to assign the Holy Scriptures To which A. P. reply'd that there were c two things incumbent on the Doctor to prove 1. That the Books which he called the Scripture were truly such 2. That when so prov'd they were of themselves a sufficient Rule But to the second Point nothing was said To the first the Doctor replied that their Bible had been handed down from the Apostles A. P. desired to know by what Hands The Doctor answered by the Testimony of d all the World Turks Jews Gentiles and Christians But A. P. urging to know from what immediate Hands the Church of England had received them when she began to reform The Doctor answered From the Universal Church and that he meant by Universal Church all those e different Bodies who make up the whole Number of Christians Then A. P. demanded Whether those different Bodies of Christians made one true Church or no Or whether some one Part of them were so The Doctor tho much press'd would specify no Part which he acknowledged free from Corruption Upon that A. P. desired to know how the Doctor could make out that his Bible was the pure and uncorrupt Word of God if all those from whose Testimony he took it were corrupted and consequently false Witnesses and what Assurance he had f the sense of Holy Scripture being as he said depraved the Letter remained pure Here g a pleasant School-Master diverted the Auditory with a Picture as he said of the Blessed Trinity and offer'd it A. P. with wry Mouths and Antick Gestures But A. P. saying he saw no Reason why God appearing to Daniel under the Figure of an old Man might not be so painted provided one meant not to delineate him specie propriâ He return'd to the Doctor and press'd his forementioned Argument but the Schoolmaster continuing to give Diversion to the People and throw in impertinent Questions A. P. desired him to be silent saying he came not to dispute with a Buffoon but a Doctor which was ill taken Dr. T. read a Lesson of Charity upon that occasion endeavouring to prove that A. P. had violated the Holy-day And when Mr. M. said in A. P's Defence that h S. Paul had used as sharp Language in a like occasion The Doctor replied that if A. P. was St. Paul he might so do When the Doctor had done his i Harangue A. P. returned to his Argument and much importun'd the Doctor to make out how he was assured his Bible was the pure Word of God and not as full of Corruption and Falshood as he believed those to be from whom he received it Here the Doctor call'd k Mr. M. from the Window whither A. P. had desired him to retire that no Body might argue against the Doctor but himself and instead of answering the Difficulty began a private Parly with Mr. M. And l A. P. could never obtain any thing like a Satisfactory Answer to his Difficulty propos'd In the end he answer'd the calling the Authority of Scripture in question disposed to Atheism A. P. reply'd he believed it might in their Principle who having taken all Infallibility from the Church could assert none for the Scripture This Debate lasted upwards of 2 Hours when the Doctor threw in several By-questions about St. Peter's being at Rome m which when A. P. was ready to prove n the Doctor passed to the Real Presence and Transubstantion A. P. demanded of the Doctor whom he would be judg'd by not being able at this time to obtain any Answer to the first and chief Query The Doctor replied by the Universal Church A. P. demanded whether by the Universal Church now in being or by that which had been in the four first Centuries The Doctor said that of the four first Centuries A. P. asking how we should know the Judgment of those Times The Doctor answered by the Testimony of the Fathers then living Then A. P. naming several and proffering to begin with which the Doctor pleased o he desired to hear St. Ambrose A. P. thereupon read one out of his 4th Book de Sacramentis which the Doctor noted down and required A. P. to put his Hand to it which he refus'd for the present but said as soon as he had produced his whole Evidence he would then sign it But the Doctor plainly refused to hear any more saying that the rest would prove like that which he believed to be of a Spurious Author To which A. P. replied that if he doubted of that Work he would cite another of the same Author 's to the very same Intent of an unquestionable Work. But the Doctor refused absolutely to hear it And continued to press A. P. to subscribe He answered that he would when all his Witnesses were heard and with much ado after about 3 quarters of an hour after twenty endeavours he obliged the Doctor to hear of Justinus his Apology to Antoninus Pius p but that the Doctor would not note down or hear one word more which seeming unreasonable to Mr. M. he asked the Doctor using his own Instance whether or no if one should come to pay him a q a Sum of Mony and the first piece might