deductions thence And for the Scripture-government I know no better light to shew it than the practice of the Antient Church I argue thus They that have commended to us the very Books of Scripture are fittest to give us the sense of them especially in point of Government But the Antient Church hath commended to us the very books of Scripture Therefore the Antient Church is fittest to give us the sense c. And I pray Mr. W. how will you prove that the Scripture is the Word of God W. I know it by the Testimony of the Holy Spirit in me B. But how will you convince another that will not believe your Spirit that the Scripture is divine Here you may make very good use of the Testimony of the next Ages that received it from the Apostles and gave it down to their Followers W. and H. Popery to depend upon the Testimony of the Church To. Since you are many at once upon one which is not fair give me leave to put in sometimes in behalf and for the case of the Respondent We say we depend upon the testimony of the Antient Church not of the now Roman Church The Roman Church is a very corrupt Church the Primitive times were far more pure W. What do you talk of Purity after the Apostles times Did not many Heresies creep in To. By this Argument you will condemn the Apostles times also for even then were not wanting Schismes and Heresies B. Will you leave this as it is and proceed to some farther Argument and come close to the business of the Sacrament I say it is lawfull for me to Minister the Sacrament in the Congregation at Sudeley H. Thus I proceed to shew that your calling is null therefore you cannot Minister Ministers that Prophane the holy things of the Lord their calling is null But many Parish Ministers prophane the holy things of the Lord Therefore their Calling is null B. You should say All Parish Ministers for you hold it is not lawful to Minister in any mixt Congregation and such you say are all Parish Churches But say neither All nor Many but apply the minor to me whom you have publikely in your Sermons condemned before you used the Christian wayes of more private Admonition and then I deny both your premises both Major and Minor both are false and Scandalous Neither doth the prophaning of Holy things null the Ministers calling nor have I prophaned the Holy things in the said Ministery H. First then I prove the major fully you that have Bibles Brethren pray turn to the places Ezek. 22. 26. 44. 13. B. What prove you thence H. That prophaning the Holy things nulls the Priesthood for they shall be no Priests unto me saith the Lord. B. I answer to the Text by distinguishing between the Order of a Priest and the Office of a Priest They shall be no Priests unto me here is a suspension from the Office and work of the Priests no nulling of the Priesthood it self W. Then it seems by you They were Priests and no Priests God saith They shall not you say they shall remain Priests To. He hath shewed you how They were Priests and no Priests in divers respects They were still of the Order and race of Priests they were not to officiate any more in the Priestly office God would not accept them he saith They shall be no Priests unto me Yet who knoweth but upon their repentance God might readmit them not by a new Consecration but by Absolution And so Ministers when they are restored after suspension are not new Ordained but only the Censures taken off Tr. Well you grant at last a removall and suspension from the office though the calling be not nulled And so you will confess you deserve to be removed from Officiating if you prophane the Holy Things of the Lord. B. I will grant that a Minister if he be so prophane ought not to officiate but I think the proceedings against a Minister must be tender and wary Receive not an accusation against an Elder without two or three witnesses Conviction must go before Censure and upon Repentance restauration followes And I refuse not to be so dealt with Tr. Proceed therefore and prove your minor that he doth prophane the holy things of the Lord. H. They that administer the Sacrament promiscuously to All do prophane But you so administer Therefore c. B. Your minor's false and Scandalous The Congregation of my hearers I will confess is mixt not so the Company of my Communicants Understand what my practice is After divers preparations when the Sacrament is to be administred I proclame All that are not prepared Depart You that are prepared Stay These after the departure of the rest I look upon as prepared in some measure and so I go on H. If you do administer the Sacrament to the unregenerate Tr. No no say thus to the ignorant and Prophane H. You Minister the Holy Sacrament to the ignorant and prophane B. You do well to prompt one another Prove it Or if you please I answer persons may be ignorant and prophane either in the eye of God that searcheth the secrets of the heart or in the eye of the Church that looks upon the outward appearance In the former sense some of us may be such we are not so in the latter Tr. Pray Mr. B. let me ask you Do you know every one that you Minister the Sacrament to B. I will give you
an ingenuous answer I do not know every one Tr. O! how can you justify your self in this W. Why here 's a confession of the fault we lay to your charge you give the Sacrament you know not to whom We have done now H. We thank the Lord Brethren that the good work is so happily brought to a conclusion this day You hear what he confesseth he doth not know some of them who they are and yet he should know them to be visible Saints A good Shepheard knows his flock B. Hold a little my Masters and take me with you Have patience while I give in my Answer I do not know them and yet I do know them I know them not some of them by name I have no familiar acquaintance with them I do not know them in civil relations but I do know them and own them in a religious relation I know no hurt by them Tr. You Know no hurt by them Alas Alas poor creatures B. Hear me out I do not only know no hurt by them but I know much good by them their visible and cheerful profession of the true Christian Faith their reverent behaviour at their Prayers their humble Confession of Sins earnest desires of pardon hearty promises of new obedience An appearance of Faith and Repentance joyned with Charity and