is an instruction of others so that yt cannot be called the Lords prayâ—…r BARTLET But this troubleth vs that you hold yt not lawfull to say oueâ—… those wordes in prayer c. GREN. You see that we denie no man to vse the verie wordes all oâ—… anie part of them in prayer by explication or application according to our present occasions as anie other Scripture COOP. What is the meaning of that explication or application GREN. Explication application is meant thus as when I desire that the Pope such Ministers of poperie might be suppressed I say Do this Lord for th'aduancement of thy kingdome Let thy Kingdome come c. And without this explication or application to say ouer the vvhole vvordes conteyning all things that can be praid were but abuse of that forme of prayer seing they that so praye cannot vnderstand what he that is the moâ—…th of all asketh for we cannot pray for all thing at once but that which is within the compasse of our faith otherwise yt is but babling COOP. For the whole Church yt may be said ouer as a praier GREN. All praier must be of faith for such things as are within our knowledge and as we knowe the Church to be in present neede of and those things to be particularly craued at GODS hand els we do but babble as the papists do COOP. I graÌ„t that al our praiers ought to be of faith expressing our present necessities Yet ought we euerie day to say ouer the Lords praier for the whole Church GREN. This is popish Doctrine such praier were superstitious babling c. The righteous meâ—… they shall iudge them after the maner of 〈◊〉 and after the maner of murtherers for they are harlots and bloâ—…d is in thier bâ—…nds Ezek. 23. 45. Before we can iudge the false Church it is expedient that we discerne the true Church which is thus described in the scriptures THe true planted and rightlie established Church of CHRIST is a companie of Faithfull people seperated from the vnbeleuers and heathen of the land gathered in the name of CHRIST whome they truelie worship and redily obey as thier only King Priest and Prophet ioyned together as members of one bodie ordered and gouerned by such officers and lawes as CHRIST in his last will and Testament hath therevnto ordeyned all and each one of them standing in and for thier ChristiaÌ„ libertie to practise whatsoener God hath coÌ„maunded reuealed vnto them in his holie word within the limites of their callings executing the lordes iudgements against all trangressió and disobedience which ariseth among them and cutting it off accordinglie by the power which thier lord and King CHRIST IESVS hath comitted vnto them Now who so shall measure thies parish assemblies as they generally stand in England by this rule shall euidently finde them in euerie point so transgressing and defectiue as he that hath eyes to see or but a will to search cannot be deceaued or mistake these parish Churches for the true churches of Christ. Thies parishes consisting of a company of prophane ignorant people gathered by the sounde of a Bell in the name of Antichrist worshipping God after a false Idolatrous maner denying all obedience vnto CHRIST in his 3. offices as thier only King Priest and Prophet lyuing in disorder among themselues standing in confusion being disordered and ouerruled by such lawes officers as the Pope left and not as CHRIST left standing in bondage to the Romiâ—…h courts cannons hauing no power to execute the lordes iudgements or to redresse the least sinne or transgression amongst them-selues but are driuen to the Comissaries Courts and so cast out SATAN by the power of SATAN 1. Thier Churches consiste not of a company of faithfull people but of a multitude of prophane people Therefore they are not the true Church 2. They haue made no seperation from the heathen of the land but all are receiued reteyned in the bozome of thier Churches Therefore c. 3. They are not gathered in the name of Christ but in the name of Antichrist whom they obey as shall afterward appeare Therefor c. 4. They worship not God truelie but after a false and Idolatrous maner as witnesseth thier popish leiturgie thier stinted booke of â—…hier comon prayer Therfore c. â—… They receiue not nor obey not Christ as thier King Priest Prophet Therefore c. Not as thier King reiecting his gouernment and receiuing â—…tanding vuder the Antichristâ—…a yoake of thier popiâ—…h gouernment Not as thier Priest sacraligiously prophaning his name with â—…hier Idolatrie prostituting his blood and making him a priest â—…nd sacrifice to Infidells and the most wicked offenders Not as thier