and rule it must be meant of Authentical and Original Writings or of infallible Translations of them into several Languages c. say you In like manner I say if the Decrees of General Councils are infallible it must be understood of the Original and authentick writings wherein those Decrees are contained or of infallible Translations of them into several Languages since they were not given out in a Language that the Common people understand Now none will swear to use your own words pag. 20. that these are the Originals of the Decrees of those Councils some of them being more then a thousand years old Neither will any swear that the Translations of these Decrees agree with their Originals Ergo The Decrees and Determinations of Councils cannot be an unquestionable and infallible Guide to true faith Thus you make people believe that if they come to your Church they shall have every thing certain but I do demand if any should follow your advice how they shall be thus assured since your Church hath been so palpably negligent as to suffer whole Books to be lost and to suffer the Originals of those that remain to be corrupted and also to suffer infinite variety of reading to come into them by which you say It cannot be discerned infallibly which is the true reading and which is the false And whereas you say That we are so far from having St. Mathews Original that we know not what Language it was writ in or whether he who transtated it into Greek was an honest man or not I answer If your Church were as you pretend the sole Keeper of the Scriptures they are worthy to die as David said of Abner because they kept their Master no better Are they the Church to which no unfaithfulness can have access when they have lost the Original of St. Mathews Gospel These are worse then the unprofitable Servant for in the day of accompt though he did not improve his Talent yet he did not lose it but could say to his Master take that which is thine own But you that have been entrusted with the heavenly treasure of sacred Writings it seems cannot acquit your selves at this rate for you have lost the Original and cannot tell whether that Translation that you have was done by an honest Man or a Knave But further If this be true what becomes of that Text which you cite as the first-born of your strength Mat. 16.18 upon which you found your Churches infallibility for if one ask you how you prove the Church infallible you say by that Text Upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it But how do you prove it from this Text if as you say the Original is lost and you cannot tell whether he that translated it into the Greek was an honest man or no You come now pag. 22. to a sixth Reason which is but the same in effect with the former viz. That whatsoever is a sufficient rule must be plain and clear in all necessary points the Scriptures you say are not plain and clear in all necessary points therefore c. This is the sum of your Argument and for this you give divers instances of things necessary to salvation that are not set down in Scripture The first is in pag. 22.23 That it is not set down in Scripture what a Sacrament is and how many there be or whether there be any or no To this I answer That you strive about words for it is not necessary to salvation to believe that those institutions should be called Sacraments which are usually so called and if it were then it would be necessary that we should know what and how many Institutions should be so denominated but it sufficeth that those Institutions which we call Sacraments are plainly set down in Scripture together with the persons who should observe them and the manner how they should be observed You come to a second thing necessary to be believed that is not in Scripture namely That all the Books of the Holy Scriptures be the word of God This say is not absolutely necessary to salvation for it may be possible for one to believe all the matter of the Bible to be the Truth of God and thereupon be saved who may yet doubt whether every one of the Pen-men did write by inspiration And again When it is said and believed that all the material Objects of Faith and those divine Verities which Christ revealed to his Apostles and they to the Churches are laid down in Scripture It is manifest that the Scriptures themselves are excepted they being not received as the material objects of our faith but as the means of conveying them unto us and if a man did believe the Doctrine of salvation contained in the Scripture it should not hinder his salvation though he knew not whether there was any Scripture or no Again Many of those whom you Canonize did not allow of some part of the Scriptures and many whole Churches differed about the Authority of some Books which Churches must all be damned if the believing those Books had been necessary to salvation You proceed and say in the third place That it is necessary to salvation to believe the Scriptures to be the Word of God but this you say is not plainly set down in Scripture I answer as before This belief cannot be necessary where the Scriptures are not proposed for God doth not require men to believe upon pain of Damnation when he hath not given means in order therunto But 2. Whoever shall consult the excellent precepts the glorious promises together with that great Spirit of Holiness and Self-denial that is contained in the Scriptures must needs say that they have the image and superscription of heaven upon them and from thence be as certainly perswaded that God was the Author of them as if it had been written with the beam of the Sun that so many Books are the Word of God nay and more certain because That one sentence might sooner have been expunged or defaced out of the Scriptures then that Spirit of Light and Truth which breaths in the faces and consciences of men from all the quarters of them Your other instances that follow are such as we have either taken notice of already or else they are such that are not necessary to salvation and therefore are impertinently alledged to weaken the guidance and conduct of the Scripture in order to that blessed end But since you are so able to lay stumbling blocks in the way of the Scriptures that thereby men might stumble and fall let me see if you are as able to remove some stumbling blocks that lieth in the way to your infallible Church First Is not the Sacrament of Pennance as your Church teacheth necessary to salvation But secondly How can you be infallible that this Sacrament is administred by a true Priest for if it were not done by a true Priest then
out of the great St. Austine against Manicheus whose Words are these If thou shalt find any one who doth not as yet believe the Gospel what wilt thou do when he shall say unto thee I do not believe But neither had I believed the Gospel unless I had been thereunto moved by the Authority of the Catholick Church Those therefore to whom I submitted when they required me to believe the Gospel why should I not yield Obedience to them when they perswade me not to believe Manicheus Thus speaks Austine and more to the same purpose lo which I Answer That this Text out of Austine may be applyed to any Church as well as to yours And if the Church of England shall perswade any one that is a Jew to turn and become a Christian may he not say he did well to believe them when they perswaded him to believe the Gospel Why therefore should he not believe them when they perswade him not to turn Roman Catholick But to this Text I shall subjoyne Two Texts more out of the same Authour against the Donatists The Question saith he between Us and the Donatists is where is the Church This is the Question between the Protestants and the Romanists He Answers Let not these Speeches be heard among you This I say and this thou sayest but let us hear what the Lord sayes There are certain Books of God unto whose Authority we both consent There let us try our Cause There let us seek the Church And again in the Scriptures have we learned Christ In the Scriptures have we learned the Church Ep. 166. ad Donatift Whosoever shall compare these Texts out of Austine may easily satisfie himself What his Judgment was in the Question between You and Us viz. whether we should learn Christ and the Scriptures from the Church or whether we should learn Christ and the Church from the Scriptures To this purpose Epiphanius speaking of a Heritick Saith This Man is found differing from the HOLY SCRIPTURES as will appear to all Men that Read attentively If he then dissent from them he is altogether an Alien to the Holy Catholick Church Epiphanius Tom. 1. lib. 2. haer 48. It seems in his time all men were permitted to read the Scriptures attentively to inform iheir minds in the Truth whatever is now a dayes pretended to the contrary I proceed now to the Epistle it self In the beginning whereof Page 1. You give an account of the Reasons of its Publication which are To Answer Expectation to prevent the World from censuring and to manifest your charity to your late dear Brethren from whom you have received returns of Assection I did expect that among those Motives that prevailed with you to publish the grounds of your change I should have found you saying that the Glory of God had been the chief moving Cause But I finde not a word of that and therefore however you may have Answered the Expectations of others I am sure you have not answered mine But further you say you published your Epistle To prevent the World from censuring Sir whatever you promised your selfe in the beginning of your Book your heart failed for fear of obtaining when you had finished it