proceed rashly and peremptorily to censure others but left them to their liberty Did your Reformers imitate this manner of proceeding Did they censure no man much lesse any Church S. Cyprian belieued his owne Opinion to be true but belieued not that it was necessary and THEREFORE did not proceed rashly and peremptorily to censure others You belieue the points wherin Luther differs from vs not to be fundamentall or necessary and why do you not thence infer the like THEREFORE he should not haue proceeded to censure others In a word since their disagreement from vs concerned only points which were not fundamentall they should haue belieued that they might haue been deceaued as well as the whole visible Church which you say may erre in such points and therefore their doctrines being not certainely true and certainely not necessary they could not giue sufficient cause to depart from the Communion of the Church 42. In other places you write so much as may serue vs to proue that Luther and his followers ought to haue deposed and rectified their consciences As for example when you say When the Church (m) pag. 103. hath declared her selfe in any matter of opinion or of Rites her declaration obliges all her children to peace and externall obedience Nor is it fit or lawfull for any priuate man to oppose his iudgement to the publique as Luther and his fellowes did He may offer his opinion to be considered of so he do it with euidence or great probability of Scripture or reason and very modestly still contayning himselfe within the dutifull respect which he oweth but if he will factiously aduāce his own conceyts his owne conceyts and yet grounded vpō euidence of Scripture despise the Church so farre as to cut of her Communion he may be iustly branded and condemned for a Schismatique yea and an Heretique also in some degree in foro exteriori though his opinion were true and much more if it be false Could any man euen for a Fee haue spoken more home to condemne your Predecessors of Schisme or Heresy Could they haue stronger Motiues to oppose the doctrine of the Church and leaue her Communion then euidence of Scripture And yet according to your owne words they should haue answered and rectifyed their conscience by your doctrine that though their opinion were true and grounded vpon euidence of Scripture or reason yet it was not lawfull for any priuate man to oppose his iudgment to the publique which obligeth all Christians to peace and externall obedience and if they cast of the communion of the Church for maintayning their owne Conceits they may be branded for Schismatiques and Heretiques in some degree and in foro exteriori that is all other Christians ought so to esteeme of them and why then are we accounted vncharitable for iudging so of you and they also are obliged to behaue themselues in the face of all Christian Churches as if indeed they were not Reformers but Schismatiques and Heretiques or as Pagans and Publicans I thanke you for your ingenuous confession in recompence wherof I will do a deed of Charity by putting you in mind into what labyrinths you are brought by teaching that the Church may erre in some points of fayth and yet that it is not lawfull for any man to oppose his iudgment or leaue her Communion though he haue euidence of Scripture against her Will you haue such a man dissemble against his conscience or externally deny a truth knowne to be contained in holy Scripture How much more coherently do Catholiques proceed who belieue the vniuersall infallibility of the Church and from thence are assured that there can be no euidence of Scripture or reason against her definitions nor any iust cause to forsake her Cōmunion M. Hooker esteemed by many Protestants an incomparable man yields as much as we haue alledged out of you The will of God is sayth he to haue (n) In his Preface to his bookes of Ecclesiastical policy Sect. 6. pag. 28. them do whatsoeuer the sentence of iudiciall and finall docision shall determine yea though it seeme in their priuate opinion to swarue vtterly from that which is right Doth not this man tell Luther what the will of God was which he transgressing must of necessity be guilty of Schisme And must not M. Hooker either acknowledge the vniuersall infallibility of the Church or else driue men into the perplexities and labyrinths of distembling against their conscience wherof now I spake Not vnlike to this is your doctrine deliuered elsewhere Before the Nicene Councell say you many (o) pag. 131. good Catholique Bishops were of the same opinion with the Donatists that the Baptisme of Heretiques was ineffectuall and with the Nouatians that the Church ought not to absolue some grieuous sinners These errors therfore if they had gone no further were not in themselues Hereticall especially in the proper and most heauy or bitter sense of that word neither was it in the Churches intention or in her power to make them such by her declaration Her intention was to silence all disputes and to settle peace and Vnity in her gouernment to which all wise and peaceable men submitted whatsoeuer their opinion was And those factious people for their vnreasonable and vncharitable opposition were very iustly branded for Schismatiques For vs the Mistaker will neuer proue that we oppose any declaration of the Catholique Church c. and therfore he doth vniustly charge vs either with Schisme or Heresy These words manifestly condemne your Reformers who opposed the visible Church in many of her declarations Doctrines and Commaunds imposed vpon them for silencing all disputes and setling peace and Vnity in the gouernment and therfore they still remayning obstinately disobedient are iustly charged with Schisme and Heresy And it is to be obserued that you grant the Donatists to haue been very iustly branded for Schismatiques although their opposition against the Church did concerne as you hold a point not fundamentall to the Fayth and which according to S. Augustine cannot be proued out of Scripture alone and therfore either doth euidently conuince that the Church is vniuersally infallible euen in points not fundamentall or else that it is Schisme to oppose her declarations in those very things wherin she may erre and consequently that Luther and his fellowes were Schismatiques by opposing the visible Church for points not fundamentall though it were vntruly supposed that she erred in such points But by the way how come you on the suddaine to hold the determination of a Generall Councell of Nice to be the declaration of the Catholique Church seeing you teach That Generall Councels may erre euen fundamentally And do you now say with vs that to oppose the declaration of the Church is sufficient that one may be branded with Heresy which is a point so often impugned by you 43. It is therfore most euident that no pretended scruple of conscience could excuse Luther which he might and
Victor had excommunicated and so they came to be ranked among Heretiques vnder the name of Quartadecimam You may know what opinion S. Irenaeus had of Popes by these words Euery Church ought to haue recourse (h) Aduers Haeres lib. 3. cap. 3. to Rome by reason of her more powerfull Principality And euen in this your instance Eusebius doth only say that Irenaeus did fitly exhort Pope Victor that he should not cut off all the Churches of God which held this ancient Tradition Which exhortation doth necessarily imply that Pope Victor had Power to do it as I said already And now I pray you reflect vpon your precipitation in saying of Vactor and Stephen Their Censures (i) Pag. 50. were much sleighted and their Pride and Schisme in troubling the peace of the Church much condemned For they did nothing which was not approued by the vniuersall Church of God and the Doctrines which they condemned were no lesse then hereticall And therfore to answere also to what you obiect pag. 52. If the British and Scotish Bishops did adhere to the Churches of Asta in their Celebration of Easter after the matter was knowne to be defined by the Church their example can only be approued by such as your selfe nor can it either impeach the Authority or darken the proceeding of the Pope You cite Baronius (l) Aun 604. in the Margent who directly against you relates out of Bede that when our Apostle S. Augustine could neither by Arguments nor by Miracles wrought in their presence bow their stifnes he prophefied that they should perish by the English as afterwards it hapned But you are a fit Champion for such men and they no lesse fit examples to be alleaged against the Authority of the Roman Church 33. Your other example that S. Augustine and diuers other Bishops of Africa and their Successours for one hundred yeares together were senered from the Roman Communion is manifestly vntrue in S. Augustine and some other chiefe Bishops For when king Thrasimundus had banished into Sardinia almost all the Bishops to wit two hundred and twenty Pope Symmachus maintained them at his owne charges as persons belonging to his Communion To the Epistle of Boniface the second to Eulalius Bishop of Alexandria and the Epistle of Eulalius to the same Boniface recited by you out of which it is gathered that after the sixt Councell of Carthage for the space of one hundred yeares the Bishops of Carthage were separated from the Communion of the Roman Church that in the end they were reconciled to her Eulalius submitting himselfe to the Apostolique Sea and anathematizing his Predecessors Bellarmine (m) de Rom. Pont. l. 2. c. 25. answereth that these Epistles may iustly be suspected to be Apochryphall for diuers reasons which he alleageth and it seemeth also by your owne words that you do doubt of them For you say If their owne Records (n) Pag. 50 be true Yet if they be authenticall their meaning cannot be that all the Predecessors of Eulalius were for so long space diuided from the Roman Church the contrary being most manifest not only in S. Augustine who kept most strict amity with Zozimus Innocentius and Celestinus Popes but also in S. Fulgentius and others but it must be vnderstood only of some Bishops of Carthage and in particular of Eulalius himselfe till he being informed of the truth submitted himselfe to the Roman Church And you ought rather to haue alleaged his submission and condemnation of his Predecessors to proue the Popes Authority ouer the African Church then to obiect against it the example of some of his Predecessors of himselfe who afterward repented and condemned his owne fact You do well only to mention the Protensions and forgeries of the sea of Rome in the matter of Appeales For you may know that Bellarmine (o) Vbisup doth so fully answere that point as nothing can be more effectuall to proue the Popes Supremacy in Africa then the right of Appeales from Africa to Rome in causes of greater moment 34. Your last instance about three Chapters of the Councell of Chalcedon condemned by the fifth Generall Councell the Bishop of Rome at length consenting for which diuers Bishops of Italy and also the Bishops of Ireland did ioyntly depart from the Church of Rome is like to your former Obiections For Baronius whome you cite in your Margent hath these words as coÌ„trary to your purpose as may be Hence was it that the (q) Ann. 553. num 14. apud Spond Bishops of Venice the adicyning Regions did gathâ—â— together a Councell at Aquileia agaynst the Fifth Synode and the diuisions at length went as farre as â—reland for all these relying on the Decree of Vigilius Pope persuaded themselues that they might doe it Is this to depart from the Pope or the Roman Church to oppose that which he is thought to oppose formally because he is thought to oppose it Now as for the thing it selfe when Vigilius had afterward condeÌ„ned the three Chapters which at the first he refused to doe and had confirmed the fifth Councell which had coÌ„demned them whosoeuer opposed that Condemnation were accounted Schismatiques by the whole Catholique Church which plainly shewes the Popes Authority and therefore whatsoeuer Bishops had opposed Vigilius their example could proue no more then the faction of rebellious persons can preiudice the right of a lawfull King And in fine all this Controuersy did nothing concerne any matter of faith but only in fact and not doctrine but persons as may be seen at large in Baronius Neither was it betwixt Catholiques and Heretiques but among Catholiques themselues The rest of your Section needs no answere at all Only whereas you say Whosoeuer willfully opposeth (r) Pag. 57 any Catholique Verity maintayned by the Catholique Visible Church as doe Heretiques or peruersly diuides himselfe from the Catholique Communion as doe Schismatiques the Condition of both them is damnable What vnderstand you by Catholique verities of the Catholique Church Are not all Verityes mayntayned by the Catholique Church Catholique Verities or how do you now distinguish Heresy and Schisme from the Catholique Communion You tells vs pag. 76. that it is the property of Schisme to cut off from the Body of Christ and the hope of Saluation the Church from which it separats and is it not an Heresy to cut off from the Body of Christ hope of Saluation the Catholike Church How then can one according to your principles be a Schismatique from the Catholique Church not be iointly an Heretique CHAP. III. THE Protestants (a) Pag. 59. neuer intended to erect a new Church but to purge the Old The Reformation did not change the substaÌ„ce of Religion but only cleansed it from corrupt and impure Qualities Therfore say we the visible Church extaÌ„t before those your cleansing dayes had still hath the substance of Religion and so according to your owne ground we are safe if
his Sermon of the Vnity of the Catholique fayth grants Saluation to the Aethiopians who yet with Christian Baptisme ioyne CircuÌ„cision D. Potter (q) Pag. 113.114 cites the doctrine of some whome he termeth men of great learning and iudgement that all who professe to loue and honour IESVS-CHRIST are in the visible Christian Church and by Catholiques to be reputed Brethren One of these men of great learning and iudgment is Thomas Morton by D. Potter cited in his Margent whose loue honour to Iesus-Christ you may perceyue by his saying that the Churches of Arians who denyed our Sauiour Christ to be God are to be accounted the Church of God because they doe hold the foundation of the Ghospell Morton in his Treatise of the King dome of Israel pag. 94. which is Fayth in Iesus-Christ the Sonne of God and Sauiour of the world And which is more it seemeth by these charitable men that for being a member of the Church it is not necessary to belieue one only God For D. Potter (r) pag. 121. among the arguments to proue Hookers Mortons opinion brings this The people of the ten Tribes after their defection notwithstanding their grosse corruptions and Idolatry remained still a true Church We may also as it seemeth by these mens reasoning deny the Resurrection and yet be meÌ„bers of the true Church For a learned man sayth D. Potter (s) pag. 122. in behalfe of Hookers and Mortons opinion was anciently made a Bishop of the Catholique Church though he did professedly doubt of the last ResurrectioÌ„ of our bodies Deere Sautour What tymes doe we behold If one may be a member of the true Church and yet deny the Trinity of Persons the God head of our Sauiour the necessity of Baptisme if we may vse Circumcision and with the worship of God ioyne Idolatry wherin doe we differ from Turks and Iewes or rather are we not worse then eyther of them If they who deny our Sauiours diuinity might be accounted the Church of God how will they deny that fauour to those ancient Heretiques who denyed our Sauiours true humanity and so the totall deny all of Christ will not exclude one from being a member of the true Church S. Huary (t) CommeÌ„t in Matt. c. 16. maketh it of equall necessity for Saluation that we belieue our Sauiour to be true God and true Man saying This manner of Confession we are to hold that we remember him to be the Sonne of God and the Sonne of Man because the one without the other can giue no hope of Saluation And yet D. Potter sayth of the aforesayd doctrine of Hooker and Morton The (u) pag. 123. Reader may be pleased to approue or reiect it as he shall find cause And in another place (w) pag. 253. he sheweth so much good liking of this doctrine that he explicateth and proueth the Churches perpetuall Visibility by it And in the second Edition of his booke he is carefull to declare and illustrate it more at large then he had done before howsoeuer this sufficiently sheweth that they haue no certainty what points be fundamentall As for the Arians in particuler the Authour whome D. Potter cites for a moderate Catholike but is indeed a plaine Heretique or rather Atheist Lucian-like resting at all Religion placeth Arianisme among