why_o hincmarus_n re-ordained_n those_o who_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o ebbo_n because_o he_o have_v be_v depose_v 7._o why_o stephanus_n 4._o re-ordained_n those_o who_o have_v receive_v order_n from_o pope_n constantine_n 8._o why_o the_o ordination_n make_v by_o photius_n be_v declare_v null_n to_o name_v no_o more_o if_o this_o have_v be_v always_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n that_o the_o power_n of_o order_n be_v indelible_a but_o not_o that_o of_o jurisdiction_n i_o desire_v t._n g._n to_o give_v a_o answer_n to_o those_o question_n which_o i_o fear_v will_v involve_v several_a head_n of_o his_o church_n under_o that_o which_o he_o call_v in_o dr._n st._n a_o intolerable_a mistake_n do_v so_o many_o pope_n know_v no_o better_o this_o distinction_n between_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n and_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o be_o sorry_a to_o see_v t._n g._n so_o magisterial_a and_o confident_a so_o insult_v over_o dr._n st._n as_o betray_v so_o much_o ignorance_n as_o do_v not_o become_v a_o writer_n of_o controversy_n when_o all_o the_o while_n he_o do_v only_o expose_v his_o own_o but_o alas_o this_o be_v the_o current_a divinity_n of_o the_o modern_a school_n and_o what_o oblige_v they_o to_o look_v into_o the_o opinion_n of_o former_a age_n yet_o methinks_v a_o man_n have_v need_v to_o look_v about_o he_o before_o he_o upbraid_v another_o with_o gross_a and_o intolerable_a error_n lest_o at_o the_o same_o time_n he_o prove_v the_o guilty_a person_n and_o then_o the_o charge_n fall_v back_o far_o more_o heavy_o on_o himself_o 4._o those_o who_o do_v hold_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n do_v it_o chief_o on_o the_o account_n of_o the_o due_a form_n that_o be_v observe_v whoever_o the_o person_n be_v whether_o heretic_n or_o excommunicated-person_n for_o after_o all_o the_o heat_n and_o dispute_v which_o happen_v in_o the_o church_n about_o this_o matter_n the_o best_a way_n they_o find_v to_o resolve_v it_o be_v to_o observe_v the_o same_o course_n which_o the_o church_n have_v do_v in_o the_o baptism_n of_o heretic_n viz._n to_o allow_v that_o baptism_n which_o be_v administer_v in_o due_a form_n although_o those_o who_o administer_v it_o be_v heretic_n thence_o praepositivus_fw-la as_o he_o be_v quote_v by_o morinus_n say_v 3._o that_o a_o heretic_n have_v power_n to_o administer_v all_o the_o sacrament_n as_o long_o as_o he_o observe_v the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o only_o such_o a_o one_o as_o receive_v episcopal_a order_n in_o the_o church_n himself_o but_o those_o who_o do_v derive_v a_o succession_n from_o such_o as_o appear_v from_o tarasius_n in_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a where_o he_o say_v that_o five_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n successive_o be_v heretic_n and_o yet_o their_o ordination_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o church_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n speak_v other_o who_o be_v there_o produce_v by_o the_o same_o learned_a author_n let_v these_o consideration_n be_v lay_v together_o and_o the_o result_n will_v be_v 1._o either_o dr._n st._n be_v not_o guilty_a of_o a_o intolerable_a error_n and_o mistake_n in_o this_o matter_n or_o so_o many_o infallible_a head_n of_o the_o church_n be_v guilty_a of_o the_o same_o 2._o it_o be_v believe_v for_o some_o age_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n do_v take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o order_n 3._o t._n g.'s_n distinction_n as_o to_o the_o foundation_n of_o it_o in_o the_o indelible_a character_n of_o order_n be_v a_o novel_a thing_n and_o acknowledge_v by_o their_o own_o divine_n to_o have_v no_o foundation_n either_o in_o scripture_n or_o father_n 4._o the_o ground_n assign_v by_o those_o who_o hold_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n by_o heretic_n will_v hold_v for_o the_o authority_n of_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n if_o not_o actual_o take_v away_o by_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n for_o every_o man_n have_v the_o power_n which_o be_v give_v he_o till_o it_o be_v take_v from_o he_o every_o one_o that_o receive_v order_n according_a to_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n have_v a_o power_n give_v he_o to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v therefore_o every_o such_o person_n do_v enjoy_v that_o power_n till_o it_o be_v take_v from_o he_o for_o as_o i_o have_v already_o show_v this_o be_v part_n of_o the_o form_n of_o order_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la quorum_fw-la remiseritis_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n determine_v the_o character_n to_o be_v imprint_v upon_o the_o use_n of_o these_o word_n 4._o therefore_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v convey_v by_o the_o due_a form_n of_o order_n from_o whence_o it_o unavoidable_o follow_v that_o every_o one_o who_o have_v have_v the_o due_a form_n of_o order_n have_v have_v this_o power_n convey_v to_o he_o and_o what_o power_n he_o have_v he_o must_v enjoy_v till_o it_o be_v take_v away_o r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v that_o excommunication_n by_o the_o apostle_n sentence_n do_v it_o gal._n 1.8_o p._n d._n this_o be_v indeed_o a_o piece_n of_o new_a doctrine_n and_o a_o fruit_n of_o t._n g.'s_n mother-wit_n and_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v he_o receive_v neither_o from_o schoolman_n nor_o father_n for_o it_o involve_v such_o mischievous_a consequence_n in_o it_o as_o real_o overthrow_v all_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n for_o by_o this_o supposition_n in_o case_n any_o bishop_n fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o idolatry_n he_o be_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la excommunicate_v by_o st._n paul_n be_v sentence_n and_o consequent_o have_v no_o authority_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o so_o all_o who_o derive_v their_o power_n from_o he_o have_v no_o lawful_a authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n i_o do_v wonder_n in_o all_o this_o time_n t._n g._n do_v no_o better_o reflect_v upon_o this_o assertion_n and_o the_o consequence_n of_o it_o and_o rather_o to_o thank_v dr._n st._n that_o he_o take_v no_o more_o notice_n of_o it_o than_o upbraid_v he_o with_o intolerable_a error_n and_o mistake_n i_o will_v put_v a_o plain_a case_n to_o you_o to_o show_v you_o the_o ill_a consequence_n of_o this_o assertion_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n itself_o dr._n st._n have_v prove_v by_o undeniable_a evidence_n that_o the_o arian_n be_v look_v on_o and_o condemn_v as_o idolater_n by_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o t._n g._n do_v not_o deny_v it_o and_o what_o now_o if_o we_o find_v a_o arian_n among_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o from_o who_o the_o succession_n be_v derive_v he_o must_v stand_v excommunicate_v by_o virtue_n of_o the_o apostle_n sentence_n and_o therefore_o have_v no_o authority_n to_o give_v order_n and_o so_o all_o the_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v lose_v the_o case_n i_o mean_v be_v that_o of_o liberius_n who_o show_v himself_o as_o much_o a_o arian_n as_o any_o of_o the_o arian_n bishop_n do_v for_o he_o subscribe_v their_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o join_v in_o communion_n with_o they_o 4._o st._n hierom_n say_v more_o than_o once_o that_o he_o subscribe_v to_o heresy_n the_o pontifical_a book_n say_v he_o communicate_v with_o heretic_n marcellinus_n and_o faustinus_n say_v that_o he_o renounce_v the_o faith_n by_o his_o subscription_n yea_o more_o than_o this_o hilary_n denounce_v a_o anathema_n against_o he_o and_o all_o that_o join_v with_o he_o 46._o and_o baronius_n confess_v he_o do_v communicate_v with_o the_o arian_n which_o be_v suffient_fw-la to_o our_o purpose_n then_o come_v t._n g._n upon_o he_o with_o st._n paul_n be_v sentence_n of_o excommunication_n and_o so_o he_o lose_v all_o authority_n of_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o consequent_o that_o authority_n which_o be_v challenge_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v derive_v from_o he_o be_v all_o lose_v and_o now_o judge_v who_o subvert_v the_o foundation_n of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n most_o t._n g._n or_o dr._n st._n yet_o it_o fall_v out_o unhappy_o that_o pet._n damiani_n mention_n these_o very_a ordination_n of_o liberius_n the_o heretic_n so_o he_o call_v he_o to_o show_v how_o the_o church_n do_v allow_v ordination_n make_v by_o heretic_n 16._o but_o this_o be_v not_o all_o for_o by_o all_o that_o i_o can_v find_v if_o this_o principle_n of_o t._n g._n be_v allow_v no_o man_n can_v be_v sure_a there_o be_v any_o lawful_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n leave_v in_o the_o world_n for_o who_o can_v tell_v what_o secret_a idolater_n or_o heretic_n there_o may_v be_v among_o those_o bishop_n from_o who_o that_o authority_n be_v derive_v this_o we_o be_v sure_a of_o that_o the_o arian_n bishop_n possess_v most_o of_o the_o eastern_a church_n and_o make_v ordination_n there_o terminatam_fw-la and_o the_o western_a bishop_n in_o the_o council_n of_o ariminum_n do_v certain_o comply_v with_o they_o
g._n tell_v dr._n st._n the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n do_v for_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o charge_n he_o say_v the_o church_n of_o england_n remain_v deprive_v of_o the_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o consequent_o the_o authority_n of_o govern_v preach_a and_o adminstr_v the_o sacrament_n which_o those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n challenge_n to_o themselves_o as_o derive_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v be_v no_o true_a and_o lawful_a jurisdiction_n but_o usurp_v and_o antichristian_a etc._n this_o i_o assure_v you_o t._n g._n lay_n great_a weight_n upon_o in_o his_o late_a dialogue_n and_o charge_v he_o with_o ignorance_n and_o tergiversation_n and_o other_o hard_a word_n about_o it_o so_o that_o i_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v in_o his_o defence_n about_o this_o before_o i_o touch_v upon_o the_o other_o consequence_n which_o he_o urge_v upon_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n p._n d._n with_o all_o my_o heart_n there_o be_v two_o thing_n wherein_o the_o force_n of_o t._n g.'s_n argument_n lie_v 1._o that_o which_o he_o call_v his_o undeniable_a maxim_n of_o reason_n viz._n that_o no_o man_n can_v give_v to_o another_o that_o which_o he_o have_v not_o himself_o 2._o that_o idolatry_n lay_v man_n under_o the_o apostle_n excommunication_n and_o therefore_o be_v deprive_v of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v or_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n in_o answer_n to_o these_o two_o thing_n be_v already_o prove_v by_o dr._n st._n 1._o that_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o giver_n do_v not_o hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n 2._o that_o the_o christian_a church_n have_v allow_v the_o lawful_a authority_n of_o give_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n in_o those_o who_o have_v be_v condemn_v for_o idolatry_n which_o he_o prove_v more_o brief_o in_o his_o preface_n and_o at_o large_a in_o his_o last_o book_n from_o the_o case_n of_o the_o arian_n bishop_n and_o now_o let_v any_o one_o judge_n whether_o t._n g._n have_v any_o cause_n to_o hector_n about_o this_o matter_n for_o so_o many_o page_n together_o as_o though_o he_o have_v either_o not_o understand_v or_o not_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o force_n of_o his_o argument_n concern_v his_o undeniable_a maxim_n of_o reason_n he_o observe_v that_o it_o be_v the_o very_a argument_n use_v by_o the_o donatist_n to_o prove_v the_o nullity_n of_o baptism_n among_o heretic_n and_o that_o the_o answer_v give_v by_o the_o church_n be_v that_o the_o instrument_n be_v not_o the_o giver_n but_o the_o first_o institutor_n and_o if_o the_o minister_n keep_v to_o the_o institution_n the_o grace_n of_o the_o sacrament_n may_v be_v convey_v though_o he_o have_v it_o not_o himself_o this_o dr._n st._n think_v very_o pertinent_a to_o show_v that_o where_o power_n and_o authority_n be_v convey_v by_o man_n only_o as_o instrument_n the_o particular_a default_n of_o such_o person_n as_o heresy_n or_o idolatry_n do_v not_o hinder_v the_o derivation_n of_o that_o power_n or_o authority_n to_o they_o and_o this_o he_o prove_v to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o ordination_n of_o heretic_n it_o be_v true_a he_o do_v not_o then_o speak_v to_o authority_n so_o much_o as_o to_o power_n nor_o to_o jurisdiction_n as_o it_o be_v call_v by_o the_o school_n divine_v so_o much_o as_o to_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n but_o he_o proceed_v upon_o a_o parity_n of_o reason_n in_o both_o case_n and_o can_v not_o imagine_v that_o any_o person_n will_v suppose_v the_o christian_a church_n will_v allow_v a_o validity_n of_o order_n without_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v those_o order_n for_o in_o all_o the_o instance_n produce_v by_o he_o from_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a wherein_o undeniable_a example_n be_v bring_v of_o ordination_n of_o heretic_n allow_v by_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o council_n even_o those_o of_o nice_a ephesus_n and_o chalcedon_n it_o be_v apparent_a that_o their_o authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v their_o power_n of_o order_n be_v allow_v as_o well_o as_o their_o ordination_n for_o he_o there_o show_v that_o anatolius_n the_o precedent_n of_o the_o four_o council_n be_v ordain_v by_o dioscorus_n in_o the_o presence_n of_o eutyches_n that_o many_o of_o the_o bishop_n who_o sit_v in_o the_o six_o council_n be_v ordain_v by_o sergius_n pyrrhus_n paulus_n and_o petrus_n who_o in_o that_o council_n be_v declare_v heretic_n and_o do_v t._n g._n in_o earnest_n think_v this_o do_v not_o prove_v they_o have_v lawful_a authority_n what_o become_v then_o of_o the_o authority_n of_o these_o council_n nay_o of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n itself_o when_o tarasius_n there_o say_v as_o dr._n st._n produce_v he_o they_o have_v no_o other_o ordination_n for_o fifty_o year_n together_o do_v this_o prove_v either_o dr._n st.'s_n ignorance_n or_o tergiversation_n be_v not_o this_o rather_o plain_a and_o convince_a evidence_n that_o the_o christian_a church_n do_v allow_v not_o bare_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n by_o heretic_n but_o the_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n which_o he_o likewise_o prove_v by_o the_o greek_a ordination_n allow_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n by_o which_o he_o do_v not_o mean_v the_o validity_n of_o the_o bare_a order_n but_o all_o that_o power_n and_o authority_n which_o be_v consequent_a upon_o they_o for_o can_v any_o man_n be_v so_o senseless_a to_o think_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n only_o allow_v the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n among_o the_o greek_n without_o any_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_v or_o absolve_v what_o mean_v then_o these_o horrible_a clamour_n by_o tg_n of_o dr._n st.'s_n ignorance_n intolerable_a mistake_n shameful_a error_n tergiversation_n and_o what_o not_o because_o he_o speak_v only_o to_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n and_o not_o to_o the_o lawful_a authority_n of_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n whereas_o the_o contrary_a appear_v by_o that_o very_a preface_n about_o which_o these_o outcry_n be_v make_v by_o e._n w._n and_o t._n g._n what_o ingenuity_n be_v to_o be_v expect_v from_o these_o man_n who_o deny_v that_o which_o they_o can_v but_o see_v r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n give_v this_o for_o a_o taste_n 132._o not_o only_o what_o candour_n and_o sincerity_n but_o what_o skill_n in_o church-affair_n you_o be_v to_o expect_v in_o the_o rest_n from_o dr._n st._n which_o sure_o he_o will_v never_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v speak_v to_o the_o point_n p._n d._n you_o may_v think_v as_o you_o please_v of_o he_o i_o only_o tell_v you_o the_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o then_o do_v you_o judge_v where_o the_o candour_n and_o sincerity_n where_o the_o skill_n in_o church_n affair_n lie_v r._n p._n but_o be_v it_o not_o a_o undeniable_a maxim_n that_o no_o man_n can_v give_v to_o another_o that_o which_o he_o have_v not_o himself_o and_o therefore_o it_o lie_v open_a to_o the_o conscience_n of_o every_o man_n that_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guilty_a of_o heresy_n much_o more_o if_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n 134._o it_o fall_v under_o the_o apostle_n excommunication_n gal._n 1.8_o and_o so_o remain_v deprive_v of_o the_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o consequent_o the_o authority_n of_o govern_v preach_a etc._n etc._n this_o you_o see_v bid_v fair_a towards_o the_o subversion_n of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n when_o the_o schism_n begin_v because_o excommunicate_v person_n be_v deprive_v of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n themselves_o can_v give_v none_o to_o other_o and_o if_o those_o other_o take_v any_o upon_o they_o it_o must_v be_v usurp_v and_o unlawful_a p._n d._n this_o be_v the_o terrible_a argument_n which_o t._n g._n produce_v again_o in_o triumph_n as_o though_o nothing_o be_v able_a to_o stand_v before_o it_o and_o yet_o in_o my_o mind_n t._n g._n himself_o have_v mighty_o weaken_v it_o by_o yield_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n make_v by_o heretic_n or_o idolater_n for_o if_o no_o man_n can_v give_v that_o which_o he_o have_v not_o how_o can_v those_o give_v power_n and_o authority_n who_o have_v none_o but_o the_o power_n of_o order_n do_v necessary_o carry_v authority_n along_o with_o it_o for_o it_o be_v part_n of_o the_o form_n of_o order_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la 4._o quorum_fw-la remiseritis_fw-la etc._n etc._n so_o that_o a_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v be_v give_v by_o virtue_n of_o the_o very_a form_n of_o order_n and_o your_o divine_n say_v the_o form_n be_v not_o complete_a without_o it_o but_o then_o i_o pray_v resolve_v i_o these_o question_n
