exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregation_n yet_o they_o never_o intend_v it_o as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n now_o you_o know_v the_o say_n authoris_fw-la aliud_fw-la agentis_fw-la parva_fw-la est_fw-la authâ—…ritas_fw-la but_o show_v we_o where_o ever_o the_o old_a non-conformists'_a as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v so_o it_o will_v appear_v by_o gerson_n bucerus_n and_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o geneva_n amplitudinâ—…_n and_o holland_n for_o which_o mr_n robinson_n so_o object_n against_o they_o in_o his_o apology_n that_o though_o they_o be_v against_o the_o government_n of_o bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n that_o be_v of_o a_o head_n church_n over_o many_o congregation_n unite_v to_o it_o yet_o not_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o such_o a_o city_n consist_v of_o many_o particular_a congregation_n and_o as_o for_o that_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v by_o all_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v several_a elder_n 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not_o but_o imagine_v that_o the_o first_o church_n plant_v by_o the_o apostle_n be_v ordinary_o of_o no_o more_o in_o one_o city_n at_o the_o first_o then_o may_v make_v up_o one_o entire_a congregation_n rule_v by_o their_o own_o elder_n that_o also_o preach_v to_o they_o and_o that_o you_o can_v not_o but_o judge_v it_o a_o safe_a and_o a_o allow_a way_n to_o retain_v the_o government_n of_o your_o several_a congregation_n for_o matter_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o be_v exercise_v by_o their_o own_o elder_n etc._n etc._n in_o way_n of_o answer_n i_o must_v first_o complain_v of_o your_o old_a fault_n the_o slippery_a and_o uncertain_a expression_n use_v in_o the_o relation_n of_o what_o you_o own_o and_o allow_v about_o a_o church_n in_o those_o phrase_n the_o first_o church_n ordinary_o and_o at_o first_o i_o demand_v the_o reason_n of_o you_o why_o you_o put_v in_o ordinary_o and_o at_o first_o be_v it_o not_o because_o you_o foresee_v the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n and_o some_o few_o other_o record_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n though_o not_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n of_o the_o act_n and_o at_o the_o beginning_n yet_o will_v at_o last_o by_o the_o 8._o of_o the_o act_n and_o act_n 21._o amount_v to_o more_o than_o can_v meet_v in_o one_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o you_o express_v it_o so_o be_v this_o fair_a deal_n or_o what_o other_o reason_n can_v you_o give_v for_o use_v such_o doubtful_a expression_n the_o question_n be_v not_o between_o you_o and_o we_o whether_o all_o the_o church_n and_o most_o of_o the_o church_n or_o whether_o at_o first_o and_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o they_o they_o consist_v of_o no_o more_o in_o one_o city_n then_o to_o make_v up_o one_o congregation_n but_o whether_o the_o scripture_n in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o epistle_n be_v it_o first_o or_o last_o soon_o or_o late_a give_v any_o pattern_n or_o example_n of_o
church_n allow_v particular_a congregation_n such_o a_o entire_a and_o complete_a power_n to_o be_v exercise_v by_o the_o elder_n within_o themselves_o and_o wherein_o not_o such_o a_o particular_a narration_n will_v have_v carry_v in_o the_o face_n of_o it_o some_o ground_n for_o the_o defference_n of_o their_o practice_n and_o allowance_n &_o may_v have_v serve_v to_o have_v point_v out_o the_o difference_n between_o your_o way_n and_o they_o but_o second_o as_o you_o relate_v the_o way_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n it_o sound_v somewhat_o harsh_a and_o strange_a that_o their_o practice_n shall_v be_v one_o way_n and_o their_o judgement_n another_o their_o practice_n to_o govern_v each_o