fundamentall errors But (x) A moderate examination c. ç. 1. paulo post initiuâ—â— contrarily an English Protestant Deuine masked vnder the name of Irenaeus Philalethes in a little Booke in Latin entituled Dissertatio de pace concordiae Ecclesiae endeauoureth to proue that euen the deniall of the blessed Trinity may stand with saluation Diuers Protestants haue taught that the Roman Church erreth in fundamentall points But D. Potter and others teach the contrary which could not happen if they could agree what be fundamentall points You brand the Donatists with the note of an Error in the matter (y) pag. 126 and nature of it properly hereticall because they taught that the Church remained only with them in the part of Donatus And yet many Protestants are so far from holding that Doctrine to be a fundamentall error that themselues goe further and say that for diuers ages before Luther there was no true visible Church at all It is then too too apparent that you haue no agreement in specifying what be fundamentall points neither haue you any meanes to determine what they be for if you haue any such meanes why do you not agree You tell vs the Creed containes all points fundamentall which although it were true yet you see it serues not to bring you to a particuler knowledge and agreement in such points And no wonder For besides what I haue said already in the beginning of this Chapter am to deliuer more at large in the next after so much labour and paperspent to proue that the Creed coÌ„taynes all fundamentall points you conclude It remaines (a) pag. 241. very probable that the Creed is the perfect Summary of those fundament all truths wherof consists the Vnity of fayth and of the Catholique Church Very probable Then according to all good Logick the contrary may remaine very probable and so all remaine as full of vncertainty as before The whole Rule say you the fol Iudge of your faith must be Scripture Scripture doth indeed deliuer diuine Truths but feldome doth qualify them or declare whether they be or be not absolutly necessary to saluation You fall (b) pag. 215 heauy vpon Charity Mistaken because he demands a particuler Catalogue of fundamental points which yet you are obliged in conscience to doe if you be able For without such a Catalogue no man can be assured whether or no he haue fayth sufficient to Saluation And therefore take it not in ill part if we agayne and agayne demand such a Catalogue And that you may see we proceed fairely I will performe on our behalfe what we request of you do heer deliuer a Catalogue wherein are comprized all points by vs taught to be necessary to Saluation in these wordes We are obliged vnder payne of damnation to belieue whatsoeuer the Catholique visible Church of Christ proposeth as renealed by Almighty God If any be of another mind all Catholiques denounce him to be no Catholique But inough of this And I go forward with the Infallibility of the Church in all points 20. For euen out of your owne doctrine that the Church cannot erre in points necessary to saluation any wise man will infer that it behooues all who haue care of their soules not to forsake her in any one point 1. Because they are assured that although her doctrine proued not to be true in some point yet euen according to D. Potter the error cannot be fundamentall nor destructiue of fayth and saluation neither can they be accused of any least imprudence in erring if it were possible with the vniuersall Church Secondly since she is vnder paine
backe nothing with your glosse needfull for our saluatiō is no proofe vnlesse you still beg the question and doe suppose that whatsoeuer the Apostles reuealed to the Church is contayned in the Creed And I wonder you do not reflect that those words were by S. Paul particularly directed to Pastors and Gouernours of the Church as is cleere by the other wordes He called the Ancients of the Church And afterward Take heed to your selues and to the whole flocke wherin the holy Ghost hath placed you Bishops to rule the Church And your selfe say that more knowledge is (e) pag. 244 necessary in Bishops and Priests to whom is committed the gouernment of the Church and the care of soules then in vulgar Laickes Do you thinke that the Apostles taught Christians nothing but their Creed Said they nothing of the Sacraments Cōmandments Duties of Hope Charity c 25. Vpon the same affected ambiguity is grounded your other obiection To say the whole fayth of those times (f) pag. 222.223 is not contained in the Apoles Creed is all one as if a man should say this is not the Apostles Creed but a part of it For the fayth of the Apostles is not all one with that which we commōly call their Creed Did not I pray you S. Mathew and S. Iohn belieue their writings to be Canonicall Scripture and yet their writinges are not mentioned in the Creed It is therfore more then cleere that the Fayth of the Apostles is of a larger extent then the Apostles Creed 26. To your demaund why amongst many things of equall necessity to be belieued the Apostles should (g) pag. 225. so distinctly set downe some and be altogether silent of others I answere That you must answere your owne demaund For in the Creed there be diuers points in their nature not fundamentall or necessary to be explicitely and distinctly belieued as aboue we shewed why are these points which are not fundamentall expressed rather then other of the same quality Why our Sauiours descent to Hell Buriall expressed and not his Circumcision his manifestation to the three Kings working of Miracles c Why did they not expresse Scriptures Sacraments and all fundamentall points of Fayth tending to practise as well as those which rest in beliefe Their intention was particularly to deliuer such Articles as were fittest for those times concerning the Deity Trinity and Messias as heretofore I haue declared leauing many things to be taught by the Catholique Church which in the Creed we all professe to belieue Neither doth it follow as you infer That as well nay better they might haue giuen no Article but that of the Church and sent vs to the Church for all the rest For in setting downe others besides that and not all they make vs belieue we haue all when (h) pag. 223. we haue not all For by this kind of arguing what may not be deduced One might quite contrary to your inference say If the Apostles Creed containe all points necessary to saluation what need we any Church to teach vs and consequently what need of the Article concerning the Church What need we the Creeds of Nice Constantinople c. Superfluous are your Catechisms wherin beside the Articles of the Creed you add diuers other particulars These would be poore consequences and so is yours But shall I tell you newes For so you are pleased to esteeme it We grant your inference thus far That our Sauiour Christ referred vs to his Church by her to be taught by her alone For she was before the Creed and Scriptures And she to discharge this imposed office of instructing vs hath deliuered vs the Creed but not it alone as if nothing els were to be belieued We haue besides it holy Scripture we haue vnwritten diuine Apostolicall Ecclesiasticall Traditions It were a childish argument The Creed containes not all things which are necessary to be belieued Ergo it is not profitable Or The Church alone is sufficient to teach vs by some conuenient meanes Ergo she must teach vs without all meanes without Creeds without Councels without Scripture c. If the Apostles had expressed no Article but that of the Catholique Church she must haue taught vs the other Articles in particular by Creeds or other meanes as in fact we haue euen the Apostles Creed from the Tradition of the Church If you will belieue you haue all in the Creed when you haue not all it is not the Apostles or the Church that makes you so belieue but it is your owne error wherby you will needs belieue that the Creed must containe all For neither the Apostles nor the Church nor the Creed it selfe tell you any such matter and what necessity is there that one meanes of instruction must inuolue whatsoeuer is contained in all the rest We are not to recite the Creed with anticipated perswasion that it must containe what we imagine it ought for better maintayning some opinions of our owne but we ought to say and belieue that it containes what we find in it of which one Article is to belieue the Catholique Church surely to be taught by her which presupposeth that we need other instruction beside the Creed and in particuler we may learne of her what points be contained in the Creed what otherwise and so we shall not be deceiued by belieuing we haue all in the Creed when we haue not all and you may in the same manner say As well nay better the Apostles might haue giuen vs no Articles at all as haue left out Articles tending to practise For in setting down one sort of articles not the other they make vs belieue we haue all whē we haue not all 27 To our argument that Baptisme is not contayned in the Creed D. Potter besides his answere that Sacraments belong rather to practise then fayth which I haue already confuted and which indeed maketh agaynst himselfe and serueth only to shew that the Apostles intended not to comprize all points in the Creed which we are bound to belieue adds that the Creed of (i) pag. 237. Nice expressed Baptisme by name confesse one Baptisme for the remissiō of Sinne Which answere is directly against himselfe and manifestly proues that Baptisme is an Article of fayth and yet is not contained in the Apostles Creed neyther explicitely nor by any necessary consequence from other Articles expressed therein If to make it an Article of fayth be sufficient that it is contayned in in the Nicene Councell he will find that Protestants maintayne many errours against faith as being repugnant to definitions of Generall Councels as in particuler that the very Councell of Nice which sayth M. Whitgift (k) In his defence pag. 330. is of all wise and learned men reuerenced esteemed imbraced next vnto the Scriptures themselues decreed that to those who were chosen to the Ministry vnmarryed it was not lawfull to take any wife afterward is affirmed by Protestants And
doe not separate themselues from the Society of the infected persons how do they free themselues depart from the common disease Do they at the same tyme remaine in the company and yet depart from those infected creatures We must then say that they separate themselues from the persons though it be by occasion of the disease Or if you say they free their owne persons frō the common disease yet so that they remaine still in the Company infected subiect to the Superiours and Gouernours thereof eating drinking keeping publique Assemblies with them you cannot but know that Luther and your Reformers the first pretended free persons from the supposed common infectiō of the Roman Church did not so for they endeauoured to force the Society whereof they were parts to be healed and reformed as they were and if it refused they did when they had forces driue them away euen their Superiours both spirituall and temporall as is notorious Or if they had not power to expell that supposed infected Community or Church of that place they departed from them corporally whome mentally they had forsaken before So that you cannot deny but Luther forsooke the external Cōmunion and Company of the Catholique Church for which as your selfe (z) Pag. 75. confesse There neyther was nor can be any iust cause no more then to depart from Christ himselfe We do therfore inferre that Luther and the rest who forsooke that visible Church which they found vpon earth were truly and properly Schismatiques 35. Moreouer it is euident that there was a diuision betweene Luther and that Church which was Visible when he arose but that Church cannot be sayed to haue deuided her selfe from him before whose tyme she was in comparison of whome she was a Whole and he but a part therefore we must say that he deuided himselfe went out of her which is to be a Schismatique or Heretique or both By this argument Optatus Meliuitanus proueth that not Caecilianus but Parmenianus was a Schismatique saying For Caecilianus went (a) Lib. 1. cont Parm. not out of Maiorinus thy Grandfather but Maiorinus from Caecilianus neyther did Caecilianus depart from the Chayre of Peter or Cyprian but Maiorinus in whose Chaire thou sittest which had no beginning before Maiorinus Since it manifestly appeareth that these things were acted in this manuer it is cleere that you are heyres both of the deliuerers vp of the holy Bible to be burned and also of Schismatiques The whole argument of this holy Father makes directly both against Luther and all those who continue the diuision which he begun and proues That going out conuinceth those who go out to be Scismatiques but not those from whome they depart That to forsake the Chaire of Peter is Schisme yea that it is Schisme to erect a Chaire which had no origen or as it were predecessour before it selfe That to continue in a diuision begun by others is to be Heires of Schismatiques and lastly that to depart from the Communion of a particuler Church as that of S. Cyprian was is sufficient to make a man incurre the guilt of Schisme and consequently that although Protestants who deny the Pope to be supreme Head of the Church do thinke by that Heresy to cleere Luther frō Schisme in disobeying the Pope Yet that will not serue to free him from Schisme as it importeth a diuision from the obedience or Communion of the particular Bishop Diocesse Church Countrey where he liued 36. But it is not the heresy of Protestants or any other Sectaries that can depriue S. Peter and his Successours of the authority which Christ our Lord conferred vpon them ouer his whole militant Church which is a point confessed by learned Protestants to be of great Antiquity and for which the iudgement of diuers most ancient holy Fathers is reproued by them as may be seen at large in Brereley (b) Tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 10. exactly citing the places of such chiefe Protestants And we must say with S. Cyprian Heresies (c) Epist. 55. haue sprung and Schismes been bred from no other cause then for that the Priest of God is not obeyed nor one Priest and Iudge is cōsidered to be for the time in the Church of God Which words do plainely condemne Luther whether he will vnderstand them as spoken of the Vniuersall or of euery particular Church For he withdrew himselfe both from the obedience of the Pope and of all particular Bishops and Churches And no lesse cleere is the sayd Optatus Meliuitanus saying Thou caust not deny (d) Lib 2. cont Parm. but that thou knowest that in the Citty of Rome there was first an Episcopall Chaire placed for Peter wherin Peter the head of all the Apost es sat wherof also he was called Cephas in which one Chaire Vnity was to be kept by all least the other Apostles might attribute to themselues ech one his particular Chaire and that he should be a Schismatique and sinner who against that one single Chaire should erect another Many other Authorities of Fathers might be alledged to this purpose which I omit my intention being not to handle particular controuersies 37. Now the arguments which hitherto I haue brought proue that Luther and his followers were Schismatiques without examining for as much as belonges to this point whether or no the Church can erre in any one thing great or small because it is vniuersally true that there can be no iust cause to forsake the Communion of the Visible Church of Christ according to S. Augustine saying It is not possible (e) Ep. 48. that any may haue iust cause to separate their Communion from the Communion of the whole world and call themselues the Church of Christ as if they had separated themselues from the Communion of all Nations vpon iust cause But since indeed the Church cannot erre in any one point of doctrine nor can approue any corruption in manners they cannot with any colour auoid the iust imputation of eminent Schisme according to the verdict of the same holy Father in these words The most manifest (f) De Bapt. Lib. 5. ç. 1. sacriledge of Schisme is eminent when there was no cause of separation 38. Lastly I proue that Protestants cannot auoid the note of Schisme at least by reason of their mutuall separation from one another For most certaine it is that there is very great difference for the outward face of a Church and profession of a different fayth between the Lutherans the rigid Caluinists and the Protestants of England So that if Luther were in the right those other Protestants who inuented Doctrines far different from his and diuided themselues from him must be reputed Schismatiques the like argument may proportionably be applied to their further diuisions and subdiuisions Which reason I yet vrge more strongly out of D Potter (g) pag. 20. who affirmes that to him to such as are conuicted in conscience of the