thankfulness satisfies me very well for the time till I find they do deceive me H. You are deceived with too good an opinion of them If I durst I could say somewhat against some particulars B. God forbid you should have hurt for telling any one a necessary truth For my part I think and hope the best of all that promise fair I Judge according to charity I know one may act the Saint to day and the Devil to morrow Let me tell you 't is the judgement of our Church after the Fathers that Christ delivered the Sacrament to Judas also who went out immediatly after to betray him and before that was discovered by his Master to be a Devill You will not grant this however you know Peter himself that was so zealous upon triall the very next day denied his Master yea denied him with cursing and swearing All the rest forsook him and fled Their strength was little and their knowledge was less witness the Disciples going to Emaus fools and slow of heart and the question proposed about the Kingdom Acts 1. What is the lowest measure of grace I will not determine Where I see any hopes or weak beginnings of Christianity I embrace and cherish them In the School of Christ there be many little ones that must be gently used and there be some great ones that must not be offended but upon great reasons Why should I not think better of others than my self when the B. Apostle calls himself the chiefest of sinners and less than the least of Saints He that hath beams to cast out of his own eve must not be picking motes out of his Brothers eye 'T is true the Brother must be admonished especially by the Minister but this must be done discreetly and orderly and with meekness of spirit He that obeys one or a few scapes the censure of the Many and may not be reckoned as an alien None is so but he that proves obstinate after the methods of Counsel and Reproof And verily Mr. H. it had been a good method for you to have admonisht me and the rest of the Congregation whom you are offended with and to have received our Answer before you condemn'd us in your Pulpit And that Answer will serve now In what we have offended God we ask his pardon In what we have offended you we will give you satisfaction Thus doing we shall not be excluded from Communion by any just sentence H. You have some that might be named that both before and after the Communion have shewed themselves no sober men B. That may be and I shall desire to be informed of them that I may labour to reform them or exclude them if they be proved open and notorious evill livers And I do often commend and endeavour to bring into better practice the Duty of fraternall Admonition and Correption which is now the more necessary because we want publick Discipline see D. Hammond of Fraternall Admonition Having declared my self thus I must conclude your Argument against my Communicants till you prove your Accusation better to be only an Argument of your own uncharitableness H. I cannot yet allow of your Call to Minister For Ministers truly called are appointed and ordained by the Godly people But you are not so appointed Therefore B. You will I hope hereafter allow me equall liberty to oppose your Orders I have mine from a Bishop assisted by his Presbyters according to Apostolicall Institution and the constant practice of the Church The People cannot confer on us our power They may approve and assent to our Calling and give testimony of our good conversation and receive us when we are sent unto them I am owned as a Rector of the People to whom I Minister W. We are servants of Gods people Paul I am sure saith so of himself B. He saith so and so doe I their servant for Jesus sake Let them acknowledge us their spirituall Rulers and Fathers in Christ and we will in all humble condescension be their Servants for Jesus sake Jesus himself our Lord and Master stiles himself a Minister or Servant of his Servants and he hath said He that will be greatest among you let him be Servant of all 'T is easy to distinguish between a servant by voluntary condescension and a servant by necessary subjection Tr. You said before that in case of prophaning the holy things you would confess a Minister deserves suspension Who shall suspend him but the Congregation What other power is there B. I confessed the prophaner of Holy things to deserve great punishment but after due Admonition and upon his obstinacy not else Yet I cannot see how the people have any Authority to sentence him Tr. Who would you have to do it Who B. To speak freely I would submit my self to my Ordinary the Apostolicall Bishop or if you like the Latin word better the President or Superintendent for whom I have spoken before And I am ready to joyn with you in a Petition that we may have an Apostolicall Bishop set over us as it was in practice of the antient Church H. You stand too much upon the practice of the Antient Church come to the Scripture B. I am sorry you value the practice of the antient Church so little Pray where is your maine strength in Scripture for your Independent or Congregationall Churches H. Let us read the famous Text Mat 18 15 16 17 18 19. 20. Out of which Text I frame this Argument If here be meant by the Church a Congregation from which lyes no Appeale then is the Independent Church founded upon this Text But here is meant a Congregation c. What else will
you conceive by the Church B. I am very inclinable to Saint Chrysostome's interpretation who by the Church understandands the Elders and Rulers of the Church H. The word Church is no where so taken in all the Scripture and therefore it cannot be so taken here shew us any place B. It doth not follow for some word may possibly signify that in one place which it signifies no where else and again there may be other places though I cannot readily shew them I will consider of it H. No I doe assure you t is never so used and therefore I hope you will yeeld to the Word that we may go on with one consent in the work of God B. God grant it if it be the Work of God but you have not cleered it yet I cannot yield to your sense for this Reason That sense of Scripture concerning Church-government which was never received by the Doctors of the Antient Church is not the true sense of Scripture But your sense of the place was never received c. H. Still still he declines Scripture and