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church_n bishop_n council_n deacon_n 2,770 5 10.3360 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A87432 A Judicious vievv of the businesses which are at this time between France and the house of Austria. Most usefull, to know the present posture of the affairs of all Christendom. / Translated out of French, by a person of honour. Person of honour. 1657 (1657) Wing J1187; Thomason E1598_2; ESTC R208868 100,087 241

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also_o their_o place_n of_o honour_n and_o at_o the_o mass_n that_o honour_n be_v see_v by_o the_o place_n where_o they_o sit_v by_o the_o censer_n and_o by_o the_o pax_n which_o be_v give_v they_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o mass_n now_o whereas_o this_o council_n be_v hold_v at_o three_o several_a time_n under_o there_o several_a pope_n paul_n the_o iii_o juliet_n the_o iii_o and_o pius_n the_o iv_o in_o the_o time_n of_o paul_n and_o juliet_n charles_n the_o v._o be_v emperor_n who_o ambassador_n without_o contradiction_n sit_v above_o the_o french_a ambassador_n who_o in_o the_o sixteen_o first_o seffion_n appear_v very_o little_a and_o no_o place_n be_v hold_v there_o under_o the_o title_n of_o spain_n yet_o some_o thing_n happen_v then_o which_o show_v the_o eminency_n of_o the_o french_a king_n above_o all_o other_o next_o to_o the_o emperor_n in_o the_o bull_n of_o the_o indiction_n of_o the_o council_n paul_n the_o iii_o date_v a_o 1542._o the_o king_n of_o france_n be_v 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to_o a_o true_a and_o free_a council_n and_o that_o his_o master_n will_v celebrate_v a_o nationall_n council_n as_o numerous_a and_o as_o general_n at_o that_o of_o trent_n it_o be_v certain_a that_o ferrier_n &_o pibrac_n for_o lansac_n be_v return_v into_o france_n have_v prepare_v a_o most_o bloody_a speech_n against_o the_o pope_n and_o against_o that_o innovation_n ferrier_n be_v to_o pronounce_v it_o and_o at_o the_o same_o time_n command_v all_o the_o french_a bishop_n and_o doctor_n to_o leave_v the_o council_n with_o a_o promise_n to_o return_v whensoever_o god_n have_v give_v a_o lawful_a pope_n to_o his_o church_n and_o restore_v to_o the_o counsel_n their_o ancient_a and_o full_a liberty_n the_o speech_n be_v print_v but_o not_o pronounce_v ferrier_n spread_v it_o among_o the_o father_n because_o count_n de_fw-fr luna_n boast_v that_o the_o legate_n have_v promise_v he_o that_o at_o the_o first_o mass_n he_o shall_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o equality_n of_o the_o pax_n and_o 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in_o some_o other_o place_n out_o of_o the_o bench_n of_o the_o ambassador_n to_o which_o the_o french_a answer_v that_o they_o be_v send_v by_o their_o king_n not_o to_o judge_v cause_n or_o to_o decide_v of_o the_o right_n of_o king_n philip_n who_o be_v a_o good_a friend_n &_o brother_n in_o law_n to_o their_o king_n charles_n the_o ix_o but_o if_o any_o will_v take_v their_o place_n they_o be_v resolve_v to_o stand_v for_o it_o against_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n which_o if_o the_o council_n deny_v they_o they_o have_v order_n to_o withdraw_v with_o all_o the_o french_a prelate_n and_o to_o protest_v of_o the_o nullity_n of_o the_o resolution_n which_o shall_v be_v take_v in_o their_o absence_n to_o which_o the_o legate_n answer_v nothing_o that_o declaration_n of_o the_o french_a though_o generous_a give_v occasion_n to_o the_o affront_n which_o soon_o after_o be_v offer_v to_o they_o in_o the_o council_n for_o they_o be_v censure_v by_o posterity_n for_o not_o require_v absolute_o that_o the_o spaniard_n shall_v sit_v under_o they_o an._n 1563._o the_o legate_n fear_v some_o division_n between_o the_o french_a and_o spanish_a doctor_n about_o their_o order_n in_o speak_v give_v order_n that_o without_o distinction_n of_o nation_n every_o one_o shall_v speak_v according_a to_o his_o seniority_n of_o doctorship_n but_o because_o some_o among_o the_o french_a divine_n have_v the_o seniority_n over_o the_o spanish_a these_o make_v great_a complaint_n to_o the_o legate_n pretend_v that_o this_o preference_n of_o the_o french_a will_v be_v a_o prejudice_n against_o the_o dispute_n which_o the_o count_n de_fw-fr luna_n