And therefore you are forced to Ride Post after your Reader and pray him That he would not up-braid you As if you had some private ends of your own in your present change See the Post-Script in Page 40. Which plainly shews that you had some mis-givings of heart that all you had spoken throughout your Book would not Answer your end Viz. Keep the World from censuring And as for that other end which you pretend in the publishing of your Book Namely Charity to your late Brethren Truly whatever you pretend they will scarce believe you because in your Post-Script you uncharitably impute the Calumnies and Slanders that were cast upon his late Majesty and his Majesty that now is to the Presbiterians and Independens Indefinitly without exception Is this Charity And this uncharitableness of yours is grievously aggravated First Because it is basely remembred by you who were in the same Condemnation with others And Secondly Because it is mentioned after it hath been pardoned by the Kings Majesty And is this your gratefull return for that love which your late Brethren have manifested to you If so surely the charity of a Catholick and the mercies of the wicked are alike cruel You proceed like a Romane Catholick and in the latter end of page the 1. Sound a Trumpet in your own praise by saying That your carriage was alwaies such while you was in Communion with them meaning your late Brethren As gave them sufficient reason to believe that you was not Byassed by world interests and selfish considerations But if any body believes so they may erre because they do not believe as the Church believes In the Second Page you tell us how you came to be acquainted with a Lay Gentle-Man of the Catholick perswasion and how he interrogated you about the grounds of Christian Religion The substance of his Questions was to this purpose Whether you were sure the Christian Religion in General was more true then the Religion of Turks Jews or any others c The Reason he gave for this question was that if neither your self nor those that taught you that Christianity was the only safe way to Salvation was infallibly certain or were capable of any mistakes or errour in this thing Then it followed that Christianity was but probable and not certain From Page second to the eighth you recite what Arguments your Catholick Friend used to prove these things to you Viz. That we could not convince a Turk or a Jew of the certainty of Christianity but by the Churches Infallibility Which I forbear to make a reply unto partly because it is but a Narrative of a private Conference between you and that Catholick Gentle-Man And chiefly because I shall have occasion to speake to the very same things in my following Answers to your Arguments to which I refer the Reader You come in the latter end of the 8. Page to tell us what Effects this Conference had upon your understanding as that thereupon You resolved to have Recourse to Almighty God by Prayer for his Divine assistance and to make it your businesse according to your skill and understanding to take a full view of the Catholick Faith and of Christianity and laying aside all Prejudices Pride and Humours You Resolved to embrace by the assstance of God whatsoever you should understand to agree to his most Holy Will and Pleasure Hereupon let me aske you a few questions First how are you sure you had a Divine Assistance in this choice as an Answer to your Prayers since when you made these Prayers you were not a member of your pretended Catholick Church Secondly How are you sure since the heart of Man is deceitfull that your heart did not deceive you when it inclined you to Popery Thirdly
our guide but it was because you did not make a deep diligent search into them which is the reason as your Rhemists say Hereticks never find the Truth But why do you beguile your unwary Reader with this word viz. That the Scriptures are not a SOLE Guide thereby to let him think that you allow them in some sense to be a guide when indeed your following Arguments do manifestly declare that you would not have them to be any guide at all Your first Reason why the Scriptures are not a Guide is because they do not answer the end viz. the reconciling differences for those who pretend most to consult the Scriptures do most of all disagree in matters of faith and interpreting the Scriptures To this I answer First May not a Heathen or a Jew alledge the same Argument against Christianity it self and say that the Christian Religion is no safe way to happiness because of the differences that are among the Professors of it 2 May it not be said that the Apostles themselves were no certain Guides because they had divisions and contentions among them and that they had appears by the testimony of St. Paul himself Rom 16.17 Mark them that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine c. And the same Apostle tells the Corinthians 1 Cor. 3.3 and 1 Cor. 11.19 That there was among them envyings strife and contention some holding of Paul and some of Apollo some of Cephas Nay he further tells them there must be Heresies among you that they that are approved might be made manifest 3 May it not as well be said of the Church of the Jews which you say were infallible that they were no Guide or at least no certain Guide because there were differences and contentions among them as there was between the Pharisees Sadduces and Essavaus it is said that the Sadduces denied the Resurrection Angels and Spirit as you say the Scriptures are no Guide to true faith because men differ and and disagree in matters of Faith But 4 May you not as well say that Christ is not the Saviour of the World and that he came not into the World to the end that the World might be saved because it doth not appear that all shall be saved as say the Scriptures are no Guide to end Controversies because all Controversies are not ended 5 May you not as well infer that the grace of God doth not teach men to deny ungodliness because some turn the grace of God into wantonness as say the Scriptures are no sure Guide to faith and salvation because many wrest them to their own destruction 6 May you not as well say that the Primitive Church were no infallible Guide to true faith because they had disagreements and contentions among them as the strife between the Eastern and Western Churches about the keeping of Easter and they excommunicating one another And the Question of Re-baptizing bred the like differences between the Bishops of Rome and the Western Bishops of one Party and Cyprian Dionysius and Firmilianus with most of the Eastern Bishops of the other Party Euseb Hist lib. 5. c. 21. lib. 7. c. 3. Cyp. Ep. 74 75. Soc. lib. 6. c. 17. Soc. lib. 6. c. 21. I say may not one more truly infer these were no Guides because they had dissentions and divisions among them as you may say the Scriptures are not a Guide because of the differences that are amongst Protestants 7 And lastly May I not infer as well from the like Premises because there is and hath been differences among the now-pretended Catholicks as I have already shewn that therefore their Church is no infallible Guide as you may say the men that consult Scriptures do not agree among themselves therefore the Scriptures are not the Guide Your second Reason followeth in the 17 pag. which is but the same in effect with the first therefore the former Answer may suffice onely you tell us a story of an Arian or as the Question of Questions hath it an Arian Cobler how that if you were to dispute with him about the Deity of Christ from Job 10.30 I and my Father are one by this Text you say you should think you had proved the Question But then you say your Arian would compare this Text with john 17.21 where Christ prayeth to his Father that his Disciples might be all one thing as thou Father are in me and I in thee But if you should urge the Arian further and tell him the Council of Nice gave the same Interpretation which you do you say the Arian would answer as the Protestants generally do that they have a worthy esteem of Councils as far as they agree with the Word of God but where they disagree in that he must contradict them all To which I Answer setting aside the contraversie between the Arians and Athanasians as not coming within the verge of our present question that if the Arian Cobler had been as Orthodox in all his other Opinions as he is in his opinion about the Holy Scriptures and Councels viz. to think reverently of Councels and agree with them as far as they agree with the World of Truth I say if this had been all this Arian Coblers Errour I should have judged him a better Christian then a Roman Shoo-maker or the Catholick Collier who could say no more for himself being tempted by the Devil at the point of death what his faith was Answered I believe and dye in the faith of Christs Church Being again demanded what the Faith of Christs Church was Answered The faith that I believe in See Apology Translated by Staplet p. 53. But you say That you can urge against an Arian the Authority of the Councel of Nice and their Interpretation of the Scripture by which they Infallibly decide the controversie And here you think you have a more certaine guide and ground of your Faith then others because they adhere to private spirits and private judgements up on the Scriptures whereas you adhere to general Councel To which I Answer First Doe you think that General Councels did speak and teach in more plainness of Speech and that they uttered words less subject to be wrested by wrong interpretations then the words of the Prophets and Apostles were who spake as they were inspired by the spirit of God Secondly How do you know that you have the true sense and meaning of the Councels determinations since their Decrees are as lyable if not more lyable to mis-interpretations then the Holy Scriptures The reason of this question is because you did not hear them your self and if you had heard them you might have mis-understood them but if you say you have read the Councels and so came to be informed I do further demand how you do believe by a Divine Faith that you do not mis-understand the Councels in what you read and so collect a false sense Thirdly If you shall say you have a Priest to teach you
