not_o only_o affirm_v the_o modern_a church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v too_o like_a to_o paganism_n in_o the_o adoration_n of_o image_n but_o condemn_v the_o pray_n to_o angel_n as_o the_o idolatry_n condemn_v by_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n as_o dr._n st._n show_v from_o his_o m_n s._n note_n upon_o bellarmine_n to_o these_o dr._n st._n add_v in_o his_o general_n preface_n the_o testimony_n of_o archbishop_n bancroft_n bishop_n montague_n pet._n heylin_n and_o mr._n thorndike_n which_o three_o last_n be_v the_o very_a person_n t._n g._n do_v appeal_n to_o and_o the_o last_o of_o they_o do_v declare_v that_o the_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n be_v such_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o no_o good_a christian_n dare_v trust_v his_o soul_n in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o which_o be_v all_o one_o as_o to_o say_v they_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v they_o only_o reprove_v some_o practice_n as_o idolatrous_a or_o at_o least_o in_o danger_n to_o be_v such_o but_o dr._n st._n acknowledge_v that_o they_o excuse_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o idolatry_n although_o not_o all_o who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o p._n d._n do_v he_o indeed_o say_v so_o or_o be_v this_o another_o piece_n of_o t._n g.'s_n fineness_n his_o word_n be_v these_o and_o although_o it_o may_v be_v only_o a_o excess_n of_o charity_n in_o some_o few_o learned_a person_n to_o excuse_v that_o church_n from_o idolatry_n although_o not_o all_o who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o and_o then_o produce_v the_o seventeen_o testimony_n to_o show_v he_o do_v not_o differ_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o the_o eminent_a defender_n of_o it_o ever_o since_o the_o reformation_n and_o do_v you_o think_v that_o among_o his_o testimony_n he_o will_v produce_v any_o who_o he_o think_v to_o free_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o idolatry_n no_o certain_o but_o i_o suppose_v that_o clause_n refer_v to_o mr._n thorndike_n and_o some_o few_o other_o and_o as_o to_o mr._n thorndike_n he_o afterward_o produce_v the_o passage_n before_o mention_v out_o of_o some_o paper_n write_v by_o he_o a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n what_o say_v t._n g._n to_o that_o r._n p._n not_o a_o word_n more_o but_o i_o find_v he_o make_v use_v of_o mr._n thorndikes_n name_n on_o all_o occasion_n as_o if_o he_o favour_v our_o side_n against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o dr._n st._n and_o the_o man_n who_o manage_v the_o dialogue_n against_o he_o be_v bring_v in_o as_o one_o of_o mr._n thorndikes_n principle_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o be_v not_o he_o a_o man_n in_o his_o heart_n of_o our_o church_n and_o only_o live_v in_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o you_o p._n d._n d._n st._n have_v give_v a_o just_a character_n of_o he_o when_o he_o call_v he_o a_o man_n of_o excellent_a learning_n and_o great_a piety_n and_o since_o so_o ill_a use_n be_v make_v of_o his_o name_n in_o these_o dispute_n and_o such_o dishonour_n do_v to_o his_o memory_n i_o shall_v but_o do_v he_o right_o to_o let_v you_o understand_v what_o his_o judgement_n be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o he_o deliver_v in_o a_o paper_n to_o a_o lady_n a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n from_o who_o it_o come_v immediate_o to_o my_o hand_n and_o be_v the_o same_o paper_n dr._n st._n do_v refer_v to_o 1._o the_o truth_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n and_o of_o the_o scripture_n be_v presuppose_v to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o it_o 2._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n maintain_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o present_a church_n to_o be_v infallible_a which_o be_v false_a and_o yet_o concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v it_o therefore_o no_o man_n can_v submit_v to_o the_o authority_n of_o it_o 3._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o s._n jeroms_n time_n do_v not_o make_v void_a the_o baptism_n of_o those_o sect_n which_o do_v not_o baptise_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n but_o that_o baptism_n be_v void_a and_o true_a baptism_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o matter_n of_o salvation_n 4._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o schism_n follow_v the_o wrong_a cause_n if_o you_o except_v only_a thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o be_v believe_v this_o show_v that_o infallibility_n only_o in_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v not_o enough_o it_o be_v destructive_a to_o salvation_n to_o follow_v the_o wrong_a cause_n in_o schism_n instance_n the_o schism_n with_o the_o greek_a church_n for_o appeal_n to_o rome_n for_o there_o be_v evident_a tradition_n to_o the_o contrary_n 5._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v