they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
other mens writing and so would I haue others vnderstand myne It is most true that Origem Ambrose Augustine Hierom the other fathers of the Church haue their seuerall errors one doth write against an other most vehemently What maruell is it that these did differ seing that â—he Apostles theÌ„ selues could not agree alwayes in all pointes Paule did withstand Peter in the face before all men Platina one of your owne storie writers affirmeth that the Popes them selues whom you brage so much of did repugne one an others decrees The next Pope saith he either breaketh or vtterly repealeth his predecessors decrees For these little petie Popes had no other studie to occupie them selues with all but only to deface the name of the former Popes of which church were not only these Popes but also your owne scholemen pillers of your religion How came it to passe that these thinges were vttered in your owne boks Barnardus non vidit omnia Barnarde did not see all things Hic magister non tenetur Here one maister is not to bee receiued Thomas Aquine saith that we are not boÌ„nd vpon the necessitie of saluatioÌ„ to beleue not only the Doctours of the Churche as Hierom. August â–ª but also neither the church it selfe sauing only matters concerning the substaunce of faith But lett all mens aucthoritie passe and receiue that remaining in eight Persons the which which the holy Apostle wriceth Whosoeuer bringeth not the Doctrine of the Gospell receiue them not And againe If wee or an Angell from heauen doe preach any other doctrine theÌ„ you haue receiued hold him accursed To conclud we ought not to leane either to this man or that to the right hand or to the left to this church or that church in any thing whatsoeuer further then the truth of Gods word doth direct vs Neither doeth our saluation depend vppon anie earthly man but we ascribe it wholy to our lord sauiour Christ by whose stripes onely we are healed Papist 11 MOreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in the time on which they hold the true Church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the catholik Church was bound to goe from the church which they sawe and which taught them both that article all other things touching their faith by which they were christened receiued al other sacramentes commodities of saluation And whether they were bound to seeke for this vnknowne closse congregation which they could neither come vnto nor by â—hich they neuer receaued any benefit nor â—ould receiue any so forsake the church â—y whome and in whome they receiued both â—heir faith sacraments Shew me therfore â—hat the Christian men of those dates were charged to beleue any other church or seke for any other church theÌ„ that which taught them the articles of the church and baptized them And I recant Answeare 11 YOu further demauÌ„d Whether the people when the Church was hid were bound to goe from the church which they sawe seeke the vnknowne church beleue the same If you will vouchsafe to peruse that which I haue noted heretofore which is also confirmed by sundrie learned authorities viz. that the true church of God is to be sought for to be found only by the scripturs which are the foundations of the same church you may be satisfied heerein that the people ought to stay them selues vpon the scriptures not to beleue any further then Gods word leadeth theÌ„ The true church of God is not alwayes most apparant in earth or consistinge of the greatest number This appeareth by Noah in setting him selfe against all the worlde the true Church onely excepted then were saued in the arke and all the worlde else drowned Was not Lot his small familie the true Church of God deliuered by the Angells and the fiue whole citties destroyed â–ª where was the Church in the time of Elias when he complained most bitterly and said I haue bene verie ielous for the Lord God of hoastes For the children of Israel haue forsaken the couenant broken downe the altars slaine thy Prophetes with the swoord I only am lefte and they seeke my life to take it away Where was the Church when Esay the Prophet cried out How is the faithfull cittie become an harlot it was full of iudgement iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers their siluer is become drosse their wine is mixed with water their Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues Where was the Church when Dauid the Prophet did breake for the into theise words there is not one that doeth good no not one If there were any Church of God in these times in which these Propheâ—es liued no doubt it was in verie fewe or els hid altogether otherwise they would not so greeuouslie haue complained of the want thereof And yet there was in all â—ese times a Church in outwarde forme â—ewe to the iudgment of man supposed to â— the true Church where the Iewes the â—â—e Church at what time they bosted most â— the outwarde beautie of their Church â—ying We are the temple of the Lord or â—hen they sayd wee are the children of God whereas euen at that time they went â— whoring after their owne inuentions But as the Scribes Pharisies vaunted â—em selues that they were the true Church â—f God the Disciples of Moses the sonnes â—f Abraham where as in deede by the teâ—â—imonie of our sauiour Christ they worâ—â—ipped God in vaine teachinge the preâ—eptes and doctrines of men and erred for â—hat they knowe not the scriptures were â—ypocrites dissemblers deuouring wiâ—owes houses vnder a colour of longe praiâ—r euen so you with your Church of Rome â—hough you bragge neuer so much of your â—uccession and aucthoritie the holy ghost â—lainly sheweth that your Babilon shall â—aue a fal Our sauiour Christ telleth both â—ou the pharisees that you haue made through your own deuises the temple of God adenn of theues Triumph neuer so much that you are the catholike church â–ª that you are in the arke of Noah you are none of Gods neither shall be till you renounce abolish your vaine ceremonies â— false worshipping of God other thinges which you do contrarie to his holy wordeâ— The true church of God is coÌ„pared to the Moone which sometimes is full clere aâ— bright sometimes in the Eclips is wan â— darke so the church of God is now great now small now calme and in quietnesse nowe subiect to tempests and troubles nowe in many nowe in fewe And therefore you are greatlie deceiued in that you do thinke the Church vtterly extinguished wheÌ„ it appeareth not at your pleasure Thus you may learne by sundrie writers that God hath had wil haue alwaies his church whether it be more or lesse One which hath written the Forte of
the comming of Christ sauing Iohn Bapâ—iste and he thirty yeares of age before hee preached was there no churche or was Gods spirite decayed and his trueth vanâ—uished all this while â–ª God forbid that â—ee shoulde bee so rashe in iudgement as â—nce to thinke so For Gods spirite which â—s the coÌ„forter of the faithful hath instrucâ—ed the churche of God whether it hath appeared or bene hidde whether it hath beene close or open whether in manie or â—n fewe euer since the beginning So Christe Iesus hath promised that his spirit shoulde remaine with the children of God though the wicked would not receiue him because they see him not neither knowe him The comfortable Spirite of God doeth woorke saluation â—oth adopt into Gods fauoure doth puriâ—â—e our heartes doeth moue vs to all good and godlie actions doth comforte vs in al daungers and confirmeth vs to expecte the comming of our sauiour Christ Therfore to this spirite with the Father and the Sonne be all honour laude and praise Papist 16 SHewe me againe whether anie man can be saued except he beleeue the catholike Church and that is it which in the face of all the world hath practised preaching the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwayes had the ministring of the Sacramentes the hearing of matters in coÌ„trouersie the orderly succession of Bishoppes vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnitie in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite a woorking of miracles remission of sinnes the true sense and interpretation of Gods word that is beawtified with diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with virgins martirs with confessors and the rest Prooue vnto me that this is not the true Church or that we be bounde to obey this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts raised by the difficultie of the scripture or by the vaine contention and pride of heresie And I recant Answeare 16 Suppose that there was neuer any man which would looke to haue saluation by â—ods mercies in Christ that euer denied â—e Church of god So we beleeue that â—od hath had his Church euer since the â—ginning which Church is the Company â— the faithfull dispersed through out the â—ce of the whole earth which church is the â—ouse of Christ builded vppon the doctrine â— the Apostles and Prophets Christ him â—fe beeing the heade corner stone Yet â—e vtterly denye your Church of Rome to â— this true Church of god The reasons â—d causes why we will not close handes â— agree with your Church be these First â—ur Church dooth refuse Christ Iesus to â— her head in that she setteth vp her Pope â— be her head wherin she wil be gouerned â— all things euen against gods holy word â—erefore your Church is not of god That â—hrist is the heade of the true church not â— but the spirit of God testifieth that God â—ath appointed Christ ouer all things â— be the head to the Church which is â—s body And again The husband is the â—yues head euen as Christ is the heade â—f the Church and he is the same which â—eueth saluation vnto his body Your church appointeth otherwaies to be saueâ— by then onely Christes death and passion yea doth persecute Christ in his members taketh away the key of knowledge whiâ— is the woorde of God from Gods people for that ye wil not suffer them to haue it â— their knowne tongue you feede them nâ— with the sweete pastures of the holy scriptures but with the dregges of your blind Ceremonies and vayne traditions yoâ— teach them to pray in a straunge languagâ— to woorship the creature in steede â— the Creator you mixe the woorde of Goâ— with your owne deuises not to the benefite of Gods people but to get mony anâ— to enrich your selues with the spoile â— their soules You sett out all your practises as you call them to sale For of youâ— church it is saide Omnia Romae vaenaliaâ— All thinges are to bee had for monye aâ— Rome The Poet saith That Templeâ— Priestes altars sacrifices crownes fierâ— frankencense yea heauen is to be soldâ— and God him selfe But you giue smalâ— credit vnto this author Will you hearâ— what one of your approoued doctors saith Roma dat omnbus omnia dantibus omnia Romae cum praecio Rome doth â—iue to al men which doo giue all things â—o her all thinges are there to be had for â—ony at Rome Your owne decretales â—y That Rome is the head of coueteousâ—esse and therefore all thinges are there â—o be solde Your Popedome is in part â—ainteined with the tribute of Curtesans â—r common stues which is the rewarde of â—niquitie Thus you forbid lawfull matriâ—onie and mainteine open lecherie And â—hereas you would haue the worlde to beâ—eeue that your Church of Rome hath alwayes had the due and right administratiâ—n of the Sacramentes vnitie in faith orâ—erly succession of Bishoppes euen from Peter vniformitie in solempne ceremonies â—ebating of matters in controuersie all holy functions commended by Christ as virgins martirs and confessors and that all Churches are bound to obey the Church of Rome in all controuersies and doubtes raysed by the difficulty of the scriptures it shall appeare to all men that these are but vaine ostentations and shewes without truth But you wil aske me who shal iudge this matter for sometimes you stay vpon Counceles sometimes vppon Fathers sometimes vpoÌ„ customes Truly I would but wishe you and euery indifferent reader to examine whether your masse doe agree worde by worde with the last supper of our sauiour Christe You haue culleâ— foorth these woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie And therevppoâ— haue framed your masse The wordes be comfortable if you would take theÌ„ in a spirituall sense and meaning to signifie vnto vs the bodie of Christe as the godlie Father Augustine doth expouude those same woordes Non dubitauit dominus dicere hoc est corpus meum cum daret signum corporis sui Our Lord saieth hee doubted not to say This is my bodie when as he gaue a signe of his bodie Likewise Tertullian saith Hoc est corpus meum hoc est figura corporis mei â–ª This is my bodie that is to say This is a figure of my body But what shal I speak of al the abuses of your masse as the consecration the eleuation the aduocation the priuate receiuing the vnknowen tongue the ministration in one kinde keeping the â—uppe from the Laie people making it a propiciatorie sacrifice for the quicke and dead which all are moste contrarie vnto Christe his institution in his last supper Furthermore you haue corrupted Baptisme and haue deuised fiue other Sacraâ—entes more then Christe hath ordained â—d appointed in his worde Touhcing your succession of bishopes â—d vnitie in religion they are two things â—hich sound verie well together If so bee â—u can proue your succession out of the â—orde
his went about continuaâ—lie preaching the Gospel the Pope is carrieâ— about vppon mens shoulders to shewe hâ— pride and he and his labour continuallie tâ— suppresse the Gospell Beholde how the Popâ— and his Prelates are in al things contrarie tâ— Christ so that it is in vaine to setle our faitâ— vpon them or to count them the catholikâ— church As for their vniuersal coÌ„sent wherof they boast so much what is it but as they them selues are blind so must al their priestâ— nedes lead a blind people in a blind way consenting together in this that they knowe nothing of God neither will learne anie thing therefore babble they al their church seruice in that tongue that they do not vnderstand least the people should heare the worde of God in their knowen tongue vnderstande it and beleeue it Thus are they like a sort of blind men who may easilie consent together that they see nothing And I would to God that they would confesse that they see nothing for then their sinne were pardonable but nowe they say they see with the old Pharisees therefore their sinne remaineth The Papistes consent wee graunt but against the trueth not in the trueth They consent â— the Iewes and Turkes consent to walke the blindenesse of their owne heartes â—ey speake not according to the woorde GOD therefore there is no light in â—em saieth the Prophet Esaias And as â—emie the Prophete testifieth and saieth â—at they haue reiected the worde of â—e Lorde and what wisedome canne â—e in them They knowe not God and who â—eth not knowe that all trueth must be â—ied by his holie worde They are blinde â—d knowe not GOD and in this point are â—orse then either Turkes or Iewes that â—are câ—ntrarie to his worde woorshippe â—nd serue God in Images and idolls They â—nowe not GOD that dare accompt him â—ther not perfectlie iust or not perfectlie â—ercifull These blinde Papistes say that GOD wil be satisfied and pleased with huâ—aine iustice and satisfactions whiche the Prophete Esaie doeth call menstruouse cloutes so take they from God his perfect iustice and for his mercie they say that it onelie supplieth that whiche wanteth in mans merites What a patching is this of iustice of mercie and merites Againe they say that GOD hath not set downe in his Scriptures a perfect rule to all good workes but that they must add thereto their deuises of seruing and honoring God which neuer came in his remembrance neither were euer mencioned in his holie word wherin they must either make God not perfect in wisedome but ignorant of such things or not perfect in loue that would not declare such necessarie pointes vnto vs and so by their doctrine his infinit wisdome and infinit loue is denied whereby in effect they doe denie him to be god Againe these poore blind papistes know not Christ nor the scriptures wheÌ„ they make him a body infinit that may be in many places in heauen in earth and in ten thousand places at once where the scriptures do plainlie teach vs That he would not take the nature of Angels but our humaine nature and became like vs in all thinges sinne only excepted and that the heauens must conteine him vntill the time that all things be restored They know not Christ to be the onlie Mediatour of intercession and redemption the onelie Priest that prayeth and sacrificeth for sinnes our onelie King and Prophet for they teach the cleane contrarie They knowledge none of these offices of Christ to beloÌ„g to him alone but giue the power thereof to other creatures Therefore are they but onelie by name