then heare them not Verba legis proferendo in the opinion of Saint Augustine so long as they speake Law This is not our Heresie but Catholique Doctrine De legis ac Mosis doctrinâ loquitur perindè enim est acsi dicat Omnia quae Lex Moyses vobis dixerint Scribis Pharisaeis recitantibus seruate saith Maldonate no friend nor fauourer of Protestants And after him Barradas another Iesuite in this resolution a very Protestant Hoc est saith he omnia quae legi Dei mandatis non repugnāt Ergo bound in the text with this restriction as you must and it is a plaine Gagge to the Gospel Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and hee that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me Therfore c. You know not what you say All this we constantly beleeue But first I answere this is a text indeede to purpose to vindicate authority to the Church and her Pastors but not expressely which is your vndertaking by necessary consequence and indenied it is but you haue tied your selfe foole as you were vnto expresse words and expresse words are not here extant Secondly perhaps it is not so pat as you imagine because the men intended there and then were of another making fashion and account than euer were any since or before and therefore their priuiledges more peculiar of greater extent insomuch as that all were not to be heard so respectiuely as they were they without Scripture or allegation of Scripture hauing mission immediate from the Sonne himselfe which none euer had but they But thirdly I answere take it with Saint Cyprian Epist 96. and others in a larger extent ad omnes praepositos qui Apostolis vicariâ ordinatione succedunt vnto the Gouernours in the Church who succeede the Apostles in the Churches gouernement by imposition of hands and ordination and goe and answere your selfe out of Saint Bernard thus Be the commandement tendred by God or man as Gods agent it is to be receiued with like reuerence Vbi tamen Deo contraria non praecipit homo As farre as man doth not gain-say the will and commandement of the most high A flat Protestant in his assertion and vpon reason For a Nuntio must goe to his Commission Matth. 16. 19. I will giue vnto thee the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen whatsoeuer thou shalt loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen Which text hath no such mention of relying vpon Church or Pastors in matters of faith expressed Nor hitherto perhaps any such meaning Your Compeeres were wont to cry vs downe with this text For Saint Peters iurisdiction ouer all and the Popes vniuersall power in claue potestatis You now waue that power it seemeth and cast aside that key and lay hold vpon that other key of knowledge Shall wee belieue your Puniship or them This cannot be good Catholique vnitie in so fundamentall a poynt of your Faith except for neere alliance betwixt Saint Peter and his Spouse the Church whatsouer is remembred of the one must be likewise true of the other But out with your Table-bookes you that haue them amongst you and Note the man will giue you something worth the noting that is our Sauiour doth not say whomsoeuer but whatsoeuer We take it and note it and meane to make good vse of it inferring thereupon through your owne confession that therefore St. Peter by Christs commission must in case of binding and loosing and executing the power of the Keyes which whether it be all one with binding and losing you are not agreed amongst your selues let whomsoeuer alone for euer and betake himselfe vnto whatsoeuer that is not meddle any more with Kings and Princes with cantoning of their Kingdomes and estates but content himselfe with whatsoeuer matters of fact inferiour matters of Faith and the like decisions at least with Causes and Persons within his owne Verge indeede Causes that is knots and difficulties for Persons are none of that combination So to shake hands with your memorable obseruation Therefore in matters of faith euen by their owne Bible wee must not relye vpon the written word onely but vpon whatsoeuer Saint Peter shall tie or vntie which we in this case are contented to doe and to say with that Councell of which he was a part you say President visum est spiritui sancto nobis the decision of the Catholique Church wee receiue as the dictate of the holy Spirit but be you sure it is the iudgment of the Church for you are good Proficients in equiuocation and present vs the Church vpon no better termes then if you should tender vs a man of straw for a perfect man or a shadow for a substance Indeede to this effect that is to as little purpose as that which went before In cases of controuersies and of doubts in matters of fact or ciuill cognisance which could not be determined by ordinary course of Law in the seuerall Counties as it were or Places of iudicature the Parties plaintife and defendants were to referre it to the Leuits Priests and Iudge in these daies that is to the Church and to the Pope you dreame and let your dreame goe once for truth and they must heare it determine it definitiuely It was capitall to refuse or to appeale Good but yet this commeth not home for they must determine it according vnto Law to which supreamest decision both concurre the Rule of right and determiner of right according to that rule In our construction to our present question the iudgement of the Church according vnto Scripture the selfe-same that the Protestant maintaineth In this text I graunt more is to be seene then in all the rest viz. when the word of the Lord came vnto Agge the Prophet Which thing how it sorteth with the present position I cannot tell speake those that can But the word that then came vnto him was this in the 12. verse Aske the Priests concerning the Lawe And the Priests answered according vnto Law thus and thus And this is resoluing of a doubt by the Priests but the doubt resolued according vnto Law so the written word is relyed vpon Not I my selfe the word onely Quis enim respondet Did euer any man deny that the Church and her Pastors are not to be heard speaking out of or else according vnto Scriptures Shew this and take it else Nihil ad rhombum That of 2 Chron. 19. 8. is all one with Deuter. 17. 8. an exemplification of that rule a practice according vnto that direction there somewhat more For hereby it appeareth that the Precept was not for Tell the Church and heare her Pastors but goe take the ordinary course appointed the iudgement of a standing court mixt of Clergie and of the Laitie as it were our court of high Commission or indeede the Starre-chamber consisting of both robes
shall not depart is Gods promise Mans promise reciprocall is I will not depart from them If I depart that is if man faile They may and shall depart God is then free Now this supposed what assurance is there for my words shall not depart c So your first Text is mistaken peraduenture in the meaning but without peraduenture in the allegation It is Esay 5â— 21. not as you tender it from your aduisers 49. 21. And lastly it is to be vnderstood of the Church of the Iewes in particular conuerted vnto Christ as it seemeth by Saint Paul Rom. 11. 26. and not of the Church of the Christians already conuerted and so you misapply as well as mistake But more ridiculously in your second Text Iohn 14. 16. For haue you read or heard that euer any Protestant maintained That the holy Ghost can erre I suppose not I beleeue you are not so much past shame to say so and yet your conclusion is so The spirit of truth cannot erre For hauing recited the Text of the Gospell your illation is Therefore the spirit of truth hath aboade for euer and shall abide for euer with the Church and consequently cannot erre What Sir cannot erre To my vnderstanding The Spirit of Truth cannot erre can you vnderstand it otherwise But let your barbarismes goe by to the point I answer first you faile and that confessedly in your vndertakings It is but consequently the Church cannot erre therefore confessed not expresly Secondly I answer out of the Text it selfe This promise is for comfort not instruction The Comforter shall abide for euer for Christ there spake of affliction which should ensue Thirdly were it punctually for direction we might reioyne It was a temporary promise a personall priuiledge to the Apostles you thought wee would say so belike supposing wee had no other shift silly men like your selfe therefore you come in with by way of preuention But the Apostles themselues could not abide for euer poore foole that knowest not there is duplex aeternum frequent in Scripture Gods euer and mans euer That for euerlasting as God is This for the terme of his being so for euer is thus no more then while you are all the dayes of your life But we seeke no aduantage we will not take it we grant Gods Spirit eternally assistant to the Catholique Church then represented in the Apostles and therefore we admit that you belye vs in your Proposition The Church can erre to be vnderstood of the Catholique Church as is expressed The third Text in order Esay 35. 8. is so farre from expressing the not erring of the Church that it is a question though such a Nouice as you know it not whether it be to be taken of the Church at all Hierome in his Comments expoundeth it of Christ who saith of himselfe Iohn 14. I am the way the truth the life An high way shall be there and a way and it shall be called the way of holinesse the vncleane shall not passe ouer it but it shall be for those The way faring men though fooles shall not erre therein Who told you that this way was the Church why not the Scripture which is also a way and called a way as to my remembrance the Church is not Ibi erit semita via mundissima quae sancta vocabitur c. There shall be a path saith Hierome and a most cleane way which shall be called Holy and which saith of himselfe I am the way by which way the polluted cannot passe where also we reade it spoken in the Psalme Blessed are the vndefiled in the way And this way that is our God shall be vnto vs so direct so plaine so open and champion that no wandring shall be there Fooles and silly men may walke therein vnto whom in the Prouerbs wisdome speaketh thus If there be any little ones let them come vnto me and shee hath spoken vnto the Fooles Come you and eate of my bread Thus Hierome vpon the place Tertullian in 4. against Marcion is indifferent for Christ the head of the Church or Faith in Christ the life of the Church Your Worship Sir Gagger out of your authoritie cast it meerely vpon the Church Satis pro Imperio if you can out-beare it Howsoeuer it is not expresse as it should be Not to purpose if it were expresse our question is not whether fooles can erre but whether the Church can erre The Church hath often beene compared to a Ship and now at last by you made a Ship of Fooles Content so you be Pilot in that Ship Sir Foole. Once at length you rightly bid vs goe see more For the Text of Iohn 16. 13. is more expresse than all the former He shall leade you into all truth But what if this text concerne not truth vpon Earth but Truth in Heauen What becommeth then of your Not erring Augustine and Bede encline that way What if it be personall vnto the Apostles alone not to the Church or their successours Hee will shew you the things to come and I haue many things to say vnto you but you cannot beare them now these such like passages doe more than seeme to conclude it vnto them What if he meant but All things that were necessary and conuenient for them to know so Theophylact Euthymius and others In this sort the Church is eternally directed so the Church directed cannot erre Matth. 18. 17. It is commaunded by authoritie Tell the Church and heare the Church No good proofe the Church cannot erre For the Scribes and Pharises were to be heard and obeyed yet had no assurance of infallibility Kings and Princes are to be obeyed yet haue they fallen into great enormities Ephes 5. 27. the Church is said to be glorious without spot or wrinckle or blame which is to be vnderstood de toâ—o integrato of the parts in Heauen and earth Of the time to come rather than present Without blame yet not without wrinckle euen here for error may be where blame is none Esay 9. 7. the Kingdome of Christ is to be established with iudgement and with iustice for euer and yet I know no such priuiledge annexed to iudgement or iustice of infallibility No more then Ezech. 37. 26. to a Couenant of peace an Euerlasting couenant to multiplying of them or placing Gods Sanctuary amongst them for euer Luk. 22. 32. and Matth. 23. 3. What correspondency haue they one with another not to speake of reference vnto the poynt In the former Peters faith was prayed for that it might not faile and yet Peter denied Christ Iesus If Peter were not the Church what maketh this Text amongst the rabbâ—e If Peter were the Church may erre as Peter fayled though not eternally one or other In the latter the Pharises must be heard And therefore will you say they erred not If they erred as doubtlesse they did then to what purpose are they pretended for not erring of the Church Much good may the