particular_a congregation_n by_o a_o combine_a presbytery_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o several_a congregation_n unite_v in_o one_o for_o government_n and_o yet_o in_o their_o judgement_n to_o allow_v especial_o in_o some_o case_n a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o entire_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o do_v they_o practise_v one_o way_n and_o allow_v another_o way_n or_o do_v they_o hold_v both_o way_n the_o way_n of_o god_n or_o what_o be_v it_o you_o mean_v in_o this_o narration_n of_o those_o church_n or_o can_v it_o be_v mean_v in_o the_o same_o sense_n and_o acception_n to_o practice_v one_o thing_n and_o yet_o allow_v another_o or_o will_v you_o make_v the_o lesser_a matter_n practise_v in_o their_o particular_a church_n by_o their_o own_o elder_n to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o some_o case_n wherein_o they_o allow_v particular_a congregation_n a_o entire_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o now_o the_o latter_a namely_o in_o some_o case_n can_v be_v mean_v for_o then_o this_o last_o part_n be_v no_o more_o than_o the_o first_o neither_o can_v your_o word_n of_o a_o entire_a complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n be_v mean_v of_o small_a matter_n but_o 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first_o head_n namely_o what_o some_o of_o the_o old_a non-conformists'_a grant_n place_v the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n in_o the_o eldership_n of_o each_o particular_a church_n until_o they_o do_v miscarry_v and_o then_o indeed_o subjâ—…cting_v they_o to_o presbytâ—…riall_n and_o provincial_n assembly_n and_o that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v infallible_o prove_v that_o any_o of_o the_o church_n record_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v so_o numerous_a as_o necessary_o to_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregatïon_n and_o that_o both_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o our_o non-conformists'_a all_o grant_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v several_a elder_n in_o every_o congregation_n who_o have_v power_n over_o they_o in_o the_o lord_n i_o answer_v as_o follow_v for_o mr_n cartwright_n you_o not_o quote_v which_o of_o his_o book_n you_o have_v reference_n to_o and_o so_o not_o know_v which_o to_o turn_v to_o to_o find_v out_o what_o you_o assert_v of_o he_o i_o shall_v not_o deny_v it_o but_o as_o for_o mr_n baynes_n diocesan_n trial_n which_o be_v the_o only_a book_n i_o ever_o hear_v of_o wherein_o he_o handle_v these_o point_n he_o do_v in_o the_o three_o question_n give_v the_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o the_o exercise_n of_o it_o to_o a_o unite_a multitude_n of_o presbyter_n in_o which_o book_n howsoever_o as_o intend_v his_o book_n against_o diocesan_n bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n to_o who_o all_o presbyter_n and_o church_n stand_v in_o subjection_n and_o subordination_n he_o plead_v against_o they_o for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o particular_a elder_n in_o the_o several_a congregation_n yet_o as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n practice_v namely_o of_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n consist_v of_o many_o particular_a congregation_n and_o rule_v by_o the_o elder_n of_o several_a congregation_n combine_v he_o plead_v not_o but_o express_o in_o answer_n make_v to_o those_o two_o objection_n from_o the_o church_n and_o elder_n where_o there_o be_v a_o co-ordination_a and_o a_o communiâ—…y_n in_o government_n as_o in_o the_o low_a country_n and_o at_o géneva_n he_o grant_v the_o thing_n contend_v for_o against_o your_o congregationall_a way_n even_o before_o miscarry_v and_o show_v thâ—…_n great_a difference_n between_o the_o diocesan_n government_n and_o the_o presbyterial_a in_o several_a particular_n