appear somewhat dubious he would refuse the rest upon that account especially if the Party was content to change it in the very place Now this Paper it is which has made all the great Noise as though the Doctor having summ'd up the whole Discourse A. P. should refuse to sign what he had asserted In this Debate the Parties rising up the Doctor was pleased to say that r the Papists were by their Principles Breakers of their Word and proved against A. P. thus You believe yours to be the only saving Church but you are bound to save all you can therefore you are bound to break your Word given in your Paper of Rules of your Schools of not tampering with your Scholars in Matters of Religion A. P. replied that it was a very injurious Assertion and prov'd no more against him than his Majesty which he thus proved His Majesty believes his to be the only Saving Church but his Majesty being Head of his People is bound to endeavour to save them as much as A. P. to save his Scholars therefore according to the Doctor 's Argument his Majesty is bound to break his Word given to his People of not forcing their Consciences This Reflection was ill taken and A. P. said he was willing to believe the Doctor spake it not with any such Intention but added that it was ill done to vent such Propositions whence naturally and unavoidably ensued so bad Illations Then A. P. answered directly that no body was bound always to do all the good possible And that to teach gratis Learning with the Fear of God was very well done although one medled not with Religion and defied the Doctor to bring the Scholar where note that the Boy on whose account the Dispute was held was no Scholar that ever heard him touch a
his first onset was very vigorous D. T. answered at first to this purpose That Mr. P. might send for that Book which he owned to be his Bible and out of that he would dispute with him or if that were too great a trouble he would borrow an English Bible in the house which was afterwards fetch'd and discourse out of that and endeavour to vindicate the Translation where it should be by Mr. P. excepted against This Method Mr. P. would not allow but repeated his discourse about our not having a Bible and our not being able if we had one to prove we had one and ask'd again about the Rule of our Faith. D. T. before he answered to this applied himself to Mr. M. who seem'd to be the calmer person and of a temper inclining to Piety and put him in mind that such discourses as these and some others lately used by the Romanists about the Trinity and Transubstantiation would rather make the people Atheists or Unbelievers than Converts and that the indifferent were ready to say Content We cannot believe Transubstantiation and we will have no Trinity we cannot have the Bible unless we take it upon Roman Authority and none we will have Mr. M. said That would not be the consequence but gave no reason why he said so Then D. T. turned to Mr. P. and told him that he began at a point of which the Boy had not said a tittle to him in the Closet or to his Master the first and chief thing said by him being that about Luther's Works and Sacraments and his Colloquy with the Devil Mr. P. at first denied that he had shown such a Book to the Boy and the Boy began at first to shuffle about the Story but afterwards own'd it his Master attesting it and upbraiding him with lying in that and other things Mr. P. then salv'd the matter by saying he did not show him the Book in Publick D. T. then replied Is not a thing shown because it is not shown in a Market this is the fruit of the ill art of Equivocation Mr. P. proceeded to talk about Luther and the Devil and his leaving Mass at the Devils instance this discourse of Mr. P's had very good effect upon the other servants in the house as they confessed to their Mistress they now perceiving that to be the Jesuits talk which the Boy had fathered upon the Doctor To Mr. P's discourse about Luther D. T. answered on this manner That our Church depended not upon Luther but Christ That Luther some grains of allowance being given to him as we ought to every man was an excellent instrument of God's That he ought to have read if he had not done so the Book lately published at Oxford Entituled The Spirit of Martin Luther That if Luther had said any where there were Three Sacraments he had said no more than Paschasius Radbertus who was the Inventer of Transubstantâ—ation That admitting the Story Luther after the Monkish way had put his Spiritual Conflict into the form of a Colloquy and that he might well suspect a device in the Devil when he disswaded him from the Mass for the Devil might think the Piety of Luther would be apt to move him for that reason to go the rather to Mass because the Devil had forbidden him D. T. added that one of the first disswasives from the Mass which made