vp and as it were couer the face of the earth and so compasse the campe of the faithfull and the beloued citie that therfore the campe of the faithfull and the beloued citie is as large and as many in number as their enimies when experience proueth the contrary at this daye if all that be baptized were true Christians and the Church of Christ yet are they nothing in multitude in comparison of the Turkes and Infidels wherfore for any thing that is here shewed the Church should be inuisible to the worlde when Antichrist should be in his greatest tyrannie Namely of their church and of ours by conference of places that are about Antichrist That neither Antichrist nor the apostasie agreeth to Bonâ—face the third Being demaunded Ar. 35. what yeare the religion of Papistes came in and preuailed I answere that although many abuses and corruptions entred into the Church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the diuell planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist yet we may well saye that the religion of Papistes came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obtained his antichristian exaltation which was 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of money obteined of Phocas the murthering Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the church which diuelish heresie increased vntill the yeare of our Lorde 1414. when the councell of Constance decreede that â—acrilege of the communion in one kinde Likewise Ar. 16. After I had shewed the persecution of the true Church vntill Constantine and soone after by the Arrians then the ouerthrowe of the Empire by the barbarous hereticall idolatrous nations I conclude But when Mahomet in the East and Antichrist the Pope in the West seduced the world with most detestable heresiâ— then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn Apoâ— 12. The woman clothed with the Sunne which is the Church was so persecuted by the dragon that shee fled into the Wildernesse there tâ— remaine a long season These sayings of mine Bristowe rehearseth cut off in the wast as though I referred the dragons persecution only to the Pope which I say plainly began before but was most perfect concerning the apostasie in the raigne of the popish Antichrist Againe he sayeth I doe apply this prophesie onely because of the Popes primacyâ— which is false but because of his false doctrine and heresie also For that he sayeth the Popes primacie is a trueth of the Gospell and practised before Bonifacius â—he referreth vs for proofe to Saunders tray terous booke of Monarchie and I for aunswere will send the reader â—o my ouerthrowe of his Romish Rocke The suppoâ—ed contradictions I referre alwayes to the proper place Cap. 11. But O sir where is the Scripture that you promised â—o bring so cleare c. sayth Bristowe Sir my promise was for articles of doctrine in controuersie between vs â—nd not for the fulfilling of euery prophesie which the â—ffect must better expound oftentimes then the words But furthermore sayth Bristow you make shewe of a â—ext which is against you and vse most detestable falâ—ification saying the Church should remaine in the wildernesse a long season but the text is cleane contraâ—y a very short season Say you so Bristowe where haue you these wordes in the text a very short season But you haue 1260. dayes and a time two times and â—alfe a time And can you tell vs the length of these â—imes or of the dayes either In the weekes of Daniell â—nto whome you referre the exposition of the two times for you haue not two times but times indefinitely in the reuelation the propheticall dayes are as long as common yeres As for the time two times and halfe a â—ime who is able to define the length of them But by Scripture you will proue a very short season and first you iumble together two diuerse prophecies of Apoc. 12. 20. of the loosing of Satan for a short season Why man short and long be Relatiues The time of Satans loosing is short in comparison either of the long time that he was bound or of the long and eternall time in which he shall remaine in perpetuall bondage For though Antichrist raigned in open reuelation and not in mysterie of iniquitie onely by the space of 807. yeares more or lesse and yet be not vtterly consumed but yet in his consumption Neuerthelesse for a whole 1000. yeares after Christ the gospell of saluation continued in the church though much defiled with superstition yet sounde in the onely foundation Christe openly testified by sundry publike teachers vntill Syluester the seconde Anno Domini 1000. by the diuell him selfe as euen the Popish stories confesse was put in possession of the See of Rome then was the church driuen into greater straightes then euer before the doctrine of saluation being turned into idolatry and blasphemie But it is monstrous that Bristow expoundeth the consummation of the 1000. yeares by the gospell speaking of the consummation of the worlde Matt. 24. Marke 13. and confoundeth those things that are spoken of the destruction of the temple and Ierusalem with the ende of the worlde And where he citeth Matth. 42. staâ—iâ—â— post streight after the persecution of those short dayes considering that from the destruction of Ierusalem vnto the ende of the worlde so many hundreth yeares are passed he might learne at the lest not to measure the length and shortnesse of times by mens reckonings but to remember that with the Lorde a thousand yeres are as a day and a day as a thousand yeares 2. Pet. 3. His other patching of Centones like Valentinians in steede of conserence of scripture because they consist of his onely assertion without reason or authoritie I neede not to confute As that the dayly sacrifice which Daniel prophecieth should be taken awaye by the death of Christe Daniel the 9. 12. he expoundeth it of the sacrifice of the Masse By the which â—aint Paul prophecied that wee shoulde announce our â—ordes death as though Saint Paul spake that of a saâ—rifice and not expresse of eating that bread and drinâ—ing that cuppe of the Lorde Like wise speaking of the abomination of desolatiâ—n he sayeth Daniel agreeth with the gospell the â—pocalips where he sayeth Daniel 12. From the time â—hen the dayly sacrifice shal be taken away and the abâ—omination set vp for desolation dayes 1290. Blessed is 〈…〉 e that expecteth and cometh to dayes 1335. What agreement is betwene 1260. dayes and these two numâ—ers beside that Daniel 9. the Angel sheweth that â—he abhominatian of desolation in the temple and the â—esolation shall continue euen to the consummation â—nd end Last of all he will prooue that the season is short â—ut of the Apostle 2. Thess. 2. where he chargeth the Thessalonians that they be not troubled as though the â—ay of the Lorde were then instant for Antichrist must â—irst be reuealed And
appeale out of Africa shoulde not be receiued into communioÌ„ of any in Africa What the Pope of seruile feare is constrained at this day to yeald least he shoulde be vtterly forsaken of all as hee is of most it is nothing to the purpose But I am moste ridiculous in Bristowes iudgement where I alledge Socrates the Nouatian speaking against Pope Celestinus for taking away the Nouatians Churches in Rome and counting it a point of forren Lordshippe not of Priesthoode Thus the Papistes defame such as write plainely against them Eusebius they make an Arrian Socrates a Nouatian euen as he diffamed Saint Paule in the last Chapter with much pricking of bodily lust But what cause hath hee to charge Socrates with the heresie of Nouatus He alledgeth none at al neither is he able euer to proue the crime In deed Socrates liuing at such time as the Nouatians ioyning in faith of the holy Trinitie with the Catholikes against the Arrians Macedonians and such other heretikes were not so odious speaketh lesse sharply of them then of other heresies Yet alwayes he accounteth them among heretikes As Lib. 5. Cap. 19. Ab eo tempore quo Nouatiani c. Euer since the time that the Nouatians departed from the Church Is it like that Socrates was a Nouatian when he confesseth that they were departed from the Church Likewise hauing spoken of the diuisions that were in the Catholike Churche he commeth to speake of the schismes that were among heretikes and nameth the Arrians Nouatians Macedonians and Eunomians Supr Trip. Hist. lib. 9. cap. 36. Thus much for the credite of Socrates nowe to the matter where Bristowe saith he counted it a point of forren Lordship to expell the Nouatians c it is false But he sheweth the cause why Celestinus coulde not preuaile to doe any good with them his wordes are Verumillos invidia corripuit Romano episcopaiâ— iam olim perinde atque Alexandrino vltra Sacerdotii limites ad externum dominaiâ—m progresso But enuie tooke hold of them because the Bishoprik of Rome long before euen as the Bishoprike of Alexandria was proceeded beyond the bandes of Priesthoode into forren Lordship Finally that Socrates blameth the immoderate authoritie of S. Chrysostom he doth it not alone but other writers as much as he Socrates reporteth more of his seuerity toward his own cleargie theÌ„ toward the NouatiaÌ„s of whoÌ„ he was counted too much a fauourer therfore Socrates writeth that some iudged that he was iustly deposed Eo quòd multas Ecclesias Novatianorum QuartodecimanoruÌ„ aliorum tulisset haereticorum Because he had borne with many Churches of the Nouatians Quartodecimanes and other heretikes Trip. Hist. lib. 10. cap. 20. Last of all whereas I alledged againste the Popes supremacie the decree of the Aphrican councell Cap. 6. that no Bishoppe of the first see should be called highest Priest or Prince of Priests but onely Bishop of the first see Bristowe saith it perteyneth onely to the Primates of Affrica and concerneth not the titles much lesse the primacie of the Bishop of Rome But the trueth is that it was made specially to represse the ambition of the Romane Prelates and therfore in the end of the Canon as it is conteined in the decrees Dist. 99. cap. Primae it is added Vniversalis autem nec etiam Romanus pontifex appâ—lletur and let none no not the Bishop of Rome be called vniuersall By which it is manifest that his titles and authoritie also are commanded to be kept within their owne bounds and not to be acknowledged to haue any thing to doe in the Churches of Affrica by commandement or authoritie such as then was claymed But the Affricanes saith Bristowe as appeareth in Saint Augustines workes neuer called him Bishop of the first see but Bishop of the Apostolike see Although Saint Augustines workes can not bee witnesse howe the Affricanes called him alwayes yet what gayneth the Pope or Bristowe for him by this What if they neuer called him primate or Bishop of the first see for other inferior Bishoppes were called Bishoppes of the second see The councel forbadde them to giue any other titles of authoritie beside this Bishop of the first see it did not binde them that they should of necessitie call them by that title For it was sufficient to cal them the Bishops of Carthage of Alexandria of Rome of Antioche c. And that they called the Romane Prelate Bishop of the Apostolike see of Rome they gaue him no more authoritie ouer the Churches of Affrica then when they called the Bishop of Hierusalem Antioch Ephesus Corinth or of any other Churches founded by the Apostles Bishoppe of the see Apostolike Thus my Doctours for any thing Bristowe can bring remaine constant witnesses of my side against the vsurped and Antichristian authoritie of the Bishop of Rome 2 About onely faith I quoted Ambrose Origen and Cyprian for iustification by faith only To this Bristowe answereth first generally that hath satisfied these Doctors Cap. 8. Par. 4. that they meane a man may be iustified by faith although before he was a Christian Catholike he did no good works But he cannot so escape for they speake not only of the first conuersion of a man but of iustification vnto saluation of euerie faithfull man according to the example of Abraham and Dauid who both had good workes yet were not iustified by them before God but by theyr faith only And Saint Paule expressely saith of himselfe and all other Christians that were in his time that shal be in all times that the example of Abrahams iustification is the example of his and their iustification Rom. 4. Therefore his faith was imputed to him for righteousnesse and it is not written for him onely that it is imputed to him but also for vs vnto whoÌ„ it shal be imputed which beleeue in him that raised vp Iesus from the dead who was deliuered for our sinnes and raysed againe for our iustification I wish that Bristow in the next conference that he maketh after the reading hereof would marke this text with the circumstances of the persons of whom it is spoken of the temps in which the holy Ghost speaketh that faith shal be imputed for righteousnes In the meane time I must proue that these fathers speake generally of all Christians and the only way of iustification and not of newe conuerts only and of the instinct of their baptisme or newe conuersion onely but that they are iustified by faith vnto eternall saluation First Origen after he had brought the example of the theefe iustified by faith only bringeth in the example of the sinnfull woman Luk. 7. Ex nullo legis opere sed pro sola fide ait ad eam remit 〈…〉 ur tibi peccata tua iteruÌ„ fides tua saluam te fecit c. For no worke of the lawe but for faith only he saith vnto her Thy sinnes are forgiuen thee And againe thy faith hath
as they write of be orderly successions By the time of these Fathers saith Bristowe there had bene foure schismes Ar. 85. Aunswere In the first proposition I speake of Tertullians time and succession of doctrine and name succession simplie In the second proposition I speake of the whole time vntill our dayes and of succession of persons and of orderly succession therefore no contradiction The fourth It continued at that time in the doctrine of the Apostles it retained by succession that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Pur. 373. 374. Contra he chargeth it with sundrie errors here cap. 3. 4 namely P. Liberius with Arianisme P. Innocentius for housling of Insantes and eight Popes for the supremacie I might aunswere that the charging of the Popes chargeth not the Church but in the first proposition I spake of the Church of Rome in the time of Irenaeus and Tertullian holding the doctrine of the Apostles contrarie to those heresies against which they write The fift It was a true Church and Apostolike Church a faithfull Church true and Apostolike faith and religion haue dwelled in her Pur. 374. Ar. 79. Contra The Church of Rome neuer preached the trueth She neuer had since she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christes institution The true Catholike Church hath ouerthrowen heresies of all sortes But the Popish Church was neuer able to encounter with heretikes Rome may be a nurse of Antichristi 〈…〉 ns but neuer did good to Christians I am able to proue that the primitiue Church affirmed your Church to be the Church of Antichrist Ar. 85. 16. 106. 10. 27. The latter part of this contradiction with as many falsifications as there be quotations doe sufficiently declare that in all those places I speake of the Popishe Church of Rome that nowe is and not of the true Church which of olde time was at Rome Yet to giue the reader a taste of his falsification of my wordes Ar. 106. which hee rehearseth thus Rome may be a nurse c. in truth they are these Rome which feedeth her babes with poison of mans traditions in steade of the milke of Gods worde and will rather see them famish than they should taste of Gods worde may well bee a nurse of Antichristians but neuer did good vnto Christians The sixt The Popish Church is a puddle of all false doctrine and heresie whereof the whore beareth a cuppe full out of which all nations haue dronke Ar. 102. 38. Euen from the Apostles â—ime the diuell neuer left to set in his foote for his sonne Antichristes dominion vntill he had placed him in the temple of God and prepared the wide world for his walke and then came the generall defection Pur. 287. Contra all nations neuer consented to the doctrine of the Papistes For it hath bene often saide the Greeke Church and all other Orientall Churches of Assa and Africa neuer receiued the Popish religion in many chiefe points and specially in acknowledging the Popes authoritie they will not vnto this day acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike nor her authoritie to be lawfull Ar. 38. 16 33. 34. These places being both full of falsifications yet if they had bene in so many wordes set downe by me imploy no contradiction For it may be that all nâ—tions meaning as the scripture whose wordes I cite Apoc. 18. not all of euerie nation but some of all nations haue dronke of the whores cup and yet neuer receiued her religion in al things And the general defection is meant of that great apostasie that S. Paul speaketh of in which the greatest number shall fall from Christ though they fall not all to the Pope For many are fallen to Mahomet many reuolted to idolatrie many to other heresies beside Poperie The 7. The religion of Papistes came in and preuailed in the yere of our Lord 607. in which the Pope first obtained his AntichristiaÌ„ exaltatioÌ„ to wit Boniface the third of Phocas the Emperor that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the heade of all the Church Ar. 36. Contra in the same place Because you speak of the first entring of Popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie it first beganne to aduaunce it selfe in Victor about the yeare of our Lord 200. What contradiction is here Popish religion in one piece first beganne to aduaunce it selfe Anno 200. and after came in and preuailed Anno 607. The 8. The Popish Church is a puddle of all false doctrine and heresie Euen in the Apostles time and from that time in all times when so euer and where so euer was any piece of myste or darke corner there were the steppes of your walke It may be a shame for you Papistes to leaue and condemne for heresie all that is true in the Fathers writings and agreeable to the scriptures Ar. 102. Pur. 287. 238. Contra Where he dictinguisheth the religion of the papistes from the great heresies and open aduersaries that sought to beate downe the chiefe foundations of Christian faith as the Valentinians Marcionistes Manichees Arrians Sabellians and such like monsters Ar. 43. He falsifieth my distinction which is not of the religion of the Papistes but of the first beginnings of such errors in the time of the auncient Fathers which among the Papistes are growne to be in manner as great as the monsters of Valentinians Marcionistes c. And yet there can be no contradiction where the subiectes of both propositions are not all one But here the one is of the Popish Church which is a member of the malignant congregation of Satan the other is of the religion of Papistes The Papistes by communion of the diuels Church communicate with all heresies The 9. We say not that the religion of Papistes came in soudenly but that it entred by small degrees at the first and therefore â—aâ—â—esse espied by the true Pastors being earnestly occupied against great heresies not preached against winked at because it had a shewe of Pietie and Charitie and at length allowed of Augustine and others who followed the common errors of their time Specially when a generall defection and departing from the faith was foreshewed what marueile were it if none colde preach against it as it first entred Ar. 43. 36. 38. Contra The Church of Christ in such places as she is suffereth no man damnablie abusing her religion without open reprehension Ar. 92. 36. 37. The former proposition hath manifest forgeries as that I should say The religion of papistes was not preached against c. Winked at c. Allowed of Augustine c. For I neuer said so of the whole religion of papists but of some fewe errors budding vp in antient times But both Ar. 36. where I aske What maruaile c. as an obiection I doe neuerthelesse shewe who preached against the vsurpation of the Bishop of Rome which yet tended not to a damnable error Ar. 38. I affirme there was both preaching
3 l. Iohn 3 194 25 l. Hierom ad Euagrium 196 14 l. rashnes 203 36 authoritie l. austeritie 205 10 l. he hath li. 35 instinct l anstant 209 10 sauour l. labour 229 29 function l. faction 230 3 l. not oppresse 242 23 as l. is li. 29 gra l. gent 263 38 impuration l. impanation 265 35 lake l. booke 281 28 inioyning l. enioying 282 1 l. Constātinus line 3 l. Melciades li. 5. l. de vita 285 19 sanctifieth l. saith 287 3 l. seeing 298 19 computatiō l. translation 299 2 novve l. not 301 25 teacheth l. toucheth 302 20 l. Midrash 309 6 l. conueniencie 311 2 harpe l. harde 321 3 there l. three 332 30 priests l. praises 338 35 l. vvhich in such sense 350 5 but l. by 353 35 like by l. by and by 356 13 l. looke it by 357 29 l. Iupiter Corinthius and li. 31 Xanthicus 358 9 chap l. point 361 38 accept l. excepting 352 24 l. but seeing 361 12 held l. geld 387 26 Sacraments l. Sacramentaries 388 7 that l. the 388 31 l. Mat Hom 11 402 15 l. priests and li. 29 as long 408 10 l. Seraphicall li. 14 l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 413 12 l. determinasset 431 13 l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 437 21 protest l. protect 442 31 vvorke l. vvant 446 13 stranger l. strong 449 31 l. vvorke In 32 l. mysteries yet 450 34 l. Gennadius 456 3 nor l. or 460 36 l. of Terah 461 17 l. not to be 464 8 l. benedectione 472 25 l. put out as 473 11 l. a pledge 33 partly l. but Sander saith 477 16 yea l. vve 498 12 flesh l. fish 500 22 l. faithfully 506 4 l. may be 512 32 l. chapter being moued by 33 l. his spirituall 518 32 his l. this 528 put out oftē 536 9 vve l. ye 556 18 l. 1500 years ago 557 29 l. sufficiently 558 8 l. should not 563 16 l figuratiue 568 19 l. tokens 572 9 l. as Angels 610 1 l. our 611 7 specially l. figuratiuely 634 20 l but in 639 23 put out vvhich 651 6 l. Sedulius 2. 12 corrupt l. count 18 holy l. vnholy 667 24 l. times 669 24 they l. that 676 27 offences l. oftennes 678 9 l. Gennadius 682 13 to the earth l. on earth 678 17 eating l. entring 695 13 Ephes 3 l. Constantinople 698 3 after the bodie put in these vvords Members of Christ your mysterie is set on the table you li. 5 after subscribe put in these vvords Thou hearest therefore the bodie of Christ and do est ansvvere amen 699 6 l. of a 708 1 once l. ours 713 17 or l. of 21 dy l. by 717 26 apposeth l. opposeth 726 7 for Sander l. Ievvel 8 after eaten put in Sander 737 22 promised l. performed 741 27 alteri l. atteri 30 halteri l atteri 37 vvashing l. vvasting 754 34 l. at VVittenberg 16 death l. deitie 766 37 l. of bread 776 29 this l. these A REIOYNDER TO BRISTOWES REPLY IN DEFENCE OF ALLENS SCROLL OF ARTICLES AND BOOKE OF PVRGATORIE By W. F. D. in diuinitie The first Chapter I will shew briefely that Fulke confesseth out of the true Church to be no saluation FVlke hath alwayes beleeued since god gaue him knowledge of his trueth therefore freely confessed that out of the true Church of Christ there can be no saluation But whereas Bristowe inferreth that it is openly practized in the Popish Church to take in men by Baptisme first and then by reconciliation to receiue them if any went out or were cast out thereby to insinuate that the Popish Church is the true Church it is an argument voyde of al consequens For if the ceremoniall outward practise of baptisme reconciliation were able to proue the practizers to bee the true Church not onely the papistes but all other sects of heretikes practizing the same should be the true Church This is the first argument and as good as the best he maketh to proue the heresie of Popery to be the true Church of Christ. CAP. II. That he confesseth the knowne Church of the first 600 yearès after Christ and the knowne members thereof I beleeue that the Church of Christ hath continued from the Apostles vnto this day and shall doe from henceforth to the ende of the worlde And I do confesse that for 600. yeares and more after Christ the doctrine of saluation in all necessarie articles was taught in the knowne and visible Church although with all in the later times was receiued much corruption I acknowledge also the auncient writers Bishops Emperors and Monkes of those times to haue beene members of the same visible Church But whereas Bristowe saith to that I adde of the late Emperors I signifie that I meane the Emperors Constantine Iouian Valentinian c. to haue beene such as I woulde wish for I aunswere he is no good interpreter of my meaning For although in comparison of the later Emperors they were much more excellent yet I neuer ment to acknowledge them to be such as I would wishe for For both in the religion and in their manners diuers thinges are founde which I woulde wish had beene more agreeable to the worde of God yet were they in their time very godly and Christian Princes holding the foundation of Christ. I hope to their eternall saluation Other bymatters there be in this Chapter in which I am carped of Bristowe First that ignorantly I affirme somewhere namely Purg. 371. that the controuersie betwene the Britains and Saxons about the celebration of Easter was the same that was betweene Victor Bishoppe of Rome and the Christians of Asia whereas I saide they defended a ceremonie receiued of the East Church euen as the East church did long before against Victor 〈◊〉 of Rome for they defende it by example and authoritie of S Iohn the Euangelist Bed hist. lib. 3. cap. 25. and so did the Asians Euseb. lib. 5. Cap. 24. Secondly where I saye that Athanasius and a fewe other that were banished and persecuted were the true Catholike Church he noteth in the margent such is his skill in the story of that time Belike he is offended that I say they were but a fewe that tooke parte with Athanasius How smal or great my skill is in the storie of that time Bristows practise of logike is but little which remembreth not that many fewe are relatiues and spoken in comparison I say againe they were but few in comparison of the Arrians that tooke parte with Athanasius against his aduersaries whē he was banished How many councels helde the Arrians in the East against the trueth The Emperor himselfe infected with the heresie let the worlde iudge where the greater shewe of multitude was with the Emperor and with the councels or with Athanasius and his fautors Yea when Liberius Bishop of Rome in the West had subscribed to the same heresie of the Arrians
