successions did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste the Roman Seate And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty nor succession when by plaine open dealing we may reduce and must needes referre our faith to that which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde 3 Euery man in the primitiue Church compted the springe of his faith more pure if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures and shew the continuance thereof in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies eyther from any of the Apostles or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses The like doth Irenaeus And that these men specially named the Church of Rome it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marcion Nouatus But none of these fathers as M. Allen woulde haue it appeare was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea they were ready to accept For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely haue reproued Victor as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not haue taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles Hieronym woulde not haue bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda est Et Gallia Britania Africa Bersis Oriens Indiae omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis Si authoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside Both France and Britayne and Africa and Persia and the Easte and India and all barbarous nations worship one Christ keepe one rule of trueth If authoritie be sought the world is greater then one citye c. Loe Syr here is a Church and christianity and a rule of trueth with out the byshoppe of Rome with out the Church of Rome yea and contrary to the church of Rome For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome he sayth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem what bring you me the custome of one citye and Augustine him selfe that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles I trowe fetched Zosimus Bonifacius and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa tooke them with plaine forgerie and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice Consilio Milebitano Africano As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange is for lacke of skill and right iudgement For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome moueth vs now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome Aske Tertullian he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Therefore it was a true Church therefore it was an apostolicke Church which because it doth not nowe neither hath done of many yeares and hath nothing to boast of but the empty names of many good bishops but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes therefore it is nowe a false church and a company of heretikes departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule maugre all their beardes In which ordre of Byshops finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine I will go seeke with the stray a newe mother Church to founde my faith vpon If all be in this succession salfe and sounde what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother and spring of our belefe to seeke other which haue often erred when they stoode and nowe be almost wholy decaide But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith it is not to be thought straunge that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke which they euer leaned vnto in the stormes of schisme and heresie The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession to haue beaten downe all their forefathers the heretikes of all agies They feare their fall whose steppes they follow They vtter much malice torment them selfe in euery sermon in vaine that Church feeleth no sore but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers she hath bidden greater stormes then this first by tyraunts then by heretikes last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes In all which she yet standeth and euer riseth to honour as she is most impugned Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in euery sermon in euery playe in booke and balate men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters nor often hearde of his name beganne straight upon their busy ralinge to conceiue by reasonable discretion that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vpon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name they saw the Pope euer in their way neuer out of their mouth and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vpon some great importance and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians and disease of the Donatistes and common to all heretikes they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men was to driue awaye the pastor that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke And which was the pricke of all their endeuours to take from vs the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith that in stopping the heade of that condeth and plentifull well of our faith
ceremonies as Sarum Yorke Bangor c. in England she hath not vnitie in faith for it is not yet determined of one of the greatest articles of Popish faith whether the Pope be aboue the church she hath no holy functions of God his spirite but prophane vsages of mens inuentions she hath no true miracles but the power of Antichrist in lying signes and wonders She hath nothing lesse then the true sense of God his worde which submitteth the same to her owne corrupt and changeable iudgement She is not bewtified with estates commended in Scripture as Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and Teachers but with Popes Cardinalls Monkes Chanons Fryers c. In steede of virgines she hath filthy strumpets her Nunnes or else such foolish virgines as bring no oyle in their lampes she hath no Martyrs but obstinate traytors as Becket Fisher More c. she hath no confessors of trueth though she haue ten thousand mainteyners of falshood and lyes Wherfore if these be the notes of the Catholike Church the Church of Rome can in no wise be that same 3 Proue vnto me that this is not the true Church or that we be not bound to obey this Church and no other in all controuersies and doubtes raysed either by the difficultie of the Scripture or by the vayne contention pride of heresie and I recant I Haue proued euen immediatly before that not one of those notes which you count to be markes of the true Church is proper to your Church And therefore it is not the truth neither ought it to be obeyed in any thing And as for doubtes that arise by difficultie of Scripture or contention of heresie must be resolued and determined as it is abundantly declared before onely by the Scriptures for the hard places of the Scripture must be opened by easie places and heretikes must be confuted by the Scriptures for there is neuer heresie but there is as great doubt of the Church as of the matter in question onely the Scripture is the stay of a Christian mans conscience which I woulde wish that you would truely embrace and recant The 27. article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Moreouer let any man proue vnto me that the true onely Church of God may at any time be voyd of God his spirite THe true and onely Church of Christ can neuer be voyd of God his spirite and yet she may erre from the truth and be deceiued in some thinges euen as there is no true Christian man that is voyd of God his spirite for he that hath not the spirite of Christ is none of his Rom. 8. yet may euery true Christian erre and be deceaued in some things according to the saying of the Scripture euery man is a lyar Wherefore the whole Church militant consisting of men which are all lyars may erre all togither as euery part thereof although neither the whole Church nor any true member thereof be voyd of God his spirite 2 Or falsely interprete any sentence of holy Scripture THis gentle offer must needes be taken I will proue vnto you that the church of Rome hath falsely interpreted diuers sentences of scripture and therefore by that which she hath done it cannot be doubted but that she may do it S. Augustine was in this error that he thought Infantes must receiue the sacrament of the body and bloude of Christ vnder paine of damnation and was deceiued by false interpretation of this scripture Except ye eate the fleshe of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloude c. Ioan. 6. This error and false interpretation he affirmeth to be common to all the Westerne church to Pope Innocent him selfe Contra duas epist. Pelag. ad Bonifacium lib. 2. cap. 4. cōtra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. Furthermore the second Councell of Nice how many textes of scripture doth it falsely interprete which it were to tedious to repete yet for examples sake I will reherse some of them God made man to his owne image Gen. 1. therefore we must haue images in the church No man lighteth a candle and setteth it vnder a bushell Math. 5. therefore images must be set vpon the altars As we haue heard so we haue seene in the City of our God Psal. 48. that is God must not be knowen by onely hearing of his worde but also by sight of images If these be not true interpretations I reporte me to you Beside these I will bring you a sentence of holy Scripture not onely falsely interpreted in sence but also falsified in wordes and concerning not a small matter but euen one of the cheefe articles of our Faith. It is written in the 10. chapter of the Gospell after S. Iohn the 29. verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My Father which gaue thē vnto me speaking of his sheep is greater than all This sentence hath the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the 3. where were present 70. Metropolitanes 400. Bishops 12. Abbates and 800. Priors commentualles in all 1300. Prelats falsified in wordes after this maner Pater quod dedit mihi maius est omnibus that is That which the Father hath geuen me is greater than all This sentence they alleage to proue that God the Father begetting his Sonne from euerlasting gaue his owne substance vnto him the wordes be in the 2. Canon Pater enim ab aeterno filium generando suam substantiam ei dedit iuxta quod ipse testatur Pater quod dedit mihi maius est omnibus At dici non potest quod partem suae substantiae illi dederit partem retinuerit ipse sibi cum substantia Patris indiuisibilis sit c. that is to say For the Father begetting his sonne from euerlasting gaue him his owne substance according as he himselfe witnesseth that which the Father gaue me is greater than all But it can not be said that he gaue him part of his substance and kept parte vnto him selfe when as the substance of the Father is indiuisible c. Goe your wayes now and perswade vs that your church can not interprete any sentence of the scripture falsely when the Laterane Councell which is your represented church hath thus both falsefied and falsely interpreted this scripture Perswade men that they may safely leane to the interpretation of your church when among a thousand and three hundred Prelates gathered canonically in a Councell not one was founde that coulde espie such grosse abusing of the worde of God but let it passe in a Canon vnder the name of the whole Councell Perswade men that in all controuersies condemning of errors they must be ruled by the determination of your Church When the Fathers of the Laterane Councell can not confute the error of Ioachim Abbot concerning the Diuinitie of Christ but by falsefying and false interpreting of scripture These few examples of an infinite numbre I haue set forth because they are sufficient both to satisfie your chalenge and to perswade the simple that the
dayes they thinke they haue a good argument against the Catholikes Therefore they woulde father transubstantiation vpon this Councell the adoration of the Sacrament vpon that Pope indulgencies vpon that byshop c. For they be as saulcie with Gods Church Councells chiefe gouernors as we be with the Iacke strawes of Geneua And yet when they haue traualed to their heartes ake they can finde no one thing first inuented by any of them whome they falsely name to be the authors thereof But well seeing it is so stronge an argument of heresie to haue the ofspring of a later author with plaine prouisò of Gods Church for his markinge let vs adde so much strength to our cause to haue the father of the contrary falshood knowen and noted of the antiquity by his name 3 If you haue not a better vnderstander then you are a rule giuer your rule is false for though you hedge it in with many conditiōs yet you leaue out the chiefest which is that the opinion it self be cōtrary to the truth first preached by the Apostles or else it is no heresie though it may be truely fathered vpon any man priuate or publike sooner or later And here I muse why you put in the condition of a priuate man belike if the Pope inuent a new doctrine because he is a publike person that can not erre it must not be taken for heresie In your second rule except you vnderstand that the opinion of him which is withstāded be new and of his owne inuention the withstanding thereof no not by good men maketh it not false They that defended that heretikes should not be rebaptised were withstoode by Cyprian and all the Bishops of Africa who were notwithstanding their error in the vnitie of the Church yet were they not heretikes nor their opinion heresie because it was not of their inuention but of the word of god And wheras you affirme that we can not find any of those thinges inuented by them by whome we say they were inuented though we trauail vntill our hartes ake I aunswere though you seeke vntill your head ake lye vntill you haue worne your tongue to the stumpes you shall neither finde those things in the word of God nor to haue any other authors thē the writers of your owne sect haue named to be the fathers of most of them And that you charge vs with like saucines towards your Prelates that you vse toward the Iacke strawes of Geneua if you had not thereby confessed your selfe to be a saucy Iacke you might haue giuen vs occasiō to think no lesse of you For although perhaps you count the chief teachers of that Church for Iacke strawes yet the worlde can testifie that there is more grauitie and modesty in the lightest persons of all that Church then hath appeared of many Popes and Cardinalls of your Church of Rome 4 Epiphanius that notable man in his booke that he wrote for the confutation of all the heresies that were before his time and in other of his workes too nameth an obscure fellowe one Aërius to be the first author of this heresie that prayers and sacrifice profiteth not the departed in Christ. But what maner a fellowe he was and how lickely to be the founder of such a schoole thou shalt perceiue best by the writers wordes When Aërius coulde not obteine the byshopricke of Eustathius deposed after that he was once perfectly well skilled in Arius doctrine he inuented new sectes of his owne affirming that there shoulde be no offering for the departed and of him loe the scholars were called Aërians Let not the simple whome I woulde helpe in this cause be deceiued by the liknes of these two names Arius and Aërius for this later was the author of their secte and was a follower of the first called Arius in his doctrine beside And of the same sect and sectmaister S. Augustine thus sayeth following Epiphanius The Aërians were so named by one Aërius who taking snoffe that he coulde not get a byshopricke fell into the heresie of Arius first and then added therevnto other heresies of his owne makinge saying that we shoulde not offer sacrifice for the deade nor obserûe the solemne appointed fastes of the Church but that euery man should abstaine when he liste And there both he and Epiphanius doe recken moe of his holy opinions which I omit For it is enough for our purpose and to confunde all the heretikes of our dayes that this opinion was noted as it spronge vp in the primitiue Church for heresie and the authors not onely condemned as heretikes in that point but in many other thinges beside For I neuer reade of nor yet knewe any heretike but if he once mistrusted the catholike Church the Deuill was hable to perswade with him as well in a numbre of matters as in one And that is the cause that any man seduced falleth from one falshood to an other till he wholy be drowned in the waues of tempesteous doctrine And when he commeth once at the bottom then God knoweth he setteth light by the matter contemneth it and is often past recouery as it is sayde Peccator cum in profundum venerit contemnit Euen so did this Aërius first through ambitious pride fall to the Arians sect but because he counted it nothing glorious to be a scholar he woulde be a maister and that of a misheuous matter and a matter repugnāt to the sense of all Christes Church which before his preaching generally as after receiued and faithfully vsed prayers and oblation for the deade Of which consent of the vniuersall worlde and the heretikes follye in withstanding the same the sayde Epiphanius sayeth thus I will report his wordes in Latine because they sounde very well though him selfe wrote not in that language Assumpsit ecclesia in toto mundo assensus est factus antequà m esset Aërius qui ab ipso appellantur Aëriani quis autem magis de his nouit hic ne seductus homo qui etiam superest nunc an qui ante nos testes fuerunt c. Thus in english The Church hath receiued this trueth through the wide worlde it was sattled in all mens mindes before Aërius was borne or any of his secte that be nowe called Aërians And who I pray you is most like to knowe the trueth of these thinges this false wretche yet liuinge at this daye or else the faithfull witnesses that were before our time Beholde here you worshipfull maister ▪ you may suerly take greate cause of comforte in his liuely worde mary Sir he might haue bene an Archbishoppe in our dayes for he loued neither fasting nor praying He was fayne to be an heretike for anger because he coulde not be made a bishoppe then who now if he were in this happy age when the light is more plentifully powred vpon the people might haue bene promoted at Caluins decease to the ouerlooking of Geneua But his opinion was
church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humanae iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinoruÌ„m dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist. 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist. 48. Vincentio Epist. 111. Fortunatiano Epist. 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certi sumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quis quam nostrum in iustitia sua sed in scripturis Diuines quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesa Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris â—am quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christiâ— puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indâ—fferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he
