auouch that he is lodged in Hell For we are not alwayes acquainted with what sufficiency of meanes he was furnished for instruction we do not penetrate his capacity to vnderstand his Catechist we haue no reuelation what light might haue cleered his errours or Contrition retracted his sinnes in the last moment before death Here our Maintayner requires sufficient meanes of instruction that a man be bound to belieue but he sayth not as you make him say that this instruction must conuince his conscience that his owne Religion is false and the Roman true If a Protestant be thus farre instructed as to perceaue that the Roman Religion is by the full consent of former Christian ages and by the definition of Generall Councels deliuered as the doctrine of Christ Iesus and his Apostles if I say any Protestant be thus farre instructed he is so sufficiently instructed that if he refuse to belieue he is certainly damned Do not you professe that to forsake any Church without necessary causes is as much as a mans saluation is worth Doth not D. Potter auouch that it is not lawfull to goe against the definition of Generall Councels without euident reasons Wherefore Protestants that haue abandoned the Roman Church are by your principles conuinced to be in a damnable state if they know the Roman Religion to be the Christian tradition of their Ancestours the definition of Catholique Councels Nor is it necessary that they be conuinced in conscience that the Roman Religion is true it sufficeth they haue no conuictiue demonstrations against it Wherefore it is extreme want of conscience in you to say that our Maintayner and the most rigide Aduersaries of Protestancy affirme that no Protestant shall be damned for any errour whatsoeuer he holdes against the Roman Church except he be conuicted in conscience that his owne Religion is false and the Roman true 11. And yet not content to haue brought this falshood as a Corollary from his wordes you make it his formal saying and set it downe in a distinct Character as his verball and formall assertion Pag. 31. n. 4. lin 6. Charity mistaken affirmed vniuersally and without any limitation that Protestants that dye in the beliefe of their Religion without particular repentance cannot be saued But this presumption of his you qualify by SAYING that this sentence cannot be pronounced truly and therefore not charitably neyther of those Protestants that want meanes sufficient to conuince them of the truth of your Religion and falshood of their owne nor of those who though they haue neglected the meanes they might haue had dyed with Contrition that is with a sorrow for all their sinnes proceeding from the loue of God Thus you shewing the Adamantinall hardnes of your Socinian for head and Samosatenian conscience For this long sentence which you set downe charactered as the saying of Charity Maintayned with a direct affirmation that it is his saying is forged and feigned by your selfe from the first to the last syllable thereof not only against his meaning in that place but also the whole drift of his Treatise For what is the drift thereof but only to shew that the Roman is the true Church and that her proposing of a doctrine to be belieued is sufficient to bind men to belieue it without any other Conuiction besides the authority of her infallible word 12. Also the second assertion you impute to him That nothing hinders but that a Protestant dying a Protestant may dye with contrition for all his sinnes is an impudent vntruth no such acknowledgment in all his book You seeke to gather it from these wordes We haue no reuelation what light may haue cleered his errours or Contrition haue retracted his sinnes This reason say you or contrition haue retracted his sinnes being distinct from the former and deuided from it by the disiunctiue particle or insinuates that though no light did cleere the errours of a dying Protestant yet Contrition might for ought you know retract his sinnes This is a fond voluntary inference for the clause or contrition retracted his sinnes was not added to signify that a Protestant may haue contrition of all his sinnes though his vnderstanding be not cleered from his errours but to declare that though his vnderstanding be cleered from errours yet this will not suffice that he be saued except after the abiuration of his errours he do further conceaue hearty sorow Contrition for the deadly and damnable sinnes of affection and action he may haue committed 13. For that a Protestant cannot be truly penitēt of all his sinnes vntill his vnderstanding be cleered or at least his zeale allayed that he become remisse in his Religion and doubtfull this reason doth inuincibly conclude It is impossible that a man should repent of a thinge at that time when he is in actual or habitual heat of affection vnto it But Protestants so long as they are Protestants and their Vnderstandings not cleered from their errours or their zeale allayed with cold doubtfulnes are alwayes either actually or habitually in the heat of condemning the Roman Church for Impieties and Idolatries in the heat of presumptuous Pride whereby they preferre their seely conceits about the sense of Scripture before the iudgement of the Church and her Generall Councels Ergo it is impossible that a Protestant persisting stiffely in his Religion should be penitent of all his sinnes knowne and vnknowne The third Conuiction IN this Conuiction I am to proue three things first that Roman Catholiques hold all fundamētall truth and so are secure from damnation Secondly that it is madnesse to persuade any man to leaue the Roman Church Thirdly that it is impossible that Protestants should be sure they belieue all Fundamentall truths That Roman Catholiques are free from all Fundamentall Errours and your Contradictions herein §. 1. 1. HE that belieues all Fundamentals cannot be damned for any errour in fayth though he belieue more or lesse to be Fundamentall then is so This is your formall assertion in so many wordes pag. 207. n. 34. which supposed I assume But Roman Catholiques belieue all Fundamentals that is all necessary truth Ergo they cannot be damned for any errour in fayth The assumption of this argument might be proued by many testimonies from your Booke I will insist vpon two the one in this Section the other in the next Pag. 16. lin 8. We grant the Roman Church was a part of the whole Church And if she were a true part of the Church she retayned those truths which were simply necessary to saluation For this is precisely necessary to constitute any man or Church a member of the Church Catholique In our sense therefore of the word Fundamentall we hope she erred not fundamentally Thus you who pag. 280. n. 95. say the playne contrary that our errours are fundamentall And pag. 289. nu 86. that our Church not onely might but also did fall into substantiall errours 2. I know that to salue
Alfarache his saying that the Fooles Hospital is of large extent to be most true He can range and reuell within the compasse thereof in a world of sottish extrauagances from hoat to cold from snow to fire from Oxford to London from London to Toledo from Toledo backe againe to King and Country and then fetch a new carriere ouer the whole Vniuerse and euery part thereof to be sure that no part is greater then the whole What is impertinentcy what is deserting the matter and argument in hand if this be not Good Syr be pleased to vnderstand that the Controuersy betwixt D. Potter and our Maintayner is not about all Kind of propositions nor whether snow be blacke or fire cold nor about your not being Arch-Bishop of Canterbury nor about the way from your Hall to your Chamber but about propositions pertayning to Christian faith not euident to sense but only to be knowne by reuelation from heauen Our Maintayner auoucheth that these Diuine truths cannot be knowne assuredly but by the teaching of Gods Church infallible in all her proposals This he proueth not as you feigne by this principle He that may possibly erre can neuer be sure he doth not erre but by this He that may erre and hath some times erred by following some certaine Rule can neuer be sure he doth not erre by following the same rule If a Iudge condemne a man to death wrongfully vpon euidence giuen against him by two witnesses how can he be sure that he doth not condemne another man vniustly if he haue no greater assurance then the deposition of two witnesses not knowne to be of better credit conscience A traueller hath been misguided out of his way by inquiring of the first man he met trusting his direction how can he be sure he is not out of his way by crediting the word of another directour equally