Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	bishop_n	consent_n	presbyter_n	2,792	5	10.0660	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78437	Vindiciæ clavium: or, A vindication of the keyes of the kingdome of Heaven, into the hands of the right owners. Being some animadversions upon a tract of Mr. I.C. called, The keyes of the kingdome of Heaven. As also upon another tract of his, called, The way of the churches of Nevv-England. Manifesting; 1. The weaknesse of his proofes. 2. The contradictions to himselfe, and others. 3. The middle-way (so called) of Independents, to be the extreme, or by-way of the Brownists. / By an earnest well-wisher to the truth.	Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664.	1645 (1645)	Wing C1640; Thomason E299_4; ESTC R200247	69,538	116

than_o the_o elder_n have_v over_o all_o the_o brethren_n i_o profess_v i_o understand_v nothing_o in_o this_o controversy_n yet_o this_o i_o understand_v that_o you_o speak_v clear_a otherwise_o sometime_o deny_v the_o brethren_n any_o rule_n or_o authority_n reserve_v it_o only_o to_o the_o elder_n as_o if_o you_o mean_v no_o more_o but_o that_o the_o people_n do_v but_o yield_v consent_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o their_o elder_n by_o obedience_n to_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n and_o many_o such_o like_a word_n 5._o but_o to_o the_o point_n in_o hand_n the_o jury_n than_o do_v not_o represent_v the_o brethren_n but_o the_o rule_v elder_n which_o rule_v elder_n stand_v in_o stead_n of_o all_o the_o brethren_n as_o the_o jury_n do_v in_o stead_n of_o all_o the_o people_n and_o so_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o people_n be_v save_v otherwise_o all_o the_o people_n shall_v be_v of_o the_o jury_n as_o all_o the_o congregation_n be_v allow_v by_o you_o and_o other_o to_o be_v judge_n of_o the_o offender_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v it_o be_v a_o liberty_n or_o privilege_n to_o the_o party_n that_o be_v arraign_v that_o he_o may_v be_v judge_v by_o his_o peer_n it_o be_v not_o a_o liberty_n of_o the_o jury_n so_o it_o be_v a_o privilege_n for_o any_o accuse_a brother_n that_o he_o shall_v be_v try_v and_o judge_v by_o his_o peer_n the_o ruling-elders_a it_o be_v no_o privilege_n of_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o brethren_n to_o be_v his_o judge_n as_o it_o be_v no_o privilege_n of_o all_o the_o people_n at_o the_o assize_n that_o they_o may_v claim_v a_o place_n in_o the_o jury._n 6._o that_o which_o you_o add_v that_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o the_o judge_n and_o jury_n for_o say_v you_o though_o the_o jury_n have_v give_v up_o their_o verdict_n yet_o the_o malefactor_n be_v not_o thereupon_o legal_o condemn_v much_o less_o execute_v but_o upon_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o judge_n this_o be_v right_o parallele_v will_v make_v against_o you_o so_o though_o the_o ruling-elders_a represent_v the_o people_n give_v up_o their_o vote_n and_o judgement_n yet_o the_o party_n be_v not_o excommunicate_v but_o upon_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o pastor_n and_o indeed_o the_o jury_n rather_o seem_v to_o acquit_v or_o condemn_v than_o the_o judge_n he_o do_v but_o pronounce_v the_o sentence_n as_o they_o have_v adjudge_v it_o so_o the_o ruling-elders_a be_v more_o in_o number_n by_o vote_n determine_v the_o cause_n which_o be_v pronounce_v by_o the_o pastor_n and_o so_o the_o parallel_n be_v fair_a and_o full_a but_o that_o all_o the_o people_n at_o the_o assize_n shall_v give_v up_o their_o verdict_n as_o well_o as_o the_o jury_n be_v not_o in_o practice_n in_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o so_o spoil_v the_o parallel_n of_o the_o vote_n of_o all_o the_o brethren_n in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o you_o persist_v to_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n may_v be_v say_v to_o bind_v and_o loose_v in_o that_o they_o consent_v and_o concur_v with_o the_o elder_n both_o in_o discern_v it_o to_o be_v just_a and_o in_o declare_v their_o judgement_n by_o lift_v up_o of_o hand_n or_o by_o silence_n and_o after_o by_o reject_v the_o party_n etc._n etc._n just_o as_o all_o the_o people_n at_o a_o assize_n may_v be_v say_v to_o condemn_v or_o acquit_v because_o they_o consent_v with_o the_o judge_n and_o jury_n both_o by_o discern_v it_o to_o be_v just_a and_o in_o declare_v their_o judgement_n by_o lift_v up_o their_o hand_n or_o by_o silence_n and_o after_o by_o reject_v the_o party_n but_o what_o if_o the_o people_n do_v not_o consent_v as_o discern_v it_o not_o to_o be_v just_a nor_o will_v reject_v the_o party_n be_v he_o then_o acquit_v thus_o it_o must_v be_v or_o it_o hold_v not_o proportion_n with_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n for_o if_o the_o brethren_n do_v no_o more_o but_o approve_v and_o execute_v the_o sentence_n of_o the_o presbytery_n this_o be_v just_a nothing_o