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A56736 An answer to Vox cleri, &c. examining the reasons against making any alterations and abatements, in order to a comprehension and shewing the expediency thereof. Payne, William, 1650-1696. 1690 (1690) Wing P896; ESTC R36661 22,857 39

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agree better with some Constitutions than more substantial food and better Instructions Let the Dissenters crave as long as they will I hope the Church can deny as stifly as they crave unreasonably And I am perfectly of our Author's mind though he had not Dr. Beveridge's Authority for it That to alter the Episcopal Government to take the Power of Ordination from Bishops and place it in the hands of Prsbyters to take away a well ordered Liturgy and bring in extemporary Prayers for publick worship to give every Minister a Jurisdiction and Power of Excommunication and many other things without which some grave Dissenters will not be comprehended is more than the Learned Doctor or any Doctor in England will grant or desire to be granted to them But surely our grave Author knows that the best and wisest if not the gravest Dissenters who are for a National Church whose Interest is most considerable and whose Credit has done the most to keep up Non-conformity that these will be comprehended with something less than what he speaks of and I doe not doubt but the bringing in of those into the Communion of the Church would tend greatly to strengthen its Interest and the Interest of the whole Protestant Religion and to break that lamentable Schism and Separation which weakens both and gives our Popish Adversaries the greatest Advantage against us and which I hope they and we are both weary of If there are some Dissenters so wild that they can never be folded nor brought into any settled Flock or Communion though I would not have them hunted and run down like wild Beasts and therefore I am not altogether so much against the Toleration as our Author is yet I think it would have done more good had the Comprehension took place before it that so the Church might have gathered first before the Separation and not have been left to glean after that has made its full harvest But our Author I perceive is as much afraid at one time that the Dissenters should come in as he is at another that they would not And what says he p. 10. if some leading Presbyterians be by our Alterations let into the Church and advanced to such Preferments as they hope for what security have we that they will not promote Divisions in the Church more dangerous than the Schism they made by Separation from us A secret Enemy within the walls of a well fortified City is more dangerous than an open Foe in the Field How then is this consistent not onely with our Author's Opinion but most serious Protestation in another place p. 26. I do here protest that were it not that the Dissenters have given us an Assurance that though these and many other Alterations should be made it would give them no satisfaction nor bring them into our Communion I would use all the Interest I have for such Alterations and for that end also part with many of the Ceremonies I should think there were a contradiction in these two places and that they would sall out were they not some Pages from one another but surely all things are not right in our Author's Head who has two such different thoughts at the same time but perhaps 't is but a mere struggle between the flesh and the spirit if they should be let in and get Preferments they might keep him and others out and if they would come in the good of it is so visible upon many accounts that a man's reason cannot but desire it and promote it so that there is a natural tenderness and moderation on one side of his head which I suppose is the softest towards Dissenters but on the other side there is a most stiff hatred and aversion to them but which of these shall take place when there is occasion must depend very much upon the Influence of the Moon and the Aspect of the Planets I consess I am not for letting in Enemies into the Church but surely by coming in they become Friends and cease to be Enemies for then they owne the Churches Communion and submit to its Authority and instead of standing out they come in and joyn with it now if any will do this I know no Church is so well fortified as to keep them out nor is there any way to distinguish such secret enemies from its secret friends but 't is a Secret some men have to find out distinctions and make differences between those of the same Communion which is very pernicious and mischievous whoever comes up to the Churches terms of Communion and to full Conformity with it are by no means to be counted secret enemies when if this does not shew them to be open friends every man may as well be suspected to be a secret enemy But if these Dissenters when they are taken into the bosom of the Church should like treacherous Vipers endeavour to sting their Mother or gnaw through her Bowels and attempt all they can to doe mischief to her how shall they be able to effect this and what way shall they accomplish it Will they set up Conventicles in their own Parishes and draw away people from the Communion of the Church of which themselves are Ministers or will they preach or write against those Ceremonies or other things to which they have publickly conformed it would be strange if they should doe this but perhaps they may doe it another way They may be chosen Convocation-men and so have