Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	believe_v	faith_n	fundamental_a	3,198	5	10.0998	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B22558	The Popish labyrinth wherein is made manifest, that the Papists are entangled in the fundamental article of their faith, that the church cannot erre / written in Dutch by ... Dr. Simon Episcopius, unto which is added, The life and death of the author ; as also, The life and death of James Arminius, both of them famous defenders of God	Episcopius, Simon, 1583-1643.; Bertius, Petrus, 1565-1629. Oratio in obitum reverendi & clarissimi viri D. Jacobi Arminii. English.; Chardon de Courcelles, Etienne, 1705-1775? Short and compendious history of Simon Episcopius.	1673 (1673)	Wing E3163	56,195	122

there is required a skill in Tongues continual or diligent reading an acute Judgment and an accurate Examination of the Words and Phrasiologie or manner of expression of the Fathers But supposing also that there is no Controversie touching these Things Then Fourthly the Question will be whether all those Things which the Father 's believed and wrote are to be believed and received as true If you deny it I will query in the Fifth Place why one more than another If you say because they are all agreed in that or the one then these Questions will forthwith arise First wherefore should all those Things wherein they are agreed amongst themselves be accounted or held by the Church of Rome for undoubted and certain The Second is what are those things concerning which they are agreed and which are to be embraced To know this you must attentively turn over the Writings of all the Fathers Greek and Latine from Head to Foot for the which some Years space is requisite And Thirdly if any Doubt happen either touching the Sense of their Writings as there is doubt made of the Scripture or of their Phrases and forms of Expression which they at that Time used and now are both used and understood far otherwise what end will there be But passing this seeing the Fathers agree among themselves in this that they would have neither their own nor any Writings of Men except the Books that are Canonical to be lookt upon as free from Error yea seeing they roundly confess that they may err and by Consequence would not that their Writings should be believed not to be lyable to Error but do expresly will that they be tryed by the Word of God desiring that they should be rejected if they agree not therewith What shall be done then What Certainty can there be had from their Writings against Errors Certainly none at all Yea rather if we make Use of them for this end that we may from thence be assured in our belief we use them contrary to the Intention of the Fathers and so against their plain and express Protestation and Prohibition wherein the Fathers are all agreed CHAP. VIII That the same cannot be proved by Reasons IF he at length have a mind to confirm his Thesis by Reasons he falls out of one Labyrinth into another For first what Reasons will sway with him whereon to rely when as in the main Article of his Belief he doth not only not heed Rea●ons but doth not believe so much as his outward Senses Can there be given any more solid Argument for the convincing of any one than that which is drawn from that which we see with our own Eyes which we perceive with our Senses being sound and lastly which we feel and taste These things notwithstanding the true Papist makes small Account of Seeing that neither by Reasons nor by his own Senses he suffers himself to be induced to believe that the Eucharistical Bread in the Lord's Supper is essentially and substantially Bread Yea when he will undoubtedly believe that one and the same Body is in many places together and they far distant each from other remaining individed notwithstanding that it be distant and separate from it self one hundred yea a thousand and if it were possible a thousand thousand Miles that one and the same Body at the same Time should be able to move in this Place and elsewhere not to move That one and the same Body should meet it self and move with contrary Motions at the same moment of Time that is together at once from East to West and from West to East Upward and Downward Foreward and Backward That one and the same Body here should be as hot as Fire and at Rome as cold as Ice That it should be alive here and dead at Venice He that will believe these Things which are diametrically contrary to the Nature of Man and right Reason by what Reason shall he either dare or be able to perswade himself or others of any thing Those who shame not to question so clear a Truth and obstinately to believe the cont●●ry and as I may so say wilfully to draw a Film over their Eyes that they may not see with such I say Reasons are like Counters which stand for so much as they desire they should stand for that use them in Accounts But be it that they make Use of Reasons What Reasons I pray you will they here produce Will they take them from the Scripture But then the same Difficulties will remain as we have already recounted Or shall their Reasons not be taken from Scripture But those by other Reasons may most easily and not without just cause be called into Doubt For if the Church cannot err this must necessarily proceed from the Divine Will and Decree For if God will not have the Church to be beyond or out of all Danger of Errour what Reason will there be given undenyably proving that the Church cannot err