Christians â—ow may we saffelie ioyne to such a church â—hirdlie they knowe not the holy Ghost to be the only satisficer and certifier of the conscience they haue so manie other satisfactions and certificates of their owne deuises and so â—â—nie that a man can be certaine of his saluation by the spirit of god They knowe not that the whole Scripture is giuen by the Spirit of God is profitable to teach to improue to correct to instruct in righteousnesse that the maÌ„ of God may be made perfect to all good works But being led with a contrarie spirit eueÌ„ the spirit of errour as Paule saith they doe teach the doctrine of diuels forbidding meates and forbidding to marrie Thus the papistes in their doctrine erring in the principal articles of our Christian faith as also in their other commaundements cannot be the true Catholike church As for their outward forme of gouernement wherevpon they do so much boast let all men consider what it is They neither haue the names nor the offices nor the discipline appointed by Christe and his Apostles or practised in the primatiue Church Christe our sauiour commaunded his twelue Apostles to publish the Gospell the which these men labour to suppresse As for their discipline and gouernement in their courtes it is not to suppresse sinne but by feeding vppon the sinnes of the people to make them selues fat and riche They call their Courtes spirituall but they be carnall earthlie and diuelish Their suspensions excommunications and absolutions for monie Their dispensations for marriage quarter sermons are all for monie All sinnes in that court may be bought and solde for monie What haue they nowe to boast of when they neither haue the right order of gouernement neither reteine the right offices functions nor so much as the names allowed in the scriptures As for vs whom they accompt so coÌ„temptible we confirme the antiquitie and succession of the church from Christ his Apostles because we teach the selfe same doctrine and none other but that which we receiued of them which is written in the old and newe Testaments This is the succession which God him selfe promised to remaine for euer My words which I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy lippes nor out of the mouth of thy seede for euer saith the Lord so that wee may iustly approue our succession in the word and the sacraments which are the chief markes of the church Neither vse we as they do anie moe sacraments then Christ him selfe ordeined As for the names of our officers we cal them the ministers of Christ or like names according to the scriptures and they do the offices appointed by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles And we vse when we may do require alwayes that discipline that our maister Christ taught his Apostles practised to wit first brotherlie admonition in priuate then before some others afterwards if there be no repentance to tell the church last of all if the offender doe remaine obstinate to excommunicate from the sacrameÌ„ts Loe in fewe wordes the names the offices and our church gouernement we vse all grounded vpon Gods holy word not vpon the phantasies of men as yours is O ye Papistes repent therfore imagine no more such motiues subtile questions least your shame
hath cast away Gods holie â— worshipping images and idols and goâ—horing from God after her owne inâ—ns hath rebelled against the words â— Lord and despised the counsell of the â— high Therefore came the iust iudgeâ— of God vppon her as it did vppon the â—sh church of old Where the Lord saith your iniquities are ye solde and for â—r transgressions is your mother forsaken Againe Pleade with your â—ther pleade with her for shee is not wife neither am I her husband buâ— her take away her fornications c. I make her like a wildernesse and â— her for thirst and I wil haue no pitieâ— on her children for they are childreâ— fornication Loe this is the iudgemeâ— that Romish harlot which hath her dâ—ling in that great citie which ruleth â— the Kings of the earth who hath â— the kings of the earth drunken with cuppe of her fornication who is the â—rie mother of whoredome and of all the hominations of the earth which is druâ— with the bloud of the Saintes and with bloud of the martyrs of Christ who with tenne kings doeth fight against the Laâ— But the Lambe shall ouercome them â— they that be on his side the chosen â— faithful for he is the king of kings and Lord of lords To him be all honour and glorie for euer â— An answeare vnto the â–ª Papist which made this Offer or Challenge Papist CHrist did commit at his departing hence the testimonie of that trueth whiche he 〈◊〉 for the câ—â—uersion of all nations to the beliefe in him â—â—trâ—â— church of God which then stoode â—â—pally and almost onely in the persoâ—â— of â— Apostles and of a fewe moe that by their â—ching and others afterwarde of their â—ng the Christian religion might be planâ—â— all nations coastes and corners of the â—â— Wherefore I aske the Protestant â—t Church that was which conuerted all â—sâ— countries that nowe be Christen to the â—th of Christe and let him shewe me that â—er his Churche conuerted anie people or â—nde in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentiâ—â— or Iudaisme to the true religion of Christ or that this his faith was taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie or anie other Churche but the knowne Catholike Church to haue done this And I recant Answeare TRue it is that Christ did commit the preaching of the Gospell vnto the Apostles and vnto a few moe and gaue them this commaundemeÌ„t That they should go vnto all the world and preach the same Gospel vnto al nations who very painfully executed their office conuerted manie of sundrie countries to the truth Neuerthelesse suche was the rage of the wicked Emperoures Tyrantes of that time that the doctrine of the Gospel was not vniuersally receiued nor generally taught as it appeareth at large by the historie of the Acts of the Apostles as by the assembling of the Apostles in corners by their preaching in the night season in priuat houses Yet we confes that the voice of the Apostles was sounded abroad to al the world so that as Tertullian saith the Parthians the Medians the Elamites the people of Mesopotamia of Armenia c and many other nations and prouinces known vnknowen haue receiued the Gospel of Christ Saint Paule tooke comfort and reioyced in his imprisoment for that there were some euen in Neros court that beganne to geue eare to the Gospell Of the same matter writeth Eusebius that the court of Valerian the Emperour was now become the church of god so he saieth because that some of his familie beleued the truth albeit the Emperour himself was a tyrant Euen in that sense it might haue bene truelie saide that the churche of God was in king Achab his house when wicked Iezabel his wife did most of all persecute Goddes children and when Elias complained that he onelie was left aliue seeing that Obadiah gouernour of Achabs house feared God and fed an hundred Prophetes with the meate whiche came from Iezabels table But for breâ—ities sake I will answeare to youre queâ—ion which seemeth to consist on these two â—ointes First What Church it was which â—onuerted all countries that nowe be Chriâ—ten to the faith of Christe Secondarilie whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie Whosoeuer shall diligently peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or the bookes of the auncient Fathers of the churche they shall easily perceaue with what difficultie Christianitie was embraced sith that the name of Christ was so odious to the Emperour of Rome whose Empire was exceeding large thaâ— whosoeuer professed himselfe to be a Christian was tormented moste cruelly vnto death So that it cannot bee proued that manie nations or countries were wholly christened or receiued the gospel of Christ but in secrete manner vntill the time of Constantine the great which was three hundred yeares after Christ or thereabout For before that time whosoeuer sincerelie preached the Gospell hee was forthwith accused of sedicion of preaching heresie and of new strange doctrine They were charged commonly by the Heathen to bee adulterers against kinde Manquellers Killers of children Churchrobbers most wicked most hurtful the enimies of mankinde guiltie of all kinde of wickednesse Enimies against the Goddes against the Emperoures against the lawes against good order against