would lead us to human Ordinances B. As for human Ordinances I can embrace them so far as they are not opposite to Scripture but now we are upon the Interpretation of Scripture I must profess I have been ever bred in the Church that requires all her Ministers to receive the Scripture as interpreted by the Antient Fathers and to propose nothing to the people contrary to what was derived out of the Scripture by them I am not ashamed of my Mother the Church of England nor by Gods grace ever shall I. And I doe heartily warn all that hear me to take heed as they tender their Soules of departing rashly from the Communion of of the said Church W. I thought where we should have you B. You have me where I have ever been and where I mean to abide till I am convinced I am not unwilling to learn of any one And pray Mr. W. tell me whether you hold not a Synod of chosen men gathered out of your Churches to have authority over them all W. No authority at all such a Synod may be of use for advice and counsell not for goverment or for the exercise of any jurisdiction B. Then as I conceive your modell is very imperfect and me thinks your Ministers in their severall Congregations look like so many little Popes For the Pope is the Great Independent and will allow of no Appeal from him no more will you H. Pray Mr. B. quiet the People B. I beseech you good people I beseech you attend with silence and patience Tr. Where presently followes Execution there can be no appeal But after the sentence of the Congregation presently followes execution If he hear not the Church let him c. Therefore from the sentence of the Congregation can be no appeal B. Well argued I repeat Where presently c. I answer first to the major or first proposition There may be an appeal after execution of the sentence of the Congregation In your own way may not the wronged person appeal from you to your selves In the Presbyterian you know there lyes an appeal to the Classis but that I take not on me to maintain I know no power to excommunicate but Episcopall Tr. Then it seems by you the Bishop is the Church and the sole judge of the Congregations B. Not so neither Hear my Answer I pray and do not you ignorant fellowes laugh at that you do not understand The Bishop is considered either Sole or alone or as he sits in Cathedra crowned with Presbyters In this later sense I humbly conceive the Bishop is or ought to be Governour of the Congregations within his Diocese And such Bishops we can shew innumerable in the ancient Records of the Catholique Church I am very sorry these Gentlemen are so ill read in good Books of our own English Divines as to deny a truth shining so bright upon them Mr. Tr. have you not seen the learned Thorndike of the primitive Government c Tr. We cleave to the Scripture and call you to the foresaid text Can you shew one place where Church is taken for the Bishop and his Presbyters B. What if I cannot The Authority of the antient Fathers is sufficient for the present to commend my interpretation to such as reverence Antiquity But because I would gladly please you I will offer another sense of the words in question which will come neer to you but is not fully yours That is after the first admonition by one and the second before two or three it is the mind of Christ that a greater number should be made acquainted with the business tell it to the Many for the shaming of the offendor as the Apostle somewhere speaks the words may the more probably be taken in this sense because as yet the Disciples were not setled under a Church-government and so there remaining no more to be done after this shaming of the offendor before a good number of Fellow-Christians i. e. the Church he was to be henceforth till his amendment accounted as a heathen and might be prosecuted for any offence before the heathen Tribunalls Which prosecution was not lawfull against those that would hear the Church See 1 Cor. 6. But this will do you no pleasure unless that which followes in the next verse belong unto the Congregation too but that cannot be if Christ spake the words to his Apostles and gave the Keys and Power of Binding and Loosing to them and their successors as I believe he did Consider of it See the learned Dr. Hammond of binding and loosing To. Give me leave to add somewhat here in confirmation of what was last said Scripture you know gives light to Scripture Christ elswhere saith to Peter that he would give the Keys to him Matth. 16. 19. And John 20. 21 21 23. he speaketh to his Disciples and thus enstateth them in that power Then said Jesus to them again Peace be unto you as my Father hath sent me even so send I you And when he had said this he breathed on them and said unto them Receive yee the holy Ghost whosoever sins yee remit they are remitted unto them and whosoever sins ye retain they are retained these are the solemn words of Ordination W. The words are spoken to Peter and to the Disciples as they were Christian professors and so they do belong to our people not as they were appointed by Christ to be Governours of his Church To. The words signify a power committed to them which they used as Governours 't is plain and which they left to the Bishops their Successours Tr. The Apostles had no successors being gifted with a miraculous power B. The Apostles are to be considered in two respects either as planters of the Churches and to that purpose endued with a miraculous power to make way for and to give confirmation to the Gospel or else as Governours of the Churches
