published by Pope Pius the fourth were anciently received though newly defined by the Councell of Trent for proofe he instanceth in the first Councell of Nice and compareth that Councell and their Creed with this of Trent hee proceeds by way of recrimination to question the 39. Articles of our Church he accuseth us for corrupting and misinterpreting the Scriptures for declining Traditions Fathers and Councels hee excuseth their Index Expurgatorius and accuseth us for falsifying the Fathers and lastly he concludeth with the doctrine of implicite faith and this is the substance and contents of his answer to my first Chapter All which and whatsoever else is materially contained therein and the rest of his sections following I will take into severall parts distinctly and returne him a moderate answer The Reply to Mr. Lloyd FIrst touching your Trent Creed you complaine that according to the common fashion of our Ministers by way of derision I divide it into twelve points as it were into twelve Articles which say you he and they might with as much reason divide it into foure and twentie Here you begin to quarrell at your first entrance but I hope you will gladly forgive us this wrong for if wee accuse your Trent Fathers for coyning twelve Articles in stead of foure and twentie they and you are more beholding to us for laying the lesser number to your charge and yet if you please to review them you shall finde they fall most naturally within the number of twelve But you would know what difference there is betwixt the Councell of Nice and the Councell of Trent and their two Creeds Let mee tell you if ever the proverb held true Comparisons are odious it holds betwixt the two Councels and their two Creeds the Councell of Trent is not worthy to be named the day wherein the Councell of Nice is mentioned That famous Councell of Nice was the first and best generall Assembly after the Apostles time that was summoned in the Christian world it had in it 318. Bishops Totius orbis terrarum lumina saith Victorinus amongst whom were the foure Patriarchs of the Easterne and Westerne Churches It was called by the first and best Christian Emperour Quasi servator medicus animarum Euseb in vita Conslant orat 3. c. 10. Constantine the Great who was Vocalissimus Dei praeco and as it were the Preserver and Physitian of our soules saith Eusebius This Emperour exhorted the Fathers and Bishops of that Councell Omni igitur seditios â contentione depulsâ literarum divinitùs inspiratarum testimoniis res in quaestionem adduct as dissolvamus Theod. Hist Eccl. l. 1. c. 7. p. 208. to lay aside seditious contention and resolve all doubts and questions by the testimonies of divine Scriptures and accordingly they framed their Creed out of the doctrine of the Apostles and all who were not of the Arrian faction did assent and agree to it saith Theodoret. Now take a view of your Trent Councell and compare them together Your Councell of Trent like Demetrius Assembly was summoned by Pope Paul the third without a lawfull calling the three Patriarchs of Constantinople of Antioch of Alexandria refused to be present the Legates of the Kingdome of Denmark of Suetia and the Dukedome of Prusia were all absent and returned their answer that the a Gravamina opposita Concil Trid. Causa 1. pag. 21. Pope had no right to call a Councell Our Queene b Epit. rerum in orbe gest sub Ferd. 1. ann 1561. apud Scard tom 3. p. 2171. E Belgio in Insulam trajicere prohibuit ibid. Elizabeth of blessed memory disavowed the Councell in so much that when the Pope sent Hieronymus Martinengus as Legate into England to summon our Bishops shee would not suffer him to land or set his foot on her Dominions The French King signifieth by his Legate James Amiot that hee for his part neither held it for a generall not yet for a lawfull Councell but for a private Conventicle and accordingly hee wrote Conventui Tridentino The Emperour Innoc Gentil sess 12. and Hist of Trent l. 4. p. 319. Illyric in Protest contr Concil Trid. Charles the fifth declared by his Embassadour Hurtado Mendoza in the name of the whole Empire that the Bishops wholly hanging at the Popes becke had no authoritie to make lawes in causes of reformation of religion and manners Andreas Dudithius Dudith in Ep. ad Maximil 2. de Calice Sacerdotum conjugio the Bishop of five Churches told the Emperours Maximilian and Ferdinand that the Trent Fathers were like a paire of countrey Bag-pipes which unlesse they were still blowne into could make no musick The Holy Ghost had nothing to doe with that Councell and therefore they could create no new Articles of faith Your historie of Trent tels us The historie of Trent the Spirit was sent in a Carriers cloak-bag from Rome to Trent but when there fell store of raine the Holy Ghost could not come before the flouds were abated and so it fell out that the Spirit was not carried upon the waters as wee read in Genesis but besides them Looke upon your Bishops they were but fortie and two at the first meeting and two of them titular the rest for the most part saith Dudithius were but hirelings Andr. Dudith ut suprà young men and beardlesse hired and procured by the Pope to speake as hee would have them To say nothing of those Emperours who called the first and best Councels and were present in person when as the Popes send but their Legates Euseb in vitâ Constant orat 3. c. 16. Ego intereram Concilio saith Constantine I was present at the Councell amongst you as one of you Touching his Imperiall seat in the Councell Ibid. c. 10. his throne was very great and passed all the rest saith Eusebius whereas there is no greater distance in the time Advertendum quod locus ubi sedet Imperator 〈…〉 tenet 〈◊〉 Pontifex Liber Ceremon l. 2. c. 2. than there is now difference in the places for the Emperour is allowed but to sit at the Popes foot-stoole and it is specially to bee noted saith your booke of ceremonies that the place whereupon the Emperour sitteth may bee no higher than the place where the Pope setteth his feet Your Councell of Trent hath made many decrees for reformation of manners but did they ever reforme this abuse and restore the ancient custome You then that are so confident in equalling those two Councels doe you thinke there is no difference betwixt a conventicle and a generall Councell betwixt a Councell lawfully called and one summoned by usurpation betwixt a late Councell held in a corner of the world in the worst age and an ancient Councell in a most famous citie held in the most flourishing age betwixt a Councell that layes her sole foundation in the Scriptures and one that builds her first Article of faith upon Traditions Bulla Pii
doct Fidei Tom. 1. l. 2. Art 2. c. 22. p. 203. viz. that the Church could not create a new article of faith How can any such article saith he framed after many yeares be catholique and universall when as it was unknowne to our fore-fathers for foureteen hundred yeares before It was not beleeved because not heard of when the Apostle tels us faith commeth by hearing Such an article therefore although it be of faith yet it cannot be catholique and this hee proves directly from Fathers and Councels And whereas you affirme that your Church can no more make an article of faith than shee can make a Canonicall Booke of Scripture Canus loc Theol. l. 2. c. 7. p. 38. Canus your Bishop of Canaries will joyne with you That the Church of the faithfull now living cannot write a Canonicall Booke of Scripture and hee gives the reason for it There are not now any new revelations to be expected ither from the Pope or from a Councell or from the universall Church and from hence it will follow of consequence by your owne Logick Therefore the Church can create no new article of faith Thus farre I have waded in your behalfe that you may the better justifie your owne Assertion for you wil find your Church is like a house divided against it selfe and therefore cannot stand long I say that Quere which was made in Waldens dayes was resolved above two hundred yeares before by your profound Schoole-man Thomas Aquinas in your Churches behalfe that the Pope had power Condere articulos fidei to create new articles of faith to remove therefore these fig-leaves with which you would cover the naked truth This learned Doctour well understood that there were many new articles of religion crept into the Church in his dayes he knew well that albeit he were the prime Schoole man of his time yet with all his sophistrie hee could not make them comply with the ancient Catholique faith and thereupon he thought it the surest way to give the Pope an absolute and independant power over faith and religion and accordingly resolved Ad solam authoritatem summi Pontificis pertinet nova Editio Symboli sicut alia omnia quae pertinent ad totam Ecclesiam Thom. 2.2 q. 1. Art 10. It belongs onely to the authoritie of the Soveraigne Pope to make a new Edition of the Creed and all things else that concerne the universall Church Then he concludes the question and gives this reason for it The publishing of a new Creed belongs to his power who hath authoritie finally to determine matters of faith and this saith he belongs unto the Pope Upon which passages Andradius a chiefe pillar of your Trent Councell confesseth that the Bishops of Rome Romanos Pontifices multa definiendo quae anteà latitabant Symbolum Fidei augere consuevisse Andrad Def. Concil Trid. lib. 2. in defining many things which had beene formerly hidden have been accustomed to increase their Creed Now what thinke you of your Aquinas position and your Andradius confession I hope you perceive that your learned Schoole-men are of another opinion And that you may know that your Church doth not approve your pretended Tenet for Catholique doctrine hearken and consider what your holy Father the Pope declareth touching this question and then consider in what case you stand Pope Leo the tenth sent out his Bull against Luther and amongst other articles Certum est in manu Ecclesiae aut Papae prorsus non esse statuere articulos fidei Tom. 4. Conc. Par. 2. in Bulla Leon. 10. in fine Lateran Conc. novissimi p. 135. he chargeth him in particular with this that Luther should say It is certaine that it is no way in the power of the Church or Pope to ordaine articles of faith This you see is Luthers Tenet and this is yours Now what exception think you might the Pope take at this your Assertion Behold for this and the like Tenets he thundereth Anathema against him hee declareth this with the rest of his Articles to be a pestiferous pernicious scandalous and seducing errour to well-minded men he protesteth it was contrarie to all charitie contrarie to the reverence of the holy Church and mysteries of faith and in conclusion condemnes all his Articles as hereticall Inhibentes in virtute sanctae obedientiae ac sub majoris excommunicationis latae sententiae Ibid. p. 136. forbids them to be received by vertue of holy obedience and under paine of the graund Excommunication You have heard the sentence of your Lord Paramount and by it you may know your owne doome If you hold with Luther you are in danger of Excommunication and stand as a condemned heretique by his Holinesse with the Lutherans If you forsake your hold you have lost your faith And thus you have a wolfe by the eares you stand in danger whether you hold him or let him goe I wonder that you having taken so long a time to answer so poore a Work and having many Assistants for the composing of it they and you could be all ignorant of the Popes infallible Bull. Your Cardinall Bellarmine Quasi Ecclesia posterioris temporis aut deserit esse Ecclesia aut facultatem non habeat explicandi declarandi constituendi etiam jubendi quae ad fidem mores Christianos pertinent Bell. in Barcl who in these latter times hath laboured more than any other to uphold your new Articles of faith yet in obedience to the Pope and saving all advantages to his cause when in the question of deposing Kings he failed of antiquitie and proofe out of Scriptures and Fathers at last returnes this peremptorie answer As if the Church of these latter times had ceased to be a Church or had not power to explaine and declare yea to ordaine and command those things which appertaine to faith and Christian manners and that you may know that you and your Co-adjutors stand single in opinion against the Pope and his Cardinals your Jesuite Salmeron will shew you Doctrina fidei admittit additionem in essentialibus Salm. Tom. 13. Disp 6. Par. 3. §. Est ergo Idem Disp 8. that it stands with great reason to make additions in essentiall points of faith and hee gives this answer for it Because nature is not capable of all truths at one time and from this and the like reasons he concludes therefore there may be new traditions concerning faith and manners though they were never created or declared by the Apostles Thus you see the unitie amongst your selves and howsoever these positions may seeme strange to you and others of your opinions yet your Schoolmen and Lawyers have played the Popes Midwives yea Pope Leo the tenth hath put to his helping hand to deliver your Pope Pius the fourth of that issue I meane those new borne Articles of which your Church hath so long time before travailed Briefly let mee tell you your Articles are detected by your owne men
it cannot be denyed that the Protestants in all their Translations have a recourse still to the Originall of Hebrew and Greek which was inspired by the Holy Ghost and these they preferre before all Latine and Vulgar Translations whatsoever Bibl. Complut in Proefat on the other side your Translation as your Interpreters fancie hangeth betweene the Greek and Hebrew as Christ hung betweene two theeves Nay more your men esteeme the Vulgar Latine before the Originall Bell. de verbo Dei lib. 2. c. 11. Not saith Bellarmine that the rivers of Translations should be preferred before the fountaines of Hebrew and Greeke of the Prophets and Apostles but because the fountaine is muddie in many places which otherwise should runne cleare for without doubt as the Latine Church hath beene more constant in keeping the faith than the Greeke so likewise it hath beene more vigilant in preserving her bookes from corruption These Paradoxes doe open a gap to Atheisme for if the originall Scripture be corrupted what assurance what certaintie can wee have of true faith and religion and if wee doubt wee are condemned already Neither can it enter into my thoughts that profane Writers should bee preserved in their simple purenesse from their first ages and that their Translations should remaine in subjection to their copies from whence they are derived to be examined by them and yet the Watchman of Israel who neither slumbers nor sleepes for want of providence should suffer his sacred Word become a Tributarie to a Translation But by this the world may see the guiltinesse of a bad cause you will rather charge the word of God it selfe with corruption than faile to make good the corruptions of your owne Church Your learned Andradius condemnes them that preferred the Latine before the Hebrew of the Old Testament as pretending it was corrupted by the Jewes Andrad def fidei Trident. l. 4. It was very inconsiderately conceived saith he by some that there was more credit to bee given to the Latine Edition than to the Hebrew because the Latine ever remained entire uncorrupt in the Catholique Church and the Hebrew was falsified depraved by the perfidiousnesse of the Jewes And your owne Sixtus Senensis doth witnesse of the Greeke Text likewise Sixt. Senens Biblioth l. 7. that it is the same which was used in the dayes of S. Hierome and long before him in the Apostles times and is free from hereticall corruptions as by the continuall writings of the Greeke Fathers as namely Dionysius Justinus Irenaeus Melito Origen Affricanus Apolinarius Athanasius Eusebius Basil Chrysostome Theophylact doth most plainly appeare and yet your Gregory Martin and the Rhemists are not ashamed to professe that the Translation which they follow is not onely better then all other Latine but even than the Greeke Text it selfe Preface to the Rhem. Testam in those places where they disagree To examine your Translation in generall and so descend into the particulars of yours and ours First it is decreed by the Councell of Trent that amongst divers Translations then in use Concil Trid. Sess 4. Decretam de editione librorum the old and vulgar Translation should be declared to be authenticall in all publike Lectures Disputations Sermons and Expositions and that no man should dare or presume to reject it upon any pretext whatsoever What Translation was understood by the old vulgar was not expressed in the Councell It is pretended to be and is called at this day St. Hieromes Translation and which is remarkable the Translation was decreed but by 42. Bishops at the first beginning of the Councell From hence ariseth the first Quere which of St. Hieromes Translations your Church doth follow for St. Hierome confesseth that the first was corrupt and accordingly he did correct many things in his first Translation To this Objection your Cardinall makes this faire and free confession Bell. de verbo Dei l. 2. c. 9. Although Hierome did perceive some things fit to be changed and afterwards did change them yet the Church did adjudge the first translation for true and chose rather to keep that for the vulgar Edition And then he concludes Although the greatest part of the vulgar Translation be Hieromes yet it is not that pure Edition which he translated out of the Hebrew but in a manner mixt Habemus confitentem reum Now heare your owne Sixtus Senensis Albeit he pretends that the different readings in the Bible be no prejudice to the Faith Sixt. Senens Bibl. l. 8. p. 664. yet saith he wee ing enuously confesse that many errours were corrected by Hierome in the old Translation and likewise there are found in our new Editions some falsifications solecismes barbarismes and many things ambiguous not well expressed in the Latine some things changed other things omitted and the like Here both confesse that Hieromes first Translation was erroneous and the one saith that your Church hath chosen that which is not pure nor agreeable to the Hebrew the other confesseth it hath Barbarismes and untruths To speake ingeniously the Sunne never saw any thing more defective and maimed than the vulgar Latine Your Bishop Lyndan cryes aloud Lynd. de opt genere Interpret l. 3. c. 1 2 4.6 and protesteth it hath monstrous corruptions of all sorts scarce one coppie can be found that hath one booke of Scripture undefiled many points are translated so intricately and darkly some impertinently and abusively some not so fully nor so well and truly sundry places thrust out of their plaine and naturall sense the Translatour possibly was no Latinist but a smattering Grecian I proceed to the examination of more witnesses About forty yeares after Pope Paul the third had decreed the vulgar Latin in your Councel of Trent Sixtus Quintus by his Breve prefixed to his Bible gives us to understand that certaine Roman Catholikes were of such an humour of translating the Scripture into Latin Breve Sixti 5. that Sathan taking occasion by them though they thought no such matter did strive what he could out of uncertaine and great variety of Translation so to mingle all things that nothing might seeme to be left certaine and firme in them and thereupon hee takes occasion to publish a Latine Translation of his owne perusall and withall makes his Declaration of it in this manner We of our certaine knowledge and fulnesse of Apostolicall power Sixt. 5. in Bulla praefix Bibliis An. 1588. doe ordaine and declare that the Edition of the vulgar Bible of the Old and New Testament which was received by the Councell of Trent as authenticall without any doubt or Controversie is to be reputed or taken for this onely Edition which being as well as was possible reformed and printed in our Vatican our will and pleasure is and we doe decree it to be read throughout the whole Christian World in all Churches with this our determination and satisfaction for all men That first it was allowed
lust and riot of his wordly state which he hath lifted up above Kings and Emperours Lastly he complaines that the Study of Divinity is made a mocking stocke and that which was most monstrous for the Popes themselves they preferred their owne traditions before the Commandements of God These bee the pretended errors Mr. Floyd which causeth your Index expurgatorius to spare no Author for his age and yet you tell us such corner-correcting you leave for such corner-companions as shunne the light p. 144. Aeneas Sylvius who was afterwards Pope Pius the second is forbidden by your Index and the reason is given for it Aeneas wrote in behalfe of the Councell of Basil when he was a young man saith a Bell. de script Eccles de Aenea Sylvio p. 289. An. 1450. Bellarmine but when he was an old man and Pope he retracted it and so his Bookes are deservedly forbidden But what say you then to his Retractations are you pleased with them No b Cautè legenda opera Aeneae Sylvii ipse enim in Bulla Retractationis nonnulla quae scripserat daÌ„navit c. Ind. lib. prohib Class 2. a. p. 3. you must yet warily read the Workes of Aeneas Sylvius for in his Bull of Retractations hee hath condemned something himselfe which he had written and therefore when a new Edition shall come out let that Bull also be purged in the beginning of his Workes It seemes then neither that which hee wrote as a private man in his younger dayes nor that which he retracted as Pope in his latter dayes are well pleasing to your Church Let us therefore compare the difference of his Doctrine with the difference of his degrees and then you shall observe whether according to the ancient saying Honours have changed manners Aeneas Sylvius as a private man protested that c Antè NicenaÌ„ Synodum unusquisque sibi vixit parvus respectus ad EcclesiaÌ„ Romanam habebatur Aene. Sylv. in Epist 288. before the Councell of Nice each Bishop lived severally to himselfe and little regard was there then had to the Church of Rome Pope Pius the second being the same man but onely that hee was now become a Pope doth exhort and d Suadete omnibus ut id solium prae caeteris venerentur in quo salvator Dominus suos vicarios collocavit c. Bulla Retract Pii 2. Tom. Concil 4. post Concil Floren. p. 739. perswade all that they would reverence the See of Rome or that Throne of Majesty above all Aeneas Sylvius saith They thinke themselves well armed with authority that say no Councell may be kept without the consent of the Pope Ex hisce authoritatibus mirum in modum se putant armatos qui CoÌ„cilia nâ—gant fieri posse sine consensu Papae QuoruÌ„ sententia si ut ipst volunt inviolata persistat ruinaÌ„ secum Ecclesiae trahet Quid enim remedli erit si criminosus Papa perturbet Ecclesiam si animas perdat si pervertat malo exemplo populos si denique contraria fidei praedicet haereticisque dogmatibus inbuat subditos sinemusque cum ipso cuncta ruere At ego dum veteres lego historias dumastus perspicio Apostolorum hunc equidem morem non invenio ut soli Papae Concilia convocaverint nec post tempore Constantini magni alioruÌ„ AugustoruÌ„ adcongreganda Concilia quaesitus est magnopere Romani consensus Papae Idem de Concil Basil l. 1. Whose judgement if it should stand as they would have it would draw with it the decay and ruine of the Church For what remedy were there then if the Pope himselfe were vitious destroyed soules overthrew the people with evill example taught Doctrine contrary to the faith and filled his subjects full of Heresies should wee suffer all to goe to the Devill Verily when I read the old Stories and consider the acts of the Apostles I finde no such order in those dayes that onely the Pope should summon Councels And afterward the time of Constantine the Great and of other Emperours when Councels should be called there was no great accompt made of the Popes consent On the contrary Pope a Bulla Pii 2. Retractat p. mihi 739. Pius saith Order requireth that inferiours should be governed by their superiours and all should appertaine to one as the Prince and Governour of all things which are below him As Geese follow one for a leader and amongst the Bees there is but one King even so in the Church militant as also in the Church triumphant there is one Governour and Judge of all which is the Vicar of Christ Jesus from whence as from a head all power and authoritie is derived into the subordinate members Thus when he was young and had read the old Stories and considered the acts of the Apostles hee found no such Authority and respect given to the Pope but when he was Pope and old it seemes he forgat the Apostles and ancient Writers then hee attributes all power and reverence to the Pope of Rome Briefly Aeneas Sylvius saith a De Româ—nis Pontificibus liceret exempla admodum multa adferre si tempus sineret quoniam aut haeretici aut aliis imbuti vitiis sunt reperti Idem de Concil Basil lib. 1. Of the Popes of Rome wee might shew forth very many examples if time would permit that they have beene found either Hereticks or else defiled with other vices But Pope Pius saith speaking of these and the like assertions b Pudet erroris poenitet malè fecisse male dictoruÌ„ scriptorumque vehementer poenitet c. Bull. Retract ut supra I am ashamed of my error I earnestly repent both of my words and deeds and I say Lord remember not the faults and ignorance of my youth And thus being Pope saving all advantages to his See he hath condemned him selfe and his Writings as published by him when he was a private man and yet notwithstanding the Inquisitors professe hee hath retracted that as Pope which afterwards hee condemned and therefore by their doome hee must have a new purgation and from thenceforth Tum Pius Aeneas But tell mee I pray was hee Pius Aeneas when he complained that at Rome the c Nam ipsae manus impositiones Spiritus sancti dona venduntur Aene. Sylv. Ep. 66. imposition of hands and the gifts of the Holy Ghost were sold for money Was hee Pius Aeneas when he complained that the Court of d Quid est Romana curia his qui summam tenent nisi turpissimum pelagus ventis undique durissimis reÌ„pestatibus agitatuÌ„ Idem Ep. 188. Rome in the chief amongst them was but a most filthy Sea tossed on every side with winds and strong tempests Was hee Pius Aeneas when he protested with griefe that e Jacet spreta religio justitiae nullus honos fides penè incognita Ep. 398. religion was despised righteousnesse dishonoured faith in a manner unknowne Or was hee Pius
Aeneas when he retracted as Pope that which he had written or when he condemned that which hee had retracted No surely he was Pius in nothing in the opinion of your Church but in his Bull of Retractations and he was Aeneas in nothing more than in condemning that which he retracted And accordingly he himselfe beggs of your Church Bulla Retractat Pii 2. Illud Gentile nomen parentes indidere nascenti hoc Christianum in Apostolatu suscepimus Ibid. Pium recipite Aeneam rejicite Receive you Pius but reject Aeneas and he gives his reason for it Aeneas is a heathenish Name which our Parents gave us at our Birth but Pius is a Christian name which we assumed in our Apostolike calling You may adde to this Aeneas was a private man and subject unto errour but Pius was a Pope and therefore in his determinations infallible or rather you may truly say with him Nihil mentiti sumus nihil ad gratiam nihil ad odium retulimus Bulla Retractat that Aeneas before he was Pope delivered the truth neither for feare nor hatred and yet he was forced to retract it but Pius * Cum doctrinā non sanam suspectam quae offensionem parere potest contineant c. Class 2. in Ind. lib. prohibit when he was Pope delivered false and suspected doctrine and such as was offensive to your Church and for that cause is commanded to bee purged Quid Pius Aeneas in te committere tantùm What ill hap had good Aeneas or rather what ill fortune had Pope Pius that he could neither satisfie your Church either as he was Aeneas or as he was Pius neither as a private Doctor nor as an infallible Pope Rivet Criticū Sacr. Specimen c. 7. p. 49. or rather I may say with your owne Canus What doth it availe men who desire to know the truth to raze Records out of their Bookes when they cannot blot it out of their mindes Petrus Crinitus was a Romish Priest Anno 1450. and is commanded to be purged and if we shall examine the reason we shall finde it for no other cause but that he speakes the truth against your Pope and Popish Doctrine To instance in particulars Let both the Title and the Chapter be razed say your Inquisitors touching Pope Boniface the 8. Petr. Crinit l. 7. c. 13. de dom Disciplinâ and the reason is pregnant that Chapter shewes the insosolencie and pride of the Pope in particular in matter of fact and it further declares that under pretence of Religion the Popes in generall thinke they may doe what they list Againe when he speakes of ancient Lawes Idem l. 14. c. 5. made in generall for Marriage and propagation of Children they command that page to be strucken out and there can be no other reason but because on the contrary it is a positive law of your Church to forbid Marriage Lastly whereas he shewes that Leo the Emperour made an Edict Idem l. 9. c. 9. that all Images in Churches and houses of the Christians should be razed and hee declares in his opinion that it doth not appertaine to Religion to adore any mans Image and that Valens and Theodosius made Proclamation to all Christians that they would suffer no man to fashion to grave or paint the Image of our Saviour either in colours or in stone or in any other kinde of metall or matter and that wheresoever any such Image should bee found they commanded it to be taken downe Index Belgic p. 421. Index Madrid p. 150. Ind. lib. prohibit p. 79. 718. Bulla Pii 4. Art 9. Art 22. These and the like passages your Inquisitors in three severall Indices command to be razed out and what cause can you pretend but that it makes against a speciall Article of your faith viz. that Images should be set up in Churches and worshipped and by this meanes you strike likewise at the Articles of our Church and when you have made such Doctrines and Evidences invisible by razing the records then you bid us shew where the Church was visible before Luther Now what credit shall the Reader give unto you and to your Trent Councell that would assure us that your Church intended the purging of no Authors but from the yeare 1515. when as it appeares plainely that you have spared neither the writings of the Apostles nor the Fathers in razing and falsifying their owne very words and sentences And as touching other Authors in the latter ages you have gone beyond your Commission hundreds of years in falsifying corrupting forbidding and purging them and this was long before your prefixed yeare of 1515. In the sixteenth age Luther began his Heresie saith Bellarmine Anno 1517. Anno 1517. Bell. Chronol p. 3. pag. 117. and your Church to make some shew that your Index Expurgatorius had a relation onely to Luther and his followers tooke her rise from the yeare 1515. which was but two yeares before his comming as if all the members of your Church before his comming had lived in the unity of one faith and doctrine This deceivablenesse of your unrighteousnesse I have in part discovered Now I come to your Authors of this last age for I will cite none but your owne Authors and therein lieth another mysterie not inferiour to the first and that is this your Index Expurgatorius was first proclaimed generally against all Heretickes meaning the Protestants but when it comes to examination it points especially at the particular members of your owne Church and that which is most remarkable after that your Trent Councel had distinguished with Anathema's her Roman faith from the faith of Protestants after she had forbidden and condemned by her Index divers of your owne Authors as savouring of suspected and false and scandalous doctrine nay more after she had declared all to be Heretickes and their Doctrine Hereticall who would dare to teach or publish any contrary beliefe to that which was once established by a Generall Councell yet I say the members of your owne Church and those not of the meanest ranke both Bishops and Cardinals have delivered in print many points of Doctrine agreeable to the Articles of our Church and yet you say they never left the Church they are not personally to be noted nor ranked amongst Heretickes when for the very same Tenets we are accused accursed forbidden and utterly condemned as Heretickes and Reprobates and thus the head of your Church being divided from the members in points of saving faith may say unto the tongue I have no need of thee and consequently may cut it out Howsoever this use we may safely make of your Index that if in after ages by new Impressions the true doctrine of Protestants shall be razed and utterly abolished in your Roman Authors yet your very Index will appeare as a strong Evidence to shew that such doctrines were taught in former Ages and howsoever the faction in the
Roman Ferus hath left out the word ridiculum est and saith That some will have Cephas taken for the head which is most ridiculous Claudius Espencaeus Bishop of Paris lived and dyed a member of the Roman Church yet is purged because hee speakes not Placentia sutable to your Trent Doctrine In his Commentary on the Epistle to Titus in his first digression hee is commanded to be purged per quinque paginas five leaves together in which hee complaines of the abuses and corruptions growne into the Roman Church and See he shewes that their greedinesse of gaine and love of money caused them to dispence with all kindes of wickednesse as namely with unlawfull and forbidden marriages with Priests keeping of Concubines with incests murders rapes witchcraft killing of Fathers of Mothers of Brothers and things not to be named and under the name and title of the Taxes of the Apostolicke Chamber for so they terme them in which Booke saith hee being publikely and daily printed Taxae Camerae Apostolicae you may learne more wickednesse than in all the summes and catalogues of vices Then hee shewes that the Councell of Trent was a third time assembled by the command of Pius the fourth Adeo tamen Romanam curiaÌ„ repurgare non permisit yet by no meanes would hee permit that the Court of Rome should be reformed And thus in severall pages Ind. Madrid f. 60. Belg. p. 74. Delean tur illa verba in Ep. ad Tit. c. 1. p. 74 p. 76 77 78. 82 83 84. where hee complaines of the like abuses in the See and Court of Rome the Inquisitors command to be blotted out Lastly hee proves out of Gregory the Great and Saint Bernard a Ibid. p. 526. In Tit. c. 3. That every soule is subject to the higher power that is the Priesthood to the secular power the Bishops and Archbishops to Emperours and Kings and in conclusion when it is questioned saith hee touching the reformation of the Clergie and orders of Monkes for sending the Shepheards to their owne folds and compelling them to feed their owne flocks they say it is a thing that belongs to a Synod Res est synodica pontificia Ibid. p. mihi 526. and the Bishop of Rome But was there any Reformation at the Councell of Trent Did the Pope and Councell cause them to bee more diligent in their calling c. This and much more to the like purpose they command to be blotted out Polydore Virgil a member of your Church is purged in many points of Doctrine which make against you Possev Appar p. mihi 294. Tom. 2. Possevine tells us that his Booke De inventionibus rerum is permitted to be read if it be such as Pope Gregory the thirteenth commanded to be purged at Rome 1576. Now if any man list to compare that and Polydore printed at Paris 1528. Parisiis ex Officinâ Roberti Stephani Anno 1528. hee shall finde that the true Doctrine of Polydore is not allowed which protesteth against many points of Popery Polyd. de Invent Rerum l. 2. c. 23. in initio p. mihi 41. but by the Inquisitors command hee is inforced contrary to himselfe to speake the Trent language As for instance whereas the true Polydore saith When God is every where present certainly there is nothing more foolish than to counterfeit his image in your later Editions you have added these words In the beginning after the first creation there was nothing more foolish as if it were wisdome to represent God the Father in these dayes which in the beginning of the world was foolishnesse In his fifth Booke and fourth Chapter Ibid. l. 5. c. 4. p. 84. usque adp 87. your Inquisitors command seven whole pages to bee stricken out and the reason is pregnant The marriage of Priests which is prohibited by a positive Law of your Church is proved to be lawfull yea and in some case commanded by the Apostles Doctrine and justified by the examples of Saint Paul of Peter of Philip and other Apostles that had wives and he addeth that according to Saint Pauls Doctrine the Bishops and Deacons and consequently all orders of Priesthood had them and this custome saith hee continued long in the Church Porro dum sacerdotes generabant legitimos filios Ecclesia faelici prole virüm vigebat tum sanctissimi erant PoÌ„tifices Episcopi innocentissimi Presbyteri DiaconÃque inregerrimi castissimÃque Ib. p. 86 87. Ibid. c. 9. and withall concludes Furthermore whilst the Priests did beget lawfull sonnes the Church flourished with a happy off-spring of men then your Popes were most holy your Bishops most innocent your Priests and Deacons most honest and chaste Then he proves from Pope Pius the second that as Marriage upon good cause was taken from the Priests so it ought to be restored upon better This and much more concerning the marriage of Priests is commanded to be stricken out In his ninth Chapter hee saith Worship thou one true and eternall God but worship thou no Image of any living creature Ind. Belg. p. 175 deleatur say your Inquisitors let it be strucken out In his sixth Booke Idem l. 6. c. 13. and beginning of his thirteenth Chapter he testifies from St. Hierome That almost all the holy ancient Fathers did condemne the worship of Images for feare of Idolatrie He proves from the Law of Moses that nothing made with hands should be worshipped and from the Prophet David Confounded bee all they that worship graven Images Hee shewes further that Gregorie the Great albeit hee reprehended Serenus Bishop of Marsilia for breaking downe of Images yet hee commends him for forbidding the worshipping of them These and the like passages are commanded to be strucken out per octodecem lineas Ind. Belg p. 177. Ind. lib. expurg p. mihi 725. for eighteen lines together Ludovicus Vives a Priest of your second Classis is purged and namely by the Divines of Lovan Plantins print at Antwerpe 1576. in their Edition of St. Austins workes at Antwerp Anno 1576. In his Epistle to King Henry the 8th where he saith that Princes are supreme Governours on earth next under God this is commanded to be blotted out And where he saith The Saints are worshipped and esteemed by many as were the Gods among the Gentiles this passage without a command in the aforesaid Edition is razed out Againe in his Comment on the 8th Booke of the Citie of God he tells us how your Romish Priests upon good Friday doe celebrate Christs passion upon the stage There Judas saith he playeth the most ridiculous Mimick Lud. Viv. in August de Civit. Dei l. 8. c. 27. even then when he betrayes Christ there the Apostles runne away and the Souldiers follow and all resounds with laughter then comes Peter and cuts off Malchus eare and then all rings with applause as if the betraying of Christ were now revenged and by and by