Prophet giuing no obedience to his worde vsing 〈◊〉 as a mantill to couer thier sinne rather then as a rule whereby 〈◊〉 direct thier liues not seeking a true ministrie but mainteyâ—…ing a false of which sorte the wholl ministrie of the land is â—…hich are permitted to teach in thier publike places to whome â—…ey giue eare Thier people are not kint togeather as members each of other in one congregation but both roue and goe assemble departe at thier pleasure when they will whether they will as they will themselues As also liue in continuall disorder 7 Thies parishes are not ordered and gouerned by such officers as Christ hath appointed to his Church They haue no true Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Releeuers But insteade of thies they remaine most seruilely sâ—…biect to the Antichristian gouernmeÌ„t of thier popish Arch-bishops Bishops Chauncellors Archdeacons Deâ—…nes Commissaries Doctors Proctors Aduocats Notaries Regesters Purseuants Cursetors Sumners c. And from the Apostoliâ—…all seat of the Biâ—…hops they receue as AntechristiaÌ„ false a ministrie as thier 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hirelings lecturers mercenarie preachers c. which togeither with this people stand bounde and subiect to thies Bishops and thier popish courts of high commission of faculties of Archâ—…es of prerogatiue of delegaâ—…s of thier CoÌ„missaries c. Therefore c. 8 Thiâ—…s assemblies are not ruled by th'olde and newe Testament but by the Cannons Iniunctions and decrees of thiâ—…s Antichristian and popish courts Therefore c. 9 Thies people stand not in and for thier Christian lybertie but all of them remaine in bondage to thies Aegyptian and Babilonish yoakes yeilding obedience vnto thies courts and thier Cannons Therâ—…fore c. 10 Thies assemblies haue not the power which Christ hath gâ—…uen vnto his Church vnto the worlds end and all the powers in earth and hell cannot take from them viz. to binde loose and to refoâ—…me things that are amisse but are driuen to the Comissary Courts Therfore c. 11 Thies asseÌ„blies cast out Satan by the power of Satan namely by thies Impes of Antichrist the Bishops Commissaryes and priests Therefore they are not for all thâ—…er reasons seuerall ioâ—…ned cannot be held in anie Christian iudgement the true Churches of Christ. Infinite were the reasons which from thies seuerall heades as likewise from thier particuler transgressions defaults might be drawne But the beâ—… Argument to confute and cut downe all this trumprie at once is according to the commandements of God to perserue our bodies and soules free from thies abhominations by a speedie seperation and withdrawing our selues from amongst them and to confute their lâ—…st and only Argument whereby they vpholde their ruinous kingdome namely their penall lawe by Christian patience and an vpright godlie life Herâ—… is the patience of the saints here are they that kepe the coÌ„maundements of God and the faith of Iesus Reuel 14. 12. He that ouercometh shalbe clothed in vvhite aray and I vvill not put out his name out of the booke of life but I vvill confesse â—…is name before my father and before his Angells Reuel 3. 5. THESE Arguments were more then a yeare an halfe since deliuered to Mr. CARTVVRIGHT M r. TRAVERS M r. CHARKE and M r. FLOYDE which still remaine vpon them vnanswered FINIS Lyes 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10 11 12 13 14 2. Scriptures in steade of Lyes Rom. 18. 1 Rom. 12. 6. 7. 8. 1. Cor. 12. entier Mat. 20. 25 26. Luke 12. 14 Act. 20. 29 Mat. 18. 17. Danyâ—…l 11. 36. c. 2. Thes. 2. 4. Iohn 3. 29. Cam 8. 12. Iohn 13. 13. 1. Pâ—…t 5. 4. 1. Cor. 8. 6. Reu. 13. 1. Reu. 1. 1â—… c. Iames 5. 12. Psal. 74. Dan. 7. 24. Reu. 9. Gal. 1. 6. 7. 8. Mat. 15. 9. 1. Ioh. 4. 3. Mat. 24. 15 Reuel 13. 17. 3. 4. 5. 6. 8. 9. 10. Iude. 11. 2. Peâ—… â—… 15 1. Tim. 6. 5. Iohn 10. 12. 13. 〈◊〉 â—… 14. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. Reu. 16. â—…0 Reu. 19. 2â—… 1. 2. 3. 4. â—… 6. 7. 8. 1. 2. 3. 5. 6. 1 â—…ere 31. 34. Act. 10. 43 Act. 15. 9. â—… Cor. 1. 2. 2 Isay. 65. 11 12. Leu. 20. 24 Iere. 15. 19. Ezâ—…k 16. 25 Eze. 23. 44 Iâ—…h 15. 1. 9. 2 Cor. 6. 14 3 Isay. 11. 10 12. Iohâ—… 12. 32 Mat. 18. 20 1 Pet. 2. 4. 5 4 Deuâ—… 5. 8. 1 Cor. 10. 28 Reuel 21. 8 5 Deut. 18. 15 Isay. 42. 1. Mat. 17. 5. Act. 3. 22. â—… Io. 4. 3. Mal. 1. 6. Luk. 19. 27 Iohn 3. 3 Ezek. 16 17. 19. and 44. 7. Lam. 1. 10. Deâ—…t 13. 3. Mat 7. 15 and 15. 14. Rom. 16. 17 2. Tim. 3. 5. 2 Iohn 10. Iere. 23. 29 6 1 Cor. 12. 12 1 Pet. 2. 4. 5 Rom. 12. 5 7 Rom. 12. 8. Ephes. 4. 11. Psal. 2. 2. 3. Lâ—…k 19. 14. 8 1 Tim. 6 13 14. Ephes. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 14. 37 Heb. 12. 28. 9 Ioâ—…n 8. 36. Gal. 4. 26 1. Pet. 2. 9. 10 Psal. 14 9. 9 Isay. 45. 17. Maâ—… 18. 17. Luk 10. 19 1. Coâ—… 5. 4. 2 Cor. 10. 4 5. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 12. 25.