to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n intend_v to_o be_v give_v they_o and_o be_v a_o mere_a passive_a privilege_n and_o that_o you_o may_v see_v your_o own_o inconstancy_n consider_v what_o you_o say_v elsewhere_o page_n 11._o the_o brethren_n stand_v in_o a_o order_n even_o in_o a_o orderly_a subjection_n according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o gospel_n page_n 15._o they_o give_v consent_n in_o obedience_n to_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n page_n 37._o they_o the_o people_n discern_v the_o light_n and_o truth_n ready_o yield_v obedience_n to_o their_o overseer_n page_n 41._o that_o they_o may_v consent_v to_o the_o judgement_n and_o sentence_n of_o the_o elder_n have_v you_o keep_v yourself_o constant_a to_o these_o expression_n you_o have_v both_o preserve_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o now_o for_o a_o conclusion_n of_o this_o section_n let_v i_o urge_v you_o with_o a_o argument_n of_o your_o own_o against_o episcopacy_n page_n 39_o hierome_n say_v the_o church_n be_v govern_v by_o the_o common-council_n of_o the_o presbyter_n 31._o presbyter_n that_o nothing_o be_v do_v without_o their_o counsel_n impli_v that_o nothing_o be_v do_v without_o their_o authority_n the_o way_n page_z 31._o the_o prelate_n evasion_n be_v by_o their_o counsel_n ask_v not_o follow_v you_o answer_v this_o will_v imply_v a_o contradiction_n to_o hieromes_n word_n for_o in_o ask_v their_o counsel_n and_o not_o follow_v it_o the_o bishop_n shall_v govern_v the_o church_n against_o their_o council_n which_o be_v a_o contradiction_n so_o say_v i_o the_o church_n say_v you_o be_v govern_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o brethren_n i_o ask_v whether_o you_o mean_v their_o counsel_n and_o consent_n ask_v only_o or_o follow_v also_o if_o the_o late_a than_o the_o brethren_n have_v as_o full_a authority_n with_o the_o elder_n as_o the_o presbyter_n have_v with_o the_o bishop_n if_o the_o former_a it_o be_v a_o contradiction_n to_o say_v the_o church_n be_v govern_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o brethren_n and_o yet_o be_v govern_v against_o their_o consent_n so_o that_o the_o question_n clear_o state_v be_v this_o whether_o the_o brethren_n have_v such_o concurrence_n and_o consent_n as_o that_o they_o have_v a_o negative_a vote_n or_o cast_v voice_n if_o they_o have_v it_o be_v that_o popular_a anarchy_n of_o you_o know_v who_o if_o not_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n only_o let_v i_o but_o remember_v you_o what_o elsewhere_o you_o say_v concern_v the_o people_n power_n in_o government_n of_o the_o church_n 100_o the_o way_n p._n 100_o in_o case_n the_o officer_n do_v err_v and_o commit_v offence_n they_o shall_v be_v govern_v by_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o brethren_n though_o otherwise_o the_o brethren_n be_v bind_v to_o obey_v and_o submit_v to_o they_o in_o the_o lord_n how_o you_o can_v reconcile_v these_o thing_n i_o know_v not_o but_o now_o you_o propound_v a_o sad_a question_n whether_o the_o church_n have_v power_n of_o proceed_v to_o the_o utmost_a censure_n of_o their_o whole_a presbytery_n before_o i_o take_v your_o answer_n i_o observe_v 1._o that_o you_o may_v have_v make_v the_o question_n also_o whether_o the_o presbytery_n have_v power_n to_o proceed_v to_o the_o utmost_a censure_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o brethren_n the_o epistoler_n resolve_v both_o negative_o epist_n p._n 4._o 2._o that_o you_o suppose_v here_o that_o the_o church_n may_v proceed_v to_o some_o though_o not_o to_o the_o utmost_a censure_n of_o their_o presbytery_n and_o that_o as_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o deny_v it_o in_o your_o answer_n so_o be_v more_o than_o liberty_n it_o be_v a_o great_a degree_n of_o authority_n not_o only_o over_o one_o of_o your_o member_n but_o over_o your_o overseer_n and_o now_o i_o shall_v view_v your_o answer_n 1._o answ_n it_o can_v say_v you_o be_v well_o conceive_v that_o the_o whole_a presbytery_n shall_v be_v proceed_v against_o because_o some_o a_o strong_a party_n perhaps_o will_v side_n with_o they_o and_o then_o the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o proceed_v without_o consult_v with_o the_o synod_n reply_n but_o 1._o this_o be_v beside_o the_o question_n which_o suppose_v the_o whole_a presbytery_n and_o the_o whole_a church_n oppose_v and_o so_o your_o answer_n may_v seem_v to_o intimate_v that_o if_o none_o do_v side_n with_o they_o the_o church_n may_v proceed_v against_o they_o and_o that_o to_o the_o utmost_a censure_n but_o only_o in_o a_o dissension_n of_o the_o church_n they_o may_v not_o 2._o if_o in_o any_o case_n they_o ought_v not_o to_o proceed_v do_v not_o this_o destroy_v their_o independency_n if_o they_o must_v fly_v to_o a_o synod_n no_o say_v you_o they_o ought_v only_o to_o consult_v the_o synod_n but_o if_o the_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n to_o determine_v and_o censure_n they_o