yee why will ye dye O yee opposers of the Truth H. You see Brethren what he is we have enough of him It is high time to conclude Sir I desire to conclude all with Prayer B. Sir I have answered your Objections and I take my leave of you For to your Prayers I fear I shall not be able to answer AMEN PSAL. 115. 1. Not unto us O Lord not unto us but unto Thy Name give the Prayse for thy Mercy and for thy Truths sake ADDITIONS ON the By it was said by Mr. To. that although there be no precept for Episcopacy in the New Testament the Apostolicall Institution of it is enough to commend it to us For we have not more to shew for the Lords day than for Episcopacy How then can we maintain the one and abolish the other When the opponent rejected the Authority of the Primitive Church Mr. To. said You do the Papists greater service than you are aware when for feare of Popery you disclaim the Fathers Col. A. In the Revelation the Lords day is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is the name and we have the practice in other places Holy assemblies on the first day of the week To. True Sir and so much we have for Episcopacy as hath been shewed already B. I remember well I have heard the Learned Doctor of the Chair Dr. Prideaux publickly declaring in the Divinity School that he could not prove the observation of the Lords day by Divine Command in any place of the New Testament but that the Apostolicall practice and example followed by the Church was sufficient to give it a kind of Divine right The like may be said for Episcopacy Church by plain Grammaticall construction doth signify no other thing than the Lords house From 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Kyrc and by adding letters of aspiration Church Hooker l. 5. 13. See the great Hugo Grotius of Authority Ch. 11. Also the Considerations touching the change of Church-Government The Respondent not knowing the most eager Disputant among his Opponents craved his name I was your Collegue saith he B. What I. W. of Gloster-Hall you were an early student in Divinity I remember you read Dr. Prideaux Lectures De Absoluto Decreto c. when you were but a Fresh-man He is now admonished to study his Antecessor at Tewksbury Mr. Geeres Book against Separation entituled Vindiciae Ecclesiae Anglicanae Another of the Opponents Mr. Tr. asked the Respondent whether he did not Preach before he was Ordained Yes said he once or twice in this Church above twenty years since being Mr of Arts and after that Tryall of my self I entred into Orders Your men do not so See Grotius of Authority pag. 181. Mr. W. At the mention of Christmas was startled and cried Popery Mr. B. Answered there is no hurt in the Word and for the Thing the keeping of that and other Christian Festivalls we commend the sober Christian to the Resolution of the sixt Quaere by the eminent Dr. Hammond Where the Respondent distinguisheth of Bishops as Lords as Fathers he would not have the Reader suspect him as if he envied any temporall Honour or Riches to the Fathers of the Church For who knew how to abound so well as They The good works of the Bishops of England would make a fair volume which perhaps some body will collect Our Mother Oxford especially cannot forget how magnificent Founders and Benefactors she hath had of this sacred Order One of the Opponents about admission of people to the Sacrament urged that proverbiall speech of Christ Matth. 7. 16. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles No said the Respondent while they continue such but on their Conversion they may For the true sense of that place hear the Divine Paraphrast By their fruits ye shall know them Ye shall certainly know them and discern them if you take notice of and weigh the doctrins which when they have gotten some Authority with you they will presently endeavour to infuse into you They that make no other use of their being counted Prophets but to infuse higher degrees of all kind of piety and charity into you ye may resolve they are sent from God For the Devill would never help men to credit and reputation in the world who should make use of it only to the advancement of piety But if their designs be to infuse into their followers any seeds of impiety injustice uncleanness uncharitableness sedition rebellion c. Let their pretences and behaviour be never so fair be sure they are false Prophets When it was said by the Respondent that Christ died for all men one Cr. a disciple of Mr. H. was heard to say Then it seems Christ dyed for the Devills and all not considering that Divine Text to the Hebrews 2. 16. For verily he took not on him the nature of Angels but he took on him the seed of Abraham Where the Paraphrast judiciously as his manner is amending the Translation saith For t is not said any where that he catches hold of Angels as they are falling or running or carried captive from him to save or rescue them from ruine or to bring them out of captivity but only to men doth he this favour peculiarly To his Congregation at Sudeley-Castle ANd now Beloved I end with a Request to you in Saint Peter's words Giving all diligence adde to your Faith Vertue and to your Vertue Knowledge and to Knowledge Temperance and to Temperance Patience and to Patience Godliness and to Godliness Brotherly-kindness and to Brotherly-kindness Charity For if these things be in you abound the greatest objection of our Opponents will be then fully answered if it be not yet Let no man suffer sin upon his Brother but let us exhort and admonish one another lovingly and faithfully and let the most knowing and Zealous among you assist the Minister in the discharge of his duty that no open and notorious liver may presume to come with us to the Holy Table Let us pray for a setled Publick Discipline but in the mean let us settle our selves and keep as good order as we can Let us shew the sincerity of our Religion by our mutuall Love and by our Meekness and Charity to our Enemyes and Calumniators Let us evidence our having the Spirit not by bold intrusion into offices not committed to us but by bringing forth the fruits of the Spirit Love Joy Peace Long-suffering and the rest Finally let us not be weary of Welldoing but go on in every good Work with courage and alacrity with our eyes fixed upon Heaven so shall the mouth of the Adversary be stopped and the Lord shall open our lips and our mouth shall shew forth his praise Amen Your Servant for Christs sake C. B. Scripsi 23. Novem. die St. Clementis natali meo 45. An. Ch. 1653. N. N. To the Reader CHristian Reader Know that after the Disputation ended between two and three in the Afternoon
