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A07436 A plaine subuersyon or turnyng vp syde down of all the argumentes, that the Popecatholykes can make for the maintenaunce of auricular confession with a moste wholsome doctryne touchyng the due obedience, that we owe vnto ciuill magistrates, made dialogue wyse betwene the prentyse and the priest by Gracyous Menewe. Menewe, Gracious.; Becon, Thomas, 1512-1567, attributed name. 1555 (1555) STC 17822; ESTC S109991 27,582 98

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of our sauioure Iesu Chryste but ye shall neuer be able to proue y t they are bonde to tell oute theyr synnes vnto them or to receaue suche beggerly absolutyō at their handes as is nowe vsed in Antychristes churche Priest What can ye say to this place of S. Mathewe I wil geue the sayth Chryst to Peter y e keyes of the kyngdome of heauen and whatsoeuer thou bindest in earth shall be bounde in heauen what soeuer thou loosest on earth shal be loosed in heauen And in the. 18 chap. of the same gospel these be our sauiours wordes to all his Apostles Verely I saye vnto you whatsoeuer ye bide on earth shal be boūde in heauē And whatsoeuer ye loose on earth shalbe loosed in heauen And also in the .19 chap of Iohns gospel he sayeth receaue y e holy gost Whose soeuer synnes ye doe forgeue they are forgeuen vnto thē And whose soeuers synnes ye retayne they are retayned The places doe sufficiently declare that Pryestes haue receued of Chryst the autorite and power to forgeue synnes Prentise I wil cirst master person vnder youre correction and leaue shewe what the scripture vnderstandeth by y e keyes and than shal any man easely perceaue and see how shamfully these places haue hertofore beē wrasted and wrighed The keyes sayeth that worthy Chrysostome are the worde of God and y e knowledge of the scriptures whereby y e gate of trueth is opened vnto mē And the kepers of them are the Priestes to whom the offyce of preachyng the worde and expoūdyng the scriptures is commytted Thys is to be called the keye wryteth saynte Augustyne wher wyth the harde hartes are resolued to receaue fayth the secretes of the myndes opened and what soeuer lurketh wythin is by a reasonable way broughte to lyghte That I say is the true keye that openeth the conscyence to true cōfessyon of synne and includeth or shutteth in grace to the eternite of an wholsome mysterie To this a greeth that holy father Ambrose saying verbum dei The woorde of God remytteth synnes the Priest is the iudge in deede the Priest doth his duety and office but he exerciseth no maner power nor iurisdiction And in an other place these be hys wordes Peccata per verbū dimittuntur Sinnes are forgeuen by the worde y e interpreter wherof is the Leuite Now is it playne and euydent enoughe what we oughte to vnderstāde by the keyes euen the true worde of God and the righte vnderstandynge of the scryptures wherby the conscyences of true repentaunte synners are loosed and set at liberte from synne and euerlastyng damnacion and y e cōsciences of them that be hardened in their wicked maliciousnes and wyll in no wyse repente boūd w t the dolefull chaynes of sinne and of helly destructyon And y t thys is the true meanynge and vnderstandyng of the keies Chryst him selfe doeth sufficientlye declare when he sendeth his apostles abrode into the worlde to preach y e gospell o penyng the misterye of byndynge and loosynge on thys wyse goe ye throughoute all the whole worlde and preache y e gospel to all lyuyng creatures here bee the keyes delyuered vnto thē he that beleueth and is baptysed shalbe saued but he that beleueth not shalbe condemned And in the 24 chap. of Luke Christ sayth on thys maner thus it is wrytten thus it behoued Chryst to suffer and to ryse agayne from death y e thirde daye and that repentaūce and remission of synnes shoulde be preached in hys name amonge all nacions The woorde of God then and the preachyng of the gospell are the keyes y t Chryste doeth speake of And when the faythfull ministers of Gods worde doe by due mynistryng and preachyng of y e gospel certifie the repentaunt sinners of the remission and forgeuenesse of their synnes in y e bloud of our sauiour Iesu Christ they louse them so that they are also loused in heauen but when on y e contrarie they do a certayne them because of their vnrepentaunte hartes of the wrath and indignation of God and of euerlastinge damnation excepte they forsake their wicked wayes and turne vnfeynedly vnto the Lorde theyr God they binde them so y t doubt lesse