instructions Of the order that must be holden in the correction of euery mans faults accordyng to the nature and qualitie of the same M. SEing that the Discipline of the Churche is ordeyned for the correction of euerye man of what estate or degrée soeuer he be tell me what order there must be kept in the Ecclesiasticall iudgements towards all those towards whom they are quired P. First of all there must be diligente héede had to the nature and cōdition of the faults and vices whiche deserue iudgement and correction For some there be which require but simple admonition others there are whiche require reprehension and correction the one the more softe the others more sharpe according as men deserue and as tyme and place requireth and as the offences may be either greater or lesser M. And in what sort must men there procéede Muste these censures and corrections be done secretely or publiquely P. Here muste againe be considered the condition of the faultes For if they bée small and secrete a secrete censure and correction maye suffise M. But if they be of great importance and open P. It shall also be néedful that the censure and the correction be the more notable that they whiche haue offended openly be rebuked openly accordingly as S. Paule commaundeth M. And if one haue committed a great fault openly muste it be published for the first Pe. If it be open it is alreadie published Wherfore it is also néedful that the correction be in publique to the ende that the offence be also amended openly to serue to others for an example or otherwise the fault could not be well amended to satisfie the churche according as the discipline therof requireth Of excommunication and of the greatest rigour of the same M. ANd which is the greatest correction that the Churche may vse according to that discipline which is gyuen vnto hir by Iesus Christ P. It is excommunication M. What doth this excommunication emport P. The name therof declareth sufficiently vnto thée that it is an Ecclesiastique correctiō wherby it is declared that they shoulde be at the least shut from the communication of the Sacraments which are worthy of such censure M. Emporteth it nothing els P. yes in déede if it be taken in his extreme rigour M. What is it then that this extreme rigor importeth more yet P. It importeth acording to the expresse word of Iesus Christe that they which haue deserued it are holden and estéemed among Christiās as pagans and infidels in suche sorte that they are not only not receyued to the communion of the Sacraments of the Churche but that also the faithful and true Christians do withdrawe and separate themselues from all familiar conuersation with them to the ende they maye learne to be ashamed of their faultes and to acknowledge them the better to the ende they may attayne true repentance to reconcile and agrée themselues with the Churche of GOD whome they haue offended Of the force of laufull excommunication and of the povver of the keys giuen to the church M. THey are not then shut foorth from the communion of the Sacramentes of the Churche to the ende they shoulde alwayes remayne oute of the Churche Pe. If they continue obstinate in their sinnes not shewing apparaunte testimonie of repentaunce nor reconciling them to God and to hys Churche by the meanes therevnto ordeyned they doe not onely remayne shut foorth from the Communyon of the Sacramentes and from the companye of the faythfull but also from the kingdome of heauen and from eternall lyfe Math. Excommunication is not then a matter of small censequence but is much more to be feared than is a corporall punishement Peter It is certaine if it bée lawfullye doone for so muche as Iesus Chryste hathe giuen to hys Churche the keyes of the Kyngdome of Heauen with suche power as what so euer shée should loose or bynd in earth according to his word shuld be also bound or vnboūd in heauen M. But if the sinner acknowledge his faulte and yelde a true signe of repentaunce and desire to be reconciled and at one with the Churche it is granted vnto him Pe. Euen as the Churche hath power to bind the obstinate so hath she power to loose the penitent and euer according to the worde of God prouided that they accomplishe that whiche true repentaunce and the true discipline of the Churche doe require M. And when the Churche hath in such sort either boūd or loosed any one by the censure of excōmunication wilt thou conclude that God also holdeth him for bounde or loose P. Euen as the Sacraments are not playes for little Children nor playes fained of pleasure but are ordinances and testimonyes of God which represent by exterior ceremonies the spiritual things which in déede are communicated to the faithfull by them So is not excommunication a vayne ceremonie as a iuggling but a sure testimony of God which he hath ordained to signifie and declare which they be that he auoweth for members of hys Church or els that he holdeth for rotten members cut of and cast out of the same and