which they were not yet able to bear To those who had been with Christ from the Beginning To those from whom Christ was now going away And whom he had before told of his Departure Lastly to whom the Holy Ghost was to shew Things to come A Promise which the present Church of Rome dares not pretend to If here it shall be urged that the Clause for ever must needs extend this Promise beyond their own Persons and so to their Successors To this I Answer 1. This for ever signifies no more then to the end of their Lives According to those known Forms of Speech This is mine for ever Or This shall be yours for ever 2. Suppose these Promises had been made to them and their Successors Had they no Successors but them of the Roman Church This hath been confidently pretended but was never yet proved Math 18. 17. And if he shall neglect to hear them tell it unto the Church but if he neglect to hear the Church let him be unto thee as an Heathen man and a Publican pag. 14. What Church is this that must be heard The Church of Rome only nothing less 'T is evident by the Church in this Text can be meant no other than that particular Church of which the offending Brother was a Member But suppose that by the Church were meant the Church of Rome and that this Church of Rome were to be heard and obey'd What then Is she therefore Infallible Are all those that are to be heard and obey'd Infallible Are not Kings and Parents and Masters and Prelates and Abbots are not all these to be heard and obey'd And are all these Infallible Matth 28. 19. compared with Mark. 16. 15 16. Go ye therefore and Teach all Nations and preach the Gospel to every creature He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned p. 14. What then Therefore The Church of Rome is Infallible This is such a Demonstration as Euclid never dreamed on 1 Tim 3. 15. That thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thy self in the house of God which is the Church of the living God the pillar and ground of the truth p. 14. The Church Catholick without controversie is the Pillar and Ground of the Truth Nay even Particular Churches as sound parts and members of the Catholick and the Bishops of those Churches may be adorned with that Title But whatâ—s this to the Church of Rome Which is neither the Catholick Church nor a sound Member of it Indeed had Timothy been Bishop of Româ— I should then have been obliged to examine how and in what sense a Particular Church may be called the Pillar and ground of the truth without being Infallible But since he was Bishop of Ephesus and not of Rome and since the Infallibility of Rome and not of Ephesus is to be proved there is no occasion for that Inquiry Ephes 4. 11 12 14. And he gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints that we henceforth be no more Children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive but speaking the truth in love may grow up in him in all things who is the head even Christ p. 14. Amongst all these Orders here 's no mention of an Infallible Judge of Controversies much less that this Judg is only to be found in the Church of Rome And thus I have briefly shewed how impertinently these Scriptures have been urged by this Missioner When I say Impertinently I do not thereby blame the conduct of this Writer who hath taken the true method to defend his Church but by that word do only express the weakness of his Cause Which hath been so often and so effectually exposed that it may well puzzle even the skill of a Missioner to make a decent Defence And indeed it is no little surprizing to observe how perplexing and confused an Answer is here given to the most plain and easy Question The Plain-man having often been admonished to return as they Phrase it into the Bosom of the Church of Rome and as a further inducement to hasten his Change having been assur'd That the Church of Rome is Infallible and that Protestant Churches for want of this Infallibility are neither able to interpret Scripture nor compose Differences in matters of Faith I say being thus admonished he makes this short Reply viz. That if the Church of Rome is infallible as they pretend it would be a seasonable Charity to instruct him in this matter This is the Substance of that little Treatise Which indeed is no other then a Paraphrase upon this Question Who is this Infallible Judg that so upon occasion I may consult him Tell me distinctly Who is this unerring Guid Where may I find him And I do faithfully promise to resign my self to his Conduct Plain-mans Reply p. 18 19 22. Observe now what Answer the Missioner hath given to this important Question Pray mark it 'T is worth your notice Mistake me not I pray I tell you distinctly that the Church is my infallible Guide And this Church is to be found spread over the face of the whole World I may therefore securely rely upon what she teacheth without troubling my self to search whether this or that particular Person in her be Infallible or no. Missioners Answer p. 16 A most learned Determination And very much no doubt to the satisfaction of the Plain-man For whose further Instruction I do thus expostulate with this Missioner The Country Parson to the Missioner YOu say Sir the Church is my Infallible Guide Pray what do you mean by this Church Is it in your Language the Teaching