then heare them not Verba legis proferendo in the opinion of Saint Augustine so long as they speake Law This is not our Heresie but Catholique Doctrine De legis ac Mosis doctrinâ loquitur perindè enim est acsi dicat Omnia quae Lex Moyses vobis dixerint Scribis Pharisaeis recitantibus seruate saith Maldonate no friend nor fauourer of Protestants And after him Barradas another Iesuite in this resolution a very Protestant Hoc est saith he omnia quae legi Dei mandatis non repugnāt Ergo bound in the text with this restriction as you must and it is a plaine Gagge to the Gospel Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and hee that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me Therfore c. You know not what you say All this we constantly beleeue But first I answere this is a text indeede to purpose to vindicate authority to the Church and her Pastors but not expressely which is your vndertaking by necessary consequence and indenied it is but you haue tied your selfe foole as you were vnto expresse words and expresse words are not here extant Secondly perhaps it is not so pat as you imagine because the men intended there and then were of another making fashion and account than euer were any since or before and therefore their priuiledges more peculiar of greater extent insomuch as that all were not to be heard so respectiuely as they were they without Scripture or allegation of Scripture hauing mission immediate from the Sonne himselfe which none euer had but they But thirdly I answere take it with Saint Cyprian Epist 96. and others in a larger extent ad omnes praepositos qui Apostolis vicariâ ordinatione succedunt vnto the Gouernours in the Church who succeede the Apostles in the Churches gouernement by imposition of hands and ordination and goe and answere your selfe out of Saint Bernard thus Be the commandement tendred by God or man as Gods agent it is to be receiued with like reuerence Vbi tamen Deo contraria non praecipit homo As farre as man doth not gain-say the will and commandement of the most high A flat Protestant in his assertion and vpon reason For a Nuntio must goe to his Commission Matth. 16. 19. I will giue vnto thee the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen whatsoeuer thou shalt loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen Which text hath no such mention of relying vpon Church or Pastors in matters of faith expressed Nor hitherto perhaps any such meaning Your Compeeres were wont to cry vs downe with this text For Saint Peters iurisdiction ouer all and the Popes vniuersall power in claue potestatis You now waue that power it seemeth and cast aside that key and lay hold vpon that other key of knowledge Shall wee belieue your Puniship or them This cannot be good Catholique vnitie in so fundamentall a poynt of your Faith except for neere alliance betwixt Saint Peter and his Spouse the Church whatsouer is remembred of the one must be likewise true of the other But out with your Table-bookes you that haue them amongst you and Note the man will giue you something worth the noting that is our Sauiour doth not say whomsoeuer but whatsoeuer We take it and note it and meane to make good vse of it inferring thereupon through your owne confession that therefore St. Peter by Christs commission must in case of binding and loosing and executing the power of the Keyes which whether it be all one with binding and losing you are not agreed amongst your selues let whomsoeuer alone for euer and betake himselfe vnto whatsoeuer that is not meddle any more with Kings and Princes with cantoning of their Kingdomes and estates but content himselfe with whatsoeuer matters of fact inferiour matters of Faith and the like decisions at least with Causes and Persons within his owne Verge indeede Causes that is knots and difficulties for Persons are none of that combination So to shake hands with your memorable obseruation Therefore in matters of faith euen by their owne Bible wee must not relye vpon the written word onely but vpon whatsoeuer Saint Peter shall tie or vntie which we in this case are contented to doe and to say with that Councell of which he was a part you say President visum est spiritui sancto nobis the decision of the Catholique Church wee receiue as the dictate of the holy Spirit but be you sure it is the iudgment of the Church for you are good Proficients in equiuocation and present vs the Church vpon no better termes then if you should tender vs a man of straw for a perfect man or a shadow for a substance Indeede to this effect that is to as little purpose as that which went before In cases of controuersies and of doubts in matters of fact or ciuill cognisance which could not be determined by ordinary course of Law in the seuerall Counties as it were or Places of iudicature the Parties plaintife and defendants were to referre it to the Leuits Priests and Iudge in these daies that is to the Church and to the Pope you dreame and let your dreame goe once for truth and they must heare it determine it definitiuely It was capitall to refuse or to appeale Good but yet this commeth not home for they must determine it according vnto Law to which supreamest decision both concurre the Rule of right and determiner of right according to that rule In our construction to our present question the iudgement of the Church according vnto Scripture the selfe-same that the Protestant maintaineth In this text I graunt more is to be seene then in all the rest viz. when the word of the Lord came vnto Agge the Prophet Which thing how it sorteth with the present position I cannot tell speake those that can But the word that then came vnto him was this in the 12. verse Aske the Priests concerning the Lawe And the Priests answered according vnto Law thus and thus And this is resoluing of a doubt by the Priests but the doubt resolued according vnto Law so the written word is relyed vpon Not I my selfe the word onely Quis enim respondet Did euer any man deny that the Church and her Pastors are not to be heard speaking out of or else according vnto Scriptures Shew this and take it else Nihil ad rhombum That of 2 Chron. 