hearty satisfaction he was restored Satisfaction not to God but to the Church whom hee had scandalized by his fall Goe along with Saint Paul and the Primitiue times no man will euer say Blacke is your Eye We haue seene Mathew 18. 18. and 16. 19. once and againe to as little purpose then as now and now as then The name Pardons and the thing your Pardons are two things much differing euery way and yet in neither place auonched is the Name as by your vndertaking for Expresse it should be The thing as much differing as white and blacke Power to binde and loose we denye not wee maintaine and practice it in our Church We may differ in the Execution but Circumstances alter not Nature your proofes may vouch the Thing the right the vse the being but manner fashion execution onely doubted of and to be proued that you touch not See Fathers that list and like to loose their labour In Tertullian I am sure nothing either in the first Chapter of his Booke ad Martyres remembred by some other of your Gossips nor in his fifth which is supplyed out of your store His Booke ad Martyres is very â—â—ort Finde me Pardons and Indulgences there mentioned and I will purchase a Bull from Rome my selfe whatsoeuer it cost me deere enough without doubt That which you haue a minde vnto by direction of others is this as I guesse Quam paâ—em quidam in Ecclesia non habentes à Martyribus in carcere exorare consueuêre Which Peace some not enioying within the Church haue beene accustomed to intreat the Martyrs in Prison for it Peace there is Pardon after the African phrase of Tertullian and Saint Cyprian whom you make your second Father to be seene and whose testimony is almost idem numero with Tertullians The meaning of both as Pamelius no Protestant may enforme you was this Those that had fallen in time of persecution to auoide or eleuate the censure of the Church through their great suite and importunitie often procured letters deprecatory to the Bishop and Clergie whereto they were lyable from Consessors such as were emprisoned for the truth whom those Fathers call Martyrs that so at their intreaty and for their confessions famous in the Church the rigour of discipline might be suspended mitigated or determined and they without more adoe be restored vnto the Church Against this custome in breach of discipline Tertullian and especially Cyprian inueigh most bitterly So then take your choyce either these Fathers cannot be seene to affirme for your purpose or if so auoide it if you can your pardons at the first arising vp in the Church were but abuses and as such resisted exclaimed on condemned as irregular and as impious by the Fathers of those times Tertullian and especially Cyprian and so you haue spun a faire threed either way As for Pope Vrban the second make you merry with him much good may his plenary indulgence for the Holy-Land warre and voyage doe you Aske my fellow if I be a thiefe Vrban graunted such Indulgence I confesse So did Gregorie the seauenth his next Predecessor but one first take vpon him to depose Princes and dispose of their Kingdomes by Apostaticall authoritie No man heard of the one before Gregorie nor of the other before Vrban The eldest aboue 1000. yeares after Christ Vrban the eight that now Popeth it may proclaime a Croisado if hee will and iustifie his fact as well as any other but the true reason holdeth not now The World is growne wiser and men loue money too well to be so cheated of it as their fore fathers were to emptie their owne and fill the Popes Coffers by Croisado cousonages But what a Bayard is this to shew such blockish Ignorance being an vndertaker and that with some contumely against the whole Nation of Protestants Wee are told it was Anno Christi 160. as if there were any Holy warres in those times when as Vrban the first if hee were then borne yet certainely was not Pope many yeares after till 224. aboue 60. yeares betweene As for Vrban the second hee sate in Anno 1088. A foule ouer sight in such an vndertaker for the gagging of all Protestants mouthes for euer But somewhat there was in it that the Cat wincked when both her eyes were out Some wiser more learned and skilfull than himselfe had obserued it seemeth that Vrban the second Founder of these pardons was the 160. Pope in order from Saint Peter and this poore Ignaro meaning well to the Cause to aduance the credite thereof by antique vse thought it had bin a thing so auncient as the yeare 160. at least best to vse a Catholique tricke of piae fraudis to let it goe so For honest good Catholiques must belieue what their Instructors say though they teach that the Snow is blacke so are they hood-wincked in implicite Faith And as for Heretiques no matter if they spie it or what they say poore mis-led Proselites either reade not their answeres good cause why or if they reade them will not belieue them though neuer so plaine and euident Therefore Quicquid in buccam these men may say and write any thing no matter what XIIII That the Actions and Passions of Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church MEntiris furcifer a leude lye in imputation of flat impiety They serue for nothing those worthies of Dauid those mightie men of Warre Holy Saint Stephen and his Arriere-ban of valiant Aduenturers in the cause of Christ Iesus that in life and death haue so glorified God and set vp that bloudy banner of our Redemption displayed on the battlements of Death and Hell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Indeede this was the power of that omnipotent God not to be vttered by the tongue of men which did so inable them vnto such performings saith Iustine himselfe one of that Societie They are our Crowne and our exceeding great reioycing We boast of them and of their noble acts wee commemorate their worths in our common seruice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 said Nazianzen I take it or Basil one of the two and wee take vp that saying whose soeuer it was In doing them honour we delight exceedingly We triumph in the bloud they haue shed for our Sauiour Their acts were recorded for imitation that considering their Precedents and worthy performings wee might be incouraged to follow their example 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As springing Wels they supply vs continually saith Clemens Alexandrinus What doe they supply vs with all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with commonifaction to shew our selues religious louers of God though with shedding of our bloud To shew forth our Faith with losse of our liues Witnesses they are so is their name Martyres for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to witnesse Credendorum agendorum sustinendorum recipiendorum Of things to be belieued performed indured receiued saith Bonauenture And are these for nothing vnto the Church Did euer any Protestant say or thinke so
in the mercies of Christ but this being speciall and therefore extraordinary may admit an exception for common vse Therefore in Rom. 3. he speaketh plaine in generall not with that limitation of some Iustification of Faith alone sufficeth albeit a man hath not done any workes As direct a Protestant as euer wrote Caluin or Chemnitius could say no more But in Rom. 5. he is otherwise minded If so what why vrge you the witnesse of him that saith and vnsaith the same thing But it is not so Origen is wronged by you His words are Faith cannot be reputed vnto Iustice to such as beleeue Christ and yet put not off the old man with his Acts. Doe Protestants say it can be We distinguish Historicall and Iustifying Faith You doe difference Faith in Degree if in nothing else Beliefe may be before without Iustification a generall assent without application or adhesion Origen is in this also a perfect Protestant It is their Doctrine That there is a Faith which iustifieth not It is Origens Doctrine absolutely Origen saith Which beleeueth Christ He doth not say Which beleeueth in Christ Thus per omnia in all points he sideth with the Protestants in their Faith concerning Faith as you propose it Secondly see Hilary vpon Math. 7. And doe See him Protestant to thy confirmation See him Papist to thy confusion The saluation of Nations are his words is through faith and in the Precepts of the Lord the life of all men Doth this man speake against the Iustification of a man by Faith that ascribeth saluation vnto Faith And Can. 8. in Math. vnto onely Faith And else-where as he is cited by Cassander A Christo per fidem remissio est quod lex laxare non poterat Fides enim sola Iustificat Remission of sinnes is from Christ which could not be released by the Law For onely Faith iustifieth Saint Ambrose runneth the same way with Origen and Hilary in Comment vpon the Epistle to the Romans Hoc etiam constitutum est à Deo vt qui credit in Christum saluus sit sine opere solâ fide gratis accipiens remissionem peccatorum It is so ordained by God that whosoeuer beleeueth in Christ is made partaker of saluation by faith alone without workes receiuing forgiuenesse of sinnes In conclusion it is confessed vpon all hands by the most lerned in the Church of Rome that many of the ancient Fathers ascribe Iustification vnto Faith alone Casalius in his second Booke and 16. Chapter allayeth their saying and we approue it but implyedly he giueth to vnderstand that Doctores Sancti doe affirme that sola fides iustificat Faith alone is that which iustifieth No new Gospell therefore as this Goose gagleth XIX That no good workes are meritorious IN the former Proposition the Protestants were belyed in the Case of good workes as excluding their necessity vnto Saluation For though Faith alone acted in the act of Iustification yet there necessarily followed in ordinary course an haruest of good workes Now the valew of those workes is next to be questioned in the point concerning merit and desert wherein this Gagger as else-where lyeth out aloofe in ambiguities for he distinguisheth not of workes nor merit nor the termes how farre they are meritorious nor how they deserue what they haue Workes are considered before or after Iustification In the state of Nature or of Grace workes are not all of one kinde There are some good and so farre good as that they cannot be done to any euill end Such as are directed vnto God immediately to honour him to loue him and to feare him Others so euill that no intent or purpose can make them good to commit Adultery doe murther blaspheme God Others good in themselues and in a generality which may yet be done to an ill intent and purpose to giue Almes to be seene of men euill in a generall notion as to goe to the Stewes yet good in the designment to conuert a sinner Others indifferent euery way Now in the Proposition not any of these are meritorious according to the Doctrine of the Protestants saith the Gagger generally Not meritorious what is that Your Schooles assigne vs a two-fold merit of Congruity of Condignity that where Retribution or reward is not due yet conueniency requireth recompensation this where reward is rightly due and the denying thereof is iniustice and wrong vnto the party Here is no distinction of merit at all We are not giuen to vnderstand whether is intended Merit of Condignity or Congruity We know that in the Doctrine of the Romane Schooles and vnlesse wee did know it otherwise this fellow would not tell vs. Merit of Congruity is not commonly meant as scarce vouchsafed the name of Merit Good workes therefore said to be meritorious are so vnderstood to be ex condigno which that a worke may so be these Conditions are required That it bee morally good Freely wrought by man in this life In the state of Grace and friendship with God which hath annexed Gods Promise of Reward All which Conditions I cannot conceiue that any Protestant doth deny vnto good workes the fruits of Faith liuely and liuing For first euill workes are rewardable but with due desert that is Gods wrath and second death Worke s secondly of compulsion are not worth Gramercy 1 Cor. 9. 17. and thirdly after death working doth cease In the state of Grace to be wrought is the Protestants Tenent that precisely hold first Faith is necessary before good workes can be acceptable to God For God had first respect to Abel say they and afterward vnto his Sacrifice Deus non habet gratum offerentem propter munera sed munera propter offerentem saith Gregor hom 9. in Ezech. and then they maintaine that as God doth Crowne his owne workes in vs so he doth it hauing promised so to doe This is your owne Doctrine in the Romane Schooles And so farre the Protestants for these Conditions goe along with you Now if your Texts doe contrary this expresly or obliquely looke you to it it concerneth you as much as vs. First Math. 5. 12. Reioyce and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in Heauen Reward you say is due debt and debt is vpon desert But this desert whence came it and what is it Ex gratia ipsius saith Tertullian non proprietate nostrâ In the state of Grace men onely merit your selues teach then all their merit is of Grace As of Grace so ex compacto God hath promised therefore due to be required This is your fift and last Condition vnto merit Reward in Heauen no man denyeth Reward appointed for our good workes all confesse If this be your merit we contradict it not And this is your merit that you plead for All your Texts of Scripture Math. 10. 42. 2 Cor. 5. 10. 1 Cor. 9. 17. 18. 25. Heb. 11. 26. Psal 18. 20. and many moe in the same course and kinde speake directly this way and no other