Church or the Learning part of the Church p. 14. Or in more proper Terms Is it the Church Representative or the Church Diffusive sure not the Church Diffusive For that comprehends every private Christian even the most ordinary Mechanick And in case of Differences about the sense of Scripture or any Divinely revealed Truths I hope these are no fit Persons to decide the Difference and end the Controversy Missioners Answer p. 10. It remains therefore That the Church Representative is this Infallible Guide And then our next thought is to inquire who this infallible Representative is And though you assured the Plain-man That he may securely rely upon what the Church teacheth without troubling himself to search whether this or that particular Person in her be infallible or no pag. 16. yet in contradiction to your self you are forced to Declare That a General Council the Supream Court of Judicature is the Legal Infallible Representative of the Church p. 18. So that whether the Controversie be about the sense of Scripture or about the Canon of a Council there must be a Living Judg to determine it and this I say is the Church in
A DEFENCE OF THE Plain-Man's REPLY TO THE Catholick Missionaries Being a further Examination of the Pretended Infallibility of the Church of Rome Imprimatur Guil. Needham R. R. in Christo Patri ac D. D. Wilhelmo Archiep. Cant. a Sac. Domest March 29. 1688. By the Author of the Plain-Man's Reply to the Catholick Missionaries LONDON Printed by T. B. for R. Wild at the Bible and Crown on Ludgate-Hill 1688. Advertisement SOme Papers having lately passed betwixt a Romish-Missioner and a Country-Parson it may not be improper so far to gratify the Reader 's Curiosity as to acquaint him with the occasion of them Which shall thus briefly be represented under the Title of The Argument A Romish Priest being wearied with the noise and hurry of the Town for his Diversion and Health retires into the Country Where observing a Farmer in a pleasant field holding his Plough in hopes of a Convert he enters into a close Discourse with him The Plough-man at first is much started with his Address and fenceth as well as his Mother-wit wil allow him and gives very good Reason according to some Directions received from his Parson why he ought not to engage in Discourses of that nature Till aâ— last conquered by the civility or importunity of the Priest he admits the Debate And to bring the matter to a short Issue the Farmer puts him to prove the Infallibility of his Church And withal desires him particularly to inform him Who is this Living Infallible Judg that so upon occasion he may consult him Who is this unerring Guid that so he may submit himself to his Conduct Wherein the Priest not being able to give him any tolerable Satisfaction the Plough-man is so far from embracing the Communion of the Church of Rome that he is more firm and affectionate to the Church of England than he was before And in Charity to the rest of his Brethren of the same Capacity with himself by the Advice and with the Direction of his Parson he publisheth the substance of the Conference under the Title of The Plain-mans Reply to the Catholic Missionaries Which together with the forementioned Directions of his Parson called The Country-Parsons Admonition to his Parishioners was so displeasing to the Romish Party that they have Published a pretended Confutation of them both Titled The Plain-mans Answer to his Country-Parsons Admonition Together with the Missioners Answer to the Plain-mans Reply To the former of these an Answer hath been lately Published with this Title viz. A Defence of the Country-Parsons Admonition against the Exceptions of the Plain-mans Answer And a Reply to the latter being a full Vindication of the Plain-man against the Missioner is attempted in this following Discourse THE Country-Parson's REFLECTIONS Upon the Missioners Answer A Parishioner of mine an honest Plain-man was prevailed upon by the Importunity of others to hearken to the Whispers of a Romish Priest Who suggested to him that as without Faith there is no Salvation so without Infallibility there is no Faith and that this Infallibility is only to be found in the Church of Rome The Plain-man with whom Saying and Doing are two things very bluntly demands How it appears that the Church of Rome is Infallible And desires the Priest to give him in Writing one or two of his best Arguments and then promiseth to consider them at his leasure The Missioner assures him he can prove by undeniable Arguments That the Church of Rome is infallible Which he will undertake in this method By shewing 1. What is meant by the Church of Rome 2. What is meant by Infallible 3. From whence the Church of Rome had this Infallibility 4. How they prove it 5. Where we may find this Church 6. And lastly How we may know when she speaks to us and what she teacheth Missioners Answer p. 9. This Paper being sent to the Plain-man he gives it to his Parson and desires his judgment of it Intimating further that the Missioner thinks these Arguments very convincing and therefore expects an Answer to them p. 21. Now in order to the Plain-mans satisfaction and the Missioners also if he please to accept it I do thus examine that Paper in its own Method And First I am not satisfied with his