19. 8. is all one with Deuter. 17. 8. an exemplification of that rule a practice according vnto that direction there somewhat more For hereby it appeareth that the Precept was not for Tell the Church and heare her Pastors but goe take the ordinary course appointed the iudgement of a standing court mixt of Clergie and of the Laitie as it were our court of high Commission or indeede the Starre-chamber consisting of both robes
from all thy sinnes If this be acknowledged the Doctrine of our Communion Booke and practice of our Church accordingly as it is iniurious are those opposites vnto truth and lyers against their owne knowledge that impute it to vs which wee are confessed to deny That none but God can forgiue sinnes This must proceede out of faction or that which is worse But this fellow proceedeth vpon a further extreamity to strengthen a truth in it selfe with a lye made by himselfe that our Doctrine is contrary to our Bibles Matth. 9. 3. 8. To proue against vs that which we deny not viz. this power delegated vnto Priesthood thus you alledge But when the multitude saw it they maruailed and glorified God who had giuen such power vnto men as to forgiue sins Which words As to forgiue sinnes are not in our Bibles out of which you vndertake to proue your Assertion Nor in your owne Bibles follow which you will You haue added them out of your store to serue your owne turne contrary to Scripture and further contrary to sense Because that thing which amazed them then for which they glorified God was a thing sensible visible apprehended of all When they saw it Now see sinnes forgiuen they could not heare it pronounced belieue it they might Secondly the power there giuen is not ordinary as that of absolution is but extraordinary and miraculous to heale the sicke Peter and his Successour had that but very few or none had this You know it was answered a Pope once when he shewed a masse of Gold and Siluer to one and added The Church could not say now Siluer and Gold haue I none No quoth the other Nor can it say Arise and walke This is that power there mentioned could you see it not that of Absolution ordinary That of Ioh. 20. 21. Matth. 16. 19. Giue that power vnto the Apostles to forgiue sinnes But may it not be excepted it was a personall priuiledge I answere not so for I belieue it not The collation was originall to them as to those from whom it was to be conueyed vnto others But some are happely of that opinion and it may seeme probable vnto others you should haue cleared the Texts of that obiection and then your performance had beene to purpose Matth. 16. 19. May be vnderstood you meane of sinnes forgiuen but yet only secondarily for thesi secunda Because we reade in the Euangelist whatsoeuer and not whomsoeuer this place is to be vnderstood of any knot whatsoeuer indeede rather of the power of the sword than of the keyes And it seemeth that if this place be not personall to Peter and his successors as by this allegation for forgiuing it neither is nor can be then our most holy Father hath lost a maine pillar of his Papacy peculiar to Saint Peter and his successours So these Madianites sheath their swords one in anothers sides and crosse themselues in their owne positions In Matth. 18. 18. The Text is so expresse to the purpose that Origen Chrysostome Theophilact and Anastasius vnderstand it of all Christians whomsoeuer that sundry Roman Catholiques if Maldonate deceiue vs not vnderstand it of no more than ciuill policy Goe take it Whatsoeuer you binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in Earth it shall be loosed in Heauen as your selues will for the power and execution of the keyes Wee deny not in any sort that power is giuen vnto mortall men to forgiue sinnes on earth nor to binde by excommunication which is frequently practised and peraduenture too frequently amongst vs. Vnto that 1 Cor. 5. 5. Artic. 33. thus wee subscribe That person who by open denunciation of the Church is rightly cut off from the vnity of the Church and excommunicated ought to be auoyded and to be taken of the whole multitude of the faithfull as an Heathen and a Publican vntill hee be openly reconciled by penance and receiued into the Church by a Iudge that hath authoritie thereunto And in this sort Saint Paul deliuered Hymenaeus and Alexander 1 Timoth. 1. 20. and forgaue the incestuous Corinthian 2 Cor. 2. 10. Which places by your direction wee haue seene and finde the Article agreeing with them As for 2 Cor. 5. 