beside_o the_o way_n and_o why_o may_v not_o both_o but_o we_o shall_v observe_v great_a difference_n than_o these_o hereafter_o they_o now_o again_o resume_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o people_n interest_n and_o the_o elder_n rule_n and_o authority_n and_o illustrate_v it_o by_o the_o former_a similitude_n of_o a_o company_n of_o alderman_n and_o a_o common-council_n or_o body_n of_o the_o people_n in_o some_o corporation_n where_o the_o interest_n of_o the_o one_o be_v distinct_a from_o the_o other_o so_o as_o without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o both_o nothing_o be_v esteem_v as_o a_o city_n act_n but_o so_o as_o in_o this_o company_n of_o the_o elder_n this_o power_n be_v proper_o authority_n but_o in_o the_o people_n be_v a_o privilege_n or_o power_n enough_o have_v be_v say_v to_o this_o already_o only_o i_o will_v know_v why_o they_o call_v the_o common-council_n a_o body_n of_o the_o people_n sure_o they_o do_v not_o know_v any_o corporation_n i_o think_v where_o the_o 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sentence_n the_o ultimate_a formal_a ministerial_a act_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v shall_v consist_v and_o yet_o place_v the_o rule_n and_o authority_n original_o and_o chief_o in_o the_o people_n and_o then_o see_v how_o little_a difference_n there_o be_v between_o themselves_o and_o they_o it_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o the_o alderman_n and_o common_a council_n in_o the_o major_a part_n nothing_o be_v esteem_v as_o a_o city_n act_n but_o without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n it_o be_v so_o without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o the_o pastor_n and_o elder_n nothing_o be_v to_o be_v esteem_v as_o a_o church_n act_n but_o if_o the_o parallel_n be_v right_a without_o the_o brethren_n it_o be_v that_o the_o brethren_n have_v any_o power_n of_o concurrence_n with_o the_o elder_n in_o their_o act_n be_v beg_v not_o prove_v and_o their_o own_o word_n confute_v it_o the_o multitude_n say_v they_o ought_v by_o a_o command_n from_o christ_n to_o be_v subject_a and_o obedient_a to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o ordinance_n etc._n etc._n as_o ruler_n set_v over_o they_o but_o if_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v subject_a and_o obedient_a to_o the_o act_n of_o their_o elder_n or_o ruler_n they_o have_v no_o more_o concurrence_n to_o their_o act_n by_o way_n of_o power_n than_o the_o common_a people_n have_v to_o the_o act_n of_o the_o alderman_n and_o common-council_n which_o be_v a_o mere_a passive_a concurrence_n and_o consent_n the_o next_o similitude_n of_o a_o virgin_n be_v nothing_o parallel_v to_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n a_o virgin_n say_v they_o have_v a_o power_n ultimate_o to_o dissent_v upon_o a_o unsatisfy_a dislike_n and_o the_o match_n be_v not_o valid_a without_o her_o consent_n but_o the_o common_a people_n in_o a_o corporation_n have_v no_o such_o power_n ultimate_o to_o dissent_v than_o again_o the_o government_n be_v democraticall_a and_o if_o they_o give_v this_o power_n to_o the_o brethren_n ultimate_o to_o dissent_v they_o give_v they_o more_o than_o a_o interest_n even_o a_o power_n of_o authority_n to_o annul_v all_o act_n and_o censure_v make_v by_o the_o elder_n which_o i_o take_v it_o be_v no_o less_o than_o brownism_n for_o they_o can_v say_v no_o more_o again_o they_o suppose_v a_o government_n temper_v of_o aristocracy_n and_o democracy_n in_o which_o the_o people_n have_v a_o share_n and_o their_o actual_a consent_n be_v neccessary_a to_o all_o law_n and_o sentence_n whereas_o a_o few_o noble_n that_o be_v set_v over_o they_o in_o who_o the_o formal_a sanction_n of_o all_o shall_v lie_v in_o these_o it_o be_v rule_n and_o authority_n in_o that_o multitude_n but_o power_n or_o interest_n but_o i_o pray_v be_v not_o that_o government_n where_o the_o people_n actual_a consent_n and_o so_o their_o dissent_n be_v necessary_a to_o all_o law_n and_o sentence_n mere_o popular_a and_o in_o show_v only_o aristocratical_a the_o case_n be_v just_a the_o brownist_n their_o church_n seem_v to_o be_v temper_v of_o aristocracy_n in_o their_o select_a officer_n choose_v and_o ordain_v by_o themselves_o as_o you_o be_v and_o democracy_n in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n but_o they_o grant_v the_o people_n actual_a consent_n and_o dissent_v necessary_a to_o all_o act_n and_o sentence_n swallow_v up_o the_o vote_n of_o the_o elder_n and_o so_o their_o government_n be_v whole_o or_o chief_o popular_a give_v such_o a_o power_n to_o the_o people_n as_o you_o do_v and_o i_o will_v use_v your_o own_o word_n all_o that_o be_v say_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n about_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o elder_n and_o the_o people_n obedience_n to_o they_o be_v to_o be_v look_v upon_o but_o as_o metaphor_n and_o