beg and yet he himselfe brake into heresy because he had been depriued by the Archbishop of Canterbury of a certaine Benefice as all Schismes heresies begin vpon passion which they seeke to couer with the cloake of Reformation Thirdly he condemned lawfull Oaths like the Anabaptists Fourthly he taught that all things came to passe by absolute necessity Fiftly he defended human merits as the wicked Pelagians did namely as proceeding from naturall forces without the necessary help of God's grace Sixtly that no man is a Ciuill Magistrate while he is in mortall sinne and that the people may at their pleasure correcÌ„t Princes when they offend by which doctrine he proues himselfe both an Heretique and a Traytour 53. As for Husse his chiefest Doctrines were That Lay people must receiue in both kinds and That Ciuill Lords Prelates and Bishops loose all right and authority while they are in mortall sinne For other things he wholy agreed with Catholiques against Protestants and the Bohemians his followers being demaunded in what points they disagreed from the Church of Rome propounded only these The necessity of Communion vnder both kinds That all ciuill Dominion was forbidden to the Clergy That Preaching of the word was free for all men and in all places That open Crimes were in nowise to be permitted for auoyding of greater euill By these particulars it is apparant that Husse agreed with Protestants against vs in one only point of both Kinds which according to Luther is a thing indifferent because he teacheth that Christ in this matter (q) In epist ad Bohemos commaunded nothing as necessary And he sayth further If thou come to a place (r) De vtr aâ—â— que specie Sacram. where one only kind is administred vse one kind only as others do Melancthon likewise holds it a thing (s) In Cent. epist. Theol. pag. 225. indifferent and the same is the opinion of some other Protestants All which considered it is cleer that Protestants cannot challenge the Waldenses Wicclifse and Husse for members of their Church although they could yet that would aduaÌ„tage them litle towards the finding out a perpetuall visible Church of theirs for the reasons aboue (t) Num. 49. specifyed 54. If D. Potter would go so farre off as to fetch the Muscouites Armenians Georgians Aethiopians or Abissines into his Church they would proue ouer deare bought For they eyther hold the damnable heresy of Eutiches or vse Circumcision or agree with the Greeke or Roman Church And it is most certayne that they haue nothing to do with the doctrine of Protestants 55. It being therefore granted that Christ had a visible Church in all ages and that there can be none assigned but the Church of Rome it followes that she is the true Cath. Church and that those pretended Corruptions for which they forsooke her are indeed diuine truths deliuered by the visible Catholique Church of Christ And that Luther and his followers departed from her and consequently are guily of Schisme by diuiding themselues from the Communion of the Roman Church Which is cleerely conuinced out of D. Potter himselfe although the Roman Church were but a particular Church For he sayth Whoseuer professes (u) Pag. 70. himselfe to forsake the Communion of any one meÌ„ber of the body of Christ must confesse himselfe consequently to forsake the whole Since therefore in the same place he expressely acknowledges the Church of Rome to be a member of the Body of Christ and that it is cleere they haue forsaken her it euidently followes that they haue forsaken the whole and therefore are most properly Schismatiques 56. And lastly since the crime of Schisme is so grieuous that according to the doctrine of holy Fathers rehearsed aboue no multitude of good workes no morall honesty of life no cruell death endured euen for the profession of some Article of faith can excuse any one who is guilty of that sinne from damnation I leaue it to be considered whether it be not true Charity to speake as we belieue and to belieue as all Antiquity hath taught vs That whosoeuer eyther beginnes or continues a diuision for the Roman Church which we haue proued to be Christs true Militant Church on earth cannot without effectuall repentance hope to be a meÌ„ber of his Triumphant Church in heauen And so I conclude with these words of blessed Saint Augustine It is common (w) Cont. Parm. lib. 2 â—ap 3. to all Heretiques to be vnable to see that thing which in the world is the most manifest and placed in the light of all Nations out of whose Vnity whatsoener they worke though they seeme to doe it with great care and diligence can no more auaile them against the wrath of God then the Spiders web agaynst the extremity of cold But now it is high tyme that we treat of the other sort of Diuision from the Church which is by Heresy CHAP. VI. That Luther and the rest of Protestants haue added Heresy vnto Schisme BECAVSE Vice is best knowne by the contrary Vertue we cannot well determine what Heresy is nor who be Heretiques but by the opposite vertue of Fayth whose Nature being once vnderstood as farre as belongs to our present purpose we shall passe on with ease to the definition of Heresy and so be able to discerne who be Heretiques And this Iâ—ntend to do not by entring into such particular Questions as are controuerted betweene Catholiques and Protestants but only by applying some generall grounds eyther already proued or els yielded to on all sides 2. Almighty God hauing ordayned Man to a supernaturall End of Beatitude by supernaturall meanes it was requisite that his Vnderstanding should be enabled to apprehend that End and Meanes by a supernaturall knowledge And because if such a knowledge were no more then probable it could not be able sufficiently to ouerbeare our Will encounter with human probabilities being backed with the streÌ„gth of flesh and bloud It was further necessary that this supernatural knowledge should be most certaine and infallible and that Fayth should belieue nothing more certainely then that it selfe is a most certaine Beliefe and so be able to beate downe all gay probabilities of humane Opinion And because the aforesayd Meanes and End of Beatificall Vision do farre exceed the reach of naturall wit the certainty of fayth could not alwayes be ioyned with such euidence of reason as is wont to be found in the Principles or Conclusions of humane naturall Sciences that so all flesh might not glory in the arme of flesh but that he who glories should glory (a) 2. Cor. 10 in our Lord. Moreouer it was expedient that our belife or assent to diuine truths should not only be vnknowne or ineuident by any humane discourse but that absolutely also it should be obscure in it selfe and ordinarily speaking be void euen of supernaturall euidence that so we might haue occasion to actuate and testifie the obedience which we owe to our
vniuersall Church She hath this (t) Cont. lit Petil. lib. 1. cap. 104. most certaine marke that she cannot be hidden She is then knowne to all Nations The Sect of Donatus is vnknown to many Nations therfore that cannot be she The Sect of Luther at least when he began and much more before his beginning was vnknowne to many Nations therfore that cannot be she 17. And that it may yet further appeare how perfectly Luther agreed with the Donatists It is to be noted that they neuer taught that the Catholique Church ought not to extend it selfe further then that part of Africa where their faction raigned but only that in fact it was so confined because all the rest of the Church was prophaned by communicating with Caecilianus whom they falsly affirmed to haue been ordained Bishop by those who were Traditours or giuers vp of the Bible to the Persecutors to be burned yea at that very time they had some of their Sect residing in Rome and sent thither one Victor a Bishop vnder colour to take care of their Brethren in that Citty but indeed as Baronius (u) Anno 321. nu 2. Spond obserueth that the world might account them Catholiques by communicating with the Bishop of Rome to communicate with whom was euen taken by the Ancient Fathers as an assured signe of being a true Catholique They had also as S. Augustine witnesseth a pretended (w) De Vni Eccles c. 3. Church in the howse and territory of a Spanish Lady called Lucilla who went flying out of the Catholique Church because she had been iustly checked by Caectlianus And the same Saint speaking of the conference he had with Fortunius the Donatist sayth Heere did he first (x) Ep. 163. attempt to affirme that his Communion was spread ouer the whole Earth c. but because the thing was euidently false they got out of this discourse by confusion of language wherby neuertheles they sufficiently declared that they did not hold that the true Church ought necessarily to be confined to one place but only by meere necessity were forced to yield that it was so in fact because their Sect which they held to be the only true Church was not spread ouer the world In which point Fortunius and the rest were more modest then he who should affirme that Luther's reformation in the very beginning was spead ouer the whole Earth being at that time by many degrees not so far diffused as the Sect of the Donatists I haue no desire to prosecute the similitude of Protestants with Donatists by remembring that the Sect of these men was began and promoted by the passion of Lucilla and who is ignorant what influence two women the Mother and Daughter ministred to Protestancy in England Nor will I stand to obserue their very likenes of phrase with the Donatists who called the Chaire of Rome the Chaire of pestilence and the Roman Church an Harlot which is D. Potter's owne phrase wherin he is lesse excusable then they because he maintaineth her to be a true Church of Christ therfore let him duely ponder these words of S. Augustine against the Donatists If I persecute him iustly who detracts (y) Conc. super gest cust Emeriâ— from his Neighbour why should I not persecute him who detracts from the Church of Christ and sayth this is not she but this is an Harlot And least of all will I consider whether you may not be well compared to one Ticonius a Donatist who wrote against Parmenianus likewise a Donatist who blasphemed that the Church of Christ had perished as you do euen in this your Booke write against some of your Protestant Brethren or as you call them Zelots among you who hold the very same or rather a worse Heresy and yet remained among them euen after Parmenianus had excommunicated him as those your Zealous Brethren would proceed agaynst you if it were in their power and yet like Ticonius you remaine in their Communion and come not into that Church which is hath been and shall euer be vniuersall For which very cause S. Augustin complaines of Ticonius that although he wrote against the Donatists yet he was of an hart (z) De doctr Christ lib. 3. cap. 30. so extremely absurd as not to forsake them alto gether And speaking of the same thing in another place he obserues that although Ticonius did manifestly confute them who affirmed that the Church had perished yet he saw not sayth this holy Father that which in good consequence (a) Cont. Parm. l. 1. cap. 1. he should haue seene that those Christians of Africa belonged to the Church spread ouer the whole world who remained vnited not with them who were diuided from the communion and vnity of the same world but with such as did communicate with the whole world But Parmenianus and the rest of the Donatists saw that consequence and resolued rather to settle their mind in obstinacy against the most manifest truth which Ticonius maintained then by yielding therto to be ouercome by those Churches in Africa which enioyed the communion of that vnity which Ticonius defended from which they had diuided themselues How fitly these words agree to Catholiques in England in respect of the Protestants I desire the Reader to consider But these and the like resemblances of Protestants to the Donatistes I willingly let passe and onely vrge the maine point That since Luthers Reformed Church was not in being for diuers Centuries before Luther and yet was because so forsooth they will needs haue it in the Apostles time they must of necessity affirme heretically with the Donatists that the true and vnspotted Church of Christ perished that she which remained on earth was O blasphemy an Harlot Moreouer the same heresy followes out of the doctrine of D. Potter and other Protestants that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall because we haue shewed that euery errour against any one reuealed truth is Heresy and damnable whether the matter be otherwise of it selfe great or small And how can the Church more truly be sayd to perish then when she is permitted to maintaine a damnable Heresy Besides we will heereafter proue that by any act of Heresy all diuine fayth is lost to imagine a true Church of faithfull persons without any fayth is as much as to fancy a liuing man without life It is therefore cleere that Donatist-like they hold that the Church of Christ perished yea they are worse then the Donatists who said that the Church remained at least in Africa whereas Protestants must of necessity be forced to grant that for a long space before Luther she was no where at all But let vs goe forward to other reasons 18. The holy Scripture and Ancient Fathers do assigne Separation from the Visible Church as a marke of Heresy according to that of S. Iohn They went out (b) 2. Ioan 19. from vs. And Some who (c) Act. 15.24 went out from
vs. And Our of you shall (d) Act. 203.30 arise men speaking peruerse things And accordingly Vincentius Lyrinensis sayth Who euer (e) Lib. ad uersus haer cap. 34. began heresies who did not first separate himselfe from the Vniuersality Antiquity and Consent of the Catholique Church But it is manifest that when Luther appeared there was no visible Church distinct from the Roman out of which she could depart as it is likewise well knowne that Luther his followers departed out of her Therfore she is no way lyable to this Marke of Heresy but Protestants cannot possibly auoid it To this purpose S. Prosper hath these pithy words A Christian communicating (f) Dimid temp cap. 5. with the vniuersall Church is a Catholique and he who is diuided from her is an Heretique and Antichrist But Luther in his first Reformation could not communicate with the visible Catholique Church of those times because he began his Reformation by opposing the supposed Errors of the then visible Church we must therfore say with S. Prosper that he was an Heretique c. Which likewise is no lesse cleerly proued out of S. Cyprian saying Not we (g) Lib. de Vnit Ecles departed from them but they from vs and since Heresies and Schismes are bred afterwards while they make to themselues diuers Conuenticles they haue forsaken the head and origen of Truth 19 And that we might not remaine doubtfull what separation it is which is the marke of Heresy the ancient Fathers tel vs more in particular that it is from the Church of Rome as it is the Sea of Peter And therfore D. Potter need not to be so hot with vs because we say writ that the Church of Rome in that sense as she is the Mother Church of all others and with which all the rest agree is truly callled the Catholique Church S. Hierome writing to Pope Damasus sayth I am in the Communion (h) Ep. 57. ad Damas of the Chayre of Peter I know that the Church is built vpon that Rocke Whoseuer shall eate the LaÌ„be out of this house he is profane If any shall not be in the Arke of Noe he shall perish in the tyme of the deluge Whosoeuer doth not gather with thee doth scatter that is he that is not of Christ is of Antichrist And els where 's Which doth he (i) Lib. 1. Apolog call his fayth That of the Roman Church Or that which is contained in the Bookes of Origen If he answere the Roman then we are Catholiques who haue translated nothing of the error of Origen And yet further Know thou that the (k) Ibid. lib. 3. Roman fayth commended by the voyce of the Apostle doth not receiue these delusions though an Angell should denounce otherwise then it hath once been preached S. Ambrose recounting how his Brother Satyrus inquiring for a Church wherin to giue thanks for his deliuery from Shipwrack sayth he called vnto him (l) De obitu Satyris fratri the Bishop neither did he esteeme any fauour to be true except that of the true fayth and he asked of him whether he agreed with the Catholique Bishops that is with the Roman Church And hauing vnderstood that he was a Schismatique that is separated from the Roman Church he abstained from communicating with him Where we see the priuiledge of the Roman Church confirmed both by word and deed by doctrine and practise And the same Saint sayth of the Roman Church From thence the Rights (m) lib. 1. ep 4. ad Jmperatores of Venerable Communion do flow to all S. Cyprian sayth They are bold (n) Epist. 