consequently from the kingdome of heauen into the which none maye enter excepte he bée in déede first a member of the Churche and by the meane of the same If excommunication may extende further than to the disobedient M. SEeing then that excommunication belōgeth properly to the disobediēt may they then excōmunicate those which acknowledge their fault how great so euer it be and do giue testimonie euident inough of their repentance before they be excommunicated P. Thou must vnderstande that all disobedience deserueth excommunication and chéefly when a man hath bene admonished thrée times according to the order giuen by Iesus Christe concerning the same and doth not amēd his faults when they be offensiue and of euill example and that they be not onely little infirmities and ignoraunces the which men may not as easily correct as they would but are great offences M. I do well graunte thée that fo◠rebellion and contempt of admonitions and warnings is a very great fault and a very euill exāple in the Church of God which ought not there to be endured P. Thou hast also to note that albeit a sinner doe acknowledge his faulte at the first or second admonition and warning that shall be giuen him yet for all that it may be suche that for example the sinner may deserue to be at the least suspended from the communion of the sacraments for a time M. Why so if there be no manifest rebellion P. In part to proue the better the repentance of the sinner and in time the better to iudge whether there be fayning in it or no and apertly to giue example to others to the ende they may he the more afrayde to offende and that al togither they may learne the better to honour the Sacramentes and to take heede howe they contaminate and prophane them by their slaunderous vyces For as it
receiued of him in Iesus Christ and to communicate dayely in the same more and more and to yelde him thankes by the meanes of hys holy Sacramentes euen as he hathe commaunded Fynally hée hathe also ordeyned them to separate vs in matter of Relygion from euery assemblie and from all persons whiche followe any doctrine or relygion contrarye to hys and to make common and solemne profession and protestation of the Fayth that wée haue in hym and of the doctrine and Religion whiche wée follow Of the obedience that all men doe owe to the ministerie of the Gospel and of those whiche doe despise it and of the protestation and profession of the christian doctrine whervnto euery one is bound Chap. 32. FOrsomuche as it is so it is certain that God hath bounde all men to that ministerie wherfore all they that will be accompted for true Christians are bounde to yelde themselues obedient to the same chiefly in thrée thyngs The firste is in hearing the doctrine which is sette foorth to the Churche by the meane of that holye Ministerie The seconde is in making cōfession and profession of the same by the Communion of the sacramentes whiche are as dependaunces and as the markes of Christians when they are administred according to the order after the whiche they were ordeyned by the Lorde The thirde is in submitting him selfe to the christian discipline the which the Lorde hathe ordeyned for the policie according to whiche he wil that his churche be gouerned not after the lawes and traditions of men but according to hys pure word The which discipline and pollicie is so necessarie that without it the ministerie of the Church can not be honored and mainteyned as is requisite but that of necessitie all must be there in confusion Wherefore all those that will not be subiecte to those thinges declare them selues to be rebells to god to his church and vnworthie to be accōpted true members of the same and true Christians Of the number of Sacraments of the true Christian Church Chap. 33. AS concerning Sacramentes whiche oughte to be holden properly for lawfull sacraments he hath ordeyned two in the Christian Churche the firste is Baptisme the other is the supper The others that haue bene added to these by the Papistes may not be accompted for true and lawfull Sacraments for so much as they haue no certayne foundation in the word of God without the which no Sacrament is lawfull Of baptisme and of the true vse of the same Chap. 34 AS for baptisme it is a sacramente in the which the lord doth represent vnto vs our regeneratiō Whereof the baptisme is as the seale and as a visible testimonie whereby he testifieth vnto vs first that he receyueth vs into his house which is his Church and that he doth aduowe vs to be his children and to be heires of his kingdome After that he doth testifie to vs also that he hath purged and clensed vs from our sinnes by the bloud of his owne Sonne and that he hath regenerated vs as newe creatures by his holy spirite as the water which is the signe of this holy sacrament doth testifie and represente in dede For that representation is not vaine withoute the truth true communication of the things spirituall whiche it doth represente towards