to_o hold_v no_o proportion_n with_o any_o substantial_a reality_n of_o rule_n and_o government_n the_o brethren_n to_o make_v their_o way_n more_o plausible_a show_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o time_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n then_o the_o church_n be_v in_o her_o nonage_n and_o therefore_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o all_o church-matter_n be_v in_o their_o tutor_n and_o governor_n but_o now_o the_o church_n be_v out_o of_o her_o nonage_n and_o more_o general_o able_a be_v visible_a saint_n as_o they_o shall_v be_v to_o join_v with_o their_o guide_n etc._n etc._n but_o they_o forget_v themselves_o present_o confess_v the_o weakness_n and_o unskilfulnesse_n of_o the_o people_n for_o the_o generality_n of_o they_o in_o comparison_n of_o their_o officer_n gift_v for_o the_o government_n he_o have_v therefore_o place_v a_o rule_n and_o authority_n in_o those_o officer_n over_o they_o not_o direct_v only_o but_o bind_v so_o as_o not_o only_o nothing_o shall_v be_v do_v without_o they_o but_o not_o esteem_v valid_o do_v unless_o do_v by_o they_o now_o i_o pray_v be_v it_o any_o more_o in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v not_o they_o to_o be_v visible_a saint_n be_v not_o their_o guide_n gift_v for_o that_o purpose_n suitable_a to_o those_o time_n and_o i_o think_v the_o brownist_n may_v grant_v they_o thus_o much_o their_o officer_n be_v but_o the_o church_n servant_n and_o yet_o they_o say_v nothing_o may_v in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n of_o church-government_n be_v do_v without_o they_o nor_o valid_o do_v unless_o do_v by_o they_o but_o i_o marvel_v they_o shall_v call_v the_o power_n of_o the_o elder_n a_o bind_a power_n when_o as_o they_o say_v before_o the_o elder_n have_v no_o power_n to_o censure_v without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o the_o people_n as_o nor_o the_o people_n without_o the_o elder_n which_o be_v just_a the_o same_o which_o brownist_n say_v nor_o can_v this_o balance_v of_o the_o power_n prevent_v anarchie_n what_o ever_o it_o may_v do_v tyranny_n for_o certain_o if_o the_o people_n consent_n and_o concurrence_n be_v necessary_a

who_o ordain_v the_o office_n but_o who_o ordain_v the_o officer_n those_o that_o the_o apostle_n ordain_v have_v their_o office_n immediate_o from_o christ_n but_o have_v not_o their_o ordination_n immediate_o from_o christ_n that_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o apostle_n now_o from_o whosoever_o the_o officer_n derive_v their_o ordination_n immediate_o from_o they_o immediate_o they_o do_v derive_v their_o authority_n but_o say_v you_o the_o officer_n do_v immediate_o derive_v their_o ordination_n from_o the_o church_n of_o brethren_n ergo_fw-la they_o derive_v immediate_o their_o authority_n from_o the_o church_n of_o brethren_n and_o consequent_o the_o church_n of_o brethren_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o authority_n as_o well_o as_o of_o liberty_n and_o not_o the_o elder_n certain_o all_o your_o 3_o character_n of_o a_o first_o subject_n fall_v upon_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o successor_n 1._o they_o first_o receive_v their_o power_n from_o christ_n 2._o they_o first_o put_v forth_o the_o exercise_n of_o that_o power_n 3._o they_o first_o communicate_v that_o power_n to_o other_o you_o say_v here_o god_n have_v not_o give_v a_o spirit_n of_o rule_n and_o government_n ordinary_o to_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o brethren_n and_o ergo_fw-la neither_o have_v he_o give_v they_o the_o first_o receipt_n of_o the_o key_n of_o authority_n to_o who_o he_o have_v not_o give_v the_o gift_n to_o employ_v it_o but_o you_o give_v the_o body_n of_o the_o brethren_n alone_o the_o first_o receipt_n and_o exercise_v too_o of_o the_o key_n of_o authority_n when_o you_o give_v they_o power_n to_o choose_v and_o ordain_v their_o officer_n which_o ordination_n be_v confess_v by_o yourself_o to_o be_v a_o act_n of_o rule_n and_o authority_n ergo_fw-la 48._o the_o way_n p._n 48._o you_o do_v direct_o contradict_v yourself_o without_o any_o possibility_n of_o reconciliation_n that_o i_o can_v imagine_v obj._n 1_o how_o can_v the_o brethren_n invest_v a_o elder_a with_o rule_n if_o they_o have_v not_o power_n of_o rule_n in_o themselves_o sol._n partly_o by_o choose_v he_o to_o that_o office_n which_o god_n have_v invest_v with_o rule_n partly_o by_o subject_v themselves_o unto_o he_o reply_v 1_o your_o first_o reason_n be_v of_o no_o validity_n choose_v to_o a_o office_n do_v not_o invest_v with_o the_o rule_n of_o that_o office_n election_n give_v not_o a_o office_n but_o only_o nominate_v or_o design_v a_o person_n fit_a for_o that_o office_n it_o be_v ordination_n that_o give_v the_o office_n and_o the_o rule_n or_o authority_n of_o that_o office_n the_o seven_o deacon_n choose_v by_o the_o people_n be_v not_o officer_n till_o the_o apostle_n have_v ordain_v they_o if_o