Now the will and Decree of God cannot be understood without the Scripture much less can it be drawn from mens Wit and Reasoning From whence it followeth that it is altogether most absurd by Reasons which may be doubted of to prove any thing which ought now long before without all Doubt and Controversie to be believed to depend upon the meer free Will and Decree of God By these Things it is manifest in how intricate and inexplicable a Circle the Papists wander in ●espect of the fundamental Article of their Faith when they will believe nothing but what their Church believeth yet cannot certainly shew what their Church properly is or who is the Head of their Church and although they could shew that as they cannot yet were it impossible for them to prove that the Church much less that their Church cannot err And thus far of the first sort of Papists with whom we have said that Dispute is alwayes held in vain CHAP. IX That the Controversie of Succession is useless and endless THe second sort of them is those who greatly desire always to dispute of those Questions which though they be weighed by the exact ballance of Truth yet do they not assure the Consciences of Men nor convince them of the Truth that is chiefly necessary to be believed These are they who have the Antiquity and Succession both of their Doctrine and Church always in their Mouth concluding for certain that they have born away the Palm and gotten the Victory if they may glory thereof This they sound forth as the Burden of the Catholicks Song And which is worthy of the Highest Admiration the chief Cryers and Boasters hereof are even those who haply not so much as ever throughly viewed the Books and Histories of those Men from whence this Antiquity and continued Succession is to be drawn and maintained or if they have viewed them thorow are yet nevertheless no wayes fit to turn them over without Affection and Prejudice to wit being wont either

will not recede so much as a fingers breadth from the Opinion they have undertaken to maintain is all one as by Arguments to perswade him the Sun shines who shuts his eyes against the Light thereof and refuseth to see its Light Indeed for their sakes who continually fasten on such kind of Questions as when they be fully discust do yet nevertheless not convince Consciences of the principal Truth to spend much pains and to weary ones self with continual disputing is nothing else but to draw water with a sieve which if one take up out of the water immediately it appeareth empty and void of that Humour or Moysture which it abundantly drew CHAP. II. Of that kind of Papists who will not be taught better Amongst the most of Christians especially the Papists or by which title they love to be called the Catholicks when any Dispute is had with them we ordinarily meet with these two sorts of Men. The first Sort is twofold Some fear not roundly and with full mouth to affirme that they will not be taught better but that they will tooth and nayl and obstinately stick to their own Opinion Insomuch that though they should see with their eyes that the Wall is white yet nevertheless they would believe their Church so believing and judging that it is black because being forced by necessity they find that they must so speak Whereupon although they find by all their Senses that is see smell taste feel hear that the bread in the Eucharist is nothing but bread yet notwithstanding they ought to be willing to believe that it is not bread but only the accident of Bread which cannot be tasted touch'd or smelt Not considering that themselves do by this means give very many cause to doubt of every thing and so to call in question the chief Foundation of the whole Christian Religion that is the Truth of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead which is built on this Foundation that the Apostles and Disciples of Jesus Christ and amongst these Thomas otherwise not over-credulous perceived Jesus Christ with all their senses saw handled heard and veiwed him near to them judging that that very thing ought to be an irrefragable Argument to themselves and to the whole world for to believe that Christ rose from the dead not in shew and appearance but really in his proper body And they indeed call this very thing mens believing those things which they do not see who yet do quite contrary here whilest they do not believe that very thing which they see touch smell hear and taste He that seeth not that this is a great Efficacy of errour he seeth nothing at all and if Thomas had followed this Rule he might by the same Parity of Right have believed that it was not Christ himself whom he beheld before him into whose side he thrust his Hand and his Finger into the Prints of the Nails CHAP. III Of some Papists that cleave so stifly to their own Opinion that they will not give place to any Reason THere are others who seem not on set purpose to be willing or to dare roundly and openly to profess that they will not be taught better yea who protest to the contrary deeming that too gross and rustick a Saying and yet nevertheless they do not obscurely declare when they see their Forces reduced to Straits that they neither can nor ought to yield to a better Opinion much less receive any Information from those whom their Church counts Hereticks and although they perceive themselves in such sort wrapped in that they can give no reason of their Belief or Opinion neither from the Sacred Scriptures nor Councils