impression upon Luther was this He had been at Rome and said Mass there and heard it said and he took notice of the profaneness of the Mass-Priests and he over-heard the very Courtizans jeeringly saying that some who Consecrated had used these Words Bread thou art Bread thou shalt be Wine thou art Wine thou shalt be Mr. P. asked D. T. where he had this Story D. T. answered where he might have it in Luthers Life D. T. would have gone on and given Mr. P. a Story out of their second Synod of Nice for his story about Luther's Colloquy with the Devil but Mr. P. would not accept of an old Tale for a new one and tho D. T. began his Story at the request of the people five or six times Mr. P. would not suffer him to proceed out-noising him in such manner that D. T. ask'd him if he had the Art of curing the deaf The Story which was afterwards told to the people in the back room was this Abbot Theodore reported before the Fathers of that Council which decreed the Worship of Images how the Devil appeared to an Old Man who asked him why he had troubled him so long with temptations to uncleanness the Devil swore him to secresie and then said Adore this Image no more I will give you no further trouble the Image was that of the Blessed Virgin with the Holy Jesus in her Arms The old man revealed this to Abbot Theodore who said he should not have sworn to the Devil yet notwithstanding 't was better for him not to dismiss his Courtezan than to forbear to worship Christ and his Mother in an Image The Abbot continued and comforted the old man and sent him away the Devil appeared again and upbraided him with perjury the old man answered What I have sworn I have sworn c. The Good Fathers excused the breach of his Oath and went on to applaud the practice of Image-worship Mr. P. not suffering D. T. scarce so much as to begin this story joined with Mr. Meredith in asking what was the Rule of Fairh and where we had our Bible And as to the latter Mr. P. ask'd with great quickness who gave us the Copies how where when and the like Insomuch that D. T. told him he was doing the office of a Catechist rather than a Disputer However D. T. answered thus First The Rule of Faith is the Holy Bible the sum of it in necessary Doctrines is the Apostolical Creed Mr. P. said we had other Negative Articles No Purgatory c. D. T. replied they were Guards of our Creed but not properly Articles and that as Protestations against Them they were not very Ancient because their Errors were not all from the beginning and that we could not pull up the weeds before they were grown up Secondly That if they had any good proof of the Bible we had it too and that the first external inducement for the receiving of the Bible as written by such and such persons and as such a Book was not so much the Authority as the Testimony of the Universal Church of all Ages all agreeing in it and amongst others the Roman excepting the Apochryphal Books of later time raised by them into a level with the primary Canon whilst we have the same Canon the Ancient Church owned in the Council of Laodicea D. T. added That the Protestants took in the Testimony of Heathens as of Julian the Apostate who against himself owned three of the Evangelists and the Jews who had once the Oracles of God committed to them and from whom the
U. and Mrs. U. declared by themselves and the rather upon their taking notice of certain Arts of Lying not so much before observed by them she own'd that the aforesaid Stories were us'd by a Roman as Arguments to turn her I believe there might be false Stories to the prejudice of Mr. P. and his Friends but to the end that false Reports may not on either hand prevail this Account is written by D. T. which Mr. P. wheresoever he thinks it is faulty may please to correct Tho. Tenison A Pursuit of that which was said in the Conference about the three first Quotations viz. out of S. Ambrose de Sacramentis S. Cyril of Hierusalem in his Catechism and Justin Martyr in his Apology c. 1. FOR the Book de Sacramentis as not genuine it may suffice at present to say That though there was a Book written by S. Ambrose under that Title this is not it there not being found in this the Places which S. Austin cited out of that That the style is plainly more moderen and rude than that of S. Ambrose and his Age That the version of the places of Scripture mention'd in this Book is not the same with that which S. Ambrose uses in his genuine Works That this Book is taken notice of by the Writers of the 8th and 9th Age the time of the introducing of the Corporeal Presence The very eminent Cardinal Bona whose credit is greater than that of Alexander Natalis do's own all this the last words excepted Haec Ambrosius si tamen ipse horum librorum qui de Sacramentis inscribuntur Auctor est Testatur quidem Augustinus scripsisse Ambrosium libros de