as_o be_v now_o plain_a from_o marcellinus_n and_o faustinus_n who_o book_n be_v publish_v by_o sirmondus_n at_o paris_n where_o sulpitius_n severus_n say_v more_o than_o four_o hundred_o western_a bishop_n be_v present_a who_o be_v all_o excommunicate_v by_o t._n g.'s_n principle_n and_o what_o now_o become_v of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n but_o dr._n st._n have_v show_v that_o the_o christian_a church_n be_v wise_a than_o to_o proceed_v upon_o t._n g.'s_n principle_n prove_v from_o authentic_a testimony_n of_o antiquity_n that_o the_o arian_n ordination_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o church_n although_o the_o arian_n be_v condemn_v for_o idolater_n r._n p._n 157._o yes_o t._n g._n say_v that_o dr._n st._n be_v resolve_v to_o go_v on_o in_o the_o same_o tract_n still_o and_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o act_n itself_o of_o ordination_n be_v not_o invalid_a in_o case_n of_o the_o idolatry_n of_o the_o giver_n which_o be_v never_o deny_v by_o his_o adversary_n p._n d._n how_o be_v it_o 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indifferent_a rite_n there_o have_v be_v some_o reason_n for_o what_o t._n g._n sai_z but_o the_o force_n of_o what_o dr._n st._n say_v lie_v not_o mere_o in_o their_o have_a no_o image_n in_o church_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n but_o in_o the_o reason_n give_v by_o the_o primitive_a christian_n against_o the_o worship_n of_o they_o from_o whence_o he_o have_v at_o large_a prove_v that_o the_o primitive_a christian_n do_v look_v on_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n as_o utter_o unlawful_a by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n although_o the_o object_n represent_v do_v deserve_v worship_n and_o this_o i_o take_v to_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o material_a discourse_n in_o dr._n st.'s_n book_n to_o the_o present_a controversy_n and_o which_o he_o lay_v the_o great_a weight_n upon_o for_o he_o insist_o upon_o these_o several_a particular_n 1._o 428._o that_o they_o judge_v such_o a_o representation_n of_o god_n by_o image_n to_o be_v unsuitable_a to_o his_o nature_n for_o which_o he_o produce_v the_o testimony_n of_o clemens_n alexandr_n justin_n martyr_n athenagoras_n origen_n s._n hierom_n s._n augustin_n and_o other_o 2._o etc._n that_o they_o look_v on_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n as_o repugnant_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n as_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o second_o commandment_n which_o do_v oblige_v christian_n 3._o etc._n that_o to_o suppose_v that_o they_o look_v on_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n as_o a_o thing_n indifferent_a be_v to_o charge_v the_o primitive_a christian_n with_o great_a hypocrisy_n 4._o 505._o that_o the_o christian_a church_n continue_v to_o have_v the_o same_o opinion_n about_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n after_o the_o pagan_a idolatry_n be_v suppress_v 5._o 521._o that_o it_o be_v no_o just_a excuse_n in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o they_o worship_v a_o true_a object_n or_o give_v only_o a_o inferior_a worship_n to_o the_o image_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o those_o represent_v by_o they_o 6._o etc._n that_o ignorance_n 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material_a thing_n be_v never_o enter_v which_o he_o be_v accountable_a for_o and_o how_o much_o he_o have_v borrow_v upon_o the_o bona_n fides_n of_o the_o fanatic_a historian_n all_o the_o rest_n will_v amount_v to_o a_o very_a pitiful_a discharge_n but_o since_o no_o better_a payment_n can_v be_v have_v let_v we_o at_o least_o examine_v this_o for_o this_o bona_n fides_n be_v a_o kind_n of_o republican_n public_a faith_n which_o no_o body_n will_v trust_v twice_o not_o so_o much_o as_o for_o bodkin_n and_o thimble_n f._n c._n hold_v sir_n you_o love_v always_o to_o be_v rub_v upon_o old_a sore_n have_v you_o forget_v the_o act_n of_o oblivion_n you_o know_v we_o dare_v not_o speak_v what_o we_o think_v of_o those_o time_n now_o and_o be_v that_o fair_a to_o accuse_v when_o we_o dare_v not_o answer_v mind_v your_o own_o business_n defend_v the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o you_o can_v in_o that_o idolatrous_a practice_n of_o bow_v to_o the_o altar_n i_o always_o think_v what_o it_o 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work_n which_o be_v neither_o from_o mathematical_a demonstration_n nor_o supernatural_a infallibility_n he_o call_v moral_a certainty_n which_o he_o may_v do_v from_o these_o ground_n 1._o because_o the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n from_o the_o creature_n depend_v upon_o some_o moral_a principle_n viz._n from_o the_o suitableness_n and_o fitness_n of_o thing_n to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o a_o intelligent_a and_o infinite_a agent_n who_o may_v from_o thence_o be_v infer_v to_o be_v the_o maker_n of_o they_o it_o be_v unconceivable_a that_o mere_a matter_n shall_v ever_o produce_v thing_n in_o so_o much_o beauty_n order_n and_o usefulness_n as_o we_o see_v in_o every_o creature_n in_o a_o ant_n or_o a_o fly_n as_o much_o as_o in_o the_o vast_a body_n of_o the_o heaven_n 2._o because_o they_o do_v suppose_v some_o moral_a disposition_n in_o the_o person_n who_o do_v most_o ready_o and_o firm_o assent_v to_o these_o truth_n for_o although_o man_n make_v use_v of_o the_o high_a title_n 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be_v some_o principle_n relate_v to_o it_o which_o have_v metaphysical_a certainty_n in_o they_o as_o that_o whatever_o god_n reveal_v be_v impossible_a to_o be_v false_a or_o as_o it_o be_v common_o express_v though_o improper_o be_v infallible_o true_a 2._o that_o there_o be_v a_o rational_a certainty_n that_o a_o doctrine_n confirm_v by_o such_o miracle_n as_o be_v wrought_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n must_v come_v from_o god_n that_o be_v the_o most_o certain_a criterion_n of_o divine_a revelation_n 3._o that_o there_o be_v a_o physical_a certainty_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n miracle_n and_o resurrection_n from_o the_o dead_a in_o the_o apostle_n who_o be_v eye-witness_n of_o they_o 4._o that_o there_o be_v a_o infallible_a certainty_n in_o the_o apostle_n deliver_v this_o doctrine_n to_o the_o world_n and_o write_v it_o for_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n 5._o that_o we_o have_v a_o moral_a certainty_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o fact_n which_o do_v concern_v the_o doctrine_n the_o miracle_n and_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v of_o the_o same_o kind_n with_o the_o certainty_n those_o have_v of_o christ_n doctrine_n and_o miracle_n who_o live_v in_o mesopotamia_n at_o that_o time_n which_o must_v depend_v upon_o the_o credibility_n of_o the_o witness_n who_o convey_v these_o thing_n which_o be_v a_o moral_a consideration_n and_o therefore_o the_o certainty_n which_o be_v take_v from_o it_o may_v be_v proper_o call_v moral_a certainty_n of_o which_o there_o be_v many_o degree_n the_o high_a be_v here_o understand_v which_o any_o matter_n of_o fact_n be_v capable_a of_o and_o now_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o reason_n have_v there_o be_v for_o all_o this_o noise_n about_o moral_a certainty_n r._n p._n t._n g._n own_v that_o the_o dr._n in_o other_o place_n do_v acknowledge_v a_o true_a certainty_n of_o the_o principle_n of_o religion_n but_o he_o say_v he_o can_v say_v and_o unsay_v without_o retract_v 209._o with_o as_o much_o art_n and_o ease_n as_o any_o man_n he_o ever_o read_v p._n d._n i_o have_v think_v unsay_n have_v be_v retract_v but_o dr._n st._n say_v as_o much_o in_o those_o very_a place_n t._n g._n object_n against_o as_o in_o those_o he_o allow_v only_a t._n g._n delight_n in_o cavil_v above_o most_o author_n i_o have_v ever_o read_v r._n p._n but_o do_v not_o dr._n st._n allow_v a_o possibility_n of_o falsehood_n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o pretence_n of_o certainty_n 210._o p._n d._n whatever_o be_v true_a be_v impossible_a to_o be_v false_a and_o the_o same_o degree_n of_o evidence_n any_o one_o have_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n he_o have_v of_o the_o impossibility_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o it_o therefore_o he_o that_o have_v a_o undoubted_a certainty_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o christianity_n have_v the_o same_o certainty_n that_o it_o be_v impossible_a it_o shall_v be_v false_a and_o because_o possibility_n and_o impossibility_n be_v capable_a of_o the_o same_o distinction_n that_o certainty_n be_v therefore_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n and_o degree_n of_o certainty_n be_v the_o possibility_n or_o impossibility_n of_o falsehood_n that_o which_o be_v metaphysical_o certain_a be_v so_o impossible_a to_o be_v false_a that_o it_o imply_v a_o contradiction_n to_o be_v otherwise_o but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o in_o physical_a certainty_n nor_o in_o all_o rational_a certainty_n nor_o in_o moral_a and_o yet_o wherever_o any_o man_n be_v certain_a of_o the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n he_o be_v proportionable_o certain_a that_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v false_a r._n p._n this_o only_o relate_v to_o the_o person_n and_o not_o to_o the_o evidence_n be_v there_o any_o such_o evidence_n of_o the_o existence_n of_o a_o deity_n as_o can_v infallible_o convince_v it_o to_o be_v absolute_o true_a and_o so_o impossible_a to_o be_v false_a p._n d._n i_o do_v not_o doubt_v but_o that_o there_o be_v such_o evidence_n of_o the_o be_v of_o god_n as_o do_v prove_v it_o to_o any_o unprejudiced_a mind_n impossible_a to_o be_v otherwise_o and_o t._n g._n have_v no_o reason_n to_o doubt_v of_o this_o from_o any_o thing_n dr._n st._n have_v say_v who_o have_v endeavour_v so_o early_o to_o prove_v the_o be_v of_o god_n and_o the_o principle_n of_o christian_a faith_n 3_o before_o he_o set_v himself_o to_o consider_v the_o controversy_n which_o have_v happen_v in_o the_o christian_a church_n t._n g._n therefore_o may_v well_o have_v spare_v these_o reflection_n in_o a_o debate_n of_o so_o different_a a_o nature_n but_o that_o he_o be_v glad_a of_o a_o opportunity_n to_o go_v off_o from_o the_o business_n as_o man_n be_v that_o know_v they_o be_v not_o like_a to_o bring_v it_o to_o a_o good_a issue_n r._n p._n t._n g._n confess_v this_o be_v a_o digression_n but_o he_o promise_v to_o return_v to_o the_o matter_n and_o so_o he_o do_v i_o assure_v you_o for_o he_o come_v to_o the_o second_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v the_o dr._n ought_v to_o have_v do_v 213._o viz._n to_o have_v show_v how_o the_o notion_n of_o idolatry_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o her_o council_n p._n d._n it_o be_v a_o wonder_n to_o i_o you_o shall_v think_v he_o defective_a in_o this_o when_o he_o show_v that_o there_o be_v two_o thing_n from_o whence_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v to_o be_v take_v 1._o from_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n 2._o from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n 1._o from_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n and_o here_o 605._o he_o enter_v upon_o the_o consideration_n of_o what_o that_o worship_n be_v which_o be_v require_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n and_o show_v from_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n and_o from_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o most_o eminent_a divine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o it_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o worship_v before_o image_n and_o to_o have_v a_o intention_n to_o perform_v those_o external_a act_n but_o there_o must_v be_v a_o inward_a intention_n to_o worship_v the_o image_n themselves_o and_o that_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n be_v esteem_v little_o better_a than_o downright_a heresy_n 2._o from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o he_o show_v many_o of_o your_o best_a divine_n go_v upon_o this_o principle_n that_o god_n will_v not_o suffer_v his_o church_n to_o err_v and_o therefore_o they_o think_v the_o allow_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n sufficient_a for_o they_o to_o defend_v those_o thing_n to_o be_v lawful_a which_o they_o see_v general_o practise_v and_o from_o hence_o he_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v go_v beyond_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a in_o two_o thing_n 1._o in_o make_v and_o worship_v image_n of_o god_n and_o the_o b._n trinity_n which_o be_v 575._o esteem_v madness_n and_o pagan_a idolatry_n in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o
second_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o be_v justify_v by_o the_o modern_a divine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o the_o general_a practice_n of_o their_o church_n 2._o in_o give_v the_o worship_n of_o latria_n to_o image_n 639._o which_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o notwithstanding_o be_v defend_v by_o multitude_n of_o divine_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n from_o the_o allow_a practice_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o cross_n both_o before_o and_o after_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n after_o which_o he_o inquire_v at_o large_a into_o the_o public_a office_n and_o commend_v devotion_n of_o that_o church_n in_o respect_n to_o image_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o 699._o prove_v that_o 1._o as_o to_o consecration_n of_o image_n for_o worship_n 2._o as_o to_o the_o rite_n of_o supplication_n to_o they_o 3._o as_o to_o pompous_a procession_n with_o they_o the_o modern_a church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o fall_v short_a of_o the_o practice_n of_o pagan_a rome_n and_o do_v you_o think_v all_o this_o be_v not_o apply_v the_o notion_n of_o idolatry_n home_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n when_o 1._o he_o show_v by_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a the_o modern_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v chargeable_a with_o idolatry_n 2._o that_o the_o practice_n agreeable_a with_o that_o council_n be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n by_o the_o western_a church_n in_o the_o council_n of_o francford_n not_o from_o any_o mistake_n of_o their_o meaning_n but_o because_o they_o look_v on_o the_o worship_n then_o decree_v to_o be_v proper_a adoration_n r._n p._n 214._o but_o t._n g._n say_v if_o the_o worship_n define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a be_v inferior_a worship_n and_o not_o latria_n as_o dr._n st._n confess_v than_o nothing_o can_v be_v clear_a than_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o worship_n due_a to_o god_n and_o consequent_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v be_v chargeable_a with_o idolatry_n from_o any_o thing_n 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goddess_n they_o worship_v whereas_o if_o the_o country_n fellow_n have_v go_v up_o into_o the_o court_n and_o see_v the_o ancient_a servant_n make_v their_o reverence_n after_o dinner_n in_o the_o presence_n chamber_n he_o will_v soon_o have_v be_v better_o inform_v if_o some_o of_o the_o old_a courtier_n have_v tell_v he_o it_o be_v the_o ancient_a custom_n of_o the_o court_n to_o make_v their_o reverence_n in_o all_o chamber_n of_o presence_n and_o from_o thence_o when_o they_o go_v into_o his_o majesty_n chapel_n they_o use_v the_o same_o custom_n out_o of_o reverence_n to_o god_n almighty_a who_o presence-chamber_n they_o account_v the_o chapel_n to_o be_v what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o give_v religious_a worship_n to_o the_o altar_n wherein_o the_o force_n of_o all_o t._n g._n sai_z must_v lie_v r._n p._n but_o you_o do_v bow_n before_o the_o altar_n as_o we_o do_v before_o image_n p._n d._n i_o utter_o deny_v that_o for_o your_o church_n declare_v bow_v before_o