nor Fathers and that their own Reasons are so solidly and strongly refuted that they may as it were feel with their hands that their Exceptions to the contrary are of no Weight or Force at all yet they defend or maintain their own so obstinately that they will rather perswade themselves that those Arguments though they seem solid and altogether Achillean are more brittle than Glass and do onely deceive under a shew of Reason which others more skilful than themselves would easily and with no trouble solve or answer and so being blinded with a prejudicate Opinion and also led with a Love and Reverence of their Mother the Church they count them meer Sophisms by this means indeed confessing on the one hand their own weakness and on the other hand shewing their singular Constancy or Obstinacy in the Faith of their Church contrary Arguments notwithstanding which press their minds and force them to doubt of their fore-going Belief yea to believe to the contrary We may easily observe that these two Sorts of Men do not seek the Truth with a pious and honest Mind but that they onely hunt after vain Glory and the Praise of Victory gotten by any means whatsoever deeming they have alwayes sufficient Causes of glorying whilest they dare affirm they are not satisfied That the case so stands daily Experience sheweth Nor is it to be wondred at The first and chiefest Article of the Papists is this That their Church cannot err consequently that of all other Churches that differ from their Church we are to conclude that they err and that as long as they persist in their Errour are liable to eternal destruction damnation With whom this foundation doth not remain wholly fixt and unshaken he cannot be a true Papist but if any hold it tooth and nail he openly professeth that he is not willing to be taught better although he shall be convinced of his Errour or if he make shew of some desire to learn yet doth he with his whole Strength and Might maintain his Opinion although the Truth be proposed to him as clearly and resplendently as the Sun-beams are wont to be when the weather is fair and clear This Foundation being laid it necessarily follows that to dispute with a true Papist is fruitless and endless and that it cannot be hoped that such an one should be taken off from his resolution or by Arguments be reduced into the right Way Furthermore a true Papist as he renders himself unmeet to embrace the Truth and to acknowledge his own Errour so doth he unadvisedly cast himself into a Labyrinth or Maze of inextricable absurdities out of which he is utterly unable to extricate or free himself as it frequently useth to befal them who receive not the Love of the Truth that they might be saved as Paul shews 2 Thes 2.10 And this appears more clear than the Noon-dayes Light when any Dispute is undertaken with them even concerning any Point whatsoever of the Christian Religion nor is it necessary in many words to prove it CHAP. IIII. That the Papists cannot show which is that true Church which cannot err THis chief and fundamental Point which they have alwayes in their mouth and on which they chiefly build That the Church of Rome cannot err is a Labyrinth out

that he was never after to be so much as counted for a Pope as appears by the 11. and 12. Session CHAP. V. That none can lawfully decide this Question LO in what an intricate and inextricable Labyrinth the Papist sticks as to the first and chief Foundation of his Religion to wit that even to this day he cannot tell what that Church is that cannot err or which is that Head of the Church that is not subject to errour but he must contradict many and divers Catholick Churches and Doctors Nor can the Mind of Man devise any means whereby to bring Him out of this Maze of Errors into the way For who shall determine and decide this without Errour For either the Pope or a Council shall determine this Question disjunctly or conjunctly that is apart or together Disjunctly it is impossible because neither of them can remove the Controversie For as long as it doth not appear or it is not agreed whether is the true Church which cannot err neither can decide this Question by a Peremptory and infallible Judgment And if either should assume this right to himself it would justly be suspected by the other Party And he would in very deed make himself a Judge in his own Cause For if either deliver his Right unto other he will not only commit an unworthy Deed For to deliver the Right of supream Authority in the Church is a wicked and unlawful Act To whom that Right appertaineth he must of necessity maintain the same but he will also thwart or go against all the Decrees of other Councils wherein either a Council is defined to be above the Pope or the Pope above a Council And supposing this were done yet will it follow from thence that the Church of Rome hath for so great a space of Time either erred in so fundamental a Point or stuck in Uncertainty and Doubt not knowing what to determine concerning this Question It is a Deep without Bottom into which hitherto the Church of Rome hath been plung'd together with all those who think her the only Church wherein alone Salvation may and ought to be had Let any one shew himself that can free himself from thence with shew of Truth and solid Reasons CHAP. VI. That a Papist cannot demonstrate from the Sacred Scripture that the Head of his Church cannot err BUt suppose we indeed that a Papist could tell the Head of his Church