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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87828	Seven questions about the controversie betweene the Church of England, and the Separatists and Anabaptists, breifely [sic] discussed. 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true church? 2. Whether the Church of England be a right nationall church? 3. Whether are the ministers in the Church of England sent of God, and so are true ministers or not? 4. Whether is the baptisme of infants a true and lawfull baptisme or no? 5. Whether it be lawfull to be rebaptized or not? 6. Whether it is lawfull to separate from all the publike ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English church, because there are some defects in discipline, and in other things amongst us? 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our churches (steeple-houses as the Separatists call them,) and to build them in other places, because they were built by idolators for idolatrous worship, were abused with images, and dedicated to saints? By Immanuel Knutton, preacher of Gods word at Beeston in Nottingham shire [sic].	Knutton, Immanuel, d. 1655.	1645 (1645)	Wing K744; Thomason E25_20; ESTC R4217	31,540	40

Prophets frequently speake of it Isa 60. Isa 61. Isa 62. and 63. and 64. c. Jer. 30. Jer. 31. Jer. 33.12 13. Ezek. 34.25 26 27 28 29. Ezek. 36.24 Ezek. 37.25 Likewise we find these Prophets speaking of Nationall Churches amongst the Gentiles which should come and joyne with the Church of the Jewes Isa 49 23. Isa 60.16 Isa 19 24.25 Doubtlesse there shall be many famous Nationall Churches after the conversion of the Jewes which I hope drawes on fast And when those dayes are come there will be more famous National Churches then ever the old Jewish Church was Zach. 14.20.21 Object But the Church of England wants those Church Officers mentioned Eph. 4.11 which Christ left to his Church Answer Can there be no Church no Christians without them What shall we say of the Families of the Patriarkes of the Jewish Congregations under the Law yea of Christ and his Apostles Either deny them to have beene visible Churches or shew us these distinct Officers amongst them looke upon the Church since Christ was there not a worthy Church of God in Jerusalem from the time of Christs ascention till the Election of the 7 Deacons those hundred and twenty Disciples Acts 1.15 And 3000. Converts Acts 2.41 those continuall troopes that flocked to the Apostles were they no true Church Let the Apostles and Evangelists be Pastors and Doctors where were their Elders Deacons Releevers Afterwards when Deacons were ordained yet what newes is their of Elders till Acts 11.30 Yet that of Jerusalem was more forward then the rest we will not as the Separatists are wont argue from Scriptures negatively no proofe yet much probability is in St. Pauls silence He writes to Rome Corinth and other Churches Those his divine letters in a sweet Christian civillity salute even ordinary Christians and would he have utterly passed by all mention of these Church Officers amongst his so precise acknowledgement of lesser titles in others if they had beene ere this ordained Rom. 1.8 1 Cor. 15. 1 Thes 1.7 Gal. 4.15 All these notwithstanding all this were true Churches famous forward and exemplary Onely the Phillippian Church is stiled with Bishops and Deacons but no Elders besides them Phil. 1.2 But through Gods great mercy we have many who conscionably teach and feed by teaching call them what you please Lecturers Parsons Vicars c. If they preach Christ truely upon true inward abilities upon a sufficient if not perfect outward vocation such are Pastors and Doctors allowed by Christ we stand not upon circumstances and appendancies of the fashions of ordination manner of choice attire titles maintenance but if for substance these be no true Pastors and Doctors Christ never had any in his Church since the Apostles left the Earth QVEST. III. Whether are the Ministers in the Church of England sent of God and so are true Ministers or not Ans I Affirme they be true Ministers of Jesus Christ sent of God into his Vineyard to build up his Church and People as living stones upon Christ the cheif corner stone Reas 1 Because we have many Godly learned and painefull Ministers as well qualified for that worthy function as any in the world who are exceedingly dilligent in the excercise of their gifts endeavouring to convert and confirme soules to the utmost of their ability now their ability and fidility argues that God hath sent them Rom. 10.15 Jer. 23.21 22. As if he had said I gave no commission to these Prophets yet they ran as of their owne heads c. If they had received directions and creands from me and had delivered them accordingly to my people they should have laboured to have turned them from their leud courses Where the Lord shewes that the conscionable and able preaching of his word proves that he sends such about that worke Reas 2 Because That God hath blessed the labours of the Ministers of this Church to the conversion of many and to their confirmation in the truth which thing God would not have done if he had not sent them Jer. 23.32 1 Cor. 9.2 Yea. the Separatists themselves received their first Illumination Faith and other graces from the word preached by us before they made a divorcement from us Object But the Ministers of the Church of England were called by the Prelates whose calling is Antichristian from the Pope therefore they are not the Ministers of Jesus Christ Ans I grant that the calling of the Lordly Prelates as they are described in the second Article of the Covenant exercise their jurisdiction in