also by his instigation seemeth good to vs. That he did acknowledg infallibilitie in sincere approued Councells it is further manifest by that he held of the Popes iudgmeÌ„t If he thought the resolution of doubts in faith were to be made by him and that his decision was a truth so certaine that it could not be gainesaid he without question made no lesse esteeme of a generall and approued Councell wherein the Popes iudgment and determination is included and consequentlie when he questions or reiects the authoritie of Councells he meanes not those wherein the Pope defines or such as he approues and so not all that are vnder the name of generall but some onelie as hath beene said before Now that he had that estimation which I haue mentioned of the Popes iudgment and dedefinition it is manifest by the 47. Chapter where professedlie he doth vndertake to proue it bringing to this purpose manie testimonies out of S. Augustine S. Hierome Rufinus Origen the Bishops of Africk and others The title of the Chapter is Quod Papa habet ab antiquo potestatem insringibilem ad determinandum fidei veritates debellandum cancellandum omnes falsitates haereticas And in the verie nn Orthodoxi omnes ad iudices Christi currunt vicarios ordinatè requirunt vt tandem planam teneant veritatem Propter hoc enim vt verè credunt licet Doctores vltra eos Episcopos inter omnes mortales singillatim acceptos petere Papam cuius moderameÌ„ decisio pro irrefragabili vero tenebatur à Patribus Apud ipsum enim piè credebant totius fidei nostrae latere mysteria pectus eius imbutum butyro illo prophetico quo sciret reprobare malum eligere bonum Walden to 1. li. 2. c. 47. Nouit Hieronymus apud Papam Romanum authoritatem este ad emendandum fidem incongruam vel ad probandum Catholicam postquam à tanto Apostolatu haberetur vt recta sine dubio foret per null â—maltum violanda Ad eiusdem quoque Damasi Papa doctrinam tanquam ad infallibilem fidei regulam Catholici Episcopi illo tempore suos aduersarios haereticos coëgerunt Ibidem vbi etiam refert illud quod suprà dictum est ex Hier. de Sancti Marci Euangelio per Sanctum Petrum approbato beginning he saith Papae moderamen decisio pro irrefragabili vero tenebatur à Patribus the Popes direction and decision was by the Fathers marke that by the Fathers held for a truth which cannot be contradicted To the same purpose are manie things added in the next Chapter which is of the prerogatiue of perpetuall immunitie in the Church of Rome where amonge other things he saith that oo Propter hanc incorruptionem claritatem famosam omnes viri Catholici quantumcunque magni quantumlibet sancti simul authoritate territi magnae sedis ab hac susceperunt in dubijs fidei documenta terrifica cap. 48. all Catholick men how great how holie soeuer haue from that See receaued documents in doubts of faith and that it is as he speakes in the words of Cyrill stabilita inquassabiliter so established that it cannot be moued or shaken and more to the same purpose which in the additions you may reade So that I may leaue this as sufficientlie demonstrated out of his booke that you were mistaken in the sence of the words obiected Out of that which hath beene related from him it appeares also that I may leaue a note for such as vpon this occasion may chaunce hereafter to looke on him first that he puts diuers degrees of adhesion deuines expresse it by certitudo maior maior ex parte subiecti respectiuelie to verities diuerslie proposed Secondlie thar with him these proponents are infallible vizt the Church symbolicall that part of it which is now present including both Pastors and people a perfect and syncere generall Councell and the Church of Rome as it is head or the Pope defining Thirdlie that the Pope Councell and present Church when it will seeke the veritie of anie point of faith called into question or the authoritie of any writing or scripture to knowe whether it be diuine or no is to looke into the symbolicall Church which hath all the Christian lawe with the meaning written in her heart by the spirit of the liuing God and there to finde it not in euerie page of this greate booke not expressed in the faith of euerie part but in the booke And if after the search made it be proposed by the Pope in a generall Councell by the present Church receaued or by the Pope in Councell to the Church all are according to his principles to receaue and to beleeue it Fourthlie that the present Church finding and proposing the veritie and the symbolicall in whom she finds it beleeuing and testifying the same doe make vp one organ where by the holie Ghost the spirit of truth doth auouch it to the world Fiftlie that besides the authorities before mentioned all contained in the Church wherein our sauiour pp Ego vobiscum omnibus diebus Mat 28. qui loquitur in me Christus 2 Corim 13. Parecletum dabit vobis vt maneat vobiscum in aeteâ—nuÌ„ spiritum veritatis Ioh 14. In vobis erit Ibidem Non enim vos estis qui loquimini sed Spiritus Patris vestri qui loquitur in vobis Matt. 10. likewise and his spirit be there be in it also diuers other degrees of authoritie as of generall Councells not including the Popes approbation not by the Church or him disapproued of particular Churches especiallie qq Ecclesiarum Catholicarum inter quas sanê illae quae Apostolicas sedes habere epistolas accipere meruerunt c. S. Aug. 2. Doct. Chri. c. 8. such as the Apostles haue liued in and amongst them chieflie the Roman though considered with abstraction from the Popes authoritie by reason of the traditions left in her by the two great Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul of nationall or prouinciall Synods and the like all which according to this Author haue their waight though not the same with the Pope in Councell I omit to pleade further that Waldensis was at Constance in the Councell whereof I spake before treating of Cameracensis and passe vnto the next §. IV. 1. Panormitan the Lawier speakes of a Councell not approued by the Pope nor by the Church diffused which Councells the Question meddles not withall 2. It were possible he thinks for God considering his absolute power to conserue the true faith in one man or woman 3. Antoninus his mind touching Councells PVto tamen quod si Papa moueretur melioribus rationibus authoritatibus quà m Concilium quod standum esset sententiae suae Nam Concilium potest errare sicut aâ—ià s errauit super matrimonium contrahendum inter raptorem raptum Et infrà Nec obstat si dicatur quod Concilium Generale non potest
potest The Church because it relyeth not on reason but on the diuine authoritie prouidence and assistance and hath it infalliblie promised vnto her can in no sort or manner nullo modo determine besides the truth or erroneouslie or against God Whence it followes as before that if the Church doth applie her testimonie vnto any booke auouching and publikelie declaring it to be scripture or to any proposiâ—ion determining it to be a point of â—aith and proposing it vnto the world for such there can be accorâ—ing to this author no further queâ—tion made of it since the diuine â—rouidence doth so guide her that â—n such definitions she in no sort â—an iudge erroneouslie or determine â—esides the truth â— Neither is this integritie in deâ—â—nition violated or our sauiours promise of assistance broken if not in matter of diuine beleefe such as â—or the good of his Church God â—ath reuealed but in i Longè aliter se habent quaestiones istae quas esse praeâ—er fidem arbitratur Celestius quà m sunt illae in quibus â—lua fide qua Christiani sumus aut ignoratur quid verum 〈◊〉 sententia definitiua suspenditur aut aliter quam est â—umana infirma suspicione conijcitur Velâ—â—â— cum quaeâ—â—tur qualis vel vbi sit Paradâ—sus cum tamen esse illum â—aradisum fides Christiana non dubitet Vel cum quaeriâ—r vbi nunc sit Elias c. vel cùm quaeritur vtrum in corâ—ore vel extra corpus in terâ—ium caelum sit raptus Apoâ—olus c. vel quot sunt Caeli c. vel vtrum elementa â—undi huius conspicabilis quatuor an plura sint c. vbi â—otuit Methusalem viuere c. Quis non sentiat in his atâ—e huiusmodi varijs innumerabilibus quaestionibus sine ad â—bscurissima opera Dei siue ad Scripturarum abditissiâ—as latebras pertinentibus quas certo aliquo generâ— complecti ac definire difficile est multa ignorari salua Christiana fide alicubi errari sine aliquo haeretici dogmatis crimine S. Aug. li. 2. cont Pelag. Celest. c. 23. vide Canum li. 5. c. 5. qq 3. 4. 5. other questions which it hath not pleased him by reuelation to discouer as where is Elias where Paradice how many heauens c. not in definition and attestation but in some particular * It is one thing to argue out of reuealed principles and another thing to argue out of others Of this later kind of deduction I speake heere deduction and coniecture she doth inferre amisse Not euerie consequence orillation not euerie thing syllogisticallie inferd out of premises in matter of that nature hath infallibilitie according to this Author but the definitions and decrees all haue it If you knowe not yet the difference betwixt the one and the other you may reade him or Canus or looke vpon the Acts of the Councells where you may with litle studie discerne it If it be replied that in his fourth Controuersie he seemes to limit and contract the obiect of assistance to points onlie fundamentall excluding all other I answer that euen k Docendi infallibilitas in causa fidei Ecclesiae data taÌ„tummodo in illis fidei dogmatibus infallibiliter definiendis fideli populo ceâ—ta veritate tradeÌ„dis locum habet quae vel in coÌ„trouersiam vocantur vel alioqui ad publicaÌ„ Ecclesiae fidem necessariò pertinent Staplet fid doc li. 8. c. 15. Quando de ijs quaestionibus quae vel non necessariò ad fidem pertineÌ„t c. vel non ad publicum aliquod commune dogma explicandum quod vel omnes fideles explicitè crederè debent vel in publico religionis vsu versatur vel saltem maiores explicitè credere tenentur populus autem implicitè in maiorum fide sed ad priuatam alicuius c. Ibidem there he doth extend it to all points of faith which either are called into controuersie at any time wherein the Church is or otherwise doe necessarilie appertaine to the publike faith of the Church In which compasse is contained all that is in the Councell of Trent defined against you or in any other oecumenicall Councell proposed to be beleeued Your masters Luther Caluin and others called into question diuers things appertaining and intrinsecallie as parts to the substance or obiect of diuine faith and publike exercise of Religion as bookes of holie scripture iustification Sacraments and the Masse And therefore if according to Stapleton the Churches infallibilitie doth reach vnâ—â— all points of faith called into question it is according to the same tenet extended vnto these which he beleeued so to pertaine to faith But in questions that are impertineÌ„t or * Such as some aboue pag. 97. litter i. in marg indifferent or that appertaine onlie to the direction of some one that is weake in iudgment and in some priuate case or to the satisfaction of some proude mans curiositie to conclude in questions that appertaine to the explicatioÌ„ of those things which are appendices additions rather then contained in or appertaining to the substance of faith if the Church should mistake it were not he thinks any preiudice to the graunt of assistance or the promised infallibilitie not if in matter of this nature she should affirme or discoursing as a Diuine which in her examination of difficulties otherwhile she doth should inferre and logicallie l Vel asserendo vel etiam concludendo Ibidem conclude amisse But to make a publike decree of that which is false and propose it openlie to be beleeued of Christians as matter of faith that she cannot being in her publike decrees 〈◊〉 definition infallible as you heard him saie before And the same he hath proued at large both by Scripture and Theologicall reasons in diuers m Doc. fi li 8. c 12. 13 Relect. cont 3. q 4 cont 4. q. 2. alibi places of his booke §. IX 1. Saint Augustine will not haue any other bookes equalled with Scripture in authoritie 2. Other witnesses or testimonies of other nature then that of Scripture and not recommended by it or by the author of it wee be not obliged to in that manner as wee are obliged to beleeue the Scripture 3. The comparison of Scripture with other writings in authoritie His forbearing to presse an Arian with the authoritie of the Councell of Nice 4. The Donatists refusing to yeild vnto the authoritie of the whole Church Catholike and consequentlie of her Councells too and admitting Scripture he doth challeng them to shew there the decision of the Controuersie which was betwixt them and him 5. He did both auouch and relie vpon the authoritie of plenarie Councells esteeming them to be in their decrees of faith infallible What mending that is which he speakes of EGo solis eis Scriptorum qui iam caâ—onici appellantur didics hunc timorem honoremque deferre vt nullum eorum scribendo errasse audeam credere
A RELECTION OF CERTAINE AVTHORS That are pretended to disauow THE CHVRCHES INFALLIBILITIE IN HER GENERALL DECREES OF FAITH BY F. E. Acts 15. It hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to vs. AT DOWAY By the widdow of MARK WYON at the golden Phoenix 1635. TO THE RIGHT-WORSHIPFVLL MY WORTHIE FREIND M. S. N. MVCH HONOVRED SIR WHEN I receaued from you the last rich token I promised to returne a letter full of thanks But being then vpon a iourney found not meanes to send and so failed in my dutie Whereby my obligation was doubled to pay the debt that first and then to satisfie for the fault In discharge of both which if you please to accept of these few printed leaues you shall oblige anewe Your thankfull freind and seruant F. E. To M. S. A. SIR WHen a doubt is proposed out of a desire to knowe the truth I must not being called vpon be wanting to professe what I haue learned and do beleeue but if it comes out of a curious humor of contradicting I can dispose of my time better then to spend it in disputes What your mind is you reserue as your secret yet not so secret neither but that I perceaue something of it Your deliberation might I be of your counsell should quicklie be concluded He takes the safe way that followes the direction of the Church That Church I meane which all times could point at and which all Hereticks haue opposed You know that neither a Mar. vlt. Ioan. 3. Apoc. 21. Tim. 3. Galat 5. vide S. Aug. li. 4. con Donat Hereticks nor b 1. Cor. 12 Col. 2. Gal. 5. Vide S. Aug. Ep. 152. de vnit Eccl. c. 4. Firmissimè tene nullatenus dubites non solum omnes Paganos sed etiam omnes Iudaos Haereticos atque Schismaticos qui extra Ecclesiam CatholicaÌ„ praesentem finiuÌ„t vitam in ignem aternum ituros qui paratus est diabolo angelis eius S. Fulg. de Fide ad Pet. c. 38. inter Op. S. Aug. t. 3. Of the grieuousnes of the crime of Schisme see S. Aug. li. 2. contra Donatistas Schismatiks one wanting charitie the other faith too be in state of saluation These and such like things you can weigh your self And where the minde is not ill disposed the resolution is most easie Prudence neuer sticks at such a matter If your hinderance be that onlie which is insinuated I shall willinglie shew you how you may remoue it Go the Catholike waie that is secure Seeke no by-waies Suppose you might be made Arch-bishop of Canterburie vpon condition that you would go to LaÌ„beth on foote and that there were some danger yet no great daÌ„ger neither of loosing your purse without further harme if you tooke the common way ouer the bridge Would you stay till winter that you might go without that difficultie in greater perill and then hearing Themse to be frozen presentlie before they durst venture who told you so take your iourney ouer the ice A wise man would not veÌ„ture his life and all in that manner to saue two or three ten or tweÌ„tie peices being presentlie to receaue a thousand if he came to Lambeth safe and euer after to liue in great aboundance Yet your case is more desperate You know that in heauen you shall receaue at your entrance the possession of an eternall kingdome with a crowne of glorie amongst Angels in immortalitie The common way thither is the Catholike which way if you take you coÌ„ceaue the danger of being a little taxed in your purse and you think you heare some tell you there is an other waie but nice and ticklish wherein those who speak themselues durst not venture because if it miscarrie soule and bodie and Heauen and all is lost by a fault of c Quisquis ab hac Catholica Ecclesia fuerit separatus quaÌ„tumlibet laudabiliter se viuere existimet hoc solo scelere quod à Christi vnitate disiunctus est non habebit vitam sed ira Dei maret super eum S. August Epist. â—52 Schisme which opens into a downefall that ends not but where there is no end at all in Hell To venture your bodie ouer a deepe riuer vpon a bridge of thinne brittle glasse and to venture your soule ouer Hell-mouth vpon a ticklish opinion which is worse He that loueth danger the Scripture saith shall perish in it Eccles â— What speake I of an opinion When your imagination doth cease from working no bridge at all appeares you are but in a dreame But were there two or three who did against the rest and against the knowne practice of the Church auouch what you pretend would you venture your soule whilst worlds of learned men bid you take heed vpon their word Perpetuall torment among the damned spirits is a matter of that horrour that wisedome would seeke the safest waie to decline it and he that could see heauen a far of with those inexplicable â—oyes that are in it would think on nothing els but the securest way thither and feare nothing more then to misse it Were you to purchase a temporall estate or inheritance for your child you would not venture your mony vpon a title which the practice of the kingdome doth dislike and which Lawiers commonlie say is naught though two or three should tell you that it were a good title much lesse in securing to your owne soule an eternall inheritance should you be contented to relie vpon the Authoritie of two or three were there such the rest with the generall Spirit Gods people contradicting and anathematizing such as proceede in that manner That Catholikes are against you generallie in this pointâ— you know They communicate not with those who dâ— openlie oppose themselues to the decrees of Councels oecumenicall The Councels themselues excommunicate and anathematize them also And as manie graue Prelates and learned Deuines as euer esteemed their authoritie sufficient to determine a Controuersie and oblige men to conforme their iudgment therevnto who be innumerable so manie do counsell you not to trust vnto these fewe suppose you found them telling you that if you do you forfaite heauen When a fewe reputed Schollers were they many were it a whole Nation hold a tenet that is against the Church their Authoritie doth not make it Probabilia sunt quae videÌ„tur omnibus aut plurimis aut sapientibus his vel omnibus velplurimis vel maximè familiaribus probatis Arist li. 1. Topic c. 1. Nonomne quod videtur probabile est probabile Ibidem probable The truth of her assertions dependeth not vppon the approbation of euerie one that is in her Communion Much lesse of others The Pastors are to teach and if some of them do chance to forgoe the truth and leaue it there is power in the * You remember the practice of the Church in her first Councells against Arians Nestorians c. rest to define the matter and condemne theÌ„