apocryphal_a scripture_n to_o be_v esteem_v canonical_a scripture_n but_o this_o injunction_n be_v contrary_a to_o tradition_n and_o truth_n and_o concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o receive_v it_o 6._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o s._n jeroms_n time_n do_v not_o receive_v the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n for_o canonical_a scripture_n as_o now_o it_o do_v and_o as_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o declare_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n 7._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v err_v in_o teach_v that_o attrition_n be_v turn_v into_o contrition_n by_o submit_v to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n but_o this_o error_n be_v destructive_a to_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v it_o therefore_o it_o may_v err_v in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n that_o it_o be_v a_o error_n because_o of_o the_o condition_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n which_o be_v before_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v depend_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n 8._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n and_o to_o profess_v that_o which_o be_v false_a for_o there_o be_v scripture_n and_o tradition_n for_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o transubstantiation_n viz._n for_o abolish_n the_o element_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v it_o therefore_o it_o enjoin_v to_o believe_v that_o for_o which_o there_o be_v neither_o tradition_n nor_o scripture_n witness_v the_o father_n that_o own_o the_o element_n after_o consecration_n 9_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n enjoin_v to_o believe_v that_o christ_n institute_v a_o new_a passeover_n to_o be_v sacrifice_v as_o well_o as_o represent_v commemorate_a and_o offer_v in_o the_o eucharist_n the_o sacrific_a missae_fw-la cap._n 1._o which_o be_v false_a for_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n cross_n be_v commemorate_a represent_v and_o offer_v as_o ready_a to_o be_v slay_v in_o and_o by_o the_o eucharist_n but_o not_o slay_v and_o therefore_o not_o sacrifice_v in_o it_o and_o by_o celebrate_v it_o and_o therefore_o when_o it_o be_v say_v there_o c._n 11._o quod_fw-la in_o missa_fw-la christus_fw-la incruentè_fw-fr immolatur_fw-la if_o it_o be_v mean_v proper_o it_o be_v a_o contradiction_n for_o that_o which_o have_v blood_n be_v not_o sacrifice_v but_o by_o shed_v the_o blood_n of_o it_o if_o figurative_o it_o signify_v no_o more_o than_o that_o which_o i_o have_v say_v that_o it_o be_v represent_v commemorate_a and_o offer_v as_o slay_v and_o therefore_o all_o part_n agree_v to_o this_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v more_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o schism_n that_o come_v by_o refuse_v it_o for_o the_o propitiation_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v the_o propitiation_n of_o christ_n cross_n purchase_v for_o they_o that_o be_v qualify_v 10._o the_o council_n of_o trent_n commend_v the_o mass_n without_o the_o communion_n cap._n 6._o wherein_o it_o err_v for_o the_o communion_n be_v the_o restore_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o baptism_n after_o sin_n the_o want_n of_o it_o without_o the_o desire_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v lament_v not_o commend_v as_o destructive_a of_o the_o mean_n of_o salvation_n 11._o there_o be_v neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o pray_v to_o saint_n depart_v or_o any_o evidence_n that_o they_o hear_v our_o prayer_n therefore_o it_o evidence_n a_o carnal_a hope_n that_o god_n will_v abate_v of_o the_o covenant_n of_o our_o baptism_n which_o be_v the_o condition_n of_o our_o salvation_n for_o their_o sake_n 12._o to_o pray_v to_o they_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o only_a god_n can_v give_v as_o all_o papist_n do_v be_v by_o the_o proper_a sense_n of_o their_o word_n downright_a idolatry_n if_o they_o say_v their_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o figure_n only_o to_o desire_v they_o to_o procure_v their_o request_n of_o god_n how_o dare_v any_o
we_o shall_v come_v to_o that_o in_o time_n at_o present_a i_o pray_v clear_a this_o matter_n if_o you_o can_v p._n d._n to_o what_o purpose_n be_v all_o this_o rake_n and_o scrape_v and_o search_v and_o quote_v of_o passage_n not_o at_o all_o to_o the_o point_n of_o idolatry_n r._n p._n what!