Sacramentis sive de Philosophia adverfus l'latonem quorum meminit lib. 2. Retract cap. 4. doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 28. eosque peâ—iit sibi mitti à S. Paulino Ep. 34. sed illi vel perierunt vel alicubi latent longè diversi sunt ab his qui nunc extant ut patet ex sententiis quas ex illis citat idem August lib. 2. primi operis adversus Julianum cap. 5. tribus sequentibus De his verò quos hodiè habemus fecit primò ut dubitarem styli diversitas cùm enim opera Ambrosii ante aliquot annos haud perfunctoriè percurrerem 〈◊〉 ad hoc pervent visus sum mihi alterius lingue hominem ab Ambrosio prorsus diversum loquentem audire Tum animadverti loca scripturae in his citata non esse ejus versionis quâ in aliis libris Ambrosius uti consuevit Quaedam etiam in his reperi quae seculo Ambrosii minùs convenire visa sunt Nihilominùs à Scriptoribus octavi nani seculi laudantur saepiùs tanquam Ambrosii legitimus foetus quorum auctoritati cedens eos deinceps sub ejus nomine cujus est possessio semper cit abo It is true he says at the end of his Discourse that notwithstanding his Reasons before alledged he yields to the Authority of the Writers of the 8th and 9th Age and that seeing they are in possession he will henceforth cite this Book under the name of S. Ambrose But considering the Time and the Doctrine then preparing for the papal stamp who wants the fagacity of understanding to what purpose this Book was forg'd and then brought forth as out of its antient mouldiness And for the humility of the Cardinal's deference to such late Authority against his solid reasons and judgment all know what that means in the Roman Communion where Writers after knowing that they have said things against the genius of that Church do in the end submit all at her feet So did Des-Cartes whose principles are utterly inconsistent with Transubstantiation So did Molinos the Father of the numberless off-spring of the present Quietists For this is the Conclusion of his first amply licensed and then rigidly condemned Guida spirituale Il tutto sottoponga humilimente prostrato alla Correttione della Santa Chiesa Catolica Romana After all this I do allow that Mr. P. was the less to be blamed in this Quotation considered as a Romanist because he cited it out of his Breviary and believ'd as his Church believed Of this spurious S. Ambrose and of the doctrine of the Eucharist in the true S. Ambrose I will say more when more is required I will add only at this time these two things First The Author cited out of the Breviary suppose him S. Ambrose is inconsistent with himself if Transubstantiation be an Article of his Faith. For he saith in another place non iste panis est qui vadit in Corpus sed ille panis vitae aeternae qui animae nostrae Substantiam fulcit That is it is not that Bread which goes into the Body but the Bread of Life eternal which sustains the substance of the Soul. Now what a Judge has Mr. P. chosen toward the deciding of a Controversie in which he is not reconcil'd to himself Secondly This Author in all probability has been further tamper'd with for he would scarce have said that in the Breviary seeing he own'd the Canon of the Mass in his time to run otherwise than now it does in the Roman Missal and to assert that the Elements were the Figure of Christ's Body Sècondly For the Testimony of S. Cyril it was not that cited thus in the Speculum S. Cyril Alexandrinus c. For Mr. P. spake of S. Cyril of Jerusalem and tho' he did not produce the words yet he said they were those in his fourth Mystagogical Catechism I say now as I then did That the place was long ago fully answered The place of S. Cyril is by a Romanist M. W. thus rendered Tho' you see it to be Bread yet believe it is the Flesh and the Blood of the Lord Jesus Doubt it not since he had said This is my Body And for a proof instances Christ's changing Water into Wine The Answer is this and it is a true one We acknowledge that the words of S. Cyril of Jerusalem were truly cited but for clearing of them we shall neither alledge any thing to the lessening the Authority of that Father tho' we find but a slender Character given of him by Epiphanius and others Nor shall we say any thing to lessen the Authority of these Catechisms tho' much might be said But it is plain S. Cyril's design in these Catechisms was only to possess his Neophytes with a just and deep sense of these holy Symbols But even in his fourth Catechism he bids them not to consider it as meer Bread and Wine for it is the Body and Blood of Christ. By which it appears he thought it was Bread still tho' not meer Bread. And he gives elsewhere a very formal account in what sense he thought it Christ's Body and Blood which he also insinuates in his Fourth Catechism for in his first Mystical Catechism when he exhorts his young Christians to avoid