and_o answer_v your_o objection_n which_o you_o common_o make_v of_o a_o foreign_a extrinsicall_a power_n and_o for_o your_o better_a satisfaction_n read_v and_o compare_v together_o the_o passage_n in_o these_o page_n of_o mr_n baynes_n diocesan_n trial_n page_n 21_o page_n 11._o what_o be_v mean_v by_o a_o diocesan_n church_n and_o in_o the_o 12_o page_n two_o first_o conclusion_n agree_v in_o and_o in_o the_o 16_o page_n and_o for_o the_o non-conformists'_a in_o their_o write_n against_o the_o episcopal_a government_n and_o diocesan_n church_n though_o they_o put_v the_o bishop_n their_o adversary_n all_o they_o can_v to_o it_o to_o make_v they_o prove_v infallible_o and_o necessary_o a_o particular_a church_n to_o
by_o what_o i_o have_v answer_v already_o both_o of_o the_o weakness_n of_o that_o ground_n a_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n and_o that_o in_o all_o reason_n you_o can_v not_o but_o expect_v exclamation_n that_o you_o be_v not_o enforce_v by_o that_o to_o make_v this_o apology_n and_o to_o anticipate_v the_o discovery_n of_o yourselves_o be_v scholar_n and_o understand_a man_n you_o may_v blush_v to_o write_v that_o such_o poor_a thing_n shall_v enforce_v you_o against_o your_o resolution_n but_o you_o be_v willing_a and_o desirous_a to_o make_v such_o a_o anticipation_n and_o so_o you_o will_v make_v and_o find_v some_o ground_n for_o it_o judge_v a_o sorry_a excuse_n better_o than_o none_o at_o all_o but_o however_o you_o be_v not_o enforce_v to_o anticipate_v yet_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o this_o aoplogie_n be_v a_o anticipation_n with_o a_o witness_n such_o a_o anticipation_n both_o for_o the_o unseasonablenesse_n of_o it_o and_o for_o the_o 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they_o of_o your_o own_o way_n as_o namely_o to_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n those_o english_a church_n at_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n etc._n etc._n and_o will_v you_o have_v submit_v to_o those_o church_n to_o have_v so_o proceed_v upon_o offence_n and_o difference_n among_o you_o 3._o how_o long_o be_v it_o be_v it_o not_o for_o the_o space_n of_o between_o a_o year_n and_o two_o that_o mr_n ward_n stand_v depose_v and_o lay_v aside_o from_o his_o ministry_n and_o maintenance_n before_o he_o be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o late_a remedy_n and_o iâ—…_n it_o so_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n 4._o when_o and_o at_o what_o time_n be_v this_o principle_n of_o sâ—…bmission_n and_o your_o solemn_a practice_n both_o of_o â—…equiring_v the_o church_n offend_v to_o give_v a_o account_n with_o their_o châ—…arfull_a submit_v
your_o brethren_n be_v of_o two_o distinct_a church_n and_o communion_n you_o set_v up_o new_a because_o you_o can_v continue_v in_o the_o old_a with_o they_o and_o certain_o man_n of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n and_o communion_n differ_v less_o among_o themselves_o than_o person_n of_o a_o church_n and_o communion_n set_v up_o against_o that_o church_n but_o least_o from_o this_o passage_n your_o follower_n shall_v make_v use_n to_o tax_v the_o minister_n of_o our_o church_n who_o have_v desire_a reformation_n with_o inconstancy_n and_o go_v according_a to_o the_o time_n and_o yourselves_o make_v use_v of_o it_o to_o defend_v your_o run_v so_o far_o in_o your_o way_n the_o minister_n differ_v far_o more_o from_o themselves_o within_o this_o three_o year_n pass_v then_o you_o do_v from_o they_o i_o must_v propound_v this_o to_o prevent_v those_o consequence_n namely_o that_o most_o of_o your_o brethren_n both_o of_o the_o assembly_n and_o of_o other_o part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n differ_v little_a from_o themselves_o in_o judgement_n from_o what_o they_o hold_v three_o year_n past_a or_o many_o year_n past_a namely_o may_v they_o have_v have_v their_o desire_n