constrainedlie confessed faith BAR. This distinction of AVGSTINE will deceiue you for how should the vnlawfull vngodlie actions of anie past be iustified by his faith following Faith doth not iustifie but forsake transgression Againe how should they be said to haue Faith or to haue left their sinnes which still cōtinue in the same cōfusion disorder false ministrie false worshipp false gouernment SPER. They doe not so BAR. I will prooue all this in due order And first that you haue the same people their seede in the same confusion GREEN All the land is now of your Church SPER. It is not so BAR. All the Queenes naturall subiects that dwell in anie Parish are of your Church because euerie Parish is of your Church SPER. All the Queenes subiects that dwell in our parishes are not of our Church BAR. They are of the parish Therfore of the Church SPER. There dwell manie papists that are not of our Church BAR. Euen those papists are of your Church And thus I prooue it None but those of the Church may offer in the Church or haue anie communion vvith the Saints or haue anie interest in the ministrie But the papists communicate vvith your Church ◅aue interest in the ministrie in that they contribute togither vvith the parish vnto the ministrie Therfore the papists that dwell amonge you are of your Church SPER. Whie is it not lawfull for the Minister to be maintained with the goods of vnbeleeuers BAR. Vnbeleeuers haue nothing a doe neither are bound to the maintenance of the ministrie This contribution is called in the new Testament a dutie communion of the Saints an offering sweete odoure vnto God But vnbeleeuers may haue no spirituall communion with the Saints neither may offer with them in the Church neither haue interest or anie thinge to do with the ministrie Therfore may not be bounde nor receiued to contribute vnto the maintenance of the ministrie SPER. I denie that BAR. Whie it is prooued by all these reasons Further it is expresslie forbidden Leuit. 22. 25. that the Priest might not receiue anie maner of offering were it neuer so perfect at the hand of a stranger Therfore much lesse may the Minister of Christ. Mr. Sperin in reading the text would giue no iudgment of it vntill he had further considered therof BAR. I will prooue it by a necessarie reason vnto you None that was not a Iewe or come vnto the faith might enter into the Tēple much lesse contribute or offer in the Temple At this time M r. EGERTON entered whoe beinge set downe with them made acquainted with the present discourse they proceeded as followeth The place of Leuit. being read againe further enforced thus The oblations of the vvicked are an obhomination vnto the Lord. But the tithes contributions of the papists are oblations of the vvicked Therfore thei are an abhomination c. SPER. But may not the minister receiue anie gifts of vnbeleeuers BAR. Yea they may receiue or inherit ciuile things that are giuen by or belonged to vnbeleeuers SPER. It is w◅itten 1. Cor. 10. If the vnbeleeuers bidd you to a feast c. eate making no question GREEN We doubt not but all Christians may receiue in priuate or Ciuill respects the goods or beneuolence of vnbeleeuers But you must put difference betwene that contribution in cōmunion to with the Church and ciuile priuate ben◅volence SPER. The Apostle Gala. 6. vvilleth all that are taught in the vvord to communicate of their goods vnto them that teach them But the papists are taught by vs in the vvord Therfore they may contribute vnto vs in our ministrie GREEN This place is to be vnderstood of such as are receiued into taught in the Church not of all them that are without the Church heare the ministrie therof The Apostle gaue not this rule to them BAR. The recusant papists are not instructed of you th'other papists are both instructed and they their seede admitted vnto the sacraments But all contribute pay tythes so are all of your Church SPER. In my Parish I admitt no papists or open vnworthie vnto the Sacraments GREEN Your Parish hath as yet made no seperatiō from the papists or prophane of the lande Therfore you do not seperate the vnworthie SPER. They are now beleeuers that before were vnbeleeuers they now professe willinglie that before professed by constraint