kept my Word of sending my first Copy to you and have not sent abroad one single Line but after your Receipt of this seeing you have begun on this manner I will let the World know the whole Truth so far as my Memory with all due helps will serve me and from Truth I would not willingly swerve a Tittle For the Story of my going to the Savoy to ask your Pardon it is made very common though I do not charge you with it and if you be curious about Places and Persons I will name some of them to you I never said I came to give you a second Challenge Nor did I come to beg of you to forbear your talking of this Matter in your Pulpit but to Expostulate with you about the unfitness of that way and to understand whether you would keep to the Method you agreed on at the end of our rambling Talk rather than Conference and to tell you that in my Judgment it was most becoming The Jesuit your Witness did not differ from me in this Opinion nor Doctor Claget who was mine I did purpose as I told you to send something to you about your Account but having perused it I perceived you might by comparing it with mine see what you omitted what you mistook and what as to me it seems you sometimes added I will therefore save you the trouble of my Notes upon your Narrative though perhaps in due time I may help others who may not carry my Account in their Heads with such Animadversions I believe in this as you do that it may be fit to Print the whole for the quieting of People who are as yet in suspence and seeing you put me in Mind of it I resolve by that way to ease my self of the trouble of transcribing Copies You have my Letters and I yours and your Account and with this I send you mine together with a pursuit of my Discourse about your three first Quotations Do with them what you please and write what you please further and I will take the like freedom My Stationer which I did but just now know of is at Oxford so that I must elsewhere apply my self but this I promise you that as soon as I send any thing to the Press I will give charge to the Printer to conveigh to you by way of due notice the first Sheet that shall be wrought off All things on my part shall be fair and I am not your Enemy unless which God forbid you will account me so for telling the Truth but can still very heratily Subscribe my self SIR Your Friend as far as oblig'd by the Gospel of our Blessed Saviour Tho. Tenison Mr. Pulton 's PAPER sent in his first Letter with Dr. Tenison 's Animadversions upon it Mr. Pulton's Paper AS the concern I had that the Truth might appear to a Soul that was in search of it made me willing to enter on a Discourse of that Subject with you so I humbly beg that nothing but Charity and a true Sense of Zeal may appear in what may happen to be writt by either of us not to the Scandal but to the Edification of all such as may peruse our Papers You having therefore been pleas'd in our late Conference to assign the Holy Scriptures for the Rule of Faith I desired of you the Favour to know what assurance you had that the Volumes you call Holy Scripture are the undoubted Word of God and this having been the main Point of our four hours Discourse I humbly crave a more clear and positive Answer then I could then obtain You were pleas'd to say the Bible had been handed down to you from the Apostles Then I desired the Favour to know who they were that had so handed it down to you you replied the Universal Church Whereupon I demanded what you meant by the Universal Church You answered That you mean't all those several Bodies who make up the number of Christians Then I farther pressed to know whether all these made up one true Church or no. You said there was something true in each of them but would assign none void of great corruption Upon which I replied That the Volumes which wholy relied on corrupted Authority could have no assurance of being the pure true and certain Word of God. And here we stuck near 2 hours I never being able to obtain a satisfactory Answer I humbly therefore crave to be satisfied 10. Whither receiving the Scripture from the Universal Church you have received a Canon common to all distinct Bodies of Christians If not that you farther explicate what you mean by taking the Scripture from the Universal Church 20. How the Universal Church consisting in Members disagreing in Faith can give you a true and certain Rule of Faith. 