the time of which the blessed Apostle prophesied when men will not suffer wholesome doctrine is altogether fulfilled in our eares For behold there are many that pervert the holy Scriptures deny the sayings of the holy Fathers reject the Canons of the Church and civill Constitutions of the Emperors Looke into the age before him Matth. Paris p. 843. Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne complaines that there was a defection a revolt an Apostasie from the true Faith Looke into Bernards time and there you shall finde by his owne confession Bernard in Cant. Serm. 33. p. mihi 673. The wound of the Church was inward and past recoverie These former complaints and grievances in the Church did sound aloud in the eares of the later ages and she made great mourning and lamentation for her children because they were not such as she first bred them and accordingly no doubt they wished for a reformation of errors in doctrine as well as Discipline in the Church Looke after Pope Alexanders time and before the Councell of Trent and your Bishop of Bitonto will shew you the state and miserable condition of your Church as it were in a Glasse In Ep. ad Roman c. 6. Alas saith he how were the Scriptures neglected in the later Ages to the detriment of all peple Rivet Sum. Controv. p. mihi 98. There was then in request a tedious and crabbed Divinitie about Relations about quiddities and formalities and all those things were handled and wrested with Syllogismes and humane Sophistrie which without doubt by the same authority as they were received might be refelled The whole Age was spent about the decrees of men which were contradictory amongst themselves and irreconcilable and nourished perpetuall contention He was accounted the best Divine that knew best how to devise the greatest wonders for his Traditions It was a part of their honour and vaine glory to speake bigge words with great lookes among women not to be understood when they disputed of the Scriptures The Preachers of the word were all sworne to the word of their Masters and from hence sprung sixe hundred Sects as namely Thomists Scotists Occhamists Alexandrians c. O heinous wickednesse The Gosspels and Epistles of the Apostles were laid aside true Divinitie lay hid and was handled of very few but coldly I will not say unfaithfully In what state the Church remained in those dayes when Papall Traditions and cunning Sophistry prevailed against the sacred Scriptures let the Reader judge Onus Ecclesiae c. 16. p. mihi 79 Your owne St. Francis foretold that the times were at hand wherein many differences should arise in the Church when charitie should waxe cold iniquity should abound and the Divell should be let loose and that the purity of his Roman Religion should be depraved and accordingly saith my Author the Image of the Crosse in the Church of St. Damian spake unto him Vade repara domum meam quae ut cernis tota labitur Goe and repaire my house which you see is altogether decayed Thus Bishops and Friers and Images stocks and stones cried out of the falling away of your Church if we may credit your owne Authors and yet by no meanes you will assent to a reformation of doctrine or manners At Luthers first rising which was almost 30. yeares before the Councell of Trent your Guicciardine tells us Guicciard Hist lib. 13. that there were that yeare many meetings at Rome to consult what was best to be done The more wise and moderate sort wished the Pope to reforme things apparently amisse and not to persecute Luther Hieronymus Savanarola told the French King Charles the 8. he should have great prosperitie in his voyage into Italie to the end hee should reforme the state of the Church which if he did not reforme he should returne with dishonour and so saith he it fell out I come to the Councell of Trent it selfe where you may reade many decrees for reformation and yet neither doctrine nor manners reformed But let us heare your owne confession It is true the Councell indeed complaineth with great reason of the avarice of such whom the Knight calleth the Popes Collectors though the Councell speaketh not of the Pope but false it is which he saith that the Councell complaineth of Indulgences an Article of faith as his words are The Councell likewise complaineth of many things crept into the celebration of the Masse and the words of the Councell are right cited by him in Latin in the Margent but in the English he foully corrupteth them For in stead of many things hee translated many errors which is a grosse errour and corruption in the Knight These be your grand exceptions to the grosse corruptions laid unto my charge but all this while you doe not discharge the accusations laid justly to your Church And in this I must needs say you play the Hypocrite who can discerne a mote in your Brothers eye and cannot see a beame in your owne First therfore cast the beame out of your own eye and then you shall easily disccrne without Spectacles that the Collectors of Indulgences are the Popes Collectors although the Pope is not mentioned in that place and Indulgences are an Article of Faith created by that Councell although the Councell proclaime it not an Article of Faith so that multa many things might well stand for many errors and corruptions since they were errors in practise Neither would I have set the Latin in the Margent if I had meant to corrupt them in English and withall if you had taken the last edition as you ought to have done you should have found them in another Character and then all your waste words of foule corruptions had beene needlesse But in this you resemble Palladius a lewd fellow who in like manner charged St. Hierome with falsifications and false translations He preacheth and publisheth abroad saith Hierome that I am a falsarie Hieron ad Pāmach de optimo genere interpret Tom. 2. that I have not precisely translated word for word that I in stead of the word Honourable have written these words Deerely beloved These things and such trifles saith he are laid unto my charge Now heare what Answer St. Hierome makes Whereas the Epistle it selfe declareth that there is no alteration made in the sense and that there is neither matter of substance added nor any doctrine devised by me verily by their great cunning they prove themselves fooles and seeking to reprove other mens unskilfulnesse they betray their owne Let us heare therefore the rest of your Things for so you will have me terme them which are crept into your Church and need a Reformation The Councell say you seemeth to acknowledge the avarice of Priests in saying Masse for mony was not farre from Symonie It speaketh of the use of Musicke wherewith some wantonnesse was mixed as also of certaine Masses or Candles used in certaine number proceeding rather from superstition than true
Religion This you confesse is true in your Councell but to these you answer nothing Concil Trid. Sess 22. Can. 9. You might have added to these abuses both Superstition and Idolatry in the Masse for your Councell confesseth them both and I thinke it toucheth your errors in Doctrine But have you reformed all or any of these things Is your superstitious number of Masses and lights in the Church abated Are your lascivious and wanton songs set to the Organs and mingled with other Church musicke redressed Is your covetousnesse in Priests with their Superstition and Idolatry in the Masse abolished Mirae mirae entis Res. Juvenal These corruptions are things and things as you call them and such as I wonder your Councell was not ashamed to confesse much more to tolerate or rather to practice in the daily sacrifice of your Masse I hasten to the Reformation in doctrine but you tell me it is a Lye the Councell never intended it I instance in private Masse Latin Service c. You answer it is most false for the doctrine is the same still and ever was I perceive your passion makes you much forget your selfe for your doctrine I confesse which is commonly received is the same now that was decreed in the Councell of Trent but that it was ever the same as now it is all the Colledge of Cardinals and Jesuits cannot prove Looke upon your owne confession in those two particular instances Your private Masse where the Priest communicates alone is not the same now as it was heretofore For say you it was the practise of the Primitive Church for the people to communicate every day with the Priest Spectacl pag. 191. Your Prayer in an unknowne tongue is not the same now as it was heretofore for say you Prayer and Service in the vulgar Tongue was used in the first and best Ages Pag. 271. and now the vulgar is become the Latin unknown tongue Take heed therefore of these confessions for by such palpable contradictions you may lose your Proselytes and bring the Lye upon your selfe Againe you confesse that the Councell wisheth that the standers by did communicate not onely spiritually Pag. 53. but also sacramentally and doth not your Church in this wish a reformation in doctrine Doth it not in this preferre the practice of the reformed Churches before their owne and in a manner confesse an error in the allowed practice of the Roman Church Your Councell commands Pastors that have care of soules to expound that to the people which is delivered in the Masse in an unknowne tongue and doe not those that require the Priests to expound it to the people shew likewise that without such exposition the people are little better for the Masse and that the Church intended the people should understand it What is this else but to joyne hands with the Protestants and to acknowledge a reformation needfull in your Church for requiring Service to bee celebrated in a knowne tongue that the people may understand it But that I may make good my assertion and that the Reader may know I have said nothing but the truth in affirming the Councell of Trent did make decrees for Reformation for doctrine as well as manners looke upon the second Session and tell me if they did not professe a reall intention in both Concil Trid. Sess 2. the words of the Session are these Whereas it is the speciall care and intention of the Councell that the darkenesle of Heresie being expelled which so many yeares hath covered the earth the light and parity of the Catholicke truth may shine through the helpe of Christ which is the true light and that those things which need reformation may be reformed the Synod exhorteth all Catholikes assembled or to be assembled and especially those who are skilful in the sacred Scriptures that with continuall meditation they may diligently consider with themselves how these things may bee effected that they may condemne those things which are to be condemned and approve those things which are to be approved that the whole world with one mouth and confession of one and the same faith may glorifie God the Faiher and our Lord Jesus Christ Take a review of the words of your Councell First Praecipua cura intentio ut propulsatis errorum tenebris quae per tot annos operiarunt terram the chiefe care to dispell the darkenesse of errour which covered the earth which words cannot be meant of the Protestant doctrine For our light is pretended by you to be lately come in and but in a part or corner of the world Secondly peritiam habeant sacrarum literarum ut sedulâ meditatione secum ipsi cogitent c. ut probare probanda damnare damnanda queant There needed not this diligence and skill in Scriptures for Luthers Religion for they were condemned before by the Pope Thirdly Nullus debeat c. obstinatis disceptationibus contendere which should not be about Lutheran points but about doctrines of their owne Fourthly in the third Section de extirpandis haeresibus c. which say they is adversus spirituales nequitias in caelestibus which heavenly places are meant by their owne Church not by Luthers as is most evident For they would never acknowledge our Churches heavenly places Now I pray what thinke you of your Councels Decrees Will not they extend to a Reformation in doctrine or will you say that Heresies in manners crept into the Church and the most learned in the Scriptures were chiefly to be imployed for reforming them that thereby there might be one Faith of Papists and Protestants through the Christian world De extirpandis haeresibus moribus reformandis quorum causa praecipue est congregata Sess 3. Looke upon the third Session and there likewise you shall finde a Decree for rooting out of Heresies in doctrine aswell as rectifying of manners and the discipline of the Church and for both those causes saith your Decree the Councell was principally called It is a most evident truth then howsoever you redouble the lie upon me that the Councell did intend a Reformation in doctrine for otherwise to what end should the Pope summon all Christian Bishops out of all Nations even at that time when the Protestants were in number infinite and had discovered and proclaimed the errors of the Roman Church Besides to what purpose were those disputes and oppositions in the Councell against particular points of Doctrine if they had not beene adjudged erroneous and needed a reformation But herein the Reader shall easily discerne the policie of your Church At the first calling of the Councell when these first Sessions were made the number of Bishops were but few about 40. but after the faction of the Popes creatures in multitude prevailed all hope of reformation was abandoned And thereupon the Bishops of Apulia publikely declared that the Trent Fathers were nothing else but the Popes creatures and his bondslaves See
a shrewd passe but that Pope Sixtus forbad this Theame to be any more disputed To proceed to the rest of your observations I produced for a witnesse Paulus Vergerius who renounced Poperie being a Romish Bishop by the testimonies of Sleidan and Osiander I cited the Councell of Basil for dispensing with the cup to the Lay people Aeneas Sylvius for Mariage of Priests Mr. Harding against your private Masse Mr. Casaubon for your translating of the Scriptures Lord Cooke for the Papists frequenting our Churches till the 11th of Qu. Elisabeth Now let the Reader judge of your moderate and learned confutation First Pag. 59. Sleidan and Osiander say you are notorious fellowes both for lying and heresie Paulus Vergerius when he dyed cast forth a horrible stench and roared most fearefully like an Oxe The Councell of Basile you know is of little or no authoritie with Catholikes as being reproved by the Sea Apostolicke Aeneas Sylvius what hee wrote in the time of that Councell is revoked by him in his Bull of Retractations Touching Casaubon you say there is shame enough in store for us both Touching the Lord Cooke he was soundly answered by a Catholicke Divine and so exposed to the scorne of the world for his notorious falshoods These be your severall answers and this is a confutation of their authorities but I say to you if these men have spoken untruth beare witnesse of their falshood if otherwise they delivered the truth why do you reproach them Either let their proofs bee plainly and moderately confuted or let the lying lips saith David be put to silence Psalm 31.20 which cruelly disdainfully and despightfully speake against the righteous Such as is your charitie such is your chastitie for when I cite your Jesuite Costerus for a witnesse Coster Enchir. cap. 17. propo 9. Pag. 64. that a Priest doth sinne more grievously in marrying a wife than keeping a concubine you scoffingly returne me this answere You seeme to take this for a great error but in Priests who cannot marrie it is a greater sinne to marrie for it is not marriage Thus you And is the marriage of Priests no marriage Was there no marriage in all the Tribe of Levi What will become of all the sonnes of Aaron were they all bastards Ignatius ad Philadelph I wish saith Ignatius that I may be found meet before God to follow their steps which raigne in his Kingdome as namely Abraham Isaac Jacob Joseph and Esay and other Prophets of Peter and Paul and other Apostles who lived in matrimonie and used conjugall rites And in conclusion hee answeres your assertion in these words If any man call lawfull copulation and procreation of children Idem ibid. corruption and uncleannesse that man hath a serpent the Devill that fell from God dwelling in him Grat. Par. 1. dist 56. fol. 67. Osius Palea Againe your owne Gratian tells us from Pope Damasus that many Bishops of Rome were Priests sonnes as namely Pope Hosius Bonifacius Agapetus Theodorus Silverius Deusdedit Faelix Gelasius all these were Popes and Priests sonnes and then he concludes a Cōplures etiam alii inveniantur qui de sacerdotibus nati Apostolicae sedi praesuerūt Ibid. There were many others also to be found who were begotten of Priests and governed in the Apostolike See Athanas ad Dracontium p. mihi 518. And Athanasius writing to Bishop Dracontius tells him that in his dayes many Monkes were Parents of children and Bishops likewise were Fathers of Sonnes and this was 340. yeares after Christ But I presume you will not say that the marriage of those Priests was no marriage and their brood was spurious and illegitimate Those who account it a Capitall offence for a Priest to marrie and a veniall sinne to keepe a concubine doe rightly resemble the old Heretike Aërius who used to say Epiph. haeres 76. To have the company of a woman out of marriage is no more sinne De bono Matrim dist 27. Quoniam than for a man to claw his eare St. Austin puts the question and resolves it in this manner Some say they be adulterous that marrie after they have made a vow but I tell you saith he they sin grievously that put such asunder And elsewhere more particularly hee concludes against your Tenet Augustinus de bono viduitatis cap. 10. They that say the marriage of such men or women as have vowed continencie is no marriage but rather adulterie seeme unto mee not to consider discreetly and advisedly what they say And in his Tract of holy virginitie he plainly shewes the Antiquitie of your error August de sancta Virgin c. 34. and refutes it where speaking of vowed persons he tells us that many of them are kept from marriage not for love of their godly purpose of Virginitie but for feare of open shame which shame proceedeth of Pride for that they are more afraid to displease men than God they will not marry because they cannot without rebuke yet better were it for them to marrie than to burne that is to say with the flame of their concupiscence to be wasted they are sorrie for their profession and yet it grieveth them to confesse it Chrys contra Judaios Gentil haeret serm de nuptiis Cana in Galil In like manner Chrysostome in the same age doth elegantly illustrate the honour of marriage in Spirituall persons Our Lord honoured Marriage with his presence and sayest thou that Marriage is a hindrance unto godlinesse I tell thee Marriage is no hinderance Had not Moses a wife and children Helias was not hee a virgin Moses brought downe Manna from Heaven so did Helias fire Moses caused Quailes to flie in the heaven and Helias shut it with a word What hurt did virginity to the one what impediment was wife and children to the other See Helias coached in the ayre and Moses travelling through the Sea Behold Peter a Pillar of the Church he had a wife therefore finde no fault with Marriage Looke into the Ages following your Angelicall Doctor Thomas Aquinas resolves the question flatly against you your fellow Jesuits The Acolothytes were those that lighted the Tapers at the reading of the Gospel in the Masse If an Acolothyte saith he doe confesse to a discreet Priest that by no meanes he can containe the Priest doth not much offend in giving him this counsell that he should marry privately and closely blinde the eyes of the Bishop And if afterwards he be willing to take Orders we hold it lesse sinne for him to use his wife than to commit fornication for it is a lesse offence to accompany with his wife than to commit fornication against the Divine Precept They who pretend chastitie and make a vow to keepe it when they enter into holy Orders doe breake it even in this when they allow a concubine Aeneas Sylvius was conscious to himselfe of the danger of that sinne and therefore he wished that
before he was yet borne dreamed that shee was delivered of a whelpe with a firebrand in his mouth with which he set the whole world on fire and your learned Doctors have interpreted this dreame that Dominick should be that dogge that should vomit out the fire which should consume the Haeretikes your infallible Pope likewise tells us that he saw in his sleepe the Church of St. John Lateran to totter and ready to fall Ibid. p. 562. and that St. Dominick supported it and held it up with his shoulders signifying thereby that he and those of his order should doe great good to the Catholike faith And howsoever these reports may passe for dreames yet this dog behaved himselfe so worthily in the persecution of those Christians that from that time forward the Monkes of his Order have bin alwayes imployed in the Inquisition Histor Wald. c. 2. But herein we may admire the great mercy and goodnesse of God unto this separate Church that notwithstanding this grievous persecution it was recorded by George Morell at that time a Pastor amongst the Waldenses that there were then remaining according to common report above eight hundred thousand persons that made profession of the same faith And thus breefely I have given you one company of men in former times distinct from yours If we looke beyond those times the Greeke Church was likewise separate from yours above eight hundred yeares agoe and differed in the points of Transubstantiation of Purgatory of private Masse of Prayer in an unknowne tongue of Marriage of Priests of the Communion in both kindes and the Popes Supremacy I say in all these they separated from your Church and this Church if you require Antiquity is before Rome in time if Vniversality she hath larger bounds and multitudes of people most of the Patriarchs seven universall Councels the Greeke tongue wherein the New Testament was written inso much as your Bishop of Bitonto was not ashamed publikely to professe It is our Mother Graecia Concil Trid. Episc Bitont unto whom the Latin Church is beholding for all that ever she hath And as touching the procession of the Holy Ghost which your men say they deny and therefore charge their Church with a knowne haeresie it may seeme rather that this is an aspersion laid upon them then any just exception Concil Florent Sess 35. For at the Councell of Florence about 200. yeares sithence your Pope Eugenius answered the Graeoians that he was well satisfied by them touching the procession of the Holy Ghost and that you may know they agreed with us in the principall points of our doctrine the Greeke Patriarch congratulates with the reformed Churches in this manner We give thanks to God the Author of all grace Patr. resp 2. in init resp 1. pag 148. and we rejoyce with many others but especially in this that in many things your doctrine is agreeable to our Church For a conclusion the Muscovites Armenians Aegyptians Aethiopians and divers other countries and Nations all members of the Greeke Church taught our doctrine from the Apostles time to ours This is so true an evidence in our behalfe that Bellarmine Bellarm. de ver Dei l. 2.6 ult in fine as it were in disdain of the Churches makes this answer We are no more moved with the examples of Muscovites Armenians Egyptians and Aethiopians then with the examples of Lutherans or Anabaptists and Calvinists for they are either Haeretikes or Schismatikes So that all Churches be they never so Catholike and Ancient if they subscribe not to the now Roman faith are either Schismaticall or Haereticall Thus I have briefely shewed you two sorts of Christians who were distinct from you and yet lived in the Communion of the Catholike Church I shewed you others also which lived and died in the bosome of the Roman Church but as farre different in opinion from your now professed Faith as those that went out from you The first sort separated themselves from your Church and Doctrine the latter continued in communion with you but separated themselves from the errors of prevayling faction in your Church the one sort you persecuted unto death for the other you cut out their tongues for speaking truth But you are not of it say you since the time you have begun to be against it And this you would inferre from Tertullian That us out of the mild fat and profitable Olive Tertull. de praescrip c. 36. the sower bastard Olive groweth so have errors fructified out of the true Church but became wild by untruth and lying degenerating from the graine of truth and so not yours and this doth fully answer the matter say you Surely if you compare the true and fruitfull Olive to your selves and us unto the bastard and wild Olive the matter as you say will be easily answered but this is to beg the point in question neither indeede can it be granted to you without a sinne against the Holy Ghost For the Spirit of God hath spoken it in particular to the Roman Church that Thou wert cut out of the Olive tree which is wild by nature Rom. 11.24 and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good Olive tree Now if the haeresies and errors which are compared to the wild Olive have sprung out of that good Olive tree into which you were first grafted or if the wild Olive is now returned to its owne nature I will say to you as sometimes Diogenes said to the Philosopher A me incipias erit verus sillogismus let the wild Olive be applied to your Church as it ought to be and the comparison will redound upon your selves and returne into your owne bosome From the Communion with your Church you question the Antiquity and Vniversality of those points wherein you differ from us and you would have me shew the deniall of them to have beene antiently and universally taught Pag. 121. Your demand to the first is unreasonable For it is sufficient for us that we professe that Faith which was once given to the Saints besides those new Articles which you thrust upon the Church are wholly yours and the proofe lies on your part to make good as being properly your owne on the other side to shew the deniall of them to have bin anciently taught is unsensible for the explicite deniall of them could not be taught till such Articles were offered and obtruded to us but the implicite deniall we prove by the positive doctrines of the Ancient Fathers which is incompatible with your new additions and corruptions From the Doctrine in generall you descend into the particulars and you say one of our Sacraments is an empty piece of Bread and a sup of wine Pag. 123. Hannibal of Carthage Cicero de Oratore lib. 2. when he heard Phormio the Orator talke pleasantly a long while together being afterwards demanded what he thought of his Eloquence made answer in this homely sort Multos se vidisse
agener all Councell may erre the Church may erne if the Church may erre the faith which that Church teacheth may faile and consequently there can bee no certaintie How easily are these leaves plucked away and torne in pieces 1. Though such a Councell as the Councell of Trent consisting of a few Bishops swaied by the Italian faction may erre it would not from thence follow that the whole representative Church might erre 2. Though the whole representative Church in a free and generall Councell lawfully called might erre yet many millions in the Catholique Church may hold the orthodox beliefe and consequently the faith of the Church not totally faile Yea but saith the Iesuit take away the infallibilitie of the Church there is no rule of faith This assertion of his is open blasphemie as if God would not bee true though all men were found liars though the Roman Church and Pope erre a thousand times yet the rule of faith remaineth unvariable in the holy Scriptures Yea but S. Gregorie equalizeth the foure first generall Councels to the Gospel and saith in effect that they could as little erre as the 4. Gospels and that upon the deniall of their authoritie the Christian faith might be shaken as well as by the deniall of the Gospels and the like authoritie giveth your Parliament unto them I answer S. Gregorie equalizeth the foure first generall Councels to the foure Gospels not in respect of authoritie but in respect of the veritie of the articles defined in them he saith not they could as little erre but they did as little erre in their decisions or to speake more properly that their doctrine was as true as Gospell because the determinations in those first generall Councels against Heretiques are evidently deduced out of holy Scriptures Our Parliament alluding to the words of S. Gregorie speaketh in the same sense as hee doth Yea but saith the Iesuit your Parliament lawes acknowledge that for heresie whatsoever is condemned for such in any of those Councels which is in other words to acknowledge them for a rule of faith and consequently to bee of infallible authoritie and to joyne them in the same ranke with the Canonicall Seriptures Idem jungat Vulpes by the like reason the Iesuit might say we joyne the booke of Articles of Religion and Homilies in the same ranke with the Canonicall Scriptures because we condemne for heretiques all that obstinatly maintaine any doctrine repugnant to them which wee doe not because we hold the Decrees of a provinciall Synod to bee of in fallible authoritie but because wee are able to prove all the Articles there established to be consonant to the holy Scriptures Yea but further saith the Iesuit in the same statute P. 203. you give power to the Court of Parliament with the assent of the Clergie in their Convocation to adjudge or determine a matter to be heresie which is the very same as to give it power to declare faith or to be the rule thereof I answer the statute giveth power to the Convocation to declare faith and determine heresie out of Gods word and by the sentence thereof and no otherwise In such sort to declare faith is not to be the rule of faith but to judge and measure things by the rule There is a maine difference betweene these two which yet the Iesuit here confoundeth as if they were coincident to declare faith and to bee the rule of faith every Iudge declareth the Law yet is he not the rule of the Law The Inquisitors in their jndices expurgatorij and the Sorbonists in their censures declare what is heresie yet the y are not Itrow the Rule of popish faith every meater in the market declareth that such or such is the measure of corne and graine yet is not every or any corne-meater the Winchester standerd It is one thing to be the rule and another to measure by the rule and declare what we have measured But to retort the Iesuits phrase upon himselfe hee is not capable it seemes of this discourse which yet every market-woman or boy is Well let the authoritie of generall Councels bee great in the Church and of the foure first Councels greatest of all quid hoc ad Rombum what maketh this for the infallibilitie of the Trent conventicle much saith the Iesuit every way for what saith hee can you say more against the present Church and present Councell of Trent then against the Church and Councels of those times What can we say nay what can we not say what have we not said or what could all the Papists in the world answer to what wee have already said After hee hath taken away the legall exceptions made against this conventicle by the Authour of the historie of the Councell of Trent and of the litterae missivae and Iewel his Treatise affixed to that Historie and Chemnisius his Examen and Doctor Bowles his latine Sermon preached to the Convocation and lately printed after hee hath proved which hee will never bee able that the Assemblie at Trent was a free and generall Councell and called by lawfull authoritie and all the proceedings in it according to ancient Canons yet it will still fall as short of the Councell of Nice in authoritie as in antiquitie that consisted of most eminent learned and holy Bishops and Confessors this for the most part of hungrie animals depending on the Popes trencher as Dudithius a Bishop present at that Councell declareth at large in his letter set before the Historie of the Councell of Trent to which I referre the reader To the second The testimonies alledged by the Knight for the sufficiencie of holy Scriptures are ponderous and weightie and the Iesuits exceptions to them are sleight vaine and frivolous To the testimonie out of the Acts I have kept backe nothing that was profitable unto you and I am pure from the bloud of all men Act. 20.20.27 for I have not shunned to declare unto you all the Councell of God hee saith that S. Paul speaketh of the doctrine by him preached not of the written word of God as in like manner our Saviour saith that what hee heard from his Father hee made knowne unto them Iohn 15.15 and yet delivered not one word in writing It is true S. Paul speaketh of the doctrine which he preached but it is as true that the doctrine which he preached hee confirmed unto them by testimonie of Scripture For S. Luke saith Acts 17.2 that S. Paul as his manner was reasoned with them out of the Scriptures opening and alledging that Iesus whom hee preached unto them was Christ and they that received the word with all readinesse of mind searched the Scriptures daily whether those things were so Act. 24.14 and again I confesse that after that way which they call heresie so worship I the God of my fathers beleeving all things which are written in the Law and the Prophets If the Iesuit had read the verse immediatly following testifying
dead by the hand of God In another place hee saith that the alteration was brought in by Pope Vitalian about the year 666. which cannot well agree with his former observation for Honorius the first was the sixt Pope before Vitalian by which computation the alteration must have beene fourescore or a hundred yeares before Vitalian The Hammer AMong the knowne errours of the Roman Church there is none more grosse or palpably absurd then this concerning Prayers in an unknowne tongue For as Velleius the Epicure in Tully goeth about to maintaine by reason that it had beene better a man had not beene indued with reason then with it so in this argument our Adversaries in good earnest strive cum ratione insanire to prove by reasons that it is best to exhibit to God an unreasonable service to speake understandingly for speech without understanding and that in the publike worship of God to perswade civill men that in their prayers the Priest ought to bee a Barbarian to the people and the people to the Priest In a word to enforce the people instead of offering the calves of their lippes to God to offer to him the lippes of calves bellowing without understanding The Knight therefore upon very just reason taketh the Church of Rome to taske for this unsufferable abuse and undeniable aberration from the Primitive and catholique Church Wherein he confoundeth all Papists not only with pregnant testimonies of Scripture and ancient Fathers but also with the confession of the learnedest of their side Yea but Flood the Iesuit maketh great brags that he will reckon with him for it and reckon he doth according to his best skill in Arithmeticke but to halves for the Knight presseth the Romanists with the historie of the Councell of Trent and the contradictions of their Bishops there and other passages of moment which the Iesuit lisently passeth by being willing to charge himselfe with no more then he thought he was fairely able to put off What he saith either by way of objection against the practise of the reformed Churches or in answer to our arguments shall be particularly discussed in my replie to his particular heads To the first The Knight saith not that the Councell of Trent approveth in expresse and direct words the practise of our Church Concil Trent Sess 22. c. 8. but that by consequence it doth so in saying the Masse containeth great instruction for the common people and commanding that the Masse Priest or some other should frequently expound or declare unto them the mysteries of the Masse for if the Masse containe as the Councell saith great instruction for the people and for that end ought to bee expounded unto them by the same reason it ought to be translated into the mother-tongue and so read unto them Unlesse they will say that the people receive as much instruction form that they understand not as from that they understand Which none will say but he that were a degree below S. Pauls idiot In 1. ad Cor. c. 14. melius ad edificationem ecclesiae est orationes publicas quae audiente populo dicuntur dici lingua communi clericis populo quam dicilatinâ .. Contar. in catec interrogat ult populus linguâ non intellect â orans caret eo fructu quem perciperet siorationes eas quas ore proferunt etiam intelligerent nam speciatim intenderent animum mentem in deum ut ab eo impetrarent etiam speciatim ea quae ore petunt magis aedificarentur ex sensu pio earum oraftonum quas ore proferunt Doubtless that which was written and appointed to bee read before the people for their instruction and edification ought to be delivered unto them in a language which they understand but the Masse was written and appointed to beeread before the people for their edification and instruction as the Councell agnizeth therefore it ought to be celebrated in a knowne tongue This reason alone prevailed so far with two Roman Cardinals Cajetan and Contarenus that they subscribed to the doctrine of the reformed Church in this point The former his subscription is in these words It were better for the edification of the Church that the publique prayers which are made in the audience of the people should bee said in a tongue common to the Priest and people then that they should bee said in Latine The other in these words The people that prayeth in an unknowne tongue wanteth that fruit which they might reape if they understood those things which they pronounce with their lips for they would in a speciall manner apply their mind to God that they might obtaine of him those things which they pray for especially and they would bee more edified by a godly feeling of those prayers which they utter with their mouth To the second The generall practise and custome of the Westerne Church having their publike service in Latine and of the Easterne Churches having their service in Greeke maketh for us not against us For the Latine service was generally understood in the Westerne Church and the Greeke in the Easterne when and where it was not so generally understood they had their service in their Mother-tongue as namely among the Syrians Armenians Russians Egyptians Aethiopians While the Roman Empire flourished and the Imperiall lawes bare the sway as namely in It alie Spaine France Germanie England Africa and wheresoever the divine service was celebrated in the Latine tongue the people generally understood the Latine If the Iesuit speake of later times after the inundation of Gothes and Vandals when the Latine tongue was corrupted and degenerated into severall languages as Italian Spanish and French in such sort that the people in those parts underdood not the Latine God stirred up in these Westerne parts many religious and learned men who turned the Bible and the common prayers into the vulgar tongue and the Bishops of Rome were very much to blame who commanded not the like to be done throughout all their jurisdiction and it is worth the observation that Irenaeus teacheth L. 5. c. 30. that the number 666. containeth the name latinus and that in that very yeare of our Lord Pope Vitalian commanded the Latine service generally to be received in the Westerne Church though at that time in most parts few of the people understood it To the third We are not so much to regard uniformitie in the Church service as conformitie to the will and word of God which requireth that all things in the Church bee done to edification 1 Cor. 14.15 16.26 that we pray with the spirit and with understanding also that the people joyne with the Priest in all parts as well prayers as giving of thankes and testfie it by saying Amen Which cannot be done if prayers be said in a tongue which people understand not Moreover as diversitie of instrumentstuned together marreth not the musicke but maketh it sweeter so diversitie of languages in which the