peccare nequid 〈…〉 deterius fiat Salomon denique Saul caeteri multi quam diu in vijs Domini ambulauerunt datam sibi gratiam tenere potuerunt recedente ab ijs disciplinâ Dominica recessit gratia Goulartius here talketh to no purpose in the Cloudes totally or finally it skilleth not the Grace of God departed away from them therefore they lost their Faith in Saint Cyprians iudgement by which they stood at first in Gods fauour And in Nazianzens too who writeth thus of Saul in his Apologie vnto his Father Pag. 37. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Annoynted hee was and made partaker of the holy Spirit and then at that time was Spirituall I dare not speake otherwise of him Nay more then so hee prophecyed And yet for all that because hee suffered not himselfe to be wholy and entirely directed by the Spirit nor became perfectly and sincerely another man what neede I relate the Tragicall end which hee vnder-went Saint Hierome forsaketh not his Masters direction Lib. 2. aduersus Pelagianos Ne beatum dixeris quempiam ante mortem Quamdiù enim viuimus in certamine sumus quamdiù in certamine nulla est certa victoria Call no man happy vntill he be dead So long as we liue wee are to striue and contend so long as there is opposition against vs so long we are not assured of the victory And else-where against Iouinian he teacheth that vntill a man repent Faith is cast off by sinne and the party in disfauour with God Saint Augustine proposeth it as an Article of his Creede de Corrept gratiâ 13. Credendum est quosdam de filijs perditionis non accepto dono perseuer andi vsque in finem in fide quae per dilectionem operatur incipere viuere aliquandiù fideliter iustè viuere posteà cadere neque de hac vitâ priusquam eis id contingat auferri And againe Ad quam vocationem pertinere nullus est homo ab hominibus certâ asseueratione dicendus nisi cum de hoc saecule exierit In hac autem vitâ humanâ quae tentatio est super terram qui videtur stare videat ne cadat And lastly Gregory Lib. 6. in primum Regum Quia Iudicium omnipotentis Dei imperscrutabile est vnde veniat quo vadat homo nescit quia sciri non potest an quis in gratia quam recepit perseuerare in perpetuum debeat Because the Iudgements of GOD Almighty are vnsearchable man doth not know either whence hee commeth or whether hee goeth because it cannot be knowne whether a man shall euer stand without falling in that Grace which hee hath receiued It was a Stoicall paradox grounded vpon their fatall necessity and concatenation of Causes that vertues once had cannot be lost at all Seneca thus in his 50 Epistle Semel tradidi boni possessio perpetua est Non dediscitur virtus Fideliter sedent quae in locum suum veniunt Good once had is held for euer in possession Vertue is not againe to bee learned For what thing soeuer hath obtained the proper place resteth therein without alteration If any such necessity be inferred by any it is but opinion not decision priuate opinion not publique resolution which a man may follow or abandon at pleasure not to be blamed for resolution So or so In course of Christianity and seruice of God Finis coronat actus It is the end that crowneth the Act. In mans profession of Loue Feare and Obedience of God Nilâ—praesumitur esse actum dum restat aliquid ad agendum The Law presumeth nothing at all is done so long as resteth any thing to be done Non quid egeris sed quid supersit curandum si dixisti Sufficit Defecisti It is not respected what is already performed by them but what remaineth yet vnfinished If thou say it is enough thou art fallen off and faintest For Leuit 22. Euer the tayle of the whole burnt Offering was offered Many begin to build but doe not all set vp the roofe Many thousands came out of Aegypt but few of them passed ouer Iordan Asa was good till the goâ—te vexed him Ionathan followed the Chace till hee met with Honey Many are good till they haue cause to be badde and then vertunt omnia ad extremum They end in the flesh that begun in the Spirit The Conclusion of all is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A man is not happy so long as hee liueth because it is vncertaine what shall become of him saith Saint Basil vpon the first Psalme These are the resolutions of many if not most Protestant Diuines as priuate men of Protestant Churches in their Decisions and Resolutions I am sure the Church of England doth not tender it to be taught or belieued that Faith had cannot be lost againe Priuate opinions of men are no Gospels of the Church I am of this opinion another is of that I maintaine Faith cannot be lost totally or finally another verily perswadeth himselfe it may be lost both totally and finally Hee that once was in regard of iustifying Faith and Grace the Childe of God may become the Childe of Sinne Wrath Death Hell and Destruction to neither of these doe I subscribe as de fide being vndecided vndetermined in the Church Lei euery man abound in his owne sense and vnderstanding what is it to mee so be it hee keepe Faith Peace Charitie and a good Conscience The very Church of Geneua it selfe as I was told by one of the chiefe Ministers thereof doth not maintaine these priuate opinions of the principall Pastors of that Church So that what honesty can there be in this rambling Companion who ranketh it with the Errours of the Protestants That Faith had cannot be lost Which if it were an errour as I dispute not that is as much or more opposed by Protestants as propugned As much refelled by Protestants as Papists Sir Gagger to let the World see your ignorance or impudency or both I haue laide these parts together out of Protestant Diuines I iustifie no priuate opinions Those that hold the one or other are old enough let them answere for themselues And so I proceede XXI That God by his will ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall bee damned and who saued DAmned and Saued diuide Mankinde Not any hath come forth of the loins of Adam but as this Gaggler will himself confesse is necessarily ranged in one of these Ranks either with the Damned or the Saued Sheep or Goats vpon the left hand or the right But he whosoeuer that is é censa damnandorum vel saluandorum finally and eternally damned or saued as one day actiuely all shall bee is so damned or saued not without God's will according to the purpose of his decree at least consequent though not antecedent who doth whatsoeuer hee will in heauen and earth who worketh all things according to the counsell of his will the highest Rule supremest Law nothing
the Decisions and Edicts of Popes the inquisitors of Heresie and such like inhibitions to the contrary There are publique Resolutions held of all and priuate opinions maintained by some by men particular in their owne Conceits and Societies in a more generall agreement in things indifferent not de fide or if yet of a looser and lower tye and alloy As those are proposed resolued maintained tendred and commanded So the other are free and disputed and questioned not enioyned as de fide or Subscribed because Problematicall and no more If a man should collect the priuate opinions of priuate men which are differences in Schooles among Schollers nay of the Master of Controuersies or of sentences and impute them vnto the Church of Rome the Faith of Rome this Gagger if hee know what to doe and his gagle would refuse them disclaime them thinke themselues wronged proclaime themselues belied as Bellarmine doth often in the like case Ex aequo bono and more maiorum we may doe the like Yet see the honesty of this Imposter against vs in this his poore pamphlet He hath collected together out of C. W. B. and such companions and disposed as it hapned without order or method xlvii seuerall propositions All pretended errours of the Church of England because all contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles and repugnant to Antiquity in the Writings of the Fathers so to fasten Noueltie and Heresie and Impietie vpon our Church Of these xlvii onely viii or ix are the Doctrines of our Church 6. 13. 15. 18. 30. 36. 42. 44. and yet not all these as they are by him abused embeasted confounded and circumscribed The rest are partly left at libertie by the Church not determined for doctrines either way Many imposed by him on the Church are directly disclaimed abandoned oppugned by the Church and the flat contrary to them commended and commanded And accordingly belieued practised and maintained against oppugners A maior part are the meere opinions priuate fancies peculiar propositions of priuate men many of them disclaimed by the very Authors some falsely imputed to their Authors some raked together out of the lay-stals of deepest Puritanisme as much opposing the Church of England as the Church of Rome So that whatsoeuer is in this Gagger is or childishly fancied or ridiculously mistaken or wilfully peruerted or slanderously imputed or maliciously proposed or ambiguously conceiued or not iustified any way as may euidently appeare in the particulars in my answere ensuing In which Whatsoeuer is to be owned by the Church as resolued and tendred and subscribed in the authorised Doctrine or Practise thereof is by mee iustified fully against him and shall be maintained against his betters as not contrary to Antiquitie in the Tradition of the Church much lesse vnto Scriptures in our owne Bibles What is inuolued by him malitiously to procure enuy to the side is explicated and asserted to the proper tenents and termes it is shewed how farre the Church of England resolueth where and what things are left free and vndetermined for men to hold with them or against them Priuate opinions are left vnto their Authors and Abettors olde enough and able enough to speake for themselues In a publique cause as is the Faith of Gods Church peculiar interests that I know haue no such share at least ouer-awing as to commaund vndertaking against opponents In answering of whom to come vnto my course obserued with him which I thought fit in conueniency to let the Reader vnderstand for my owne excuse and iustification I haue gone along with him cap apee and point per point first for his Scriptures both expresse and to be seene then for his Fathers that affirme the same that is nothing to purpose as little as his Scriptures did as I could finde them quoted or could guesse at them by imagining where they mought be probably spoken withall or where I could remember to haue some time left them For our Catholiques Romish secure no question of the goodnes of their cause or rather relying vpon the tractablenesse of their patient Proselytes so they can make a dumbe shew with scoring vp Fathers doe not much trouble themselues with caring where or what they say So this Gagger stood affected it is more than apparant For I was often left to goe blowe the seeke for his Fathers For poore man he tooke them vp as hee could finde them by tale without weight or triall Some few peraduenture in