30. If when you begann you pretended Reformation there was any Church in being which had that precise Canon you have now and explicated it as you do If so be pleas'd to assign where it was and how you took your Scripture from it As for what related to Transubstantiation and Real Presence it having been a Question thrown in by the by I desire it may be remitted to the second place and having cleared the present difficultie where the stresse of the Discourse lay we will then pass to particular Controversies if you please Dr. Tenison 's short Notes upon this PAPER 1. IT calls the Boy a Soul who was in search after Truth whilst at the same time Mr. P. was satisfy'd that the Boy had never acquainted his Father his Master his Minister with his Doubts till after he had been at Mass and was by his Master and Mistress accused of having been guilty of unsufferable lying and neglect of Business and of the growth of both since he had had Conversation with a Romish Apprentice and Mr. P. and others of that way It is not a thing to be easily credited that a Soul that is in sincere and diligent search after Truth of Doctrine should at the same time become more sinful than formerly in the invention of Lyes and more sowre in Nature and more faithless in the duty of his Calling 2 Mr. P calls the Rule of Faith and the proving the Holy Bible to be that Rule the main Point Whereas it was indeed the Point he desir'd to begin with but it was not that which the Boy had mention'd but the inconsistence of Luther about the Sacraments and his pretended Colloquie with the Devil which therefore was in true order to be begun with But in this there is too much Art for the People may be amused by talk about the Copies of the Bible and the Tradition of them and carried into the dark and so be led the more easily by those who with the greatest Confidence call themselves Guides seeing they are not themselves Masters of critical History but they are more capable of more particular Points as Ex. gr of the Communion in one kind which the People can find
to be contrary to the Bible and therefore that which is tenderest they are not so willing to touch in popular Conferences It is enough if they can get them to the Authority of their Church and then the obedient Child swallows whatsoever the Mother gives it 3. It is said no particular Answer was given it will be found otherwise in the account of the Conference But if a sufficient Sum be tendered and Mr. P. be out of humour to receive it he ought not to complain that he cannot have his Debt paid him If Dr. T. had said less certainly it had not been out of unreadiness to answer seeing in that matter he was prepared he having publish'd a Tract about the Rule of Faith of which a second Edition came forth but a while ago and no Answer has been yet made to it whether out of contempt of the imperfections of it or for other Reasons he cannot tell And here seeing Self-defence is not vanity he takes occasion to make mention of another Tract scribbled by him against the Romish Author of the Protestants Plea for a Socinian at the latter end of which Mr. Meredith's Question about being judg'd by another or going on our own head is answer'd tho not so fully as by another Pen and to be perpetually answering Questions answered already is a Task which a person of good breeding will not impose till the Answer first given is refuted by him It is true there was one who cited a few lines of the latter Tract who if he had cited a few more had spoil'd his design of Misrepresentation His words are these If you have seen the Answer to the Protestants Plea for a Socinian you 'l find there Pag. 26. he points it out for the mark of a Right Socinian to make Reason the Rule of the Scriptures Such a one says he makes Reason the Rule of the Rule He goes no farther for that which follows shews the Author to have spoken of their Reasonings not of Reason it self which if any Man allows them in their own Doctrines he in effect does yeild them the Cause That which there follows is this Though he the Right Socinian thinks a Doctrine is plain in Scripture yet if he believes it to be against HIS REASON He assents not to it And P. 27. A Man of this Church of England suspects not Reason it self but his own present Art of Reasoning whensoever it concludes against that which he reads and reads without doubting of the Sense of the Words If the Representer can come no nigher the Likeness he may if he please lay down his Pencil D. T. owns that this is a Digression but he judged it better seeing there was no more needed to write a Paragraph in defence of himself against a publick unjust Cavil than to trouble the World with a whole Book 4. Whereas it is said that by the Universal Church Dr. T. said he meant the several Bodies who make up the Number of Christians which Mr. P. afterwards calls distinct Bodies Dr. T. did not use that Phrase For his Words were remarkable enough that he meant by the Universal Church what he called it every Lords Day before Sermon the Congregation of Christian People dispersed throughout the World. And he added that he took in the Testimony of Jews and Heathens and might believe Men sincere when they spake against themselves and that he also took in the Roman Church in the better Ages and honest Men in it who in the corrupter Ages