Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	bind_v	earth_n	loose_v	5,255	5	10.5190	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A03398	A suruay of the pretended holy discipline. Contayning the beginninges, successe, parts, proceedings, authority, and doctrine of it: with some of the manifold, and materiall repugnances, varieties and vncertaineties, in that behalfe	Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610.	1593 (1593)	STC 1352; ESTC S100667	297,820	466

were giuen Omnibus veris presbyteris to all true Priests or Elders including in that number his vnpriestlie Eldermen Againe vpon these words of christ the keyes c. Hac metaphorica loquutione significatur oeconomi potestas Esa 22 22. qua funguntur omnes ministri in ecclesia dei vt apparet infra 18 18. By this metaphoricall speech is signified that power of Christ mentioned in Esay the key of the house of Dauid I will lay vppon his shoulders loe hee shall open and no man shall shut and hee shall shut and no man shall open which power all the Ministers in the Church of God doe enioye as it appeareth in Mathew Whatsoeuer ye binde in earth shall bee bound in heauen and whatsoeuer ye loose on earth shall bee loosed in heauen And vppon that place of Mathew the 18 Chapter and in manie other places by the Church and those binders and loosers there spoken of hee vnderstandeth his Eldership so consequently aswell his Aldermen as the Ministers of the worde Hee that with an open face to vse Cartwrightes terme doth affirme that either in Mathew the 16. 15. or in the place of Esay mentioned these vnpreaching Elders were ment or prefigured needeth not I warrant him at any time a vizard Indeed maister Cartwright is not of Bezaes mind herein For saith he in Math. 16. and in Ioh. 20. Christ vnder standeth that euery one of the ministers bindeth looseth by preaching but the wordes Math. 18.18 cannot bee drawen to the particular person of the minister Surelye you haue sponne a faire thredde For if your Aldermen be not aswell vnderstoode in the wordes of Christ Vnto thee I will giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen as in these Whatsoeuer yee binde on earth shall bee bound in heauen and whatsoeuer ye loose on earth shall be loosed in heauen It will fall out that they will haue no keies either to open or shut withall except peraduenture you will make your lockes with a springe and so indeed they maie shutte the dore but for openinge of it they maie blowe their nailes Heere you see Beza and Cartwright opposite and now you shall haue a fellow to impugne them both in a Theologicall position printed at Geneua sette out by Ant. Fayus and maintained there by one Danyell Niellius out of Math. 16.19 thus saith hee wee may reason To them onely the power of binding and loosing is giuen vnto whom the keyes of the kingdome of heauen are giuen for to haue binding and loosing is that same that it is to haue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen but vnto Peter the keyes were giuen and vnto them in whose name Peter aunswereth Christ demaunding whom the Iewes sayd hee was And because they were giuen ratione officij in regarde of his office it followeth that they were giuen to al qui in veritatis doctrina predicanda sunt ipsis successuri Who in preaching the doctrine of truth shall succeed them By these wordes then their disguised Aldermen must either haue assigned vnto them the same office that the Apostles had be made preachers or else they may put vp their pipes and goe shake their eares But yet more plainly we are aduertised in the same place from Geneua out of Iohn 20.23 We may also inferre after this sorte Christ after hee sent his Apostles as he was sent of the father he breathed on them the holy Ghost saying whose sinnes ye remit they shal be remitted whose sinnes ye retaine they shall be retayned To all them therefore and onely to them who are sent that authoritie is giuen But the Apostles onely are not sent For it is Christ who ascending into heauen gaue to his Church Pastors and Doctors and altogether to that end and for handling that worke Ephes. 4.11.13 Now ioyne both these inferences with that which Beza Cartwright haue before set downe and let him for mee beare the bell for a reconciler of contrarieties that is able in anie probable sorte to make anie one of them friendes with another or for euer hereafter to agree together And yet I know that they of Geneua can do much You must bring them very strange discords but they will make some harmonie of them Whereas the confessions of Bohemia of Augusta and the Apologie of the Church of England doe a cribe these censures wee speake of to the Priestes or Ministers of the word onely the Geneuians to make the world beleeue that in effect all the reformed Churches doe agree with that of theirs and with those other that weare her cullors will needes take vpon them in their annotations ioyned to the ende of their harmony to expoūd the meaning of the said confessions how they must be rightly vnderstoode As for example it is committed to the ministers of the word● saith the confession of Augusta excludere impios c. a●communione ecclesiae to exclude the wicked c. from the communiō of the church Nimirum that is to say affirme the Geneuians ex presbiterij legitimè congregati fententia c. according to the sentence of the Eldership lawfully assembled whereas it neuer as yet set vp any such Eldership