Constantius after both his brethren were deade ruled both in the East and the West what thinke you was the vaunting multitude of the Arrian faction insulting against the true Christians calling them heretikes Homousians Athanasians c Vincentius Lyrinensis saith Arrianorum veneâ—â—â— non iam portiunculam quandam sed penè totum orbem contaminauerat adeâ—ut prope cunctis latini sermonis episcopis partim vi partim fraude deceptis caligo quaedam mentibus offunderetur The poyson of the Arrians had defiled not nowe a little portion but almost all the worlde insomuch that almost all the Bishops of the Latine speach partly by force partly by fraude being deceiued a certaine myst couered their minds You see what skill this proude censor hath of the hystorie of that time Last of all he saith I make a proper distribution the Popes of all ages to be theirs and yet the Apostles and doctors to be mine But he maketh an vnproper application of the name of Popes to the Bishops of Rome of al ages where as a great number of the most auncient were godly men and of true religion members of the same Church wherof the Apostles and Doctors were and not antichristian tyrants as the later sort of degenerated bishops haue shewed themselues to be I doe not meane to prosecute euery trifling matter after this manner but to let the reader see by these fewe what great pyth is in his marginall notes and friuolous quarels CAP. III. That he confesseth the foresaide true Church to haue made so playnely with vs in verie many of the same controuersies of this time that he is fayne to holde that the true Church may erre and also hath erred but not his Caluinicall Church I confesse indeede that the Popish Church holdeth some errors that were helde within the compasse of 600. yeares but them not verie many nor the greatest controuersies nor vniuersally helde in all that time but in the later part of it onely nor with such poyson of pernicious errors as they are now holdeÌ„ by the Papists Also I confesse that the true Church may erre and hath erred yea euen that Church whereof Caluin was a teacher and that Caluin himselfe in some things both might erre and did erre although Bristow like a scoffing parasite doth except the same But where he chargeth me to confesse sometime also the long continuing of the Church in incorruption thereby to conuince me of contradiction I answere if he charge me with confessing the continuing of the Church in incorruption for 600. yeares next after Christ hee lyeth in his throat I neuer confessed any such continuance If I had affirmed that it continned after the first planting in incorruption for a long season I might say without contradiction that afterward it was corrupted with diuers errors which I haue so proued that Bristowe himselfe cannot deny them But I must follow his sectioÌ„s of this Chapter The first part that the true Church may erre I confesse the true Church may erre The seconde part that the true Church did also erre and in the same poyntes as we doe nowe erre in 1. Where he chargeth them with many pointes together I confesse the true Church did also erre and in some of those pointes that you nowe erre in although they nothing so grosly as you Those many abuses and corruptioÌ„s which I confessed to haue entred into the Church immediatly after the Apostles time which the diuel planted as a preparatiue for Antichrist I did not meane to bee many pointes of Poperie and therefore are heere fraudulently foysted in to vrge my confession further then it stretcheth by my meaning By Antichrist in deed I meane the Pope as the chiefe head of that mis-shapen body to whome I confesse that the Arrian Sabellian Nestorian and al other old heresies were a preparatiue althogh he directly acknowledge theÌ„ not but hath his heresie or rather apostasie compacte of all errors in that he is an aduersarie both to the person and office of our sauior Christ. Particular errors that I confesse to haue beene taken of the Gentiles or heretikes he numbreth 8. The signe of the crosse from the Valentinians Oblations for the dayes of birth and death from the Gentiles prescripte times of fasting immoderate extolling of sole life in the ministers of the Church from the Montanistes Manichees Tacianistes Prayer for the dead of the Montanistes purgatorie fier from the Origenistes Hierom almost condemning of seconde mariages from Tertullian The name of sacrifice from the Gentiles Also in the later writers inuocation of sainctes prayers for the dead and diuerse superstitious and superfluous ceremonies confessed by me to be maintained 2 As touching Vigilantius and inuocation of Sainctes by it selfe I confesse that Ambrose Augustine and Hierom helde inuocation of Sainctes to bee lawfull which is an error 3 As touching Iouinian of fasting of Virginities merite of Votaries Mariage If Iouinian contemned Christian fastes he erred neyther doe we take his part therein nor yet in making mariage equall with virginitie in all respectes For the mariage of Votaries Bristowe vrgeth me with no confession but I charge him with a shameles falsification of my wordes which he pretendeth to rehearse as a great absurditie Purg. 402. We neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent from our doctrine Neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Berengarius when they agree therewith But my wordes are these Seeing God himselfe is the father of that doctrine which wee haue receyued by his holy worde we neither boast vppon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Berengarius when they agree therewith 4 As touching Ceremonies I confesse they had many superfluous Ceremonies yea such as the Papistes them selues haue not for the most parte 5 As touching Purgatorie and prayer for the dead I acknowledge that prayer for the dead is an auncient error the opinion of purgatory in the Latine church is not so olde by many hundred yeares in the Greke Church it was neuer receiued What he saith of particular Doctors and their particular times for it I say that most of the particular Doctors from the time of Montanus haue bene infected with the error of praying for the deade but none to bee shewed before him The time of the first Nicen Councell Bristow saith is inough for any Christian man Who euer hearde such a blockish reason If the Nicen Councel had decreed prayers for the dead to be vsed without the authoritie of the holy scriptures it had not bene inough for any Christian man to beleeue The Nicen Councel made the Bishop of Alexandria equal with the Bishop of Rome which the Papistes will not allowe cap. 6. The same councel decreed that men should stand and not kneele in publike prayers yet is no man bound to this decree neither doe the Papistes themselues obserue it Cap. 20.
But my ignorance is noted of Bristow for saying that superstition was riper in the Latine Church where the seate of Antichrist was appointed to be set vp not knowing that all the olde heresies haue spronge of the Grekes against whome were helde the first foure generall Councels A pithie reason shewing no lesse Logike then knowledge of the Churche storie Foure heresies were condemned by foure councels therefore all olde heresies sprong of the Grecians But I will aske of Bristowe whether Nouatus or Nouatianus captaine of the Nouatians was of the Latine or Greeke Church Iouinian Vigilantius are counted of him to be as great heretikes as Arrius and Macedonius but whence did they spring out of Greece or frō the Latines What shall I name the Donatistes Pelagians Celestians Priscillianistes al which sprange out of the Latine Church And yet it is true that Vincentius affirmeth that vntill the dayes of Stephanus the Bishoppes of the Romaine Church had alwayes earnestly defended the integritie of religion once receiued which he speaketh not as a singular prayse of that Church only for he saith of the same matter immediately before Exemplis talibus plena sunt omnia All places are full of such examples And that which Bristow citeth out of Ruffinus in exp Symb that no heresie did spring at Rome is to be vnderstode onely of such heresies as he speaketh of before against the danger of which some clauses were added to the creede For otherwise Ruffinus could not forget what hee him selfe had translated out of Eusebius lib. 6. cap. 33. of Nouatus which being a Priest of the Church of Rome was author of the heresie of the Nouatians 2 What he sayeth of the whole Church in some of those times I say the practise of prayer for the dead is not generall because it is not to be founde in the most auncient times Bristow asketh if nothing be generall but that I finde as though he could find any thing for 200 yeares but in Tertullian the Montanist But the later practise for places he sayeth is generall if I should vrge him to proue it he could not do it I confesse it was common but for all the later time it was not generall The Waldenses for 500. of the last yeares practised it not and almost in euery age some are noted which regarded it not or denyed it 3. To what Origen he confesseth the doctors to referre it to witte vnto scripture and tradition of the fathers I confesse that some of the fathers referre the custom of praying for the dead to the Scriptures and some to the tradition of the Apostles but neither of both truely Bristowe compareth the case with fasting wherof Augustine sayeth that it is euidently commaunded in scripture but the dayes not prescribed So is prayer for the dead but the dayes times and particular prayers are referred to the tradition I aunswere when we see as good scripture for prayer for the dead as wee see for fasting we will say the cases are like How Tertullian denyed prayer and oblation for the dead to be taken out of the scriptures is referred to the ninth Chapter where it shall be answered But he is fayne to denye sayeth Bristowe the most certeine workes of the Apostles schollers Clemens Romanus and Dionysius Areopagita saying that we haue them of some counterfaiting knaue c. quoting for my saying Pur. 268. which I desire the reader to peruse and tell mee how honest a man he is that chargeth a man to say of the works of Clemens and Dionyse that which I speake onely and expressely of the counterfeit epistles of Clemens Concerning the change of the olde Liturgies we shall heare more in the sixt Chapter 4 He contraiewise feareth not nor basheth not to say they had it from the diuell and his lymmes I see no cause why I should feare or bash to affirme that all errours came from the diuell who is a lyer and the father of lyes Neither is it any absurditie to saye that the yerely oblations of thanksgiuing for the dead are heathenish as well as the oblations for the birthes But it is an impudent slaunder that he chargeth mine owne mouth to confesse that the whore of Babylon is the church at the farthest by S. Augustines time which hath patched vp her purgatory sacrifices for the dead for purgatorie and sacrifice for the dead was scarse hatched in S. Augustines time when Augustine him selfe confessed it might be doubted whether there be any such purging fire or no. 5. As touching the Popes supremacy Concerning the Popes primacy he chargeth mee to teach that the Church vanished quite away vpon a souden when Phocas sold the primacie to Bonifacius and yet no man then in the worlde that went out from the Pope The first point is a shamelesse slaunder for I neuer taught that the church vanished quite away the second is true if it be rightly vnderstood no man went from the Pope as from a true member of the church but the Pope rather went out of the church into an antichristian tyrannie But vnderstanding his saying to be that no man departed from the Popes authoritie it is vtterly false for notwithstanding the sale of Phocas the Greeke church neuer yelded to his supremacie The church of Rauenna in Italy long time after withstoode his tyranny and was separated from him in causa autocephalias that shee would haue no head ouer her but he◠owne bishop as the histories affirme Bristowe to excuse the Pope for doing contrarie to Gregories reproofe of the bishop of Constantinople sayeth that he neuer vseth the style of vniuersall bishop but of s 〈…〉 seruorum the seruant of seruants as though it was for the bare style and vsurpation of the title that Gregorie was so earnest and not for the vniuersall authoririe which was claimed by that style in which respect Gregory of humilitie the rest of his successors of hypocrisie called them selues seruants of the seruants of God Now at length Bristowe alledgeth three causes of this his tedious rehearsall of my sayings first that the reader may see in how many points we dissēt frō them whome we confesse to haue bene of the true church I answer so long as we agree in the foundation we are all of one church The second cause that the reader may see I confesse the Papistes to agree with them of the true church in the same A great glorie that you agree with them in a fewe errors and dissent in the most waightie matters of saluation Thirdly that I haue not for these points or any depēding of these iust cause to denye the Papists the true church c. If you erred onely in these points as they did holding all other trueth which those auncient fathers helde wee woulde no more deny you to be members of the true church than wee do them but seeing beside these errors you hold many blasphemous heresies which they neuer helde and
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or substantia substance comprehending both bodies and spirits not that euer they thought that angels spirites soules of men had visible and circumscriptible bodyes such as may be set forth by painting or such as the bodies of men beastes are or that they consisted either of ayery of fyery matter as that blynd Bishopp so imagined out of that verse of the Psalme 104. He maketh his Angels spirits and his ministers a burning fyer Last of all he sayeth there is no determination of the Church to condemne the assertion as heretical thoughe there be sufficient to count it temerarious erronious whither it be hereticall I will not nowe dispute seeing by Bristowe it is granted to be an errour I haue sufficiently proued that it was mainteined by the whole Councell which was as much as I required for that point 2 Touching the Popes superioritie ouer the Councell The determinations of the Pope and of the generall Councell being accompted among the Papistes as the rules of trueth I sayde are 63. and 85. for so much as it is not agreed of among them which of them is superior to other the Pope ouer the Councell or the Councell ouer the Pope that one of these hath controlled the other there can be no certeintie of trueth in either of them To this Bristow answereth that he thinketh him selfe able to satisfie me or any other reasonable man if he saith that then we are in a right beliefe when we hold those determinations that are the determinatioÌ„s iointly both of the Pope of the Councel as those of Trent But he is gretly deceiued for while it is in doubt whether may erre ech part chargeth other with erring it may be there is none other likelyhod to the contrary but that they do both erre so that neither I nor any other reasonable maÌ„ may safely tye our faith to any of their determinatioÌ„s For they wherof either part may err being seuered may also erre but when they are ioyned together you will say the Councels determination is vncerteine except it be coÌ„firmed by the Pope But if the Pope also may erre how is it made certein by his confirmation Another wil say the Popes determination is vncerteine except the general councel giue consent approbation therto But if the general councel may err what certeintie is in the approbatioÌ„ therof So the doubt is as great as it was before wher Brist affirmeth that no man wil bind vs to beliue the determinatioÌ„s of any Councel that are not certeinly coÌ„firmed by the Pope he sayeth more then he is able to warrant for beside that D. Cole in his answere to the Bishop of Sarum manifestly defendeth the authoritie of the councels against the Pope many popish diuines were and are of that opinion that the Pope may erre and is vnder the authoritie of the councell But where I shewe a manifest errour in the popish church by the interchangeable condemning and approuing one of another of the Pope and the councell Bristowe sayeth the matter is not so vncerteine amongest them as I make it For first he graunteth that the councell of Ferrara and Florence determined that the Pope was aboue the councell and that the councell might erre and that Pope Eugenius 4. was of the same iudgement He graunteth also that the councels of Constance and Basil determined the contradictorie namely that the councell was aboue the Pope and that the Pope may erre But where I sayde that Martinus quintus chosen Pope by the councell of Constance was of the same iudgement there he cryeth hoe you proue not that nor neuer shall proue No shal Maister Bristow why sir is it like that the councell which had deposed three Popes would choose a fourth man Pope that was of a contrary iudgement vnto them Yea how coulde he accept the Papacie beeing not voide if the councell had not authoritie to depose the Pope whosoeuer hee was of the three that was the right Pope But seeing Iohn the 23. was of the Emperour and the councell accounted the right Pope who also before his deposition affirmed that the councell of Constance was a most holy councell and could not erre it is manifest that this Martyn beeing a Cardinall consented to the deposition of Iohn the 23. session 12. therefore he was of the same iudgement that the councell was But if you would saye that as soone as he was made Pope the spirite of Peter comming vpon him he was soudenly changed into a contrary iudgement his Epistle written to the inquisitors is plainly against you where you saye that at the petition of the Polonian Ambassadour he confirmed 〈…〉 ose determinations alone of the councel of ConstaÌ„ce which were 〈…〉 ainst the errours of Wickeliefe Hus and Hierom of Prage 〈…〉 or he did so generally confirme all decrees of that 〈…〉 uncell that he commaunded it to be enquired of persons suspected in articles as followeth Item vtrum credat teneat asserat quòd quodlibet concilium generale 〈…〉 am Constantiense vniuersalem Ecclesiam repraesentet Item whether he beleeue holde and affirme that euery generall councell and namely the councell of Constance doeth represent the vniuersall churche If Martyn the 5. would haue euery man to beleeue that the councell of Constance representeth the vniuersall church he would also haue them beleeue that the councell of Constance cannot erre which councel condemned the Pope of heresie and deposed him of his Papacye Again another Article Item vtrum credat quòd illud quod sacrum concilium Constantiense vniuersalem Ecclesiam repraesentans 〈…〉 probauit approbat in fauor em fidei ad salutem anima 〈…〉 m quod hoc est ab vniuersis Christi fidelibus approbandum 〈…〉 endum Et quid condemnauit condemnat esse fidei vel 〈…〉 nis moribus contrarium hoc ab iisdem esse tenendum pro condemnato credendum asserendum Also whether hee beleeueth that that which the holy councell of Constance representing the vniuersall Church hath approued and doth approue in fauour of the faith to the health of mens soules that the same is of all faithfull Christians to be approued and holden And that which it hath condemned and doth condemne to be contrary to faith or good manners that the same is of them to be holden beleeued and affirmed as a thing condemned But the councell of Constance approued this assertion that the councell cannot erre and that the councell is aboue the Pope to condemne him of error which is a matter greatly pertaining to the faith the health of mens soules therefore Pope Martyn the 5. was of the iudgement of the councell of Constance Finally in the end of the councell of Constance the approbation of Pope Martyn is recorded of all things decreede â—nd determined in matters of faith Among which wee must needes account this question of the Popes erring and the councels not erring which is accompted so
not say that S. Paul might be deceiued in his writings epistles no more may the Church be I answere if S. Paul had proceeded further in prophecying then according to such knowledge as he had by reuelation argumentation out of the scriptures he might haue erred That he did not erre in his writings it was not because it was impossible for him to erre but because he did write nothing but that he had either by reuelation of Iesus Christes spirit or by argumentation out of the holy scriptures And therfore except the church haue such warrant as the Apostles elders had by reuelation the Scriptures Act. 15. she cannot truely say It hath beene thought good to the holy ghost vs. The 3. text is Ar. 88. where I saye It is true that S. 〈…〉 gustine saith euen the whole Church is taught to say 〈…〉 ry day Forgiue vs our trespasses But why so saith 〈…〉 stow because the whole Church doth erre in her de 〈…〉 minations euery day It were ridiculous so to say 〈…〉 t Augustine speake for vs both Propter quasdam igno 〈…〉 tias infirmitates membrorum suorum for certaine ig 〈…〉 rances and infirmities of her members The whole 〈…〉 urch for the ignorance of her members must say for 〈…〉 ue vs our debts but the whole Church neede not say 〈◊〉 except she may be deceiued through the ignorance of 〈…〉 r members therefore the whole church may be decei 〈…〉 d Apostles and al which did not erre in their writings 〈…〉 d determinations because it was impossible for them 〈◊〉 to doe whatsoeuer they had written or determined 〈…〉 t because in their writings and determinations they 〈…〉 ere directed by such reuelation as they had according 〈◊〉 the holy scriptures The 4 text is that the whole synagogue did erre but 〈…〉 ot the Church of Christ and that but in a fact not in 〈…〉 octrine nor the whole synagogue but a peece onely 〈…〉 hich was the example of Dauid carying the Arke of 〈…〉 od vpon a newe Chariot which should haue ben cary 〈…〉 d vpon mens shoulders 1. Chron. 13. So that there be no 〈…〉 sse then three walles saith Bristow betweene the Church 〈…〉 nd your shotte But by the grace of God I will shewe 〈…〉 hat they are al but paper walles that are erected against the trueth of â—od to binde it to the persons or places of men First saith Bristowe it was the synagogue and not the Church of Christ. Why Bristow was not the Church of Christ before Christ came into the flesh at least remember that S. Paul writeth 1. Cor. 10. Al our fathers were baptised and communicated with the bodie and bloude of Christ or else finde vs some other way of saluation then in the bodie of Christ whose member whosoeuer is not is sure of damnation or say that the Iewes being the members of the bodie of Christ were not the Church of Christ. The second wal that this was a fact and no doctrine is soone blowne downe if wee doe consider that the fact had neuer beene attempted but that it was tho 〈…〉 lawfull and Godly which was an error in doctrine The thirde wal is That the whole synagogue erred noâ— For he did not consult with the priest saith Bristow w 〈…〉 with his Tribunes Centurions nobles but onely w 〈…〉 the Lordes temporall hereupon he noteth my be 〈…〉 ly blindnesse but much rather may I note his m 〈…〉 strous and more then beastly impudence where the 〈◊〉 according to his own vulgar translation addeth to th 〈…〉 whom he nameth Et ait ad omnem coeâ—um Israel and 〈◊〉 the whole congregation of Israel If it please you quoâ— he and if the motion be of God let vs sende vnto 〈◊〉 rest of our brethren in all the coastes of Israel and 〈◊〉 the priestes and Leuits which dwell in the suburbs of the ciâ—ies that they may be gathered vnto vs c. These saith Bristowe were as you woulde say the hedge priestes Very well ergo all the heade priestes were present For otherwise howe coulde it be a perfect congregation of Israel where there wanted the principall members of the priests and Leuites for their tribe and degree And when he saith let vs sende to the rest of our brethren and those which he sent to of that degree were none but 〈◊〉 it were hedge Priestes as Bristowe affirmeth who will doubt but the chiefe Priestes were present except hee thinke they were not brethren vnto the rest But three monethes after saith Bristowe hauing founde out his error he gathered not onely all Israel â—â—d Ierusalem but also the sonnes of Aaron Sadoc and Abiathar c. 〈◊〉 though they were no part of Israel But these saith Bristowe he gathered as two Bishoppes and six other as it were Archdeacons and said vnto them You that are the heades of the Leuiticall families prepare your selues with your brethren and bring the Arke of our Lorde God of Israel to the place which is dressed for it least that as before because you were not present our Lord did smâ—te vs so nowe also it happen for our vnlawfull doing The words that Bristowe taketh holde off in his vulgar translation are that these principall priestes and Leuâ—tes were not present which as before it is proued 〈…〉 e so are they not in the Hebrew text LO ATTâ—M No◠〈…〉 the verbe is vnderstood which is in the senteÌ„ce before 〈…〉 t omitted which now they were commaunded to do 〈…〉 t is to carie the Arke So the sense is because you did 〈◊〉 carie it and not because you were absent For beside 〈…〉 t hath beene saide before of all the cheefe Priestes in 〈…〉 nerall howe coulde it be saide that Aminadab one of 〈◊〉 sixe was absent when the Arke was first brought 〈…〉 t of his house who if he had not ben deceiued should 〈…〉 ue tolde the king of his error before The 5. text is Ar. 86. where I say the true and onely 〈…〉 rch of Christ can neuer be voide of Gods spirite and yeâ— she◠〈…〉 y erre from the trueth and be deceiued in some thingeâ— â—uen 〈…〉 there is no true Christian man that is voide of Gods spirite ye◠〈…〉 y euery true Christian erre c. This my sophisme saith 〈…〉 istowe consisteth in speaking confusely of Gods spi 〈…〉 e as though the gift of it were one in the whole church 〈…〉 d in euery particular true Christian man But I say 〈…〉 t cleane contrarie to that he chargeth me I distin 〈…〉 ish of the gift of the spirite of God concerning adop 〈…〉 n that is in euery one of the faithfull by which hee 〈◊〉 priuiledged from erring vnto damnation and the 〈…〉 rite of trueth which is not giuen in such measure ei 〈…〉 r to the whole Church or to euery member but that 〈…〉 ey may erre in some thinges though not finally in 〈…〉 atters necessarie vnto saluation As for the promise 〈…〉