gave Testimony against its Corruptions as they arose And he always inserted this Caution that he took this Testimony from such Universal Consent with Considerations of the Persons as agreeing Witnesses and not from their Authority 5. There is Craft in putting in the words distinct Bodies as if the Being of a Church could not be continued and the Corruptions of it opposed and relinquish'd without going forth to some other Body of Men free from all such Corruptions Mr. P. may please to answer Dr. T. in this Point about the Church of the Literal Israel besides which there was then no other Church and enlighten him by the Resolution of this Query whether there may be a Reformation in a Church without leaving of it The Learned Dr. Jackson said it long ago That our Church was in the Romish Church before Luther's Time and yet in it neither as a visible Church altogether distinct from it nor as any native Member of it To his Arguments and Explications at present I refer Mr. P. tho there are others of other kinds of equal weight and clearness For the rest the aforesaid Account of the Conference will shew how far this Paper of Mr. Pulton's is true and whether it contains a fair Proposal when it offers in Exchange for the Contents of it that which is really thinner Stuff and much shorter Measure The Account written by Mr. Pulton A True Account of a Conference had about Religion between Dr. T. and A. P. on the 29th of September 1687 in Long-Acre London Dr. T 's Note MR. P. scattered Copies of this Account and Dr. T. saw three of them on Monday October the 10th Dr. T. and Mr. P. spent their time very ill if so lame an Account as this of a four-Hours Conference be a true one How far it is from the whole Truth has been already shewn in Dr. T 's fuller and more impartial Relation And it is so ill repeated that Mr. P. having by so doing made it his own may take the whole to himself For Dr. T 's part he will not be his Stirrop to be let down and taken up at his Pleasure That which is against him is omitted by him and that which he thinks is for him is added tho never spoken Mr. Pulton's Account ON Monday there came a Youth to A. P. who desir'd to know if he was willing to accept of a Conference with D. H. concerning Religion He answer'd that he was But on Tuesday it was told him Dr. T. would be the Person he must meet at 3 in the Afternoon on Thursday Accordingly the Parties met on the said Thursday being Michaelmas Day A. P. came with one Witness no Priest Dr. T. alone And when the Doctor excepted against the Gentleman A. P. was willing he should retire and pitch'd upon another who casually came in at the same time tho not so much as known by name to A. P. If the Doctor would have no Witness present then A. P. desir'd all might depart except the young Man upon whose account they met the Room being now full The Doctor not assenting to that a A. P. press'd much that whatsoever should be said on either side might be writ down but this not being accepted of the Subject of the Conference was proposed by A. P. who desir'd the Doctor to give the young Man b a Rule of Faith which might keep him in the Church of England After some Preambles the Doctor was pleas'd
that Dr. T. knows of with relation to the Contents of it But they laid some weight upon one's writing signing and the other 's refusing Dr. T. had no great value for it for he left it on the Table But it may be it became the more famous for having been put by Mr. P. into his Pocket out of which after much shuffling about it not knowing where to find it he was prevailed with to pull it by the importunity of an ingenious Woman Thus far the Account reach'd which was written with Mr. P's own Hand But in other Copies it was added at the End that Mr. P. desired to meet where Books were and to have a Scrivener If he did he was not in danger of losing what he long'd for For it was more than once when Historical Things were talk'd of that Dr. T. desired that Coaches might be call'd for and that they might go where Books might be consulted And when Offers by Dr. T. were made about a Bible about Beda Aeneas Sylvius Hoveden and others they were refused Dr. T. is certain that the Author of the Speculum if he has been by Books has not been in them But to what purpose is it to go into Libraries when they have already furnish'd the World in the Speculum with Authorities enough and it may purchase them for Six-Pence The Copy of a Letter written by a Romanist and conveyed by the Apprentice of in L. A. to J. S. in order to his transcribing it and sending iâ— to his Father into the Country Most Dear and Honoured Father NOthing could be more sensible to me than your extraordinary Affection you were pleased to shew in your last and was there any thing less than an Eternity at stake and the saving or losing my Immortal Soul I should have all the