nature it selfe whatsoeuer mischiefe happened the Ethnikes 〈◊〉 impute it alwayes to the Christians The citie of Athens which had beene the â—â—â—taine of all knowledge was become the sinke of most horrible idolatrie Where Pâ—ule preaching Christ the Philosophers â—â—â—e Epicures and Stoikes resisted him 〈◊〉 saide what will this babler say â–ª Others said he semeth to be a setter forth of strange Gods Others saide may we nâ—t know what this new doctrine wherâ—â— thou spekest is in such rage the Ethniks and Infidels continued against the Christians vntill God of his mercie raised vp that worthie Emperour Constantine who aduaunced mightely the Gospell suppresâ—â—â— the enimies thereof and gaue the truth free passage throughout his dominion and â—mpire In his time all nations were called from Idolatrie Gentilitie and Iudaisme so continued manie hundred yeares vntill the Diuel was let loose and superstiâ—on inuaded the churche so that albeit â—e name of Christianitie remained afterâ—arde vnder the Popes gouernement yet Christes religion was abolished and abanâ—oned It is faith in Iesus Christe and â—he profession of true religion whiche maketh a Christian and not the outward name and therefore suche as were falle away from Christ his Gospell vnto the inuentions of man or suche as were coÌ„uerte onelie in name not being instructed in trâ— doctrine were no more Christians then the shadowe of a man is a man orâ— picture the thing which it doth represenâ— so that it was Nomen sinere Christian iâ— name and not in deede By the Turke aâ— so both the name and profession of a Christian was altogether vanquished Thuâ— much for
God euery spirit which câ—fesseth not Iesus Christ to haue come â— the flesh is not of God wherfore the samâ— is not of God which denieth either the dâ—uine or humaine nature of Christ and tâ— true vniting of them both or derogateth any thing from the office of Christ beeingâ— king who onely hath all spirituall rule anâ— authoritie committed vnto him beeing Prophet who onely is appointed to delâ—uer vnto vs his fathers minde and willâ— and to teach vs all truth being a Priestâ— who hath offered a sweete smelling Sacrifice for vs vnto God the father euen his owne body vppon the Crosse once for all which onely Sacrifice is of force and value to purge and clense the sinnes of all those that beleeue But who be they which denie Christ in person or in office â–ª euen that Church that woulde haue Christ as hee is â—n to be in any other shape fourme then that which he receiued of the virgin Ma 〈◊〉 in sundry places at one time contrary the nature of a true body or affirmeth â—at mankinde lost through Adams fal and ansâ—ression could be saued by any other leaâ—es then onely by Christ whether it be â—y mans merits and works or by the parâ—ons and indulgences of the Pope or by â—nie other deuise of man Finally that Church which teacheth anie other mediaâ—â—â— betwixt God and man either of reâ—emption or intercession then onely Christ â—he same Church denieth Christ to haue â—ome in the flesh and therefore is not the 〈◊〉 Church of god The bare name or title of the Church is not sufficient but as gold is tried by the Touchstone so we must prooue the Church by the woorde of 〈◊〉 which is the Touchstone of all truth This Church by the preaching of the Gospell by the Lodestarre of Christ his holy â—ord hath from time to time brought the â—le of God from Gentilitie from Iuâ—me from the grosse Idolatrie whiche â— haue vsed in your Church and from â— darke dungeon of ignorance and blindnes into the cleare light shining brightnes of true knowledge Yea this same râ—ligion and doctrine which nowe we dâ— teach was deliuered first by Iesus Chriâ— vnto the Apostles then preached by them afterwardes yet not without bloodshed taught from time to time for the space â— sixe hundred yeares as the writings of aâ— the auncient Fathers doo witnesseâ— and so forwarde vntill by little and little your superstitious patched religion increased by fire and Fagot and other extremâ— tortures and cruelties These thinges being manifest I tendering your saluation â— which doo call your â—elfe a Catholik or Papiste doo most earnestly admonish you that according vnto your promise yoâ— would yeeld your self vnto the eternal God who knoweth all secrets and abhorreth all hipocrisie Let Christ Iesus by the scepter of his woorde rule your conscience and direct your hart in his trueth suffer the holy spirit of God to instill the sweete tast of Gods holy woord into your minde that you may hate your owne ignorance and blindenesse and study to attaine the true light and to bee guided by the motions of the same comfortable spirit of God which the Lord graunt to you for his Christs sake Papist Aske of him what Church it was which â— hath induced the Christian people thoâ—row out the whole worlde to giue most â— humble credit in all pointes to the holy â—â—â—kes of the Byble what Church hath had 〈◊〉 discerning and seuering them from oâ—â—â— writinges of all sortes what Churche â—â—th had the custody of them and most safeâ—â— hath preserued them for the necessarie vse of Gods people and from the corruption of aduersaries aswell Iewes as Heretiks of all sortes and let the Protestant declare vnto me that this congregation hath had from time to time or euer had any right herein â—â— anie other Church sauing the catholike Church and I recante Answeare I Do merueile with what face you can â—rrogate vnto your Church that you haue moued the people throughout the â—orlde to giue credit vnto the scriptures 〈◊〉 that your Church hath deterred the â—â—â—ople from reading them affirminge â—â—â—m to be harde and difficult daungeâ—â—â—us to the simple and vnlearned a nose 〈◊〉 waxe a shippmans hose a dead letter and either of enuie vnto the poore souâ— whom you call dogges and hogges aâ— sing this text giue not that which is hâ— vnto dogges or of hate vnto the scripturâ— you haue kept the key knowledge whâ— is the holy woorde of God vnder a vaâ— in an vnknowne tounge fearinge aâ— iudge lest the misty cloudes of your persticious deuises would vanish awâ— if the bright beames of Christ his Gâ—pell might shine in simple mens mindâ— What humble credite do you giue vnto Scriptures seing that one of the pillerâ— your Church saieth That the Scripturâ— are not autenticall or of credite bâ— onelie by the warrant and aucthoriâ— of your Churche of Rome an other your Doctoures hath these woordeâ— The Apostles saith he when they deliuâ—red the Creed neuer said I beleue tâ— holy Byble or the holy Gospel but the saide I beleeue the holy Churche Aâ— likewise in an other place he saith â— any man haue the exposition of thâ— Church of Rome touchinge any placâ— of the Scriptures although he neitheâ— knowe nor vnderstand whether or howâ— it agreeth with the wordes of the Scriptures yet he hath the very word of God. â—nd how doubtful vncertain al your inâ—â—â—pretations be Cusanus a Cardinall 〈◊〉 the Churche of Rome sheweth It 〈◊〉 no meruaile saith he though the practise of the Churche expounde the â—â—â—iptures at one time one way and at â—â—â—other time another way For the vnderâ—â—â—nding or the sence of the scriptures runâ—â—â—h with the practise and that sence so agreeinge with the practise is the quicâ—â—ninge spirite And therefore the scripâ—â—res followe the Churche but contraâ—iewise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures And whereas in verie â—eede the scriptures be the light that geâ—â—â—th sight to the blinde and rightly called 〈◊〉 candle whereby the theefe is taken the truth which doeth disclose all errours 〈◊〉 rule to square and frame mans lyfe 〈◊〉 power of God vnto saluation I muse â—â—â—uely howe you daâ—â— presume to keepe his hid treasure from Gods inheritance â—nd yet preteÌ„d that you do perswade them â—â—â—stantly to giue most humble credit thereâ—â—â—to And forsomuche as you do challeng â—â—â—e discerning seuering the Scriptures â—â—â—om other writinges of all sortes you haue in verie deed not onely corrupted the trâ— sense of the Bible but also abased the authoritie of the scriptures and haue madâ— equall or rather preferred your owne decrees and constitutions before the holâ— Bible the errours in your old translatioÌ„ oâ— the Bible which you falsly ascribe vntâ— S. Ierome be so manifest so grosse thaâ— euery childe may easily espy them as iâ— the third chapter of Genesis these wordeâ— are to be found Ipsa conteret caput tuuâ— She shall breake