Bristowe saith that may be and yet the Church not be in their sight a contemptible companie no more then the olde Romanes and Turkes are to vs though we contemne their religion I aunswere I speake of the contempt of the Church not of the persons of men which often times are great Emperors and princes of the world To the place Matth. 10. You shal be hated of all men 〈…〉 r my names sake Bristowe inferreth the company that 〈◊〉 hated is not alwayes contemptible I confesse neither â—id I bring that texte but to shewe the perpetuall hatred â—f the world against the Church But Cyprian writeth â—hat Decius was more patient to heare that an Emperor 〈…〉 as set vp against him then that an other priest should â—e ordeined at Rome in the place of Fabianus This saith â—ristowe was not contempt but of feare Although I â—eny not but tyrants feare the church of God more then â—hey haue cause in respect of their earthly kingdome 〈…〉 t it followeth not but they do also contemne it and 〈…〉 inke their power greater and their glorie superior vntâ— it And in the example of Decius his indignation was â—he greater because the base and contemptible compaâ—y of the Church as he esteemed them durst choose an â—ther Bishop after he had slaine Fabianus purposing to â—estroy the Church vtterly That I alledge 1. Cor. 1. Not many wise men c. He â—â—yeth it was so in the beginning of the Church but not â—lwayes And so I do blindly alledge the text againste â—y selfe Because afterwarde the text saith the wise themâ—â—lues and the strong were confounded that is to saye conuerted 〈◊〉 deede if confusion and conuersion be all one it is â—â—mewhat that you saye but howe will the text beare â—â—at beside the improprietie of the speach that God hath 〈…〉 osen the foolishe things of the worlde that he might â—onuert the wisemen and the weake that he might conâ—ert the strong Last of all God hath chosen the inno 〈…〉 e and contemptible things of the worlde and those â—hings which are not that he might destroy those things â—at are As you say to confound is to conuert so you here best saye to destroy is to saue or else you cannot â—â—rooue the multitude of wise noble and honourable â—ersons that God hath chosen to be greater then those â—hat are reiected As for the textes of Esay 60. 10. â—ited by you and mee speake of the spirituall glorye of the Church not deliuering her from the contemptof the worlde where and among whome shee is a stranger That the church was and also should become inuisiblâ— Concerning the inuisiblenes of the church Bristowe sayeth I alledge so as no sober man would so that â—elike he wil driue me to purge my self of drunkennesse as the Apostles were fainâ— to doâ— Act 2. But what saye 〈◊〉 not sounding of sobrâ—â—tie One while that the vniuersall church of Christ is not seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. And here he asketh if euery member be not in heaueÌ„ as the Apostle fayth Our conuersation is in heauen Phil. 3. and Peter the Apostle wâ—â— seene of all men I answere although men be seene iâ— earth yet their conuersation which is in heauen is not seene nor they them selues as they are in heauen with Christ which is our life Col. 3. ver 3. c. So much moâ—â— the vniuersall church being a spirituall coniunction oâ— all the members vnto Christ their head in heauen is noâ— to be seene with bodily eyes vpon earth But another while I say Ar. 80. it sufficeth that the church be knowne to Christ the head as he sayeth My sheepe heare my voice and I know them and to them yâ— be the members of the same body Here Bristowe quarelleth with me if your text import that it sufficeth to be knowne to the head why doe you iumble in the members afterward whether he be sober that vnderstandeâ—â— not a copulatiue proposition let wise men iudge And yet the text proueth as wel the sheepe to knowe one another by hearing Christes voice as Christe knowiâ—g them by his diuine election and prouidence But Bâ—â—stowe so great a craftes man of good conclusions d 〈…〉 deth this consequence Christ knoweth his sheepe 〈◊〉 the church forsooth may be inuisible and so he may for it is of his owne making and not of mine I had no more to proue but that Christ should not be head of an vnknowen body because he knoweth his owne body and the members knowe one another although neither he nor they be knowen vnto the worlde Yet another while I alledge that though not alway◠〈…〉 et at one certeine time it should become inuisible at 〈…〉 he comming of Antichrist or rather when Antichrist 〈…〉 at h preuailed I speake of the church in this world of the inuisiblenes vnto the wicked world what scripâ—ures haue you for that sayth Bristowe Ar. 27. 77. It â—as propheciâ—d that the church should flye into the Wildernesse The defection which saint Paul speaketh of concerning the churches inuisiblenesse I haue proâ—ed howe substantiall the argument is before Cap. 7. Par. 4. But nowe Bristowe opposeth scriptures to proue â—hat the church in the time of Antichrist should be both â—isible and vniuersall For there shal be preaching all the time of persecution by the true witnesses Apoc. 11. euen 1260. dayes or 42. monethes which commeth to three yeares and an halfe But after they be slaine and â—lye vnburied 3. dayes and an halfe which is also the time of Antichristes tyranny and the greatest ruffe of â—is crueltie who shall preache then openly against Antichrist for of such preaching we speake But lest you should imagine these dayes to be common dayes of 24. houres long as you seeme to doe of the 1260. dayes c. you may see that the inhabitants of the earth could not haue time to publish their death and send giftes c. in so short a season as three dayes and an halfe of naturall dayes account But you say the preaching shall be as generall as the persecution That cannot be of so smal 2 number of witnesses For that you quote Apoc. 14. pertaineth to the time of Antichristes consumption towarde the end and his final destruction for immediatly followeth the Angell shewing the fall of Babylon Last of all you obiect Apoc. 20. that the persecutors being in number as the sande of the Sea shall ouer the wide worlde compasse the campe of the faithfull the citie of God therfore the church shal be at the same time vniuersal super latitudinem terrae I doubt not but the church shal be vniuersall in her greatest straits dispersed ouer all the earth when shee is fled into the wildernes which signifieth her desolate condition not her place wout the world but neither of both is proued by the text before alledged For it followeth not although thâ— enimies with their multitude shall come
to be beleeued on euen as God And where the Apostle saith that God hath made Christ a propitiation through faith in his blood he meaneth not that we must beleue in the blood of Christ as it is a creature but that the death and blood-shedding of Christ is the meane of our reconciliation vnto God But the Nicene Creede Hieronyme contra Lucif vse the phrase of Credere in Ecclesiam to beleeue in the Church I answere they meane no more thereby then they which vse the distinction Credere in Deum Credere Deo Credere Deum which Bristowe saith hath deceiued me Augustine as Bristowe confesseth maketh it proper to God that we beleeue in him We beleeue not in Peter we beleeue not in Paule In Iohn 129. Neither saith the Nicene Creede or Hieronyme contrary thereto that we should put our whole trust and confidence in the Church but in God only Therfore although they speak otherwise then Augustine they meane not otherwise then he Ruffinus also in his exposition of the Creede writeth both plainly and effectually Sequitur namque post c. For it followeth after this saying The holy Catholique Church the remission of sinnes the resurrection of the bodie he saith not in the holy Catholique Church in the remission of sinnes in the resurrection of the fleshe For if he had added the preposition In the sense should haue bene made one and the same with the former articles But euen in those termes truly where faith is ordered of the diuinitie it is saide in God the father and in Christ his sonne and in the holy Ghost But in the rest where the speach is not of the Godhead but of creatures and the mysteries the preposition In is not added that it should be said we must beleeue in the holy Church but the holy Church not as God but as the Church gathered into God And that men should beleue that there is remission of sinnes not in the remission of sinnes that they should beleeue the resurrection of the body not in the resurrection of the body Therefore by this syllable of the Preposition the Creator is distinguished from the creatures and things diuine are separated from things humane Neuerthelesse Bristowe saith they beleue both in God in Christ and in his Saints and inuocate them all though not all alyke but then let him heare what Cyprian saith De duplici Martyrio Non credit in Deum qui non in eo solo collocat totius faelicitatis suae fiduciam He beleueth not in God which placeth not in him alone the hope of his whole felicity Whervpon it followeth that they which beleeue in saints place some part of their hope of felicite in thē not in God alone by his iudgment by the iudgment of the Apostle also beleeue not in God Where I said if Saints also are to be inuocated then God alone knoweth not the heartes of all men and God onely is not to be worshipped and serued and Christ is not our onely Mediatour and Aduocate Bristowe calleth it iangling without allegations I supposed these principles had bene sufficiently knowen to euerie learned Papist without allegations but seeing Bristowe will not take knowledge of them because he knoweth not how to shift his handes of them For the first my allegation shall be 1. Reg. 8. Salomon in his prayer sayth vnto God What prayers or supplications shal be made of any man or of all thy people Israel when euerie one shal knowe the plague in his own hart and stretche foorth his handes in this house Heare thou then in heauen in thy dwelling place and be merciful and doe and giue euery man according to all his wayes as thou knowest his heart for thou onely knowest the harts of al the children of men For the second that God only is to be worshiped and serued it is the saying of our sauiour Christ Math. 4. Luk 4. Thou shalt worship the Lorde thy God and him only shalt thou serue That Christe onely is our Mediator and Aduocate Saint Paule testifieth 1. Timoth. 2. there is but one God and one mediatour of God and men the man Iesus Christ in which place he speaketh of Prayer supplications intercessions c. to be made for all men And Saint Iohn 1. Ioh. 2. If any man sinne we haue an aduocate with the father Iesus Christ the righteous and he is the propitiation for our sins But saith Brist as I say to Ambrose others whom I confesse to be of the true Church so must I saie it to Saint Iohn Apoc. 1. for inuocating the holy Angells But I finde not that Iohn did inuocate the holy Angels in that place although the seuen spirites from whom he wisheth grace should not be the holy Ghost but Angels the ministers of the holy Ghost For he that prayeth that God will sende raine from heauen doth not inuocate heauen But I must saie the same to God him self for making an Angell to be worshiped as Apoc. 3. as he hath told me in the. 6. Chapiter where I haue told him mine answere likewise to the Angell Apoc. 8. Which made a perfume with the prayers of Saintes and to the 24. Seniors which had sweete odours that is prayers in bowles c. But there is no such neede the Angell Apoc. 8. representeth Christe the onely high priest that hath authoritie to stande at the altar in heauen and offer incense and to present the prayers of the Churche that they may be acceptable to God Heb. 13. The Elders are the Churche of God in the whole world whose prayers and supplications only our sauiour Christ maketh acceptable But it maketh nothing against our Mediatour to God saith Bristowe though we are and haue neuer so many Mediatours so that all make suite to God by him Then it maketh no matter howe many petie Gods we haue so one be principal as Plato taught Againe he saith it is nothing against God alone to be worshipped so that we worshippe none but for him If this were true it were lawfull to worship the Diuel because hee is Gods minister and hath great power vnder him yea our Sauiour Christ had not aunswered his temptation when he required to be worshipped as one that had all the glorie of the world committed by God to him to bestowe at his pleasure in saying it is written Thou shalt worship the Lorde thy God and him only shalt thou serue Last of all he saith it is nothing against God aboue to know our harts so that all others knowe them by him But Salomon reasoneth that God onely is to be called vpon because he onely knoweth the heartes of all men And where findeth Bristowe that all others or any one by God knoweth the heartes of all men To conclude the worde onely excludeth no more with Bristowe then he list to admitte by his blinde distinctions which if they may be permitted against the plaine sense and wordes of the Scriptures nothing shal be
breache whereof is not only by mariage but much more by fornication and vncleanes yea by continuall burning without actuall filthinesse which with Saint Paule is incontinence And yet the Papistes as though there were no way to breake such vowe but by marriage which is the best meane of chastitie for them that can not be chaste in single life crie out damnatioÌ„ only against married votaries affirming that infinite whoredoms and vncleanes are lesse breach of vow then marriage and the marriage of votaries to be no marriage Yet Saint Ambrose who counteth it an adulterie against Christe for a vowed virgine to marrie counteth the marriage of such a one in respect of her bodily husbande to be lawfull matrimony and a much lesse fault to enter into mariage then once to committe fornication Ad Virg. Laps Cap. 5. And more plainly Saint Augustine which counteth the mariages of such of whom the Apostle speaketh to be worse then adulteries in respect of the breache of theyr vowe made to Christ yet counteth them to be mariages and no adulteries and detesteth the separation of such married persons De bono Vidâ— Cap. 8. 9. 10. 11. Where Allen railing against our Bishops and as he termeth our disordered newe ministery saith that ere euer they be well warmed in theyr benisices they must for the most part as it were Annexum ordini haue a wife I answered Belyke Saint Paule taketh marriage to be so annexed to the order of an ecclesiasticall minister that he neuer describeth the perfect paterne of a Bishop or Deacon but one of the first pointes is that he be the husband of one wife Bristowe saith I alledge the text to salue our Bishops itching lust and more blasphemously speaketh Allen against our ministers marriage whom yet they account to be but laie men Where are they nowe that saye mariage is a naughty thing But concerning the terme of Annexum ordini although I saide in derision therof Belyke c. as before yet I ment not that it was necessary for euery perfect minister to be married but that none is more perfect then they that are married Notwithstanding some men considering that the Apostle requireth hospitality that is the charitable entertainment of poore straungers as a speciall vertue in a Bishoppe or minister of the Church thinke marriage to bee more conuenient then sole life for that degree because diuerse partes of hospitality of whiche Saint Paule maketh the washinge of the Saintes feete one and suche like are not conuenient but for women to exercise whome it were inconuenient that a Bishop should kepe in his house and not be a maried man But Bristowe will teache me to vnderstand what Saint Paule meaneth by the husband of one wife by conference of that place 1. Tim. 5. where he will haue a widowe to be chosen such a one quae fuit vnius viri vxâ—r as hath bene the wife of one husband so that he requireth in a Bishop Priest or Deacon to be made that he haue had only one wife Indeede Bristowe I learne by this conference that Saint Paule who knewe how to write his minde in Greeke although he had not spoken expresly of the behauiour of Bishops and Deacons wiues 1. Tim. 3. yet vsing the present temps in speaking of Bishops Elders and Deacons to be the husbande of one wife the preterperfect temps in speaking of widowes which haue had one husband did meane that he requireth such a one to be made Bishop Elder or Deacon which presently hath a wife and not which had a wife that at the time of their election were deade as the widowes husbande It behoueth a Bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be vnreprouable the husband of one wife sober c. except you will likewise say a Bishop must be such a one as hath bene sober c. although he be not so nowe Againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let Deacons be the husbandes of one wife And againe Tit. 1. â—i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if any man is vnreprehensible the husbande of one wife Therefore a Bishoppe Elder or Deacon may be he that hath a wife presently and not he that hath had one which is dead onely Moreouer I learne by conference of that place 1. Tim. 5. that Polygamie which is many wiues at one time is forbidden a Bishop and not second mariage as it hathben commonly and of olde time taken of many seeing there is no reason to exclude a poore widow from almes and office in the Church that hath liued continently with more husbands then one so that she haue kept her to one at one time But it is not meete that she should be elected to an office in the Church which hath bene an adulteresse or vnlawfully diuorced from her husband hath maried an other although she may be releeued by almes if she be penitent But Bristowe would haue men to marke it well that yet neuer from the Apostles time to this day any one Bishoppe or Prieste that is confessed to haue beene a good one did marrie afterwardes no not Iouinian him selfe Hee would faine if he durst say that no Bishoppe or Priest had a wife but that were easily refelled out of Eusebius and all auncient histories Clemens Alex. Strom. lib. 3. sheweth that the Apostles Peter and Philip had wiues and did beget children Also he saith of Saint Paule Vnius quoque vxoris virum utique admittit seu hoc Presbyter seu Diaconus seu Laicus viens matrimonio citra reprehensionem He alloweth the husband of one wife whether he be Elder or Deacon or lay man vsing matrimony without reprehension Seeing therefore he putteth no difference in respect of matrimony betweene a Laye man and a Cleargie man it is plaine that it was as lawfull for Elders and Deacons to marrie in his time as for Lay men Againe the same Clemens saith against them that denyed the lawfulnesse of generation after he had cited diuerse textes of Scripture Quid autem ad haec dicunt qui in legem c. But what say they to these thinges which inueygh against the lawe and against matrimony as that it was graunted onely in the law not also in the new Testament What can they say to these lawes that are made which abhorre sowing and generation when he maketh a Bishop also him that ruleth his house wel guide of the Church And the marriage of one woman buildeth the house of our Lorde Therefore he saith that all thinges are cleane to the cleane Seeing therefore that marriage is as free by his iudgement by the new Testament as by the lawe and Aarons Priestes were at libertie to marrie no man neede to doubt but the Bishops and Elders of the Churche of Christe are at as great libertie and vsing their libertie in his time were allowed for good ones Long after his time the councell of Gangra in their Epistle to the Bishops of Armenia complaine of Eustachius and his sect saying Presbyteros verò
qui matrimonis contraxerunt sperni debere dicunt They saie that Elders or Priests which haue ioyned them selues in matrimony ought to be despised Therefore these catholique Bishops thought those Priests good ones which did ioyne them selues in matrimony so they made their Canon Si quis discernit Presbyterum coniugatum c. If any man make difference of a married Priest as though by occasion of his marriage he ought not to offer and doth therfore absteine from his oblation let him be accursed Cap. 4. Of Deacons also the Ancyrane councell decreeth Cap. 10. Diaconi quicunque c. Whosoeuer be ordeyned Deacons if at the same time when they were ordeined they protested saying that they would be ioyned in marriage because they could not so continue if afterwarde they haue married wiues let them remaine in the ministerie because the Bishop hath giuen them licence But so many as haue helde their peace and taken imposition of handes professing continencie and afterwarde be ioyned in marriage ought to ceasse from the ministerie Finally the Decree of Pope Stephanus is cited Dist 31. Aliter se by Gratian and Iuo lib 4. allowing the tradition of the orientall Churches for marriage of theyr Church ministers Aliter se Orientalium c. The tradition of the Easterne Churches hath it otherwise and otherwise is the tradition of this holy Church of Rome For the Priests Deacons and Subdeacons of their Churches are coupled in marriage but none of the Priestes of this Church from the Subdeacon vnto the Bishoppe hath licence to enter into mariage It were hard if there were neuer a good one among all the Cleargie of the East Churches since the Apostles time which haue ben married and yet are To conclude I trust it is apparant to the indifferent reader that such texts of Scripture as I alledged in those two bookes which Bristow vndertaketh in this confuse manner to confute were rightly applyed and without all violence or wresting doe proue sufficiently that for which they were called to witnesse And as for the popish conference of Scriptures wherof Bristowe once againe with great lothsomnesse doeth bragge how sound it is you may perceiue by this example taste giuen by him in this Chapter Wherefore I maruell much what learned ministers of our church these were whom Bristow affirmeth being in number more then a dozen and diuerse of no vulgar wittes by their onely hearing of your conference of scriptures to haue become papists By like some vagabonde irregular and vnhonest persons being depriued of their ministerie for their vngodly behauiour haue sought fauour among them by reuolting or at least counterfaiting to be reuolted to papistrie when they be of no religion commended by Bristow for their wittes but neither for their honestie nor learning CAP. IX To defende that the doctors as they be confessed to be ours in very many pointes so they be ours in all pointes and the Protestants in no point All the doctors sayings that he alledgeth are examined and answered The first part of his doctors generally his challenging words I confesse not the doctors to be yours in very manye points nor simply in fewe pointes nor all in any point of controuersie but graunting that for a fewe errours which you haue common with them in which you also farre exceede them as in prayers for the dead prayers to saintes some superstitious or superfluous ceremonies I affirme that in the greatest and chiefest pointes of controuersie they are either all with vs or not one against vs. 2 A generall answere to his challenge declaring that 〈◊〉 neede not to answere his doctors particularly His first reason is because I sayde wee stande for authoritie onely to the iudgement of the holy scriptures which scriptures in the chapter going before he hath satisfied But how he hath satisfied them let the indifferent readers iudge And seeing the Papistes offer to stād to their iudgement in all things and wee refuse them not as witnesses vnto the truth in most things he is not discharged in reason of answering my doctors His second reason is for that I do answere all mine own doctors for him if it be wel considered what is your consideration In that I confesse them to haue helde with you the very same points for which wee must bee condemned no remedie as differing from the doctors in the greatest pointes What are those I pray you Bristowe answereth For why doeth he saye that we are against the honor of God against the offices of Christ but because wee holde inuocation of saints and worshipping of their reliques yes sir for other more grosse idolatrie and defacing of the kingdome priesthod and propheticall office of Christe and for holding these two pointes more absurdly and grossely then any of the doctors did Againe why doth he say that we are against the authoritie of Gods worde but because we hold with traditions as the doctors did I aunswere the doctors held with no traditions that were proued to be against the written worde of God they made not the decrees of Councels and Popes of equall autoritie with the worde of God as you do But of one of the greatest pointes he repeateth my wordes in which I say expressely I confesse with M. Allen that the old writers not only knewe but also haue expressed the value of our redemption by Christ in such wordes as it is not possible that the Popish satisfaction can stande with them And yet on the other side saith Bristowe see what followeth immediatly Against the value of which redemption if they haue vttered any thing by the worde of satisfaction or any thing else we may lawfully reiect their authoritie not onely though they be doctors of the church but also if they were angels from heauen But what I pray you concludeth Bristowe of these two sayings His wordes followe immediatly So that nowe we no more neede to defende against him that wee are not contrarie to the doctors then that the doctors are not contrary to them selues As though it were impossible for men to be contrarie to themselues And yet I say no more of them then of the angels that they are contrary to the trueth in this point but that if they were wee might reiect them as lawfully as the angels if they brought another gospell Last of all he sayth Wee neede not defend that we are contrarie to our selues in the same For in what wordes the doctors speake thereof the same do wee Neither is the antecedent true nor if it were doth the argument followe For you will not saye as the olde writers doe that through the redemption of Christ a man is iustified before God by faith onely without respect of his workes or merites And where you vse the doctors wordes you either vse them in a contrary sense or else elude them with additions distinctions neither grounded on the Scriptures nor on the olde doctors but inuented out of your owne