those that be faithfull which haue the instrumente to receiue them to wit faith without the which we may haue no communication with Iesus Christ Of the baptisme of yong children Chap. 35. ANd albeit that the little children can not haue faith by the hearing of the word of God as the great may yet notwithstanding this sacramente doth not apperteyne only to those that are of years and are capable of the preaching of the Gospell and haue alredy made profession of their faith or are in age to do it but it belongeth also to their children bicause they be comprised in the aliāce the which their parents haue with God thorough the vertue of the promise that he hath made them Wherefore the Catabaptists and all others that reiecte litle children from baptisme do them wrong and do frustrate in that respecte the vertue of God his aliance for the Children of the Christians are in no worse case thā were those of the Iewes whome God woulde not haue shut forth from circumcision in steade whereof the Christian Churche hath now baptisme Of the children that are borne dead and of the true foundation of the saluatiō of all men Chap. 36. ANd although that this sacrament bée ordeyned to that end it followeth not for all that that we must thinke that the little children whyche dye by the will of God before they can receyue this outewarde Baptisme be in any daunger of their saluation only for want of this baptisme forsomuche as it hapneth not thorowe contempt of this holy Sacramente For their saluation nor that of any man whatsoeuer is not tyed to the visible signes of baptisme nor of the Supper but dependeth of the onely election and grace of God by meane of the benefite of Iesus Chryst and of the vertue of his holie spirite and then he communicateth this benefite to his electe in suche tyme and by suche meanes as please him and worketh in them at all tymes according to his good pleasure For he may sanctifie them euen in their mothers bellie as he hathe done many whereof wée haue apparant witnesse in the holy Scriptures Of the administration of the Sacraments and to whom it belongeth Cha. 37. ANd séeing that the Lorde hathe giuen the charge of administration of the Sacraments euen vnto those selfe same to whome he hath committed the administration of his worde then is it not lawfull for any to administer them but for suche only to whom that charge is giuen by iust and lawfull vocation of God and of his Churche in the which it is not lauful for any man to take in hand any thing without lawfull vocation Of the Baptisme administred by women and of the errour that therein is Chapter 38. WHerfore they are greatly to be blamed and chiefly women whiche take in hande to baptise children For the baptism whiche they take in hande to administer hathe none other foundation but onely vppon the ignorance that is in them of the true vse of Baptisme and vppon the superstition wherein they haue ben nourished For according to the doctrine of the Papistes men haue thoughte that the saluation of little children hath ben tied and knit to the outward and visible Baptisme and not to the inuisible inward baptisme of the holy ghost whiche inward baptisme is the true substance of the true baptisme wherof the outward signe is a figure and representation Of the Supper of our Lorde and of the true vse thereof Chap. 39. AS for the Supper it is also ordeined first to confirme vs and as it were to seale vs in the same the remission of sins the which we obtain by faith
not with these thrée things following The first is a true acknowledging and sorowfulnesse for his sinnes towards God whiche can not be withoute true confession of the same towards god The second is a stedfast beliefe of the forgiuenesse of his sinnes by Iesus Christe and a true assurance of saluation through him The thirde is a true and perfecte charitie towardes our neybor For this holy Sacramēt requireth all these things for so much as it is the sacramente of the agréemēt and vnion that we haue wyth God by Iesus Christe and with all hys Church and all the true members of the same Wherefore it must be of necessitie that euery mā examine him selfe in these points that he may go to it worthily and not to his condemnation according to the doctrine of Sainct Paule to that purpose Of the penance and sanctification of the Christians and of the true originall of the same of al good works Chap. 44. AS concerning the repentance and pēnance which is required of euery christian the holy Scripture vnderstandeth not thereby that whiche improperly the Papists call pennance For they through greate abuse and ignoraunce of the language do call penance their satisfactions by the whiche they thinke to satisfie God by their owne works and by their Ceremonies and superstitions But the worde of God taketh pennance and repentance for a true acknowledging and sorowe for sinne the which true acknowledging and true displeasure do procéede of the true feare of God and of a true reuerence and loue towardes