thy heade meaning thâ— woman Which text the Louanistes woulâ— seeme to reforme do put in ipse referring it to Christ You may see into what miseries you woulde bring vs to haue vs to beleue that the Virgin Marie should brusâ— the Serpents head whereas the words are to be vnderstanded of the seede of the woman Likewise in the Epistle vnto the Corinthians your olde translation hath these wordes Omnes quideÌ„ resurgemus â–ª sed non omnes imutabimur Wee shall all rise againe but wee shall not all be changed Which words be vntruely translated for all shall not rise againe because that at Christes comming some shall be founde aliue yet neuerthelesse All must be chaunged and this corruptible flesh must put on corruptioÌ„ But you wil perhaps say that the fault is not in the translation but in the Printer Why then hath your Church suffered the same translation to haue beene printed so often and hath not corrected these faultes Nay why with your Tridentine generall councell precisely say Let no man be so bolde or presume by any manner of colour to refuse the old common translation of the Bible To conclude you persuade the world if you haue authoritie not onely to allowe what translation ye list but also as your owne Canonistes doe auouch that the Pope the heade of your Church can at 〈◊〉 pleasure dispense against the Lawe of God against the Lawe of nature against the Apostles against all the commaundements of the olde and newe Testament That hee is Christes Lieftetenaunt not onely ouer thinges in heauen ouer thinges in earth and ouer things â—â— hell but also ouer the angels both good and badde whereas the true Church of God hath not at any time made her selfe â—â—udge ouer the worde and lawe of God 〈◊〉 alwaies hath vsed subiection vnto the â—â—â—e grounding all her religion and faith â—â—on the same worde And this you must needes confesse vnlesse you will denie a knowen trueth that we whose religion you doe so vehemently withstande haue alwayes perswaded the people not to beleeue vs one iotte further then we bring the woorde of God for our warrant And whereas you further enquire what Church hath had the custodie of the Bible and hath most safely preserued it I must needes say that God of his singuler mercie towardes his Churche by his diuine prouidence hath alwayes preserued his woorde to the comforte of his children as he preserued Elias in the wildernesse Daniel in the Lions denne the three children in the fornace Howe I pray you hath the Byble bene preserued by your Churche sith the whole worlde can testifie howe you haue burned the olde and newe Testament whiche thing is yet freshe in mans memorieâ— Did not Cutbert Tunstall being then Bishop of London cause the newe Testament to be burned at Pawles crosse in London as your Churche learned of Iehoakim king of Iuda who threw the boke which the Prophete Ieremie by Goddes commaundement had indited conteining the wrath of God against Iuda into the fier But you will say the Testamentes were falselie and vntrulie translated and therefore were burned If that had beene the cause it had bene your partes rather to haue disclosed and quoated forth the erroures and to haue amended the faultes Doeth the mother cast away the milke wherewith the children shoulde be nourished for that sometimes motes doe fall into it but rather culleth forth the moates giueth the Milke to the children euen so you ought to haue done What faultes were I beseech you in that translation you neuer noted anie if there had bene as indeede there were none why haue not you set forth a better what doctour of your Churche or fauorer of your Romishe Religion hath written in whose workes can not be found some errour yet we burned them not but are content to giue them the readinge and do reuerence them so farre as they agree with Gods truthe Further if â—n Angell should speake or write we ought not to beleue him Iudge you nowe laying away all affection whether your Church â—â— ours doe better esteme of the Bible or â—â— the better preserue the same Papist SHew me why our common knowen church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion contained in the same Shewe me why she kepte not as trulie and as faithfully the true sense of Gods woorde as she preserued the worde it selfe Shewe me why we shoulde beleeue the Papistes as ye tearme them for the worde it selfe and yet we shoulde beleeue you Protestantes for the meaning of the worde rather than them Shewe me why you beleeued our Churche telling you this to be Gods booke and will not credite her aduouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke and last of all shewe me why you beleeued the elder knowen Churche affirming this to be the word and doe not beleeue her affirming Luther to be an Heretike Shewe me good reason or Scripture for these poyntes and I recant Answeare YF you meane by your common knowen Churche the Churche of Rome as you will easily assent therevnto then your Church is more common than true For triall whereof it is plaine and that by Saint Barnarde that the pastoures of your Churche of Rome keepe not the spouse of God whiche is his Churche but they destroy her They keepe not the flock but they kill and deuoure And one whiche writeth of your Church in that great and solemne assemblie at Constance saieth They did quenche the spirite they did dispise the voice of the prophetes they persecuted Christ in his members and it was altogether a persecuting churche Barnard in an other place likewise crieth out O miserable Rome which in the time of our Elders hast brought foorth the lightes of worthie Fathers but in our dayes hast brought forth the monstruous darkenes shamefull and slanderous to the time to come An other calleth Rome a schoole of errour a temple of heresie And your old friend Thomas Becket whome you haue canonized for a Saint saith Our holy mother of Rome is become an harlot and hath prostituted her self that is hath set her selfe open to euerie man for reward And what neede we goe farre one of your owne nest in the late councell of Trent sheweth his iudgement of your Churche of Rome They haue brought to passe saieth he that godlinesse is turned into hypocrisie and that the sauoure of life is turned into the sauour of death Woulde to GOD they were not gone with one generall consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicure saying with wicked heartes and filthie mouthes there is no god Truth seketh not to be shrouded in corners I haue noted before a fewe places amongst many in which you haue corrupted the text of the Byble You seeme to vrge this matter instantly that your Church hath kept and
auouched truely and faithfully the true sense of the Scripture and doo merueile verie much why wee will not giue credit vnto you I will giue you a taste of a fewe places which your Church hath fouly wrythed Where the Apostles yet so rude that they thought with outward weapons to withstand the enemies doo offer vnto Christ two swoordes Pope Boniface doth expound these words saying behold two swords that is to say the Pope hath the power both of the spiritual sword of the teÌ„poral So they apply corruptly the psalmist thou hast made al things subiect vnto him that is to say to the Pope the catel of the field that is to say men liuing in the earth the fishes of the sea that is to say soules in purgatory the birdes of heaueÌ„ that is to say the soules of the blessed in heaueÌ„ Pope Alexander treading most cruelly vppon the Emperour Frederiks neck abuseth this part of the Psalme Thou shalt walke vppon the Aspe and Basilisk the young Lyon and the Dragon shalt thou treade vnder thy feete What need many testimonies seeing that your church hath wrested the whole booke of the Psames which concerne God the father and his sonne Christ to magnifie the Virgin Mary withall that whereas shee acknowledgeth Christ to be her Sauiour and herselfe to be the handmaide of the Lorde you go about to make her a Goddesse and say that she is fidelissima Dei socia a felow mate with God. As also another of your Cardinals calleth her DominaÌ„ DeaÌ„ nostraÌ„ our Lady and Goddesse Where you say that your Church gaue vs knowledge â—f the holy Byble it is most vntrue for that you hidd the same in an vnknowne tongue and woulde not suffer the vnlearned to haue the vse thereof And albeit you very rashely impute heresie vnto Luther truely all the heresies which euer he maintained he sucked forth out of the nurcerie of your Church and