Againe the said confession Hic necessario c. heere the Church must yeeld them due obedience meaning to the sayde ministers so excluding the wicked Nempe come in the Geneuians verbi ministris senioribus that is to say to the Ministers of the worde and to the Elders who were neuer allowed of by that confession to this purpose pretended The Apologie of the Church of England hauing shewed that the administration of the keyes doth onely belong to ministers of the worde and that Sacerdos that is the Bishop as I thinke hee meaneth for the execution of these censures is the iudge Sacerdos that is say the Geneuians vnus designatus ex pastorum collegio one chosen out of the Colledge of Pastors Deinde etiam intelligiturpraeire quum de censuris ecclesiasticis agitur leg●tinam presbyterij cognitionem And furthermore also let it be vnderstoode when speache is of the ecclesiasticall censure that there goeth before a lawfull determination of the Eldership Whether the Apologie haue that meaning the meanest of any sense at all may iudge And thus they deale also with the Bohemian confession So that as I sayd to serue their purposes they can make ex quo libet quid libet of any thing what they list And by these examples ye may also safely learne what credite is to be giuen in this cause both to them and all the rest of that humour when they would seeme to alledge eyther scriptures Councels or Fathers for their most vnwarrantable and counterfeit Aldermen But if it were graunted vnto them for a moneth or two that their Eldermen should be ioyned with the ministers of the worde and haue an equall authoritie with them of binding and loosing would they content themselues therewithall It is

Princes and other of the Nobilitie that follow the court to haue particular Consistories in their priuate houses consisting euerie one of a minister and some of the honestest of their Families Here are then Consistories to be erected in the church according to Cartwrightes thirde acceptation of the word church that is in priuat houses and likewise a Parish not of many but of one familie And peraduenture in time it may so come about as that this will bee currant doctrine in Englande not onely for Noblemen to haue Elderships in their priuate houses but for Gentlemen likewise For now it is already groen thus farre that many of both sortes yea some but meane gentlemē will haue their seueral ministers for comming to their parish churches though they be hard by their dores they account it a dishonorable matter their parlor-seruice and priuate speaking as they terme it pleaseth them best I might here adde howe D. Sohnius is bolde to dissent from Cartwright where speakinge of the diuerse significations of the worde church hee sayth Particularis c. The particuler church is deuided and hath her name agreeable to the diuersitye of places that is Nations Prouinces Townes Parishes Houses or Families For so there is a church of one Prouince of one Citie of one towne of one house And so he quoteth many places of scripture for this his assertion But to proceede Danaeus a man as well learned for ought is yet seene as Cartwright is doth not thinke that by the institution of Christ there must needes bee an Eldership not onely in euery Citie but in euery vplandish and countrie towne also For he sayth if I vnderstand him that in the Apostles times the ruling Elders of whom the Eldership is chiefely named was vsed to be established in vnaquaque tantū ciuitate in qua erat ampla et populosa ecclesia et magnus fideliū numerus In euery city onely where the church was populous In which citye hee further addeth quaeque ciuitatis et ecclesiae pars seu paroecia suū habebat presbyterum Euery parish had a priest or minister as the parishes in the countrie had also oppidatim that is towne by towne a priest much like to those whom we call in our times Curatores Curates Furthermore also the reforming ministers of Scotlande do account their platforme now in practice there to be as agreeable to the worde of God as M. Cartwrightes and yet as the Chronicles do report they haue but 52. Elderships in Scotland those placed in their chiefest cities and great townes Vnto euerie of which Elderships as I am informed 24. particular churches or parishes for the most part do appertaine none of them hauing any such particular Eldership of their owne but are ruled controled and censured by those in the sayde cities or townes whereunto they are adioyned and subiect In the Low countries it is true that euerie parish hath her Eldership But what a kinde of Eldership Heare a verie learned and a graue man of that countrie Ruri in pagis c. In the countrie villages in some places they haue but a Pastor one Elder and a Deacon In Gaunt euerye parish likewise had theyr Eldership consisting of moe or fewer as the quantitie of them were besides those there was a consistorye for the whole citie All which particular Elderships in the countrye cities when any matters of greater momēt fell out especially for excōmunicatiō Ea potestas nulli particulari ecclesiae concessa est that power or authoritie is graunted to no particular church sine concilio et assensu generalis consistorij in magna vrbe et in pagis et oppidulis colloquij siue classis without the councel and consent of the generall consistorye in cities great townes of the conference or classis in the country townes villages So as here we find a number of Christs