the sense of the Councels by which you understand what Doctrines are Catholick and what Expositions of Scripture are true and what are false then I demand Fourthly How do you believe with a Divine Faith that what this private Priest teacheth is according to the Infallible Doctrine of the Church since he is a Man and may err and so teach his own private Opinion for the Infallible Doctrine of the Church Fifthly Whether you may not be more subject to mis-understand the Scriptures either by the errour of the Priest in Preaching or the frailty of your understanding in hearing then others are in the reading of the Holy Scriptures And if so why should you say the Scriptures are no guide because they may be mis-interpreted For shame forbear to blame the use of a thing because of the abuse of it What if some are to blame in that they have wrested the Scriptures to serve their own interests Are not you more to blame to wound these men through the sides of the Scripture What if as one well observes That some are blind and miss their way and others are drunk and stagger out of it Must we all conspire to wish the Sun out of the Firmament that we might follow a Will with a Wisp And yet this is your kind of reasoning that because some are perverse and froward and others are full of darkness prejudice and corrupt affections by which they cannot perfectly and infallibly judge of every truth that is contained in the Scripture therefore they must throw away the blessed word of God from being their rule and guide You proceed in p. 18. and tell us That the third Reason which you thought was forcible was that those who are thus far for sole Scripture do not say that one or any particular number of the Books of Scripture but all Scriptures written by inspiration of God do being joyned together make up this Rule and Judge Hence you say you concluded that if any of these Books were lost this Rule was not perfect Now that many of these Books were lost you say you proved from those that remain Num. 21.14 The Book of the Wars of the Lord and this you say is lost It is said of Solomon 1 King 4.3 2. that he spoke 3000 Proverbs and his Songs were 1000 and 5 You conceive you say that upon a just reckoning some of these will be wanting We finde named 2 Chron. 9.29 The Book of Nathan the Prophet the Prophesie of Ahijah and the Visions of Iddo these you say are lost as also those named 1 Chron. 29.29 The Book of Samuel the Book of Nathan the Book of Goda and it is clear from Mat. 27.9 That part of Jeremy is lost So also from Mat. 2.23 Where it was foretold that Christ should be called a Nazaren and 1 Cor. 5.9 Tells us that the Epistle which our Canon calls St. Pauls First Epistle was not truly his first for there he sayeth I wrote to you in an Epistle not to keep company with Fornicatours St. Paul also wrote an Epistle from Laodicea and yet you say you do not finde this Epistle In Answer hereunto I cannot but take notice that you say you THOUGHT this Answer was forcible but where was your Mother that she did not inable you to say you were SURE it was forcible But let us see wherein this force lyeth you say Protestants do not believe a certain number of Books to be their guide but all the Scriptures written by Inspiration from God make up this Rule and Guide and many of these Books are lost therefore this Rule is not perfect I Answer First That the Law of the Lord is perfect and every word of God is pure and therefore there can be no imperfections in the word of God but Secondly How doth it appear that any of those Books which you say were lost had a Divine Image and Superscription upon them or that they that did write them weâ—e inspired by the Holy Ghost in the writing of those particular Books For it is very possible that they wrote many things upon particular occasions as Hezekiah wrote to Ephraim and that sometimes their writings were of no more inspiration from Heaven then Davids Letters were that he sent to Joab by Uriah or then Peters practise for which Paul withstood him to the face But Thirdly What Infallible reason have you to prove that these sayings recited out of these Scriptures may not refer to the Books of Samuel and the Kings which we have extant rather then to any Books that are lost Fourthly How do you know that those writings however the Pen-men were inspired were intended by God for the perpetual use of his Church in all Ages Fifthly How do you Infallibly know that all the Canons or your Church even of those which you say are necessary to Salvation are preserved and that some very material things are not lost Sixthly If you say there is none lost then whether you do not make God in his wise providence more carefull to preserve intire and unmaimed the Canons of your Councels then he hath been to preserve the Writings of his Holy Prophets and Apostles And if you suppose any of the Decrees of your Councels hath been lost or maimed then how do you know Infallibly whether some that are lost are not as material as those you have Thus the edge of your sword is turned against your self But Seventhly If any of the Books of the Old Testament were lost that were by God intended for the perpetual use of that Church to whom his Oracles were committed how then can you say that the Church of the Old Testament was infallible since she failed in that trust that was committed to her viz. the keeping of the Scripture And if this was not a failing in her in that she lost part of the Scriptures then she had not failed if she had lost all and then it followeth that the Scriptures are so far from being a sole Guide that they are no guide at all for if they are a guide and a directer in any sense or if they are of any divine use then it must be an errour either of ignorance or wilfullnesse to suffer them to be lost or maimed Eighthly Whereas you say that the Epistle of St. Paul which your Canon calls the first to the Corinthians was not TRULY his first I Answer then your Canon doth falsely call it the first and then how shall we believe when your Canons are true You had best tell your Mother she lyes as soon as you can speak and then shew a reason for it by telling her That St. Paul saith he writ to the Corinthians an Epistle before Ergo there is an Epistle before that which your Canon calls the first But Chrysostome understands it of the words going before wherein he had charged them to deliver the incestious person to Satan and to purge out the old leaven And that you may see how little cause you have
your negative positions viz. That the private spirit Reason and Scripture is not the sole Judge you come to infer from the whole That the Catholick Church is this judge and that God had alwayes such a Church This you endeavour to make good by saying God had such a Church Two Thousand Years before any Scripture was written And to demonstrate this you say Circumcision was brought in by Abraham and practised by the Church without Scripture to try it by c. I Answer first If the Pope will bring in any new Law or Canon with that Authority as Abraham brought in Circumcision we will believe him without a Council or desiring him to prove it by Scripture But Secondly It seems here is some other Rule and Guide beside Reason Scripture the private Spirit and the Church for here is no Council to decree Circumcision nor private spirit to suggest it nor reason to contrive it But here is God appearing to Abraham and commanding it by an immediate voice from Heaven So that this was Gods way of guiding his People then and not by General Councils and of this opinion is Chrysostome Hom. 1. in Mat. who conceives God might use other means and this agrees with that saying Heb. 1.1 God in sundry times and in diverse manners spake to our Fathers by the Prophets Lastly If the Scriptures are lyable to many exceptions as you say by which they are rendred uncapable of being our infallible Guide then I demand how you know what was transacted in the World the first 2000 Years and whether there was any Church at all in those times If you say you are by the Hystory of the Scriptures guided to believe what was done 2000 Years before the first Pen-man was born I demand how you can believe this since they are so fallibly and subject to so many exceptions as you say But further may I not with more certitude believe what Moses and all the Pen-men of Holy Scriptures writ of things they were eye-witnesses of then you can be of what Moses writ the first 2000 Years that were expired before he was born You come in pag. 27 to a second Argument Namely That the Church of the Jews were so the Jews I suppose you mean an infallible guide after the Scriptures were written and for this purpose you cite Deut. 17.8 The man that will do presumptiously and will not hearken to the voice of the Priest or unto the Judge that man shall dye I answer The Scripture saith Pro. 16.10 A divine sentence is in the lips of the King his mouth transgresseth not in judgement Doth it follow from hence that all Kings are infallible in their judgments But how