they ar also bound in heauē And by thys byndyng and loosing Christ our sauiour vnderstādeth none other thyng but remitting and retaining of synnes And it is saied that the minister doth forgeue sinnes because that he as a man myght saye sitting in commission vnder hys mayster Chryst doth out of hys mouthe certifie y e cōsciences of true repentaūt sinners of the free remissiō forgeuenes of their sinnes in th blood of y e sōe of god apprehēded takē hold vpō by faith For to sai y t mē cā forgeue sines it is a mere blasphemy agaīst god which thīg the very Pharises Scribs their sels do testifie saying whi doth he speake these blasphemies who cā forgeue synnes but god onely These Pharises Scribes shall rise at y e day of iudgement condēne our Pharisaical hipocrites y t so arragaūtly take vpō thē to forgeue mē their sinnes Priest And haue we not power to forgeue other mē their sinnes but by y e way of cōmissiō Prētyse No forsoth And yet this cōmissiō must be duly executed accordyng to y e wyll pleasure of him y t hath geuē it els it wil be worth 〈…〉 thogh it hath neuer so gloriouse a face in y e site of y e world pri I wil beleue touchynge thys matter as the holy fathers haue beleued taught afore vs. But they haue both beeleued and taught that y e Pryestes haue power and authorite to forgeue synnes Therfore ye maye prate what ye lyst as a sorte of newe fangled heades that ye bee I wyll stycke to the olde catholyke churche as long as I haue any breath in my bodye Prentyse I wyll not haue you to take the matter so hotte master person but let vs rather wyth all lenite and gentylnes reason the matter together that there maye come some edifying of it I doubt not but that ye remember the saying of Ciprian full well where he sayeth and that Chryst oughte only to be heard the father also dyd testifie from heauen saying This is my welbeloued sonne in whō I am pleased heare him Wherefore if Christ oughte to be hearde onely we must not regarde what any man hath afore vs thoughte good to be done but what Christ who is afore all dyd fyrst For we ought in nowise to folow mās custome but the trueth of God And doeth not the Lord our god crye out in the prophete Ezechiell saying Walke not in the statutes of your forfathers kepe not their ordenaunces and defyle not your selfes with their Idols for I am the Lord your God But walke in my statutes kepe my lawes do them Verely maister Person the religion of oure forefathers shall not excuse vs. But what will
vnto anger The surest weapons then that we can haue to fyghte withall ▪ agaynst wicked and vngodly rulers is true repentaunce and amendement of lyfe faythful and vnfeined prayer proceadyng from a troubled and contrite heart And they that vse any other armure or weapons are not of God but are the children of Belial by suche vnlawfull meanes as they doe vse pourchassyng vnto themselues euerlastyng damnatyon Now master person I trust ye haue sufficiently heard my mynde touchynge the obedience that we owe vnto magistrates and how farre forth we ar bound to obeie their lawes Priest But what meaneth Sainct Paul when he saieth wherfore ye must nedes obeye not for feare of vengeaunce only but also because of conscience Here are men bounde in conscience to obeye What wyll ye haue more Prentyse The meanyng of Sayncte Paule is thys that we must obeye our temporall rulers not onely for feare of the punishment and vengeaunce that ensueth and foloweth of disobediēce but also because oure conscience doeth beare vs recorde that it is gods will and pleasure that wee shoulde obeye them That is too saye Althoughe it were possible y t we might escape all worldely punishment and shame that cometh of disobedience and rebellion yet because in oure conscience we are by Gods worde perswaded that all the hygh powers are of God we can not onelesse we wolde cōdemne our own selfs but be obedient vnto them as longe as thei kepe them selfes within the boūdes and limites of gods boke for if they commaūde any thing that God hath forbidden or forbidde any thinge that God hath cōmaūded we ought to say with y e Apostelles Better it is to obeye God than men Prieste And hath not God cōmaunded confession Prentyse No suche kinde of confession doeth God cōmaunde as is vsed now at this present And truely I doe merueyll that ye bee not ashamed emōg you to affirme that auricular confessiō is of god or that it is grounded in goddes worde For though it hath ben vsed in times passed yet was it then free for all men whether thei wolde come to it or not The histories do playnlye