him conioyned with a certayne assurance of his goodnesse and mercie and with a true amendmente of life by the whiche a christian man doth dedicate him selfe to the seruice of God as in time before he was dedicated to the seruice of the Deuill to the end he may serue to iustice and holynesse where before he serued sinne iniquitie For in this lyeth the sanctification of man the which sanctificatiō is the very frute of true faith which worketh thorough charitie as she is the originall of euery good worke Of the true and Christian confession and absolution and of the remission of sinnes Chap. 45. AS concerning confession and absolution the worde of God doth not acknowlege or receiue any such as the Papists do make in the eare of their préests to haue absolution and remission of theyr sinnes by them For the holy Scriptures shewe vs none other that can pardon sins but only god And by consequent they appoint vs none other to whom we must make confession for to obteyne absolution and pardon In like sorte we haue no example in all the true seruantes of God of any other confession and absolution for the remission of sinnes towardes God the which he giueth not but in his Churche and to the true members of the same Of the power of ministers of the Church to pardon or reteyne sinnes Chap. 46 AS for the ministers of the Churche they haue none other power to pardon or reteyne them but so farre as they vse the keyes whiche the Lorde hath committed vnto them as to the ministers of his Churche to whome he hath giuen them and in so doing they do declare by his worde howe the sinnes be forgiuen to those that beléeue and reteyned to the vnbeleuing This is the true absolution of the Christian Churche by the which God doth ratifie and binde or vnbinde in heauen that which they declare and do binde or lose vppon earth by his worde and in his name For this power is giuen vnto them bicause he speaketh by their mouth and it is he himselfe that bindeth and looseth and that dothe pardon and retayne sinnes by that same very worde whereof they are but ministers This is the true and lawfull vse of the keyes the whiche the Lorde hath giuen to his Church the execution whereof the Churche hath since committed to the ministers the whiche she hath chosen therevnto by lawfull vocation Of brotherly reconciliation Chap. 47. MOreouer euen as God woulde that euery man should confesse his faults to obteine forgiuenesse euen so he would that suche as haue offended either the Churche in generall or any of the members of the same and of their brethren in particuler should acknowledge and confesse their faulte so farre forth as the true discipline of the Churche and Christian Charitie do require and that they reconcile themselues with those whome they haue offended and haue done wrong vnto For such thing is required to repaire the slander and offence which they haue made to entertain the peace the vnion and the Christian charitie in the Church Of the satisfaction towarde our neighboure Chap. 48. THis reconciliation bringeth with it also satisfactiō of that wherin euery mā is bounde to his brother so farre forth as he shall be able to do by Christian charitie For albeit that there is none other but the satisfaction of Iesus Christe only that may satisfie for vs at the iudgement of God yet for all that the same doth not abolish this satisfaction which is to satisfie vnto men for so much as it is a frute of the true repentance and of the true iustification and sanctification of a Chrstian man For it is not a signe that a mā doth in dede repente him of his faulte and of the wrong that he hath done to his brother so long as he shall not recompence him according to the meanes that God shall giue him Of the Churche and of the foundation of the same and of hir head Chap. 49. THis faith and doctrine is the true faith and doctrine of the true Christiā church vppon the whiche she is builded and by the which she doth communicate of al the benefites of Iesus Christe of whiche we haue spoken heretofore For we vnderstande by the Churche the felowship and cōmunaltie of all the true faithful which are the members of the body of Iesus Christe whiche do acknowledge him for their only head and none other whatsoeuer but do condemne the Pope whiche maketh himselfe the head as very Antichriste And in like sorte they do also accompt the Church the which acknowledgeth him for hir head not for a true christian Churche but for a Sinagogue of Sathan Of the markes whereby to knovve in thys world which is the true Church and who are to be accoumpted for true members of the same Chap. 50. THe marks whereby men may knowe in this world which is the true church of Iesus Christ are these to wit the lawfull administration of the pure worde of God and of his holy Sacraments and the allowing of the same with true obedience towards the ministerie the whiche the Lorde hath therin ordeyned I do comprehende vnder this alowing and obedience the submission and the discipline the which Iesus Christ hath ordeyned in his Church and the pure and full obseruation of the same as it hath bin obserued and practised in the ancient Churche ruled by the doctrine