the country abroad but the maior part by farre out of C. W. B. What he is I cannot tell and as hee hath them truely or falsly quoted rightly registred or mistaken so in euery poynt are they in the Gagge vnlesse worse Such supine negligence secure discoursing childish disputing in such a Master in Israel Such infant-like performance in such a Goliah vpon whose head the Philistines haue set vp their rest I speake no more in effect than I haue heard of him since I vndertooke him who can beare Beside the scurrilous fellow according to his breeding and education it seemeth sure I am fitting enough his disposition commeth in with Coblers and Bakers and Tinkers and Tapsters and Hosts and Hostesses and bottles and bottle-ale Insulteth vpon poore Protestants Out of their wits sicke in their wits Prateth of Horses and Asses praying and such like stuffe out of his Coblersshop or Hostesses ale-bench no doubt And who is able to possesse his Soule or containe his pen in patience that hath to doe with such Impostors Mountebankes and Buffones such rake-shames and rakehels as these ramblers are I confesse that subiects of this nature should aboue all be moderately calmely and quietly handled but so if wee meete with moderate men with quiet men with temperate honest and discreet men with men not proiected prostituted and giuen ouer vnto lying calumniating traducing of all that concurre not with them as this companion and his comerades are who haue no intent to make vp any ruines or decayed places in the Church to heale the sores cure the wounds mollifie the swellings cleanse out the empostumations in the mysticall body of Christ that ayme not at peace nor would procure vnity nor any way indeauour that those who professe Gods holy name may agree in the truth of his holy word and liue in vnity and godly loue but make their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their whole indeauour their speciall study day and night by all kinde of iniquity to keepe a faction on foot and maintaine opposition euen where it needeth not Such are to be curryed in their kinde and to be rubbed as they deserue in no case to be smoothed or sleeked ouer lest they please themselues too well in their impiety It was euer held lawfull to call a spade a spade Saint Paul gaue not Elimas any gentle termes nor did Saint Peter speake butter and hony vnto Simon Magus Our Sauiour himselfe that man of meekenesse called Herod a Fox and Iudas a Deuil when they deserued it
wee must relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and her Pastors There be moe Pastors in the Church then the Pope though he be granted first he is not all There be moe Churches then his Church what hath Pope Vrban one man to doe with Pastors with the Church but that which wee know well enough by Pastors and Church in conclusion you meane the Pope I could interpret Saint Anselme well enough as that if a Controuersie were referred by the Church or an Heresie to be corrected in the Church which touched the case of the Catholicke Church it could not be put ouer more fitly to any one man by the Church representatiue in a Councel then vnto the Pope first Bishop of Christendome of greatest not absolute power amongst Bishops But I know your Saint Anselme well enough This was not his meaning he was partiall post natus not fit to speake in this cause nor amongst the Fathers A great Bishop I grant him He was Archbishop of Canterbury no great Doctor but respectiuely considering the barbarous times in which hee liued farre from being one of the ancient Fathers or their grand-child He liued in the dayes of King Henry the first and was a factionist for Pope Vrban his good Lord and Master So aske my fellow if I be a thiefe your bottle-ale Hostesse where you vse it seemeth to meete in Partridge alley with your gossips is well enough acquainted with these passages and can tell you as much as Saint Anselme could if an Heretick aske her who is Supreame ale-canner on Earth shee will answer no doubt why who but his holinesse In this case I beleeue them both alike as good reason for one as for other Sure yours are no better then those Corkes with which your Hostesse vseth to stop her bottles but agree as you can you and your Hostesse we proceede to the next Proposition III. That Apostolicall traditions and ancient customes of the holy Catholique Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs THis is also contrary to the expresse words of our owne Bibles How wherefore we shal see when we can In the interim thus wee draw on Traditions are of two Sorts in the writings of Antiquity as the word is ambiguous of two significations There are Traditions writteÌ„ improperly so called and there are Traditions vnwritten deliuered from hand to hand The name is sometime applyed to the one and sometime attributed to the other you meane not here Traditions written I know it no more doe we we agree to take it of vnwritten Traditions in opposition vnto Scripture as where Tertullian speaketh in his Book de coronâ militis thus Scripturam nullam invenies Traditio tibi praetenditur euictrix Scripture for this you can finde none the originall came from Tradition Traditions are considered Originally in their Authors Christ the Apostles the Church priuatemen which haue their authority more or lesse answerable to the worth of their Originals Againe they are considered materially in regard of what they treat of what they containe whereof they are of Orders Rights practices opinions in common vse and custome amongst men Traditions instituted by our Sauiour euen in points of beliefe Faith haue Diuine authority as his written word hath Traditions deriued from the Apostles haue equall authority with their Preachings and their writings I approue that processe of the Controuersor The authority of Gods Word is not because it is written but because it commeth from God Traditions of the Church haue such authority as the Church hath all binde and oblige as they were intended and as their extent is For they must be considered not onely from the Author but from the End Some were intended to be Permanent others onely to be transient for a Time onely or else for euer Some vniuersall some onely Partiall for the Catholique or else a priuate Church Such variety and difference is in Traditions which this Hudler confoundeth to deceiue his Nouice with indistinctions Now the question is not whether there be Traditions or haue beene heretofore we doe grant it in euery kinde that either there are or haue beene Traditions of Christ his Apostles the Church priuate men The question is not of what authority they are we grant their authority is from and as the Authors but the question is of their Credit and Extent First whether the pretended Traditions of Christ and his Apostles were indeed so ordained or deriued as they are pretended or rather counterseits and suppositions Proue them true vndoubted and we rise vp vnto them Secondly to what ends they were instituted whether to last and indure euer or for a time whether to supply the defects of Scripture not else sufficient for the end This we denye for it is our Position that the written Word of God without vnwritten Traditions is perfect and absolute and sufficient for the end whereto it was intended To make the man of God absolute in euery good worke Abuse not your selues nor your Proselites here slander not nor belye vs giue vs any Tradition of Christ or his Apostles giue vs good euidence for what you say goe proue it conuincingly to haue come from them by Scripture Fathers consent of Antiquity can you aske any more and we receiue it with both our armes as Gods holy Word and Institution Quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ab Apostolis praecepta benè traduntur quanquam scripta non reperiantur Though I finde it not vpon record in Scripture yet I receiue it as proceeding from the Apostles if the vniuersall Church imbrace it said Saint Augustine and I subscribe vnto it bring vs any such Tradition so accepted so receiued so commended and you shall see wee will reuerence it as much as you or more but if you giue me copper in stead of gold pardon me if I beleeue you not nor receiue it for pay Ecclesiasticall constitutions are moe more certaine of the same authority with the Churches written Lawes which binde generally if made for generall obligation or else particularly if they haue but locall and confined limitation omni modo bind they doe vnto obedience so long in such sort so farre forth as the authors did intend till the same authority disaâ—ow them which gaue vnto them being at the first In the 34. Article to this purpose wee reade of and concerning Ecclesiasticall Traditions It is not necessary that Traditions and ceremonies be in all places one or vtterly like for that at all times they haue beene diuers and may be changed according to diuersities of Countries times and mens manners So that nothing be ordained against Gods word Your Catholique cares be they round or long cannot be offended with this position I thinke Whosoeuer through his priuate iudgement willingly and purposely doth openly breake the Traditions and ceremonies of the Church which be not repugnant vnto the word of God and be ordained and approued by common authoritie ought to be rebuked openly that others may
ciuill state of men but which doe also touch Religion and Piety Thus he so we in our Profession ouer all persons in all causes Not In all Causes alone and singular as you traduce vs. Hoc posito Now see wee your Texts of Scripture contrary to this in our owne Bibles 1 Tim. 2. 11. Let the woman learne in silence with all subiection Therefore a woman heire or otherwise cannot be Gouernour in her Realmes Doe you thinke that the Lady Infanta no Protestant Princesse will be so confinde because shee may not say Masse nor speake in the Congregation therefore as Dutchesse of Burgundy or Countesse of Flaunders may shee not meddle with the State Marke your owne words But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to vsurpe authority ouer the man Therefore shee cannot be supreame Gouernesse Let Catholicke Ladies looke to this Such Fellowes if they had their due would haue their mouthes gag'd with an halter I their tongues cut out and cast to Dogges If this were intended by Saint Paul I maruell why the Eunuch returning home into Ethiopla did not put downe Candace from being Queene If you take it not as you speake it for Equiuocators say one thing and meane another generally of all authority nor yet of any subiection but as Saint Paul restraineth it onely to Teaching and speaking in the Church we subscribe vnto you wee are of the same minde with you we say the same thing that you doe but then wee call your honesty into question and affirme you deale perfidiously with vs in belying vs and falsly with your Proselites in seducing them Did euer any Allen or Saunders or Parsons or Kellison heare Queene Elizabeth Preach Did euer any see her administer the Sacraments take vpon her to expound Scripture appoint Faith or denounce Excommunication Shee claimed and might and had authority commanding coerciue coactiue ouer Church-men Did shee euer challenge or vse it or was it giuen her in Church-seruice as Saint Tecla did and Saint Katherine of Siena in your Legends as Pope Ioane did if there sate such a strumpet in Saint Peters Chayre as Prioresses and Abbesses haue and exercise by your Canon Law or with Dispensations An Abbatesse may command the Priests that are subiect to her to excommunicate her rebelling Nunnes and the Priests are bound to obey her So Tabiena Armilla Panormitane Astensis The Canonists are of this minde saith Stephanus de Aluin that the dignity of Prelacy and excellency of Office may giue to Ecclesiasticall women therefore howsoeuer to women spirituall and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction which they may enioy not onely by right delegated and committed vnto them but by ordinary also Now good Sir Gagger how digest you this good Catholicke Doctrine gaue wee euer so much to Queene Elizabeth Is this according to your Bibles or are your Bibles and ours not the same That of 1 Cor. 14. 