Stepmother seeing that the greatest worldly hopes which are proposed unto the chiefest kind of learning yee seek utterly to extirpate as weeds and have grounded your platform on such Propositions as do after a sort undermine those most renowned habitations where through the goodness of Almighty God all commendable Arts and Sciences are with exceeding great industry hitherto and so may they for ever continue studied proceeded in and profest To charge you as purposely bent to the overthrow of that wherein many of you have attained no small perfection were injurious Only therefore I wish that your selves did well consider how opposite certain your positions are c. Master Edward Leigh a dilligent Collector in his Body of Divinity P. 454 c. THe Socinians say Cum adhuc nova c. The Apostles had a call when the Gospel was newly published there needs not a Ministry now that the Gospel is generally taught and it is promised we shall be all taught of God If we should look for a Ministry where shall we find it Our Ministets were ordained by Bishops they by the Pope Therefore their Calling is Anti-Christian But That there is such an Institution of Christ and this to continue till the worlds end may be thus proved First there are some to whom the word of reconciliation is committed and not to others 1 Cor. 5. 18. Rom. 10. 15. there is a peculiar mission Men cannot Preach as the Embassadors of Christ unless sent Jo. 20. 21. Gal. 1. 1. Secondly because a special authority is committed to such by vertue of their office they have the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven Is 22. 22. Mat. 16. 19. The Brownists say our Ministers are not rightly called into their offices because we received it from Rome Ans Not every thing ordained by Anti-Christ is forthwith to me rejected but only that which he doth qua Antichristus as he is Antichrist But Bishops were before ever Antichrist appeared in the world Brown the father of the Brownists was the first of note that did separate himself from the Church of England and said that we had no Church he meant a true Church But after he went into France and being at Geneva he saw the Sabbath much prophaned and the wafer-cake given in the Sacrament instead of bread whereupon he began to think better of the Church of England and returning home he became Pastor of a Church in Northhampton-shire called Achurch The Church of Rome was a true Church the Reformed Churches separated from it becoming a false Church Though Ministers were ordained in the most corrupt estate of the Church of Rome yet if they forsake the corruptions of the Church of Rome they are true Ministers as the Church of Rome it self if it would cast off its Corruptions should be a true Church There is a double Calling necessary to a dispensor of the Mysteries of salvation Inward and Outward The Inward enableth men the Outward authorizeth them to discharge their sacred function Where there are Gifts if God encline the heart of the party to enter into the Ministry there is an inward Calling Yet this alone sufficeth not without an outward Calling either Ordinary or Extraordinary We are not now to expect extraordinary callings since Miracles are ceased The Ordinary calling is by the Imposition of the hands of the Presbytery Jer. 14. 14. 27. 15. Rom. 10. 5. No other Ordination was heard of for fifteen hundred years or at lest approved of Dr. Featly's distinction of Clergy and Laity In the Reformed Churches of France and Geneva the people give no voice in the Election of Ministers but are only permitted if they have any causes of dislike or exception to make them known to the pastors guides of the Church and the power of judging such exceptions resteth wholly in them When one Morelius a phantasticall companion sought to bring the Elections of Bishops and Ministers to be popular and swayed by the most voices of the people he was condemned by all the Synods in France as Beza sheweth Epist 83. In Scripture we find Election and Ordination frequently distinguished not only as distinct acts but oft-times in distinct hands Deut. 1. 13. The people chuse them who shall be Rulers but Moses makes them Rulers Act. 6. 3. The people chuse the Apostâ—es appoint the Deacons The chusing of a person to an office is not the authorizing of the person elected but the designation of the person to be authorized See Mr. Gillesp Miscell e. 4. The Socinians acknowledge it is fit for Order and Decency to retain Ordination in the Church Peradventure many of the Sectaries of this time will hardly acknowledge thus much Some think that the Ceremony of laying on of hands may be omitted sometimes we must be tyed to example in the lest gesture though not prescribed and yet men presume to dispense in a circumstance prescribed Tit. 1. 5. Timothy was ordained by laying on of hands and enjoyned to lay hands on others in their Ordination 1 Tim. 5. 22. Thus were the Deacons ordained Act. 6. 6. and thus were Paul and Barnabas set apart for the execution of their calling Act. 13. 3. Augustin and Chrysostom preached every day in the week and year at least once or twice without fail Ye heard yesterday yee shall hear to morrow is common in their Tractates and Homilies Mr. Bull 's trial of Separat p. 81. The Papists by way of scoff called the Evangelical Ministers praedicantici Wheras Paul judged preaching his chief Office and would not baptize lest it should be an impediment Bellarmine and the Councill of Trent style preaching praecipuum Episcopi officium The Question saith Mr. Mode on Act. 5. 3 4 5. should not be Whether Tithes are due to the Ministers of the Gospel meaning as a duty of the people unto them but rather Whether they be not due to God for so is the style of the Scripture All the Tithes are mine These I give to Levi and not you There are many other uses for the employment of Bona sacra if they be more than is competent for them and theirs That men though gifted without being called to the Ministry and by Ordination set apart for it should take upon them the office or ordinary exercise of preaching seems repugnant to those Scriptures Rom. 10. 15. Heb. 5. 4. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Christ therefore frequently urgeth this That he was sent from his Father Punishments have been inflicted on those that have medled beyond their call as Uzziah Apage vaesanam illam prophetandi libertatem imo licentiam blasphemandi ut liceat maleferiato cuique tyroni prodigiosissima cerebri sui phantasmata in apricum producere populo commendare praelo Concio D Halli ad Syn. nat Dord Such as want Authority from the Church 1. are none of Christs Officers Ephes 4. 11. 2. They are expresly forbidden it Jer. 23. 21. 3. The blessing on the Word is promised only to sent Teachers Rom. 10. 15.