and If ther be anie wicked I put them from the Sacraments BAR. You so fix your eies vpon your owne assertions as that you giue no eare to other mens reasons How oft hath this bene denied disprooued vnto you you haue neuer as yet made anie seperatiō but still remaine in the stepps sinnes of your fore-fathers neither haue you anie power to seperate anie from amonge you SPER. I haue power and doe put the wicked from the Sacraments BAR. What your selfe alone SPER. Yea with the consent of the Church BAR. I shewed you the last day what kinde of instrument your suspention puttinge from the Sacraments is you your parish haue not the power to ◅xcommunicat anie SPER. This is not true we haue power do excommunicat BAR. It is thē by the power of the BB s. not by the power of Christ. SPER. It is not by the power of the Bishopps but by the power of Christ. BAR. That is not so you haue neither power from Christ nor from the Bishopps to excommunicat anie you haue leaue in your seruice-booke to suspend from your sacrament but not to excommunicat without the Bishop SPER. We do excommunicat without the Bishop BAR. Then your Church hath two maner of excommunications SPER. That followeth not the Bishopps excomunication is but an approbation of ours BAR. That is not so The Bishop hath power to excommunicate when whom he will of your Parish that without your priuitie or consent Moreouer the Bishopps do excōmunicate by a latine writt but if your excomunication be such then is it Amichristian if it be after another maner then haue you two sorts of excōmunications in your Church SPER. When anie deserueth to be excommunicated then I the Church-wardens present such to the Bishop he excōmunicateth them BAR. Then the Bishop excōmunicateth not you you are but as they that gi◅e euidence information to the Iudg The Bishop is the Iudg. GREEN The Bishop doth not excōmunicate vpon your information neither for anie sinne how heinous soeuer But only for not appeeringe at or disobeying their Courts Moreouer as the Ordinary doth excōmunicat so doth he absolue whom he list without the priuitie of your Congregacōn EGERT SPER. The Bishop his excōmunication is but a Ciuile discōmunion BAR. GREEN What will you make the excōmunication of your Church a Ciuile action we neuer heard of anie such excomunication vntill Cooper Gwalter published their conceites therof EGER. SPE May not the Ciuile magistrate approueth ' excōmunication of the
not our ministerie of the BBs but by consent of a congregation GREN. Thus I proue you had your ministerie from the Bishop By the Bishops calling you administer and by none other Therfore COOP. SPER. We had not our ministrie by the Bishops onlie GREN. By the Bs. callings you administer and without the Bs. calling you cannot administer Therfore by the Bs. calling onlie SPER. We haue the Approbation of the congregation also BAR. You haue not Your Curats as is said are made Ministers iâ—… nubibus vvithout anie flocke Your Parsons are nominat by the Patron made by the B. Thus trust vpoÌ„ the flocke without either the knowledge priuity approbatioÌ„ or choise of the people SPER. The Patrons choise is the peoples choise BAR. How can you saie the Patrons choise is the peoples when they haue neither priuitie consent nor assent Be the PatroÌ„ a woman an Infant an Ideote haue he 40. benefices those in all the paâ—…ts of the lande such as he hath neuer seene or knowen yet doth he present the people must accept SPER. I had the approbation of the flock before I went vnto the Bishop and was a Minister before I was at the Bishop BAR. You could not haue your parsonadge before you had bene aâ—… the B. neither be a Minister without the B. were you not a Minister before you came to your flocke answere directlie SPER. I was made Minister by a Bishop before I had the approbation of the People BAR. What truth or agreement is in your speach Euen now you said your were a Minister before you came at the B. had the approbatioÌ„ of your flocke before Now you say which indeed is true you were made Minister by the B. before you had the approbation of the people SPER. I meant the B. London I had the approbatioÌ„ of my flocke before I went to him BAR. We reasoned all this while of the Bishopps indefinitely and not of anie one B. more then of an other But to what end serueth now the approbatioÌ„ of the people when you are made full Minister before SPER. I was a Minister in part but no full Minister before I had the approbation of the people BAR. See how you intangle your self How can you make this agree vnto your second