their Courts by their Substitutes is Antichristian yet the Godly and Learned Ministers of this Church called by them are true Ministers called of God for these reasons Reas 1 Because the Prelates are Christians and so their calling of us is not altogether unlawfull with the Separates every Vlebeian Artificer hath power to elect and ordaine by vertue of his Christian profession the act of the worthiest standing for all how can they deny this right to persons in some measure qualified for this worke Reas 2 Because The Prelates are learned men and Divines many of them are judicious and orthodox in judgement against popish Heresies and have written and preacht substantially against them which yet I speake not in favour of their calling for I looke upon it as Antichristian and directly opposing Christs words in Mat. 20.25 26. Reas 3 Because The Prelates in their ordination command us to preach the Gospel truely now ● we be not rightly called because called from them then one of these things of both these must necessarily follow Either it is unlawfull for the Prelates to command us to Preach the Gospel or it is unlawfull for us to preach the Gospel as they command us I cannot see how the former can be unlawfull because their charge and command to Ministers is no waies Antichristian but Christian for they command us to preach the Gospel not as Popish Prelates but as Christians and Learned Divines now good counsell is worthy to be followed from whomsoever it comes though from an enemie I see not how the latter is unlawfull if one be qualified w●th fidelity and ability he ought to preach the word though the Prelates licenced and commanded him because as yet here was no other outward way of calling Ministers to preach in this Church of England appointed and established by authority I heard of an Usurer in this Kingdome who had gotten very much money by usury and unjust gaine he made it his only calling which doubtlesse is unlawfull it pleased God to convince him of the unlawfullnesse of his usury he made restitution largely to his debtors and sent his servant with restitution money to divers of them though his course of usury was unlawfull yet it was lawfull yea needfull for him to command his servant to carrie home restitution money to such as borrowed of him and it was lawfull for his servant to obey him in this of the like nature is

Cecilianus Bishop of Carthage fell from the unity of the Church and in the end were defenders of hereticall opinions we reade 1 Sam. 2.22 what horrible abuses of the Lords service was then yea worse then is amongst us yet Elkanah and his wives did frequent the publike Assemblies 1 Sam. 1.3 which he would not have done if his presence there had beene any approbation of those abuses 1 Cor. 11.33 34. there were more horrible abuse of the Lords Supper then are amongst us yet Paul bids them not separate upon this but come together againe yet better prepared I suppose it is lawfull for you to reade a Papists Booke whose religion is heresie or to dispute with a Jesuite and yet by your presence give no approbation of his Religion and condition Mat. 23.3 Christ bids them heare the Pharisees a vaine sect sprang up amongst the Jewes 144. yeares before Christ saith Josephus yet Christ approves not of them farther then they taught the law truly but in the same chapter denounced many woes against them Phil. 1.18 Paul rejoyced that Christ was preached of envie and strife by the false Apostles whose calling was not from Christ then I beleeve that Paul accounted it lawfull for people to here such Preach and yet be in no danger of approving their false Apostleship Besides if your bare presence at our Assemblies doth give an approbation of our calling which seemes Antichristian to you then your presence in our markets where be many prophane people may as truely approove of their sins and wickednesse Christ knew Judas to bee a notorious hypocrite a covetous wordling yea a traitor yet hee admitted him into his family permits him to sit with him at the table yet Christ was farre from approving of Iudas his sin and wickednesse Object But I dare not joyne with your mixt Assemblies least I contract the guilt of their sinnes upon mine owne head Answer That blessed man of God Mr. Hooker now in New England in a famous Sermon he Preached upon 2 Tim. 3.5 answers this objectiō thus suppose saith he those in authority will not cast out prophane persons yet the Saints of God should not abstaine from the Congregation it is pittifull indeede and the thing is troublesome and tedious to a gratious heart and we must mourne for it but beeing it is not in my power I must not abstaine Then he answering the objections of the Anabaptists saith They saith hee cast this as a reproach upon our Church common drunkards say they and swearers if they pay but two pence for their offering at Easter may receive the Lords Supper he answers thus we confesse this fault let it lie where it is we cannot reforme it we onely can mourne for it and that God will accept Obj. 1 Cor. 5.11 if there be an adulterer c. with such do not eate that is communicate not he answers to eate there is not referred to the communion in eating the body of Christ but eate not with him that is be not familiar with such a person and it includes the word familiarity not communion at the Lords table Psal 41.9 their eating implyeth a common inward familiarity mine owne familiar friend c. But saith he they reply from the greater to the lesse if wee may not eate with them privately then much lesse publikely may we communicate with them he answers It s no good reason because I have more authority to refuse the company of a man in