opportunity to oppose and confront the Bishops and though they should pretend great reverence for the Episcopal Order and Authority yet may slight and contemn it as much as open Fanaticks when it does not suit with their humour and like bug Diotrephes love to have the preheminence above it Now if I find they doe this and make a dangerous division in the Church by this means I shall think 'em a sort of Rebellious Presbyters that deserve to be turned out of the Church not as secret but open enemies to the Bishops and that they have forgot a passage or two in Ignatius's Epistles and therefore I shall be very much tempted to be of our Author's mind to have those read hereafter in our Churches for the edisication and reproof of such assuming Presbyters p. 26. I know but one Objection more that can be picked up out of your Author's fardle of important reasons against any Alterations for they lye there like small wares in a Pedler's pack neither sorted nor parcelled but confusedly jumbled together as I suppose they lye in his head but the onely remaining Objection that I can find and I am sure I have done him justice and given full strength to any thing that looked like a reason p. 6. is this That by making Alterations the Church will run the hazard of offending a greater number of more considerable persons than they are like to gratisie thereby And he gives it in as objected formerly against the Bill for Comprehension
him my thanks for instead of an Answer to them or would have done my best to have written a Panegyrick upon that Noble Motto Nolumus mutare Leges Angliae That after all is the onely mighty and irresistable Argument that remains to be answered in this matter but I wont undertake it since it has been done to my hands by all the Parliaments and all the Convocations in England ever since the Barons wars unless by the present Convocation which has done nothing whose mind we do not yet know and till we doe it may pass for an infallible Council for surely Vox Cleri is not the mouth of it nor is our Author to be taken as the Churches Representative or Procurator General or to be allowed so many Proxies as shall make up a House But though he calls his Book Vox Cleri yet Tuba Stentorophonica Balaam's Ass prophesying or the like Title might have been as significant and suited it as well Having seen what he has to say on one side I am now to consider what has been or may be offered on the other and what he has to say against them The Reasons for some Abatements and Alterations at this time are so plain and considerable so great and important as shows the manifest expediency if not necessity of doing it and our Author has so little to say against it though he was bound to say what he could that he has thereby done more to give up the cause and satisfie every impartial man about it than if he had industriously pleaded for it though I will not say as he does of one of the Letters that a man would think this Writer to have been hired to betray the cause by his weak and impertinent arguments for its Defence for I believe our Author does honestly what he can and I don't suspect any treachery at all in his writing unless it be between his Will and his Understanding and I doubt the one does a little trick and impose upon the other for were it not for his implacable aversion and ill-will to the Fanaticks and Latitudinarians I am very confident that his Reason is for Alterations and Abatements by the little he has to say to the contrary and to the obvious and important reasons for them and because he himself so often and so expresly declares for them in his good moods and lucid intervals The first objection which he makes to himself and which rose up in his own thoughts for 't is not in answer to any of the Letters is this p. 5. Herein we may please the King the Parliament and a great part of the dissenting Laity which if it be true is very considerable Now as to the latter the dissenting Laity I don't know what to say to the great ones and the Politico's among them who are for keeping up a Separate Party as a Civil Faction in the State whom they who are the Heads of it and would make but an inconsiderable figure without it can manage upon occasion and have it ready raised and formed for their designs and I doubt they will not be so well pleased to have this and therefore themselves lessened by lessening the strength and number of the Separation as I hope the best and most honest of the Dissenting Laity will who are more concerned for the sincere good of Religion than carrying on Designs and Intrigues who will no doubt follow and accompany their Leaders into the Church as they went out with them But this I hope will be so far from being an objection to our Author or any Church of England man against Alterations and a Comprehension that it must be a very strong Argument for it since 't is the Schism and Separation in the Church that keeps up those Parties and Factions in the State which help to disturb the civil peace and quiet of the Kingdom and has been the cause of the greatest confusions in it so that whoever is a lover of the Church or Kingdom must be desirous to have an end put to them as far as is possible that we may unite in one religious and civil Interest As to the pleasing the King and Parliament hereby that I think is not to be doubted since the Parliament addressed to the King for calling a Convocation and the King was pleased thereupon to call one for this very end and design and to grant a Commission as has been usual in the