de biblioth wald Cyâ— not without cause extolles the Româ— faith when expounding those wâ— portae inferi non praeualebunt teâ— Peter quoth he it is said the gates 〈◊〉 Hell shall not preuaile against it 〈◊〉 Church according to this promiseâ— our Lord the Apostolicall Church of â—ter remaines cleane from all misleadâ— and hereticall circumuention aboue 〈◊〉 the Prelates and Bishops and aboue Primates of Churches and of Aposâ— in her chiefe Pastors in most abundâ— faith and in the Authoritie of Peâ— and whereas other Churches are compâ—d with errour she alone established â—moueablie doth raigne imposing siâ—ace and stopping the mouthes of all Heâ—tickes and wee by necessitie of saluation not by pride deceaued nor inebriaâ—d with the wine of pride doe acknowledge and professe openlie with her the â—me of truth and Apostolicall tradition Hereby appeares what Walâ—nsis thought of the Church of â—ome and by those words secunâ—m Domini professionem and those â—abilita inquassabiliter he sawe which himselfe had professed dd Non potest in fide deficere vt suprà â—efore that this immunitie and hoâ—our was to continue And by this â—nd much more which you may â—ade in that Chapter where the thing 〈◊〉 professedlie discoursed of I â—aue as manifest that you did mistake him in your first pretenâ—e which was about the Church of Rome Non quidem generali Synodo conâ—egata quam ee SuÌ„prà ad li. q. aliquoties errasse â—rcepimus velut illa Ariminensis â—ngregata sub Tauro praefecto illa â—onstantinopolitana sub Iustiniano miâ—ore tempore Sergij Papae secuudum Bedam quaedam aliae Here againe you will haue the thing disputed what he denies of a synod and what he affirmes He denies that it is the symbolicall Church this is plaine by the coherence of the discourse as I declared before He affirmes of generall Synods that some haue erred as the Constantinopolitan vnder Iustinian the Ariminian vnder Taurus and some others Whence it followes that the Church so assembled is not the symbolicall Church for that neuer erreth Holie diuine faith is in her essence and therefore as her essence or being cannot faile no more can her faith She hath fidem indefectibilem such a faith as by reason of our Sauiours ff Matth. 16. care cannot be deficient and without exception of any time without admitting corruption to the preiudice of her integritie she retaines the truth euer gg Suprà pag. 49. steedfast whereas a Councell or assemblie may be corrupted and want integritie as appeares in those which he speakes of Moreouer there are vnder the name of Generall Councells as appeares by him in this place and elswhere some that are sincere some that are not That of Nice was sincere and was generall that of Constantinople vnder Iustinian was not sincere yet is it here putt in the number of those which he calls generall The infallibilitie of such as are sincere and approued by the successor of S. Peter the Pope wee maintaine the infallibilitie of all that are vnder the name of generall wee doe not Neither doth Waldensis contradict vs in the former part which is of the sincere and approued He saith indeed that some which goe by the name of generall haue erred you may adde if you please that others like them hereafter may But your argument will not hold Some therefore all Some men stagger in their faith men denie God sometimes you are not wise if you vnderstand this of all men or of wise men When Wickleff obiected as you doe hh walden to 1. li. 2. c. 26. Peccauit scimus Ariminense Concilium peccauit Nicenum Thraciae the Ariminian Councell wee know did amisse and so did the Nicene of Thrace The author the same whose authoritie you are medling with answers peccauit vtique magnus exercitus Angelorum c. a great armie verilie of Angells did amisse yea and the holie number of Apostles euen in apostacie after they had receaued the faith before the comming of the holie Ghost the spirit of truth to teach them all truth and yet neither is the companie of other Angels therefore depriued of their felicitie nor the assemblie of the Apostles regularlie without doubt of the principalitie of the Church nor a generall Councell of its authoritie Thus in the 26. Chapter and in the next which is the 27. he deliuers his minde touching the matter whereof wee are disputing in these words Non dubitat Ecclesia sancta Dei toties assistere sibi Spiritum sanctum quoties congregati fuerint authoritate plenario in nomine Christi ad fidei dubium resoluendum The holie Church of God doubteth not that the holie Ghost assistes her as oft as they by full authoritie be assembled in the name of Christ to resolue a doubt of faith This was not onelie certaine with him but it is he saith a thing which the Catholike Church holds as a matter out of question non dubitat she doubts not of it And a litle after Plenarijs Concilijs Ecclesiae si tamen maneant incorrupta Spiritus sanctus adest definit de fide The holie Ghost is present vnto plenarie or generall Councells of the Church if so they continue sincere or perfect and doth define of faith And if this be so then not exteriour onlie as some would shift it of but interiour obedience is due to the decree for such obedience wee owe to the holie Ghost who is present assisting as was before said and as it is further heere expressed doth make the definition definit And consequentlie this Author had reason to saie as he doth in the same Chapter afterwards that it ii Multitudini ergo credentium est potius adhaereduÌ„ quae cum claruerit quod in Christi nomine coÌ„gregetur ab eius decreto vnanimi non nisi cum periculo declinatur c. 27. is daungerous to swarue from such decrees To this purpose in the Chapter whence you dispute he ponders those words of the first Councell assembled in Hierusalem which gaue the forme to all others and taught them how to vnderstand our Sauiours ll Ioh. 14. 16. promise It hath seemed good to the holie Ghost and to vs. mm waeldendens to 1. li. 2. c. 19. marke saith he they said not it seemed good to the holie Ghost and the Church but to the holie Ghost and to vs who heere doe represent the Church and yet not to vs without the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost in himselfe and to the * when this authoritie comes in the fortè sic and fortè noÌ„ haue no place The Holie Ghost cannot be deceaued What he doth auouch is most certaine Remouentur dubitationes Be mindfull of this note when you come to S. Aug. holie Ghost in vs in the Church who in doubts of faith is neuer wanting to the Church Christ promising to her the holie Ghost shall teach you all truth And therefore what seemeth good to him the same
Panormitans doctrine of the Pope Councels and vniuersall Church or as the Minister speakes imbracing it Whereas he doth onlie recite Panormitans words Notat Abbas de Sicilia quòd c. and hauing repeated them concludes haec ille So passing immediatlie to another Petrus de Ancharano c. without more adoe Yet since you will needes confound their opinions in this matter and make them both one one and the Deuine rather the matter appertaining to Deuinitie may deliuer it for them both which he doth in this tenour Antoninus m Ad illum pertinet Sanctum canonizare ad quem pertinet quaestiones fidei determinare Quod quidem planuÌ„ est spectare ad Summum PoÌ„tificem S. Antoninus in summa p. 3. tit 22. c. 5. §. 5 lege etiam si placet §. 3. eiusdem tit Apostoli in Euangelijs Epistolis affirmaueruÌ„t in omni doctrina Petrum esse loco Domini Idem c. 6. §. 7. ex Cyrillo Quaeritur vtrum authoritas vniuersalis Ecclesiae in determinatione fidei principaliter resideat in Papa Respondet S. Thomas affirmatiue 2. 2. q. 11. a. 2. ad 3. Postquam aliqua essent authoritate vniuersalis Ecclesiae determinata si quis tali ordinationi pertinaciter repugnaret haereticus censeretur Quae quidem authoritas principaliter residet in Summo Pontifice Dicitur enim 24. q. 1. Quoties fidei ratio ventilatur arbitror omnes fratres nostros coepiscopos non nisi ad Petrum id est ad sui nominis authoritatem referri debere caetera vsque finem vt habentur in S. Thoma loco cit S. Antoninus c. citato §. 19. Sancti Patres in Concilio congregati nihil statuere potuissent nisi authoritate Summi Pontificis interueniente sine qua etiam Concilium congregari non potest §. 20. ex codem S. Thom. li contra impugn relig To him appertaines the canonizing of Saints to whom it belongeth to determine questions touching the faith which manifestlie appertaines vnto the Pope n The question is whether the Authoritie of the vniuersall Church in determination of faith reside principallie in the Pope Saint Thomas they be Antoninus his words which I relate answers affirmatiuelie that after things be determined by the authoritie of the vniuersall Church if any stubbornelie resist or withstand that ordination he should be esteemed an Heretick Which Authoritie is chieflie in the Pope And to this tenet of Saint Thomas Antoninus there subscribeth denying to the the Bishops power to ordaine in this manner or to call a Councell to this purpose without the Popes Authoritie o Concilium non solum comprehendit Papam vt caput quod est principale in Concilijs sed etiam reliquum corpus Ecclesiae vt alios Praelatos de quo Concilio inquit Propheta Non abscondi misericordiam tuam veritatem tuam à Concilio multo Idem tit 23. c. 1. A Councell doth not include onlie the Pope as Head which is chiefe in Councels but the rest of the bodie withall as other Prelates Of which Councell the Prophet saith I haue not hid thy mercie and thy truth from a great Councell p A Concilijs vanitatis malignitatis abscondit Deus misericordiam veritatem sed non abscondit à Concilio multorum sc tendentium ad vnum c. Ibidem §. 1. From Councels of vanitie and malignitie God doth hïde his mercie and his truth but he hideth them not from the Councell of many tending vnto one c. q Ea quae statuuntur in huiusmodi Concilijs generalibus omnes fideles astringunt Idem eod tit cap. 2. in principio things constituted in such generall Councels oblige all the faithfull §. V. 1. Cusanus held the infallibilitie of generall decrees 2. The words obiected out of him against vs are indeed plainely for vs as in the reading of them they are at leingth in the Addition it doth appeare CArdinalis Cusanus in Concilijs generalibus ad hoc vt eorum decreta à nobis acceptentur tanquam certa infallibilia quasdam conditiones requirit c. Baâ—o p 368. 1. CVSANVS This man is brought to teach vs and to teach the whole Church the conditions of a generall Councell as if none were good but such as he liked of and approued he was a yonge man when he wrote his booke and a Finit collectio c. quam sacro huic Basiliensi Concilio cum omni humilitate offero nihil in omnibus veruÌ„ aut defendendum pro vero iudicans seu assereÌ„s nisi quod ipsa sancta Synodus catholicum verum iudicauerit Cusanus in fine CoÌ„cordantiae suae Catholicae earnest for the Councell of Basill though he changed his minde b Vide eiusdem Epist ad Rodericum da Treuino afterwards Neither is the Question heere what be the conditions of a Councell but Whether a generall Councell which hath all conditions that are necessarie and is by the Pope approued be assisted to the definition of the truth and be infallible in which matter wee shall easilie knowe Cusanus his minde In the third chapter which you cite he recites the words of Nicolas the first terming such decrees c Idem li. 2. de Concord c. 3. diuinitus inspiratas sententias sentences inspired by God And after of himselfe he saith d Ibidem si concordanti sententia aliquid fuerit definitum per Spiritum Sanctum censetur inspiratum per Christum in medio congregatorum in eius nomine praesidentem infallibiliter iudicatum If any thing be defined by an agreeing Sentence it is esteemed inspired by the holy Ghost and iudged or determined by Christ praesiding in the middes of them that are assembled in his name This he declares in the Councell of Nice whereof the great e Conc. Chalc. act 1. Councell of Chalcedon saith that the holie Ghost did did there certainlie remaine or sitt amongst the Fathers and ordaine the things which were there ordained And then concludes f Cusan c. 3. vt suprà talia fuerunt omnia orthodoxa Concilia such haue bene all Councells orthodoxall As for the conditions he speakes of none which he thought necessarie be wanting in those generall Councells which wee maintaine The presence of the fiue Patriarkes he doth not require but when they be Catholik nor then neither but for the more fullnes of the Councell Others may be perfect which haue not all but that which hath all is he saith synodus g Ibidem perfectissima most perfect in that kinde One may haue the whole essence of a man all the essentiall parts and yet not be most perfect Our Councells are not made in secret they be assembled and openlie from all parts of the world wheresoeuer the Catholick Church is and such as come may freelie speake and are heard They looke into scriptures and former Councells and Antiquitie to finde the truth and though in the search it might appeare to
confirmed or approued Councells 3. It is a sophisticall proceeding to impugne one veritie with another veritie FAteor equidem quodcunque Concilium generale vniuersalem Ecclesiam representare Sed dum vrges Ecclesiam errare non posse verum est in eo sensu qui à fidelibus accipitur Intelligimus enim totam simul Ecclesiam hoc est fideles omnes non errare at nihil obstat cur maior Ecclesia pars non erret Baro p. 381. ex Cano. loc 5. c. 5. CANVS Is pretended to contradict vs though he be knowne to maintaine the Councells infallibilitie such as wee speake of adding withall that the contrarie is hereticall In the fourth Chapter of his fift booke where he treates of that controuersie his third conclusion is a Tertia Conclusio Concilium generale confirmatuÌ„ authoritate Romani Pontificis certam fidem facit Catholicorum dogmatuÌ„ Quam quidem conclusioneÌ„ ita explorataÌ„ habere opus est vt eius coÌ„trariam haereticam esse credamus Canus li. 5. c 4. A generall Councell confirmed by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome doth make certaine the faith of Catholike tenets Which he there proues with many reasons resoluing also the doubts which Heretikes obiect against it 2. Hauing established that authoritie he disputes further whether 〈◊〉 Councell not confirmed by the Pope hatâ— certaine and firme authoritie or no some learned men b Dubium excutiendum est an Concilium per legatos suÌ„mi PoÌ„tificis celebratum firmam certaÌ„que habeat authoritatem an potius episcopi Romani confirmatio expectaÌ„da sit vt certa habeaÌ„tur decreta CoÌ„cilij Idem c. 5. viri doctissimi doe affirme it because it represents the vniuersall Church which cannot erre Wherevnto Canus answers that the whole Church or an approued Councell which doth perfectlie represent it cannot erre but a part of either may c Ibidem The iudgment saith he of the greater part of the Councell though the Legates follow it is not certaine certum autem esset si a summo Pontifice confirmaretur but if it should be confirmed by the Pope it would be certaine And in the same manner he doth answer to a second argument of assistance made for the same purpose d Ibidem euen as saith he that which seemeth good to the whole Church the same also seemeth good to the holie Ghost but not presentlie what the greater part of the Church shall haue iudged the same is the iudgment of the holie Ghost so if anything be iudged by all the Bishops it is verilie iudged by the spirit of God but not presentlie if many fathers of the Councell agree into one sentence shall it be to be beleeued the sentence of the holie Ghost vnles it be confirmed by the Pope 3. By the waie I obserue here two things one is that if an author interprete those words Ecclesia errare non potest the Church cannot erre of the whole or vniuersall Church it doth not followe that he denies therefore infallibilitie to generall approued Councells which are perfect representations of the Church diffused for this e Simile in S. Antonino obseruare licet de quo suprà Et nota post verba ab aduersarijs citata vt supa pag. 86. seqâ—i immediatè in authore sic igitur non ego admitto vt totum Concilium cuÌ„ legatis errare possit at errare poterit maior pâ—â—s Concâ—lij eâ—â—nti illi poteruÌ„â— le gatis subscribere Aâ— que id est quod nos in praesentia dicimus â—udicium maioris partis etiam si legati sequantur non esse certum certùm autem esset si à summo Pontificeconfirmaretur Nec enim opus est quemad moduÌ„paulò antè docuimus sententiaÌ„ Concilij omnes simul patres approbare Canus li. 5. c. 5 q. â— man whom you cite for the former part doth also maintaine the later And the manner of arguing is indeed absurd because it would impugne one truth by another As if I should saie the whole Gospell of S. Iohn is the vndoubted word of God therefore the first Chapter of it is not And were it admitted it would proue as before I said on the same occasion that euerie Apostle yea all the Apostles and Fathers might haue consented in a grosse yea and in the most fundamentall errour because they be not the whole and vniuersall Church The other thing which I obserue is that without sinceritie or conscience you doe make vse of mens words contrarie to their knowne professed meaning and intention which proceeding especiallie in matter of religion is inexcusable The like obseruation I might haue made in Antoninus who is alleaged against that which he did openlie maintaine §. VIII 1. Stapleton did acknowledge degrees of extension in diuine assistance and maintaine the infallibilitie of the Church in her publike decrees of faith 2. To be obnoxious to errour in matters not reuealed doth not any way impeach the promise of assistance and infallibilitie in all that doth intrinsecallie appertaine to the substance of diuine faith QVando de ijs quaestionibus quae vel non necessariò ad fidem pertinent sed salua fidei compage variè a varijs intelligâ— possunt c. consulitur vel obiter disputat Ecclesia aberrare aliquando poterit c. ex Stap. 1. STAPLETON is brought as if he gaue no more to the Church and her Councells then Protestants doe because he doth not maintaine their infallibilitie in curious subtilities and questions indifferent vnto faith nor thinke it so ample in obiect as was that of the Apostles Where first it is to be considered that as in faith or science so likewise in assistance or infallibilitie more or lesse extension doth not change the nature of the thing Mathematicall science in one is more extended then in another one knowes more conclusions then another doth yet is it in both of the same nature The light of glorie in all the Saints is of the same Species and kinde as the Deuines teach though one by it knowes more another lesse Faith in vs and in the Apostles before and since the Incarnation is of the same nature but more extended in the Apostles then in vs and since the incarnation more generallie then it was before The like wee saie of assistance or infallibilitie in iudgment it hath been more extended in some then in others more at one time then at another Secondlie it is to be considered that the Apostles who did write scripture had infallibilitie in a Singuli Apostoli de omnibus plenissimè à Deo instructierant ita vt eorum quilibet de quocunque dogmate ad fidem siuè necessariò siue noÌ„ necessariò pertinente pronunciare potuisset idquetanta certitudine vt non solum pastores essent fidelissimi sed etiaÌ„ magistri peritissimi omniaque etiam subtilissima circa fidei mysteria penerarent Staeplet de princip fidei Doctrinal li. 8. c. 15. Quod autem de Apostolis modo diximus