this remission of sinnes whereof we nowe speake but also the victorye against sinne death hell and the Deuill and likewise eternall life the whiche Iesus Christ hath wonne for it bycause that she is the spouse of him and that she entreth into communion of all his goodes with him by meane of this spirituall mariage by the whiche she is conioyned to him as a chast virgin by the vertue of faith in him M. Seing it is so the ministerie of the gospel is then a meane by the which this holy aliance of marriage is made that is betwéen Iesus Christ his church for the which cause there is such cōmunion betwene Iesus Christ the husbande the Church his espouse P. Thou concludest very wel For the Lord vseth the same meanes in this spirituall mariage that men haue accustomed to vse in their ordinarie mariages M. Which be those meanes P. Thou doest firste wel vnderstand that no mariage can be made except the husband and the wife do giue the faith of mariage the one to the other the which emporteth all that which belongeth to true mariage M It must néedes be so For the true foundatiō of mariage lyeth in the faith which the husbād the wife do giue one to the other And therefore men say that they whiche haue so giuen their faith are assured by promesse P. Now thou sayest that the husband the wife cannot so giue their faith the one to the other but that there is promesse on both partes the which cānot be done but by wordes by the whiche the husbande and the wife declare their will and consente Mathevve Albeit that the promesse be sufficiente for the assurāce and confirmation of the marriage notwithstanding the custome is yet that the husbande giueth ordinarilye to his wyfe some gift for more assurance and confirmation of their marriage and also of the mutuall obligation that they haue made the one to the other P. Euen the lyke is done by the ministerie of the Gospell betwéene Iesus Christe and his Churche For there is the promise whyche Iesus Chryst made vnto hir and then that is there also wherby the Churche accepteth that promise of hir husbande and by the which she giueth hir selfe to him euen as he hath giuen himselfe to hir And then the sacraments are as rings and iewels and such other gifts which the husbands are accustomed to giue to their wyues for the more cōfirmation and approuing of their mariage M. Séeing then that it is so the ministers of the Church are in maner like touching the spiritual mariage to those whiche make the assurance betwéene the husbande and the wyfe and do declare vnto them the promises by the which they ought to bynd themselues the one to the other and giuing them to drinke or some other suche like token in the name of mariage P. Thou doest not take it amisse and therefore Sainct Iohn which was sent by God to bring to Iesus Christ by the meane of his ministerie the Churche his espouse is called the friende of the bridegrome And Sainct Paule hath written to the Corinthes to the same effecte I am iealous of you with a godly iealousye for I haue ioyned you to an husband to presente you a chast virgine to Christ By vvhat meane men attayne to eternall life and of the benefites comprehended in the communiō of Saincts M. SEing that the communion of saincts comprehendeth al those good things whereof thou hast euen now made mention is that also the cause why that after the remission of sinnes we confesse in like sorte the resurrection of the fleshe and the life eternall P. It is euen so For to attaine to that felicitie which is our ful cōsolation God doth graunt vs the forgiuenesse of our sinnes without the which we cannot attaine to that happie life M. Seing then that this communion of saincts with Iesus Christ the which is his church bringeth with it so greate good thinges whiche are the greatest that man maye wish and obtaine surely they are thē very happie which are comprehended in the same and they very vnhappie which are shut from it Pet. Euery man maye well knowe that For séeing that the Churche is the kingdome of God whereof Christe is the chiefe king there is no doubte but that all those which are strangers shut out of the Churche be also shut out and banished frō the companie of Iesus Christ whiche is the chiefe and king thereof and so consequently of the happie and eternall life M. Who is the cause thereof P. It is forsomuch as if there be no man that may enter into this communion but by the meane of Iesus Christe euen so Iesus Christ cannot be vnited to any mā which is not a member of his Church no more than a heade maye be vnited to another body than his owne and his members and cannot be separated but all the body dyeth Of the excellencie of the ministerie and of the other two partes of the same M. SEing thē that the ministerie of the word of God is vnto vs as a way to bring vs to true