charge them with other authorities that the Papistes alleage beside the authoritie of holy scriptures And in his booke De Vniâ—ate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes the 16. chapter Sed vtril ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris oftendant quia nec nos c. But whether they holde the church or no let them shew none other wise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not say that men ought to beleue vs that we are in the Church because we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable other Byshops of our communion haue commended to vs or because it is set forth by the Councels of our felowe byshops or because so many myracles of hearing requests or healinges are don in the holy places which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole worlde so that the bodies of Martyrs which were hidden so many yeares which thinge if they will aske they may heare of many were reuealed vnto Ambrose and that at the same bodies one that had bene many yeares blinde very well knowen in the citie of Millayn receyued his eyes and eye sight either because this man dreamed or that man was rauished in the spirite and hearde a voice that he should not ioyne himselfe to Donatus or that he shoulde departe from the faction of Donatuâ— for when soeuer such thinges are don in the Catholike Church they are to be allowed because they are don in the Catholike church â–ª but the church it selfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike because these thinges are done in it By this Augustine declareth first that heretikes must be confuted onely by the scriptures and secondly that neither Councells succession of byshops vniuersality miracles visions dreames nor reuelations are the notes to trie the Catholike church but onely the scriptures Moreouer in his booke De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam c. A weake person seeketh the Church he wandreth and seeketh the church â–ª what sayest you The church is of Donatus side Enquire for the shepheards voice Reade me this out of some Prophet reade me this out of some Psalme rehearse me it out of the lawe rehearse it out of the Gospell rehearse it out of the Apostle out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed ouer all the worlde And a litle after Tu accusas non Euangelium c. Thou accusest not the Gospell thou accusest not the Prophet not the Apostle of whome this voyce speaketh to me I beleue him other I beleue not But thou wilt bring forth decrees I will also bring forth decrees shoulde I beleue thine beleue thou mine likewise I beleue not thine neither do thou beleue mine then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde sounde betwen vs bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side c. These places maye sufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church shoulde ouerthrowe heresies namely by the worde of God onely which thing also Leo the first byshop of Rome in his Epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainely confesseth saying Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem c. But those men fal into this foly which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth haue not recourse to the voyces of the Prophets not to the writings of the Apostles not to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues And therefore they become maisters of error because they haue not bene schollers of trueth Of the same iudgement was the whole Councell of Constantinople the sixt as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde haue simply and without subtiltie taken vpon them the preaching of the Gospell and haue bene content with the constitutions of the Apostles suerly matters shoulde haue bene well and in good case neither shoulde painefull contention haue bene exercised against the authors of heresies nor against the fauorers of priests Here the Councell confesseth that the heretikes and schismatikes grow so fast because they were not beaten downe by preaching of the Gospell and authority of the scriptures Thus I haue declared by example and authority of these Fathers that the true Church of Christ hath conuicted all heretikes onely by the scripture 2 And what Church it was that hath alwayes stande still and stedfast whilest all other Congregations as well of Arrians as Anabaptistes Aerians Nouatians Vigilantians Iouinians and the rest haue decaied THe true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast and vnseparable from Christ her heade when all heretikes haue bene and shal be confounded But the true Church hath not alwaies florished in wordly peace and tranquilitie for vntill the tyme of Constantine the great which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruell persecution in most places and soone after againe vnder the Emperors Constantius Constans and Valens it was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome was infected with the same heresie After that when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperor the temples of Idolls were opened and gentilitie againe restored so that the Church suffered great detriment To be short when the barbarous Goathes Vandales Alanes and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse But when Mahomet in the East Antichrist the Pope in the West seduced the world with most detestable heresie then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps the woman clothed with the Sonne which you your self confesse to be the Church was so persecuted by the Dragon that she fled into the wildernes there to remaine a long season Where she hath not decayed but ben always preserued vntil God should reueale Antichrist and bring her againe into open light which his holy name be praysed is now brought to passe in our dayes to our inestimable comfort and his euerlasting glory 3 And if it can be proued that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours hath mightely ouerthrowne these foresayd sectes and other of all sortes I recant IT hath bene already proued sufficiently that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onely by the worde of God as a most infallible rule hath ouerthrowne heresies of all sortes But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon by which heresies are cut downe to be sufficient for that purpose neuer was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretikes therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretikes not by authoritie of the Scriptures but by fire and sworde and cruell warre as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses Albigenses Bohemians and in our dayes with the true Christians But where her power of fire and sword could not preuayle there hath she not ouerthrowne such as she condemneth for
church if we could name such notable persons as you speake of in all ages florishing in their gouernment and ministerie And it is a good argument that the Popish church is not the church of Christe because it was neuer hidden sence it first sprang vp in so much that you can name all the notable persons in all ages in their gouernment and ministerie and especially the succession of Popes you can reherse in order vpon your fingers in which beadroole neuerthelesse you must name many tyrants many traytors one whore many whoremongers many Sodomites many murtherers many poysenors many sorcerers and Necromancers and from Boniface the third all blasphemous heretikes and Antichristes But our church which hath not had so many registers chroniclers and remembrancers hath perhaps fewer but yet honester men to name we can name Peter Paule Mathew Iohn c. Marke Luke Timothe Agabus Epaphras c. Iustinus Irenaeus Cyprianus Athanasius Hylarius Ambrosius Augustinus c. Gyldas Bertramus Marsilius de Padua Ioan. de Ganduno Bruno Andagauensis VVickleue Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage c. With the first namely Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets we consent wholly in all pointes of doctrine with the rest in the cheefe and most substantiall articles of faith alwayes agreeing with any man so farre as he agreeth with the worde of God. 3 And if he can proue vnto me that their Church hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that any Church or Congregatiō but ours hath kept that charge thē I recant FOr some of those officers I haue twise aunswered before that they were not ordeined to continue alwaies with the church wherefore they are not to be exacted of vs but such officers as are necessary for the conseruation of God his people in the vnitie of faith and the knowledge of Christ our Church hath neuer lacked although in time of the great defection and Apostasie whereof S. Paule doth prophesie 2. Thess. 2. there were but few as there were but fewe members of Christ his Church notwithstanding that through iniurie of the time the remembraunce of all their names is not come vnto vs And although we could rehearse in order as many successions in our Church as the papistes boast of in theirs yet were that nothing to proue it to be the Church of Christ which must be tried onely by the Scriptures as S. Augustine sayth in his booke de vnitate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes cap. 16. Sed vtrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod Ecclesia sumus quia ipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus Optatus vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius vel alij innumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopi c. But whether they holde the Church or no let them shew none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not therefore say that men must beleeue vs that we are in the Church because we hold the same Churche which Optatus of Mileuitum hath commended or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable Bishops of our communion Euen so we require at the Papistes handes that shewe them selues to holde the Church not by succession of Bishops or rehearsing of their names but onely by the Scriptures for although we did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly succession on our side we would not require men to beleue vs but onely because we proue the doctrine of our Church by the authoritie of the Scriptures But as for the popish church neyther hath nor euer had any of those officers which S. Paule speaketh of for Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets she can chalenge by no reason seing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine vttered in their writings in steede of pastors teachers she hath wolues dūme dogges or false prophets which either teach not at all or else teach the doctrine of deuills the dreames of men And further I would desire none other place in all the Scripture to ouerthrow the popish Hierarchie which is the greatest glory of their Church then this place of Paule Ephes. 4. he speaketh of Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and teachers But where are Popes Cardinalls popish archbishops Bishops Preestes Deacōs Subdeacons Exorcistes Cantors Acolyts Ostiares Monkes Friars Chanōs Nunnes c. Wherfore I cōclude that all these popish orders are no offices in the Church of christ And especially seeing the Apostle both in this place Eph. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. by these offices proueth the vnitie of minde he acknowledgeth no Pope as one supreme head in earth which might be very profitable as the Papists say to mainteine this vnity for if there had bene any such office appoynted of God S. Paule in no wise woulde haue omitted it especially when it made so notably for the confirmation of his purpose which was vnitie To conclude if it be sufficient or any thing worth to rehearse the names of them that haue orderly succeded in all ages in the bishops sees in an outwarde face of the Church the Greeke Church is able to name as many as the Latine Church and in as orderly succession Wherefore if you be as ready to performe as to promise you recant The nynth article may be deuided into nyne demaundes 1 And for the necessary vse and execution of the foresayd offices they must further be asked what Sacramentes the Protestants ministred for the space of a thousand yeares togither in which they confesse their congregations to haue bene neare or else wholy hidden THey ministred those Sacramentes which Christ did institute namely the Sacrament of baptisme and the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ at such times as the cruell tyrannie of you Papistes did not hinder them to come togither for such purposes 2 VVhat correction they kept and discipline for offenders THey did vse such discipline as was vsed in S. Cyprians time when persecution hindered not the free course of it As he doth often complaine in the places aboue rehearsed They did admonish secretly before witnesses and when persecution stayed them not they did also excommunicate 3 To whome they did preach their Fayth TO such as woulde geue them hearing as VVickleue to the Englishmen Iohn Hus to the Bohemians VValdo to the Frenchmen and so of the rest 4 How did they reproue heresies THey reproued heresies by the worde of God and patient sufferinge of your tyrannie the one you may reade in their workes that are yet extant of VVickleue Bertrame Hus c. The other in histories of your owne writers 5 VVhere did their principall Pastors sit in Iudgement I Might aske you where the Apostles did sit in iudgement and you are neuer able to shew me for I reade as one sayth that they stoode often to be Iudged but I neuer reade that they sat in iudgement vpon others And so I aunswere of the principall Pastors of our Church especially in time of persecution 6
but he was of our Church and Religion And I reade that king Edward the third both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini 1371. and at other times with diuers other noble men defended his cause in so much that so long as he liued all the popish byshops coulde do him no harme yet did he openly inueigh against the Pope calling him Antichrist and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatioÌ„ both in the vniuersitie of Oxeford where he was reader and also in his sermons abroade as appeareth by his bookes and English homilies which yet are coÌ„mon to be seene with vnlesse he had bene supported and maintained by the kinge and other potentates coulde neuer haue continued so long as he did Further haue you not hearde of Zisca and Procopius two mighty Capitaines which defended the Bohemians from the tyrannie both of the Emperour the Pope and almost all the Princes of Germanie For what cause did Paule the second Anno Domini 1466. condemne George a noble and a worthy Prince king of Bohemia for an heretike and depriued him of his kingdome was it not for defending the Protestantes in his dominion Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates haue not onely offered but haue in deed taken in hand to defend our church which you thought vnable to be shewed wherfore I chalenge your promise you must recante The 11. article is so confuse that it is harde to bring it into any certeine numbre of demandes 1 Againe I requier of the Protestants to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelihoode when the true church as they compt theirs decayed I Answer euen in the Apostles time there arose many heresies which did not a litle trouble the Church but immediatly after the Apostles time while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the craft of Satan some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupied in greater matters were either not espied or not regarded as may be knowen by the writinges of Iustinus Martyr and Irenaeus two of the most auncient writers sence the Apostles time Iustinus was in this error that he thought that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into Deuills It seemeth also that the Church in his time was in some error about second mariages and diuorcements Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ liued here 50. yeares which he sayeth was receyued of them that heard it euen of the Apostles mouthes Also both he and Papias which was before him and was the disciple of S. Iohn are charged by S. Ieronym in Catalogo Script Eccl. to haue held this error that Christ should raigne a thousand yeares after the Resurrection here in the flesh whereby it is manifest seeing these auncient fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stayned with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times 2 VVhat yeare the Religion of the Papistes came in and preuayled ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entred into the church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the deuill planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist Yet we may well say that the religion of the Papistâ—s came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obteyned his Antichristian exaltation which was in the yeare of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of mony obteyned of Phocas the trayterous murtherer and adulterous Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the Church Since that time that deuilish heresie hath alwayes increased in error vntill the yeare of our Lord 1414. in which the Councell of Constance decreed to robbe the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood From this time it hath againe decaied being mightely subdued by the bright beames of the Gospell shining in the world and at the length shall be vtterly destroyed 3 VVhether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none could preach against it as it first entred WHen the coÌ„ming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible the very elect should be deceiued and a general departing from the faith was foreshewed and the Church to be driuen into the wildernes what maruell were it if none of our Church could preach against it as it first entred yet because you speake of the first entring of popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie you shall heare that when it first began to aduaunce it selfe there wanted not some either to preach or write against it When Victor bishop of Rome about the yeare of our Lord 200. passed the bondes of his authoritie in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia many bishops withstoode him and especially Irenaeus bishop of Lyons and Policrates of Ephesus as witnesseth Eusebius libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian also reproueth Cornelius bishop of Rome for that he was moued by threatning of heretikes to receiue their letters did not send them backe into Africa to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus bishop of Rome was bold to communicate with Basilides and Martialis two Spaniards that were iustly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their owne prouince sought to restore them Cyprian and his felow bishops of Aphrica being required to giue their aduise gaue counsell that in no wise they shoulde be receiued not a litle blaming Stephanus that beinge far of and ignorant of their cause he would take vpon him to defend such wicked men lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus threatned excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia because they thought that such as were baptized by heretikes shoulde be baptized againe he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria and diuers other godly bishops as appeareth by his Epistle wrytten to Xystus Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. Cyprian also reproueth him very sharply for the same opinion accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Pompeium and in his epistle to Quintinus he sayth plainly that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy that other men should obey him as his inferiors When Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Caelestinus bishops of Rome all on a row chalenged prerogatiue ouer the bishops in Aphrica by forginge a false Canon of the Nicene Councel they were withstoode by all the bishops of Aphrica who decreed that none vnder paine of excommunicatioÌ„ should appeale to any bishop beyond the sea Concil Aphrican cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chiefe see should not be called prince of priestes or highest priest but onely bishop of the chiefe see Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus byshop of Rome dealt hardly with the