and by what Rule were these priests to judge whom the People were to obey upon pain of death Ezekiel tells us Chap. 44.24 And in Controversie they shall stand in judgement and they shall judge it according to my Judgement they shall keep my Lawes and Statutes in all their Assemblies and hollow my Sabbaths But did these Priests and Judges always judge according to Gods Law were they always infallible in their Sentences How comes it to pass then that Aaron sinned in hearkening to the voice of the People when they required him to make them a Calf Exod. 32.2 and v. 7. It is said They had corrupted themselves Where was this Churches infallibility at this time and v. 8. They turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them And again where was the infallibility of the Priest when he appointed them v. 3. To break off their earing which were in their eares to make a Calf Surely in this they were an excellent type of the Romane Church who were quickly corrupted from their Primitive Purity Again Ezek. 22.26 It is said The Priests have violated my Law they have prophaned my Holy things they have put no difference between the Holy and Prophane neither have they shewed difference between the Clean and the unclean and have hid their eyes from my Sabbath and I am prophaned among them Neither was this the fault or a few but the Text tells us v. 30. That God sought for a Man among them that should make up the hedge and stand in the gap before him for the land but he found none Where was the Priest and the infallible church all this while whom the People were to hear upon paine of death So that the Text by you cited Deut. 17. is abused for they had plain Laws written which were to be a guide to Priest and People which if the Priest did not judge accordingly as many times they did not the People were not to hear them Your other Text is Mat. 23.2 3. the Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses Chair all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe that observe and do I Answer If by sitting in Moses's chair you understand their teaching the People according to Moses Law we are of your mind for so it appears in the forecited Text in Ezekiel and in all such things the People were to hearken to them But if by sitting in Moses Chair you understand their Publick Authority and that whatsoever they so taught was infallible This I deny for they did sometimes like the Pope Mark 7.7 Teach for Doctrines the Commandments of men and v. 8. Laid aside the Commandments of God as you do the Scriptures that they might hold the traditions of men and v. 13. Made the Word of God of none effect by their traditions But if the Church of the Jews which was represented in the great Synedrion could not erre then it followeth that all Christian Religion must be discarded For if she was infallible in that judgment she made of Christ and his Doctrine then there remains nothing but that we renounce both him and it and turn either Jews or Pagans But lastly It appears that Christ himself had not this opinion of the infallibility of the Jewish Church which you have because then he should have referred all he taught to be decided by them whether it were true or no. But instead thereof he appeals to the Scriptures and offers Himself and his Doctrine as we do at this day to stand or fall by their verdict and to their Authority of the Church he opposeth that of the Scripture to which he knew the other ought to give place John 5.39.46 Mat. 22.42 43 44. Luke 24.27 You come in the third place in p. 27.28 to prove that there shall be an infallible Church under the New Testament your Texts are Esay 2.23 3. Esay 35.8.54.3.13 17. Esay 59.21 Esay 60.10 12. To which I answer First Why are these Texts brought to prove an infallible Church when the Texts themselves you say are no infallible guide how then can they guide us to your infallible Church But 2. How doth it appear that these Texts are to be applied to the Church of the New Testament Much less doth it appear that they are to be applyed to your Roman Church 3
all things necessary to salvation but yet she may for all that erre and be mistaken in some profitable points and as a Man may be a man that hath some lameness and deformity of Body so may the Church be a true Church though it may be corrupt in Doctrine and Practise which it will hardly be freed from till the day in which she shall be presented to her husband a chast spouse without spot or wrinkle or any such thing You proceed and in p. 30. Assigne a fifth Argument That the Church of God was the Rule and Judge and the Infallible Guide when Christ and his Apostles was upon the Earth From whence you would infer that it is so still Sir I can very well own the Antecedent and deny the Consequence But you say There is no Reason why the Church should not be so still unless it be said that the Apostles were Infallible Guides till the Canon of the Scripture was finished and that then Infallibility ceased c. But then you say what will be the Consequence if that the Canon of the sequence if that the Canon of the Scripture which the Apostles finished be now uncompleated by the loss of those Epistles and Parcels of the Apostles Writings which you say you have proved to be lost I Answer It will not follow that we shall need your bind guide if what you say were true But Secondly It follows that your Church is fallible because she hath not faithfully kept those Epistles that she saith were committed to her trust as I have told you once and again Thirdly Whereas you say p. 31 If we had the whole Canon yet it were not sufficient to decide all Controversies now on foot in matters of Faith Sir this is but the same over and over for doth it follow that because all Controversies are not decided that therefore the Scripture is not sufficient to decide them Surely then it follows your Church is not sufficient to decide all Controversies because the Controversie between the Jesuites and the Dominicans and the Franciscans and the Dominicans are not yet decided But Lastly You may as well say that the Grace of God doth not sufficiently teach Men to deny ungodliness and worldly last because the world lyes in wickedness as say the Scriptures are not sufficient to decide Controversies In Faith because Controversies in Faith are not decided This is your Romish Reasoning You come to your last Reason in pag. 32. and tell us Tell none of those difficulties that were proposed to prove the Scripture not to be the Rule are capable of being objected against the Church This Argument I have already Answered by shewing that the same and greater absurdities are objected against your Church But however I will Examine your First Reason since I have not yet met with it and that is Because the Church you say is capable of answering those ends for which it is proposed in that all that submit to it are of one Faith I Answer Then the Church of England may be this True Church for all that submit to her are of one Faith and if any are not it is because they submit not Your other Reasons have fallen under consideration in the Answering of your Arguments about the invalidity of the Scripture to which I refer the Reader You proceed to Answer an Objections pag. 32. which you say is made by those of the separation viz. that these Texts which you have urged are to be understood by the Church Triumphant and not of the Church Militant in the World And after you have set up this pupper of your own as you phrase it or man of straw you spend your 33 34 and 35 Pages to fight against it and therefore I shall do nothing to part the fray because that supposed notion is no friend of mine therefore I shall leave you to struggle with it as well as you can Having taken it for granted that there must be an infallible Church you come in the last place pag. 36. to resolve which is this Church and this you say is the Roman Church the summ of your Argument is this God hath appointed some Church upon Earth to be our Infallible Judge Ergo the Roman Church must needs be this Infallible Church because no Church differing from it that is none but the Roman Church can be this Infallible Church I Answer That this in effect is a Womans Reason to say that you are Infallible because you are Infallible for you say The Roman Church must needs be so because none but the Roman Church can be so No marvel you tell us Reason must not be our Judge for fear it should condemn such un-manlike Arguing But you add further pag. 37. That the Church which is appointed by God to be this Infallible Judge must needs have this condition that she own her Infallibility To which I Answer That then there was no True Church the first 300 years because that there was none that ever owned Infallibility in your sense unless it were the Church of Laodicea who like Rome said she was rich and increased in goods and had need of nothing whereas she was poor and miserable blind and naked So that the whole Argument is made up of presumption for you presume some Church is Infallible and then you presume your Church must needs be so because no other Church own themselves to be Infallible but you must needs give us a better Reason or else while we make any use of Reason we shall not believe it to be so for what if any Church should have the confidence to call themselves Infallible then your Argument would fall to the ground and the Question would then be to be decided either by the Word or by the Sword which of the two were truly Infallible Having Answered your Arguments I shall propose a few Questions to considerations wherewithall I shall conclude Whereas you say There must be an Infallible Church on Earth to judge of all differences and that this Church consists of a Pope reciding in and defining with a general Council in which it is represented by its Pastours out of all Nations I querie first How was the Church guided for the first 300 years in all which time there was no such general Council Secondly In what time and place was the Church ever so universally represented by her Pastours out of all Nations if not then how could she be Infallible being not so represented Thirdly If the Church be no otherwise Infallible but by general Councils as aforesaid then how can we be guided when there is no General Councils as at this day Fourthly If you say we may be guided by those Canons and Decrees which they made in their respective Sessions Then I demand how I shall rightly understand that those Laws and Canons are truly Translated and Interpreted since they were given out in a Language that I understand not Fifthly If you shall say I may know them from the