they_o be_v not_o than_o election_n give_v no_o office_n and_o consequent_o no_o authority_n belong_v to_o that_o office_n if_o they_o be_v than_o ordination_n be_v a_o mere_a empty_a ceremony_n and_o the_o brethren_n do_v proper_o give_v they_o authority_n which_o themselves_o have_v not_o to_o give_v beside_o election_n to_o this_o or_o that_o place_n presuppose_v at_o least_o sometime_o the_o party_n invest_v with_o authority_n before_o as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o translation_n of_o a_o elder_a from_o one_o church_n to_o another_o and_o only_o admit_v he_o to_o the_o exercise_n of_o it_o pro_fw-la hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la as_o they_o speak_v 2._o your_o second_o reason_n be_v as_o weak_a as_o the_o former_a because_o they_o profess_v their_o subjection_n to_o he_o this_o can_v invest_v he_o with_o the_o rule_n such_o as_o we_o speak_v of_o suppose_v a_o company_n of_o brethren_n choose_v a_o gift_a brother_n to_o prophesy_v to_o they_o and_o profess_v their_o subjection_n to_o he_o in_o the_o lord_n do_v this_o invest_v he_o with_o authority_n of_o a_o elder_a to_o rule_v over_o they_o if_o it_o do_v then_o ordination_n be_v a_o thing_n not_o necessary_a either_o by_o the_o brethren_n or_o elder_n yet_o by_o and_o by_o we_o shall_v hear_v you_o require_v ordination_n of_o elder_n to_o make_v a_o complete_a elder_n if_o it_o do_v not_o than_o you_o have_v not_o satisfy_v the_o objection_n obj._n 2._o the_o church_n be_v christ_n spouse_n wife_n queen_n ergo_fw-la she_o have_v the_o key_n of_o rule_n at_o her_o girdle_n sol._n there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n between_o queen_n and_o poor_a man_n wife_n the_o first_o have_v their_o officer_n for_o every_o business_n and_o service_n and_o so_o no_o key_n leave_v in_o their_o hand_n of_o any_o office_n but_o of_o liberty_n to_o call_v for_o what_o they_o want_v according_a to_o the_o king_n royal_a allowance_n but_o poor_a man_n wife_n that_o have_v no_o officer_n may_v carry_v the_o key_n at_o their_o own_o girdle_n reply_n this_o answer_n overthrow_v itself_o for_o 1._o the_o liberty_n which_o you_o grant_v this_o queen_n the_o church_n be_v part_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o a_o great_a part_n too_o if_o not_o the_o whole_a viz._n to_o choose_v and_o ordain_v she_o own_o officer_n and_o to_o censure_v they_o offend_v which_o no_o queen_n be_v allow_v to_o do_v ergo_fw-la the_o church_n have_v the_o key_n at_o her_o girdle_n which_o a_o queen_n have_v not_o 2._o you_o say_v and_o that_o true_o the_o queen_n have_v only_o a_o liberty_n to_o call_v for_o what_o she_o want_v but_o have_v no_o power_n to_o make_v she_o own_o officer_n the_o king_n do_v that_o by_o some_o officer_n depute_v by_o himself_o for_o that_o purpose_n to_o set_v they_o apart_o to_o give_v they_o their_o commission_n or_o oath_n etc._n etc._n just_o so_o it_o be_v in_o the_o church_n all_o the_o officer_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n objectiuè_fw-la for_o the_o good_a and_o benefit_n of_o the_o church_n but_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o make_v and_o ordain_v their_o own_o officer_n but_o only_o to_o call_v upon_o they_o for_o that_o allowance_n which_o the_o king_n of_o the_o church_n have_v grant_v they_o 3._o if_o poor_a man_n wife_n may_v carry_v the_o key_n of_o any_o office_n at_o their_o own_o girdle_n when_o their_o husband_n have_v no_o officer_n you_o seem_v to_o give_v a_o great_a honour_n and_o liberty_n to_o they_o then_o to_o queen_n or_o lady_n and_o withal_o you_o give_v we_o leave_v to_o infer_v that_o church_n that_o have_v no_o officer_n of_o their_o own_o be_v in_o better_a case_n than_o those_o that_o have_v they_o that_o have_v officer_n have_v put_v the_o key_n in_o their_o officer_n hand_n they_o that_o have_v none_o may_v and_o do_v wear_v they_o at_o their_o own_o girdle_n which_o if_o you_o affirm_v as_o you_o often_o do_v i_o dare_v affirm_v it_o to_o be_v flat_a brownism_n and_o not_o the_o middle_a way_n you_o pretend_v obj._n 3_o the_o whole_a body_n natural_a be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o all_o the_o natural_a power_n as_o sight_n be_v first_o in_o the_o body_n before_o in_o the_o eye_n soil_n it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o mystical_a as_o with_o the_o natural_a body_n there_o the_o faculty_n be_v inexistent_a not_o so_o here_o reply_v 1_o this_o again_o contradict_v your_o first_o proposition_n where_o you_o say_v a_o particular_a church_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o all_o church-office_n and_o power_n and_o here_o you_o say_v they_o be_v not_o actual_o inexistent_a how_o then_o be_v it_o the_o first_o subject_n see_v accidentis_fw-la esse_fw-la est_fw-la inesse_fw-la 2._o if_o the_o church_n choose_v out_o of_o themselves_o officer_n gift_v be_v not_o they_o then_o inexistent_a 3._o you_o confess_v they_o be_v in_o some_o case_n unless_o say_v you_o