55. ad Cornel. to saile to the Chaire of Peter and to the principall Church from whence Priestly Vnity hath sprung Neither do they consider that they are Romans whose Fayth was commended by the preaching of the Apostle to whom falshood cannot haue accesse Where we see this holy Father ioynes together the principall Church and the Chaire of Peter and affirmeth that falshood not only hath not had but cannot haue accesse to that Sea And else where Thou wrotest that I should send (o) Epist 52. a Coppy of the same letters to Cornelius our Collegue that laying aside all solicitude he might now be assured that thou didst Communicate with him that is with the Catholique Church What thinke you M. Doctor of these words Is it so strang a thing to take for one and the same thing to communicate with the Church Pope of Rome and to communicate with the Catholique Church S. Irenaeus sayth Because it were long to number the successions of all Churches (p) Lib. 3. çont haer c. 3. we declaring the Tradition and fayth preached to men and comming to vs by Tradition of the most great most ancient and most knowne Church founded by the two most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul which Tradition it hath from the Apostles comming to vs by succession of Bishops We confound all those who any way either by cuill complacence of themselues or vaine glory or by blindnes or ill Opinion do gather otherwise then they ought For to this Church for a more powerfull Principality it is necessary that all Churches resort that is all faythfull people of what place soeuer in which Roman Church the Tradition which is from the Apostles hath alwayes been conserued from those who are euery where S. Augustin sayth It griâ—â—ues vs (q) In psal cont partâ—â—n Donati to see you so to ly cut off Number the Priest euen from the Sea of Peter and consider in that order of Fathers who succeeded to whome She is the Rook which the proud Gates of Hell do not ouâ—rcome And in another place speaking of Cacilianu he sayth He might contemne the conspiring (r) Ep. 162. multitude of his Enemies because he knew himselfe to be vnited by Communicatory letters both to the Roman Church in which the Principality of the Sea Apostolique did alwayes florish and to other Countreys from whence the Gospell came first into Africa Ancient Tertullian sayth If thou be neere Italy thou hast Rome whose (s) Praeser cap. 36. Authority is neere at hand to vs a happy Church into which the Apostles haue powred all Doctrine together with their bloud S. Basill in a letter to the Bishop of Rome sayth In very deed that which was giuen (t) Epist. ad Pont. Rom. by our Lord to thy Piety is worthy of that most excellent voyce which proclaymed thee Blessed to wit that thou maist discerne betwixt that which is counterfeit and that which is lawfull and pure and without any diminution mayest preach the Fayth of our Ancestors Maximianus Bishop of Constantinople about twelue hundred yeares agoe said All the bounds of the earth who haue sincerely acknowledged our Lord and Catholiques through the whole world professing the true Faith looke vpon the power of the Bishop of Rome as vpon the sunne c. For the Creator of the
world amongst all men of the world elected him he speakes of S. Peter to whom he granted the Chaire of Doctour to be principally possessed by a perpetuall right of Priuiledge that whosoeuer is desirous to know any diuine and profound thing may haue recourse to the Oracle and Doctrine of this instruction Iohn Patriarck of Constantinople more then eleauen hundred yeares agoe in an Epistle to Pope Hormisda writeth thus Because (u) Epist ad Hormis PP the beginning of saluation is to conserue the rule of right Fayth in no wise to swarue from the tradition of our for-Fathers because the words of our Lord cannot faile saying Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke I will build my Church the proofes of deeds haue made good those words because in the Sea Apostolicall the Catholique Religion is alwayes conserued inuiolable And againe We promise heerafter not to recite in the sacred Mysteries the names of them who are excluded from the Communion of the Catholique Church that is to say who consent not fully with the Sea Apostolique Many other Authorities of the ancient Fathers might be produced to this purpose but these may serue to shew that both the Latin Greeke Fathers held for a Note of being a Catholique or an Heretique to haue been vnited or diuided from the Sea of Rome And I haue purposely alledged only such Authorities of Fathers as speake of the priuiledges of the Sea of Rome as of things permament and depending on our Sauiours promise to S. Peter from which a generall rule and ground ought to be taken for all Ages because Heauen and Earth shall (w) Matt. 24.35 passe but the word of our Lord shall remaine for euer So that I heere conclude that seing it is manifest that Luther and his followers diuided themselues from the Sea of Rome they beare the inseparable Marke of Heresy 20. And though my meaning be not to treate the point of Ordination or Succession in the Protestants Church because the Fathers alledged in the last reason assigne Succession as one marke of the true Church I must not omit to say that according to the grounds of Protestants themselues they can neyther pretend personall Succession of Bishops nor Succession of doctrine For whereas Succession of Bishops signifies a neuer-interrupted line of Persons endued with an indeleble Quality which Deuines call a Character which caÌ„not be taken away by deposition degradation or other meanes whatsoeuer and endued also with Iurisdiction and Authority to teach to preach to gouerne the Church by lawes precepts censures c. ProtestaÌ„ts cannot pretend SuccessioÌ„ in either of these For besids that there was neuer Protestant Bishop before Luther and that there can be no continuance of Succession where there was no beginning to succeed they coÌ„monly acknowledge no Character consequently must affirme that when their pretended Bishops or Priests are depriued of Iurisdiction or degraded they remaine meere lay Persons as before their Ordination fulfilling what Tertâ—â—â—lian obiects as a marke of Heresy To day a Priest to morrow (x) Praeser çap. 41. a Lay-man For if there be no immoueable Character their power of Order must consist onely in Iurisdiction and authority or in a kind of morall deputation to some function which therefore may be taken away by the same power by which it was giuen Neither can they pretend Succcession in Authority or Iurisdiction For all the Authority or Iurisdiction which they had was conferred by the Church of Rome that is by the Pope Because the whole Church collectiuely doth not meet to ordayne Bishops or Priests or to giue them Authority But according to their owne doctrine they belieue that the Pope neyther hath or ought to haue any Iurisdiction Power Superiority Preheminence or Authority Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme which they sweare euen when they are ordained Bishops Priests and Deacons How then can the Pope giue Iurisdiction where they sweare he neyther hath nor OVGHT to haue any Or if yet he had how could they without Schisme withdraw themselues from his obedience Besides the Roman Church neuer gaue them Authority to oppose Her by whome it was giuen But grant their first Bishops had such Authority from the Church of Rome after the decease of those men who gaue Authority to their pretended Successours The Primate of England But from whome had he such Authority And after his decease who shall conferre Authority vpon his Successours The temporall Magistrate King Henry neyther a Catholique nor a Protestant King Edward a Child Queene Elizabeth a Woman An Infant of one houres Age is true King in case of his Predecessours decease But shal your Church lye fallow till that Infant-King and greene Head of the Church come to yeares of discretion Doe your Bishops your Hierarchy your Succession your Sacraments your being or not being Heretiques for want of Succession depeÌ„d on this new-found Supremacy-doctrine brought in by such a man meerely vpon base occasions and for shamefull ends impugned by Caluin and his followers derided by the Christian world euen by chiefe Protestants as D. Andrewes Wotton c. not held for any necessary point of fayth And from whome I pray you had Bishops their Authority when there were no Christian Kinges Must the Greeke Patriarks receiue spirituall Iurisdiction from the Greeke Turke Did the Pope by the Baptisme of Princes loose the spirituall Power he formerly had of conferring spirituall Iurisdiction vpon Bishops Hath the temporall Magistrate authority to preach to assoile from sinnes to inflict excommunications and other Censures Why hath he not Power to excommunicate as well as to dispense in Irregularity as our late Soueraigne Lord King Iames either dispensed with the late Archbishop of Canterbury or els gaue commission to some Bishops to doe â—t and since they were subiect to their Primate and not he to them it is cleere that they had no Power to dispense with him but that power must proceed from the Prince as Superiour to them all and head of the Protestants Church in England If he haue no such authority how can he giue to others what himselfe hath not Your Ordination or Consecration of Bishops and Priests imprinting no Character can only consist in giuing a Power Authority Iurisdiction or as I said before some kind of Deputation to exercise Episcopall or Priestly functions If then the temporall Magistrate confers this Power c. he can nay he cannot chuse but Ordaine and consecrate Bishops and Priests as often as he confers Authority or Jurisdiction and your Bishops as soone as they are designed and confirmed by the King must ipso faclo be Ordained and Consecrated by him without interuention of Bishops or Matter and Forme of Ordination Which absurdities you will be more vnwilling to grant then well able to auoid if you will be true to your owne doctrines The Pope from whom originally you must beg your Succession of Bishops neuer receiued nor will nor can acknowledge to
receiue any Spirituall Iurisdiction from any Temporall Prince and therfore if Iurisdiction must be deriued from Princes he hath none at all and yet either you must acknowledge that he hath true spirituall Iurisdiction or that your Selues can receiue none from him 21. Moreouer this new Reformation or Reformed Church of Protestants will by them be pretended to be Catholique or Vniuersall and not confined to England alone as the Sect of the Donatists was to Africa and therfore it must comprehend all the Reformed Churches in Germany Holland Scotland France c. In which number they of Germany Holland and France are not gouerned by Bishops nor regard any personall Successiō vnles of such fat-beneficed Bishops as Nicolaus Amsfordius who was consecrated by Luther though Luther himselfe was neuer Bishop as witnesseth (y) In Millenario sexto pag. 187. Dresserus And though Scotland hath of late admitted some Bishops I much doubt whether they hold them to be necessary or of diuine Institution and so their enforced admitting of them doth not so much furnish that kingdome with personall Succession of Bishops as it doth conuince them to want Succession of Doctrine since in this their neglect of Bishops they disagree both from the milder Protestants of England and the true Catholique Church And by this want of a cōtinued personall Succession of Bishops they retaine the note of Schisme Heresy So that the Church of Protestants must either not be vniuersall as being confined to England Or if you will needs comprehend all those Churches which want Succession you must confesse that your Church doth not only communicate with Schismaticall and Hereticall Churches but is also compounded of such Churches your selues cannot auoid the note of Schismatiques or Heretiques if it were but for participating with such hereticall Churches For it is impossible to retaine Communion with the true Catholique Church and yet agree with them who are diuided from her by Schisme or Heresy because that were to affirme that for the selfe same time they could be within and without the Catholique Church as proportionably I discoursed in the next precedent Chapter concerning the Communicating of moderate Protestants with those who maintaine that Heresy of the Latency and Inuisibility of Gods Church where I brought a place of S. Cyprian to this purpose which the Reader may be pleased to reuiew in the Fifth Chapter and 17. Number 22. But besides this defect in the personall Succession of Protestant Bishops there is another of great moment which is that they wāt the right Forme of ordaining Bishops and Priests because the manner which they vse is so much different from that of the Roman Church at least according to the common opinion of Deuines that it cannot be sufficient for the Essence of Ordination as I could demonstrate if this were the proper place of such a Treatise and will not fayle to doe if D. Potter giue me occasion In the meane time the Reader may be pleased to read the Authour (z) See Adamum Tānerum tom 4. disp 7. quaest 2. dub 3. 4. cited heere in the margent then compare the forme of our Ordination with that of Protestants and to remēber that if the forme which they vse eyther in Consecrating Bishops or in Ordayning Priests be at least doubtfull they can neyther haue vndoubted Priests nor Bishops For Priests cannot be ordayned but by true Bishops nor can any be a true Bishop vnles he first be Priest I say their Ordination is at least doubtfull because that sufficeth for my present purpose For Bishops and Priests whose Ordination is notoriously knowne to be but doubtfull are not to be esteemed Bishops or Priests and no man without Sacriledge can receiue Sacraments from them all which they administer vnlawfully And if we except Baptisme with manifest danger of inualidity and with obligation to be at least conditionally repeated so Protestants must remaine doubtfull of Remission of sinnes of their Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy and may not pretend to be a true Church which cannot subsist without vndoubted true Bishops and Priests nor without due administration of Sacraments which according to Protestants is an essentiall note of the true Church And it is a world to obserue the proceeding of English Protestants in this point of their Ordinations For first Ann. 3. Edw. 6. cap. 2. when he was a Child about twelue yeares of age It was enacted that such (a) Dyer fol 234. term Mich. 6. 7. Eliz. forme of making and consecrating of Bishops and Priests as by six Prelates and six other to be appointed by the King should be deuised marke this word deuised and set forth vnder the great Seale should be vsed and none other But after this Act was repealed 1. Mar. Sess 2. in so much as that when afterward An. 6. 7. Reg. Eliz. Bishop Bonner being endicted vpon a certifitate made by D. Horne a Protestant Bishop of Winchester for his refusal of the Oath of Supremacy and he excepting agaynst the endictment because D. Horne was no Bishop all the Iudges resolued that his exceptiō was good if indeed D. Horne was not Bishop and they were all at a stand till An. 8. Eliz. cap. 1. the act of Edw. 6. was renewed and confirmed with a particular prouiso that no man should be impeched or molested by meanes of any certificate by any Bishop or Archbishop made before this last Act. Whereby it is cleere that they made some doubt of their owne ordination and that there is nothing but vncertainty in the whole busines of their Ordination which forsooth must depend vpon six Prelats the great Seale Acts of Parlaments being contrary one to another and the like 23. But though they want Personall Succession yet at least they haue Succession of doctrine as they say pretend to proue because they belieue as the Apostles belieued This is to begg the Question and to take what they may be sure will neuer be graunted For if they want Personall Succession and sleight Ecclesiasticall Tradition how will they perswade any man that they agree with the doctrine of the Apostles We haue heard Tertullian saying I will prescribe (b) Sup. 〈…〉 against all Heretiques that there is no meanes to proue what the Apostles preached but by the same Churches which they founded And S. Irenaeus tels vs that We may (c) L. 3. 〈…〉 behold the Tradition of the Apostles in euery Church if men be desirous to beare the truth and we can number them who were made Bishops by the Apostles in Churches and their Successors euen to vs. And the same Father in another place sayth We ought to obey (d) L. 4. 〈◊〉 43. those Priests who are in the Church who haue Succession from the Apostles and who together with Succession in their Bishoprickes haue receiued the certaine guift of truth S. Augustin sayth I am kept in the Church (e) Contr. epist. Fundam cap. 4. by the Succession of Priests from the