mouth of the Pope or Chief Pastour then I querie whether it may not be possible for him to erre since many Popes have been Hereticks and have taught contrary to the Law of God as that Pope did that told King Henry the 8th he might marry his Brothers Wife Sixthly But suppose the Pope did not erre in giving me the true sense of Councils and their Decrees then I querie How every private person shall have his judgment informed in the Truth without going to Rome Seventhly If you say he may be resolved at home by the Pastours in several places then I querie whether those Pastours may not erre since it is manifest that the several Pastours and Churches of Asia did erre and then how can the members of this Church be sure they are under an Infallible conduct to Eternal Life and that these Pastours teach according to the Doctrine of the Infallible Church VIII Since you say that General Councils Lawfully Called by the Pope their chief astour cannot erre I querie How I shall be infallibly assured when Councils are so called Since sometimes the Pope may come in by Simony and Usurpation as Boniface the 3 did and sometimes be a Heritick as Lyberius was who subscribed the Excommunication of Athanasius in which cases they ceasing to be lawfull Popes I would then know how I can be sure of a lawful Council IX Since there must be alway a lawfull succession of Popes to make a lawfull succession of True Ministers How shall I know infallibly that the Minister that I heat did lawfully so succeed and this I would know because if he be not a lawfull Minister I may not lawfully hear him And since that sometimes Hereticks have been Popes and sometimes the Chair hath been Usurped and once a Woman was Pope and sometimes there hath been two at once How shall I that am to hear a private Pastour know whether his Ordination did succeed from a lawfull Pope and not from some of these X. How shall I know what Council I may infallibly adhere unto since one Council hath opposed another and some cleave to one Council and some to another the Roman Church they test in the Niceen Council the Greek Church they rest in the Council of Arminum both which are contrary to the other how shall any one be assured of the truth of all those things with a divine certitude And yet you make the world believe that all your wayes are so plain that a fool cannot erre in them and that the Scriptures are doubtfull guides when no Religion in the World is perplexed with more doubts then yours XI If your Roman Church be this Infallible Church and all her Doctrines Infallible then I querie if it be not sinfull to doubt of the Truth of what she teacheth XII If it be not a sin to doubt of what your Church teacheth then why do you blame us for questioning your Infallibility XIII But if it be a sin to question the Churches Doctrine then how came the Baraeans to be commended for searching the Scriptures to see if what Paul preached was so or not and whether might not their searching the Scriptures have run them upon all those inconveniencies of mistaking by false Pointings corrupted Copies false Interpretations to the multiplying of Sects and Hereticks if it might why are they commended for searching XIV How can the reason of the Jews erring be because they did not know the Scriptures if the knowledge of them would not have been a sufficient guide to the Truth XV. But if you shall say we cannot know the Scriptures but by the true Church then I querie how shall I know the true Church since there are as many different opinions about which is the true Church as there is about which is the true sense of Scriptures XVI If you say the Scriptures decide the question and guide us to the true Church then whether this be not to speak Daggers to prove the knowledge of the Scriptures by the Church and the knowledge of the Church by the Scriptures XVII But if you say we know the Church by universal Tradition then I querie whether your Church can be so known since a great part of the Christian World hath and doth disown her witness the Greek Church together with most of the Churches in Europe XVIII Whether then you can shew such an universal Tradition for your Pope and Church as we can do for the Scriptures to which we do well to take heed as to a light that shineth in a dark place till the day dawn and the Day-star arise in our hearts XIX Where was the Infallibility of the Roman Church in the time of Athanasius when he complained totus mundus Arianizat that the whole world Ariantized XX. I demand Where will be the Visibility and Infallibility of your Roman Church in the time of the great Antichrist which your Rhemish Annotators say shall come towards the end of the World and abolish the publick Exercise of all Religion wherein consisteth the worship of the true God and shall pull down all kind of Religious worship save that which shall be done to himself alone See Rhem. Annot on 2 Thess 2.4 How will your Church appear conspicuously and universally to be a guide to Fools infallibly in those days FINIS
Rome is no Rule OR AN ANSWER To an Epistle published by a Roman Catholick who stiles himself Cap. ROBERT EVERARD And may serve for an Answer to two Popish Treatises the one Entituled The Question of Questions and the other Fiat Lux out of which Books the Arguments urged in the said Epistle against the Authority of the Scriptures and the pretended Infallibility of the Roman Church are Collected In which Answer the authority of the Scriptures is vindicated and the Arguments for the Romish Infallibility Refuted By J. I. Prov. 8.17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him Job 6.25 How forcible are right words but what do your arguings reprove LONDON Printed by T. M. for Livewel Chapman at his Shop in Exchange Alley in Cornbil 1664. TO THE READER Reader SInce the Word of God which he hath exalted above all his Name to be as a light shining in a dark place and as a Rule try Doctrines whether they are of Heaven or of Men is by Roman Catholicks cried down as altogether insufficient for that purpose by reason whereof they have and do daily beguile unstable Souls I shall therefore as a preface to this ensuing Discourse lay before you the Judgement of Christ and his Apostles and diverse of the Antient Fathers who trode in their paths touching the Authority and Vsesulness of the Holy Scriptures and compare them with the Judgements of the Romane Catholicks that so trying all things thou mayest hold first that which is best In the first place it was the Judgement of Christ whose Judgement is believed by all Christians to be Infallible That Men ought to search the Scriptures Joh. 5.39 And that the reason why the Jews did erre in the Doctrine of the Resurrection was because they did not know the scripture Mark 12.24 He judged that the reason why the Jews did not believe him was because they did not believe the Scriptures Jo. 5.46 He judged the Scriptures to be Armour of proof against the Devil Mat. 4.6 7. He confutes his Adversaries by them Joh. 8.17 Mat. 12.4 5. This was also the judgement and practise of the Apostles therefore they commend the Bareans for searching the Scriptures Acts 17.11 Hence it was that they mightily convinced the Jews shewing by the Scriptures That Jesus was the Christ Acts 18.28 The Apostle informs Timothy That they were able to make wise to salvation and that they were profitable for Doctrine for Reproof for Correction and for Instruction in Righteousnesse 2 Tim. 3.15 16. And that if we fulfil the Royal law according to the scriptures we shall do well Jam. 2.8 That they were written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come 1 Cor. 10 11. And that they were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have Hope Rom. 15.4 This was also the judgment of the Fathers who followed the footsteps of Christ and his Apostles St. Augustine saith upon the 8. Psalm That God hath bowed down the scriptures to the capacity of Babes and Sucklings that when proud men will not speak to their capacity himself might And again the same Authour saith That our Faith would reel and totter if the Authority of the scriptures did not stand fast de Doct. Christ Lib. 1. Cap. 37. St. Chrysost saith The scriptures are easie to be understood and are exposed to the capacity of every Servant and Plow-Man and Widow and Boy and therefore God Penned the scriptures by the hand of Publicans Fisher-men Tent-makers Neat-heards and Unlearned men that none of the simple people might have any excuse to keep them from reading Hom. 1. in Mat. Again be saith That whatsoever is required to salvation is all set down in scriptures neither is there any thing wanting