unum ab ipsis Apostolis praepositum caeteris singulari quadam dignitate ac potestate munitum Hisce Episcopis Apostolorum autoritate sic stabilitis Constat perpetua serie Successores fuisse subrogatos in iisdem Civitatibus novos etiam ad idem exemplar quando Ecclesiae sic visum fuit in aliis Civitatibus Constitutos Jo. Calvinus Protectori Angliae QUod ad formulam precum rituum Ecclesiasticorum valde probo ut certa illa extet à qua pastoribus discedere in functione sua non liceat tam ut consulatur quorundam simplicitati imperitiae quam ut certius ita constet omnium inter se Ecclesiarum consensus postremo etiam ut obviam eatur desultoriae quorundam levitati qui novationes quasdam affectant uti eo pertinere Catechismum ipsum ante ostendi Sic igitur statum esse Catechismum oportet statam Sacramentorum administrationem publicam item precum formulam Doctor Gauden to the Reader of his Apology BUt if the Sins of this Nation and the decrees of Divine Justice do indeed hasten an utter overthrow here of the Reformed Ministry and the Reformed Religion If Ministers of the antient Ordination lawful heirs of the true Apostolical Succession are therefore accounted as Sheep for the slaughter because they are better fed and better bred than others of leaner Souls and meaner Spirits If they are therefore to the men of this world as a favour of death unto death because they hold forth the word of Truth and Life to the just reproach of a lying dying and self-destroying Generation If we must at last perish and fall with our whole function and Fraternity after all our Studies charges labours and sufferings yet it is fit some of us and the more the better lest our silence may argue guilt give the world both at present and in after Ages some Account Why and How in so learned valiant wise and Religious a Nation as this of England hath been c. Of the Church of England I Cannot but take notice of the style that some Romanists have in these last years chosen to make use of calling us The late Church of England The interpretation whereof is to my understanding this that the Calamities under which now we suffer have made us cease to be a Church But Blessed be God the Church of England is not invisible It is still preserved in Bishops and Presbyters rightly Ordained and multitudes rightly Baptized none of which have fallen off from their profession And the only thing imaginable to be objected in this point being this that the Schism hath so far been extended by the force that many if not most Churches parochial are filled by those who have set up a new or a no-form of worship and so that many men cannot any otherwise than in private Families serve God after the Church-way that sure will be of little weight when the Romanists are remembred to be the objectors who cannot but know that this is the only way that they have had of serving God in this kingdom these many years and that the night meetings of the Primitive Christians in Dens and Caves are as pettinent to the justifying of our condition as they can be of any and when 't is certain that the forsaking of the Assemblies Heb. 10. 25. is not our wilful fault v. 26. but only our unhappy lot who are forced either not to frequent the Assemblies or else to encourage and incur the scandal of seeming to approve the practices of those that have departed from the Church See the eminent Doctor in his new Book of Schism last Chapter Master Medes answer to Doctor Twiss touching Holiness of Times and Places p. 660. SIR I Say still there is eadem ratio Loci Tempor is sacri quà talis to wit for the sanctification or discrimination due to them both and the formal reason for which it is due For the formal reason why a thing is to be sanctified or sanctè habendum is because it is sanctum or sacrum and whatsoever is appropriate to God and his service is such be it by Gods own immediate ordination or humane devotion it is all one in this point so the consecration be supposed lawful and agreeable to the divine will For this sanctification depends neither upon the difference of the institution whether divine or humane nor the diversity of natural and artificial Being but upon the formalis ratio of the object because it is sacrum Moreover I believe the one was intended in the fourth Commandement as well as the other not only from that general rule whereby the Decalogue is to be interpreted but because the Lord himself hath conjoined them Lev. 19. 30. Keep my Sabhaths and reverence my Sanctuary Why may not I say Those whom God hath joined together let no man put asunder And it may be the sanctification of the Lords Day would be urged with more advantage upon the ground I have intimated than upon that other which is so much controverted But it is Partiality that undoes all Of Christian Prudence CHristian prudence forbids us to provoke a danger and they were fond persons that run to persecution and when the Proconsul sate on the life and death and made strict inquisition after Christians went and offer'd themselves to die and he was a fool that being in Portugal run to the Priest as he elevated the host and overthrew the mysteries and openly defyed the rites of that Religion God when he sends a persecution will pick out such persons whom he will have to dy whom he wil consign to banishment whom to poverty In the mean time let us do our duty when we can walking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Apostles phrase is not prevaricating in the least tittle and then if we can be safe with the arts of civil innocent in-offensive compliance let us bless God for his permissions made to us and his assistances in the using them But if either we turn our zeal into the ambition of death and the follies of an unnecessary beggary or on the other side turn our prudence into craft and covetousness to the first I say that God hath no pleasure in fools to the later If you gain the whole world and lose your own Soul your loss is infinite and intolerable Doctor Jer. Taylor Serm. 20. Sum. Of Liturgy and the use of Gifts in Prayer THough I am not against a Grave modest discreet and humble use of Ministers gifts even in publick the better to fit and excite their own and the Peoples affections to the present occasions Yet I know no necessity why private and single abilities should quite justle out and deprive the Church of the joint abilities and concurrent gifts and graces enabling them to compose with serious deliberation and concurrent advice such Forms of Prayers as may best fit the Churches common wants inform the hearers understanding and stir up that fiduciary and fervent