very Sea of Peter the Apostle to whom our Sauiour after his Resurrection committed his Sheep to be fed euen to the present Bishop Origen to this purpose giueth vs a good and wholesome Rule happy if himselfe had followed the same in these excellent words Since there be many who thinke (f) Praef. ad lib. Periâ—â—â—chon they belieue the things which are of Christ and some are of different opinion from those who went before them let the preaching of the Church be kept which is deliuered by the Apostles by order of Succession and remaines in the Church to this very day that only is to be belieued for truth which in nothing disagrees from the Tradition of the Church In vaine then do these men brag of the doctrine of the Apostles vnles first they can demonstrate that they enioy a continued Succession of Bishops from the Apostles and can shew vs a Church which according to S. Augustin is deduced by vndoubted SVCCESSION from the Sea (g) Cont. Faust cap. 2 of the Apostles euen to the present Bishops 23. But yet neuerthelesse suppose it were granted that they agreed with the doctrine of the Apostles this were not sufficient to proue a Succession in Doctrine For Succession besides agreement or similitude doth also require a neuer-interrupted conueying of such doctrine from the time of the Apostles till the dayes of those persons who challenge such a Succession And so S. Augustine sayth We are to belieue that Gospell which from the time of the Apostles the (h) Lib. 28. cout Faust. â— 2. Church hath brought downe to our dayes by a neuer-interrupted course of times and by vndoubted succession of connection Now that the Reformation begun by Luther was interrupted for diuers Ages before him is manifest out of History and by his endeauouring a Reformation which must presuppose abuses He cannot therfore pretend a continued Succession of that Doctrine which he sought to reuiue and reduce to the knowledge and practise of men And they ought not to proue that they haue Succession of doctrine because they agree with the doctrine of the Apostles but contrarily we must infer that they agree not with the Apostles because they cannot pretend a neuer-interrupted Succession of doctrine from the times of the Apostles till Luther And heere it is not amisse to note that although the Waldenses Wicliffe c. had agreed with Protestants in all points of doctrine yet they could not brag of Succession from them because their doctrine hath not beene free from interruption which necessarily crosseth Succession 24. And as Want of Succession of Persons and Doctrine cannot stand with that Vniuersality of Time which is inseparable from the Catholique Church so likewise the disagreeing Sects which are dispersed throughout diuers Countreys and Nations cannot help towards that Vniacrsality of Place wherwith the true Church must be endued but rather such locall multiplication doth more and more lay open their diuision and want of Succession in Doctrine For the excellent Obseruation of S. Augustine doth punctually agree with all moderne Heretiques wherein this holy Father hauing cited these words out of the Prophet Ezechiel (i) Cap. 24. My flockes are dispersed vpon the whole face of the Earth he adds this remarkable sentence Not all Heretiques (k) Lib. de Pastorib c. 8. are spred ouer the face of the Earth and yet there are Heretiques spred ouer the whole face of the Earth some heere some there yet they are wanting in no place they know not one another One Sect for example in Africa another Heresy in the East another in Egypt another in Mesopotamia In diuers places they are diuers one Mother Pride hath begot them all as our one Mother the Catholique Church hath brought forth all faithfull people dispersed throughout the whole world No wonder then if Pride breed Dissention and Charity Vnion And in another place applying to Heretiques those words of the Canticles If thou know not (l) Cant. 1. thy selfe goe forth and follow after the steps of the flocks and feed thy kids he sayth If thou know not thy selfe goe (m) Ep. 48. thou forth I do not cast thee out but goe thou out that it may be said of thee They went from vs but they were not of vs. Goe thou out in the steps of the flocks not in my steps but in the steps of the flocks nor of one flocke but of diuers and wandring flocks And feed thy Kids not as Peter to whom is said Feed my sheep but feed thy Kids in the Tabernacles of the Pastors not in the Tabernacle of the Pastor where there is One flock and one Pastor In which words this holy Father doth set downe the Markes of Heresy to wit going out from the Church and Want of Vnity among themselues which proceed from not acknowledging one supreme Visible Pastor and Head vnder Christ And so it being proued that Protestants hauing neither succession of Persons nor Doctrine nor Vniuersality of Time or Place cannot auoid the iust note of Heresy 25. Hitherto we haue brought arguments to proue that Luther and all Protestants are guilty of Heresy against the Negatiue Precept of fayth which obligeth vs vnder paine of damnation not to imbrace any one error contrary to any truth sufficiently propounded as testified or reuealed by Almighty God Which were inough to make good that among Persons who disagree in any one point of fayth one part only can be saued Yet we will now proue that whosoeuer erreth in any one point doth also breake the Affirmatiue Precept of Fayth wherby we are obliged positiuely to belieue some reuealed truth with an infallible and supernaturall Fayth which is necessary to saluation euen necessitate finis or medij as Deuines speake that is so necessary that not any after he is come to the vse of Reason was or can be saued without it according to the words of the Apostle Without Fayth (n) Hebr. 11.6 it is impossible to please God 26. In the beginning of this Chapter I shewed that to Christian Catholique fayth are required Certainty Obscurity Prudence and Supernaturality All which Conditions we will proue to be wanting in the beliefe of Protestants euen in those points which are true in themselues and to which they yield assent as hapneth in all those particulars wherin they agree with vs from whence it will follow that they wanting true Diuine Fayth want meanes absolutely necessary to saluation 27. And first The fayth of Protestants wanteth Certainty that their beliefe wanteth Certainty I proue because they denying the Vniuersall infallibility of the Church can haue no certaine ground to know what Obiects are reuealed or testifyed by God Holy Scripture is in it selfe most true and infallible but-without the direction declaration of the Church we can neyther haue certaine meanes to know what Scripture is Canonicall nor what Translations be faythfull nor what is the true meaning of Scripture Euery Protestant as I suppose
light but rather his vnderstanding is by a necessity made captiue and forced not to disbelieued what is presented by so cleere a light And therefore your imaginary fayth is not the true fayth defined by the Apostle but an inuention of your owne 31. That the fayth of Protestants wanteth the third Condition which was Prudence Their faith wants Prudence is deduced from all that hitherto hath beene sayd What wisdome was it to forsake a Church cōfessedly very ancient and besids which there could be demonstrated no other visible Church of Christ vpon earth A Church acknowledged to want nothing necessary to Saluatiō endued with Succession of Bishops with Visibility and Vniuersality of Tyme and Place A Church which if it be not the true Church her enemies cannot pretend to haue any Church Ordination Scriptures Succession c. and are forced for their owne sake to maintaine her perpetuall Existence and Being To leaue I say such a Church frame a Community without eyther Vnity or meanes to procure it a Church which at Luthers first reuolt had no larger extent then where his body was A Church without Vniuersality of place or Tyme A Church which can pretend no Visibility or Being except only in that former Church which it opposeth A Church void of Succession of Persons or Doctrine What wisdome was it to follow such men as Luther in an opposition against the visible Church of Christ begun vpon meere passion What wisdome is it to receiue from Vs a Church Ordination Scriptures Personall Succession and not Succession of Doctrine Is not this to verify the name of Heresy which signifieth Election or Choyce Wherby they cannot auoid that note of Imprudency or as S. Augustine cals it Foolishnes set downe by him against the Manichees and by me recited before I would not sayth he belieue (r) Cont. ep Fund ç. 5. the Gospell vnles the Authority of the Church did moue me Those therfore whom I obeyed saying Belieue the Gospell why should I not obey the same men saying to me Do not belieue Manichaeus Luther Caluin c. Chuse what thou pleasest If thou say Belieue the Catholiques they warne me not to belieue thee Wherfore if I belieue them I cannot belieue thee If thou say Do not belieue the Catholiques thou shalt not do well in forcing me to the fayth of Manichaeus because by the Preaching of Catholiques I belieued the Gospell it selfe If thou say you did well to belieue them Catholiques commending the Gospell but you did not well to belieue them discommending Manichaeus dost thou thinke me so very FOOLISH that without any reason at all I should belieue what thou wilt and not belieue what thou wilt not Nay this holy Father is not content to call it Foolishnes but meere Madnes in these words Why should I not most diligently enquire (s) Lib. de vtil Cred. ç. 14. what Christ commaunded of those before all others by whose Authority I was moued to belieue that Christ commaunded any good thing Canst thou better declare to me what he said whom I would not haue thought to haue been or to be if the Beliefe therof had been recommended by thee to me This therfore I belieued by fame strengthned with Celebrity Consent Antiquity But euery one may see that you so few so turbulent so new can produce nothing which deserues Authority What MADNES is this Belieue them Catholiques that we ought to belieue Christ but learne of vs what Christ said Why I beseech thee Surely if they Catholiques were not at all and could not teach me any thing I would more easily perswade my selfe that I were not to belieue Christ then I should learne any thing concerning him from any other then those by whom I belieued him Lastly I aske what wisdome it could be to leaue all visible Churches and consequently the true Catholique Church of Christ which you confesse cannot erre in points necessary to saluation and the Roman Church which you grant doth not erre in fundamentalls and follow priuate men who may erre euen in points necessary to saluation Especially if we add that when Luther rose there was no visible true Catholique Church besides that of Rome and them who agreed with her in which sense she was is the only true Church of Christ and not capable of any Error in fayth Nay euen Luther who first opposed the Roman Church yet comming to dispute against other Heretiques he is forced to giue the Lye both to his owne words and deeds in saying We freely confesse (t) In epist cont Anab. ad duos Paerochos to 2 Germ. Witt. fol. 229. 230. that in the Papacy there are many good things worthy the name of Christian which haue come from them to vs. Namely we confesse that in the Papacy there is true Scripture true Baptisme the true Sacrament of the Aultar the true keyes for remission of sinnes the true Office of Preaching true Catechisme as our Lords Prayer Ten Commandements Articles of fayth c. And afterward I auouch that vnder the Papacy there is true Christianity yea the Kernel and Marrow of Christianity and many pious and great Saints And againe he affirmeth that the Church of Rome hath the true Spirit Gospells Fayth Baptisme Sacraments the Keyes the Office of Preaching Prayer Holy Scripture and whatsoeuer Christianity ought to haue And a litle before I heare and see that they bring in Anabaptisme onely to this end that they may spight the Pope as men that will receiue nothing from Antichrist no otherwise then the Sacramentaries doe who therefore belieue only Bread and Wine to be in the Sacrament meerely in hatred against the Bishop of Rome and they thinke that by this meanes they shall ouercome the Papacy Verily these men rely vpon a weake ground for by this meanes they must deny the whole Scripture and the Office of Preaching For we haue all these things from the Pope otherwise we must goe make a new Scripture O Truth more forcible as S. Augustine sayes to wring out (x) Contra Donat. post collat cap. 24. Confession then is any racke or torment And so we may truly say with Moyses Inimici nostri sunt Iudices Our very Enemies giue (y) Deut. c. 32. 31. sentence for vs. 32. Lastly since your fayth wanteth Certainty and Prudence it is easy to inferre that it wants the fourth Condition Supernaturality Their faith wants Supernaturality For being but an Humane persuasion or Opinion it is not in nature or Essence Supernaturall And being imprudent and rash it cannot proceed from diuine Motion and Grace and therefore it is neyther supernaturall in it selfe or in the Cause from which it procedeth 33. Since therefore we haue proued that whosoeuer erres agaynst any one point of faith looseth all diuine fayth euen concerning those other Articles wherein he doth not erre and that although he could still retayne true fayth for some points yet any one errour in whatsoeuer other matter
the vniuersall Church where you breake off But Innocentius his words are these The Vniuersall Church is said to be that which consists of all Churches which of the Greeke word is called Catholique and according to this acception of the Word the Roman Church is not the Vniuersall Church but part of the Vniuersall Church Yet the first and chiefe part as the head in the body because in her fulnes of power doth exist but only a part of fulnes is deriued to others And that One Church which containes vnder it selfe all Churches is said to be the Vniuersall Church And according to this signification of the Word only the Roman Church is called the Vniuersall Church because she alone is preferred before the rest by priuiledge of singuler dignity As God is called the vniuersall Lord not because he is diuided into species c. but because all things are contained vnder his Dominion For there is One generall Church of which Truth it selfe said to Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke c. And the many particular Churches of which the Apostle sayth Instantia mea c. One doth consist of all as the generall of particulars One hath the preeminence before all because seing there is one Body of the Church of which the Apostle sayth We are all one Body in Christ she excels the rest as the Head excels the other members of the body Thus far Innocentius who as you see teacheth that the Roman Church is the Head of all others That although the Roman Church in one sense be a particular Church yet in another sense it both is and ought to be called the Vniuersall Church and finally that your Obiectiō about the repugnance betwixt the terme Vniuersall and particular is friuolous as he explicates very well by the example of Almighty God who is said to be an Vniuersall Cause and yet had neyther genus nor species and besids whom there are other particular Causes Is this to affirme as you say that the Roman Church is a topycall or particular Church in and vnder the Vniuersall Or that she is onely Topicall or particular as you would make the Reader belieue 9. Your preaching rather then prouing the Charity of your Church Administration of Sacraments c. must rely vpon a voluntary begging of the Question that your Religion is true otherwise the good deeds you mention are not expressions of Charity but professions of Heresy The learned Cardinall Hosius saying Whosoeuer belieues (f) Hosiu in Confess Petricon çap. 14. the Article of the Catholique Church belieues all things necessary to Saluation sayes no more then you will say that whosoeuer belieues the whole Canon of Scripture belieues all things necessary to Saluation And you cannot but speake against your owne conscience when you say of the Roman Church pag. 16. She tells them it is Creed inough for them to belieue onely in the Catholike Church For your selfe pag. 198. affirme that the best aduised of Catholique Deuines yield there are some points necessary to be knowne of all sorts necessitate medi◠in which points implicite fayth doth not suffice you cite some of our Authors to this purpose Chap. 71. 