_o will_v you_o have_v a_o man_n do_v nothing_o to_o fill_v up_o a_o book_n and_o make_v it_o carry_v something_o of_o the_o port_n of_o a_o answer_n especial_o to_o a_o thick_a book_n of_o between_o 800_o and_o 900_o page_n p._n d._n if_o this_o be_v your_o design_n go_v on_o but_o i_o will_v make_v my_o answer_n as_o short_a as_o i_o can_v for_o methinks_v t._n g._n seem_v to_o have_v lose_v that_o spirit_n and_o briskness_n he_o have_v before_o for_o than_o he_o talk_v like_o a_o man_n that_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o keep_v close_o to_o the_o point_n but_o now_o he_o flag_n and_o draw_v heavy_o on_o for_o he_o repeat_v what_o he_o have_v say_v before_o for_o some_o page_n and_o then_o quote_v out_o of_o dr._n st.'s_n other_o book_n for_o several_a page_n more_o and_o at_o last_o it_o come_v to_o no_o more_o than_o this_o dr._n st._n do_v in_o some_o place_n of_o his_o write_n seem_v to_o favour_v the_o dissenter_n i_o be_o quite_o tire_v with_o this_o impertinency_n yet_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v a_o end_n of_o these_o thing_n that_o we_o may_v come_v close_o to_o the_o business_n of_o idolatry_n which_o i_o long_o to_o be_v at_o r._n p._n your_o stomach_n be_v too_o sharp_a set_v we_o must_v blunt_v it_o a_o little_a before_o you_o fall_v to_o p._n d._n you_o take_v the_o course_n to_o do_v it_o with_o all_o this_o impertinency_n but_o what_o be_v it_o you_o have_v to_o say_v r._n p._n to_o please_v you_o i_o will_v bring_v this_o charge_n as_o near_o to_o the_o point_n of_o idolatry_n as_o i_o can_v the_o substance_n of_o it_o be_v this_o dr._n st._n say_v the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v not_o look_v on_o her_o article_n as_o article_n of_o faith_n etc._n but_o as_o inferior_a truth_n from_o thence_o t._n g._n infer_v 1._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o err_v against_o any_o article_n of_o faith_n 2._o dr._n st._n do_v not_o believe_v the_o thirty_o nine_o article_n to_o be_v article_n of_o faith_n 3_o then_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n be_v vain_a and_o groundless_a because_o idolatry_n be_v a_o error_n against_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n p._n d._n here_o be_v not_o one_o word_n new_a in_o all_o this_o long_a charge_n but_o a_o tedious_a repetition_n of_o what_o t._n g._n have_v say_v before_o it_o consist_v of_o two_o point_n 1._o the_o charge_n upon_o dr._n st._n for_o undermine_v the_o church_n of_o england_n 2._o the_o unreasonableness_n of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n upon_o his_o own_o supposition_n because_o t._n g._n seem_v to_o think_v there_o be_v something_o in_o this_o business_n which_o touch_v dr._n st._n to_o the_o quick_a and_o therefore_o he_o decline_v give_v any_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o part_n of_o it_o i_o will_v undertake_v to_o do_v it_o for_o he_o dr._n st._n do_v indeed_o say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v not_o make_v her_o article_n article_n of_o faith_n as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v the_o article_n of_o pope_n pius_n the_o four_o his_o creed_n and_o do_v ever_o any_o divine_a of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n say_v otherwise_o it_o be_v true_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o her_o insolent_a pretence_n of_o infallibility_n do_v make_v all_o thing_n propose_v by_o the_o church_n of_o equal_a necessity_n to_o salvation_n because_o the_o ground_n of_o faith_n be_v the_o church_n authority_n in_o propose_v thing_n to_o be_v believe_v but_o do_v the_o church_n of_o england_n challenge_v any_o such_o infallibility_n to_o herself_o no._n she_o utter_o disow_v it_o in_o her_o very_a article_n therefore_o she_o must_v leave_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o she_o find_v they_o i._n e._n she_o receive_v all_o the_o creed_n into_o her_o article_n and_o office_n but_o make_v no_o addition_n to_o they_o of_o her_o own_o and_o therefore_o dr._n st._n do_v with_o great_a reason_n say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n make_v no_o article_n of_o faith_n but_o such_o as_o have_v the_o testimony_n and_o approbation_n of_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n and_o of_o all_o age_n and_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v such_o by_o rome_n itself_o from_o whence_o he_o do_v just_o magnify_v the_o moderation_n of_o this_o church_n in_o comparison_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v that_o he_o have_v degrade_v the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o be_v article_n of_o faith_n into_o a_o low_a class_n of_o inferior_a truth_n p._n d._n i_o perceive_v plain_o t._n g._n do_v not_o know_v what_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n mean_v according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n he_o look_v on_o all_o proposition_n make_v by_o the_o church_n as_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v the_o roman_a sense_n and_o found_v on_o the_o doctrine_n of_o infallibility_n but_o where_o the_o church_n infallibility_n be_v reject_v article_n of_o faith_n be_v such_o as_o have_v be_v think_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n which_o consent_n be_v see_v in_o the_o ancient_a creed_n and_o whatever_o doctrine_n be_v not_o contain_v therein_o though_o it_o be_v receive_v as_o truth_n and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n yet_o be_v not_o account_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n i._n