vnknowne vnto him This then is the Argument of Charity Maintayned which you durst not encounter but ran about the world in the wild-goose chase to auoyd the force thereof No man can be sure he doth not erre by following a rule which is fallible and deceitfull But to iudge of the sense of the Scripture by the sole seeming euidence of the text is a rule fallible which often fayleth and deceaueth them who rely thereon because many places are not taken in their plain proper literall sense and many texts considered by themselues seeme cleere and plaine which conferred with other texts that seeme to say the contrary become darke and obscure Therefore to discerne the true sense and meaning of Scripture by the sole seeming euidence of some text thereof is a rule fallible Protestāts by the sole direction therof can neuer be sure or infallibly certain about any mystery of faith 10. And I pray you good Sir leaue your wild vagaries come home to the litle closet of your wits hold them close to the matter and then tell vs A Protestant who denyes the wordes of Christ This is my Body to be true in their plain proper and literall sense how can he be sure himselfe or how can he assure others that this text The word was made flesh is to be taken and true in the plain proper and literal sense Do not tell vs that you know the way from your Hall to your chamber that snow is white fyre hoat M. Knot is not Arch-Bishop of Toledo but giue vs an assured rule whereby to know that this text The word was made flesh is literally to be vnderstood in the plain substantial sense the text This is my body ought to be figuratiuely interpreted so that the Body of Christ be taken for but a peece of Bread The meane while I conclude that Protestants seing they haue not any infallible rule to assure them of the sense of Scripture cannot firmely belieue the Mysteries reuealed therein and so they haue not such a persuasion of the truth of Gods word as is worthy of God and pleasing to him nor will they euer obtayne sauing fayth till they ioyne with Roman Catholiques to acknowledge the infallible authority of the visible Catholike Church The seauenth Conuiction BEcause you cannot damne Roman Catholiques for any want of necessary and fundamentall truth you endeauour to procure their damnation and plead earnestly for it in regard they do not endeauour to know all profitable truth In which discourse you prodigiously contradict other assertions of your Booke By the discouery of which damnation will be seene to fall a way from vs vpon your owne head togeather with the cause meritorious thereof the not caring to auoyd vnfundamentall heresies 1. First you contradict your selfe in the same sentence wherby you make your Way plaine and yet impossible to be gone Pag. 221 lin 19. This is a way so plaine as fooles cannot except they will erre from it Because not knowing absolutely all truth nay not all profitable truth not being free from errour but endeuoring to know the truth and obey it and to be free from errour is by this Way made the onely condition of Saluation It is strange you should say that fooles cannot erre from your Way vnlesse they will whereas your selfe being so wise a man haue erred so mightily from your Way no doubt against your will as you are gone a contrary way In the first part of your saying you pronounce your Way to be so plaine as fooles except they will cannot misse of being saued therein but in the second you require so much and so hard conditions of Saluation as you make the same wholy impossible for fooles and ignorant persons and morally impossible euen to the learned'st leaders of your flocke For you require to Saluation that men know not onely all necessary truth but also that they endeauour to know all profitable truth yea absolutely all truth For by vertue of your speach they are bound to endeauour for the knowledge of that truth which in this sentence you say they are not bound to know But the truth you say in this sentence they are not bound to know is not all necessary truth but all profitable truth yea absolutely all truth Ergo your followers are bound as they will be saued though not to know yet to labour endeauour study to know all profitable truth yea absolutely all truth about Diuine matters Which is as much as to say that none can be saued in your way but such as haue studied Diuinity and haue not omitted so much as one question thereof not only about profitable points of that Science but also about vnnecessary and vnprofitable quirks absolutely all What can be imagined more vaine fond and absurd then to bind all men as they will be saued to study and endeauour for the knowledg of all Diuinity and Diuine truth And yet such is your desire to damne vs as you will do it vpon any condition though your selfe and all other Protetestants be damned in our company 2. Secondly you grossely
Saluation is worth to looke most carefully that the cause of his separation be iust and necessary And pag. 200. lin 25. I willingly confesse the iudgment of a Councell though not infallible yet is so far directiue and obliging that without apparent reason of the contrary it may be sinne to reiect it at least not to afford it an outward submission But D. Potter more cleerly and fully affirmeth That Generall Councels are the highest Tribunals which the Church hath vpon earth that their authority is immediatly deriued delegated from Christ that no Christian is exempted from their censures and iurisdiction that their decrees bind all persons to externall obedience and may not be questioned but vpon euident reasons That the belieuers of the Roman Church cannot erre but through Ignorance inuincible §. 2. 3. FOr the title of this Section I argue thus Those errours are vnauoydable and inuincible which cannot be auoyded without damnable sinne But Roman Catholiques cannot auoyd the errous of the Roman Church if she haue any without damnable sinne Therfore their errours if they do erre must of necessity be ignorances inuincible and vnauoydable such as they cannot shake of without damning themselues The Minor or assumption of this argument I proue because Roman Catholiques that be sincere and cordiall belieuers of the doctrine of the Roman Church cannot haue necessary forcing reasons nor euident demonstrations that the Roman Church is in errour This is cleere For if they haue necessary and inforcing reasons and euident demonstrations whereby they are conuicted in conscience that the Roman Church erreth they be now no more Roman Catholiques nor belieuers of the Roman Church but Protestants and her Aduersaries in their iudgment It is therefore impossible that Roman Catholiques so longe as they be sincere and Cordiall belieuers of the Roman Doctrine should haue euident demonstrations that the Roman Church erreth And if the◠haue not euident demonstrations it were damnable for them to forsake her doctrines which Protestants account erroneous nor can they do it without damning their soules Who then doth not see that their erring if they erre is enforced vn auoydable proceeding from ignorance inuincible for which sort of ignorance it is impossible they should be damned 4. You to auoyde the force of this Argument contend that though your reasons are necessary enforcing as cleere as the light at noone yet we are not conuicted by them in conscience not that they want euidence but that we are obstinately peruerse This your shift cauill is easily shewed to be friuolous and false Friuolous because you only say without any proofe that we are obstinately peruerse and if to say it without proofe be inough then the same answere will serue and doth de facto serue euery Heretique euery Sect-maister euery forger of new Monsters for when he findeth himselfe in straytes and not able to bring so much as a probable reason for his new deuised impieties he falleth presently to cry that his Texts of Scripture are as cleere as the sunne his Arguments euident demonstrations that the reason Catholiques neglect and reiect him is not want of euidence in his arguing but that we are wilfully blind obstinately peruerse men that haue eyes to see and will not see giuen ouer to stronge delusions and vnto a reprobate sense And what is this but to change schollership into scolding reasoning into rayling disputing into clamorous and contumelious wrangling wherin he getteth the victory who is the stoufest Stentor and can crye loudest against his Aduersaries You are willfully blind you are obstinately peruerse In which kind of arguing you are very eloquent according to the stile of heretiques quorum doctrina sayth S. Hierome non in sensu sed in multiloquio elamore consistit 5. Secondly it is