superare Omnium enim Haereticorum quasi regularis est ista temeritas Sed ille fidei imperator clementissimus per conuentus celeberrimos populorum atque gentium sedesque ipsas Apostolorum arce authoritatis muniuit Ecclesiam per pauciores piè doctos verè spirituales viros copiosissimis apparatibus etiam inuictissimae rationis armauit S. Aug. Epist ad Diosc 56. reason against the Church to the end they may seeme to bring something greater for to oppresse or ouercome her authoritie as S. Augustine well obserued long agoe And by the like stratagem did the pagaÌ„s heeretefore striue to withdraw men whollie from the Creede by shewing the contrarie so cleerelie that no doubt as they pretended could be made of it which was a way they thought to get qq In Catholica me tenet consensio populorum atque gentium c. apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit praeponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in catholica teneor Si autem tantummodo promittitur non exhibetur nemo me mouebit ab ea fide quae animum meum tot tantis nexibus Christianae religionis astringit S. Aug. contra Epist Manich. Fundam c. 4. Promittebaâ— scientiam veritatis nunc quod nescio cogis vt credam c. 5. Multò iustiùs cautiùs facio si catholicis quoniam semel credidi ad te non transeo nisi me non credere iusteris sed manifestissimè ac apertissimè scire aliquid feceris Quocirca si mihi rationem redditùrus es dimitte Euangelium Si ad Euangelium me tenes ego ad eos me teneam quibus praecipientibus Euangelio credidi his iubentibus tibi omnino non ctedam Quod si fortè in Euangelio aliquod apertissimum de Manichaei apostolatu inuenire potueris infirmabis mihi catholicorum authoritatem qui iubent mihi vt tibi non credam Qua infirmata iam nec Euangelio credere potero c. Sed absit vt ego Euangelio non credam Ibidem schollers but it proued a meere bragge §. X. 1. Optatus cited his Aduersaries who refused to submitte them selues to the Church to be tryed by the Testament admitted by themselues But the cause it self was in the iudgment of the whole Catholike world to be decided in a Councell and was in fine so determined 2. For finding out the truth in matter of faith recourse is to be made to the fountaine VOs dicitis licet nos non licet inter licet vestrum non licet nostrum nutant remigant animi populorum Nemo vobis credat nemo nobis omnes contentiosi homines sumus Esto Quaerendi sunt iudices si Christiani de vtraque parte dari non possunt quia studijs veritas impeditur Deforis quaerendus est Iudex si paganus non potest nosse Christiana secreta si Iudaeus inimicus est Christiani baptismatis Ergo in terriâ— nullum de hac re reperiri poâ—erit iudictum de caelo quaerendus est Iudex Sed vt quid palsamus ad caelum cum habeamus hic in Euangelio testamentum Baro p. 328. ex Optato 1. HAuing answered what was obiected out of S. Augugustine he will vndertake for vs to satisfie that you bring from Optatus and where he lookes about for a Iudge to decide the controuersie moued by the Donatists this great Doctour doth answer yea the a S. Aâ—g contra Donatiâ—tas passim Specialiter vide li. 2. de Bapt c. 7 li 5. c. 23. li. 1. coâ—t Cresc c. 31. 32 whole Catholike world did agree that the matter was to be defined in Councell and that not by cleere scripture there was none but by tradition By the testament yes not the written but the nuncupatiue By the holie Ghost c S Aug suprà inter citat ex Ock lit 1. a iudge from heauen but speaking b in a Councell The whole world did iudge that this verie Controuersie whereof Optatus speakes was to be determined so and accordinglie it was so determined and ended Neither doth Optatus denie that which all Catholikes when Saint Augustine wrote graunted and he himselfe yeelded as much of the c Serpit corum sermo vâ—lut cancer dixit hoc de haereticis quorum caeperat esse illis temporibus vitiosa doctrina c. Dictum est hoc de Arrio cuius doctrina nisi Nicaeno Concilio à 318. Episcopis dissiparetur pectora multorum sicut cancer intrauerat Optat. Milleu li. 4. Nicene Councell of whose authoritie wee shall presentlie heare more from S. Anathasius who was in it that the Church which hath promise of assistance or the Pastors all assembled in a CouÌ„cell those whom the holie Ghost hath placed to gouerne and our Sauiour hath giuen to keepe vs from being borne about with euerie winde of doctrine haue power to determine a controuersie in Religion But the Donatists excepting against the Catholikes as parties in the cause he betakes himselfe to scripture against which being admitted on both sides that pretended exception had no place children that contend about a Legacie both admit their father testament and if there his words decide the controuersie they rest and so he pleades the Donatists must do when the words of our Sauiours will or testament be showed vnles they proceede as they had denied Church-authoritie so to denie that and him So on he goes to shewe the thing inscripture But what if the words of the testameÌ„t be obscure The matter then requires a Iudge and this Iudge must haue authoritie and assistance if the case be as this was about diuine faith which assistance none hath but by vertue of our Sauiours promise and his promise was made to none but to the Church not to Pagans nor heretikes but to the Church wherefore the Church is to iudge Yet further what if the words of the testament haue it not at all the question was Whether one baptized by an heretike was to be baptized againe when he came into the Church The answer to which Question you doe not finde in scripture the d Qui lotus est c. place which Optatus brings doth not mention such as were baptized by heretikes There is not in all scripture Saint Augustine saies an e Quamuia huius rei certè de scripturis canonicis non proferatur exemplum c. S. Aug. li. cont Cresc c. 33 vt suprà Apostoli nihil quidem exinde praeceperunt sed consuetudo illa quae opponebatur Cypriano ab eorum traditione exordium sumpsisse credenda est sicut sunt multa quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ob hoc ab Apostolis praecepta benè creduÌ„tur quanquam scripta non reperian tur li. 5. de bapt c. 23. Cùm in Scripturis non inueniamus aliquos c. De vnitate
quâ—d antiquitus abomnibus Ecclesiae Catholicae Sacerdotibus vniuersalis Concilij authoritate decretum Deinde si qua noua c. c. 41. ExeÌ„pluÌ„ adhibuimus SaÌ„cti CoÌ„ciliâ— quod antè trienmum fermè in Asia apud Ephesum celebratum est c. Vniuersis Sacerdotibus qui illò ducenti feré conuenerant c. omnes verò Catholicos sacerdotes fuisse c. c. 42. Wee haue said that in the antiquitie of the Church two things are greatlie and with greate diligence to be obserued quibus wherevnto all those must adhere steedfastlie that will not be hereticks why do you start first of all if any thing should be auncientlie defined with the authoritie of an oecumenicall Councell by all the Priests of the Catholick Church and next if any new question should arise wherein that were not found recourse to be made to the opinions or sentences of holie Fathers those onelie who euerie one in their owne time and place were found to be approued masters continuing still in the vnitie of communion and faith and what soeuer they be found to haue held with one and the same meaning and consent that without all scruple should be iudged the true and Catholike doctrine of the Church Here besides the faith and profession of the Church symbolicall or vniuersall be two other rules wherevnto all that will not be flat heretiks must of necessitie conforme themselues the decrees of oecumenicall Councells and the vniforme consent of Fathers I leaue you now to compare your condition with his opinion What he deliuers in this matter is not his doctrine alone c. 1. That you conceaue him the better he presentlie brings for instance or example the proceedings of the Councell of Ephesus held l c. 42. three yeares no more before he wrote this booke wherein Nestorius was condemned the anathematismes of the Councell you may see when you please It is worth the noting by the way for it is your practise too and indeed of all hereticks that Nestorius as he relates in the end of the chapter renounced the authoritie of the Church in deciding controuersies affirming m c. 43. totam etiam nunc errare semper errasse Ecclesiam that the whole Church euen now in the time of the Councell doth erre and alwaies hath erred In the last chapter of all he brings in the authoritie of the See Apostolike and in fine concludes his booke If neither Apostolicall definitions nor Ecclesiasticall decrees whereby according to the sacred consent of vniuersalitie and antiquitie all Heretikes euer and in fine Pelagius Caelestius Nestorius haue been deseruedlie condemned be to be violated it is necessarie verilie that all Catholikes hereafter which haue a care to shewe themselues lawfull children of the mother-Church be associated and close ioyned vnto the faith of the holie Fathers and so insist that they die in it and that they detest abhorre speake against persecute the prophane nouelties of prophane men §. XIII Exceptions against a text or two refuted THE last Opposition which you make is against two of the places of Scripture which our Deuines bring to confirme the Councels infallibilitie These also least you conceaue there is difficultie I will consider as farre as your Opposition goes though otherwise not meddling with the Question de Iure which you finde in our Deuines discussed at large and then make an end The one of these places containes our Sauiours promise of the Holie Ghosts assistance made vnto the Church The Spirit of Truth when he comes shall teach you all truth Ioan. 14. 16. The other of the places represents vnto vs the interpretation of the forsaid promise as it was vnderstood by the Apostles who relying on it met in Councell and there defined a Controuersie It hath seemed good to the Holie Ghost and to vs. Acts 15. Against the former place you saie first that it is meant of the Apostles onlie This is false for it is foreuer I will aske my father and he will giue you another comforter that he remaine with you for euer the Spirit of truth And apud vos manebit he shall remaine with you Io. 14. the Catholike Church is his mysticall bodie which cannot subsist without his Spirit and for confirmation and illustration of her faith not onelie in the Apostles time when our Sauiour was gone but euer since after they be gonne she needs assistance of the Spirit Neither was it his minde to leaue the faithfull without such comfort non relinquam vos orphanos Ioh. 14. I will not leaue you orphans O father establish confirme sanctifie them in the truth I aske not for them onlie Ioh. 17. the Apostles but for the Church for those which by their word shall beleeue in me That by thy prouidence for my sake in our Spirit all be as it were one and agree to their proportion as wee doe who doe iudge and approue still the same But tell me hath the Spirit left the Church or is he still in it if he hath left it how hath she supernaturall operations how doth she beleeue the diuine word how doth she subsist as the Gospell saith she shall notwithstanding all the endeuours of hell it selfe Mat. 16. If he doth remaine in it it is then true that the promise holds still euen that which was made vnto the Church in the Apostles time and began first to be fulfilled in them The greatest promises in all the Scripture be two one of God the Father to send his sonne to redeeme the world the other of God the Sonne to send the holie Ghost his spirit to teach and instruct his Church if you doe not beleeue the later is performed you will giue vs cause to thinke that you would euacuate the former too and not trust God at all in his promise nor in his couenant neither though so farre you trust one another Ierem. 35. Ezech. 37. I will giue my lawe in their bowels and in their hart I will write it and I will be their God and they shall be my people My Spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth Isa 59. shall not depart out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of the seed of thy seed saith our Lord from this present and foreuer See the Disp li. 3. Secondlie you saie that it is not to be vnderstood of all the dogmaticall points or doctrine by our Sauiour reuealed and deliuered vnto the Church but of some points onlie â—hose which are expressed in the Apostles Creed and not necessarilie of all those neither Here againe you doe manifestlie contradict the text of Scripture and open the waie to let errour and heresie into the Church For if the holie Ghost teach no more by the promise of our Sauiour then those fewe points it is impossible for men to knowe the truth touching other reuealed verities though they be necessarie to be knowne
Docete Matt. vlt. This Catholikes do know they be grounded they take the secure way The way which you take is temerarious it is the same which Heresie doth vsuallie take to spred it self And in making choise of it you shew in your self the disposition of a Sectarie The Sectarie findes an opinion auouched by two or three against the common and against the Spirit of the Church generallie yet because it likes him for that it is easier to be conceaued or more agreeable to some phantasie that he hath or better suting to the libertie which he could wish he is coÌ„tent to â—hink the authoritie of those â—â—o or three though the â—â—st contradict sufficient to â—ake is probable and then iudâ—ng of the reasons and motiâ—es which they bring as his â—â—fections incline him he thinks 〈◊〉 at last certaine So did the â—rians depending vpon the â—uthoritie first of their leaâ—ers and then deeming their â—otiue as that pater maior me 〈◊〉 to be manifestlie against the Church and for them Neither be the Leaders themselues Arch-heretickes wiâ—â—out pretence of authoritie they cite the d Fortasse aliquisinterroget An Haeretici diuinae Scripturae testimonijs vtantur Vtuntur planè vehemeÌ„ter quidem nam videas eos volate per singulaquae que sanctae legis volumina per Moysi per Regum volumina per Psalmos per Apostolos per Euangelia per Prophetas Siue enim apud suos siue alienos siue priuatim siue publice siue in sermonibus siue in libris siue in conuiuijs siue in plateis nihil vnquam paenè de suo proferuÌ„t quod non etiam Scripturae verbâ—s adumbrare conentur Vinc. lirin c. 35. Si quis interroget queÌ„piam Haereâ—â—corum sibi talia persuadentem vnde probas vnde doces quod Ecclesiae Catholicae Vniuersalem antiquam fidem dimittere debeam Statim ille mille testimonia mille exempla mille authoritates parat de lege de psalmis de apostolis de prophetis quibus nouo malo more interpretatis ex arce Catholica in Haereseôs barathrum infoelix anima praecipitetur Idem c. 37. vbi ostendit eos à diabolo moduÌ„ istum didicisse Scriptum est enim Scriptures â—â—d gleane obscure speaches â—t of auncient good writers which in shewe do make for them When a man once takes this â—ay he squares out his Religion to himself or rather he runnes out of all from one thing to another from more to fewer points or articles from that he calls probable to lesse and yet lesse and lesse probable till at last is he findes himself most certainlie in Hell Faith is a firme assent but his if well examined is not so It is not diuine faith he doth but flatter himself and deceaue others with a shadow If two or three tell him thatâ— Councell may mistake though the rest auouch the contrarie he is content to think it may and heereupon presentlie doubts of all that is so defined Then further proceeding iâ— the same sillie motiue if thâ— whole Church auouch a thing yet so as some two or three at some time or other held thâ— contrarie he will not beleeâ—â— the Church neither No nor the Apostles if any tell him they might erre A Rainolds a Whittakers authoritie makes the contrarie to him probable and by that time he hath read their bookes he thinkes himself certaine of it But in the meane while where is the faith of such a man wherevnto doth he giue a firme assent To the Scriptures No their authoritie who denied them makes him doubt To the Creed nor so the authoritie of two or three serues his turne and there is nothing in the Creede that more then two or three haue not refused Arianisme Nestorianisme Sabellianisme Eutichianisme Pelagianisme Lutheranisme Swinglianisme all great Heresies haue had multitudes of abbetâ—ors whereas two or three serue his turne Where then is his religion in his mouth peraduenture but in his heart well examined there is none Others there be not so readie to relie indifferentlie vpon the Authoritie of any whatsoeuer esteemed learned but determined extreamelie vnto one The Puritan for example to Iohn Caluin whom he prefers before the rest all together Wherein he shewes himself as extrauagantlie peccant against the light of nature as the former AmoÌ„gst the many principes or Axiomes which reason dictates to the Prudent this is one that in matters of beleefe the greatest Authoritie must sway our vnderstanding He will not denie that this is true he might as well denie the sunne shines at middaie but his manner of proceeding doth inuolue a deniall of it The authoritie of a Councell entirelie oecumenicall is greater then the Authoritie of one single man The greatest â—chollers haue euer stooped to 〈◊〉 yet the Puritan rather beleeues Caluin then such a Councell Yea rather then all the knowne Churches in the world though e Though some now disseÌ„t as you for example yet these points haue had the consent of all Christian Churches as many as beleeued that our B. Sauiour had true flesh and blood consenting As in the matter of the Masse vnbloodie Sacrifice reall Presence And what way is there think you to deale with such a man or to what end is it to dispute with him If you cite Scripture he will rather take the comment of his Master Iohn then the definition and tradition howeuer auncient of the whole Church deliuering the sence of it It is so in the point of the Reall presence And in admitting the Bookes of Scripture too he will be his owne chooser and will iudge himself which is good and sound and which ought to be discarded Vide disput de Eccles pag. 304. But who shall decide the coÌ„trouersie betwixt the Church and him touching the meaning of that Scripture which he pleaseth to let passe for currant The Spirit no doubt But in whom in the Church or the vniuersitie of beleeuers before his time Not so They might erre he thinkes and so might all the Councells of Bishops that euer were and all the Pastors of the world though consenting they might all he thinks be deceaued Where then speakes the Iudge he meanes to stand to when the Controuersie is about the sence of Scripture or about the sinceritie of the letter in whom speakes the Spirit which he will permit to be his Master In Master Iohn So he beleeues rather theÌ„ he will beleeue that he speaketh in the Church Now tell me is not this a strange manner of proceeding in matters appertaining to our eternall estate to challeng to ones self or his Master Iohn authoritie to teach and interprete Scripture and to denie it to the whole Senate of Catholike Bishops and Pastors whom God hath giuen to teach diuine doctrine and to keepe the Church from wauering in such matters and not onlie to them Ephes 4 in what age soeuer but absolutelie to the Church without exempting the first Disciples and Apostles These for
rauening wolues in sheeps-clothing some and the Pastors driue them â—ot away because they know â—hem not The Disciples knew â—ot that one in the companie was a Deuil Wee are heere to â—reat of things manifest and to â—he Church and so farre that â—hey might be legallie proued against the men when they weâ—e â—e liuing and exteriorlie enâ—oyed the benefit of Commuâ—ion or are now to be seene 〈◊〉 their books bookes not â—ensured so cleerlie that it is â—nexcusablie vndeniable Your â—elf I suppose would require no lesse euidence to condemne a man and in so great a matter after death when he can speake no more for himself then was necessarie to q Reus non antè condemnandus est quaÌ„ si idoneis testibus vel apertissimis documentis vel indicijs indubitatis luce clarioribus coÌ„uict is fuerit aut propria coÌ„fessione c. Vide legem fi C. de Probationibus l. Qui sententiam 16. C. de poeâ— Neqâ—e manifestò constet incurrisse in sententiam excomun quod nullo modo potest occultari aut per aliquod reâ—â— edium iurâ—s excusari c. Extra Mart V. Adeuâ—anda condemne him when he was aliue To vndertake this Question in the latitude that I do is more then was necessarie for the defence of a generall traditionâ— more then can be showne for diuers partes of the New testamenâ— by you receaued but the poweâ— of the veritie will appeare thâ— better when it is found to hauâ— bene so vniuersallie manifest and so commonlie receaued that none by the Church esteemed Orthodoxe in their â—â—mes haue beene euer knownâ— though there were still occasion to looke vpon the authoritie of such Councels openlâ— to contradict it and auouch thâ— contrarie Neither could I well refuse it is a duetie in him that hath reaped benifit by their â—abours to come abroad and defend the iust honour of Perâ—ons wrongd who be not aâ—iue now to maintaine their owne credit APPROBATIO IN hoc libro cui titulus A RelectioÌ„ c. nihil est fidei Catholicae aut boâ—â—s moribus contrarium sed multa quae â—eritatem Catholicam confirmant Quaâ—opter dignum censui qui praelo comâ—ittatur Actum Duaci 22. Maij 1635. GEORGIVS COLVENERIVS S. Theol. Doctor eiusdem regius ordinariusque Professor Collegiatae Ecclesiae S. Petri Praepositus Vniuersitatis Duacensis Cancellarius librorum Censor Ex Disput li. 4. c. 5. pag. 377. OFfer not to cite any knowne Schismatike whose opinion is generallie by all Deuiâ—eâ— reiected cite no booke but what is at least tolerated in the Church and haue a care you proue that the man whom you cite doth himsef directlie and openlie asseuere and affirme the thing in Question Because it were but losse of time to speake of others such as either had their writings censured when they came to be knowne or durst not openlie auouch what they would to you seeme to say There are degrees in leauing the communion of the Church and the same partie at one time may be in it and at other time either out or in such an errour as if obstinacie were added to it would take him out Neither can the subtile dealing of any discontented person if he chance to step ouer shoes preiudâ—ce our cause or be taken for the tenet of the Church vnles the Church approue it and error it neuer did or will approue So there by way 〈◊〉 preuention howbeit you were not pleased to take notice of it And in the end of the leafe are cited some 〈◊〉 Ockams words Whose authoritie you scan first aâ— so will I for a reason not yours Which Will quicklâ— show it self THE QVESTION Whether any Deuines of the Catholike Communion haue openly and to the knowledge of those to whom it appertained to looke vnto the Church auouched and maintained of Councels entirelie oecumenicall such as were generall and approued that in Decrees of Faith they might mistake and erre YOV haue vndertaken the Affirmatiue and will be Plaintiff Your instance is in Austen Vincentius Lirinensis Athanasius amongst the Auncient and in Oâ—kam and Waldensis amongst the later To the same purpose others do cite Cameracensis Panormiâ—â—â— Stapleton Cusanus Clemangis and Canus and Baro who professedlie disputes the matter ioynes Optatus and Antoninus Franciscus Picus is alleaged some where too by the said Minister reciting the Opinions of some of these men What Councels he speakes of I do not intend to dispute being to looke into the Authors them selues and out of their owne Writings not out of other mens to learne their mind You will not be displeased if I put the places downe as Baro cites them that such as haue hiâ— booke which is publike may compare and iudgeâ— as they see cause §. I. 1. Ockam in a booke of his that is prohibited saies that some Christians comprehending Hereticks vnder the name seeme to think generall Councels some might erre 2. Fâ— brings in behalf of those men an argumentâ— proue it which argument is manifestlie deâ—cient In like manner he brings arguments proue that which he confesseth to be false as thought this also to be 3. He recites an opâ—nion whereof he saies he knew no abbettor thâ— speakes doubtfullie of the manner of assistin◠〈◊〉 and himself auoucheth the Authoritie of sincere generall Councels He toucheth obiter the question who doth approue and how and who declares them to be generall 4. His proceedings in this worke discommended QVia omnes Christiani sentire videntur quod tota multitudo Christianorum haereticari non potest quidam autem secundò quod nec Concilium generale aliqui verò tertiò quod nec Rom. Ecclesia nonnulli autem quartò quod nec Collegium Cardinalium aliqui verò quintò quod nec etiam Papa potest hatetica pollui prauitate Ideo de istis quinque quid sentiant Christiani cupio vt mihi reueles Baro. p. 359. ex Ockam dial li. 5. c. 1. 