e._n not_o immediate_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n as_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n but_o because_o of_o the_o dissension_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n a_o particular_a church_n may_v for_o the_o preservation_n of_o her_o own_o peace_n declare_v her_o sense_n as_o to_o the_o truth_n and_o falsehood_n of_o some_o controvert_v point_n of_o religion_n and_o require_v from_o all_o person_n who_o be_v entrust_v in_o the_o office_n of_o that_o church_n a_o subscription_n to_o those_o article_n which_o do_v imply_v that_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o sense_n of_o that_o church_n about_o they_o r._n p._n but_o dr._n st._n say_v from_o archbishop_n bramhall_n that_o the_o church_n do_v not_o oblige_v any_o man_n to_o believe_v they_o but_o only_o not_o to_o contradict_v they_o and_o upon_o this_o t._n g._n triumph_n over_o dr._n st._n as_o undermine_v the_o doctrine_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n why_o not_o over_o archbishop_n bramhall_n who_o word_n dr._n st._n cite_v and_o be_v he_o a_o favourer_n of_o dissenter_n and_o a_o underminer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n yet_o dr._n st._n himself_o in_o that_o place_n own_v a_o subscription_n to_o they_o as_o necessary_a and_o what_o do_v subscription_n imply_v less_o than_o agree_v with_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n so_o that_o he_o say_v more_o than_o archbishop_n bramhall_n do_v and_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o his_o word_n can_v pass_v but_o with_o this_o construction_n that_o when_o he_o say_v we_o do_v not_o oblige_v any_o man_n to_o believe_v they_o he_o mean_v as_o article_n of_o faith_n of_o which_o he_o speak_v just_a before_o but_o i_o do_v free_o yield_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v require_v assent_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o those_o proposition_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o thirty_o nine_o article_n and_o so_o do_v dr._n st._n when_o he_o say_v the_o church_n require_v subscription_n to_o they_o as_o inferior_a truth_n i._n e._n own_v they_o to_o be_v true_a proposition_n though_o not_o as_o article_n of_o faith_n but_o article_n of_o religion_n as_o our_o church_n call_v they_o r._n p._n if_o they_o be_v but_o inferior_a truth_n say_v t._n g._n be_v it_o worth_a the_o while_n to_o rend_v asunder_o the_o peace_n of_o christendom_n for_o they_o be_v not_o this_o a_o very_a reasonable_a account_n as_o i._o s._n call_v it_o of_o the_o ground_n of_o the_o protestant_a religion_n and_o a_o rare_a way_n of_o justify_v she_o from_o the_o guilt_n of_o schism_n p._n d._n t._n g._n mistake_v the_o matter_n it_o be_v not_o our_o impose_v negative_a point_n on_o other_o but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n impose_v false_a and_o absurd_a doctrine_n for_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n which_o do_v break_v the_o peace_n of_o christendom_n we_o can_v have_v no_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n unless_o we_o own_v her_o supremacy_n her_o canon_n of_o scripture_n her_o rule_n of_o faith_n or_o the_o equality_n of_o tradition_n and_o scripture_n her_o doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n invocation_n of_o saint_n worship_n of_o image_n transubstantiation_n etc._n etc._n and_o we_o be_v require_v not_o
resolve_v to_o believe_v it_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o your_o church_n can_v never_o persuade_v any_o man_n that_o be_v not_o r._n p._n when_o you_o be_v get_v to_o this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n it_o be_v hard_o to_o get_v you_o off_o it_o be_v the_o sore_a place_n of_o our_o church_n and_o you_o be_v like_o fly_n in_o summer_n always_o busy_a about_o it_o i_o pray_v return_n to_o your_o rubric_n for_o you_o seem_v to_o have_v forget_v it_o p._n d._n no_o i_o have_v be_v pursue_v it_o hitherto_o r._n p._n but_o what_o say_v you_o to_o t._n g.'s_n reason_n why_o this_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o a_o corporeal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n because_o you_o else_o overthrow_v the_o doctrine_n of_o a_o real_a presence_n which_o have_v be_v account_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o rubric_n say_v express_o that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n to_o be_v at_o one_o time_n in_o more_o place_n than_o one_o it_o do_v not_o say_v against_o the_o corporeal_a presence_n of_o his_o natural_a body_n but_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o from_o whence_o it_o follow_v that_o our_o church_n believe_v the_o true_a natural_a body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n and_o ascend_v into_o heaven_n can_v be_v but_o in_o one_o place_n which_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o forego_n word_n and_o the_o natural_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n be_v in_o heaven_n and_o not_o here_o i._n e._n in_o heaven_n exclusive_o