treasury of your Pope Iâ— you knowe anie other in his writings sauing that he defended with you the real presence of Christs body in the Sacrament I would haue you to name it But it is youâ— accustomed wont to call vs heretikes although you be not able to prooue that wâ— defend any one heresie Neuerthelesse wâ— must be content to beare your woordes foâ— so the olde Prophets were charged with â—â—dition and heresie and so Tertullus charged Paule the Apostle beginning his oration with flatterie and ending the samâ— with a manifest vntruth We haue saitâ— he found this man a pestilent fellowe â— mouer of sedition among all the Iewes throughout the worlde and a chiefe maintainer of the sect or heresie of the Nazarets for so the wicked tearmed the true Christian religion as you doe and to answere you fully we say with the Apostle That after the way which you cal heresie so woorship we the liuing God and his sonne Christ beleeuing all thinges which be written in the Lawe the Prophets and the Gospell Papist AGaine what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointment discipline vpon offenders in all degrees and for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and canons ecclesiasticall with excommunication degradation suspension and suche like Proue me this geare to haue proceeded from Protestantes or from anie other Churche then from the Catholike and Irecant Answeare Concerning discipline First you alledge excoÌ„munication the true vse whereof you neuer had in your Church of Rome sichens it firste declined from the auncient Church of Rome Now as a bloudie mother you send out the thunderboltes of excoÌ„munication against all those which reiect your superstitious traditions euen like your grandfathers the Pharisies who in the time of our sauiour Christ did excoÌ„municate all those which did truely conâ—â—â—se Christ and yet thought they pleased â—â—d highly Iohn truely did prophesie of 〈◊〉 Church that she should excoÌ„muniâ—â—â—e and kill all suche as woulde not worship the image of the beast that is â—â—â—eiue the ordinaunces and decrees of the sea of Rome Excommunication wâ— not vsed in the primitiue Church but â— graue offences as appeareth by the Apâ—stle Paule who did excommunicate one â— incest and Himeneus and Alexander â— making shipwracke of the faith of Chriâ— They did not in the primitiue Church â— communicate without the consent of tâ— clergie people which discipline decaâ—ing in Saint Ambrose his time at thâ— least in the church where he was he lamâ—teth in these wordes The olde congregation saith he and the Church following had Seniors without whose counsell nothing was done but I knowe noâ— by what negligence it did grow out oâ— vse vnlesse it were either by the sloth fulnes or rather the pride of the pastors whilest they onely would seeme to haue the preheminence Saint Cyprian disputing this matter at large speaketh after this maner Euer since I was Bishop I determined to doe nothing without theâ— councell of the cleargie and consent of the people But you doe vse this kinde of discipline or rather abuse it priuatly in euery light monie matter but chiefâ—ie against suche as will not embrace your Romishe traditions Iohannes Scotus alias Duns one of your Capitaines who liued about the yeere of our Lorde 1336. complaineth of the abuse of your excommunication and of the Papes keyes sayinâ—â— That excommunication before his time was not vsed but vppon greate and iuste causes and therefore feared but nowe saith he it is broched and published for euerie trifle and therefore groweth in contempt Furthermore you doe neither excommunicate degrade or suspende except it be a verie great chaunce for anie other cause then is aforesaide You haue rules to dispense with your gelding Priestes Si non caste tameÌ„ caute If that thou canst not liue chaste yet play the whoremonger cunningly You degrade some and when you haue taken your Popish robes from them you turne their bodies to ashes by cruell fier But to knitte vp all in fewe wordes our Sauiour Christe did not promise to â—â—ue behinde him a Church which should â—â—ecute suche ecclesiasticall discipline as â—â—u haue prescribed or shoulde alwayes â—â—twardly in great pompe appeare to the â—ewe of the whole world But he calleth â—â—s Churche a little flocke shewing them before hand that in the world They shouâ— weepe and lament and haue tribulatâ—on that the world shoulde reioyce bâ— they shoulde be sadde and that as all thâ— wicked persecuted him the Lord so shouâ— they persecute them his seruauntes dâ— proue this and I recant Papist AND because Christ as Saint Pauâ— saith hath established in his Chuâ—che some Apostles some Preachers some teachers and Doctoures eueâ— till his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is ablâ— to shew and proue the continuance and vsâ— of those functions euer since Christ his time by plaine accompt of orderly succession and is able to name by the hystories of all ages the notable persons of al the
aduocate with the Father â—esus Christ the righteous and he is the propiciation for our sinnes and not for â—urs onely but for the sinnes of the whole world By the which words we â— taught that Christ our sauiour is not onâ— the mediatour of our redemption but also â— our intercession doth plead our cause wâ— god Why would you haue vs to take Chrâ— his office froÌ„ him as you do by inuocatiâ— praying to saints in making theÌ„ meanâ— for vs seeing that the Saintes departâ— know not our estate vnderstande not oâ— infirmities as Esaie the prophet doth wâ—nesse saying Though Abraham be ignorant of vs Israel know vs not yet thoâ— O Lord art our Father our redemeâ— thy name is for euer Wherevppoâ— S. Augustine giueth this note Thoâ— seest here saith he that neither Abrahâ— nor Israel knewe after their death whâ— the estate was of their posteritie And iâ— the same chapter he saith I am certainely perswaded that the dead knowâ— no more what we do here in earth theâ— we being in earth knowe what they doâ— in heauen Touching seruice in an vnknowne speech howe can it stande with the Apostles doctrine If the Trumpet saith Saint Paule geue an vncertaine sounde who shall prepare himselfe to battaile Also in the same Chapter Let â— thinges bee done in the congregatiâ— to edifying howe are the people â—lified whiche vnderstande not what is â—oken But to make the matter more â—aine the Apostle saith further I had raâ—er in the Church to speake fiue words â—th my vnderstanding that I mighte â—so instruct others then ten thousande â—ordes in a straunge tongue You aske â—so who preached against the Churche â— Rome for the space of a M. yeares â—uly euen from time to time God had his â—hurche which reproued your grosse idoâ—tries And for a taste I will name you a â—we The Monkes â–ª of Chester which â—ere not idle bellied Monkes but payneâ—ll Preachers and lyued not vppon the â—eate of other mens browes but by their â—ne handy labour whom your Monkish â—ugustine sent into Englande by Pope â—regorie did finde meanes to murder â—ost cruelly by incensing the king to make â—arre against them Sabellicus saith in the â—are of our Lord 1111. the Bishop of Fluâ—ce beganne to teache preach Antiâ—rist then to be born to be manifest â—rnulphus a godly Precher inueying aâ—ainst the abominatioÌ„s of your Church was priuily hanged in Rome by youâ— cleargie men This is no tale but recoâ—ded by your owne histories A councâ— was holden in king Steuens time vndâ— Theobaldus Archebyshoppe of Caunteâ— burie charging the Byshoppes that thâ— people shoulde learne the Lordes prayeâ— and the Creede in Englishe Gherarduâ— and Dulcinus both being preachers affiâ—med the Pope to be Antichrist and Româ— to be Babylon In the same yeare king Henrie the seconde made Lawes at Claredowne in Normandie abolishing thâ— Popes authoritie taking away appellations and Peter pence In the citie of Tolouse in the yeare of our Lorde 1178. a great number both men and women professoures of the true religion were by the Popes commissioners coÌ„demned to death There were certaine christen people called Valdenses or Leonistes true professoures of the Gospell as appeareth by the articles of their religion which liued in the yeare of our Lorde 1170. And of these godlie Christians speaketh one of your owne writers who saith thus The secte of these Leonistes hath a great shewe of pietie or godlinesse because they liued iustly and vprightly before men â—nd doe beleeue all