prayer what waye of ministring of the sacraments your Church had before Papistry as you call it did preuaile in the worlde IVstinus Martyr in his second Apollogie to the Emperour declareth plainely what order of seruice and ministration of sacramentes our Church had before Papistry preuayled On the daye called Sonday sayth he there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the Citie or in the countrie and the monumentes of the Apostles or the writinges of the Prophetes are reade vntill it be thought sufficient when the reader hath made an ende he that is our ouerseer or cheefe minister maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good thinges that are reade After this we all stande vp together and make our prayers and as we haue saide before when our prayers are ended there is brought forth bread and wine water and the cheefe minister doth likewise with all his might yelde prayers and thankesgeuing and the people aunswereth Amen Then is made distribution to euery one and receyuing of those thinges for which thankes was geuen and to them that be absent it is sent by the deacons Such as are riche and willing doe geue almes what they will c. By this one authoritie it may be seene though other might be brought what order of seruice and ministration of sacraments our Church vsed before Papistry gat the vpper hande 2 Shew one booke of Communion or what els you list that was in English or lacked prayer for the departed or inuocation of Sainctes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receyue or els that the preest coulde not consecrate nor say Masse himselfe or shew any note in a Communion booke that the people shoulde take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should geue no honor to it shew this booke or any leafe or line of this booke IT may trouble a wise man to aunswere all the questions that a foole can propounde you requier to see a booke of Communion in English or that lacked c. When it is confessed that the English nation receiued their religion first from Rome at such time as Religion there was verie corrupt what marueill is it if we can not shewe you such a Communion booke as you require but we can easily shew you out of the scripture the the Communion ought to be ministred in the vulgare tongue that prayer for the deade and to the deade ought not to be vsed that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a priuate masse that the substance of the bread is not changed that the elementes of the sacrament are not to be honored these I say we can proue out of the worde of God the Catholike writers of the olde Church And though perchaunce it wil be harde to finde a communion booke in English yet haue I founde you a canon of the Laterane Councell that it ought to haue bene translated into English yet are there founde diuers monumentes of Antiquitie as Prayers Psalmes and Homilies c. in the olde English or Saxons tongue in which the reall presence transubstantiation and other poinctes of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted There may be shewed you also Bybles both the olde Testament and New in the English tongue of diuers translations in olde written hande Also great bookes of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in olde English written hande with diuers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters if these woulde do you any good you might haue the sight of them when you please 3 Or any Church or Congregation that euer had any Authenticall seruice but ours and I recant THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in with Romish seruice had they not trow you Authenticall seruice which continued in the faith of Christ euen from the Apostles time The Grecians also Orientall churches haue they not vnto this day their Authenticall seruice which is not yours If you can not deny this you should recant The 13. article hath 2. demaundes 1 Furthermore I requier to know what shoulde be the cause that the Protestants them selues doe receiue all Byshops Priestes Deacons and other officers spirituall of all sortes of our Catholike church and doe admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered both to preach minister sacraments and to exercise spirituall iurisdiction no lesse but rather more than if they were of their owne ordering where we of the Catholike church doe not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fitte for any spirituall function than other lay men ALthough all godly men wishe more seueritie of discipline to be vsed in receyuing them that come out of heresies to serue in the Church than is commonly practised in England yet you are highlie deceyued if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops priests deacōs any better than the state of lay men but farre worse for we iudge them to be nothing els but Antichristianitie heresie and blasphemie And therefore we receiue none of them to minister in our church except they forsweare your religion And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering but a new calling vnto the ministerie 2 Therefore vpon this presumption that they doe not onely admit our ministring of sacraments but also the lawfull ordering of the ministers for the same if they can shew me why our church hauing by their owne consent and approuing lawfull priestes and bishops should not be the true church I recant YOu presume to much as I saide before to thinke that we receiue your orderinge to be lawfull or your ministring of sacraments to be pure And if you gather that we admitte your ministration of sacraments because we doe not rebaptize them that were baptized by you we maye likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments because you doe not rebaptize them that are baptized of vs nor marrie againe those that are married in our Church wheras you compt mariage to be a sacrament so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church than your accepting of our doinges doth allow our Church And as touching the sacrament of Baptisme because you reteyne the Institution in baptizing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost and in asmuch as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister but of God we receiue it as of other heretikes which likewise reteine the Institution Wherefore there is no cause why you shoulde thinke we allow yours to be the true Church thereby So that there is good cause why you shoulde recant The 14. article hath 5. demandes 1 Also I demande what furniture or commodity in seruing God the Christianity of any age or any part of Christendome had euer by your Congregations THe seruice of God hath small neede of furniture in outwarde thinges for
God being a spirite is not worshipped with outward pompe but with spirituall and inwarde reuerence And as for other furniture that is necessary was decreed to the Church by the Emperour Constantine and his successors that were of our Church before the reuelatiō of Antichrist Notwithstāding the Church was in better case before such furniture was graunted than it was since Therefore it is a small reason to chalenge the Church of Christ by outwarde furniture 2 VVhat Churches did you builde for your assemblies and seruice OVr assemblies were kept in secret places long time after Christes Ascension in most cuntries that were subiect to the Romane empire Wherefore the building of materiall churches proueth nothing at all the builders to be members of the mystical Church that is the body of christ Howbeit in such realmes and cuntries where the faith of Christ was receiued by publike authoritie as in this lande of Brytaine there were churches builded as our Chronicles declare And when Constantinus had geuen peace to the Church he also builded Oratories and great Synagoges called Basilicas for our assemblies and seruice 3 VVhat Bishoprickes for the gouernment of the Church did you finde AS the church continued longe without materiall churches so also without large possessions for the lyuing of bishops yet in Brytish Church our histories make mention that the possessions and places of the Pagane Flamines and Archiflamines were conuerted to the vse of Ecclesiastical bishops and archbishops so soon as Lucius the king receiued the faith Also the same histories do testifie that when Augustine came into Britayn there were still 7. bishops and one archbishop among the Britaines And in the Romane Empier Constantinus and other Christian Emperors appointed great possessions for the mainteyning of the ministers of the Church 4 VVhat Vniuersities Schooles or Colledges did you euer erect THe Church of God hath alwayes had schooles or Vniuersities for the mainteinance of godly learning For the first Colledges of monkes in solitary places were nothing els but Colledges of studentes that were after as occasion serued taken to serue in the Church as appereth by Chrysostome in his booke De Sacerdotio where he sheweth that Basilius who was a Monke with him was taken by violence and made a minister of the church as he him selfe was afterwarde Also in the bishops house was a colledge of studentes and our histories testifie that at Bangor in Wales was a great Vniuersitie of learned men Also of late dayes you may heare that diuerse Vniuersities Scholes and Colleges are erected by Protestants in Germanie and other contries that haue receiued the gospel As at Wittemberge Geneua Zuriche Conigsperge in Prussia c. 5 Name one Church not builded in all fashions as well for the making of the chancells the forme of the aultars the vse of the chalices the signification of the vestiments as also for the speciall intent of the builders thereof Name one of them in the whole Church of Christ either erected for your Faith Church seruice or not prepared in all sorts for catholike practises Proue vnto me that any of all those thinges were euer prouided for any other seruice and Religion then ours or that they be monuments of any other Fayth and Church then the common Catholike and I recant HEre are many wordes to litle purpose What if it were graunted that all churches that now remaine were builded by Papistes and for popish vses what had you wonne thereby The same chalenge might the Idolaters haue made to the Apostles Shew vs a temple in all the worlde that was not builded by Idolaters and to mainteyne Idolatrie Certeinly they could shew none when the Temple of Ierusalem was destroyed But for all your bragges we are able to shewe that such Churches as were builded by true Christians were not builded to such ende as yours are for they were all builded in the honour of God and the most of yours in the honour of creatures for wheras you haue one Church in the honour of Christ you haue neare a thousand in the honour of Sainctes For Basilius magnus in his 141. epistle proueth the holy Ghost to be God because he hath a Temple For Omne Templum Dei Templum est Euery temple is the temple of god Also Didymus in his booke De spiritu sancto which S. Ieronym translateth vseth the same reason and to the same purpose S. Augustine in the same matter is very plentifull as in his booke De vera Religione cap. 55. speaking of the Sainctes he sayth Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute nec eis templa construimus c. Wherfore we honour them with loue and not with seruice neither doe we build temples vnto them for they wil not be so honored of vs because they know that we our selues when we are good are the temples of the highest In this saying beside his iudgement for building of temples note that he will not haue Sainctes to be honored with seruice which he calleth seruitus and is the same that dulia is contrary to the Papistes which will worship them with seruice called dulia or seruitus Also in his 174. epistle to Pascentius he sayth the holy Ghost could not haue our bodies to be tēples except he were God And in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 56. he sayth howe should he not be God which hath a temple Also in the 8. booke cap. 27. De ciuitate Dei. Nec tamen nos ijsdem martyribus templa c. he sayeth Christians builde no temples vnto Martyrs which were to make them gods And in the 22 booke cap. 10. De ciuitate Dei. Nos autem Martyribus nostris non templa sicut dijs sed memorias sicut hominibus mortuis quorum apud Deum viuunt spiritus fabricamus Nec ibi erigimus altaria in quibus sacrificemus martyribus sed vni Deo martyrum nostro sacrificium immolamus ad quòd sacrificium sicut homines Dei qui mundum in eius confessione vicerunt suo loco ordine nominantur non tamen à sacerdote qui sacrificat inuocantur Deo quippe non ipsis sacrificat quamuis in memoria sacrificet eorum quia Dei sacerdos est non illorum Ipsum verò sacrificium corpus est Christi quod non offertur ipsis quia hoc sunt ipsi that is We truely do not build temples to our martyrs as vnto gods but memories as vnto dead men whose soules liue with god Neither doe we there set vp aultars in which we should sacrifice vnto the martyrs but to God onely which is God both of the martyrs and of vs doe we offer sacrifice at which sacrifice they are named in their place and order as men of God which haue ouercome the world in his confession yet are they not called vpon by the Priest that doth sacrifice for he offereth sacrifice to God and not to them although he doe sacrifice in their memorie because he is the Priest of
God and not of them and the sacrifice is the body of Christ which is not offered vnto them because they them selues are the same Here also beside building of churches note that no sacrifice ought to be offered to Martyrs but prayer is a sacrifice therefore it ought to be offered onely to god Secondly that Martyrs were not called vpon in tyme of the sacrifice but onely named for remembrance Thirdly that Altares were not builded in the honor of Martyrs or other Sainctes as they be in Popish churches as our Ladies altar S. Peters altar S. Laurences altar c. Fourthly that the bodie of Christ which he sayeth was the sacrifice that was offered was not the naturall body of Christ but his mysticall bodie because he sayeth the Martyrs and it are all one whereby it is manifest that he meaneth the sacrifice of thankes giuing offered to God for the redemption of his church by the death of Christ. Wherfore if this one place were well wayed it will interpret and aunswere all places of the auncient doctors where mention is made of sacrificing the body of Christ at the time of the communion But to returne to building of churches the same Augustine contra Maximinum Arrianum Lib. Titul 11. hath these wordes Nunc si templum alicui sancto angelo excellentissimo de lignis lapidibus faceremus anathematizar emin a veritate Christi ab Ecclesia Dei quoniam creaturae exhiberemus eam seruitutem quae vni tantum debetur Deo Si ergo sacrilegi essemus faciendo templum cuicunque creaturae quomodo non est Deus verus cui non templum facimus sed nos ipsi templum sumus that is If we shoulde builde a temple of wodde and stones to any holy and most excellent Angel shoulde we not be accursed from the Trueth of Christ and from the Church of God because we should shew that seruice vnto a creature which is due onely vnto God Therefore if we shoulde be sacrileges by making a temple to any creature how is he not true God to whome we doe not make a temple but we our selues are a temple If this be true how be not the Papistes accursed from the Trueth of Christ and from the Church of God which builde and vpholde churches to Angells as S. Michaels S. Gabriels c So that to builde churches as Papistes doe is church robbing or sacrilege Furthermore whereas you will vs to name one church whose chancell is not builded in all fashions to serue poperie First it is manifest that the first Churches which were builded for Christians had not the same fashion of chancels and other partes that most churches haue in Englande for that purpose reade the Panegyricall oration made before Paulinus byshop of Tyrus Euseb. lib. 10. cap. 4. In which is described the fashion of that church builded in that citie farre vnlike the moste parte of churches at this day in all partes and specially in the chaÌ„cel which was in the middest of that church a place compassed in with grates or wodden latesses called Cancelli wherof this worde chancel is deriued and the aultar stoode in the middest of it wherof some similitude remaineth yet in olde Cathedrall churches Contrariwise your chancells in most churches be at the East ende and the aulter hard at the wall there was also but one alter in that church but you in euery church must haue many it is certaine also in their church the Ministers and Deacons stoode rounde about the table or aâ—lter but so they can not about your aultars except some of them stande on the toppe of the wall or in the windowe Moreouer if you marke the most parte of olde churches in Englande you shall plainely see that the chancells are but additions builded sence the churches of likelihoode by the parsons that disdained to haue their place in the middest of the people as the olde manner was Also you may see some churches builded rounde as at London the Temple and another is at Cambridge of the same fashioÌ„ And some churches haue the steple at the Est ende very vnhandsomely for placing of the roode lofte Againe many churches haue crosse Isles in which the people can not see the chancell nor the high aultar which argueth that there was no vse of such chancells when they were builded For such churches as are latelie erected haue the chancell and church all of one building and are made of such fashion that men maye see the highe aultar in euery parte of them Beside this in the Orientall church as their ceremonies are diuers from yours so no doubt the fashion of their temples differeth from yours As for chalices the church in the beginning was coÌ„tent with wodden cuppes and then came Zepherinus and brought in the vse of glasses Acacius Amidenus is commended for selling the golden and siluer vessels of the church to redeme captiues Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 21. S. Ambrose also Offic. lib. 2. cap. 8. sayth the church hath golde not to kepe it but to be bestowed for necessarie vses for which it is lawfull to breake melt and sel euen the holyest vessells of all But of your church it is true that one said of olde time ye had wodden chalices and golden priestes but now you haue golden chalices and wodden priestes your vestimentes are of as good stuffe as your chalices The olde church knew none such but as your owne Authors write when they wente to celebrate they changed the affection of their minde rather than the garmentes of their body as Antoninus witnesseth of Fulgentius Howbeit we are content that your church by her gorgeous garments as well as by other thinges shoulde declare it selfe to be that woman which is described to be clothed in purple golde perles and such like ornamentes Apoc. 17. Finally wheras you will vs to name one church that for the speciall intent of the builders was not prepared in all sortes for Popish practises Although I could name many yet for examples sake I name Pantheon a church in Rome prepared by the speciall and onely intent of the builders foâ— Cybelle the great mother of the gods and for all false gods of the heathen which now is called the church of Mary and Alhalowes Then this church with many other in Rome and other places being monuments of the faith and religion of the Paganes and not of yours except yours and theirs be all one as they are very like you are bounde by your promise to recant The 15. article conteyneth in effect 3. demandes 1 Againe name any one company of men in the Christen world that in all articles of Faith be in one meaning and belefe IT is an easie matter to name diuers companies agreeing in one meaning beliefe as the church of the Grecians the church of the Aethiopians the church of the Chaldeans Moscouites c. But especially the whole company of Protestantes in Europe doe agree in all necessary articles of true faith by