image_n without_o 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make_v the_o inferior_a and_o relative_a worship_n of_o a_o creature_n to_o be_v idolatry_n notwithstanding_o greg._n nyssens_n oration_n upon_o theodore_n r._n p._n i_o be_o like_o t._n g._n who_o hate_v a_o great_a book_n upon_o one_o subject_n so_o do_v i_o a_o long_a discourse_n upon_o one_o argument_n methinks_v greg._n nyssen_n have_v take_v up_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o our_o time_n and_o i_o have_v something_o more_o yet_o to_o say_v to_o you_o before_o we_o part_v p._n d._n i_o pray_v let_v i_o hear_v it_o and_o i_o suppose_v it_o will_v admit_v of_o a_o quick_a dispatch_n r._n p._n it_o be_v upon_o the_o same_o head_n of_o the_o doctor_n fidelity_n in_o quote_v author_n and_o it_o concern_v the_o passage_n in_o arnobius_n in_o which_o t._n g._n charge_v he_o with_o cog_a in_o the_o word_n divinity_n in_o the_o singular_a number_n instead_o of_o adorable_a deity_n in_o the_o plural_a 252._o and_o dr._n st._n answer_v with_o a_o protestation_n that_o he_o translate_v these_o 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translate_v now_o say_v t._n g._n those_o be_v the_o word_n of_o arnobius_n to_o the_o heathen_a what_o then_o do_v he_o not_o confute_v they_o in_o something_o which_o they_o hold_v if_o he_o prove_v nihil_fw-la numinis_fw-la inesse_fw-la simulachris_fw-la must_v not_o they_o hold_v aliquid_fw-la numinis_fw-la etc._n etc._n so_o that_o it_o come_v all_o to_o one_o but_o to_o put_v this_o out_o of_o all_o doubt_n if_o t._n g._n have_v look_v a_o little_a far_o he_o may_v have_v find_v these_o very_a word_n of_o the_o heathen_n illud_fw-la etiam_fw-la dicere_fw-la simulachrorum_fw-la assertores_fw-la solent_fw-la 208._o sure_o these_o be_v the_o heathen_n non_fw-la ignorasse_fw-la antiquos_fw-la nihil_fw-la habere_fw-la numinis_fw-la signa_fw-la what_o do_v t._n g._n think_v now_o have_v he_o not_o better_o look_v more_o about_o he_o before_o he_o make_v such_o rude_a and_o impertinent_a clamour_n about_o dr._n st.'s_n insincerity_n in_o quote_v author_n of_o which_o you_o may_v judge_v by_o this_o one_o instance_n where_o himself_o be_v so_o notorious_o faulty_a and_o yet_o from_o hence_o he_o conclude_v what_o a_o sad_a account_n of_o citation_n we_o be_v like_a to_o have_v from_o he_o 257._o r._n p._n what_o say_v you_o to_o dr._n st.'s_n observation_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n about_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n p._n d._n have_v you_o ever_o be_v a_o hunt_n of_o squirrel_n r._n p._n why_o do_v you_o ask_v i_o such_o a_o impertinent_a question_n p._n d._n not_o so_o impertinent_a as_o you_o think_v for_o the_o squirrel_n leap_v from_o bough_n to_o bough_n forward_o and_o backward_o be_v just_a like_o t._n g.'s_n answer_n to_o dr._n st.'s_n book_n for_o he_o make_v nothing_o of_o leap_v a_o hundred_o or_o two_o hundred_o page_n forward_o and_o backward_o as_o the_o humour_n take_v he_o however_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o he_o have_v to_o say_v to_o those_o observation_n for_o i_o remember_v very_o well_o what_o the_o design_n of_o they_o be_v 614._o viz._n that_o though_o the_o worship_n of_o latria_n be_v own_v before_o it_o by_o many_o divine_n to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n and_o that_o be_v against_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a yet_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n allow_v all_o external_a act_n of_o adoration_n of_o image_n give_v no_o intimation_n against_o this_o kind_n of_o worship_n and_o since_o it_o many_o of_o the_o most_o eminent_a divine_n of_o your_o church_n have_v justify_v the_o give_v latria_n to_o image_n and_o that_o from_o the_o word_n of_o this_o council_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v 214._o those_o very_a divine_n do_v not_o mean_v by_o latria_n proper_a divine_a worship_n which_o be_v due_a to_o god_n and_o terminate_v upon_o he_o but_o that_o the_o act_n be_v in_o their_o opinion_n one_o in_o substance_n to_o the_o prototype_n and_o the_o image_n it_o be_v terminate_v absolute_o upon_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n for_o himself_o and_o fall_v upon_o the_o image_n after_o a_o inferior_a manner_n as_o a_o thing_n only_o relate_v to_o he_o and_o pure_o for_o his_o sake_n for_o which_o reason_n some_o call_v it_o relative_a latria_n other_o secundary_a other_o improper_a other_o analogical_a other_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la and_o the_o dispute_n in_o effect_n be_v rather_o the_o modo_fw-la loquendi_fw-la than_o of_o the_o thing_n itself_o p._n d._n to_o clear_v this_o matter_n we_o must_v consider_v 1._o that_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a do_v deny_v latria_n to_o be_v give_v to_o a_o image_n 2._o that_o the_o divine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v say_v that_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n can_v be_v defend_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o cross_n without_o give_v latria_n to_o it_o 3._o that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o just_a occasion_n be_v give_v declare_v nothing_o against_o this_o for_o although_o it_o refer_v to_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a yet_o when_o it_o give_v the_o reason_n of_o worship_n it_o do_v it_o in_o such_o term_n that_o many_o of_o your_o divine_n say_v must_v infer_v the_o worship_n of_o latria_n to_o be_v give_v to_o they_o r._n p._n what_o if_o it_o do_v say_v t._n g._n since_o it_o be_v only_o a_o dispute_n about_o word_n and_o all_o agree_v that_o the_o worship_n proper_a to_o god_n signify_v primary_o by_o the_o word_n latria_n be_v not_o to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n p._n d._n that_o must_v be_v a_o little_a better_o consider_v for_o do_v you_o think_v it_o be_v possible_a to_o give_v the_o worship_n proper_a to_o god_n to_o a_o image_n or_o not_o if_o it_o be_v not_o why_o do_v the_o council_n of_o nice_a declare_v against_o it_o if_o it_o be_v tell_v i_o in_o what_o act_v that_o worship_n of_o latria_n do_v consist_v r._n p._n it_o be_v when_o man_n give_v proper_a divine_a honour_n to_o a_o image_n p._n d._n what_o be_v this_o proper_a divine_a honour_n for_o you_o be_v not_o one_o step_n forward_a by_o this_o answer_n i_o see_v i_o must_v come_v to_o particular_n be_v the_o gnostic_n and_o ancient_a heretic_n to_o blame_v in_o their_o worship_n of_o image_n or_o not_o r._n p._n no_o doubt_v they_o be_v for_o they_o stand_v condemn_v by_o the_o church_n for_o that_o worship_n they_o give_v to_o image_n p._n d._n wherein_o do_v their_o fault_n lie_v r._n p._n in_o give_v divine_a honour_n and_o worship_n to_o the_o image_n p._n d._n do_v not_o they_o worship_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n r._n p._n and_o what_o then_o p._n d._n then_o their_o fault_n lie_v in_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n r._n p._n yes_o proper_a divine_a worship_n p._n d._n what_o be_v that_o proper_a divine_a worship_n be_v it_o absolute_a or_o relative_a r._n p._n absolute_a p._n d._n then_o it_o be_v give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o image_n of_o christ_n without_o respect_n to_o christ_n which_o be_v either_o nonsense_n or_o a_o contradiction_n be_v it_o possible_a to_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o image_n of_o a_o person_n without_o respect_n to_o the_o person_n man_n may_v worship_v a_o piece_n of_o wood_n or_o a_o stone_n without_o respect_n to_o a_o person_n but_o to_o worship_v that_o which_o represent_v and_o on_o that_o account_n because_o it_o represent_v without_o any_o respect_n to_o what_o it_o represent_v be_v a_o contradiction_n therefore_o the_o worship_n of_o a_o image_n as_o such_o be_v a_o relative_a worship_n and_o proper_a latria_n as_o give_v to_o a_o image_n be_v relative_a latria_n r._n p._n but_o man_n may_v give_v absolute_a divine_a worship_n to_o a_o image_n for_o may_v not_o a_o man_n join_v in_o his_o mind_n the_o image_n and_o person_n represent_v as_o one_o object_n of_o worship_n and_o so_o give_v proper_a divine_a worship_n to_o both_o consider_v as_o one_o p._n d._n i_o thank_v you_o
different_a act._n if_o the_o same_o act_n then_o there_o be_v a_o double_a worship_n and_o but_o one_o act_n for_o there_o be_v a_o absolute_a worship_n of_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o relative_a worship_n of_o the_o image_n and_o let_v it_o be_v relative_a or_o what_o it_o will_v it_o be_v a_o real_a act_n of_o worship_n and_o so_o there_o must_v be_v two_o act_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v but_o one_o act._n for_o be_v the_o image_n or_o cross_n worship_v or_o not_o if_o it_o be_v worship_v there_o must_v be_v a_o act_n of_o worship_n terminate_v on_o it_o and_o how_o can_v there_o be_v a_o act_n of_o worship_n terminate_v upon_o it_o if_o the_o same_o act_n pass_v from_o the_o image_n to_o the_o prototype_n these_o be_v unintelligible_a subtlety_n and_o only_o invent_v to_o confound_v man_n understanding_n as_o to_o the_o true_a and_o distinct_a notion_n of_o divine_a worship_n and_o to_o blind_v their_o mind_n in_o the_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n far_o if_o this_o be_v a_o difference_n only_a de_fw-fr modo_fw-la loquendi_fw-la as_o t._n g._n say_v than_o the_o very_a same_o act_n may_v be_v proper_a and_o improper_a absolute_a and_o relative_a per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la for_o so_o t._n g._n say_v that_o it_o be_v one_o act_n in_o substance_n but_o it_o be_v absolute_a as_o terminate_v on_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n relative_a as_o on_o the_o cross_n proper_a in_o one_o sense_n improper_a in_o the_o other_o per_fw-la se_fw-la in_o the_o former_a sense_n per_fw-la accidens_fw-la in_o the_o late_a which_o catharinus_n think_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o ridiculous_a last_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n but_o may_v be_v worship_v with_o latria_n by_o the_o help_n of_o these_o distinction_n for_o a_o divine_a presence_n in_o the_o creature_n be_v real_o asleep_o far_o better_a ground_n of_o worship_n than_o a_o bare_a fiction_n of_o the_o mind_n that_o the_o image_n and_o the_o thing_n represent_v be_v all_o one_o but_o of_o this_o we_o have_v discourse_v already_o r._n p._n to_o tell_v you_o plain_o my_o mind_n i_o never_o like_v this_o give_v latria_n to_o image_n myself_o but_o it_o be_v a_o common_a doctrine_n in_o our_o church_n we_o ought_v to_o say_v as_o much_o for_o it_o as_o we_o can_v but_o i_o be_o only_o for_o a_o inferior_a worship_n to_o be_v give_v to_o they_o and_o so_o be_v t._n g._n if_o i_o do_v not_o much_o mistake_v his_o meaning_n p._n d._n let_v we_o then_o consider_v this_o inferior_a worship_n as_o distinct_a from_o latria_n and_o concern_v this_o i_o shall_v prove_v that_o it_o neither_o answer_v the_o reason_n give_v by_o council_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n 1._o not_o the_o reason_n give_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o trent_n for_o which_o i_o desire_v but_o these_o two_o postulata_fw-la 1._o that_o image_n be_v to_o have_v true_a and_o proper_a worship_n give_v to_o they_o which_o be_v express_o determine_v by_o those_o council_n 2._o that_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o worship_n be_v nothing_o inherent_a in_o the_o image_n but_o something_o represent_v by_o it_o which_o be_v affirm_v by_o those_o council_n from_o hence_o i_o argue_v thus_o to_o worship_n christ_n only_o before_o a_o image_n be_v not_o to_o give_v proper_a worship_n to_o the_o image_n which_o the_o council_n require_v to_o be_v give_v therefore_o either_o the_o image_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v for_o itself_o which_o be_v idolatry_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n or_o christ_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v in_o and_o by_o the_o image_n r._n p._n christ_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v in_o and_o by_o the_o image_n p._n d._n then_o you_o give_v christ_n the_o worship_n due_a to_o he_o or_o not_o r._n p._n the_o worship_n due_a to_o he_o p._n d._n but_o the_o worship_n due_a to_o christ_n be_v proper_a latria_n therefore_o you_o must_v give_v proper_a latria_n to_o christ_n as_o worship_v in_o and_o by_o the_o image_n r._n p._n true_a but_o we_o give_v it_o to_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n otherwise_o than_o to_o his_o person_n for_o we_o worship_v he_o absolute_o and_o the_o image_n respective_o and_o for_o his_o sake_n p._n d._n that_o be_v it_o which_o i_o will_v have_v that_o there_o be_v no_o worship_v a_o image_n on_o the_o account_n of_o representation_n but_o you_o must_v fall_v into_o the_o doctrine_n of_o relative_a latria_n r._n p._n but_o may_v not_o i_o show_v respect_n to_o the_o cross_n for_o christ_n sake_n without_o give_v the_o same_o worship_n to_o the_o cross_n that_o i_o do_v to_o christ_n p._n d._n that_o be_v not_o the_o question_n but_o whether_o you_o may_v worship_n christ_n in_o and_o by_o the_o cross_n represent_v his_o person_n without_o give_v that_o worship_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n for_o either_o you_o worship_v the_o cross_n for_o itself_o which_o you_o confess_v to_o be_v idolatry_n or_o you_o worship_n christ_n as_o represent_v by_o it_o if_o you_o worship_v christ_n you_o must_v 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14._o the_o better_a to_o wean_v the_o people_n from_o the_o sin_n of_o idolatry_n in_o which_o they_o have_v be_v train_v up_o from_o their_o very_a infancy_n and_o after_o he_o add_v the_o people_n of_o this_o last_o age_n be_v sufficient_o instruct_v in_o the_o unlawfulness_n of_o worship_v such_o paint_a image_n they_o may_v be_v lawful_o use_v in_o church_n without_o fear_n of_o idolatry_n what_o can_v this_o signify_v if_o he_o do_v not_o take_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n to_o be_v idolatry_n and_o therefore_o he_o can_v not_o look_v upon_o this_o as_o a_o heat_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n and_o which_o be_v quite_o spend_v in_o the_o time_n of_o b._n laud_n since_o not_o only_a p._n heylin_n but_o the_o archbishop_n himself_o say_v 277._o that_o the_o modern_a church_n of_o rome_n be_v too_o like_a paganism_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o drive_v to_o scarce_o intelligible_a subtlety_n in_o her_o servant_n write_n that_o defend_v it_o and_o this_o without_o any_o care_n have_v of_o million_o of_o soul_n unable_a to_o understand_v her_o subtlety_n or_o shun_v her_o practice_n and_o in_o his_o defence_n against_o the_o charge_n of_o the_o commons_o he_o say_v 472._o that_o he_o have_v write_v against_o the_o adoration_n and_o superstitious_a use_n of_o image_n as_o full_o as_o any_o man_n whatsoever_o what_o think_v you_o now_o sir_n be_v this_o a_o heat_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n and_o when_o man_n in_o archbishop_n laud_n time_n more_o due_o weigh_v the_o consequence_n of_o this_o charge_n they_o grow_v both_o cool_a and_o wise_a what_o evidence_n do_v t._n g._n produce_v for_o this_o when_o the_o very_a person_n he_o produce_v for_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o it_o that_o he_o say_v the_o contrary_a and_o