application of their Spirits wherein consists the very Life and Soul of Prayer and that so much pretended Spirit of Prayer than any ptivate man by his solitary abilities can be presumed to have which what they are many times even there where they make a great noise and shew the affectations emptiness impertinency rudeness confusions flatness levity obscurity vain and ridiculous repetitions the senseless and oft-times blasphemous expressions all these burthened with a most tedious and intolerable length do sufficiently convince all men but those who glory in that pharasaick way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 16. Of Moderate Episcopacy THe Abuses of Episcopacy deserve to be extirpated as much as the use retained for I think it far better to hold to Primitive and uniform Antiquity than to comply with divided Novelty A right Episcopacy would at once satisfy all just desires and interests of good Bishops humble Presbyters and sober people so as Church affairs should be managed neither with tyranny parity nor popularity neither Bishops ejected nor Presbyters despised nor people oppressed ibid. 17. Of the Primitive Church and Fathers IF the practice of the Primitive Church and the universal consent of the Fathers be not a convincing Argument when the Interpretation of Scripture is doubtful I know nothing for if this be not then of necessity the Interpretation of private Spirits must be admitted the which contradicts S. Peter 2 Pet. 1. 20. is the Mother of all sects and will if not prevented bring these Kingdoms into confusion And to say that an Argument is ill because the Papists use it or that such a thing is good because it is the custome of some of the reformed Churches cannot weigh with me untill you prove these to be infallible or that to maintain no Truth And how Diotrephes ambition who directly opposed the Apostle S. John can be an Argument against Episcopacy I do not understand His Majesties second paper to H. Of the same MY Conclusion is that albeit I never esteemed any Authority equall to the Scriptures yet I do think the unanimous consent of the Fathers and the Universall practice of the Primitive Church to be the best and most Authenticall Interpreters of God's Word and consequently the fittest Judges between Me and You when we differ untill you shall find me better Fift paper A pious Offer of the English Clergy Anno 1644. I Shall offer in the name of my brethren of the Clergy not that I have took their particular votes but that I perswade my self so far of their piety That rather than the Glory should thus depart from Israel by laying wast this flourishing Church of ours every one single of us that have any possessions or titles worthy any mans envy or rapine and so are thought now by our own Interests to have been bribed or fee'd Advocates in this cause may forthwith be deprived of all that part of the Revenues of the Church wherein we are legally invested And he that shall not cheerfully resign his part in the present prosperity of the Church on the meer contemplation and intuition of the benefit that may now and after his life redound to others let him have the charge of being disturber of the State And if the Function it self with the necessary adjuncts to it be not swept away in the calamity we shall be perfectly pleas'd whatsoever befall our Persons and desire that tryall may be made of the ingenuity of Clergy-men whether we have not thus far profited under Gods rod as to be willing to yield to any possible proposition which will bring no guilt of sin upon our Consciences toward the averting the Judgments of Heaven Dr. Hammond's Consid of Church-government Of Universall Redemption THese two propositions are very reconcilable that Christ redeemed all men and yet that the whole number of the impenitent unbelieving reprobate world shall never be saved by him The great Benefits of Christ's death which I affirm to be general are given upon condition not absolutely as God's love to the world and the effect of it giving his Son is not designed that all absolutely but that all conditionally i. e. Whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life They which do not perform that condition as Gods knows a great multitude do not shall never be saved by his death To which purpose is that of Prosper one far enough from all kindness to the Pelagians Redemptor mundi dedit pro mundo sanguinem suum mundus redimi noluit The Redeemer of the world gave his bloud for the world and the world would not be redeemed Ad Gall. cap. 9. To that testimony Heb. 2. 9. so clear that it alone hath to my knowledge convinc'd one as learned a man as doth in this Church of ours maintain the doctrins contrary to the Remonstrants I shall ex abundanti add these other plain testimonies Not only that of Gods giving his only Son mention'd by Christ as an effect or expression of his love to the world which it would not be if he did not give him for the world whom he is said to love but to prevent all distinctions concerning the notion of the world as if it signified only the elect more particularly these two First that of 2 Pet. 2. 1. Where the Lord i. e. Christ is plainly said to have bought i. e. paid the Price satisfied for them who deny him and bring upon themselves swift destruction The other testimony is that of S. Paul 2 Cor. 5. 14. Where speaking of the constraining obliging love of Christ he said We thus judge that if one dyed for all then were all dead that is surely All in the full latitude not only the elect but All others and this conclusion the Apostle infers by this medium because One that is Christ dyed for All. Which being a proof of the other must certainly be as true and the All as generall and unlimited c. Dr. Hammond Vindic. of the Prac. Catech. p. 4 5. Of set forms of Prayer THat it is lawfull to use a set determinate form of words either written or fastned in our memory is apparent both by the example of Christ who in S. Luke bids us when we pray say Our Father c. not only pray after this pattern as the words in S. Matthew may be interpreted but use these very words when you pray say Our Father c. Luke 11. 2. and of John Baptist who taught his disciples to pray in some form though we know not what it is Luke 11. 1. As also of the Priests that used set forms of blessing the people Numb 6. 24. and of our Saviour himself who used a part if not the whole of the 22. Psalm upon the Cross My God my God why hast thou forsaken me c. And of the Church of the Jews and Christian Churches through all times who have had their Liturgies as ways and forms of serving God publickly and as means to preserve the true Religion