into two Lutherans and Zuinglians As for Illyrians if you call them of Flaccius Illyricus they be Lutherans in opinion of the Sacrament and differ onely in ceremonies which can not diuide them from the faith Caluine and they that be of his iudgement agree plainly with Zuinglius so that of fiue names there remaine but two sortes differing in opinion whereunto you ioyne the Swenkefeldians and Anabaptistes Now to your question these be not all of one Church for the Swenkefeldians Anabaptists be detestable heretiks but the Lutherans Zuingliās as it pleaseth you to cal thē are of one true church although they differ in one opinion cōcerning the Sacramēt for although the one affirme a real presence the other deny it yet they both cōsent in this that the body of Christ is receiued spiritually not corporally with the hart and not with the mouth Wherfore this dissention is not so great though there be error on the one side but that they may be both of the Church of Christ as well as S. Cyprian the Martyr and all the Bishops of Africa and a great many of Asia differing with Stephanus bishop of Rome and the rest of his opinion in rebaptizing such as were baptized by heretiks 2 And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one Church WE haue alwaies abhorred the heresies of the Anabaptistes Libertines Swenkefeldians Dauidians Seruitians and all such But that Luther Zuinglius may be both of one Church differing onely in one opinion of the Sacrament is declared before 3 Or that each of their sects may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with an other in high points of our Religion SAluation is the gift of God and not in the power of any company or sect of men but this we affirme that out of that Church whereof we count Luther and Zuinglius notwithstanding their diuerse opinions which is but in one matter of the Sacrament to be members there is no saluation 4 Or that I should beleue all these rather then the Catholike Church or one of these more then another all making such a bold chalenge of the truth and Gospell NO man requireth you to beleue all these but the true Catholike Church onely Neither doe we requite you to beleue any one company of men more then an other but to beleue the trueth before falshood Now which of them hath the truth that they all brag of you must search in the word of truth desiring the spirite of truth that you may vnderstand and beleue the truth and so without doubt you shall come to the knowledge of the truth and of the Church of God which is the piller and stay of truth 5 Let the Protestants of all these kindes put their heades together and shew me a reason of these thinges and with all let them among them selues agree to what sorte of these sectes they woulde haue me and I will recant SVch is your impudencie in this matter as in all other that you woulde make men beleue that the Anabaptistes Swenkefeldians Libertins and other abhominable heretikes be Protestantes But it is well that you can make none but fooles thinke so as for the Protestantes they neede take no great deliberation to aunswere your demandes but you had more neede to laye your heades together to reconcile the Thomistes Albertistes Ockamistes Scotistes Reales and Nominalls which be all sectes of Papistes and especially your Canonistes and diuines about the articles of your religion that is whether the Pope be aboue the Councell or the Councel aboue the Pope Whether the Pope may erre and not the Councell or whether the Councell maye erre and not the Pope These two the Popes determination and the Councells determination being the rules of trueth in your religion and not agreed vpon how can any trueth be certeine in your Church As for Luther and Zuinglius they agree vpon one rule of trueth that is the worde of God and differ onely for the applying or laying of this rule yet but in one matter that not the greatest But you Papists some holding of the Pope and some of the Councell as rules of truth can haue no ground nor certainty thereof Therefore if you woulde haue me or any man to be of your belefe First determine how I shal know when I am in a right beleefe one sayeth if the councell alloweth it an other sayeth if the Pope alloweth what shall I doe when one of these is against an other yea when one Pope is against an other and one councell against an other shall I thinke that trueth changeth so often as they change Moreouer when one Pope graunteth that the councell is aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Likewise one councell graunteth that the Pope is aboue the councell and that the councell may erre as it hath bene within the 200. yeares the councells of Constance and Basill determined that the councell was aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Contrariwise the councell of Ferraria and Florence determined that the Pope was aboue the councell and that the councell might erre Martinus 5. the Pope chosen by the councell of Constance was of the same iudgement that the councell But Eugenius 4. that gathered the councell of Ferraria and Florence against the councell of Basill was of the contrarie iudgement Nowe I woulde saye he were a wittie fellow that coulde reconcile this geare together For if he be a Canonist that holdeth this opinion that the Pope can not erre whē the Pope him self graunteth that he may erre which waye shall he turne him selfe For if this proposition be true the Pope can not erre then this is true also that the Pope may erre for if he can not erre he can not erre in saying so And if the Pope erred in saying he coulde erre where he can not erre then this proposition is false the Pope can not erre so one proposition shal be both true and false which is impossible Likewise if he holde that hilde that the councell can not erre and the councell it selfe confesseth it that it may erre Gentle maister N. reconcile me these together which concerne a case that hath bene in practise and still is in the Papistrie and maye here trouble a mans conscience that woulde beleue your church and if he haue any wit restraine him for euer comming into your church If you can not vntie this knot nor winde your selfe out of this maze vnlesse you will be still obstinate it were wisedome for you to recant The 18. article hath but one demande I demande whether they were euer of the true Catholike church which either tooke to them selues newe names of religion according to the calling of any secte maister or liked not so well the name of Catholike or Christian as of their seuerall teachers as to be called of Arius Arians or of Caluine Caluinistes or of Luther Lutheranes
for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was bidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching â—xhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commoÌ„ consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preachâ—ng the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall dishes but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutioÌ„ she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers
Marsilius of Padua preached in France when VValdo preached at Lyons and there about In England when VVickliffe taught in Bohemia when Iohn Hus and Ieronyme of Prage did florishe 2 Or that it might be called holy which neuer had Baptisme or other sacramentes to sanctifie any of her followers withall IT had the spirite of God to sanctifie the true members of it and it had sacramentes to testifie the same Also did not the Bohemians baptise Were not pauperes de Lugduno baptised c. But if you count their Baptisme no Baptisme why did you not rebaptize in Queene Maries time all those that were baptized by our Church in King Edwards time 3 Or that it should be one which as soone as it grew vp in the world was diuided into so many sundry sectes NOne of vs will graunt you that our Church began first to grow when it was last brought to light and knowledge of the world for it hath continued euen since christ But if there arose or were renewed many heresies with it that is no new matter but an olde practise of the deuill For as soone as the Church of Christ beganne to grow vp after his ascension euen in the Apostles time there were many sectes and heresies As the Iewes that mainteyned the lawe they that denyed the Resurrection among the Corinthians Hymenaeus and Philetus Simon Magus Cerinthus Ebion Marcion Basilides Valentinus Carpocrates c. So that there were many more heresies at the first preaching of the Gospell in and immediatly after the Apostles time then at the last restoring of the publike preaching therof vnto the worlde in our dayes And yet the Apostolike Church was one Church and so is ours at this day one and the same 4 Or that it might be called Apostolike which could neuer coūt by orderly succssion from any Apostle or Apostolike man. YOu are neuer able to answere the arguments that are brought to proue that Peter was neuer Bishoppe at Rome And then where is all your braggs of Apostolike sea and succession c. But be it that Peter was there except you proue succession of doctrine and faith as wel as succession of men your successiō is not worth a straw And our Church which holdeth all the doctrine of the Apostles and none other but the doctrine of the Apostles shall be truely called and founde the Apostolike Church when your with all her succession of Antichristes whore whoremongers heretikes Sodomites blasphemers coniurers c. shabe Apostaticall rather than Apostolicall 5 Or the secret base contemptible defaced and disordered Congregation was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all Nations HOw base and contemptible soeuer it be in the eyes of the wicked despisers of it yet did it not only require but also subdue all nations to the obedience of the Faith so many as were euer subdued in the dayes of the first Christian Emperors and before And sence when it was most defaced by the tyrannie of Antichrist it was of such maiestie that it both required and obteined the obedience of the realme of Bohemia and in processe of time hath obteined the obedience of almost all the nations of Europe If the churche of Rome reteine the like maiestie why doth it not now requier the like obedience of all nations both Christians and Turkes you will saye It requireth but it can not obteine Euen so I aunswere of our Church it hath alwayes bene worthy to requier but it hath not pleased God that it shoulde alwaies obteine 6 Or that it was euer able to gather generall Councels THe foure best generall Councells were gathered by our Church and the Emperors that were defenders of the same and not by the byshops of Rome Neither were they Presidentes in them as it is manifest that other men were Authors of the Canons or distinctions As of the Nicene Alexander Bishop of Constantinople of the Constantinopolitane Nectarius byshop of the Ephesine Cyrillus byshop of Alexandria of the Chalcedonense Anatolius of Constantinople c. and in other generall Councells where the bishop of Rome was president I aunswere as Iohn Patriarche of Antioche did in the Councell of Basile his presidence was Honoraria ad beneplacitum Concilij eis data non authoritatiua nisi ex concessione aut permissione habente vim concessionis aut ex tolerantia that is For honor sake graunted to them so long as it shoulde please the Councell and not of authority but either by graunt or permission being of the force of a graunt or els of sufferance And I conclude as he doth the Pope was neuer President either of honor or of authority but by the graunt or permission of the Councell And how is the Popish church able to gather general Councells at this daye who will come at her calling Except a few Spaniardes and a ioly company of buckram bishops of Italie generall Councells of all the worlde can neuer be gathered but either whē there is a Monarchie or els which is not to be looked for that all the Princes of the worlde will consent together 7 Or exercise Discipline BEcause this demande hath bene aunswered so often before I will saye the lesse nowe The free course of discipline in time of persecution may be hindred As it was in S. Cyprians time when the members of the Church be dispersed but the power of discipline hath alwayes remained and when occasion serued bene executed As the Bohemians excommunicated the Adamites and the ciuill Magistrates punished them by the sworde 8 Or that these names proper by scripture and Doctors of the true Church coulde be euer chalenged by any right to their saide Congregation AS many of these names as are proper to the Church by scripture or Doctors agreeing with scripture haue bene alwayes iustly chalenged of right to perteine to our Church and Congregation I meane these 1 Corpus Christi OVr Church doth rightly chalenge to be the body of Christ which acknowledgeth Christ to be her only head Sauiour Redeemer Priest King Intercessor c. The Popishe church can not chalenge this name because she doth not acknowledge Christ to be theese only and wholly 2 Sponsa Christi THe spouse of Christ heareth the voice of Christ and is ruled thereby so doth our Church therefore she is spouse of christ But the Romish church goeth a whoringe after her owne inuentions committeth grosse idolatry and will in no wise be ruled only by the voice of Christ there she is not the spouse of Christ. 3 Vencidilecta Christo. HOwe tenderly Christ loueth his Church the true members thereof which haue receiued the first frutes of his spirit do better vnderstand in hart thā can be expressed with words howe he abhorreth the whore of Babylon the Romishe Synagoge the Scripture doth plentifully declare 4 Columba speciosa OVr Church expressing the simplicitie of a fayer doue may iustly chalenge this name But the Babylonicall Strompet your church in crafte and subtilitie is more
opening of Gods spirite But omitting this matter as touched by the way with two other pages following as containing nothing materiall to be aunswered I will come to the third leafe and second face where you promise an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand Which order of yours if you had not professed your selfe to obserue men might haue taken your hochpot to be such as your matter would bring forth that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state therof but when you are not content to haue your methode counted to be of the nature of your matter but you will needes make boast of an orderly proceeding in so disordered a cause you must not be offended if your confusion in steade of order be sometime discouered Howbeit the want of order were a small fault if the matter were pregnant and certaine But what assurance shall other men haue of your doctrine when you your selfe affirme and haue learned as you say out of Irenaeus that such doctrine and mysteries may not be safely had at such a mans hand as you are but onely of holy Priestes and Byshops which with the succession of their office haue receiued a sure and certaine gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father It is the duety not onely of a good teacher but euen of a good Christian to say with the Psalmist I haue beleued and therefore I haue spoken If you beleue not these matters why haue you vttered them â–ª â—f you beleue them then be bold to shew vs your grounds out of the word of god For other perswasion then â—uch as is grounded vppon the hearing of Gods worde will neuer of Christians be counted for true beliefe so long as the 10. chapter to the Romanes remaineth in the Canon of the Bible But I knowe your meaning you affect the prayse of humilitie and modestie For wauering and vncertaintie in faith among Papistes is counted modâ—stie but this modesty is soone forgotten and this boldnesse nowe vtterly refused in the next leafe â—ollowing is not onely resumed by your selfe but also enioyned to others Be bolde blush not you might say though you should for shame to charge any of our aduersaâ—â—es c. A sodaine chaunge he that euen now neither can nor must be bolde although he hâ—d many more giftes then he hath and studied much longer then he hath done to expounde the holy Scripture without daunger to him selfe and his hearers because he hath not the certaine gifte of truth with ordinary succession by and by is growne to such a full perswasion of truth expressely proued by argument and authoâ—itie that men must be bold vppon his warrant to charge all his aduersaries either to be helde thereby or else with no honesty to escape his handes A man would maruaile to beholde this speedy alteration if he did not vnderstand the true difference betwene the certaine faith of a Christian and the obstinate blindenesse of an hereticke For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of Gods word where vpon true faith is builded he will not he can not he must not be bolde to vnderstand the scriptures he wanteth that certaine gifte of truth but when he remembreth that he can not deceiue others nor retaine the glory of constancy him selfe by doubtfulnesse and vncertainty then he â—aunteth braggeth of the force of his feeble arguments and vnsufficient auâ—horitie But concerning the place of Irenaeus by him alleged I must admonish the reader that his meaning was not that euery one that succedeth in a Byshoppes seate hath as necessarily annexed to his see that certaine gifte of veritie wherby he may expound the Scripture without error as maister Allen perhaps woulde insinuate But that some in the first age of the Church as they succeded the holy Byshoppes and elders that were ordained by the Apostles in place and office so also it pleased God their father that they shoulde succede in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gifte of interpretation of the Scriptures which was but extraordinarie and for a season For if it had been an ordinarie thing that euery Byshop by succession shoulde receiue that gifte there shoulde neuer haue been any heretike Byshops as there haue been many and againe that prerogatiue which Maister Allen him selfe will affirme to be peculiar to the Byshop of Rome shoulde be made common to euery other blinde Byshop where so eâ—er he sat which were a great absurditie in popery it selfe And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures God gâ—ueth it still though not in such full measure nor coÌ„monly without ordinary meanes allowed in the Scripture as reading comparing praying neuer the lesse with as full persuasion in matters concerning Gods honour our saluation by his holy Spirite as euer he did bestowe the same in any age And as for the helpes of learning requisite for the same as knowledge of the tongues and rationall sciences there was neuer greater stoâ—e in the church of Christ son Christ his time ye if we shall iudge by the writings and stories of all ages vnlesse we will be as impudent as maister Allen we must say there was neuer so great store of learning in any age as Gods holy name be praised there is now in these our dayes in menne professing Christian religion with what conscience can maister Allen affirme that there was neuer lesse store of learning then in this age when euen in remembraunce of men that are aliue there was a great deale lesse store then is nowe but in their fathers and grandfathers time there was almost nothing but rudenesse and barbarousnesse euen with the same conscience that soone after he affirmeth that pleasure is euer ioyned to the Protestants doctrine which more preuaileth then the preachers perswasion If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all vnderstanding which they tast of that by the Protestants doctrine haue learned that they are iustified by faith Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual ioy in the holy Ghost whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth Rom. 14. we willingly would haue consented that such pleasure is alwayes ioyned to the Protestants doctrine but seeing it is more like you speake of carnall pleasures I must say thus much to confound your blasphemous tongue and to dashe out your slaunderous writing let the worlde witnesse that heareth our doctrine and God iudge that seeth our hearts whether carnall pleasures be ioyned to our teaching which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestnes vnfained repentaunce mortification deniall of our selues bearing of the crosse hatred of this world amendment of life holines and righteousnes and that vnder paine of euerlasting damnation And whether pleasure more then the godly perswasion of the preachers preuaileth to winne professors of our doctrine if it be not so clearly seene in this Church of England by the meanes of the great peace