find_v it_o above_o a_o hundred_o year_n before_o in_o the_o liturgy_n of_o edw._n 6._o to_o which_o t._n g._n answer_n 19_o that_o the_o various_a fate_n of_o this_o rubric_n first_o in_o not_o be_v annex_v till_o the_o second_o liturgy_n of_o edw._n 6._o and_o be_v cast_v out_o again_o in_o the_o year_n 1562._o and_o then_o admit_v again_o almost_o a_o hundred_o year_n after_o be_v no_o eviction_n to_o he_o that_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n be_v the_o dogmatical_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o declaration_n our_o church_n have_v make_v of_o her_o sense_n and_o the_o intention_n of_o this_o rubric_n be_v only_o to_o declare_v this_o point_n of_o idolatry_n there_o be_v some_o probability_n in_o what_o t._n g._n suggest_v but_o i_o have_v show_v already_o how_o full_o our_o church_n have_v declare_v her_o sense_n about_o romish_a idolatry_n by_o other_o way_n and_o the_o design_n of_o this_o rubric_n be_v not_o to_o express_v her_o sense_n of_o idolatry_n so_o much_o as_o to_o give_v satisfaction_n to_o those_o who_o scruple_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o kneel_v for_o which_o cause_n it_o be_v first_o put_v in_o and_o afterward_o not_o think_v necessary_a to_o be_v continue_v when_o person_n be_v better_o satisfy_v about_o the_o intention_n of_o our_o church_n but_o when_o after_o long_a disuse_n and_o violent_a prejudices_fw-la the_o dissenter_n be_v grow_v unacquainted_a with_o the_o design_n and_o intention_n of_o our_o church_n there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n for_o insert_v it_o again_o which_o hold_v at_o first_o for_o put_v it_o in_o and_o what_o now_o have_v t._n g._n gain_v by_o this_o observation_n if_o it_o have_v be_v as_o he_o imagine_v what_o he_o have_v get_v in_o one_o point_n he_o have_v lose_v in_o another_o for_o than_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o heat_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n day_n if_o they_o be_v willing_a to_o leave_v out_o such_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o idolatry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o that_o time_n when_o q._n elizabeth_n title_n be_v the_o most_o dispute_v at_o rome_n so_o that_o from_o hence_o appear_v the_o vanity_n of_o t._n g.'s_n former_a observation_n and_o how_o far_o they_o be_v from_o take_v thing_n into_o our_o liturgy_n out_o of_o spite_n to_o the_o pope_n nay_o so_o far_o be_v they_o from_o this_o that_o in_o the_o first_o year_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n that_o petition_n in_o the_o litany_n be_v leave_v out_o which_o have_v be_v insert_v by_o henry_n 8._o and_o continue_v in_o both_o liturgy_n of_o edw._n 6._o 418._o from_o the_o tyranny_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o all_o his_o detestable_a enormity_n good_a lord_n and_o this_o he_o may_v have_v find_v in_o the_o same_o historian_n and_o be_v not_o the_o title_n of_o head_n of_o the_o church_n take_v by_o her_o father_n and_o brother_n so_o qualify_v and_o explain_v then_o as_o may_v prevent_v any_o occasion_n of_o quarrel_v at_o it_o by_o the_o most_o captious_a person_n do_v these_o passage_n look_v like_o do_v thing_n on_o purpose_n to_o provoke_v and_o exasperate_v and_o out_o of_o pure_a spite_n to_o the_o pope_n or_o like_o put_v in_o thing_n on_o purpose_n to_o heighten_v the_o difference_n when_o t._n g._n himself_o confess_v they_o leave_v out_o this_o rubric_n and_o it_o be_v evident_a they_o do_v leave_v out_o some_o of_o the_o most_o provoke_a expression_n r._n p._n i_o see_v you_o can_v bear_v the_o charge_n of_o intemperate_a heat_n on_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n p._n d._n i_o can_v bear_v such_o a_o unreasonable_a and_o unjust_a imputation_n as_o this_o be_v and_o i_o have_v a_o particular_a esteem_n for_o the_o wisdom_n learning_n and_o piety_n which_o be_v show_v in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a part_n of_o our_o reformation_n but_o how_o do_v t._n g._n take_v off_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n in_o this_o rubric_n r._n p._n 21._o he_o say_v he_o take_v the_o meaning_n of_o it_o not_o to_o be_v the_o deny_v adoration_n to_o be_v due_a in_o regard_n of_o christ_n body_n be_v present_a spiritual_o but_o true_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o only_o that_o no_o adoration_n ought_v to_o be_v do_v to_o any_o corporal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n as_o the_o word_n corporal_n be_v take_v to_o signify_v the_o natural_a manner_n of_o a_o body_n be_v present_a for_o which_o he_o give_v these_o reason_n 1._o because_o those_o word_n in_o the_o second_o liturgy_n of_o edw._n 6._o no_o adoration_n ought_v to_o be_v do_v to_o any_o real_a or_o essential_a be_v of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n be_v now_o change_v into_o any_o corporal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n 2._o because_o the_o protestant_a divine_n do_v yield_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n for_o which_o he_o quote_v bishop_n taylor_n and_o bishop_n cousin_n and_o he_o desire_v dr._n st._n so_o to_o explain_v these_o word_n as_o not_o to_o undermine_v the_o constant_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n concern_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o leave_v we_o nothing_o but_o pure_a zuinglianism_n in_o the_o place_n of_o it_o p._n d._n i_o be_o so_o much_o his_o friend_n that_o at_o this_o time_n i_o will_v undertake_v this_o task_n for_o he_o first_o we_o must_v consider_v the_o word_n of_o the_o rubric_n 2._o how_o this_o sense_n of_o it_o can_v be_v reconcile_v with_o the_o real_a presence_n as_o own_v by_o the_o church_n of_o england_n 1._o for_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o rubric_n we_o be_v to_o consider_v that_o the_o rubric_n deny_v adoration_n to_o be_v intend_v either_o unto_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n and_o wine_n or_o unto_o any_o corporal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n and_o after_o it_o give_v two_o distinct_a reason_n for_o deny_v adoration_n to_o either_o of_o these_o 1._o to_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n and_o wine_n for_o this_o reason_n because_o they_o 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substance_n after_o consecration_n 2._o that_o to_o adore_v they_o so_o remain_v be_v idolatry_n and_o to_o be_v abhor_v of_o all_o faithful_a christian_n no_o one_o question_n the_o former_a to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n the_o only_a question_n lie_v in_o the_o late_a whether_o that_o be_v idolatry_n or_o no_o it_o be_v no_o question_n that_o to_o give_v divine_a adoration_n to_o any_o creature_n be_v idolatry_n and_o it_o be_v so_o acknowledge_v on_o all_o side_n the_o only_a question_n than_o can_v be_v whether_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v a_o creature_n or_o not_o and_o this_o be_v no_o question_n with_o any_o man_n in_o his_o wit_n therefore_o to_o give_v adoration_n to_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v idolatry_n no_o demonstration_n
upward_o and_o downward_o forward_o and_o backward_o it_o may_v be_v hot_a in_o one_o place_n and_o cold_a in_o another_o it_o may_v be_v alive_a in_o one_o place_n and_o dead_a in_o another_o and_o which_o be_v the_o high_a contradiction_n one_o will_v think_v by_o force_n of_o this_o principle_n a_o man_n may_v be_v damn_v in_o one_o place_n and_o save_v in_o another_o and_o no_o less_o a_o man_n than_o ysambertus_n have_v defend_v the_o possibility_n of_o this_o upon_o this_o principle_n for_o 8._o say_v he_o a_o man_n as_o in_o one_o place_n may_v be_v kill_v in_o a_o mortal_a sin_n and_o so_o be_v damn_v whereas_o in_o another_o place_n he_o may_v have_v contrition_n and_o absolution_n and_o so_o be_v save_v but_o vasquez_n ask_v a_o untoward_a question_n 28._o suppose_v such_o a_o man_n be_v reduce_v to_o one_o place_n whether_o shall_v he_o be_v save_v or_o damn_v for_o he_o can_v then_o be_v both_o and_o there_o be_v no_o more_o reason_n he_o shall_v be_v put_v out_o of_o the_o state_n of_o grace_n by_o the_o state_n of_o sin_n than_o out_o of_o the_o state_n of_o sin_n by_o the_o state_n of_o grace_n such_o horrible_a contradiction_n do_v man_n run_v into_o rather_o than_o let_v go_v a_o absurd_a hypothesis_n and_o suarez_n confess_v that_o a_o sacramental_a presence_n be_v liable_a to_o the_o same_o contradiction_n because_o that_o suppose_v a_o capacity_n for_o act_n of_o the_o mind_n under_o it_o 4._o i_o say_v that_o assert_v a_o body_n to_o be_v present_a natural_o in_o one_o place_n and_o spiritual_o and_o indivisible_o in_o more_o do_v involve_v more_o contradiction_n in_o it_o than_o to_o be_v present_a in_o several_a place_n after_o a_o natural_a manner_n for_o the_o very_a manner_n of_o a_o body_n be_v present_a indivisible_o carry_v contradiction_n along_o with_o it_o peculiar_a to_o itself_o for_o wherever_o there_o be_v a_o body_n there_o must_v be_v quantity_n and_o wherever_o there_o be_v quantity_n there_o must_v be_v divisibility_n how_o 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here_o a_o body_n be_v suppose_v to_o have_v all_o its_o organical_a part_n head_z breast_n leg_n and_o foot_n and_o yet_o no_o local_a distance_n between_o head_n and_o foot_n r._n p._n i_o see_v it_o be_v a_o dangerous_a thing_n to_o give_v you_o but_o a_o hint_n about_o transubstantiation_n if_o you_o but_o once_o take_v the_o scent_n you_o run_v on_o so_o fast_o that_o it_o be_v a_o very_a hard_a matter_n to_o take_v you_o off_o i_o do_v not_o think_v this_o rubric_n can_v have_v hold_v we_o thus_o long_o but_o i_o see_v you_o be_v resolve_v to_o have_v two_o or_o three_o throw_n at_o transubstantiation_n in_o pass_v though_o i_o warn_v you_o before_o about_o it_o p._n d._n no_o sir_n it_o be_v t._n g.'s_n fix_v such_o a_o absurd_a sense_n upon_o our_o church_n as_o though_o she_o make_v it_o idolatry_n to_o worship_n christ_n body_n as_o present_v after_o a_o corporeal_a manner_n and_o not_o after_o another_o which_o make_v i_o insist_v so_o long_o upon_o this_o r._n p._n what_o say_v my_o fanatic_a acquaintance_n to_o all_o this_o what!_o sleep_v f._n c._n only_o a_o nod_n or_o two_o i_o hearken_v a_o while_n but_o i_o find_v you_o be_v about_o hard_a and_o unsavoury_a notion_n true_o it_o be_v to_o i_o no_o awaken_n discourse_n r._n p._n come_v come_v we_o will_v keep_v you_o wake_v we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o puritan_n cause_n f._n c._n ay_o ay_o there_o be_v some_o life_n in_o that_o r._n p._n what_o think_v you_o was_z robert_z abbot_z bishop_n of_o salisbury_z a_o puritan_n or_o not_o f._n c._n what!_o a_o bishop_n a_o puritan_n a_o good_a one_o i_o warrant_v you_o a_o puritan_n in_o lawn_n sleeve_n a_o puritan_n with_o cross_n and_o surplice_n you_o know_v well_o what_o belong_v to_o a_o puritan_n do_v you_o not_o i_o tell_v you_o there_o never_o be_v a_o true_a puritan_n but_o abhor_v these_o thing_n with_o all_o his_o heart_n what_o do_v you_o tell_v i_o of_o a_o bishop_n of_o salisbury_n for_o a_o puritan_n i_o say_v again_o if_o he_o have_v be_v so_o he_o will_v have_v take_v his_o lawn_n sleeve_n and_o throw_v they_o into_o the_o fire_n p._n d._n but_o i_o pray_v sir_n how_o come_v in_o this_o discourse_n about_o bishop_n abbot_n r._n p._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o among_o other_o divine_n produce_v by_o dr._n st._n to_o prove_v the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n maintain_v against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o k._n james_n his_o time_n one_o be_v bishop_n abbot_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o bishop_n t._n g._n take_v this_o to_o be_v archbishop_n abbot_n and_o except_v against_o he_o as_o a_o abettor_n of_o the_o puritan_n party_n and_o tell_v from_o dr._n heylin_n that_o on_o that_o account_n it_o be_v think_v necessary_a to_o suspend_v he_o from_o his_o metropolitical_a visitation_n dr._n st._n make_v sport_n with_o his_o suspend_v a_o bishop_n of_o salisbury_n from_o metropolitical_a jurisdiction_n and_o tell_v what_o strange_a thing_n those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v do_v with_o five_o word_n and_o upbraid_v t._n g._n with_o ignorance_n of_o our_o church_n and_o in_o truth_n be_v too_o tragical_a upon_o such_o a_o slight_a occasion_n now_o t._n g._n prove_v that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o mistake_n of_o the_o person_n and_o not_o of_o his_o quality_n although_o dr._n st._n say_v that_o he_o be_v never_o till_o now_o suspect_v for_o a_o puritan_n p._n d._n be_v you_o sure_a of_o that_o r._n p._n yes_o t._n g._n say_v so_o 27._o more_o than_o once_o p._n d._n however_o it_o be_v good_a to_o be_v sure_a these_o be_v dr._n st.'s_n word_n the_o two_o first_o he_o except_v against_o be_v the_o two_o archbishop_n whitgift_n and_o abbot_n as_o puritanical_o incline_v but_o as_o it_o unhappy_o fall_v out_o one_o of_o they_o be_v never_o mention_v by_o i_o and_o the_o other_o never_o till_o now_o suspect_v for_o a_o puritan_n i_o pray_v advise_v t._n g._n to_o read_v a_o little_a more_o careful_o before_o he_o confute_v be_v it_o not_o plain_a that_o he_o mean_v archbishop_n abbot_n be_v never_o mention_v by_o he_o and_o archbishop_n whitgift_n be_v never_o till_o now_o suspect_v for_o a_o puritan_n it_o can_v be_v no_o want_n of_o understanding_n in_o t._n g._n to_o make_v he_o thus_o misconstrue_v his_o word_n r._n p._n but_o he_o prove_v he_o be_v puritanical_o incline_v and_o take_v off_o his_o testimony_n p._n d._n how_o do_v he_o prove_v that_o r._n p._n from_o dr._n heylin_n who_o history_n serve_v we_o to_o many_o a_o good_a purpose_n for_o he_o say_v he_o be_v a_o calvinian_a though_o a_o moderate_a one_o that_o he_o be_v a_o enemy_n to_o bishop_n laud_n in_o the_o university_n that_o he_o commend_v mr._n perkins_n and_o write_v his_o last_o book_n of_o grace_n and_o perseverance_n of_o the_o saint_n p._n d._n very_o wonderful_a proof_n as_o though_o many_o of_o the_o stiff_a defender_n of_o our_o church_n against_o the_o puritan_n party_n have_v not_o be_v incline_v to_o calvinism_n as_o it_o be_v call_v in_o the_o point_n of_o predestination_n especial_o in_o that_o moderate_a way_n wherein_o r._n abbot_n assert_v it_o as_o though_o it_o be_v not_o possible_a for_o man_n to_o be_v zealous_a for_o our_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o election_n and_o perseverance_n but_o we_o do_v not_o want_v those_o of_o the_o high_a order_n of_o our_o church_n at_o this_o day_n who_o be_v eminent_a for_o learning_n and_o piety_n and_o zeal_n for_o the_o church_n who_o will_v take_v it_o very_o ill_a from_o t._n g._n upon_o the_o account_n of_o those_o opinion_n to_o be_v think_v enemy_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o no_o doubt_n the_o puritan_n be_v but_o t._n g._n run_v on_o with_o this_o perpetual_a mistake_n when_o
his_o own_o author_n dr._n heylin_n have_v tell_v he_o who_o he_o mean_v by_o puritan_n ed._n viz._n the_o nonconformist_n for_o speak_v of_o dr._n buckeridge_n bishop_n laud_n tutor_n he_o say_v that_o he_o oppose_v the_o papist_n on_o one_o hand_n and_o on_o the_o other_o the_o puritan_n or_o nonconformist_n these_o be_v very_o pitiful_a shift_n to_o overthrow_v bishop_n abbot_n testimony_n when_o dr._n heylin_n himself_o say_v of_o he_o 66._o he_o be_v so_o moderate_a a_o calvinian_a that_o he_o incur_v the_o high_a displeasure_n of_o the_o supralapsarian_o who_o have_v till_o then_o carry_v all_o before_o they_o but_o what_o say_v t._n g._n to_o those_o who_o he_o yield_v not_o to_o have_v be_v puritanical_o incline_v and_o yet_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n r._n p._n he_o say_v they_o do_v not_o impugn_v the_o doctrine_n itself_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o practice_n conformable_a to_o that_o doctrine_n but_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o conceive_v to_o be_v great_a abuse_n in_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o p._n d._n that_o will_v be_v best_a try_v by_o particular_n the_o first_o of_o these_o be_v no_o less_o a_o person_n than_o k._n james_n who_o call_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n damnable_a idolatry_n and_o dr._n st._n show_v that_o k._n james_n take_v off_o their_o distinction_n and_o evasion_n and_o say_v let_v they_o therefore_o that_o maintain_v this_o doctrine_n answer_v it_o to_o christ_n at_o the_o latter_a day_n when_o he_o shall_v accuse_v they_o of_o idolatry_n and_o then_o i_o doubt_v if_o he_o will_v be_v pay_v with_o such_o sophistical_a distinction_n be_v all_o this_o say_v d._n st._n nothing_o but_o to_o charge_v they_o with_o such_o practice_n which_o they_o detest_v do_v he_o not_o mention_v their_o doctrine_n and_o their_o distinction_n do_v not_o k._n james_n understand_v what_o he_o say_v and_o what_o they_o do_v what_o say_v t._n g._n to_o this_o r._n p._n not_o a_o word_n that_o i_o can_v find_v p._n d._n let_v we_o then_o see_v what_o he_o do_v take_v notice_n of_o r._n p._n a_o very_a notable_a thing_n i_o assure_v you_o he_o say_v they_o only_o find_v fault_n with_o some_o abuse_n commit_v in_o our_o church_n 33._o and_o do_v not_o think_v man_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o term_n of_o her_o communion_n force_v either_o to_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n as_o dr._n st._n do_v so_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n if_o true_o state_v out_o of_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o council_n or_o practice_n agreeable_a to_o that_o doctrine_n which_o these_o divine_n impeach_v as_o idolatrous_a but_o the_o opinion_n of_o some_o school-divines_a or_o abuse_v they_o conceive_v to_o be_v commit_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o and_o for_o this_o he_o instance_v in_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a about_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n p._n d._n who_o do_v not_o know_v t._n g._n to_o be_v a_o man_n of_o art_n and_o to_o understand_v the_o way_n of_o fence_v in_o the_o school_n as_o well_o as_o another_o be_v it_o not_o skilful_o do_v in_o this_o place_n to_o run_v to_o the_o point_n of_o image_n when_o we_o have_v be_v so_o late_o upon_o the_o idolatry_n in_o adoration_n of_o the_o host_n as_o it_o be_v declare_v in_o our_o rubric_n for_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v plain_a to_o all_o person_n about_o adoration_n of_o the_o host_n at_o the_o elevation_n of_o it_o and_o carry_v it_o about_o but_o in_o the_o matter_n of_o image_n they_o endeavour_v to_o palliate_v and_o disguise_v their_o allow_a practice_n as_o much_o as_o may_v be_v i_o answer_v therefore_o on_o behalf_n of_o dr._n st._n 1._o that_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o what_o man_n be_v oblige_v to_o do_v by_o virtue_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n he_o speak_v of_o the_o thing_n strict_o require_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o that_o church_n and_o since_o our_o church_n declare_v the_o mass_n idolatrous_a he_o do_v not_o in_o the_o least_o recede_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n in_o the_o disjunction_n he_o use_v either_o of_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n and_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o believe_v that_o be_v the_o thing_n he_o