34. is not cited according to our Bibles of the last Transation which you yet pretend to follow and howsoeuer cited it is not to purpose onely it discloseth your leud demeanor Saint Paul forbiddeth women to speake or teach in Churches so doe we And in conuenticles also you may see it inquirable presentable punishable in our visitations if any such presume to expound or interpret Scripture in priuate Houses You may sooner heare Pope Vrban preach then any Woman with vs to execute any function Ecclesiasticall who with you doe ordinarily baptize For satisfaction to poore misled Catholikes in this point if yet they will be satisfied take the resolution of our Church Art 37. The Queenes Maiesty it was made you know in Queene Elizabeths time hath the chiefe power in this Realme of England and other her Dominions vnto whom the chiefe gouernement of all Estates of this Realme whether they be Ecclesiasticall or ciuill in all causes doth appertaine and is not nor ought to be subiect to any forraigne iurisdiction 2. Where wee attribute to the Queenes Maiestie the chiefe gouernment by which titles wee vnderstand the mindes of some slanderous folke to be offended wee giue not to our Princes the ministring either of Gods Word or of the Sacraments The which iniunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queene doe most plainly testifie But that onely prerogatiue which wee see to haue beene giuen alwayes to all godly Princes in holy Scriptures by God himselfe that is that they should rule all estates and degrees committed vnto their charge by God whether they be Ecclesiasticall or temporall and restraine with the Ciuill Sword the stubborne and euill doers This is all that Queene Elizabeth had or challenged Publike Records publike notice publike testimony of the State and all that then liued are of greater credit I hope with all moderate and honest Romish Catholikes then the leud lying aspersions of a partiall Factionist such as this Fellow is and many of his companions are who haue taken vp this course as of inheritance and kinde to dare say any thing in despight of honesty and truth in ordine ad Deum for the Catholicke cause X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist THat Antichrist was to come and so prophecied of that he is called That man of sinne is in my Creed and an Article of my Beliefe as being plainly and directly expressed such in Scripture And this I know no Protestant but beleeueth But whether he was to be One particular man or a State a succession opposite to Christ I know no Article Canon or Iniunction that tyeth mee to beleeue The Church of England leaueth me to my opinion Euery man may abound in his owne sence and beleeue it or not beleeue it as he will For who dareth peremptorily define what God himselfe hath not but left at liberty The Fathers I grant runne most vpon one man So doe your Masters of the Roman Church The Protestant Writers doe most of them encline rather to a Succession and a state of men but not all Not all so peremptorily as not to encline notwithstanding vnto one man who more then any of his rank shall oppose himselfe to Christ in that state and Succession Antichristian vnto whom all those markes and descriptions set downe in holy Scripture shall perfectly agree as Zanchius and many others doe hold For in point of Prophecie and that so obscure as this vntill plaine euent doe make it manifest iudgements doe and may well sauing the peace of the Church vary nor should wee condemne or censure Dissenters any way from our priuate opinions Whether the Pope bee that Antichrist or not the Church resolueth not tendreth it not to be beleeued any way Some I grant are very peremptory too peremptory indeed that he is He for instance that wrote and printed it I am as sure that the Pope is Antichrist that Antichrist spoken of in Scripture as that Iesus Christ is God But they that are so resolute peremptory and certaine let them answere for themselues they
we goe see in Irenaeus Or in Tertullian who in his Booke de poenitentia I must supply the Chapter you had forgot it or else could not tell it Cap. 4. blameth some that through bashfulnesse would not confesse but where or to whom he telleth not Happily he meant it of Confession vnto God For almost instantly before he hath these words Quâ delictum nostrum Domino confitemur To God notto man and Delictum the sinne that lyeth close that presseth downe that disquieteth vs in Conscience not Delicta our sinnes by enumeration But passe it for priuate Confession to a Priest Tertullian vrgeth it no farther then for conueniency and draweth it vp no higher then Delictum Euery way conspiring with the Protestants who mislike not Confession nay approue it vnto men who condemne not Absolution but approue it enioyne it though not with that rigour as Romanists doe and approue Saint Ambrose counsell well Confesse freely vnto the Priest the hidden secrets of thy soule If yet it be the counsell of Saint Ambrose For Plagiary as you be did you not here mistake your Authour and Father that ignorantly vpon Saint Ambrose which Bellarmine telleth you was the aduise of Gregory Nyssen Orat in mulierem peccatricem Such grosse Bayardismes in so insolent a Bard are intollerable Saint Ambrose hath no such Booke de muliere peccatrice 2 de paenitent 6. He exhorteth to repentance but not a word of Confession vnto a Priest many confessing vnto God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times IN the Apostles times no nor yet many hundreds of yeeres since their times Such Pardons as commence in the Apostolicall Chauncery such as Tecelius dispersed in Germany others in other Countries are impious irreligious prophane and sacrilegious coosnage an imposture of Merchants that trade for the Diuell that chaffer Heauen and happinesse for the reward of iniquity The first mouing cause of Luthers rising vp and taking Armes against the Church of Rome Bellarmine and Baronius those grand Dictators and vndertakers for the Papacy faile in proofes of this nouelty and what can such a puny as this fellow performe Yet let vs see his best endeauours and fairest shewes because with Catholikes euery Pismire is a Potentate as euery Goose a Swan Contrary no doubt to our own Bibles we denie them For 2 Cor. 2. 10. S. Paul remembreth them thus To whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also c. You must know that are to learne The Corinthian that had married his Fathers wife was for his incest Excommunicated and put to penance by the Apostle as appeareth 1 Cor. 5. 3. Well what when why here he giueth order for his Pardon This is not denied vpon any hand The Protestants beleeue the Scriptures more then Papists will doe Why but these two places compared are a plaine proofe of the Apostles power of punishing and of pardoning They are it is granted Therefore Pardons were in vse in the Apostles time Is any Asse so ignorant as to say nay Long before the Apostles time they were in vse Long before Moses or Abrahams daies Can a man with patience here this Animall thus bray I suppose there is no Roman Catholique beside himselfe so sencelesse as to imagine Protestants beleeue or teach That no offender was pardoned in the Apostles times That the Apostles had no power or wanted will to accept any Contrite and Penitent into the Church Ingenuous Romane Catholikes can you brooke the wittall thus to babble Pardons were in vse then after before but Pardons no more like the Pardons hee meaneth or should maintaine then Simon the Sorcerer was to Simon the Tanner or Stephen the Deacon to Stephen Gardiner or this goose gagger vnto an honest man 2 Cor. 2. 6. In the same case vpon the same person the Apostle saith Sufficient to such a ma 〈…〉 his punishment And therefore he forgaue what remained of his punishment not yet fulfilled So that there passed an Indulgence for his farther durance There did no doubt We willingly yeeld it and take it for a warrant against Nouatian Puritanisme for a ground vnto the Discipline of the Church whose practice in Discipline is established Art 33. It is in the hands of the spirituall Magistrates to measure the time of such punishment or penance imposed Let your Pardons be no otherwise and we quarrell them not Let them stay vpon the liuing in foro fori and not meddle with pardoning the dead for money nor yet coosen the liuing by false Coynes out of the supposed Treasures of the Church and no opposition will be vnto Pardons granted no though sold in externall Courts abroad For the faults of men shall not be imputed vnto the Discipline by vs if that were rectified as it ought to be But the man is conscious to the foulenesse of his Cause and prophane Roman marting and therefore attireth a prostituted Strumpet in the habit of a graue Matron Popish pardons and Indulgences so prophane and enormious are passed vnder the names of those things with which they haue no more affinity then in name which the Prince of the Apostles of the Lambe had with the first begotten of the Diuell Pardons and Pardons Simon and Simon homonym 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 s. For the Doctrine and Practice of the Church for Repentance in Excommunication Contrition Confession Satisfaction Restitution Absolution is according vnto Piety and the rule of Faith in those that haue sinned and are restored but in the Church of Rome thus it goeth They imagine a treasure in the Church compounded together out of the satisfactions of Christ and his Saints which Treasure so composed is in the hands say they of the Pope and other Prelates vnder locke and key safe enough from purloining to be disposed and dispenced as they shall thinke good to whom they will open and communicate it more or lesse which is euer Danti for Giff-gaff is a good fellow to none else and answerable to his purchase much or little Plus or minus danti as his meanes are For in euery good worke there is Merit and Satisfaction Merit is Personall not Transitiue nor yet Communicable but Satisfaction is and may be imparted Because Satisfaction is onely for a Temporary paine which is often more and greater then Iustice or right for the offence exacteth So that God in Iustice requiring but Proportion the ouer-plus in remainder is laide vp in store against time of neede and drawen forth for vse when mens purses are flush then not till then to be soueraignly applyed vnto the purchaser not payer This premised to your Scriptures and ancient Fathers Find you any such Pardon in Saint Paul foreprised or Indulgence imparted vpon those termes The Corinthian was restored without a Bul a Bishops Seale a Commissaries direction vnto the Parson He payed no rate nor fees for Restitution or standing rectus in Curiâ No Treasure of the Church was applyed vnto him Vpon his hearty repentance and
beyond it against it without it So Damned or Saued are so ordained by God Whatsoeuer God willeth commeth to passe and whatsoeuer commeth to passe commeth so to passe because God hath said So and not otherwise it shall come to passe either positiuely by disposing it or else permissiuely by giuing way and suffering it so to come to passe as it doth come to passe This his will as nor himself began not in time it is and was eternall as he is euer I am not I will be or haue bin Whatsoeuer is done in processe of time was so seen so disposed of and ordered before all Time for he is not measured but by Eternity which is Tota simul perfecta possessio sui The totall and perfect possession of it self If then there bee Damned and Saued as there are God's eternall will did so determine of them their finall estate from all Eternity and after that determination of God they are damned or saued ineuitably not onely according vnto Prescience but also according to Predestination say the Roman schools in which this Fellow would seem to haue sent some idle houres after their fleeing Predecessors What then Why surely the poore man meant well to the Catholique Cause and would say somewhat though no matter what which he did not vnderstand nor could vtter He thought well though he could not handsomly tell his Tale which should haue been marshald thus That God by his sole will and absolute decree hath irrespectiuely resolued and ineuitably decreed some to be saued some to be damned from all Eternity Man in curiosity hath presumed farre vpon and waded deep into the hidden Secrets of the Almighty no-where more or with greater Presumption than where that grand Apostle stood at gaze with O the depth and in consideration cried out How vnsearchable are his waies who yet was admitted into Councell of State and rapt vp into the third heauen In the point of Election for Life and Reprobation vnto Death Protestants and Papists are many wayes at oddes in opposition and each diuided at home amongst themselues not for the Thing which all resolue but for the Manner in which they differ agreeing in the Main that It is so disagreeing on the By How it cometh so as if God meant to reserue no Secrets vnto himself but impart them all to men as if it were not enough to saue some and cast others off but he must giue account of dooing so Some Protestants and no mo but some haue considered God for this effect of his will in reference to Peter and Iudas thus that Peter was saued because that God would haue him saued absolutely and resolued to saue him necessarily because hee woâ—ld so and no further that Iudas was damned as necessarily because that God as absolute to decree as om 〈…〉 ipotent to effect did primarily so resolue concerniâ—g him and so determine touching him without respect of any thing but his owne will insomuch that Peter could not perish though he would nor Iudas be saued doo what he could This is not the doctrine of the Protestants the Lutherans in Germany detest and abhorre it It is the priuate fansie of some men I grant but what are Opinions vnto Decisions priuate Opinions vnto receiued and decided doctrines The Church of England hath not taught it doth not beleeue it hath opposed it wisely contenting herself with this Quoúsque and Limitation Art 17. We must receiue God's promises in such wise as they be generally set forth to vs in holy scripture and not presuming to determine of When How Wherfore or Whom Secrets reserued to God alone So this Goose the Gagger may put his Gag into the Bils of many of his owne Gaggle as well as into others Lagges who presume as farre and wander as wide sometime as they do though more couertly in their tearms Our Bible in expresse words saith what we beleeue it teacheth not contrary to that which is resolued in the Church of England the positiue doctrine wherof is no other but what this Wittall confirmeth out of Scripture that God at the beginning made not death as Wisd 1. 