their subtile craftie rash craze the concord of the bishops which cleueth together But there to plead their cause wher both they may haue accusers witnesses of their crime except to a fewe desperate men castawayes the authoritie of the bishops placed in Africa seemeth to be lesse which haue alreadie iudged of them by the weight of their iudgement condemned their conscience bounde with the snares of many trespasses Their cause already hath beene heard the sentence is alreadie pronounced of them neither is it congruent to the censure of priests to be reprehended by Leuits of mouable inconstant minde c. You see that Cyprian meant nothing lesse than to giue Cornelius bishop of Rome authoritie to reuerse the sentence of the bishops of Africa whose authoritie he iudged to be nothing lesse then the bishops of Rome or other places Moreouer Bristow saith that Cyprian doth also note in S. Stephan some little negligence but much more wilful obreption in those two lapsed bishops of Spaine Basilides Martialis who had concealed from him the trueth that in their supplication they should haue expressed which because they did not he saith well that their restitution by the Pope could not stand them in steed against their former deposition by the bishopâ— of their owne prouince This which so plainly maketh for the Popes authoritit saveth Bristowe you are so blinde to bring against it Not so blinde but I can see that you acknowledge 〈…〉 e Pope iâ—â—udgement of bynding and loosing may 〈…〉 re But what I pray you maketh this for the Pope you 〈…〉 eane perhaps that Cyprian doeth graunt by impliâ—ation if the foresaide errour had not deceiued Stephaâ—â—s he had full authoritie to haue restored those two 〈◊〉 apsed bishops But Cyprian sayeth not so you hearde â—efore what his iudgement was of them that were condemned in one Prouince that their sentence could not â—e reuersed in another but if they woulde returne to the Church they should there be receiued vppon their â—epentance where they were first condemned and in this 4. Epistle he sayeth Quare etsi c. wherefore although some of our fellowe bishops there haue been moste welbeloued brethren which thinke the diuine discipline is to be neglected and doe rashly communicate with Basilides and Martialis this thing ought not to trouble our faith You see that he reproueth Stephanus and such as tooke his parte for neglect of diuine discipline in communicating with those heretikes which were lawfully condemned in their owne prouince and therefore coulde not by any other bee restored As concerning the Councels of Africa Mileuis sayeth Bristowe the question between them and those other fiue Popes was not about the matters of the vniuersall church as for example matters of faith No was is not the Popes authoritie of you counted a matter of faith and of the vniuersall church although they agreed in all other matters But Bristow shameth not to say it was not about the Popes authoritie in receiuing of bishops appeales but what order the Nicene Councel had taken therein As though that counterfeit Canon was not alledged to iustifie the Popes authoritie in receiuing such appeales But there are examples you saye of appeales and namely of the Patriarkes of Alexandria and Constantinople but of which Patriarks to whom you shewe not yea S. Augustine him selfe you say vseth it as a plea That Cecilianus was readie to pleade his cause before other churches out of Africa Ep. 162. This prooueth not that Cecilianus although trusting in the innoceÌ„cy of his cause refused no indifferent iudges yet that he appealed to the Church of Rome and least of all to the singular iudgment of the Bishop of Rome but to all other churches And the appeales that were made in his cause were made to the Emperour and from the Bishop of Rome being once delegate of the Emperour to heare his cause with other Bishops vnto him the seconde time who gaue aliud uidicium Arelatense aliorum scilicet Episcoporum c. an other iudgement of A relate of other Bishops as it is plaine in the same Epistle But such appeales were lawfull saith Bristow by the councell Sardicense cap. 7. in the same Carthage councell cap. 3. whose authoritie none of those Africane Bishops did denie for the same Bishops were of it that were of the Nicene and Sainct Augustine chap. 7. did expresly admitte in the Canon of the inferiori appealing from their ownâ— Bishops In deede in the 3. chap. of the 6. Councell of Carthage that forged Canon of Bishops appeales was aledged which is nowe read for the 7. Canon of the Sardicense councell but it was alledged as a canon of the Nicene Councell and if it had beene a true canon of Sardica Councell why did not those Bishops alledge it as a Canon of Sardica as well as the other Canon of the inferiors appealing from their owne Bishop vnto the Bishops next adioyning seeing the Bishops of Africa and S. Augustine himselfe were so ready to yeelde to the authoritie of the Councell of Sardica Therefore it appeareth that the Canon of bishops appeales to Rome being first forged as a Canon of the Nicene Councell when it could not find any setling there was afterwarde foysted in the Sardicen Councell Thirdly saith Bristow these appeales were lawfull by the Nicene Councell also wherevppon you say verie insolently trusting ouermuch your lying LutheraÌ„ frinds the Magdeburgiens that S. Augustine his fellowes tooke those Popes with plaine forgery of the Canons of Nice and fetched them ouer the coles meetely wel for it Bristow will still defend that forged Canon for other there is none in the Nicen councell that alloweth such appeales As for the Magdeburgiens I neuer read theÌ„ but the report of the councels gathered by Peter Crab I haue read 〈◊〉 dosen yeares before I wrote against Allen. And in the end of the African Councel I read this Epistle of the councell to Celestinus byshop of the citie of Rome Domino dilectissimo honorabili fratri Celestino c. To our most welbeloued lord honorable brother Celestinus We Aurelius Palatinus Antonius Tutus Seruus dei Terentius Fortunatus Martinus Ianuarius Optatus Celticius Donatus Theasius Vincentius Fortunatianus and the rest which were present in the vniuersal AfricaÌ„ councel of Carthage We wold haue wished if as thy holynes hath insinuated by letters sent by our fellow elder Leo that you reioyced of the comming of Appiarius so we also might send with gladnes these writings of his purgation Verily both our and your chearfulnes should be now more certaine neither might seeme too much hasted and ouer-speedy which as yet had gon before aswell of one to bee heard as of one that is alredy heard Surely when our ho ly brother and fellow bishop Faustinus came vnto vs we gathered a Councell and beleeued that he was therfore sent with him that as by his helpe he had beene before restored to the Eldership so
rrow by his labour he might haue beene purged of so great crimes as are obiected by the Tabracenes whose so great so heynous wicked factes the examinatiō of the course of our councell hath found out that the saide persons hoped for patronage rather then iudgment and the aide of a defender rather then the iustice of an examiner For first of al how much he withstoode the whole congregatiō offering dayly diuers iniuries as one that mainteined the priuileges of the Romaine Church and that would be receiued into communion of vs whom thy holynes beleeuing that he had appealed which he was not able to proue had restored to the communion which neuerthelesse was not lawfull and thou maist know also better by the reading of the actes Notwithstanding holding a most painfull iudgment by the space of three dayes when being verie much troubled wee inquired of diuerse thinges obiected vnto him GOD the righteous iudge strong and long suffering to our great profite hath cutte off either the delayes of our fellowe Byshop Faustinus or the craftie shiftes of Appiarius himselfe by which hee went about to hide his filthinesse not to bee named For his more vile and stinking obstinacie being subdued by which he would haue ouerwhelmed so great and filthie myre with impudencie our GOD strayning his conscience and publishing euen vnto men the secrete crimes which he did alreadie condemne which were as it were wrapped close in his hearte sodainely this craftie denyer brake forth into confession of all the wicked factes that were obiected against him And at length of his owne accorde conuicted himselfe of all those incredible reproches and turned into mourning euen our hope by which wee both beleeued and wished that hee might haue beene purged of so shamefull blottes but that hee mitigated this our heauinesse with one onely comfort that both he discharged vs from the labour of longer inquirie and also prouided for his woundes such a medicine as it was although it were by vnwilling confession and his owne conscience striuing against it our Lorde and brother Therefore reseruing our dutie of due salutation wee earnestly desire you that henceforwarde you doe not easily admitte vnto your hearing such as come from hence nor that you wil any more receiue into communion those that are excommunicated by vs because your worship may easily perceiue that this matter is also defined in the Nicene Councell For although the prouision seeme to be there made of inferiour Clarkes or lay men yet howe much more woulde it that the same shoulde be obserued concerning Byshops that being suspended from the communion in their prouince they shoulde not seeme by your holynesse either ouerhastily or vnduely to be restored to the communion Also let your holynesse refuse the Iewde refuges or shiftes of Priestes and other clarkes as it is meete for you to do because that by no decree of the fathers this is taken away from the Church of Africa and the decrees of Nice haue most manifestly committed them whether they bee clarkes of inferior degree or whether they be Bishops themselues vnto their owne Metropolitanes For most wisely and iustly they foresawe that all businesses should be ended in their owne places where they began and that the grace of the holy ghost shoulde not be wanting to euery prouince whereby equitie by the priests of Christ might both be seene wisely also held most constantly especially because it is graunted to euerie man if he shal be offended with the iudgement of them that shall heare his cause to appeale to the Councels of his owne prouince or else to a generall councell Except peraduenture there be any man which beleeueth that our GOD can inspire the iustice of examination and triall into any one man whomsoeuer and doth denie the same to innumerable priestes gathered together in councell Or howe can the same iudgement giuen beyonde the sea be stedfast and sure vnto which the necessarie persons of witnesses either for infirmitie of sexe or of age or for many other letts that may happen cannot bee brought for that any iudges shoulde be sent as it were from the side of your holynesse we finde it decreed in no Synod of the fathers For that decree which you sent vnto vs long agoe by our saide fellowe Bishop Faustinus as a decree of the Nicene councell in the truer councell copies which are receiued of the Nicene councell being sent vnto vs out of the authenticall copie by holy Cyrillus our fellowe Byshop of the Church of Alexandria and by the worshipfull Atticus Byshop of Constantinople which also haue beene sent from vs before this time by Innocentius priest and Marcellus subdeacon by whom they were directed from them to vs vnto Bishoppe Bonifacius of worshipfull memorie your predecessour in which wee coulde finde no such matter Also your clarks as executors of your commaūdemēts neither send ye nor graunt yee to any that shall require them least we should seeme to bring the smokie pride of the world into the Church of Christ which to them that desire to see God sheweth forth the light of simplicitie and the day of humilitie for touching our brother Faustinus now that Appiarius a man to bee lamented is remoued out of the Church of Christ for his vnspeable wickednesse we are sure that sauing the honestie moderation of thy holinesse thy brotherly loue will not suffer him to remaine any longer in Africa And written with an other hande our Lord preserue your ho lynesse praying for vs in long life Lorde brother Thus haue I set downe the whole Epistle though it be somwhat long that the English reader may see and iudge of the whole matter in controuersie betweene the Bishops of Rome and all the bishops of all the countries of Africa which was the third part of the world and howe truely Bristow first denyeth the forgerie which was proued by copies sent from Alexandria Constantinople out of the authentical copie of the Councell of Nice Secondly that he saith the same matter in questiō for appeales was decreed by the councell of Sardica when this Epistle affirmeth y◠by no decrees of any Synod any such thing was appointed but the cleane contrary by the councell of Nice defined Thirdly where he saith those African fathers had smal cause to stand so much with the Popes in those appeales that they shew great cause Fourthly where Bristow saith that by this their doing nothing can be inferred against the Popes authoritie aboue prouinciall Councels more then against a generall Councels authoritie aboue a prouinciall when they shewe the last appeale to be permitted to any man that findeth himselfe grieued vnto the general councels Fiftly where he saith that popish kings bishops at this day stand with the Popes in the right of giuing benefices appeales c. with his owne good leaue wtout any preiudice to his superiority I aunswere the bishops of Africa wtout the Popes leaue against his wil decreed that whosoeuer did
of theirs how they should be receiued though it be not resolued yet can not disprooue them to be the true Church nor proue the Donatists to be the Church seeing there can be but one Where out of this Booke Cap. 16. I shewe that Augustine declareth first that Heretikes must be confuted only by Scriptures secondly that neither councells succession of Bishoppes vniuersality miracles visions dreames nor reuelations are the notes to trie the Catholike Church but only the Scriptures Bristowe saith they are notes with the Scripture as he hath shewed in his demaund I answere whatsoeuer agreeth with the Scripture may well be receiued But the Scripture without all these is sufficient to trie the Church as Augustine sheweth therefore all the rest of Bristowes motiues might be spared if he durst ioyne issue vpon the Scripture only as Augustine doth but that he dare not do He hath a great quarrell of Augustine for translating manifestatur is proued as though Augustine saide that true miracles and visions lacke waight and fashion of iust probation If you call true miracles that are done indeede and not counterfeited I say that all such make no iust probation For God tempteth his Church by such to see if they will forsake his commandement Deut. 13. But those that be true miracles indeede are ioyned with the truth of doctrine which being tryed by the worde of God to be such confirme it or prepare mens mindes vnto it of themselues neuer sufficient to auouch true doctrine without Gods worde and therefore I will stil tâ—â—nslate manifestatur is manifestly prooued or shewed which is alone Moreouer out of Augustine Cont. Epist. sundam Cap. 4. I shewed that though consent and vniuersality antiquity succession be good confirmation when they are ioyned with truth yet when trueth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all Bristowe saith that Augustine graunteth not that the truth can be separated from them Yes verily or else he should haue stood vpon that poynt only that truth can not be seuered from those markes which vndoubtedly the Catholique Church had and the Manichees wanted And although he saide the Church had most syncere wisdom yet he saith not that wheresoeuer was antiquity succession c. there must needs be the most syncere wisdome Lastly out of the booke De Pastoribus Cap. 14. I affirmed that mans auctority is too weake to carry away so waighty a matter as was in question vsing the wordes of Augustine Auferantur chartae humanae c. Let mens papers be remoued let the voices of God be heard shewe me one place of Scripture for Donatus side c. Bristowe rehearsing the saying more at large as I did Ar. 14. asketh what maketh all this for Fulke vnlesse hee thinketh he hath any vantage in his owne false translation of Acta turning it decrees Surely whether the worde be well or ill translated I seeke no vantage therof and yet if I should change my translations I would rather call Acta actes of the Court or recordes then Courtrolles as you doe But euery man may see what vantage you clasp at among ignorant persons by your false translation of Chartae humanae mens Court papers as though the worde of Augustine were not generall to remoue all mens writings and to vrge only the Scripture But the Church beginning at Hierusalem spreading ouer all Nations to the very last time which Augustine in all places proueth against the Donatists maketh much against vs in Bristowes opinion Nay rather against the Papists which restraine the Church into the Romishe rable which we affirme both is and was alwaies scattered ouer al the world although greater in number at some times then at other some seeing that Mahomet hath infected a greate part of the worlde and yet among the Mahometists we doubt not but Christ hath his members that neuer bowed their knee either to Mahomet of Mecha or to the Pope of Rome 3 About certaine traditions The oblations Pro natalitiis spoken of before Cap. 6. Par. 1. 5. I saide those oblations with other superstitions fathered vpon tradition of the Apostles by the Nicen other councels as Rhenanus witnesseth are abrogated Bristowe answereth that he speaketh neuer a worde of any other traditions Yet Bristowe confesseth him selfe that many of them are abrogated Cap. 6. Par. 1. 4. 5. 4 About the marriage of Votaries The two places one of Epiphanius the other of Hieronyme whiche I cited for the Marriage of Votaries Bristo we sayeth are about a matter which they holde euen as those fathers did But in deede they holde the contrary for they helde the marriage of such lawfull the Papistes dissolue them and say they are no marriages It is better saith Epiphanius to haue one sinne and not many It is better for him that is fallen from his course opeÌ„nly to take a wife according to the lawe and of long time to repent from his virginitie and so to be brought againe to the Church as one that hath done amisse as one that is fallen and broken hauing neede to be bounde rather then to be wounded daily with priuie dartes of that wickednesse which the deuil putteth into him So knoweth the Church to preache these are the medicines of healing Bristowe saith I gather that marriage is an wholsome medicine for such men Contrarie to that I confesse my selfe that he calleth it a sinne But he slaundereth me as he doeth often I saide Epiphanius doth count it an offence to marry because it was a breache of vowe but neither he nor I saide that marâ—iâ—ge is a sinne Bristowe saith likewise the Apostles tradition calleth it a sinne But he slandereth the tradition or Epiphanius the reporter thereof euen as he did me The words are Hae. 61. Tradiderunt c. The holy Apostles of God haue deliuered that it is a sin after virginity decreed to be turned to marriage They say not marriage is a sinne but by breache of vowe to marrie is a sinne For their sinn cannot pollute the ordinance of God But the wholsome medicines are penance reconciliation saith Bristowe And why not marriage I pray you whatsoeuer is good for the diseased is an wholsom medicine to take a wife openly is good for the diseased therefore marriage also is a wholesome medicine As for your distinction of solemne vowe and sole vow is a very bable Epiphanius speaketh generally of al that had vowed virginity To the place of Hierome Ad Demetriadem he answereth that they which of two sinnes will needes committ one they counsell them to committ the lesse rather then the greater But Hierom maketh no comparison of sinnes but saith to such virgins as liued incontinently It must be plainly saide to them that either they should marry if they cannot containe or else they should containe if they will not marry 5. About the reall presence and transubstantiation About these pointes I will not stande considering
them for triall of the greatest controuersies that are betweene vs of iustification by grace and not by merite of workes of the Popes antichristian supremacie of the Lordes supper of worshipping of images and many other controuersies As for that brabbling of conuerting of nations by them or vs it is not worth the while but a matter of meere contention which can not be decided but by triall whether they or we holde the true faith of the Gospell for into that were all nations conuerted that were turned by the true Apostles As for the conuersion of any nation into false Christianitie proueth not the conuerters to be Apostles But Bristowe bragging of their wonderfull conuersion of nations of India and Affrica which no man reporteth but lying Friers and shamelesse Papistes seemeth to denie that any were conuerted vnto false religion by any false Apostles or Heretikes And first where I saide there are people in Aethiopia which by circumcision and obseruation of the lawe declare that they were conuerted by the false apostles Bristowe opposeth the authoritie of Eusebius reporting the conuersion of Aethiopia to haue beene of the right stampe c. imagining belike that Aethiopia is so smal a countrie that it were not possible for one peece to be conuerted into true Christianitie and another part into corrupt That there are such people as I saide Munster in his Geographie of Aethiopia doth testifie As for the fable of their Emperours submission and the Abbots approbation of Poperie in all pointes may serue to play mocke holiday among the Papistes they can haue no credite among vs. As great a mockerie it is that Bristow abuseth the saying of Irenaeus concerning the Church of Rome in his time lib. 3. cap. 3. In qua c. In which alwaies of them that are round about hath bene kept that tradition or deliuerie of doctrine which is from the Apostles But the praise of the Romane Church of that time is the shame of the Popish synagogue of this time which hath forsaken that tradition and embraced newe doctrine neuer heard of from the Apostles daies vnto the time of Irenaeus Where I say it is manifest that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians Bristowe replieth that in so saying I declare that I neuer read the ecclesiastical stories such is Bristows Logike It were possible I had read them and forgotten them But what could I either reade or remember in the places by him quoted First Socrates lib. 2. cap. 32. where it is said that Vlphilas Bishop of the Gothes assented to an Arrian or neutrall confession giuen at Constantinople whereas before that time he had followed the steps of Theophilus which was Bishop of the Gothes and being present in the Nicene Councel had subscribed thereto he also had embraced the faith confirmed at Nice First of the Alanes Vandales here is no word nor in any of the places folowing of the Gothes it is said that Theophilus sometime their Bishop was of right faith and Vlphilas also before his subscription and consequently a fewe that were conuerted to Christianitie before the heresie of Arius But what saith Socrates of the first nation of the Gothes that was conuerted and of the second also lib. 4. cap. 27. which is the second place quoted There were two nations of the Gothes the one gouerned by Phritigernes the other by Athanarichus Phritigernes being oppressed by the power of Athanarichus sought aide of Valens the Arrian Emperor and obtaining it put Athanarichus to flight Quae causa fuit c. Which was the cause saith Socrates that verie manie of the Barbarians receiued the Christian faith For Phritigernes that he might shewe him selfe thankefull for his benefite receiued of the Emperor beganne to embrace his religion and to exhort his people to doe the same And for that cause manie Gothes which then to please the Emperors humour had addicted them selues to the Arrian sect vnto this time cleaue fast vnto it At the same time Vâ—philâ—s Bishop of the Gothes inuented the Gothian letters and as soone as he had turned the holie Scripture into their tongue he purposed that the barbarous people should learne the holie Oracles of God But as soone as Vlphâ—las had taught the Christian religion not onely to them which obeyed Phritigernes but also to them that were vnder Athanarichus the same Athanarichus mouing persecution put to death diuers of the Arrian sect c. The same historie reheâ—rseth Sozomenus lib. 6. cap. 37. which is the third quotation interposing his opinion At verò non istam c. But truely I doe not thinke that this was the onely cause whie the whole nation of the Gothes vnto this time is adioyned to the Arrians but that Vlphilas their bishop although in the beginning he dissented nothing from the Catholike Church yet afterward in the reigne of Constantius through lacke of knowledge he was present at the Councel held at Constantinople with Eudoxius and Acacius which were of the number of Bishops that had bene in the Nicen Councel And so being become an Arrian separated the whole nation of Gothes froÌ„ the Catholike faith This storie sheweth that Phritigernes was not the only cause of conuersion of the Gothes for Vlphilas the Bishop of those fewe that were before that time christened being long before peruerted into Arrianisme was the principall cause of turning both the nations vnto Christianisme infected with Arrianisme But Theodoret â—aith Bristowe lib. 〈◊〉 ca. 37. Who was a Catholike Bishop of purpose to take from the Arrians that vaine bragge of theirs sheweth that the Gothes were first Catholikes and not as you say first conuerted by the Arrians but only by false informations too much trusting of their bishop Vlphilas being an other Balaam lead out of the way This purpose Bristowe dreameth of for no such appeareth in his wordes cap. 36. Sed ego operaepretium c But my thinke I shall do a thing worth the labour if I shal shew to them that knowe not howe the infection of the Arrian disease came to the Barbarians And then sheweth that by persuasion of Eudoxius Vlphilas which was the Bishop of those Gothes which before were lightened with the beames of diuine knowledge entred into communion with the Arrian Emperor Valens and so deceiued the whole nation Where Theodoret saith nothing contrarie to other histories which shewe that Phritigernes first brought the whole nation of the Gothes that was vnder him vnto Arrianisme and after Vlphâ—las turned the other nation the was vnder Athanarichus vnto the same corrupt forme of Christianitie sauing that he is contrarie to Socrates and Sozomenus which affirme that Vlphilas was brought into Arrianisme at the heretical Councel of Constantinople in the daies of Constantius which reigned before Valens manie yeres That I said of them that were conuerted by the Nouatians and Donatists Purg. 337. Bristow vnderstaÌ„deth of whole nations requireth my histories autors to proue that I