and good workes shew their coÌ„uersion not only by wordes but in deed and in trueth c. With them the Byshop maie deale more gently whereas those that thinke it is sufficient onely to enter into the Church are charged in any wise to keepe the ordinary time c. Wherefore he that gathereth that paines are due to sinnes after remission of them by example of them that remitted no sinnes but after sufficient paines suffered for them or amendes made for them I holde him not onely malitious blinde but beastly vnreasonable 4 And if any man yet doubt why or to what end the Church of Christ thus greuousely tormenteth her owne children by so many meanes of heuy correction whome she might by good authoritie freely release of their sinnes let him assuredly know that she coulde not so satisfie Gods iustice alwayes by whome she holdeth her authoritie to edifie and not to destroye to bynd as well as to loose Although such dolour for offensies committed and so earnest zele may she sometimes finde in the offender that her chiefe and principall pastors may by their soueraigne authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come But els in the commoÌ„ case of Christian men this penaunce is for no other cause enioyned but to saue them from the more greuous torment in the worlde following In the which sense S. Augustine both speaketh him selfe and proueth his meaning by the Apostles wordes as followeth Propterea de quibusdam temporalibus poenis quae in hac vita peccantibus irrogantur eis quorum peccata delentur ne reseruentur in finem ait Apostolus si enim nosmetipsos iudicaremus a domino noÌ„ iudicaremur Cum iudicamur autem a domino corripimur ne cum hoc mundo dâ—mnemur Therefore sayth he it is of certaine temporall afflictions which be laid vpon their neckes that being sinners haue their trespasses pardoned lest they be called to an accompt for them at the latter ende that the Apostle meaneth by when he sayth If we woulde iudge our selues we shoulde not then be iudged of our lord And when we be iudged of our Lord then are we chastened that we be not damned with the worlde This onely carefull kindnesse of our mother therefore that neuer remitted sinne that was notorious in any age but after sharp punishment or earnest charge with some proportionall penaunce for the same doth not onely geue vs a louing warning to beware and preuent that heuie correction of the worlde to come which S. Paule calleth the iudgement of God because it is a sentence of iustice but also in her owne practise here in earth of mercy in pardoning of iustice in punishment she geueth vs a very cleare example of both the same to be vndoubtedly looked for at the handes of God him selfe by whome in the kingdome of the Church these both in his behalfe be profitably practised For if there were no respect of the dredfull day in the ende of our life nor any paine further due for sinnes remitted in the next world then were it cruell arrogancy in the ministers to charge men with penaunce needlesse to the offender and foly to the sufferer But God forbid any shoulde be so malipert or misbeleuing as to miscredit the doinges and doctrine of the Catholike Church which by the authoritie she hath to binde sinnes and the protection of the holy Ghost hath vsed this rodde of correction to the profit of so many and hurte of none euer sence our maisters death and departure 4 Marke here gentle reader what an absolute power of remissioÌ„ of sinns this Papist doth ascribe to the Church that she might he sayth by good authority freely release men of their sinnes with out satisfying of Gods iustice but that she will not except in some case where she findeth such dolour and zeale in the offender that her chiefe and principall Pastors may by there soueraine authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come Marke here the soueraigne authoritie of the Pope not subiect no not to the iustice of god For els how should the Popes pardons stand or Christes merites be excluded if the Pope had not power to doe by his soueraigne authority that Christ coulde not doe by his bitter passion to discharge penitent sinners of all paines to come you see therefore that the Popish church is not as a wife subiect to Christ her spouse to exercise on earth the authoritie of Christ in heauen according to his will but a presumptuous harlot to claime soueraigne authoritie in earth wherevnto he is bounde which is in heauen For otherwise though the olde fathers that were most earnest in maintaining the Churches authoritie as Cyprian Sermo de lapsis speaking against theÌ„ which thought it was sufficient if they were receiued by the ordinary authoritie of the Church although they were not truely penitent writeth thus Nemo se fallat nemo decipiat Solus dominus misereri potest veniam peccatis quae in ipsum commissa sunt solus potest ille largiri qui peccata nostra portauit qui pro nobis doluit quem Deus tradidit pro peccatis nostris Homo Deo esse non potest maior nec remittere aut donare indulgentia sua seruus potest quod in dominum delicto grauiore commissum est ne adhuc lapso hoc accedat ad crimen si nesciat esse praedictum Maledictus homo qui spem habet in homine Dominus orandus est dominus nostra satisfactione placandus est qui negantem negare se dixit Let no man sayth he deceiue him selfe let no man begile him selfe It is onely the Lorde that can shew mercy Onely he can graunt pardon to offenses that are coÌ„mitted against him who hath borne our sinnes Who hath suffered sorrow for vs whome God hath geuen for our sinnes A man can not be greater then God neither can the seruaunt by his indulgence remit or forgeue that which by so great offence is committed against the Lorde lest this offence also be added to him that is fallen away if he know not that it is fore shewed Cursed is that man that putteth his trust in man The Lorde must be intreated the Lorde must be pacified with our satisfaction which sayth he doth deny that man that denieth him In these wordes Cyprian not onely plainely denieth that absolute soueraigne authoritie of men which M. Allen affirmeth but also declareth what he meaneth by satisfactioÌ„ of god Namely that those which counterfected repentaunce and though by some outwarde obseruations to satisfie the Church might know they had to doe with God who was not pleased but with inwarde and harty conuersion whose knowledge they must satisfie with true repentaunce in deede as they seeke to satisfie iudgement of the Church by externall signes and tokens thereof But to returne to the common case of Christian men for the Popes cases be out of the common case of christen men M. Allen sayth penaunce and by penaunce he
that for feare or worldly respectes denied their faith and offered to idols who afterward the storme of tyrannie somewhat being caulmed confessed their faulte and did penaunce for the same by S. Cyprian other good byshops prescriptioÌ„ that then ruled the Church of those dayes By whom after due satisfaction made they were admitted to the communion of the Christian company receite of the holy Sacraments againe But all pastours not of like mercy of seuerity in the case some were suspended from the vse of the Sacraments longer and othersome by more clemency with speede pardoned againe Now S. Cyprian though he were very seuere in such a cause as in all his workes it doth well appeare yet he was blamed by Antonianus others that he dealte ouer mekely with such as denied their faith in so speedy admission of them to the peace of Gods church as they then termed that reconciliation alleaging that if such wordely wind wauerers might be admitted so soone after the open deniall of their faith then there woulde none stedfastly stande to death by confession of their belefe and their maisters name any more the refusers being in as good case as they if pardon might so soone be procured But S. Cyprians aunswere is this that their admission can not withdrawe any mans zele from martyrdom or confession of Christes name seeing their reconciliation doth not set them on so cleare bord as martyrs be VVho being tried by their bloud shal straight receiue the crowne of glory VVhen the others standing but vpon pardon of their sinnes and not discharged of due paines for the same must into prison notwithstanding till they haue paide their vttermost duety and by longe amending by fire at the last come to that reward which the martyrs atteined by sufferance at the first And thus I thinke this holy Martyr meaneth His wordes surely be singular and being well vnderstande they conteine as much matter for our purpose as can be possibly in so litle roume besides the exposition of the texte wherein we yet do stande But I will adde more that all may be saâ—fe on euery side 3 The place of Cyprian hath more couller but yet not so cleere for purgatory as M. Allen would seem to make it For first it is plaine by the wordes both going before and following after that he speaketh of adulterers that are pardoned in the Church of whome some bishoppes that were Cyprian his predecessours had so harde a iudgement that they did vtterly seclude them from reconciliation and allowed them no place of repentaunce but Cyprian was not of that vnreasonable seueritie for his Church did receiue them although they compted them not equall with martyrs or continent persons For it is one thing to be admitted by pardon as adulterers are but yet with some note of ignominie an other to come to glory as martyrs and continent persones doe It is one thing by denying of reconciliation to adulterers in this life to driue them to that prison from whence they shall not come till they haue payed the vttermost farthing an other thing to compt them vnreconciled like them that immediatly receiue the reward of there faith and vertue It is one thing for a man after he hath bene longe time vexed with sorowe for his sinnes to be reformed as one that hath bene long purged in the fire an other thing by suffering persecution to haue purged all his sinnes Finally it is one thing to hange vpon the sentence of God in the daye of iudgement as they seeme to do which being penitent for their heynous sinnes yet are not absolued from them by the Church An other thing to be assured of their crowne which haue striued lawfully And this I take to be the simple meaning of Cyprians words agreeing with the circumstaunce of the place But if they were otherwise ment by him surely they can not but with carte ropes be drawene to the Popes purgatory For those that stande by pardon he excludeth from glory and those that are reformed by sorrow and purged by fire he suspendeth vntill the last daye and then maketh them vncertaine of the sentence also which can not stande with the Papistes opinion of purgatory no more then that which he writeth in his treatise against Demetrianus towarde the ende Quando isthinc excessum suerit nullus iam locus poenitentiae est nullus satisfactionis effectus Hic vita aut amittitur aut tenetur c. When men are gone hence there is no place of repentaunce no effect of satisfaction while we are here life is either lost or helde And exhorting Demetrianus him selfe to repentaunce which had bene a wicked man and a persecutor of the Christians he sayth to him Tu sub ipso licet exitu vitae temporalis occasu pro dilictis roges Deum qui vnus verus est confessionem fidem agnitionis eius implores venia confitenti datur credenti indulgentia salutaris de diuina pietate conceditur ad immortalitatem sub ipsa morte transitur If thou although it but a litle before the ende and decay of this temporall life shall pray to God for thy sinnes which is the onely true God If thou desire confession and faith of his knowledge pardon is giuen to him that confesseth and holsome forgeuenes of the goodnes of God is graunted to him that beleueth and euen from the howre of death he passeth into immortalitie By this appeareth what Cyprian his iudgement was of purgatory and the effect of satisfaction after this life 4 Eusebius Emissenus an author of great antiquity and much credit in the Church of God helpeth our cause by this notable discourse following Hi vero qui temporalibus poenis digna gesserunt ad quos sermo dei dirigitur quod non exient inde donec reddant nouissimum quadraÌ„tem per fluuium igneum de quo propheticus sermo commemorat fluuius rapidus currebat ante cum per vada feruentibus globis horrenda transibunt Quanta fuerit peccati materia tanta erit pertranseundi mora quantum accreuerit culpa tantum sibi ex homine vindicabit flaÌ„mae rationabilis disciplina quaÌ„tum stulta iniquitas gessit tantum sapiens poena deseuiet Et quia sermo diuinus quodammodo aeneae ollae animam comparans Pone ollam super prunas vacuam donec incalescat aes eius illic periuria irae malitiae cupiditates quae puritatem nobilis naturae infecerant exudabunt illic stannum vel plumbum diuersarum passionum quae aurum diuinae imaginis adulterauerant consumentur Quae omnia hic ab anima separati per eleemosynas lachrymas compendij transactione poteraÌ„t Ecce sic exigere habet ab homine rationem qui seipsum pro homine dedit confixus clauis legem mortis fixit Thus it is in our tongue As for all such vnto whome for their offenses our Lordes word is especially directed that they shall not come
breaketh her faith of Baptisme shal be damned for mariage is not worth a rush For S. Paule sayth not she shal be damned for mariage but because she hath reiected the first faith that is such wanton young houswifes procede so farre that at length they forsake widowhood christianity and all But if M. Allen were posed where he findeth this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Scripture vsed for a vowe or promise made to God perhaps he would aunswere he is no Graecian then let him pose D. Hardinge or some other with the same question and with all let them shew how the first faith can be expounded for the last vowe that a body hath made if he haue made more then one For the Papists holde that these women made one vowe in baptisme an other of there widowhood What so euer M. Iewell hath affirmed against the Papistes he hath so substantially and learnedly defended that he neede not to haue any other man to aunswere for him Therefore if it were not to choke M. Allen in his owne coller I woulde trauaile no farther in this question The Church you say can not erre and that company is the Church which hath the Pope for their head if therefore it can be proued that the Pope and all they that take his part haue erred it is sufficiently shewed that the Church may erre S. Augustine was in this error as you will not deny that the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ was to be ministred vnto infants but of the same opinion he affirmeth that Innocentius Bishop of Rome and all the Church in his tyme was therefore the Pope and all the Church did erre reade Augustine contra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. where he sayth of Innocentius Qui denique paruulos definiuit nisi manducauerint carnem filij hominis vitam prorsus habere non posse which hath defined that infantes except they eate the flesh of the sonne of man can haue no life at all in them And by eating the flesh of the sonne of mā he meaneth eating the Sacramēt of his flesh and bloud as it is euident to them that wil bestow the reading of Augustines discourse in that place An aunsvvere to certayne obiections of the aduersaries moued vpon the diuersitie of meanings vvhich they see geuen in the fathers vvritings of the Scriptures before alleaged for purgatory and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiencie of Christes passion CAP. XI 1 BVt nowe the other side seeketh for some shiftes and draweth backe in this extremity thus That the places of the olde and new Testament now rather alleaged for my purpose and the proofe of purgatory though they be thus expounded of the doctours yet they may haue some other meaninge and sometimes be construed otherwise by the fathers them selues To which I aunswere and freely confesse that they so may haue in deede but the aduersary must take this with all that the pillars of Christes Church woulde neuer haue geuen this sense amongest other or rather before all other meaninges that probability or conferēce of scriptures did driue them vnto had it conteined a plaine faulsehood as the heretike supposeth it doth Yea had not the doctrine of Purgatory bene a knowne trueth in all ages it should neuer by the graue iudgemēt of so many wise men haue atteyned any colour of scripture For though many meaninges be founde of most harde places in all the Bible yet there is no sense geuen by any approued doctour that in it selfe is false And thinke you diuerse textes of the holy Scripture coulde haue caryed a false perswasion of Purgatory downe from the Apostles dayes to our time for true doctrine Marke well and you shall perceiue that the Church of Christ hath euer geuen roome to the diuersitie of mens wittes the diuision of graces and sondry giftes in exposition of most places of the whole testament with this prouiso alwayes that no man of singularity should father any falsehood or vntrueth vpon any texte but otherwise that euery man might abounde in his meaning Mary falsehood she neuer suffered one moment to take holde or bearing of any scripture vnreprehended Ecclesia multa tolerat sayth S. Augustine tamen quae sunt contra fidem vel bonam vitam non probat nectacet nec facit the Church beareth many thinges yet such thinges as be hourtfull to faith or good life she neuer approueth nor doth them her selfe nor holdeth her peace when she seeth them done by others Thereof we haue a goodly example in our owne matter So long as any conuenient meaning might be found out by the holy writers of that place alleaged out of S. Paule for such as shoulde be saued through fire she liked and allowed the same Some proued that the elect must be saued by long sufferance some said the tribulation of this life and world must trie mens faith workes some saide the greefe of minde in loosing that which they ouer much loued was the burning fire of mans affections some woulde haue the greuous vexation of departure out of this life to be a purgatory paines some construed the texte of the fire of conflagration that shall purge the workes of many in the latter day finally they all agreed that the temporall torment of the worlde to come is litterally noted and especially meant by the fire which the Apostle speaketh of All these so litle do disagree amongest them selues that not onely by diuerse men but of one man they might well all be geuen And being all in them selfe very true the holy Church so liketh and alloweth them eche one that yet by the common iudgement of all learned men that meaning for Purgatory paines she approueth as the most agreeable sense to the texte and whole circumstance of the letter But as soone as Origen went about to proue by the same scripture that all wicked men shoulde at length be saued after due purgation by fire then this pillar of trueth seeing an open falsehood gathered by the scripture of Gods worde coulde susteine no longer She set vp against this errour her pastors the graue fathers of our faith who ceased not as occasion serued to geue men warning of the deceite intended not onely still mainteining the doctrine of Purgatory but also expressely condemning all the reprehenders thereof as hereafter it shall be better declared and so misliking no sense that in it selfe was true the meaning of Purgatory yet hath bene of all the learned counted so certaine that in geuing any other likely exposition that was euer added with all as most consonant to the will and wordes of the writers So doth Theodoretus so doth S. Augustine and so in a maner did they all And as the saide holy doctour saith with whose wordes I am much delited by cause he of all other maketh trueth stand most plainely vpon it selfe One texte of scripture may well haue so many vnderstandings as may
holy Scripture may not haue any allowed sence approued to be the meaning of God the author thereof by consideration of the wordes nor conference of one place with an other but it must nedes haue such sence as your Church will fayne vnto it Finally other writinges are of credit according to the authoritie of the writers The holy Scriptures with you haue not credit according to the authoritie of God the author of them but according to your determination that maye conferre or perferre vnto them what you list whereby it is manifest that you Antichristian Papistes receiue onely the names of the canonicall scriptures and the metaphysicall wordes abstract from all sence but the authoritie meaning and credit you vtterly deny to be in them submitting them altogether to your owne selues and your most corrupt peruerse iudgement The rest of your tedious rayling vnto the ende of the chapter I know not why I should aunswere further except it were to waste incke and paper For the stocke of your fructlesse tree being digged vp by the rootes the proude toppes and braue braunches therof must nedes fal downe and wither away with it That the funeralls of the Patriarches both in the lavve of nature and Moises and Christ had practise in them for the reliefe of the soules departed CAP. IIII. 1 NOw therefore I haue great hope to trust so much of all studious readers for that loue which they beare vnto truth that they will geue creditte to the manifest wordes of Scripture which so plainly doe set forth not onely the benefite that ariseth to the departed by prayers but also witnesse that there was practise at Ierusalem by oblation and sacrifice for the same purpose by order of their law For otherwise would that good knight so highly commended neuer haue presumed to bring in any superstitious new vsage contrary to the rule of that Church neither would the Priestes at Ierusalem haue offered for the dead without contradiction vnder the gouernment of so good a bishop neither would the Author of she booke vpon so light a beginning haue praysed the fact or otherwise made mention of it then as of a new deuise of the same man VVhom I doubt not therefore rather to haue followed the continuall custome of the Church then to haue inuented any newe vnknowne order of his owne VVhich may well appeare at this day by the ceremonies and sacrifices of the olde lawe yet superstitiously obserued emongest the dispersed Iewes where emongest other rites of their lawe they offer and make solemne supplication for the soules departed as Antonius Margarita a Iewe that forsooke his profession and became Christian witnesseth in a booke that he made of the faith of the Iewes VVhere he reporteth out of their sacrifice this prayer Deus animarum fidelium recordetur in paradisum cum Abraham Isaac Iacob alijsque integerrimis sanctis collocet that is Lord remember the faithfull soules and place them in paradise with Abraham Isaac and Iacob and other thy perfect Sainctes and holy men And for that purpose they haue a memoriall booke as he sayth out of which the names of the departed are yerely recited But we much neede not this report herein for that may well appeare to haue bene vsed long before Iudas Machabaeus his dayes For what other thing doth that long mourning fasting charitable releuing of the poore and other common afflictions which men tooke vpon them at the obites of their friendes and fathers as well in the law of nature as afterward continually in Moises time what else can they meane but perpetual practise for the rest of their soules Looke how religiously Abraham celebrated the rites of his wiues funerall which the Scripture calleth Officium funeris the office of the Buriall which he fulfilled by weeping and lamentation made ouer the corps Neither can I thinke that the office and iust funeralls stoode in mourning or sorowyng without praying or other remedies of reliefe towardes the departed seeing especially that office of mourning by solemne dirigies as we nowe tearme them had place time and ordre by rule appointed to be executed yea and were not ended by many dayes together nor at one time nother As it appeareth that Ioseph and his brethern executed their fathers funeralls first fourty dayes in Aegypte and then in their owne country celebrabant exequias saith the text seuen dayes together So the children of Israel celebrated Moyses obsequies with thirty dayes solemne mourning in the downes of Moab Not by that weeping which procedeth of priuate affection towardes a mans friende for that can not be limited nor yet prescribed by rule as all these solemne dirigies were But questionlesse this office conteined for the reliefe of the deceased almes prayer fastes and teares all which may well be termed mourning songes or weeping ouer the dead for that time most cōuenient Of which the wise man geueth this precept Super mortuū plora VVeepe ouer the departed And that thou maiest well perceiue these publike rites of solemne dirigies to perteine properly to the due helpe of those for whome they be exercised S. Ambrose doubteth not to affirme that of those burialls in the lawe of nature the necessary obseruation of our Christian dayes monthes and yeares mindes kepte for the deade had their beginning saying thus in his funerall sermon made the fourtith daye solemnely kept for the memory of the noble Emperour Theodosius Eius Principis proxime conclamauimus obitum nunc quadragesimum celebramus assistente sacris altaribus Honorio principe quia sicut sanctus Ioseph patri suo Iacob quadraginta diebus humationis officia detulit ita hic Theodosio patri iusta persoluit quia alij tertium trigesimum alij septimum quadragesimum obseruare consueuerūt quid doceat lectio consideremus defuncto inquit Iacob praecepit Ioseph pueris sepultoribus vt sepelirēt eum repleti sunt ei quadraginta dies Haec ergo sequenda solemnitas quam prescribit lectio Bonus itaque Ioseph qui formam pio muneri dedit c. VVe kept of late the day of this noble kinges buriall And now againe we celebrate his fourtith dayes mind the prince Honorius his sonne assisting vs before the holy altares for as holy Ioseph bestowed vpon his fathers funeral fourty dayes dutie euen so doth this prince procure his fathers obsequies And because some obserue the thirde day and the thirtith other kepe customably the vij and the fourtith let vs looke vpon the text which readeth thus Iacob being departed Ioseph commaundeth the prouisours of the sepulture to bury him and so they did and made vp full fourty dayes in that obite this solemnity then must we fellowe prescribed by the scripture Good was this Ioseph that first gaue vs the forme and fashion of so holy a function By these wordes we see the antiquity of our Christian dirigies and diuersitie of dayes as yet it is vsed in