13. because she hath learned out of S. Paul that Through sinne death came into the world whereof God was neither Aurthor nor Abettor but Hee the Father of lies a Lier a Murderer from the beginning in procuring the Fall of man Sinne being entred and by sinne death and so all mankinde in the Masse of perdition God fitted and prepared a Restorer a Mediator the Man Christ Iesus that so Whosoeuer beleeued in him should not perish but haue euer lasting life out of his mercy both free and meer because he was not willing that any should perish but all should come vnto Repentance as 2. Pet. 3. 9. and be saued So large was his Mercy so enlarged his Loue that out of his good pleasure it was his will All men to bee saued and to come to knowledge of the Truth Shew a contrary resolution of the Church of England and gag vp my mouth Sir Goose for euer else goe gaggle on the Green For particular opinions So or so aetatem habent let them speak for themselues and so be it they rent not the peace of the Church let them abound in their priuate senses I nor teach nor beleeue any such Paradox nor the Church whereof I am and you should be a Member positiuely Wee need see no more except to more purpose the places are adrem but touch not vs. They speak home and to purpose which they should declare but we are not interest in opposition Vrge them against those who do vndertake to maintain that men are damned necessarily See Fathers we may but wee shall not need wee beleeue what they should say and go hand in hand with what they doo say dogmatically but see them all we cannot if we would vnlesse we would go seek when we need not and if wee would might blowe the seeke for some of them and after long search be neuer the neer in finding them For Saint Augustine what or where wil you tell vs or are you able to informe vs that hee affirmeth You mean he affirmeth somewhat in his first Book of the City of God and I knowe he doth more by much than you can report me You haue had some acquaintance with some Particulars there as you met them by chance in your perambulation of some trans-scripts of other mens Notes and haue now forgotten where and what Else what man but such a Scribbler would so loosely in a point of opposition and therefore like enough of examination haue referred vs to Saint Austen in his first Book de Dei Ciuitate Something you would say I knowe not what and therefore till you let me knowe I say nothing to what you haue said I cannot tell how I haue seene and read Tertullian in that place remembred expounding that Petition in our Lords Prayer Lead vs not into temptation who
likely to see The poore man can afford vs no Fathers heere his reading it seemeth would not reach vnto that and his good Masters were not at hand to help him I could furnish him if hee would thank mee to better purpose then his Scriptures haue but want I suppose he will rather then be beholding to a Protestant To conclude wee will not deny him that Euery man hath his Angell-keeper but within the Church at least not rambling abroad Are they not all of them ministring spirits sent forth to minister To whom where Not to euery man vnder heauen but with restriction Who shall be heyres of saluation In offensiue sort against their foes in defensiue manner for their good Thus the Scriptures speake and no otherwise thus the Fathers taught and no otherwise Not Euery man but Euery Christian man at his Birth or at his Baptisme hath his Guardian Angell deputed to him XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. WIth Ly and all Sir Gagger Not pray for vs Now I pray you who saith so No man will say or think so that beleeueth in his Creed The communion of Saints and can tell what connexion of the two parts of the Church of the Redeemed there is the one militant heere in Earth the other Regnant and Triumphant in Heauen Now a principall part of that Communion and Society which they haue with vs is to recommend our state and necessities vnto God our Father To which end God Almighty hath as wee professe in our Collect vpon Michaelmas Day appointed the Seruice of men and Angels in a wonderfull sort But somewhat there was or the man mistook Their Praying for vs may bee considered two waies either in Generall or in Particular For the peace of Sion the prosperity of Ierusalem the state and condition of the Church militant in earth thus in generall For Manasses in Captiuity Hezechiah beleaguered by Senacherib For this man or that man in particular vpon speciall motiues and occasions and that likewise two waies either ordinarily and of common course or specially by Delegation in extraordinary seruice Now this Proposition Holy Angels pray for vs doth not limit nor explaine the tearmes but is ambiguous as this peddler most an end frameth all in his Pack to calumniate and to deceiue Whether All Angels pray for All men or All for some men or some for all or some for some who can tell that was not of counsell to his pen and purpose As it lyeth lurking in fraudulent tearmes I can answere both waies and contradictory waies First Holy Angels pray not for vs and truly too Nor shall this Goose hiscere against my answere viz. Not euery holy Angell in speciall for euery man in particular Not at all times vpon any or all occasions I can also answer and truly too Holy Angels pray for vs. And so this Gagger may goe shoo the Goose That is It is a principall part of their performance in Heauen as they magnifie their Maker eternally so to recommend vnto Him vncessantly the Estate and good beeing of the Church of the Redeemed as yet in great Tribulations I adde yet further At all times some of them pray for the particular estate of some priuate Men Cities States Societies or Countries And the Holy Angell-keepers for their speciall charges commended vnto their trust by God at sometime some of them for all for some vpon special occasion employment or designation as extraordinarily they may and doe vndertake Now to come home to your loose laxe affirmation Your expresse words in our Bible are not so expresse as to speake to your purpose that of Zachar. 1. 9. 10. runneth thus O Lord of hosts how long wilt thou net haue mercy vpon Ierusalem and on the Cities of Iuda against which thou hast had indignation these 70 yeeres For it followeth not because this one Angell prayed for Ierusalem in Captiuity any Angel doth pray for any or euery man This was extraordinary your supposall must bee ordinary This was occasionall for his employment your Angels must not bee so allotted Happely this was their Angell-Guardian Michael Prince of the Synagogue Pleade thus for Angell-keepers none will gayn-say you They pray for vs no question at all This was in a peculiar case for restoring Ierusalem and Iuda according to promise in appointed time 70 yeeres designed by the Prophets So the question was idle like your selfe Whether this were not a Prayer The question well ordred should haue beene Whether All Angels at all times doe not in particular pray for euery particular man as this Angell heere did for Sion To the former wee answere positiuely Yea to the second negatiuely No. Nor can this instance euict that Tobie 12. 12. Raphael telleth Tobias thus When thou didst pray and Sara thy daughter-in-law I did bring the remembrance of your praiers before the Holy One. First what an Addle-head are you that trump in the Protestants way with this Testimony which your Masters can tell you for happely your ignorance knoweth not so much they esteem of no otherwise than a Talmudicall Tale Secondly how can you accord this Tale with your owne Tenents Raphael both speaketh heer as their Angell-keeper and carrieth himself so in that whole negotiation Raphael was of the highest Hierarchy next to Michael and Gabriel in your account Your selues teach that Angels of that Hierarchie are not Custodes nor imploied vnto men but all imployed ordinarily are of the inferiour and lowest rank Riddle me riddle mee what is this You told vs of one that could vntie knots let him vntie this or cut it in pieces for it troubleth vs not a little That Angell Reuel 8. 4. from whose hands the smoke of incense ascended which is expressed to haue been the prayers of Saints who was he can you tell mee whether the Angell of the Couenant Christ Iesus himself or Michael the Protector of the Church do you knowe or some other Angell are you assured Was his imployment ordinary or extraordinary can any tell Mysticall you may be sure this Passage is and can you draw Arguments from such Testimonies Your great vnderstanding doth happely think Yea the common resolution is for Nay But howsoeuer the praiers of all Saints that is of the Church were offred to God in the hands of an Angell their Mediator therefore All Angels pray for all men or some Angels for some men ordinarily I deny the necessity of this doctrine When you say more you shall heare further but much more I beleeue you cannot for you fail of your wonted Cue See more and See Fathers that affirm it neither Scripture nor Fathers heer In Conclusion from whence drew you forth this imputation that The holy Angels pray not for vs For Bellarmine your Polstar and Cynosura in point of Controuersie doth confesse It is not denied that Sancti and so Angell orant pro nobis saltem in genere secundum Scriptur as And those that assent as most doo aâ— the