from_o be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v not_o true_a if_o the_o same_o natural_a body_n of_o christ_n can_v be_v at_o the_o same_o time_n in_o heaven_n and_o in_o the_o host._n r._n p._n how_o then_o can_v your_o divine_n hold_v a_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n as_o t._n g._n say_v they_o do_v p._n d._n you_o have_v hear_v if_o you_o have_v stay_v till_o i_o come_v to_o my_o second_o answer_n which_o be_v that_o notwithstanding_o this_o our_o church_n do_v hold_v that_o after_o consecration_n the_o element_n do_v become_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n and_o so_o there_o be_v a_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n but_o not_o of_o his_o natural_a but_o of_o a_o mystical_a body_n i_o will_v endeavour_v to_o make_v this_o out_o to_o you_o because_o you_o look_v strange_o upon_o i_o as_o if_o i_o be_v big_a of_o some_o mighty_a paradox_n when_o paschasius_fw-la radbertus_n do_v first_o broach_v the_o modern_a doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n about_o the_o same_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n in_o the_o western_a church_n he_o meet_v with_o great_a opposition_n therein_o from_o the_o most_o learned_a divine_n of_o that_o age_n among_o the_o rest_n there_o live_v then_o in_o the_o court_n of_o carolus_n calvus_n a_o man_n very_o eminent_a for_o his_o learning_n call_v joh._n scotus_n or_o erigena_n this_o man_n at_o the_o request_n of_o carolus_n calvus_n deliver_v his_o opinion_n direct_o contrary_a to_o paschasius_fw-la for_o whereas_o he_o assert_v that_o the_o very_a same_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v invisible_o present_a under_o the_o accident_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n scotus_n deny_v that_o the_o element_n be_v in_o any_o real_a sense_n after_o consecration_n the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n the_o sacrament_n be_v only_o a_o bare_a commemoration_n or_o figurative_a representation_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ._n 4._o so_o hincmarus_n who_o live_v in_o that_o age_n deliver_v his_o opinion_n which_o be_v afterward_o take_v up_o by_o berengarius_fw-la as_o appear_v by_o lanfrank_n answer_n to_o he_o and_o ascelinus_fw-la in_o his_o epistle_n to_o berengarius_fw-la show_v that_o joh._n scotus_n out_o of_o opposition_n to_o paschasius_fw-la set_v himself_o to_o prove_v from_o the_o father_n that_o what_o be_v consecrate_v on_o the_o altar_n be_v not_o true_o and_o real_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ._n these_o two_o opposite_a doctrine_n be_v thus_o disperse_v and_o a_o schism_n be_v likely_a to_o break_v out_o upon_o it_o as_o appear_v both_o by_o ratramnus_n and_o the_o anonymous_n author_n publish_v by_o cellotius_n and_o extant_a in_o ms_n in_o the_o cotton_n library_n carolus_n calvus_n send_v to_o ratramnus_n a_o eminent_a divine_a of_o that_o age_n be_v employ_v by_o the_o gallican_n church_n to_o defend_v the_o latin_n against_o the_o greek_n to_o know_v his_o judgement_n in_o this_o matter_n he_o who_o be_v better_o know_v by_o the_o name_n of_o bertram_n give_v in_o his_o preface_n a_o account_n to_o his_o prince_n of_o both_o these_o opinion_n and_o reject_v they_o both_o as_o against_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o father_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o his_o book_n he_o dispute_v against_o scotus_n who_o will_v allow_v no_o mystery_n and_o in_o the_o second_o against_o paschasius_fw-la who_o contend_v that_o the_o same_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n this_o he_o say_v be_v the_o state_n of_o the_o second_o question_n whether_o that_o very_a body_n of_o christ_n which_o sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n be_v receive_v by_o believer_n in_o the_o sacramental_a mystery_n and_o he_o prove_v the_o negative_a at_o large_a from_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n show_v that_o they_o do_v put_v a_o difference_n between_o that_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n and_o that_o true_a but_o mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o altar_n and_o so_o from_o the_o testimony_n of_o s._n ambrose_n s._n augustine_n s._n hierom_n fulgentius_n from_o the_o scripture_n and_o from_o the_o office_n of_o the_o church_n he_o conclude_v pointblank_o against_o paschasius_fw-la that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o same_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n but_o then_o against_o the_o opinion_n of_o scotus_n he_o deliver_v his_o mind_n full_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o question_n say_v if_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o what_o appear_v to_o the_o sense_n it_o be_v unfit_o call_v a_o mystery_n and_o there_o will_v be_v no_o exercise_n for_o faith_n no_o change_n at_o all_o wrought_v in_o the_o element_n the_o sacrament_n will_v fall_v short_a of_o baptism_n and_o the_o manna_n in_o the_o wilderness_n and_o last_o to_o what_o purpose_n