repentaunce and to true faith to the ende that afterward we may come euen to Iesus Christ and the communion of all his riches me thinketh we ought to haue that ministerie in great reuerence and in great price P. Esay dothe very well set it foorth when he saith that the féete of those are faire whiche declare peace and the good things whiche he doth and will bestowe vppon his Church M. Thou hast hithervnto spoken of the administration of the word the which is administred by this ministerie but thou hast yet sayde nothing of the administration of the sacramentes nor yet of the discipline of the Church which are the two other partes of the ministerie whereof thou hast made mention P. Al these two administratiōs depēd of the first For the Sacramēts are as dependances of the preaching of the worde of God. M. And what is the discipline P. It concerneth the order and gouernemente of the Churche which hath respecte to the good prouision for the same according to that worde to the ende that all be done in it by so good order that the word of God and the Sacramentes be so administred receyued and honoured as is méete and that all that which might hinder the true seruice of God and the edificatiō of the Church be there taken away The fiftenth Dialogue is of the sacramēts of baptisme and of the Lords Supper Of the Sacraments and of the number of them MATHEVV SEing that we are come vppon the matter of Sacraments shewe me now for the first what thou meanest by Sacrament P. A visible signe ordeyned of Iesus Christ as a seale to confirme vs the better in the saith of the promises the which god hath made vs of our saluatiō in him M. How many Sacraments hath he ordeyned P. There are but two which may be called properly by that name and
good reason of their faith it séemeth to me that a man may gather of thy woords that not only they oughte not to receyue litle children to the Supper but also they ought not to baptise them vntill the time they come to the age in the whiche they may yelde reason of their faith and vnderstand what their baptisme doth signifie P. Thou hast here to note that there is difference betwene receyuing of children to baptisme and receyuing of them to the Supper Mat. What difference fyndest thou in it P. In that that Saincte Paule doth require of those which wolde communicate at the Supper that they shoulde proue them selues to knowe whether they be méete or no and that they be disposed to receyue the same accordingly as thys holye Sacramente doth require whiche thing is not so required in Baptisme Math. What wilte thou conclude thereby Peter That if it must be that euery man proue himselfe before he go to the Supper it followeth then that they are not yet capable of that proofe whiche are not so farre foorthe instructed as they may proue and examine themselues as is méete Of the principall foundation of the Baptisme of litle children and of the vertue of the aliance vvhervppon it is grounded M. I Vnderstand by that which thou hast heretofore saide that none can well proue and examine himselfe to communicate worthily at the supper except that first he vnderstand what misteries and secretes this Sacramente conteyneth and for what cause it was ordeyned But forsomuch as Baptisme is also a seale of the doctrine the which it doth confirme is it not therefore also néedefull that he which shuld be baptised be first instructed in the doctrine whereof it is a Sacrament and that he may yeld reason of it P. If the person be of that age that it be capable of the doctrine that whiche thou saist is required But there is other consideration in the person of litle children borne of faithfull parents which are alredy receiued into the Church M. But bycause these children are no more capable of the promise made in baptisme than the children of infidells what reason is there rather to baptise the one than the others P. If the children of the faithfull were no more capable than those of the infidells there were reason in that which thou saist M. I sée not wherein the one sorte are more capable thā the others vnlesse thou shew it me more plainly P. Thou must vnderstād that the promise which God hath made in Baptisme conteyneth the promise of the aliance the which God hath made with his people in the which he comprehēdeth not only the faithfull whiche thorough faith are admitted into this aliance but also their childrē and the children of their children M. Wilt thou then say that the baptisme of children which haue faithfull parēts is founded vpon that aliance and vpon the faith of their parents P. Seing that the promis is made not onely to the faithful parents but also to their childrē the Parentes haue iust occasion to present their children to Baptisme to the end they may haue thereby confirmation of the promise whiche is made as well to their childrē as to themselues to the end that both they their children may be the more assured and comforted M. Thys Baptisme serueth then better for them than for their