false because necessary and enforcing reasons or euident demonstrations presented vnto the vnderstanding necessitate the said Vnderstanding and compell the Conscience to assent let the Will be neuer so peruerse The peruersity of Will may make a man deny with his mouth what in Conscience he knoweth to be true it may make him hate impugne knowne truth but it cannot possibly make him not see what by the light of euident demonstration is made cleere to his vnderstanding This I proue by your owne sayings as pag. 370. n. 50. Apparent arguments necessitate the vnderstanding to assent and Pag. 371. n. 81. You contend that Protestants hold not that it is euidently certaine that these bookes in particular are the word of God For say you they are not eyther so fond as to be ignorant nor so vaine as to pretend that all men do assent to it which they would if they were euidently certain or so ridiculous as to imagine that an Indian that had neuer heard of Christ or Christianity reading the Bible in his owne language would without miracle belieue it to be the word of God which yet he could NOT CHOOSE but do if it were euidently certaine Heere you affirme that all men in the world would belieue the Christian Bible to be the word of God yea they could not choose but assent vnto it as vnto Diuine truth if it did shew it selfe to be such with euident certainty And yet there be millions in the world that be obstinately peruerse against the Christian Bible Ergo demonstrations which shew a truth to the vnderstanding with euident certainty necessitate the Vnderstanding to assent though the Will be obstinately peruerse But Catholiques though they vnderstand ponder and consider your pretended euident demonstrations and texts of Scripture as cleere as the sunne can dissent from them rest persuaded in their conscience against your conclusions by pious constancy of fayth Wherefore your Arguments be not euident demonstrations and consequently no man can be moued with them to forsake the Roman Church and her Doctrine of Generall Councels without committing damnable sinne yea they are so farre from being irresistable as they are vaine weake contemptible euen those which you pretend to be so cleere as none can possibly be cleerer as I haue shewed in the former Treatise Cap. 6. Conuict 6. n. 29. That Protestants if they erre cannot be saued by ignorance or generall repentance §. 3. 6. THe first part of the Title that they cannot be saued by ignorance I proue thus Either Protestants haue demonstrations euident certainty that the Roman Church erreth that her definitions which they forsake and keep themselues in opposition against them be false and impious or they haue not If they haue they be not ignorant but full of cleere and manifest certainty about all those points wherein they forsake the Roman Church If they haue not they are indeed in ignorance but in such ignorance as will not saue them but rather make them more damnable to wit in the ignorance of Pride For is it not damnable and execrable Pride for a simple and ignorant man to abandon the Roman Church adorned with
consequently of the Doctrines contained therein only as an opinion very probable as is hereafter shewed Ergo you question the holy Scripture the Religion and Gospell of Christ you make an if of the truth and certainty thereof You examine it doubtingly with liberty of iudgment prepared in mind to leaue it if perchance you find the grounds thereof apparently false What is this but to be a Nullifidian a man setled in no Religion but doubtfull of all Such an one as they were whome the Apostle checketh terming them men still learning but neuer attayning to the assured knowledge of any thinge Againe Pag. 307. n. 107. you write thus speaking vnto our Maintayner Your eleauenth falshood is that our first reformers ought to haue doubted whether their opinions were certaine which is to say they ought to haue doubted of the certainty of Scripture which in formall and expresse termes contaynes many of these opinions From this testimony I conclude that you doubt of the cetainty of the Scripture You professe to examine and question all your Protestant opinions of Diuine matters to make a doubt of the certainty of them But you contend that some of your Protestant opinions of Diuine matters be such as to make a doubt or question of the certainty of them is to doubt of the certainty of formall and expresse Scripture Ergo your Way and practise of doubting of all your opinions about Diuine matters is doubting euen of the truth of the Christian Scripture and Ghospell of Christ A thinge most impious and execrable as you now suppose yet so fond and forgetfull you are as to say you should haue litle hope of Saluation did you not do it or endeauour to do it 6. In fine your safe Way is a Labyrinth of implicatory and inextricable errours Protestants that are concluded therein are lost in a maze of vncertainties and in an intricate mixture of contrary doctrines being sure to find nothing therein but damnation which way so euer they turne themselues Do they doubt of the truth of their Religion which they belieue to be the Ghospell They are both according to truth and in your doctrine damnable wretches as being formall Heretiques Be they so firme in their Religion as they ranke doubting thereof among deadly sinnes Then they are you say obstinately blind sure to fall into the pit of perdition as much as we are at the least you affoard them litle hope of obtayning Saluation The sixt Conuiction 1. THis Conuiction sheweth that only Roman Catholiques haue sauing fayth which is demonstrated by three Arguments The first Sauing fayth is that without which it is impossible to please God Now fayth which pleaseth Gods must be on the one side certaine and infallible otherwise it is not worthy of God to whose word we owe so firme beliefe that if an Angel from heauen should Euangelize against that we haue receaued as his word he were not to be heard but to be accursed On the other side it must be a free and voluntary assent not enforced by the euidence of the thinge For if the reason of belieuing be euident and such as doth necessitate the Vnderstanding to assent the assent is not pleasing to God because it is not voluntary obedience and submission to his word Roman Catholiques by belieuing the Church to be infallible in all her proposals obtaine a persuasion about Diuine mysteries firme and infallible and yet of voluntary obedience and submission But the Opposers of the Roman Church not only want certainty in truth but also know not which way to challenge infallible certainty without euidence 2. This may be proued by what you write Pag. 329. lin 31. The infallible certainty of a thing which though it be in it selfe yet is not made appeare to vs infallibly certaine to my vnderstanding is an impossibility What is this but to say that fayth of a thing cannot be infallibly certaine except the thinge belieued be made so cleere and apparent that the vnderstanding cannot choose but assent vnto it For what appeares to vs to be infallibly certaine is seen of vs to be infallibly certaine What we see to be infallible certaine we cannot choose but assent that it is so So that a firme grounded beliefe of the truth of thinges not appearing without which it is impossible to please God is by your doctrine to Protestants impossible 3. Moreouer that Protestants cannot haue fayth pleasing to God that is fayth infallibly certayne not grounded on euidence I demonstrate in this sort No man can be assured infallibly of the truth of things not seene nor to him euidently certaine but by the word of an Authour infallibly veracious in all his words deliuered vnto him by a witnesse of infallible truth For if the witnesse or messenger of the word be fallible let the Authour of the word be neuer so infallible our assent to the truth of the thing proposed cannot be infallible Now Protestants haue not the word of God by meanes of a witnesse and messinger infallible For the witnesse proposer and messenger of the word of God is the visible Catholique Church which Protestants hold to be fallible full of false Traditions not free so you say from errour in it selfe damnable and in this sense Fundamentall Wherfore it is demonstratiuely certaine that onely Roman Catholiques who belieue the Church to be infallible can haue Fayth worthy of God Fayth of voluntary submission to Gods word that is fayth of things to them not euidently yet infallibly certayne and consequently they only please God by their belieuing and are saued 4. The second Argument You say pag. 148. lin 16. There is no other reason to belieue the Scripture to be true but onely because it is Gods word so that you cannot belieue the doctrines and myestries reuealed in Scripture to be true more firmely and infallibly then you belieue the Scripture to be Gods word for we must be surer of the proofe then of the thing proued thereby otherwise it is no proofe as you say pag. 37â— n. 59. But your assurance that the Scripture is the word of God is onely human probable and so absolutely fallible For you belieue the bookes which were neuer doubted of in the Church to be Gods word and a perfect rule of fayth onely by the tradition or testimonies of the ancient Churches pag. 63. lin 35. But the ioynt tradition of all the Apostolicall Churches with one mouth and one voyce teaching the same doctrine is onely a very probable argument as you affirme pag. 361. n. 40. Ergo your fayth that Scripture is Gods word consequently of all the mysteries therin reuealed is but human and probable and therefore vnworthy of God being not firmer then the credit we yield to euery morall honest man For to vs his word is probable and credible and to you the word of God is no more 5. Protestants commonely pretend that their fayth