aim_v at_o chief_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o term_n of_o communion_n because_o he_o have_v often_o hear_v of_o some_o person_n who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n who_o be_v not_o oblige_v to_o make_v the_o same_o profession_n which_o ecclesiastical_a person_n be_v do_v content_a themselves_o with_o do_v the_o same_o external_a act_n which_o other_o do_v but_o with_o a_o very_a different_a intention_n who_o look_v upon_o transubstantiation_n and_o many_o other_o doctrine_n as_o foolish_a and_o ridiculous_a and_o yet_o think_v they_o may_v join_v with_o those_o who_o do_v believe_v they_o in_o all_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n rather_o than_o break_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n they_o live_v in_o such_o person_n will_v say_v they_o never_o worship_v the_o host_n and_o therefore_o excuse_v themselves_o from_o idolatry_n but_o dr._n st._n say_v they_o can_v then_o excuse_v themselves_o from_o hypocrisy_n because_o they_o seem_v to_o give_v the_o same_o worship_n which_o the_o other_o do_v 2._o as_o to_o the_o idolatry_n commit_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n we_o shall_v consider_v that_o in_o its_o proper_a place_n but_o yet_o by_o virtue_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n all_o person_n be_v 1._o bind_v to_o declare_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n lawful_a as_o it_o be_v practise_v in_o that_o church_n 2._o to_o worship_v image_n upon_o occasion_n offer_v as_o in_o procession_n etc._n etc._n 3._o to_o worship_v the_o cross_n as_o it_o represent_v christ_n with_o that_o worship_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o his_o person_n that_o which_o concern_v we_o now_o be_v to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o person_n how_o far_o they_o suppose_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o idolatry_n commit_v in_o it_o as_o to_o k._n james_n we_o have_v see_v already_o how_o far_a t._n g._n be_v from_o answer_v his_o testimony_n the_o next_o be_v isabella_n casaubon_n and_o he_o say_v the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v affirm_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v join_v with_o great_a impiety_n so_o that_o he_o speak_v the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n and_o not_o bare_o his_o own_o and_o sure_o when_o he_o write_v by_o k._n james_n his_o direction_n and_o order_n and_o have_v so_o great_a intimacy_n with_o bishop_n andrews_n and_o other_o learned_a man_n of_o our_o church_n he_o will_v declare_v nothing_o to_o be_v her_o sense_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o and_o as_o to_o his_o own_o private_a opinion_n i_o can_v tell_v t._n g._n somewhat_o more_o viz._n that_o when_o he_o be_v violent_o set_v upon_o by_o all_o the_o wit_n and_o industry_n of_o card._n perron_n and_o disoblige_v by_o some_o person_n of_o his_o own_o communion_n at_o paris_n he_o set_v himself_o serious_o to_o consider_v the_o term_n of_o communion_n in_o that_o church_n and_o whether_o he_o may_v with_o a_o safe_a conscience_n embrace_v it_o and_o i_o have_v see_v in_o his_o own_o hand-writing_n the_o reason_n which_o hinder_v he_o from_o it_o and_o the_o first_o of_o they_o be_v the_o fear_n of_o idolatry_n which_o he_o see_v practise_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o saint_n which_o be_v as_o full_a a_o proof_n as_o may_v be_v that_o he_o do_v not_o think_v any_o person_n can_v embrace_v the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n without_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n as_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o saint_n the_o three_o be_v bishop_n andrews_n who_o not_o only_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n but_o he_o say_v that_o in_o their_o breviaries_n hour_n and_o rosary_n they_o pray_v direct_o absolute_o and_o final_o to_o saint_n and_o not_o mere_o to_o the_o saint_n to_o pray_v to_o god_n for_o they_o but_o give_v what_o they_o pray_v for_o themselves_o to_o this_o t._n g._n say_v they_o profess_v they_o do_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o though_o we_o be_v inquire_v what_o they_o profess_v and_o not_o what_o bishop_n andrews_n charge_v they_o with_o if_o idolatry_n according_a to_o bishop_n andrews_n be_v require_v in_o the_o authorize_v office_n of_o devotion_n in_o their_o church_n how_o can_v the_o member_n of_o it_o be_v excuse_v either_o from_o hyocrisie_n or_o idolatry_n the_o four_o be_v dr._n field_n who_o charge_v the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n with_o such_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n as_o can_v be_v excuse_v the_o five_o dr._n jackson_n who_o say_v the_o papist_n give_v divine_a honour_n to_o image_n the_o six_o archbishop_n laud_n who_o
not_o only_o affirm_v the_o modern_a church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v too_o like_a to_o paganism_n in_o the_o adoration_n of_o image_n but_o condemn_v the_o pray_n to_o angel_n as_o the_o idolatry_n condemn_v by_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n as_o dr._n st._n show_v from_o his_o m_n s._n note_n upon_o bellarmine_n to_o these_o dr._n st._n add_v in_o his_o general_n preface_n the_o testimony_n of_o archbishop_n bancroft_n bishop_n montague_n pet._n heylin_n and_o mr._n thorndike_n which_o three_o last_n be_v the_o very_a person_n t._n g._n do_v appeal_n to_o and_o the_o last_o of_o they_o do_v declare_v that_o the_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n be_v such_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o no_o good_a christian_n dare_v trust_v his_o soul_n in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o which_o be_v all_o one_o as_o to_o say_v they_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v they_o only_o reprove_v some_o practice_n as_o idolatrous_a or_o at_o least_o in_o danger_n to_o be_v such_o but_o dr._n st._n acknowledge_v that_o they_o excuse_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o idolatry_n although_o not_o all_o who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o p._n d._n do_v he_o indeed_o say_v so_o or_o be_v this_o another_o piece_n of_o t._n g.'s_n fineness_n his_o word_n be_v these_o and_o although_o it_o may_v be_v only_o a_o excess_n of_o charity_n in_o some_o few_o learned_a person_n to_o excuse_v that_o church_n from_o idolatry_n although_o not_o all_o who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o and_o then_o produce_v the_o seventeen_o testimony_n to_o show_v he_o do_v not_o differ_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o the_o eminent_a defender_n of_o it_o ever_o since_o the_o reformation_n and_o do_v you_o think_v that_o among_o his_o testimony_n he_o will_v produce_v any_o who_o he_o think_v to_o free_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o idolatry_n no_o certain_o but_o i_o suppose_v that_o clause_n refer_v to_o mr._n thorndike_n and_o some_o few_o other_o and_o as_o to_o mr._n thorndike_n he_o afterward_o produce_v the_o passage_n before_o mention_v out_o of_o some_o paper_n write_v by_o he_o a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n what_o say_v t._n g._n to_o that_o r._n p._n not_o a_o word_n more_o but_o i_o find_v he_o make_v use_v of_o mr._n thorndikes_n name_n on_o all_o occasion_n as_o if_o he_o favour_v our_o side_n against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o dr._n st._n and_o the_o man_n who_o manage_v the_o dialogue_n against_o he_o be_v bring_v in_o as_o one_o of_o mr._n thorndikes_n principle_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o be_v not_o he_o a_o man_n in_o his_o heart_n of_o our_o church_n and_o only_o live_v in_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o you_o p._n d._n d._n st._n have_v give_v a_o just_a character_n of_o he_o when_o he_o call_v he_o a_o man_n of_o excellent_a learning_n and_o great_a piety_n and_o since_o so_o ill_a use_n be_v make_v of_o his_o name_n in_o these_o dispute_n and_o such_o dishonour_n do_v to_o his_o memory_n i_o shall_v but_o do_v he_o right_o to_o let_v you_o understand_v what_o his_o judgement_n be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o he_o deliver_v in_o a_o paper_n to_o a_o lady_n a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n from_o who_o it_o come_v immediate_o to_o my_o hand_n and_o be_v the_o same_o paper_n dr._n st._n do_v refer_v to_o 1._o the_o truth_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n and_o of_o the_o scripture_n be_v presuppose_v to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o it_o 2._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n maintain_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o present_a church_n to_o be_v infallible_a which_o be_v false_a and_o yet_o concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v it_o therefore_o no_o man_n can_v submit_v to_o the_o authority_n of_o it_o 3._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o s._n jeroms_n time_n do_v not_o make_v void_a the_o baptism_n of_o those_o sect_n which_o do_v not_o baptise_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n but_o that_o baptism_n be_v void_a and_o true_a baptism_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o matter_n of_o salvation_n 4._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o schism_n follow_v the_o wrong_a cause_n if_o you_o except_v only_a thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o be_v believe_v this_o show_v that_o infallibility_n only_o in_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v not_o enough_o it_o be_v destructive_a to_o salvation_n to_o follow_v the_o wrong_a cause_n in_o schism_n instance_n the_o schism_n with_o the_o greek_a church_n for_o appeal_n to_o rome_n for_o there_o be_v evident_a tradition_n to_o the_o contrary_n 5._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v apocryphal_a scripture_n to_o be_v esteem_v canonical_a scripture_n but_o this_o injunction_n be_v contrary_a to_o tradition_n and_o truth_n and_o concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o receive_v it_o 6._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o s._n jeroms_n time_n do_v not_o receive_v the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n for_o canonical_a scripture_n as_o now_o it_o do_v and_o as_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o declare_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n 7._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v err_v in_o teach_v that_o attrition_n be_v turn_v into_o contrition_n by_o submit_v to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n but_o this_o error_n be_v destructive_a to_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v it_o therefore_o it_o may_v err_v in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n that_o it_o be_v a_o error_n because_o of_o the_o condition_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n which_o be_v before_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v depend_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n 8._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n and_o to_o profess_v that_o which_o be_v false_a for_o there_o be_v scripture_n and_o tradition_n for_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o transubstantiation_n viz._n for_o abolish_n the_o element_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v it_o therefore_o it_o enjoin_v to_o believe_v that_o for_o which_o there_o be_v neither_o tradition_n nor_o scripture_n witness_v the_o father_n that_o own_o the_o element_n after_o consecration_n 9_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v that_o christ_n institute_v a_o new_a passeover_n to_o be_v sacrifice_v as_o well_o as_o represent_v commemorate_a and_o offer_v in_o the_o eucharist_n the_o sacrific_a missae_fw-la cap._n 1._o which_o be_v false_a for_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n cross_n be_v commemorate_a represent_v and_o offer_v as_o ready_a to_o be_v slay_v in_o and_o by_o the_o eucharist_n but_o not_o slay_v and_o therefore_o not_o sacrifice_v in_o it_o and_o by_o celebrate_v it_o and_o therefore_o when_o it_o be_v say_v there_o c._n 11._o quod_fw-la in_o missa_fw-la christus_fw-la incruentè_fw-fr immolatur_fw-la if_o it_o be_v mean_v proper_o it_o be_v a_o contradiction_n for_o that_o which_o have_v blood_n be_v not_o sacrifice_v but_o by_o shed_v the_o blood_n of_o it_o if_o figurative_o it_o signify_v no_o more_o than_o that_o which_o i_o have_v say_v that_o it_o be_v represent_v commemorate_a and_o offer_v as_o slay_v and_o therefore_o all_o part_n agree_v to_o this_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v more_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o schism_n that_o come_v by_o refuse_v it_o for_o the_o propitiation_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v the_o propitiation_n of_o christ_n cross_n purchase_v for_o they_o that_o be_v qualify_v 10._o the_o council_n of_o trent_n commend_v the_o mass_n without_o the_o communion_n cap._n 6._o wherein_o it_o err_v for_o the_o communion_n be_v the_o restore_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o baptism_n after_o sin_n the_o want_n of_o it_o without_o the_o desire_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v lament_v not_o commend_v as_o destructive_a of_o the_o mean_n of_o salvation_n 11._o there_o be_v neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o pray_v to_o saint_n depart_v or_o any_o evidence_n that_o they_o hear_v our_o prayer_n therefore_o it_o evidence_n a_o carnal_a hope_n that_o god_n will_v abate_v of_o the_o covenant_n of_o our_o baptism_n which_o be_v the_o condition_n of_o our_o salvation_n for_o their_o sake_n 12._o to_o pray_v to_o they_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o only_a god_n can_v give_v as_o all_o papist_n do_v be_v by_o the_o proper_a sense_n of_o their_o word_n downright_a idolatry_n if_o they_o say_v their_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o figure_n only_o to_o desire_v they_o to_o procure_v their_o request_n of_o god_n how_o dare_v any_o
suspect_v for_o a_o puritan_n at_o that_o time_n when_o many_o of_o the_o great_a antipuritan_n be_v zealous_a defender_n of_o those_o opinion_n in_o all_o q._n elizabeth_n time_n and_o after_o the_o name_n of_o puritan_n signify_v the_o opposer_n of_o our_o government_n and_o the_o service_n and_o order_n of_o our_o church_n and_o some_o have_v undertake_v to_o name_v the_o person_n who_o first_o apply_v this_o name_n to_o the_o asserter_n of_o these_o doctrinal_a point_n towards_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o k._n james_n this_o be_v certain_a which_o be_v most_o material_a to_o our_o purpose_n that_o when_o k._n charles_n i._o publish_v his_o declaration_n to_o prevent_v unnecessary_a disputation_n about_o these_o point_n he_o say_v that_o they_o do_v all_o agree_n in_o the_o true_a usual_a literal_a meaning_n of_o the_o say_a article_n of_o our_o church_n 189._o and_o that_o even_o in_o those_o curious_a point_n in_o which_o the_o present_a difference_n lie_v man_n of_o all_o sort_n take_v the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o be_v for_o they_o which_o be_v a_o argument_n again_o none_o of_o they_o intend_v any_o desertion_n of_o the_o article_n establish_v and_o which_o be_v a_o certain_a argument_n that_o even_o at_o that_o time_n no_o man_n be_v charge_v with_o disaffection_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n mere_o on_o the_o account_n of_o these_o doctrinal_a point_n r._n p._n but_o what_o be_v it_o which_o archbishop_n whitgift_n say_v for_o t._n g._n say_v even_o that_o will_v involve_v he_o more_o in_o the_o suspicion_n of_o puritanism_n p._n d._n his_o word_n be_v these_o i_o do_v as_o much_o mislike_v the_o distinction_n of_o the_o papist_n and_o the_o intent_n of_o it_o as_o any_o man_n do_v neither_o do_v i_o go_v about_o to_o excuse_v they_o from_o wicked_a and_o without_o repentance_n and_o god_n singular_a mercy_n damnable_a idolatry_n this_o be_v enough_o to_o dr._n st.'s_n purpose_n and_o afterward_o he_o say_v he_o place_v the_o papist_n among_o wicked_a and_o damnable_a idolater_n be_v not_o this_o home_n do_v you_o think_v r._n p._n but_o do_v not_o he_o say_v that_o one_o kind_n of_o idolatry_n be_v when_o the_o true_a god_n be_v worship_v by_o other_o mean_n and_o way_n than_o he_o have_v prescribe_v or_o will_v be_v worship_v and_o according_a to_o dr._n st._n this_o be_v the_o fundamental_a principle_n of_o those_o who_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n etc._n that_o nothing_o be_v lawful_a in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n but_o what_o he_o have_v express_o command_v therefore_o according_a to_o dr._n st._n himself_o archbishop_n whitgift_n be_v a_o puritan_n p._n d._n it_o be_v notable_o argue_v i_o confess_v and_o thence_o it_o follow_v if_o archbishop_n whitgift_n have_v understand_v the_o force_n of_o his_o own_o principle_n he_o must_v have_v separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o be_v it_o not_o plain_a to_o the_o common_a sense_n of_o any_o man_n that_o archbishop_n whitgift_n write_v on_o behalf_n of_o our_o ceremony_n and_o against_o this_o very_a principle_n in_o t._n g._n his_o word_n can_v not_o bear_v that_o meaning_n and_o therefore_o dr._n st._n have_v great_a reason_n to_o say_v that_o his_o meaning_n in_o those_o word_n