some_o of_o they_o have_v all_o the_o gift_n of_o all_o the_o officer_n which_o often_o they_o have_v not_o true_n but_o oftentimes_o they_o have_v either_o presbyter_n or_o man_n fit_a to_o be_v presbyter_n and_o than_o you_o answer_v not_o the_o objection_n and_o if_o they_o have_v presbyter_n before_o they_o choose_v they_o to_o be_v they_o as_o your_o word_n seem_v to_o import_v they_o may_v than_o they_o do_v not_o invest_v they_o with_o power_n of_o elder_n by_o choose_v they_o as_o former_o you_o seem_v to_o assert_v last_o you_o say_v if_o the_o power_n of_o the_o presbytery_n be_v give_v to_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o brethren_n as_o such_o primò_fw-la &_o per_fw-la se_fw-la than_o it_o will_v be_v find_v in_o every_o particular_a church_n of_o brethren_n but_o say_v i_o you_o assert_v both_o the_o antecedent_n in_o the_o first_o proposition_n every_o particular_a congregation_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o all_o church_n power_n and_o the_o consequence_n when_o you_o say_v every_o particular_a church_n have_v power_n to_o choose_v ordain_v and_o censure_n ergo_fw-la obj._n 4._o the_o government_n be_v mix_v of_o monarchy_n aristocracy_n and_o democracy_n ergo_fw-la the_o people_n have_v some_o power_n in_o government_n sol._n your_o first_o answer_n seem_v to_o

the_o offence_n and_o consent_n unto_o the_o sentence_n the_o church_n there_o mean_v be_v that_o part_n of_o the_o church_n which_o the_o party_n refuse_v to_o hear_v but_o he_o refuse_v to_o hear_v the_o presbytery_n who_o do_v speak_v to_o he_o not_o the_o people_n who_o do_v not_o authoritative_o speak_v to_o he_o ergo_fw-la to_o tell_v the_o church_n be_v to_o tell_v the_o presbytery_n sol._n 2._o the_o church_n be_v never_o put_v for_o the_o presbytery_n alone_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n reply_v 1_o this_o be_v to_o beg_v the_o question_n we_o say_v it_o must_v so_o be_v understand_v in_o this_o place_n and_o you_o do_v not_o disprove_v it_o nay_o 2._o you_o rather_o confirm_v it_o by_o your_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o objection_n our_o saviour_n allude_v to_o the_o church-censure_n in_o the_o jewish_a church_n but_o there_o the_o church_n censure_v be_v the_o synagogue_n a_o court_n of_o the_o consistory_n ergo_fw-la as_o shall_v further_o appear_v in_o the_o next_o obj._n 2._o in_o the_o old_a testament_n the_o congregation_n be_v often_o put_v for_o the_o elder_n and_o ruler_n of_o the_o church_n sol._n not_o alone_o but_o sit_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o congregation_n reply_n that_o be_v enough_o for_o our_o purpose_n for_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o the_o people_n may_v be_v present_a to_o hear_v thing_n then_o and_o so_o they_o may_v now_o but_o if_o the_o elder_n be_v call_v the_o church_n as_o distinct_a from_o the_o people_n when_o they_o sit_v in_o presence_n of_o the_o people_n much_o more_o may_v they_o be_v call_v the_o church_n when_o they_o sit_v alone_o and_o to_o that_o custom_n of_o the_o jew_n your_o self_n acknowledge_v in_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o objection_n do_v our_o saviour_n allude_v when_o he_o say_v tell_v the_o church_n but_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o jew_n be_v to_o tell_v the_o elder_n and_o ruler_n not_o the_o people_n and_o whereas_o you_o say_v if_o a_o sentence_n illegal_a be_v pass_v by_o they_o the_o people_n do_v sometime_o protest_v against_o it_o sometime_o refuse_v to_o execute_v it_o and_o the_o same_o they_o may_v and_o ought_v to_o do_v at_o any_o time_n in_o like_a case_n though_o this_o may_v be_v true_a when_o thing_n be_v do_v in_o a_o illegal_a way_n and_o evident_o illegal_a as_o the_o instance_n be_v yet_o it_o be_v a_o dangerous_a assertion_n to_o government_n for_o under_o that_o pretence_n people_n will_v take_v liberty_n to_o make_v void_a any_o sentence_n if_o they_o conceive_v it_o but_o illegal_a obj._n 3_o by_o church_n he_o mean_v a_o synod_n or_o classis_fw-la of_o presbyter_n of_o many_o church_n sol._n 1._o we_o find_v not_o any_o where_n that_o a_o church_n be_v put_v for_o a_o synod_n of_o presbytery_n reply_n the_o question_n be_v of_o this_o place_n and_o you_o must_v not_o beg_v that_o it_o be_v not_o here_o mean_v of_o a_o synod_n of_o presbytery_n if_o it_o be_v mean_v but_o of_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n it_o quite_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o people_n but_o we_o do_v not_o say_v it_o be_v direct_o mean_v of_o a_o synod_n of_o presbytery_n but_o by_o a_o just_a consequence_n if_o a_o congregationall_a presbytery_n be_v here_o mean_v as_o we_o think_v it_o be_v to_o reclaim_v a_o particular_a offend_a party_n in_o a_o congregation_n then_o by_o proportion_n here_o be_v mean_v a_o synod_n of_o presbytery_n when_o a_o whole_a church_n err_v or_o be_v heretical_a or_o else_o christ_n have_v not_o provide_v so_o well_o for_o a_o whole_a church_n