of the Sonne of man and drink his bloud you haue no life in you Lo without drinking no life euerlasting then poore deceiued Papists what will become of you you shall perish in your sinnes though your bloud shall bee required at the hands of your ignorant or rather deceitufll guides that thus mis-leade you from Christs Institution Luk. 24. 30 35. Christ at Emmaus communicated his disciples vnder one kinde Two things are insisted on out of these words as it appeareth by the laying downe First that this was actio sacra a Communion of the Body of our Sauiour then that it was done vnder one kinde this is taken as granted because there is no mention of drinking of Wine there is made mention of breaking the Bread Ignorants and wilfull take things amisse an ordinary Hebrew phrase it is in the Scriptures to eat bread to break bread for to eat and drink to take a refection or repast This man imagineth that all their meales were sicca conuiuia altogether without any liquor nor Wine nor Water vsed though in hot countries Such a foole would haue no other answer made vnto him but as Arisotle would haue made to him that should deny motion or that hee should neuer drink at his meales the best answer could possibly be made vnto him That it was actio sacra and not communis our Sauiour did celebrate the Communion of his Body and Bloud though I know it is controuerted for my part I will not contend at present I know it is held so by Augustine Theophylact and I adde too Beda and Hierome with others but take heede of the Precedent for if hee communicated onely Bread then I know not what vse of Wine at all there will bee in the blessed Sacrament For these were peraduenture of his Apostles but without all question of his Disciples and so had interest in the Cup if any had at all See more wee cannot Acts 2. 42. then we haue seene already mention made of breaking of Bread which is not exclusiue from drinking of Wine no more then 1. Cor. 11. 13. drinking doth exclude eating at all Poore shifts for Sacriledge and impiety of late made an Article of faith in the Church of Rome He that instituted the one ordained the other ioyntly both and at the same time with all circumstances alike if any aduantage is it is for Drink not for Eat For Drink you all of this saith the Author of the Sacrament hee saith not expresly Eat you all of this as foreseeing that impiety which in time humane presumption should bring-in vpon and against his owne institution fulfilled in the Church of Rome at this day XXXVII That Sacramental vnction is not to bee vsed to the sick VSe it if you will wee hinder you not nor much care or enquire what effects ensue vpon it but obtrude it not on vs or vnto the Church as in Censu of the Sacraments of the time of Grace as Baptisme is held and the Lords Supper Visible signes of inuisible Grace Powerfull instruments ordained by God to work in our Soules eternall Life by conueighing the meanes thereof vnto them Sacramental vnction call it if you please so farre as in the writings of the antient Fathers all Articles peculiar vnto our Christian faith and beliefe are sometime called Sacraments all duties of religious piety vnto God all diuine and Ecclesiasticall ceremonies are named Sacraments in which sense you might reckon not seuen but seuenscore if you were disposed to make a search for Sacraments In the Apostolicall and Primitiue Church it was a custome to anoint the sick with oyle to pray ouer them and so commit them vnto God This Saint Iames remembreth 5. 4. Is any sick among you Let him call for the Elders of the Church and let them pray ouer him anointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord. The Apostle doth not call it a Sacrament Sacramentall vnction as the Thesis proposeth and which is that should bee expresly prooued Our Bibles say the sick were anointed but not our Bibles nor theirs doe say that this anointing was a Sacrament And Fathers wee are not sent to see that proue it so the place is not to purpose as it is proposed Mar. 6. 13. is a Text defacto They anointed with oyle many that were sick and healed them but de iure there is not a word in that Text whether yea or no this Anointing should bee a Sacrament The Master of controuersies confesseth himselfe that it is not accorded whether in this Text or not Sacramentall vnction was instituted and himselfe is of opinion that it is not grounding on the resolution of the Councell of Trent to which all Papists are tyed to subscribe and yeeld and how dare you bring this as a proofe Now say the truth Sir Goose and shame the diuell How plain are these Texts that set your great Directors together by the ears Where were your sick wits that did not aduise you Take heed of falling foule with the Councel of Trent the cynosura of your faith Sure they were made of the pappe of an apple so easily they squeeze themselues out to nothing your great Dictators haue found hitherto but one direct Text Iames 5. 4. can we think your sharp sight should spy out three more a Fox or a Fearne-bush somewhat or nothing for Mat. 16. 18. Acts 28. 8. nor oyle nor vnction is remembred bare imposition of hands vpon the sick and diseased so that wee stand in some possibility heerafter to haue added an eightth Sacrament to the former seauen XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy orders THis indeed is contrary vnto the expresse words of our Bible and therefore directly contrary to our Opinion Doctrine and Practice Can this fellowe bee so ignorant as not to know or rather so impudent as to deny that in giuing of holy orders we vse those memorable formall words of our Sauiour Receiue the holy Ghost Was euer man made Minister in the Church of England but in that sort with that forme Can hee deny that wee not onely practise it but propugne it command it to bevsed enquire of and punish the neglect opposition and contempt thereof What shall wee say to such a base detracting Varlet as shameth not in view of heauen and earth to deny the Sun shineth at noone-day Romane Catholiques I admire your patience that suffer such Hog-rubbers to leade you by the nose and make you beleeue the snowe is black Poore deceiued Soules trust no such Merchants that would sell you to the diuell for a morsell of bread and make you stand out vpon tearms of Separation for their owne aduantages against the Church as Schismaticks in which you liue and haue beene baptized XXXIX That Priests and other religious Persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes TOuching marriage of Ministers this is our Doctrine resolued
descended not into hell nor deliuered thence the soules of the Fathers AProposition of two feet neither relying vpon either The soules of the Fathers might not bee thence deliuered though Christ descended into hell and Christ might very well go down into hell and yet not deliuer any Fathers thence as finding some other work there to doo and hauing other causes of his descent finding no Fathers to deliuer For the former part of this Position that Hee went not into hell with what face what fore-head can this Fellow shew wee teach it when in our Creed wee professe that He went down into hell and haue publiquely defended it against opposition Nay wee more beleeue it than the Church of Rome doth and are more punctuall in it than are they They quarter out hell into foure Regions Hell of the Damned Purgatory Limbus Infantium and Limbus Patrum This diuision without warrant of holy Writ be it granted them into which of these Quarters into all or into some did the soule of our Sauiour separate from his body descend Say they Into the hell of the Fathers onely really into the other parts virtually or by effects Thus Thomas and who dare deny him Thus the Current of their Schools This is their Tenent and no otherwise Wee professe and beleeue that Christ went into hell that is that the humane soule of our Sauiour in the Interim of separation from the body did essentially and really go downe into hell the place of the Damned and of the Diuels not alone into Limbus of the Fathers which was not there not to suffer any thing there at all for all suffrings ended vpon the Crosse In the Land of darknes and shadow of death began the first step of his exaltation that free among the Dead he walked where he would not being consined to any place that he took reall possession of a part of his Kingdome and presented his person vnto those his vassals hauing beaten his enemy in his chiefest hold chased him out of the castle of his strength triumphed ouer him in himself and preached confusion vnto his foes that would not entertain his mercy in time of life nor partake of grace offred them vnto repentance This is our belief concerning his descent into hell if not orthodox antient and receiued let this wrangler shew where how and we will yeeld vnto better discretion from Antiquity It is idlely supposed that the descent granted we must needs inferre withall a Limbus Patrum or deliuerance of the Fathers out of hell there being alledged not contrary to Scriptures nor Analogy of faith not inferring impiety impossibility improbability absurdity or contradiction so many true good and catholick reasons of our Sauiours descent thither beside this The Fathers he meaneth are the Patriarchs and Prophets and righteous men that liued and died before Christ came in the flesh that expected the Promises and beleeued in hope but enioyed not the fulnesse which we doo since Being dead they are considered two waies in regard of state in respect of place For place the Scripture runneth in generall tearms In the hands of God In Abraham's Bosom With their people and such like thus affirmatiuely determining no certaine place negatiuely resoluing they were not there whereas now they are in the highest heauens and glorious where the Body of Christ resideth exalted aboue all Powers and Principalities For He first entred into the most holy place by his owne bloud They without vs were not to bee perfect standing the first Tabernacle the holiest of all was not yet opened The way was new which he prepared for vs. The gates to be opened were eternall gates neuer opened since they were gates but gates and eternall shut gates together Therefore wee professe with holy Saint Ambrose euery day in our Liturgie When thou hadst ouercome the sharpnes of death thou didst open the Kingdome of Heauen to all Beleeuers This we acknowledge is the receiued opinion of the fathers and for ought I knowe of Protestant Diuines not a few Though they were not in heauen in regard of place yet were they in happinesse in respect of state The soules of the Righteous said he before Christ came are in the hands of God and no kinde of torments shall once touch them This is also the consented doctrine of Antiquity If no kinde of torment then not losse nor paine then not in hell for I neuer heard of hell without all manner pain So it followeth not in opinion of the Antients the soules of the Faithfull were not in heauen aboue properly therefore they were in hell properly Gods hands in which they were are not so shortned his Kingdome is not so narrowed but that hee might well haue moe places than one Receptacles Repositories Resting-places for the righteous where hee would dispose them enow could we be content Curiosity will not stay heer but proceed to enquire Where were they then In what place of the world was their abiding I answer I cannot resolue that for the Scripture hath not determined it Nescire velle quae Magister maximus docere non vult erudita est inscitia It is learned nescience Not to knowe what our grand instructer will not teach It is enough to knowe they are in better case now than they were then With Christ they entred into his Rest Euer they were in the hands of God though not euer in like distance or proportion with God So what need we wrangle about the place if the matter bee agreed touching state See how contrary to our owne Bibles Ephes. 4. 8. out of Psal 68. 18. When he ascended vp on high he led Captiuity captiue and gaue gifts vnto men Christ in his Ascent led Captiues along The Question is Who these Captines were No Sir the question should first of all bee What this Ascent was You take it of his Resurrection It plainly is referred vnto his Triumph into the heauens in his Ascension both in the Prophet and Apostle and by all Interpreters but your self But to follow you in your follies Be it as you would haue it of his Resurrection must these freed Captiues needs be the soules of the Fathers which Christ deliuered out of hell Yes no nay no other possibility For they were not the soules of the Saued nor the Diuels therefore the soules of the Fathers Sir can you finde no mo but these Diuels or Saued Iustin Martyr could and he is ancient pag. 57. edit Rob. Steph. with him in his opinion and I think hee was in his right wits We are those Captiues that since the Ascension of our Sauiour by the preaching of the Gospell of peace are captiued vnto truth being freed and deliuered from error Irenaeus in his wits too I suppose goes not far from this meaning for hauing remembred the Text whcih he referreth to the Passion hee inferreth thus Dominus per passionem mortem destruxit soluit errorem corruptionemque exterminauit ignorantiam destruxit Tertullian was