repentance in the World of disobliging you Dear Father take therefore a sum of those Motives which oblige me in Conscience to betake my self to the Church I am now resolv'd to embrace The Roman-Catholick Church is allow'd to have been once the true Church built upon the Rock against which our Saviour promised Hell should never prevail whence unless we will give our Saviour the Lye she is still so The Church I am inform'd had power during the four first Centuries to summon and precide in General Councils when any Debate arose concerning Religion and they were reputed Hereticks who obeyed not her Decision Now the same Reason and Authority which proves her to have had that power then proves she must retain it still Again I have heard clearly made out that those or that Church are all of one Faith in all Countries Whereas our Reform'd Churches all clash among themselves and divide and subdivide without end and it can't be otherwise they having no assured Guide upon which they can rely It is the Catholick-Church alone which is taught in all Countries and none but the Pastors of that Church have any Zeal to go among Barbarous and Idolatrous People to convert them and if there be any Faith in History God has seconded their Labours with manifest Miracles Power over Devils and the like And I have never heard of any who can assume that to themselves beside them Again I am inform'd that among them abundance of Noble and Rich People follow the Evangelical Counsels and leave all for God's sake and that they built and founded all those Monuments of Devotion and Churches we see now extant Whereas our Reform'd Religions have only serv'd to pull them down And as I have lastly understood was founded on the Leachery of King Harry the 8th the Ambition of the Tutor of King Edward the 6th and Violence of Queen Elizabeth and only preserv'd by the Rigors of Penal Laws and spilling the Blood of those who for a thousand Years had profess'd the Catholick Faith. All these things I have heard proved with so much shew of Truth that I should resist the Holy Ghost if I obey'd not the Inspiration I have to become a Roman Catholick Dr. Tenison has discours'd before me four Hours but I am more confirm'd than I was before Dear Father Let not the force of Education and Prejudice so by as your Judgment as to be angry with me for the best thing I ever have done in my Life and if you had heard as much as I I am sure you would have that Sense of your Soul as to do as I do All the Stories of their Selling Pardons of their Idolatry and bloody Principles are nothing but meer Calumnies I humbly therefore crave that I may notwithstanding my present Resolution still be esteem'd as I am with all Submission Dear Father Your most Obedient and Affectionate Son. Dr. T 's Notes on this Letter THE Original of this Letter was sent to Dr. T. together with this Account of it After J. S. had copied it and it was seen where he had laid it and was taken from thence Mr. V. asked J. S. whether he had finished his Letter and from what Copy he had taken it He answered from no Copy he urg'd him thrice and he still denied it At last Mr. V. brought forth the Original and shew'd it to him c. then he was silent instead of begging Pardon of God and his Master The Author of the Letter fail'd in his own Art of Cunning for he endeavoured to write an accurate Letter for a Boy who is not able to write one correct Line as is plain by that which may be seen in his former Letter to his Father He should not have perfumed his Paper if he would not have had the Protestants to smell him out 1. He begins the first Motive by saying and by taking that for granted which no Protestant will yield to him that the Roman Catholick Church is allowed to have been once THE True Church This first Motive is a Fallacy of The Church for A Church The Roman was once A true Church but never The Church and a true Church may fail in Process of Time as some of the seven Churches of the Lesser Asia did and St. Paul caution'd the Romans themselves against immoderate Confidence lest They as well as the obstinate Israclites should be cut off 2. The second Motive is taken from the Power of the Church to summon Councils and to preside in them This is the same Fallacy again of the Power of The Church in General and of the particular Church of Rome whose Popes were sometimes condemned by Councils which the Emperors summon'd It is absurd to say that the Church presides over the Council and they who presided had Priority by it for that season but not further Power Mr. Pulton's or Mr. Ward 's Speculum shews Sylvester as presiding at the first Council of Nice but when he recollects himself and finds he should have represented Hosius instead of Sylvester for he was not as is pretended his Legat he will I suppose not be so liberal of Power to the President of a Council