mine owne house then I have to refuse in the open congregation I can keepe a man out of my house but I cannot fling him out of the open congregation that belongs onely to those that are in authority Thus farre Mr. Hooker Next I say you may not lawfully relinquish our publique Assemblies and ordinances because of prophane persons that be amongst them whilest we have the Ordinances purely dispensed for the substance Reas 1 Because there is neither example nor precept in Scripture to warrant it if one cannot frequent the meanes of grace in mixt congregations without contracting the guilt of their sinnes then surely Elkanah would never have sacrificed to the Lord in Shiloh yearely with Hophni and Phinehas such prophane persons if there were such danger of contracting the guilt of others sinnes this way then Paul would not have wisht the Corinthians to come together againe though there were amongst thē most vile abuses of the Lords Supper worse then amongst us Vpon the same ground the Jewes might have refused to heare the Pharises as wicked a generation of Hypocrites as ever was both for life and Doctrine yet Christ bids the Jewes and his owne Disciples heare them Mat. 23.3 on the same ground its unlawfull for you to frequent our markets to have civill commerce with us for there even there doe the prophane people amongst us act and practise their wickednesse more openly bouldly and frequently then in our meeting houses in the Markets they use swearing drunkennesse lying couzening c. I should thinke it more dangerous being there though a true Christian may lawfully bee there through the necessity of his perticular calling then in our publike Assemblies at Gods worship for in Gods publike worship amongst us the prophanest persons put on a forme of piety carry themselves demurely with outward reverence they doe not act their leudenes and follie there but conforme to the outward worship I conceive then there is lesse danger for you to be there Reas 2 Because we are bound in conscience by command from Gods word to frequent the publike ordinances for our owne particular edification Isa 55.1 2 3. Prov. 8.1 to 11. verse Prov. 9.1 to 7. verse and in many other places now this I must obey or else I sinne fearefully against God and mine owne soule if the wicked intrude amongst the Saints in their sinfull estate there sins shall lie upon their owne head indeede if I commit their sins with them or approve of their wickednesse and encourage them in it or if I connive at their sinne and reprove them not for it if I have a lawfull calling to doe it or if I mourne not for their sinnes nor endeavour to reforme them then I make my selfe guilty of their sins but if I come in obedience to Gods command to meete him in his ordinances for the enlargement of my communion with him this makes me not guilty of their wickednesse if it did then doubtlesse Christ who knew Judas to be an Hypocrite would not have suffered the other Apostles to eate the Passeover with him but hee would have excluded Judas and expelled him or else hee would have diswaded the other Apostles from comming into Judas his company neither of which he did Therefore it favours strongly of Pharisaisme to relinquish our publike Assemblies because they are mixt the Pha●●●ees thought it sinne to converse with the base vulgar their Phylacteries did say touch me not for I am cleaner then thou though wee have some prophane yet not all

from this Church which I proved to bee the spouse of Christ therefore for such as have taken this Covenant and yet Separate from us how they can doe this with a good conscience I cannot see QVEST. VII Whether is it necessary to demolish our Churches Steeplehouses as the Separatists call them and to build them in other places because they were built by Idolaters for Idolatrous worship were abused with images and dedicated to Saints Ans I Hold it neither necessary not fit to pull them downe because of the Idolatrous service practised in them Reas 1 Because we that worship God in them doe reject those Superstitions which were used in them and use them lawfully in the true worship of God as Golias his sword though an instrument of cruelty and murther serving for the maintenance of heathenish Idolaty in the hand of the Gyant was yet lawfully used by David as an instrument of justice to the glory of God 1 Samuel 17.51 1 Sam. 21.9 the authority of the Magistrate hath cast Superstition out of these houses converted them to the true worship of God Reas 2 If for the Superstitious rits of consecration our Temples should be demolished then how comes it to passe that the Church yards are not liable to the same judgement seeing they have beene consecrated by Bishops with abominable rites and Idolatrous superstitions as the Temples were The people of Biscaie in Spaine admitts of no Bishop amongst them for when Fernand the Catholike came in progresse hither accompanied by the Bishop of Pampelune the people arose in armes drave back the Bishop and gathering all the dust on which they thought he had troden and flung it into the Sea If Popish superstition have defiled our Churches and Church yards with an indelible staine why serve you not them so likewise Reas 3 Then it will also follow that Popish Baptisme being in like manner defiled with Idolatrous rits ought by the like necessity to be abolished a new baptisme to be sought while you retain amongst you the baptisme administred in Popery you cannot without partiality refuse our Temples the pollution of Baptisme by idle ceremonies of crossing exorcisme exsufflation salt spittle oyle c. is as great as the pollution of the Temples by their consecration Besides Mr. Ainsworth