241. and referre vs to a great many more What conscionable dealing is this I will not stand to note that Hosius euen as he is cited by you in Latin doth not say that we belieue in the Church as you make him speake in your text but that we belieue the Church But inough of this 10. In your First Edition I find these wordes Neuer did (g) Pag. 13. any Church affoard more plentifully the meanes of grace nor more abound with all helps and aduantages of Piety then this of ours But in your second Edition you say No Church of this Age doth affoard c. Whereby you acknowledge that at first you did ouerlash so do you now But it comes to you by kind Beza makes bold to say When I compare euen the tymes which were next to the Apostles (h) In epist. Theol. epist. 1. pag. 5. with ours I am wont to say and in my opinion not without cause that they had more conscience and lesse knowledge and contrarily we haue more knowledge and lesse conscience And M. Whitgift your once Archbishop of Canterbury sayth The doctrine taught and professed (i) In his defēce of the answer c. pag. 472. 473. by our Bishops at this day is more perfect and sounder then commonly was in any Age after the Apostles c. How greatly were almost all the Bishops and learned Writers of the Greeke Church and Latins also for the most part spotted with doctrines of Free will of Merits of Inuocation of Saints and such like Surely you are not able to reckon in any Age since the Apostles times any Company of Bishops that taught and held so sound and perfect doctrine in all points as the Bishops of England do at this day And will not the Puritanes say that they are more pure then Protestants and Anabaptists accompt themselues more vnspotted then Puritanes c In the meane time your own Archbishop grants that Almost all the Bishops learned Writers of the Greeke Church and Latins also were for the most part spotted with doctrines which now you call Popish Superstitions 11. The rest of this Section contaynes nothing but rayling and vntruths continually vttered by euery Minister and often answered by our Writers In Catholique Countreys there may be good reason for not mentioning the needles praises of condemned Heretiques lest the estimation of their morall parts which they abuse against Gods Church breed a liking and add authority to their pestiferous errors If D. Stapleton or any other speaking of Heretiques in generall compare them to Magicians c. as Tertullian also doth what is that to you vnles you be resolued to proclaime your selfe an Heretique Such sayings are not directed to their Persons which we loue but fall vpon their sinne which considered in it selfe cannot I hope be ouerwronged by ill language S. Policarpe called an Heretique the first begotten of the Diuell S. Paul giues them the name of (k) Philip. 3.2 Dogs S. Iohn * Ep. 2.7 termes them Antichrists as your Ministers are wont to call the Pope Charity Mistaken compares you not with Iewes or Turkes for impossibility to be saued Euery deadly sinne excludes saluation yet some are more grieuous and further from pardon then others 12. I hope the Mistaker (l) Pag. 19. would not wish vs conuerted from our Creed No But we wish you conuerted from Erroneous Interpretations therof to the Catholique Church which we professe in our Creed In the meane time these are learned arguments which may serue both sides Protestants belieue the Creed Ergo they need not be couuerted Catholiques belieue the Creed Ergo they need not be conuerted You tell vs of a Censure of the Creed written by some Catholique And in your first Edition you put Censura
alleage in your Margent for what you say about the Greeke Church at this day the Councell of (u) Graeeï in Conc. Flor. ante Sess 1. in Quaest de Purgat Florence wheras indeed it is affirmed in the Councell that Declaratum fuit c. It was at length declared that the Saints haue both attained and not attained Perfect Beatitude that is that the soules as Soules haue attained perfect Beatitude yet that they shall receiue some perfection with their bodies when they shall shine as the sunne And it is to be noted that before this declaration was made the Greeke Emperour came into the Councell and so it was done with the common consent of the Grecians 18. And heere let me put you in mind that if the Heresy of Aërius whether you take it in our or your owne sense were not fundamentall then you may learne that to make an Heresy or Heretique it is sufficient that the error consist in any point though the same be not fundamentall If you hold it to be fundamentall then it followes that Tradition and Custome of the Church extends it selfe euen to fundamentall points in such sort as to oppose such Tradition is a fundamentall error For as we haue seene before S. Epiphanius and S. Augustine proue Prayer for the dead by Tradition though I grant we want not Scripture for it but you who both deny the Machabees and also turne Prayer for the Dead into a bare Commemoration c. will find no Scripture wherby to refute Aërius Moreouer wheras you are wont to impugne a third place distinct from Heauen and Hell by those words of Scripture If the Tree shall fall to the South (w) Ecclesiast cap. 11.3 or the North in what place soeuer it shall fall there shall it be and such like Arguments how come you now to admit a third Temporary place and so be forced to solue your owne obiections 19. Now I wish you to consider that eyther the Grecians did belieue that the Saints enioy the Beatificall Vision are not as you teach in some outward Court or els they thought that Inuocation of Saints may well be defended though they doe not see the face of God which two points you (x) Pag. 36. deny can stand togeather For you haue heard both out of the Greeke Liturgy and your Protestant Writers that the Grecians belieue Inuocation of Saints True it is if Saints doe not enioy the Beatificall Vision they cannot heare or see our Prayers in verbo or in the Diuine Essence but yet they may behold vs and our Prayers by particular Reuelation as some Catholique Deuines teach de facto of the blessed soules and Angels 20. Yet if you will needs suppose that Inuocation of Saints cannot be defended vnlesse they enioy the Beatificall Vision you should not in true reason deny Inuocation because they are not Blessed but contrarily you ought to belieue that they are in Blisse because it hath alwayes beene the practise of the Ancient Church to inuocate them Nor ought Protestants in geuerall to deny prayers to Saints because they cannot heare vs but they ought on the other side to belieue that they cā heare vs because the Church both Greeke and Latin hath alwayes practised and allowed Prayers to them M. Whitgift as I sayd already confesseth that almost all the Bishops and Writers (y) In his defence of the answer pag. 473. of the Greeke Church and Latin also for the most part were spotted with the doctrines of Freewill of Merit of Inuocation of Saints and such like In particular the Saints Ambrose Augustine Hierome Nazianzen Basill Nyssen Chrysostome are taxed by your Brethren for holding Inuocatiō of Saints And your Conturists not only charge ancient Origen for praying for himselfe to holy Iob but they also say that there are manifest steps of Inuocatiō of Saints in the Doctors of that ancient (z) Vid Apol Prot. tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 7 Age. And D. Couel affirmeth that diuers both of the Greeke (a) In his Examination c. pag. 120. and Latin Church were spotted with errours about Freewill Merits Inuocation of Saints c. That Vigilantius was condemned as an Heretike for denying Prayers to Saints may be seen in (b) Cont. Vigilant c. 2. 3. S. Hierome and is confessed by (c) In his answer to a counterfeyt Cath. pag. 46. Fulke Thus then we see what the Ancient Church held concerning Innocation of Saints consequently they belieued that they heare our Prayers 21. Your saying that we inuocate Saints as Commissioners (d) pag. 36. vnder God to whome he hath delegated the power of conferring sundry benefias deposited in their hands to be bestowed at their pleasure I let passe as a very vulgar slaunder vnworthy of a particular answere For as the sacred Councell of Trent speaketh we implore (e) Sess 22. cap. 3. their assistance that they would vouchsafe to pray for vs in heauen whose memory we keep on earth Which wordes are also in the Masse 22. But how solidly Bellarmine (f) De Sanctorum Beatitud lib. 1. cap. 2.3.4 ◠6. proues that the Saints enioy the sight of God may be seen by weighing his Arguments drawne from Scriptures Councels Fathers both Greeke and Latin and Reasons grounded on Scripture And your affirming that It may be (g) pag. 35. thought he spake against his knowledge conscience comes very vnseasonably besides the grosse vntruth and great folly of it in a Treatise wherin you tax others for want of Charity But I remember that S. Thomas among the causes of suspition putteth the first of them to proceed from this That a man is (h) 2.2 q. 60. art 3. in corp ill himselfe and therfore being conscious of his owne sinne he easily conceiues ill of others according to that Eccle s 10. The foolish man walking by the way he himselfe being foolish doth account all to be Fooles Did your prime Brethren speake against their conscience who affirme so many Ancient Fathers to haue beene spotted with the Inuocation of Saints which you say cannot stand with their want of Beatitude 23. You say The Roman Writers vtterly condemne the (i) pag. 3◠former doctrine and practise of Antiquity One of them feares not to censure it as absurd and impious for which last words you cite in your (k) Azor. Instit. Moral tom 1. cap. 20. lib. 8. § Neque vero Margent Azor. But it is an egregious vntruth and falsification For we do both admitland practise Thankes-giuing for the happines of Saints And your further Requests of Gods mercy that they may haue their perfect Consummation both in body and soule in the kingdome of God at the last Iudgmēt are wholy needles at lest because without any dependance or reference to our Prayers they are most assured therof by the immutable decree of God And you might in the same manner make Requests that they may not loose their
expressely condemne as erroneous or in the next degree to Heresy But because it were a vanity to muster a number of Writers in a question impertinent to our present designe which is only against Heresy or Schisme both which exclude inuincible ignorance I hold it best to passe them ouer in silence 30. Your saying that A man may be a true visible membër (t) Pag. 47. of the holy Catholique Church who is not actually otherwise then in vow a member of any true visible Church destroyes it selfe For in the same manner and degree neyther more nor lesse a man is a visible member in act or in desire of the visible Church as he is a mēber of the true Catholique Church which is visible And Bellarmine whome you cite for your selfe is directly agaynst you For he teacheth that a man may (u) de Eccles milit cap. 6. Respondeo be in the Church in desire which is sufficient for Saluation when he is inuoluntarily hindred from being actually of the Church and yet not in the Church by externall Comunion which properly maketh him to be of the visible Church which is directly to deny what you affirmed I might reflect what a pretty connection you make in saying who is not actually otherwise then in vow c. you might as well haue sayd who is not actually otherwise then not in act c. But such small matters as these I willingly dissemble The poore man in the Ghospell was cast out of the Synagogue by notorious iniustice and therefore still remayned a member of the Iewish Church not only in desire but also in act You say Athanasius stood single in defense of diuine Truth all his Brethren the other Patriarchs not he of Rome excepted hauing subscribed to Arianisme and cast him out of their Communion And you referre vs to Baronius cited in your Margent to what purpose I know not except to display your owne bad proceeding For Baronius in the place by you alledged (w) Anno 357. num 44. apud Spond doth not incidently or only by the way but industriously and of set purpose cleere Pope Libertu◠from hauing euer subscribed to Arianisme He subscribed indeed to the condemnation of S. Athanasius which was not for matter of faith but of fact to wit for certayne crimes obiected agaynst him as Bellarmine (x) De Rom. Port lib. 4. cap. 9. affirmeth which being false S. Athanasius did not therefore cease to be a member of the Catholike Church If the errours of Tertullian were in themselues so smal as you would make them it may serue for an example that not so much the matter as the manner and obstinacy is that which makes an Heretique which ouerthrowes your distinction of points fundamentall c. 31. The proofes which you bring from the Africans and others that Communion with the Roman Church was not alwayes held necessary to Saluation haue been a thousand tymes answered by Catholique Writers and they are such as you could not haue chosen any more disaduantagious to your cause Heertofore I shewed that Communion with the Roman Church was by Antiquity iudged to be the marke of a true Belieuer And indeed seing you speake of those times wherin Rome stood in her purity as you say how could any be diuided from her fayth and yet belieue aright Do not your selfe say Whosoeuer professeth himselfe to forsake (y) Pag. 76. the Communion of any one member of the Body of Christ must confesse himselfe consequently to forsake the whole How then could any diuide themselues from the Romane Church while she was in her purity Euen S. Cyprian whose example you alleage fayth They (z) Ad Cornel ep 33. presume to saile to the Roman Church which is the Chaire of Peter and to the principall Chaire from whence Priestly Vnity hath sprung Neither do they consider that they are Romans whose fayth was commended by the preaching of the Apostle to whom falshood cannot haue accesse Optatus Mileuitanus also an African saith At Rome hath been constituted to Peter (a) 〈◊〉 Parm. lib. 2. the Episcopall Chaire that in this only Chaire the Vnity of all might be preserued And S. Augustine like wise an African affirmeth that Cacilianus might despise (b) Epist 62 the conspiring multitude of his enemies that is of seauenty Bishops of Africa assembled in Numidia because he saw himselfe vnited by letters Communicatory with the Roman Church in which the Principality of the Sea Apostolique had alwayes flourished And after Pelagius had been iudged in the East by the Bishops of Palestine and Celestius his Disciple had been excommunicated for the same cause in Asrica by the African Bishops the Mileuitan Councell referred them finally to the Pope saying We hope by the (c) Ep. Conc. Mileu ad Innocent inter epist. Aug. epist 92 mercy of our Lord Iesus-Christ who vouchsafe to gouerne thee consulting with him and to heare thee praying to him that those who hold these Doctrines so peruerse and pernicious will more easily yield to the authority of thy Holynes drawne out of the holy Scriptures Behold the Popes prerogatiue drawne out of the holy Scriptures And it is very strang that you will alleage the Authority of S. Cyprian and other Bishops of Africa against Pope Stephen who opposed himselfe to them in the Question of Rebaptization wherin they agreed with the Heresy of the Donatists which was condemned not only by the Pope but by the whole Church yea by those very Bishops who once adhered to S. Cyprian as S. Hierome witnesseth saying Finally they who had been (d) Coutra Luçifer of the same opinion set forth a new decree saying What shall we do So hath it been deliuered to them by their Ancestors and ours And Vincentius Lyrinensis speaking of Stephen his opposing S. Cyprian sayth Then (e) In Com. part 1. the blessed Stephen resisted together with but yet before his Collegues iudging it as I conceiue to be a thing worthy of him to excell them as much in Fayth as he did in the authority of his place 32. Neither are you more fortunate in the example of Pope Victor then in the other of Stephen For although Eusebius whom S. Hierome (f) Contra Ruff. Apol. 1. stiles the Ensigne-bearer of the Arian Sect and who was a profest Enemy of the Roman Church doth relate that S. Irenaeus (g) Hist. Eccles lib. 5. c. 24. reprehended Victor for hauing excommunicated the Churches of Asia for the question about keeping Easter yet euen he dare not say that Irenaeus blamed the Pope for want of Power but for misapplying it which supposeth a Power to do it if the cause had been sufficient And the successe shewed that euen in the vse of his Power Pope Victor was in the right For after his death the Councels of Nice Constantinople and Ephesus which you receiue as lawfull Generall Councels excommunicated those who held the same Custome with the Prouinces which