atque depictum habens imaginem quasi Christi vel sancti alicujus non enim satis memini cujus imago fuerit cum ergo hoc vidissem in ecclesiâ Christi contra authoritatem scripturaruÌ„ hominis pendere imaginem scidi illud magis dedi consilium custodibus ejusdem loci ut pauperem mortunm eo obvolverent atque efferrent Ierome in Ezek l. 4. c. 16. nos unam habemus vivam unam veneramur imaginem quae est imago invisibilis omnipotentis Dei. Amphiloc citat à pat concil Constantinop An. 754 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aug. de mor. Eccl. c. 34 novi multos esse sepulchroruÌ„ picturarum adoratores c. Ep. 109. ad Ian. in primo praecepto prohibetur coli aliqua in figmentis hominum Deisimilitudo non quia non habet imaginem Deus sed quia nulla imago ejus coli debet nisi illa quae hoc est quod ipse L. de fid symb tale simulacrum Deo nefas est Christiano in templo collocare but you must understand that that was joyned to the glory of his God-head in so much that his Apostles could not behold the glory of his flesh in the mount much more glorious is it now having put off mortalitie who is therefore able with dead and livelesse colours and a shadowed picture to expresse those bright and shining beames of so great glorie Epiphanius as zealous as either for entring into a Church at Anablathra and finding there a vaile hanging at the doore died and painted and having the image as it were of Christ or some Saint seeing this that contrary to the authoritie of Scriptures the image of a man was hung upin the Church of Christ he cut it and the vaile and gave counsell to the Keepers of the place to wrap and burie some poore dead man in it and he intreated the Bishop of Ierusalem to give charge hereafter that such vailes as that was being repugnant to Christian religion should not bee hanged up in the Church of Christ S. Ierome in his Comment upon the sixteenth of Ezekiel teacheth that Christians never acknowledge nor worship any image of the invisible and omnipotent God save one to wit his Sonne In the fift age Amphilochius Bishop of Iconium instructeth us what account the Church made of images in these words Wee have no care to figure by colours the bodily visages of Saints in tables because wee have no need of suchthings But by vertue to imitate their conversation and S. Austine treating of the catholique Church professeth that hee knew many worshippers of graves and pictures and withall addeth the Church censure of them but the Church saith hee condemneth them and seeketh every way to correct them as ungracious children and in his 109. Epistle to Ianuarius C. 11. hee writeth that in the first Commandement any similitude of God devised by man is forbidden to bee worshipped not because God hath not an image but because no image of him ought to bee worshipped but that which is the same thing that hee is as for drawing him after the similitude of a man hee utterly disliketh it saying it is unlawfull for a Christian to erect any such image and place it in the Church for as else-where hee argueth images prevaile more to bow downe the unhappy soule in that they have a mouth eyes eares Psal 113. Conc. 2. plus enim valent simulacra ad curvandam infaelicem animam quòd os babent oculos habent aures habent nares habent manus habent pedes habent quam ad corrigenâ—am quòd non loquantur non videant c. God li. 8. tit 12. prohibemus basilicam alicujus imagine obscurari Greg. Regis l. 7 ep 109. ad Seren praetereà judico dudum ad nos pervenisse quòd fraternit as vestra quosdam imaginum adoratores aspiciens easdem ecclefiae imagines confregit atque projecit quidem zelum vos ne quid manufactum adorari possit habuisse laudavimus sed frangere easdem imagines non debuisse judicamus idcirco enim pictura in ecclesia adhibetur ut ' hi qui liter as nesâ—iunt saltem in parietibus videndo legant quae legere in codicibus non valent Vid. Concil Nic. 2. Act. 6. Zonoras hist Tom. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nostrills hands and feet then to correct it in that they neither heare nor see nor smell nor handle nor walke In the sixt age The Emperour Iustinian setteth downe a law made by Theodosius and Valentinian which forbiddeth Churches to bee obscured with any images or painted tables In the seventh age When Images began to be set up in the Churches Serenus Bishop of Marsilis brake them downe which fact of his though Gregorie disliked because he thought that images might profitably be retained as lay-mens books yet in this hee commended his zeale that hee would by no meanes suffer them to bee worshipped In the seventh age There was a Councell held at Constantinople Anno 754. whereinlt was decreed by 338. Bishops in this manner Wee doe declare that all images of what nature soever made by the wicked art of the Painter be cast out of Christian Churches whosoever from this day forward shall dare to set up any images of God either in the Church or in a private house if hee be a Bishop let him bee deposed if he be a lay-man let him bee accursed Zonoras saith that in the hearing of all the people they openly forbad the worshipping of Images H. de orthodox fid l. 4. c. 17. orat de imag calling such as adored them idolater And in the yeare 794. Charles the great called a Councell of 300. Bishops of France Italie and Germany in which the second Synod of Nice which decreed the erecting and worshipping of images is refuted and condemned yea and some of the patrones of images as namely Durand and Gregorie the second professedly inveigh against all Images and Pictures made to represent the Deity or Trinitie it is unpossible saith Damascene that God who can neither bee seene by man nor circumscribed should be expressed in any shape or figure nay saith hee it is extreame madnesse and impietie to make a representation of the Godhead Ep. Greg. ad Leo. Imper. de imag in and Gregorie the second giveth this reason to Leo the Emperour why they painted not God the Father Quoniam quis sit non novimus because wee know not who hee is and the nature of God cannot be painted and set forth to mans sight In the eighth age Rhem. cont Hinc Laud. c. 20. Hincmarus Archbishop of Rhemes tells us that not long before his time a generall Synod was called in Germanie by Charles the great and therein by the rule of Scriptures and Fathers the Councell of Nice indeed saith he a wicked Councell touching images which some would have to bee broken in pieces and some to bee worshipped was utterly rejected In this age in the yeare
our Saviour and much tending both to the confirmation of the Gospell in generall and that particular miracle of Christ for who would not beleeve that the woman was cured of her bloudy issue by touching the hemme of Christs garment when hee saw an unusuall kind of herbe growing at the foot of that Statua which as soone as it grew up so high as to touch the hemme of the brazen garment received a miraculous vertue from it to cure diseases of every kind notwithstanding all this faire weather Eusebius falleth fowle upon the Originall of this erecting statuaes to the memorie of the dead attributing it to a heathenish rite or custome Neither doth the Knight any way wrong Eusebius in the relation or translation of this passage For certaine it is that the people of God began not first to set up images or erect statuaes The first which wee ever read of was consecrated to Belus the successour of Ninus by the Assyrians who were Paynims and the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ethnicus or gentilis signifieth Gentile or Heathen whatsoevr the Iesuit alledgeth out of Thomasius Dictionarie to the contrarie saying Looke in your Dictionarie of Thomas Thomasius whether amongst all the Englishes of Gentilis which are there set downe P. 300. you can find heathenish which I dare say you cannot The Greeke word in Eusebius text is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the Latine gentilis signifieth the same thing to wit belonging to a countrey people stocke or family had the Iesuits and Seminarie Priests at Doway and Rhemes better studied Thomas Thomasius Dictionarie they would not have fraught their English translation of the Bible with so many affected harsh-sounding and uncoth words to English eares as announce archisynagogue azymes commessations depositum didrachme euroclydon exinanited holocaust hosts victimes paraclete pasche resuscitate neophyte superedified and the like Againe though Thomasius render not the word Heathenish yet he rendereth it gentile which is all one and let the Iesuit turne over all his Thomasius and Eliots and Riders and Coopers and Calepines and see whether hee can find any other proper Latine word answering to the English Heathen or heathenish then gentilis or ethnicus a word derived of the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the very word used by Eusebius in this place When so often in the holy Scriptures of the old Testament the word gentes occurreth as in the 2 Psal v. 1. the 9. v. 5. and the 10. v. 16. and the 44. v. 2. and the 98. v. 1. and the 135. v. 15. and else-where what can the Iesuit meane by it but Gentile Orat. de obit Theodos regem adoravit non lignum utique quia bic gentilis error est vanit as impiorum or how can he translate it in pure and proper English but heathen or heathenish nations according to the meaning of the holy Ghost in those texts What will hee say to the words of S. Ambrose When Helena read the title upon the Crosse then newly found shee fell downe and worshipped what or whom The King saith that Father to wit Christ there entitled the King of the Iewes not verily the wood for that is a heathenish errour and a vanity of ungodly men Doth not gentilis here signifie prophane Pagan and heathenish therefore the Knights credit is salved in that his translation of Eusebius and the Iesuits credit and cause also lyeth a bleeding For though the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke and gentilis in Latine sometimes in good authours signifieth no more then belonging to a countrie or nation Verisimile est quod majores nostri ad gentilis consuetudins similitudinem quà mprimùm accedentes eos qui tanquam servatores illis fuissent apud se honore ad hunc modum afficere consueverunt be it Christian or heathenish yet in this place of Eusebius it cannot be other wayes taken then for heathen for Eusebius a little before saith it is not to be wondered that those who are sprung of the Gentiles or came of heathenish parents and received benefits of our Saviour where he lived did thus unto him adding it is very likely that our ancestours herein followed the custome of the heathen who honoured all such with Statuaes who had been as saviours unto them preserving their lives To the twelfth The Councell of Eliberis is as a thorne in the Iesuits eyes and therefore he hath many plucks at it yet he plucks it not out but pricketh his owne fingerse First he saith it was an obscure Councell Vid suprà verba Agobardi without any certainty of the time when it was held As obscure as he maketh it it is a Councell of reverend antiquity cited by S. Agobardus and approved by him and honourably mentioned by all Writers who impugne idolatrous innovations corruptions in the Church As for the time Baronius and the best Chronologers affirme that it was held in the yeare of our Lord 305. in the time of Marcellus the first and was consequently more ancient then the first most famous Councell at Nice if to this Councell the Iesuit oppose one of Constantinople the other at Rome under Gregory the third and the third at Nice in favour of images we in like manner oppose to those idolatrous and hereticall many Councels of better note condemning image-worship as namely the Councell of Constantinople held in the yeare 754. and another celebrated there in the yeare 814. and a third at Frankford in the yeare 794. and a fourth at Paris under Ludovicus in the yeare 824. together with the book of Charles the great and the Epistle of the English Bishops penned by Alcuinus and mentioned by Houeden in his storie of England and many other tractates of famous writers of England France who professedly impugned and refuted the Decrees of the second Councel at Nice establishing image-worship Yea but saith the Iesuit the Canon of Eliberis shooteth not home to the point in question for it forbiddeth not pictures absolutely in Churches but only painting them on the walls I reply first that the Councell forbiddeth pictures in Churches absolutely the expresse words of the Canon are placuit in ecclesiâ pictur as esse non debere it seemed good to the Councell that pictures should not be in Churches Whereof the 19. Fathers present at that Synod render this reason ne quod collitur in parietibus depingatur lest that which is worshipped should be painted on the walls Secondly I reply if the Councell of Elliberis as the Iesuit granteth forbiddeth any image to be painted on the Church-walls why doe Papists every where in their Churches at this day paint images on the walls Yea but the Iesuit addeth who is best at a dead lift that we are besides the matter in producing the Canon of this Councell against images which was made in honour of them si crederefas est For the Councell saith the Iesuit forbad painting images on
to shew the visibilitie of the Church by persons in all ages Then you demand of me where the Church was which S. Paul called the house of God and pillar of truth and thus you prescribe mee my weapons and teach mee how to fight Touching the visibilitie of the Church it is not to be confined within the narrow compasse of an Epistle and therefore I will answer you and your Jesuites challenge at large in place convenient and as touching your demand where the Church was which is called the pillar of truth I answer in briefe not in Rome but in Ephesus for otherwise it might seeme incongruous that the Apostle should exhort Timothy to walke circumspectly in the Church of God because the Church of Rome was the pillar and firmament of truth And therefore the Turke may better alledge this place to prove Mah mets religion being now subject to his power than you to justifie the Romish religion because Ephesus was the pillar of truth You proceed and by way of prevention you tell me the controversie is not so much of the doctrine as of the persons and then you conclude simply in the very same page The question is not of the doctrine but of the persons Oportet esse memorem I will but let you see your contradiction I quarrell it not onely I pray you tell mee in the words of sobernesse and truth did ever any wise man except your selfe undertake to prove the true Church by the visibilitie of the persons May not Jewes and Heretiques by the same reason claime a true Church because they had visible persons in all ages But say you this hath beene the way which the holy Fathers have taken either in proving the Catholique faith or disproving of heresies and for your Assertion you cite Tertullian Irenaeus Cyprian Optatus and Augustine give me leave to examine your Authors for as yet you have produced but one ancient Father and him you have falsified in the Frontispice of your booke Touching your first Author Tertull. prescript c. 32. lib. 3. Car. advers Marcion Tertullian in the first place cited by you hee demonstrates two wayes how to discerne the Church first by shewing some Apostle or Apostolicall person to have founded it next by the conformity of the doctrine to the Apostles and in his third book against Marcion which is your second citation hee hath nothing at all for your purpose Touching your second Author Iren. l. 3. c. 1 2 3. l. 4. c. 43 45 46. Irenaeus hee is expressely against you for in the first chapter and third booke cited by you he saith By the will of God they have delivered the Gospel to bee the pillar and foundation of truth In the second hee saith that when Heretiques are convinced by the Scriptures they fall to accuse them as if they were not right or of authoritie and that they are ambiguous and doubtfull In the third hee proveth the truth of the Church by the conformitie of doctrine to the Apostles not by the visibilitie as you pretend In his fourth booke cited by you he shewes that bare succession is no note of the Church and in his 45. chapter which you quote there is nothing that maketh for your question And lastly in the 46. chapter he proveth that the New Testament is as severe against fornication as the Old or rather more and this may touch the free-hold of that Church which dispenseth with Stewes but of the point in question he speakes nothing at all Touching your third Author S. Cyprian Cypr. Ep. 52. 76. in the 52. Epistle cited by you he perswades Antonianus rather to adhere to Cornelius than Novatianus and in his 76. Epistle alledged by you hee shewes that Novatianus succeeding none in that See was ordained by himselfe and therefore could bee no true Bishop but as touching the controversie in question Ne gry quidem Touching your fourth Author Optatus Optat. advers Parmen lib. 2. he handleth not the question neither maketh any thing at all for you Lastly August Psal 2. part Don. Ep. 165. de Utilit credendi c. 7. touching S. Austin you cite the second Psalme and there is nothing handled of the question you cite likewise his 165. Epistle wherein hee declares a succession of Bishops from the Apostles time to Anastasius Si ordo Episcoporum succedentium considerandus est Ep. 165. p. 751. Preculdubio ab Ecclesiâ Catholicâ sumendum exordium De Utilit credendi c. 7. Idem contr Cresc l. 1. c. 33. If saith he an orderly succession of Bishops is to be considered Yea but S. Austin say you particularly proves the question where he tels his friend Honoratus he must begin his enquirie from the Catholique Church Hee that told the Manichees wee must take our Exordium from the Church told the Donatists likewise wee must resort to that Church for the resolution of our faith which the sacred Scriptures undoubtedly demonstrate to be the true Church for in them saith he we have knowne Christ Idem Ep. 166. in them wee have knowne the Church If you can derive your succession in person and doctrine from Christ and his Apostles we will answer you as sometimes S. Austin answered Petilian the Donatist Idem contr l. Petil. l. 2. c. 85. Whether of us be Schismatiques we or you aske you not mee I will not aske you let Christ bee asked that hee may shew us his owne Church After these severall passages you returne againe to your first Author Tertullian Tertull. prescript c. 19. and with him you conclude where it shall appeare that there is the truth of Christian discipline and faith there shall bee the truth of Scriptures and Expositions And from hence you inferre that we are first to seeke the persons that professe the faith that is the Church Whereas in truth his testimony doth rather prove the persons by the doctrine than the doctrine by the persons and this is most agreeable to his owne Assertion in the third chapter Idem c. 3. Ex personis probamus fidem an ex fide personas As if hee should say wee plainly prove the persons by the doctrine not the doctrine by the persons Now put on your Spectacles and take a review of your Authors The first maketh nothing for you the second is expressely against you the third speakes not to the point in question the fourth and fifth handle the question but not at all to your advantage or our prejudice and thus you have produced foureteene severall places out of the ancient Fathers in one page and all either impertinently or falsly or directly against your selfe by which the Reader may conjecture what is like to bee the issue of your whole worke who have so grossely falsified so many authorities in your Epistle and before the entrance into the body of your booke From your lame proofes of the Churches authoritie you proceed to the justification of your maimed commandements
ad Philadelph In your Edition printed at Colein you have quite altered the sense by a corrupt Translation saying One Cup is distributed for all and in the Margent Unus Calix qui pro omninibus nobis distributus est Bibl. Pp. Tom. 1. Colon Agripp An. 1618. p. 85. Bell. de Euch. l. 4. c. 26. Una Eucharistia utendum And that your corruption may not want an Advocate your Cardinall Bellarmine tells us There is not much credit to be given to the Greek Copies for the Latine reades it otherwise by which reason a man may appeale from the Originall to a Translation which is a thing unheard of Again whereas he saith in the same Epistle Ignat. ibid. ut suprà Oh yee Virgins in your prayers set Christ onely before your eyes and his Father being enlightened by his spirit hereby teaching that we ought to directour prayers to the Trinity only and not to Saints Angels your men in their late Edition printed at Lyons by their corrupt translation have left out the word Precibus Ignat. Lugdun impres An. 1572. and thrustin Animabus soules for prayers by which change of words the sense meaning of the Father is cleane perverted It followeth further in the same Page in speaking of Peter and Paul and other Apostles who betooke themselves to a married life Severinus Binius in his Annotations upon this place tells us that those words viz. Peter and Paul and other Apostles betook themselves to a married life ought to be razed out The third age An. 200. to 300. because saith he it is probable the Grecians in honour of Marriage corrupted the Text A faire warning for us to take notice that in after Editions that passage may also be cleane left out In the third Age Tertullian paraphrasing upon the words of Christ a Caro nihil prodest ad vivificandum scilicet Tert. de Resurrect carnis c. 37. Caro nihil prodest sed ad vivificandum Tertul. Parisiis apud Michaelem Julianum An. 1580. p. Mihi 47. The flesh profiteth nothing saith It is the Spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing namely to quicken your Tertullian printed at Paris hath quite perverted the meaning of the Father and causeth him to speake flat contrary both to himselfe and to the sense of Christ in these words The flesh profueth nothing but to quicken St. Cyprian Bishop of Carthage is falsified and corrupted for the circumgestation of your Sacrament and the Popes Supremacie In his Tract of patience he tells us b Nec post gustatam Eucharistiam manus gladio cruore maculentur Sic Cypr. Parisiis apud PetruÌ„ Drovart in vico Jacobaeo An. 1541. fol. 89. Nec post gestatam Eucharistiam c. Cypr. de bono Patientiae Impress Partsiis apud Claudium Chapelet Via Jacobaet An. 1616. p. Mihi 316 Post gustatam Eucharistiam c. After the eating of the Eucharist the hands are not or ought not to be defiled with bloud In your Cyprian printed at Paris and Colein your men have wittingly altered the words saying Post gestatam Eucha ristiam and so by transmutation of one letter doe cite this place for the circumgestation of the Sacrament whereas the Ceremonie of carrying about the Eucharist was not knowne in many hundred yeares after Cyprians time But Pamelius a Canon of the Church of Bruges and Licentiate in Divinity returnes this answer in defence of it Cum manu non gustetur Eucharistia sed olim gestari consueta sit prorsus illud ex Cambrensi Codice substituendum duxi pro eo quod erat gustatam Annot. in lib. de bono Patient pag. Mihi 321 Forasmuch as the Eucharist cannot be tasted with the hand but was wont anciently to be carried with the hand I thought it best to change the word Tasting into Carrying which I borrowed from an ancient Copie in Cambron Abbey The word then we see was changed by his owne Confession and the Cambron Copie is brought for the defence of this forgerie which differing from all other Copies may be justly suspected For his reason that we taste not with our hand it is frivolous For St. Cyprian saith not gustatam manu but simply gustatam which taste yet was not without taking the Sacrament into the hand You have heard Pamelius confession Now let us heare what Manutius hath done in publishing of St. Cyprian for Pamelius tells us that St. Cyprian printed at Rome by Paulus Manutius Indiculus Codicum in Cypriano in the yeare 1563. is a much more bettered and corrected Edition than any other and accordingly your learned Priest Mr. Hart assures us that Pope Pius the 4th Hart Raynolds c. 5. Divis 2. p. 167. being desirous that the Fathers should be set forth and corrected perfectly sent to Venice for Manutius a famous Printer that he should come to Rome to doe it and to furnish them the better with all things necessary he put foure Cardinals wise and vertuous in trust with the worke and for the correcting of Cyprian especially above the rest singular care was taken by Cardinal Baromaeus a Copie was gotten of great antiquity from Verona and the exquisite diligence of learned men was used in it These Testimonies make a faire shew of sincere and plaine dealing and no doubt if there were not double diligence used by them the Roman Cyprian doth exceed all the rest and is freest from corruption That the truth thereof may appeare let us looke into St. Cyprian in his booke touching the Unity of the Church De Veritate Ecclesiae Whereas the ancient and true Cyprian sayth The rest of the Apostles were equall unto Peter both in honour and power the Roman Cyprian printed by Manutius and your late Paris Cyprian Cypr. Parisiis apud Claudium Chapelet An. 1616. hath added these words The Primacie is given to Peter And whereas the ancient Cyprian saith Christ did dispose the Originall of unitie beginning from one the Roman and Paris have added Unam CathedraÌ„ constituit p. 254 He appointed one Chayre And whereas the ancient Cyprian sayth The Church of Christ may be shewed to be one the Roman and Paris have added Cathedra una constituitur ib. and the Chayre to bee one And because the Chayre may bee as well applyed to the Bishop of Carthage Cathedram Petri Ibid. as to the Bishop of Rome the Paris Cyprian hath added Peters chayre And whereas it was in Cyprian even in the Roman print too Hee who withstandeth and resisteth the Church doth he trust himselfe to be in the Church the Paris Cyprian addeth Qui Câ—thedram Petri supra quam fundata est Ecclesia deserit in Ecclesia se esse confidit ibid. He who forsaketh Peters chayre in which the Church was founded doth he trust himselfe to bee in the Church Now as you have heard that Manutius hath added and forged much in his Roman Edition for the Popes Supremacie so
1100 de Gratiano Aiph advers haereses l. 1. c. 2. in fine Ad transmarina qui putaverint appellandum a nullo infra Africam in Communione suscipiatur Bin. in Concil Milevit Cā 22 Codex Can. Eccl. Afric Can. 28. v. Nisi forte ad Apostolican sedem appellaverint Grat. causa 2. quest 6. Placuit fol. Mibi 153. Haec exceptio non videtur quadrare Bell. de Pont. l. 2. c. 24. notwithstanding hee professeth the worke was purged and restored to his integrity by most learned men by the command of Gregory the 13. in the yeare 1580. Your Alphonsus à Castro tells us that this shamefull errour ought to be made knowne to all men lest others by this abuse take occasion to erre in like manner as namely Johannes de Turrecremata and Cardinall Cajetan who both cited this place out of Gratian for the Romish faith and the Popes Supremacie and yet no such thing is to be found in St. Austin The Councel of Milevis alias the African Councell is falsified by Gratian for the Popes Supremacie The words of the Councell are these Those that offer to appeale beyond the Seas let none within Africa receive them to Communion Gratian observing that this was a strong evidence and barre to the Popes Supremacie according to his custome hath thrust in these words into the Canon Except it bee to the Apostolike See of Rome Now what saith Bellarmine to this falsification He confesseth that some say This exception doth not seem to square with the Councell I know not how the squares goe with your men at Rome but I finde that amongst your partie there is no rule without an exception especially if it make against your doctrine St. Cyrill Bishop of Alexandria is purged in the Text it selfe and is forged by Aquinas for two principal points of faith viz. Transubstantiation and the Popes Supremacie Touching the first he saith That we might not feele horrour Aquin. in Catena in illud Luc. 22 Accepto pane c. seeing flesh and bloud on the sacred Altar the Sonne of God condescending to our infirmities doth penetrate with the power of life into the things offered to wit Bread and Wine converting them into the verity of his owneflesh that the body of life as it were a quickening seed might be found in us Here is a faire Evidence or rather a foule falsification for your carnall presence But what saith your owne Vasques the Jesuit Citatur Cyrillus Alex. in Epistola ad Casyrium quae inter ejus opera non habetur illius tamen testimonium citat S. Thomas in Catena Cyrils testimony is eyted by Thomas but there is no such Tract to be found in all his workes Againe touching the Popes Supremacie hee brings in St. Cyrill saying As Christ received power of his Father over every power a power most full and ample that all things should bowe to him so hee did commit it most fully and amply Aquinas in opusculo contra errores Graecorum ad Urbanum quartum Pontificem maximum both to Peter and his Successors and Christ gave his owne to none else save to Peter fully but to him be gave it And the Apostles in the Gospels and Epistles have affirmed in every doctrine Peter and his Church to bee instead of God And to him even to Peter all doe bowe their head by the law of God and the Princes of the world are obedient to him even as to the Lord Jesus And we as being members must cleave unto our head the Pope and the Apostolike See That it is our duty to seeke and enquire what is to be beleeved what to bee thought what to be held because it is the right of the Pope alone to reprove to correct to rebuke to confirme to dispose to loose and binde Here is a large and ample testimony cited in the name of an ancient Father for the honour and power of the universall Bishop This passage is alledged out of Cyrils worke intituled The Treasurie against Heretiques Thesaurus adversus haeticos Tom. 2. p. 1. but whereas there are 14. Bookes written by him of that Title there are no such words to be found in the whole Tract But observe the proceedings of your good Saint hee conceived the authoritie of one Father though rightly cited was not a sufficient proofe for an Article of faith and thereupon to make good his former Assertion hee summons 630. Bishops who saith hee with one voice and consent made this generall acclamation in the Councell of Chalcedon Aquinas in opusculo ut supra God grant long life to Leo the most holy Apostolike and universall Patriarch of the whole World He tels us further it was decreed by the same Councell If any Bishop be accused let him appeale to the Pope of Rome because we have Peter for a rocke of refuge and he alone hath right with freedome of power in stead of God to judge and try the cause of a Bishop accused according to the keyes which the Lord did give him Without doubt this decree was a good inducement for the Church of England to subscribe to the Popes Supremacie if you could make good this proofe out of the Councell of Chalcedon for it is one of the first foure generall Councels which we subscribe unto by our Acts of Parliament An. 1. Elizab. But where are those words to bee found in that Councell Your Pope Zozimus falsified a Canon in the first Councell of Nice as I have shewed and your Popes Champion St. Thomas hath falsified another and both for the universality of the Pope by which you may easily discerne that you wanted antiquity to prove your faith when your men are driven to forge and faine a consent of many hundred Bishops in an ancient and generall Councell See Concil Chalced. Can. 28. Act. 15. for the supporting of your Lord Paramount when as in truth it decreed the flat contrary doctrine Gelasius Bishop of Rome is corrupted Grat. de Consecr dist 2. c. Comperimus Gelasius Pap◠Majorico Johanni Episcopis Ibid. where hee condemneth halfe Communion as sacrilegious his words are these We finde that some receiving a portion of Christs holy Body abstaine from the Cup of his sacred Bloud which because they doe out of I know not what superstition we command therefore that either they receive the entire Sacraments or that they be entirely with-held from them because the division of one and the selfe-same Mystery cannot be without grand Sacriledge Gratian the compiler of the Popes Decrees borrowed his chapter out of that Epistle of Gelasius saith Bellarmine withall prefixed this Title before it Bell. de sacr Euch. l. 4. c. 26. The Priest ought not to receive the Body of Christ without the Bloud Ea Epistola Gelasii quae modò fortasse non extat Ibid. that is to say without the consecrated Cup and yet by Bellarmines confession That Epistle peradventure is not now extant and
gloriam pervenire c. Ind. lib. prohib p. 696. Dost thou beleeve to come to glory not by thine owne merits but by the vertue and merit of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ Dost thou beleeve that our Lord Jesus Christ did dye for our salvation and that none can be saved by his owne merits or by any other meanes but by the merits of his Passion then for a conclusion it followes fol. 35. b NoÌ„ erit desperandum vel dubitandum de salute illius c. Ordo baptizandicuÌ„ modo visitandi Imp. Venet. Ind. Belg. p. 419. 1575. Ind. Madrid p. 149. Ind. lib prohib p. ut supra We ought not to doubt or despaire of the salvation of that man who beleeveth with his heart and confesseth with his mouth the forenamed propositions These severall passages are commanded by three severall Indices to be blotted out Nay more the Booke which containes this Doctrine you thrust it into the third Classis amongst those namelesse Authors which deliver Doctrine say you in some sort pernitious to the Catholike faith as if the foundation of all comfort in Christ were pernitious to the Christian faith But let me tell you your Inquisitors have much forgot themselves for they forbid that Booke which say they was printed at Venice 1575. when as by their owne rules they professe openly that they never meant to condemne any namelesse Authors but such onely as have beene published since the yeere 1584. nor any Author whatsoever by their Trent Decree but from the yeere 1515. Howsoever this namelesse Author was both printed at a See Bishop Ushers answer to the Jesuites Challenge cap. Of Merits p. 513. Venice at Antwerp at Coleine at Paris juxta ritum S. Romanae Ecclesiae for so be the words according to the rites of the Romane Church b Cassan in Append ad opusc Jo. Roff. de fiducia misericordia Dâ—i Cassander tells us the Book was to be had in all Libraries and particularly was found inserted among the Epistles of Anselme who was commonly accounted to be the Author of it and the like is confessed by Cardinall c Hosius in confessione Petri cap. 73. Hosius himselfe But this was the time wherein the Dâ—vill was let loose and wherein your Pope Hildebrand did not onely d Non solum fabulas comminiscitur annales corrumpit res gestas invertit sed etiam coelestia oracula adulterat Aven Annal. l. 4. pag. 455. invent Fables corrupt Chronicles and inverted things that were done but did also adulterate the Scriptures themselves and therefore Cardinall Beno who wrote of the life of Hildebrand and was living in that age is e Ind. lib. prohib p. 11. vide Illyric de vita Hildebrand p. 1322. forbidden also to be read because he toucheth to the quicke your Caput fidei the head of your Church In the twelfth age a Sigeberti liber contra Papam Gregorium contra Epist Paschalis Papae Ind. lib. prohib p. 85. Sigebertus Monachus Gemblacensis wrote a Booke against Pope Gregory The twelfth Age An. 1100. to 1200. and against the Epistle of Pope Paschalis hee lived and dyed a member of the Roman Church yet his Booke is prohibited because it complaineth of the state of your declining Church b Sigebertus Ab. ep p. 188. in lib. Goldasli Replio Hactenus interpretatur ideo docuisse PetruÌ„ per Babylonem siguare Romam quia tunc temporis Roma confusa erat Idololatriâ omni spurtitie At nunc dolor meus mihi interpretatur quòd Petrus prophetico spiritu dicens Ecclesiam in Babylone collectam praevidit confusionem dissentionis quâ hodie scinditur Ecclesia Ibid. For what greater confusion saith he was there in times past in Babylon than there is now in the Church In Babylon there was a confusion of languages among the Gentiles in the Church of Rome the tongues are divided and the minds of the faithfull Saint Peter saith the Church which is Babylon salutes you hitherto hee did interpret that Peter by Babylon did signifie Rome because Rome at that time was confounded with Idolatry and all uncleannesse But my griefe doth now interpret unto mee that Peter by a propheticke spirit by the Church at Babylon foresaw the confusion of dissention which doth now rent the Church of Rome If this testimonie had made for our Church as it doth against yours certainly you would never forbid the Record to be read nor to be blotted out but this shewes that there was a revolt a defection from the faith after the loosing of Sathan which were proper for your men to permit to bee read and seene in after ages that the truth might appeare in all and every age of the alteration of the Church c Arnol de villa Novaopera nisi repurgâ—ntur Ind. lib prohib p. 5 36. 37 Arnoldus Carnotensis Abbas bonae vallis his workes are forbidden till they be purged and for no other reason as I can conceive but because he discovers the errours of your Church He tells us that Cloyster Monkes are damned because they falsifie the doctrine of Christ and leade soules to Hell He tells us that your Clergie-men did most perfidiously mingle Philosophicall dreames with the sacred Scriptures He tells us that Masses did neither profit the living nor the dead and for these and the like Protestations against the abuses of his time he is now condemned by your expurgatory Indices In the thirteenth Age Anno 1215. Urspergensis in Anno 793. Urspergensis Abbas is both corrupted and purged by the Inquisitours The Synod saith he which not long before was assembled under Irene and Constantine his sonne at Constantinople called by them the seventh generall Councell was there in the Councell of Franckford rejected by them all as voyd and not to be named the seventh nor any Councell at all This Councell was assembled at Nice and not at Constantinople but the word Constantinople is forged in stead of Nice that the honour of that Councell for Images might not seeme to be impeached or condemned when as the Synod at Constantinople banished Images Now what answer I pray is made in defence of this forgerie August Stench de Donat. Constant l. 2. numero 60. Behold your Augustine Stenchius Keeper of the Popes Librarie tells us that wee have forged those Bookes and conveyed them into the Popes Library where they lye written in ancient hands How probable this answer may seeme that wee should forge Authours in defence of your cause and convey them into the Vatican at Rome I leave it to be judged sure I am it stands corrupted in your Copie printed by command of your Inquisitours and Superiours Againe there be certaine additions to the Historie of Urspergensis which treate of divers memorable things from the time of Fredericke the second Ind. lib. prohib p. 94. unto the time of the Emperour Charles the fifth that is from the yeare 1230. to the yeare 1537.