children forsomuche as the children knowe not yet what it is P. It serueth the one and the others For albeit the children be not able as yet to vnderstande what Baptisme is bycause of their age yet are they capable notwithstanding already thorough the good pleasure of God of the aliance wherof it is a Sacramente and on the other side besides that whiche God worketh by hys holy Spirite as it pleaseth him as well in litle children as in the greate there is also prayer made in Baptisme for the litle children founded vppon the same aliance whiche is not vayne but bringeth foorth his frute in his time If it be lavvfull to Baptise the children of infidels and what conditions are required in them vvhich do present them M. SEing then that Baptisme of children is founded vppon that aliance it is not lawfull to baptise a childe if he be not borne of faithfull Parentes Pet. Thou hast herein to consider that there must be héede taken not only to the Parentes of the children but also to those which presente them to Baptisme For albeit that a childe be borne of faithfull Parentes yet shoulde it not be lawfull to receyue hym to Baptisme if he were not presented by faythfull men whyche moughte be bound for them vnto that wherevnto Baptisme bindeth the faithfull and that they shoulde be sufficiente to accomplish the promise whereby they binde themselues to the Churche concerning the children M. And if that faithfull men should presente the Children of Infidells and that they should binde them selues for them taking vppon them to instruct them in the Christian religion as if they themselues were their very Parents shoulde it be lawfull to baptise such children P. I wold make no difficultie therein prouided that the Parents did agre therevnto chiefly for two causes M. Tell me the first P. It is that forsomuch as there is faithfull suretie the minister who is to administer the Baptisme hath alredy a good foundatiō For such suretie is in place of the Parentes prouided that they do not mislike of it but haue giuen thē charge to do what they do M. Which is the other reason P. It is that when God made the aliance with his people he did not only promise to shew fauour and mercie to the parents and children euen to the seconde and thirde generation but euen to a thousand generations Wherefore albeit that the néerest parents of the childe were infidels yet notwithstanding their infidelitie may not shut their childe from his righte that he may haue in the aliance of God by the meane of his auncient fathers and predecessors M. But seing it is so according to the true discipline of the church none may thē receiue a man to presente a childe to Baptisme if that he himselfe be not receiued into the companie of the faithfull and be not sufficient to be pledge for the childe which he presenteth to fulfill the promise whiche he maketh for him P. It shuld be to mock God and his Church who so should do otherwise For mē haue not accustomed in mater of much lesse importāce to receiue a pledge if he be not of such qualitie as is required M. That is an ordinarie mater P. What reason shuld there be thē to receiue in mater of so great importāce any other pledge thā such an one as wer méet in the which mater ther is a very solemne obligation as it were a solemne oth before god his Church M. Is there the like reason for those which be excōmunicate as there is for those which are as yet holden for infidells or at
the least haue made no professiō of the christiā doctrine P. Yes vntill that they be recōciled to the church and receiued into the same in such sort as we haue heretofore saide and as it is behouefull to be done in suche a case M. I woulde aske thée also for what cause children are not to be as well admitted to the supper as to Baptisme by meanes of the aliance made with their parentes in the whiche they are comprehended but I knowe that thou wilte aunswere me in such sorte as thou hast hertofore done cōcerning the proof which is more specially required in the supper than in Baptisme P. Thou séest wel that the reason is therin sufficiently apparant M. Now seing it is so required that euery one proue himselfe before he come to the Supper and not that other men proue them may not the ministers committe it to the cōsciēce of euery one which present themselues to them to receiue this sacramente without making any other profe or inquisition P. Albeit that it be required that euery one particularly do proue himselfe yet notwithstanding that particular examination doth not let the examination and the proofe whiche the ministers and pastors oughte to make of their flocks to knowe not only which be shéepe and which not but also what is the condition and estate of euery one of their shéepe For if they know them not what accoumpt shal they yeld M. That is a good apparāt reason P. On the other parte if there be doggs and swine which will thorough their rashnes put forth themselues to the greate contempt of God and of his church to thrust