1. OCKAM All Christians doe seeme to thinke that the whole multitude of Christians caÌ„not become heretick but some Christians do seeme to thinke that neither a generall Councell Here first is not determined what generall Councells those people meane whether approued or not approued by the see Apostolike Seâ—ondly it is not said absolutly that they doe thinke and maintaine that Councells oecumenicall may propoâ—â—e and teach heresie but that some â—oe seeme to thinke that Generall Councels whether some or all is not here expressed may haereticari or haeretica prauitate pollui haereticate to keepe his termes or be stained with hereticall prauitie Thirdly it is not expressed who these Christians were whether Catholikes or Schismatickes And in case an excoÌ„municated persoÌ„ seeking how to maintaine Schismaticall proceedings in a book not tollerated but a Index lib. prohibit Conc. Trid. expresly forbidden should not avouch but seeme to think that Councels though generall might erre this could not make good what yoâ— professe to proue vzt that men 〈◊〉 our Communion haue in their curraâ—
works openly denied infallibilitie to the decrees of approued generall Councels Much lesse can the passage alleaged serue your turne if the word Christians be not heere taken so strictly as your inference doth suppose but so farre extended that heretickes come vnder the name too for then it may be true that some Christians doe seeme to thinke so and yeâ— no Catholikes thinke so there being other Christians in the world beside Catholikes euen in his opinion that said and was it not the same b Quaeso vt mihi reueles an aliqui sentiant quod tota multitudo Christianorum valeat haeretica prauitate foedari Mag. Iudaei Sarraceni etiam Pagani firmissimè tenent fidem ChristianaÌ„ esse erroneaÌ„ Disc Non intendo quaerere de illis sed de Christianis sub Christianis etiam Haereticos comprehendendo Mag. Nescio aliquem Christianum qui hoc teueat Ockam dialog par 1. li. 5 c. 35. Ockam thinke you that vnder the name of Christians he did also comprehend heretikes who desired also in this Dialogue to heare the contrarie Opinions of whomsoeuer Catholikes or Heretikes yea and sometimes others â—hat no c Nolo vt quod tenes in mente reueles sed respoÌ„siones aliquas quae cogitari vel teneri potuerint à quocumque non differas recitate c. sententias contrarias quorumcumque Catholicorum Haereticorum interdum alia quae à nullo Christiano tenentur licet possint habere Catholicos Haereticos defendentes te desidero recitare sic enim multiplicius efficacius exercitabimus studiorum ingenia Idem c. 34. Christians hold This for your argument of omnes and quidam Christiani some Christians and all Christians VNa sola est Ecclesia militans quae contra fidem errare non potest quia de sola vniuersali militante inuenitur in Scripturis authenticis quod errare non potest Concilium autem generale licet sit pars Ecclesiae militantis vniuersalis tamen non est Ecclesia vniuersalis Igitur temerarium est dicere quod Concilium generale contra fidem errare non potest Baro. p. 361. ex Ockam dial 2. THe next thing obiected is an argument of those some Christians whereby they imagined that perhaps the thing which they did seeme to thinke might be proued The vniuersall diffused Church onlie iâ— vnerrable but a generall Councell iâ— not the vniuersall diffused Church Ergo. In which argument the proposition or is Maior false as our Deuines doe proue by playne testimonieâ— of scripture and our aduersaries 〈◊〉 necessitie must acknowledg aâ— much vnles they will oppose them selues to the Apostles and Father and Pastors of the Church all together For if onely the Symbolicaâ— or vniuersall Church diffuse through all Nations and times hatâ— the priuiledge of not erring in matter of diuine Faith it followes thaâ— the Pastors and Fathers and Apostles all consenting are not to bâ— relied on as a proponent infallible since these be not the whole 〈◊〉 they neuer so glorious a part of the Church vniuersall Howbeit tâ— Question here is not of that argument or proposition but whetheâ— Ockam doth denie the infallibilitie of approued generall Councells or whether he doth name or giue other sufficient notice of any Catholike that denied it He names here none â—t all neither doth he say that they were Catholikes who seemed to thinke c. and least any should suspect him he professeth in the person of the other Dialogist to be of the d Quamuiâ— firmissimè puteÌ„ quod Concilium Generale haereticari non potest tamen rationes pro assertione contraria libenti animo auscultabo Mag. Quod Concilium generale possit errare contra fidem rationibus exemplis videtur posse probari Prima autem ratio talis est Vna est sola vniuersalis Ecclesia c. vt pag. 5. Ockam li. 5. c. 25. argumenti verò solutionem apud ipsum innenies cap 9. habetur inferius ad lit h. §. ad vndecimam minde that a generall Councell cannot â—rre in faith The like proceeding you may obserue in him els-where as in the last Chapter of this booke where he bringes reasons and leaues them without answer too to proue that the whole multitude of Christians hauing vse of reason pastors and people men and women may erre against the faith and that it is temeâ—arious to say they will neuer doe so though he there confesse this which â—e goeth about to proue to (e) Nescio aliquem Christianum qui hoc teneat Disc Licet nescias Christianum aliquem hoc tenere tamen pro hoc al quas rationes excogitare nitaris Mag. Ad quaestionem falsam nulla ratio nisi sophistica potest adduci Disc Concedo quod pro assertione praedicta nulla valet ratio nisi sophistica allegari tamen saepè rationes apparentes difficiles ad soluendum pro falsis inducuntur Vnde qualescunque inuenire coneris Mag. Quod tota multitudo Christianorum vsum rationis habentium possit contra fidem errare tali ratione probatur c. Ockam li. 5. c 35. Ergo temerarium est asserere quod nunquam tota multitudo Christianorum vsum rationis habentium contra fidem errabit Ibidem in fine be â—â—lse as it is indeed and manifestly against the Scripture Daniel 7. I say 49. Mat. 18. Io. 14. Ephes 4. Apoc. 20. and that he knewe no Christian at all he liued before the Protestant Religion that held it ESt quaedam opinio quae viam eligens mediam praedictis omnibus in aliquo aduersatur tenens quod Scripturae diuinâ— contentae in Biblia eiusdem sacrae Scripturae scriptoribus Vniuersall Ecclesiae atque Apostolis absque vlla dubitatione in omnibus est credendum Nullis verò alijs quantacunque doctrina vel sanctitate praepolleant est in omnibus absque omni exceptione fides necessariò adhibenda Ita quod nec in Concilio Cenerali si esset congregata vniuersalis Ecclesia noâ— decretis aut decretalibus vel assertionibus summorum Pontificum nec Doctorum dictis siue fuerint ab Ecclesia approbati siue non fuerint approbati est necessariò credulitas in omni dicto casu absque omni exceptione praestanda Licet in multis negari non debeant quoad multa Christiani ipsis credere teneantur Baro p. 361. ex Ockami dial 3. par tract 1. li. 3. c. 4. 3. THe third thing obiected is that he mentions an Opinion holding amongst many other things that credit is not to be giuen to a generall Councell in euery thing it saies and in euery case without exception Were this his owne tenet our cause were not hurt for wee do not maintaine in Councells of the Church approued much lesse in all Councels that are stiled generall such an vnlimited and vniuersall infallibilitie as these words import in omni dicto casu absque omni exceptione in all they say and in all cases without exception neither indeed
priuate by any that is a Scholler Consentiens subscripsâ— but I should not anticipate SI quaeratur quis habet iudicare an concilia fuerint catholicè celebrata Respondetur quod quia non definirent aliquâ— nisi quod potest elici ex Scriptu is diuinis ideo periti in Scrâ—pturis habentes aliarum sufficientem intelligentiam scriptâ—rarum habent iudicare per modum firmae assertionis quod 〈◊〉 finita abijs sunt catholicè definita Baâ—o ex Ockami dial 4. LAstlie you take occasion oâ— of his words to question whâ— shall iudge whether the Councâ— haue defined canonicallie or no 〈◊〉 which case wee are not so ignoraâ— as to runne out of the Church to Hâ—retickes to learne of them Neithâ— doe wee esteeme William Ockam great an oracle that were his doctâ—ne heerein singular neglecting boâ— the aa) Quamuis omnes Episcopi orbis terrae praesentes fuissent 3 p. li 3. c. 9. per congregationem quae à multitudine fidelium Generale CoÌ„cilium aestimatur Ibidem Councell and the Churâ— (bb) Et si quaeratur quis habet iudicaâ—e an fuerint catholicè celebrata Respondetur quod quia non definierunt aliquid nisi quod potest elici ex Scripturis diuinis ideo periti in Scripturis habentes aliarum sufficientem intelligentiam scripturarum babent iudicare per moduÌ„ firmae assertionis fortè assentionis quod definita ab eis sunt catholicè definita Summi autem Pontifices si non fuerint praesentes sed tantum modo authoritate eorum praesentibus legatis ipsorum celebrata fuerunt authenticè iudicare habeÌ„t quod catholicè extiterint celebrata Si autem Summus Pontisex praesens fueriâ— sufficit quod authenticet ipsa Ibidem adherent to it wee should gâ— learne of him what conditions 〈◊〉 necessarie to the subsistence oâ— Councell and whether all were 〈◊〉 or no. Yet this is not the Questioâ— It is one thing to dispute whetheâ— Priest can consecrate and another dispute whether you be a Priest Oâ— thing to dispute whether a geneâ— Councell can define infalliblie anoâ—her to dispute which is a generall Councell The controuersie wee speâ—ke of is about the former wherein â—atholikes maintaine the affirmaâ—ue and you shall neuer proue that â—kam held the contrarie by his Diaâ—gues whilst his Dialogues are extant 〈◊〉 fine if it be obiected that he hath â—t expreslie and professedlie answeâ—d diuers argumeÌ„ts which he bringes â—ainst Councells this will not conâ—de that he held against such as â—ere lawfull and approued and consequentlie that he did herein contradict himselfe for l. 5. c. vlt. he beings arguments to proue that the â—hole multitude of beleeuers as â—any as haue vse of reason may erâ— concluding (cc) suprà ad lit d vide etiam quae habentur lâ—tâ—h it is temerarious to â—rme that it will neuer be and â—se arguments as I told you once â—ore he leaues vnanswered not â—hstanding that in the beginning 〈◊〉 did acknowledge none but Soâ—ticall could be brought and â—t the thing was false and that he â—ewe no Christian at all Catholike or â—etike that held it If you thinke that in his minde he was of that opinion you cannot approue the Spirit opposing all Christians and his owne conscience too If you do not think he was then let not his seeming want of answer or indiscreet and scandalous proposing of doubts moue you to iudge neglecting the caueat he gaue in the (dd) suprà ad lit f. beginning that in them he deliuered his owne minde Much lessâ— should you adore this vnhappie worke as a piece heauenlie-inspired for the worlds learning considering how in it like a serpent hâ— rowles himselfe into windings striuing still to hide his head and thaâ— hauing turbulentlie snatcht pen iâ— hand to maintaine a Schisme he beginnes the worke with the commendation of his owne great (ee) Quod tua Sapientia sentit Ibidem wisdome For my part I should noâ— wonder to finde in such a workâ— fouler errours then wee speake 〈◊〉 hetherto (ff) S. Hier. in Tit. c. 3. There is no scisme whicâ— feignes not vnto it self some Heresie Sâ— Ierome saies that it may seeme iustâ— to haue departed from the Church §. II. 1. Petrus Cameracensis reciteth diuers opinions out of Ockam whereof one is that of Councels allreadie handled 2. He said in his yonger age disputatiuè not assertiuè that the infallibilitie of other Church besides the vniuersall could not be coÌ„uinced out of Scriptuâ—re What he thought of the point it self he declared afterwards 3. He did not hold that the whole multitude of Christians Clerks and 4. Laicks might fall from the true faith OMnes fideles in eo communiter consentire videntur quod tota Ecclesia siue multitudo omnium Christianorum haeâ—eticari non potest siue contra fidem errare Baro. p. 363. ex â—lliacensâ— Octaua assertio est quod etiam Concilium generale â—otest contra fidem errare quia ipso sic errante adhuc staret â—â—liquos extra concilium non errare per consequens fidem Ecclesia non deficere Ibidem ex eodem 1. PETRVS CAMERACENSIS This man if the vâ—speriae and the ResumptioÌ„ of it be his is brought first to beare witnes that in his time there were contrarie opinions about the authoritie of Councells The reason why they call vpon him is because amongst assertions which he relates in his Vesperiall Quaestion one is that a generall Councell may erre against faith Wherevnto I answer first that wee maintaine not the infallibilitie of all that beare the name SecoÌ„dlie he doth (a) Recitandae sunt quaedam assertiones circa istam materiam plurimum differentes Prima est in qua coÌ„muniter omnes fideles videntur coÌ„â—enire quod tota Ecclesia siue multitudo omniuÌ„ ChristianoruÌ„ haereticari non potest siue coÌ„tra fideÌ„ errare SecuÌ„da quod nec etiaÌ„ Concilium Generale Tertia quod nec Romana Ecclesia Quarta quod nec Collegium Cardinalium Quinta quod nec Papa canonicè intrans Aliae autem sunt quinque assertiones praedictis valdè repugnantes Vna est quod Papa intrans canonicé haereticari potest c. Octaua quod etiam Concilium Generale c. Nona est quod tota multitudo non solum Cardinalium sed generaliter omnium virorum potest sic errare fides Ecclesiâ—e in solis mulieribus conseruari Decima est quod tota multitudo Christianorum noâ— solum virorum sed etiam mulierum vsum rationis habentium potest errare contra fidem quia hoc stante adhuc in paruulis baptizatis possunt saluari omnes promissioneâ— Christi de fide Ecclesiae vsque ad consummationem saeculi Petrus Cameracensis Quaest. Vesp. recite assertions onely in that place and not approue them as appeares by his words recitandae sunt assertiones circa materiam istam plurimum differentes I musâ— recite certaine assertions about thiâ— matter that are much different or as after
admitted in some others â—t in a scholler that pretends to haâ— reade the Question in him and â—â—th vrge his authoritie against the â—hurch of God such a pretence â—th no place §. III. Waldensis yeilding to the Scripture a preminence in Authoritie will haue vs depend â—on the Church for the sence of it 2. She is â—o to declare which bookes are Canonicall â—ripture A speach of Canus touching Walâ—sis his Opinion examined 3. When he saith 〈◊〉 Fathers testimonie hath abolished all Heâ—â—es he doth not exclude the Authoritie of 〈◊〉 Church symbolicall or representatiue 4 â—e symbolicall Church he saith against Wiâ—ef is not the Predestinated people only but 〈◊〉 Vniuersitie of right beleeuers spred ouer the whole world 5. He held that the Church of Rome cannot faile 6. and that perfect oecumenicall Councels be infallible in their decree HAecipsa fides authoritas Ecclesiae quantum homiâ—â— supergreditur rationem tantùm fateor diuina legis â—â—thoritati succumbit Baro p. 365. ex Waldensi Media est 〈◊〉 inter supremam authoritatem Scripturae infimam ratioâ— fides Ecclesiae Scripturas venerabiliter attollens exhibeus rationem vagam hominis ad hanc geminam authoritaâ— alligans zona Pauli Idem ex eodem 1. WALDENSIS saith the authoâ—â—tie of the Church is inferiour the authoritie of Scripture What this will you inferre that wee thâ—refore neede not obaie the decrâ—â— of Councells or that the Châ—â—ches authoritie is fallible Infallibâ—â—tie may be in others besides Scâ—â—pture The Apostles were not Scâ—â—pture yet were they infallible â—nesses of the trueth The Churcâ— the pillar and ground of trueth thoâ— the Church be not Scripture 1. Timoth. 3. Thâ— may be diuers Authorities infallâ— and one of them Subordinate to 〈◊〉 other And so are these two accâ—â—ding to this Author as you may â—by the places represented in the a Quamuis fides vniuersalis Ecclesiae inuenitur per Scripturas expressa ficut est paenè tota non tamen est eiâ—n authoritate par sed subijcitur Waldensis de principijs fidei Doctr tomo 1. li. 2. c. 21. Fides vt est Ecclesiae Catholicae in hoc accedit fidei Scripturarum quod non licet de ipsa dubitare eo quod testimoniuÌ„ Ecclesiae Catholicae est obiectuÌ„ fidei Christianae legis latio scripturae canonicae Subijcitur tamen ipsi sicut testis iudici testimonium veritati sicut praeconâ—zatio definitioni sicut praeco regi Ibâ—dem Quod aliquis pater vnus singulariter per se sensit potes aliquo saltem colore tuo decredere quod autem poenè omnes quasi vnus homo loquuntur fidei robur habet quia vnitas ipsa in Ecclesia hoc loquitur omnium gentium linguis Idem c. 25. margine One onely I will putt here because it serues also for that which followes In the 18. Chapter of his 2. Booke Doct. Fid. he declares how the sinceritie of the Churches testimonie in matters of faith is beleeued in the Creed there where we professe to beleeue the holie Catholike Church and amongst other things to this purpose hath these words Before the written Gospell this in the heart of the Church was the Gospell which Iesus Christ wrote and which the Apostles wrote in the harts of men and to whose testimonie euerie one must stand in the controuersies whether the text of the written Gospell be vnderstood or taken by the faithfull or subuerted by the Heretick whereof the Apostle speaks to the Corinthians saying â—ow are our Epistle written in your hearts which is knowne and read of all men declared that you are the Epistle of Christ manifested by vs and written not with inke but by the spicit of the liuing God not in tables of stone but in fleshlie tables of the heart And a litle after Though the law of nature which men beare written in their hearts be most certaine yet much more hath the law of Christ certissimum interpretamentum a most certaine interpretation in the hearts of the faithfull succeeding one another from the beginning of the rising Church and the Apostles times foreuer according to that of the Prophet this is the testament which I will make to them giuing my lawes in their hearts and in their sense or minde I will write them I must not omitt to putt you further in minde that in the place by you cited he saith b Haec ipsa fides Ecclesiae eius authoritas quantum hominum supergreditur rationem tantum fateor diuinâ— legis authoritati succumbit sed tamen quaâ— minoris esse authoritatis fidelibus si eam Ecclesia non praeferret Waâ—d to 3. de Sacramentalibus tit 7. c. 63. Si verum sem per sit testimonium Ecclesiae semper credenda est si quandoqâ—â— fallere consueta in omnibus est suspecta Ibidem the diuine law were vnto the faithfull * Non licet de ipsa dubitare c. vide in Addit of lesse authoritie if the Church did not preferre it And c Hoc est quod superius dixi quantumlibet eminent Scriptura diuina sanctioni Ecclesiae ipsa tamen taxabeâ— se sum eius quo aliter sentire non possis cuius interpraetationi resistere capitalis est culpa dicit Origenes Ibidâ—â— howmuch soeuer the diuinâ— scripture is higher then the decree of â—he Church ipsa tamen sensum eius â—axabit she notwithstanding shall deâ—ne the sense wherein thou maiest not â—old otherwise and whose interpretaâ—â—on to resist is as Origen speakes a â—apitall offence So he AD Concilium vniuersale praecipué pertinet definire qui liber sit canonicus Quam quidem propositionem aequo aniâ—o paterer ab haereticis non admitti sed illud tamen doleo veheâ—enter quod eam nonnulli fideles inficiantur in quibus Thoâ—as Waldensis esse videtur li. 2. doc fid c. 19. Baro. p. 365. ex â—no Addit Baro c. 20. 21. SEcondlie it is obiected that he denies to the Church now â—â—esent power to determine which â—â—e bookes of scripture And for this â—â—e cited three Chapters of his 2. â—â—oke Doct. Fid. the 19. 20. and 21. â—ut there I finde it not He doth inâ—ed hold that the Catholick Churh â—â—d no other is able to d Et hoc est secundum dictuÌ„ gloriosum de Ecclesia quod sc ipsa sola est cuius testimoniuÌ„ est tantae authoritatis praeconij vt ipsos libros diuinarum scripturaruÌ„ taxare decoruÌ„ authoribus certificare possit fideles nec fas erit tanto testimonio contraire wald li. 2. doct fid c. 20. Incertum ergo esse non potest cos esse libros canonicos habere pondus authoritatissuae quibus Ecclesia declarata per omnes gentes ab Apostolis propagata testimoniuÌ„ certum reddit Ibidem Dico quod Ecclesia eam doctrinam docet esse credeÌ„dam sub poena contumaciae Ea dico quae praesens est quae iudicia directa