be_v form_v against_o the_o french_a ambassador_n the_o legate_n rebuke_v they_o show_v that_o the_o doctor_n though_o send_v by_o the_o prince_n do_v not_o represent_v their_o person_n as_o the_o ambassador_n do_v and_o that_o the_o question_n be_v only_o of_o the_o seniority_n of_o the_o degree_n not_o of_o the_o preference_n of_o the_o nation_n notwithstanding_o these_o satisfactory_a reason_n the_o spaniard_n be_v angry_a and_o threaten_v the_o council_n of_o their_o king_n displeasure_n who_o shall_v take_v off_o his_o protection_n from_o they_o the_o french_a see_v that_o the_o spaniard_n stand_v upon_o point_n in_o such_o a_o clear_a business_n and_o that_o of_o doctor_n they_o will_v make_v ambassador_n do_v obstinate_a themselves_o also_o to_o have_v the_o preference_n even_o in_o the_o dispute_v of_o the_o divine_n and_o because_o the_o pope_n delegate_n speak_v first_o without_o contradiction_n the_o french_a ask_v to_o be_v admit_v to_o speak_v next_o after_o they_o which_o the_o legate_n be_v constrain_v to_o grant_v and_o it_o be_v decree_v that_o after_o the_o jesuit_n salmeron_n the_o pope_n divine_a nicolas_n maillart_n dean_n of_o the_o faculty_n of_o paris_n shall_v speak_v and_o that_o after_o that_o all_o shall_v speak_v according_a to_o the_o seniority_n of_o their_o degree_n which_o be_v follow_v yet_o to_o content_v the_o spaniard_n it_o be_v enact_v in_o the_o register_n of_o the_o council_n that_o the_o french_a doctor_n have_v speak_v the_o first_o by_o the_o right_n of_o his_o seniority_n in_o the_o degree_n of_o doctor_n not_o by_o the_o preference_n of_o his_o nation_n the_o same_o year_n 1563._o upon_o easter-day_n the_o count_n of_o luna_n be_v receive_v at_o trent_n and_o in_o his_o entry_n mach_v between_o the_o ambassador_n of_o the_o emperor_n and_o of_o france_n this_o ceremony_n pass_v with_o much_o honour_n and_o civility_n between_o the_o two_o nation_n and_o at_o the_o same_o time_n the_o cardinal_n of_o lorraine_n write_v to_o the_o emperor_n perour_n ferdinand_n who_o be_v at_o insprugh_n in_o the_o county_n of_o tirol_n three_o day_n journey_n from_o trent_n upon_o divers_a affair_n of_o the_o council_n and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o letter_n desire_v he_o to_o find_v some_o temper_n to_o lay_v down_o the_o dispute_n about_o the_o preference_n between_o the_o two_o crown_n so_o that_o it_o may_v not_o appear_v in_o the_o council_n but_o his_o countryman_n blame_v he_o for_o it_o say_v that_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v take_v notice_n of_o a_o dispute_n so_o ill_o ground_v or_o if_o he_o have_v speak_v of_o it_o it_o shall_v not_o have_v be_v to_o have_v desire_v a_o temper_n but_o to_o maintain_v his_o king_n right_a the_o emperor_n answer_v he_o that_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o he_o to_o decide_v the_o dispute_n between_o the_o king_n of_o france_n and_o spain_n but_o since_o he_o have_v desire_v he_o to_o speak_v his_o sense_n about_o it_o if_o your_o ambassador_n say_v he_o maintain_v their_o rank_n after_o i_o and_o that_o none_o take_v that_o place_n from_o they_o what_o do_v it_o import_v you_o what_o place_n be_v assign_v unto_o the_o spaniard_n a_o verdict_n ill_o take_v by_o the_o french_a who_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v of_o a_o dangerous_a consequence_n for_o in_o a_o order_n of_o sit_v who_o so_o leave_v his_o place_n say_v they_o be_v think_v to_o despise_v it_o and_o to_o ask_v a_o high_a which_o can_v be_v do_v without_o move_v a_o dispute_n against_o those_o that_o sit_v in_o a_o high_a seat_n the_o count_n of_o luna_n after_o that_o solemn_a entry_n be_v hide_v forty_o day_n and_o appear_v not_o in_o any_o ceremony_n of_o public_a action_n be_v in_o great_a perplexity_n how_o to_o behave_v himself_o sometime_o he_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o enter_v into_o the_o assembly_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o two_o ambassador_n of_o the_o emperor_n who_o be_v enjoin_v to_o bear_v he_o company_n and_o after_o they_o have_v take_v their_o place_n stand_v by_o they_o till_o his_o commission_n have_v be_v verify_v by_o the_o council_n and_o then_o retire_v to_o his_o house_n but_o consider_v that_o this_o will_v not_o be_v a_o generous_a maintain_n of_o his_o master_n honour_n