Proposition That you were made Minister by a B. before you had the approbation of the people SPER. I hold not my self a Minister in the sight of GOD by the Bishops ordination Vntill I haue the peoples approbation BAR. GOD seeth knoweth all his workes from before all beginnings GOD knoweth all that he hath appointed set apart to the work of his ministrie euen before he made them or in their cradles So that God in his fore knowledg maie ordaine chosen vessells vnto his ministerie which yet in the â—…ight of meÌ„ are not to be held Ministers vntill they haue that lawfull calling which GOD hath perscribed thervnto which calling seing you want you are to be held no Minister in the sight of men also Moreouer the B. without the approbation of your flocke ordeyned you a Minister Now which way should you not hold your self a Minister after their Orders Or to what end serued the ordinatioÌ„ of the Bishop if you were not theÌ„ made Minister Here M r. COOPER hasted away said he could no longer tarie vvhervpon we ended this general conference yet notwithstanding the chamber Dore being locked no Porter neere to let them out M r. COOPER vsed speach to the standers by which after followeth VVe haue omitâ—…ed one especiall pointe that fell out in our Confereâ—…ce not perfectly remembring the due place vvhere yt should comâ—… in COOP. If you would not haue a ministrie sett ouer the vnbelieuing people how should the vnbelieuing people be called vnto the faith GREN. We shall shew you an other order to call the people to the faith according to CHRISTS Testament And not without warrant to sett the ministery of CHRIST ouer an vnbelieuing people to the peruerting of all GODS ordinances and committinge of Sacriledge hauing no promise of anie action you do in that â—…state COOP. Which way would you then haue theÌ„ called if they should not be instructed GREN. Both the Magistrate ought to compell the Infidells to heare the Doctrine of the Church and also with the approbation of the church to send fourth meete men with gifts graces to instruct the infidells being as yet no ministers or officers vnto them BAR. Furder euerie Christian is bounde both in his familie coÌ„uersacoÌ„n to call others by all meanes he may vnto the faith COOP. What if the Church be where ther is no magistrat is there alwaiâ—…s a magistrate BAR. Yea the Church caâ—…not be without a Magistrate neither can ther be a CoÌ„mon wealth or estate without a Magistrate There is alwaies a Mâ—…gistrate though not alwaies a Christian Magistrate COOP. Ther is not alwaies a Mâ—…gistrate BAR. Without a Magistrate there can be no society no trade no calling had COOP. Tâ—…er hath not beene alwaies a 〈◊〉 ouer the Church GREN. The Church hath alwaies beene in some common wealth or other Ther can be no Common wealth without a Magistrate COOP. What Magistrate was ther in Hâ—…bells time BAR. When the Church and all the world was in ADAMS household he no doubt was a Father a Magistrate a teacher a gouernour COOP. Theâ—… was no Magistrate ouer the Churche befor the lawe BAR. That is not so was not Melâ—…hisedeck a Magâ—…strate COOP. Melchisedeck vvas a figure of CHRIST not an ordinarie King BAR. Doth not the Scripture say he was king of Salem GREN. Was not Abraâ—…am a Magistrate ouer the Church COOP. Abraham was no Magistrate GREN. He was a Magistrate ouer his houâ—…hold his house-hold vvas then the Church BAR. Was not Ioseph a Magistrate thinke you COOP. Ouer the Egâ—…ptians after the heathen maner BAR. Heathens maâ—…e be lawfull Magistrates ouer the Church also But Ioseph was a Magistrate ouer the Church COOP. He was not a Magistrate ouer the Church BAR. He was a Magistrate ouer all Egipt ouer all Pharao his seruaÌ„ts Buâ—… the Church was then in Egipt emongst Pharao his seruants Therfore he was a Magistrate ouer the church as plentifullie appeareth in the history his brethren acknowledged him their Lord. GREN. It was so prophecied of him before as the visions and drâ—…ames Declared COOP. Ioseph was a figure of CHRIST BAR. What theÌ„ So were all the Kings of Iudâ—… therfore no Magistrats GREN. Moses also was a Ciuile Magistrâ—…te ouer the Church before the lawe COOP. He was an extraordinarie Magistrate he was not chosâ—…n by the people BAR. Whie is euerie Magistrate to be chosen by the people was not the ordinance of GOD a sufficient calling to the Magistracy GREN. MOSES was both called of GOD and approued his calling vnto before the people of Isrâ—…el COOP. MOSES was a Prophet therfor he could be no ordinary Magistrate BAR. DAVID also SALOMON were