decreuit à temporibus Apostolorum vsque ad praesens vel vsque in praesens per successiones Patrum id ipsum sapieÌ„tium atque docentium ei inquam credi debet sub poena perfidiae tom 1. doctrina 2. certifie â—hich bookes are scripture and that â—â—e can commend none in this naâ—â—re but such as were written in â—â—e Apostles e Ipsis patriincumbebat qui tunc praesidebaÌ„t Ecclesijs ducere scripturaruÌ„ volumina ad perfectum tunc enim fuit temporis plenitudo non dubium libri non reciperentur in authoritateÌ„ sacri canonis nisi qui de illis teÌ„poribus Apostolicis agereÌ„t tunc temporis essent quia aliter non facerent de diuinis rebus fidem summam Idem li. 2. c. 20. vt suprà daies but this is â—t to denie the present Church or Councell power to propose againe the same There were notwithstanding the Apostles approbation of diuers parts of the new testameÌ„t which approbation came not at least so manifestlie to the notice of all some who doubted of f Vide Disp pa. 431 or denied them as for example the Apocalyps and S. Iudes Epistle and the later oâ— S. Peter yet you your selues doe and Waldensis did receaue them aâ— the hands of the Church by thaâ— part which then liued when he did Neither doth Canus saie that hâ— denied a Councell power to propose bookes in the manner wee noâ— speake of but he saies onelie thaâ— he seemes to be of those who denie thâ— power to define which booke is Canonicall to belonge chieflie to a generâ— Councell It is one thing to saie thâ— a Councell can doe it another tâ— saie the power belongs chieflie 〈◊〉 the Councell as you will perceaâ— by the declaration of the next placâ— obiected Waldensis as Canus worâ— import seemed to denie not the foâ—mer but the later neither doth 〈◊〉 saie that he denied it but that 〈◊〉 did seeme to doe so some things thâ— â—hilosophers vse to saie do seeme 〈◊〉 be and are not and some thing â—emes to one otherwise many tiâ—es then to an other Had it been so â—deed I make no question but that â—ou who haue been diligent in your â—inde to seeke in him what might â—e brought against vs would not â—aue omitted to relate the words When you seeke for them next â—ou will finde in him first as I said â—efore that in his exclusiue he speaâ—es of bookes not written in the Aâ—ostles time or before to which purâ—ose he g Waldens li. 2. fid doc c. 20. brings the place of scriâ—ture Dominus narrabit in scripturis â—opulorum principum horum qui â—uerunt in ea with S. Ieroms Comment on it wherein are these words vt exceptis Apostolis quodcunque aliud â—osteà dicitur abscindatur non habeat â—osteà authoritatem And to the same â—enour he himselfe a litle after let vs â—ote the differences of Scripture because the scripture or writing onlie of â—he Princes that is of the Apostles hath after our lord the crowne of authoritie I meane of canonicall authoritie for the saying of the Saincts which followed them haue their authoritie bâ— not canonicall Secondlie whereas 〈◊〉 might be obiected that the Churcâ— in a generall Councell might wriâ— a booke and put it into the canon 〈◊〉 scripture to be among other bookâ— of holie writt since S. Gregorie thâ— great doth professe to honour theâ— as the Gospels in those words h S. Greg. mag li. 1. Regesti epist 24. citatur in Decret d. 15 Quintum quoque Concilium pariter venerot Ibidem Sicut Sancti Euangelij quatuor libros 〈◊〉 quatuor concilia suscipere veneraâ—me fateor Waldensis there answere to this argument and expounds thâ— words of S. Gregorie Thirdlie because it might againe be obiecteâ— out of the decrees whence the former obiection was taken that i Gelasius c. Sancta Romana d. 15. Nec obstat Pelagiana epistola de librâ—s recipiendis non recipâ—eÌ„dâ—s vbi scripturaruÌ„ libros in authoritate pleâ—â—râ—a quomodo sint habendi denunciat noÌ„ ad authoritatem per seipsum in instaurat walden vbi supra Pelagius the Pope seemes to determine what bookes are to be receaued into the canon and what not he answers with a distinction which doth explaine his minde and dotâ— suffice to stopp your mouth wheâ— occasion require Scripturarum libâ— saith he in authoritate plenaria quâ— modo sunt habendi denunciat non 〈◊〉 authoritatem per scipsum instaurâ— That is in briefe he doth not giue but declare their sacred and diuinâ— â—thoritie And the same the Church 〈◊〉 all times might and may doe â—hensoeuer there shall be cause â—hey were by the holy Ghost inâ—red and written by the Apostles â—d Princes of the Church qui fueâ—t in ea and were approued by them 〈◊〉 but it hath beene since necessaâ— to declare some of them to giue â—timonie that they be diuine and â—s testimonie the Church still can â—e Neither is our Sauiour offenâ—d with her testimonie giuen to 〈◊〉 word who was pleased that she â—ould giue testimonie of himâ—fe Of which matter this author â—th much in the former Chapters â—eciallie the eighteenth Fourthlie 〈◊〉 doth esteeme the iudgment of 〈◊〉 Pope and of a perfect Councell â—e infallible as you will heare beâ—e wee leaue him and therefore â—ch more is he to be esteemed to â—eld this honour to the whole wheâ— they be All which being conâ—ered that which you did vrge out 〈◊〉 Canus so appeares that it is but a â—ere videtur without an est vnâ— it HAec est sola machinae Christiana quae cunctas haereses mel aboleuit ipsa sc professio concors sanctorum Patrâ— secundum suorum temporum interualla reddentium testiâ—nium Christi verbis consuetudini primitiue Baro p. 3â— ex wald to 3. de Sacramentalibus doct 3. 3. THirdlie it is inferred that 〈◊〉 takes infallibilitie froÌ„ Couâ—cells and from the present Churcâ— because he saith that the vnanimâ— profession of the holie Fathers giuâ— testimonie according to the distanceâ— their times to the * Latiùs patet verbum quà m scriptura words of Christ 〈◊〉 the primitiue custome is the oâ—â— Christian engine which hath once â—â—lished all Heresies Wherevnto I aâ—swere first that he speakes withâ— exclusion of the Church presentâ— each heresie for it is well knowâ— that the Church which did aboâ—â— Arianisme and Nestorianisme 〈◊〉 the rest of the heresies before 〈◊〉 times was that Church whâ— knewe of them and that she diâ— by her Pastors and for the most pâ— in Councells though not without 〈◊〉 censent of that part of the Chuâ—â—â— and those her Pastors which liâ—â— in the precedent ages which o◠〈◊〉 or agreeable profession was â—nd partlie by their bookes as in 〈◊〉 acts of the Councells appeares â—his daie and partlie by the tradiâ— of the particular Churches wheâ— they had liued and died Which â—â—nner the Church doth still obserâ— in condemning heresies as they
â—se ioyning her present Authoriâ— to that of the precedent ages â—â—ose minde she doth enquire in â—â—e manner that so by consent of 〈◊〉 whole still errours be condemâ—d Neither is it necessarie to finde â—at which she doth at anie time â—opose vniuersallie professed by all â—fore in plaine termes and expliciâ— or to finde it in all bookes of thoâ— times the Church informer ages â—d not so wee take the same course â—at she then did Secondlie you must â—tend vnto the words cunctas aboleâ—e hath abolished all No one Counâ—ll no one part as that which liued 〈◊〉 the second age or that which liâ—ed in the third or fourth hath aboâ—hed and destroyed them all but â—â—e whole hath done it Thirdlie that â—la is not * If sola be taken as you would haue it what will become of your triall by scripture onlie captiouslie to be stood vpon least you wrong the same Aâ—thor who neuer excluded the Symbolicall Church for whose testimonâ— k so 3. doc 3. tomo 1. li. 2. ca. 18.19.20 c. he pleades so earnestlie both iâ— the same place and in his seconâ— booke Doct. Fid. in many chapterâ— prouing it it's testimonie I meane to be contained in the Creede yâ—â— the Fathers of whose consent 〈◊〉 speakes in the place by you heeâ— vrged be not the symbolicaâ—â— Church properlie but onlie a parâ— of it And in like manner wheâ— speaking of the Church symbolical he saith it is she onlie whose testimonie is of so great l To. 1. li. 2. c. 20. vt suprà ad lit d. authoritie thaâ— she can certifie who are authors oâ— the bookes of scripture that soâ— doth not exclude another authoritie that is within for example thâ— vnanimous consent of Fathers whereof he speakes heere in the words obiected their authoritie were sufficient to certifie the same as you may see by him To. 1. Doct. 3. and li. 2. eiusdem to c. 26. and m Apudomnes Catholicos valet ligat vna sententia concors patruÌ„ maximè autem temporis longaeuâ— patrum successione sirmata ita vt locuÌ„ fidei habeat De quacre â—enda sub poenae perfidiaein symbolo scribetur Credo sanctam Ecclesiam walden to 1. doctrinâ 2. Verè enim ad omnes haereses compescendas omnes tractatus definitiones terminandas in materia fidei sola via est in qua errare non contingit concors patruÌ„ sententia ab ipsis ApostoloruÌ„ sedibus vsque ad nostratempora fideliter compilara In hoc enim simile erit regnum caelorum id est ecclesia catholica homini patri familias qui profert de thesauro suo noua vetera li. 2. c. 25. els where but it excludes authoritie Without Fourthlie he doth noâ— exclude generall Councells by thâ— Christian world approued and hâ— â—t should in Sainct Augustines â—es haue refused to subscribe to â—h authoritie or disputed against â—t which the vniuersall Church â—hat age beleeued and tought he â—t would not haue beleeued what â—s by so great authoritie proposed â—d bene thought madde rather then â—rthie the name of man Fiftlie â—her doth he exclude from infalâ—litie and power to abolish heâ—es the Gospels and other parts scripture and yet these be not â—t instrument or engine which he â—akes of so that you cannot build 〈◊〉 argument on those words to â—e infallibilitie awaie from all but 〈◊〉 Fathers Sixtlie notwithstanâ—g that Councells and the present â—urch are infallible it may be said â—the consent of the Fathers or â—he whole symbolicall Church â—h abolish all heresie because faith â—re readilie giues assent vnto that â—ch is so vniuersallie proposed â—derstandings not so well dispoâ— before doe quicklie stoope in 〈◊〉 case to giue reuerence to the â—h and such as doe not are condemned of all and so confoundâ— that they dare no more openlie pâ—fesse their errour whence it coâ— to passe that none making esteâ— either of the doctrine or of thâ— who stubbornlie doe persist in it degrees it is abolished And this one of those glorious prerogatiâ— which Waldensis so much coÌ„meâ— in the Church Besides the foresâ— readines in the vnderstanding whâ— it is by grace well disposed or 〈◊〉 lesse repugnance to render obedieâ— when it cannot with any shew pâ—tend reason for the refusall there dâ— appeare too more fullie in tâ— proponent the power of vniâ— which is in it selfe a dispositioâ— more plentifull participation of 〈◊〉 spirit and brings with it greaâ— force to conquer opposition Vndâ—standings well disposed yeild pâ—sentlie when the Councell speakâ— when the present Church hath â—ceaued and vniuersallie approâ— the Councell there is ex parte sâ—cti more adhesion and yet mâ— when the consent of all former aâ— is added and vnited and more 〈◊〉 there was in those that had Gradus adhaesionis ex parte subiecti as the â—choolemen speake euidentiam in â—ttestante S. Marke knew the Gosâ—ell which he wrote to be true yet â—hat the faithfull more easilie might â—eleeue it he had it n Vide to 1. doct 3. to 3. li. 2. c. 20. S. Hieron Catol script in Marco approued â—s S. Hierom doth relate by S. Peâ—er S. Paul knew the truth in the â—uestion moued at Antioch about â—ircumcision yet to make the creâ—ibilitie more appeare and more conâ—incing he went with it to the CouÌ„â—ell at Hierusalem where it was o Act. 15. â—efined And the Pastors there knewe too what was the truth yet â—or the greater weight of Authoriâ—ie they added testimonies of Scriâ—ture The scripture many times â—rings testimonies of scripture for confirmation as this Author showeth excellentlie to 1. l. 2. c. 20. and our blessed Sauiour himselfe in conâ—irmation of his resurrection cited Moyses and the Prophets When parts â—re vnited Bishops in Councell particular Churches in the vniuersall whole ages in the Symbolicall â—ater with most Auncient all vnder â—one eternall Word becomming one speaker and vttering in the language of all Nations as it were with one mouth in one spirit one and thâ— same thing no man that perceaueâ— it morallie can dissent This proponent hath a commaunding poweâ— ouer a wise mans vnderstanding anâ— it is a great engine to confound errour in which great engine he thaâ— should denie there were many paâ—ticular engines able to confounâ— Heresie wronges diuers particulaâ— in the companie vnlesse you esteeme it no wronge to denie that honour and abilitie to Prophets and Apostles ECclesia vniuersalis habet fidem indefectibilem non qâ—dem in generali synodo congregata quam aliquoties errâ— percepimus c. Baro p. 366. ex wald to 1. li. 2. c. 19. 4. FOurthlie to the same purposeâ— of remouing infallibilitie froâ— the present Church and Councellâ— he is cited out of another place speaking thus The vniuersall Churâ—â— hath faith which cannot faile not indeed assembled in a generall synâ— which wee haue vnderstoode to haâ— failed sometimes c. In which citaâ—n abruptlie broken of for aduanâ—ge the Authors speach is
dicens Eccâ—â—go vobiscum sum omnibus diebus Non dixit recum sum sc cum aliqua singulari persona sed vobiscum sum cum toâ—a Ecclesia Catholica Apostolica quae seduci non potest â—ec seducere habet fidele testimonium de Christo noâ—it omnia mysteria Sponsi sui cap. 19. vide etiam suprà pag. 49. certaine testimonie to the truth Wee cannot addresse our selues to the Predestinate for instruction â—or absolution for orders wee know not who they be nor how to finde theÌ„ out They be not the Symbolicall * wickliffs Argument The predestinate do perseuer in the faith Ergo they be the Symbolicall Church Is like this A mans soule is rationall Ergo a mans soule is a man Church they haue not all â—he conditions of it Neither is any â—articular Church or Congregation The Church symbolicall no not a Geâ—erall Councell A Councell is not â—till in being they be celebrated only sometimes whereas the Symbolicall Church is to be still So likewise is the Church diffused or Vniuersall Dan. 2. Matth. 16. Ioan. 14. Ephes 4. And against a Councell or a particular Church he that were disposed to cauill would pretend that faith were not allwaies in it and it therefore at that time no Church for Ecclesia is fidelium congregatio whereas the Church symbolicall is in 〈◊〉 times neuer failing which thing notwithstanding doth agree well vnto the Church vniuersall which is in 〈◊〉 times existent and in faith indeficient Esay 59. Ierem. 31. Ezech. 37. Dan. 1 Matth. 16. 28. Ioan. 14. 16. Tiâ— 1. ep 3. c. Ephes 4. She only hath * The predestinated preciselie haue them not all See the Disp li. 1. c. 5. 6. 7. li. 2 c. 2. 3 li. 3. c. 1. 6. 〈◊〉 the conditions of and indeed is thâ— symbolicall Church This construction of the wordâ— of Waldensis to one that reads thâ— whole discourse in him is plaiâ— and obuious This which hetherto I haue described This I saie thâ— Catholik and Apostolicall Church 〈◊〉 Christ the mother of beleeuing people which hath faith indeficient accordinâ— to the promise of Christ to Peter 〈◊〉 â—hen did beare the figure of the Church I haue asked for thee Peter that thy faith doth not faile is the symbolicall Church Hauing established this tenet he presentlie drawes from it an inference Non est ergo c. that being the vniuersall Church it is not anie particular as the African or the Roman particular Church or Dioces vide Disput pag. 619. ex Innoc 3. These are no more the symbolicall Church then particulars are the vniuersall Neither it is a generall synod such haue erred sometimes one at Ariminum another at Constantinople and some others But it is the Catholik Church of Christ dispersed ouer all the world come downe from the baptisme of our Sauiour by the Apostles and others their successors to thâ—se times which Catholik Church verilie doth containe veram fidem true faith there is one thing required to the Symbolicall Church and that which Wickleff also thought necessarie but that is not all and testimonium Christi fidele the faithfull testimonie of Christ there is an other and the exercise of both followes giuing wisdome to the litle ones amongst extreame errours retaining the truth firme The Deuil by wickleff suggested pestilent inuentions to abbet Rebellion and Schisme Praescitus non habetpotestatem c. Nullus est Dominus ciuilis nullus est Praelatus nullus est Episcopus dum est in peccato mortali Recitantur in Concilio Constant Sess 8. apud Wald. passim See aboue pag. 50. lit r. Here is the sence of his words to the full and for my part I see no more in them But you that can gase vpon chimeraes would persuade vs there are two things for your purpose the one that the Church of Rome may faile or erre and the other that no Generall Councells haue infallibilitie The former of these you ground vpon that part of his inference nec vtique particularis illa Romana neither also is it the particular Roman Church the later vpon those other quam Synodum aliquoties errasse percepimus c. which Synod wee haue vnderstood sometimes to haue erred as that of Ariminum gathered vnder Taurus the Prefect and that Constantinopolitan vnder Iustinian the yonger and some other These two parcels then and his opinion in these two points are next to be considered I take them in order 5. Nec vtique aa Suprà ad lit q. particularis illâ— Romana The forme of speach is negatiue and the author by it denieâ— something of the Roman Church aâ— â—s a particular Church the Queâ—on since you will needs make a â—estion of it is Whether he denies â—o be the Symbolicall Church as it â—eares he doth by what hath â—ne said of this place hetherto or â—ether he denies it perpetuall conâ—ncie in the faith and indefectibiliâ— In answer to which question if â—u turne to the 48. Chapter whose â—e is de praerogatiua perpetuae immuâ—atis Romanae Ecclesiae in fide Christi â—ab omni bb contagione haeresis illibatae Locus ergo vnde fluxit ab exordio sapientia Chriâ—na Romana est Ecclesia Ab hac enim praestatur huâ—nae inertiae dirigendae assistriâ— sapientia sedium diuinaâ—n vt nobiscum sit nobiscum laboret vt sciamus quid â—eptum sit coram Deo omni tempore Walden to 1. li. c. 48. Quomodo erit vna fides quando pro captu suo â—squisque varia meditatur inuenit nisi vno magistro â—ante vnus doceat paedagogus Ille puta quem ad hoc â—cium prae caeteris Christus elegit dum diceret Ego rogaâ—ro te Petre vt non deficiat fides tua Ibidem Et quid miâ— si Christo rogante Romana Ecclesia non potest in fide â—cere non est magnum Haeretice non est magnum vt â—od per se caderet Christo sustentante non possit cadere â—dem Ergo audacter dico in Christi nomine Christo â—ante Romanam Ecclesiam in doctrina Christi esse imâ—cabilem Ibidem Interrogat quis vnde Romanae Eccleâ— tanta authoritas Mihi videtur ex concessione Chriâ— ad confessionem Petri primi Pontificis Primus enim confessor fuit diuinae generationis c. quomodo ergo 〈◊〉 dubijs fidei ad illam de fide consulendam non curritur 〈◊〉 per quam totam Ecclesiam suam Christus fundasse coâ—uincitur Ibidem you shall finde auouched anâ— proued that Ecclesia Romana non pâ—test in fide deficere the Church 〈◊〉 Rome cannot faile in the faith Aâ— further I affirme boldlie in the naâ— of Christ and Christ aiding the Româ— Church that it is in the doctrine 〈◊〉 Christ impeccable The origen of thâ— he refers there to our Sauiouâ— prayer and his graunt and conclâ—ding the Chapter he saith cc Ibidem vide Sixt. Sen. in Cyr. Pits