all which are forbidden to be read wherein are contained the proceedings of the Councell of Constance against Hierome of Prague and John Husse where the decree is mentioned for the 19. Session of the Councell of Constance viz. a Sess 19. decernitur Haereticis non esse servandam fidem quam vocant Salvum conductum Paralip p. 378. That faith is not to bee kept with Heretikes which is wholly omitted and purged in your printed Councels Honorius Bishop of Anthum in France Anno 1220. Honorio Angustodunensi falso ut creditur adscriptus liber de praedestinatione libero arbitrio Ind. lib. prohib p. 47. wrote a Booke of Predestination and Free-will but so different from your doctrine that your Inquisitors forbid him to be read untill hee be purged What good soever the Elect doe it is God that workes it in them as it is written God doth worke in us both the will and the deed according to his good pleasure if therefore God doe worke in us what reward is imputed to man God doth worke and the Elect do worke God doth worke his Elect by his preventing Grace to be willing and by his subsequent Grace to bee able and both co-operate by Free-will by consenting with a good will this good will is rewarded in them as it is written We have received Grace for Grace wee have received Grace when God prevented us to be willing and followed us to make us able Looke into his forbidden Dialogues Turne thee saith he to the Citizens of Babylon consider the principall persons there and thou shalt finde the See of the Beast for they neglect the service of God pollute his Priesthood seduce his people and reject all Scriptures which belong unto salvation Vide Illyr p. 1426 in Dialog d. Praedestin lib. arbitrio For these and the like discoveries of the corruptions in your Church he is forbidden and under this pretence also that the Booke of Dialogues is falsely ascribed to him In the fourteenth age flourished William Ocham a Fryer Minorite and a learned man saith Bellarmine An. 1320. Bell. de script Eccl. p. 269. de Gulielmo Ocham but being too earnest a favourer of Ludovike the Emperour by that meanes hee fell into some errours and therefore deserved to have his name registred amongst the Bookes prohibited Now observe those errors Ocham Compend Error Joh. 22. He complained that many in his dayes perverted the holy Scriptures denyed the sayings of the holy Fathers and rejected the Canons of the Church and civill Constitutions of the Emperours He professed according to St. Hieromes and the doctrine of Gregory the Great that the Bookes of Judith Idem Dial. par 3. Tract 1. l. 3. c. 16. Tobit the Machabees Ecclesiasticus and the Booke of Wisdome were not to bee received for confirmation of any matter of faith He professed that the Pope and Cardinals were no rule of faith Idem Tract 2. part 2. c. 10. Dial. part 1. l. 5. c. 25. p. Mihi 494. He professed that a Generall Councell although it be a part of the militant universall Church yet is not the universall Church and consequently saith he It is rashnesse to say that a Generall Councell cannot erre against the faith Idem Dial. l. 3. prim Tract 3. part c. 8. He professeth that it cannot be proved manifestly by Scripture that Peter was Bishop of Rome or that he removed his seat from Antioch to Rome or that the Rishop of Rome succeeded St. Peter Idem Dial. part 1. l. 2. c. 3. p. 413. or that the Church of Rome hath the Primacie or that hee governed the Church of Rome or any thing touching the Papacie thereof He professeth with us Idem Dial. l. 2. c. 1. part 3. p. 788. that though it be expedient there should be one Bishop over some part of the Church and People of God yet there is not the same reason there should be one over the whole Christian world And lastly touching Pope John the 22. he reports from the mouthes of them that heard it that in the yeare 1333. on Munday being the third of January Idem 2. part proem p. 740. Guliel Ocham opus 90. dierum Item Dialogi script omnia contra Johannem 22. Ind. l. prohib p. 4. Pope John held a publike Consistorie wherein by word of mouth with great earnestnesse he indeavoured to prove that the soules of Saints being purged see not God face to face till after the day of judgement These are the supposed errors which caused his Dialogues and other of his workes to be prohibited In the fifteenth age Anno 1420. Nicholai Clemangis opera quamdiu expurgata non prodierint Ind. lib. proh p. 71. Clemangis de corrupto statu Ecclesiae Nicholas Clemangis Doctor of Paris Archdeacon of Bayeux so long as his works remaine unpurged saith your Index are forbidden Now observe the reasons why hee is put to silence The truth is he wrote a Booke Of the Corrupt estate of the Church he declared that the Pope was the cause of all the calamities and disorders of the Church he shewes that he was not contented with the fruits and profits of the Bishopricke of Rome and St. Peters Patrimonie Idem c. 4. though very great and Royall he layd his greedie hands on other mens flocks replenished with milke and wooll Cap. 5. 7. and usurped the right of bestowing Bishoprickes and livings Ecclesiasticall throughout all Christendome Cap. 5. and disannulled the lawfull elections of Pastors by his reservations provisions and advowsons Cap. 6. Cap. 7. Cap. 8. and oppressed Churches with first fruits of one yeere of two yeeres of three yeeres yea sometimes of foure yeeres with tithes with exactions with procurations with spoiles of Prelates and infinite other burthens Cap. 9. and ordained Collectors to seize upon these taxes and tributes throughout all Provinces with horrible abusing of suspensions interdictments and excommunications if any man refused to pay them Cap. 10. Cap. 11. Cap. 12. and used such merchandise with suites in his Court and rules of his Chancery that the house of God was a denne of Theeves Cap. 13. and raised his Cardinalls as complices of his pompe from Clergie men of low estate Cap. 14. to be the Peeres of Princes and enriched them with his dispensations to have and to hold Offices and Benefices not two or three or ten or twenty but a hundred or two hundred yea sometimes foure hundred or five hundred or more and those not small or leane ones but even the best and fattest To bee short in that he filled the Sanctuary of the Lord with dumbe dogges Cap. 19. 20. Cap. 7. 14. Cap. 29. Cap. 42. Cap. 18. Cap. 3.4.5.9 and evill beasts even from the highest Prelates to the basest hedge-Priests through usurpations exemptions compositions symony prostitution and fornication committed with Princes of the earth and all to maintaine the pride and
else doe you and your associates confesse that the contrary Tenets were taught and revived by the Ancients And as touching the name of Antichrist if that be appropriate to Heretikes it cannot touch the members of our Church for we make Christ and his Apostles the sole rule of our Faith On the other side if you consider the Pope either as he sits in the place of Christ as his Vicar Generall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is agâ—â—â—â— Christ in the place of Christ as his Vicar or as he and his adherents teach and uphold a doctrine against Christ for the word Antichrist imports both without doubt they beare the markes of Antichrist and consequently the word Heretike reflects upon your selves Cassander tells us there be some who make the Pope of Rome Almost a God Cassand de officio Pii viri preferring his authoritie not onely above the whole Church but above the sacred Scriptures holding his judgement equall to the divine Oracles and for an infallible rule of Faith I see no reason saith he but that these men should be called Pseudo-Catholikes or Papists Indeed I must confesse I much wonder that any Protestant should give you that honourable title of Catholike especially when you terme them by the name of Heretikes Those that have the marke of the Beast imprinted in their foreheads have borrowed both the Name and Nature from him and therefore your Cardinall tells us Bell. de Not. Eccles c. 4. The word Papist is derived from the Pope such as was Peter And more particularly your Gregory Martin and the Rhemists give you to understand Rhem. Annot. in Acts. 11.26 that to be a Papist is to bee a Christian man a childe of the Church and subject to Christs Vicar You that are so inquisitive after other mens pedigrees see if with all your Heraldrie you can make good your nominal descent from Christ and as you stile him Pope Peter Your Father Bristow Bristow Demand 8. as a knowne Antiquarie in this point gives your Father Bellarmine the lye for he avowes it for certaine that your name Papist was never heard of till the dayes of Pope Leo the Tenth and this was 1500. yeares after Christ and this opinion I am sure is most probable and more sutable to the Noveltie of your Religion But say you we Catholikes stile the Knight and the Reformers by the common name of Hereticks You told me formerly the title of Sir would be left for me now you have added to the title the name of Hereticke and you professe it is the worst word of all It seemes the worst word you have is good enough for me But I pardon you and I must let you know that the name of Catholike is as comely with the Professors of your new doctrine as a golden ring in a swines snout And as touching the name of Hereticke wherewith you charge me you rightly resemble Athalia 4 Kings 11. who when shee understood that Joas the right inheritour of the Crowne of Judah was proclaimed King ranne in her furie to the Temple and cryed out Treason Treason when the treason was not in King Joas but in herselfe that wrought it Your Alphonsus à Castro hath written a Booke against the Heretickes in all ages and in his Index haereticorum I have searched diligently and I finde the names of certaine Popes among them but mine owne name I doe not finde For I professe with St. Austin Errare possum haereticus esse nolo I may erre but I will not bee an Hereticke Shall I make my confession unto you I beleeve all things which are contained in the Scriptures and nothing contrary or besides them as matter of faith necessary to salvation Cum hoc credimus priuscredâ—mus nihil amplius credendum esse Tertul. Ibid. I beleeve the holy Catholicke Church This is an Article of my Faith and this I first received from the Apostles Creed Next I undoubtedly beleeve the Nicene Creed and this was called Catholicke by those holy Fathers to distinguish the Heretikes from the Orthodoxe Christians in the Primitive Church or according to your owne words Chap. 1. p. 2. appointed to be publikely professed by all such as meant to bee counted Catholikes Concil Trid. Sess 3. and for the same cause your Councell of Trent decreed it to be received as a Shield against Heresies and therefore by your owne confession the Councels decree and your Creed it selfe I am free from the name of Heretike Lastly I professe and beleeve Athanasius Creed and that Holy and ancient Father witnesseth of that confession Haec est fides Catholica This is the Catholike Faith If therefore I beleeve the Scriptures and Catholike Church which teacheth the true Faith If I beleeve the Articles of the Nicene Creed which distinguisheth the right Beleevers from the Heretikes If I receive Athanasius Creed which containes the summe and substance of all Catholike Faith and doctrine what remaines then why I should not be exempted from the name of Heretike unlesse I shall acknowledge with you the fourth Creed published by Pope Pius the fourth and consequently subscribe to new particular doctrines which as you confesse doth ever accompanie the nature of Heresie But the Reformers are Heretikes He that shall heare but the word Reformers in all probability will conceive that they were men which opposed some errors or heresies crept into the Church and for that cause desired a Reformation In the Churches of Corinth Galatia Pergamus and Thyatira there were some of the Sadduces opinion who denied the Resurrection others that joyned Circumcision and the workes of the Law with Christ and the worke of salvation The Apostles you know did reprove those errors in their dayes and no doubt many accordingly did reforme themselves Now will you condemne those reformed persons for Heretikes because they differed from the rest with an utter dislike of those errors which the seduced partie retained Surely this is the true state and condition of our Church and accordingly your Trent Fathers made a decree for Reformation in the Councell and pretended that it was summoned to redresse Heresies which were crept into the Church and will you say if they had redressed them the Reformers had beene Heretikes The Rogatian Heretikes would have made the world beleeve that they were the onely Catholikes and the Arrian Heretikes called the true Christians sometimes Ambrosians sometimes Athanasians sometimes Homoâ—sians And in this manner St. Paul himselfe was called before the Judges to make answer to matter of Heresie and according to this way which you call Heresie Acts 24. so worship we the God of our Fathers beleeving all things which are written in the Law and the Prophets They that so rashly pronounce and call every thing Heresie are often stricken with their owne dart Alph. de Heres l. 1. c. 7. saith your owne Alphonsus and fall into the same pit which themselves have digged for others Hee shewes therefore
by way of conclusion what hee would have called Heresie Ibid. This would I rather call Heresie saith he to accompt mens writings among the Scriptures of God and so doe they that thinke it a wicked matter to dissent from the writings of man no lesse than it were the judgements of God Now that your men are guilty of such Heresies in the highest degree appeares by his owne confession Ibid. l. 1. c. 2. p. 14. for he complaines of Gratian who did insert the Popes decretall Epistles amongst the holy Scriptures as if they were of equall authoritie with them and he speakes as an eare witnesse of others who in their publicke Sermons have declared that whosoever shall dissent from the opinion of St. Thomas is to be censured for an Hereticke O fortes verbi Dei Praecones O powerfull Preachers of the word of God saith he or rather I may truly say of St. Thomas doctrine l. 1. c. 7. for by this meanes it will come to passe that blessed Bonaventure must be censured of heresie Ibid. p. mihi 31. for he crosseth St. Thomas and blessed Anselme must be suspected of Heresie because contrary to Thomas opinion he thinketh him not a lover of our blessed Virgin who refuseth to celebrate the Feast of her Conception As this Author wrote a tract against Hereticks so likewise he professeth that the head of the Roman Church as well as the members are subject to that capitall accusation whereof you accuse the Reformers and particularly he doth instance from Platina in Pope Liberius for an Arrian Hereticke and Pope Anastasius for a favourer of the Nestorian Heretickes and withall hee resolves the question which without all question is so to bee resolved that the Pope which you make one of the infallible Rules of your Faith may become an Hereticke You shall doe well therefore to forbeare your name Catholicke till you can free your Pope and his adherents from the markes of Heretickes In the meane time I might more justly retort your owne words cum faenore into your owne bosome and say We Reformed Catholickes not onely stile but prove J. R. and the Romanists to be rightly stiled by the common name of Heretickes I proceed to the rest of your accusations Theodoret say you is wholly impertinent Bellarmine his meaning is abused and his words corrupted First touching Theodoret his proofe notwithstanding your exception stands good for if the agreement of both parties in the Nicene Councell in his judgement ought to have allayed the heate of contention in the Church of Antioch I might well conclude much more that the three Creeds and the first foure Generall Councels wherein both sides agree ought to have abated the edge of your sharpe and bitter Invectives against our Church And as for abusing of Bellarmine I assure you it was farre from my thoughts and you cannot be ignorant that the inference according to true meaning standeth thus If Protestants beleeve and hold all things necessarie for all Christians then are they not to be accompted damned persons and worse than Infidels But they beleeve the Apostles Creed they teach the ten Commandements and administer some few Sacraments which in your Cardinals opinion are those things which are simply necessarie for all to know and beleeve and to this argument you answere nothing but you quarrell about words When I translate nonnulla a few Sacraments you say I falsifie Bellarmine for the word few is not there and yet you know well that by nonnulla hee doth not meane omnia Nonnulla is a diminutive terme signifying not none that is some be they never so fevv and therefore those which he meaneth are but few The word utilia is in the same place of Bellarmine and as for other words added or left out they alter not the sense nor are wee bound precisely to the words but to the sense in translating a passage out of any Author But say you what man ever tooke Babylon for a true Church If by Babylon you understand literally the ancient Citie of Chaldea or that famous City in Aegypt once called by the name of Memphis and now of Cair you know well that it is not my meaning so to take it for you confesse that I otherwise expresse my selfe but that a particular Church as namely your Church of Rome which was sometimes a sound that is a right-beleeving Church may afterwards fall into Heresie and become spirituall and mysticall Babylon this is not onely my assertion but your Romanists and fellow Jesuites in the Church of Rome Ribera your fellow Jesuite of Salamanca in Spaine tells us by way of prevention If Rome shall commit the same things hereafter which she committed in the time of John she shall be called Babylon againe as it was in the case of Hierusalem which of a faithfull City once became afterwards a Harlot And according to the Prophesie of St. John he protesteth in this manner We know this truth so perspicuously by the words of the Revelation Ut ne stultissimus quidem negare possit that the veriest foole cannot deny the same Then he concludes Riberae Comment in Apoc. 14. v. 8. in c. 14. num 31. n. 32. Since Babylon shall be the shop of all Idolatrie and of all impieties therefore it cannot be doubted but that this shall be the condition of Rome hereafter I will come nearer to you Your Monke Sigebert about 500. yeares agoe interpreting the words of St. Peter The Church at Babylon salutes you delivereth this doctrine Sigeb Ep. p. mihi 188. in l. Goldasti Replic Hitherto Peter by Babylon did signifie Rome because Rome at that time was confounded with Idolatrie and all uncleannesse but my griefe doth now interpret unto mee that Peter by a Propheticke spirit by the Church of Babylon foresaw the confusion of dissention with which the Church of Rome at this day is rent in pieces Honorius Bishop of Anthun in France speaking of the fall of the Church of Rome not long after the same time cryes out to the members of his Church Honor. Angust in Dial. de Praedest l. arbit Turne to the Citizens of Babylon and see what they are behold the buildings of that damned Citie consider the principall persons there and thou shalt finde the See of the Beast Thus you see the first Babylonian tels what he feared would come to passe in the Church of Rome hereafter but these two later proclaimed openly that Rome was become Babylon many hundred yeares since and for their loud cries their tongues are now cut out by the command of your Inquisitors How undeservedly were these men punished and forbidden to speake the truth let the Reader judge but that which is observable you raze the Records which testifie for us you forbid them to speake if it make against your Church and then you demand of us What man ever tooke Babylon for Rome I will give you one witnesse more who is ancient and
he hath wrote a Tract De haeresi communicandi sub utrâque specie And to passe by all the Trent Articles the deniall of all or any of which makes a man an Heretike your infallible Pope Nicholas proclaimeth Qui Romanae Ecclesiae privilegium auferre conatur hicproculdubio labitur in haeresin that whosoever goeth about to abrogate the priviledges of the Church of Rome he is no doubt an Heretike If the deniall of all or any of these make an Heretike there is no doubt all the Reformed Churches stand guilty of that capitall crime by the law of your Church and your Popes doome Yet let me tell you the Scriptures were translated into all Languages in the Primitive times and Christ and his Apostles did communicate in both kindes and your first foure generall Councels did bound and limit those privile dges of the Church of Rome which are now extended into all parts of the Christian world and were all these Heretikes If you call this Heresie goe on and fill up the measure of your wrath untill the time come that Christ and his Saints acquit us or condemne us of that imputation In the meane time you shall doe well to reflect upon your selfe and consider rather the case at this day betwixt the Sorbonists and the Jesuites which meerely toucheth your owne particular Aurcl in vindiciis pag. 383. Idem in libro sine titulo Hermannus Laemelius that is to say John Floyd termes the propositions of the Parisians destructive to the Church and hereticall on the other side they accuse him of heresie Hadier in ad mâ—ait ad Lect. p. 8. 9. 16. 24. blasphemie and impietie and the like Are you all members of one Church under one head the Pope and are your propositions different and hereticall on both sides and must I say that you and the rest have the name of heresie onely by the condemnation of the Church But you are sure the Pope will not condemne his owne members and without his judgment they are but words of course or at best but course phrases delivered in heate against an adversary For say you The Fathers did forbeare absolutely to condemne things for heresies till they had acquainted the Bishop of Rome and had his judgement as is cleere by St. Cyrill of Alexandria in the case of Nestorius Neither doe we denie that in this and the like case the Bishop of Rome ought to be acquainted For Nestorius was Patriarch of Constantinople and therefore good reason the Bishop of Rome as another Patriarch should be acquainted with it that hee might be judged by his Peeres but in other cases they sent Letters without acquainting the Bishop of Rome neither ought you to require or expect that we should produce any such letters of premonition against the points of Trent doctrine for which we now condemne you because those errors which then began to spring in the Church by custome and pertinacies became heresies in many ages after About that time and in that very Age St. Austin condemned the superstition of some in worshipping Sepulchers and Images which at this day is an Article of your Faith but you answer that he condemned the heathenish and superstitious worship of dead perhaps wicked mens tombs and pictures and for a solution of this place you referre me to Bellarmine It seems you could give me no satisfactory answer of your own and therefore you returne me to your Cardinal but I wonder why you do not recite his answer to this place I conceived that you were ashamed of it or there was some misprision that made you conceale it thereupon I have perused it and find that he hath falsified both the place and meaning of it As for instance whereas Austin saith Aug. de moribus Eccles â—a thot l. 1.6.34 p. mihi 774. ToÌ„ 1. Bell. de Reliquiis Sanct. l. 2. c. 4. I know many worshippers of tombes and pictures your Cardinall leaves out the word pistures and saith I know many worshippers of tombes and for his full solution he subjoyneth Austin wrote this in the beginning of his first conversion Again he cites another place of S. Austan as it were to illustrate the former without any respect or mention of the worshippers of pictures and tells us Ibid. that the Emperour did pray at the Sepulcher of St. Peter yet proves not the point in question that he did worship the Sepulcher it selfe for who doubts but that we also may worship God at St. Peters shrine and yet not wo ship the shrine it selfe Nay hee goeth on further and she wes that Austin did not reprehend Chrysostome and Hierome but the ignorant sort of people for Chrysostome saith Let us adore the Tombes of Martyrs when as there are no such words in Chrysostome but rather Let us adorne them Ut Tumulos Martyrum de center cur ari Chrys And whereas he saith further that Hierome wisheth Marcella a Ladie to worship the ashes of the Prophets in Bethlem so likewise I say he doth wish her in the same place to lick their dust and therefore it was not to be understood as a thing spoken properly but figuratively For elsewhere he saith expresly against Vigilantius I say not we worship not nor adore thereliques of Martyrs but neither the Sunne nor the Moone nor Angels nor Archangels nor Cherubin nor Seraphin Neither did S. Austin speak as you say of the heathenish and superstitious worshipping of wicked mens Tombes Andr. resp ad Card. Bell. pag. mihi 49. but of them which in ipsa vera Religione in true Religion were worshippers of pictures and shrines For he shewes that his owne mother Monica did usually bring to the shrines of Saints certaine Bread and Wine August Confes l. 6. c. 2. and other provision but because the celebrating after the manner of the memory of the dead did very much resemble the superstition of the heathen she was forbidden it by St. Ambrose which forbidding saith he shee did so piously and obediently embrace as that my selfe did wonder to see her made with such ease rather a condemner of her owne ancient custome than a questioner of the present prohibition For a conclusion whereas you would excuse it that St. Austin did condemne onely the superstitious worship of wicked mens Tombes your men are likewise guiltie of the same worship For your owne Cardinall will tell you Bell. de Sanct. Beat. l. 1. c. 7. that the people of the Roman Church did for a long time celebrate Sulpitius for a Martyr who afterwards did appeare and told them that he had heene a theefe and was damned Idem ibid. And that Alexander the third reprehended certaine men for worshipping one as a Martyr that was killed in his drunkennesse and thus to use your owne words for these I send you backe againe to Bellarmine for an answer I come to the rest of your answers First I cited out of Ferus that Masses Monasteries Ceremonies
the See of Rome should be the head of all Churches for before that time saith Vspergensis the Church of Constantinople did write her selfe chiefe of all Churches so that anteà before that time the Bishop of Rome had no Supremacy and this agrees to Pope Gregories owne confession None of my Praedecessors did ever use that prophane Title Nullus unquam praedecessorum meorum hoc tam prophano vocabulo uti consuevit Greg. ep 36. l. 4. Nay more you had two Bishops of Constantinople viz. Iohn and Cyriacus who both successively assumed the title of Vniversall Bishops before ever the Bishop of Rome had any and those Bishops were suborned by Mauritius a bloody Emperour like unto Phocas who at that time made Constantinople the chiefe place of his aboade and by meanes of advancing the Bishops dignity sought to winne the greater credit to the City Gregory the Great writes unto them both severally as they lived in their Sees and doth accuse them of Pride of Singularity of error of vanity and blasphemy in that new title neither doth he make claime to it himselfe being then Bishop of Rome For mine owne part saith he I seeke to encrease in vertues and not in vanitie of titles Greg. lib. 1. ep 30. for if you call me universall Bishop you deny your selves to be that which indeede you are And when Mauritius the Emperour did countenance the Supremacy in the Bishop of Constantinople Gregory greets him in this manner Idem l. 4. Indict 13. ep 32. p. mihi I have received letters from my vertuous Lord that I should bee at peace with my brother and fellow Bishop Iohn indeede it well beseemeth a Religious Prince to command Bishops in such things but this was heavy to mee that my Soveraigne Lord did not rebuke him for his Pride After the death of Iohn the first Oecumenicall cumenicall Bishop Cyriacus succeeded in the See of Constantinople and continued that title of Oecumenicall Bishop by the power of the Emperour and accordingly Pope Gregory writes againe to Mauritius not to take part with Cyriacus and withall writes to Cyriacus at his first entrance into his Bishopricke Idem l. 6. ep 28. that he would abolish the word of Pride by which there was so great scandall given to the Church After the death of Mauritius Phocas who was a souldier and fought under the banner of Mauritius was proclaimed Emperour by the mutineirs who having committed many murthers and cruelties which Cyriacus could not approve for otherwise it is probable he might have continued the title of Oecumenicall he called a Synod at Rome consisting of 62. Bishops and by vertue of his power granted his Letters Patents to Boniface then Bishop of Rome whereby your Popes had the first authority of Volumus jubemus wee will and command And thus Phocas procured his Imperiall authority by treachery and blood Boniface obteined his power and Supremacy by pollicy and flattery of a bloody Emperour and this saith Platina was magnâ cum contentione with great contention Neither did Boniface enjoy this Title many monthes nor Phoeaeescape the heavy hand of God for he was afterwards slaine by Heraclius Quo quis peccat eo punitur as Mauritius was by him From Phocas you ascend to your first Progenitors the Kings of the Gentiles wherein I shewed the originall of your Papall Supremacy not that your Popes did lineally succeede them but that they did exceede them farre in Tyranny But the Pope useth to stile himselfe servum servorum Dei the servant of the servants of God pag. 95. and will you have it say you that by reason of his humility there must not be any Superiority Surely no for he that said learne of me for I am lowly and meeke made likewise this promise to him that would follow his lesson Matth. 20.25 He that humbleth himselfe shall be exalted Howsoever it is not the title of servus servorum that makes him Christs disciple or a universall Bishop for in that he succeedeth rather Canaan then Boniface but he must follow Christs precept and his example his precept was Luke 22.27 That none of his Apostles should reigne as Lord over his Brethren his example was I am among you as hee that serveth Neither is it the title which he assumes unto himselfe that makes him humble neither doe his Proselites followers so much undervalue him as a servant For saith Gerson Gers de potest Eccles consider 12. Fawning deceitfull flattery whispereth into the eares of ecclesiasticall persons especially of the Pope in a shamelesse manner saying as there is no power but of God so there is none either Temporall or Ecclesiasticall Imperiall or Regall but from the Pope in whose thigh Christ hath written King of Kings and Lord of Lords of whose power to dispute is sacrilegious boldnesse to whom no man may say sir why doe you so though he alter overturne waste and confound all States rules and possessions of men let me be judged a lyar saith he if these things be not found written by them that seeme wise in their owno eyes and if some Topes have not given credit to such lying and flattering words You see then the Popes owne creatures and servants would make all other to be servants unto him But it is strange to see how many of your men would palliate and extenuate the Popes power and Tyrannicall usurpation sometimes under the vaile and title of a servant and sometimes by a ceremony used at the time of his creation your Mr. Harding witnesseth both and seconds his humility in the title of a servant with his privie reason that is saith he lest the Soveraignty of honour exhibited unto him Iuel and Harding should in his owne conceit lift him higher then the degree of humane condition to that purpose saith he seemeth the stoole of easement at his creation to be set before him to temper the highnesse of that vocation with the base consideration of humane infirmities and necessities That is to say that he may remember himselfe in the midst of all his glory to be but a man when as in truth it is recorded that the Porphirie stoole serveth to put the Pope in remembrance of his virility Vt sedentis genitalia abuitimo diacono attrectentur â—sa bellicas that the world may know he is no woman Howsoever it seemes the title of servant is not sufficient to teach him humility without the stoole of easement and a stoole of easement is no sweete badge of his humility But this is as common to others as to himselfe and therefore by that way of Hamilitie he will not merit a Superioritie But say you because hee must carry himselfe like a Servant must he not therefore feed the lambs and sheepe of Christ God forbid But Saint Bernard who otherwise maintained the Popes Supremacie told us about 500 yeares since that the Bishops of Rome as well as other Bishops who had the