he_o make_v mean_n that_o the_o french_a ambassador_n shall_v be_v desire_v not_o to_o appear_v in_o the_o assemby_n that_o day_n which_o be_v deny_v he_o he_o send_v some_o spanish_a bishop_n to_o the_o legate_n to_o propound_v unto_o they_o that_o the_o secular_a ambassador_n of_o prince_n shall_v not_o enter_v into_o the_o general_a congregation_n but_o the_o day_n of_o their_o reception_n but_o shall_v content_v themselves_o to_o be_v present_a at_o the_o ceremony_n the_o day_n of_o the_o session_n maintain_v that_o it_o have_v be_v so_o observe_v in_o the_o counsel_n before_o but_o all_o the_o ambassador_n of_o prince_n have_v oppose_v that_o motion_n he_o can_v obtain_v nothing_o again_o he_o cause_v some_o bishop_n to_o propound_v some_o point_n to_o the_o congregation_n at_o the_o discussion_n whereof_o the_o french_a ought_v not_o to_o be_v present_a as_o interest_v party_n for_o example_n to_o represent_v what_o damage_n will_v result_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n by_o a_o peace_n of_o the_o king_n of_o france_n with_o the_o hugonot_n or_o some_o such_o thing_n but_o all_o that_o be_v reject_v and_o the_o congregation_n be_v put_v off_o from_o day_n to_o day_n by_o his_o obstinacy_n in_o the_o end_n that_o the_o business_n of_o the_o council_n may_v not_o be_v retard_v the_o cardinal_n of_o lorraine_n and_o the_o french_a ambassador_n declare_v to_o the_o legate_n that_o if_o they_o may_v keep_v their_o place_n immediate_o after_o the_o emperor_n ambassador_n they_o do_v not_o care_n what_o place_n the_o ambassador_n of_o spain_n shall_v take_v the_o french_a to_o this_o day_n exclaim_v against_o that_o action_n of_o the_o cardinal_n and_o the_o french_a ambassador_n say_v that_o it_o be_v a_o great_a weakness_n and_o that_o they_o have_v betray_v their_o master_n honour_n yea_o the_o father_n of_o the_o council_n dislike_v it_o and_o when_o the_o cardinal_n de_fw-fr la_fw-fr bourdestere_fw-la resident_n for_o the_o king_n of_o france_n by_o the_o pope_n complain_v to_o he_o of_o that_o spanish_a ambition_n and_o novelty_n introduce_v against_o all_o ancient_a order_n the_o pope_n it_o be_v pius_n the_o iv_o answer_v that_o he_o shall_v complain_v to_o the_o french_a ambassador_n who_o weakness_n he_o condemn_v say_v that_o although_o he_o have_v be_v solicit_v before_o and_o after_o the_o entry_n of_o count_n de_fw-fr luna_n into_o trent_n to_o favour_v that_o design_n he_o have_v remain_v constant_a and_o inflexible_a and_o that_o he_o wonder_v how_o the_o french_a have_v so_o easy_o yea_o so_o free_o yield_v the_o day_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v come_v and_o each_o ambassador_n have_v take_v his_o place_n the_o count_n of_o luna_n enter_v stand_v over_o against_o the_o legate_n some_o what_o far_o from_o the_o ambassador_n seat_n present_v his_o order_n and_o declare_v his_o master_n will_n then_o he_o protest_v that_o although_o the_o first_o seat_n be_v due_a to_o he_o next_o to_o the_o imperial_a ambassador_n as_o represent_v the_o great_a prince_n of_o christendom_n
the_o french_a in_o that_o council_n hinder_v the_o publication_n of_o it_o in_o france_n short_o after_o the_o cardinal_n of_o lorraine_n retire_v to_o rome_n and_o ferrier_n declaim_v in_o a_o general_a congregation_n against_o abuse_n and_o disorder_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n and_o spare_v no_o body_n the_o pope_n be_v much_o displease_v at_o it_o and_o to_o allay_v that_o heat_n send_v the_o cardinal_n of_o lorraine_n to_o rome_n with_o full_a authority_n to_o regulate_v all_o with_o the_o legate_n he_o be_v present_a at_o the_o 24_o session_n hold_v november_n 11._o 1563._o which_o be_v of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o marriage_n and_o have_v receive_v order_n from_o france_n to_o return_v without_o delay_n with_o all_o the_o french_a bishop_n the_o legate_n haste_v to_o make_v a_o end_n of_o the_o council_n and_o hold_v the_o 25_o session_n which_o be_v the_o last_o upon_o the_o 3d._n and_o four_o of_o december_n in_o which_o session_n as_o in_o the_o precedent_n the_o ambassador_n keep_v their_o place_n luna_n sit_v by_o the_o secretary_n of_o the_o council_n in_o the_o public_a mass_n neither_o pax_n nor_o censer_n be_v use_v so_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n end_v