which yet as hath been prov'd already he cannot by what Argument I pray will he assure both himself and others that this Head cannot err What way soever he takes to demonstrate this he will see that he falls into another far more intricate Labyrinth For that he may be certain That this Head cannot err it is necessary that either he will believe it simply and without Reason or that he labour to prove it from the Sacred Scripture or from the Fathers or by Reasons If he will believe and perswade himself thereof simply and have others believe the same all Dispute will be forthwith superfluous and void and if another on the contrary will not believe the same they will then be both alike and both continue to stick in the Labyrinth of their own carnal Will However it be his Faith is not a Faith that cannot err and consequently he cannot with Certainty rely thereon If he endeavour to prove it from Scripture he entangles himself much more For first it cannot be known according to his Opinion that the Scripture is the Word of God except the true Church first certifie us thereof If this be true as he believeth it is and according to the Rules of his Church he is bound to believe he cannot take Arguments from the Scripture whereby to maintain that the true Church cannot err Or whereby to prove that his Church is the true Church that knows not how to err Secondly suppose that it be even granted to him to fetch his Reasons from the Scripture he will then find himself much more entangled For presently the Question will be concerning the true meaning of the Scripture And the Question that is raised to wit whether it be contained in the Scripture that the Church cannot err who shall by an infallible Judgement decide it Shall his Church This is no wayes possible because the Question is concerning the meaning of the Scripture to wit whether the Scripture gives to the Church this right or Priviledge of judging authoritatively and infallibly But Thirdly granting also that the Scripture doth give this Power to the true Church which it doth not yet the Question will remain which is that Church which is the true Church and to whom this Priviledge in Scripture is given And in the Power of what Church shall the Power of deciding infallibly this Question be In the Power of the Roman But the Question is moved no less concerning it then others besides it cannot pass Judgment in its own concern more than another Church concerning its If he go about to prove it by Reasons he will rove without the bounds because those Reasons are not Scriptural and we here treat or plead about the Scripture But supposing that Reasons be opposed against Reaons There will now straightway result from thence a new Question Which Reasons are strongest and infallible whereby we may be certain That the Reason taken from Succession doth not belong to this Place we shall demonstrate hereafter That a Papist should emerge from hence is impossible CHAP. VII That He cannot demonstrate this very thing from the Fathers IF he will prove this from the Fathers their Writings he falls into the same and indeed into a more intricate Labyrinth Into the same I say For immediately the Question will be whence doth it appear certainly that this Right or Power doth belong to the Writings of the Fathers that the decision of this and other Controversies in the business of Religion ought to be fetcht from them I say also into a more intricate For first it will be demanded what Fathers and what Writings do they mean If they say these or those it will secondly be asked Why those rather than other and why not all For whoso puts this Difference between the Writings of the Fathers he does by that very Deed of his make the decision And to whom shall it belong to make this Decision Furthermore suppose that there be no Controversie raised concerning some yet thirdly the Question will remain still Whether those writings which be attributed to the Fathers be their Writings whose Names they bear or whether they might not in Tract of Time through negligence through Deceit and Fraud be corrupted and depraved or whether they might not be patcht up with the supposititious Changling or forged Books of other Writers as we see indeed done at this Day by the Writings of Tertullian Justin Hierome Augustine Chrysostome c Who shall judge between the genuine or true and the supposititious or adulterate and false For that

of which they cannot rid themselves For first they cannot tell nor intelligibly declare which is that Church which they believe cannot err Secondly it is impossible for them to bring any Demonstrative Argument whereby to perswade themselves or any other impartial man I do not say the Roman but that the Church cannot err I evince these two As to the first Member I thus query with a Papist When you say the Church or the Church of Rome cannot err what do you mean by the Church Do you mean all Christians in general who take Jesus Christ for their Saviour and submit to all his holy Commands so that not so much as one of them can err Doubtless he will deny it For every one of them considered singly apart yea and all conjunctly together may err For all are Members of one Body which ought to have a visible Head from whom they ought to receive Spiritual Life Senses and holy Affections Grant it be so what then Do you think that the Cardinals Archbishops Presbyters and Doctors are the Church He will deny it again Since all and every one singly may err for