19. It is not to purpose of forgiuing sinnes by delegated authority vnto a Priest but of Reconciling by the whole office and function of the ministry God was in Christ saith the Apostle and reconciled the world vnto himselfe not imputing their sinnes vnto them and hath committed to vs the word of reconciliation So wee haue seene eyther nothing at all to purpose or else that of which wee made no question nor yet doe any at all As little in Fathers that affirme the same Irenaeus Lib. 5. cap. 14. saith the raising of Lazarus from death to life was a Symbole or figure of our Resurrection from Sinne to God Hee saith no more that I can see or finde Ambrose Lib. 1. it should be de paenitent cap. 7. Nor August Tract 49. in Iohn Nor Gregor hom 26. in Euangel if wee may belieue Bellarmine Lib. 3. de paenitent cap. 3. from whom you transcribed these testimonies without considering of these Fathers in their owne workes but so carelessely that if you were a Schoole-Boy lures in corpore for you referre vs to Gregor hom 26. in Euangel Whereas Bellarmine hath it 6. and to Ambrose Lib. de paenitentia as if Saint Ambrose had written but one Booke of that Argument not diuided into Chapters whereas Bellarmine directed you aright to the seauenth Chapter of his 1. Booke Was this securitie stupiditie or insolency in you or what was it XII That wee must not confesse our Sinnes but onely vnto God THat wee must not implyeth a flat negatiue or iniunction rather vnto the contrary Shew mee any such inhibition and I will say which I belieue you neuer will deserue at any Protestants hands you are a true dealing and an honest man Otherwise you are that you are and so will be still The most that hath beene saide is that priuate confession is free not tyed and therefore suus positiui not diuini Therefore happely of conueniency not of absolute necessity That in a priuate Confession vnto a Priest a peculiar enumeration of all Sinnes both of commission and omission with all circumstances and accidents is neuer necessary necessarily most an end not expedient nor yet all things considered required It is confessed that all Priests and none but Priests haue power to forgiue sinnes It is confessed that priuate Confession vnto a Priestâ— is of very ancient practice in the Church of excellent vse and practise being discreetly handled Wee refuse it to none if men require it if neede be to haue it We vrge it and perswade it in extreames Wee require it in case of perplexitie for the quieting of men disturbed and their consciences It hath beene so acknowledged by your fellowes that in the visitation of the sicke it is
hearty satisfaction he was restored Satisfaction not to God but to the Church whom hee had scandalized by his fall Goe along with Saint Paul and the Primitiue times no man will euer say Blacke is your Eye We haue seene Mathew 18. 18. and 16. 19. once and againe to as little purpose then as now and now as then The name Pardons and the thing your Pardons are two things much differing euery way and yet in neither place auonched is the Name as by your vndertaking for Expresse it should be The thing as much differing as white and blacke Power to binde and loose we denye not wee maintaine and practice it in our Church We may differ in the Execution but Circumstances alter not Nature your proofes may vouch the Thing the right the vse the being but manner fashion execution onely doubted of and to be proued that you touch not See Fathers that list and like to loose their labour In Tertullian I am sure nothing either in the first Chapter of his Booke ad Martyres remembred by some other of your Gossips nor in his fifth which is supplyed out of your store His Booke ad Martyres is very â—â—ort Finde me Pardons and Indulgences there mentioned and I will purchase a Bull from Rome my selfe whatsoeuer it cost me deere enough without doubt That which you haue a minde vnto by direction of others is this as I guesse Quam paâ—em quidam in Ecclesia non habentes à Martyribus in carcere exorare consueuêre Which Peace some not enioying within the Church haue beene accustomed to intreat the Martyrs in Prison for it Peace there is Pardon after the African phrase of Tertullian and Saint Cyprian whom you make your second Father to be seene and whose testimony is almost idem numero with Tertullians The meaning of both as Pamelius no Protestant may enforme you was this Those that had fallen in time of persecution to auoide or eleuate the censure of the Church through their great suite and importunitie often procured letters deprecatory to the Bishop and Clergie whereto they were lyable from Consessors such as were emprisoned for the truth whom those Fathers call Martyrs that so at their intreaty and for their confessions famous in the Church the rigour of discipline might be suspended mitigated or determined and they without more adoe be restored vnto the Church Against this custome in breach of discipline Tertullian and especially Cyprian inueigh most bitterly So then take your choyce either these Fathers cannot be seene to affirme for your purpose or if so auoide it if you can your pardons at the first arising vp in the Church were but abuses and as such resisted exclaimed on condemned as irregular and as impious by the Fathers of those times Tertullian and especially Cyprian and so you haue spun a faire threed either way As for Pope Vrban the second make you merry with him much good may his