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A06517 The confutation of Tortura Torti: or, Against the King of Englands chaplaine: for that he hath negligently defended his Kinges cause. By the R.F. Martinus Becanus, of the Society of Iesus: and professour in deuinity. Translated out of Latin into English by W.I. P.; Refutatio Torturae Torti. English Becanus, Martinus, 1563-1624.; Wilson, John, ca. 1575-ca. 1645? 1610 (1610) STC 1699; ESTC S122416 35,918 75

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King or els contumelious to the Pope neyther whereof doth well beseeme you The iniury you offer to your King yow cannot deny For durst you without iniury haue answered your king eyther in iest or earnest when as after the death of Queene Elizabeth he demaunded the Crowne of England with these words If you will raigne in England go to the Diuell and couenant with him who is the distributer of all Kingdomes I thinke you durst not For if you had then farewell Chaplaineship Wherfore then dare you be so saucy to speake thus to the Pope but for that you list to raile vpon him 31. But you will say the Pope seekes a temporall Kingdome which is not due vnto him Let him cōtent himselfe with a spirituall Kingdome But what if in like manner I should say of your King He seeks a spirituall Kingdome Let him content himselfe with a temporall Moreouer I adde that the Pope hath far more right to temporal Kingdomes then you King hath to the Church which thing I am to declare more largely in another place The ninth Paradoxe 32. YOv say that power to excommunicate was not giuē vnto S. Peter but vnto the Church to wit by those wordes Dic Ecclesiae c. Tell the Church and if he will not heare the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnicke As also by those other wordes Quaecumque solueris c. Whatsoeuer you shall loose vpon earth shall be loosed in heauen and whatsoeuer you bynd vpon earth shal be bound in heauen c. And yet notwithstanding you adde that the Church may transferre this power to whome she please For thus you write pag. 14. of your booke Potestas haec ibi cui data Non Apostolo Petro. This power there to whome was it giuen Not to Peter the Apostle And againe Vt autem Petro potestas ibi non data censuram hanc vsurpandi ita nec Petro si vsurparet ratihabitio promissa Dicitur enim Quoscumque ligaueritis Non Petro igitur vel Papae sed Ecclesiae And as power was not there giuen to Peter to vse this censure so neyther if he had vsed it was the ratihabition or approuing thereof promised to Peter For it is said Whomesoeuer ye shall bind therfore it was not giuen to Peter or to the Pope but to the Church And yet againe pag. 42. Res ipsa rei ipsius promissio ratihabitio vsus denique Ecclesiae datur ab Ecclesia habetur transfertur in vnum siue plures qui eius pòst vel exercendae vel denunciandae facultatem habeant The thing it selfe the promise of the thing it selfe the approuing of it yea the vse therof is giuen to the Church From the Church it is both had and transferred to one or more who shall afterward haue the faculty to exercise or denounce the same 33. Out of this your Doctrine it followeth first that in the time of the Apostles power to excommunicate was immediatly giuen to the Church of the Corinthians and from thence transferred to S. Paul the Apostle that he might exercise and publikely denounce the same vpon the incestuous person But this very point you openly deny in the same place in these wordes Paulus congregatis Corinthijs potestatem censurae denunciandae facit Paul hauing gathered togeather the Corinthians giues power to denounce the Censure Certes if S. Paul giue power to the Congregation or Church of Corinth to denounce the Censure vpon the incestuous person as heere you affirme how had he then receaued the selfe same power from the same Church Or what necessity was there I pray yow to giue that power to the Church if the Church had receaued it before from Christ by those words Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church These things do not agree togeather 34. Secondly it followeth that now at this present in England the power to excommunicate is immediately in the English Church and not in the Bishops and from the Church the same may be transferred to Bishops But if it be so why doth not the Church of England giue this power to the King her Head and Primate Why doth she rather giue it to the Bishopes then to the King when as the Bishops are subordinate vnto the King in spirituall Iurisdiction as you will needs haue it And is it not an absurd thing that you to wit the Church of England should giue power to the Bishops to excommunicate and cast out of the Church their King their Head their Pastor and their Primate and yet would not giue the same power to the King to inflict the same Censures vpon his subiects to wit the Bishops Surely you are eyther very cruell towardes your King or els you do not seriously and in good earnest giue him the Supremacy One of the two must needs follow Therfore looke well with what spirit you wrote these wordes following in the 151. pag. of your booke Nos Principi Censurae potestatem non facimus We do not giue power to our King to exercise Censures vpon vs. And wherfore do ye not if you truly acknowledg him for your Pastour Primate But let vs go forward The tenth Paradoxe 35. YOv say that the Prophesy of the reuelation of Antichrist is already fulfilled and therefore it is so cleere that it may be seene with the eyes For thus you write pag. 186. Minimè verò mirum si ista quae dixi tam vel claram vel certam in scripturis Patrum interpretationem non habeant signatus adhuc liber huius Prophetiae erat It is no meruayle if these things which I haue sayd be neyther cleere nor certayne in the writinges of the Fathers For as yet the booke of this Prophesy was not vnsealed c. And a little after say you Mirari tamen non debeat quis si non illis tam adeo explicita omnia fuerint quàm Nobis per Dei gratiam iam sunt qui consummatam iam Prophetiam illam quotidie oculis vsurpamus But yet let no man meruayle if all thinges were not then so vnfoulded vnto them as now by Gods grace they be to vs who dayly see with our eyes that prophesy to wit of Antichrist to be already fulfilled c. 36. And is it so indeed But your King thinketh the contrary For that in his Premonition he playnely auerreth that That Prophesy of Antichrist is yet obscure and intricate and that by only coniectures it may be disputed of His wordes are these Sanè quod ad definitionem Antichristi nolo rem tam obscuram inuolutam tamquam omnibus Christianis ad credendum necessariam vrgere As for the definition of Antichrist I will not vrge so obscure a point as a matter of faith to be necessarily beleeued of all Christians c. And shall we thinke that that which is obscure and intricate to your King is dayly manifest to you No It followeth in the Kings words Id autem maximè mihi in votis est vt si cui