Description of the Church of Rome viz. By the Church of Rome we do not mean the particular Diocess of Rome or any particular Church or Assembly but the Catholick Church spread over the face of the whole World in Communion with the Bishop of Rome the Supream Pastor of the Church of Christ Missioners Answer pag. 9. In this Description here are three Things supposed 1. That the Church of Rome is the Catholic Church 2. That the Bishop of Rome is the Supream Pastor of the Church of Christ 3. That the Catholick Church spread over the face of the whole World is in Communion with the Bishop of Rome The Two former are deny'd therefore I expect their Proof And the Third must not be granted without its due explication 1. As to the first the Plain-man hath told him That though it is the noted mistake of some writers to call the Church of Rome the Church Catholic and then to apply all the Promises of Protection and Preservation to her as such yet this is only their own confident Supposal without the least manner of Proof Plain-mans Reply p. 10. Being thus admonished why did not the Priest confirm this Proposition wherein his Cause is so much concern'd Nay Why did he thus prevaricate in omitting to do it when so fair an occasion was offer'd For Several Texts of Scripture of which more anon being cited by the Missioner To prove the Infallibility of the Church of Rome The Plain-man thus Reply's I must confess these are great Privileges but I have been told these belong to the Universal Church composed of all Christians So that if you can shew me 5. That these promises were made to the Roman Church or That she is the only true Church of Christ I shall most willingly hear you Missioners Answer p. 14. This Demand was rational and to the purpose To which the Missioner makes this Answer This may be easily made clear to you if you do but remember what I told you we mean by the Roman Catholic Church p. 15. And what was it that he had told him Even this but then you must take it upon his word The Church of Rome is the Catholic Church And further this Deponent saith not Now in kindness to this Missioner that I may direct him in his Proof which I 'le assure him is expected from him I shall a little more distinctly examine this matter Whoever shall pretend to prove that the Church of Rome is the Catholick Church He must consider 1. The nature of the Christian Church 2. He must examine Why and upon what account the Christian Church is stiled Catholic And from thence he will be prepared to determine Whether the Church of Rome is the
Catholic Church As to the nature of the Christian Church the Trent-Catechism out of St. Augustine doth thus instruct us Ecclesia est Populus fidelis per universum orbem dispersus Cat. Rom. P. 1. c. 10. Sect. 2. The Christian Church is The Company of Believers A Society of men professing the Faith of Christ dispersed and scatter'd over all the world And this Church is stiled Catholick in these Two respects 1. With respect to the Persons who make this Profession Who are not now confined to one Nation or limited to one People as the Jewish Church was But in every Nation he that feareth God and worketh Righteousness is accepted with him Hence St. Augustine Ep. 170. tells us The Church is called CATHOLIC because it is spread throughout the whole World. 2. With respect to the Faith which is professed And so Catholic is the same with sound and Orthodâ—x In which sense Particular Churches and the Bishops of those Churches in antient Writings are often stiled Catholic in opposition to Hereticks and Schismaticks Now in whether of these Two respects will this Missioner pretend that the Church of Rome is the Catholic Church 1. Will he affirm that she is Catholic with respect to the Persons who make this Profession Then she is the whole Church Then there is no other Church but the Roman taking in those other Churches which submit to her Authority In short Then the Roman-Catholics alone do make Profession of Christianity and there are no other Christians in the World but Papists If this be his meaning for his conviction let me then desire him to resolve me When any Member of the Church of England is reconciled as they phrase it to the Church of Rome Was that Person before his Reconciliation a Member of the Church of Christ or was he not Was he a Christian or was he not If not Why then do they not admit him into the Church by Baptism But if this Missioner is forced to grant That such a Convert was a Christian and a Member of the Church of Christ even before he was a Roman-Catholic Then there are other Christians besides Papists and there are other Churches besides the Roman Then the Church of Rome is not the Whole Church and consequently in this first sense of the woâ—d is not the Catholic Church But 2. Will this Missioner pretend That the Church of Rome is the Catholic Church in the other notion of the word i. e. Sound and Orthodox If this be his Project 't is then expected that he prepare us an Answer to that larg Bill of Indictment which the Reformed Writers have prefer'd against her And when he shall have given us Satisfaction as to all those Errors and Corruptions with which she is charged As for instance The Sacrifice of the Mass Transubstantiation Half-Communion Prayers in an unknown Tongue Worship of Images