that these Bookes be the word of God resteth finally not vpō the credit of human Tradition but vpon the Scripture onely which shewes it selfe with euident certitude to be diuine and supernaturall truth and so reuealed of God Euen as light is seene by its owne brightnesse and hony is proued to be sweet by the very tast thereof But this point of Protestancy you reiect as fond vaine ridiculous pag. 371. n. 51. and proue it to be such Because if the Bookes of Scripture were euidently certayne if they did with euident certitude demonstrate themselues to be Diuine truth then all men that haue vnderstanding and capacity to apprehend the right sense and sentence of Scripture would belieue them to be true which experience sheweth be otherwise If Protestants answere that such as haue their tast distempered to them hony is bitter so Infidels through preiudice and distemper of passions do not perceaue and tast the Diuinity of the Doctrines of the Scripture Against this the reply is ready and conuincing For they who through distemper of their palate iudge hony to be bitter do not apprehend the true tast of hony but a tast contrary to the true tast thereof which being in their palate they conceaue it to be in the meate But Infidels by their vnderstanding do rightly apprehend and conceaue the true senses of Scripture and the mysteries of fayth deliuered therein more cleerely then many Christians of meane capacity do and yet they do not iudge them to be Diuine truth or truth at all Ergo the very true sense and sentence of Scripture doth not with euident certainty shew it selfe to be Supernaturall truth such as could not be reuealed but of God 6. Finally if the Protestants beliefe of Scripture be grounded vpon sight of the truth thereof this their beliefe is not sauing fayth for Fayth by which men are saued as hath beene sayd is that wherby they submit by voluntary obedience their vnderstanding to Gods word belieuing firmely and assuredly vpon the Authority thereof things in themselues incredible and aboue the reach of human reason But Protestants do not belieue the doctrine of Scripture because it is the word of God but because as they say they see it to be Diuine truth and consequētly the word of God Ergo they haue not the fayth of humble submission to Gods word which is the onely fayth that pleaseth God and by which men are saued 7. The third Argument Protestants haue not fayth of infallible adherence that is fayth worthy of God about the sense and interpretation of Scripture For holding the Churches interpretation to be fallible they pretend to be sure by this rule that what they belieue to them seemes plainely cleerely euidently reuealed and proposed in the Scripture But this rule of assurance is not infallible but very fallible and deceytfull For euen Protestants thēselues contend that many texts and places of Scripture which seeme plaine and cleere are to be vnderstood figuratiuely against the plaine proper and literall sense For example the words of our Lord about the chiefe Sacrament mystery of fayth THIS is My Body This is My BLOVD in their plaine proper and literall sense deliuer and establish Transubstantiation as Protestants grant Hence Protestants that are resolued not to belieue a mystery so high aboue reason seemingly repugnant to sense will by no meanes allow these wordes to be true in their proper and literal sense they will not yield to the plain euidence of the Diuine text Whereupon it is euidently consequent that they cannot be sure about any mystery of fayth by vertue of the sole seeming euidence of the sacred Text. For instance take the most fundamental text of Scripture about the most fundamētal mystery of Christian Religion to wit the Incarnation of the Sonne of God The Word was made flesh How doth this text euidently conuince that the Eternal Word and Sonne of God was made Man truely substantially personally What Protestants say of the word of Christ This is my Body why may not Nestorians affirme about this text The Word was made ffesh that it is not true in a proper plaine and literal sense but metaphorically figuratiuely that God and Man were made one in Christ by affectual vnion as two great friendes are said to be one How can Protestants be themselues assured or how can they proue by the sole euidence of the text that this Nestorian interpretation is false And if their beliefe of the mystery of the Incarnation be not solide and firme grounded on a rule of interpretation infallibly certaine how can they be saued 8. Learned and iudicious Readers may find in your booke a world of laughter about your answering the arguments of Charity Maintayned you do it so vnscholler-like so okerly and vntowardly Let your answere to this argument serue for a patterne Our Maintayner vrgeth D. Potter that if the Church may erre in points of fayth not fundamentall you can neuer be sure of any such point For as you erre about some deceyued by the seeming euidence of the Scripture so you cannot be sure you do not erre about other You answere Pag. 117. n. 160. A pretty Sophisme depending vpon this principle that whosoeuer possibly may erre he can neuer be certaine that he doth not erre A Iudge may possibly erre in iudgment can he therefore neuer be sure he hath iudged aright A Traualler may possibly mistake his way must I therefore be doubtfull whether I am in the right way from my Hall to my chamber Or can our London-Carrier haue no certainty in the middle of the day when he is sober and in his wits that he is in the way to London And a litle after nu 161. whereas our Mayntainer argueth that you cannot be sure it is an errour to make the Church Iudge of Controuersies because you pretend to be sure by the seeming euidence of Scripture but this rule is not infallible so you cānot be sure by the warrant thereof The ground of this Sophisme say you is very like the former viz. that we can be certaine of the falshood of no proposition but those only that are damnable errours But I pray good Sir giue me your opinion of these The snow is balcke the fire is cold M. Knot is Arch-Bishop of Toledo the whole is not greater then a part of the whole that twise two make not foure in your opinion good Sir are these damnable heresies Or because they are not so haue we no certainty of the falshood of them I beseech you Sir consider seriously with what strāge captions you haue gone about to delude your King and your Country if you be conuinced they are so giue glory to God and let the world know it by your deserting that Religion which standes vpon such deceytfull foundations This you write which you could neuer haue written had you been with your London Carrier sober and in your wits You haue proued Gusman de