anie priest which had purposed continencie to marrie To that I saide of manie of the Cathedrall Churches in England builded for preachers and their wiues to dwell in Bristowe saith I haue wonne a whetstone as bigge as a mountaine but against the authoritie of the histories Ranulph Cest. Math. Westm. Petriburgens and other which I cited Bristow bringeth nothing but railing in filthie termes meete for the colledge of Cardinals life not for the holie estate of matrimonie Where I shewe the differing forme of the chauncels altars of the auncient Churches with crosse yles from the latter Popish erections Bristowe maketh me a souden proctor of theirs as though a chauncel and altar a crosse barre might not be named but by a Papist Yea he maketh me contrarie to my selfe for saying that Popish chauncels which are at the East end of Churches are but late additions and sanctifieth that we can abide no chauncels no crosse yles no length to the East c. of which things we make small account either to haue theÌ„ or to be without them But it is more materiall that he saith CoÌ„stantinus had tabernaculum crucis a tabernacle or moucable Church of the crosse wheras we can abide no crosse or roode in our Churches Euseb. in vit Const. lib. 2. cap. 12. lib 4. cap. 56 Sozomen lib. 1. cap. 8. The two latter places shewe that in his warres he vsed to haue a tent or tabernacle as a Church for praier and ministration of the sacraments the first place onely calleth it tabernaculum crucis which might be of the forme but of any crosse that was in it there is no mention and much lesse of a rood which is a crosse with an image on it As for the crosse which Paulinus the superstitious Bishop of Nola saith was kept in the Church of Ierusalem worshipped by the Bishop and the people if it were true yet it proueth not creeping to the crosse on Good Friday as Bristow saith for there might be worshipping without creeping or Popish worshipping either Againe worshipping of that same crosse that Christ died on proueth not creeping to any idol of it Finally where he would proue out of Paulinus and Beda the multitude of altars in one Churche he laboureth in vaine Eusebius whome I cited is cleare both of the vnitie of the altar in his time and of the manner of standing which was not after the popish manner Of like wisedome it is that he will not allowe me to talke of chalices of wood and glasse because I say their vestiments be as good stuffe as their chalices which the olde Church knewe not Thereof he chargeth me not 〈◊〉 haue-read in Theodoret lib. 2. cap. 27. of that Stola sacra c. Holie cope wouen with golden threads which Constaâ—tinus gaue to the Bishop of Ierusalem that he might weare it when he did baptise Yes I haue read it but I spake of an elder Church then Constantines time in which such pompe was not vsed And yet that robe is lewdly translated of Bristowe a cope Although neither the Papists in baptisme haue alwaies or ordinarily worne a cope The rest that he citeth out of antiquitie for gorgeous attire and golden chalices partly is false and partly superfluous For Ornatus is by him translated into ornaments Valens commended Saint Basil Quòd tanto ornatu támque decenter c that with so great comelinesse and so decently he exercised his priestlie office Againe Sozomen lib. 8. cap. 21. sheweth that Chrysostomes priestes taken by force in ornatu vt erant in their attire as they were which was but a white garment as appeareth by diuers places of Chrysostome in Matth. Hom. 85. c. Likewise he asketh whether there were such neede for redeeming captiues building of Churches or that requies defunctorum might be at the buriall of the deade that chalices were broken and solde seeing Ambrose alloweth but these three causes of breaking and selling of chalices As though Ambrose spake of buying of Trentals of Masses with the price of the chalices where he saith Off. lib. 2. cap. 28. Nemo potest dolere quia in sepulturis Christianorâ—â—n requies defunctorum est No man can be griened because in the buriall of Christians the rest of the deade is Which he speaketh of enlarging the places of buriall which is the third cause Nemo potest indignari c. No man can be angrie because the spaces are enlarged for burying of the reliquijs fidelâ—um the bodies of the faithfull Yet he asketh if I be not ashamed to cite such places of antiquitie seel hate chalices because they be chalices and because they be consecrated Whereas I saide nothing against the necessarie vse of cuppes in the Communion but of the superstitious pompe of the Papistes in their golden chalices and idolatrous manner of consecrating them while they suffer the poore to sterue for lacke of necessarie sustenâ—nce but once againe most impudently he chargeth Ambrose to say that the sacred chalice is called there a vessell of our Lordes bloud and golde in which our Lordes bloud is powred where he speaketh of breaking the cuppes before they be solde least they should offensiuely be abused to wicked purposes But there saith he is not any such worde of them and in the middest of the chapter where these wordes are they are not spoken of the materiall cuppe but of the godlie vse of them when they are solde to redeeme captiues aunswering the obiection of such thinges that be once dedicated to Gods seruice Ille verus est thesaurus Domini c. That is a true treasure of the Lorde which worketh that which his bloud wrought Then I acknowledge a vessell of the Lordes bloud when I see redemption in both that the cup may redeeme from the enimie them whome the bloud hath redeemed from finne And againe Agnosco infusum auro c. I acknowledge the bloud of Christe powred into the golde not onely to haue made it redde but also to haue imprinted in it the vertue of diuine operation by the gift of redemption Such golde the holie Martyr Laurence reserued to the Lord c. But seeking to giue the Papistes a blowe Bristowe saith I care not though the stroke light vpon the Primitiue Church which had vessels of gold not onely in these princely buildings erected by Constantine c but also in the crypts or caues of the earth in time of persecutioÌ„ How Ambroâ—e and Acacius vsed thought these goldeÌ„ vesselâ— best bestowed I haue shewed But in the persecution time howe proueth Bristowe they had such plentie of golde and siluer Forsooth out of Prudentius the Poet who bringeth in the tyrant speaking to Laurence and râ—quiring the treasures of the Church as the cups of golâ—e and siluer in which they did sacrifice and set their waxe candles But what answere did Laurence the Deacon returne what chalices or candlestickes did he render but the poore that were relieued by the aimes of the Church
without succession vnto their blasphemous sacrificing Priesthood But let vs see what balde reason he bringeth to proue that we haue translated the Priesthood First we haue laboured to chaunge the Apostolicall names of Episcopus and Presbyter into superintendent elder So a translation out of Greeke into Latine or English is a chaunge with him and such as may not be abidden for he reproueth me for translating Presbyterum in Cyprian an elder Secondly I helpe an other argument of theirs concluding out of Ephes. 4. that the Popish Hierarchie is no part of Christian Ministerie by which I declare that we haue chaunged the Priesthoode of the Primitiue Church which had Popish Bishops Priestes Deacons Subdeacons Exorcistes Cantors Acolytes Ostiaries for which he citeth Eusebius lib. 6. cap. 34. where there is no such matter named either in the Greeke or Latine computation of Grynaeus I confesse the names are auncient and the offices in the Primitiue Church were some necessarie some profitable but I speake of the Popish Hierarchie in which nothing remaineth but the names But Bristowe thinketh I do not consider that S. Paule nameth there the onely Ministers of the worde or preachers Yes verily and therfore I exclude all these Popish orders which are such euery one of them as may be and are giuen to men that are no preachers or ministers of the word As for the order of Christian Deacons for ministring to the poore and Elders of gouernement I knowe they are not to be sought in that rehearsall But for those Popish orders that Bristow saith belong to the ministerie of the altar the Scripture speaketh no one word of them Yet he saith I may see the distinction of them Act. 13. where some preachers had not orders 1. Tim. 3. where some good Priestes do not labour in the word and doctrine Concerning the first place I knowe not what he meaneth except he thinke Paule and Barnabas were not Apostles before handes were laid on them and they dismissed to preach abroad among the Gentiles Or else that those Prophetes and teachers named in the beginning of the Chapter had nowe orders which howe he proueth I maruell specially seeing other Papistes doe vnderstand the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth ministring for their sacrificing As for the other place is of Elders of gouernement and not Priestes of the Altar That the auncient writers vsed the names of Sacerdotes Leuitae Pontifices it was not because the ministers of the Gospell are a species or kinde of them but abusiuely for a certaine similitude of the Leuiticall order and Priesthoode with the ministers of the word and sacraments Thirdly he saith the Apostles Bishops and Priestes were made by other Bishops and Priestes ours by Lay men as of Kings and ciuile Magistrates which is an impudent slaunder Fourthly wee confesse their orders to bee good ynough because we reorder not them which is false for I saide their admission of the Church is a newe calling Bristowe saith that is a newe way to giue orders shewing him selfe ignorant that euen in the olde Church suche as were ordained by some heretikes were receiued after they had abiured their heresie to continue in the degree of the Cleargie as of the Nouatians Concil Nicen. cap. 8. Wherefore the rest of his babbling O your Diuinitie O your Scripture as that I bring nothing to defend Pilkington not to be a mocke Bishop but his excellent learning and diligent preaching c. I passe ouer as also the great preaching which nowe at the last is in Popish countries where within these threescore yeares was as great silence as in England at the same time Fiftly arguments neede not where I denie all Priesthoode but the spirituall Priesthoode common to all Christians Sixtly If I will inuent a thirde Priesthoode hee saith that the Primitiue or Fathers Priesthoode was according to the order of Melchisedech and to offer sacrifice in breade and wine as Melchisedek Christ did Beware what you say of a sacrifice of bread and wine offered by you Christ as by Melchisedek But you regarde not our arguments they be but obiections At leastwise I pray you answere our obiections or else they wil be argumentes to proue you all blasphemous vsurpers of Christs singular priesthood But that you wil doe at leasure first you will proue your priesthood out of Augustine Contr. aduers. Leg. Prophet Lib. Cap. 19 20. Where he defendeth the sacrifice of the Church to be after the order of Melchisedek and yet but a sacrifice of praise So that you haue neither your sacrifice propitiatorie whereof the controuersie is nor your particular priesthood for he saith The Church from the Apostles time c. doth offer to God in the body of Christ a sacrifice of praise c. not after the order of Aaron but after the order of Melchisedeck Now who knoweth not that the sacrifice of praise is a spiritual sacrifice common to al the Church and not peculiar to any special order of priesthood So that S. Augastine naming the order of Melchisedek alludeth to those places of the scripture in which all Christians are called a royall priesthood Kinges and priestes 1. Pet. 2. Apoc. 1. but neuer intended to make the singular priesthood of Christ confirmed to him by oath Psalm 110. and which passeth not from him Heb. 7. common to ministers of the Church If you obiect He speaketh of celebration of the sacrament which is peculiar to them I answere although the ministration of the sacrament be proper vnto them yet the sacrifice of praise offered in the celebration is common to the whole Church as Augustine both here and else where affirmeth So that although a sacrifice be graunted yet a special priesthood is not proued But the sacrifice of the crosse was both of thankesgiuing of propitiatiō he troweth and therfore the memoriall sacrifice of the altar to be the one what doth it let to be the other This argument standing vpon Bristowes trowing and confounding the members of a diuision shall haue none other answere for me The places that I cite out of Ambrose ad virg laps de virgin Lib. 1. to proue that he vseth the names of sacrifice and propitiation vnproperly as other of the fathers doe Bristow will not allow as sufficient saying I might as wel so argue that S. Paule speaketh vnproperly because he saith our bodies by mortification to be made a liuing sacrifice whereas the Apostle Heb. 10. saith Christs body by death to be made a sacrifice And what offence is it to say S. Paule speaketh vnproperly where he speaketh figuratiuely as when he saith the rock was Christ. Howbeit in this example of Bristow there is great difference but that such a blunderer as he cannot see it which confoundeth the propitiatorie sacrifice of Christ with the eucharisticall sacrifice of Christians as he confounded them both in the sacrifice of the Crosse the one could not be offered without death of the
sacrifice is made celebrated with prayer as Hierom saith by the pâ—iestes prayers What are then the wordes of consecration And because euen the olde howse of those leuiticall bloode sacrifices also was Domus orationis the howse of prayer Therefore the masse is nothing but a prayer So is Tertullian answered Who would not wonder at this clearkely answere For I thinke no man can vnderstand of what reason it holdeth The last doctor is Irenaeus saying of the sacrifice of the Church Libr. 4. cap. 34. The conscience of him that doth offer being pure doth sanctifie the sacrifice and causeth GOD to accepte it as comming from a frende The sacrifices doe not sanctifie a man for GOD hath no neede of sacrifice c. This cannot be verified of the naturall body of Christ. Bristowe answereth they say the same Yea doe Bristowe Is the sacrifice you offer the bodie of Christ Yea doth the conscience of the offerer sanctifie the body of Christ Out vpon thee filthie blasphemous dogge if thou dare affirme it But Bristow asketh Wether any heretike canpleade by their verdit that he pleaseth God in offering to him bread and wine As though that were the question Yea or also the body it selfe and bloode of Christ so as all Priestes doe in their Caluinicall communion no lesse then we doe in the masse What newes is this doe all Priestes in the Caluinicall communion offer the body and blood of Christ as much as you papistes doe in your masse I thinke euen the same for none that communicate with Caluine doe at all offer Christes naturall body and blood and no more doe you although arrogantly and blasphemously you presume to doe it In the 25. demaund of Monkes where I say the olde Monkes were nothing but Colledges of studentes Bristowe saith in ouerthtowing of Popish Abbeis in which was nothing almost but ignorance and filthmes and Idolatrie we haue spoyled the Church of God of great vtilitie But he saith further they were votaries and so they be not in colledges of studentes their vowes were not such that could make them other then students they vowed to serue God vprightly and his Church when they were called and they in Colledges which hauing once promised the same forsake this holie purpose haue smale commendation among studentes I know in time superstition preuailed and that which first was free at last became coact and that which was of conueencie was thought of necessitie euen as true religion declined and in the Romish Church at length degenerated into Idolatrie and superstition In the 27. demaund of Councels where I proue that Councels may erre First by the prayer vsually saide after the ende of euerie generall Councel Bristowe saith the prayer is not in respect for any false decrees or beleeuings of their whole bodies but by reason of certaine ignorances and frailties of their members when in the prayer they expresly declare their feare lest ignorance hath driuen them into error which can be vnderstoode of none other common errors of this life but of their error in decrees seeing the prayer is appropriate vnto the Councel And that the wordes going before after do manifestly declare Te in nostris principiis c. Thee in our beginninges we require an assister thee also in this ende of our iudgementes or decrees we desire to be present a pardoner for our faultes that is that thou wouldest spare our ignorance and pardon our error that to our perfect desires thou wouldest graunt a perfect efficacie of worke And because our conscience accusing vs we doe fainte for feare lest either ignorance hath drawne vs into errror or rashnes of will perhaps hath driuen vs to decline from iustice therfore we desire thee we pray thee that if we haue drawne vnto vs any offence in the celebritie of this Councell thou wouldest vouchsafe to pardon it and to make it remissible Who would pray thus in the name of the whole Councell which he thought could not possiblie fall into any error That I alledge out of Augustine de baptismo contra Donat. libr. 2. cap. 3. That generall Councells are and may be reformed the later by the former Bristowe vnderstandeth of Councells not confirmed by the Pope which may be reformed euen by the see Apostolike alone That was a poynt more then S. Augustine sawe But how can they be called Plenaria concilia full and whole Councells where lacketh any necessarie confirmation This is a shamelesse eluding of the Doctors sayinges For first Augustine includeth all catholike Bishops in possibility of erring in doctrine not excepting the Bishop of Rome then prouinciall last of all generall Councells onely the scripture cannot be amended as that which hath no error in it Where I saide the Councells are receiued because they decreed truly according to the worde of God and not the truth receiued because it was decreed in Councells Bristowe saith I might as well say the scriptures are receiued because they are written truly and not the truth receiued because it is written in the scriptures But I say the comparison is not like For truth is not so necessarilie bound vnto generall Councells as it is to the holy scriptures and therefore both the scriptures are receiued because they are written truly and the truth is receiued because it is knowne by the scriptures It followeth not so of councells that what soeuer they haue decreed is truth although the Bishop of Rome haue confirmed them Leo Bishop of Rome confirmed the 6. of Constantinople which condemned Pope Honorius his predecessor for an heretike whom you hould cannot erre in doctrine which is an argument sufficient to strangle any papist in either of these two blasphemous assertions The pope caÌ„not erre The generall Councel confirmed by the Pope cannot erre In the 28. demaunde of the See Apostolike where I bring the example of Victor Bishop of Rome withstoode by Irenaeus and Polycrates when he went about to vsurpe authoritie ouer other Churches in excommunicating all the Churches in Asia and yet Irenaeus and Polycrates with other so reprouing the Bishop of Rome were not heretikes Bristow babling about the cause of Victors displeasure which is no matter in question saith he vsurped no authoritie nor was so charged but that his censure did seeme to harpe to S. Irenaeus as if the Pope would nowe excommunicate all them that would not receiue the Councel of Trent it would seeme likewise to many who confesse he hath authoritie ouer al. But none of these Bishops that withstoode Victor confessed that he had authoritie ouer them or that he could not erre But contrariwise Polycrates chargeth him with vsurpation where he saith he will not be troubled with his terrifying censure seeing he followeth as he thought the scripture and ancient traditions of the Apostles Likewise Eusebius saith that Victor was sharply reproued of many and namely of Irenaeus in the behalfe of all the brethren of Fraunce whom he gouerned Yea he saith expresly that Victor