do_v christ_n promise_v his_o flesh_n to_o be_v the_o food_n of_o his_o people_n which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v carnal_o and_o literal_o must_v have_v a_o spiritual_a signification_n so_o that_o though_o as_o to_o their_o outward_a appearance_n the_o sacramental_a element_n be_v figure_n yet_o according_a to_o the_o invisible_a power_n and_o efficacy_n they_o be_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ._n and_o this_o he_o show_v to_o have_v be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o father_n and_o christian_a church_n this_o opinion_n of_o ratramnus_n paschasius_fw-la in_o his_o epistle_n to_o frudegardus_fw-la call_v the_o doctrine_n of_o those_o who_o deny_v the_o presence_n of_o christ_n flesh_n in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o do_v hold_v a_o invisible_a power_n and_o efficacy_n in_o and_o with_o the_o element_n because_o say_v they_o there_o be_v no_o body_n but_o what_o be_v visible_a and_o palpable_a and_o whoever_o will_v read_v that_o epistle_n of_o paschasius_fw-la will_v find_v the_o expression_n he_o answer_v the_o very_a same_o that_o yet_o occur_v in_o the_o book_n of_o bertram_n of_o the_o same_o opinion_n with_o ratramnus_n in_o this_o matter_n be_v rabanus_n maurus_n the_o great_a divine_a account_v of_o his_o age_n who_o write_v his_o epistle_n to_o egilo_n against_o they_o who_o have_v late_o broach_v that_o doctrine_n mark_n that_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o very_a same_o which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n and_o rose_n from_o the_o dead_a and_o this_o appear_v from_o his_o epistle_n to_o heribaldus_n still_o extant_a wherein_o he_o say_v he_o declare_v in_o what_o sense_n the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o body_n of_o christ._n beside_o the_o anonymus_fw-la author_n publish_v by_o cellotius_n the_o only_a person_n about_o that_o time_n who_o appear_v in_o behalf_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o paschasius_fw-la and_o very_o inconsiderable_a in_o comparison_n of_o his_o adversary_n confess_v the_o opposition_n make_v to_o paschasius_fw-la by_o rabanus_n and_o ratramnus_n and_o endeavour_n to_o excuse_v his_o simplicity_n in_o assert_v that_o the_o same_o flesh_n of_o christ_n be_v upon_o the_o altar_n which_o be_v
same_o form_n of_o word_n continue_v still_o in_o the_o office_n as_o if_o the_o oblation_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v still_o make_v by_o the_o people_n 3._o and_o so_o sirmondus_n and_o bona_fw-la both_o say_v those_o expression_n of_o the_o mass-book_n you_o mention_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o these_o oblation_n of_o the_o people_n and_o not_o of_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o that_o these_o oblation_n be_v call_v sacrifice_n appear_v by_o the_o know_a passage_n of_o s._n cyprian_n eleemosyn_n locuple_n &_o dive_v es_a &_o dominicum_fw-la celebrare_fw-la te_fw-la credis_fw-la quae_fw-la in_o dominicum_fw-la sine_fw-la sacrificio_fw-la venis_fw-la quae_fw-la partem_fw-la de_fw-la sacrificio_fw-la quod_fw-la pauper_fw-la obtulit_fw-la sumis_fw-la in_o which_o he_o blame_v the_o rich_a woman_n that_o come_v without_o a_o oblation_n which_o he_o call_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o do_v partake_v of_o that_o which_o the_o poor_a offer_v which_o s._n augustin_n call_v de_fw-la aliena_fw-la oblatione_fw-la communicare_fw-la temp_n and_o therefore_o he_o bid_v all_o communicants_a to_o make_v their_o own_o oblation_n at_o the_o altar_n but_o suppose_v these_o expression_n be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o oblation_n of_o the_o people_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a the_o prayer_n call_v secretae_fw-la and_o the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n be_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o fair_o do_v of_o t._n g._n to_o leave_v out_o a_o very_a significant_a word_n which_o immediate_o follow_v viz._n laudis_fw-la qui_fw-la tibi_fw-la offerunt_fw-la hoc_fw-la sacrificium_fw-la laudis_fw-la if_o the_o people_n be_v allow_v their_o share_n in_o the_o eucharistical_a sacrifice_n of_o praise_n and_o thanksgiving_n what_o be_v this_o to_o their_o offer_v up_o the_o proper_a propitiatory_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n i_o do_v not_o deny_v that_o the_o people_n have_v a_o share_n in_o the_o sacrifice_n according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o antiquity_n not_o only_o from_o their_o oblation_n but_o because_o as_o cassander_n well_o observe_v christi_fw-la the_o ancient_n do_v call_v the_o whole_a eucharistical_a office_n as_o it_o take_v in_o the_o people_n part_n as_o well_o as_o the_o priest_n by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n and_o so_o the_o oblation_n prayer_n thanksgiving_n consecration_n commemoration_n distribution_n participation_n do_v all_o belong_v to_o the_o sacrifice_n but_o since_o you_o restrain_v the_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n