as_o for_o a_o particular_a person_n and_o three_o we_o can_v see_v a_o reason_n why_o a_o church_n may_v not_o be_v take_v for_o a_o synod_n of_o presbytery_n as_o well_o as_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n of_o church_n as_o it_o be_v by_o yourself_o page_n 49._o a_o congregation_n of_o church_n a_o church_n of_o church_n for_o what_o be_v a_o synod_n but_o a_o church_n of_o church_n so_o you_o sol._n 2._o as_o a_o congregation_n can_v reach_v the_o removal_n of_o all_o offence_n so_o it_o may_v be_v say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o trouble_v synod_n with_o every_o offence_n and_o when_o they_o do_v meet_v they_o may_v err_v also_o and_o so_o may_v a_o general_a council_n and_o so_o no_o remedy_n for_o they_o reply_v 1_o we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o synod_n be_v to_o be_v trouble_v with_o every_o small_a offence_n or_o to_o take_v the_o business_n of_o a_o congregation_n out_o of_o their_o hand_n but_o only_o with_o great_a matter_n and_o when_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n can_v end_v they_o or_o be_v so_o bad_a it_o will_v not_o 2._o synod_n and_o counsel_n may_v err_v but_o not_o so_o easy_o as_o a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o alicubi_fw-la sistendum_fw-la there_o must_v be_v a_o end_n of_o pursuit_n and_o refer_v the_o business_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o king_n of_o the_o church_n as_o in_o case_n of_o parliament_n the_o high_a tribunal_n that_o we_o have_v they_o may_v err_v and_o if_o they_o do_v private_a person_n must_v sit_v down_o or_o appeal_v to_o the_o next_o but_o that_o be_v a_o strange_a assertion_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o purpose_n of_o christ_n to_o prescribe_v a_o rule_n for_o the_o removal_n of_o all_o offence_n out_o of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o such_o private_a and_o less_o heinous_a as_o grow_v notorious_a by_o obstinacy_n for_o if_o they_o be_v public_a the_o apostle_n give_v another_o rule_n to_o cast_v such_o a_o person_n out_o of_o all_o communion_n without_o that_o admonition_n etc._n etc._n reply_n the_o apostle_n do_v not_o mean_v absolute_o that_o they_o shall_v cast_v out_o the_o incestuous_a person_n but_o suppose_v his_o impenitency_n and_o obstinacy_n to_o give_v satisfaction_n for_o i_o can_v imagine_v that_o the_o apostle_n will_v have_v a_o humble_v penitent_a offender_n cast_v out_o of_o all_o communion_n and_o you_o know_v it_o be_v suppose_v by_o many_o learned_a divine_n the_o man_n be_v not_o excommunicate_v but_o upon_o the_o charge_n reproof_n and_o admonition_n yield_v and_o escape_v the_o censure_n of_o which_o more_o by_o and_o by_o but_o say_v you_o what_o if_o the_o whole_a presbytery_n offend_v or_o such_o a_o party_n as_o will_v draw_v a_o faction_n in_o the_o church_n the_o ready_a course_n be_v to_o bring_v the_o matter_n to_o a_o synod_n but_o you_o have_v prescribe_v two_o other_o remedy_n elsewhere_o 1._o the_o brethren_n may_v withdraw_v or_o 2._o they_o may_v proceed_v to_o censure_v their_o whole_a presbytery_n that_o be_v i_o think_v to_o excommunicate_v they_o why_o then_o shall_v they_o trouble_v themselves_o with_o a_o synod_n which_o be_v hardly_o procure_v if_o the_o congregation_n be_v find_v faithful_a and_o willing_a to_o remove_v a_o offence_n by_o due_a censure_n why_o shall_v the_o offence_n be_v call_v up_o to_o more_o public_a judicature_n and_o the_o plaster_n make_v broad_a than_o the_o sore_n they_o be_v your_o own_o word_n page_n 42._o i_o forbear_v the_o other_o objection_n arg._n 3._o from_o the_o practice_n and_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n obj._n this_o be_v the_o act_n of_o paul_n no_o act_n of_o judicial_a authority_n in_o the_o church_n but_o rather_o of_o subjection_n to_o his_o sentence_n etc._n etc._n sol._n the_o judgement_n of_o paul_n be_v not_o a_o judicial_a sentence_n deliver_v he_o to_o satan_n but_o a_o judicious_a doctrine_n and_o instruction_n teach_v they_o what_o to_o do_v in_o that_o case_n reply_n thus_o you_o may_v evade_v that_o other_o text_n where_o yet_o you_o grant_v that_o paul_n alone_o do_v excommunicate_a alexander_n and_o justify_v his_o do_v of_o it_o as_o have_v in_o he_o the_o power_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o when_o absent_a from_o the_o church_n or_o party_n he_o may_v use_v it_o be_v not_o the_o place_n parallel_v i_o have_v deliver_v he_o to_o satan_n and_o i_o have_v judge_v already_o that_o such_o a_o one_o be_v deliver_v to_o satan_n else_o it_o may_v be_v say_v 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authority_n and_o ergo_fw-la can_v not_o authoritative_o forgive_v he_o as_o nor_o authoritative_o bind_v he_o the_o same_o power_n bind_v and_o lose_v but_o the_o elder_n only_o do_v or_o can_v authoritative_o bind_v ergo_fw-la obj._n 2._o some_o in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n do_v it_o viz._n the_o presbytery_n sol._n it_o