like case to prepare things in order to it so that 't is to be feared that some men who are no great friends to the present settlement and constitution and who are upon some account angry and discontented are at the bottom of all this heat and stiffness against Alterations and who make use of others as Tools to work and hammer out their Designs by or at least to keep up a noise and disturbance among us as if great numbers were dissatisfied because they themselves are so for private reasons These men are mighty zealous against the Churches making any Alterations in the Circumstantials of Religion till the Court makes some Alterations in the Substantial places of profit I know we complain on all sides of being made and used as Tools as if this were the Fate of Churchmen and Religion were only an Engine in their hands charged with the terrors of another world to doe Execution only in this Our Author wishes he could leave his Countrey Minister who wrote one of the Letters well in his wits to consider whether he be not used as a Tool to destroy the established Church p. 42. by some who think themselves mighty Politicians Nay he tells us That the Authors of the two Letters may be Papists who by such Arts seek to divide that they may destroy us Now this is the deepest Plot of the Papists if it be one that ever was laid to destroy and blow up the Church and if those who are for Alterations in order to unite Protestants and strengthen the Church are Tools in the hands of Papists or other Politicians to destroy it the Church is in a lamentable condition and must necessarily be destroyed both by its friends and its enemies too and by those ways which in all appearance tend most to preserve it and the Design is laid so secretly and to be wrought so strangely that 't is impossible to prevent it On the other side 't is plain and notorious matter of fact that some Great Discontented Lay-men though not so Great as they would be did manage several of our stiff men against Alterations It was not so much behind the Curtain but the hands were seen if not the wires which moved the Puppets besides the dissatisfied Bishops and Clergy who have not taken the Oaths nor will own the present Government had more influence upon those who have sworn to the present King and Queen and most solemnly recognized them in the name of the Church of England than could be expected that men of such
different Apprehensions and acting by such different measures should at this time have had I am very sorry for their Suspension but 't is strange they should hereby have more Authority over their Clergy than they had before in a matter of greater moment and greater difficulty and 't is equal wonder to me that some men who are so stiff in other things should so soon forget their Promises and others hardly remember their Oaths That the King and Parliament will be greatly displeased with the Clergy unless they consent to some Alterations and Abatements in order to a legal Comprehension is as much to be feared as 't is certainly known that a Convocation was first desired and then summoned for this very purpose as appears by the Address of the House of Commons the King 's Writ and Commission and his Letter to the Convocation by which their minds are sufficiently known and declared for the doing the thing in general though they left the particular manner of doing it to the Clergy themselves Now the King and Parliament are to be allowed very proper Judges of the expediency and fitness or prudential necessity of this and therefore of advising and directing it as the Clergy are the fittest to execute and accomplish it since 't is a matter of a Religious and Ecclesiastical nature that belongs properly to them Now then for them to be called together for this very purpose by the Desire of Parliament and the Command of the King and to tell 'em when they come that they think it not prudent but dangerous to meddle and doe any thing is as if the President and College of Physicians should advise that in such a case such an operation should be performed and send for the Surgeons of the Hall to doe it but they should tell 'em there was no need of it and they would not meddle Where though the latter are more fit to perform the Chyrurgical Operation yet the other are as good and proper Judges that it is fit and expedient or necessary to be done But our Authour seems to deny that this will be pleasing either to the King or Parliament for four or five great and substantial Reasons 1. As to the King his Majesty hath devolved that Province to the Convocation and Parliament as if the King were not pleased with any thing but what he does himself and did not commit several things to be done by others which are very pleasing to him He hath devolved the Province of reducing Ireland to Shomberg and his Army and yet no doubt but it will be very pleasing to him and he as much expects and has given Commission to doe the one as well as the other and the happiness of his Reign and the Peace of his Kingdom depend though not equally yet in great measure upon both The King devolves the Province of raising Money to the parliament and yet what is left to them and their Prudence to doe is very necessary in it self and very pleasing to the King 2. He hath declared his satisfaction as to the present Constitution Several of the Clergy have declared theirs too if I be not mistaken and something farther than the King has done or can doe unless he subscribe and take Orders and yet they would be mightily pleased with some