and_o can_v their_o vote_n have_v carry_v it_o they_o will_v have_v vote_v out_o ceremony_n government_n by_o archbishop_n bishop_n etc._n etc._n this_o lyturgie_n and_o service-book_n and_o though_o they_o now_o practise_v not_o many_o thing_n they_o do_v before_o but_o forbear_v yet_o some_o thing_n be_v forbear_v as_o be_v matter_n of_o offence_n among_o the_o people_n and_o other_o thing_n as_o have_v be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n in_o the_o church_n and_o now_o there_o be_v so_o open_a a_o door_n for_o a_o full_a reformation_n they_o do_v labour_n after_o the_o best_a and_o follow_v what_o they_o judge_v most_o for_o edification_n now_o not_o condemn_v all_o their_o former_a practice_n especial_o consider_v those_o time_n unlawful_a and_o sinful_a and_o withal_o to_o consider_v we_o as_o those_o who_o in_o these_o former_a time_n apolog._n for_o many_o year_n suffer_v even_o to_o exile_n for_o what_o the_o kingdom_n itself_o now_o suffer_v in_o the_o endeavour_n to_o cast_v out_o and_o who_o in_o these_o present_a time_n and_o since_o the_o change_n of_o they_o have_v endure_v that_o which_o to_o our_o spirit_n be_v no_o less_o grievous_a the_o opposition_n and_o reproach_n of_o good_a man_n even_o to_o the_o threaten_n of_o another_o banishment_n and_o have_v be_v through_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o the_o same_o man_n in_o both_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o these_o variety_n and_o final_o as_o those_o that_o do_v pursue_v no_o other_o interest_n or_o design_n but_o a_o subsistence_n be_v it_o the_o poor_a and_o mean_a in_o our_o own_o land_n where_o we_o have_v and_o may_v do_v further_a service_n and_o which_o be_v our_o birthright_n as_o we_o be_v man_n with_o the_o enjoyment_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v our_o portion_n as_o we_o be_v christian_n with_o the_o allowance_n of_o a_o latitude_n to_o some_o lesser_a difference_n with_o peaceablenesse_n as_o not_o know_v where_o else_o with_o safety_n health_n and_o livelihood_n to_o set_v our_o foot_n on_o earth_n for_o my_o part_n i_o wonder_v with_o what_o face_n you_o can_v write_v this_o and_o withal_o to_o consider_v we_o as_o those_o who_o in_o these_o former_a time_n for_o many_o year_n suffer_v even_o to_o exile_n and_o bring_v it_o as_o a_o argument_n to_o the_o parliament_n to_o consider_v you_o the_o more_o namely_o to_o grant_v you_o a_o toleration_n all_o the_o answer_n i_o shall_v return_v be_v that_o the_o parliament_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v and_o may_v do_v well_o to_o look_v upon_o you_o and_o consider_v you_o instead_o of_o many_o year_n suffer_v even_o to_o exile_n as_o man_n who_o voluntary_o go_v into_o another_o country_n nigh_o at_o hand_n to_o live_v safe_o out_o of_o gunshot_n and_o there_o live_v rich_o plentiful_o and_o free_o while_o other_o godly_a minister_n live_v here_o in_o continual_a fear_n danger_n toss_n suspension_n attachment_n and_o consumption_n of_o their_o estate_n it_o be_v strange_a that_o man_n shall_v be_v so_o far_o partial_a as_o to_o frame_v a_o argument_n and_o make_v account_v the_o more_o to_o be_v consider_v and_o favour_v for_o fly_v away_o and_o desert_v the_o cause_n in_o the_o open_a field_n suppose_v some_o captain_n and_o soldier_n in_o the_o parliament_n service_n shall_v put_v up_o a_o petition_n to_o the_o house_n forasmuch_o as_o they_o leave_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o army_n in_o distress_n and_o withdraw_v in_o the_o day_n of_o battle_n and_o never_o return_v till_o the_o enemy_n be_v put_v to_o the_o worst_a and_o the_o battle_n turn_v therefore_o they_o will_v be_v please_v to_o afford_v they_o a_o exemption_n from_o common_a tax_n etc._n etc._n and_o vouchsafe_v they_o some_o special_a privilege_n what_o will_v you_o think_v of_o such_o a_o motion_n the_o application_n be_v obvious_a you_o desert_v the_o