Article of your Faith and ours and this is agreed on both sides to be without feare or perill of Idolatry Lastly as if you were guilty of false accusations you say suppose Adrian hath erred in this or in any other point doth it follow that he agreeeth with you in all other Then you tell a story of the Popes Bull against Luther You quarrell with your owne shadow for I had no relation at all to your Pope nor made any instance of him more then in a Marginall Note but since you stand so much upon the justification of his Doctrine hearken I pray wherein he maketh for you and wherein he is wholly against you Agrippa de vanit scient c. 64. p. mihi cap. de Lenonia Your Agrippa tells us that in these latter times Pope Adrian erected a most famous Stewes at Rome I confesse in this particular you may challenge him wholly for your owne But whereas you say he detested Luthers doctrine as most wicked and damnable you might have added likewise he wished a reformation of his owne and withall taught that doctrine for which you condemne both Luther and all his adherents for Haeretikes History of Trent l. 1. pag. 25. 26. 30. First witnesse his Nu tio Francisco Chiericato who had Commission from his Holinesse To ackowledge that the confusion of the Church was caused especially by the sinnes of Priests and Prelats confessing that some abhominations some yeares since were committed even in the Holy See that there were many abuses in spirituall things so that it may be said that the infirmity is passed from the head to the members from the Popes to the inferiour Pelates And lastly he resolves himselfe that he would use all diligence that the Church of Rome should be first reformed and the rather because hee saw all the world did earnestly desire it And that you may know the Church of Rome as well as the Court of Rome was fallen into errors and heresies hee himselfe publisheth that he heard it related of his Predecessor Pope Iohn the 22th That hee would have induced the Vniversitie of Paris to beleeve that the soules of the righteous doe not see God face to face and that no man should take his degree in Divinitie unlesse hee should first sweare to maintaine that perstiferous Heresie and perpetually to cleave unto it And that you may be assured hee was not wholly yours hee affirmeth for certaine one Position which would confound all Poperie Adrian in 4. de Sacram. Confir sub finem viz. That the Pope may erre even in things touching the Faith and avouch that which is Heresie y his determination or decree And thus your Pope Adrian complaines of many abominable things in his owne Church he tels us his Predecessor was reputed a Heretike he confesseth that both himselfe and all his Successors after him were in possibilitie of erring even in matters of Faith and it is very probable in his erring opinion hee began to erect that most noble Brothell-house in his owne See And thus much touching the Marginall note of Pope Adrian Your second exception is touching Costerus occasioned by these words Wee accuse them for taking away the Cup from the Lay-people they excuse it that it was not taken up by the commandment of the Bishops but is crept in the Bishops winking thereat saith Costerus In answer to this say you I would know what excuse you can find for such a notorious lye Let the Reader judge whether this modestie of yours deserve an Anser or whether this saying of Costerus may not be termed an Excuse Howbeit say you this custome came in not so much by the commandement of the Bishop as by the peoples use and practise Well take it as you would have it yet I say his meaning must bee understood not at all by the Commandement of the Bishops for that which is done by Command cannot bee said to have crept in But the truth is under colour of quarrelling with words and giving me the lye you seeke to dazle the eyes of your Reader and when you omit the weightier things of your Church then you question Where is Costerus testimony for Antiquitie Vniversalitie Certaintie and Safetie when as you know well this testimony was not cited for that ende And thus you straine at a Gnat and swallow a Camell Let us heare the rest of your verball discourse Since you are so shamelesse as to say That we doe not condemne you for receiving in both kinds Looke into the Councell of Trent and see whether you doe not finde a heavy curse c. Thus you And are you sure that your Councell hath sufficiently cursed us For following Christs example and receiving in both kinds for those were my very words Following Christs example which you altogether omitted If therefore we have altered any part of Christs Institution I say againe Curse on in Gods name and let your curses take effect but if the celebration of our Mysteries be answerable to his will and word that first ordained them you curse not us whom you would hurt but him that your cursed tongues cannot hurt which is God to be blessed for ever But let us heare your Councels The Councell of Trent say you layes a heavie curse against any that shall say that all and every of the Faithfull ought by the precept of God or necessitie of salvation to receive both kinds This cursing Councell toucheth not my Assertion for this Canon speaketh of the Precept of Christ whereas I spake of his Example onely Bell. de Euch 〈◊〉 cap. 7. and for proofe of this wee have Bellarmines testimony as well as ours It is not to be doubted but that is best and sittest to be practised which Christ himselfe hath done And therefore my Assertion still stands good viz You doe not condemne us for following Christs example Touching the Councell of Constance it condemnes not our receiving in both kinds but prevents the condemnation of her owne They decreed their halfe Communion with this Caution Concil Constant Sess 13. that If any should obstinately maintaine that it was unlawfull or erronious to receive in one kind hee ought to be punished and driven out as an Heretike And howsoever you would seeme to condemne our Assertion yet you condemne not our practise as unlawfull for the Councell of Basil not twentie yeares after your Decree in the Councell of Constance granted the use of the Cup to the Bohemians Your third exception is touching Mr. Harding who in the question betwixt him and Bishop Iuel of Private Masse stands not to justifie his solitary or private Masse but rather excuseth it in this manner Iuels Articles of Private Masse pag. That it is through their owne default and negligence whereof the godly and faithfull people have sithence the time of the Primitive Church much complained This say you hath no sense for here is a Relative Their without an Antecedent And let me tell you this
alledged by the Knight saith not that there are no more then foure Sacraments but on the contrarie concludes Par. 4. q 5. n. 7. art 2. that there bee neither more nor fewer then seven Sacraments t is true indeed that Hales was of opinion that the forme and matter which wee now use in the Sacrament of confirmation were not appointed by our Saviour but by the Church in the Councell at Melda but this Hales saith sine praejudicio that is with leave not stifly nor arrogantly maintaining his owne opinion Hugo de Sancto victore excludeth not Penance from being a Sacrament For in his 23. chapter hee calleth Penance the second board after shipwrack C. 12. Septem sunt principalia ecclesiae sacramenta c. and saith that if any man endanger his cleansing which he hath received by Baptisme he may arise and scape by Penance Moreover the same Hugo in his Glasse of the mysteries of the Church saith that there are seven prinoipall Sacraments of the Church whereof five are called generall because they belong unto all to wit Baptisme Confirmation Eucharist Penance Extreame vnction and two speciall to wit Matrimonie and Order Although Bellarmine denieth that Extreame Vnction can be deduced out of the last of S. Marke and Cajetan out of the first of S. Iames and although Hugo and Peter Lomberd and Bonaventure and Alenfis and Altisiodorensis denie it to bee instituted by Christ yet none of them all denie it to be a Sacrament Bessarion the Cardinall saith not that there are but two Sacraments for he was a great man in the Councell of Florence wherein seven Sacraments are precisely taught but that we find these two Sacraments expresly delivered and that wee find none other and none of the rest so delivered that is so plainly Soto though he denieth that ordination of Bishops is truly and properly a Sacrament yet hee denieth not the Sacrament of order in the Church Durand saith indeed that Matrimonie is not ae Sacrament univocally agreeing with the other six but all acknowledge it to bee an errour in him and Divines of his owne time did note it for such though the matter then were not so clearely defined Cajetan saith indeed that the prudent reader cannot inferre out of the words of S. Paul Ephes 5. hoc est magnum Sacramentum that Matrimonie is a Sacrament yet hee denieth it not to bee a Sacrament For though it bee not inferred from that place Locor Theol. l. 8. c. 1. si Lutheram de hoc matrimoniorum genere disceptare voluerint intelligant se in scholae disceptationem incidisse necoportere catholicum ad eorum argumenta respondere sin verò argumententur matrimonium cum sacris ceremonijs administratum Sacramentum ecclesiae non esse tunc catholicus respondeat fidenter securè contra pugnet it may be inferred from oiher or if neither from that nor other yet it may bee deduced out of tradition Canus telleth us that the Divines speake so uncertainly of the matter and forme of Matrimonie that hee should bee accounted an unwise man who in so great differences of opinion would take upon him to establish any thing certainly yet hee denieth not Matrimonie to be a Sacrament For these are his words if the Lutherans argue that Mariage administred with sacred Ceremonies sacred matter sacred forme and by a sacred Minister as it hath ever beene administred in the Roman Church even from the Apostles time if I say they argue that this is not a Sacrament of the Church then let a Catholique answer confidently let bim defend stoutly let him gainsay securely Vasquez doth not say that Matrimonie is not a Sacrament properly so taken but that S. Austine speaking of Matrimonie doth use the word Sacrament but in a large sense This is true but it is but Vasquez his private and singular opinion not in a point of faith but only in the meaning of one Father in the use of a word and in this his opinion he is contradicted by other Catholique Divines Bellarmine saith that the Sacraments signifie three things De Sacram. in Gen. l. 1. c. 9. one thing past to wit the Passion of Christ another thing present to wit sanctifying grace which they worke in our soules another thing to come to wit eteruall life The signification of these three things is most apparant in Baptisme and the Eucharist but not so apparant in the rest Thus farre the Knight quoteth Bellarmine but leaveth out that which followeth tamen certum est implicitè illa omnia significari but it is certaine that the rest of the Sacraments signifie all these things at least implicitly The Hammer ALthough the Iesuit was very angrie when hee wrote this Paragraph as appeareth by his snarling at every passage almost yet in his discretion hee thought good not to meddle with some things which were too hard for his teeth To Theophylact Fulbert and Paschasius and the last passage out of S. Austine as also to the refutation of the popish arguments for their septenarie number of Sacraments from incongruous and ridiculous congruities hee replieth not a word and three of their prime Schoole-men Durand Vasques and Cajetan hee lets shift for themselves defend them he neither will nor can yet for all this hee puts up as if hee had done wonders in this Paragraph and filleth up the defect of solid answers with bragges and swelling words of vanitie Bullatis vndique nugis pagina turgescit But these bubbles wee shall see will dissolve of themselves in the particular answer to his twentie severall exceptions against the Knights discourse To the first The Iesuit in this Paragraph thinketh that hee discourseth very profoundly for page 201. he saith the Knight is not capable of it whereas his chanel here is so shallow that any child instructed in his Catechisme may wade thorow it Without an infallible rule saith he there can be no certaine beliefe in God An extreame veritie without an unerring Pope no certaine rule of faith an extreame falsitie the Iesait cannot see Christ for the Pope nor the Scripture for the Trent Canons Let him remove them out of the way and if hee have an eye of faith hee may clearly see both and in them an infallible rule of faith and certaine meanes to learne true beliefe in God The occasion of this discourse of the Iesuit was the Knight charging Cardinall Bellarmine for laying a foundation of Atheisme in saying that if we should take away the credit of the Roman Church and Councell of Trent the Christian faith it selfe might bee called in question The charge lieth heavie upon the Cardinall For to disparage the selfe-sufficiencie of the holy Scriptures and suspend our Christian faith upon the Decrees of a late factious conventicle rejected by the greater part of the Christian world is a ready way to overthrow all Divine faith and true religion Yet the Iesuit seeketh to cover the nakednesse of the Cardinall with these fig leaves If
vpon S. Iohn that out of the side of Christ the Sacraments of the Churchissued he would seeme to answer something First he quarrelleth at the quotation saying I doe not thinke you will find in Chemnitius your good friend S. Ambrose and Bede cited Whereunto I answer that though the Knights good friend Chemnitius cite not Ambrose and Bede yet the Iesuits good friend Card. De Sacram. in gen l. 2. c. 27. Amb. l. 10. in Luc. Bed c. 19. Ioh. intelligunt per sanguinem qui è latere effluxit redemption is pretium per aquam baptismum Bellarmine citeth them both his words are Ambrose in his tenth booke upon S. Luke and Bede in his comment upon the 19. of S. Iohn understand by blood which issued out of our Saviours side the price of our redemption by water Baptisme Next the Iesuit endeavoureth to untwist this triple cord by saying that these three Fathers speake of Sacraments issuing out of Christs side but no way restraine the number to two Whereunto I reply that though the word Sacramenta for the number may bee as well said of seven as two Sacraments yet where S. Austine alludeth to the same text of Scripture and falleth upon the same conceite he restraineth the number to two saying there issued out of Christs side water and blood quae sunt Ecclesiae gemina Sacramenta Now I would faine know of the Iesuit where ever hee read gemina to signifie seven or more then two Were the Dioscuri which are commonly knowne by the name of gemini seven or two only to wit Castor and Pollax As for S. Ambrose and Bede though they say not totidem verbis that the two Sacraments of the Church issued out of Christs side as S. Austine doth yet they can bee understood of no more then two Sacraments for there were but two things which issued out of our Saviours side to wit water and blood whereby they understand Baptisme and the Lords Supper Had there issued out of our Saviours side together with water and blood Chrisme or balsamum or had a rib beene taken from thence the Iesuit might have some colour to draw more Sacraments out of it but now sith the Text saith there issued onely two things water and blood and the Fathers say the Sacraments of the Church are thereby meant it is most apparant that by Sacramenta they meant those two only which they there name in expresse words Baptisme and the price of our redemption that is Christs blood in the Eucharist To the seventh The authoritie of S. Ambrose is as a thorne in the Iesuits eye for it cannot but bee a great prejudice to their cause that so learned a Bishop as S. Ambrose writing six bookes professedly of the Sacraments omitteth the Romish five and spendeth his whole discourse upon our two If the Church in his time beleeved or administred seven Sacraments hee could no way be excused of supine negligence for making no mention at all of the greater part of them it were all one as if a man professing to treate of the elements or the parts of the world which are foure or of the Pleiades or the Septentriones or the Planets which are seven should handle but two of that number Bellarmine therefore and after him Flood pluck hard at this thorne but cannot get it out saying that S. Ambrose his intent was to instruct the Catechumeni only as the title of one of the books sheweth For first S. Ambrose hath no booke of that title viz. An instruction to them who are to bee catechized or are beginners in Christianitie The title of that booke is De ijs qui initiantur of those who are initiated or entred into holy mysteries Secondly this is not the title of any of the six bookes de sacramentis alledged by the Knight but of another tractate Thirdly admit that S. Ambrose as S. Austine and Cyrill wrote to the Catechumeni and intended a Catechisme yet they were to name all the Sacraments unto them as all Divines usually doe in their Catechismes because the Sacraments are alwayes handled among the grounds and principles of Christian religion And though the Catechumeni are not presently admitted unto all yet they are to learne what they are that they may bee the better prepared in due time to receive them Fourthly it is evidently untrue which the Iesuit saith that S. Ambrose writeth not to the beleevers of that age but only to some beginners The very front of his booke proves the Iesuit to bee frontlesse For S. Ambrose his first words are I will begin to speake of the Sacraments which wee have received c. In Christiano enim viro prima est fides for the first thing in a Christian man is faith And as hee writeth to all beleevers not beginners only so hee speaketh also of the chiefe Sacraments of the New Testament and not of those only which the catechumeni received as is apparant out of the fourth chapter of the first booke De sacramentis Wherein hee proveth according to the title of that Chapter Quôd sacramenta Christia norum diviniora sint priora quà m Indaeorum That the Sacraments of the Chrìstians are more ancient and more divine then those of the Iewes and hee instanceth especially in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper Lastly the Iesuit in this answer apparantly contradicteth himselfe first saying that S. Ambrose intent in that Worke was only to instruct the catechumeni in those things that were to be done in the time of Baptisme p. 210. and within a few lines after he saith Bud. deasse Veritas nonnunquam invitis erumpit as fallens inter mendacia ab audientibus demuns agnoscitur cum interim loquentes adbuc se habere in potestate putent that he writeth of the Sacraments whereby they were so initiated which are three Baptisme Confirmation and the Eucharist So true is Budaeus his observation That lyes dash one with the other and truth breakes out of the mouth of the lyar ere hee is aware Who ever heard of the Eucharist to bee administred in the time of Baptisme or that the Eucharist was administred at all to the punies or catechumeni whilest they were such certainly if the catecumeni or younger beginners to whom hee saith S. Ambrose wrote were capable of the doctrine of the Eucharist containing in it the highest mysteries of Christianitie they were much more capable of Penance Matrimonie and Extreame Unction which are easie to bee understood by any novice in Christian religion To the eight That it may appeare what was the judgement of S. Austine in this maine point of difference betweene the Reformed and the Roman Church I will weigh what is brought on both sides first what the Iesuit alledgeth for seven and then what the Knight for two S. Austine having written divers Catechisticall treatises in which hee had occasion to name and handle the Sacraments yet no where defineth the number of them to bee seven
Iesuit who holdeth both may by his beliefe merit their holy sacrament of Penance for egregiously abusing Hugo de Sancto Victore and S. Ierome and his reader by making a Sacrament of a metaphor and out of them arguing thus wooddenly against the Knight Hugo hath a particular chapter wherein hee calleth Penance as wee doe with S. Ierome the second boord after shipwracke Ergo Penance is a Sacrament of the new Law doth he not deserve for concluding so absurdly to have the character of his owne sacrament indelebly imprinted upon his flesh To the thirteenth The Knight alledgeth not Bellarmine nor Hugo nor Peter Lombard nor Bonaventure nor Hallensis nor Altisiodorensis nor Suarez himselfe as if they expresly and in direct tearmes denied Extreame Unction to bee a sacrament this they doe not neither as things stood with some of them might doe safely the Roman Church having defined the contrarie Yet so great is the force of truth that what in words they affirme they consequently deny and thus much Suarez ingenuously confesseth some Suar. tom disp 39 sect 2. nonnulli negârunt hoci sacramentum fuisse à Christo institutum ex quo planè sequebatur non esse verum sacramentum saith hee have denied that this Sacrament was instituted by Christ whence it followeth by plaine consequence that it is no true Sacrament Yea but saith Flood if those Schoole-men had lived in this age they would have said that Christ did institute it Whereunto I answer that all Iudgements proceed ex allegatis probatis not allegandis probandis upon things alledged and proved not upon things to be alledged and proved in future times neither is it likely that they would have altered their opinion upon notice of the Trent decision for if the Church of France and divers other Romish Catholiques as they tearme them submit not at this day to all the Decrees of that Councell much lesse may it bee thought that those ancient and acute schoole Divines who bare the greatest sway in their times would have suffered themselves to baffled by the pretence of a pettie Councell charging her canons with nothing but paper-shot every Sacrament of the New Testament is supported with two pillars institution by Christ and a promise of justifying grace annexed to the due receivers thereof set downe in Scripture the former pillar the ancient Schoolemen take from Extreame Unction the later Bellarmine and Cajetan how then can it stand The Iesuit answereth upon a third pillar unwritten tradition But this I have proved before to be a weak and rotten one and to speake the truth it serveth Papists as pons Asinorum did the ancient Logicians to which they fly for shelter when all other helpe faileth them Albeit they bragge much of Scripture yet upon examination of particulars it will appeare that their new Trent Creed consisting of twelve supernumerarie Articles hath no foundation at all in Scripture and therefore they are forced for their support to fly to verbum Dei non scriptum an unwritten word of God which I would faine know of them how they prove to be Gods word Whether by Scripture or by unwritten tradition by Scripture they cannot say for it implies a flat contradiction that verbum non scriptum should be scriptum that unwritten traditions should be found in or founded on Scripture if they say they prove it to bee Gods word by tradition then they prove idem per idem the same thing by it selfe and build their faith upon a sillie sophisme called petitio prÃncipij the begging the maine point in question To the fourteenth In the allegation of Cardinal Bessario the Iesuit chargeth the Knight with ambiguous translation P. 225. and so placing the words that they may have a double sence the one to deceive the simple and the other to excuse himselfe against the objections of the learned and for this he pronounceth a woe against him vae peccatori terraâ— ingredienti duabus vijs Woe to the sinner going on the earth two wayes But the truth is as Pentheus after he was distracted imagined duplices se ostendere Phoebos Oresles apud Euripidem Electram sororem appellat Furiam quòd eam ne fureret in lectlo constringeret that hee saw two Sunnes when yet there was but one in the skie so the Iesuit in a fit of frantick malice imagined the Knight to goe two wayes whereas hee goeth but one and that a faire and streight way for he setteth the Latine words of the Cardinall without any adition or detraction in the margent haec duo sola sacramenta in Evangelijs manifestè tradita legimus and hee translateth them faithfully wee reade that these two Sacraments only were delivered us plainly in Scriptures hee rendereth not the words we reade plainly in Scriptures that there were two only Sacraments delivered unto us which had beene a misplacing of Bessarions words and mis-interpretation of his meaning bu wee reade that these two only were plainly delivered in the Gospell there is no more ambiguitie in the translation then in the originall which though it denieth not that other Sacraments may bee delivered in the Gospell yet it affirmeth that these two only are plainly delivered there and consequently that these two only are de fide matter of faith and upon paine of damnation to be beleeved for as I proved before out of S. Austine and S. Chrysostome all things that concerne faith and manners and are necessarie to salvation are plainly delivered in holy Scriptures To the fifteenth Some Papistsas Flood confesseth denie the foure inferiour Orders to be Sacraments P. 234. and Soto denieth the superiour what a confusion is here in your sacrament of order If the ordination of Bishops be not truly and properly a Sacrament as Dominicus Soto acknowledgeth neither is the ordination of Priests a Sacrament for what can be alledged more for the one then the other and if the ordination of Priests be no sacrament much lesse Deacons or subdeacons or Acolytes or Exorcists Whether there be the same character imprinted in the ordination of Bishops and Priests it is not materiall to our present question for if it be the same then it followeth according to the doctrine of the Schooles that they are one and the selfe-same Sacrament if a diverse character bee imptinted by the one and by the other then are they two distinct Sacraments If they are the same Sacraments then Soto denying the one consequently denieth the other to bee a Sacrament if they are distinct Sacraments then there are eight Sacraments Yea but saith the Iesuit Whither there bee a new character in a Bishop or the same extended is no matter of faith and therefore wee are not to dispute with you of it but keepe you off at the staffes end or rather out of doores when you are once admitted into the Catholique Church wee may admit you to speake of a Schoole-point or else not Wee know well that yee are loath that
integritie of corporall refection and the example of Christ it were more convenient to have the Communion under both kindes the Knight hearkeneth to him but where hee lispeth in the language of Ashdod saying that in consideration of the reverence due to this Sacrament it is ill and inconvenient to communicate in both kindes the Knight had reason to turne a deafe eare to him for it is cosin germane to blasphemie to say that is ill and inconvenient which Christ and his Apostles and the whole Church in all places for more then a thousand yeares practised the Knight might well say to Tapperus in the words of him in the Poet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I will be sober with you but I will not runne madde with you To the twelfth For the statute made in the dayes of that Phoenix of his age King Edward the sixt the meaning is unlesse among the people there bee some that either by a naturall antipathie to wine or other infirmitie cannot receive the Sacraments in both kindes it is ordained that it be delivered to every one in both kindes cessante ferreâ necessitate obtinet haec aurea regula that all receive the whole Sacrament in which the Statute and the articles of Religion published first in the reigne of this blessed Prince fully accord For so wee reade Article the thirtieth both parts of the Lords Sacrament by Christs ordinance and command ought to bee ministred to all Christian people alike To the thirteenth That every article of faith ought to have sufficient proofe out of Scripture is proved by innumerable testimonies of antiquitie produced by Philip Morney in his Preface to his booke De Eucharistia Bilson of Supremacie part the fourth Abbot against Bishop chapter the seventh and Laurentius de disp Theolog Neither doth S. Ierome any way contradict them or us for wee beleeve that the consent of the whole Christian Church is an infallible argument of truth Albeit wee teach that any particular Church as namely the Roman or the French or the Dutch or the Greeke Church may erre yet we denie that the catholique Church universally hath ever erred or can erre in matter of faith necessarie to salvation and further I adde for conclusion that as the words of S. Ierome alledged by the Iesuit make nothing against us so if they bee applied to our present subject they make most strongly against him being propounded after this manner Although the authoritie of holy Scripture were wanting for the Communion in both kindes which is not so yet the consent of the whole world on this side testified by their uniforme practise confessed by Papists themselves ought to have the force of a divine Precept and so there would bee an end not only of this Section as the Iesuit speaketh but of this whole Controversie Concerning Prayer in an unknowne tongue Spectacles Sect. 6. a pag. 259. usque ad 283. THe Knight falsly chargeth the Councell of Trent with approving prayer in the vulgar tongue for though the Councell saith that the Masse containeth great instruction yet it doth not say that it ought to bee in the vulgar tongue nay contrarily it pronounceth an anathema against any whosoever shall say that the Masse ought to bee celebrated in the vulgar tongue It hath beene the generall practise and custome in the Church of God of having the Masse and the publike office in Latine all over the Latine and Westerne Church both in Italie Spaine France Germanie England Africa and all other places and so likewise in Greeke in the Graecian or Easterne Church though it were as large in extent and had as much varietie of languages in it as the Latine Church hath Vniformitie which is fit to be used in such things and unitie of the Catholique Church is excellently declared and also much maintained by this unitie of language in the Church office The use of vulgar tongues in the Masse or Church office would cause not only great confusion but breed an infinite number of errours by many severall translations The use of vulgar language in such things would breed a great contempt of sacred things with prophanenesse and irreligiositie besides the danger of heresie which commeth no way sooner then by misunderstanding of holy Scripture The place of Scripture alledged by the Knight concerning announcing our Lords death is not understood by words but by deeds as is most plaine by the circumstances The text of S. Paul where he asketh how hee that understandeth not the prayers shall say Amen is not of the publike prayers of the Church which no man can doubt of either for the truth or goodnesse and therefore he may confidently say Amen to them but of private prayers made by private and Laye men extempore in an unknowne tongue Haymo requireth not that all that are present at Divine service should understand but only that he that supplieth the place of the idiot or Laye-man in answering for the people should bee so farre able to understand as to answer Amen at the end of every prayer Iustinian the Emperour is ordinarily taxed for taking too much upon him in Ecclesiasticall matters yet all that hee saith may bee well maintained without prejudice to the present practise of the Roman Church for in the Decree alledged by the Knight hee requireth nothing more but that Bishops and Priests should pronounce distinctly and clearely that which according to the custome of the Easterne Church was to bee spoken aloud The Canon law capite quoniam in plerisque requireth only that where divers Nations are mingled that the Bishop of the Citie should substitute one in his roome to celebrate the divine Office and administer the Sacraments according to their ownerites and language for indeed it is a matter of necessitie in administration of some Sacraments to use the vulgar language as in Mariage and Penance but not so of other things Lyra Belithus Gretzer Harding Cassander and the rest of the Authours quoted by the Knight say indeed that in the beginning Prayers were in the vulgar tongue but the reason was because those three holy languages Hebrew Greeke and Latine dedicated on the crosse of Christ were then most vulgar none of them speake a word of any Precept There is no precept in the Scripture commanding prayers in a knowne tongue or forbidding in an unknowne whose authority or example can you bring for your selfe in this matter name him if you can It was more needfull in the Primitive Church that the people should understand because they were to answer the Priest which now is not so as Bellarmine noteth because that belongs only to the Clarke That the Knight contradicteth himselfe in one place saying That the alteration of the Church service was occasioned by certaine Shepheards who in the dayes of Honorius having learned the words of Consecration by heart pronounced them over their Bread and Wine in the fields and thereby Transubstantiated them into flesh and bloud and for this prophane abuse were strucken
Cor. 14. chapter through the whole out of which wee thus argue if it be better in the Church to speake five words with understanding that by our voyce wee may teach others then a thousand words in an unknowne tongue then certainly the publike Service of the Church ought to be in a knowne tongue but it is better in the Church to speake five words with understanding to instruct others thereby then a thousand words in an unknowne tongue v. 19. Therefore the publike Service of the Church ought to bee in a knowne tongue If all things ought to be done in the Church to edification then ought the publike Service to bee in a knowne tongue for hee that speaketh in an unknowne tongue edifieth not v. 5. but in the Church all things ought to bee done to edification v. 26. Ergo the publike Service ought to bee in a knowne tongue If in the prayers of the Church the people are to joyne with the Priest and testifie their consent with him by saying Amen to his prayers and giving of thankes then ought the publike Service to be in a knowne tongue But in the prayers of the Church the people ought to joyne with the Priest and testifie their consent by saying Amen to his prayers and giving of thankes Ergo the publike Service ought to bee in a knowne tongue If in the Church prayers wee ought to pray and sing with understanding then ought Church service to bee in a knowne tongue for if wee pray in an unknowne tongue our spirit prayeth but our understanding is unfruitfull v. 14. But in the prayers of the Church wee ought to pray and sing with understanding v. 15. Ergo the publike Service ought to bee in a knowne tongue Neither can the Iesuit shift off these passages with a wish saying that S. Paul indeed adviseth and wisheth that when any prayer is made in an unknowne tongue there should bee some to interpret but that hee requireth no such thing to bee observed as a divine precept for v. 37. hee addeth if any man thinke himselfe a prophet or spirituall let him know that the things which I write unto you are the commandements of God To conclude when S. Iames commandeth that whosoever prayeth Iames 1.6 aske in faith nothing doubting but that hee shall receive what he asketh hee necessarily implieth that wee ought to pray to God in a knowne tongue For how can hee beleeve that hee shall receive what he prayeth for if he knoweth not what himselfe saith in his prayers or what an other prayeth for him to whose prayers hee saith Amen To the Iesuits second quaere where prayer in an unknowne knowne tongue is forbidden I answer Esay 29.13 and Marke the 7.10 Well Esay prophesied of you hypocrites this people honoureth mee with their lips but their heart is farre from mee and 1 Cor. 14. where the Apostle professedly disputeth against speaking in the Church in an unknowne tongue But the Iesuit excepteth that S. Paul in that chapter condemneth not simply prayers in an unknowne tongue though hee preferreth prophecie By which his ignorant exception it should seeme that hee read that chapter in an unknowne tongue for hee speaketh so wide from the matter as if hee understood never a word in it It is true that the Apostle in that chapter comparing the gift of tongues and prophecie together condemneth neither of them but preferreth the gift of prophecie and in prosecution of the comparison falleth upon those who used the gift of tongues in publike prayers in the Church and hee expresly condemneth that practise of them because they that prayed in such sort uttering words that were not understood spake not to men because no man understood them v. 2. spake into the ayre v. 5. edified not by those prayers v. 12.17 because others could not joyne with them in their prayers nor say Amen to their thankes v. 15. Now if the Apostle reproved the use of the miraculous gift of tongues which redounded so much to the honour of God in the Church without an interpreter v. 28. saying if there bee no interpreter let them keepe silence in the Church How much more may wee conceive would he have sorbidden the use of an unknowne tongue acquired by humane industrie To his third quaere what authoritie we can bring for our selves or example I answer that the Knight hath brought the authoritie and example of the catholique Christian Church for 700. yeares at the least and because he calleth upō us to name any Father who teacheth as we do that the service of the Church ought to bee in a knowne tongue Exposit in psal 18. vult ut quod conamus intelligamus ac humana ratione non quasi avium voce canamus nam psittaci corvi picae hujusmodi volucres saepè abhominibus docentur sonate quod nesciunt sciunter autem cantare naturae hominis divina bonitate concessum est I name S. Chrysostome who in his Commentarie upon the 14. chapter of the first to the Corinthians saith that the Apostle teacheth that we ought to speak with our tongues and withall to minde what is spoken that wee may understand it and S. Austine willeth that wee understand what wee sing like men indued with reason and not chatter like birds for ousels parrats crowes pies and such other birds are often taught by men to sound out that which they know not but to know what they sing or sing with knowledge and understanding is by Gods will peculiarly given unto man I name also Iustine Martyre and S. Basil and many other ancient Doctours whose testimonies are plentifully alledged by Bishop Iewell Article the third and Bilson of Supremacie part the fourth and not yet answered by any Papist to my knowledge To the thirteenth The observation of Cardinall Bellarmine concerning the different custome of the ancient Church and the present Roman maketh rather against the Iesuits then for them For who will not attribute more to the uniforme practise of the primitive Church then to the heteroclyte practise of later Churches assuredly the practise of the primitive Church wherein the people answered the Priests and not the Clarke only is most agreeable to the doctrine of S. Paul and consonant to reason For publike prayers were instituted especially for three ends first for the most solemne worship of God when thousands of hands are at once lifted up to him and as many tongues confesse his name secondly for the stirring up of greater devotion when many hundreds praying and blessing and singing together like so many coales on the same hearth kindle one the other and increase the flame Thirdly for more prevalencie with God when we offer violence as it were to heaven and send up our united devotions like a vollie of shotte to batter the walls of it They who pray in a tongue which the people understand not and therefore cannot joyne with them in their prayer faile of all these ends Yet to sodder