thinges very well â—hich concerne God and all the artiâ—es which be contained in the Creede â—nelie they doe speake ill of and doe â—ate the Churche of Rome I will not â—eake of king Iohn who detesting your Romishe doctrine was poysoned by a â—ayterous Moonke at Swinested Abbey â—n Lincolneshier I let passe Iohn Wickâ—iffe person of Literworth who reade the â—iuinitie lecture in Oxenforde a zealous â—rofessour of all the pointes of doctrine which we now mainteine Whose bones your cleargie tooke vp manie yeares after his death and burned them I coulde name Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prage Bohemians whome the Emperour and your Pope sent for vnto the councell holden at Constance vnder their safe Conductes to come and goe in safetie yea though they prooued verie notablie their faith which word by worde agreeth with the true religion now set foorth Neuerthelesse contrary to promise their owne hands seales most violently they coÌ„demned theÌ„ for heretikes burned them And to salue this sore bleare the worldes eies they afterwarde decreed that Fides cum haereticis non esset seruanda that is That faith ought not to be kept with heretikes Gods name be thanked it may sufficiently be proued that in all ages there were some which defended the truth against your tyrannie But to come to the Pope this word Papa is a generall name vnto all learned men and therefore doth not pertaine onely to the sea of Rome Saint Augustine Saint Hierome writing one to another calleth each other Papa though one of them was conuersant in Iewrie the other at Hippo in Aphrick But to the matter You woulde knowe what wee mislike in the Popes gouernment and what Pope declined first from his Forefathers faith and steppes The Popes or Bishopes of Rome for the space of three hundred yeares after Christ did for the most parte suffer martyrdome vnder the wicked Emperours for the testitimonie of Christ and the doctrine in these daies published At which time they did not rule but were ruled After that they liued other three hundred yeares and more in a calme time and in greate quietnesse by Gods prouidence vnder Constantine the greate and the godâ— Emperours his successors Which time â—eeing expired and accomplished they â—eeing pricked forwardes through pride â—nd ambition did beginne to claime supeâ—ioritie ouer their fellowe Bishoppes â—nd also to decline by little and little from â—he perfecte rule of God his holy woorde â—nd veritie And in steede thereof magnified and extolled them selues and â—heir own inuentions traditions not stryâ—ing and contending who should excell or â—oe before one an other in pure and â—incere doctrine and holinesse of life But â—ather who coulde woorke moste mischiefe and iniurie one towardes an other of them seeking one to depriue an other of theire Bishopprikes and often times of lyfe in taking one an other out of their graues and also cutting of one an others â—ingers and poisoning one another and â—n making Lawes decrees and ordinanâ—es one against an other there beeing sometymes two or three Popes at one time in doctrine vnsound in life wicked and in this hurley burly the Churche of Rome continued a verie long time both before and after Hildebrande Neuerthelesse this Hildebrande beyng yet Cardinall as one of your owne Cardinals reporteth did beate Pope Alexander with his fist and kept him in
the which â—uilding Christe is the chiefe corner stone â—hough you haue taught the people of God â—therwise affirming the Pope to be head â—f Gods Churche and to be of equiualent â—ucthoritie with Christ One of your scholeâ—octors saith That Christe and the Pope â—ake one consistorie and sinne onely â—xcepted the Pope can doe whatsoeuer God himselfe can doe And euen as you â—eale with Christe for the preheminence â—nd rule so you will appointe him a body â—r no bodie or alter or chaunge his bodie â—s you liste You cannot limit GOD â—is Church for his Church is in manie or â—ewe as his heauenlie wisedome appoyneth And therfore Christ saith That whenâ—oeuer two or three are gathered togeaâ—her in my name I am in the middest of â—hem And as one doth say as is before â—lledged Although there were but two â—en remayning in the worlde yet in â—hem two the Churche of God which â—s the vnitie of the faithfull shoulde bee saued Therefore though man be ignorant whome God hath elected vnto saluation and who be of Christ his bodie yet God who vnderstandeth all secretes doeth knowe who are his And euerie member of Christ hath the spirite of God to assure his conscience that he is the childe of god God graunt you that inwarde testimonie and the comfort of the same spirit grounded vpon the Gospell which they doe feele in themselues Then will you neuer be so carefull for these outwarde shewes Papist 15 SHew me that the church which ought to be a Christian mans stay in troubles â–ª and tempests of doctrine might become so hidden or so close that no man could finde her or so hartlesse that she coulde succour no man nor instruct anie man in hâ— doubte of conscience or distresse in faith Proue me that there may be such a decay â— Goddes spirit truth and churche And I recant Answeare 15 IT seemeth that you are harping alwaieâ— vppon one string but if you woulde dilâ—gently waie with your selfe the frailtie man who is dailie slipping away from dâ—tifull obedience towardes God and consider what bridles and bittes God hath ordained to pull him backe from the libertie of sinne to preserue him from daungers You shal finde other staies to grounde maÌ„s faith and settle his coÌ„science then anie such outwarde shewe of a visible Church as you imagin The ground worke and foundation of faith and the staie and buttresse of mans conscience are the holie scriptures which Dauid the blessed Prophet calleth the Mountaines vnto which the faithful shoulde lift vp their eyes which are the onely comforte to theÌ„ in their troubles Christ exhorteth vs To searche the scriptures for they do beare witnes of him who is our peace our iustification our sanctification our redemptioÌ„ The Apostle assureth vs That the scriptures are the power of god vnto saluatioÌ„ to as many as beleeue whether they be Iewes or Gentils What need we any further proofe to teach vs that faith is staied vpoÌ„ the scriptures then that which is spoken by Paule the Apostle â–ª Faith saith he commeth of hearing and hearing by the worde of God. Howe shall we knowe God â–ª Howe shall we knowe Christ How shal we know Gods spirit howe shall wee discerne true faith from a fonde opinion but onely by the scriptures Faith as Saint Augustine affirmeth doth stagger if the aucthority of gods scriptures do faile True faith true knowledge and a right conscience are grounded vpon the worde of god Constantine that worthie Emperour spake openly in the Nicene Councel to the like effecte The writinges saith he of the Euangelistes and Apostles and the oracles of the auncient Prophets do instruct vs plainely what we ought to vnderstande and beleue of Gods will and pleasure and therfore all contention set aparte let vs seeke the solution of those thinges which bee propounded out of the scriptures of God which by the testimonie of the holy Ghost be able to instruct vnto all good workes The doctrine of the scriptures teacheth especiallie these foure principles Knowledge Faith Godlines Iustice true brauÌ„ches of a christian mans life It is the parte of euerie Christian to learne to knowe God the Creatour and maker of all thinges to knowe Christ the the redemer of mankinde to knowe the holie Ghost the spirit of sanctificatioÌ„ what benefits he hath ond doth receiue by these â—hree persons vnited in one Godhead which â—noweledge the wise man calleth Perfect righteousnes and the roote of immoralitie Also our Sauiour Christ saith That â—his is eternall life that they know thee â—he onely true GOD and Iesus Christ whom thou hast sent Man created according to gods Image may not be like the Horse Mule in whom there is no vnderstanding or to bee such as God by the Prophet complaineth vpon That the oxe knoweth his owner the Asse his maâ—ters cribb But Israel hath not knowne â—ny people hath no vnderstanding It beâ—oueth him to beleue in these three persons and all thinges which he knoweth out of gods booke It is his part and duty moreouer to practise pietie and godlinesse towâ—rdes God iustice and vprigh dealing towardes man But I knowe what you â—hoote at Verely to haue vs to beleue and â—o stay