cause_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o in_o you_o lay_v hazard_v all_o and_o yet_o be_v not_o content_a with_o this_o to_o come_v in_o upon_o the_o victory_n and_o divide_v the_o spoil_n with_o those_o who_o help_v to_o win_v the_o field_n to_o enjoy_v the_o prime_a lecture_n and_o place_n in_o and_o near_o the_o city_n both_o of_o note_n and_o profit_n with_o all_o respect_n and_o countenance_n from_o parliament_n and_o city_n but_o you_o will_v have_v peculiar_o and_o enjoy_v such_o a_o way_n as_o shall_v shut_v out_o all_o in_o comparison_n a_o unreasonable_a request_n and_o a_o strange_a instance_n for_o all_o posterity_n if_o it_o shall_v be_v grant_v for_o our_o part_n many_o of_o we_o who_o bear_v the_o heat_n of_o the_o day_n stand_v to_o it_o and_o venture_v break_v and_o undo_v many_o time_n over_o request_v no_o such_o favour_n nor_o exemption_n but_o to_o take_v our_o lot_n in_o common_a with_o the_o kingdom_n and_o minister_n in_o thing_n establish_v and_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n that_o upon_o any_o consideration_n either_o extrinsicall_a or_o intrinsicall_a you_o shall_v be_v consider_v above_o the_o godly_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o know_v and_o can_v give_v many_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o beside_o that_o i_o have_v before_o full_o speak_v more_o than_o once_o how_o little_a there_o be_v in_o this_o argument_n of_o you_o so_o often_o inculcate_v of_o exile_n and_o suffer_v to_o exile_n the_o cause_n here_o render_v by_o you_o of_o your_o suffer_v even_o to_o exile_n namely_o for_o what_o the_o kingdom_n itself_o now_o suffer_v in_o the_o endeavour_n to_o cast_v out_o be_v not_o true_a nor_o proper_a for_o however_o the_o kingdom_n now_o suffer_v for_o cast_v out_o the_o hierarchy_n and_o some_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o for_o a_o reformation_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n yet_o your_o suffering_n unto_o exile_n be_v not_o for_o that_o for_o which_o the_o non-conformists'_a more_o forward_o than_o you_o suffer_v but_o your_o leave_v the_o kingdom_n be_v to_o enjoy_v the_o church_n way_n without_o which_o we_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o be_v content_v though_o ceremony_n episcopacy_n and_o lyturgie_n be_v now_o cast_v out_o by_o the_o kingdom_n as_o the_o fruit_n of_o all_o their_o suffering_n but_o if_o presbytery_n be_v settle_v and_o independency_n may_v not_o be_v tolerate_v you_o will_v go_v away_o the_o second_o time_n and_o may_v be_v call_v that_o exile_n and_o banishment_n too_o as_o for_o your_o endure_v in_o these_o present_a time_n and_o since_o the_o change_n of_o they_o that_o which_o to_o your_o spirit_n be_v no_o less_o grievous_a the_o opposition_n and_o reproach_n of_o good_a man_n by_o which_o you_o will_v further_o persuade_v and_o move_v the_o parliament_n to_o allow_v you_o a_o toleration_n let_v i_o mind_n you_o that_o i_o believe_v in_o no_o age_n five_o man_n practise_v and_o act_v as_o you_o have_v do_v contrary_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o church_n and_o of_o the_o minister_n your_o brethren_n and_o that_o to_o the_o sensible_a disadvantage_n of_o the_o public_a reformation_n ever_o meet_v with_o less_o opposition_n and_o contradiction_n of_o good_a man_n and_o as_o for_o reproach_n none_o at_o all_o i_o will_v not_o reiterate_v what_o i_o have_v former_o express_v in_o pag._n 226_o 227._o but_o it_o be_v beyond_o all_o precedent_n the_o silence_n compliance_n respect_n fair_a carriage_n you_o have_v be_v entertain_v with_o from_o the_o minister_n and_o good_a man_n neither_o luther_n that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n and_o excellent_a instrument_n nor_o other_o can_v find_v the_o like_a in_o their_o time_n from_o the_o minister_n differ_v from_o they_o and_o therefore_o the_o complaint_n be_v very_o groundless_a and_o to_o