to_o the_o oblation_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n to_o god_n by_o the_o priest_n dr._n st._n have_v reason_n to_o say_v that_o the_o sacrifice_n among_o you_o belong_v to_o the_o priest_n and_o be_v not_o a_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n common_a to_o all_o and_o so_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n you_o put_v on_o the_o mass-book_n you_o leave_v no_o one_o act_n of_o peculiar_a external_a worship_n appropriate_v to_o god_n which_o be_v to_o be_v perform_v by_o all_o christian_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n to_o be_v prove_v the_o end_n book_n print_v for_o and_o sell_v by_o henry_n mortlock_n at_o the_o phoenix_n in_o st._n paul_n churchyard_n and_o at_o the_o white_a hart_n in_o westminster-hall_n a_o rational_a account_n of_o the_o ground_n of_o protestant_a religion_n be_v a_o vindication_n of_o the_o lord-archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n relation_n of_o a_o conference_n etc._n etc._n from_o the_o pretend_a answer_n of_o t._n c._n folio_n sermon_n preach_v upon_o several_a occasion_n with_o a_o discourse_n annex_v concern_v the_o true_a reason_n of_o the_o suffering_n of_o christ_n wherein_o crellius_n answer_n to_o grotius_n be_v consider_v folio_n irenicum_fw-la a_o weapon-salve_n for_o the_o church_n wound_n in_o quarto_fw-la origines_fw-la sacrae_fw-la or_o a_o rational_a account_n of_o the_o ground_n of_o christian_a faith_n as_o to_o the_o truth_n and_o divine_a authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o matter_n therein_o contain_v quarto_n a_o discourse_n concern_v the_o idolatry_n practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o hazard_n of_o salvation_n in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o in_o answer_n to_o some_o paper_n of_o a_o revolred_a protestant_n wherein_o a_o particular_a account_n be_v give_v of_o the_o fanaticism_n and_o division_n of_o that_o church_n octavo_n a_o answer_n to_o several_a late_a treatise_n occasion_v by_o a_o book_n entitle_v a_o discourse_n concern_v the_o idolatry_n practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o hazard_n of_o salvation_n in_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o the_o first_o part_n octovo_n a_o second_o discourse_n in_o vindication_n of_o the_o protestant_a ground_n of_o faith_n against_o the_o pretence_n of_o infallibility_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o guide_n in_o controversy_n by_o r._n h._n protestancy_n without_o principle_n and_o reason_n and_o religion_n or_o the_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n by_o e._n w._n with_o a_o particular_a enquiry_n into_o the_o miracle_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n octavo_n a_o answer_n to_o mr._n cressey_n epistle_n apologetical_a to_o a_o person_n of_o honour_n touch_v his_o vindication_n of_o dr._n stillingfleet_n octavo_n a_o defence_n of_o the_o discourse_n concern_v the_o idolatry_n practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o answer_n to_o a_o book_n entitle_v catholic_n no_o idolater_n all_o write_v by_o edward_n stillingfleet_n d._n d._n dean_n of_o st._n paul_n and_o chaplain_n in_o ordinary_a to_o his_o majesty_n the_o rule_n of_o faith_n or_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o treatise_n of_o mr._n i._n s._n entitle_v sure_o foot_v etc._n etc._n by_o john_n tillotson_n d._n d._n preacher_n to_o the_o honourable_a society_n of_o lincolns-inn_n to_o which_o be_v adjoin_v a_o reply_n to_o mr._n i._n s._n his_o three_o appendix_n etc._n etc._n by_o edw._n stillingfleet_n d._n d._n dean_n of_o st._n paul_n and_o chaplain_n in_o ordinary_a to_o his_o majesty_n the_o antiquity_n of_o nottinghamshire_n extract_v out_o of_o record_n original_a evidence_n lieger_n book_n other_o manuscript_n and_o authentic_a authority_n beautify_v with_o map_n prospect_n and_o portraiture_n by_o robert_n thoroton_n dr._n of_o physic_n folio_n finis_fw-la dial_n p._n 13._o p._n 10._o cath._n no_o idol_n p._n 197._o dial._n p._n 62._o preface_n to_o cath._n no_o idol_n dial._n p._n 9_o dial._n p._n 15._o dial._n p._n 17._o cypr._n anglic_a p_o 364._o 1_o ed._n p._n 3â—_n necessary_a introd_a to_o the_o history_n of_o b._n laud._n p._n 14._o conference_n with_o fisher._n p._n 277._o history_n of_o his_o trial_n p._n 472._o cypr._n angl._n p._n 435·_n dial._n p._n 28._o dial._n p._n 19_o cypr._n angl._n p._n 418._o dial._n p._n 21._o hincmar_n de_fw-fr praedest_fw-la c._n 31._o lanfranc_n de_fw-fr corp._n &_o sang._n christ._n c._n 4._o guitm_n de_fw-fr sacr_n l._n 1._o cajet_fw-fr in_o aquin._n 3._o p._n q._n 75._o art_n 1._o &_o 2._o &_o â—_o aq._n 4._o do_v 44._o q._n 2._o be_v 2._o conink_v the_o sacr_n qu._n 75._o art_n 3._o maerat_fw-la de_fw-fr sacr_n disp_n 24._o sect_n 1._o lugo_n de_fw-fr sacram._n disp_n 5._o §._o 1._o suarez_n in_o 3._o p._n disp_n 48._o art_n 1_o §._o 4._o gamach_n iâ—_n 3._o p._n qu._n 76._o c._n 4._o ysambert_n qu._n 75._o disp_n 3._o art_n 8._o vasq._n in_o 3._o p._n disp_n 109._o c._n 