be_v apparent_a by_o the_o text_n that_o the_o brethren_n concur_v and_o that_o with_o some_o act_n of_o power_n viz._n such_o power_n as_o the_o want_n of_o put_v it_o forth_o retard_v the_o sentence_n and_o the_o put_v it_o forth_o be_v requisite_a to_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sentence_n reply_n this_o be_v not_o evident_a in_o the_o text_n yea_o if_o such_o power_n be_v in_o the_o brethren_n sure_o it_o be_v more_o than_o liberty_n it_o be_v direct_a authority_n viz._n a_o negative_a vote_n to_o retard_v the_o sentence_n which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o the_o elder_n have_v if_o you_o mean_v only_o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n and_o a_o 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no_o power_n at_o all_o in_o it_o properly_z so_o call_v and_o true_o if_o the_o apostle_n word_n carry_v any_o colour_n of_o judgement_n in_o the_o brethren_n it_o may_v seem_v to_o import_v a_o judgement_n of_o authority_n rather_o than_o of_o discretion_n so_o he_o give_v they_o more_o than_o you_o dare_v plead_v for_o though_o not_o more_o than_o i_o fear_v they_o will_v ere_o long_o usurp_v 4._o it_o be_v grant_v the_o brethren_n may_v and_o must_v forgive_v he_o as_o well_o as_o the_o elder_n but_o not_o with_o one_o and_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o forgiveness_n the_o people_n at_o a_o assize_n do_v in_o their_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n acquit_v the_o party_n who_o the_o judge_n and_o jury_n do_v acquit_v with_o the_o judgement_n of_o authority_n what_o poor_a and_o weak_a proof_n be_v these_o for_o a_o matter_n of_o such_o moment_n as_o easy_o deny_v as_o affirm_v obj._n 3_o corinth_n be_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n sol._n no_o such_o thing_n appear_v reply_n it_o more_o 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your_o own_o exposition_n of_o some_o of_o those_o text_n when_o it_o be_v say_v to_o the_o angel_n of_o such_o a_o church_n that_o be_v say_v the_o prelatical_a party_n to_o the_o bishop_n you_o answer_v angel_n be_v put_v for_o angel_n 49._o the_o way_n p._n 49._o a_o company_n of_o elder_n not_o a_o single_a person_n but_o the_o whole_a company_n of_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n the_o whole_a presbytery_n of_o person_n more_o than_o one_o as_o be_v evident_a by_o his_o speech_n unto_o they_o as_o unto_o many_o unto_o you_o and_o some_o of_o you_o etc._n etc._n whence_o these_o 3._o thing_n may_v be_v collect_v 1._o that_o the_o guilt_n be_v not_o impute_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o to_o the_o angel_n of_o such_o a_o church_n that_o be_v say_v you_o the_o minister_n which_o quite_o destroy_v your_o argument_n 2._o that_o these_o minister_n be_v a_o whole_a presbytery_n the_o whole_a company_n of_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o it_o be_v very_o 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error_n or_o scandal_n and_o the_o same_o maintain_v by_o a_o faction_n among_o they_o now_o a_o synod_n of_o church_n or_o of_o their_o messenger_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o that_o power_n and_o authority_n whereby_o error_n be_v judicial_o convince_v and_o condemn_v the_o truth_n search_v out_o and_o determine_v and_o the_o way_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n declare_v and_o impose_v upon_o the_o church_n this_o proposition_n you_o undertake_v to_o make_v good_a by_o two_o argument_n first_o from_o the_o want_n of_o power_n in_o such_o a_o church_n to_o pass_v a_o bind_a sentence_n because_o the_o promise_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v be_v make_v to_o a_o church_n 1._o not_o err_v 2._o agree_a truth_n 18.17_o etc._n etc._n in_o answer_v hereunto_o i_o will_v not_o say_v that_o this_o argument_n prove_v not_o the_o proposition_n for_o it_o prove_v indeed_o that_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v not_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o this_o power_n and_o authority_n but_o it_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o a_o synod_n be_v but_o this_o i_o say_v that_o by_o this_o way_n of_o argue_v a_o church_n can_v seldom_o or_o never_o have_v power_n to_o bind_v or_o loose_v when_o there_o be_v not_o a_o universal_a agreement_n which_o how_o rare_o it_o happen_v experience_n tell_v we_o now_o and_o will_v do_v more_o hereafter_o in_o your_o own_o church_n few_o church_n there_o be_v that_o so_o walk_v together_o in_o peace_n and_o truth_n that_o there_o be_v no_o disagree_v party_n among_o they_o therefore_o that_o power_n be_v seldom_o in_o their_o hand_n but_o upon_o every_o difference_n or_o faction_n among_o they_o their_o power_n revert_v to_o a_o synod_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n must_v be_v call_v which_o be_v not_o easy_o do_v and_o trouble_v with_o every_o difference_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o you_o impute_v unjust_o