824. a Synod was held at Paris under Ludovicus Pius where the foresaid Councell of Nice was likewise condemned In the ninth age Ionas Aurelian de cultu imag l. 1. quae picturae non ad adorandum sed solummodò teste beato Gregorio ad instruendas nescientium mentes in ecclesijs sunt antiquit us fieri permissae Agob l. de â—ict Imagin rectè nimirum ad ejusmodievacuandam superstitionem ab orthodoxis fratribus definitum est picturas in ecclesia fieri non debere ne quod adoratur in parietibus depirgatur Rhemig in psal 96. non sun sunt adoranda simulacra nec enim Angelus adorandus est Ansel gloss interlin in Deut. c. 4. formam non vidistis ne scilicet volens imitari sculpendo faceres idolum tibi Vid Symph Cathol p. 822. Ann. lal 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ionas Bishop of Orleans wrote against Claudius Bishop of Turin concerning images wherein he holdeth that the images of Saints are not to bee worshipped though they may be set up in Churches for ornament and to bring into the mind of simple people the storie of the Bible And Agobardus Bishop of Lions telleth us that the orthodox Fathers for the avoiding of superstition did carefully provide that no pictures should bee set up in Churches Rhemigius boldly professeth that neither images nor Angels are to bee worshipped In the tenth age Anselmus Laudunensis the authour of the interlineare glosse upon the Bible composed of the Fathers writings expoundeth that text of Deuteronomie Yee saw no manner of similitude in this sort lest that willing to resemble that similitude by engraving thou shouldst set up an idoll to thy selfe In the eleventh age Nicetas Croniates a Greeke historian reporteth in the life and reigne of Isaac Angelus one of the Easterne Emperours that when Frederick Emperour of the West made an expedition into Palestine the Armenians did gladly receive the Almaines because among the Almaines and Armenians the worshipping of images was forbidden alike In the twelfth age Annal. p. 1. Hist eccl l. 18. c. 53. imagines patris spiritus sancti effigiant quod est pe rabsur dum Durand in 3. sentent dist 9. q. 2. facere imagines ad repraesentandum deuÌ„ patrem et spirituÌ„ spirituÌ„ sanctuÌ„ aut venerari ej us imagines fatuuÌ„ est unde Damascenus dicit quod insipientiae summae impietatis est figurare quod est divinuÌ„ AveÌ„t hist Bavar l. 7. In Deut. 4. in imaginibus signantibus Deum unde scilicot trinitatem duo inconvenientia sequi possunt primuÌ„ idololatriane etiam imago colatur secundum error haeresis scilicet attribuere Deo illam corporeitatem essentiâ—lem differentiam gualeÌ„ tres illas figuras figurare coÌ„spicimus Roger Hoveden an English Historian condemneth the worship of images for speaking of the Synodall Epistle written by the Fathers of the second Nicene Councell wherein Image worship was established hee addeth quod omninò ecclesia Dei execratur which the Church of God altogether abhorreth In the thirteenth age Nicephorus writing of the Iacobites saith that they made images of the Father and the holy Spirit which saith he is most absurd Durand stoutly maintaineth that it is utterly unlawfull to picture or represent the Trinitie or God otherwise then as in Christ hee tooke our flesh and Pope Iohn the 22. calleth certaine men that dwelt in Bohemia and Austria Anthropomorphitas that is heretiques ascribing an humane shape to God because they painted the Trinitie in forme of an old man with a young man and a Dove In the fourteenth age Abulensis is utterly against all painting of the Trinitie because from thence two inconveniences may follow first the perill of idolatrie in case the image it selfe should come to bee worshipped secondly errour and heresie by ascribing to God such bodily shapes and formes as the Trinitie is usually pictured withall And Gerson commenting upon the first Commandement speaketh fully in the Protestant language all images are forbid to bee made to adore or worship them thou shalt not adore nor worship them that is thou shalt not adore them with any bodily reverence as bowing or kneeling to them Gerson compend theolog de pri praecep ad adorandum colendum prohibentur imagines fieri thou shalt not worship them with any devotion of mind But to returne back to Philo whose testimonie the Iesuit would faine put off by a double answer first that the Iewes had not in their Temple any picture of God because hee cannot be painted next that they had no picture of Saints because there was none as yet might have the honour to have their pictures in the Temple being not yet admitted themselves into the Temple of God The first of these answers the better it is the worse it is for himselfe the stronger it is the more it maketh against the practise of his owne Church in which wee see the Trinitie familiarly painted In his second answer hee palliateth idolatrie by impietie and that hee may have some colour to set up images of new Saints in Churches upon earth hee excludeth all the old Saints before Christ out of the heavenly temple of God Not to digresse here to a dispute about their imaginary Limbus I would faine know of the Iesuit where did Enoch walke with God after hee was translated that hee should not see death to what place was Elias carried in a fierie chariot not into heaven When Dives soule was dragd by Divels into hell was not Lazarus soule carried by Angels into heaven the text saith Luk. 16.22 hee was carried into Abrahams bosome and where is that S. Austine will informe you even where the soule of his friend saint Nebridius and other blessed Doctours and confessours now live whatsoever place saith hee is meant by the bosome of Abraham ibi vivit Nebridius meus quis enim alius locus tam piae animae August Confess l. 9. c. 3. there my Nebridius liveth for what other place were meete for so godly a soule To the sixt There is nothing so easie as for a man with Antipho to pursue his owne fancie or shadow to set up a man of straw and push him downe with a festraw the Knight doth not thus argue the Iewes hate the Image and crosse of Christ therefore Christians ought so to doe for by the like reason it will follow that wee should condemne the very Gospell yea and hate Christ himselfe because the Iewes doe so that is not his argument but the Iesuits phantasme The Knights argument standeth thus if of his enthymem we make a Syllogisme None may or ought to give a scandall to Iew or Gentile But by setting up images or crucifixes in Temples the Iewes are so scandalized that even those among them who other wayes might be enclined to embrace the Christian faith are made utterly averse from it because they cannot perswade themselves that it can bee the true religion which maintaineth
for his impudencie and ignorance two Sorbon Doctours Aurelius and Lallier have disciplined him to the purpose and I will bee 10th saevire in plagas vulnera Yea but some of these mens Workes are marked in the Roman Index saith the Iesuit they are so indeed to the eternall prayse of their ingenuity and to the everlasting infamie of the Romish Inquisitors crueltie who so deale with the witnesses of truth as Pope Sergius did with Formosus his predecessor after his death they mangle and deface them cutting off their thumbes and fingers wherewith they testified and signed the truth in their writings To the sixteenth In this Paragraph the Iesuit is totus in fermento it wonderfully transporteth him and putteth him in a cold sweat that the Knight should say out of Chemnitius that the second Synod of Nice in which Image-worship was established was condemned in the Councell of Frankford held in the yeare of our Lord 794. P. 308. The Magdeburgians saith hee and other your owne Authours affirme that that very Councell of Frankford did say an Anathema to all such as deface images is not this then abominable falshood in your friend Chemnitius to cite nay forge it against images and in you to follow him in it ne Saevi magne Sacerdos let not the Iesuit lay about him so furiously lest peradventure hee lend a blow to his best friends for besides other Historians of good note Hincmarus Archbishop of Rhemes P. 306. Hincma Rhem. advers Hincma Laudunens c. 20. Graecorum pseudo-Synodus destructa est penitùs abdicata Ado. Vien in cron aetat 6. pseudo-synodus quam septimam Graeci appellant pro imaginibus adorandis abdicata penitùs Idem habet Regino ad ann 794. Bellarmine lib. de Concil c. 7. Concilium Francofordiense reprobatur quantum ad alteram partem in qua exerrore damnatur septima Synodus whom himselfe calleth a Catholique indeed nay and Cardinall Bellarmine himselfe also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith as much as Chemnitius or the Knight to wit that the Councell of Nice was condemned in the Councell of Frankford neither doth the Anathema pronounced in that councell against such as deface images fall upon us who fight not against images as the Iconomachi did but against image-worship as that Councell of Frankford doth To the seventeenth The words of Poly dore Virgill are these Deinvent l. 6 c. 13. de simulacrorum cultu jam agamus quem non modò nostrae rellgionis expertes sed teste Hieronymo omnes ferèveteres sancti patres damnabant oh metum idololatriae Let us now speake of the Worship of images which not only those which were ignorant of our religion but as Saint Ierome testifieth almost all the ancient holy Fathers condemned for feare of idolatrie To this allegation the Iesuit saith that Polydore is to be understood of the Fathers of the Old Testament only Although Polydore hath not the word Old Testament but ancient Fathers and Saints which style the Church of Rome never attributed to any before Christ But bee it so let us take what hee granteth wee have then the testimonie of the true Church before Christs Incarnation against image-worship and this is advantage enough unlesse the Iesuit could confront their judgement by Christ and his Apostles or some of the Fathers of the New Testament Yet what if Polydore Virgill in that place nameth some of the Fathers in the New Testament Divus quoque Gregorius Serenum episcopum Marsiliensem reprehendu quòd imagines fregisset laudat quòd coli inhibuisset will not that stoppe the Iesuits mouth reade then a little further in Polydore in the same chapter courteous Reader and thou shalt meete with these words Saint Gregorie also reproveth Serenus the Bishop of Marsellis for breaking downe images and yet commendeth him in that hee forbad the worship of them To the eighteenth Peresius saith that there can bee no sound proofe brought either out of Scripture or tradition of the Church or common consent of Fathers or determination of a generall Councell or any other effectuall reason to perswade a man that the image of Christ L. de tradit nullum quod ego viderim afferunt validum fundamentum neque scripturas neque traditionent ecclesiae neque communem consensum sanctorum neque concilij generalis determinationem aliquam nec etiam rationem quâ hoc efficaciter suaderi posset scilicet imagines Christi sanctorum adorari debere eadem adoratione quâ res quae repraesent antur P. 242. and the Saints are to bee worshipped with the same adoration that the samplers are Is this nothing against you then Aquinas and in a manner all the Schoole-men Ludovicus Paramo Bernardus Pind Franciscus Petigianis Petrus de Cabrera Azotius Lamas Rubio Bustus quoted by the Bishop of Ely in his reply to Fisher with divers others reckoned up by Bellarmine l. 2. de imag c. 20. were no Papists For all the above-mentioned hold that opinion for Catholique which Peresius condemneth To the Nineteenth The more wee looke into Agobardus the greater reason wee have to make account of him for the first hee alledgeth the Councell of Eliberis against setting up of images in Churches next hee affirmeth that the ancients had pictures of Saints painted or carved ad recordandum non ad colendum to remember the Saints by them not to worship them Lastly hee averreth that there is no example in all the Scriptures or Fathers for adoration of images and what doth or can any Protestant say more against the doctrine of the Roman Church in this point then this Agobardus doth whom this Iesuit canonizeth for a saint neither can he put him off by saying Hic author cautè legendus est quoniam laborat eodem errore quo Agobardus reliqui ejus aetatis Galli qui negabant sacris imaginibus ullum deberi cultum religiosum that hee speaketh against Idoll-worship or some abuse of Images which crept in in his time for Bellarmine who better studied Agobardus then this Iesuit in his booke of Ecclesiasticall Writers ad annum 820. in his censure of Ionas Bishop of Orleans saith this Authour is to bee read with caution because hee was infected with the same opinion that Agobardus and other French Bishops of that age were who denie any religious worship to bee due to images To the twentieth Sententias loquitur Carnifex this is the first essay wee heard from this Iesuit but nothing to the purpose for wee grant that things that are good in themselves and of a necessarie and profitable use are not to bee taken away for the abuse but wee denie that Images in Churches are of that nature neither is his law-Axiome universally true Vtile per inutile non vitiatur that which is profitable is not corrupted or made bad by that which is unprofitable For the brazen Serpent in the Wildernesse was for a time utilis profitable curing them that had beene stung by the
ad hoc quod fructus seu intensio merent is redundet in alterum fic enim fructus metiti passionis Christi in nos redundat ex ejus epressâ intentione quod autem intentio quorumcunque sanctorum fuerit fructum passionum suarum in nos transferre nulla historia docet Aquin. sum part 3. q. 48. art 2. passiones sanctorum proficiunt ecclesiae non quidem per modum redemtionis sed per modum exempli and therefore resolveth the quite contrarie the Sufferings of Saints profit the Church not by way of Redemption but by way of Example To the Third The instance is not to the purpose for the Corinthian whose punishment Saint Paul released was alive our question is of Indulgences releasing soules after death Secondly the incestuous Corinthian was excommunicated and thereby excluded for the time from the Communion of Saints our question is of those that died reconciled to the Church in the state of grace Whether they by the Popes Indulgence may receive ought out of the treasurie of Saints sufferings to purchase their freedome from Purgatorie or at least mittigation of their paines there Thirdly the Indulgence Saint Paul granted the Corinthian was the releasing the sentence of Excommunication not abating flames of Purgatorie Fourthly Saint Paul condescended more willingly to grant that excommunicate Corinthian his absolution for the earnest prayers and intreatie of some of his neighbours and friends hee did not impute the sufferings or merits of his friends unto him and in that consideration absolved him These things therefore agree as well as Harpe and Harrow to absolve the living from sentence of Excommunication at the suit or request of persons that have well deserved of the Church or have a speciall interest in our love and to release the dead out of Purgatorie by imputing the surplussage of another mans merits and satisfactions unto him To the fourth The Iesuit might have learned of Dr. Francis White in his reply to Fisher the Iesuit from whom hee borrow'd this objection an Answer thereunto or if hee thought much to learne of him hee might have beene beholding to his owne Pamelius so farre as to informe him that the Indulgences which Tertullian impugned were not such as wee treate of but the same whereof Saint Cyprian speaketh Ep. 10.11.12 to wit a relaxation of canonicall censures and penance to adulterers and other notorious sinners upon the request of martyrs being in prison and yet alive Now it seemed to this Father to be unjust and unfitting both that the Martyrs in such cases should be intreaters and that the Church should grant absolution to such persons or mitigate the censures most iustly imposed upon them Whether Tertullian in this were in the right or not it makes nothing for the Iesuit or against us for he speaketh of living Martyrs and not dead of forgiving the crime it selfe not only the temporall punishment and that in this life not in Purgatory As this is one of the most impertinent allegations in his booke so he handles it as strangely and absurdly for first he discrediteth and disableth his witnesse by branding him with the note of an Heretique and then he produceth him To the fift What rope of sands hath the Iesuit here twisted first he can never prove that any man can fully satisfie for the least finne committed against the infinite maiesty of God much lesse by any penance he can endure though never so long satisfie over and above as he speaketh Secondly the continuance of his penance if it bee done in true humility and sincerity shall not be without fruit to himselfe for it shall be a meanes to mortifie his fleshly lusts and prevent future sins and through faith in Christ to obtaine a greater reward in heaven Thirdly had the Saints any such surplussage of merits and were there nothing allowed to themselves for it here or hereafter yet could not these their merits be communicated to others for their behoofe because God hath set it downe in his law expressely Ezek. 18.20 that as the sin of the sinner so the righteousnesse of the righteous shall be upon himselfe To the Iesuits quaere therefore Why may not the over-plus of their sufferings lie in deposito as money in a treasurie for the benefit of others I answer briefly because there is no such money nor such treasurie nor order from the master of the house to lay up such supposed money in such an imaginary treasury as it were in a Banke for the benefit of others Doe we say this onely doe not the Scriptures and the Fathers say the same Iob 9.3 Doth not Iob demaund how should man be just with God if he contend with him he cannot answer him one for a thousand Doth not David Psal 19.12 Who knoweth how oft he off endeth Pro. 20.9 Esay 64.6 Iames 3.2 Doth not Solomon Who can say I have made my heart cleane I am pure from my sinne Doth not Esay ingenuously confesse Bas l. de penit non Angeli sumus sed homines et cadimus et resurgimus idque saepius eâdem hora. Ambros apol David c. 2. unusquisque nostruÌ„ per singulas horas quam multa delinquit Bernard de quadrup Debit quis amplius grunniet dicens nâ—mium laboramus nimium jejunamus nimium vigilamus cum nec millessime nec minime parti debitorum suorum quis valeat respondere Serm. de virgin Stulta petitio vix justus salvabitur vix Sanctis justitiae suae oleum sufficet ad salutem quantò minus sibi proximis We are all as an uncleane thing and all our righteousnesse is as filthy ragges and St. Iames in many things we offend all and after him St. Basil We are not Angels but mon we fall and rise againe and that often times in one and the selfe-same houre And Ambrose Every one of us how often doe we sinne every houre And most fully of all St. Bernard Who dare gruntle from henceforth saying we labour too much we fast too much wee watch too much seeing that a man cannot answer the thousandth nay not the least part of his debt And againe commenting upon those words 25. of Matth. and the 8. Give us of your oyle a foolish petition the righteous shall scarce be saved the oyle of their owne righteousnesse hardly sufficeth the Saints to salvation how much lesse will it serve themselves and their neighbours To the sixth The reason is not alike for Indulgences for the living are the releasing of Ecclesiasticall censures inflicted upon their persons which undoubtedly the Bishops have power to mittigate upon the submission of the party whereof they can take notice which can have no place in the soules of the deceased as the Church hath no power to enjoyne them penance for their misdemeanour so neither to take it off for as the Iesuit himselfe confesseth the Pope is no superiour in respect of the soules in Purgatory nor are they under his power
etiam patres Ambrosius Hilarius c. minime loquuntur de indulgentiis Prierias cont Luth. de Indul. Indulgentiae authoritate scripturae non intuere nobis sed authoritate ecclesiae Romanorum Pontificum Major in 4. sent dist 2. q. 2. Difficile est modum indulgentiarum fundare authenticè in scripturâ sacrâ Roffensis artic 18. cont Luther Quamdiù nulla fuerat de purgatoria cura nemo quesivit indulgentias nam ex illo pendet omnis indulgentiarum estimatio ceperunt igitur indulgentiae postquam ad purgatorii cruciatus aliquandiù trepidatum erat The Scriptures speak not expressely of Indulgences neither the Fathers Austine Hilarie Ambrose Jerome c. Sylvester Prierias affirmeth that Pardons have not beene knowne to us by the authority of Scriptures but by the authority of the Church of Rome and the Popes Fisher Bishop of Rochester confesseth that of Purgatorie there is little or no mention amongst the ancient Fathers and that as long as Purgatory was not cared for there was no man sought for Pardons sith Purgatorie therefore hath beene so lately knowne and received of the whole Church who can now wonder concerning Indulgences And here Master Flood is at a stand his Flumen is turned into Stagnum for having made offer to answer Durand and finding that his answer would not hold his heart failed him and hee durst not venture to shape any answer at all to the Authours last mentioned namely Alfonsus a Castro Alfon. de verbo Indulg Harum usus in ecclesiâ videtur serò receptus de Transubst antiatime rara in antiquis mentio de purgatorio fere nulla quid ergo mirum si ad hunc modum contigeret de indalgentiis ut apud priscos nulla sir mentio Antonin part 1. tit 10. de indulgentiis nihil expressè habemus in sacrâ scripturà aut etiam patrum scriptis Cajet opus 15. 1. Nulla scriptura sacra nulla priscorum doctorum grecorum aut latinorum authoritas indulgentiarum ortum ad nostram deduxit notitiam Bellor de indul l. 1. c. 17. Neque mirum videri debet si authores antiquiores non habemus qui harum mentiorum faciunt whose words are There is nothing in Scripture lesse opened or wherof the ancient Fathers have lesse written than of Indulgences and it seemeth the use of them came but lately into the Church there is seldome any mention of Transubstantiation among the Ancients almost none of Purgatorie What marvell then if it so fall out with Indulgences that there should be no mention of them by the Ancients Antoninus There is not any expresse testimonie for proofe of Indulgences either in Scriptures or in the writings of the ancient Fathers Cajetan There is no authoritie of Scriptures or ancient Fathers Greeke or Latin that bringeth the originall of Indulgences to our knowledge Bellarmine It is not to be wondered if wee have not many ancient Authours which make mention of Indulgences for many things are reâ—â—â—ned in the Church onely by use and custome without writing See how the Romanists second one the other Bellarmine saith That not many ancient Authours make mention of Indulgences Cajetan and Antoninus say Not any Durand saith that The Scriptures speake not expresly of them Prierias saith That they speake not at all of them To the tenth The Indulgences those Fathers and Councells speake of have no more affinitie with the Pardon 's the Pope selleth now adaies than the Rivers of Paradise have with Styx or Avernos or Simon Peter with Simon Magus or Phillip the Apostle with Phillip King of Macedon as I shewed before To the eleventh The Iesuit hath neither proved the practise of the Catholike Church nor of the Romane time out of mind for Indulgences but onely practises of later times since manifold abuses crept into the Roman Church As for his negative Argument to wit that It is a strong evidence of consent for Indulgences because none is found to have spoken against them unlesse hee otherwise qualifie it it will no more prove Purgatorie or the lawfull use of Indulgences than it will prove there is a Common-wealth in Eutopia or Cities or Countries in the Moone or many worlds because peradventure none is found to have spoken or written against them And for the Waldenses that they were the first impugners of Indulgences is said by the Iesuit but not proved much lesse that these Waldenses were known Heretikes For they were farre from heresie by the confession of their greatest adversarie the Inquisitor Rainerius Cont. Wald. cap. 4. They live saith hee justly before men and believe all things well concerning God and all the Articles contained in the Creed Solummodo Romanam Ecclesiam blasphemant Clerum onely they speake evill of the Romane Church and Clergie To the twelfth It was happy for Durand that hee lived before the Inquisition and Index Expurgatorius Durand in 4. sent dist 2. q. 3. Quod dictuÌ„ est Petro. Mat. 16. tibi dabo claves c. intelligitur de potestate ei data in foro poenitentiae de collatione autem indulgentiarum non est quomodò debeat intelligi sancti enim Ambrosius Hilarius Augustinus Hieronimus minime loquntur de indulgentiis For he argueth so strongly against Indulgences saying that Little can be spoken of any certainty concerning them because the Scripture speaketh not expressely of them for what is spoken Matthew the 16. to Peter I will give thee the Keyes and whatsoever thou bindest on earth shall be bound in heaven is understood of the power given him in the penitentiall Court and cannot be understood of the bestowing of Indulgences for the holy Fathers Ambrose Hilarie Augustine Jerome speake not at all of Indulgences that his writings if not his person would have beene purged by fire if hee had lived in these times yet true it is that having argued strongly against Indulgences and the Church Treasurie so farre as it consisteth of the merit of Saints hee bethought himselfe and pro formâ alleageth to the contrarie the Custome and Doctrine of the Church meaning the Romane Church whose lash hee feared if hee should not have given backe that by Whole-sale which hee had taken away from her by Re-tale It s true also that hee mentions Indulgences at the stations of Rome in the dayes of Saint Gregory but let it be noted that Gregory is without the compasse of the Primitive times and that hee was interested in the cause for Purgatorie fiers began to singe men in his time and thereupon Indulgences to be in request which afterwards proved a Staple commoditie to the See of Rome Lastly Mart. Epig. de Lab. Non es crede mihi bonus quid ergo ut verum loquar optimus malorum Pisones Senecasque Memmiosque et Crispos mihi redde sed priores fies protinus ultimus bonorum as Martial writeth of Labulla it may be truly said of this Gregory that hee was the worst of the good and best of
the purpose that that Councell seemed to be an assembly not of Bishops but of Hobgoblins not of men but of Images moved like the statues of Daedalus by the sinewes of others What the Iesuit addeth of night owles not daring to appeare in the splendour of that Councell hath no colour of truth For it is no newes for owles to appeare at popish Councells At a Councell held at Rome by Pope Heldebrand Fascic rerum expetend sugiend Ortwhinus Gratius writeth there appeared an huge great Owle which could not be frayed away but scared all the Bishops As for Protestants whom this Blacke-bird of Antichrist termeth night Owles if they had flocked to that Councell they had shewed themselves not Owles by appearing in that twi-light at Trent but very Wood-cocks to trust any security offerd them by those who after publike faith given to Iohn Huz and Ierome of Prage notwithstanding the safe conduct of Sigismond the Emperour for their going to and comming from the Councell at Constance most cruelly burned them at a stake to ashes To the seventeenth Divine faith must be grounded upon divine authority and that cannot be the Catholike faith which wanteth consent of Fathers As for those Fathers whose authority Bellarmine draweth ob torto collo to testifie for unwritten traditions de verbo Dei lib. 4. cap. 7. the Iesuit may see them fully answered in Iunius Whitaker Daniel Chamierus and Dr. Davenant Bishop of Sarum and a farre greater number of Fathers alleaged to the contrary by Robert Abbot in his answer to William Bishop cap. 7. Phillip Morney in his preface to his booke de sacrâ Eucharistiâ and Iacobus Laurentius in his singular tractate de Disputationibus and others To the eighteenth The assistance of the Holy ghost was more speciall in the times of the Apostles then in latter ages they could not erre in their writings others might yet we charge not the Catholike Church of Christ in any age with any fundamentall errour though we may the Roman Tertullian his rule may have still place and as well in one age as another if it be rightly taken and not misconstrued and misapplied for if it be taken generally that whatsoever is the same amongst many is no errour but tradition it is it selfe a great errour For the same opinion concerning the inequality of the Father and the Sonne is found amongst many to wit the Arrian Churches the same doctrine concerning the procession of the Sonne from the Father onely is found amongst many namely all the Greeke Churches at this day the same practise of administring the Eucharist to children was found amongst many namely all the Churches of Affrica in St. Austines time yea and in all Churches subject to the Bishop of Rome for many ages as Maldonat the Iesuit confesseth yet the above named Positions and this latter practise are confessed on all sides to be erroneous But Tertullian by many understandeth not the practise of some particular Churches Tertul. de prescrip Age nunc omnes ecclesiae erraverint verisimile est ut tot et tante in unam fidem erraverint much lesse of factious persons of one Sect but the generall and uniforme doctrine and practise of the whole Church as his words in the same Chapter quoted by the Iesuit declare Goe too now admit that all Churches have erred is it likely so many so great Churches should erringly conspire in one faith To the nineteenth We derogate nothing from any generall custome of the Catholike Church let the Iesuit produce out of good Authors any such custome for Indulgences to redeeme soules out of Purgatory flames by Papall Indulgences and this controversie will soone be at an end howsoever let me tell the Iesuit the way that this text of St. Paul is impertinently alleaged to prove this or any other article of the Trent faith For St. Paul in this place speaketh not of any Article of faith nor matter of manners necessary to salvation but of habits gestures fashions and indifferent rites in matter of which nature there is no question at all but that the custome of the Churches of God ought to sway as is abundantly proved by Dr. Andrewes late Bishop of Winchester in his printed Sermon upon that text To the twentieth Disputabamus de alliis respondet Iesuita de cepis we dispute of Indulgences the Iesuit answereth of Traditions in matter of Faith These are very distinct questions and so handled by all that deale Work-man-like in points of difference betweene the Reformed and the Romane Churches but the Jesuits common place of Indulgences was drawne drie and therefore hee setteth his cocke of Traditions on running which yeeldeth nothing but muddy water What though Faith be ancienter than Scriptures the Argument is inconsequent Ergo Scripture is not now the perfect rule of Faith Faith neither is nor can be more ancient than the Word of God upon which it is built this Word of God is now written and since the consigning and confirming the whole Canon of the written Word by Saint Iohn in the Apocalypse is become the perfect and as the Schooles speaketh the adequate rule of Faith It is true Christ and his Apostles first taught the Church by word of mouth Lib. 3. advers heres cap. 1. Non enim per alios dispositionem salutis nostrae cognovimus quam per eos per quos Evangelium pervenit ad nos quod quidem tunc praeconiaverunt postea per dei voluntatem in scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostrae futuram but afterwards that which they preached was by the commandment of God committed to writing to be the foundation and pillar of Faith as Irenaus testifieth in expresse words To the twentie one If the Iesuit could prove as undoubtedly any words of the Apostles that are not set downe in Scriptures to be their owne words as wee can prove the writings we have to be theirs wee would yeeld no lesse credit to them then to these but that neither can hee nor so much as undertaketh to doe And whereas he further faith that the credit of the Scripture depends upon Tradition unlesse hee qualifie the speech some way it is not onely erroneous but also blasphemous for it is all one as if hee should say that man gives credit and authority to God as Tertullian jeareth the Heathen In Apolloget not receiving Christ for God because the Romane Senate would not give their consent and approbation to make him one Iam homo deo propitius esse debet or that the credit and authority of Gods Word dependeth upon mans receiving it Whereas in truth Gods Word is not therefore of divine and infallible authoritie because the Church delivereth it to be so but on the contrary the Church delivereth it to be so because in it selfe it is so and the Church should erre damnably if shee should otherwise conceive of these inspired Writings then as of the undoubted Oracles of God