be_v against_o his_o express_a command_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o application_n of_o they_o so_o that_o either_o you_o must_v make_v archbishop_n whitgift_n so_o weak_a a_o man_n as_o to_o overthrow_v the_o design_n of_o his_o whole_a book_n or_o this_o must_v be_v his_o meaning_n which_o dr._n st._n assign_v r._n p._n but_o dr._n st._n himself_o make_v the_o charge_v papist_n to_o be_v idolater_n â—7_n a_o distinctive_a sign_n of_o puritanism_n p._n d._n be_v you_o in_o earnest_n i_o pray_v when_o and_o where_o for_o than_o i_o be_o sure_a he_o contradict_v himself_o for_o his_o design_n be_v to_o prove_v just_a the_o contrary_n name_v i_o the_o page_n i_o beseech_v you_o that_o i_o may_v judge_v of_o it_o r._n p._n why_o do_v he_o not_o say_v that_o it_o be_v the_o fundamental_a principle_n of_o puritanism_n that_o nothing_o be_v lawful_a in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n but_o what_o he_o have_v express_o command_v p._n d._n and_o what_o then_o r._n p._n then_o hold_v a_o little_a then_o it_o will_v not_o do_v p._n d._n i_o think_v not_o true_o if_o this_o be_v the_o fundamental_a principle_n of_o puritan_n that_o nothing_o be_v lawful_a in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n but_o what_o be_v command_v then_o to_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n be_v a_o distinctive_a sign_n of_o puritanism_n how_o many_o cord_n be_v necessary_a to_o tie_v these_o two_o together_o 1._o can_v no_o one_o charge_v the_o papist_n with_o idolatry_n but_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o principle_n i_o do_v hold_v whatever_o god_n have_v not_o forbid_v to_o be_v lawful_a in_o his_o worship_n but_o may_v not_o i_o at_o the_o same_o time_n hold_v some_o kind_n of_o prohibit_v worship_n to_o be_v idolatry_n i_o can_v hardly_o imagine_v a_o man_n of_o t._n g.'s_n subtlety_n can_v write_v thus_o but_o that_o you_o have_v the_o book_n by_o you_o and_o tell_v i_o so_o i_o can_v not_o have_v believe_v it_o 2._o those_o who_o do_v hold_v this_o principle_n do_v not_o present_o make_v every_o thing_n unlawful_a to_o be_v a_o idol_n by_o virtue_n of_o it_o for_o they_o do_v not_o deduce_v this_o unlawfulness_n from_o the_o prohibition_n of_o idolatry_n but_o from_o the_o perfection_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o a_o rule_n of_o worship_n and_o they_o say_v we_o must_v not_o add_v thereto_o and_o therefore_o no_o humane_a invention_n must_v be_v use_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n now_o judge_v you_o whether_o according_a to_o this_o principle_n there_o can_v be_v nothing_o unlawful_a but_o it_o must_v be_v a_o idol_n r._n p._n this_o be_v a_o oversight_n i_o suppose_v in_o he_o let_v it_o pass_v but_o what_o make_v d._n st._n vary_v so_o much_o from_o his_o old_a principle_n in_o his_o irenicum_fw-la wherein_o he_o assert_v that_o nothing_o be_v lawful_a in_o the_o immediate_a worship_n of_o god_n 49._o but_o what_o be_v command_v this_o must_v come_v either_o from_o a_o great_a light_n of_o the_o spirit_n or_o from_o the_o weighty_a consideration_n mention_v by_o the_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la when_o he_o say_v 76._o quicquid_fw-la cl._n stilling-fleet_n delinitus_fw-la &_o occaecatus_fw-la opimitate_fw-la &_o obesitate_fw-la suorum_fw-la sacerdotiorum_fw-la etc._n etc._n p._n d._n for_o the_o malicious_a suggestion_n of_o so_o wretched_a a_o calumniator_n as_o the_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la appear_v to_o be_v throughout_o that_o book_n they_o be_v not_o worth_a take_v notice_n of_o by_o any_o one_o that_o do_v not_o search_v for_o dunghill_n it_o be_v dr._n st.'s_n honour_n to_o be_v reproach_v by_o a_o man_n who_o have_v make_v it_o his_o business_n to_o reproach_v the_o best_a church_n in_o christendom_n and_o to_o undermine_v all_o church_n above_o thirty_o year_n and_o yet_o the_o ungrateful_a creature_n have_v in_o some_o measure_n live_v upon_o the_o revenue_n of_o that_o church_n himself_o which_o he_o have_v so_o shameful_o revile_v be_v in_o great_a part_n support_v by_o the_o bounty_n of_o a_o very_a worthy_a and_o learned_a churchman_n who_o be_v near_o relate_v to_o he_o but_o as_o to_o the_o contradiction_n charge_v on_o dr._n st._n i_o begin_v to_o suspect_v t._n g._n more_o than_o ever_o i_o do_v for_o do_v not_o dr._n st._n in_o that_o place_n distinguish_v between_o immediate_a act_n and_o part_n of_o worship_n and_o circumstance_n belong_v to_o those_o act_n even_o in_o the_o very_a word_n allege_v by_o t._n g._n and_o do_v not_o he_o say_v express_o that_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o these_o 33._o but_o of_o the_o former_a and_o be_v not_o the_o very_a same_o distinction_n use_v by_o bishop_n andrews_n bishop_n sanderson_n and_o the_o most_o zealous_a defender_n of_o the_o rite_n of_o our_o church_n why_o then_o must_v he_o be_v suppose_v to_o have_v change_v his_o mind_n as_o to_o this_o principle_n when_o he_o say_v no_o more_o at_o that_o time_n than_o what_o the_o most_o genuine_a son_n of_o our_o church_n have_v assert_v among_o who_o i_o do_v not_o question_v bishop_n andrews_n and_o bishop_n sanderson_n will_v be_v allow_v to_o pass_v and_o they_o distinguish_v after_o the_o same_o manner_n between_o the_o necessary_a part_n of_o worship_n for_o which_o they_o suppose_v a_o command_n necessary_a as_o well_o as_o dr._n st._n and_o the_o accidental_a and_o mutable_a circumstance_n attend_v the_o same_o for_o order_n comeliness_n and_o edification_n sake_n which_o be_v lawful_a if_o not_o contrary_a to_o god_n command_n and_o do_v not_o dr._n st._n say_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n viz._n that_o in_o matter_n of_o mere_a decency_n and_o
order_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o make_v thing_n lawful_a if_o they_o be_v not_o forbid_v let_v we_o now_o compare_v this_o say_n with_o what_o he_o call_v the_o fundamental_a principle_n of_o separation_n that_o nothing_o be_v lawful_a in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n but_o what_o he_o have_v express_o command_v and_o can_v any_o thing_n be_v more_o contradictory_n to_o this_o than_o what_o dr._n st._n lay_v down_o as_o a_o principle_n in_o that_o very_a page_n of_o his_o irenicum_fw-la that_o a_o express_v positive_a command_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o thing_n lawful_a but_o a_o non-prohibition_n by_o a_o law_n be_v sufficient_a for_o that_o where_o then_o lie_v t._n g.'s_n understanding_n or_o ingenuity_n when_o he_o mention_n such_o a_o great_a change_n in_o the_o dr._n as_o to_o this_o principle_n when_o he_o own_v the_o very_a same_o principle_n even_o in_o that_o book_n and_o that_o very_a page_n he_o quote_v to_o the_o contrary_a t._n g._n do_v presume_v good_a catholic_n reader_n will_v take_v his_o word_n without_o look_v far_o and_o i_o scarce_o ever_o know_v a_o writer_n who_o stand_v more_o in_o need_n of_o the_o good_a opinion_n of_o his_o reader_n in_o this_o kind_n than_o t._n g._n do_v as_o i_o shall_v make_v it_o full_o appear_v if_o you_o hold_v on_o this_o discourse_n with_o i_o for_o i_o have_v take_v some_o pain_n to_o consider_v t._n g.'s_n manner_n of_o deal_n with_o his_o adversary_n but_o this_o be_v too_o gross_a a_o way_n of_o impose_v upon_o the_o credulity_n of_o reader_n yet_o this_o be_v their_o common_a method_n of_o deal_n with_o dr._n st._n when_o they_o intend_v to_o write_v against_o he_o then_o have_v you_o dr._n st._n be_v irenicum_fw-la hope_v to_o find_v matter_n there_o to_o expose_v he_o to_o the_o hatred_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o to_o represent_v he_o as_o unfit_a to_o defend_v the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o this_o take_v not_o than_o they_o pick_v sentence_n and_o 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thing_n be_v carry_v with_o great_a temper_n the_o church_n settle_v with_o a_o succession_n of_o bishop_n the_o liturgy_n reform_v according_a to_o the_o ancient_a model_n some_o decent_a ceremony_n retain_v without_o the_o solly_n and_o superstition_n which_o be_v before_o practise_v and_o to_o prevent_v the_o extravagancy_n of_o the_o people_n in_o the_o interpret_n of_o scripture_n the_o most_o excellent_a paraphrase_n of_o erasmus_n be_v translate_v into_o english_a and_o set_v up_o in_o church_n and_o to_o this_o day_n erasmus_n be_v in_o far_o great_a esteem_n among_o the_o divine_n of_o our_o church_n than_o either_o luther_n or_o calvin_n r._n p._n if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v methinks_v your_o divine_n shall_v have_v a_o care_n of_o broach_v such_o thing_n which_o do_v subvert_v the_o foundation_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n among_o you_o as_o t
be_v not_o a_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v a_o part_n of_o that_o jurisdiction_n which_o t._n g._n do_v distinguish_v from_o the_o bare_a power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n yes_o without_o doubt_n p._n d._n be_v not_o this_o power_n give_v by_o the_o very_a form_n of_o order_n in_o your_o church_n r._n p._n yes_o but_o what_o then_o p._n d._n do_v not_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v the_o character_n be_v imprint_v upon_o say_v those_o word_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la etc._n etc._n r._n p._n what_o will_v you_o be_v at_o p._n d._n be_v the_o character_n of_o order_n give_v by_o word_n that_o signify_v nothing_o and_o carry_v no_o effect_n along_o with_o they_o r._n p._n no_o certain_o p._n d._n then_o these_o word_n have_v their_o effect_n upon_o every_o man_n that_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n and_o what_o then_o p._n d._n then_o every_o one_o who_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n have_v the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v r._n p._n be_v it_o so_o p._n d._n but_o the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v be_v a_o part_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o a_o power_n of_o order_n carry_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n along_o with_o it_o and_o consequent_o valid_a ordination_n must_v suppose_v lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o absolution_n r._n p._n in_o the_o name_n of_o t._n g._n i_o deny_v that_o p._n d._n hold_v a_o little_a you_o be_v deny_v the_o conclusion_n consider_v again_o what_o you_o deny_v do_v you_o deny_v this_o power_n to_o be_v give_v in_o your_o order_n r._n p._n no._n p._n d._n do_v you_o deny_v this_o power_n to_o be_v part_n of_o jurisdiction_n r._n p._n no._n p._n d._n then_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v give_v wherever_o the_o order_n be_v valid_a r._n p._n this_o can_v be_v for_o t._n g._n complain_v over_o and_o over_o of_o dr._n st.'s_n ignorance_n wilful_a and_o intolerable_a mistake_n unbecoming_a a_o writer_n of_o controversy_n for_o not_o distinguish_v between_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n and_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n which_o he_o will_v never_o have_v do_v if_o one_o have_v carry_v the_o other_o along_o with_o it_o p._n d._n do_v not_o tell_v i_o what_o t.g._n will_v or_o will_v not_o have_v do_v i_o tell_v you_o what_o he_o have_v do_v and_o judge_v you_o now_o with_o what_o advantage_n to_o himself_o r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n be_v again_o up_o with_o his_o undeniable_a maxim_n that_o none_o can_v give_v to_o another_o what_o he_o have_v not_o himself_o 143._o and_o this_o he_o think_v will_v carry_v he_o through_o all_o p._n d._n i_o tell_v you_o that_o very_a maxim_n overthrow_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n as_o he_o apply_v it_o for_o if_o the_o validity_n of_o order_n do_v suppose_v authority_n to_o be_v convey_v and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o such_o authority_n give_v in_o the_o case_n of_o idolatry_n then_o the_o power_n of_o order_n be_v take_v away_o as_o well_o as_o jurisdiction_n beside_o be_v not_o the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n a_o part_n of_o that_o lawful_a authority_n which_o belong_v to_o bishop_n r._n p._n i_o do_v not_o understand_v you_o p._n d._n can_v any_o man_n give_v order_n without_o a_o power_n to_o do_v it_o r._n p._n no._n p._n d._n be_v not_o that_o power_n a_o part_n of_o episcopal_a authority_n r._n p._n yes_o p._n d._n how_o then_o can_v there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o give_v order_n without_o authority_n r._n p._n now_o you_o show_v your_o ignorance_n do_v not_o you_o know_v that_o there_o be_v a_o indelible_a character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o power_n of_o order_n which_o no_o act_n of_o the_o church_n can_v hinder_v a_o bishop_n from_o give_v in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n or_o a_o priest_n from_o receive_v but_o jurisdiction_n be_v quite_o another_o thing_n that_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o church_n or_o rather_o from_o the_o pope_n who_o be_v the_o fountain_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o this_o may_v be_v suspend_v or_o take_v away_o p._n d._n i_o cry_v you_o mercy_n sir_n i_o be_v not_o breed_v up_o in_o your_o school_n this_o may_v be_v currant_n doctrine_n with_o you_o but_o i_o assure_v you_o i_o find_v no_o footstep_n of_o it_o either_o in_o scripture_n or_o father_n and_o if_o i_o be_v not_o much_o misinform_v some_o of_o your_o great_a divine_n be_v of_o my_o mind_n i_o see_v all_o this_o outcry_n of_o t._n g.'s_n concern_v dr._n st._n be_v ignorance_n come_v at_o last_o to_o this_o mystery_n of_o the_o indelible_a character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n which_o make_v ordination_n to_o be_v valid_a but_o give_v no_o authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n i_o pray_v make_v i_o a_o little_a better_o acquaint_v with_o this_o character_n for_o at_o present_a i_o can_v neither_o read_v nor_o understand_v it_o r._n p._n yes_o yes_o this_o you_o will_v be_v always_o at_o to_o make_v we_o explain_v our_o school-notion_n for_o you_o to_o fleer_v and_o to_o mock_v at_o they_o p.d._n but_o this_o i_o perceive_v be_v very_o material_a to_o prevent_v intolerable_a error_n and_o mistake_n and_o for_o all_o that_o you_o know_v i_o may_v come_v to_o be_v a_o writer_n of_o controversy_n and_o then_o i_o will_v not_o be_v hoot_v at_o for_o my_o ignorance_n nor_o have_v the_o boy_n point_v at_o i_o in_o the_o street_n and_o say_v there_o go_v a_o man_n that_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o character_n which_o in_o my_o mind_n will_v sound_v as_o ill_o as_o say_v there_o go_v one_o that_o can_v read_v his_o a._n b._n c._n i_o beseech_v you_o sir_n tell_v i_o what_o this_o indelible_a character_n be_v for_o to_o tell_v you_o truth_n i_o have_v hear_v of_o it_o before_o but_o never_o meet_v with_o one_o who_o can_v tell_v what_o it_o be_v r._n p._n yes_o that_o be_v it_o you_o will_v not_o believe_v a_o thing_n unless_o one_o can_v tell_v you_o what_o it_o be_v why_o it_o be_v a_o mark_n or_o a_o seal_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n that_o can_v never_o be_v blot_v out_o and_o therefore_o ordination_n be_v valid_a because_o if_o re-ordination_a be_v allow_v one_o character_n will_v be_v put_v upon_o another_o and_o so_o the_o first_o will_v be_v blot_v out_o do_v not_o you_o understand_v it_o now_o p._n d._n i_o suppose_v altogether_o as_o well_o as_o you_o be_v it_o a_o physical_a kind_n of_o thing_n just_a like_o the_o stroke_n of_o a_o pen_n upon_o paper_n or_o rather_o as_o the_o grave_v of_o a_o carver_n upon_o stone_n so_o artificial_o do_v that_o it_o can_v never_o be_v take_v out_o while_o it_o continue_v whole_a or_o be_v it_o only_o a_o moral_a relative_a thing_n depend_v upon_o divine_a institution_n and_o only_o on_o the_o account_n of_o distinction_n call_v a_o character_n r._n p._n without_o doubt_v it_o be_v a_o absolute_a thing_n but_o whether_o to_o call_v it_o a_o habit_n or_o a_o power_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o quality_n of_o the_o first_o or_o the_o second_o or_o the_o three_o or_o four_o kind_n that_o our_o divine_n be_v not_o agree_v upon_o and_o some_o think_v it_o be_v a_o new_a kind_n of_o quality_n nor_o whether_o it_o be_v imprint_v on_o the_o essence_n or_o power_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o if_o in_o the_o faculty_n whether_o in_o the_o understanding_n or_o will_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o to_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v real_o such_o a_o absolute_a indelible_a character_n imprint_v on_o the_o soul_n from_o whence_o that_o sacrament_n can_v never_o be_v reiterated_a which_o do_v imprint_v a_o character_n as_o that_o of_o order_n do_v p._n d._n i_o be_o just_a as_o wise_a by_o all_o this_o account_n as_o i_o be_v before_o for_o the_o only_a reason_n of_o the_o point_n be_v it_o must_v needs_o be_v so_o r._n p._n yes_o the_o church_n have_v declare_v it_o in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o that_o be_v instead_o of_o all_o reason_n to_o we_o p._n d._n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o dr._n st._n must_v he_o be_v upbraid_v with_o ignorance_n error_n and_o tergiversation_n because_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o indelible_a character_n on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n r._n p._n no_o that_o be_v not_o the_o thing_n but_o because_o he_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n p._n d._n be_v you_o sure_a of_o that_o if_o i_o do_v not_o forget_v he_o have_v this_o very_a distinction_n in_o that_o pestilent_a book_n call_v irenicum_fw-la which_o t._n g._n hit_v he_o in_o the_o tooth_n with_o on_o all_o occasion_n r._n p._n but_o he_o do_v not_o or_o will_v not_o understand_v it_o