Alterations for the good as they think of the Church and Religion and the Peace of the Kingdom not because they are dissatisfied with the present Constitution though they suppose some little things in it may be Altered and Amended as our Authour I believe is not dissatisfied with his dear Body and Carcass but yet is willing now and then to amend and repair it for the better 3. He doth confirm his declared judgment by his constant practice in communicating with the Church as established and frequent promises to favour and protect it The more reason hath the Church to oblige and gratifie him in what he desires and proposes and thereby engage him to be its more firm and hearty friend as well as requite him for what he hath already done for it 4. As to the Parliament they do generally live in the Communion of the Church Is living in the Communion of the Church then a certain Argument of being against Alterations Surely our Authour lives in a very gross Air and his Head wants a little clearing or he would not talk at this rate 5. Nothing can be obligatory but what shall be enacted by them whose consent we are not assured of i. e. by King and Parliament Was any thing ever obligatory as a Law of the Kingdom but what was so enacted Would he have the Convocation stay till it was so obligatory and so enacted by the Civil Power before they doe any thing or can we ever be more assured of their Consent to enact any thing than This I pass now to another Reason for making these Alterations and Abatements in order to a Comprehension and that being one of our own making it must be a great reproach to us to be against it at this time when we promised and declared for it in another I mean in the Bishops Petition to King James which was in the name of the whole Church and Clergy who made it their own by consenting to it and approving it viz. That they wanted not due tenderness to Dissenters but were willing to come to such a Temper as should be thought fit when the matter should be considered in Parliament and Convocation What was the meaning of that Was it to stand our ground and doe nothing at all but be very stiff against all Alterations for the sake of Dissenters No sure that was not the Tenderness nor the Temper they were willing to come to but they must mean by it the very same thing that I am pleading for and this our Authour owns they did when he heartily wishes those Bishops were in a condition to perform their promise even for the Dissenters sake (a) p. 41. and he denys not what his Adversary had said that he doubted not but they would agree to the Alterations that are desired and he acquiesces in the Judgment of another whom he writes against That if nothing unreasonable were designed it might then have passed and a firm establishment ensued for doubtless the calm tempers of those Reverend Fathers would mightily have influenced their Sons (b) p. 17. some of the hottest of which mightily wanted such a calm Influence But now what becomes then of all their and our Author 's wise and important Reasons against making Alterations as if the Church were to be destroyed thereby as if these Concessions were only losing of ground and gaining nothing thereby since none would come in upon them but would rather be encouraged to crave more and more till they had got all and would never be satisfied neither All these must be given up since they are all overruled by this promise and opinion of the Bishops for surely They are not Tools
all the scattered Arguments on this Head and twisted them all together with the greatest strength even with the shreds of Latine belonging to them which help mightily to bind 'em but I must unloose them a little to give particular Answers to them First then I doubt not but some of the Dissenters are as stiff and peevish as other sort of men and will be as hardly brought to come in upon Alterations as others are brought to make them I am very sensible of the inflexible and indeed unchristian spirit that is in many of the Fanaticks but this I must say for them they have not engrossed it wholly to themselves nor are the onely men that are unwilling to be brought to Peace and Union upon any tolerable terms or that refuse to have it upon any but their own I doubt not nay I have moral Assurance that a great many of the best and wisest Dissenters would come in upon some few Alterations such as I think no wise and good Church-man would refuse to them for that end such as altering the Subscription and the like Proposals made by that great man the present Bishop of Worcester whose wisedom and learning fits him to be universal Bishop of the Christian Church if there were to be such an one and would serve him instead of Infallibility Had there been such an opportunity as there is now of confirming those Proposals of his by Convocation and Parliament I question not but we should long before this have seen the happy effect of them for though some angry men draw up Pleas for Non-conformity as Lawyers draw up Bills of Pleading or Indictment which they stuff out with a world of hideous and dreadfull things for forms sake and to please their Clyents yet they mean not much by them in good earnest and a few things which they demand and principally insist on would satisfie and content them There were private and particular Reasons which hindred the full effect of the Alterations in 61 but yet the number of those who conformed upon them exceeded I doubt not and was much greater than the Alterations themselves and were the number never so little