plenary indulgence for the Holy-Land warre and voyage doe you Aske my fellow if I be a thiefe Vrban graunted such Indulgence I confesse So did Gregorie the seauenth his next Predecessor but one first take vpon him to depose Princes and dispose of their Kingdomes by Apostaticall authoritie No man heard of the one before Gregorie nor of the other before Vrban The eldest aboue 1000. yeares after Christ Vrban the eight that now Popeth it may proclaime a Croisado if hee will and iustifie his fact as well as any other but the true reason holdeth not now The World is growne wiser and men loue money too well to be so cheated of it as their fore fathers were to emptie their owne and fill the Popes Coffers by Croisado cousonages But what a Bayard is this to shew such blockish Ignorance being an vndertaker and that with some contumely against the whole Nation of Protestants Wee are told it was Anno Christi 160. as if there were any Holy warres in those times when as Vrban the first if hee were then borne yet certainely was not Pope many yeares after till 224. aboue 60. yeares betweene As for Vrban the second hee sate in Anno 1088. A foule ouer sight in such an vndertaker for the gagging of all Protestants mouthes for euer But somewhat there was in it that the Cat wincked when both her eyes were out Some wiser more learned and skilfull than himselfe had obserued it seemeth that Vrban the second Founder of these pardons was the 160. Pope in order from Saint Peter and this poore Ignaro meaning well to the Cause to aduance the credite thereof by antique vse thought it had bin a thing so auncient as the yeare 160. at least best to vse a Catholique tricke of piae fraudis to let it goe so For honest good Catholiques must belieue what their Instructors say though they teach that the Snow is blacke so are they hood-wincked in implicite Faith And as for Heretiques no matter if they spie it or what they say poore mis-led Proselites either reade not their answeres good cause why or if they reade them will not belieue them though neuer so plaine and euident Therefore Quicquid in buccam these men may say and write any thing no matter what XIIII That the Actions and Passions of Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church MEntiris furcifer a leude lye in imputation of flat impiety They serue for nothing those worthies of Dauid those mightie men of Warre Holy Saint Stephen and his Arriere-ban of valiant Aduenturers in the cause of Christ Iesus that in life and death haue so glorified God and set vp that bloudy banner of our Redemption displayed on the battlements of Death and Hell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Indeede this was the power of that omnipotent God not to be vttered by the tongue of men which did so inable them vnto such performings saith Iustine himselfe one of that Societie They are our Crowne and our exceeding great reioycing We boast of them and of their noble acts wee commemorate their worths in our common seruice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 said Nazianzen I take it or Basil one of the two and wee take vp that saying whose soeuer it was In doing them honour we delight exceedingly We triumph in the bloud they haue shed for our Sauiour Their acts were recorded for imitation that considering their Precedents and worthy performings wee might be incouraged to follow their example 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As springing Wels they supply vs continually saith Clemens Alexandrinus What doe they supply vs with all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with commonifaction to shew our selues religious louers of God though with shedding of our bloud To shew forth our Faith with losse of our liues Witnesses they are so is their name Martyres for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to witnesse Credendorum agendorum sustinendorum recipiendorum Of things to be belieued performed indured receiued saith Bonauenture And are these for nothing vnto the Church Did euer any Protestant say or thinke so
Sabaoth Which very words wee vse in our solemnizing of the holy Communion thus Therefore with Angels and Archangels and the company of Heauen wee laud and magnifie thy glorious name euermore praysing thee and saying Holy holy holy Lord God of hosts Heauen and earth are full of thy glory Glory bee to thee O Lord most high Can this Goose gaggle against this Augustine is next lib. 1. de Serm. Dom. in Monte cap. 5. in whom I finde no such diuision nor any thing to purpose And lib. de doct Christ cap. 7. againe As if there were but one booke there being foure and no such matter in any 7. Chapter Who can brooke such an ignorant or negligent companion in a point of controuersie and imputation Which is also obserued by him in Saint Gregory Saint Gregory is to be seene lib. 1. Moral cap. 28. in which booke there are not so many Chapters nor in the Chapters which are any such thing The truth is that which was meant is lib. 29. Moral vpon the 38. of Iob the same in effect with Saint Ambrose before Esais quoque cùm Laudem Trinitatis aperiret Seraphini voces exprimens ait Sanctus sanctus sanctus ac ne tertiò SanctuÌ„ nominaÌ„s vni â—ateÌ„ diuinae substantiae scindere videretur adtuÌ„xit Dominus Deus Sabaoth which almost word for word is repeated Homil. 