here_o p._n d._n yes_o he_o know_v it_o well_o enough_o but_o he_o think_v if_o he_o prove_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n he_o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n because_o the_o give_a order_n be_v part_n of_o church_n authority_n and_o authority_n be_v receive_v in_o take_v order_n and_o the_o church_n never_o allow_v one_o but_o it_o allow_v the_o other_o also_o if_o you_o have_v any_o thing_n more_o to_o say_v about_o this_o matter_n i_o be_o willing_a to_o hear_v you_o but_o as_o yet_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o t._n g.'s_n clamour_n about_o such_o a_o mistake_n in_o dr._n st._n for_o i_o think_v the_o mistake_n lie_v near_a home_n r._n p._n but_o e._n w._n public_o reprove_v dr._n st._n for_o this_o mistake_n and_o yet_o after_o that_o he_o go_v on_o to_o confirm_v his_o former_a answer_n with_o new_a proof_n and_o testimony_n etc._n that_o bishop_n ordain_v by_o idolater_n be_v esteem_v valid_o ordain_v and_o do_v not_o speak_v one_o word_n in_o answer_n to_o what_o be_v object_v by_o t._n g._n viz._n that_o the_o english_a bishop_n must_v want_v lawful_a authority_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n if_o their_o first_o ordainer_n be_v idolater_n and_o e._n w._n call_v it_o a_o intolerable_a mistake_n and_o t._n g._n say_v he_o have_v hear_v he_o be_v a_o main_a man_n esteem_v for_o his_o learning_n after_o repeat_v the_o word_n of_o e._n w._n at_o length_n t._n g._n very_o mild_o add_v 155._o as_o if_o he_o be_v whole_o insensible_a of_o the_o gross_a and_o intolerable_a error_n e._n w._n tax_v he_o with_o he_o run_v again_o into_o the_o same_o shameful_a mistake_n but_o say_v t._n g._n be_v the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n and_o lawful_a authority_n to_o give_v they_o 157._o so_o essential_o link_v to_o each_o other_o that_o they_o can_v be_v separate_v may_v not_o a_o bishop_n or_o priest_n remain_v so_o be_v deprive_v of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n to_o exercise_v their_o function_n for_o have_v fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o idolatry_n and_o if_o they_o have_v none_o themselves_o can_v they_o give_v it_o to_o other_o p._n d._n on_o who_o side_n the_o intolerable_a mistake_n lie_v will_v be_v best_a see_v by_o examine_v the_o force_n of_o what_o t._n g._n say_v as_o to_o e._n w._n the_o matter_n be_v not_o great_a which_o lie_v i_o suppose_v in_o this_o that_o those_o who_o do_v fall_v into_o idolatry_n or_o heresy_n may_v ordain_v valid_o for_o say_v he_o from_o estiâ—s_n no_o crime_n or_o censure_v soever_o can_v hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n by_o a_o bishop_n but_o he_o may_v be_v deprive_v of_o any_o lawful_a authority_n to_o do_v it_o and_o therefore_o can_v convey_v this_o lawful_a authority_n to_o other_o ordain_v by_o he_o from_o hence_o t._n g._n say_v no_o crime_n can_v hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n but_o idolatry_n he_o say_v do_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la deprive_v bishop_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o exercise_v order_n or_o convey_v jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n may_v be_v valid_a yet_o their_o jurisdiction_n can_v be_v lawful_a and_o so_o the_o foundation_n of_o their_o authority_n be_v subvert_v by_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v allow_v this_o to_o be_v the_o force_n of_o all_o that_o t._n g._n say_v r._n p._n yes_o now_o you_o have_v hit_v upon_o his_o right_a meaning_n p._n d._n let_v we_o then_o consider_v more_o close_o on_o which_o side_n the_o mistake_n lie_v which_o will_v be_v discern_v by_o this_o whether_o we_o be_v to_o follow_v the_o modern_a school_n or_o the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n in_o this_o matter_n for_o dr._n st._n speak_v according_a to_o the_o sense_n and_o practice_n of_o antiquity_n and_o t._n g._n according_a to_o the_o modern_a notion_n and_o distinction_n of_o their_o school_n it_o be_v true_a their_o schoolman_n have_v so_o distinguish_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n that_o they_o make_v the_o one_o to_o depend_v upon_o a_o indelible_a unintelligible_a character_n which_o no_o crime_n can_v hinder_v have_v its_o valid_a effect_n but_o that_o jurisdiction_n or_o the_o right_n of_o excommunication_n and_o absolution_n may_v be_v suspend_v or_o take_v away_o since_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n and_o trent_n this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o indelible_a character_n give_v in_o order_n be_v not_o to_o be_v dispute_v among_o they_o and_o therefore_o they_o hold_v the_o character_n to_o remain_v wherever_o order_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o due_a form_n but_o then_o they_o say_v this_o character_n be_v capable_a of_o such_o restraint_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n that_o it_o remain_v like_o aristotle_n first_o matter_n a_o dull_a and_o unactive_a thing_n till_o the_o church_n give_v a_o new_a form_n to_o it_o and_o this_o they_o call_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n but_o that_o all_o this_o be_v new_a doctrine_n in_o the_o church_n and_o a_o late_a monkish_a invention_n will_v appear_v by_o these_o consideration_n 1._o how_o long_o it_o be_v before_o this_o doctrine_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o church_n by_o the_o confession_n of_o their_o own_o schoolman_n scotus_n and_o biel_n and_o cajetan_a 1._o no_o inconsiderable_a man_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v confess_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n can_v neither_o be_v prove_v from_o scripture_n nor_o father_n but_o only_o from_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o not_o very_o ancient_a neither_o 4._o and_o morinus_n take_v notice_n that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v by_o p._n lombard_n or_o hugo_n de_fw-fr sancto_fw-la victore_fw-la although_o they_o debate_v those_o very_a question_n which_o will_v have_v require_v their_o express_v it_o if_o they_o have_v know_v any_o thing_n of_o it_o 2._o how_o many_o of_o their_o schoolman_n who_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o character_n of_o priesthood_n yet_o make_v the_o power_n of_o order_n to_o belong_v to_o jurisdiction_n so_o albertus_n magnus_n and_o other_o cite_v by_o morinus_n but_o alex._n alensis_n carry_v this_o point_n so_o far_o that_o he_o say_v that_o because_o of_o the_o indelible_a character_n of_o priesthood_n the_o power_n can_v never_o be_v take_v from_o a_o priest_n but_o only_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o 2._o but_o in_o a_o bishop_n there_o be_v no_o new_a character_n imprint_v and_o therefore_o in_o the_o degrade_n he_o not_o only_o the_o execution_n but_o the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n be_v take_v away_o and_o scotus_n say_v if_o a_o bishop_n be_v excommunicate_v 3_o he_o lose_v the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n if_o episcopacy_n be_v not_o a_o distinct_a order_n as_o you_o know_v many_o of_o the_o schoolman_n hold_v and_o morinus_n grant_v 13._o that_o if_o episcopacy_n be_v not_o a_o distinct_a order_n but_o a_o large_a commission_n the_o power_n of_o bishop_n may_v be_v so_o limit_v by_o the_o church_n as_o not_o only_o to_o hinder_v they_o from_o a_o lawful_a authority_n but_o from_o a_o power_n of_o act_v so_o that_o what_o they_o do_v carry_v no_o validity_n along_o with_o it_o 3._o how_o many_o before_o the_o day_n of_o the_o schoolman_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n do_v take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o order_n gratian_n hold_v it_o most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n that_o a_o bishop_n degrade_v have_v no_o power_n to_o give_v order_n 97._o although_o he_o have_v to_o baptise_v only_o for_o s._n augustine_n sake_n he_o think_v they_o may_v distinguish_v between_o the_o power_n and_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o gul._n parisiensis_fw-la say_v that_o bishop_n depose_v can_v confer_v no_o order_n 7._o because_o the_o church_n have_v the_o same_o power_n in_o take_v away_o which_o it_o have_v in_o give_v and_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o take_v away_o their_o power_n if_o what_o t._n g._n assert_n have_v be_v always_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n i_o desire_v he_o to_o resolve_v i_o these_o question_n 1._o why_o pope_n lucius_n 3_o do_v re-ordain_a those_o who_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o octavianus_n the_o antipope_n 2._o why_o vrban_n 2._o declare_v nezelon_n or_o wecilo_n a_o excommunicate_a bishop_n of_o mentz_n to_o have_v no_o power_n of_o give_v order_n and_o that_o upon_o t._n g.'s_n own_o maxim_n that_o which_o a_o man_n have_v not_o he_o can_v give_v to_o another_o because_o he_o be_v ordain_v by_o heretic_n 3._o why_o the_o synod_n of_o quintilinberg_n under_o greg._n 7._o declare_v all_o ordination_n to_o be_v null_a which_o be_v make_v by_o excommunicate_v bishop_n 4._o why_o leo_n 9_o in_o a_o synod_n void_v all_o simoniacal_a ordination_n 5._o why_o stephanus_n 6._o re-ordained_n those_o which_o be_v ordain_v by_o formosus_fw-la 6._o
proposal_n he_o make_v about_o temper_v episcopacy_n they_o be_v no_o other_o than_o what_o king_n charles_n 1._o and_o mr._n thorndike_n have_v make_v before_o he_o and_o do_v t._n g._n think_v they_o design_v to_o ruin_v the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o as_o long_o as_o he_o declare_v this_o to_o be_v the_o design_n of_o his_o book_n both_o at_o the_o beginning_n and_o conclusion_n of_o it_o suppose_v he_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o mean_v he_o take_v must_v such_o a_o man_n be_v present_o condemn_v as_o one_o that_o aim_v at_o the_o ruin_n and_o destruction_n of_o the_o church_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v he_o tender_v it_o to_o consideration_n after_o episcopacy_n be_v resettled_a by_o law_n p._n d._n that_o be_v as_o true_a as_o other_o of_o his_o suggestion_n the_o book_n be_v print_v while_o thing_n be_v unsettle_a and_o be_v intend_v to_o remove_v the_o violent_a prejudices_fw-la of_o the_o dissent_v party_n against_o episcopal_a government_n and_o i_o have_v hear_v do_v 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it_o i_o remember_v a_o poor_a englishman_n in_o amboyna_n be_v cruel_o torment_v by_o the_o dutch_a and_o find_v nothing_o he_o can_v say_v will_v persuade_v his_o tormentor_n to_o release_v he_o and_o he_o say_v any_o thing_n that_o he_o think_v will_v prevail_v with_o they_o at_o last_o he_o pray_v god_n that_o he_o may_v tell_v they_o probable_a lie_n i_o will_v advise_v t._n g._n the_o next_o time_n he_o go_v a_o mole-catching_a to_o find_v out_o probable_a plot_n otherwise_o he_o will_v lose_v all_o the_o reputation_n of_o a_o informer_n and_o discoverer_n but_o i_o can_v hardly_o tell_v whether_o his_o plot_n or_o his_o proof_n be_v the_o worse_o for_o as_o there_o appear_v no_o likelihood_n in_o the_o plot_n so_o there_o be_v no_o evidence_n in_o the_o proof_n there_o be_v nothing_o pretend_v since_o the_o irenicum_fw-la but_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n and_o that_o have_v be_v sufficient_o clear_v already_o by_o show_v that_o it_o do_v not_o subvert_v the_o authority_n 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it_o must_v suppose_v that_o mahomet_n power_n have_v preserve_v the_o mahometan_a religion_n so_o long_o free_a from_o idolatry_n although_o christ_n have_v not_o which_o must_v imply_v the_o greatness_n of_o mahomet_n power_n in_o heaven_n and_o so_o it_o border_n upon_o blasphemy_n 3._o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o our_o forefather_n have_v better_o be_v convert_v to_o judaisme_n or_o turcism_n than_o to_o christianity_n for_o they_o have_v incomparable_o great_a advantage_n towards_o their_o salvation_n than_o either_o turk_n or_o pagan_n and_o such_o circumstance_n may_v accompany_v their_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n as_o may_v make_v it_o not_o to_o hinder_v their_o salvation_n but_o i_o shall_v give_v you_o a_o full_a answer_n to_o this_o in_o the_o word_n of_o bishop_n sanderson_n who_o be_v another_o competent_a witness_n if_o any_o more_o be_v needful_a that_o dr._n st._n do_v not_o in_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n contradict_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o 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this_o day_n that_o by_o the_o same_o bless_a mean_n they_o may_v attain_v mercy_n and_o salvation_n in_o the_o end_n although_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n through_o ignorance_n they_o defile_v themselves_o with_o much_o foul_a idolatry_n and_o many_o gross_a superstition_n obj._n but_o the_o ignorance_n which_o excuse_v from_o sin_n be_v ignorantia_fw-la facti_fw-la according_a to_o that_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o they_o be_v ignorantia_fw-la juris_fw-la which_o excuse_v not_o and_o beside_o as_o they_o live_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o that_o worship_n which_o we_o call_v idolatry_n so_o they_o die_v in_o the_o same_o without_o repentance_n and_o so_o their_o case_n be_v not_o the_o same_o with_o s._n paul_n who_o see_v those_o sin_n and_o sorrow_v for_o they_o and_o forsake_v they_o but_o how_o can_v idolater_n live_v and_o die_v so_o without_o
there_o be_v in_o the_o world_n before_o julius_n caesar_n some_o civil_a society_n in_o which_o it_o be_v necessary_a for_o a_o man_n to_o live_v for_o his_o own_o preservation_n but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o roman_a empire_n for_o that_o rise_v up_o after_o he_o therefore_o it_o be_v the_o roman_a commonwealth_n but_o do_v not_o this_o imply_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o civil_a society_n in_o the_o world_n wherein_o a_o man_n can_v preserve_v himself_o but_o the_o roman_a commonwealth_n but_o i_o will_v put_v the_o case_n a_o little_o far_a home_n after_o britain_n be_v make_v a_o province_n it_o become_v a_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a empire_n and_o depend_v so_o much_o upon_o the_o strength_n and_o arm_n of_o rome_n that_o it_o be_v not_o able_a to_o defend_v itself_o it_o be_v sore_o distress_v by_o enemy_n and_o in_o danger_n of_o ruin_n send_v to_o rome_n for_o help_v there_o it_o be_v deny_v and_o the_o britain_n force_a to_o look_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o 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some_o church_n to_o be_v necessary_a and_o what_o follow_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v so_o to_o one_o baptize_v in_o it_o why_o must_v any_o such_o leave_v it_o for_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n yes_o say_v t._n g._n there_o be_v a_o distinct_a church_n before_o luther_n who_o communion_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o what_o then_o what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v with_o luther_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v reform_v by_o itself_o and_o not_o by_o luther_n why_o be_v it_o necessary_a to_o leave_v this_o church_n in_o which_o person_n be_v baptize_v and_o not_o in_o that_o before_o luther_n here_o lie_v the_o main_a hinge_n of_o the_o controversy_n to_o which_o t._n g._n aught_o to_o speak_v and_o not_o to_o run_v to_o a_o church_n before_o luther_n the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n before_o the_o reformation_n as_o well_o as_o since_o but_o it_o have_v now_o reform_v itself_o be_v a_o entire_a body_n within_o itself_o have_v bishop_n to_o govern_v it_o priest_n and_o deacon_n to_o administer_v sacrament_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o officiate_v in_o the_o public_a liturgy_n in_o which_o all_o the_o ancient_a creed_n be_v read_v and_o own_v the_o question_n now_o be_v whether_o salvation_n can_v be_v have_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o this_o church_n or_o all_o person_n be_v bind_v to_o return_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n this_o be_v the_o point_n if_o t._n g._n have_v any_o more_o to_o say_v to_o it_o r._n p._n t._n g._n urge_v far_o nothing_o can_v render_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n 74._o but_o either_o heresy_n or_o schism_n not_o heresy_n because_o she_o hold_v all_o the_o essential_a article_n of_o christian_a faith_n not_o schism_n because_o then_o dr._n st._n must_v assign_v some_o other_o distinct_a church_n then_o at_o least_o in_o be_v from_o who_o unity_n she_o depart_v p._n d._n a_o right_a douai_n argument_n one_o will_v take_v t._n g._n for_o a_o young_a missioner_n by_o it_o it_o be_v so_o exact_o cut_v in_o their_o form_n but_o it_o proceed_v upon_o such_o false_a supposition_n as_o these_o 1._o that_o communion_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o such_o i._n e._n as_o a_o body_n unite_v under_o such_o a_o head_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n which_o we_o utter_o deny_v and_o it_o can_v never_o be_v prove_v but_o by_o show_v that_o christ_n appoint_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v head_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o now_o adays_o you_o be_v willing_a to_o enter_v upon_o be_v so_o threadbare_a and_o baffle_v a_o topick_n 2._o that_o no_o doctrine_n but_o such_o as_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n can_v be_v any_o reason_n to_o hold_v off_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o a_o church_n but_o we_o think_v the_o require_v doubtful_a thing_n for_o certain_a 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of_o all_o age_n believe_v it_o to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v not_o to_o be_v the_o true_a one_o by_o a_o evidence_n equal_a to_o that_o which_o once_o prove_v it_o true_a therefore_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o be_v of_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n p._n d._n o_o the_o virtue_n of_o sodden_a colewort_n how_o often_o be_v they_o produce_v without_o shame_n to_o be_v short_a sir_n 1._o we_o deny_v that_o the_o church_n of_o which_o the_o pope_n be_v head_n be_v ever_o commend_v by_o st._n paul_n or_o in_o any_o one_o age_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v own_v by_o it_o to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n which_o be_v very_o much_o short_a of_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n of_o all_o age_n 2._o since_o the_o evidence_n be_v so_o notorious_o faulty_a about_o prove_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n a_o small_a degree_n of_o evidence_n as_o to_o its_o corruption_n may_v exceed_v it_o and_o consequent_o be_v sufficient_a to_o keep_v we_o from_o return_v to_o its_o communion_n but_o what_o do_v t._n g._n mean_v by_o repeat_v such_o stuff_n as_o this_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v dr._n st._n only_o pass_v by_o on_o account_n of_o the_o slightness_n and_o commonness_n of_o it_o they_o be_v argument_n every_o day_n bring_v and_o every_o day_n answer_v and_o if_o he_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o see_v dr._n st.'s_n mind_n about_o they_o he_o may_v have_v see_v it_o at_o large_a in_o his_o defence_n of_o archhishop_n laud_n and_o do_v you_o think_v it_o fair_a for_o he_o every_o book_n he_o write_v to_o produce_v afresh_o every_o argument_n there_o which_o have_v receive_v no_o answer_n r._n p._n i_o perceive_v you_o begin_v to_o be_v out_o