there that is needfull for mans salvation Hom. 41. in Mat. Justin Martyr saith That we should hear the words of the scriptures which are so plain and easie that they need no Exposition but to be rehearsed Dialogue cum Triphon 213. St. Hierome saith Whatsoever things men find and feign without the Authority and Testimony of the scriptures as if they were from Apostolical Tradition are smitten by the sword of God see Comment in Hagg. Cap. 2. On the other hand the Roman Catholicks say The scriptures are no certain Rule no Infallible guide and that all things necessary to salvation are not contained in them See the Books Entituled the Question of Questions and Fiat Lux and the Epistle Published by Everard to which this Answer is Directed They forbid the People to use and search them See Everards Epistle pa. 14. He saith Those words in the 5. of John are so far from being a Command to search the scriptures that they rather seem a reprehension to all that have such a conceit of them Again they say The scriptures are fitted to the time and are variably understood the sense whereof being one while this and again another while that according as it pleaseth the Church to change her judgement See Cusan Ep. 2.37 Again The Bishop of Toledo's putting forth the Bible in divers Languages puts the Latine Translation in the midst between the Hebrew and Greek and then saith the Greek and Hebrew he placed of either side as two Thieves and the Latine between them as Jesus Christ Others of them call the Scriptures a nose of wax that may be writhed any way and a dumb Judge c. Now whoever shall but impartially lay the judgment of these men concerning the Scriptures in the ballance of the Sanctuary and compare them with what Christ his Apostles and their followers judged of them may easily see that there is more excellency in the gleanings of the Scriptures then in the full Vintage of the Pope and all his Cardinals whose Vines are like those of Sodom by reason whereof the Nations have been intoxicated and made drunk with the wine of her fornication For if they were not drunk they would never quit both Scripture and Reason and the Spirit of God all that by which they become both Men and Christians to hearken to the voice of the Romish Charmers who rather then they will want water to carry Proselytes to the Romish Sea care not though they open the flood-gates of Atheism and Antiscripturism upon the Christian World For who seeth not but he that is willing to be blind that the arguments levied by them for wounding the reputation of Scriptures are as a sharp sword ready to pass through the reins of Christianity it self For the prevention whereof I have published this ensuing Answer which I do desire may be impartially considered and the Lord give you understanding in all things and open your understanding that you may understand the Scriptures that so taking to your selves the swords of the Spirit which is the word of God you may be able to resist all the adversaries of your pretious souls who daily seek to make
When you say you made this search according to the uttermost of your understanding how do you infallibly know that your understanding was not depraved and that you were not given over to an injudicious mind Fourthly Did you not pretend to have used the same means to find out the true Church when you turned an Independent as you did when you did turn Papist Lastly If so how are you more able to Answer the Turk or Jew now then you were when your Catholick Friend began to discourse with you In the latter end of p. 8. and the beginning of the 9. You say that You gathered from Heb. 1â— 6 Mark 16.16 Eph. 4.5 2 Cor. 10.45 Heb 10.13 From all which scriptures where God requires Faith you say you thought it did naturally follow that there must be some means appointed by God by which we may know this true faith from all false Opinions or else you say p. 10. that prophesie would be ineffectual Esay 35. Say to them that are of a fearfull heart Be strang fear not hebold your God will come and save you Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened and the eares of the deaf shall be unstopped c. There shall be one high way and a way and it shall be called the holy way the way faring men though fools shall not erre therein Now since God hath appointed such a way Your great difficulty you say is to finde out the Rule and the Judge since one party proposeth the spirit to be his guide a Second proposeth Reason to be his Rule A Third proposeth Scriptures The Fourth assigneth the Holy Catholick Church c. You answer to the First and say That the spirit bearing witness with our spirts or in plain terms the private spirit is not that judge Your reason is because any one whether he be Jew Pagan or Christian if he have but confidence enough may pretend to the Spirit But since you say the great difficulty is to finde out the Rule I would gladly know how this difficulty shall be infallibly resolved For if the private spirit within me must not resolve me nor my reason must not be my Rule nor the Scriptures my Guide then I have no light left me to shew me the Church but the Church Thus they deal like thieves put out all other lights that should discover them but their own dark lanthorn But if you shall say that you prove the Church by Miracles How shall I be satisfied that those Miracles are not delusions Since as many pretend to the spirit that have it not So many pretend to miracles that have them not Then we must have faith to believe those miracles are true and if they are true they are no otherwise true but by the spirit of God Then it is the same absurdity to believe miracles by the spirits testimony as it is to believe the Scriptures by the spirits testimony But this also implies a contradiction for if I must finde the Church by the light of the spirit perswading me that she doth those miracles by the power of God then â—ave you contradicted your self by saying The spirit is not the guide But further may not a man as well say that he believes he hath the spirit by the spirit and that he believes the Scriptures by the Scriptures as you say you believe the Church by the Church I am sure the last is the greatest absurdity and may not a Turk say the same for his way that he believers Mahomet by Mahomet and the Alcoran by the Alcoran as you believe the Church by the Church Now if you shall say you believe the Church by the Scripture then the question will be how you know them to be the Word of God If you say because the Church teaches they are so then you run round like a horse in a Mill proving the Church by the Scripture and the Scripture by the Church You give another Reason why the spirit witnessing within us is not the guide appointed by God because by this none that ever pretended to it did reconcile differences Pray let charity begin at home if your Church be so infallible why do not you decide the differences that are between the Jesuites and the Dominicans hath not as endless controversies arisen among you Hath not as many Errours and Schismes sprung from you as from any People professing Christianity And would not your divisions be greater if the power of the Sword did not prevail more then your pretended Infallibility And whereas you say St. John prescribeth a Rule to know the Spirit of Truth from the Spirit of Errour 1 Joh. 4. We are of God he that knoweth God heareth us and he that is not of God heareth not us Hereby we know the Spirit of Truth from the Spirit of Errour Now what is this to your purpose unless you would still beg the question That your Church and her Doctors are intended in those words WE and US But what if it be proved that you do not hear the Apostles Then it follows by the Text and your own Argument that you have the Spirit of Errour Now the Apostle taught that a Man should examine himself and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup but you deny the cup to the common people is this hearing the Apostles The Apostle allows the Bishops to be Husbands of one Wife but you forbid that they should have any at all The Apostles would not have Prayers said in a Language that the People understood not but you command it Christ and the Apostles commanded a diligent reading and searching of the Scriptures but you forbid it and yet you are the only Men that must be heard though you teach contrary to Scripture You go on and say That Reason must not be our Judge because it must submit to the Judge as a Subject c. I pray what was your Judge who resolved the question which you say had so much difficulty in it viz. who should direct you whether any Church was Infallible or no or where that Church was to be found Did your reason guide you in this search or no If it did not I do not wonder you made no better choise but you say Reason is not your Rule because it was to submit as a Vassall to that Rule and Judge But Sir Though the Church of Rome which you call your Judge do exercise such a Lordship over the reasons of Men I am sure you have given no reason why it should be so You say Reason is apt to mistake and therefore we ought not to be governed by it But Sir what if I say the Pope is apt to mistake and therefore I ought not to be governed by him I am sure if that be made to appear in the judgment of Reason then Reason will guide me to decline following such a blind Guide As for example Liberius that was Pope about the year 350 fell into Arianism and subscribed to