with his censure was countermanded by many Bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They did countermaund him or gaue him contrarie commaundement to set his minde on things pertaining to peace and vnitie and loue of his neighbour Irenaeus in his Epistle to Victor shewing that Polycarpus could not be persuaded by Anicetus Bishop of Rome in some small things wherein they differed declared that it was not then of Polycarpus or him selfe otherwise thought but that the Bishop of Rome might erre The other example I brought was of Stephanus Bishop of Rome misliked by Dionysius Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 2. 3. 4. 5 c. sharply reproued by Cyprian accusing him of presumption and contumacie Epist. ad Pomp. because he threatened excommunication to Hilenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia thinking that such as were baptized by heretikes should be baptized againe Also Cyprian in his Epist. ad Quirinum saying that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacie and that other men should obey him as his inferiors Bristowe saith none of these denied the primacie of Peter I say they al denied the primacie of autoritie although Cyprian in the same place saith For neither Peter whom our lord chose first which argueth no primacie but of order vpō whom he builded his Church when Paule did afterward dissent from him about circumcision did boast him self or take vpon him any thing insolently or arrogantly that he should say he held the primacie and that he ought rather to be obeyed of newe scholers and aftercommers Here you see it had bene in Cyprians iudgement a point of insolencie and arrogancie in Peter if he had challenged the primacie of authoritie and certaintie of trueth against al men But Bristowe saith when there was no remedie but they must yeeld or be Schismatikes because Stephanus would no longer tolerate them they did like Catholike men for all their Councels conforme their newe practise to the old custome and quoteth August de bapt cont Donat. lib. 5. cap. 23. 25. where there is no such matter also he referreth vs to his fift Demaund where he citeth Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 2. 3. 4. 5. but neither is it there testified Only cap. 6. Dionysius chaungeth his iudgement being admonished in a vision and that he had learned that not nowe onely but of olde time both in Aphrica and other places the trueth was receiued c. but of any constraint for feare of being Schismatikes if they dissented from the bishop of Rome there is no word The place of Hierome ad Euagrium which I cited Pur. 374. defending a custome of the whole Church against a custome of the Church of Rome Bristowe saith doth not proue a Church a rule of trueth and Christianitie without the bishop and Church of Rome because Hierome saith as also there I cite Nec altera c. we must not thinke that there is one Church of the citie of Rome and an other of all the world c. By which wordes he sheweth that the Church of Rome if she will be a member of the Catholike Church must conforme her selfe to the Church of all the world and not the Church of all the world conforme her selfe to the Church of Rome Where I say we beleeue the Catholike Church hath no chiefe gouernour on earth but Christ vnto whome al power is giuen in heauen and earth Bristowe obiecteth suppose that one Christian King or Emperour should reigne sometime as farre as the Church reacheth To this impossible supposition I aunswere that one King should haue no more authoritie than euerie King hath nowe But Bristowe obiecteth that Kings and Queenes be no more named among S. Paules officers c. Ephes. 4. 1. Cor. 12. and therefore as a Puritane belike I would pull them downe In the motiue of Apes he discharged me from being a Puritane by his censure but now he burdeneth me to be a Puritane so farre that I should also be a traitour as he and all his fellowes are To his wise obiection I aunswere that as Kings and Queenes are not named among Saint Paules officers so they are no Ecclesiasticall but ciuill Magistrates and the Church may be without them as it was many hundreth yeares Yet when Kings and Queenes are Christians they haue chiefe authoritie ouer persons and in causes Ecclesiasticall as farre as the godlie Kings of Israel and Iuda had Dauid Solomon Iehosophat Ezechias Iosias c. But Christ professing that all power is giuen him Matthew 28. signifieth that with good authoritie he might commit what authoritie he would and therefore biddeth all his Apostles goe teach and baptize◠and to one of them singularly feede my lambes and my sheepe No maruel though my ignorance in the scriptures be often reproued when such learned conclusions come from Bristowe Christ saide to one feede my lambes and sheepe therefore he saide it singularly and he hath vniuersall charge and all his successors to But for the Popes supremacie the Apostle saith expresly 1. Cor. 12. the heade vnder Christ can not say to the feete you are not necessarie to me But who taught you to foyst in your owne glosse vnder Christ when the Apostle speaketh of the members of a naturall bodie wherevnto euerie seueral cōgregation and the whole church also is like If you seeke the head of euery seuerall congregation you must looke to the chiefe gouernours thereof but if you seeke the head of the whole Church the scripture teacheth but one which is Christ for one head vnder another in one whole body is monstrous But you thinke perhaps Christ as he is head of his Church may say to the feete he hath no neede of them and therefore it must be vnderstoode of an head vnder Christ but then you must remember that although Christ be most perfect in him selfe yet as he vouchsafeth to take vpon him this office to be head of the Church he is not perfect without al his members which is the singular comfort of Gods children Ephe. 1. ver last But Saint Paule Ephe. 4. as Bristowe saith vnder the name of the Apostles includeth the successors of the Apostle S. Peter whose see for that cause is called the Apostolike see in singular maner and their decrees and actes esteemed of Apostolike authoritie in al antiquitie This cause is a shameles and senseles lie for no antiquitie for 600. yeares after Christ so esteemed the see or the decrees therof Again what reason is it that Peters successors should be included more thē the successors of the other Apostles seeing this souereigntie of Peter is not grounded vpon his Apostleship but vpon his Bishoplike office as Sander maintaineth As for the principalitie of Apostleship principalitie of the Apostles chaire which he quoteth out of August de bapt Cont. Don. li. 2. ca. 1. epi. 162. haue often bene shewed to be vnsufficient to make euery one of Peters successors equal with Peter in
authoritie or Peter him selfe superiour to the rest of the Apostles And consequently there is no cause to thinke that calamitie of the Greekes to be fallen vpon them for departing from that see In the 29. Demaund of Traditions where I charge Papistes out of Irenaeus lib. 3. 2. to be like to the Valentinians which accused the scriptures of imperfection saying that they are ambiguous and that the trueth can not be found in them by such as knewe not the tradition which was not deliuered by writing but by worde of mouth c. Bristowe answereth that S. Irenee him selfe as al Catholikes will haue both scripture and tradition Yea sir but what tradition any trueth of doctrine conserued by tradition which is not contained in the holie scriptures nothing lesse But appealeth to the testimonie of the Churches tradition for confirmation of that which is taught in the scriptures Hunc patrem c. This father of our Lorde Iesus Christ to be preached of the Churches they that wil may learne out of the scripture it selfe and vnderstand the Apostolike tradition of the Church seeing the Epistle is auncienter than they which nowe teach falsely c. So that what so euer the Apostles deliuered is contained in their writinges and it is still an hereticall assertion to say that all true doctrine is not deliuered by writing but some by word of mouth In the 34. Demaund of Authoritie where I affirme the order of the Apostles schoole is first to heare the word of God preached and then to beleeue Rom. 10. reprouing Allen which commended his friend that he first beleeued and afterward sought to vnderstand Bristowe obiecteth the authoritie of Augustine lib Retr 1. cap. 14. where he sheweth the cause whie he did write his booke de vtilitate credendi to haue ben for that the Manichees derided the discipline of the Catholike faith that men were commaunded to beleeue not taught by most certaine reason what was true whose slaunder Augustine confuteth in that booke and not defendeth Bristowes preposterous order As for examples of beleeuing Christ and his Apostles without requiring a reason of their doctrine howe vaine it is I leaue to children to laugh at seeing I speak not of reason but of the word of God preached which must needes goe before faith Neither doth Augustine meane any otherwise in his booke de vtil cred cap. 13. where he saith It is rightly appointed by the maiestie of the Catholike discipline that faith before all things is persuaded to them which come to religion But howe should faith be persuaded but by the preaching of the word of God without curious inquisition according to the reason of man Where I say that Protestants wil be ruled by their superiors so far as their superiors are ruled by the word of God Bristow derideth their authoritie who by our own confession may swarue from the truth of Gods word as though the Popish superiors might not or their supreme head although beside so many blasphemous errors as he holdeth wherof the controuersie is with the Papistes it haue not bene oft proued that diuers Popes haue bene condemned euen by generall Councels for heretikes Where I saide the Greeke Church will be ruled by the Patriake of Constantinople and the orientall Churches by their Patriarkes and Bishops Bristowe saith if I knewe the storie of the Florentine Councel wherein the Patriarkes agreed with the Catholikes Church in all things and yet could not reduce their countries from schisme I would not so say But I knewe that storie before Bristow knewe whether he would become a professed Papist or no. This consent is a forged paper found in the hande of Ioseph the Patriarke who died soudenly but in no acte of that Councel any such submission or agreement in all things appeareth but the contrarie Where I saide that to beleeue the Catholike Church is not to beleeue all and euery thing which the Catholike Church doth maintaine Bristowe would haue me suppose the Apostles had said Credo S. Romanam ecclesiam and then asketh howe I would haue construed it Verily euen as I conster Credo ecclesiam Catholicam And so would I conster Credo Sanctas scripturas Canonicas c. But if the Apostles would haue taught vs to giue credite to the Church of Rome in all things they would haue taught vs to say Credo Romanae ecclesiae And Credo scripturis Canonicis duodecim Apostolis quatuor Euangelistis c. I giue credite to the holy scriptures to the twelue Apostles and to the foure Euangelistes For Credo with an Accusatiue case to signifie I giue credite howe so euer you deride my grammatication will not be admitted in the kingdome of Grammarians except his holinesse will doe as much for that terme as he is reported to haue done once for fiatur In the 35. Demand of Vnitie where I said the Church may be called the house of peace because there is in it peace and agreement in the chiefest articles of faith Bristowe saith by this reason many olde heresies were with in the house of peace because any one article be it of the chiefest or of the meanest may breake peace as that of quartadecimani who disagreed onely in the day of Easter but that and such like disagrements in opinion might be in the house of peace as Irenaeus testifieth if obstinate contempt of generall order did not make a schisme and of a schisme an heresie as in the Donatistes Otherwise difference in a ceremonie as I said maketh not diuision of faith Bristowe saith yes if they holde their ceremonie necessarie But then they holde it not as a ceremonie or the Churches ceremonie vnlawfull But that maketh not diuision Polycarpus thought his ceremonie to be the right ceremonie against Anicetus yet he was not diuided from him for he considered the errour in a ceremonie not to be of such importance that it ought to breake the vnitie of the Church And therefore he refused not to communicate with Anicetus nor Anicetus with him No more doe they among vs that differ in opinion of ceremonies except some fewe schismaticall heades that are condemned of all men for their contention and stubbornesse The difference of opinions betweene the Popish Diuines and Canonistes Bristowe saith are such as may be among Christians as Augustine testifieth Cont. Iul. lib 1. cap. 2. de bapt Cont. Don. lib. 1. cap. 18. vntil a general Councel allowe some part for cleare and pure but we will not allowe the authoritie of any generall Councel if Bristowe may be beleeued If we might haue a Christiā generall Councel for such matters as are in controuersie among vs I doubt not but we should agree better then the Papistes which boast so much of vnitie As for the contention of the Popes and Councels superioritie remaineth still among you notwithstanding the Florentine Councel which you say most impudently that I confesse to haue resolued the matter when an other Councel and an other Pope at the same time
succession being a grosse error I will not stand to confute because it is none of the principall matters in controuersie Where I saide that if succession of persons and places were sufficient the Greeke Church is able to name as many as the Latine Church and in as orderly succession Ar. 27. Bristowe asketh what of that but onely this that they therefore may better claime the Church than we Yes this one thing more that by this my shewing of succession in the Greeke Church which you can not denie Allen is bound to recant and that the Greekes by title of succession may claime the Church as well as you But those hereticall and schismaticall Greekes saith Bristowe can no more shewe succession than your false Bishops which are in the sees of Poole Bonner Thirlby c and yet I â—roâ—e he will not thereby claime succession We may by as good right as you claime succession to the Apostles and godly Bishop of Rome whome you succeede not in doctrine For neither haue you any right succession but from them that began your heresies and separation from the Christian Church Boniface the third and his fellowes But Gregorie saith the Church of Constantinople is subiect to the Church of Rome But so doth not the Councels of Constantinople which before Gregories time decreed that the Church of Constantinople should be equall in all thinges with the Church of Rome the title of senioritie onely reserued because Constantinople was newe Rome Socr. li. 5. cap. 8. Sozomen li. 7. ca. 9. Euag. li. 2. ca. 4. Conc. Constantinop 1. ca. 2. c. In the 44. Demaund of the Apostolike see where I say it auaileth not the Papistes that the Church was planted at Rome by the Apostles except they can proue succession of doctrine as well as of men Bristowe saith In prouing the succession of men only we do as much as the Fathers did But I say that is false for the fathers alledge succession of doctrine in the persons succeeding In the 45 Demaund of chaunging where I cite the Epistle of Hulderichus Bishop of Auspurge witnessing that Gregorie was the first that compelled Priestes to liue vnmarried Bristowe answereth that seeing I confesst that he reuoked his error he made no change froÌ„ his fathers faith Yes sir although he reuoked his decree yet was the same receiued by them that came after him But the storie of that Epistle is derided by Cope which affirmeth that Pope Nicholas the first was dead 56. yeares before Vdalrichus was made Bishop Thus these impudent Papists when they can neither corrupt nor wrest to their purpose the monuments of antiquitie they will vtterly denie them Whereas the Papists contrarie to the old vsage of the Church by Allens confession doe absolue before satisfaction Bristowe saith both manners haue bene alwaies vsed and bringeth example of men absolued iâ— sicknesse which if they recouered performed their satisfaction after But Papistes absolue them that are in health before satisfaction which is contrarie to the old vsage Where I tell them that Sabinianus condemned the decrees of his predecessor Gregorie and Stephanus of Formosus Bristowe saith not one Pope hath condemned any decrees made of doctrine It were hard for him to proue that none of those Popes all whose actes their successors disanulled made any decrees of doctrine And certaine it is that Gregorie made decrees of doctrine or else the Popes Canon lawe doth lie al whose decrees yea and bookes also as containing heresie his successor Sabinianus condemned and burned But supposing saith he that Pope Honorius was a Monothelite both in opinion and in some secrete writing yet did he not change nor go about to change the Romanes into Monothelites What meant he then to write hereticall Epistles but to drawe other into his heresie Did not his writings to Sergius Bishop of Constantinople plainely discouer him to the Councel that he followed that heretikes minde in all things and confirmed these vngodly opinions Con. Constantin 6. Action 13. And to what end but betwene them to change the faith of the whole Church both of the East and of the West into Monothelitisme But that you may see a plaine contradictorie vnto Bristowes bolde and lying affirmation I will rehearse the wordes of Pope Leo the second in his Epistle vnto the same Councel Act. 18. Pariterque anathematizamus c. Also we accurse the inuentors of the newe error c. naming them among them Honorius which did not lighten this Apostolike Church with doctrine of Aposto like tradition but by prophane treason did go about to ouerthrowe the immaculate faith Yet against al this testimonie of antiquitie Sander in his Monarchie proueth that Honorius was no Monothelite and that Iohn 22. did not as Caluine and we belie the storie denie the immortalitie of the soule and resurrection of the bodie neither was any such thing laide against him by his contentious enimies but whether the soules doe see God before the generall resurrection but he also denied that error c. To this I must needes say that Bristowe is either an ignorant reporter or an impudent lier except he will say that Caluine or some of vs wrote the report of the Councel of Constance where he was accused and conuicted by witnesse to haue denied the mortalitie of the soule and the resurrection of the body and life euerlasting Session II. And in the next Session he confessed that the Councel of Constance was most holie and could not erre As for the assertion of Pope Ioane the feminine Pope I referre the reader to Maister Iewels replie to Harding where he proueth it by auncienter testes than Martinus Polonus howe so euer Bristowe sawe it in a marginall note I wot not where not in what Protestantes hand as he reporteth In the sixe and fourtie Demaund of our auncetors saued or damned he maruelleth where my wit was when I alledged against Canonization the example of burning Hermannus the heretike in Ferraria where he was worshipped twentie yeares Apocryphally But if he had not bene canonized as you say where was the Popes care of the Church that so neare him in Italie he would suffer such grosse idolatrie so long time to be committed and continued Wherefore except you bring better prose for your negatiue the affirmatiue that he was canonized which so long had bene worshipped without contradiction is more probable seeing you hold that the Romish Church can not suffer any vngodly vsage so long to be vncontrolled Where I saide the Papistes can not proue that the Pope and Popish Church hath canonized the Apostles principall Martyrs Bristowe asketh if making of holie daies and to name them in diptychis among Saintes in the holy Canon of the Masse is not proofe sufficient of their canonization No sir if that be canonization which your late Canons and practise doth allowe but if it were I say the Apostles and principal Martyrs had daies of remembrance of their godly life and doctrine names
in the tables and at the celebration of the Lordes supper before canonization was thought to pertaine onely to the Pope As for our abrogating of Saintes dayes doth not disproue our Communion with the Saintes which is in consent of their faith not in celebrating of their feastes Concerning the canonization of King Henrie the sixt Bristowe requireth mine authour for a dilatorie plea because he can not otherwise defend the Popish corruption Mine authour is Edward Hall in his Chronicles of Henrie the seuenth where I said we acknowledge those to be Saintes whose names are written in the booke of life Bristowe like a blacke dogge scoffeth at it and saith we might doe well to set out that booke in print that they might correct their Calender by it Or else the Churches declaration is the most certaine way to knowe who are written in it If none should be written but such as the Pope doth canonize for that is your Churches declaration innumerable Papistes should haue no place therein and not onely Papistes but the true Saintes of God of whome not one among tenne thousand hath bene canonized Where I say the Popish Church doth iniurie to the Saintes of God that she doth not so account them while they liue Bristowe saith I would be called Saint Fulke by mine owne industrie and that out of hande Thus hath he nothing but Heathenish scornes to delude the textes of Scripture which I cited to proue that the Church of GOD counteth all true Christians Saintes euen in this life not by their owne industrie and merites but by the sanctification of the bloud of Christ. He is angrie that I compare the Popes canonizations with the Heathen Senates canonizing of their Goddes saying wee doe the like in canonizing our selues because wee account our selues Saintes and true Christians which is all one and because I shewe the emulation of the Bohemians in solemnizing the memories of Iohn Hus and Hierome of Prage which differeth as much from Popish canonization as their faith and religion differeth from Poperie In the 47. Demand of cōmunion of Saints he boasteth of increase of Papists in England affirming that beside thē which are Catholike in heart and of their communion there be innumerable of them reconciled which he saith to prepare the minds of his friendes vnto their intended massacre and rebellion I suppose in deede there are too many of those dissembling and professed traitors but yet not so many but they may be numbred But howe many so euer they are I doubt not but there are Christians of such number and power in England as are able to giue all the Papistes both on this side the sea and beyond it as blacke a day as the Popes armie found in Ireland if euer they attempt to put in practise their long intended and certainly purposed treasonable deuises In the 48. Demaund where I shewe the fruites of the Gospell being vrged thereto by Allen Pur. 241. to appeare notably in the liberall prouision for the poore of all sorts in England and namely in the citie of London Bristowe calleth it beastly impudencie yet is he not able to name any Popish citie that maketh such prouision but falleth into open railing vpon the corrupt manners of all the citie as though for the fault of many which yet Gods name be praised are not the most the whole citie were not inferior to Sodome and Gomorrhe in wickednesse In which place as being very populous there are many offenders so are they punished if their offences may be knowne But who so knewe London in the time of Poperie and nowe also considereth the manners of the multitude must be a very vnequall iudge if he acknowledge not great reformation in a great number though he can not see it all As for the citie of Rome which Bristowe compareth with Solomon whose Priestes were more excellēt than the report that went of him as by the storie and relation of them which knewe it before this time so by report of some which euen in this time haue visited the same we haue sufficient vnderstanding that without great reformation it still continueth the mother of all abhominations of the earth and reaching forth the cup of poisoned wine vnto such as seeke her whorish familiaritie maketh them therewith so drunke that there is no cause why Bristowe should maruell why nothing confirmeth more our countrimen in Poperie nor alienateth them from the Protestants than to goe and see Rome The eleuenth Chapter What grosse contradictions Fulke is driuen to vtter against him self while he struggleth against Gods Church and the doctrine thereof As in his whole replie he hath drawen almost all the arguments and authorities which I vsed in those two treatises vnto other endes and purposes than for which I brought them so to make a shewe of Contradiction he rendeth a number of my sayings from their proper places compareth them together to make such as know not what a Contradiction meaneth to thinke that I affirme and denie meere repugnancies without any possibilitie to reconcile them But when they are considered according to the circumstance of the place in which they are written I hope there are not many of so meane iudgement but they will acknowledge they are rather the cauils of Bristowe than the contradictions of Fulke The first Contradiction he noteth that I say Art 96. You are neuer able to aunswere the arguments that Peter was neuer at Rome And thē where is the Apostolike see c. And thē on the conirarie side the Church of Rome was founded by the Apostles it was an Apostolike Church For this he quoteth Purg. 361. 363. 374. To this I aunswere In the first part he falsifieth my wordes which are these You are neuer able to answere the arguments that are brought to proue that Peter was neuer Bishop at Rome and then where is all your bragges of Apostolike see and succession c. The Church of Rome might bee an Apostolike see though Peter was neuer there but all your bragges of Apostolike see and succession are vaine if Peter was neuer Bishop of Rome The second Those auncient Fathers did appeale to the iudgement of the Church of Rome against all heresies and among the Catholike Churches especially named the Church of Rome because it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles Pur. 373. 374. Contrat And by the way note here the bragge of the Romane faith Pur. 405. The former proposition is not mine but patched by him yet if I graunt the sense and wordes to be as he hath forged them they are not contradictorie to the latter proposition For heretikes may bragge of that which Catholikes vse to doe and yet not be Catholikes The thirde It had by succession speaking of the Church of R 〈…〉 retained euen vntill their dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Pur. 374. Contra She the Church of Rome hath had no orderly succession of Bishoppes except so many schismes