Invocation of Saints Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead c. Then and not till then we may grant That the Church of Rome is Catholic in this Second sense of the word And that she is a Sound and Orthodox Church And so I leave him to his Defence which he may prepare at his leasure and proceed to consider his Second Supposition viz 2. That the Bishop of Rome is the Supream Pastor of the Church of Christ This is the Fundamental Article of the Romish Faith. And yet there is not one word of it in the Apostles Creed which is the Sum of the Christian Faith. No nor yet in the Holy Scriptures out of which that Creed was taken That de facto this Supremacy was not granted to the Bishops of Rome in the first and purest Ages of the Church but that their Encroachments were still opposed is most evidently shewed by the Learnd Dr. Cave in A Dissertation concerning the Government of the Ancient Church That the Britannick Churches were ever exempted from all forreign Jurisdiction for the first Six Hundred Years and so ought to continue if this Missioner will be so modest as to hearken to Instruction the renowned Arch-Bishop Bramhal hath undeniably proved And therefore if prosperous Usurpation may be called in Question I would ask Quo jure This Supremacy of the Pope whence was it from Heaven or of Men Who gave him this Authority to Rule and Govern the whole Church of Christ ch Their usual pretence for such exorbitant Power is known to be this viz. That our Blessed Saviour before his Ascension did constitute St. Peter his Vicar Deputy and Vicegerent and as such gave him a Monarchical Supremacy and Jurisdiction over the rest of the Apostles and the whole Church The which Supremacy was not Personal and Temporary to cease with his Person as the Apostleship did but was to be transfer'd to his Successor The which Successor say they is the Bishop of Rome This is their Plea. In confirmation of which these following Propositions must be established 1. That St. Peter had a Primacy over the Apostles 2. That this Primacy did include a Supremacy of Power and Dominion or Jurisdiction over the Apostles 3. That St. Peters Primacy with its Rights and Prerogatives was not Personal but derivable to his Successors 4. That St. Peter was Bishop of Rome and continued till his Death in possession of that Office. 5. That the Bishops of Rome as Successors of St. Peter according to Gods institution and by original Right derived thence should have an Universal Supremacy and Jurisdiction over the Christian Church 6. That in fact the Roman Bishops continually from St. Peters time have enjoyed and excercised this Sovereign Power 7. That this Power is indefectible and unalterable These are the Pillars of the Romish Cause And therefore if this Missioner will be shewing his skill let him practise upon these Points But when he attempts it he shall find to his cost that the Learned Dr. Barrow hath examined them before him In his excellent Treatise of the Pope's Supremacy To which I refer him So much for that I am next to examined his Third Supposition viz. 3. That the Catholic Church spread over the face of the whole world is in Communion with the Bishop of Rome To determine this matter we must consider the nature of Church-Communion Of which briefly thus Church-Communion to speak properly doth chiefly respect the Universal Church For to be in Communion with the Church it is to be a member of the Church Catholick in plain terms it is to be a Christian as we were made by Baptism the Seal of the New Covenant Into which Covenant being thus admitted we are united to the whole Church And by virtue of this union as Church-Members have a common Right to all Church-Priviledges and Blessings and a common obligation to all Church-Offices and Duties The which Communion or Communication in Religious Duties though it be limited and restrained in the use and exercise of it to particular Churches and Congregations for all Christians in the world cannot meet together yet all such
Acts of Worship as Prayers Sacraments Hearing the word c. are performed by us as Members of the Catholic Church And therefore we are obliged to Communicate in these Duties not only with our own National Church but also if our occasions do call us abroad with any other Church in the world Provided that we may do it upon Catholic Terms and Conditions These things premised we are now prepared to Determine How far the Catholic Church spread over the face of the whole world is in Communion with the Bishop of Rome Which will easily be decided by observing That there is a Twofold Communion 1. Of Co-ordination or Friendship 2. Subordination or Subjection As to the former we may safely affirm All the Churches in the world are thus far in Communion with the Bishop of Rome That they may own him for a Christian Bishop as acknowledging the Church of Rome to be a true Church though indeed a very corrupt Church And if they do not Communicate further with him it is his own fault But this it it seems will not satisfie this Missioner Who most vainly fancy 's that there is no Communion without Subjection And that no Church can be in Communion with the Church of Rome without submitting to her Authority When therefore it is affirmed That the Catholic Church is thus Subject to the Bishop of Rome If this