to which we owe absolute consent and beliefe Vid. August supr cit without any question or contradiction To the two and twentieth Saint Austine defends no point of Faith against Heretikes either onely or chiefly by the Tradition and practise of the Catholike Church but either onely or chiefly by the Scriptures For example in his booke of Baptisme against the Donatists after hee had debated the point by Scriptures hee mentioneth the custome of the Church and relateth Stephanus his proceeding against such as went about to overthrow the ancient custome of the Catholike Church in that point But hee no where grounds his Doctrine upon that custome though hee doth well approve of it as wee doe Againe in his booke against Maximinus and his 174 Epist to Pascentius hee confirmeth the faith of the Trinity by the written Word against those Heretikes his words Ep. 175 Haec siplacet audire quemadmodum è Scripturis sacris asserantur to the same Pascentius are Here thou maist heare if thou wilt how these points of our Faith are maintained by Scripture So farre is hee from founding those or any other points of faith only or chiefly upon unwritten Traditions What the Iesuit alleageth out of his tenth booke De Genes ad literam cap. 23. Consuetudo matris Ecclesiae in baptizandis parvulis nequaquam spernendus est neque ullo modo superflua deputanda no whit advantageth his cause for there Saint Austine saith no more but The custome of the Church in baptizing Infants is no way to be despised or to be accounted superfluous Wee all say the same and condemne the Pelagians of old and Anabaptists of late who deny Baptisme to be administred to children or any way derogate from the necessitie of that Sacrament The Iesuit saith hee will say nothing of Prayer for the dead yet hee quoteth Saint Austine de curâ pro mortuis as if in that booke hee taught Prayer for the dead and grounded it upon unwritten Tradition Whereas in that booke hee neither maintaineth Prayer for the dead nor maketh mention of any unwritten Tradition for it but on the contrarie solidly out of Scriptures proveth Esaias Propheta dicit Abraham nos nescivit et Israel non cognovit nos si tanti patriarchae quid erga populum ex his procreatur ageretur ignoraverunt quomodo mortui vivorum rebus atque actibus cog noscendis adjuvandisque miscentur et paulo post ibi ergo sunt spiritus defunctorum ubi non vident quecunque aguntur aut eveniunt in istâ vitâ hominibus Ep. 118. Si quid hocum sic faciendum divinae Scripturae praescribat authoritas non est dubitandum quin ita facere debeamus similiter si quid per orbem tota frequentat Ecclesia that the Saints departed have no knowledge of our affaires upon earth the Prophet Esay saith Abraham knoweth us not and Israel is ignorant of us If so great Patriarchs knew not what befell their posteritie after their death how can it be defended that the dead intermeddle with the actions or affaires of the living to helpe them onward or so much as to take notice of them A little after he concludes flat upon the Negative The Spirits therefore of the dead there remaine where they knowe not what befalleth to men in this life To what end therefore should wee call upon them in our troubles and distresse here Neither hath this Father any thing in his 118 Epistle for the Iesuit or against us for there hee speaketh of Ecclesiasticall Rites and Customes as appeares in the very title of that Epistle not of Doctrines of Faith and yet even in these hee giveth a preheminence to the Scriptures If saith hee the authoritie of divine Scripture prescribe any Rite or Custome to be kept there is no question to be made of such a Rite or Custome and in like manner if the whole Church throughout the world constantly useth such a Rite or Custome The Iesuites next allegation out of this Fathers booke De unitate Eccles cap. 22. falleth short of his marke hee saith there that Christ beareth witnesse to his Church that it should be Catholike that is spread over the face of the Earth and not to be confined to any certaine place as the Province of Affrica Wee say the same and adde that the bounds of it are no more the territories of the Bishop of Rome than the Provinces of Affrica Wee grant that Whosoever refuseth to follow the practise of the Church to wit the Catholike or universall Church resisteth or goeth against our Saviour who promised by his spirit to leade her into all truth and to be with her to the end of the World Which promise may yet stand good and firme though any particular Church erre in Faith or manners as did the Churches of Asia planted by the Apostles themselves and the Church of Rome doth at this day Cont. lit Petil. l. 3. c. 6. Now because that testimonie of Saint Austine wherewith the Knight concludes almost every Section If wee or an Angell from heaven preach unto you any thing whether it be of Christ or of his Church or any thing which concerneth Faith or manners besides that which you have received in the Legall and Evangelicall Scriptures let him be accursed is as a beame in all Papists eyes therefore they use all possible meanes to take it out but all in vaine for the words of the Apostle on which Saint Paul commenteth are not as the Iesuit would have them If any man preach unto you Contra against but if any preach unto you Praeter besides Ep. ad Galat. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Neque enim inquit si contraria solum predicaverint intulit anathema esto sed si evangelizaverint preter id quod ipsi evangelisavimus hoc est si plusculum quidpiam adjecerent as Saint Chrysostome and Theophylact accutely observe The Apostle saith not if Chrysostome rightly understand him if they should preach any thing contrary but if they shall in their preaching adde any thing be it never so little besides that which wee have preached unto you let him be accursed And Theophylact is altogether as plaine as Chrysostome in his Glosse upon the words The Apostle inferreth not if any man preach contrarie to that yee have received but if any preach besides that which wee have preached unto you that is if they shall presume to adde any thing though never so little let them be accursed Neither doth Saint Austine in his tractate upon Saint Iohn upon which Bellarmine and after him Flood so much beare themselves any whit contradict the former interpretations of Saint Chrysostome and Theophylact. For his words in that place carry this sense The Apostle saith not if any man preach more unto you than you have already received that is perfectly conceived and apprehended for then hee should goe against himselfe who saith that hee desired to come to the Thessalonians to supply
Vicar using humane diligence and proceeding prudently in a matter of that moment Ep. 68. vivebant ut latrones honoraebantur ut martyres to erre and whereas St. Austine saith that many were tormented with the Devill in Hell who were worshipped by men on earth it may be well understood of the Martyrs of the Donatists who were Canonized by those Haeretikes to be Martyrs whose soules were tormented in Hell and whereas Sulpitius and Cassander speake of wicked Robbers and damned persons honoured by the name of Holy Martyrs it followeth not that because some people in St. Martins time did erre in worshiping a dead theefe for a Saint without any approbation of the Church ergo Catholikes may erre in worshiping of Saints Canonized and Authorized by the Church Though Gregorie and other Catholike Divines differ about the place manner punishment and durance of Purgatorie yet none rejecteth the beliefe of Purgatorie it selfe And as for Saint Austine alleaged by the Knight to the contrary his words are to be meant of the finall and eternall place of soules For otherwise Saint Austine is so expresse for Purgatory in the very booke and place quoted by the Knight to wit in his Enchiridian ad Laurentium that Mr. Antonie Alcock a zealous Disciple of Luther as it seemeth translating it into English is faine to write certaine annimadversions upon this Chapter wherein hee confesseth C. 110. Neque negandum est defunctorum animus c. Saint Austines opinion is here for Purgatorie The Saints owne words are Neither is it to be denied that the soules of the dead are relieved by the pietie of their friends living when the sacrifice of our Mediatour is offred for them or almes given in the Church The same Father elswhere saith The whole time betweene the death of a man and the generall resurrection containeth the soules in hidden receptacles as each is worthy either of ease or paine The Doctrine of Catholikes concerning worshipping of Images is not uncertaine it being this onely that Images are to be worshipped but not as Gods For the second Councell of Nice it requireth not onely kissing of Images and a civill kind of imbracing but a prostration on the ground and praying on the knees before them Gregorie de Valentia taketh the word Simulacrum in a good sense and concludeth out of Saint Peter that some Image-worship is lan full not any Idoll worship as the Knight imposeth on him The Hammer IN this Chapter the Iesuit in the fourth fift sixt seventh twelfth fifteene and sixteene Paragraphs doth nothing but seeth againe his old Coleworts which were tasted before and after cast into the dunghill From whence I purpose not to gather them againe or set them before the Reader lest his stomacke should rise at them but I addresse my selfe to examine onely such Sophismes Cavils and Evasions whereby hee indeavoureth to elude or retort the Knights arguments brought against him in this Section in order as I have set them downe To the first The consequence of the Iesuit drawne from the Knights supposed failing in his proofes failes many wayes as may be proved by manifold instances For albeit many later Mathematitians faile in refuting Copernicus his giddy opinion of the earths circular motion and the heavens standing still yet this their failing is no sufficient proofe of Copernicus his new fancie neither will it follow that the religion of Pagans Infidels hath sufficient ground because Lactantius failes in his proofes of Christianitie in Saint Ieromes judgement and Cyprian also in the judgement of Lactantius The defects of the Patron or Advocate ought not to be imputed to the cause It is a weake and silly Religion whose whole strength consisteth in the weakenesse of some of the opposers of it The truth is the Knight hath not failed in his proofes of the noveltie of the Trent Creed as the judicious Reader will find yet if there were any defect in them it may be abundantly supplied out of Iuels challenge at Saint Pauls-Crosse Abbots answer to Bishop intituled The true ancient Roman Catholike and Doctor Faner in his Booke of Antiquitie triumphing over noveltie and divers others To the second That the salvation of all soules dependeth upon the Popes supremacie which the Iesuits are bound by a fourth and supernumerary vow to defend is a bold and blasphemous assertion derogatorie to Christ himselfe who is the Saviour of his body Ephes 5.23 1 Cor. 3.11 and only foundation which beareth up the waight and frame of the whole Catholike Church When Christ said to Peter Thou art Peter and upon this Rocke will I build my Church hee meant not as Saint Austine rightly observeth To build himselfe upon Peter but Peter and the whole Church upon himselfe non super te edificabome sed super me edificabo te The Church was founded and established before there was any Pope or Bishop at Rome and shall so continue when Rome shall perchance be burnt with fire Tract de auferibilit Papae and the Papacie which now tottereth shall be utterly destroyed Doth not their owne Gerson teach that the Pope may be quite removed and yet the Catholike Church still remaine how then can the Jesuit say that the waight and frame of the whole Catholike Church dependeth upon the authoritie of the Pope To the third The Knight used a dilemma or two-forked Argument Either the Popes sworn-Servants and our sworne enemies whose depositions before wee heard against divers articles of the Trent Faith concurred with other Papists in judgement or not if they concurred then by the joynt confession of all for those points at least they are destitute of universality which yet they make a prime note of their Church if others concurred not with them in judgement then their Doctors are divided amongst themselves and consequently they want another speciall marke of their Church which they make unitie in point of Faith To avoid the push of this Ramme the Iesuit starts * Quintil. Institut orat lib. 6. Diverticula et anfractus suffugia sunt infirmitatis ut qui cursu parum valent flexu eludunt aside into a Scholasticall speculation whether any thing is to be held for an article of Faith before it be defined and resolveth the matter thus When a a thing is once defined to wit by the Church then it becomes a matter of Faith Hee should rather determine because this or that is a matter of Faith therefore the Church defineth it to be so and not because the Church defineth it to be so therefore it is a matter of Faith For Faith if it be divine is founded upon Gods Word not the Churches definition if nothing be matter of Faith before it be defined by your Church then Transubstantiation was no article of Faith before the Councell of Laterane and Innocentius the third his dayes nor the Doctrine of Concommitancie and lawfull communicating in one kind before the Councell of Constance under Martin the fift nor the
of either to the notable preiudice of faith and the salvation of soules I reply first that for five of the seven as was discussed at large Section the fourth the Iesuit is so farre from any certainty that indeede he can bring no probability that there be any such Sacraments in the Catholike Church and for the other two which we acknowledge to be Sacraments properly so called he cannot be certaine that they are ever effectually administred in his Church according to their owne Tenents who suspend the efficacy of them upon the Priests intention Nay farther he cannot be certaine that they have any Church at all amongst them for there can be no Church as they teach without a visible succession of lawfull Pastours whereof hee cannot be certaine sith no man knoweth whether the Bishops who ordained their Priests or the Archbishop who ordained their Bishops or the Pope who consecrated their Archbishops intended that which your Church intendeth and if there failed an intention in any of all these or in him who baptized or ordained their first Pope since the Bishops of Rome began to be Popes hee hath no certainty according to his owne grounds of any Priesthood or Christianitie in his Church To the seventh I never heard before that it could be good or any way profitable surdo fabulum narrare to tell a Tale in the care of a deafe man Where doe the Scriptures or ancient Fathers give any approbation to such senslesse devotion can a man call upon him with faith or any hope of obtaining his suit whom hee conceiveth to be out of his hearing Yea but Gabriel Biel speaketh not doubtfully but certainly of Invocation though hee seeme to doubt of the manner how Saints in heaven know our necessities on earth Biel indeed lispeth somewhat that way but hee speaketh not plaine hee saith Invocantur sancti not sancti sant invocandi hee speaketh confidently and certainly of the practise of the Romane Church out not of the truth of this point of the Romish Faith that Saints ought to be called upon for that hee taught In Can. Missae Dist 31. videri probabile that It may seeme probable that God revealeth to Saints all those suits which men present unto them consequently holdeth that it may seeme also probable that the living may pray unto them But what is this his probabile or Peter Lumbards not incredibile to build an Article of Faith upon Yea but Peter Lumbard though hee make some doubt whether the Saints heare our Prayers as they proceed from us they being in Heaven and wee in Earth they being but in one place Sicut enim Angelis ita etiam sanctis qui Deo assistant petitiones nostrae innotescunt in verbo Dei quod contemplantur and those that call upon them in a million of places distant farre one from the other yet Hee maketh no doubt of their knowing and seeing our Prayers in the Word of God as the Angels doe I answer that this imaginarie Glasse of the Schoolemen wherein they conceive that the Saints and Angels see all things by the contemplation of God in whom are all things hath beene long agoe battered in pieces For if because they see God they must needs see all things that are in him and know all that hee knoweth it would hereupon insue that the Saints knowledge should be infinite as Gods is that they should know the day and houre when Christ shall come to judgement contrary to the expresse words of our Saviour Marke 13.32 that they should know the secrets of all hearts which the Scripture ascribeth as a singular prerogative to God To avoid these Rockes if our Adversaries will confine the knowledge of the Saints or Angels to such things onely as God shall be pleased to reveale unto them they beg then the point in question which they ought to prove viz. That God will reveale to every Saint what every man on earth prayeth to him for To the eighth First the Iesuit in this answer flatly contradicteth Cajetan whom hee undertaketh to defend for if the Church groundeth not the canonization of Saints upon the report of miracles voyced on them Cajetans Argument in that place is weak and of no force Secondly for the authoritie of the See Apostolike and the infallibility of the Popes judgement they are as uncertaine or more then that such persons canonized by the Pope are Saints L. 3. ep 3. nec quisquam sibi quod soli filio tribuit pater vindicare se putet ut ad areum pargandam c. 1 Kings 8.39 Saint Cyprian in his time severely censured those who arrogated to themselves that which the Father hath given to the Sonne onely to wit in the floore of the Church to take the fanne in his hand and sever the Wheat from the Chaffe If God onely knoweth the hearts of all the children of men either the Pope must be God as the Canonists blasphemously called him or hee cannot infallibly know who are true Saints and sincerely beleeve and love God As for Saint Austines complaint that many were worshipped by men on earth that are tormented by the devill in hell they are indefinitely spoken and not restrained to Donatists or any other Heretikes yet were it so wee may see in those Donatists a perfect picture of Papists For what Donatus did in Affrica that doth the Pope in Europe hee canonizeth those of his faction for Saints And as the Donatists gave the honour of Martyrs to those who justly suffered death for Robberies and Murders so doe the Papists crowne the heads of Murderers and Traitours with the garland of Martyrdome witnesse Becket Campian Oldcorne and Garnet whereof the first standeth in the Kalender of Romish Saints the later in the Register of Jesuiticall Martyrs Neither can the Iesuit so easily fillip off the testimonie of Cassander as if hee taxed the ignorant for making a Saint of a Thiefe Cassan consult art 2. and no way touched upon the Pope or your Church for hee layeth not the blame upon the people as the Iesuit here doth but saith simply that Saint Martin found a place honoured in the name of a holy Martyr to be the sepulcher of a wicked Robber Secondly 't is well knowne that the people cry not up at first a Saint or Martyr after his death but the Priests who voyce miracles upon them and keepe their Shrines and Reliques and by shewing them to the people make no lesse gaine than Demetrius and his fellow Crafts-men did of their silver Shrines of Diana To the ninth As hee that plucks the stickes out of the Chimney one by one at last puts out the fire so the Knight by loosening or quite removing the fuell of Purgatorie fire consequently extinguisheth it If all the parts and circumstances of the Doctrine of Popish Purgatory are doubtfull and uncertaine the whole certainly can be no Article of Faith but the Antecedent the Knight proves out of Bellarmine Dominicus a Soto Fisher
Bishop of Rochester Gregorie the great and venerable Bede let the Iesuit therefore looke to the Consequent The Church of Rome commandeth every one upon paine of hell-fire to beleeve a temporarie purging fire after this life First upon what ground Scripture or unanimous consent of Fathers or Tradition of the Catholike Church no such thing But upon apparitions of dead men and testimonie of Spirits whether good Spirits or evill they cannot tell Next wee demand what soules and how long doe they contine there To this they must answer likewise Ignoramus Soto thinketh that none continueth in this purgation ten yeares If this be true saith Bellarmine No soule needs to stay in purging one houre Thirdly the soules that are supposed to be there till their sinnes are purged where with are they purged With fire onely so saith Sir Thomas Moore and proves it out of Zacharie 9.11 Thou hast delivered the prisoners out of the place where there is no water or with water and fire so saith Gregorie in his Dialogues lib. 4. Some are purged by fire and some by bathes and Fisher Bishop of Rochester proves it out of those words of the Psalmist Wee have passed thorow fire and water Fourthly admit they are purged by fire whether is this fire materiall or metaphoricall Ignoramus Wee know not saith Bellarmine lib. 2. de Purg. cap. 6. Lastly is there any mittigation of this paine in Purgatorie or no They cannot tell this neither For venerable Bede hist Ang. lib. 5. tels us of the apparition of a Ghost reporting that There was an infernall place where soules suffered no paine where they had a brooke running through it Neither is it improbable saith Bellarmine l. 2. de Purg. cap. 7. that there should be such an honorable prison which is a most milde and temperate Purgatorie Yea but saith the Iesuit Saint Austin is a firme man for Purgatorie and hee will prove it out of that booke of Enchiridion and place quoted by the Knight Resolutely spoken but so falsly Encharid ad Laurent c 69. Tale aliquid etiam post hanc vitam fieri incredibile non est et utrum ita sit quaeri potest et ut inveniri aut latere possit nonnullos fideles per ignem quendam purgaiorium salvari non tamen tales de quibus dictū est regnum Dei non posside bant that in this very booke chapter 69 Saint Austine speaking of a purging fire and commenting upon the words of Saint Paul Hee shall be saved as it were by fire addeth immediately It is not unlikely that some such thing may be after this life but whether it be so or no it may be argued and whether it can be found or not found that some Beleevers are saved by a purging fire yet it is certaine that none of them shall be saved of whom the Apostle saith they shall not inherit the Kingdome of God And in the same booke chapter 109. he resolves that All soules from the day of their death to their resurrection abide in expectation what shall become of them and are reserved in secret receptacles accordingly as they deserve either torment or ease These hidden Cells or Receptacles wheresoever they are scituated in St. Austins judgment C. 109. Tempus quod inter hominis mortem ultimam resurrectionem interpositum est animus abditis receptaculis continet sicut unaqueque digna est vel requiae vel arumnâ certaine it is they are not in the Popish Purgatory for St. Austine placeth in these secret Mansions all soules indifferently good or bad whereas the Popish Purgatory is restrained only to those of a middle condition being neither exceeding good nor exceeding bad Againe in St. Austines hidden repositories some soules have ease and some paine as each deserveth but in the Romish Purgatory all soules are in little-ease being tormented in a flame little differing from Hell fire or rather nothing at all save onely in time the paines are as grievous but not so durable Else where St. Austine is most direct against Purgatory and wholly for us as namely de peceat meritis de remissione l. 1. c. 28. There is no middle or third place saith he but he must needs be with the Devill who is not with Christ And Hypog l. 5. The first place the faith of Catholikes by divine authority beleeveth to be the Kingdome of Heaven the second to be Hell tertium locum penitùs ignoramus the third place we are alltogether ignorant of and in his booke de vanit seculi cap. 1. Know that when the soule is seperated from the body statim presently it is either placed in Paradise for his good worke or cast headlong into the bottome of hell for his sinnes Neither can the Iesuit evade by saying that there are two onely places where the soules remaine finally and eternally to wit Heaven and Hell but yet that there is a third place where the bodies fry in purging for a time for St. Austine speakes of all soules in generall both good and bad and saith that statim that is presently upon death they are receaved into Heaven or throwne into Hell and therefore stay no time in a Third place What then say we to the passage in which the Iesuit so triumpheth Enchirid. ad Laurenc c. 110. Neither is it to be denied that the soules of the dead are relieved by the piety of their friends living when the Sacrifice of our Mediatour is offered for them and Almes given in the Church We answer that where St. Austine is not constant to himselfe we are not bound to stand to his authority and therefore we appeale from Saint Austine missing his way in this place to the same Austine Nullum auxilium misericordiae potest preberi a justis defunctorum animabus etiamsi justi praebere velint quia est immutabilis divina sententia Qualis quisque moritur talis a Deo judicatur nec potest mutari corrigi vel minus dimia sententia hitting his way elsewhere namely l. 2. Quest Evan. c. 38. There can be no helpe of mercy afforded by just men to the soules of the deceased although the righteous would never so faine have it so because the sentence of God is immutable and Ep. 80. ad Hesich such as a man is when he dieth for such he is judged of God neither can the sentence of God be changed corrected or diminished As for Mr. Anthony Alcots confession that Saint Austines opinion was for purgatorie it maketh not for the Iesuit but against him for he saith it was his opinion not his resolved judgment and his opinion at one place and at one time which after he retracted and resolved the cleane contrary as Mr. Alcots there in part sheweth and Danaeus most fully in his Comment upon St. Austine his Enchiridian ad Laurentium To the tenth If all Papists did agree in this that all Images were to be worshipped but not as Gods yet are they at odds in other
of Baruch and the second booke of the Macchabees and the booke of Nehemiah which the present Romane Church receiveth for Canonicall Secondly Gelasius with his Roman Councell freely give their censure of all Theologicall bookes then extant but they clip not the tongues of any Authors nor burne their bookes If the Romish Inquisitors had done no more if they had let the Records and Evidences remaine and onely censured them at their pleasure wee would not so much have blamed them for using the freedome of their judgements wee would only freely have censured their Censures Lips Epist Critica nostra non effugêre 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and left all to the judicious and intelligent Readers judgement An errour in Criticisme is pardonable but the making away of the evidence of Truth Advers Gentes l. 3. Intercipere scripta publicatam velle submergere lectionem non est Deos defendere sed veritatis testificationem timere and defacing authenticall Records is a damnable practise and an undoubted Argument both of an evill conscience and a desperate cause as Arnobius layeth the Law to the Gentiles To the third Gelasius his testimonie of the Romane Church whereof hee was then Bishop can be of no great moment It seemeth at that time the Church of Rome wanted good neighbours that the Pope was faine to blazon his owne armes and guild his owne Diocese not thinking of the old Proverbe Laus propria sordet in ore Howbeit wee grant in Gelasius his time the Romane Church had not many spots and wrinkles for then shee was young in comparison now she is old and decrepit and all full of wrinkles and after the manner of crooked old age boweth downe to wit to rood-lofts Images and Pictures But neither then nor now hath shee any power to forbid the use of any Books through the whole Church but onely within her owne jurisdiction To the fourth This Plaister is a great deale too narrow for the Sore of the Romane Church to which the Iesuit applieth it For it is not their admonitions to the Children of their owne Church which we here complaine of but their cutting out of the tongues of learned Authors when they witnesse the truth not the censuring their own Writers but the mangling of some of them and utterly abolishing others Vnder colour of taking away Rats-bane out of the way they take away Sugar from their Children and which is worse debarre them from the sincere Milke of the Word I meane the Scriptures in the vulgar language Yet were there Rats-bane in some of the Writers with whom the Inquisitours have to deale they should have onely given notice thereof or prescribed some Antidote against it considering that Physitians and Apothecaries and Housholders also make good use of Rats-bane sometimes To the fift The Iesuit doth well not to undertake justifying of the Inquisition which hee well knoweth hee is not able onely here and there hee nibleth at some Author or other that hath falne into their hands as Bertram in this place whom the Knight long agoe rescued and gave unto him the wings of the Presse to flie abroad whereby hee hath received no disgrace but many thankes from all that love the Truth in sinceritie For the translation thereof which the Iesuit imputeth to the Knight as a great disparagement to him the truth is the Knight translated not Bertram but published the translation of another by re-printing it and gracing it with a learned and elegant Preface of his owne Which I marvell not that the Iesuit kicketh at because hee and his fellow Iesuits are sore Galled with it When the Iesuit shall prove any falsification in the translated Copie or any errour inserted into it hee shall receive a further answer Till then let the brand remaine upon the Romane Index for damning the originall and upon the Iesuit for defaming the true translated Copie of so learned and orthodox a Writer as Bertram was To the sixt In citing the Councell of Laodicea and detecting the Inquisitours foule dealing with it by turning Angels into Angles to gaine a starting hole for their Idolatrie the Iesuit by recrimination objecteth to the Knight errour in Chronology and corruption of the Councell To the first I answer that the Primate of Armath and other learned Antiquaries have set this Councell about the yeare mentioned by the Knight your Binius ingeniously confesseth quo anno celebratum fuit incertum est It is uncertaine in what yeare of our Lord this Councell was held hee saith it was celebrated before the Councell of Nice but hee brings no proofe of it If wee should grant him that this Councell were elder by 40 or 50 yeares than the Knight accounteth it it would be more for our advantage and against him sith Councels the more ancient they are caeteris paribus the more authority they carrie with them To the second I answer that the translation which the Knight followed agreeth verbatim with the originall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which words two of the Romish Translators set in Columnes one against the other by Binius render as followeth The first thus Quod non oporteat Christianos relictâ dei ecclesiâ abire Angelos nominare The other thus Quod non oporteat ecclesiam dei relinquere atque Angelos nominare That is that Christians ought not to leave the Church of God and goe their wayes and name Angels that is mention them in our Prayers or take their names in our lips as the Psalmist speaketh of Idoll-worshippers Psal 16.4 Their drink-offerings of blood will I not offer nor take their name in my lips And thus Theodoret in his Comment upon the second Chapter of St. Paul to the Colossians vers 18. alleageth the Canon of this Councell Because saith hee they commanded men to worship Angels Saint Paul enjoyneth on the contrarie that they should send up Thanksgiving to God the Father by him that is Christ and not by the Angels The Synod of Laodicea also following this rule of the Apostle and desiring to heale that old disease made a Law that they should not pray unto Angels 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Here the Iesuit hath both the Canon and the Report the Canon of the ancient Councell held at Laodicea thundring against their Invocation of Angels and the learned and ancient Father Theodoret his Report of it To the seventh Those men whom the Iesuit nameth were not Fathers of our Religion but Brethren onely of our profession neither was their motive for the change of their Religion carnall love as the Iesuit like impure Nero judging others by himselfe conceiveth but a voyce from Heaven saying unto them goe out of Babylon my people Apoc. 18.4 lest you partake of her Plagues It is true those instruments of Gods glory were married as the Apostles St. Peter and St. Phillip and many of the chiefe Bishops and Pastours in the Primitive Church were of whom it may be said as Sozomen spake of
subject unto in it selfe Lastly the Iesuit taketh himselfe by the nose in saying Heretikes in all Controversies run to the letter of the Scriptures leaving the true sense and spirituall meaning for so doe the Romanists apparantly namely in the Controversie of Supremacie Ecce duo gladii Loe here two swords therefore the Pope hath the temporall and spirituall Sword at command Peter rise up kill and eate therefore the Pope hath power to put Princes to death In the question about the number of Sacraments they alleage the letter of that text in the vulgar translation Hoc est magnum Sacramentum to prove marriage a Sacrament whereas the Apostle in the same place saith that hee speaketh not of corporall marriage of a man and his wife but of the spirituall marriage of Christ and his Church Likewise in the Controversie about the reall presence they run to the letter Except yee eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood though Christ in the same place expounding himselfe saith The words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and life the like may be observed in other Controversies For answer to all which texts wee tell him out of Saint Ierome whom himselfe quoteth in the next Paragraph That the Gospell consisteth not in the words of Scripture but in the sense not in the supersicies or barke but in the pith not in the leaves of speech but in the root of reason To the tenth How neere neighbours the Romanists are to Marcion who denied or by consequence overthrew the truth of Christs humaine nature as the Papists doe in the Sacrament vailing him under the outside or accidents of a round water and what affinitie the Iesuit hath with the rest of the ancient Heretikes the Knight shewed him before in his seventh Section and if hee desire to know more of his pedegree from them I referre him to an Appendix to Whitakers answer to Sanders his Demonstration page 801. As for the aspersion of old Heresies which hee casts upon us they are washed away by Bishop Morton and Doctor Field in their Treatises of the Church Ad notam sextam But why hee denies that wee have the Spirit arrogating it onely to himselfe I see no reason but the pride of his owne spirit together with the malice of the evill spirit who suggested unto him this uncharitable censure of us To the eleventh The Scripture is a Light Psal 119. and the nature of a light is first to discover it selfe and then all things else therefore Calvin to his fond question how know you Scripture to be Scripture answereth acutely by retortion how know you the Sun to be the Sun If hee say by his bright lustre and beames wee say the same of holy Scripture that it is discerned by its owne light Which if the Papists see hot the fault ought not to be laid upon the Sun-beames but upon their Owles eyes To the twelfth That rule which needeth any thing to be added to it is imperfect but all Papists teach that to the written Word unwritten Traditions must bee added to make a compleat and perfect rule of Faith all Papists therefore teach the Scripture alone to be an imperfect Rule We on the contrary stand for the perfection of Scripture and constantly and unanimously defend that not onely the whole Scripture is perfect but that every part also hath its owne perfection but not the perfection of the whole Because the eyes have not the perfection of the whole head or the head the perfection of the whole body a man cannot conclude that the eye or the head is imperfect no more can the Iesuit conclude that the Gospell of Saint Matthew Saint Marke or Saint Iohn are therefore imperfect because they containe not in them all doctrines in particular necessary to salvation It is sufficient that they together with the rest perfectly instruct us in all points of faith by themselves they perfectly informe us so farre as the Holy Ghost intendeth that we should be informed by each of them in particular and this is their perfection that they have no defect in matter or forme and that they concurre with the rest of the bookes of Scripture to the maine end of the Holy Ghost in committing the word of God in writing for the infallible and perfect instruction of the Church and every faithfull soule in all Doctrines needfull to salvation To the thirteenth Although many Protestants have written de Scripturâ judice and they have warrant our of Scripture so to stile it the words which I have spoken they shall judge you yet in propriety of speech which especially ought to be used in stating questions the Scripture is rather to be termed a rule and law or sentence of the judge then the judge himselfe the supreame and infallible judge of all controversies we teach to be the Holy Ghost speaking to us out of Scriptures and the subordinate or inferior Judge the consencient authority of the Catholique Church To the fourteenth The Iesuit shewed no such thing nor can shew out of Tertullian De praescrip advers haeret c. 17. who convinced the greater part of Haeretikes in his time by Scripture as appeareth in his writings In the place which the Iesuit quoteth he hath no such words as he alleageth out of him viz. that there is no good to be done with Haeretikes by Scriptures He saith indeede in that place that it was but in vaine to conferre with a certaine kinde of Haeretikes by Scriptures alone quia ista haeresis non recipit quasdam Scripturas et si recipit non recipit integras et si aliquatenus integras praestat c. That is This haeresie admits not of certaine Scriptures or not intire or if in some sort in ire it perverts them by divising divers interpretations In which words he no way disparageth the holy Scriptures or derogateth from their perfection but discovereth the wicked practise of Haeretikes and their evasions and tergiversations when they are most evidently convinced by Scriptures Will you say that if a Bedlam or willfull malefactor either by puffing out the Candle or shutting his eyes or looking another way will not reade or see the evidence that is brought against him that therfore the evidence is not able to convince him To the fifteenth Though it were granted the Iesuit that the Papists have written more upon the Scriptures then Protestants it will not from thence follow that they more reverence or honour the Scripture sithence in their very Commentaries upon Scripture they derrogate from the authority sufficiency and perfection of them by refusing to referre all points of faith in controversie to their decision by resolving their faith last of all not into them but into the Church by teaching that they are obscure even in points necessary to salvation and that unwritten Traditions are equally to be reverenced with them Secondly compare men with men and oportunities with oportunities it may easily be proved that