alios autem ita lego vt quaâ—talibet sanctitate doctrinaque polleant non idâ—o verum puâ—em quia ipsi ita senserunt sed quia mihi vel per illos authores canonicos vel probabili ratione quod à veritate non abhorreat persuadere potuerunt Baro p. 333. ex Aug. Ego solis eis Scriptoribus qui canonici c. Ibidem 1. OVT of that which hath been obserued from Stapleton will appeare the sence of S. Augustine wherefore he comes next There are four or fiue places cited out of him against the authoritie of Councells but for the most part verie impertinentlie and altogether against his minde We knowe there is a greate difference betwixt the canonicall writers and others betwixt the Epistles of the Apostles and those of Bishops after them betwixt their Acts written by S. Luke who in all he affirmes or relates is infallible and the Acts of generall Councells whose writers had not that assistance Wee doe not equalize or parallell one of these writings with the other Wee giue the soueraigntie to the scripture as being infallible in all so farre that it doth no where at all mistake in any thing This reuerence wee giue to the testimonie of those writers in what euer they auerr and giue not the like to any other testibus aut testimonijs be they witnesses or testimonies Albe it wee beleeue other witnesses in diuers things also though not so generallie in all without exception But I come to your exceptions The first is out of the 19. Epistle where S. AVGVSTINE tells S. Hierom to whom he writes it that he doth not imagine he would haue him so reade his bookes as if it were a heinous thing to doubt whether perchance in them some errour might be found that priuiledge was reserued to sacred writers I confesse saith he that vnto those bookes of scripture onlie which are now called canonicall I haue learned to deferre this feare and honour that I most firmelie beleeue none of those Authors to haue erred any thing in writing and if in eis literis in those writings I finde any thing which may seeme contrarie to the truth I make no doubt but that either the booke or coppie is faultie or that the interpreter hath not vnderstood what was said or that I my selfe doe not conceaue or vnderstand it In Baroe who doth vrge this authoritie against the Church and Councells decree or sentence and impertinentlie you may note these corruptions first that for a Si cum doctiore amico sic disputemus vt quicquid dixerit necesse sit approbare nec quaerendi saltem causa liceat aliquantulum reluctari tum verò sine vllo timore offensionis tanquam in caÌ„po luditur sed mirum si nobis non illuditur Ego enim fateor charitati tuae solis eis ScripturaruÌ„ libris qui iam canonici appellantur didici hunc timorem honoremque deferre vt nullum eorum authorem scribeodo aliquid errasse firmissimè credam Ac si aliquid in eis offendero literis quod videatur contrarium veritati nihil alâ—ud quam vel mendosâ—m esse codicem vel interpretem non assecutum esse quod lictum est vel me minimè intellexisâ—e non â—mbâ—gam Alios autem ita lego vt qâ—aâ—ta â—beâ— sanctitate doctrinaque praepolleant non ideo veâ—â—m pâ—â—â—m quia ipsi ita senserunt sed quia mihi vel per illos authores canonicâ—s vel probabili ratione quod à vero non abhorreat persuadere potuerunt Nec te mi frater sentite aliquid aliter existimo prorsus inquam non te arbitror sic legi tuos libros velle tanquam Prophetarum vel Apostolorum de quorum scriptis quod omni errore careant dubitare nefarium est S. Aug. Epist 19. ad Hier. Scripturarum libris to accomodate it the better for his purpose he puts in Scriptorum and Scriptoribus vrging the word against vs. Secondlie he omits aliquid in that part nullum eorum authorum scribendo aliquid errasse whereas the force of the speach and prerogatiue is by that word specified Thirdlie because in the words immediatlie following if they had been put downe his corruptions had been laid open to the reader by another aliquid and litteris he leaues them out immediatlie ioyning others which he thought to be more for his purpose as by comparison of his citation put aboue pag. 101. to the words themselues in this Addition it will appeare QVanquam sicut paulò ante dixi tantummodo Scripturis canonicis hanc ingenuam debeam seruitutem qua eas solas ita sequar vt conscriptores earum nihil in eis omnino errasse nihil falliciter posuisse non dubitem Baro p. 335. ex S. Aug. ad eundem sensum plura S. Augustines minde is further opened by another place brought as against vs out of the same Epistle S. Hierome had obiected against him seuen authors for his opinion in the matter whereof they dispute in that conference made by letters and demanding whom he followed he S. Aug. shewes first that S. Hierome did not approue of fower of his owne so that he was to finde out onlie three to set against the three that remained to which purpose he mentioneth as fauouring him S. Ambrose and S. Cyprian vnto whom because be did not himselfe esteeme so of their authoritie as if there might not exceptions be taken against their writings or opinion in some matter he addes a third of authoritie incontroulable namelie S. Paul His b Flagitas á me vt aliquem saltem vnum ostendam cuius in hac resententiam sim secutus cùm tutam plures nominatim commemoraueris c. cùm sint fermè sex vel septem horum quatuor authoritatem tu quoque infringis Nam c. tres igitur restant c. Si quaeras quid hinc senserit noster Ambrosius quid noster itidem Cyprianus inuenies fortasse nec nobis defuisse quos in eo quod asserimus sequeremur quanquam sicut paulò ante dixi tantuÌ„modo Scripturis c. vt suprà pag. 105. S. August epist 19. words obiected which are by him vttered on the foresaid occasion be these I owe to the canonicall scriptures onlie this ingenuous seruice or subiection whereby I follow them onlie so as I firmelie beleeue that their writers erred in them nihil omninò nothing at all nor put any thing in them deceitfullie It is the verie same that was before deliuered out of Stapleton And the rest of the citations wherein he compares writings with the Scriptures haue all the samesence * Neque enim quorumlibet disputationes quamuis Catholicorum laudatorum hominum velut Scripturas Canonicas habere debemus vt nobis non liceat salua honorificentia quae illis debetur hominibus aliquid in eorum scriptis improbare atque respuere si forte inuenerimus quod aliter senserint quam veritas habet diuino adiutorio vel ab alijs
intellecta vel à nobis S. Aug epist 111. Other bookes haue not in euerie part that infallibilitie other writers haue not such ample assistance as the Sacred writers had SI diuinarum scripturarum earum sc quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate sine vllae dubitatione credendum est Alijs verò testibus vel testimonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis Baro p. 336. ex Aug. epist 112. 2. THe Second exception is that S. Augustine in an other place Epist 112. speakes not of writings only but of witnesses and leaues it as it is pretended in our choise whether wee will beleeue or not beleeue any but the Scripture Wherevnto I answer that he doth not either there or in any other place of his writings reiect all authoritie or testimonie that is other in your sence binding vs onlie to the scripture so as you pretend For it is manifest that he doth admit the testimonie of the Church as infallible esteeming it c S. August epist. 118. c. 5. most insolent madnes to contradict it yet the Church is not scripture To this purpose there be many places in him whereof I will cite one In his booke de Vnit. Eccl. disputing with an heretick about the Question of rebaptizing such as out of the Church had been baptized and vrging the custome of the Church which did receaue such as were penitent into communion without rebaptizing he makes this discourse d S. Aug. de vnit Eccles c. 19. If some wise man to whom our Lord Iesus giues testimonie should be consulted of vs in this Question wee ought no waies to doubt of doing or putting in execution what he tould vs least wee should be esteemed to repugne not so much him as our Lord Iesus Christ by whose testimonie he was commended now our Lord Iesus doth giue testimonie to his Church wherefore as that Church diffused thorough all Nations beginning at Hierusalem doth receaue such penitents so without all windings and tergiuersation thou art to be receaued And if thou wilt not thou doest most perniciouslie cōtrarie to thy owne saluation striue against not me or any mā but our Sauiour himselfe whilst thou wilt not beleeue that thou art so to be admitted as that Church which he whom not to beleeue thou doest confesse to be detestable commends with his testimonie doth admit The same is confirmed out of the Gospell wherein our blessed sauiour saith to his Apostles and Disciples and in them to the Church that they should beare e Matth. 24. Ioan. 15 testimonie of him yet the Apostles the Disciples the whole Church be not Scripture Againe f Luc. 10. he that heareth you heareth me saith our Sauiour he that contemneth you contemneth me There is therefore an authoritie aliue and distinct from the written word which wee must yeeld vnto by S. Augustine also confessed and consequentlie it is not in our choise to beleeue or contemne any but the scripture Nor were the primitiue Christians without obligation of beleeuing the Gospell proposed vnto them by the Apostles before it was written downe as you knowe by those words which immediatelie followe their commission g Marc. vlt. he that beleeueth not shall be condemned To the place obiected Supra pag 107. alijs testibus vel testmonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi creder◠vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti c. Pag. 108. his words aboue cited doe suggest an easie answer as this Others not commended by this authoritie beleeue or not beleeue as you see cause but others commended by this authoritie you must beleeue as farre as by it they are warranted and commended Our Sauiour proued that those who beleeued Moyses and the Prophets and the Psalmes must beleeue him for of him they giue testimonie The like it is of the Church if you beleeue the Prophets you must beleeue the vniuersall Church for they giue testimonie of it and as S. Augustine saith more cleere then of our i S. Augu. Enarr in psal 30. conc 2. Sauiour himselfe One testimonie may warrant another and so they will become in a manner one He that obaieth the magistrate doth therein honour the Prince by whom he is put in authoritie And he that yeildeth all due reuerence to Princes doth therein a dutie vnto God who commands it Wee stoope to God when with all reuerence we receaue his word written or vnwritten and wee submit our selues to the written word or Scripture when wee listen to the Church which the Scripture doth commend When S. Augustine in his dispute with Cresconius about rebaptization was come this k S. Aug. li. 1. contra Cresco c. 31. 32. quia nec vos potestis proferre de Scripturis quarum nobis communis est authoritas ab haereticis venientem denuò baptizatum nec nos ita susceptum quantum ad hanc remattinet par nobis causa est Since neither you can produce out of Scriptures whose authoritie is common to vs one comming from Heretikes againe baptized nor wee one so receaued for as much as concernes this matter that is producing out the Scripture an example of the one or the other our cause is equall he shewes notwithstanding how euen in this point the Church in his time and he with it followed the most certaine authoritie of the Scripture l Ibidem c. 35. neque enim paruï momenti c. for it is not of small regard or moment that whe among the Bishops of the age precedent to the time when Donatus part or faction began to be this Question did wauer and had the different Opiniōs of compartners or collegues amongst themselues without breach of vnitie it was thought good that this which wee now maintaine should be obserued by the whole Catholike Church spred ouer all the world And a litle after wherefore though trulie there be not any example of this thing brought out of the canonicall Scriptures yet the truth of the same Scriptures is held of vs and euen in this thing when wee doe that which hath now seemed good to the vniuersall Church whom the authoritie of the same Scriptures doth commend that because the holie Scripture cannot deceaue whosoeuer feares to be deceaued with the obscuritie of this Question and of any other obscure Question pertaining to faith it is the same eandem Ecclesiam de illa consulat let him require in it the iudgment of the same Church which the holie Scripture without ambiguitie doth demonstrate There is yet a further Answer in the word Alijs You know that actions donne with ones owne hād by the motion of his owne spirit a man reputes not aliene but his owne So doth our B. Sauiour esteeme the actions of his mysticall bodie donne by the motion of his Spirit Settle
it in your hearts not to meditate before what you shall answer for I will giue you a mouth and wisedome which â—ll your aduersaries shall not be able to gainesay nor resist Luc. 21. It shall â—e giuen to you in that same hower what â—ou shall speake for it it not you that â—peak Cum venerit ille Spiritus veritatis docebit vos omnem veritatem Non enim loquetur a semetipso sed quaecunque audiet loquetur c. de meo accipiet annuÌ„ciabit vobis Ioan. 16. Mea doctrina â—oÌ„â—st mea sed eius qui misit me Ioan. 6 Tâ—es sunt qui testimonium dant in caelo c. hi tres vnuÌ„ sunt 1. Ioan. 5. but the Spirit of your Father that â—eaketh in you Matt. 10. My words â—hat I haue put in thy mouth shall not â—epart out of thy mouth and out of the â—outh of thy seed c. saith our Lord â—om hence foorth and foreuer Esaie â—9 He that heareth you heareth me â—uke 10. Since you seek a proofe of â—hrist speaking in me 2. Cor. 12. The â—pirit of our Lord hath spoken by me â—nd his words by my tongue 2. Kings â— Againe The decrees which wee â—eak of haue the testimonie of the â—olie Ghost and the Scriptures â—ue the testimonie of the Holie â—host Now the Holie Ghost giuing testimonie to both these iâ— not thereby in himself deuided into two He is still the same testis Saint Gregorie our Apostle reuerenced the four first generall CouÌ„cels li. 1. Regest ep 24. vt quatuor Euangelia as he did the four Gospels Saint Augustine whose authoritie is heere obiected when he speakes of the sentence against the Donatists li. 6. de Bapt. c. 39. saies Deus plenario Concilio reuelauit The Church Waldensis aboue told you make no doubt but that the Holie Ghost assists her li. 2. Doct. fid c. 27. in her sincere oecumenicall assemblies He is present to them and defines in them So dâ— the Apostles beleeue too Act. 15. attributing their decree to the Holie Ghosâ— whose assistance was * Suggeret vobis omnia Ioh. 14. In vobis erit IbideÌ„ Docebit vos omnem veritatem c. 16. promised It hath seemed good to the Holie Ghosâ— and to vs. This for Councels Noâ— for Scripture Well spake the Holie Ghost by Esaâ— the Prophet vnto our Fathers Aâ— vlt. God who at sundrie times and 〈◊〉 diuers manners spake in times pasâ— vnto the Fathers by the Prophets Heâ— 1. He spake by the mouth of his hoâ— Prophets which haue beene since 〈◊〉 world began Luc. 1. Holie men of God spake as they were moued by the Holie Ghost 2. Pet. 1. In a word There are diuisions of graces but one Spirit and there are diuisions of operations but one Lord and there are diuisions of ministrations but one God who worketh all in all And the manifestation of the Spirit is giuen to euerie one to profit To one c. Vide Disput li. 3 vbi agitur de Spiritus Sancti assistentia And all these things worketh one and the same Spirit diuiding to euerie one according as it will 1. Cor. 12. I forbeare to note that Saint Augustine speakes in the place obiected of a point * Cùm enim petiuisses vt de inuisibili Deo vtrum peroculos corporeos possit videri prolixè aliquid copioseque ad te scriberem negare non potui S. Aug. Epist 112. Quod non sic ostendero vt aut corporis aut animi sensu visum perceptumque teneatur tamen dixero aliquid quod aut verum quidem aut falsum esse necesse sit sed nullo illorum duûm genere videatur restat vt tantum modo credatur vel non credatur Sed si dininarum Scripturarum earum sc quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua quod dixero firmatur authoritate sine vlla dubitatione credendum est Alijs verò testibus c. vt suprà Ibidem Dico itaque quod visuri sint Deum in ipso corpore sed vtrum per ipsum sicut per corpus nunc videmus solem lunam stellas mare ac terram quae sunt in ea non parua quaestio est S. Aug. li 22. de Ciuit. Dei c. 29. Ratiocinatio illa Philosophorum qua disputant ita mentis aspectu intelligibilia videri sensu corporis sensibilia id est corporalia vt nec intelligibilia per corpus nec corporalia per scipsa mens valeat intueri si posset nobis esse certissima profectò certum esset per oculos corporis etiam spiritalis nullo modo posse videri Deum Sed istam ratiocinationem vera ratio prophetica irridet authoritas Ibidem Tametsi nec Scripturae nec ConcilioruÌ„ nec PatruÌ„ testimonijs expressè definituÌ„ sit noÌ„ posse Deum oculo corporeo videri id tamé adeo efficaci ratione naturali c. Vasquez 1. p. disp 40 c. 2. not determined by the Church whence ariseth a third Answer And he that can but English his m Inspiciatur codex manuscriptus words will himself espie a fourth and a fift Quasi Episcoporum Concilia Scripturis canonicis aliquando fuerint comparata Baro. p. 336 ex Aug. 3. The third exception is that Councells according to S. Augustine be not equall to the Scripture But I see not how any thing can be drawne hence against their infallibilitie in decrees Wee doe not equall the Apostles or the Prophets to our Sauiour Iesus Christ nor the written word with the eternall and increated word yet the Prophets and the Apostles and the Scripture or written word are infallible Moreouer the Canonicall Scriptures are infallible in all what euer they auouch of what argument or matter soeuer it be which latitude of infallibilitie wee finde not in the acts of Generall Councels nor in any other booke or writing as you were told before and though I doe not your selfe will repeate againe out of S. Augustine quis n S. Aug. li. 2. de bapt contr Donat. c. 3. nesciat Sanctam Scripturam canonicam tam veteris quam noui testamenti certis suis terminis contineri eamque omnibus posteriorum Episcoporum literis ita praeponi vt de illa omninò dubitari disceptari non possit vtrum verum vel rectum sit quicquid in ea scriptum esse coÌ„stiterit That quicquid doth import an amplitude of infallibilitie which Councells haue not and therefore they are not equall vnto Scripture The Donatists excepted against a Councell because it had in it registred the daie and the Consuls o Etiam hinc gestis ipsis CirteÌ„sibus calumniabantur quia ibi dies CoÌ„sules legebantur exigebaÌ„t à nobis vt aliqua Ecclesiastica Concilia proferremus vbi dies recitarentur consules c. etiam hoc exigebant vt de Scripturis sanctis ostenderemus alicubi dies Consules esse conscriptos quasi Episcoporum Concilia Scripturis