Gods worde or authorities of scriptures but such as is so pitifully wrested and drawen vnto them as euery man may see the holy Ghost neuer ment any such thinge as they gather of them 3 Holde on vpwarde still and Tertullian will witnesse with thee that in that floure of Christes Church with in lesse then CC. yeares of our maisters death Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis That oblations and sacrifice were yearly made at the xij monthes mindes of most men he meaneth both by the sacrifice of the Church and offeringes of the freindes of the departed as there also Repete apud Deum pro cuius spiritu postules pro qua oblationes annuas reddas Call to thy remembraunce for whose soule thou prayes and in whose behalfe thou makes yearly offeringes He speaketh of a freinde of his that practised thus for his wiues departure And in an other place he well declareth the duety of maried persons one towards an other if God by death separate them in sonder Pro anima eius orat refrigerium interim postulat offert annuis diebus dormitionis eius She prayeth for her husbandes soule and obteineth in the meane space ease and offereth euery yeare at the mind day of his passing hense And he letteth not to affirme that the maried couple that practise not thus do not beleue the resurrection Therefore he concludeth thus Nunquid nihil erimus post mortem secundum aliquem Epicurum non secundum Christum quòd si credimus mortuorum resurrectionem vtique tenebimur cum quibus resurrecturi sumus rationem de altetutro reddituri VVhat say you shall we fall to nothing after our death as the Epicure thinketh and not rise againe as Christ teacheth And if we beleue the resurrection of the deade then doubtlesse we shall be bounde to make accompt one of an other as we shall together rise againe Beware here my maisters once againe I must tell you you are going towardes the deniall of the resurrection so many as condemne the vsage of the Church in praying or offeringe for the deade Tertullian sayth you be Epicures in this point and so you be in all others I say you are past priuy muttering in your heartes that there is no God for you are come to plaine Manducemus bibamus cras enim moriemur Let vs eate and be mery we can not tell how longe we lieue I say you must aunswere for parting the affection of man and wife and the one must be countable at the day of iudgement to an other that they procured not the dueties of the deade by right of Gods holy Church for their soules departed Take heede therefore you are warned 3 Nay ho there M. Allen no higher then Tertullian And when we haue examined the testimonies of Tertullian in order as you haue brought them you shall haue small aduantage out of him yea your friendes shall thinke you had bene better to haue made no mention of him For first I must tell you that these three lines which are all that he hath written sounding that way are found in three bookes which all were written by him when he was an heretike separated from the catholike Church And therefore it may well be that all that he speaketh of prayers and oblations for the deade was onely in the conuenticles of the Montanistes of which sect he was an earnest defender rather then in the catholike Church And this coniecture seemeth the more probable because Cyprian which was afterward a catholike Bishop in the same city where Tertullian sometime had liued maketh no mention of prayers for the dead but onely of sacrifice for the Martyrs which was none other but the sacrifice of thankesgiuing lib. 4. Ep. 5. But admit that the Church of God in that time vsed these superstitious prayers and oblations for the deade let vs consider vpon what ground they were vsed The firsâ— place M. Allen allegeth in this forme Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis But Tertullians wordes in libro de corona militis be these Oblationes pro defunctis pro natalitijs annua die facimus We make oblations for the dead for our birthes on the yearly day By which it is euident that M. Allen did not read these wordâ—s him selfe but receiued them of some other mans collection or sound them in some booke of common places But to the matter Tertullian him selfe shall say for me that the same custome with many other which he there rehearseth hath no ground in the holy Scripture Harum aliarum eiusmodi disciplinarum si leges expostules scripturarum nullam inuenies traditio tibi praetendetur autrix consuetudo confirmatrix fides obseruatrix Of those and such like disciplines if you require the lawes of the Scriptures you shall finde none tradition shall be pretended to you to be the author Custome the confirmer and faith the obseruer It is good to take that which is so franckly giuen and more is Tertullian to be commended that confesseth the ground of his errour not to be taken out of the word of God then they that labour to wreâ—t the Scriptures to find that which Tertullian confesseth is not to be found in them I knowe the Papistes will aunswere that tradition is of as good credit as the Scripture is the word of God vnwritten as well as the Scripture is the word of God written But why then doe they not obserue all other things that Tertullian in the same place affirmeth to be tradition if tradition be the word of God why doe they not giue to them that are newly baptised a temper of milke and hony and from the day of their baptisme forbid dayly washing all the weeke after Why doe they not count it a wicked thinge to fast on the Sunday or to pray and worship God on their knees Why doe they not count it a wicked thinge to fast betwene Easter Whitsontide or to pray on their knees all that time Finally why doe not they crosse them selues in the forehead at euery steppe they set forth at comming in at going out at putting on of garmentes at putting on of shoes at washing at the tables at lighting of candles at beddes at stooles and at all thinges what so euer they doe What aunswere can they here make but that their Church may dispense as well with the word of God vnwritten which they cal tradition as she doth against the word of God conteyned in the holy Scriptures So that alwayes what so euer they prate of antiquitie customs traditions vnwritten verities or the word of God vnwritten the authority of their blasphemous church is aboue them all Now to the second testimony alleged out of Tertullian S. Ieronym shall testifie for vs that this booke as the other that followeth was written against the Church so was also his booke de corona militis when he was out of the Church whereby it may
qui me crucifigent Sacramentum aliquod vobis commendaui spiritualiter intellectum viuificabit vos You shall not eate this body which you see not drinke this blood which they shal shed which shall crucifie me I haue commended to you a sacrament which being spiritually vnderstoode shall quicken you As for Dionysius because he is a coūterfect antiquitie I will not vouchasafe to aunswere him Basill in his booke de spiritu sancto cap. 27. hath these wordes The wordes of inuocation when the breade of thankes geuing and the cuppe of blessing is shewed which of the holy Apostles hath lefte vs in writinge Before we goe any further I will take this by the waye that what so euer it was that he spake of it is not tought by the scripture no more then many other ceremonies that he rehearseth in the same place Howbeit it is plaine enough that he meaneth not that the wordes of inuocation were sayed vnto the breade or the cuppe but vnto God who was called vpon to blesse those his creatures that they might be sanctified to the holy vse of Christ his institution The shewing of the breade and the cuppe ▪ was not to adore it as M. Allen dreameth for then he woulde haue called it the body and bloode of Christ but either to stirre vp the people to praye effectually or to admonish them that all thinges were readye that they might prepare them selues to communicate And whereas he alleageth out of Augustine De Trinit lib. 3. cap. 10. that children were taught to call it God and Christ he shamefully abuseth his reader for no such thinge can be gathered out of Augustins wordes which are these Illas etiam nubes c. Nowe as touching those cloudes or fire howe the Angells did make them or tooke them vppon them to signifie that which they did bring message of Although the Lorde or the holy Ghost was shewed in these formes what man a liue doth know euen as yong children know not what is set on the altar and when the celebration of piety is finished is spent out whereof or how it is made whereof it is taken into the vse of religion And if they shoulde neuer learne by experience of their owne or of others and neuer see that shewe of thinges but in the celebration of the sacraments where it is offered and giuen and saide vnto them with most graue authoritie whose body and bloude it is they woulde beleue nothing els but onely that the Lorde hath appeared to the eyes of mortall men in that liknesse and that out of such a side being striken that the same liquor did flowe These wordes are plaine that Augustine affirmeth that no man knoweth more of those shapes in which the Angells did appeare then young children would imagine of the presence of Christ in the sacrament if they were not otherwise instructed then in telling them when they receiue it that it is the body of christ wherby the cleane contrary to that which Allen affirmeth is plainely gathered that children were otherwise instructed first by experience bycause they sawe breade els where then in the celebration and also by doctrine when they were able to vnderstande that it was not the Lorde him selfe in the shape of breade but onely a sacrament and representation of him And by the waye note here one practise of a notable error in Augustines time that the sacrament of the Lordes supper was geuen to children which wist not what it ment contrary to the worde of God who requireth men to examine them selues before they receiue it wherefore if any other practise were in his time or allowed by him contrary to Gods worde we are no more bounde vnto it then vnto this which euen the Papistes them selues will confesse to be erroneous Finally what the Christiās did by that they were sclaundered with all is a sory proofe they were sclaundered to haue worshipped an Asses heade to kill men and eate them to vse all maner of beastlines in their metings The rest of the practise that M. Allen nameth with out shewe of proofe I passe ouer as vnworthy of aunswere The practise of Gregory although it were much more modest then of his successors yet can it not be excused but it was contrary to his doctrine whereby he reproued an other in that he was not altogether cleare him selfe Bernarde was but of late time wherefore although he might note some abuses of the Masse yet he might also saye it him selfe but how often I can not tell Touching Ambrose which was sodeinely made a byshop before he was a perfect Christian if some steppes of hethenishe inuocation or rethoricall apostrophees and prosopopees appeare to be in him and some other also about his time yet was not that generally receiued of all the Church in his time nor agreable to the doctrine of S. Paule who sheweth that we can inuocate none but him in whome we beleue which to all true Christians is God onely 2 And where may we better beginne then with this famous Chrysostome he bare the last wittenesse with vs for the reliefe of the departed by the prayers and holy oblation therefore the practise of that excellent benefite shall first be shewed vpon him selfe This blessed man therefore being banished by the meanes of the Empresse Eudoxia for the defense of the Ecclesiasticall discipline there in exile departing out of this world was after her death by the happy and gracious childe Theodosius ▪ the yonger translated from his obscure resting place to Constantinople which was his owne seate there with meete honour to be buried where with grace wonderful dignity he ruled the Church before The History reporteth that the people of that citie as thicke as men euer went on grounde passed the waters of Bosphorus and couered that coste wholy with light and lampe with tapers and torcheis to bring that blessed byshoppes body that was their owne deare pastor home againe The which passing treasure being with all reuerence laide vp in the saide citie then loe the gracious good Emperour earnestly beholding the graue of S. Chrysostome made most humble prayers to almighty God for his father and mothers soule the late Emperour and Empres beseching him of pardō forgiuenes for banishing that good Catholike byshop because they did it of ignorance so the words may well be taken that he asketh Chrysostome him selfe mercy also for his parents offense vniustly committed against him and withall full kindly prayeth for their deceased soules And so being buried in his owne Church he was then by Atticus a worthy man his second successour written in the roule of Catholike bishoppes to be praide for at the altar euery day by name Cum Ioannitae saith Cassiodorus out of Socrates seorsim apud seipsos sacra solemnia celebrarent iussit vt in orationibus memoria Ioannis haberetur sicut aliorum dormientium episcoporum fieri consueuit VVhen Chrysostoms partakers saide Masse by them selues aside Atticus
gaue in commaundement that a memory should be had in the prayers of the Church for him as the custome was that all byshoppes after their death shoulde haue Here is now open practise of that which by wordes we proued before here is an euident testimonie of the vsage of the Greeke Church for the buriall of bishoppes and generall custome of keping their memoriall in the publike prayers and seruice of the Church It were not needefull to recite out of Eusebius the forme of Constantinus his funeralls kept in the same Church with solemnity of sacrifice singinge lightes and prayers Nor the buriall of the Emperour Constantius who as Nazianzenus writeth was brought forth with common prayses of all men with singing lightes and lampes all the night longe very honorably with which thinges saith he we Christian men thinke it a blessed thing to honour the memories of our freindes departed And if the aduersaries woulde here contentiously reason that these solemne rites of Christian burialls be nothing profitable or if the simple aske why they be profitable S. Chrysostome may instruct such as list learne and correct the other that list reprehende in these wordes Tell me saith he what all these festiuall lights in the buriall of the deceased meane what all this singing of Hymnes and Psalmes signifieth to what ende be so many priestes and musicians called together to which in fine he thus aunswereth do we not all these thinges to geue thankes to God and euerlasting glory that he hath deliuered the departed from the troubles of this mortall life do we not this to our comforte and honour of the departed And in the buriall of the Noble matrone Paula how the priestes did sing how the bishops of Hierusalem and of all Palestine and Syria for the most part caried torches how the religious both men and women did the rites of the dirigies how her almes folkes shewed their cotes to procure mercy euen as they did at Dorcas departure in the Actes of the Apostles how they cōtinued their singing and saying seuen dayes together at the Church in Bethleem where she was buried S. Hierom him selfe a true record thereof beareth witnesse in the like wordes as I haue recited and many moe which the feare of weereing the reader causeth me full sore against my will to omitte They so set forth not onely the substance of the thinge which standeth in prayer and sacrifice but also do proue against the enemies of good ordre that the smallest ceremonies that our Churchies of late haue vsed were not lately taken vp by our couetousnesse and superstition but with more aboundance and numbre and continuance and solemnytie practised in the flour of Christes Church in diuers principall partes of the worlde as at Hierusalem and Constantinople by the praysing and approuing of the grauest fathers of our faith 2 Why M. Allen what a mockery is this do you make bragge in the title of your chapter that you will shewe the practise of all holy men in words and prayers for the dead and nowe beginne your examples no higher then at Chrysostomes translation which was well neare 400. yeares after Christ The people with great plenty of lightes brought Chrysostomes body to Constantinople VVell this ceremony in carying torches at burialls being taken of the Gentiles they vsed to honour the memory of them that were deade as the ceremonies of the Heralds are vsed for the same ende What more The Emperour prayed for his fathers and mothers soules and as M. Allen thinketh but the story sayth not so he prayed to S. Chrysostome for them What else Atticus caused masse to be sayd for him that maketh vp all But where is any mention of masse or sacrifice of the masse M. Allen Are you such a cunning interpreter to expound celebrare sacra solemnia to say masse In deed such interpretations will help you well to finde that which else you might seeke long enough in the olde writers and goe without for all your labour It is all one with M. Allen to celebrate holy solemne seruice to say masse But you will say memory was made of him in the prayers so might there be and yet his soule not praied for ▪ but how agree you with your selfe M. Allen your opinion is that Theodosius praied to him as to a sainct in heauen howe then did Atticus cause him to be prayed for as one lying in purgatory I wisse you forget your selfe to much to vtter things so contrary so neare togither And as for the funeralls of Constantinus and Constantius what so euer you say haue no mention of Masse nor sacrifice of Masse In the buriall of Constantinus there is mention of prayer for his soule according to the error of the time and in the funeralls of Constantius there were lights but there is also shewed the vse of them as I haue touched already togither with the necessitie of some of them because they were lighted in the night The saying of Chrysostome with the example of the buriall of Paula shew nothing either of Masse sacrifice or prayer for the deade And whereas you bable of the rites of your popish dirige Ieronym saith al was singing of Psalmes and giuing thankes for her godly life happy departing Hebraeo Graeco Latino Syroque sermone Psalmi in ordine personabant Psalmes were song in Hebrewe Greeke Latine and Syrian language by course as there were diuers nations that came to honour the solemnitie of her funeralls Finally if your doctrine of purgatory were true yet Ieronym describeth her to be so perfect a woman as no prayers needed to be sayd for her her life was so full of good workes and her ende so full of faith And therfore M. Allen here is nothing for the sacrifice of the Masse whereof you made your promise to shew the practise in the chiefe partes of the worlde naming Ierusalem for one when Paula was buried at Betheleem and not at Ierusalem 3 And now S. Augustine being of Aphricke so farre from the other in distance of place yet ronneth ioyntly with them in religion He purposely writing of the solemne rites of Christian funeralls in that golden treatise De cura pro mortuis agenda thus after longe consideration of the whole cause determineth that the pompe of buriall with all such solemnyties as there vnto be in Gods Church ioyned is very seemely for that body which was the vessell of a Christian soule and an instrument or companion in well working whervnto it shall be also vnited in the resurrection for to receiue together the inheritance of the euerlasting kingdome But the lacke of these where they be not arrogantly contemned or can not be had is nothing hurtefull to the good nor the hauing any thing profitable to the wicked as the examples of Lazarus and the Riche man may well proue Therefore it is the sacrifice and prayers which properly do helpe or relieue the departed Curatio funeris sayth he