images of Christ crucifyed vsed in the Church with Apostolicall allowance we haue the plaine words of S. Paul Gal. 3.1 O senselesse Galathians who hath be witched you not to obey the Gospel before whose eyes Christ Iesus is painted Crucifyed among you The Greeke word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 liuely set forth in the picture of his Crucifixion so that S. Paul proueth the Galatians were senselesse people that honoring Christ Iesus pictured before their eyes as crucifyed yet did not hope for Saluation by his Crosse and Crucifixion but by Circumcision and the obseruances of the Law This sense being according to the plaine proper and literall sense of the wordes Protestants are bound by the rule of their Religion to admit thereof and cannot without impiety refuse it and expound the place of metaphoricall Painting except they can euidently demonstrate this sense to be false or incongruous against the Apostles intent which they will neuer be able to do 8. If you say that this text at the most proueth the vsing of Images for the representation not honoring of them I answere with the learned M. Montague your Bishop of Chichester that in the vsing of Images for memory sake the honouring of them is necessarily included which he proueth euidently and together affirmes that it is strange that any Christian should be displeased with the Doctrine That respect and honour is to be giuen to Images 9. The Persons of the Trinity we picture not but only the person of Goa the Sonne in the forme and shape of man as personally he was Onely we represent the type wherein God the Father appeared to wit the forme of the Ancient of dayes described Dan. 7. and the type wherein the Holy Ghost appeared the forme of a Doue recorded Math. 3. 10. For Inuocation of Angels we haue the practise and example of holy Iacob Gen. 84.15 The Angell which deliuered me from all euill blesse these Children which text you cannot answere without iugling and changing the Angell into the figure of another substance 11. For the sufficiency of the Sacrament vnder the forme of bread we haue the expresse warrant of our Lord Ioan. 6.59 He that eateth this bread shall liue for euer And for the practise of Communion in one kind for lay men we haue his example Luc. 24.30.31 12. For the adoration of the Sacrament we haue the Scripture in the plaine and proper sense For sayth D. Morton your B. of Durham If the words of Christ be true in a proper and literall sense we must yield vnto Papists the whole cause of Transubstantiation c. the proper adoration of the Sacrament 13. That we prohibite certaine orders of men women to mary is a slander They freely without constraint prohibite themselues whiles by vow they bind their fayth and fidelity vnto Christ to liue single and chast peculiarly consecrated to his seruice Which fayth and fidelity if they violate and make voyd by consequent Mariage as your first reformer the Frier did who married a Nunne we hold their state sacrilegious and damnable which is the expresse doctrine of S. Paul 1. Tim. 5.12 14. The Controuersy which language is fittest and of most edification in Church seruice whether the vulgar which is best knowne in this or that particular country or some learned language Greeke or Latin which be best knowne in the whole Christian Church cannot be determined by Scripture as hath beene already proued So that measuring the way of Saluation euen by the rule of the Bible only the Roman Religion is the plainer and safer Way better warranted euen by expresse texts of Scripture The Ninth Conuiction THe chiefe Fundamental ground of the security Roman Catholiques enioy that they are in the right Way of Saluation according to which if they walke they cannot be damned is the direction of an infallible guide the holy Catholique Church which is no other but the Roman This is conuinced by what your self are forced to grāt as hath been shewed but because this businesse is the maine and the totall I will here repeate some of the passages though very briefly 1. First conuicted by the wordes of S. Paul you grant that the visible Catholique Church is the pillar and ground of truth that is the teacher of all necessary and profittable truth by duty and office yea that she is always in fact the teacher of all truth necessary to Saluation For say you that the true Church alwayes shall be the maintayner and teacher of all necessary truth we grant and must grant For it is of the essence of the Church to be so and any company of men were no more a Church without it then any thing can be a man and not be reasonable Thus you grant that there is and alwayes shall be a Catholique Church which shall not only belieue inwardly and in heart but also teach and a propose without fayle all diuine reuelation necessary to Saluation For it is her very essence to be so Wherefore not only in belieuing but also in teaching and proposing all necessary truth she can no more faile then from her owne being which is indefectible Hence she is and you must grant she is an infallible guide in Fundamentalls Because to shew men the way to heauen by teaching them all reuealed truth that is necessary to bring them thither what is it but to be a guide of men vnto Saluation shewing them the Fundamental doctrines of Christian Religion without which no man is saued 2. Secondly the visible Catholique Church being as you grant she is an infallible teacher or guide in Fundamentalls must of necessity be also infallible in all her proposalls The necessity of this consequence you deny a thousand tymes and almost in euery period of your third Chapter yet you affirme it in expresse termes Pag. 105 n. 139. lin 23. To say that the Church is an infallible guide in Fundamentals were to oblige our selues to find some certain Society of men of whome we might be certain that they neither do nor can erre in Fundamentals nor in declaring what is Fundamental and what is not and consequently to make any Church an infallible guide in Fundamentals would be to make her infallible in all thinges she proposes and requires to be belieued Which truth you proue vnanswerably Pag. 148. n. 36. 3. Thirdly the visible Catholique Church being a guide in Fundamentals that is alwayes a Teacher of all necessary truth is a Church c of one denomination that is some settled certaine Society of Christians knowne and distinguished from other Societies by adhering to such a Bishop This is proued by this Syllogisme wherein both the premises be your owne formall assertions The Church is appointed of God to be the teacher and guide of men in the way of Saluation and so she is able and fit for that office For God would not by his word haue appointed her an office for which she is vnfit and vnable
to perferme it yea you say the Church is not only able to performe the office of guide but also that alwayes in fact she doth exercise the same in teaching all necessary truth But you say pag. 163. lin 9. A Church of one denomination distinguished from all others by adhering to such a Bishop such a determinate Church alone can performe the office of Guide and Directour And Pag. 105. n. 239. lin 30. No Church can possibly be fit to be a guide but only a Church of some certaine denomination as the Greeke the Roman the Ahissine Wherefore the Visible Catholique Church being fit and able to performe the office of Guide and Directour as you grant she is and that it is essentially necessary that she be so she is and of necessity must be a Church of one denomination subiect to one certaine supreme Guide and Bishop 4. From these most certaine truthes by you granted approued and proued it is necessarily and euidently consequent that the Roman Church is the Visible Catholique Church of God an infallible Teacher of all fundamentall and necessary truth yea infallible in all thinges she proposes as matter of fayth This I say is cleerely consequent of the former grants For the visible Church being the Guide Teacher and Directour of men is on the one side a Church of one denomination else she could not performe that office of guide which she doth as you confesse alwayes actually performe On the other side being the Catholique that is the Vniuersall Church she must be spread ouer the face of the earth as the Roman is in Europe Africa Asia America and in many of the particular Kingdomes and Prouinces of these foure quarters of the world So that the wordes of S. Paul to the Romans come to be verified no lesse now then at that time your fayth is renowned and published in the whole world Which vniuersality or vniuersal Vnity agrees to no other Church of one denomination as is manifest Wherefore the Roman Church is the Holy Catholique Church the infallible guide of men in the way of Saluation 5. Hence is concluded the security of Roman Catholiques that they cannot possibly erre about matters of fayth so long as they follow the dogmatical directions and definitions of the Roman Church Contrariwise they who oppose what they know to be proposed by her as matter of fayth erre Heretically damnably and cannot possibly be saued without expresse repentance of their errours The Conclusion 6. THis argument of the assured Saluation of Roman Catholiques and of the assured damnation of all the knowing opposers of their Religion and Church being thus euidently demonstrated for Conclusion I could wish an Ocean of teares of bloud endued with the quality of mollifying hearts as hard as the Adamant for so I might condignely and fruitefully