our selues vpon the aucthoritie of your Church of Rome and the vnwritten â—erities of the same Church Because the true Church of God hath not alwaies appeared to the view of the whole worlde in outwarde pompe or shewe Therefore your indeuour to perswade yet I trust in vaine that man doubtfull in conscience and wauering in faith coulde receiue no comfort by that close inuisible and hartles Church as you call it I haue proued before that God hath raised vp in all ages since the beginninge of the worlde such as haue giuen a testimonie of their zeale and true religion vnto the worlde You must not limit and appointe God his Church or vpon whom hee shall power out his graces or in what measure he shall bestow his spirite God by the ministerie of his woorde doeth cure and heale suche as be broken in heart geueth medicine to heale their sickenesse maketh strong the weake faith and doth comforte the feeble minde of man by his holie spirite Gods spirite cannot decay or be of lesse power or Gods churche and spouse lesse honourable albeit there were but one simple man in the vniuersall worlde to mans iudgement which doeth imbrace the trueth of god Though Abell was but one thoughe Elias in his time was but one Noah and his housholde but a small number Christe our Sauiour and his simple Fishermen his Apostles men of no reputation a very few in respect of all the world besides had God therefore â—o Churche in these times Notwithstanding the law was corrupted before Christ the true worshipp of God cleane extinguised all the people geuen for the most part â—o idolatrie yea and no prophet to reproue the people from Malachie his time vntill
of God and your vnitie to agree â—ith Christs veritie and Gospell But is â—t this rather truely verified of your sucâ—ssion which was vttered by Pope Aâ—riaÌ„ Succedimus non Petro in pasceÌ„do â—d Romulo in parricidio We succeade â—aith hee not Peter in feeding but Roâ—ulus in murdering Succession of place â—uaileth not one strawe if you cannot in â—ke maner proue the succession of Christ â—s true doctrine The idolatrous priestes â— al ages might verie wel haue boasted of â—ccession of place And so might the Phaâ—sees which bragged somuch of their temâ—le and of their succession euen from Moâ—es and yet they were fouly fallen awaye â—roÌ„ the sincere pure Law of God worâ—hipped god in vain teaching the precepts â—nd doctrine of men You claime your sucâ—ession from Peter the blessed Apostle of Christ for that as you saie he was Bishope of Rome If nowe you can proue that your religioÌ„ is the same that Peter taught written by the spirit of truth for the comfort of the true Church of God conteined in the newe testament of Christ Then not onely I but all which defende the same truth with me will willingly ioyne handes with you But and if you can not proue your doctrine by gods worde you must theÌ„ pardoÌ„ vs in that we wil not take your part against Christ I woulde to God that you woulde vnfainedlie sect forthe to the vse of gods people that religion which the Apostle Paule I will not say Peter for that there is no warraÌ„t in the scriptures for his beinge at anie time in Rome planted amongst the Romanes Which faith true religion the Apostle commendeth in theÌ„ â–ª Then surely we woulde not onely goe but ruÌ„ne with you to the building of gods temple and woulde lay to our handes and our harts To this effect spaketh S. Ciprian that alwaies wee builde our faith succession and whole religion vpon a sure stedfast foundation If saith he The pipes of the cundit which before ran with aboundaunce happen to faile doe wee not serche to the heade c â–ª The priests of God â–ª â—â—â—ing gods commaundements must doe the same that if the truthe haue fainted or failed in any point we turne to the very originall of our Lord and to the traditions of the Gospell and of the Apostles that from thence the reason of our actions or doings may arise from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus wee may say of your vnitie in faith your vniformiâ—ie in ceremonies your holy functions If you can proue confirme these thinges by manifest places of the holy scriptures for my parte I will recant â—nd be of your religion But though you â—r an Angel would perswade me to the coÌ„trarie without the testimonie of Gods worde God assisting me with his spirit I will not beleue you I marueile why you will seeme to mainteine these matters seâ—ng it is most repugnanc to the truth The â—eade Capitaines of your religion and Doctours of your Church do not agree in â—he vnitie of your religion but do disâ—ent in the principle pointes thereof Some â—aye That Christes naturall body euen â—he same which was borne of the virâ—in Marie is receiued in the Sacrament â—ome denye saying that so soone as the forme of the bread is grated with the teethe straight way the body of Christ is caught vp into Heauen One sayth That a mouse may eate the body of Christ an other sayth That a mouse can not eate it and to dissolue these questions the cheefe piller of your church euen Petrus Lombardus saith What the mouse doth take or what she eateth God knoweth I can not tell And noting further the disagrement of your church men he saith Some men iudge thus some say thus some haue written thus some graunt thus some others haue taught thus that the verie substance of the bread wine remaine still And if a question saith he were moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether in forme or in substaunce or in some other manner I am not able to discusse An other saith How the body of Christ is there whether it bee by chaunging of something into it or Christes body beginne to bee there together with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the bread remaining still without chaunging it is not founde exprest in the canon of the Bible Innocentius the thirde Pope of that name sayth that there were some which sayde that as after consecration there remayned the very accidentes or formes of â—reade so likewise the verie substance of the same breade remaineth still Marke howe the pleasâ—â—nt and swete â—armonie and concordaunce of your â—hurch of Rome doeth agree and hange â—ogether as coÌ„cerning these weightie cauâ—s I thinke you iudge this transubstanâ—ation a matter of faith You may see â—en howe you agree or rather disagree â— the vnitie of faith Concerning your â—iformitie in your so manie superstitious â—uiteles and tedious Ceremonies and â—aditions of your owne inuentions it â—ay easily be veiwed and seene by the maâ—fold sectes of your religious stoare and â—ble of your heremites your Ankers â—d Ancresses your recluses your holy â—onkes of Benettes order of Cluniacenâ—s order of Lazarits order of Saint â—ieronimus order of Saint Gregories â—der the order of the shadowed valley of â—saphattes order of the Humiliats orâ—r of the Celestines order of Gilberâ—nes order of Iustinians order of the Charter house Monks of the Templaries order of the Iacobites order the Monks of Mount Oliuete Maries bretheren the order of the Flagellatours the Starred Monkes some white some black some graie some maled so called for thaâ— they did weare male cotes next their skin the order of Iesuites and a greate company of orders besides these Of Friers somâ— were called crosse bearers some Carmelitâ— or white Friers some Minorities or greâ— Friers some obseruant Friers some Mendicant or begging Friers some Dominicke some Franciscans so called of Sainâ— Frances whose coule as Thomas Aquine faith had power to remoue sinne I omitte your Channons your Virgiâ— Nunnes of all sortes but such as had nâ— oyle in their Lampes your Nominals your reals I might make a long discourse here in describinge the varietie of this religions crue and companie not only in ceremoniall matters but also in matters of faith and doctrine But I trust all the world doth knowe howe they haue bene bewitched with such kind of sorceries and therefore I should but wast labour and lose time You aske further Whether wee bee bounde to obey your Church of Rome and none other in all controuesies and doubtes raised by the difficultie of the Scriptures or by the vaine contention of heresies Hereby you seeme to chalenge two thinges not onely a prerogatiue or preheminence aboue all other churches but also the interpretation of the scriptures solely and wholy to appertaine vnto you But I pray you tell me from whence you had this
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That