altar alludeth to the sacrifices of thankesgiuing in the lawe because he vseth also the name of Leuites by which he calleth Gods ministers Let Bristowe nowe goe and say that Leuites also offered sacrifice propitiatoriâ— in the lawe The second flower of mine ignorance is where to deface the sacrifice of Iudas Macha 〈…〉 aeus I say that both the high Priest at that time was a wicked and vngodly man to wit either Iason Menelaus or Alcimus and namely Menelaus the worst of them all three and also that the other Priestes of that time were giuen to the practises of the Gentiles 2. Machab. 4. In so much that it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if hee deuised not the sacrifice of his owne heade yet tooke by imitation of the Gentiles Frst hee maruelleth howe I could thinke that Machabaeus had any commnion with the Gentilizers against whom all his fighting was seeing it is written first of Macab 4 that he chose priestes without spot hauing their heart in the lawe of God I aunswere being such as they were described 2. Machab. 4. hee had hard choise to finde a sufficient number of vnspotted priestes But although he were an enimy of gentility in that corrupt time and state he might be drawen into imitation of the gentiles in some point that had a shewe of pietie although it were not agreeable to the lawe of God His next accusation is that I call them high priestes which were but antipontifices and vsurpers I aunswere I iustifie not their title more then their maners and religion but whereas by his greekelatine word he supposeth that there were other true high priestes in their time he bewraieth his owne grosse ignorance For whereas he saith that the succession of the true high priestes for that time was this Onias Mathathias Iudas Ionathas Simon The truth is that Mathathias and Iudas were neuer high priestes neither doth the Story 1. Macc. 2. or 1. Macc. 3 which he quoteth shewe any thing to proue that they were It sayeth that Mathathias was a priest but not that he was the high priest And Iosephus who did write an history of the Maccabees testifieth plainly that from Iacimus to Ionathan for 7. yeares there was no high priest which Ionathan was made high priest in the yeare 160. Ioseph Antiqu. Lib. 20. Cap. 8. 1. Maccab. Cap. 10. verse 21. which was many yeares after Iudas his brother was slaine Therefore at such time as Iudas should send the offering to Hierusalem there was no such good Bishop as Allen saith but euen Onias cognomento Menelaus as Iosephus calleth him which was depriued both of his life and of his high priesthood at Berytus or as the corrupt story of the Machabes saith at Berea 2. Macc. 13. called in the first of the Machabees Bethzetha But whereas Bristow maketh Ionathas or Simon chiefe priestes in the absence of Iudas and not Menelaus he forgetteth that in those expeditions which Iudas made from Hierusalem for which he quoteth 1. Macc. 4. 5. it is plaine in the same chapter that Simon was sent with an hoast into Galilee and Ionathan went with his brother Iudas ouer Iordane into Gilead which story how he wil reconcile with the 2. Mac 12. either for time or persons I haue great meruaile But that Menelaus as he was then in office of the high priest though vnworthy so that he was at Hierusalem it appeareth by this record of the time The Temple was purged as Bristowe confesseth and it is written 1. Macc. 4. Anno 148. in the 25. of the Moneth Cislewe and in the same yeare Antiochus Eupator by letters sent to Lysias commandeth that the Temple should be restored to the Iewes whereof Lysias writeth to the Iewes the 24. of the moneth of Iupiter Corinthus and king Antiochus himselfe with letters bearing date the 15. of the moneth Panticus sendeth Menelaus to comfort the Iewes 5. Mac. 11. And the next yeare after Anno 149. Antiochus came into Iewrie and did execution vpon Menelaus and made warre vpon Iudas c. 2. Macc. 13. and ordained Iacimus high priest which continued in that place 3. yeares Iosep. Antiqu. Lib. 20. cap. 8. If that this account of the second booke of Maccabees agree not with the story of the first booke as in deede it doth not let Bristowe looke â—â—to it that defendeth these bookes to be Canonicall it is sufficient for me to iustifie that I cited out of this latter booke by the report of the same booke and by Iosephus who knewe the succession of the high Priestes of his nation better than Bristowe whose arrogant ignorance is so much the more odious that hee would charge me with ouersight in that hee is most ignorant him selfe and that against his Maister Allen who supposeth some other to be high Priest or Bishop and not Iudas him selfe The third chapter of my grosse or rather malicious ignorance is saide to be about Antichrist As that the Church of Christ should prepare his way or worke his mysterie But this is a fable of Bristowe neuer affirmed by me As for the other assertions of the time of his reuelation of the Churches fleeing into the wildernesse of the time of Antichristes reigne c. because they are condemned by the onely authoritie of Bristowe without any argument or testimonie of Scripture or Fathers I will referre the reader to such places where I affirme any of them to consider my reasons and to iudge indifferently The fourth point is that the body of Christ is not offered to him selfe but thankesgiuing is offered to him for the offering of his body for vs. Pur. 316. Against this his reasons are these Why sir did not he vpon the crosse offer his owne body as a Man and a Priest to him selfe as to God Sir the Scripture telleth me that Christ being an high Priest by his eternall spirite offered him selfe vnreproueable to GOD Hebr. 9. verse 14. Ergo you will say to him selfe as God because the persons of the godhead are vndiuided Yet I trust you will distinguish the humanitie from the deitie so Christ offered not his body to him selfe that is neither to his humanitie nor to the person of the mediatour which is God and man For though God was made man yet God the Father was not made man nor God the holy Ghost but God the Sonne onely And although it were graunted that Christ offering him selfe to God was offered to him selfe yet it followeth not that men of whome I spake can offer the body of Christ yea whole Christ to him selfe then the which nothing is more absurd An other reason Bristow bringeth that I noted others for saying it is not lawful to pray to God the sonne As though it were al one to pray to Christ to offer his body to Christ him self to him self The fift That I call it a vaine amplification and fond suppositioÌ„ to extend the force of Christes death beyond the limits of his will My words are of
at the Emperors charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them Bristowe asketh me what Emperor or what faith but Catholike or Popish That which I saide of the Syrian Testament was to shewe that the Churches in Chaldea haue preserued the scriptures which yet are not subiect to the Church of Rome with the Emperors profession I delt not but his purpose I suppose was to encrease Christian faith and I am persuaded the reading of the scriptures in the mother tongue will not encrease Popish faith seeing Papists are so vnwilling that the people should read the worde of God in the natiue language Fourthly that I say the fathers alledging the succession of Bishops against heretikes specially named the Church of Rome because those heretikes for the most part had ben somtimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marciō Nouatus Against this Bristowe telleth me that Allen speaketh also of the Arrians Donatists and al heretikes But I spake of those fathers that alledged the succession of Bishops namely Irenaeus Tertullian and Cyprian Irenaeus testifieth of Valentinus Cerdon and Marcion that they were at Rome vnder Hyginus Pius and Anicetus and that Cerdon came often into the Church and made his confession and yet taught his heresie priuily and was excommunicated For Nouatus that he was a Prieste of the Church of Rome Eusebius is cleare Lib. 6. Cap. 42. But Cyprian calleth him Nouatianus whereas Nouatus had beene of Carthage but from thence was also gone to Rome I deny not but the similitude of the names might cause the Greeke writers to be deceiued as Bristowe saith and it may be that the name of Nouatianus in Cyprian is corrupted for Nouatus and the other called Nouatus in steade of Nauatus which name was then in vse But seeing the person of the heretike is certaine it is folly to striue for his name I haue shewed mine authour for Nouatus 〈◊〉 Rome and so for the rest wherefore I haue not bewraied any ignorance therein as Bristowe pretendeth The 17. and last point of mine ignorance is where I shewe wherein the communion of Saintes consisteth In that I say one can not merit for an other no not for him selfe but euery man hath his worthinesse of Christe As though saith Bristowe neither Christ could merite for any other no nor for him selfe because he had his worthinesse of God But I say that Christ because he was God had his worthinesse of him selfe and therefore did merite for vs. And see what secret blasphemie is contained in this comparison of Bristowe Where he would make a similitude of meriting betweene vs which please not God but onely through his mercy with Christe who satisfied the iustice of God But Bristowe chargeth me so to define the cōmunion of Saints that I allow no place for the praiers of the members aliue made for others that are aliue A vile slander when I speake of the grace and giftes of God which as euery one hath receiued of God so of charitie he is bound to imploy the same to the profite of his fellowe members here on earth But if we be bound of charitie to pray one for an other saith Bristowe whie are not these members in heauen as well Because there is not a lawe appointed for them that are in heauen and them that be in earth we knowe praier is commaunded vs we knowe not any praier commaunded them neither are we to trust to any such thing But the Scripture saith that Christes friendes doe reioice in heauen with his penitents in earth It saith so in deede of the Angels and I doubt not of the like affection of the blessed spirites but of their knowledge and if their knowledge were certaine yet it followeth not that they pray for the conuersion of sinners and much lesse that the mutuall offices of loue whereby one member hath compassion with an other can by any meanes touch the state of the deade to receiue any benefite thereby But an other quarrell is where I make the communion of the whole body to be the participation of life from Christ the head If this be all saith Bristow then there is no communion For what communion were it betweene the members of your naturall body if they did onely receiue life from your head and could not vse the saide life to profite one an other c. This man hath great leasure to trifle without any matter Who so shall reade my wordes Pur. 199. which he quoteth shall finde me to say That the communion of the whole body is the participation of life and all other offices of life that euery member and the whole body hath of the head as S. Paule teacheth plainely Ephes 4. If it be any office of a Christian life for one member to assist an other in that it may and as it ought I haue comprehended it but that Bristowe doth wilfully holde my saying and then play with it at his pleasure Yet he chargeth me with belying of Allen that he will haue other workes waies of saluation besides the bloud of Christ because he groundeth all works and waies of saluation in the bloud of Christ. But I reporting his words truly by plain distribution do gather that Allen will haue other workes and waies of saluation beside the bloud of Christ except you will say that is no way nor worke of saluation of it selfe without these waies and works of men If the bloud of Christ of it selfe be one way and worke of saluation and there be other waies and workes though grounded in it then are there more waies and workes of saluation than the onely redemption of Christe which I vnderstand by the bloud of Christ so I haue done Allen no iniurie but he hath offered hainous iniurie to the bloud of Christe and so doe al they which mixed it with any to purchase Gods fauour who is reconciled by none other merite or satisfaction but only by the bloud of the crosse of his Sonne our Lorde Iesus Christe to whome be praise for euer more In the thirtienth chapter or conclusion Bristowe doth only shew that there is in my two bookes stuffe ynough to make an other booke as bigge as this to the discredit of my partie I trust this booke of his as bigge as it is hath wrought no discredite to the cause I maintaine because I haue shewed howe it is stuffed with lies slaunders falsifications and cauillations such stuffe he may haue great store in the diuell his maisters schoole to make a booke tenne times as bigge as this was but for so much as he hath not aunswered any one of mine arguments or refelled any one of mine aunsweres to Allen in any right order leauing the defence of him as he pretendeth to defend the Church I confesse he hath left matter sufficient for any man that will vndertake the confutation of my bookes which this his vnorderly and vnsufficient replie notwithstanding I protest to remaine still in their strength and
by Malachie was he expoundeth out of S. Iohn in the Apocalipse the praiers of the saintes Cap. 35. Also Cap. 34. expounding what is that pure sacrifice foreshewed by Malachie and taught by Christ he saith Oportet enim nos oblationem deo facere in omnibus gratos inueniri fabricatori deo in sententia pura fide sine hypocrisi in spe firma in dilectione feruenti primitias earum quae sunt eius creaturarum offerentes hanc oblationem Ecclesia solapuram offert fabricatori offerens ei cum gratiarum actione ex creatura eius For we must make this oblation to God and in all things be found thankefull to God our maker in a pure mynd and faith without hypocrisie in stedfast hope and feruent loue offering the first fruites of those creatures which are his and this pure oblation the Church a lone offereth to her maker offering to him of his owne creature with thanksgiuing Thus writteth Irenaeus of the sacrifice of the Church which cannot stand with the Popish sacrifice of Christes naturall body and bloud And whatsoeuer Gregory Nyss. Chrysostome or Ambrose write of changing the bread consecrating of the things set forth working of Christes words hath none other meaning but of the spirituall changing consecrating and working of God in the worthy receiuers of this sacrament as in more proper places shall be shewed out of euery one of them The next argument to prooue that Christe spake to the bread is of the custom of the East Church in which the people answered Amen when the words of consecration were pronounced alowde which he proueth out of Ambrose The same appeareth in Augustine sermone ad insants which proueth that it was the custome of the Latine Church in those daies to pronounce the words openlv for Ambrose and Augustine were both of the West or Latine Church and therefore the fecret whispering of the Popish Church is prooued to be but new in comparison belike inuented since transubstantiation came to towne and therefore that custome prooueth nothing worth the answering howsoeuer Sander prefer it before the custome of the elder Church To the which I answer that Amen may be said as well to wordes of promise and more properly then to wordes of performance For Amen doth not only affirm a thing to be so but also wisheth that it may be so But now there is another ancient custome witnessed by Irenaeus out of Euseb. lib. 5. Cap. 24. who reproouing Victor bishop of Rome for excōmenicating the Churches of Asia dissenting from him in the celebration of Easter affirmeth that Soter Anicetus Pius Higinus Telesphorus and Xystus vsed solemnely to sende the Eucharisty to those preists who came out of those quarters where Easter was kept otherwise then it was it Rome Ergo saith he the sacrament is a corporall reall thing which may be preserued caried sent vp and down and so at last receiued And so consequently the wordes in question are words of performance and not of promise Although the consequence is not sure yet the foundation of this whole argument is nought For Irenaeus sayeth not that the Sacrament was preserued carryed sent vp and downe but that it was sent solemnly vnto strangers not into forreine countries but to such as came to Rome neither doeth hee saye that it was sent vnto their lodginges or Innes but for any thing that he sayeth it was sent vnto them beeing present at the time of distribution and celebration of the supper for he sayeth before Nunquam tamen ob hoc repulsi sunt ab Ecclcsiae societate aut venientes ab illis paribus non sunt suscepti Yet were they neuer for this repulsed from the societie of the Church or comming from those partes were not receiued And afterwarde hee sheweth that Anicetus did giue place vnto Polycarpus permitting him to minister the Communion as one whome he honoured So that no reseruation nor sending vp and downe is heereof prooued other then sending the communion by the Deacons about the Church as their custome was But Iustinus sayth expressely that it was sent vnto them which were absent by the Deacons which had no power to consecrate and therefore Caluine reprooueth that custome for an abuse But for as much as Iustinus maketh mention before of the collation of almes which was also blessed and that he affirmeth that the Deacous carried it is not vnlike but that this carriage might be of bread and wine which was then offered in greate quantitie to the reliefe of such poore as beeing letted by sicknesse or imprisonment coulde not be present at the holy assemblies Or if you will needes vnderstande that which was sent to be the sacrament although the Deacons might not consecrate yet might they declare the vertue and force of the consecration and the vse of the Sacrament vnto such as they did carie it from the congregation with which those that vpon necessarie cause were absent were present in spirite might communicate more tollerably then they which among the Papists when thei haue no let refuse to cōmunicate with the priest and after in sicknesse receiue their masse cake communicating with none at all Neuerthelesse it cannot be denyed but such carrying of the sacrament if it were vsed in the eldest Church was an abuse because it hath none allowance in the holy Scriptures of Christes institution but a commaundement to the contrarie for these wordes Take and eate bee wordes of commaunding therefore keeping and sending which are contrarie to these cannot be defended howsoeuer they might be excused Wherefore it is without reason that Caluine is charged with intollerable pride for finding fault with the primitiue Church and bringing no reason of his reprouing For Caluine opposeth the commaundement of Christ the end of the institution which he worthily calleth the trueth against any custome of any man how good soeuer he were Cyprian sayeth wee must not regarde what any man hath done before vs but what Christ which is before all hath done and commanded to be done lib. 2 Ep. 3. The custome of ministring with water was ancient and vsed in the primitiue Church by some as it should seeme by Cyprian otherwise godly men But he concludeth against it Neque hominis consuetudinem sequi oportet sed Dei veritatem Neither must we followe the custome of man but the trueth of God It is therefore a fault to keepe the sacramentall bread and wine or to sende it about because Christ hath neither done nor commanded it to be done but the contrarie to be eaten and dronken This reason of Cyprian is Caluins reason of whose writinges Sander willeth all men to take heede and yet he sayeth they shall finde in them neither learning nor honestie If there be no learning in them there is no great danger of hurt by reading of them I marueile what that is which you Papistes call learning for if it be knowledge of sciences of tongues of auncient writinges of things past of
singularly due but such a worship of which sorte there is but one and in the tenth hee saith such a worshipping that onely is which is due to God who as he hath no fellow in nature so he hath no partaker in honor I aunswere the veneration honor worship or reuerence due singularly to the sacrament is spoken of Augustine in comparison of all other meates and not of all other thinges in generall His wordes are Which did not discerne the sacrament from all other meates by a reuerence singularly due to it that is to say of all other meat onely the sacrament ought to haue that reuerence or honor Euen so the water of baptisme must bee discerned from all other waters veneratione singulariter debita by a veneration or reuerence singularly due vnto it being consecrated to the mysticall washing away of our sinnes and yet no diuine honor must be giuen to the water of baptisme Wherefore S. Augustine meaneth nothing lesse then that the sacrament shoulde bee worshipped as God man really present vnder those visible shapes of bread wine as Sander impudently doth slander him But it is worthie to be remembred saith he That Augustine vseth the word Sacramentum for the substance of Christes fleshe conteined vnder the signe of bread Who wil graunt this vnto Sander well if you will not graunt it he hath reason to prooue it For Augustine saith he would neuer haue granted that either the substance of materiall bread or the forme thereof ought to be honored For honor can be giuē to no vnreasonable creaturs Is this that Sander which defendeth the honoring of images or else be images reasonable creatures But hee careth not what he saith so he may seeme to say something to the matter in hande In deede Augustine woulde neuer defende that diuice honor shoulde be giuen to the sacrament but there is a kinde of honor which may bee giuen euen vnto the vnreasonable creatures not in respect of themselues but in respect of him to whome all honor and glorie is dewe if they be of him taken and appointed to any honorable vse Last of all we must consider what it should meane that Augustine saith The Sacrament may bee honored by our absteining sometimes from receiuing it into our mouthes whereas it is no honor to God if wee shoulde any moment absteine to feede on him by faith and in spirite Therefore it is a worthier kinde of substance which is receiued in the sacrament then the grace is which is the effect of spirituall eating For his grace cannot come except wee first bee made meete to receaue it But his bodie maye come to our bodies and so maie condemne vs before we are meete to receiue it To this friuolous collection I aunswere that there is no honor done to the Sacrament by absteining from it but by humilitie as the similitude of the Centurion declareth who counted himselfe vnworthie that the Lorde shoulde come vnder his roofe Againe Augustine defendeth not the acte of either of both partes as good of it selfe but making that to be indifferent he onely defendeth their intent and meaning which was to yeelde due reuerence to the Lordes sacrament the one by often receauing the other by humble intermission least the offences shoulde in their weake nature breede contempte of so high a mysterie For although wee ought continually to feed on Christ by faith yet it is not necessarie nor conuenient nor possible that the pledge and seale of this spirituall feeding shoulde euerie moment be receaued But only at such times as the Church Elders thereof shall thinke expedient for the renuing of our remembrance and confirming of our faith by the visible tokens of Christes institution So that no worthier substance can bee gathered to bee receaued in the Sacrament then the grace of God And where Sander saith that his grace cannot come except wee bee first made meete to 〈◊〉 I answere that we are not made meete to receiue the grace of God but onely by the grace of God preuenting all preparation of our owne As for his bodie comming into our bodies when it is prooued out of the worde of God it shal be graunted but not before Finally whereas he gathereth it is the same substance of Christ which is receiued of which the Centurion said I am not worthie that thou shouldest enter vnder my roofe I answere he may no more vrge the substance of Christ in the one similitude of the Centurion then he wil alow me to vrge it is not the same substance by the other similitude of Manna which Augustine likewise vseth As for the same words of the Centurion vsed in the Lyturgie ascribed to Chrysostome in adoring the sacrament I denie that any adoration is meant vnto the Sacrament or that those wordes are spoken vnto the Sacrament but vnto Christ in heauen whose Sacrament that is What is said or done in the Masse booke I neither knowe nor care That Origen Hom. 5. in diuersos exhorteth them that receiue the Sacrament to vse that speach of the Centurion it prooueth neither adoration nor carnall manner of presence For immediatly before he hath these wordes Inerat nunc dominus sub tectuns credentium duplici figura vel more Nunc enim quando sancti Deo acceptabiles ecclesiarum antistites sub tectum tuum intrant tunc ibidem per eos dominus ingreditur Et in sic existimas tanquam dominum suscipient Et aliud quando sanctum cibum c. The Lorde doth now also enter vnder the roofe of the faithfull in a double figure or manner For nowe when the holy and acceptable to God the rulers of the Churches doe enter vnder thy roofe then euen there the Lorde by them doth enter And thinke thou euen as receiuing the Lorde him selfe And againe when thou receiuest that holy and incorruptible meate c. Beholde Origen saith Christ entreth in a figure and after such manner as he entreth by his ministers of which entrance hee teacheth man likewise to say Lorde I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter vnder my roofe therefore this saying importeth no substance of the naturall bodie of Christ really present in the sacrament CAP. V. That the fathers of the first sixe hundreth yeares after Christ did adore the bodie and bloude of Christ in the sacrament of the Altar The first which is Dionysius falsely called the Areopagite could be no writer of the first 600. yeares whom neither Euseb. nor Hieronymus nor Germadius gatherers of all ecclesiasticall writers before their time did knowe Concerning his saying I referre the reader to mine answere to Heskins lib. 2. cap. 47. As for Pachymeres cannot be elder then his autor Dionyse on whom he writeth his Paraphrasis The next is Cyprian which lib. 2. Ep. 3. saith that our sacrifice is Christ but Christ is to bee adored saith Sander ergo the sacrifice which is the Sacrament I answere whatsoeuer after any manner is called Christ