deplore the pittifull state the commiserable condition the vnfortunate thraldome in Errour of many millions in our deare Country caused by mortall auersion from the true Catholique Church which is instilled into their mindes by Heretical education 7. They grant conuicted by the euidence of Gods word that the Catholique Church is the ground and rocke of Truth wheron men may securely rest and rely an infallible Guide and teacher of all Fundamentals consequently of all euen profitable truth about Diuine matters They further acknowledge conuicted by experience and reason that the Church cannot be fit orable to performe the office of guide Directour except it be of one denomination of one obedience subiect to one determinate Bishop as her supreme Pastour and Gouernour They cannot but see with their eyes there is no Church Catholique or vniuersally diffused of one Fayth of one Obedience of one Denomination subiect to one Pastour acknowledged of all of that Religion but the Roman Consequently that there is no Church besides the Roman fit or able to performe the office of Guide and Directour to men that are saued as the true Catholique Church is bound to do and alwayes actually doth These thinges they confesse or see and yet so inflexible is the obstinacy the passion pride against the Roman Church wherwith Education like Medusa's head hath dulled stupifyed and instoned their soules as they contemne her Direction forsakes her Communion hate her Authority scorne her Motherly care of their Saluation running to perdition in the way of their owne fallible and palpably false conceytes fancied to be Scripture 8. Why did our Sauiour make his Church the pillar and ground of truth that is an infallible Teacher of the doctrine of Saluation but that he would haue men to make vse of her teaching As knowing that through a world of errours which carry with them a faire shew of truth they could not attayne to eternal Happinesse without a Visible infallible Guide No doubt when he gaue her the office of Mother he bound vs as we would be his Children and Heyres to loue honour and reuerence Her and to liue alwayes in the lap of her Communion When he gaue her the office of Guide he bound vs to follow her directions as we desire to speed in our iourney to him and to come to see for euer his Blessed face When he gaue her the office of Rocke he obliged vs to build our fayth and hope of Saluation on her Teaching assuring vs that no sublimity of wit vnderstanding no height of perfection be it in our conceite neuer so eleuate can reach to Heauen which is not grounded on the neuer-fayling fortitude of this Rocke 9. They then that haue disioyned themselues from the wombe and lap of this Mother can neuer be so in Gods fauour as to be his Children the Heyres of his glory the fellow heyres with Christ They that follow not the Directions of this euer vn-erring Guide be not in the way towardes him that is Truth and Life but wander in a wildernesse of Errour the issue wherof is eternall Death· They that haue not setled the feete of their Fayth and Affection on this Rocke the sole Rocke of safety in this vast Ocean of dangers what are they but wauing and wauering Babes floating in a sea of vncertainties tossed this way and that way with euery gust of erroneous doctrine 10. For a man not to belieue that our Sauiour did institute his Church to continue for euer the Teacher of all sauing truth the Rocke of Saluation against which the gates of Hell shall neuer preuayle what is this but to stop his eares against the cleer and plaine voyce of his word For a man to say that he gaue the office of Guide to a confused multitude and Chaos of different Religions and Obediences and not to a Church of one denomination which alone is able to performe that office what is it but to open his mouth into blasphemies against his Diuine Wisedome For a man not to see that there is no vniuersally diffused Church in the world of one fayth and obedience all the Professours thereof adhering
so many glorious markes of the true Christian Church to reiect the definition of Generall Councels without any necessary and inforing reasons without any sure ground or euident certainty that they be errours No doubt such an one the more ignorant that he is the more damnable wretch he is and by so much is his pride more detestable Wherfore Protestants if in their vndertaking and venturing to reiect the definition of Councels and the receaued Traditions of so many former Christian ages they chance to erre though but out of simplicity and ignorance this simplicity and ignorance will not excuse and mitigate but rather accuse and aggrauate the crime of their erring presumption and pride 7. This truth that Protestants cannot be saued by ignorance as Roman Catholiques may you seeme to acknowledge pag. 285. lin 7. We assure our selues if our liues be answerable we shall be saued by our knowledge And we hope and I tell you agayne spes est rei incertae nomen that some of you may possibly be saued by occasion of their vnaffected ignorance Behold the way of saluation by Ignorance you leaue vnto vs and in your great excesse of charity hope that some of vs may possibly be saued throgh ignorance But you Protestants are sure to be saued by your knowledge by your euident certainty that the truth standes on your side against the definition of former Christian worlds Now if this be the case of Protestants that they must be saued by their owne knowledge by being sure they haue such euident certainty of truth as may counter poyse the authority of so many Christian ages and Councels how pittifull and lamentable is their case They cannot be saued except they be furnisht with knowledge and euident certainty that they haue truth on their side For if they want this knowledge they cannot prudently nor without execrable Pride oppose Generall Councels which stand for the Roman Doctrines But Protestants at least millions of them are as sure and certayne as they liue that they haue no such knowledge no such euident demonstration or certainty that the Roman Church and Councels erre Therefore they cannot except they be stupide and senselesse but be sure they are in a damnable state and shall certainly be damned except they change their course 8. The second part of this Section that Protestants if they erre cannot be saued from their sinfull damnable errours by general repentance is proued Because Generall Repentance doth extend only to those things wherein the Penitent may lawfully and with a safe conscience apprehend and feare there may be sinne For as you say pag. 20. lin 45. Generall repentance is vniuersall sorow for all their sinnes both which they know they haue committed or which they feare they may haue But Protestants belieue their Religiō against the Church of Rome to be the Gospell to be the word of God to be most infallible Christian truth and so do not feare any fault or sinne in their beliefe yea they cannot with a safe conscience so much as apprehend that their beliefe may be sinfull false or vncertayne For as you say cap. 5. n. 107. this were to doubt of the certainty of the Gospell Ergo the Generall repentance of Protestants neyther doth nor can extend it selfe to recall virtually and implicitely the Doctrine they hold against the Roman Church no more then they repent of the Doctrine they hold against Iewes and Turkes For they hold both these Doctrines as much the one as the other to be the word of God and therefore not to be doubted of much lesse repented as though it might be sinfull errour Moreouer it is not possible that a man should at the same time repent himselfe of a thing and together detest from his heart all repenting thereof But Protestants abhorre detest as impious all doubting and much more all repenting of their Religion as it is opposed against the pretended Superstitions Impieties Idolatries of the Church of Rome for they thinke it holy Scripture Diuine Reuelation as certayne as the Gospell Wherfore it is impossible that Protestants should repent of their opposing the Church of Rome so long as they be Protestants and belieue the doctrine of Protestancy to be the Gospell and the Roman Religion to be full of Impiety and Idolatry There is no hope such Protestants can be saued except God send into their heart the light of his Spirit and make them see their Religion so farre as it is opposite to the Roman to be but a masse of old damned Heresies and moue them to repent and to recall and detest them in particular Your impudent slandering of Charity Maintayned that he granteth Saluation vnto any Protestant that is ignorant or repentant §. 4. 