taking away of this olde faith of praying and offering for the dead all the workes of the same faith which ishued downe from that fountaine might shrinke with all or returne to the founders againe because there is no rowme to fulfil their willes how many Churches and Chappelles what Colledges or hospitalls woulde our newe no faith bring forth VVould not euery bishoppes wife builde a Church thinke you or founde a Colledge in such a necessitie lest their husbands shoulde be driuen to serue in a reformed french barne 6 Nowe as touching your vaine supposing if all such landes as were geuen to mainteine prayers for the deade or other like purposes either good or supposed to be good should reuerte to the heyers of their first founders for not performing the intent of the founders perhaps fewe monasteries colledges or hospitalles In Italy Spayne Fraunce or Flaunders shoulde enioyâ— one halfe peny worth of their landes or reuenewes They ment not onely to be prayed for but to be prayed for by men of honester conuersation then the greatest parte of those cloysterers are They are too well knowen to the worlde to be taken for that they be called holy religious and chaste But suppose as you sayde that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in though byshoppes wiues be not able to builde them yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquilitie vnder godly princes we shoulde haue as many and as faire builded Churches as the religion of Christ hath neede of Haue you not hearde of the Churches builded in Orleans and Antwerpe other places by the professors of the Gospell But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny I doubt not but all godly bishoppes had rather serue in a french reformed barne then in a popishe gilded minster And how so euer you iest like a scornefull caytifie of those holy assemblees of Gods children in Fraunce there barnes are more like those caues and vaultes vnder the earth that the olde Christian byshoppes were content to serue in before the time of Constantine theÌ„ your Idolatrous Babylonicall temples are like those princely buildings that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set vp for the publicke exercise of Christian religion 7 One of these mocke byshoppes complaines very sore in a booke of his that men be not now bent with such zele and deuotion to preferre Gods honour in maintenaunce of his Ministers as they were in olde time and as Constantinus with the like christiaÌ„ Princies in the primitiue Church were But the good man marked not wherevpon this colde deuotion ariseth he considereth not that this is the fructlesse effect of so idle a false faith as his owne lordship preacheth he would not see that the maintenaunce of Gods honour both by liefe landes and goods in the peculiar fructe of that charitable louing faith which the Catholikes doe professe he weyed not well that the great grauntes of Constantinus were made to Syluester Bishop of Rome and not to the maried Byshop of Duresme He remembred not that the like holy workes of the noble kinges of our owne countrie were practised vpon such as wouldâ— professe the trueth and serue the altar and not vpon false pastors that were destroyers of all altars Such honorable portions were parted out for Gods lot and not taken from the worlde to goe to the worldely againe Thinke you any man were so minded to take from his owne wife and children either landes or goods to bestow on priestes babbes or bedfellowes No no God knoweth it was separated from them selues to the sacrifice to the priesthoode to the honour of Gods Church and ministerie The which thinges by your owne preaching my lordes decaide woulde you haue the Prince or peoples deuotion towardes you as is was and woulde be still if you were like your predecessors and serued the altar as they did I wisse if the olde S. Cuthbert Wilfride and William whome they compare in holynesse to horsies so good is their opinion of their holy auncieters had bene of the same religion that the occupiers of their roumes now be all the Prelates in England might haue put their rentes in a halpeny purse Come in againe come in for Christes sake come in to the Church againe serue the altar and then you be wortâ—â— to liue of the altar followe our fathers and you shall be loued as our fathers were confesse that religion which our owne Apostles first taught and we all haue beleued and all the workes of Gods Church protest to be true and then you shall be blessed of God and honoured of men 7 You are a priuileged person as your owne talke doth declare and therefore you may prate what you list if he be a mocke bishoppe which beside his excellent learning is also a painefull and diligent preacher of the Gospell what are those vnlearned Asses and rechlesse ruffians of your secte which haue nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a myter or because I will not charge you with the worst what are they which if they haue some more learning then the rest of which number there are but fewe yet they count it the least part of their office to preach and teach which S. Paule counteth to be chiefe part of a Christian shepeheard ouerseer But to leaue the name come to the matter you mistake that godly mans complaint if you thinke he meaneth of superfluous buyldinges of Synagoges whereof you speake or the vnnecessary enryching of Prelates whereof you meane when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors which through the rauening of your gluttonous Monkes be robbed of their portions And whereas you aunswere it is the fruite of so idle a false faith as his lordship preacheth your mastership lyeth For that fayth which he preacheth is both a true and a working faith which if it were as generally receiued in this land as it is truely preached by him and others the ministers of Gods word could lacke no liuings as God be thanked they neither doe nor can lacke sufficient for necessity among so many of high authority nobility and wealth as doe vnfaynedly professe the Gospell and dayly bring forth the fruites of a true liuely working and onely iustifying fayth The Churches of Fraunce in time of greatest persecution yet haue alwayes liberally susteyned their Pastors And as for the great grauntes that Constantine made to Syluester Byshop of Rome of such as he made in deede he made to married Byshops of Rome as some of them were since Syluester time rather then vnto Syluester the coniurer Hildebrand the hell hounde Iulius the warriar or any that succeeded Boniface the third which beside their abominable life were all heretikes and Antichristes And touching such benefites as were receiued at the handes of princes and noble men of our cuntry if they were ment to be bestowed vpon the professors of the truth and such as serue the aulter of
sacrifice for the deade was instituted by Christ at his last Supper which the holy Ghost afterwarde did secretly suggest vnto the Apostles and they as secretly deliuered to the nations For no worde nor halfe worde therof is conteined in their writings which are to vs the only true testimony of their tradition Thus haue these heretikes no grounde of their heresie but shifte from the worde of scripture to secret tradition from tradition to the meaning of scripture from the plaine meaning of scripture to the vnconstant opinions of men from the variable and contrary opinions of men in times past to their owne obstinacy and continuaunce in error in time present yet he woundreth that we are so blinde that we can not see the cleere light of the trueth If Satan transforming him selfe into an angell of light hath so dasled their eyes that they can not see the true light they are iustly plagued because they haue refused the faithfull testimony of Gods worde which only geueth true light vnto the eyes as the Prophet saith and geuen heede to spirites of errors and doctrines of deuils by whom they are blinded in vtter darkenesse though it be with false imagination and dreaminge of light Yet see the confidence of the man he is suer that if we were examined of our conscience what triall of this doubt we woulde wishe there is none we coulde name but his cause might well abide it Why M. Allen we haue testified of our conscience longe agoe that the onely authority of Gods worde written shall satisfie vs as well in this as in all other matters if you were as desirous to satisfie vs as you pretend and as able to performe as you are to promise we should haue hearde before this time some sentence of scripture to maintaine prayer and sacrifice for the deade not standing vppon voluntary collection but either in plaine wordes or necessary conclusion For there is nothing that we are bounde to knowe nothing that we are bounde to doe but either in expresse wordes or in necessary collection which is as good as expresse wordes it is set forth in the holy Scriptures Beside this you shoulde bring a great preiudice against vs if you coulde bringe the consent and practise of the primitiue pure Church for the space of an hundreth yeares after christ But neither of these doe we looke to see we before see with our eyes the certainety of those thinges whereof now we contend in words and writinges The heretikes of our time and country be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased their contrary communion is compared vvith the olde vsage of Celebration They are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith they are vveary of their ovvne seruice they are kepte in ordre by the vvisedome of the Ciuile magistrates and are forced flatly to refuse all the doctors CAP. XII 1 THe chiefe argument that the Church of God vsed in olde time against Pelagius the enemy of Gods grace was this that at the holy altar the Priest prayed to God for to conuert heretikes and infidells to the faith and euill liuers wicked conuersation to vertue and honesty the which prayers had bene to no purpose if the grace of God had not borne the principall stroke in the chaunging of mans hearte But being assured of this as a grounde that the prayer of the Priest in the whole Churches name at the altar can not but beare singular strength and trueth it is necessarily concluded that seeing the publike minister so prayeth that we must needes beleue that God hath mans hearte in his hande and may turne it to the belefe of his worde or loue of his will as he liketh and listeth notwithstanding the perfect freedome of mans will which by Gods grace is neuer perished but alwayes perfected And in this assured foundation of the publike prayers S. Augustine who then was the souldier of grace so triumphed against one Vitalis a Pelagian that he ringeth him this peale Exerce contra orationes ecclesiae disputationes tuas quaÌ„do audis sacerdotem dei ad altare exhortantem populum dei orare pro incredulis subsanna pias voces ecclesiae dic te non facere quod hortatur homo in Carthagiensi eruditus ecclesia etiam beatissimi Cypriani librum de oratione dominica condemna Holde on fellow exercise thy contentious talke against the vsuall prayers of Gods Church and wheÌ„ thou hearest the Priest of God at his altar exhort the people to praye for the misbeleuers scoffe at the holy wordes and make him aunswere thou wilt not pray as he biddes thee And being brought vp in the Church of Carthage condemne withall S. Cyprians worke vpon our Lordes prayer wherein he teacheth the same I tary nowe the longer on this point that thou mayest learne to kepe an heretike at the bay and to fasten thy stroke so surely vpon him that which waye so euer he shifte he shall beare thy blowe vpon his necke and shoâ—lders It is not for our cause taken in hand that I now so much trauell for that is longe sith made sure enough for all the deuills in Hell or their followers in earth But I woulde in this one example of praying for the deade geue the studious a tast of all such wayes as the trueth of all other pointes in controuersy may be both surely defended and so plainly proued and vpholden that the aduersary shall not be able to say baffe vnto any one of the least of all the groundes wherevpon Gods trueth standeth Handeling then our good men as S. Augustine did the like say to them boldely that the same Church which exhorteth the people to pray for the misbeleuers doth geue vs example to pray for the soules departed Vitalis and Pelagius were heretikes for withstanding the one they must needes be as very heretikes for refusing the other It was the greatest extremitie that Pelagius coulde be driuen to by force of Augustines argument to mocke at the priests prayer made at Gods altar and that which then was so foule an absurditie for those false teachers can it be borne out of ours with honestie Vitalis the Pelagian had a foule foyle by S. Augustine â—hen he charged him with the contempt of S. Cyprians authoritie Byshop of Carthage being him selfe a â—hield of the same Church And shall they goe away so smouthly nowe a dayes not only with contempe of their owne English patrons and Apostles but with impudent deniall of all the doctors at once that euer were gydes of Gods Church sith Christes faith was taught It was of Augustine counted a singular arrogancy not to praye in that forme as Gods Church and ministers at the altar both praye them selues and exhorte other to pray and shall it be such prayse for our preachers to erect a new seruice to be checke mate with the olde to controele the rites and vsages of solemne supplication in all countries Christianed and with the
left out of our seruice which he tormeth like him self prayers and sacrifice for the deade as though he hath not bene often tolde by the example of Gods Church â–ª whereof wâ— haue sure warrant out of Gods word by example of the eldest Church and nearest to the Apostles tymes as we haue shewed out of Iustinus Martyr and Tertullian before he became an heretike And as for him that affirmed the old Liturgies to make against your masse though he be better able to aunswere for him selfe yet haue I shewed also that there are none so full of blasphemy as your masse is And it is easie to be gathered by Epiphanius that the olde forme of liturgie was but to make mention of the deade to haue them in remembraunce And because they vsed to make memory of all sortes of men that were deade in Christ he expoundeth it according to the errour of his time that this memory was a prayer for the sinners for the iust as Patriarkes Prophets c. a signification that they were inferior to christ A simple cause why they should be remembred but this shift he is driuen vnto because he did not coÌ„sider that the memory and oblation which the olde fathers made for all departed in Christ was a sacrifice of thankes giuing and not of prayers for them The same order errour doe all the later liturgies follow making memory prayers for all them that are departed in the faith In the memory of all departed they follow the olde order in praying for all they follow the latter error which had chaunged the sacrifice of thankes giuing into the sacrifice of prayer But herein they declared that they had not yet generally receiued your newe doctrine of purgatory because they prayed not as you doe for them onely that are in purgatory to whom onely you confesse the prayers to be needefull and profitable but for all that are departed in the fayth of Christ from the beginning of the worlde And now Syr I haue shewed wherein they make against you But where as you taunt at the author of that booke because he setteth not his name vnto it you shew your witte bewray your disease You can neither tell what to speak nor yet how to hold your peace In the margent you gesse it was M. Pilkington of Duresme you would faine haue such a man to be your aduersary that though you tooke the foyle yâ—t you might boast that you were so bold as to fight with him But it is an easyer matter for such a desperate dicke to beginning a fraye then to ende it If I may be as bolde to gesse as you I gesse that he which made that lusty chalenge of the Papist against the Protestant promising to recant at the ende of euery article if he colde be aunswered was such a tryed Thraso as M. Allen if you aske me what is the grounde of my gesse to omit the stile somewhat like I will aunswere as one in Plautus doth Credo te esse ab illo nam ita nugas blattis I take it to be euen you you are so full of bracing and facing But who so euer he was was he ashamed of his name because he set not his name vnto it and was the man of Chester ashamed of his name because he setteth it not to his treatise Finally be all those Papistes ashamed of their names which haue written so many petty pamphlettes to be caried abrode in Popish fellowes pocketts O intemperate tonge which can not spare such tauntes as redounde to him selfe and his owne good maisters reproch Your lyes of offering worshipping and praying to the hoste be reproued alredy you say we might with more honesty haue coped for one of those Lyturgies if we liked not Gregories Masse rather then to haue forged a new I aunswere we haue with more honesty reformed our Lyturgie according to the worde of God and example of the oldest Church then Gregory Basill Chrysostome if they were theirs or who so euer were authors of those Liturgies did leaue the auncient Lyturgies that were vsed in the Church before their time because they did not sufficiently expresse their errors and superstition and forge them newe of their owne contrary to the worde of god And where as you prate of the Latine Church and the East parte we neither refuse the Latine Church while it was pure nor receiue the East Church where in it was corrupt but the scripture is a rule vnto vs to iudge all Churches by Although it were easy to proue by that coÌ„trouersie which the Britaynes and the Scottes had against the Saxons about the celebration of Easter that our countrie first receiued their conuersion from the East Church whose ceremonie they did then defend euen as the East Church did longe before against Victor Bishoppe of Rome By which it appeareth that this lande did neuer receiue the doctrine and ceremonies of the Latine Church before the time of the Saxons And whereas you slaunder vs for referringe our faith to an vncertaine and vnknowen Origine the contrary is manifest when we referre it to no iudgement or company of men but to the authoritie of Gods worde and all them that will be subiect therevnto But I tarye to longe in these trifles 3. Euery man in the primitiue Church counted the spring of his faith more pure and a great deale more cleare if he coulde against an heretike declare by good testimony that his belefe did at length by iust counte fall into the Romane Church So doth Irenaeus against the Valentinians so doth Cyprian against the Nouatians so doth Tertullian and Vincentius against all heretikes so doth Augustine and Optatus against the Donatistes so doth Hyerom and all the reste against the Arians All these thought they had a great vauntage if they could by plaine accompt proue against an heretike that their doctrine ishued from the Byshop of Rome Goe whether thou wilt saith Tertulian and thou shalt finde some Apostolike seat to instruct thy conscience thou hast harde by the Philippos or Ephesus or Rome and there loe fetch we the authority of our faith S. Augustine that knewe best how to fetche an heretike ouer the coles vrgeth him euer to reduce his doctrine to some Bishop of Rome when he had him once at that strait then loe he goeth through the whole ranke of holy Byshoppes by name to the nomber of fourty well neare Bring me once an euident declaration that your faith ishued from any one byshop of that Sea and then you may passe throw the longe line of that succession with out bracke or any rupture in the worlde I coulde make accompt sayth Irenaeus of many successions of Apostolike Churches but that were to longe only Rome shall serue that is the greatest the auncientest and best knowen and by the tradition of that Church confundimus omnes eos we vtterly confounde all heretikes It is a straunge thinge that the fathers hauing store of Apostolike