kingdoms set vp but they want their scepter power without the which our men would not giue a pinne for all the rest For so they are vnperfect maymed bodies of Christ. But to come to that which is the patterne of all right church regiment euen to the Eldership of Geneua There are in that citie as I haue heard foure or fiue great parishes and in the territorie belonging vnto it almost 20. and yet for the censuring and guiding of them all they haue but one Eldership according as it seemeth to the Iewish order there being in Ierusalem but one Sanedrim yet many Synagogues Of the which Geneuian reformation it may iustly be affirmed if Cartwright his fellowes with vs say truly first that the church of Geneua hath neglected the commandement of God the institution of Christ the commaundement and practise of the Apostles in that there is not placed an Eldershippe there in euery parish secondly that the sayd church being neither the catholicke church nor one particular parish nor the faithfull company of one familie cannot rightly haue so much as the name of the church nor be truely termed the well squared bodye of Christ with all the true dimensions and limites of it And certaynely there is here no starting hole as farre as I can discerne for the excuse of that Reformation and platforme except it maye bee iustified that all these foure or fiue and twentie parishes or there aboutes are so trussed together that they doe and maie all at once meet in one Congregation are taught with one mouth which to affirme besides that their practise is otherwise will bee thought I trust great boldnes vnlesse they can find a pastor with Stentors voyce who by report could make as great a noise as fifty men I cannot chuse but put you heere in minde of a poynte in Maister Cartwright that seemeth verie strange vnto mee Hee sayth that there were moe that did externally professe Christ in the Apostles times then there are nowe insomuch as wee are not nowe the tithe of them that is the tenth parte Nowe set these thinges together The Church in the Scriptures where it signifieth not the Catholique Church nor one priuate familye doth signifye one particular congregation and no moe are rightlye to bee of one congregation then maye at once bee taught by one mouth And thereuppon will it not followe that if the Apostles were as wise as Mayster Cartwright to bounde their Congregations whereas there is mention in the Scriptures of the Church of Rome of the Church of Corinth of the Church of Antioche of the Church of Ephesus of the Church of Ierusalem we must thinke there were no moe christians there in any one of those Cities then might at one time heare one preacher And by that account there are moe christians within the citie of London the suburbs thé were in al those cities twise as many more Which if M. Cartwright will deny to be true he must needs cōses for the credit of Scotland or of

coulde not depute it to the Apostle So as it remaineth that he did it by his owne authoritie or at the least in the name of the rest that were ministers of the word which will not agree with our mens platforme If here exception be taken to Caluin as that in some other of his writings he is of an other minde you must bee aduertised that he beginning to write betimes did in diuers thinges vpon better aduise change his opinion And therefore in one of his epistles desireth those that wil reade his workes that they would first take the paines to reade his institutions as conteininge in them for those things there set downe his verie mind and setled iudgment But what if Beza doe in sort agree herin with Caluin Surely if I vnderstand him he doth For vpon these wordes Cum impositione manuum presbyterij id est saith he ordinis presbyterorum qu● nomine caetus omnis ille significatur qui in verbo laborabat in ea ecclesia that is the order of Priestes or Elders by which name all that company is signified which did laboure in the word in that Church Disburden then for shame your counterfet Aldermen of this ioint-dutie in your Eldership or at the leaste let them rest vntill you be better resolued amongst your selues howe to imploie them least yow bring them within the compasse of the punishment of Corah Dathan and Abiram as I haue said before CHAP. 17. Of their Aldermens ioynt office with the ministers in binding and loosing of sinnes and of their disagreement therin COncerning their pretended authoritie equall with their ministers for their procedings are by voyces in excommunication of the stubborne and absolution of the repentant will they trouble themselues thinke you with any testimonies out of the old testament Indeede they affirme that these censures were resembled there by the authority of discerning bettwene the cleane and the vncleane betwene the holy vnholy of shutting vp the leprous and releasinge them of purginge the vncleane of cursing resembling bindding of blessing resembling loosing c. And be it so But where is there mention in any such places that your pretēded Elders had any authoritie to intermeddle with these matters Are they not throughout the whole olde testament euermore ascribed to Aaron and his sonnes Nay might any that were of other tribes then of the tribe of Leui deale heerwithal Speake franckly truly might they so Beza could find no answere to this question but Probabile est it is probable they might whereas I am perswaded there are fewe assertions of greater