canonicis aliquando fuerint coÌ„parata aut possunt etiam ipsi de Scripturis sanctis proferre CoÌ„cilium vbi Apostoli iudices sederint accusatum aliquem damnauerint vel absoluerint Et tamen respondebimus eis etiam Prophetas libros praenotatis definitis commendasse temporibus quo anno cuius regis c. S. Aug. li. cont Donatist post Collat. c. 15. Requiring of the Catholikes to shewe any where out of Scripture where the daies and consuls were registred and enrolled Wherevnto S. Augustine answers that Councells are not parallelled with Scripture the one to wit the Councell may doe well in registring both daies and Consuls though the other doe not so or they may be added and not by the authoritie of the Councell though nothing be registred in the Scripture but by the direction of the holie Ghost The acts of Councells are not equalized in exactnes and extent of infallibilitie to the books written by Gods Secretaries wee giue the prerogatiue to the Scriptures and so do the words obiected out of S. Augustine which are cited in the margine In the same place whence they were taken he tels how the Catholikes did forbeare to examine why in one Councell the daie was noted and in the other not quia illi Donatistae vanas moras volebant innectere and all heretikes are of the same condition they hinder with impertinent Cauills the processe of the Catholikes argumeÌ„ts and catch at all occasions to trifle out the time For the same cause disputing in another place with an Arian he did forbeare to vrge against him the authoritie of the Councell of Nice against which the heretick tooke exceptions opposing the Ariminian Councell The examen of which two points thereby called into controuersie I meane the lawfulnes of the one and the vnlawfullnes of the other would haue taken vp the time and transferd the dispute into another question which heretikes greedilie desire when they cannot answer but S. Augustine would not permit that scope to his aduersarie and therefore hauing mentioned the two foresaid Councells and in honour of the one which had defined the thing he was disputing of said it p S. Aug li. 3. contra Max. c. 14. was there veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum established by the authoritie of truth and truth of authoritie and contrariwise of the other that there were multi paucorum fraude decepti many deceaued by the fraude or circumuention of a fewe whereby hereticall impietie endeuoured to weaken what the Catholike fathers in the power of truth and authoritie had established Sed nunc nec ego NicenuÌ„ nec tu debes Ariminense tanquam praeiudicaturus proferre Concilium nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum authoritatibus noÌ„ quorumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus c Baro p. 337. ex Aug. hauing I saie mentioned these two Councells he forbeares to vrge his argument out of the authoritie of the Nicene Councell and makes it out of that authoritie which his aduersarie did admit thereby the sooner to conclude being so to dispute onlie about the meaning of the words he was to bring and needing not to argue for his authoritie whose words they were But now for both of vs be content with this course neither doe I the Nicene neither oughtest thou as by way of preiudice produce the Ariminian Councell neither am I held in with the authoritie of this the Ariminian nor thou of that the Nicene thou doest assume to thy selfe the libertie not to obaie it and out * Infrà in fi huius relectionis ad sextum of thy malice art not held in with that great authoritie though thou and all others ought to be since q Hoc est illud homousion quod in Concilio Nicaeno aduersus haereticos Arianos à Catholicis Patribus Veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum est quod postea in Concilio Ariminensi propter nouitatem in verbis minus quam oportuit intellectum quam tamen fides antiqua peperaâ— multis paucorum fraude deceptis haeretica impietas sub haeretico Imperatore Constantio labefactare tentauit Sed post non longum tempus libertate Catholicae fidei praeualente c. S. Aug. li 3. contra Maxim c. 14. Sed nunc nec ego c. vt supra in marg Ibidem the authoritie of truth it selfe which cannot lie doth there establish the thing which wee dispute of See what S. Athanasius hath testified of the authoritie of that Councell to conuince Heretiks Efficax ad omnem impietatem euertendam c. infrà in Addition ad Athan. PEtit Augustinus à Donatistis vt Ecclesiam suam demonstrent Non in sermonibus rumoribus Afrorum non in Concilijs Episcoporum suorum non in literis quorumlibet disputatorum non in signis prodigijs fallaâ—ibus c. sed in praescripto legis in Prophetarum praedictis in Euangelistarum praedicationibus Baro. p. 337. in eandem sententiam plura p. 338. 4. THe fourth exception out of S. Augustine is that disputing with the Donatists he vrged them to shewe by Scripture how theirs and not the Catholike or vniuersall was the true Church and would not haue the matter tryed by their Councells I answer that though the Church once knowne and her authoritie admitted that will serue to determine controuersies as you heard S. Augustine saie before yet when the Question is of the Church it selfe Whether it be a thing in the intention of our Sauiour confined to one Nation or extended ouer all and with an Aduersarie who doth admit Scripture the way to demonstrate against him vt ex tuis concessionibus c. S. Aug. li. con Cresc c. 33. the way I saie to demonstrate against him is to looke vpon the Prophecies and see the description of it there and to harken withall what our Sauiour in the Gospell hath deliuered of it The Donatists with whom S. Augustine deales admitted the canonicall bookes wherein these two things are and they being once admitted the Question might be defined out of them And of the testimonies of the Lawe and Prophets and Psalmes and of our blessed Sauiour himselfe in this controuersie of the Church S. Augustine said vnto the Donatists r S. Aug. de vnit Eccles cap. 16. haec sunt caâ—sae nostrae documenta haec fundamenta haec firmamenta the cause he speakes of was Whether the Donatists iâ— Africk or the Catholikes in all Nations were the Church whether 〈◊〉 were a thing confined vnto the limits of that contrey or extended ouer all the world according to Gods intention and the testimonies of our Sauiour and of the Law and of the Prophets and Psalmes these testimonies he saith were documents and foundations and establishments of this cause He was not to proue it out of Councells for he that denies the whole doth withall reiect the authoritie of each part or what euer is within the whole
they who condemned and opposed the whole Catholike Church did withall sleight the authoritie of her Councells as Pagans also doe but he was to proue it by a principle which they reiected not Neither doth it followe that Councells therefore in themselues are not worthie of beleefe or infallible in their assertion or that S. Augustine did not esteeme them so when to conuince the Donatists he tooke his argumeÌ„ts froÌ„ the Prophets to confirme or proue the foresaid point S. Peter heard a voice from Å¿ 2. Petr. 1. heauen testifying of our Sauiour yet he confirmes it the same way firmiorem babemus Propheticum sermonem wee haue the prophets words which yet confirme vs more and our B. Sauiour though most worthie of credit as being the truth it selfe confirmed his resurrection and other mysteries to the Disciples by the same t Ipse Dominus Iesus cuÌ„ resurrexisset à mortuis discipuloruÌ„ oculis videndum manibusque tangeÌ„dum corpus suum offerret ne quid tamen fallaciae se pati arbitrarentur magic eos testimonijs legis propherataruÌ„ psalmoruÌ„ confirmandos esse iudicauit ostendens ea de se impleta quae fuerant tanto antè praedicta S. Augu. de vnit Eccles c. 16. meanes One testimonie as I said before vpon the like occasion doth illustrate another and many ioyned together doe more easilie master our vnderstanding and make it yeeld obedience to the truth For the better comprehension of S. Augustines minde in this matter I will adde a word or two more touching this waie of discouering a truth in Religion suppose it be whether Iesus be the Messias and Redeemer of the world or whether this or that congregation be the Church of the Messias For the notice of the former of these two reade the Prophets where you shall finde that a Messias shall come that he shall be borne in Bethlem preach doe miracles be resisted and reiected by the Iewes who were keepers of these bookes of Prophesies be persecuted scourged put to death pierced and after death rise againe and be acknowledged and adored by the Gentiles This you reade there and it is a good direction but this is not all You must finde out the man to whom this description doth agree and in the comparison of them both together the man Iesus with the circumstances of his birth life and death to the propheticall description and the Prophesie to the man in this comparison I say you knowe that which you looke for vizt that Iesus is the Messias and redeemer of the world when you would get knowledge of the later viz. which companie is the Church you first take notice of a companie of people professing one faith in all Nations beginning at Hierusalem defending it by her Pastors u Vt omittam sapientiaÌ„ syncerissimaÌ„ quaÌ„ in Ecclesia esse Catholica non creditis multa sunt alia quae in eius gremio me iustissimè teneant Tenet consensio populorum atque gentium tenes authoritas miraculis inchonta spe nutrita charitate aucta vetustate firmata tenet ab ipsa sede Petri Apostoli cui pascendas oues suas post resurrectioneÌ„ Dominus coÌ„mendauit vsque ad praesentem episcopatum successio sacerdotum tenet postremò ipsum Catholicae nomeÌ„ c. S. August cont Epist. Fundamenti c. 4. Ego verò Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoueret authoritas Ibid. c. 5. Cum igitur tantum auxilium Dei tantum profectuÌ„ fructumque videamus dubitabimus nos eius Ecclesiae coÌ„deregremio quae vsque ad confessionem generis humani ab apostolica sede per successiones episcoporuÌ„ frustra haereticis circumlatrantibus partim plebis ipsius iudicio partim conciliorum grauitate partim etiam miraculorum maiestate damnatis culmen authoritatis obtinuit cui nolle primas dare vel summae profecto impietatis est vel praecipitis arrogantiae S. Aug. de vtil credendi c. 17. in Councells and otherwise offering to God euerie where Sacrifice or oblation leading an innocent life in exteriour profession and confirming with miracles her beleefe and doctrine but this alone so abstracted from the increate authoritie doth not breed an act of diuine beleefe that this companie is the Church of God wherefore you goe further and in the Prophets and other parts of the Bible reade a description of the Church diffused ouer all the world beginning at Hierusalem with power to meet in Councell and assistance of the Spirit offering to God in all Nations a cleane oblationâ— disposed Hierarchicallie with her watchmen euer on her walles heâ— Pastors readie to maintaine the truth and attending carefullie to the flock that by Errour they be not circumuented and then comparing one of these vnto the other vizt the companie to the prophesie the prophecie to the companie in the comparison you finde and beleeue with an act of diuine faith the true Church It is this as I conceaue which S. Augustine points at in the place before cited when he saith our Sauiour confirmed the faith oâ— his resurrection by testimonies oâ— the Prophets x S. Aug. de vnit Eccles c. 16 ostendens ea de sâ— impleta que fuerant tanto ante praedicta shewing those things to be fulfilled of him which so longe before were forâ—told And to this end he shewed hiâ— hands and side when he did appeare after his resurrection Which brought his disciples in minde of foderunt manus meas pedes meos aspicient ad me quem confixerunt they haue digged my hands and my feete they shall looke vpon me whom they haue pierced and the rest mouing them to faith and S. Thomas putting his hand in to the wound in his Master found God How to finde the Church in this manner you haue beene tould y Disp li. 2. els-where Looking all about on the world and into monuments of antiquitie you see a great companie of people reaching from the Apostles time and stretched out into all Nations communicating with the See Apostolike in the profession of one and the same Religion and holding out a booke to all that will reade it You reade and obserue And considering the companie you percaue the booke is a prophesie for being written long before the companie was extant it doth describe it perfectlie and foretels the comming of it with diuers particulars that come not of necessitie but of election and free choise considering the booke you perceaue the companie to be the Church for there you finde it so deliuered and affirmed by him that made the booke Disp p. 177. who foreseeing things future many ages before they came to passe certainly foretold of it and is worthilie belieued as hauing such an infinite foresight and certaine comprehension of all kind of things future ET ipsa concilia quae per singulas regiones vel prouincide fiunt plenariorum conciliorum authoritati quae fiunt ex vniuerso orbe Christiano fine vllis
and this custome onlie was opposed to those which endeuoured to bring in that noueltie of rebaptization because they could not apprehend the truth yet afterwards whilst amongst many on both sides it is spoken of and sought it is not only sound out but also brought to the authoritie and strength of a generall Councell after Cyprians passion indeed but afore wee were borne And a litle after the words obiected gg c. 4. Neither durst wee affirme any such thing if wee were not well grounded vpon the most consenting or agreeable authoritie of the vniuersall Church vnto which vndoubtedlie he S. Cyprian would haue yeelded if as then the truth of this question being cleered and declared had been established by a generall Councell Hence it followes first that he did acknowledge in generall Councells authoritie to determine controuersies and this controuersie particularlie of rebaptization which you hh Error de rebaptizatione hereticorum qui certè fundamentalis â—o fuâ—â— noâ—dum erat in concilio plenario damnatus c. Baro p. 348. confesse was not in a matter fundamentall and that therein the truth was established by authoritie not of scripture this matter was not so resolued but of the world in a Councell and so farre established that all were to beleeue it and remotis dubitationibus without as much as doubting of it Whence it comes secondlie that to resist such a decree it is diabolicall which word he doth vse vppon another occasion and that such as maintaine the contrarie are indeed heretikes Thirdlie it is to be repeated which hath been said oft before that though wee maintaine the infallibilitie of sincere and approued generall Councells in their decrees of faith yet wee doe not beleeue that their infallibilitie is extended vnto all they write or speake and in all kinde of matter as not equallizing their acts with bookes of Scripture and consequentlie there may be something in such a Councell sometime that may need mending Neither yet doe wee maintaine or beleeue that all Councells which goe vnder the name of generall haue infallibilitie in their decrees some haue as those which are approued some haue not and these later may need mending euen in the decree they make touching faith Moreouer though the Councell that is plenarie and approued cannot commaund a vice or condemne vertue by decree yet may it commaund that which after may proue inconuenient or forbid what after may be admitted when circumstances are changed And if a lawe which at first was well made the circumstances of time and persons being afterwards other then they were before and notablie changed become inconuenient and consequentlie not good in these circumstances though good in it selfe and in other circumstances such as those were wherein it was first made it may be changed by power equall to that which made it The Apostles by decree did forbid the eating of suffocata things strangled yet afterwards when the circumstances were charged and feare of scandall quite remoued the Church began to doe the contrarie To frequent the ceremonies of the lawe now it were a Sinne peccaret mortalitersi quis nunc ceremonias obscruaret S. Tho. 1.2 q. 103. a. 4. though you knowe by what authoritie for the time they were commaunded If you be sick physick is good if you be well the same is bad for you The same thing may be conuenient and inconuenient good and bad in diuers circumstances When the common-wealth is distempered a lawe may be necessarie and at other times not vsefull yea inconuenient and therefore to be annulled And the common-wealth in anulling of it mends her Statute-booke respectiuelie to these later circumstances though when she made it first she did not commit a fault Fourthlie it is to be noted that by the doctrine of S. Augustine before deliuered there be some kinde of Councells which in their decrees of faith are not to be mended nor to be doubted of that it is hereticall to oppose them and consequentlie that they haue nor exteriour onlie but interiour obedience also remotis dubitationibus due to such their decrees which being manifest in him you labour in vaine to be extend his words obiected vnto all which were to make him contradict both the truth and the Church of his time and himselfe He saith and wee too that some generall Councells may be mended when by tryall or experiment that is opened which was shut vp and knowne which before was vnknowne but some generall Councells cannot be mended no nor questioned or doubted of in their decrees touching faith Now to your obiections in particular First you saie that he speakes of mending in matter of faith I answer that those words in matter of faith be your addition He speakes indeed of mending in such matters as by triall or experiment may be knowne but diuine verities which are the obiect of our faith be not of this nature Neither if there had been expressed in that clause which is of generall Councels matters of faith were you able to conclude any thing against vs for wee graunt that some which beare the name may be mended in that also Of all wee cannot graunt it without contradicting S. Augustine and making him withall to contradict himselfe Secondlie you saie that his scope or intention was to distinguish the authoritie of Scripture from all other authoritie wherefore since no generall Councell whatsoeuer is Scripture he meanes them all and will haue all subiect vnto mending I answer that he intended to satisfie three things obiected 1. S. Cyprians sentence or example 2. S. Cyprians writings 3. S. Cyprians Councell The comparison of Scripture is with writings and it is a part of his answer to the Second point as I haue related it And it is true that this writing hath the prerogatiue aboue all writings vide suprà pag. 130. pag. 106. marg that nothing at all can be questioned which it affirmes To S. Cyprians Epistles or any other mans wee owe not that seruice or honour Of Councels he speakes afterwards in the third place and you knowe that it is not essentiall to their decrees to be written There is also great difference betwixt Councells and the Scripture in infallibilitie as hath been showne many times although the decrees in faith of such as are approued are infallible But if you will haue him aime at this that all generall Councels whatsoeuer may be mended and in their decrees of faith you make him as before was obserued to contradict himselfe For these are contradictorie some may not as that of Nice and all may Moreouer by that saepè it is manifest that his speach is not generall as you would haue it saepè is short of Semper And the qualification which he doth vse is another argument of the same Thirdlie you saie that vnles S. Augustine speake in the words principallie obiected of amendment in matter of faith he leaues vnanswered the Donatists obiection But neither will this make any thing to your