we grant that it is not alwayes easy to determine in particuler occasions whether this or that doctrine be such Because it may be doubtfull whether it be against any Scripture or diuine Tradition or Definition of the Church and much more whether the person be an Heretique which requireth certaine conditions as Capacity Pertinacy sufficient Proposition c. which are not alwayes so easily explicated and discerned and for these respects S. Augustine in the place cited (b) Pag. 102. by you had good reason to say That it is hard to know what makes an Heretique But it is strange that you should hold it to be so hard a matter to giue a generall definition of Heresy or Heretique since in this very Section you dispatch it quickly saying He is iustly (c) Pag. 98. esteemed an Heretique who yields not to Scripture sufficiently propounded Or as you say else where It is fundamentall (d) Pag. 250. to a Christians Fayth and necessary for his saluation that he belieue all reuealed Truths of God wherof he may be conuinced that they are from God Nay if you will speake with coherence to your owne grounds it is easy for you to define in all particular cases what is damnable Heresy for you I say who measure all Heresy by opposition to Scripture and further affirme that Scripture is cleere in all fundamentall points For by this meanes it will be easy for you to discerne what error opposeth those fundamental Truths which are cleerly contained in Scripture 4. In your discourse concerning the Controuersy between Pope Stephen and S. Cyprian you shew a great deale of passion against the Roman Church which you impugne out of an Epistle of Firmilianus who at that time was a party against the Pope and who in particuler did afterward recant togeather with the other Bishops who once ioyned with S. Cyprian as we haue already shewed out of S. Hierome may be also seen in an Epistle of Dionysius Alexandrinus apud Eusch hist. l. 6. c. 7. wherin Firmilianus in particular is named therfore you are inexcusable who say they persisted in their opinion wheras the proceeding of S. Stephen was necessary to preuent a pernicious error of rebaptizing of such as had been baptized by Heretiques which afterward was condemned by the whole Church And as for S. Cyprians mild proceeding which you so much commend out of your ill will to S. Stephen because he was Pope S. Augustine saith The things which (e) De Bapt. cont Donat. lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian in anger hath spread against Stephen I will not suffer to passe vnder my pen. Wherfore you could not haue picked out an example more in fauour of Popes then this And you must giue vs leaue not to credit what you say That both Stephen and Cyprian erred in some sense For Stephen only affirmed that Baptisme was not inualide precisely because it is giuen by Heretiques as S. Cyprian affirmed it to be but yet if the Heretiques erred either in the Matter or Forme of Baptisme Stephen neuer affirmed such Baptisme to be valid which had been more then he granted euen to the Baptisme of Catholiques 5. Your Argument to proue that (f) Pag. 112. concerning our greater safety we dispute against you as the Donatists did against Catholiques I haue answered (g) Cap. 7. num 7. in the First Part. You would make men belieue that we are like the Donatists who washed Church wall and vestments of Catholiques broke their Chalices scraped their Altars c. But I pray you consider whether Chalices Vestments Palls or Corporals and Altars do expresse the Protestant Church of England Scotland Geneua Holland c. or the Church of Rome 6. You spend diuers pages in propounding Arguments for the opinion of M. Hooker and M. Morton That whersoeuer a company of men (h) Pag. 113. doe iointly professe the substance of Christian Religion which is fayth in Iesus Christ the Sonne of God and Sauiour of the world with submission to his doctrine in mynd and will there is a Church wherein Saluation may be had notwithstanding any corruption in ludgment or practise yea although it be of that nature that it seeme to fight with the very foundation and so haynous as that in respect thereof the people stayned with this corruption are worthy to be abhorred of all men and vnworthy to be called the Church of God But because these and such monstruous Assertions proceed from other errours which I haue already both cleerly and at large confuted to wit the Fallibility of the Church the Distinction of points fundamental and not fundamentall c. I referre you to those places and heere onely obserue into what precipices they fall who deny the vniuersall Infallibility of the Church And it is strange that you your selfe did not see the manifest contradictions inuolued in this wicked doctrine For how can it be a Church wherein Saluation may be had and yet be vnworthy to be called the Church of God How can that man haue fayth in Iesus Christ with submission to his doctrine in mind and will who is supposed to ioyne with his beliefe in Iesus Christ other errors sufficiently propounded to be repugnant against Gods word or Reuelation Can submission in mind or will or obseruation of his Commandments stand with actuall voluntary error against his word Is it not a prime Commandment to belieue Gods word Do not your selfe affirme that it is Infidelity to deny whatsoeuer is reuealed in Scripture How then can a Church be said to haue meanes for saluation and life wherin is wanting Fayth the first ground of saluation The Fathers sometimes called the Donatists Brethren by reason of their true Baptisme not for their possibility to be saued according as S. Augustine said to them The Sacraments of Christ (i) Epist 48. do not make thee an Heretique but thy wicked disagreement And Optatus sayth You cannot (k) Lib. 4◠but be our brethren whom the same Mother the Church hath begotten in the same bowels of Sacraments whom God our Father hath in the same manner receiued as adopted Children namely on his behalfe and for as much as concernes the vertue of Baptisme The Conclusion of your discourse may well beseeme the doctrine for which you bring it A learned man (l) Pag. 122. anciently was made a Bishop of the Catholique Church although he did professedly doubt of the last Resurrection of our bodies You might haue added that he would not belieue that the world should euer haue an end and further absolutely refused to be baptized And that he would not as the History recoūteth liue a single life as other Priests but that he would liue with a wife For Synesius who is the man you meane publiquely protested all these things and you are wise inough to take only what might seeme to serue your turne as this concerning the single liues of Priests did not because it sheweth that in those
anciēt times Priests could not liue with wiues And now I aske whether in good earnest you belieue that one may be made a Bishop who will not belieue the Resurrection nor wil be baptized or whether he may be baptized against his will The Answere therfore may be seen in Baronius who (m) Anno 410. n. 6. Spond demonstrates out of the Epistles of Synesius himselfe that he did these things not to be made a Bishop wishing as he affirmeth rather to dye then to endure so great a burthen wherin saith Baronius he seemes only to haue done in words that which S. Ambrose pretended in deeds which was to be esteemed incontinent and vnmercifull so to hinder his being made Bishop But these extraordinary proceedings may be admired but ought not to be imitated To say that the ten Tribes notwithstanding their Idolatries remained still a true Church cannot but make any Christian soule tremble to consider to what damnable absurdities and impieties they fall who leaue the Roman Church You falfify Magallanus (n) In Tit. 3.11 as if he with M. Hooker affirmed that If an Infidell (o) Pag. 117. should pursue to death an Heretique only for Christian professions sake the honour of Martyrdome could not be denied to him which is contrary to the words and meaning of Magallanus For he expresly teacheth that they do not participate of the grace of the Church but are dead parts and consequently not capable of saluation Only he sayth that they may be called mēbers of the Church because the Church can iudge and punish them It is impossible that any Catholique Author should teach that an Heretique remayning an Heretique that is actually and voluntarily denying a reuealed Truth sufficiently propounded for such can be a Martyr But such as you are may affirme what you please The words of Saluianus (p) De Gnbern lib. ◠which you cite and say that they are very remarkable do only signify by way of doubt whether some of the Heretiques of whom he spoke and who in simplicity followed their Teachers as he expresly sayth may not be excused by ignorance And since you affirme that he speakes of Arians I would know whether you do not thinke Arianisme to be a damnable Heresy vnles accidentally ignorance excuse some particular persons 7. You say that (q) Pag. 131. the Errors of the Donatists concerning the inualidity of the Baptisme giuen by Heretiques and of the Nouatians that the Church ought not to absolue some grieuous sinners were not in themselues hereticall c. Neither was it in the Churches intention or in her power to make them such by her declaration If these errours neither in themselues nor by the declaration of the Church be hereticall I pray you how are they hereticall May a mā in these tymes hold them without note of Heresy So you must say vnles you grant the definitions of Gods Church to be infallible For S. Augustine professeth that this point concerning rebaptization cannot be determined out of Scripture alone as hath been sayd before Or if you say this Errour may be confuted out of Scripture then you must grant that it is in it selfe hereticall which you deny But no wonder if by denying the infallibility of the Church you be brought to such straytes I goe on now to the next CHAP. V. IN this Section you handle three points First that the Church is infallible onely in fundamentall points Secondly that the Generall Councels and Thirdly that the Pope may erre in points fundamētall Concerning the first I haue spoken in the first Part the second and third are particular disputes from which you ought to haue abstained if you had meant to haue touched indeed the point of our Controuersy But since you will needs fill you Booke with such particulars I must also goe out of the way to answere your obiections 2. If I tooke pleasure as you doe to fill my Margent with quotations of Authours I could easily shew how you mistake and wrong our Schoole-men as if they held that something which in it self is not infinit but really distinct from the diuine Authority were the chiefe Motiue of fayth the first and furthest principle into which it resolues wheras their difference is only in explicating vnder what precise and formall consideration God is the formall obiect of fayth some assigning the Diuinity it selfe others the authority of God commanding others which is the common opinion teaching that it is resolued into the diuine or Prime Verity and lastly euen those whome it seemes you call vnwise and vnwarry Writers agaynst Luther doe not teach that the Authority of the Church is the chiefest first and furthest principle into which fayth resolues but at the most that her Proposition is necessary to an Act of diuine fayth eyther because they conceyue that matter of faith ought to concerne the common good of Religion and so require a publique Authority or Propounder or els because they hold that her Proposition in some sort enters into the formall obiect of fayth in respect of vs Neither are the Authors of this opinion only Writers against Luther as you say but diuers other Schoole-Deuines 3. Wheras you say that there is no question but that Fayth is supernaturall in regard of the Efsicient Cause and of the Obiect both which ought to be supernaturall it seemes you are willing to dissemble the doctrine of your great Reformer Zwinglius who (a) Tom. 2. exposit fidei Christianae fol. 159. out of his excessiue Charity placed in heauen Hercules Theseus Socrates Aristides c. who had no supernaturall Fayth nor beliefe of God as also the Children of the Heathens dying without (b) Tom. 2. fol. 540. Baptisme Were not such Charitable men very fit to reforme the Church 4. You fall againe vpon the sufficiency of Scripture which point I haue already answered shewed in what sense all points of fayth may be contained in Scripture to wit in as much as the Scripture doth recommend to vs the Church and diuine vnwritten Traditions Neither can you alleage any one Catholique Author ancient or moderne who speaking of the sufficiency of Scripture excludes Tradition by which euen Scripture it selfe is deliuered to vs. And as for S. Augustine and S. Basill whom you alleage for the sufficiency of Scripture they be so cleerly for Tradition that they haue been taxed by some Protestants for that cause as likewise for the same reason some chiefe Protestants haue blamed Clemens Alexandrinus Origen Epiphanius Ambrose Hierome Maximus Theophilus Damascene Chrysostome Tertullian Cyprian Leo Eusebius and others as may be seene in (c) Tract 1. Sect. 3. Subd 22. Brereley But though Scripture alone did particularly containe all points necessary to saluarion doth it follow thinke you from thence that the Church is not infallible May not both Scripture and Church be infallible in what they deliuer Doth not your selfe grant that the Church is infallible for points fundamentall and for
infallibility because it being euident that she is the selfe same Church which was founded by our Sauiour Christ and continued from the Apostles to this Age by a neuer interrupted succession of Pastours and faythfull people it followes that she is the Church of Christ which being once granted it is further inferred that all are obliged to haue recourse to her and to rest in her iudgement for all other particular points which cōcerne faith or Religion which we could not be obligd to doe if we were persuaded that she were subiect to errour Which yet is more euident if we add that there can be no Rule giuen in what points we should belieue her and in what not and therefore we are obliged to belieue her in all Moreouer since the true Church must be Iudge of Controuersies in fayth as we haue proued it cleerly followes that she must be infallible in all points Which vmuersall infallibility being supposed out of the generall ground of Gods prouidence which is not defectiue in things necessary we may afterward belieue the same infallibility euen by the Church herselfe when she testifies that particular point of her owne infallibility As the Scripture cannot giue Testimony to it selfe till first it be belieued to be Gods word yet this being once presupposed it may afterward giue Testimony to it selfe as S. Paul affirmeth that All Scripture is diuinely (u) 2. Tim. 3.16 inspired c. Secondly I answere that the Church hath many wayes declared her owne infallibility which she professeth euen in the Apostles Creed I belieue the holy Catholique Church For she could not be holy if she were subiect to error in matters of fayth which is the first foundation of all sanctity she could not be Catholique or Vniuersal for all Ages if at any time she could erre and be Author that the whole world should erre in points reuealed by God she could not be One or Apostolicall as she professeth in another Creed if she were diuided in points of fayth or could swarue from the Doctrine of the Apostles she could not be alwayes existent and visible because euery error in fayth destroies all Fayth the Church So that while the Church and euery faythfull person belieues professes the Sanctity Vniuersality Vnity and Perpetuall Visibility of the Church she and they belieue proclaime her infallibility in all matters of fayth which she doth also auouch by accursing all such as belieue not her definitions and while in all occasions of emergent Controuersies she gathers Councels to determine them without examining whether they concerne points fundamentall or not fundamentall while in all such holy Assemblies she sayth with the first Councell It hath (w) Act. 15. seemed to the holy Ghost and vs while she proposeth diuers points to be belieued which are not contained in Scripture as that those who are baptized by Heretiques cannot without sacriledge be rebaptized that Baptisme of Infants is lawfull that Easter is to be kept at a certaine time against the Heretiques called Quartadecimani that the Blessed Virgin the most Immaculate Mother of God was eternally a most pure Virgin that such particular Matter and Forme is necessary for the validity of Sacraments that such particular Bookes Chapters and lines are the word of God with diuers such other points of all which we may say that which S. Augustine said about Rebaptization of Heretiques The obscurity of this Question (x) Lib. 1. cont