declare yea and many auncient writers besydes that ther was no law at all made concerninge this auriculare confession which ye do with to the nayle defend now afore Innocētius the thyrde and that it was a polityke order instituted by the bishoppes but not a lawe ordeyned either of Christe or of hys Apostles Therfore Gratianus after a long disputation concludeth at lengthe the whole matter with these wordes I haue briefli set fourth and declared what autours or what reasons and arguments bothe sentences are grounded vpō but we leaue to the iudgement of the reader which of thē he will folowe and stycke to And he that hath writtē the glose of the fyrst boke doeth playnelye affirme that we are onely bounde by mans lawe to this confession and that therefore the Greckes were neuer bounde to it because thys lawe was neuer receyued of them Whiche thing any man wolde haue iudged Diuelyshe and abominable if thys confession hadde ben commaunded by Christe Sozomenus writeth that this institution and ordeynaunce was diligently obserued and kepte in the weaste churches and speciallye at Rome wherbi he signifieth that it was not a generall law of all churches and that one priest amōg al other was appointed to this office wherin also he dooeth confute the lying opiniō of thē which affirme that the keyes are deliuered vniuersally to al priestes for this purpose for it was not the office of all priestes too confesse but one onely was appointed to it by the Bishop Priest And was this cōfession vsed onelye in the Occidentalle or Weaste churches This is a straunge thinge that ye do tell Prentyse The same Sozomenus doeth also testifie that it was vsed at Constantinople vntill abominable whoredome and adultry was shamfully cōmitted betwene a Deacon a noble woeman vnder the pretence of it For this enorme and detestable cryme dyd Nectarius being a holy and godly man abolishe auricular cōfession whiche Nectarius was then bishop of Constantinople Now marke this thinge mayster Personne if this had ben y e lawe of God Nectarius durste not haue put it doune Will ye accuse this holy man who of all men is so 〈◊〉 commended of heresye Or will ye condemne the churche of Constantinople whiche neuer after that tyme woulde admitte receaue auricular confessiō ▪ Yea not onely the church of Constantinople but also all the East churches haue ben always at defiaūce with this Antichristian traditiō Wold they haue ben against it if it had ben y e institutiō of Christe Chrisostome who was also bisshop of that churche I meane of the church of Constātinople doth so plainly testifye the same in all his writings y t I merueyl they be not ashamed once too opene theyr mouths to defende it Tell furthe thy syns sayeth he y t thou maiest put them awaye If thou be ashamed to tell to any man what thou hast done amysse tell thy synnes euery daye in thy mynde I bidde not the to telle them to thy felow seruaunt who may bewraye the but telle them to God which healeth them Telle furth thine offences vpon thy bedde that there thy conscience may acknowledge and recognyse hir owne wickednesse And in an other place Now is it nothinge necessarie sayeth thys holy father to confesse oure selfs before witnesses lette a diligent inquisition of thy sinnes be made in thy thought this triall be done without witnesse let God alone see thee wherein thou doest confesse thy self And in hys 5. homelye de incomprehensibli Dei natura contra Anameos these be hys wordes I do not bringe thee in to the scafold of thy felow seruaūtes I do not compelle the to confesse detecte or open thy synnes vnto men repete thy conscience before God opē thy mynde shew thy wondes vnto the Lorde that most excellent Phisition and call for helpe at his handes shewe thē to hym that vpbraydeth nothing but wil heale them most gentilly Besydes all these he sayeth in an other place Beware thou tell not thy faute vnto man lest he do vpbrayede the for we are not bound to cōfesse our selfs to our fellowe seuraunt y t may vpbrayede vtter abrode our cōfession But shewe thy woūdes to God who is carefull ouer thee who is gentill a sure Phisicion Afterwardes he doth induce or bring in God speaking on this māner I do not compelle thee to come furth in to y e cōmune scaffold to call for manye witnesses Tell thy sinnes to me alone priuely y t I may heale y e sores Wil ye sai y t Chrisostome was so far out of y e wai y t he wold haue set me ▪ is cōsciences at libertie frō comming to such kynd of cōfessiō if they hadde ben bounde to it by Goddes lawes No no mayster person but he durst