the same Reason which we have shewn already Do you therefore by the Church understand a general Council consisting of all the Cardinals Bishops and Doctors as representing the whole multitude of Christians whose Head this Council is He will affirm it But granting this although it be grounded on no Reason I will ask further Do you believe then that this Council as it is the Head of the Church cannot err howsoever assembled and whatsoever shall be decreed therein In no wise he will say it ought to be lawfully convocated By whom say I he will say by the Pope of Rome Grant this though it be void of Reason and without Ground yea and they determine or judge contrary to the Practice of the first General Councils Is this Council so convocated that Church which cannot err in its Decrees and Determinations Or is there that Head of the Church to which no Errour is incident Here he will stick or demur somewhat For I will go on to query thus Put the case that this Council decree any thing without the Consent yea contrary to the Judgment and Dignity of the Pope of Rome whether or no can it err therein Here he must of necessity be wholly at a Loss For it is known that not only diverse Ancient Councils both particular and General have past Decrees against his mind and which did diminish the Pope of Rome's Dignity as appears by many Councils in Africa and also in the fourth General Council of Chalcedon and many others But further also it is evident that the General Council of Constance held in the Year 1414. and called by the Pope of Rome John the 23. or as others the 24. At which were present more than a Thousand Fathers deputed or appointed by the Church of Rome and among these above three hundred Bishops decreed with unaminous Consent that the Council was above the Pope and therefore that it was in the power of the Council to expunge Popes out of the Register of the Church and to degrade them even as by the same Council were degraded three Popes who then exercised the Office of the Popedom and among these even Pope John himself who had called this Council and that for four and fiftie or according to others seventie one nefarious Crimes among which were these two First that he had openly denyed the Immortality of Souls supposing that Men dyed like Beasts to which he also added this Second That he affirmed that there was neither Paradise nor Hell as is manifest by the 11th Session Here the Papist must say one of these two Either that such a general Council is the Church that cannot err no not even then when it determineth any thing against the Pope and to the prejudice of his Highness as was done in this Council Or that such a Council is not the true Church and therefore is capable of Errour If he say the Former he will find himself entangled in a Gordian Knot and besides he will oppose the greatest Part of the Popish Doctors especially the Jesuits who not only affirm that the Pope is above a Council but also determine that that Council of Constance is in this respect to be blamed wherein they decreed that the Pope was inferiour to a Council as is clear out of Cardinal Bellarmin and others yea further he will be forc't expresly to confess that the Pope of Rome who hath suceeeded to Peters Right and Power is not the chief or supream Head of all Churches and by Consequence that the Pope of Rome may err in Faith and swerve from the Truth If he say the latter he falls into a new Labyrinth For then he doth not only contradict Councils but also many and diverse both Churches and Popish Doctors And namely the most ancient School of the Sorbon in France which by some is called the first Daughter of the Church which with the greatest part of the French Churches defends and approves of that decree of the Council of Constance Howbeit suppose that he find no difficulty in this matter yet there he will stick that even then he knoweth not and cannot tell or shew that Church which affirms that it cannot err For if a General Council be not the Church or if it may err and doth err when it determines any thing against the Pope or without his approbation I pray what is that which makes the Church not lyable to Errour Haply he will say the Council is the Church when it agrees with the Pope and is confirmed by Him Here again is a new Labyrinth for it may fall out and it very often hath that the greatest Part of the Council may not vote with the Pope Imagine therefore that the greatest Part of the Council do judge and decree something that the Pope disallows of Or that the Pope agree with the lesser Part Which Part in this Case makes the Church Not the greatest For that is contrary to the Pope Doth then the least Part make the Church What Reason What shew of Truth What only because the Pope favours it Then the Pope is the Church For if these few make the Church because the Pope is on their Side then if they were only two who should judge against a thousand others those two with the Pope would make the Church and what speak I of two Although there were only one yea none yet the matter would come to the same Issue the Pope alone at length would be the Fore-castle and Poop and the whole Church which cannot err Although he be even the veryest Knave in the World Yea further not only a Heretick but also an Atheist who denies the Immortality of the Soul Heaven and Hell As Pope John the 23 of whom we have lately spoken of did For which Cause he was degraded by the Council of Constance with so severe a Sentence