in their poluted and filthy snoutes vppon the lords table to infect it with the same shall the minister be without blame if he permitte it and do not at the least his endeuoure to shut out suche doggs swyne frō the table of the Lorde M. There may be also many which although they do not deserue to be accoumpted dogs swyne but only for poore ignorāt and séely ones whiche mought notwithstanding go and thrust in with the rest either of custome or else thinking to do well and yet should go to their owne condemnatiō P. I wold also adde herevnto this point and in such a case the ministers shuld not be without blame of the faulte whiche those shoulde committe and of the perdition of them if that they had not firste done their indeuoure towardes them accordingly as they are bound Of confessiō of brotherly recōciliatiō M. I Would gladly vnderstande of thée if that after that a man haue proued himselfe in such sorte as thou hast alredy declared he haue no néede to cōfesse himselfe yet to some minister of the Church P. If he be confessed to God as he ought and be reconciled to such as he may haue offendid and with whome he may be at strife and enmitie he néedeth none other confession M. The proofe whereof thou hast spoken doth it conteyne all that P. Thou maist iudge by that whiche thou hast heard for the true repentaunce and faith and charitie cannot be without true confession and reconciliation towardes God and our neyghboure The. 23. Dialogue is of Supplication of Christian praier Of prayer and hovv it belongeth to none but to the faithfull and may not be addressed but to God. MATHEVV I Haue no more now to propone to thée concerning the pointes which we haue alredy handled There resteth nothyng now but that thou tell me yet that which thou hast to say touching prayer P. For somuche as prayer is a frute of faithe whereby the faithfull do homage to god and make request vnto him for all things which are necessarie as well for their body as for their soule men yeld thanks vnto him for all the good things which they haue alredy receyued of him it followeth then well that it is an honoure which belongeth not but only to God and cannot be yelded vnto him but by the faithfull M. It followeth then of that which thou saist that it is not lawfull to call vppon or pray to any other than to God. P. No at all if we will not giue the honoure which belongeth to him to creatures and his glory to others against his expressed cōmaundement M. Is it then Idolatrie to call vppon and to pray to any other than to God P. It is neither more nor lesse than to worship an other than he only Hovv that our prayers cannot be agreable vnto god vvithout a mediator and by vvhat mediator it behoueth vs to present them M. BVt seing we are all faultie before his maiestie may we haue accesse vnto hym withoute mediator or aduocate P. In no wise M. Why shall it not be lawfull for vs then to take one amōg the Saincts whiche raigne with God P. Forsomuche as we cannot haue accesse vnto him without a mediator aduocate it is not for vs to chose him at our pleasure but for him to giue such an one as he himselfe hath chosen and appointed M. He may very well know better than we what mediator and aduocate we néede and whiche is most agreable to him and most méete for vs. P. And therefore it is very reasonable that therin we be gouerned by him Now thou hast alredy vnderstood heretofore how he hath giuē vs his owne sonne to do that office in whome only we must repose if we wil not fully deny god and prouoke him to anger against vs in stead of appeasing him and reiecte Iesus christ his sōne the which he hath giuē vs. Hovv that none other aduocate nor mediator may be ioyned to Iesus christ vvithout greatly dishonoring of him M. BVt what inconuenient is it if that we take Iesus Christ for the principall mediator and aduocate by whome we are made at one with the Father and that then we take either mā saint or womā saint which raigne alredy in Heauen with him concerning their soules and spirites to be also our mediators and aduocates with him or else towards himselfe bycause of our vnworthinesse Pet. The same cannot be done without taking frō him the office whiche belongeth onely to him M. Why so P. Forsomuch as either he is sufficient for the office which the father hath appointed him or else he is not sufficient if he be sufficient then néedeth it not to appointe him a fellowe if he be not sufficiente he is not then the true annoynted of the Lord and the office which is appointed vnto hym belongeth not to him at all Mat. This were an horrible blasphemie not onely to speake suche wordes but to thinke them P. And therfore if we had none other reason but that that we haue not in all the holy Scriptures neyther commaundement nor example which doth commaund and teache vs we ought to take any other mediator and aduocate than Iesus Christ towarde the father but it is forbidden vs expressedly to take any other that same shoulde suffise vs seing that there is