the_o four_o of_o decem._n 15_o 63._o &_o the_o cardinal_n moron_n at_o that_o time_n the_o first_o precedent_n give_v his_o blessing_n to_o the_o father_n tell_v they_o post_n gratias_fw-la deo_fw-la actas_fw-la reverendissimi_fw-la patres_fw-la item_fw-la in_o pace_n and_o all_o answer_v amen_n but_o because_o it_o be_v the_o custom_n at_o the_o end_n of_o the_o council_n to_o make_v acclamation_n to_o bless_v the_o pope_n that_o have_v assemble_v it_o the_o father_n that_o have_v hold_v it_o and_o the_o prince_n that_o have_v assist_v it_o and_o protect_v the_o church_n the_o cardinal_n of_o lorraine_n take_v himself_o the_o care_n to_o make_v they_o and_o to_o pronounce_v they_o also_o which_o he_o be_v blame_v for_o as_o take_v upon_o he_o that_o care_v which_o less_o become_a his_o eminency_n and_o more_o fit_v for_o deacon_n promotor_n secretary_n and_o master_n of_o ceremony_n especial_o he_o be_v blame_v because_o in_o the_o acclamation_n make_v for_o the_o secular_a prince_n he_o forget_v to_o name_v express_o the_o king_n of_o france_n which_o have_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o bull_n of_o the_o indiction_n as_o we_o say_v before_o and_o the_o omission_n whereof_o in_o the_o call_n again_o of_o the_o council_n by_o pius_n the_o iv_o have_v cause_v so_o much_o discontent_n and_o expostulation_n of_o this_o the_o cardinal_n can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a nor_o pretend_v forgetfulness_n since_o those_o acclamation_n be_v meditate_a and_o write_v down_o there_o be_v two_o acclamation_n the_o first_o for_o the_o memory_n of_o the_o dead_a in_o which_o the_o cardinal_n forget_v to_o express_v the_o name_n of_o francis_n the_o i._o and_o henry_n the_o two_o who_o have_v contribute_v their_o care_n and_o their_o zeal_n for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o council_n the_o second_o be_v for_o the_o prince_n live_v where_o he_o forget_v charles_n the_o ix_o who_o have_v send_v his_o ambassador_n &_o his_o bishop_n to_o trent_n so_o he_o forget_v both_o the_o dead_a and_o the_o live_n that_o omission_n be_v object_v to_o the_o cardinal_n in_o the_o king_n council_n he_o excuse_v himself_o upon_o the_o fear_n he_o have_v to_o make_v a_o division_n between_o the_o two_o crown_n king_n charles_n be_v yet_o in_o minority_n in_o danger_n of_o a_o civil_a war_n and_o of_o the_o disorder_n which_o germany_n be_v fall_v into_o upon_o the_o quarrel_n of_o religion_n whereby_o the_o king_n may_v have_v need_n of_o philip_n who_o therefore_o he_o will_v not_o provoke_v or_o incense_v against_o france_n thus_o that_o weakness_n which_o the_o cardinal_n and_o the_o french_a ambassador_n show_v in_o the_o congregation_n session_n and_o acclamation_n have_v not_o with_o vigour_n enough_o defend_v the_o right_n of_o their_o master_n be_v defend_v by_o they_o with_o plausible_a reason_n but_o in_o effect_n they_o open_v the_o gate_n to_o the_o pretence_n which_o the_o spaniard_n form_n at_o every_o meeting_n of_o public_a assembly_n procession_n and_o ceremony_n against_o the_o french_a ambassador_n who_o hitherto_o have_v stout_o defend_v their_o right_n at_o least_o they_o have_v keep_v the_o two_o essential_a point_n of_o precedence_n which_o be_v first_o never_o to_o have_v leave_v their_o place_n either_o second_o when_o the_o ambassador_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o emperor_n be_v present_a or_o first_o when_o they_o be_v absent_a the_o other_o never_o to_o have_v suffer_v or_o do_v any_o action_n which_o may_v be_v interpret_v to_o give_v a_o equality_n to_o the_o spaniard_n with_o they_o as_o for_o the_o order_n of_o sit_v which_o shall_v oblige_v the_o spaniard_n to_o sit_v under_o the_o french_a one_o can_v not_o take_v he_o by_o the_o hand_n to_o bring_v he_o to_o a_o assembly_n when_o he_o pretend_v sickness_n or_o business_n but_o if_o he_o appear_v in_o a_o public_a meeting_n the_o french_a suffer_v he_o not_o to_o use_v any_o action_n either_o of_o preference_n or_o equality_n since_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n the_o most_o famous_a meeting_n of_o the_o two_o king_n in_o the_o person_n of_o their_o ambassador_n or_o rather_o the_o only_a be_v that_o of_o veruins_n a_o 1598._o where_o the_o french_a have_v the_o precedence_n as_o we_o show_v before_o finis_fw-la