Missioner pleads That de facto all other Churches are actually thus Subject we then deny it for the greater part of Christendom doth protest against the Errors and oppose the Usurpations of the Bishop of Rome But if he contends that de jure they ought so to be and that this Subjection is their Duty then let him prove it What I have now said is sufficient to convince this Missioner of his mistaken Notion of the Church of Rome Which if he thinks fit to Defend he must then prove 1. That the Church of Rome is the Catholic Church i.e. He must convince us Either 1. That she is the whole Church and that there is no other Church besides her or else 2. That she is the only true and Orthodox Church 2. That the Bishop of Rome is the Supream Pastor of the Church of Christ Which when he hath proved I shall then grant him 3. That the Catholic Church spread over the face of the whole world is in Communion with i. e. is Subject to the Bishop of Rome And here should I now hold my Pen and proceed no further in my Reflections I have given this Missioner work enough But if he will be so modest as to confess his mistake I 'le help him to a better Definition of the Church of Rome and less liable to exception By the Roman Church we do not understand the particular Diocess of Rome but we understand that vastly extended Community of Christians which hold Communion with the Church of Rome submitting themselves to the Bishop of Rome as to their Head so that whatsoever he Decrees with a General Council they embrace as the Definition of the true Church which they hold Infallible Question of Questions Sect. 17. p. 373. Had this Missioner been so prudent as to have consulted this Author whom he was pleased to recommend for the Plain-mans Satisfaction we might then make short work on 't and without further diversion might have proceeded to the Second Inquiry viz. 2. What is meant by Infallible Which he thus explains By the word Infallibility we do not mean only Indefectibility and Duration but an unerring Direction in necessary points of Faith. So that when we say the Church of Rome is infallible we mean that Almighty God hath given an Authoritative Power to the Church of Rome to declare in case of Differences which is the Faith which was once delivered to the Saints Jude 3. So that in case of Differences about the sense of Scripture or any divinely revealed Truths the Church of Rome is to decide the Difference and end the Controversie And to perform this we say she is assisted by the Spirit of Almighty God who as he hath ordained her for our Direction so he secures her from erring whilst she Directs Which assistance we call Infallibility Missioners Answer p. 10. This he endeavours to confirm by inquiring Thirdly 3. From whence had she the Church of Rome this Authority of unerring Guidance p. 11. To which he gives us this Answer You must not think that the Church of Rome has this power from her self for we know that all men may fail All Communities and Assemblies are subject to error and mistakes where then is the Infallibility of Oral Tradition But she has it from God himself who is faitful and true to his Promises Ibid. But 4. How doth it appear that the Church of Rome is thus Infallible and that God hath made her these Promises of unerring Guidance Ibid. This he tells us is evident from the plain Testimonies of Holy Scripture both Old and New Testament Ibid. Thus far I do readily Subscribe That if the Church of Rome is Infallible She must have this Priviledg from God himself And if there is such a Promise of unerring Guidance it must be found in the Holy Scriptures Let it therefore appear from those Sacred Writings that God hath promised such an unerring Guidance to the Church of Rome and I shall then Dispute no further but submit to her Direction Now to prove this Infallibility this Missioner hath cited Twenty Places of Scripture which the Question of Questions tells him are in the Bible But how little they are to his purpose I do thus endeavour to convince him by examining them in their order His First Text is that noted Place Deut. 17. 8. c. From whence the Argument is this The Jewish Church was Infallible Therefore The Church of Rome is Infallible To which I thus Answer Both Propositions Antecedent and Consequent are false And First it doth not appear from this Place of Scripture nor indeed from any other That the Jewish Church was Infallible From what Circumstance in this Text will the Missioner infer such a Conclusion Was it 1. Because in that Church there was a Supream Court of Judicature from whence there was no Appeal Or 2. Because the Priests the Levites and the Judg were to give Sentence Or 3. Was it because the contemner of this Sentence was to be put to Death Now if these Passages do prove Infallibility there was 〈◊〉 Infallibility in the State as well as in the Church in the Judg the Civil Magistrate no less then the Priest and â—n every Inferior Priest as well as the High Priest But I need not insist on these Suggestions since there is no arguing against matter of Fact. If therefore it doth appear in any instance That the Jewish Church or the Roman hath actually erred 't is too late to pretend that she is Infallible To convince him that she hath erred I Demand of this Missioner The Sentence of the Sanhedrim whereby