intercession of the Apostles in whose honour it was offered at their reliques there is no word although by any figure you vnderstand the Emperors tombe whereof he speaketh to signifie his soule which is rather a rhetoricall exornation shewing howe his tombe was honoured as cap. 67. he sheweth that all the princes of the armie and the Senate worshipped his dead bodie euen as they did when he was aliue which vaine pompe he commendeth as an honour appointed and allowed by God to be giuen to the Emperors But in effect you can shewe no more of Constantius fauouring of your religion but in that one error of praying for the dead to which I oppose his commandement laide vpon Metriades bishop of Rome to heare the cause of Cecilianus Eâ—seb lib. 10. cap. 5. His calling of the Nicen Councel de lit Const. lib. 3. That I omit his admission of the appeale from the bishop of Rome and other like matters shewing his souereigne authoritie ouer the bishop of Rome and other Prelates I said that although Theodoret report that Theodosius the younger praied for his parents foules yet the storie saith not that he praied to Saint Chry so stome for them Bristow opposeth the Tripartite storie and Theodoret in Latine lib. 5. cap. 35. where is nothing of the matter 36. where Theodoret in his owne words speaking of the tombe of Chrysostome saith of Theodosius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He setting vpon the tombe both his eyes and forehead offered a supplication for his parents desiring pardon for them that had done iniurie of ignoraunce These wordes inforce not praier to Saint Chrysostome although praier to the dead was at that time erroniously practised That Allen citeth out of Ambrose of Honorius standing by the holie altars while the solemnitie of his fathers funerall was celebrated maketh little to proue Honorius to haue bene a Papist although in that point I denie not which can not yet of those wordes be proued that he might be occupied in praier for the deade according to the errour of his time One errour can not make a man to be altogether of the Popish faith who is knowne to haue bene of that religion which Ambrose setteth foorth in his writings contrarie to Papistrie in the most and most necessarie pointes vnto saluation The 40. dayes minde which Allen would begge out of that place to resemble their Popish monethes minde I haue sufficiently reproued by shewing the continuance of the fourtie daies solemnitie without intermission That the last day was one of the fourtie and kept with singular solemnitie as is vsuall in such cases which Bristowe opposeth can not make a iust resemblance of the Popish mone thes mindes which are a renouation of a mourning or solemnitie intermitted Where I challenge the Christian Emperors which were before the generall desection to haue bene of our religion Bristowe in a lurious rage noteth in the margent Sce the impudent heretike them whome he condemned before But who is this impudent heretike that condemned those Christian Emperors before or where is there any word of their condemnation Is there no difference betweene reprouing of an errour and condemuing of the person But let that passe among Bristowes impudent and malicious slaunders The Kings of the earth saith he haue not committed fornication with the whore of Babylon when they humblie adored the Church of Rome and licked the dust of her feete as they are commaunded by the Prophet Esai 49. 60. c. This shall be confessed when it is proued that the Popish Church is the spouse of Christe and not the strumpet of Babylon although the Prophet speake not of bodily bowing kissing or licking Where I name Ziska Procopius and George king of Bohemia defenders of the Protestants Bristow saith it was an 100. yeares before the name much more the religioÌ„ of the Protestants was coined as though their religioÌ„ might not be before that name was vsed to cal theÌ„ by But that Edward the third was a Wicleuist who euer heard saith Bristow And who euer heard me say or write that he was a Wicleuist I saide Ar. 34 that king Edward other noble men in his time defended Wickleues cause and for that you may read at large M. Foxes storie of Wickleue CoÌ„cerning the booke of Caro lus Magnus against images I haue aunswered Sander Bristowe else where The booke of Berttam is entituled ad Carolum magnum although Trithemius say it was vnto Charles the king brother of Lotharius the antiquitie of which inscription is elder then Trithemius except he bring better arguments then his bare affirmation But Bertram went about the bush in Bristows fansie durst not openly declare his opinion against real presence transubstantiation therefore Charles the King or Emperor did hold this opinion He that will read the booke shal see he doth plainly expresse his iudgement against the corporall presence and as for transubstantiation there was no question thereof in his time In the 21. Demaund of Churches where I say the Papistes had wonne no more if we could shewe neuer a Church but such as haue bene builded by Papistes and to Popish vses then the idolaters against the Apostles which could shewe no temples but builded vnto idols Bristowe saith the challenge were not one because the Apostles renounced both those temples and their religion we renounce Popish religion but not all their Churches The cause whâ—e the Apostle renounced their temples was for that manie of them were not for the vse of Christian religion although if credite may be giuen to our countrie histories the Pagans temples were conuerted to Christian Churches both by the Brytons Saxons But those conuerters saith Bristowe were the founders of them be it so yet were they not the builders of them Yet such as were builded by Christian princes were builded that their soules might be praied for in them as that Church of the twelue Apostles builded by Constantine the great whereof mention is before c. Of so manie Chruches as he builded onely in building that one he had that erronious conceit Where I say the olde Churches were builded onely in the honor of God and the Popish temples in the honor of creatures Saints and Angels Marie wellymet quod Bristowe They were called Basilicae Martyrum ApostoloruÌ„ the Apostles and the Martyrs Churches c. Ergo They were not builded to the honour of God onely but to the honour of creatures when the olde writers whome I cite Ar. 53. 55. affirme that a temple belongeth onely to God And Augustine expresly denieth that they were the temples but the memories of those Martyrs whose names they bare and as foraltars he vtterly denieth them vnto creatures Where I said that Constantine made his great grants to the married Bishops of Rome Bristowe crieth blessing on Iouinian Whie Bristowe Was there neuer any Bishop of Rome married Was there no priest married in Hierome and Augustines time although Iouinian could not persuade
teaching and writing against it The 10 The true catholike Church hath alwaies resisted all false opinions contrarie to the word of God as her dewty was and fought against them and obteined the victorie and triumphed ouer them Ar. 11. Contra In those antient times they of the true Church did not alwaies weigh what was most agreeable to the word of God but if heretikes had any thing that seemed to haue a shew of pietie or charitie they would drawe it into vse So they tooke into the Church of Christ many abuses and corruptions vntill at the length An. 607. the religion of the papists preuailed And since that time that diuelish heresie hath alwaies increased in error vntill the yeare 1414. Pur. 419. Ar. 35. 36. The former proposition is directly spoken and meant by me of heresies against the truth and other articles of faith That which is mine in the latter patchery and falsification is spoken of small errors and idle ceremonies The 11 That blasphemous heresie of purgatorie which is most blasphemous against Christ against the blood of Christ against his merites and satisfaction for our sinnes and against Gods vnspeakable mercies and occasion of most licentious wickednes in all them that beleeue it nothing conuenient for the disciples and members of Christ. No suffrages were made for the dead by the Apostles or their lawfull successors To the reader Pur. 26. 166 184. 177. 269. 362. 363. 419. 186. Contrà here cap. 3. he confesseth that the fathers held it and yet notwithstanding that they were members of the true Church cap. 2. and held the foundation of Iesus Christ cap. 5. all the substance of true doctrine And also that they did inuocate Saintes denying in other places that such be true Christians The like of fasting Pur. â—93 405. I neuer confessed those godly fathers to hold purgatorie in such blasphemous sense as the papistes doe nor yet prayer for the dead or inuocation of Saintes By fasting I knowe not what he meaneth for in the page whereto he sendeth me 141. is no such matter spoken of nor fasting once named 12 The opinion of Purgatorie and satisfaction of sinnes after this life is the verie doctrine of licentiousnesse to maintaine wicked men in their presumptuousnesse For what hast will they make to amendment and newenesse of life when they haue hope of release after their death Pur. 51. 26. 166. 177. 184. Contra As Saint Augustine saith it is but for small faultes or as M. Allen saith for great faultes that by penance are made small And is God such a mercifull father to punishe small faultes so extremely in his children whom he pardoneth of all their great and heinous sinnes Pur. 448. The latter part of this preteÌ„sed coÌ„tradictoÌ„ is not mine but Allens assertion which I rehearse to shew the absurditie of his expositioÌ„ of the happy rest promised Apo. 13. 13 How long soeuer the true Church were hidden whether iâ— were a 1000. years or 2000. yeares this is certaine that out of this Church none could be saued Ar. 73. Contra here cap. 5. he counteth it ynough if the faith of their saluation were in the onely foundation Iesus Christ and that in such a sense as agreeth to men indeed out of the Church The whole faith of their saluation is in the onely foundation Iesus Christ in such such sense as I speake cannot be out of the Church 14 They which hold the foundation that is Christ to wit the Article of Iustification by the onely mercy of God and of the onely sonne of God are doubtlesse members of the true Church of Christ. Ar. 61. â—4 Pur. 2â—8 Contra here cap. 10. where he saith that the Anabaptists are abhominable heretikes and that they are not ProtestaÌ„ts who yet do hold that article iâ—mp as the ProtestaÌ„ts do It is a loudly and neuer saide of me that the Anabaptists do hold that article iump as the protestants 15 A generall departing from the faith was foreshewed and it was fulfilled An. 607. Contra The Church was neuer lost neither when the departing was generall but hidden in the wildernesse that is from the eyes of the world She is to this day preserued and shal be to the worlds end Christ hath neuer wanted his Spouse in earth he hath euer beene a head without a body Ar. 36. 38. Ar. 71. 78. 79. 80. The generall departing from the faith was not of all persons but of most in all nations and therefore the Church neuer failed 16 The primitiue Church of the Apostles hath continued vnto this day by succession not of persons and places but of the doctrine faith and trueth These verte wordes conteine a manifest contradiction For how can a Church or doctrine faith and trueth continue but in persons and places in so much that he saith also We doubt not but God hath alway stirred vp some faithfull teachers that haue instructed his Church in the necessarie pointes of Christian Doctrine Ar. 2. 96. 26. 27. These wordes conteine no contradiction For the Church may continewe in persons and places although not by continual succession of persons in the same places Bristow forgetteth his rules of contradiction opposing coÌ„tinuance by succession of persons and places to continuance in persons and places 17 The true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast inseparable from Christ her head though the blinde world when they see her will not acknowledge her to be his Spouse but persecute her as if she were an adultresse Contra in the same place The true Church vnder the Emperours Constantinus Constans and Valens was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius And in another place The visible Church may become an adultresse and be diuorsed from Christ. And so is that faithfull Church of Rome become an harlâ—â— This contradiction is made vp with a falsification of my wordes The true Church vnder the Emperours Constantius c. For I say not the true Church but speake generally of the Church which suffered persecution vntill CoÌ„stantine which was the visible Church vnder which name many heretikes were persecuted Visible Church is not alwaies the true Church The 18 The true Church consisting of Gods elect and the liuely members of the body of Christ shall neuer commit such adulterie c. But the visible Church may separate her selfe from Christ. As though there were an other Church besides the visible Church and so two churches Contra Wheresoeuer the Catholike Church be in partes it is one body of Christ. There are not two Churches but one The catholike Church is alwaies inuisible the militant Church on earth which is a part thereof is to the world sometime visible and sometimes not seene of the world The 19 Anno. 607. the Church fled into the wildernes that is out of the sight and knowledg of the world there to remaine a long season where all this while God hath preserued her vntill such time as he thought good now in our dayes to bring her
but this is sufficient that neither facere in Cyprian signifieth to sacrifice neither the bodie of Christ was otherwise sacrificed of him then as it suffered in his sacrifice The 20. circumstance of the pronowne Hoc Christ saith doe or make this thing or as Haymo saith Make this bodie for he saith not sic facite doe so but hoc facite doe or make this thing I haue answered sufficiently this making in the first booke where Sander findeth fault with our translation wherevnto I adde that which Cyprian writeth in the Epistle last mentioned Nam si in sacrificio quod Christus est non nisi Christus sequendus est vtique id not obaudire facere oportet quod Christus fecit quod faciendum esse mandauit cùns ipse in Euangelis suo dicat si feceritis quod mando vobis iam non dico vos seruos sed amicos c. If in the sacrifice which is Christ none but Christ is to bee followed verily that wee ought to obey and to doe which Christ did and commaunded to bee doone seeing hee himselfe saieth in his Gospel if you shall doe that which I commaunde you nowe doe I not call you seruants but friendes In this saying Cyprian referreth the verbe facere to all thinges that Christ did and not to making his bodie But if wee shoulde graunt facere to signifie onely to make yet coulde Sander get no more of vs by making but a sacrament of his bodie yet for his exposition hee saieth hee hath Iustinus Printed by Robert Steuens at Paris Anno Dom. 1551. where hee writeth thus The Apostles in their commentaries which are called Gospels haue deliuered that Iesus gaue them thus in commaundemeÌ„t who when he had taken bread and giuen thanks said Doe and make this thing for the remembrance of mee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say my bodie First Sander hath put in more wordes then Iustinus for hee hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for which Sander giueth Doe and make hee might as well haue added and sacrifice Secondly the whole weight of the matter standeth vppon the errour of the Printer omitting one small letter o for in the next lyne continuing the hystorie of the institution he rehearseth the verie words of Christ. This is my bloude wherefore there is no doubt but lustinus telling what Christ saide doth not onely rehearse these wordes Doe this in remembrance of me but also these This is my bodie and so haue all the translatoâ—s taken it as Sander doth confesse Neither doth the processe of Iustinus prooue that he did write 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because he saide before they tooke the meate that was consecrated by the worde of prayer to bee the flesh and bloude of Christ for that the Apostles do witnesse that Christ hath giuen them such a precept Hoc facite doe or make this thing that is to say my bodie for hee prooueth it by the whole hystorie of the institution remayning in the commentaries of the Apostles in which it is written that Christ saide Doe this in remeÌ„brance of me This is my bodie likewise after he had taken the cup and giuen thanks that he said This is my blood This processe therefore declareth what Christe said as wel in the one part as in the other and therefore excludeth the vaine cauillation of Sander grounded vpon a letter missing in one print which in other copies is not omitted as all the translations declare The 21. circumstance of the wordes in meam commemorationem for the remembrance of me The ende of the institution was the remembrance of Christes death but that is best remembred by the presence of him selfe ergo he is really present for Christe would make the best remembrance that could be I answere Christe saith in the remembrance of me and not onelie of his dying but of me dying and redeeming It is against the nature of recordation or hauing in minde to haue the thing remembred actually present therefore Christ ordained the best memorial that could be reteining the nature of recordation and considering other circumstances to be considered as he did in al tokens that euer he made which were the best that could be deuised for God in al things doth the best wherfore this reasoÌ„ of Sand would proue the reall presence of Christ in all sacraments that were before his incarnatioÌ„ as wel as in this And whereas Chrysostome saieth Christ himselfe is daily set before vs that we shoulde not forget him he meaneth as saint Paul to the Galathians where he saith he was crucified among them and to the Corinthians saying his glorie shewed vnto vs with vncouered face which is by doctrine more cleare then the figures of the Lawe Gal. 3. 2. Cor. 3. and not in the Sacrament onely Last of all whereas a potte of Manna was commaunded to be reserued for a memoriall vnto the children of Israel with what breade the Lord had fedde their fathers in the wildernesse to prooue that a thing may be the remeÌ„brance of it selfe I answere that it is nothing like For there a part of that visible foode was reserued for a sensible token of remembrance not of it selfe but of that which was eaten being of the same kinde But in this sacrament there is no such matter except wee shoulde beleeue the tales of a bloudie finger seene in the patten c. as a part of the whole bodie c. and the Papistes confesse that Christ is not sensiblie present as that Manna was The 22. circumstance of these words drinke yee all of this They all dranke of one cuppe Iudas and al saith hee for if two or three had drunke vp all either Christ must haue consecrated the cuppe againe or the rest must haue receiued a drinke not consecrated as they do in Englande when one cuppe is drunke vp an other is filled out of a prophane potte that standeth by therefore this circumstance doth shewe that more then wine is drunke This conclusion shal be graunted of them that drinke worthily without this circumstance and of them that drinke vnworthily also for they drinke iudgement to themselues But concerning consecration Sander imagineth it to be a magicall murmuring of wordes ouer that wine which is present in one cuppe Whereas the consecration of Christ and the ministers of England is a dedicating to the holy vse of the supper of so much bread and wine as shal be occupied in the celebration and neither more nor lesse But because he saith it is not the will of Christ that one Priest should consecrate in one maâ—â—eany more then once each kinde of the sacrament because Christ dyed but once and then both kinds together because his bloud and soule must be signified apart from his flesh and bodie I aske him what large cuppe they had or howe often in a day they said masse in the time of Leo bishop of Rome when a
great Cathedral Church as bigge as Paules Church in London was diuerse times in one day filled with communicants Leo Ep. 79. I meruaile what vessell of wine was consecrated to serue them all if it be necessarie to haue it in one cuppe when it is consecrated as Sander seemeth to affirme or else howe manie cuppes they had standing on the table that could suffice so great a multitude that all must drinke of the bloud of Christ though there be diuers chalices which hold it when the people are manie as Sander saith I doubt not vnderstanding the bloude of Christ sacramentally but I meruaile with what face he can reprooue our ministration with prophane wine if we did minister so as he slandreth vs when hee and his fellowes doe altogether rob the people of the sacrament of Christes bloude and giue them nothing but prophane wine The 23. circumstance of these wordes this is my bloude Because it is in the common vulgar translation Hic est sanguis meus Sander maketh not a litle adoe that hic can agree with none but sanguis but when the Greeke is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc of the newter gender it may well be translated this thing and so the relation must be to the wine like as the other Euangelist render it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this cup that is the wine in this cuppe for bloude it cannot be before the words of consecration if they will holde their owne principles And therefore the best interpreters to take away cauilling turne it Hoc est sanguis meus This thing is my bloud as this thing is my body where est may still stand for significat And yet I denie not but hic est sanguis and haec est caro may well be vsed as Cyprian doth in the same sense for a relatiue betweene two antecedents or an adiectiue betweene two substantiues of diuerse genders may agree with either of them without any change of the sense as in Genesis Cap. 2. Adam saith of the woman Hoc nunc os ex ossibus meis caro de carne mea haec vocabitur virago This is nowe bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh she shal be called woman Here the Pronoune is of both the genders and yet there was conuersion of a bone into a woman Likewise God speaking of the Rainebowe which is there the Masculine gender Gen. 9. saith hoc est signum foederis where hoc agreeth with signum yet the sense is hic arcus est signum this bowe is the signe Absolom Sam. 2. Cap. 18. erected a piller called in the vulgar translation tiâ—â—lum which is of the masculine gender and thereof saith Hoc erit monimentum nominis this shal be the moniment of my name meaning this pillar and yet hoc agreeth not in gender with it I might multiply examples infinitely if these were not sufficient to shewe the vanitie of Sander which of the gender of the pronowne would prooue the speach not to be figuratiue Where hee saith we builde a roofe without walls or foundation as Hierom saith of heretikes that neglecting the literal sense builded al their fantasies vpon allegories I answere we doe not so but rather the Papists which builde a sacrament without an element denying breade and wine to remaine in the supper as for the literall sense of scripture we beleeue to be the onely true sense although the words many times bee vnproper and figuratiue euen as Sander himselfe both in his rotten Rocke and in this booke taketh this to be the literall sense of these words I will giue thee the Keyes of the kingdome of heauen meaning authoritie What the new testament is whereof the holy scripture speaketh A testameÌ„t he saith is a solemn ordeining of a thing by words confirmed by death of the testator dedicated with a sacrifice offered to God bloudily The newe Testament is a couenant or truse made by Christ with vs to haue forgiuenesse of sinnes if we keepe his lawe The bloude of the old Testament was put in a basen the bloude of the newe Testament in a Chalice I omit that hee saith the promise of the old Testament was but of a temporall inheritance for keeping the lawe But to returne to the newe Testament which he so handleth that there is neither rime nor reason in his argument Three things saith hee are required in a solemne Testament the couenant bloudshedding and application of the bloude When Christ saieth This is my bloude of the newe testament either all these or one of these may bee called the newe testament But when saint Luke and saint Paul reporte Christ to haue saide This cuppe is the newe testament in my bloud they seeme saith hee to take the worde Testament for the substance of the thing which doth confirme the new testament not properly for the newe truse or promise thereof What say you Sander is there any vnproper speech in the words of consecration is a substance expressed by the name of an accident where be the nownes pronownes verbs paticiples where be the relatiues antecedents cases and genders that fight for the proper sense of hoc est corpus meum why serue they not heere But heare a little more This that is in the Chalice saith he is not the promise of remitting sinnes but it is the new testament in Christes bloud That is to say it is the thing that confirmeth the newe lawe Why sir euen now you told vs that it might be called a new testament as it is a law couenant or promise Will you make vs beleeue that the Euangelistes reporting one saying of Christ which can haue but one sense in the one of them the newe testament is taken for a promise in the other it is not taken for a promise But let it bee the thing that confirmeth the promise what thing is that I pray you His bloud you will say Why then the sense of these words the newe testament in my bloude is my bloude in my bloude This cuppe is my bloude in my bloude What sense is this But Sedulius I trow helpeth you much in 1. Co. 11. Ideo colix c. Therfore the Chalice is called the testament because it did beare witnesse that the passion should bee soone after now it testifieth that it is done although you are faine to alter the common reading to put in testamentum for testamenti How prooue you by these wordes that Sedulius was of your minde Alas he hath nothing to say but being taken with a figuratiue speach he slinketh away like a Dogge that is whipped with his taile betweene his legges For these wordes of Christ This cuppe is the newe testament in my bloude if all the Grammarians in the worlde haue them in hande to construe cannot haue a Grammaticall sense but must needes bee taken figuratiuely and being so taken chaseth transubstantiation out of the doores for the true sense of them can be none other but this