maketh them better Purgatory is not so it is penall onely There is no merit in Purgatory soules cannot sinne nor deserue there in the resolution of your owne men Secondly the fire which Saint Augustine meaneth doth then in his opinion performe that office when the sheepe are separated from the goates that is when your Purgatory in your owne opinions is no more for euer Thus the ordinary Glosse vnderstood Saint Augustine Wee read saith the Glosse of two fires that shall come The one eternall which eternally shall torment the reprobate This fire is to insue the Iudgement The other fire shall goe before which shall burne vp the surface of this world and shall amend them that haue builded wood hay and stubble But such as haue builded gold siluer end precious stones shal be secure safe from eyther fire And in like sort doth Salmeron conceiue of Saint Augustine and Augustine could not meane your Purgatory in Saint Paul For such as build gold c. come not within your Verge at all but into Saint Paul's Fires as saith Saint Augustine commeth both one and other Ignis de quo locutus est eo loco Apostolus Paulus 〈◊〉 debet intelligi vt ambo per cum transeant id est et qui aedificat supra hoc fundamentum aurum c. et qui aedificat lignum c. Lastly Saint Gregory doth explicate this very place of Purgatory Dial. 4. and to help you out for you could not tell Cap. 39. sed tamen are his words de quibusdam leuibus culpis esse ante iudicium purgatorius ignis credendus est And to this sense hee saith that Text of the Apostle may be applied But Sir Gagger this Gregory the Author of the Dialogues is no authenticall writer with mee I doe not hold him for the man whose name hee beareth But at this time I will not question him for your sake though I owe you little Hee telleth vs of a purging fire Good but euery purging fire is not that you dreame of which hath made the Popes Kitchin smoke so much heeretofore Saint Augustine acknowledgeth another so do many of your owne men And this of Saint Gregory is no other then that of Fire which goeth before the Iudge Ante iudicium saith your Author which wee deny not and helpeth you nothing Saint Augustine led Saint Gregory the way Videtur euidentius apparere saith hee in illo iudicio quasdam quorundam purgatorias poenas futuras No such matter then in their opinion for the present Many trying Fires there may bee there are both literall and metaphoricall which will clayme interest in Saint Paul's meaning 1. Cor. 3. 13. before your Purgatory can find admittance there Toby 4. 17. Powre out thy bread vpon the buriall of the iust that is Offer for those which are in Purgatory no doubt For Saint Chrysostome Hom. 32. in Math. vnderstandeth this very place of Purgatory Vnderstandeth And what of that Vnderstanding will not serue our turne we must haue expresse words in our own Bibles for it else Olle quid ad te Purgatory and Buriall are all one with you or Purgatory will not appeare hence As for your warrant from Saint Chrysostome you bely Saint Chrysostome and your Author both I say it because the man you would remember is not Saint Chrysostome but the Author of the Imperfect worke vpon Saint Mathew who indeed was wont to goe vnder Saint Chrysostomes name but is acknowledged by euery Smatterer amongst you not to bee Saint Chrysostome Did you not knowe this I pitty then your case which hath such poore companions for Patrons Did you knowe it the more to blame you that would not distinguish him from Saint Chrysostome who in his 32. Homil. hath not any thing looking that way You might haue beene challenged for forgery euery way had I not found you out as you may for folly or ignorance or dissolute security beeing found out But neither doth your Saint Chrysostome that is the Author specified so vnderstand or talke of the place of Toby For Homil. 26. not 32. vpon 41. verse of the tenth of Mat. hauing expounded these words of Toby not ill telleth vs a tale out of Clemens concerning Saint Peter and this Doctrine deliuered by him out of Tradition Sed audi mysterium c. But heare a secret and mysticall meaning giuen by Saint Peter remembred by Clemens If any beleeuer shall doe a good work it is profitable vnto him in this world by deliuering him from euill and also in the world to come to attaine the Kingdome of heauen rather there in that world than in this But if an vnbeleeuer doe a good worke it will profit him heere by deliuering him from euill and God will returne vnto him good for his worke But in that world to come his work will profit him nothing For neither is hee ranked for that his worke with other beleeuers and that deseruedly because hee did that good out of naturall good motions and not for Gods sake Wherefore hee receiueth his reward both in and for the body not in or for his soule Also if a Christian shall giue vnto no Christian hee shall therefore receiue no great reward because hee gaue it not vnto a Christian nor as vnto a Christian Toby saying Poure out thy wine vpon the sepulchers of the iust and giue nothing vnto the sinner Whoso giueth a little to an vnbelieuer hath his reward but he that giueth any thing to a beleeuer hath a double reward first in as much as hee is Gods Creature secondly because hee is iust before God But whosoeuer giueth vnto an vnbeleeuer hath onely a single reward in as much as the vnbeleeuer is Gods Creature though in will opposite vnto God If a Christian doe receiue no Christian but an Infidel in the name of a Christian haue his reward notwithstanding appointed for him hee shall because as much as lieth in him he receiueth indeed no Christian but as a Christian It was necessary I should as I haue done set downe the whole place at large both that the Pamphleter may direct mee to that passage or those words in which or by which Saint Chrysostome vnderstandeth this place of Purgatory which I professe such is my dulnesse I cannot see nor imagine As also that I might deale vprightly in the cause and sincerely with him that dealeth honestly in nothing and lastly that the Reader may pick out if hee can where or how hee may ground Purgatory or if hee cannot may see and knowe and take notice of a forlorn cause so vpholden by false shews and collusion Finde Purgatory fire or not fire prison or not prison state or not state of the deceased in expiatory torments or pains heer and I will instantly professe and beleeue Purgatory without more adoo 1. Cor. 15. 29. Else what shall they doo which are baptized for the Dead Vpon this Text the Gaggers Glosse is An euident place concerning the succour which the souls
departed receiue by the assistance of the Church To admit it euident and concerning succour which soules departed receiue and that by the assistance of the Church yet first I say you go from your word no such contrariety heer as you pretend Secondly you are a poor Ignaro that think soules must needs be in Purgatory that receiue assistance from the Church It may be your poor vnderstanding will wonder at it but knowe Sir I can admit Praier for the Dead and deny your Purgatory I can giue you reasons to pray for the Dead and yet keep farre enough from your Purgatory But for that some other time At present I answer You are a silly man that call this an euident place one of the hardest in all Scripture Quid sit baptizari pro mortuis obscurum est ab Authoribus variè exponitur say your owne men which is true For till this day it is not agreed what is the meaning no man can say This is the sense and yet our Blunderer saith It is euident Doo you knowe that some take pro mortuis for the Dead that is for sinnes because men die through sinnes and the works of sin are called Dead works And so men are baptized to be deliuered from sinne These men dreamt not of Purgatory That others vse pro mortuis that is doo represent the Dead because we die to sinne in Baptism and are buried vnto corruption And not much differing hence that others take it Into the death of Christ which of these thought vpon Purgatory Again some take Baptism for affliction men afflicted vnto death what shall they doo if the dead rise not again Some referre it vnto a Iewish custome by which if a man had died polluted another was clensed and washed for him that so beeing dead hee might get aduantage by it This Iewish Fable may happely look vpon your Purgatory and much good may it doo you Yet farther Chrysostome relateth vpon this place that when any of the Catechized among the Marcionite Heretiques died a liuing body was laid vnder the Beer and the question proposed vnto the Party If he would be baptized for you knowe the Catechumeni were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vnbaptized The Party answered for the dead man Yes I will and so was hee baptized for him And thus they expounded Saint Paul's meaning Tertullian by dead vnderstandeth the body of man If there be no Resurrection to what end is the body baptized Epiphanius lastly and most men commonly take it for the baptizing of the Clinici as they called them Men in those times vsually deferred Baptism vntill their death and in extremis would be baptized So to be baptized for the Dead is to be baptized when men are ready to dy which they not doe but vpon hope of the Resurrection In such variety and greater than so yet saith this fellowe An euident place To come home to the assertion It is plaine and euident the Apostle speaketh not of any succour that soules departed receiued from the Suffrages of the Church which were it granted no necessity of Purgatory would ensue but of comfort that men receiued from that mayne point of our most holy faith the Resurrection of the Dead the mayne Subiect of that Chapter as euery child with vs can tell See more for wee haue seene but little hitherto 2. Tim. 1. 18. where That day is transmued into Purgatory For Saint Pauls words are The Lord grant vnto him that he may find mercy with the Lord at that day that is may bee deliuered out of Purgatory at the day of Iudgement So wheresoeuer God sheweth mercy there is Purgatory or All that finde mercy at the day of Iudgement come out of Purgatory Vnlesse this bee his meaning let him tell me what he would haue with Saint Paul here If this bee his meaning I wish him well for sure hee is in no right wits because so no man liuing can escape Purgatory by this inference For no man but findeth mercy with God before that time and then No man but needeth Gods mercy then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In that fearfull and terrible day when wee stand in need of great mercy indeed saith Chrysost who neuer dreamt of any Purgatory nor would haue sent Onesiphorus thither had hee fancied any such thing for euen according to your owne Doctrine his good deeds had not onely aboundantly merited for himselfe sufficiently satisfied for his Peccadilloes but his Indurances ouer and aboue layd somewhat vnto the Church-treasure And what hath Purgatory to do with such a man Esay 4. 4. the Prophet speaketh of the Spirit of burning and of Purging thus When the Lord shall wash the filthines of the daughter of Sion purge the blood of Ierusalem out of the midst thereof by the Spirit of iudgement and by the Spirit of burning then without all doubt Purgatory burneth apace the rather because Saint Augustine expoundeth it of Purgatory Lib. 20. de Ciuit. Dei Cap. 25 saith Bellar. You left vs to seeke Cap. 21 say others so your selues are to seeke I meane for any such thing in Saint Augustine For hee is belied in both places which touch not vpon Purgatory at all but manifestly designe the last Iudgement In the 21. he professes himself that his discourse was wholly therof à primo Saluatoris aduentu vsque ad vltimū Iudiciū de quo nunc agimus And more euidently Cap. 25. Videtur euidentius apparere in illo Iudicio quodam quorundā futuras Poenas purgatorias Purgatory paines are by S. Augustine put off and adiourned vnto the last Iudgement then to begin when yours end and this but in opinion not resolution Now Sir what aduantage haue you by Saint Augustine who speaketh opiningly of Purgatory but excludeth your Purgatory And to as much purpose is Saint Basil expounding the place of Esay 9. 18. of Purgatory you say The text is For wickednes burneth as a fire it deuoureth the briers and thornes and will kindle in the thick places of the Forrest and they shall mount vp like the lifting vp of smoke Basil in his exposition nameth purging fire I grant it but this purging fire is in life not after death in this world not in the world to come and God himselfe is this purging fire who abolisheth and consumeth iniquitie by Repentance being detected by confession as any man may see that will but looke vpon the place and the same Father vpon the 10. of Esay more plainely explicateth his owne meaning Pandit hic naturam ignis quia lustratiuus est et purgatorius Sanctificabit enim ipsum quasi in igne ardenti Quomodo autem sanctificat ignis Quia comesturus est syluam tanquam foenū Sanè ex quo Deus noster ignis consumens est consumet syluā et vitia quae à syluā siue materiâ promanant animae quae non degit in spiritu sed in carne Strange conceits that if any Father name purging fire hee must needs bee a