dr._n st._n make_v to_o discriminate_a civil_a and_o religious_a worship_n but_o the_o concurrence_n of_o all_o circumstance_n together_o if_o i_o bow_v to_o a_o friend_n at_o church_n be_v any_o man_n so_o senseless_a to_o take_v this_o for_o idolatry_n where_o there_o be_v a_o antecedent_n ground_n for_o civil_a worship_n and_o respect_n which_o be_v well_o know_v and_o understand_v among_o man_n there_o be_v nothing_o like_o idolatry_n although_o we_o do_v use_v the_o same_o external_a act_n towards_o man_n which_o we_o use_v towards_o god_n himself_o as_o among_o the_o israelite_n no_o man_n doubt_v that_o their_o bow_n to_o the_o king_n be_v upon_o a_o quite_o different_a account_n from_o their_o bow_n to_o god_n although_o they_o bow_v to_o the_o king_n in_o a_o place_n dedicate_v to_o divine_a worship_n and_o where_o the_o reason_n of_o worship_n be_v so_o well_o understand_v to_o be_v of_o a_o quite_o different_a nature_n from_o that_o of_o religious_a worship_n that_o very_a 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time_n of_o worship_n be_v not_o idolatry_n for_o then_o naaman_n can_v not_o be_v excuse_v p._n d._n where_o the_o worship_n be_v know_v to_o be_v give_v not_o to_o the_o idol_n but_o to_o the_o prince_n to_o who_o it_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v due_a elsewhere_o dr._n st._n never_o suppose_v such_o a_o act_n of_o worship_n though_o do_v in_o a_o idol-temple_n to_o be_v idolatry_n r._n p._n 483._o but_o suppose_v man_n shall_v ask_v a_o bishop_n blessing_n in_o a_o church_n and_o at_o prayer-time_n this_o be_v not_o civil_a worship_n and_o be_v this_o idolatry_n p._n d._n worship_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v civil_a two_o way_n 1._o when_o it_o be_v perform_v on_o a_o mere_a civil_a account_n as_o it_o be_v to_o magistrate_n and_o parent_n 2._o when_o it_o be_v perform_v on_o the_o account_n of_o a_o spiritual_a relation_n as_o in_o the_o respect_n show_v to_o bishop_n as_o spiritual_a father_n the_o worship_n be_v of_o the_o same_o kind_n with_o that_o which_o be_v show_v to_o natural_a parent_n but_o the_o relation_n be_v of_o another_o kind_n on_o which_o account_n it_o may_v be_v call_v spiritual_a respect_n but_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o a_o act_n of_o civil_a worship_n arise_v upon_o a_o moral_a relation_n which_o be_v of_o a_o different_a nature_n from_o that_o which_o be_v between_o prince_n and_o subject_n and_o parent_n and_o child_n and_o be_v found_v upon_o religious_a ground_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v religious_a or_o spiritual_a respect_n rather_o than_o worship_n r._n p._n if_o the_o first_o christian_n have_v upon_o their_o knee_n in_o time_n of_o prayer_n beg_v s._n james_n his_o benediction_n have_v this_o be_v a_o unlawful_a act_n of_o worship_n p._n d._n if_o they_o be_v upon_o their_o knee_n in_o prayer_n to_o god_n i_o think_v it_o be_v a_o very_a unseasonable_a time_n to_o ask_v their_o bishop_n blessing_n although_o the_o act_n in_o itself_o be_v lawful_a r._n p._n but_o be_v not_o this_o a_o act_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n with_o that_o of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n in_o time_n and_o place_n of_o divine_a worship_n when_o we_o only_o pray_v to_o they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o p._n d._n i_o say_v again_o that_o be_v not_o all_o you_o do_v for_o you_o own_o their_o patronage_n protection_n and_o power_n to_o help_v you_o in_o your_o necessity_n and_o your_o prayer_n must_v be_v understand_v according_a to_o your_o doctrine_n but_o suppose_v you_o do_v only_o pray_v to_o they_o to_o pray_v for_o you_o yet_o 1_o you_o do_v it_o with_o all_o the_o solemnity_n of_o divine_a worship_n in_o the_o public_a litany_n of_o the_o church_n when_o you_o be_v in_o the_o posture_n of_o your_o great_a devotion_n and_o the_o angel_n rebuke_v no_o less_o man_n than_o st._n john_n for_o use_v the_o posture_n of_o divine_a adoration_n to_o he_o 2._o in_o kneel_v to_o a_o bishop_n to_o pray_v for_o we_o we_o suppose_v nothing_o that_o encroach_v upon_o the_o divine_a excellency_n for_o we_o be_v certain_a he_o hear_v and_o understand_v we_o and_o we_o desire_v nothing_o from_o he_o but_o what_o be_v in_o his_o power_n to_o do_v and_o be_v very_o fit_v for_o we_o to_o request_v from_o he_o but_o when_o you_o pray_v to_o saint_n you_o can_v have_v no_o possible_a assurance_n that_o they_o do_v or_o can_v hear_v what_o you_o say_v to_o they_o and_o so_o it_o be_v a_o foolish_a and_o unreasonable_a worship_n and_o when_o you_o do_v it_o with_o the_o same_o external_a act_n of_o devotion_n which_o you_o use_v to_o the_o divine_a majesty_n you_o take_v away_o that_o peculiarity_n of_o divine_a worship_n which_o be_v due_a to_o god_n by_o reason_n of_o his_o incommunicable_a excellency_n and_o so_o it_o be_v superstitious_a and_o idolatrous_a worship_n these_o two_o way_n 1._o as_o it_o suppose_v as_o great_a excellency_n in_o creature_n as_o those_o do_v who_o for_o that_o reason_n be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n i_o do_v not_o meddle_v with_o the_o possibility_n of_o a_o intelligent_a be_v disunite_v from_o matter_n be_v hear_v at_o such_o a_o distance_n as_o the_o saint_n be_v suppose_v to_o be_v from_o we_o nor_o whether_o god_n may_v not_o communicate_v such_o knowledge_n to_o they_o but_o that_o which_o i_o insist_v on_o be_v this_o i_o find_v those_o charge_v with_o idolatry_n not_o only_o in_o scripture_n and_o the_o father_n but_o by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n itself_o who_o profess_v to_o worship_v some_o inferior_a spirit_n as_o mediator_n between_o god_n and_o man_n and_o such_o mediator_n as_o be_v never_o imagine_v to_o be_v mediator_n of_o redemption_n but_o bare_o of_o intercession_n as_o be_v believe_v to_o carry_v up_o the_o prayer_n of_o man_n and_o to_o bring_v down_o help_v from_o above_o now_o here_o be_v no_o omnisciency_n or_o omnipotency_n or_o other_o incommunicable_a excellency_n attribute_v to_o these_o spirit_n and_o all_o the_o address_n make_v to_o they_o be_v under_o the_o notion_n of_o mediator_n to_o intercede_v for_o they_o i._n e._n to_o pray_v to_o they_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o and_o yet_o these_o be_v charge_v with_o flat_a idolatry_n it_o be_v easy_a to_o make_v it_o appear_v from_o unquestionable_a testimony_n that_o the_o heathen_a idolater_n do_v worship_n inferior_a spirit_n only_o as_o mediator_n as_o apuleius_n express_v it_o inter_fw-la caelicolas_fw-la terricolasque_fw-la vectores_fw-la hinc_fw-la preeum_fw-la inde_fw-la donorum_fw-la wherein_o he_o only_o interpret_v plato_n sense_n and_o that_o this_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o common_a and_o universal_a kind_n of_o idolatry_n and_o therefore_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v why_o they_o must_v be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n and_o you_o escape_v either_o be_v just_a to_o they_o and_o vindicate_v the_o heathen_a worship_n or_o else_o you_o must_v condemn_v your_o own_o 467._o 2._o t._n g._n confess_v that_o by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n there_o ought_v to_o be_v some_o peculiar_a external_a act_n appropriate_v to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n as_o most_o agreeable_a to_o his_o incommunicable_a excellency_n now_o among_o all_o mankind_n no_o one_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n have_v be_v suppose_v more_o peculiar_a to_o the_o divine_a nature_n than_o solemn_a invocation_n in_o place_n and_o time_n appropriate_v to_o divine_a worship_n but_o the_o invocation_n practise_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v all_o the_o solemnity_n and_o circumstance_n of_o divine_a worship_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v rob_v god_n of_o the_o peculiar_a act_n of_o his_o worship_n which_o be_v idolatry_n and_o he_o must_v be_v very_o dull_a indeed_o who_o can_v distinguish_v this_o invocation_n from_o a_o casual_a or_o accidental_a meeting_n with_o a_o bishop_n at_o church_n and_o kiss_v the_o hem_n of_o his_o garment_n or_o ask_v his_o benediction_n on_o one_o knee_n r._n p._n but_o where_o there_o be_v different_a object_n in_o themselves_o and_o
say_v if_o christ_n be_v the_o sacrifice_n he_o must_v be_v slay_v again_o at_o every_o mass_n as_o he_o be_v once_o on_o the_o cross_n or_o you_o can_v assign_v no_o destruction_n which_o you_o say_v be_v necessary_a to_o such_o a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n r._n p._n do_v not_o you_o observe_v t._n g.'s_n word_n that_o christ_n be_v whole_a under_o either_o species_n and_o his_o blood_n separate_v from_o his_o body_n not_o real_o but_o mystical_o only_a and_o in_o representation_n p._n d._n how_o be_v that_o whole_a christ_n under_o the_o bread_n and_o whole_a christ_n under_o the_o wine_n and_o the_o blood_n separate_v from_o the_o body_n not_o real_o but_o mystical_o only_a and_o by_o representation_n this_o be_v admirable_a stuff_n and_o true_a mystical_a divinity_n if_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n do_v remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a where_o be_v the_o true_a proper_a sacrifice_n where_o be_v the_o change_n make_v if_o not_o in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n if_o that_o be_v uncapable_a of_o a_o change_n how_o can_v it_o be_v a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n if_o the_o blood_n be_v not_o real_o separate_v from_o the_o body_n where_o be_v the_o mactation_n which_o must_v be_v in_o a_o propitiatory_a sacrifice_n if_o christ_n do_v remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a after_o all_o the_o sacrificial_a act_n where_o i_o say_v be_v the_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n t._n g._n have_v far_o better_o say_v and_o more_o agreeable_o to_o scripture_n antiquity_n and_o reason_n that_o there_o be_v no_o real_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n on_o the_o altar_n but_o only_o mystical_a and_o by_o representation_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v that_o religion_n which_o admit_v no_o external_a visible_a sacrifice_n 512._o must_v needs_o be_v deficient_a in_o the_o most_o signal_n part_v of_o the_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n p._n d._n i_o pray_v remember_v it_o be_v a_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n which_o you_o contend_v for_o and_o now_o tell_v i_o where_o it_o be_v in_o your_o church_n do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o mimical_a gesture_n of_o the_o priest_n at_o the_o altar_n in_o imitation_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o cross_n if_o that_o be_v it_o the_o necessary_a consumption_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n will_v be_v no_o comfortable_a doctrine_n to_o the_o priest_n do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o consecration_n of_o the_o element_n which_o be_v visible_a but_o you_o say_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n consist_v in_o the_o change_n and_o we_o can_v see_v no_o visible_a change_n make_v in_o they_o and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n beside_o if_o the_o sacrifice_n do_v lie_v in_o the_o change_n of_o the_o element_n after_o consecration_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n than_o the_o element_n be_v the_o thing_n sacrifice_v and_o not_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o destructive_a change_n be_v as_o to_o the_o element_n and_o not_o as_o to_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n or_o do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o swallow_a down_o and_o consumption_n of_o the_o species_n after_o consecration_n by_o the_o priest_n but_o here_o likewise_o the_o change_n be_v in_o the_o accident_n and_o not_o in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a though_o the_o species_n be_v consume_v and_o i_o think_v there_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o change_v one_o seat_n and_o be_v sacrifice_v for_o all_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v change_v in_o be_v only_o its_o being_n no_o long_o under_o the_o species_n but_o t._n g._n i_o suppose_v will_v allow_v it_o to_o be_v whole_a and_o entire_a still_o do_v it_o then_o lie_v in_o pronounce_v the_o word_n of_o consecration_n upon_o which_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o the_o blood_n under_o that_o of_o wine_n and_o so_o separate_v from_o the_o body_n but_o this_o can_v least_o of_o all_o be_v since_o t._n g._n assure_v we_o that_o whole_a christ_n be_v under_o the_o bread_n as_o well_o as_o under_o the_o wine_n and_o so_o there_o can_v be_v so_o much_o as_o a_o moment_n of_o real_a separation_n between_o they_o and_o we_o know_v how_o necessary_a for_o other_o purpose_n the_o doctrine_n of_o concomitancy_n be_v tell_v i_o then_o where_o be_v your_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n which_o you_o boast_v so_o much_o of_o since_o according_a to_o your_o own_o principle_n there_o be_v nothing_o that_o belong_v to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n be_v external_a and_o visible_a and_o consequent_o your_o own_o church_n labour_v under_o the_o defect_n t._n g._n complain_v of_o r._n p._n but_o what_o make_v dr._n st._n so_o bitter_a against_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o altar_n since_o the_o most_o true_a and_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v allow_v it_o etc._n as_o mr._n thorndike_n dr._n heylin_n and_o bishop_n andrews_n and_o do_v not_o this_o rather_o look_v like_o betray_v the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o defend_v it_o p._n d._n i_o see_v now_o you_o be_v wheel_v about_o to_o your_o first_o post_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v time_n to_o give_v you_o a_o space_n of_o breathe_v your_o great_a business_n be_v to_o set_v we_o at_o variance_n among_o ourselves_o but_o you_o have_v hitherto_o fail_v in_o your_o attempt_n and_o i_o hope_v will_v do_v i_o do_v not_o think_v any_o two_o or_o three_o man_n though_o never_o so_o learn_v make_v the_o church_n of_o england_n her_o sense_n be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o public_a act_n and_o office_n belong_v to_o it_o and_o in_o the_o article_n to_o which_o t._n g._n sometime_o appeal_v 31._o your_o sacrifice_n on_o the_o altar_n be_v call_v blasphemous_a figment_n and_o dangerous_a imposture_n but_o as_o to_o these_o three_o person_n i_o answer_v thus_o 1._o mr._n thorndike_n as_o i_o have_v show_v already_o 88_o declare_v against_o the_o true_a proper_a sacrifice_n define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o a_o innovation_n and_o a_o 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