which were gained by this means yet it renders those who stand out more inexcusable and vindicates the Church without any detriment to it for it loses nothing of what is substantial and necessary to its well-being but onely some little things which are not worth keeping when they keep out Peace and Union I am not for pulling down the Pillars of the Church to enlarge it nor am I for letting in those at one door who will drive out either Episcopacy or Liturgy at the other without one of which there cannot I think be due Christian government nor due Christian worship without the other But I suppose we may take down an old Escutcheon or sweep down an old Cobweb or two or set up a new Gallery or whiten the old Walls p. 35. or the like without taking down beam after beam and after a less stone a greater till the whole Fabrick be like to fall and I believe the Church of England would stand as well though Tobit and all the Apocrypha were taken out of the Kalendar and some Ceremonies out of the Rubrick which do no more conduce to the support or to the ornament of it than those odd figures which we see in some old buildings that to unskilfull people look as if they bore a great weight when nothing really lyes upon them and which any man would take down if they kept his good friends and neighbours from coming to his house I cannot see how these small Alterations in things owned to be indifferent and alterable as the Church shall think meet should be made any reflexion upon it as our Authour fears that they will be cast back as filth in our faces as if our manner of publick worship were so corrupt that we were ashamed of it and were convinced of a necessity to purge it I do not remember that any of the Dissenters who have writ against the Church since 61. though they have raked up all the objections that zeal and anger could minister or invent did ever make use of this or throw those 600 Alterations which were then made in its teeth if they had it had shewn onely greater perverseness and unjustifiable wrangling after they were gone though they did not at all corrupt our worship whilst they remained nor make it at all unlawfull but an obsolete word may be changed for one in use and an expression altered for the better in a Prayer and a translation mended that is not so exact in many places and an 100 such alterations made and yet no condemning our selves for any corruptions that we were ashamed of and were convinced of a necessity to purge out Besides these Concessions which we make for Peace sake are not so much from the necessity of the things themselves as from the weakness and ignorances the prejudices and mistakes of others and the Church uses her Authority as all wise Governours doe and as God himself did in compliance to the temper and infirmities of those who are subject to it and with regard to the greater ends of Religion and Piety Peace and Charity which she prefers to Sacrifice or any the Externals of Religion But the Dissenters will not leave craving till they have all Give an Inch and they 'll take an Ell. p. 51. Well fare an old Proverb but that which spoiles it in this case is that 't is older than 61. or than any Alterations of our Liturgy then or before or perhaps than the Reformation it self and it was as true all along and served as well against all that desired any Alterations before or since and yet 't is hard to get this and Solomon's Meddle not with those that are given to change out of some mens heads who have no great Latitude or Profundity If the Church makes a concession to some persons to have their Children baptized without the sign of the Cross must she therefore yield also to Anabaptism and to their humour who will not have Children baptized at all If she should allow some to take the Communion without Kneeling must she yield to the Quakers who are for no Communion nor no positive Ordinances at all If she think not fit to pronounce the dreadfull Sentence of Excommunication for small matters must she yield to the Erastians who would take it quite away This is like the fear of the Lunatick that if he let the Barber cut off his Beard he would cut off his Head too and therefore was always against such a dangerous Reformation of his Face I am not of that witty Dissenter's mind who was for taking away all the Ceremonies with a fine similitude Religion is in a Consumption and therefore you must cut off its Hair I doe not think that is the way to recover it nor yet to give it Asses Milk though that might
whatever others are to destroy the established Church made use of by some who think themselves mighty Politicians nor are They to be compared to an unskilfull Architect who hath undertaken to repair a good old Fabrick and make it better but pulling down beam after beam and after a lesser stone a greater till the whole Fabrick hath been like to fall and then what perhaps was designed at first he perswades the Owners that there is a necessity wholly to destroy the old and erect a new one upon better Foundations (a) p. 35. Neither are They of another Trade as scandalous almost as that of being unskilfull Architects viz. of being Ecclesiastical Tinkers who undertaking to mend one hole do usually make two or three (b) p. 45. Now all the wit and all the reason of these two Comparisons will fall upon the Bishops as well as others since they were for the same thing as our Author owns What then can he say to this promise of the Bishops why They are not in a condition to perform it now if they were never so willing * p. 53. Is it