they might in heate of contention and heresie casely drie vp the whole ishue therof And this earnest consideration causeth many at this daye to forsake their heresies and to be a greate deale mo at this time which know the trueth of this matter then when they beganne first to preach thereof 4 Bring this mans faith to Gregory then the streame shall driue him to Peter and Paule Nay M. Allen bring you your faith from Peter and Paule by good testimony of their holy writings and then you shall not neede to rowe in Cockelaurels bote neither with streame nor against it But you offer vs fayre play we must bring you one Bishop of Rome that did set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteyne and you will seeke a newe mother Church If I should bring you Sabinianus which controlled the decrees of Gregory or Stephanus that condemned the decrees of Formosus from which time the story testifieth that it grewe vnto a custome that euery Bishop would coÌ„demne his predecessors decrees you woulde aunswere that all this was without your compasse So will you say if I name Honorius who was an heretike of the sect of the Monothelites condemned both by his successor and by a generall councell I bring no small proofes M. Allen but such as you can not with for greater Looke in the sixt generall councell holden at Constantinople Acti 13. there shall you reade that the decretall epistle of Honorius whereby he confirmed Sergius in his heresie was redde and burned Honorius him selfe anathematized as an heretike Loke a litle further vnto the 18. action there shall you find the decretall epistle of Pope Leo the second written to the councell wherein he condemneth Honorius his predecessor for an heretike and his doctrine for heresie But what say you to Liberius Felix whereof eyther one or as Ieronym affirmeth both were Arians how were their decrees liked of their successors how did they allowe the decrees of their predecessors Finally where as you say that our earnest often preaching against the Pope hath wonne you so many Catholikes we will by Gods grace continue to gratifie you still by that meanes and geue you good leaue when you haue counted your cardes to boast of your winnings 5 But I will not presse them ouer sore suppose I graunt them that which they would so gladly winne that we had not our faith first from Rome though it be as false as God is true But suppose it were not so and I geue you leaue to father your faith where you will. If it be not vpon Latimer whome a foolish fellowe in the booke of conference betwixt Latimer and Ridley termeth the English Apostle as one more worthy of that name as he sayth then Augustine but else where you will and when you haue done proue me that your mother Church prayeth not for the departed in her Masse and solemne seruice and you shall be exalted vp for euer And at your next chaunge frame your newe communion after that olde vsage on Gods blessinge If you can finde any forme of celebration farre enough from ours followe it and spare not But I am sure you shall neuer be hable to finde any olde seruice in the worlde fit for your newe diet They be all to much like our Masse for your purpose as in deede alone in euery pointe of importance with ours As the Churches to whome they belonged perfectly before their decay in faith and vnity agreed with ours 5 Although we account Latimer for a worthy teacher and more worthy of the name of an Apostle for his apostolike doctrine then Augustine the Monke yet builde we our faith as you know neither vpon him nor any other but onely vpon the word of god And as for our mother Church is no certayne place or company of men in any one place vpon earth but Ierusalem which is aboue is mother of vs all Galat. 4. And who so euer were children of this Church would neuer find fault with our communion which can not be condemned by the worde of God and therefore careth not for the comparison of the custome of other men which whether they vsed the like or not in forme of wordes which is not materiall so they vsed not other substance of matter except they did it beside the word of god How like your Masse is to other couÌ„try masses when there was neuer any masse but yours I leaue it to consider and compare to all them that had rather see the truth them selues then to be deceiued by you 6 I am sure when you can not like your owne communion ye woulde not be pleaced with one of an others making But an other you must needes haue and further you must go from vs walke forwarde you will to the extreme ende of heresie and vtter denying of Christianity All the world can not stoppe your falling from the hill of Gods Church till you come in the bottomlesse pit of Hell. I woulde be loth to sclaunder them with the brute of the worlde which though it be in euery mans mouth that they like not this communion yes vpon that rumour I would not haue sayd so farre but that they haue vttered their owne meaning in a treatise of their owne making in these wordes In mariage as in all other thingeâ— beside we are but to much like vnto them that is our â—ault generally that we differ not more from them in all our ministerie These wordes vtter their griefe that they can got no further from vs in their seruice and that you be not deceiued the author of this booke where this complainte is made knoweth well the meaning of his fellowes herein and how gladde they woulde be shiftinge forwarde They sit on thornes till they be doing with a newe gise It is no worse man then the B. of Duresme that taketh colde in so longe a stand of their communion My simple head coulde not deuise how they might possibly go forwarde and kepe them with in any bonde of Christianity VVhat they caste in their braine for their further proceding I can not tell the serpent is suttel and our sinnes be greate 6 If any man mislike the forme of our seruice as not differing sufficiently from yours he sheweth his greater zeale in detestation of your idolatry and blasphemy In the meane time what neede this great wondring for once or twise alteration in the forme where the matter is still reteyned when if we shall beleue your owne stories your seruice hath not had much lesse then an hundreth innouations so often as one peece or other was added or patched to it And yet in this one cuntry of England howe many diuerse formes of seruice had you so that you could neuer grow to vniformitie Yorke Salesbury Bangor Hereford c. 7 I much maruaill not nowe to see the temporall Magistrates of their wisedomes to hedge these mens
obscuro non ad propheticas voces non ad apostolicas literas nec ad euangelicas auctoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt They fall into this folly which when they be hindered by any obscuritie to knowe the truth haue not recourse to the words of the Prophets nor to the writings of the Apostles nor to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues But therefore are they maisters of error because they haue not ben schollers of truth In these words Leo as great as you would haue him maketh the Scriptures not customes or traditioÌ„s the rule of truth But I will come to your demonstration which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine yet vnder correction of your demonstratiue Logike I may be bold to say it is not the proper way nor the way by which all doctrine may be tryed and so you breake 2. of those principal rules that Aristotle giueth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by coÌ„ferring it with the word of God Againe the first author of euery heresie can not be named There was one heresie of them that were called Acephali because there was no head knowne of them It is harde to name the first authour of the Manichees whom the heretikes them selues call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes the Ophâ—tes the Caineanes the Sethoites the Adamianes the Melchezedâ—chianes the Apostolike the Hemerobaptistes and an hundred more heresies shall they be thought to haue their heresie from tradition of the Apostles if the first author of them can not be named yet I weene it will be hard for him to proue out of any authenticall writer that any before Tertullian either named or allowed prayer for the deade who was almost 2. hundreth yeares after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answere me that this vsage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time though the first author can not be knowen I will also prouide that there no shift shall serue them Therefore I aske them whether that man which first preached it was resisted by the rest of Gods Church which before his preaching beleued the contrarie or no That is it say this doctrine of praying for the deade when it first came into the church did any of the true pastors free from the same error barke like a good shepheard against the beginner of that which they count so great a corruption of trueth Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one daye say what you thinke likest in this case aunswere with any probability or reason if you can saye plainely was our doctrine euer preaâ—hed against or neuer if it neuer were preached against then it neuer beganne as any noueltie or newe doctrine For it coulde not be that the Church being free from that doctrine shoulde straight without contradiction allowe that which they liked not before Howe can any man arise in the common welth and bring the vtter decay of all the olde ordres which he findeth and erect vp a new deuise of his owne and neuer man speake a word against him but all in one moment allow and like the same and that without all recorde by memory or monument of any chaunge But this thinge is most farre from the Churches and Gods pastors diligeÌ„ce that neuer receiued false doctrine without open contradiction and plaine noting the party that first began it as we shal plucke our gentlemen by the slieue a none All those that haue any skill in the antiquitie will beare me recorde that the pastors did neuer holde their peace when any wolfe did but once open his mouth against the sheepe They can tell that she did neuer beare the preaching or practise of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together then it must needes consequently followe that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations receiued in the Catholike Church had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God but hath ioyned from the first grounde of our Christian institution in Christes faith with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith Thus I make my argument euery falsehood was preached against and withstanded when it is first entered but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the deade being alwayes vsed was neuer controwled nor gainsaide in Gods Church therfore it is no falsehood nor euer had any later institution then the Apostles owne prescription 2 Supposing that this errour crept into the Church though the first author thereof can not be knowne he demaundeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be receiued I aunswere if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the vttermost it could not so easily haue preuayled And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that tyme opposed them selues against it although the history of the Church in that time whâ—n it began to be spreade is to briefe vnperfect that we should be able to name who they were that preached against it Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time it were hard to require and vnpossible to shew who preached against euery one of them at their first entrance yet they be damnable heresies In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth vnto vs who preached or writte against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome al the church as he confessed did hold that infants must receiue the holy communion or else they should be damned Who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day If euery heresie had bene beaten down as fast as it sprang Antichrist should neuer haue set vp his throne in the temple of god If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error that they which refused to beleue the truth should be iustly condemned to beleue lyes the man of sinne and sonne of perdition had neuer aduauÌ„ced him selfe aboue all that is called God. 2. Thessal 2. And therefore M. Allen plucke not vs by the sleue but your self by the nose you are the heretikes that refuse to beleue the truth you are they that turne away your eares from truth to fables you are they that attend to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills forbidding to marry and abstayning from meates which God hath created to be receiued with thankes giuing There is the brande marke of Romish religion that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea shal not be able to wash out Must we finde out the authors of your heresies Nay iustifie
many notable fathers as Augustine and other But especially for the approuing of our faith and condemnation of the aduersaries part the whole processe of the great Councell of Florence must be noted for there the question of purgatory and prayers for the deade was fully handeled by the most learned of both the Latine and Greeke Church the Patriarche of Constantinople him selfe with the Legats of Armenia and other nations of that parte being present and fully condescending with the Romane Church vpon the trueth of purgatory and other graue mysteries into the doubt of which that part of the Church by schisme miscredit of their forefathers had fallen into not loÌ„g before and so made perfect protestation of their faith with the abiuring of the contrary as heresie But omitting that longe processe and large treatie of the matter for the establishing of euery mans conscience I wil conclude vp all the matter with the Councell and the holy Ghosts determination of all the whole cause in these wordes Si verè poenitentes in Dei charitate decesserint antequam dignis poenitentiae fructibus de commissis satisfecerint omissis eorum animas poenis purgatorijs purgari vt à poenis huiusmodi releuentur prodesse eis viuorum fidelium suffragia missaruÌ„ scilicet sacrificia orationes eleemosynas alia pietatis officia quae a fidelibus pro alijs fidelibus fieri consueuerunt secundum ecclesiae instituta VVe define and determine that true penitents departing in the fauour of God before they satisfied for their negligencies or faultes committed by worthy fructes of penaunce shall be clensed by purgatory paines and likewise for the release thereof the prayers of the faithfull the sacrifice of the blessed Masse and almes with other thinges customably practised by the faithfull for their freindes decessed according to the ordinaunce of Gods Church to be profitable CAP. XV. 1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient that we knowe God in his holy worde to be the first founder of our doctrine and therefore that they lye blasphemously which woulde make any heretike the author of it And as for the authority of Councels that is alleaged against vs we haue shewed before that the decrees of 95. Can. of Car. the forth and second of Vase are flatly falsified which speake not at all of oblations for the deade but oblations of the deade that is such mony as the departed haue bequethed to the vse of the poore The 79. Can. of the forth Councell of Carthage decreed that if penitents dyed before absolution they shoulde haue their memory commended with prayers and oblations The Bracarense decree Can. 39. prescribeth how the mony offered at such commemoration of the deade shoulde be distributed The 34. Can. of the same Councell wherevnto he pointeth vs in this place decreeth that for them that kill them selues no commemoration shoulde be made nor that they shoulde be buried with Psalmes But wherefore trowe you did he omit the next Canon to it which decreeth that neither the commemoration of the holy oblation nor the office of singing Psalmes should be bestowed vpon them that were cathechised and dyed before they were baptised Either he sawe not the booke him selfe or else he misliked that phrase the commemoration of the holy oblation wherby the Bishoppes of that Councell expound what they meane when they named the holy communion to be a sacrifice That is they did not take it to be so properly but onely a commemoration of the holy sacrifice of christ As also when we reade in the olde writers or councells oblation for the deade we must not alwayes vnderstand the celebration of the communion as the Papastes imagine but that monye which first was offered for almes and afterwards superstitiously was taken to be a kind of redemption for their sinnes As in the 11. Councell of Toledo cap. 12. is declared where they decree of such penitents as dyed before reconciliation Placuit nobis vt memoria talium in ecclesâ—s commendetur oblatio pro eorum delicto a presbyteris recipiatur It pleaseth vs say the Bishops of that Synode that the memory of such maye be commended in the Churches and the oblation for their offence maye be taken by the priestes This office that was bestowed vppon the deade which so generally of the olde writers and councells is called a memorye vndoubtedly tooke the name of that which it first was Namely nothing but a memory with thankes giuing which after was corrupted to a prayer for them Lykewise the oblation as Origen testifieth at the first was nothing but almes to the releife of the poore for ioy of the rest of them that were departed and for comfort and godly exercise of them that were a liue But afterwarde it grew to be compted a redemption for the sinnes of the departed and the name of oblation was drawen further to the celebration of the communion and to be compted a sacrifice for the quicke and the deade But before this Councell there was an other Synode helde in Spayne at Toledo called Toletan 3. cap. 21. Where it was decreed that they which by Gods calling departed out of this life shoulde be caâ—yed to their graues onely with singing of Psalmes Forbidding that funerall song which was wonte to be song to the deade and all other vnseemely gestures of morning If you saye this doth not exclude prayers and oblations they adde that it must be thought sufficient for the buriall of Christian mens bodyes that the office of singing of godly Psalmes is bestowed in hope of the resurrection And so throughout the Canon they woulde haue men comforted by the hope of the resurrection affirming that Christian mens bodyes throughout the worlde ought to be no otherwise buried As for the decree of the Councell of Florence is but a meere mockerie For it was helde not past seuen score yeares a goe when at the same time there was an other Councell holden at Basill against it in which the Pope Engenius the fourth who gathered that mocke Coâ—ncell of Ferraria and Florentia was deposed and an other Pope chosen against him So there was one Pope and his councell in Italy and an other Pope with his councell in Germanie Goodly gawdes for fooles to playe with all As for the holy councel which was helde the other day at Trent you did well to put in the margent for it was not worthy to come in the texte If the determination of that councell be so holy why do you Papistes daily breake a nombre of canons decreed therein which conteins scarse a-shadow of reformation But you can dispense with councells as you liste To omit all other canons why doe not your bishoppes and parish priests as often as they minister the sacraments to the people declare the effect of them to such as receiue them in the mother tongue Session 8. c. 7. 2 The which graue determination if any man be so willfull to contemne Let him