Ecclesiasticae doctrinae Idem in Eâ—st ad Episc Africae ouerthrowe the coÌ„trarie and to put the matter b Ego arbitrabar omniuÌ„ quotquot vnquaÌ„ fuere haereticorum inanem garrulitateÌ„ Nicaeno Concilio sedatam esse naÌ„ fides quae inibi a Patribus secuÌ„duÌ„ sacras Scripturas tradita confessionibus confirmata est satis mihi idonea efficax que videbatur ad omnem impietatem euertendam pietatem eius quae in Christo est fidei constituendaÌ„ Atque ideo diuersis Concilijs per GalliaÌ„ Hispanias Romae celebratis omnes qui in eo conuentu fuere istos luci fugas qui sese etiamnum occultant quae Arrij sunt sapiunt commâ— calculo vnius Spiritus incitatu anathemate percusserunt eâ— quod isti sibi nomina vendicauerint Synodorum c. 〈◊〉 Athanas Epist ad Epictet Qua igitur audacia fit vt post tanti Concilij authoritatem disceptationes aut quaestiones infâ—tuant Ibidem out 〈◊〉 question and so farre that who 〈◊〉 did oppose themselues were c Ego autem demiratus sum tuam pietatem haec sustinuisse quod non simul istos compescuerit piamâ—dem in Concilio Nicaeno traditam vt suprà illis proposâ—erit vt ijs auditis vel in quietem se darent vel si inquieti intradicerent haeretici homines iudicarentur Ibidem â—ereticks It was a vaine thing so he steemed it in the Arians by other CouÌ„cells to seek to reuerse what was â—â—ere established the definition of â—â—e holie Ghost there made the word â—f God by that Councell remaines foâ—uer d Vanus eorum labor qui contra illud Nicenum aliâ— subinde concilia moliuntur quippe qui plusquam decem synodos iam instituerint in singulis semper aliquid innouantes c. ignari interim omnem plantationem quaâ— non plantauerit pater caelestis cradicandam esse verbâ—â— autem illud Domini per oecumenicam Niceae Synodum in aternum manet S Athanas Epist. ad Episc Africae verbum illud Domini per â—licaenum Concilium manet in aeterâ—um As for the comparison which he â—akes with scripture it e Catholici Scripturam Sacram non subijciunt sed anteponunt Concilijs neque in hoc vlla controuersia esâ— Bellarm. li. 2. de Concilijs c. 12. Quod si interdum aliqâ— Catholici dicunt Scripturam pendere ab Ecclesia siue 〈◊〉 Concilio non intelligunt quoad authoritatem secundum se sed quoad explicationem quoad nos Ibidem hurteth â—ot He that saith the scripture where it is plaine and vniuersallie â—eceaued is more powerfull then a Councell or that the eternall veâ—tie opeÌ„lie reuealed as it is to Saints 〈◊〉 more powerfull then scripture â—oth not preiudice infallibilitie Both â—ay haue it and yet one be more â—owerfull And this supposed visit â—hat both scripture and the Counâ—ell be infallible but the power of cripture more the discourse of S. Athanasius is conuincing He thaâ— will not submit his iudgment to thaâ— authoritie which is most powerfull doth in vaine pretend he will be ruled by the lesse he doth easilie contemne a Councell who contemneâ— the Scripture proposed by the vniuersall Church as the Arians did who contradicted open Scripture and all Antiquitie Neither doth this make any thing against the decision of controuersies by Councells for though the waie of Councells be a certaine waie to determine what wee must beleeue yet may there be another way to finde it out and that certaine too And doubtles he that seeth in scripture that which he knowes the whole symbolicall Church that which holds out the booke wherein â—he reades it doth beleeue is more powerfullie moued to giue assent then he that heares a Councell onâ—ie And our assent is more proue when the Prophets and Apostles all propose the same then when one alone doth auouch it though one Prophet or Apostle by himselfe be sufficient and infallible §. XII Vincentius Lirinensis will haue Church-authoritie relied vpon in matter of faith as certaine and vndoubted How a man is to carrie himself when matter of faith is questioned The way to finde the Catholike sence Generall Councels infallible in their decrees and those are Hereticks that contradict and oppose them SAepe magno studio summa attentione perquirens à quaplurimis sanctitate doctrina praestantibus viris quonam modo possim certa quadam quasi generali ac regulari viâ— Catholicae fidei veritatem ab haereticae prauitatis falsitate discâ—nere huiusmodi semper responsum ab omnibus ferèretuli Quoâ— siue ego siue quis alius vellet exurgentium hereticorum fraâ—des deprehendere laqueosque vitare in fide sanus atque integer permanere duplici modo munire fidem suam Domino adiouante deberet Primò scilicet diuinae legis authoritate tuâ— deinde Ecclesiae Catholicae traditione Baro p. 349. ex vincent Lycin c. 1. VINCENTIVS LIRINENSIS The argument taken from this Father is that in his golden treatise entitled Aduersus prophanas haereseô◠nouationes he hath omitted to specifie generall Councells and their decrees and diuers leaues are spent tâ— proue that he did not giue vnto them any place in the direction of our beleefe But no paines will serue Hâ— doth more then once or twice mention them and hath testified whaâ— he thought of their authoritie Two generall a Vicent Lyrin c. 1. waies there are to distinguish the truth from errour in matâ—er of Religion the one by Scripture â—he other by Tradition but the scripture is profound and obscure wheâ—evpon it hath come to passe that diuers heretikes haue interpreted it â—iuers waies so that to knowe the â—ight meaning of it it is necessarie â—o recurre to tradition and as he â—aith in the second chapter of his booke b Idem c. 2. vide Disp li. 5. c 1. li. 4. c. 8. pag. 405. pag. 395 fine that the line of the propheticall and Apostolicall interpretation be directed according to the rule of the Ecclesiasticall and Catholike sence Which Catholik sence may be found three waies chieflie according as he conceaues it one is to see if it be held by the symbolicall or vniuersall Church a second is to see if it be held by the Fathers each writing in his owne time a third to see whether it be defined in any generall Councell By these three waies principallie a man is directed to the Catholik or true sence of scripture and all three are not necessarie but any of the three will serue the turne c Vâ—iâ—nt c. â— In the Catholik Church saith he wee must haue a great care wee hold that which hath bene beleeued euery where that which hath been beleeued euer that which hath been beleeued by all for this is truelie and properlie Catholick as the power of the name and the definition doth declare which truelie doth comprehend all vniuersallie And this is donne in fine if we follow vniuersalitie antiquitie consent Vniuersalitie wee shall follow
thus if wee confesse that one faith to be true which the whole Church thorough the world doth acknowledg And antiquitie thus if wee doe not in any sort goe back from those sences which it is manifest that our holie Auncestors and Fathers haue celebrated and commended and Censent likewise if wee followe the definitions and decrees of all or neere all the priests and masters in Antiquitie And d Quid igitur faciet Christianus Catholicus si se aliqua Ecclesiae particula ab vniuersalis fidei communione praeciderit quid vtique nisi vt pestisero corruptoque meÌ„bro sanitatem vniuersi corporis anteponats quod si nouella aliqua coÌ„tagia non iam portiunculam tantum sed totam pariter Ecclesiam commaculare conetur locum hunc corruperuÌ„t Wittaker Vitus haeretici tunc item prouidebit vt antiquitati inhaereat quae prorsus iaÌ„ non potest vlla nouitatis fraude seduci Quid si in ipsa vetustate duorum aut trium hominuÌ„ vel certè ciuitatis vnius aut etiam prouinciae alicuius error deprehendatur Tunc omnino curabit vt paucoruÌ„ temeritati vel inscitiae fi qua sunt vniuersaliter antiquitus vniuersalis Ecclesiae decreta praeponat Quid si tale aliquid emergat vbi nihil huiusmodi reperiatur Tuuc operam dabit vt collatas inter se MaioruÌ„ coÌ„sulat interrogeâ—que sententias eorum duÌ„taxat qui diuersis licet teÌ„poribus locis in vnius tameÌ„ Ecclesiae Catholica communione fide permanentes magistri probabiles extiterunt quicquid noÌ„ vnus aut duo taÌ„tum sed omnes pariter vno eodemque coÌ„senâ—â— apertè frequeÌ„ter perseueranter tenuisse scripsisse docuisse cognouerit id sibi quoque intelligat absque vlla dubitatione credendum Vinc Lyrin c. 4. more he hath to the same purpose He liued in the yeare 440. and before he wrote this booke there had been three generall Councells whose decrees though not made the * Nicenum anno 325. first of them much more then a hundred yeeres before him he â—umbers amongst the records of anâ—iquitie which are to be looked into And in like manner the decrees maâ—e 200. 500. 1000. yeares before vs â—ake place and order in the records â—f antiquitie respectiuelie to our times the distance of precedence â—eing more then was the distance of any Councell precedent respectiuelie vnto him You are further to obserue that â—o the vniuersalitie of a truth he doth not require that it be distinctlie beleeued of all that professe Christian religion some haue professed it who beleeued not the blessed Trinitie others denied the Incarnation the greatest mysteries were not Catholick in this sense neither doth â—he require that a point or veritie which is Catholik be such that it hath been expreslie and distinctlie beleeued of all Catholiks at all times the Catholick Epistles in this sence e Vide Disp pag. 431. An excellent lesson for these times were not all Catholick but his meaning is as I insinuated before that a sence or veritie appertaining to faith which is beleeued by the Symbolicall that is by the vniuersall catholike Church either allwaies or at any time for it can neuer erre in diuine faith or which the Fathers haue vniformelie in their times and ages taught and professed or which hath beene defined by all or neere all the Pastors those which are to teach in a generall councell is to be receaued as a Catholick sense Twice in that little booke herepeates againe this matter of finding out the Catholik sense by antiquitie consenting either in Councell or out of Councell and by vniuersalitie and in both places the definition of generall Councells and their authoritie comes in As in the 38. chapter where giuing direction how to auoid hereticks who like the Deuil vrge Scriptures against the truth in this case saith he Catholikes shall take greate care that they interprete the diuine canon according to the traditions of the vniuersall Church and according to the rules of the Catholike doctrine or decree wherein likewise it is necessarie that they follow the vniuersalitie antiquitie and consent of the Catholick Church And if at any time a part doth rebell against the whole noueltie against antiquitie or the disagreement of one or some fewe erring persons against the consent of all or at least of farre more Catholikes let them preferre the integritie of the whole before the corruption of the part And in the same whole the religion of antiquitie before the prophanesse of noueltie as also in antiquitie it selfe let them preferre before the rashnes of a verie fewe f primuÌ„ omnium generalia si qua sunt vniuersalis coÌ„cilij decreta praeponant tuÌ„c deinde si id minus est sequantur quod proximum est multorum atque magnoruÌ„ consentientes sibi sententias magistrorum Vincent Lirin c 38. first of all if any be the generall decrees of an oecumenicall Councell then after if that be not let theÌ„ followe that which is next to wit the sentences or opinions of many and great masters consenting amonge themselues In the next chapter he tells what Fathers those must be whose opinions wee take they must be g Idem c. 39. orthodoxe such as liuing piouslie in the Catholike faith and communion and remaining constant haue died in Christ or happilie bene put to death for him and those he saith are so to be beleeued that what soeuer either all or the greater part haue established or confirmed receauing holding or deliuering with one and the same meaning manifestlie oft constantlie as it were in a certaine councell of masters agreeing among themselues the same is to be esteemed certaine and vndoubted And againe in the h Idem c. 40. next Hos in Ecclesia Dei diuinitus per tempora loca dispensatos quisquis in sensu Catholici dogmatis vnum aliquid in Christo sentientes contempserit non hominem contemnit sed Deum He that contemnes these fathers diuinelie distributed according to times and places in the Church of God agreeing in Christ in the sence of a Catholick point of doctrine he contemneth not man but God So greate hee esteemeth this authoritie of the fathers and masters which God hath dispensed not at one but in seuerall times and yet the generall decrees of an oecumenicall Councell with him haue i c. 38. vt suprà the precedence primum omnium generalia si qua sint vniuersalis Concilij decreta praeponant tunc deinde si id minus est sequantur quod proximum est multorum at que magnorum consentientes sibi sententias magistrorum Againe in the 41. chapter he repeates a second time the same matter of finding out the Catholike sence by antiquitie consenting in Councell or out of Councell where he speakes yet more home k Diximus in ipsa Ecclesiae vetustaâ—e duo quaeâ—am vehementer studioseque obseruaÌ„da quibus penitus inhaerere deberent quicunque haeretici esse nolunt PrimuÌ„ si
by occasion of your discourse in the Councell of Chalcedon six hundred Fathers together acknowledging diuine assistance to the Nicene so farre that the Decrees they said could not be retracted without 1 Si ergo Spiritus SaÌ„ctus coÌ„sedit Patribus vt manifeste consedit ordinauit que ordinata sunt qui retractat ea Spiritus Sancti cassat gratiam SaÌ„cta Synodus dixit Omnes haec dicimus Anathema qui retractat Conc. Chalced. Acti 1. making void the grace of the Holie Ghost And others accordinglie saie they were 2 S. Leo Epist 53. 54. vide etiam S. Aug. li. 6. de Bapt. c. 39. diuinelie ordained 3 Si quis fidem illam à saÌ„cta magna Synodo optimè diuino afflatu definitaÌ„ ac expositam dicere voluerit basim animarum nostraruÌ„ fundamentum que inconcussum munitum is vtique probatissime loquitur Lib. 1. de Trinit apud Cyrill Alexand Suis auteÌ„ verbis à nobis scribatur diuinuÌ„ sanctissimum Synodi illius Oraculum IbideÌ„ Vide S. Ambros li. 1. de Fide ad Gratian. oracles of faith It sufficeth to make instance in that one being the first oecumenicall that was celebrated after the Apostles daies to shewe that it stopped not in them but was continued after their the Apostles time vnto the Church And in like manner it was affoorded afterwards to the second and the third and fourth the decrees of which 4 li. 1 Regest Epist 24. Quintum quoque Concilium pariter veâ—eror Ibidem S. Gregorie our Apostle did honour as the Gospels and so also to the rest by vertue of one and the same Promise made absolutelie to the Church Vpon which promise that also of the Apostles did relie as before hath been obserued Moreouer the Fathers held that the definitioÌ„s of oecumenicall CouÌ„cells might not be called into a Conc. Chalc. acti 1. anathema â—â—qui reâ—ractat De rebus apud NicaeaÌ„ apud Chalcedonam definitis nulluÌ„ audemus inire tractatum tanquaÌ„ dubia vel infirma sint quae tanta per Spiritum sanctuÌ„ fixit authoritas S. Leo epist. 78. vbi plura in eandem sententiam doubt that they were rather to loose their b S. Ambros epist 32. S. Hier. contra Luciferian liues then to denie them that those who did oppugne them were c Nullo modo fieri potest vt qâ—i diuinis aâ—dent contradicere sacramentis aliqua nobis communioâ—e socientur S. Epist 78. Patâ—facieÌ„tes in omnibus probantes non esse omnino inter Catholicos computandos qui definitiones venerabilis Synodi Nicenae vel sancti ChalcedoneÌ„sis Concilij regulas noÌ„ sequuntur Ibidem not Catholikes but d S. August de Haeres nu 69. S. Basil epist. 78. S. Athanas epist ad Epict. Vincent Lyri c. 41. heretikes And the Councels themselues did e Conc Nice Ephesin c. anathematize all that reiected or dissented from them Now by these anathematismes and excommunications by the deepe censure and branding with the note of Heresie by the deniall of the name of Catholike to such as did stubbornelie contradict oecumenicall definitions by the knowne custome of the Pastors in all ages and cases of greatest difficultie when soeuer they could with safetie meete in Councell to define sub anathemate and to oblige all to conformitie without further dispute or doubt they being the men whom our Sauiour hath giuen to teach his people and establish theÌ„ in the truth by the generall obedience of the Symbolicall or vniuersall Church in all times to the Pastors so teaching manifested in their acceptation of such Decrees and conformable profession of the faith by the esteeme which holie Fathers had of Councells whereof in Saint Augustine I gaue an instance in the case of S. Cyprian and by the Apostles practice in regard and contemplation of the promise together with their reall interpretation of it the meaning of those words The Spirit of truth shall teach you all truth and He gaue Pastors and Doctors that wee be not wauering or borne about with euerie winde of doctrine is so discouered and the tradition of assistance and direction afforded to Councels oecumenicall in their decrees of faith so confirmed that a weaker sight then yours may discerne it You may further call to minde that the Councels wherein the Controuersies betwixt the Protestants and vs are defined be receaued by the whole Church and by it vniuersallie approued Wherefore had any of those you name told you that an oecumenicall Councell might mistake and erre the decrees of faith made in these Councels as in that of Trent for example had still beene according to their iudgment notwithstanding to be admitted because the Vniuersall Church hath receaued and approued them And you opposing them do oppose not a Councell onlie but the Catholike and Vniuersall Church and the Spirit in her the Spirit of truth remaining in and with her to teach her all truth That this is the Catholike Church and not yours nor the whole companie of such as professe themselues Christians as it includes both the Orthodox and Hereticks you see proued and defended f Disp of the Church elswere If your Spirit be disposed to contradict it bring your Catalogue of men that held your Articles all men purelie Orthodox according to the new straine without any defect or superstruction whose tenents intirelie be * The Vniuersalitie of the Church and the long Communion of the Graecians and other Nations with it is demonstrated at large by C. Baronius in his Annals and briefelie in the Disputation of the Church pag. 145. 146. 147. 148. By the Church thus Vniuersall in her flourishing time the Nestorian and Eutychean Heresies which made against the fundamentall articles of Christianitie and the coÌ„mon Creede were you know coÌ„demned and such as abbetted theÌ„ were cut of froÌ„ CoÌ„munion lawfullie and oecumenicallie in the Councels of Ephesus and Chalcedon Wherefore in the Catalogue which you are to make do not put vnder the titles of Orthodox or Members of the Catholike Communion any Nations or People howeuer great approuing and maintaining either of these Errours Such as were the Nestorians Armenians Iacobites Abassins and Aegyptians or Cophti as appeares by Photius Damascen Euthymius Nicephorus Prateolus Guido Baronius Miraeus Godignus and others Neither can you challeng them as yours when they were re-vnited to the Church and See of Rome as the Grecians Armenians and others were in the Councell of Florence Acta Conc. Flor. in Decreto Eugen. Aemilius Platina Chalcondas Gordonus See also Miraus Not. Episc li. 1. c. 18. but you must finde a time when they neither held with vs nor abbetted either of the foresaid Heresies but were entirelie Protestant or Orthodox in your sence And the Catalogue must represent vnto vs in all Ages some of these so many as may challeng from all other Communities the title of the Catholike and Vniuersall Church If you looke vpon the whole aggregation of Christian Churches that euer were in the world before Luther you shall finde the Societie of beleeuers in Communion with the See of Rome to be without all Controuersie the greatest and most Vniuersall And that Arians Nestorians Iacobites Armenians and others going out of it to subsist by themselues neuer could arriue any of them to that Vniuersalitie Where you will finde or feigne your ProtestaÌ„t more Vniuersall Congregation or of what kind of men or what fantoms rather it doth consist wee shall know when your descriptioÌ„ of the Spaces Imaginarie comes out in print What is to be obserued in the drawing of your Catalogue hath beene partlie told you in the Disp lib. 1. c. 1. 2. 3. 4. currant there and iustified by you their children and this continuallie euer since the Apostles daies with Pastors lawfullie ordained Proue that yours was and that ours was not the Church which hath celebrated Councels condemned Heresies conuerted Nations c. Meane while and euer for this taske will be neuer donne wee do securelie subscribe to the Decrees of Councels oecumenicall approued and receaued generallie by that CoÌ„munitie out of which your Father Luther went and do not doubt at all to imbosome our selues in that Church which by SuccessioÌ„s of Bishops froÌ„ the See Apostolike hath euen to the acknowledgment and confession of mankind obtained the top of Authoritie Hereticks in vaine barking round about and condemned partlie by the iudgment of the very multitude or common people partlie by the grauitie of Councels and partlie by the maiestie of miracles To which Church not to giue the prize it is verilie either extreame impietie or foole-hardie presumption