from all corruptions in doctrine Add the great benefit that accrews to the Congregation in having discreet well-formed prayers and so not subject to the temerity and impertinences of the sudden effusions and the same still in constant use and so not strange or new to them but such as they may with understanding go along with the Minister and by the help of their Memory the most ignorant may carry them away for his private use Pract. Catech. lib. 3. sect 2. Melancthon Calvino 1543. Maii. 11. SCio Deum inter fatales Imperiorum tumultus Ecclesiam suam servare mirabiliter Non igitur frangamur animis sed dum possumus sonemus ut conversus Latro in cruce doctrinam de Filio Dei deque arcana sapientia quae est Ecclesiae propria de magnitudine humanae infirmitatis de poenitentia fiducia promissae misericordiae propter filium de vera invocatione veris Ecclesiae virtutibus de mysteriis non polluendis de Ecclesiae politia non illa quam fingunt Pontifices sed qualis fuit Prophetarum Apostolorum denique de vita aeterna Ad harum maximarum rerum doctrinam ornandam transfer as velim eloquentiom tuam quae confirmare nostros terrere adversarios sanabiles juvare poterit Fortassis nostra Germania paulo post à Turcis vastabitur quod si fiet eo magis vobis alibi in locis tutioribus studia literarum excitanda erunt pugnandum vehementius ut in reliqua Europa Evangelii lucem accendatis retineatis Quod ad quaestionem de praedestinatione habebam amicum Tubingae doctum hominem Franciscum Stadianum qui dicere solebat se utrumque probare evenire omnia ut divina providentia decrevit tamen esse contingentia sed se haec conciliare non posse Ego cum hypothesin hanc teneam Deum non esse causam peccati nec velle peccatum postea contingentiam in hac nostra infirmitate judicii admitto ut sciant rudes Davidem sua voluntate ultro ruere eundem sentio cum haberet Spiritum Sanctum potuisse eum retinere in ea lucta aliquem esse voluntatis actionem Haec etiamsi subtilius disputari possunt tamen ad regendas mentes hoc modo proposit◠accommodata videntur Accusemus ipsi nostram voluntatem cum labimur non quaeramus in Dei consilio causam contra eam nos erigamus sciamus Deum velle opitulari adesse luctantibus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inquit Basilius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Excitetur ergo cura in nobis laudetur Dei immensa bonit as quum promisit auxilium praestat Haec non scribo ut tibi tradam quasi dictata homini eruditissimo ac peritissimo exercitiorum pietatis Et quidem scio haec cum tuis congruere sed sunt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad usum accommodata Haec Bonnae scripsi apud D. Bucerum cum eo accersitus est ut Ecclesias in Diocesi Coloniensi emendaret Haec consilia Deo piis votis commendes Philippus Melancthon Of the power of the Congregation LEt not any man think now that the Apostle communicateth this power with the Congregation of the Church of Corinth when he writeth to them 1 Cor. 5. 4 5. being assembled with his spirit to deliver the incestuous person to Satan For it is plain that the sentence is given by the Apostle vers 3. where he writeth For I verily as absent in body but present in spirit have judged already as though I were present concerning him that hath so done this deed And to cause this proceeding to be the better digested he hath vouched his power in the end of the chapter afore verse 18. Now some are puffed up as though I would not come unto you but I will come unto you shortly if the Lord will and will know not the speech of them that are puffed up but the power What will you shall I come unto you with a rod or with the spirit of meekness Which power otherwhiles he setteth before them in case of their disobedience And therefore it must be acknowledged that he writeth to them to see his sentence published ratified and executed which the Presbyters there had either neglected to do or perhaps were not able to bring the people under the Discipline of Christ's Kingdom which must needs oblige the Apostle to interpose And this without doubt is the reason why the Apostle writeth in these terms 1 Cor. 5. 12. For what have I to do to judge those that are without do not ye judge those that are within speaking to the Church in general though the sentence passed by Bishop and Presbyters because matters were censured in the Congregation and executed by the people And thus the practice of that time giveth a reason without straining why our Lord seemeth to refer these matters to the Congregation when he saith Tell it to the Church because they passed at their Assemblies though under Censure of Bishop and Presbyters And great reason there is why this regard should be had by the Apostle and by the Church afterwards to the People because the Church being a meer spiritual Commonwealth and not indued with temporal strength so much as to execute those sentences which the power of the Keys given by Christ obligeth it to inflict always setting wide that power of working miracles which was in the Apostle upon which some think he reflecteth in some passages of those Epistles requisite it was then the Congregation should be satisfied of the course of those proceedings which must come into execution and effect by their voluntary submission to the will of God and the office of his Ministers And as the matter is now that things of this nature proceed not upon mens private Consciences and Judgments in particulars but upon general rules of Common right requisite it is that the Common-wealth have satisfaction of those Laws according to which the Church now must proceed in their censures it being acknowledged that they cannot proceed with effect but by vertue of those Laws that are put in force by the secular Arm. Mr. Thorndike of Prim. Government p. 144. Reader Take for a Conclusion of all at this time that too pertinent Relation which you may read more at large in Mr. Hookers preface collected out of Guy de bres Of the Errour of the Anabaptists THey so much affected to cross the ordinary custome in every thing that when other mens use was to put on better attire they would be sure to shew themselves openly abroad in worse the ordinary names of the days in the week they thought it a kind of prophaness to use and therefore accustomed themselves to make no other distinction than by numbers The first second third day-They boldly avouched that themselves only had the truth and that since the Apostles lived the same was never before in all points sincerely taught Other disputation against their opinions