in on part of his workes saith that persons unlawfully circumcised and baptized in Idolatrous and false Churches might yet through faith and repentance come to a lawfull and comfortable use of their former circumsition and baptisme why then cannot our repentance and faith as well sanctifie unto us the places superstitiously consecrated while we doe in like manner disclaime and renounce their superstitions Reas 4 If the superstitious consecration of places unto Idolatry doth necessarily inferre the destruction of the same then are private houses of Idolaters to be destroyed for many of them have beene defiled with images and superstitious Rits Reas 5 If Temples popishly consecrated must bee demolished because of their former superstitions then it will also follow that the living Temples as Infants in their popish Baptisme and popish Ministers in their superstitious ordinations and popish Princes in their Coronations being as much defiled with Idolatrous rits as our Temples are in like manner to be destroyed Shall Achans tent be burnt and not Achan himselfe Iosh 7.24 25. this is the rather to be marked because Revel 18.13 the soules of men are expressely mentioned and reckoned amongst the wares and marchandise of Antichrist so as the Temples are not therefore such as stand for the demolishing of our Temples I suppose they would not have such persons destroyed as are converted from popery because they have beene Papists nither would they destroy a Papists house if the Parliament should bestow one upon them Object But the retaining of these steeple-houses for the service of God is a breath of the second Commandement Exod. 20.4 5 6. with Deut. 12.2 3. Ans 1 I conceive that commandement Deut. 12. is a temporary ordinance part of Moses his pollicie that is abrogated and therefore not binding us in these times for how ever the equity thereof continue teaching us to detest Idolatry yet it bindes us not in such manner and by such meanes to signifie our detestation thereof as it did them in Moses time for example as God here commands to abolish Idolatrous places so in the next chapter Deut. 13.12.15 16 17. God commands them not onely to demolish their places of worship but also their goods and cattell to burne it with fire the equity of this commandement leades us to a great detestation of Idolatry but who will say that it is to be declared by the very same meanes and manner of judgement in destroying such things as are of necessary use Secondly As God commands to destroy Idolatrous places so hee commands to abolish their names and not to retaine them Deut. 12.3 this commandement appeares herby to be temporary and ceremoniall because now in the New Testament wee see that the names of divers Idolls have beene retained in divers persons thereupon denominated as the names of Mercury Venus Phebe Iupiter Apollo Fortuna that were heathenish Idolls worshipped for gods and goddesses and yet their names not abolished in the Saints mentioned by the Apostles Rom. 16.14 Phil. 2.25 Rom. 16.1 Titus 3.13 1 Cor. 16.17 Thirdly this command for destroying Idolatrous places as it s not perpetuall for time so also not universall for the place but expresly restrained to the land of Canaan to the Idolls of those Nations which Israel should possesse from that place they were to be cut off ●s is thrise noted in three verses together Deut. 12 1.2 3. even as God would have greater severity and detestation to bee manifested towards the Idolaters in Canaan then to those of other Countries a farre off Deut. 20.10.15 16 17. Iosh 9.6 7. Fourthly Seeing meates sacrificed to Idolls were as much polluted as the places of their worship and yet notwithstanding may now lawfully be retained for our necessary vse Psal 24.1 with 1 Cor. 10.15 26 27. why not the Temples also Fiftly There is not the like reason to abolish the buildings abused unto Idolatry now as the high places of old because God having appointed one onely place for sacrifice Deut. 12.5 6 c. Levit. 17.3.4 those high places being for sacrifice were to bee destroyed though no Idolatry had beene committed in them but beeing polluted with the service of Idolls there was then double cause of their destruction which is not now in these while differance of place is taken away John 4 21. Sixtly The high places the Groves Altars Images destroyed by Josias 2 Chron. 34. whereof no necessary use as our Temples now are the high places were Altars in heigh Mountaines and Hills Acts 19.9 10. There we find an Idolatrous place converted by the Apostle unto the service of God the schoole of Tyrannus being as the rest of the heathenish schooles the nurseries of superstition idolatry false worship and pernicious opinions was yet after this used by Paul for a place of Gods worship for a schoole of religion to preach the Gospel of Christ in the same Levit. 6.28 Levit. 11.32 33. God there ordained that things polluted being of lesse price should be broken but being of more worth were to be purged and so retained as the mercifull care of God for his people appeared herein even under the Law so much more under the Gospel this type is fullfilled unto us and God in his large bounty doth grant us the necessary use both of things polluted with Idolatry as also of such thing as were otherwise ceremonially uncleane I hope these reasons will satisfie any reasonable man who truely loves the peace of Sion they satisfie me and convince me of the truth of these points which I have endeavoured to defend but howsoever some may like these reasons and others may dislike them I shall say to my selfe in the words of the Poet Theogins 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 FINIS