16. and not 19. as we find it cited vpon Ezechiel To which hee might haue added Psal 67. Benedicat nobis Deus Deus noster Benedicat nobis Deus and that in Rom. XI For of him and by him and in him are al things to him be praise for euer Amen These are his Fathers that should affirme the same videlicet that it is nor superfluous nor superstitious to repeat one the same prayer oftentimes They repeat nothing they affirm nothing they only speak what was done That which they speake wee doe That which they are supposed to affirme against vs if they did affirme any thing needed not For we affirme vse propose and maintaine the same priuately publiquely in our Liturgie and Seruice of the Church To conclude Sir Gagger bring mee any one Place of Scripture any practice resolued of the Catholicks any decision of the Church representatiue any determination of the Church collectiue in a particular approued Synod any Saying of any one Father of Credit dogmatically resolued for 500. yeeres and better after Christ to the end of the Councell of Chalcedon against any thing established in the Church of England that is in the Communion-booke the booke of Articles the booke of Consecrating Bishops and ordering of Priests and Deacons and I will subscribe Heer is scope enough to ramble in Gagge me if you can As for priuate opinions I am bound to none no not vnto my owne Quisque abundet in sensu suo so be it hee trouble not the Church therewith FINIS Curteous Reader before I presse thee to peruse this treatise haue I pray thee so much patience as to permit me to giue thee my aduice concerning some certaine poâ—nts very necessary for thâ—e the â—ettâ—â— to sâ—me thy selfe thâ—â—of with fruit and pâ—ofit The first point is that in the inscription thereof it doth not tell thee out of which English Bible the alleadged pâ—stages are extracted For as much as this were mecrely in vaine sith that England hath brought forth within these few years past to the number of 20. seueralâ—â—orts of Bibles farre different one from another so that the Protestants haue not all one sort of Bible Notwithstanding know this for certainty that they are faithfully taken forth of the Bâ—â—le in quarto Printed at London by Robert Barker Anno 1615. If any one shall shew vnto thee some other Bible wherein they are not so written word for word as here they are yet rest assured and out of doubt that thou shalt finde theÌ„ written as they are here alleadged at the least in this of Robert Barkers The second point is that thou admire the splendour of Truth and accordingly to stand as stoutly and as immooueably in the maintenance and defence thereof Yet neuerthelesse their condemnation is so expresly set downe in their owne Bibles and is so cleare to all the world that nothing more needs hereto but onely that thou know to reade and haue thy eyes in thy head at the opening of this their booke * This in my mind cannot choose but be an exceeding comfort vnto a Catholike Yea rather a great signe of security and assurance concerning the truth and vprightnesse of his cause in shewing himselfe content to be tried by their owne Bibles The translations whereof doth in a number of places and particularly in those that are now in controuersie swarue and differ notoriously from the Authenticall Latin and that to the incredible disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Neuer did nor neuer dare our aduersaries offer themselues to giue the like aduantage to vs as to be tryed by our own translations The third is that when thou shalt vrge or alleadge any passage in fauour of thine owne faith if any one returne the change be it either in recriminationâ— and blaming of the Roman Church or be it in alleadging some obscure text and ill vnderstood to counterpoint thine Shew c. The fourthis that they reiect some one of the passages which thou producest pretending it to be Apocrypha though it be not true That to preuent this obiection no such scriptures as they call Apocryphall are there produced but still there goe accompanied with them others also that are Canonical But if they shall contend with thee not about the words themselues as being both cleere and Canonicall but about the sense or meaning of theÌ„ know this that for such places as may bee subiect to such cauill thou hast here the warrant and authority of the holy fathers which haue vnderstood these places in the selfe-same sense that Catholickes doe A thing which they can neuer do in their defence And what reason were it then to preferre the priuate interpretation of a Cobler before S. Chrysostome of a Baker before S. Basil of a Tinker before Tertullian and so of others I here protest in the presence of God whom I call vpon in this behalfe Which yet should be to alter the text and to imploy mans wisdome in stead of the word A thing by their owne confession forbidden them they protesting c. Farewell my deare Reader seeing I haue now said all that vnto thee which I desired Gag Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible Against Acts 8. 30. c. Against Luk. 24. 15. How then are Scriptures so easie to be vnderstood of the vnlearned when the Disciples themselues vnderstood them not till first they were expounded vnto them See more 2 Pet. 1. 20. Gag See Fathers which affirme the same Iren. lib. 2. cap. 47. Origen lib. 7. cont Celsum Ambr. Ep. 44 ad Constant calleth it a Sea a depth of Propheticall