9. YOu are much vexed that the Roman Religion is proclaimed safe euen by her Aduersaries and that yours is wholly destitute of such comfortable testimonies Wherfore the warrant you cannot obtayne by truth and fayre dealing you seeke to get by falshood fraud and forgery euen of our Maintayner to whome you speake in this manner pag. 31. lin 12. That which you do say doth plainely inough affoard vs these Corollaries 1. That whatsoeuer Protestant wanteth capacity or hauing it wanteth sufficient meanes of instruction to conuince his conscience of the falshood of his owne the truth of the Roman Religion by the confession of his most rigide Aduersaries may be saued notwithstanding any errour in his Religion 2. That nothing hinders but that a Protestant dying a Protestant may dye with Contrition for all his sinnes 3. That if he dye with Contrition he may and shall be saued All these acknowledgements we haue from you whiles you are as you say stating but as I conceaue granting the very point in question which was as I haue already proued out of C. M. whether without vncharitablenesse you may pronounce that Protestants dying in their Religion and without particular repentance and dereliction of it cannot possibly be saued 16. Thus without shame you falsify the Tenet of your Aduersary the doctrine of our Church Where doth our Maintayner say that whatsoeuer Protestant notwithstanding any errour Socinians be Protestants in your account because they hold the Bible the Bible and only the Bible who maintayne Christ Iesus not to be the eternall Sonne of God incarnated Where doth our Maintayner affirme that these Protestants may be saued in this so vild errour vpon any condition yea where doth he say of any Protestant that he may be saued in any errour which the maintaynes knowingly against the Roman Religion if he want sufficient meanes of instruction to conuince his conscience of the falshood of his owne and truth of the Roman He hath no such wordes and his wordes from which you pretend to draw this wine of Comfort for Protestants haue not any the least relish of that sense These they are when any man esteemed Protestant leaueth to liue in this world we do not instantly with precipitation
vniuersally to one certayne Bishop besides the Roman what is it but in a desperate moode of neglect to shut his eyes against the truth that may saue his soule the cleere euidence whereof shineth ouer the world So that I may say with the Apostle Quomodo nos effugiemus si tantam neglexerimus salutem How shall we escape from being damned if we neglect so great a meanes such an assured way of Saluation 11. A Way so secure to be followed so obuious to be found so cleere to be seene so facile to be gone so hard to be lost In which we haue the succour of so many Sacraments not onely that of Baptismes to put vs in the Way and giue vs Gods Holy Spirit to walke therein but also that of the Bread of life to refresh vs when we faynt that of Chrisme to confirme vs when we are stronge that of Pennance or imposition of Hands to help vs vp when we are fallen that of Holy Oyle to heale vs when we are sicke 12. A Way beaten made plaine by the precedent walking therein of so many former Christian worlds proued to be the sole Way to Heauen by the writings of so many most holy and learned Ancient Fathers sealed and enobled for such with the sacred bloud of innumerable Martyrs confirmed by the perpetuall and vnto this day continued Conuersion of Nations to the Roman Church by the glorious labours of her Apostolical Preachers 13. Finally a Way printed with the foote-stepps of Sanctity of so many millions of admirable pious and Religions Christians who went this Way to Eternall Happines and haue from thence sent vs tidings of their safe arriuall by the testimony of euident miracles and vndoubted apparitions to assure vs we cannot fayle of comming thither if we walke constantly in the Way of the same fayth they professed and in the exercise of the same Christian Vertues they practised FINIS The contents of the Booke the summe of ech of the Nine Conuictions The first Conuiction THe Confession of Protestants that our Religion is a safe Way to Saluation proued against M. Chillingworths falsifications and ignorant explications of D. Potters words § 1.2.3 That the argument drawne from the confession of Protestants is not voluntary and of meere charity but enforced by the principles of Christianity § 4.5 That M. Chillingworth doth expressely teach the errours of Protestants to be damnable in themselues and the Roman Religion to be as safe as it § 6. The second Conuiction Though the false supposition were granted that the Roman Church erreth yet Roman Catholiques caÌ„not be damned for following her errours because they cannot but be excused by ignorance inuincible § 1.2 That Protestants if they erre as certainty they do cannot be saued by Ignorance or General Repentance § 3. M. Chillingworth his impudent falsifying of the Tenet of Charity Maintayned § 4. The third Conuiction The Roman Church holding all fundamentall and necessary truth no man can possibly be damned in her Communion for any errour in fayth so that it is madnesse to leaue it § 1.2 That Protestants cannot possibly be sure they belieue all necessary truth what impossible conditions of Saluation M. Chillingworth layes vpon them § 3. The fourth Conuiction That in M. Chillingworth his Way English Protestantes can be no more saued then Socinians who deny Christ to be God yea no more then Iewes and Turkes with six proofes that he is a Socinian § 1.2 The fifth Conuiction That M. Chillingworth damneth Roman Catholiques for being faithfull and constant Christians § 1. That in his Way Protestants are bound to be still doubtfull and changing the articles of their Religion and that this is damnable § 2. The sixt Conuiction That only Roman Catholiques can haue fayth which pleaseth God and saueth the Belieuer demonstrated by three arguments The seauenth Conuiction M. Chillingworth his vayne contradictious endeauour to damne the Roman Church because forsooth she doth not care to auoyd Heresies not Fundamental that this is the daÌ„nable state of Protesters against her The eight Conuiction M. Chillingworth his instances in some points wherin he pretendes the way of Protestants to be safer then ours proued to be false suppositions idle brags § 1. The Roman Doctrine and practise euen in those instances proued by plaine texts of Scripture § 2. The Ninth Conuiction That the true Catholique Church is infallible in all her Proposals known by subordination to one supreme Bishop that this church caÌ„ be no other theÌ„ the Roman The Conclusion Faults escaped in the Print PAge Line Errour Correction 6. 20. in marg omitted Lib. 3. cont lit Petil. c. 18. 37. 5. inforing inforcing 52. 7. so farre too farre 63. 21. change change 84. 13. your you 88. 2. impudently impudency (a) DeuÌ„ time mandata eius obserua hoc est enim omnis homo Ecclesiastae c. 12. v. 13. Lib 3. contra lâ—t Petil c. 13. (b) Pag. 279. n. 64. (c) Pag. 397. n 18. (d) SaxuÌ„ versat neque proficit hiluÌ„ (e) Pag. 400. n. 28. Cap. 7. n. 2â— (f) Cap. 5. n. 58. lin 8. (g) Cap. 5. n. 26. lin 17. (h) Pag. 404. lin 20. Cap. 7. n. 29. (i) Pag. 76. lin 26. (k) Cap. 5. n. 105. lin 23. (l) Pag. 278 lin 8. cap. 5. n. 61. (m) Cap. 7. n. 29. initio Pag. 77. (n) Pag. 395. l. 3. If this did appeare to persuade any man to continue a Protestant were to persuade him to continue a Foole. (o) Pag. 226. n. 63. (p) Pag. 116. n. 158. in fine (q) Cap. 4. n. 63. lin 22. Excesse of charity may make him ceÌ„sure your errours more fauorably theÌ„ he should do (a) Defence against the reply of Cartwright pag. 47. (r) Cap. 7. n. 26. lin 30. (s) Cap. 6. n. 64. lin 8. (t) Preface n. 11. lin 17. How is it possible any thing should be plainer forbidden then the worship of Angels c. pag. 181. n. 86. Places of scripture against our errours as cleere as the light at noone (u) Cap. 5. n. 86. (k) Praefat de abroganda Missa prinatâ Quoties palpitauit mihi tremulum cor reprehendens obiecit illud fortissimum argumentum Tu solus sapis tot ne erraÌ„t vniuersi Tanta saecula ignorauerunt (l) Pag. 397. n. 17. Answere to the Preface n. 26. in fine (z) Cap. 5. n. 91. lin 19. Cap. 5. n. 87. Cap. 5. n. 58. lin 18. (a) 1. Edit pag. 19. lin 9. (b) Pag. 279. n. 64. lin 8. cap. 5. n. 64. lin 8. (c) Cap. 5. n. 53. (d) Cap. 3. n. 18. infine (e) D. Potter pag. 166. (f) See pag. 380. n. 72. cap. 6. n. 72. (g) In cap. 22. Jsaiae (h) Cap. 6. n. 50. (i) Cap. 6. n. 81. (k) This is auerred also by M. Hooker Eccles Pol. Preface pag. 29. lin 26. An argument necessary and demonstratiue being proposed to ANY MAN vnderstood the mind cannot choose but inwardly assent 2. Edit pag. 20.