you say that if they were understood in the Imperative Mood they cannot work Faith in those that cannot read But then it seems they may work Faith in them that can read because as the Rhemists say they can shew both Jews and Hereticks the Truth if they search deeply and diligently But secondly How can general Councilsshew the Truth and beget Faith since if they are infallible every body cannot read their Decrees and Canons If you say they understand those Decrees and Canons by the general Consent of those that can read then by the same means may a man that cannot read the Scripture be guided by them 3 You say that by those words search the Scripture cannot be understood that the Scriptures should be our Judge and guide because then they would have excluded Christ and after him his Apostles from being the infallible means by which true Faith was to be taught to the World But how doth this follow since you say the Church under the Old Testament was a Judge and an infallible guide But did their being an infallible guide till Christ exclude Christ from being a guide and did Christs being a guide when he was on the Earth exclude the Holy Ghost from being a guide when he left the Earth In like manner it followeth not because the Scriptures of the Old Testament for of them Christ speaks in the place under debate were a guide to instruct men into the knowledge of the Messiah that they should exclude Him His Spirit or Apostles from being Guides But further it followeth by the same parity of Reason that if the Scriptures of the Old Testament could not be an infallible guide because then they would have excluded Christ and after him his Apostles from being infallible guides I say it follows by the same reason that if Christ and his Apostles were infallible Guides and Judges in matters of Faith that then they have excluded the Church of Rome from being that infallible Guide and Judge which she pretends her self to be and thus you have sharpned a Knife to cut your Mothers throat You pretend pag. 14. and say that the second Reason that is urged for sole Scripture being a guide is 2 Tim 3.15 From a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus All Scripture is given by Inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect throughly furnished to all good works This Text you say proves not what is intended viz. that the Scripture alone was the way the rule and means appointed by God to judge and decide all doubts c. your Reasons pag. 15. are First That though They might be profitable to such a man as Timothy who had faith already yet they could no way be profitable nor useful to one that had not faith or did not believe them to be the Word of God for Faith comes by hearing not by reading To which I answer First If the Scriptures are not a Guide to them that believe not why do the Rhemists say that the reason why Jews and Hereticks do not finde Christ to be their King Lord Life and Saviour is because they did not search the Scriptures deeply Surely you will not say that Jews and Hereticks are Believers and you say they are no guide to Unbelievers why then do the Rhemists say Christ reprehended them for not fearching the Scriptures deeply To what purpose then are Jews and Hereticks blamed for not searching the Scriptures deeply if the Scriptures had been as you say no way profitable to them but further you say they are not profitable to them that do not believe them to be the word of God Suppose this were granted which cannot be proved doth it not follow that your Roman Church by the same reason is no way profitable no way a Judge nor an infallible Guide to any that do not believe her to be so and by the same reason an Atheist may say All gods providences are no monitors to him All his judgements are no examples to him because cause he doth not believe there is a God Is not this as good Logick as to say the Scriptures are no way profitable to them that do not believe them to be the Word of God You proceed to give another reason why this Scripture 2 Tim. 3.15 is not a proof for what is pretended because then if the Scriptures more solely sufficient which Timothy knew from a child they being but the Scriptures of the Old â—estamâ—nt it would follow that Christ and the Now Testament and the Sacraments and the Apostles are at least not necessary I answer if by the Scriptures sole sufficiency you mean that they are sufficient to bring men to salvation without Faith Repentance and Obedience then this is a Puppit of your own as you Phrase it for where is there any Protestant of that mind therefore you do but bark against the Moon But we say they are solely sufficient to direct us to those ways by which we may obtain salvation But then say you What needed Christ and the Apostles and the New Testament if the Scriptures Timothy had learned which were those of the Old Testament were sufficient But then I answer as before if Christ and the Apostles were solely sufficient what need is there of your Pope and Council So that by this Argument you either make Christ and his Apostles not solely sufficient or if they were then what need this waste of a General Council But you may say that a General Council was to direct people in succeeding Ages So were the Scriptures much rather for whatever was written aforetime was written for our Learning upon whom the ends of the World are come In the last place you say pag. 15. The word All Scripture must either signifie every Scripture as the Original word 〈◊〉 ought to be rendred or All Scriptures that ever were or All Scriptures that were when this Text was written or All that we now have If it be to be understood of every Scripture or any Scripture then you say it doth prove too much because then all the Scriptures save one Book are useless Though what hath been said doth sufficiently answer this innumeration and therefore I might be excused from answering any farther yet because you intimate a farther proof of what you now urge I shall therefore when I meet with it give a further Answer You come in the 16 page to tell your Reader That you met with no Arguments for the sole sufficiency of Scripture among those that were usually urged and therefore you resolved to see what could be said against this common General opinion of all who oppose the Church of Rome why the Scriptures could not be this Rule and Judge You say you have not met with any Arguments to prove the sole sufficiency of Scripture to be
These promises to the Church are made upon condition like that promise Ezekiel 36.27 I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes here to use your own words is the Spirit of Truth promised to preserve them from errour But this is not absolutely promised without condition for the 37 ver saith For all this he will be enquired of them And to this agrees those Texts in the New Testament Act. 5.32 The holy Ghost which God hath promised to them that obey him Luke 11.13 My heavenly Father shall give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him By all which it appears that God did not promise to guide the Church absolutely and irresistably whether they would or no but upon their faithful adhering to what they had been taught he promiseth his Spirits continual supply for their continual instruction But 4. Whereas it is said Esay 35.8 that there shall be away that fools shall not err therein which is a Text so much insisted on by you I demand whether this Text doth imply an impossibility of erring If so then we may as well go to a Fool to be guided as to a Pope because it saith The wavering men though Fools shall not err therein so that this Text as truly concludes infallibility in any body as in the Pope and his Council But 5. To speak somewhat in particular to that Text Esay 59.21 As for me this is my Covenant with them saith the Lord my spirit that is upon thee and my words which I have put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor but of the mouth of thy seeds seed from heneforth and forever To this Text I answer That these words are rather a charge that Gods Word should not depart from them and their seed then a promise of any such thing And therefore Mr. Calvin whom you sometimes produce upon the like occasion grants that the words will bear an Imperative construction God requiring them thereby not to quench his Spirit which he puts into them nor forsake his Word which he should teach them so that as the Covenants on his part to give them his Word and Spirit so he requires on their part that they should not resist nor quench it and to this agrees Junius and therefore he translates those word in the beginning of the verse As for me De me autem i. e. but as much as concerns me thereby shewing that as God had concerned himself in putting his Word and Spirit into them so they were concerned to see that it did not depart from them And therefore unless you can prove that the Church of Rome is the Church here prophesied of and also that these Texts are not understood conditionally and if conditionally that the Church of Rome hath observed these conditions you have but beaten the air in the citation of them You proceed to a fourth Argument to prove that there must be an infallible Church from several Texts of the New Testament the first is Mat. 16.19 Upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it To which I answer First that you have lost the Original of St. Mathews Gospel as you confess and therefore you know not whether this Text be so in the Original and this further appears because you say pag. 20. that you cannot tell whether he that translated it was an honest man or not But 2. The words upon which this Controversie depends viz. the Rock and the Gates of Hell are a Metaphorical expression from whence Logically you cannot infer your conclusion 3. No Scripture is of private interpretation