not therefore fit to be done at all by those who are in a condition if they were willing Ay but put the Bishops in statu quo and then see what they will doe They may put themselves into it when they please but must not Promises be performed because men are not in statu quo I take it to have been the Promise of the Church and Clorgy in general at that time and not only of those particular Bishops and so the Dissenters and all men took it who were extremely pleased and satisfied with it but to have another Vox Cleri now speaking quite contrary to what it did before will be such a Reproach to us as if the Church had a Double Tongue as if fear did inspire us with more good nature than the greatest mercy and blessing as if a common danger could do more to bring us to Tenderness and good Temper than a common Deliverance Surely our present Safety and Happiness should not make us forget the Vows we made in our Distress and Adversity as if they were only like the Vows of frighted Marriners in a Storm which are broken and recalled when the Tempest is blown over and there is a calm and clear Sky Was there not a kind of Solemn Protestation a Tacit Agreement a General Resolution at that time among all thinking and sober men that if they were once freed from the Danger they were then in by the Common Enemy who was strengthned and had like to have ruined us by our Divisions that they would do all that was possible to cure and remedy them for the future and come to good Terms and fair Correspondence and Christian Union with one another and will not those kind Promises and good Words and fair Pretences we then made be looked upon as a meer trick a shamefull collusion if we do not now make them good when we have a fair opportunity and are called upon to doe so and will give too just reason to others never to trust us again but for ever after to suspect the Tenderness and the Temper nay the Truth and the Justice as well as the Moderation of the Church of England I say this with hearty and affectionate concern because I think the Honour of it lies at stake which I would bring some men who seem to be concerned for it seriously to consider What were the great and important Reasons which moved the Bishops to this kind Promise to come to a Temper with the Dissenters and which perswade others at this time to the same thing by making some Alterations and Abatements in things which they scruple and we hold Indifferent is so easie and obvious to discern that he must be blinded with passion and zeal and bigottry who does not see them The bitter animosities the uncharitable heart burnings the rancorous passions the uncharitable and unchristian temper which has been begot by our lamentable Schisms and Divisions should affect every Christian heart with deep and sensible resentments and make us use all possible remedies that are likely to cure them The sad evils and mischiefs we have felt by keeping up a kind of Religious war so long in the Bowels of the Church and Kingdom whereby we have treated one another as Enemies and furiously contended on all sides for matters of no great worth or moment for in other things there were fair steps made towards an agreement in 1662. should dispose us to make up a Peace upon reasonable and fair terms and rather give up a Ceremony or two be they never so significant than still fight it out for such poor trifles in comparison to the greater things of Religion The Advantage that is given at all times to Atheism Irreligion and Profaneness as well as sometimes to Popery by our Divisions should make every lover of God and Religion not willing to sacrifice either Religion in general or the Reformation in particular to an obstinate zeal and humoursome stiffness for little things Our love to the best Church in the World and which needs fewer Alterations than any other Church whatsoever should make us do all we can to enlarge beautifie and strengthen it and not venture a desparate push to let its Enemies wait for a juncture to ruine it when we may so easily secure it by bringing in the Presbyterians into its Communion by a very few Concessions that will satisfie them and be no manner of loss or injury to our selves Lastly Our love to our Countrey and to the present peace and settlement of it which nothing can endanger but our fatal Divisions which tend to throw us back into the miseries we have just escaped and are therefore kept up and fomented by the wicked Policies of Discontented men who infuse jealousies and variances into others heads from their own private feuds and self-interest should strongly engage us to a fair union and accord with one another and to the Design which I have been pleading for because I think it will tend so much to promote it and which few men I hope upon second thoughts will be against I shall leave it to their serious consideration in the words of that learned and good man Dr. Beveridge out of whose Sermon our Author would pick something if he could to his purpose but he considers not well what he writes himself or what he transcribes out of him these are the words as they are quoted by him which are a good Summing up the matter at the last This only I dare affirm that if it be necessary to reduce wandring Sheep into Christ's Flock if to take off scruples from the minds of weak Brethren if to allay hatred appease anger and as much as may be to suppress all Dissensions concerning Religion if to recall Ecclesiastical Discipline to its primitive Vigour if to Defend and Establish the best Church in the world