absurditie or of lesse probabilitie For the Leuites themselues that were not of the sonnes of Aaron had nothinge to doe in these thinges Trauers defininge what suspension is saith it is a commaundement or prohibition of an Elder of abstaininge for a certaine time from the receauing of the Sacraments For the proofe wherof he groundeth himselfe vpon this shadow as hee termeth it That by the law the vncleane and vncircumcised were prohibited the celebrating of the Passeouer entrance into the Temple Which caused saith hee Ioiada the priest to appoynt certaine porters to the gates of the Temple By which testimonies what hee else proueth then that his Elders were of the number of these Porters I finde not And that surelye agreeth best with Bezaes opion mentioned Horum proculdubio partes erant c. It was out of doubt the dutye of the Arch-rulers of the Synagogues not to admitte excommunicated persons into the Synagogues With which offices if they of that consorte will bee content to infeoffe their Aldermen and goe no further I see no cause why any man should greatly enuie them that preferment But when from dore-keepers they must be so aduaunced as that they must bee abdicators and comforters as they terme them that is more then vpon such weake collections is fit to bee allowed of For where they giue them these iointe offices with the Minister of abdicating the stubborne and of consolation of the repentant if they would speake out it is as much as though they should saie that they haue equall authoritie with them of suspension and excommunication of bindinge and loosing of retaining and remitting of sinnes No no they maie sende them to Parishgarden to loose and bind beares for they are farre vnmeet to haue anie such authoritie ouer mens soules That those which were not Bishops or Priestes that is ministers of the word and sacraments should haue that authoritie which they speake of is a matter that was neuer heard of in the Church of God for a 1500. yeares Cartwright in handling this pointe was able to bring for his purpose but one pertinent authoritie in shew out of all the auncient Fathers vz. out of Tertullian of certaine Presidents that shut offenders from praiers in the Congregation which presidents as hee well knoweth the same Tertullian saith expresslie in an other place were Ministers of the worde and sacraments in these wordes speaking of the Lordes supper Nec de aliorum manu quàm presidentium sumimus neyther do wee receaue at the handes of any other but of the gouernours It is worthie the consideration to see into what extremities men do commonlie fall that will presume to builde the Church vppon the straw and stubble of their owne deuises All the world cannot perswade the papists but that the keies of the kingdome of heauen were onely giuen to Peter and so to his successors and that from him the rest of the Apostles were to receaue them and so must their successors from the Pope Against whom we insist with the auncient Fathers that what was saide to Peter appertained to them all as namelie for one reasō in that where the keyes were promised to Peter tibi dabo I will giue them to thee when this promise was performed Christ gaue them vnto all the Apostles alike and to their successors Whose sinnes yee remit they shall be remitted and whose sinnes ye retaine they shall bee retayned which is the true vse of the keyes Now who are to be termed the Apostles successors if wee will belieue the said auncient Fathers that were in my opinion as honest and learned men as those that oppose themselues against them wee must confesse that they were at the least Ministers of the worde and sacraments and so we haue pleaded in this cause against the papists But now on the other side the world is so come about that whereas the papistes doe giue the keies but to Peter only and so to the Pope where the auntient fathers doe giue them to all the Apostles equally and so to their successors ministers as I said at the leaste now these newe start-ups will needes thrust their aldermen into that number and they must be also the Apostles successors If men will be seduced wilfully by such falseteachers they maie What a ridiculous sayinge is this of Bezaes That In persona Apostolorum the keyes

our prouision and maintenaunce as preachers were dealt with all in the Apostles times I know what will here be aunswered When wee see that you that be Ministers are become such men as the Apostles were we will vse you as they were vsed What will ye persecute vs No we will bring that which wee haue and laie it at your feete I beshrew my heart if I belieue you But if I did the matter were not great For there neuer were such men nor euer shall be to the end of the world as the Apostles were So as where they limit their liberalitie with that caution it is asmuch as if they should saie we would be glad to finger that which you haue and then get more as you could Nay it smelleth surely of a greater prophanation For your ministers do teach you now the same doctrine that the Apostles taught And would you desire more Doe you look for it at their hands that they should worke miracles Is your pretended great zeale come to this that now you haue neede of miracles If anie man thinke I fight against mine own shadowe and that there are none so wickedlie bent as to wishe an vtter spoile of the Church he is to be aduertised that M. Barrow with all his Sectaries moe in number then