witnesses for proofe of the Catholike Faith beginneth with Martyrs those particularly who being Pastours of the Roman Church suffered Martyrdome successively one after another to the number of thirty three These saith Campian were ours and nameth some of them as Telesphorus Victor Sixtus Cornelius with the particular points which they held conformably with us against Protestants That these Martyrs are ours notwithstanding they died not for any of those points the Knight mentioneth is plaine because they professed the same Catholike Faith which wee doe which wee also prove by the Faith of their successour Vrban the eigth who as hee holdeth their seat so also their Faith for Peters Chaire and Faith goe together as the very Heretike Pelagius confessed to Pope Sozimus saying to him Tu qui Petri fidem sedem tenes Not to stand here upon the most effectuall and infallible Prayer of our Saviour himselfe Oravi pro te Petre ut non deficiat fides tua which proofe must stand firme till Sir Humphrey can tell us what Pope began to vary from his predecessors For adoration of Images whereas the Knight asketh whether any of these three and thirty were canonized for it though there be no speciall mention of any of these three and thirty their adoration of Images yet there is very pregnant presumption thereof by this that Pope Sylvester who was the very next after the three and thirtieth and was Pope in time of Constantines conversion had the pictures of Saint Peter and Saint Paul which it is most like he received from his Predecessors Moreover it is plaine that those three and thirty were ours by their owne decretall Epistles which are so full of those points which Father Campian citeth that the Heretikes have no other shift but to denie the authority of the same Epistles That the consecrated Bread depending upon the Priests intention is the reall Flesh of Christ or that this Priest Garnet by name hath power to consecrate is no matter of Faith but that in the Sacrament the matter forme intentton and all things requisite concurring the Bread and Wine is really and truely converted into the Body and Blood of Christ this is a matter of Faith and this a man is to die for Neither maketh it any matter whether any man have died for it or not for that is more in the persecutors power to appoint what point of a mans Faith hee will put him to death for than in the Martyrs owne who must be readie to die for all and every one as well for one as for another The Hammer IN this Chapter the Knight pulleth the garland of Red Roses off from the heads of all Papists I meane the Crowne of Martyrdome by three most forcible arguments which may thus be reduced into Syllogisticall forme 1. None of those who suffered death for the common Articles of the Christian Faith which we all professe are to be accounted Popish Martyrs But the 33. Popes and all the Martyrs in the Primitive Church suffered death for the common Articles of faith which we all professe Ergo none of them were Popish Martyrs neither can they lay any more or better claime to them then we if so good 2. All that may be tearmed truely Popish Martyrs must suffer death either for the profession of the Trent Faith in generall or some speciall point of it wherein they differ from the reformed Churches But none of the Primitive Martyrs suffered death for the profession of the Trent Faith in generall or any point thereof wherein they differ from the beliefe of the reformed Churches Ergo none of the Primitive Martyrs were Popish 3. If the Articles of the Romish Creed published by Pope Pius were either unknowne to the Primitive Church or not then declared to be de fide none in those dayes could suffer Martyrdome for them But the twelve new Articles of Pope Pius his Creed were altogether unknowne to the Primitive Church or not then declared and defined to be de fide as the Iesuit Page 490. in part acknowledgeth Ergo none in the Primitive Church could suffer Martyrdome for them What wards the Iesuit hath for these blowes we shall see in the examination of the particular exceptions before mentioned To the first It is as true that those 33. martyred Popes were Martyrs of the Romish Religion as that Campion the Iesuit who suffered death for Treason against Queene Elizabeth was a Martyr The truth is that although Campion in his tenth Reason search Heaven and rake Hell also for witnesses to prove the truth of the Romish Religion yet he findeth none as D. Whitaker clearely demonstrateth in his answer to that tenth reason and his defence thereof against Dureus To let others passe those 33. Bishops of Rome the Iesuit mentioneth who now weare Crownes of Martyrdome in Heaven never ware the Popes triple Crowne on Earth P. 486. l. 16. I answer that those Martyrs suffered death not for the points now in controversie with Haeretikes but for the profession of Christianity at the hands of the enemies of Christ They sate as Bishops of Rome they sate not as Lords over the whole Church neither was the cause of their death any contestation with Princes for Soveraignty nor the maintenance of any points now in controversie as the Iesuit himselfe confesseth but the profession of Christianity They were not therefore Martyrs of the Roman Church as she is at this present nor of their Trent Creed but of the Catholike Church and the common faith once given to Saints To the second The Iesuits argument drawne from these 33. Bishops of Rome to Pope Vrbane the eighth fall short at least by 1300. yeares If he should thus argue in the Schooles Pope Vrbane the eighth in the yeare of our Lord 1633. held the Trent faith and beleeved Pope Pius the fourth his Creed therefore the 33. Bishops that suffered Martyrdome under the Heathen Emperours within 300. yeares after Christ held the same faith and subscribed to the same Articles of Trent he would be stampt at and hissed out by all present for who knoweth not that George the Arian immediatly succeeded Athanasius the most Orthodox Bishop and that all the Arian Bishops in Constantius his time held the Sees of those Orthodox Bishops who in the first Councell at Nice condemned that blasphemous haeresie In our memory did not Cardinall Poole a Papist succeede Cranmer a Protestant Bishop and Martyr againe did not Parker in Q. Elizabeths daies a learned Protestant succeed Cardinall Poole an Arch-papist in his Arch-bishoprick of Canterbury What a wooden Argument then is this to inferre succession in Doctrine from succession in the same Chaire This wretched Argument the Iesuit proves as lewdly by the testimonie of Pelagius the Heretike This is indeed to Aske his brother if he be a thiefe or no to aske an Heretike whether your Romish Doctrine be not hereticall Yet so unfortunate is hee in his proofe that even this his onely witnesse how liable
bookes yet extant wherein he no way approveth of Transubstantiation but condemneth it expressely Neither doth he say that a right beliefe in the Sacrament touching the substance thereof is no matter of salvation but that it is no matter of salvation to beleeve after what manner the substance of Christs body is in the Sacrament whether by Consubstantiation or Transubstantiation which is most true for as Doctor Andrewes late Bishop of Winton acutely observed Christ said hoc est Corpus meum non hoc modo est or fit Corpus meum this is my Body not the bread is after this manner my body To the sixt If communion in both kindes be an haeresie Christ his Apostles and the Primitive Church which administred and received the Communion in both kinds as is confessed in the Councell at Constance cannot be free from haeresie And whereas the Iesuit saith that this Martyr in all other points held with Papists the contrary appeares in his printed bookes and by the prayer he made at his death mentioned by Cocleus in the history of the Huzzites wherein he prayeth to God that his soule after his death might be where the soule of Wickliffe is To the seventh To the Iesuit his allegations out of Barrow Hooker Some Bunnie and Covell Dr. Morton now Bishop of Duresme answereth at large in his Catholike appeale l. 4. from the first Section to the sixth where he proveth that the testimonies themselves and the reasons annexed to them doe shew that the above cited Protestants yeeld no more security to the Romish Church then they doe to any other erroneous Church wherein there is true baptisme and the the profession of the chiefe principles of faith Barrow acknowledgeth the Church of Rome to be a Church of God that is a Church professing Christianity in which there may be a possibility of salvation not an Orthodox or right believing Church in which there is certainty of salvation Hooker saith that the Church of Rome is a member of the visible Catholike Church a member not the Catholike Church and no sound member neither according to that Thesis of Doctor Reynolds Romana ecclesia nec est Catholica nec sanum membrum Catholicae Dr. Somes saith as likewise Iunius Iunius de Eccles l. sing Papatu◠est in Ecclesia seu in papatu est Ecclesia Papatus tamen non est Ecclesia that in Popery there is a Church that is under the Popes dominion Christ hath his Church or that Popery is in the Church yet that Popery is not the Church Bunnie saith that we are not a severall Church from the Papists that is not essentially defferent from it no more then a sicke man differeth from a sound Covell saith the Church of Rome is a part of the Church of Christ but a very unsound part From all which passages this onely may be concluded of the Roman Church as of other erroneous assemblies that though in regard of their manifold errors they must be esteemed sicke and unsound Churches yet in regard of the being and essence of a Church they must be acknowledged visible Churches of Christ Neither Field nor Morton saith that the Church of Rome is the Church of God but a Church of God Fields words are Romana ecclesia est verè ecclesia non vera ecclesia is truely a Church not a true Church Morton proveth in one whole Section that the Church of Rome is not properly the Catholike Church but a particular Church subject to error Sect. 6. Protest appeal l. 4. But in this point in what sense the Protestants call the Church of Rome a true Church see a late Treatise set forth by Doctor Hall the Bishop of Exton called the Reconciler wherein both he and Bishop Davenet and Morton in their letters affixed thereunto cleare the matter nothing at all I assure you to your advantage To the eight The Knight saith not that a man may be saved in one Religion yet so as he must not die in it but that a man living in one Religion to wit the Popish may be saved so that he renounce it before his death and dye in a better for not onely the bosome of the Church but also the gates of Heaven are alwayes open to the penitent as the Prophet Ezekiel teacheth C. 18.23 neither is this any new conceit of the Knight but the generall opinion of all Protestants as the Iesuit may read in the Catholike Appeale l. 4. c. 1. The Reverend Bishop now mentioned understanding how that great and honourable personage in the last Act of her life renounced all presumption of her owne inherent righteousnesse and wholly affianced her soule to Christ in beliefe to be justified onely by his satisfactory justice did therefore conceive hope of her salvation by vertue of that Cordiall prescribed by the Holy Apostle viz. that where sinne aboundeth the grace of God doth superabound which the Apostle hath ministred for the comfort of every Christian who erring by ignorance shall in sincere repentance for all his knowne sinnes depart this mortall life having the heele or end of his life shod with the preparation of the Gospell of peace not of the new Romish but of the old Catholike faith which is the faith of all Protestants C. 15. p. 363. And againe in his booke intituled the Grand Imposture If you demand why Protestants have so charitable opinion of some Romanists you are to understand that it is in regard of that without which they cannot be saved that they died in the beliefe of this Protestant Article of Faith which is to be justified by remission of all their sinnes through the satisfactory righteousnesse of Christ apprehended by faith and not by the legall justice or perfection of inherent righteousnesse in themselves as your Councell of Trent hath decreed and this opinion we finde verified in the experience of many Papists who howsoever in their life time they professe and magnifie your doctrine of perfection of works yet on their death bed as soone as the least glimpse of the majesty of Christs tribunall is revealed unto them and the booke of their conscience begins to be unclapsed and so laid open before them that they cannot but reade their sinnes which in their life-time they held as veniall to be deadly and written in Capitall litters then they take Sanctuary in the wounds of Christ from whence floweth the Ocean of all expiatory merit and satisfaction by which it is impossible but that every faithfull penitent should receive life To the ninth To this argument I say that it is paralyticall and weake in the sinewes For how doth this follow the Donatists held as the Papists doe that all men were damned that were not of their sect St. Austine de unit eccles c. 12. and other Catholike Bishops thought that some of them might be in the state of grace and that their Baptisme was good Ergo it is a safer way to embrace the Donatists haeresie then the Catholike
Heaven and Hell 19. That there are three holy Orders in the Church Bishops Priests and Deacons 20. That Confession to a Priest in case the Conscience be troubled with any grievous Sin is profitable and behoovefull To all these points and many more like unto these the Papists assent but in all their additions they stand single as namely 1. That a fourth Creed made by Pius the fourth is likewise to be received under paine of damnation 2. That religious worship is due to Saints 3. That Saints and Angels are to be called upon 4. That the Pope is the visible head of the Church 5. That Saints are our Mediatours and Advocates 6. That the Virgin Mary also was conceived without sinne 7. That wee are justified and saved in part by our owne Merits and superabundant satisfactions of Saints 8. That Tradition is a rule of Faith as well as Scripture 9. That besides those two and twenty there are other Books of the old Testament to wit Tobit Judith Baruch The Wisdome of Salomon Ecclesiasticus and the Maccabees to be admitted into the number of Canonicall Scriptures 10. That the vulgar Latin translation of the Scripture is most pure and authenticall 11. That besides Baptisme and the Lords Supper there are five other Sacraments Confirmation Order Penance Matrimonie and Extreme Vnction 12. That Gallies and Bels may and ought to be christened 13. That besides Water Creame Salt and Spittle are to be used in Baptisme 14. That Christ is present in the Sacrament by Transubstantiation and that his body and blood is not onely received spiritually by Faith but also carnally by the mouth 15. That the Sacrament of the Lords Supper may lawfully be administred to the Laity in one kind onely 16. That besides an historicall there is a religious use of Images and that they are to bee worshipped 17. That Peter had not onely a Primacie of Order but a power also and jurisdiction over the Apostles 18. That besides Heaven and Hell there is a third place of abode for soules to wit Purgatorie and a fourth also termed Limbus infantum 19. That besides those three holy Orders of Bishops Prists and Deacons there are others as namely Exorcists Acolyts c. 20. That confession of every knowne Sin to a Priest is necessarie Now because Negatives are not properly Articles of Faith but Positives or Affirmatives it appeareth evidently that the Faith of the reformed Churches is assented to by Papists themselves and all Christians in the world and therfore is most certain safe by the confession on all sides wheras the Popish additions wherein we stand onely upon the Negative and they are to make good the Affirmative are assented to by none but themselves and therefore by the Iesuits rule are weak doubtful and lesse safe This is Vulcaneum telum et argumentum palmarium the main and principall argument whereby the Knight demonstrateth the title of his Booke and hee is so confident of it that if that be to be accounted the safer way wherein different parties agree both in one as the Iesuit laid it downe in the former chapter hee will joyne issue with all Papists in the world in this very point and if in this hee make not good the title of his Booke that wee are therefore in the safer way because they agree in the principall and Positive points of Religion with our Doctrine hee will reconcile himselfe to the Roman Church and creepe upon all foure to his Holinesse for a Pardon At this the Iesuit is so mad that he fometh at the mouth and raveth saying Pag. 512. That to creepe upon all foure is a very fit gate for men so devoid of reason as to make such Discourses and to use such malicious insinuations as if men used to creepe upon all foure to the Pope Parce sepulto Parce pias scelerare manus be not so inhumane and barbarous in tearing the fame of the dead there is no cause at all given of such rage and furie The Knight doth herein no way blaspheme or falsly traduce Dominum deum Papam for those that ordinarily kisse the Popes toe unlesse his Holinesse be the more courteous to hold up his foot the higher must needs be neere creeping on all foure To say nothing of Dandalus King of Creete and Cyprus who was upon all foure and that under the Table before the Popes Holinesse as Iewell in his Apologie and the defence thereof undeniably proveth out of good Authors against Mr. Harding yet the Knight in this place chargeth not the Pope with any such imperious demand of Luciferian pride but onely professeth what penance hee would willingly enjoyne himselfe if hee should abuse the Reader and not make good the Title of his booke by the argument above propounded against which what the Iesuit here particularly Articleth and objecteth I will now consider To the first The words which the Iesuit would make seem so ridiculous are related by the Knight as their owne words not ours as any may perceive by the Preface to them therefore say they and by this that they are written in a lesser Character and is it not senslesse in the Iesuit and most ridiculous to laugh at himselfe and put his owne nonsense upon the Knight who taking the Iesuits words as he found them scorning to nible at syllables interpreted the Iesuits words at the best and taking his meaning joynes issue with him upon the point in this manner In a Church professing Christianity where the Scriptures of the old and new Testament are received and the two Sacraments instituted by Christ administred suppose we there to be two sorts of Professors either publikely allowed as in France or at least tollerated as in other Kingdomes both these entituling themselves to be members of the pure Orthodox Church and neither of them having beene particularly condemned in any generall Councell received through the Christian world the probleme then is whether of these two that party is not in the safer way who holdeth no positive Article of faith to which both parties besides all other Christians give not their assent unto then the other who maintaineth twelve Articles of faith at least wherein they themselves stand single and are forsaken by all Christians not onely of the reformed Churches in England France Germany Denmarke Swethland Norway Poland Transylvania but also in the Eastern and Greek Churches dispersed through the large Dominions of the Turke in Europe Asia and Africa But thus it standeth betweene us and Papists all the positive Articles which we hold necessary to salvation they themselves and all other Christian Churches in the world assent unto whereunto the Church of Rome hath added many other positive Articles in joyning all under paine of damnation to beleeve them in all which additions she standeth alone by her selfe therefore it is safer to adhere to the doctrine and faith of the reformed churches then the Pope his new Trent Creed The Iesuits exceptions against this argument
Oblationibus which you interpret Offrings Saint Ambrose cannot meane the peoples gifts or offrings for there was no need of any speech much lesse a long speech at these offrings It must therefore follow that either he meanes the celebration of the Sacrament or some spirituall sacrifices of Praise and Thanksgiving You proceed from one heresie to another viz from your unknown Service to your Transubstantiation This Doctrine I shewed had his descent from the Heretikes Helcesaitae from Marcus from the Capernaites Touching the Helcesaitae you say It is an hereticall fable for those Heretikes make two Christs pag. 92. wee acknowledge but one and the same both in heaven and in the consecrated Host It is true this particular Instance is cited amongst the Tables of Theodoret but yet you have affinitie with their Tenets as neere as cosen Germans once removed For as you acknowledge but one Christ in the heavens and in the Host no more did those Heretikes in words for they rehearsed the Apostles Creed Et in Iesum Christum and not in Christos and as they made a two-fold Christ one in heaven another in earth so likewise you teach that Christ in the Sacrament here on earth is invisible and indivisible but in heaven at the same time visible and with dimensions of quantitie and distinctions of Organs And what is this but consequently to make two Christs or at least to make contradictories true at the same time of one and the same Christ in respect of his humane nature to be visible and invisible Touching Marcus the Heretike you say Hee changed the colour but you teach that the colour and accidents remaine and the substance is changed It is true and your opinion in this is more absurd than that of Marcus for hee changed the Colour to make the people beleeve it was true blood and you make them beleeve it is blood when there is neither tast nor colour of blood Lastly touching the Capernaites you deny there is any likenesse of Doctrine For say you the Capernaites thought they should eate Christs body piece-meale but wee receive Christ whole and entire not in the forme and shape of flesh but of bread c. But I pray which of the Evangelists ever charged them with any such conceit The truth is they understood the words of Christ as you doe in a grosse and carnall manner and therfore Christ in reproving them saith not Flesh eaten piece-meale profiteth nothing but absolutely The flesh profiteth nothing As touching your eating of Christ whole and intire it is all one with their eating of him by piece-meale for there may be many differences in eating but all eating the flesh of Christ with teeth and jawes is Caperniticall But you neither see nor taste the flesh of Christ which they dream'd they should for you receive it Not say you in the forme of flesh but of bread I will returne you an Answer from a learned Divine on our side B. Bilson in the difference between Christ subject and unchristian Rebellion pag. 748. You chaw the flesh of Christ actually with your teeth and swallow the same downe your throats and these be proper actions and right instruments of externall and Caperniticall eating your eyes and your taste be not else blind men and such as by reason of Sicknesse can taste nothing by your Divinitie can eate nothing Since then you concurre with the Capernaites in eating and swallowing notwithstanding you vary from them in sight and taste yet your opinion establisheth a corporall eating of Christs flesh and a perverting of the meaning of Christs words no lesse than theirs did Let mee paralell them together with the most favorable construction I can yet your Church must have her Antiquitie and descent from those Capernaites For suppose the Capernaites did beleeve that Christ would kill himselfe and give his body to be eaten yet the Church of Rome teacheth that Christ did eate his owne flesh a thing no lesse barbarous being meant litterally than to kill himselfe Admit the Capernaites did beleeve that Christ would give his flesh to be mangled by pieces or by halves yet your Churches opinion is no lesse cruell to beleeve that in the Sacrament Christs flesh is swallowed up whole at one morsell Lastly let it be granted that the Capernaites did believe that Christs flesh should be eaten when hee was dead yet the opinion of the Romanists is more brutish to imagine his flesh to be eaten when he was alive being a higher degree of crueltie to devoure men alive Apertissimi loqâ—imur corpus Christi veri à nobis attrectari manducan circumgestari dentibus atteri sensibiliter sacrificari non minâ—â—â— quà m ante consecrationem panis Alanus lib. 3. de Euchar. cap. 37. than when they are dead Sure I am they both agree in this that according to the letter they should eate the flesh of Christ Orally Corporally and Substantially they both agree in the sensible handling of his body in devouring him with the mouth and in grinding him with the teeth Alanus the Romanist professeth openly in the name of the Church Apertissimi loquimur Wee affirme plainly the body of Christ is truly handled of us carried about ground with the teeth and sensibly sacrificed Long before him Pope Nicholas confirmed this doctrine in a Councell at Rome and taught it for a lesson to Berengarius Verum Corpus Domini nostii Iesu Christi sensuclitèr non solum in Sacramento sed in veritate manibus Sacerdotum tractari frangi ac fideliùm dentibus atteri Grat. de con secr d. 2. c. 4.2 Ego Berengarius to let him know the great difference betwixt Papist and Protestant in the same Church I beleeve that the body of our Lord Iosus is sensibly and in very deede touched with the hands of the Priest and broken and rent and ground with the teeth of the faithfull This confession stands a Record in the Roman Decrees and unlesse you mince the words strangely you must needs acknowledge that you eate the flesh of Christ peice-meale and then you sympathize in all things with your first Parents the Capernaites From Transubstantiation you proceede to the Popes Supiemacy wherein you say pag. 93. I am mistaken in saying that Phocas gave that authority to the Bishop of Constantinople It is true this is a mistake of the Printer but no corruption Rogatu Bonifacij phocas constituit sedem Romanae Apostolicae Ecclesie caput esse omnium Ecclesiarum nam anteà Constantinopolitana Ecclesia se scribebat primam omnium Vsperg in Phoc. fol. mihi and in the last Impression which you should have taken you shall finde Rome for Constantinople and this you might well understand to be an error in the print because my purpose was to shew a descent of the Bishop of Romes Supremacy not of the Bishop of Constantinople And this authority stands good against you notwithstanding all your exceptions viz. that the Pope of Rome and that
charge of Gods Church were not Teachers Bernard ad Eug. lib. 2. de Confiderat but Deceivers they were not Feeders but Beguilers they were not Pralates but Pilates And certainly if his whole Prerogative hang upon feeding the flocke his Superioritie will quickly come to nought for most of them feed not many are utterly ignorant and cannot feed others especially the later Popes feed their flocks for their owne ends August in Iohn Tract 123. And saith Saint Austine Whosoever they be that feed the sheepe to the end to make them theirs and not Christs they love themselves and not Christ for desire either of glorie or of rule or of gaine For a Conclusion the Popes humilitie is no other 2 Thes 2. then that which Antichrist professeth Advancing himselfe above all that is worshipped or called God no other then Dioclesian the persecuting Emperour used commanding by Proclamation Alexander ab Alexandro That all should fall downe and kisse his feet And as for his feeding of Christs sheepe Nicholaus Clemang is a Doctor of Paris about 200 years since Clemang de corrupt Ecclesiae statu cap. 5 7. complained that the Pope Not contented with the fruits and profits of the Bishopricke of Rome and Saints Peters Patrimonie though very great and royall laid his greedy hands on other mens flocks replenished with milke and wooll and usurped the right of bestowing Bishopricks and livings Ecclesiasticall throughout all Christendome Cap. 13. he raised his Cardinals as complices of his Pompe from Clergy-men of low estate to the Peeres of Princes and inriched them with the dispensations to have and to hold offices and benefices not two or three or ten Cap. 14. or twenty but a hundred or two hundred yea sometimes foure hundred or five hundred or more and those not small or leane ones but even the best and fattest Nay more instead of feeding the lambes and sheepe of Christ Cap. 19 20. Hee filled the house of God with dumb dogs and evill beasts even from the highest Prelates to the basest hedge-Priests Cap. 3 4 5 9. and all to maintaine the pride and riot of his worldly state which he hath lifted up above Kings and Emperors and yet this man is Servus Servorum If this man therefore must carry himselfe a Servant as you pretend why doth hee take upon him to be Lord Paramount If hee be a servant who shall be his master that shall teach him obedience Your booke of Ceremonies tels us Liber Cerem 3. cap. 2. that The Pope himselfe giveth no manner of reverence to any man alive neither openly by standing up or by bowing downe or by uncovering his head Neither is hee a servant to the Emperour for as soone as he seeth the Pope he worshippeth him with bare head Idem l. 1. Sect. 5. c. 3. touching the ground with his knee Againe when he commeth to the foot of the Popes Throne hee kneeleth downe Last of all when hee commeth to the Popes feet hee kisseth them devoutly in the reverence of our Saviour This is a part oâ— the Emperors duty and the greatest Grandee upon earth must yield to this humble Servant of Servants This is that Servant of Servants that set the Imperiall crown upon the Emperors head Henry the sixt not with his hand but with his foot and casting it off againe with the same foot said I have power to make Emperors Celestinus 3 us and to unmake them againe at my pleasure Paschalis 2us This is that Servant of Servants that set up the Son of the Emperor Henry the fourth against his Father and dispossest him of his Kingdome Adrian 2us this is that Servant of Servants that did correct the Emperor Frederick for holding the left stirrop of his horse when hee should have held the right Clemens 5us luel pag. 379. This is that Servant of Servants that caused Franciscus Dandalus the Embassador of Venice to come before him tied in iron chains and to wallow under his Table with dogs whilst his Holinesse sate at supper This is that Servant of Servants Innocentius 3us who caused King Iohn to kneele downe at his Legates feet and offer up his crown into his hand Matth Paris pag. 844. This is that Servant of Servants that termed King Henry the third the eldest Son of King Iohn the Popes vassall and England his Iade To conclude by this Servant Rex superbiae the King of Pride Rex superbiae in foribus est Greg. l. 4 Ep. 38. which S. Gregory foretold in his dayes to be nigh at hand is now manifested to the world From the Popes Supremacie you proceed to the worship of Images and then you cry out Pag. 96. Here againe the Knight giveth more ample testimony of his notorious naughtie dealing Well what is this grievous accusation Why when he said the Heretikes had the picture of Christ made as they said by Pilat why I say could not hee have gone on with Irenaeus Thus you Let mee tell you I have omitted nothing materiall of your exceptions nor nothing in the Authors but if I should recite at large all the words of my Authors which either make for us or against you I should have wearied both my selfe and the Reader with impertinencies Let us goe on with Irenaeus they crowne them and propose them with the Images of the Philosophers of the world to wit Pythagoras Plato Aristotle and the rest and use such other observation towards them as the Gentiles doe Then you triumph before the conquest in a vaunting fashion Doth not this answer you Sir Humphrey Doe you not here find a difference betweene their worship and ours betweene Idolatry and Religion c. This is too too grosse for such a subtile Knight as you are To passe by your idle words I must tell you plainly this doth not answer mee For the Carpocratrans I confesse that as they worshipped the Images of Philosophers they were heathenish but as they worshipped the Images of Christ and his Apostles I say in that point of Idolatry they are your Predecessors But say you the Heretikes crowned the Philosophers Images It is true and so was Marcellina reckoned and detested as an Heretike by Irenaeus Epiphanius and Saint Austin for having the Images of Christ and Saint Paul in her Closet and setting Garlands on their heads and burning Incense to them Nay more Shee her selfe Aug. de Heres heres 7. saith Saint Austine was of Carpocrates Sect and worshipped the Images of Jesu Paul Homer and Pythagoras with bowing her selfe Epiph in 80 heres anaceph Idem lib. 1. heres 27. and burning Incense Epiphanius likewise chargeth the whole Sect of Carpocrates with the same fault The Heretikes called Gnostici besides all this have Images painted with colours and some of gold and silver which they say are the Images of Jesu and made in the time of Pontius Pilat when Christ was conversant