Now to interpret the prevailing of the gates of Hell for the prevailing of Errour is a private interpretation first because Errour and Heresie is never so called in all the Scripture 2. Because Sheol which the Greek translates haiden or haides and we in English Hell is frequently taken for the Grave And of this mind was Chrysostom who paraphrasing upon these words of Christ saith If the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church much more shall they not prevail against Christ therefore be not troubled when thou shalt hear that I am betrayed and crucified By which it doth appear that this Author understands by the gates of Hell prevailing that Death and the Grave should neither prevail over Christ nor his Church and therefore he could not understand thereby that it was a promise the Church should not err and that the gates of Hell is understood for the gates of the Grave see Esay 38.10 Hezekiah said when the fear of death came upon him that he should go to the gates of Sheol i. e. Grave So Job 38.17 Psal 9.13 Psal 107.18 4 Again As the gate of Hell cannot be understood for Error so the Rock here spoken of cannot be understood for Peters person because it is more agreeing with the sense of the place being compared with other Scriptures and the Analogie of Faith to understand it of Christ who is the Rock of Ages and the chief Corner-stone Ephes 2.20 and 1 Cor. 10.4 they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ So that Peter having professed Christ to be the Son of the living God our Lord tells him that Upon this Rock or Christ whom he had made profession of he would build his Church and that though he might be put to death to use the words of Chrysostome yet Peter ought not to be troubled because death should not have dominion over him the gates of death should not prevail against him who will swallow up death in victory But lastly What if we pity the poor and grant you that which you are never able to prove viz. that by the Gates of Hell not prevailing should be understood that Errour and Heresie should not prevail against the Church Yet it doth not follow from hence that the Church shall be preserved from all Errour Might you not as well say that none that believe can sin because sin shall not have dominion over them and that it was impossible for Saints to die because Christ hath promised them the victory over death as say that because Christ hath promised Errour shall not prevail over them that therefore it is impossible the Church should err in any thing Your next Scripture is Mat. 18.17 He that will not hear the Church let him be unto thee as a Heathen or a Publican I answer 1 It doth not follow from hence that the Church cannot err no more then it followeth from your former Arguments that the Scribes and Pharisees could not err because Christ commanded to hear them But 2 This Text proves more then you allow for it proves that particular Churches cannot err for of such a Church Christ speaks and not of the Church representative in a general Council my reason is because one that is offended with his brother if
he cannot reclaim him he must tell the Church which cannot be understood for any but that particular Church among whom he resides which you say are such as may err in judgment 3 By the same parity of reason a single private man cannot err because the Text saith he ought to be heard if he admonish his brother of his fault ver 15 16 17. and that it is his brothers sin if he do not hear him and the Text further saith If his brother do hear him that he hath gained his brother But if this brother might err then he might err in admonishing and the admonished person in stead of being gained to the Truth might be gained to an errour This is the sum of your Argument I am to hear the Church therefore the Church cannot err might you not as Logically infer that because I am to hear a single private brother therefore a single private brother cannot err and by this you would make all the Sons of your Church infallible like the Pope your Father and by this rule Parents are infallible because they must be heard by their children Your next Scriptures are Mat. 28.20 Lo I am with you always to the end of the world and Joh. 24.16 I will pray the Father and he will send you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever even the Spirit of Truth which the World cannot receive and ver 26. The Comforter which is the Holy Ghost which the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all things and bring all things into your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you and Chap. 16.17 I have many things to say unto you but you cannot hear them now howbeit when the Spirit of Truth is come he will guide you into all Truth From which you infer that if Christ and his Spirit should be with his Apostles for ever to lead them into all Truth it follows they shall be preserved from all errour To which I answer 1. That this Text in St. Mathew cannot be a good argument for you because you say you have lost the Original of St. Mathews Gospel and cannot tell whether he that did translate it was an honest man or no. 2 The Spirit of Christ might preserve the Apostles from all Errour and yet not be engaged to secure the Church from erring to the end of the World But 3 I answer further If this promise was made that the Holy Spirit should lead the Church in all Ages into all Truth it doth not follow as I have said that it should lead them irresistably though it might lead them sufficiently But 4. May I not as well infer that because the Spirit was promised to convince the World of sin because they believe not in Christ that therefore all the world cannot be but effectually and irresistably convinced as you may say that because the Spirit is promised to lead into all Truth that therefore the Church cannot err but must be effectually so led 5 It is called the Spirit of Truth which the World cannot receive meaning notorious and wicked men Now then this Spirit some of those Popes which you call the Apostles successors could not have because many of them have been notoriously and confessedly wicked all which doth plainly shew that this promise of the Spirit was made to direct and guide us into a further knowledge of the Truth till we come to be perfect in Christ upon condition that we are faithful in what we already know Like unto that promise Joh. 17.17 If any man do his will he shall know of his doctrine and to this agrees the Rhemiâ—â— Testament translating that Text of John 14.15 16. If you love me keep my comandements and I will pray the Father and he will give you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for ever Now how can I be infallible that the Pope is thus guided unless I do infallibly know that he loves God and keeps his Commandements 6 You say 〈◊〉 into all Truth implies preserving from all errour but this follow not not more then because the Scriptures say Gods goodness leads to Repentance that therefore all men should be preserved from impenitency And lastly If leading into all truth implies preserving from all Error how comes it to pass that since your Church as you say is an infallible guide into all Truth that she doth not preserve all her sons from all Errour And if you shall say see doth guide them all sufficiently though not efficiently although that be false yet you have answered your self For though Gods Spirit and goodness be sufficient to lead to Truth and Repentance yet it doth not follow but there are as sad experience teacheth multitudes of erring and impenitent persons Your next Text is Ephes 4.11 He gave some Prophets some Evangelists some Pastors and some Teachers for perfecting the Saints for the work of the Ministry for the edifying the body of Christ till we come in the union of the faith and ver 14. that we be no more children in understanding c. From which Text you would prove that the succession of the Apostles in the Church was to preserve people from being tossed to and fro with every wind of Doctrine but what then doth this prove the Church cannot err This means was used by God for the perfecting of Saints and yet we see that they are full of imperfections Thus God may teach and the Church not learn Gods Spirit may lead and the Church like Rome may be refractory Your last Text is 1 Tim. 3.15 The Church of the living God the Pillar and ground of Trust. Hence you would infer that the Church cannot err because we may securely relye upon her as upon a Pillar To which I answer That these words do not respect the universal Church as you would have it but the particular Church which Timothy had the oversight of in which Paul admonisheth him how he should behave himself But 2. If this were granted that the universal Church is here meant and not a particular Church I answer that this proves nothing to your purpose because Churches and People receive their denomination ordinarily from what they should be in point of Duty and not from what they are by necessity Thus the Disciples are called the Salt of the Earth because they were in duty to be so and not that there was a necessity that they could not have been otherwise else it had been in vain to threaten them that if they lost their savour they should be good for nothing but to be trodden under foot In like manner the Church is the Pillar of Truth and ground of in point of Duty and yet this doth not hinder but she may neglect and violate this Duty and become the Teacher of Errour But lastly The Church may be the Pillar and Ground of Truth not only because she should be so but because in all Ages she is so in that she teacheth and maintaineth