is imagined and latelie increased by one a franticke petitioner they are the men Indeed the other sort of Consistorial reformers are growen to be wiser For a while it is true that manie of them dreamed of such a matter They talked how much of the church liuings might be emploide this waie and how much that waie Tithes were Popish toies yet laie men might haue them and Ministers should be paide out of the Exchequor The humble motioner maketh mention of some such waie to put Ministers to their pensions but he confuteth it and brocheth another deuise of his owne Trauerse he doth not thinke that Tithes are due by the worde but yet he would haue them to be continued to the church howbeit not to be gathered in such sort as they are The Magnifico could be content to haue the Tithes but for sooth Princes must take order to haue thē brought trulie into the Ministers Barns that they maie not be troubled with so base a thing as to looke to the manner of tithing Nescio quid habet sordidi singulorum agros ne fallatur aestimare c. that is as his Translator in Cābridge saith It is a base and vile thing for them to view euery mans fielde least they be deceaued and to knowe the number and increase of euery mans flocke or cattell and of other thinges c. Manie Ministers in some Countries not far from hence who thinke themselues as iollie fellowes as Maister Trauerse would be glad with all their harts to abase themselues to this nescio quid sordidi if they might When reformation of Religion was first vrged it was thought such an effectual motiue as would procure attention vz. to intitle Princes after a sort to the church-goods The learned men perswaded themselues that if by anie pollicie they could ouerthrow poperie it would be afterwardes a verie easie matter to recouer them againe If error and superstition had beene so beneficiall to the Church they nothing doubted but that truth and sinceritie would bring forth at the least as plentifull fruictes Besides they did not so yeelde ouer their right in those matters to Princes but it was done with diuers cautions and prouisoes by vertue whereof they supposed in time to recouer all againe into their own handes But it is not good to dallie with Princes Indeede they plaide warye beguile themselues which since hath wonderfullie mooued them And now they all of them in a manner doe runne vppon this ground vz. that Kinges and Princes are bound by the word of God to restore to the Church such goods as heretofore they haue taken from her and generally that nothing once separated from a common vse and bestowed vppon the Church may be afterwards alienated to anie other vse Cardinall Sadolette charging the Ministers of Geneua that by the which course they had taken there they did nouas sibi potentias nouos honores quaerere seek to themselues newe powers and new honors M. Caluin aunswereth in this sort that they did not affect nor gape after any other riches or dignities then such as at that time was fallen to their lot testes erunt omnes qui nos audierunt as all they can witnes that haue heard vs. Howbeit the perceiued within a while after that the ministers had too little and that the ciuile magistrats had greatlie ouerreached them in that behalfe Whereuppon he began in all his sermons for the most part to insist much vppon the restitution of the Church-goods Capito confesseth in generall termes but such as may wel be extended to this matter that the rash dealing which had ben practised for the abolishing of Poperie had ben very inconuenient Dominus videre dat c. God dooth le● vs now see c. quantum praecipiti indicio vehementiaque inconsulta abijciendi ita pontificis nocuerimus what hurt we haue done by rash iudgement and inconsiderate vehemency of banishinge the Pope after such a manner One Zuickius finding the mischiefe also in Constance of the Magistrates grapling verie greedilie for the Churche-goodes writeth thus to Maister Caluin Quanta bonorum Ecclesiasticorum s●l ratio habenda c. What regard there ought to be had of the goods of the Church I need not to recite vse your indeuour with all good men that they woulde exhorte our Magistrates earnestly to the lawfull vse of those goods Huc enim ventum videtur c. For nowe it seemeth to be come to this passe which I say not without griefe that a great part of our Magistrates doe belieue that then onely indeede they escape from vnder the kingdome of Antichrist si cum bonis ecclesiae ludant pro libito nec vlli disciplinae subsint if they may play with the goodes of the Church at their pleasures and be subiect to no kinde of Discipline O egregium Christianismum O worthy Christianitie Whether Maister Caluin did satisfie Zuickius desire in mouing the magistrates of Constance to the effect mentioned I know not But what he writ to Farellus vpon the very same occasion you shall heare The church-liuings were vsed in the very same manner at Neocome that they were at Constance Farellus being the minister intreated M. Caluin to write to the magistrats at Neocome for their desisting from that sacrilegious course To whō Maister Caluin returned this answere in effect vz. that they themselues the ministers at Geneua were as hardlye handled in the same respect with their owne magistrats and that it were therefore a very absurd point for him to seeke to reforme the magistrates of other Cities abroad before he should haue reformed his owne first at home His wordes are as it