pardonable by Gods great mercy From the number of all Protestants whose Religion you defend to be a safe Way I hope Socinians or new Samosatenians are not excluded These hold that Christ Iesus is not the Eternall only begotten Sonne of God yea that he was and is a meere man though an holy man and a great Prophet Will you say that this errour which conceaues no more diuinely of Christ then do the very Turkes is not greater then any we maintayne not more fundamental and essentially destructiue of Saluation If you do most Protestants in England will thinke you worthy of the Fagot 22. Fourthly Pag. 290. num 87. you write that Protestants seing they be not free from errours that it is hardely possible but they must be guilty of extreme impiety In that place you endeauour to answere our Argument that it was great imprudency in Protestants to forsake the whole visible Catholique Church for errours not fundamentall seing they confesse that in their separation against her they could not be sure of not falling into errours of the like quality and note yea into greater to wit fundamental You are in this point eager and protest that Protestants are so farre from acknowledging that they haue no hope to auoyd this mischiefe of erring at the least vn-fundamentally that they proclaime to all the world that it is most prone and easy to do so to all those that feare God and loue the truth and hardely possible for them to do otherwise without supine negligence and extreme impiety Ponder I pray you this place and conferre it with other passadges of your booke you will see that you make all Protestants extremely impious For it is most prone and easy for Protestants that feare God and loue the truth to auoyd all errours specially such as need pardon and be damnable in themselues so that it is hardely possible for them to be in any errour without supine negligence and extreme impiety Now there are not any Protestants in the world no not English Protestants by name whome you dare defend to be free from errours not fundamentall and millions of them as you confesse are by the sinne of their will betrayed into and kept in errours damnable in themselues Ergo it is hardly possible but all Protestants must be guilty of supine negligence and extreme impiety about matters of Fayth Which being so how is that Religion a safe way of Saluation in which hardly any be saued yea how be not their errours vnpardonable seing you write Pag 275. lin 15. that God is infinitely iust and therefore it is to be feared will not pardon Catholiques who might easely haue come to the knowledge of the truth but through negligence would not How then will he pardon Protestants to whome it was you say most prone and easy to haue come to the knowledge of the truth and to haue auoyded all errours but would not through supine negligence and extreme impiety 23. I haue been the larger in declaring and strenghthening this Argument and shewing the insuperable force therof First because it is the Argument most vrged by the pithy and learned Catholique Treatise of Charity mistaken as also by Charity maintayned both which bookes by the cleering of this point are shewed to remayne vnanswered Secondly because this Argument from the confession of our Aduersaries as it is cleere manifest and conuincing so it is within the reach and capacity of euery one For who so stupide voyd of sense as not to see that Religion to be the safer which is confessed to be safe euen in her Aduersaries iudgment grounded vpon the neuer fayling principles of Christian Charity wisdome and truth The Second Conuiction THough we should grant that most vntrue and impossible supposition that the Roman Church erreth yet it would be impossible that Catholiks should be damned for following her errours The reason is because their erring cannot but be excused by ignorance inuincible wheras Protestantes if they erre damnably as without doubt they do neither by shelter of Ignorance nor of Generall Repentance can they be saued Three Suppositions §. 1. 1. TO proue this we must suppose three thinges which are knowne and notorious truths First that Christians who belieue in Christ the eternall Sonne of God and Sauiour of the world cannot be damned for any errours of ignorance inuincible or for any inuoluntary erring This truth you often affirme in some passages of your booke and deny it as often in other Pag. 19. lin 27. you say That if in me alone were a confluence of all such errours of all Protestantes in the world that were thus qualified with ignorance inuincible I should not be so much afrayd of them all as I should be to aske pardon for them c. To aske pardon of simple and purely inuoluntary errours is tacitely to imply that God is angry with vs for them and that were to impute to him the strange tyranny of requiring bricke when he giues no straw of expecting to gather where he strewed not to reape where he sowed not of being offended with vs for not doing what he knowes we cannot do Heare you make it a kind of blasphemy to say that involuntary errours are pardonable or need pardon because the very saying they were pardonable importes they need pardon and consequently that God is offended with vs for them Notwithstanding that errours purely inuoluntary or of inuincible ignorance be pardonable and need pardon from Gods great mercy you frequently professe speaking of our errours Pag. 308. lin 41. We hold your errours damnable in themselues yet by accident through ignorance inuincible we hope they were not vnpardonable Pag. 291. lin 4. Your erring was we hope pardonable in them that had no meanes to know their errours Pag. 263. lin 27. Your errours were in themselues damnable yet we hope that those amongst you that were inuincibly ignorant of the truth might by Gods great mercy haue their errours pardoned and their soules saued This is your wauering and tottering manner of discoursing but the truth is God is not offended with errours of ignorance inuincible because God is offended only for sinne wheras inuoluntary erring cannot be sinne because to be voluntary is of the nature and difinition of Sinne. 2. Secondly we suppose that the Roman doctrines which Protestants accuse to be errours are definitions of Generals Councells and were for many ages the publike receiued doctrine in the whole visible Christian Church for which reason you say That euen the visible Church is not free from damnable errours Thirdly we suppose that it is vnlawfull and damnable for any man to depart from the Roman Church to forsake her doctrine or to oppose the definition of a Generall Councell except he haue apparent and euident reasons which demonstrate that the truth stādeth on his side This you teach pag. 272. n. 53. It concernes euery man that separates from any Churches Communion euen as much as his