Donat cap. 7. before the schisme of Donatus did so mooue mon of great note and Fathers and Bishops endued with great Charity to debate and doubt without breach of peace that for a long time in seuerall Regions there were diuers and doubtfull decrees till that which was truly belieued was vndoubtedly established by a full Councell of the whole world And yet the point declared in that Councell was neither fundamentall in your sense nor contained in Scripture And to the same effect are the words of S. Ambrose who speaking of the Heretiques condemned in the Councell of Nice sayth that They were not condemned by humane (y) Lib. 1. defid ad Gratian cap. 5. industry but by the authority of those Fathers as likewise the last Generall Councell of Trent defines That it belongs to the Church (z) 1. Sess 4. to iudge of the true sense and interpretation of Scripture which must needs suppose her infallibility And lastly the thirst that euery one who desires to saue his soule feeles in his soule to find out the true Church and the quiet which euery one conceiues he shall enioy if once he find her shewes that the very sense and feeling of all Christians is that the Church is infallible For otherwise what great comfort could any wiseman conceiue to be incorporated in a Church which is conceiued to be subiect to error in matters of fayth 21. For want of better arguments you also alledge (a) pag. 161. some Authors within the Roman Church of great learning as you say who haue declared their opinion that any particular Churchs and by consequence the Roman any Councels though Generall may erre But though that which you affirme were true it would fall short of prouing that the Catholique Church is not infallible in all points For besides particular Churches or Generall Councels there is the common Consent of all Catholiques knowne by perpetuall sacred Tradition and there is likewise the continued Succession of Bishops and Pastors in which if one should place an vniuersall infallibility it were sufficient to ouerthrow your assertion of the fallibility of the Church And euen your selfe teach that the Church is infallible in all fundamentals and yet you affirme that any particular or Generall Councell may erre euen to Heresy or Fundamentall and Damnable errours And therfore you must grant that according to your Principles it is one thing to say Generall Councels may erre and another that the Catholique Church may erre But yet for the thing it selfe it is a matter of fayth that true Generall Councels confirmed by the Pope cannot erre And if any hold the contrary he cannot be excused except by ignorance or inaduertence And as for the Romane Authors which you cite Occham is no competent witnes both because that worke of his dialogues which you cite is condemned and because he himselfe was a knowne enemy and rebellious against the sea Apostolique Besides the words which you cite out of him against the Authority of Councels are not his opinion but alledged for arguments sake for so he professeth expresly in the very preface of that worke and often repeats it that he doth not intend to deliuer any opinion of his owne Thirdly wheras he alledgeth reasons for and against Councels he alledgeth but fine against them and seauen for them Lastly before he comes to dispute against Councels he doth in two seuerall (b) Dialog lib. 5.1 part cap. 25. c. 28. places in the very beginning of those Chapters of which
you proue by the Authority of Nilus a Schismatique an Heretique and a professed enemy of the Church of Rome and of Protestants also vnles they haue a mind to belieue that the holy Ghost proceeds not from the Sonne And how can Nilus affirme as he doth that the Pope refuseth to haue the groundes of that dissension fayrely heard and discussed in a generall Councell For vnder Vrbanus the second a Councell was held at Barium in Apulia where the Graecian Bishops being present were conuicted of errour in denying God the holy Ghost to proceed from God the Sonne S. Anselme (l) Anselm lib. de protes Spirit sanct our Primate of Canterbury being the chiefe disputant in the behalfe of the Latins Whereupon the Graecian Emperour that then ruled Alexius Comnenus became Catholicke and caused the Graecian Bishops to hold Communion with the Roman Church so long as he liued Baronîus tom 12. An. 1118. as Baronius sheweth And greater cause I haue to wonder that you would now reuiue this Cauill of Nilus For to say nothing of the Councell of Lyons in France vnder Gregory the tenth Baron ad an 1274. where the Patriarke of Constantinople was present and other Hierarchs of Greece to the number of 40. besides innumerable Bishops and Prelates of the Latins being more then a thousand in all some Kings being there in person and all by their Embassadors namely Michael Paleologus and Andronicus his Sonne Emperours of the East in whose name their Embassadours recanted abiured all errors against the Roman Church namely that about the Holy Ghost to pretermit I say this instance who doth not know that in the generall Councell at Florence the matter was debated vnder Eugenius the fourth where the Graecians with their Emperour and their Patriarch and the Legates of three other Patriarches and the Armenians and the Deputyes of the Ethiopians were present and a perfect concord was then made from which the Greekes departing afterward were subdued and made slaues to the Turke And that they might see the cause of their destruction to be pertinacity in their Errour about the Holy Ghost vpon the very feast of Pentecost as Bellarmine proueth the Citty of Constantinople was taken their Emperour killed Lib. 2. de Christo cap. 30. and their Empyre extinguished And it is well knowne that the true cause of their dissension whereupon a separation at last ensued was the Controuersy between Ignatius lawfull Patriarch of Constantinople whom the Pope still kept in his Communion and Photius an ambitious Intruder into the Patriarchate by strength of the Imperiall Power Which Schisme hath enlarged it selfe by addition of the heresy about the procession of the holy Ghost For want of better matter you bring heere that old Obiection about the Councels of Constance and Basil defining that the Councell is aboue the Pope The Answere whereof you may read in Bellarmine that (m) De Câ— lib. 2. c. â—â— the Popes who were deposed were in time of Schisme when it was not knowne who was the true Pope in which case the Church hath power to prouide herselfe of an vndoubted Pastour To say nothing that two of those Popes voluntarily renounced their pretence As for the decree of the Councell of Constance that all ought to obey a Generall Councell he answeres that either it is meant for time of Schisme or if it be vniuersall that the Councell could not make any such definition of fayth because it was neuer confirmed by the Pope for as much as concernes that point And the Councell of Basill was in that particular expresly repealed by diuers Popes and the whole Church receiued Eugenius as true Pope who yet was deposed by that Councell To disproue the Popes infallibility you cite Victoria saying Giue me (n) Relect. 4. de Potest Papae Conc. prop. 12. ad fin Clements Linus Siluesters and I will leaue all to their pleasure But to speake no worse of latter Popes they are much inferiour to those ancient Ones But you alleage this Author according to your wonted manner that is very vnfaithfully For he in that place speakes only of Dispensations in Lawes the facility and frequency wherof Victoria dislikes in these latter times Which being wholy matter of Fact doth nothing preiudice the Popes Infallibility for points of Fayth 30. To proue that there is nothing but vncertainty in prouing the Popes infallibility (o) Pag. 176. you alledge some place out of Bellarmine but with so great confusion and fraude that they serue only to proue the certainty of your ill dealing Bellarmine distinguishes two Questions The one whether S. Peter had any Successor in being head of the Church and this he sayth is most certayne and De iure diuino or by diuine institution The other whether it be de iure diuino or of diuine institution that S. Peters Successour must be the particular Bishop of Rome and this he sayth is not so certayne though it be true because if S. Peter had placed his Sea in some other Citty or els had chosen no particular Citty at all yet his Successour had been iure diuino Head of the Church howbeyt in that case he had not beene the particular Bishop of Rome Neuertheles because S. Peter did in fact choose Rome it is vpon that supposall a matter of fayth that the Bishop of Rome S. Peters Successour is all one As for example by the Law of God all lawfull Superiours are to be obeyed and therefore though it be not of diuine institutioÌ„ that this or that man should be superiour yet supposing that in fact he be Superiour the general diuine Law pitches fastens vpoÌ„ him obligeth vs to obey him in particular This being presupposed let vs now heare what you alledge out of (q) De Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 4. §. Restant Bellarmine S. Peter sate many yeares Bisshop of Rome there he died You chaÌ„ge the very QuestioÌ„ Bellarmines words in the Title of the Chapter are Petrum Romae vsque admortem Episcopum fuisse That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome till his death And he explaines his meaning to be That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome and that he kept that Bishoprick till his death which is a different thing from what you say That S. Peter sate many yeares Bishop of Rome and there he died For he might haue been many yeares Bishop of Rome and also died at Rome and yet not died Bishop of Rome as one may be Bishop of London for some yeares and dy at London yet not dye Bishop of London Now Bellarmine sayth that S. Peter died Bishop of Rome which indeed was the maine point and proues that the Bishop of Rome is S. Peters successour wheras to dye at Rome is accidentall to his being Bishop of Rome and in fact diuers Bishops of Rome died in France and els where But let vs goe on You say that the first reason by which Bellarmine proues that S.
now And heertofore I haue declared at large in what sense and vpon what occasion and reason S. Augustine against the Donatists made recourse to Scripture alone 26. You begin to impugne the Popes infallibility by saying that Charity-Mistaken meanes by his infallible Church only the Pope Which saying of yours doth well declare how fallible your affirmations are And that if the Pope define that to be white which the eye iudges to be blacke it must be so admitted by vs you pretend to proue out of I know not what papers of the Iesuites found in Padua in witnes wherof you alleage Paulus Soarpius a seditious scandalous and condemned Author we must by no meanes belieue you without better proofe You cite also out of Bellarmine these words If he the Pope should (b) De Rom â— Pont. lib. 4. c. 5. §§ Quodantens erre and command the practise of vice or forbid the exercise of vertue the Church were bound in conscience to belieue vices to be good and vertues to be bad Who would not thinke by these words of Bellarmine as you corrupt him that indeed we might belieue Vice to be good and Vertueil The direct contrary wherof he affirmes and from thence infers that the Pope whom the Church is obliged to obey as her Head and Supreme Pastor cannot erre in decrees of manners prescribed by him to the whole Church These be his words If the Pope did erre in commanding vices or forbidding Vertue the Church were bound to belieue that Vice is good and Vertue ill vnles she would sinne against her conscience For in doubtfull things the Church is bound to subiect herselfe to the Iudgment of the Pope and to do what he commands and not to do what he forbids and lest she should sinne agaynst her conscience she is bound to belieue that what he commands is good that what he forbids is ill For the auoyding of which inconuenience he concludes that the Pope cannot erre in Decrees concerning manners by forbidding Vertue or commanding Vice If one should proue that Scripture cannot erre in things concerning manners because otherwise Christians who are bound to belieue whatsoeuer the Scripture sayth should be obliged to belieue Vertue to be ill and Vice to be good would you infer that indeed we are to belieue Vertue to be ill and Vice to be good Or rather that indeed Scripture could not propose or command any such thing This is that which Bellarmine sayth But your selfe is he according to whose principles we might be obliged to imbrace vice c. For since you affirme that the authority (d) Pag. 1â—â— of Generall Councels is immediately deriued from Christ and that their Decrees bind all persons to externall Obedience and seing you hold that they may erre perniciously both in fayth and manners What remaines but that we must be obliged euen by authority immediately deriued from Christ himselfe to erre with the Councell and at lest externally imbrace Vice 29. You come afterward to discourse thus These men (e) Pag. 17â— deale not plainely with vs when they pretend often in their disputations against vs Scriptures Fathers Councells and the Church since in the issue their finall and infallible argument for their fayth is only the Popes Authority It were indeed a happy thing and a most effectuall way to end all Controuersies if people would submit themselues to some visible liuing Iudge by whom they might be instructed by whom it might be declared who alledge Scriptures and Fathers right or wrong Which since you and your Brethren refuse to do no wonder if we be constrained to alledge Scriptures and Fathers as you likewise do though you say that Scripture is infallible and that all Controuersies must be decided by it alone Besides though the Pope be infallible yet he is not so alone as if he did exclude all other infallible meanes for Scriptures Generall Councells and the Consent of the whole Catholique Church are also infallible And therfore as I was saying it is no wonder that we alledge other Arguments besides the decrees of Popes alone For since in our disputes with you we abound with all kind of arguments why should we not make vse therof And if you will know the reason why Councells be gathered to the great good of the Church notwithstanding the Popes infallibility you may read Bellarmine who giues (f) De Rom. Pontif lib. 4. cap. 7. §. Respondeo Id. the reason therof I hope you will grant that S. Peter was infallible and yet he thought good to gather a Councel Act. 15. for greater satisfaction of the faythfull and to take away all occasions of temptation in the weaker Christians What estimation Antiquity made of the Popes Authority I haue shewed heertofore And if some who haue written Pleas or Prescriptions against Heretiques do not without more adoe appeale (g) Pag. 173. all Heretiques to the Popes Tribunall you haue no cause to wonder since commonly the first error of all Heretiques is to oppose the Pope and the Church of Rome and therfore they must be conuinced by other Arguments Tertullian in his Prescriptions against Heretiques doth particularly aduise and direct that Heretiques are not to be admitted to dispute out of Scripture and that it is but in vaine to seeke to conuince them by that meanes and yet you hold that the Scripture is not only infallible but the sole Rule also of fayth How then do you infer against vs that if the Pope be infallible Tertullian should haue appealed all Heretiques to his Tribunall since he doth not appeale them to Scripture which yet he belieued to be infallible And neuertheles the two Authors whom you cite Tertullian and Vincentius Lyrinensis speake as much in aduantage of the Pope and Church of Rome as can be imagined If sayth Tertullian thou liue (h) Praescript cap. 36. neere Italy thou hast the Citty of Rome from thence Authority is neere at hand euen to vs Africans A happy Church into which the Apostles haue powred their whole doctrine together with their bloud And Vincentius Lyrinensis cals the (i) In sus Com. Pope and Church of Rome the Head and other Bishops as S. Cyprian from the South S. Ambrose from the North c. and others from other places the sides of the world And I cited these words out of him before who speaking of Rebaptization saith Then (k) In Com. part 1. the blessed Stephen resisted together with but before his Colleagues iudging it as I conceiue a thing worthy of him that he should surmount them as much in Fayth as he did in the authority of his place Of the opposition of some particular men to the Pope we haue spoken already and in your saying that his Authority hath beene opposed by Generall Councels we will not belieue you til you bring better proofe That the diuisions of the Easterne from the Latine Church proceeded from the ambition pretensions of the Bishop of Rome