4._o art_n 6._o p._n 28._o dial._n p._n 25_o 27._o cypr._n angl._n p._n 48.1_o ed._n p._n 66._o dial._n p._n 30._o to_o 33._o law_n of_o the_o ch._n ch._n 4._o p._n 30._o dial._n p._n 42._o etc._n etc._n cypr._n angl._n p._n 62._o cypr._n angl._n p._n 189._o dial._n p._n 46_o 47_o etc._n etc._n dial._n p._n â—7_n dial._n p._n 49._o prodr_n p._n 76._o b._n andrews_n resp._n ad_fw-la apolog._n bell._n p._n 37._o compare_v with_o burial_n deâ—ens_fw-la respon_n ad_fw-la apolog._n c._n 6._o q._n 21._o b._n sanders_n preface_n to_o his_o serm._n §._n 15._o de_fw-fr obligat_fw-la cons_n prael_n 4._o §._o 33._o dial._n p._n 51_o etc._n etc._n p._n 63._o dial._n p._n 52._o p._n 160._o p._n 162._o dial._n p._n 59_o 60_o 61._o dial._n p._n 53_o 54._o p._n 56._o defence_n p._n 581._o joh._n rosin_n vit_fw-mi â—â—ed_a sapient_a dial._n p._n 141_o etc._n etc._n dial._n p._n 132._o dial._n p._n 133_o 134._o pontificale_fw-la rom._n de_fw-fr ordinat_fw-la presbyt_fw-la council_n trident._n sess._n 23._o c._n 4._o dial._n p._n 143._o dial._n p._n 151_o etc._n etc._n p._n 155._o p._n 157._o scot._n in_o sâ—nt_n l._n 4._o do_v 4._o q._n 9_o biel._n in_o sâ—nt_n q._n 2._o cajet_fw-fr in_o 3._o p._n q._n 63._o art_n 1._o morin_n de_fw-fr ordin_n part_n 3._o exercit._fw-la 3._o c._n 1._o â—_o 4._o alex._n al._n 4._o p._n q._n 8._o memb_v 5._o art_n 1._o §._o 6._o ad_fw-la 2._o scot._n in_o 4._o do_v 25._o q._n 1._o resp_n ad_fw-la 3_o morin_n ib._n exerc_n 5._o c._n 9_o n._n 12_o 13._o grat._n 1._o q._n 1._o post_n can_v 97._o gul._n paâ—is_n de_fw-fr sacr._n ord._n c._n 7._o morin_n de_fw-fr ord._n sacr._n p._n
several_a conference_n between_o a_o romish_a priest_n a_o fanatic_a chaplain_n and_o a_o divine_a of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n concern_v the_o idolatry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o full_a answer_n to_o the_o late_a dialogue_n of_o t._n g._n london_n print_v by_o m._n w._n for_o h._n mortlock_n at_o the_o phoenix_n in_o st._n paul_n churchyard_n and_o at_o the_o white_a hart_n in_o westminster_n hall_n 1679._o imprimatur_fw-la guil._n jane_n r._n p._n d._n hen._n episc._n lond._n à _fw-la sac_fw-la dome_a may_v 6._o 1679._o the_o preface_n the_o follow_a discourse_n contain_v a_o full_a and_o distinct_a answer_n to_o the_o late_a dialogue_n of_o t.g._n wherein_o the_o reader_n may_v perceive_v what_o a_o easy_a victory_n truth_n when_o it_o stand_v its_o ground_n will_v obtain_v over_o wit_n and_o subtilty_n when_o the_o man_n who_o fall_v in_o the_o olympic_a game_n endeavour_v by_o his_o eloquence_n to_o persuade_v the_o spectator_n he_o be_v never_o down_o it_o be_v possible_a he_o may_v meet_v with_o some_o weak_a and_o other_o partial_a enough_o to_o believe_v he_o but_o the_o judge_n can_v not_o but_o smile_v at_o their_o folly_n who_o do_v not_o discern_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o firmness_n of_o the_o one_o stand_v and_o the_o other_o artificial_a rise_a the_o one_o may_v show_v more_o art_n and_o dexterity_n but_o the_o other_o have_v more_o strength_n or_o some_o other_o advantage_n i_o shall_v leave_v the_o reader_n to_o judge_v in_o these_o combat_n who_o maintain_v his_o ground_n best_o and_o who_o seek_v chief_o to_o avoid_v the_o dis-reputation_n of_o lose_v it_o he_o that_o keep_v close_o to_o his_o adversary_n decline_v no_o difficulty_n use_v no_o reproachful_a language_n or_o disingenuous_a deal_n have_v certain_o great_a assurance_n of_o the_o goodness_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o more_o hope_n to_o prevail_v than_o he_o that_o study_v for_o shift_n and_o evasion_n avoid_v the_o strong_a argument_n and_o fly_v out_o into_o impertinent_a cavil_n and_o personal_a reflection_n which_o be_v great_a sign_n that_o the_o man_n be_v conscious_a of_o the_o badness_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o despair_n of_o success_n by_o any_o other_o mean_n and_o the_o author_n of_o these_o discourse_n desire_n that_o his_o adversary_n and_o himself_o may_v stand_v or_o fall_v according_a to_o these_o measure_n as_o to_o the_o manner_n of_o write_v here_o use_v viz._n by_o way_n of_o dialogue_n it_o be_v that_o which_o his_o adversary_n lead_v he_o to_o and_o possible_o where_o the_o decency_n of_o it_o be_v well_o observe_v it_o may_v make_v controversy_n go_v down_o more_o pleasant_o than_o otherwise_o it_o will_v for_o there_o appear_v more_o life_n and_o vigour_n in_o a_o discourse_n carry_v on_o by_o several_a person_n of_o different_a humour_n and_o opinion_n than_o in_o one_o continue_a deduction_n of_o reason_n and_o the_o author_n declare_v he_o intend_v no_o reflection_n on_o any_o sober_a party_n of_o man_n among_o we_o in_o the_o representation_n make_v of_o the_o army-chaplain_n who_o bear_v the_o three_o part_n in_o the_o conference_n but_o only_o to_o show_v the_o advantage_n the_o popish_a party_n take_v from_o the_o weak_a and_o peevish_a exception_n which_o some_o man_n have_v make_v against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o how_o they_o insinuate_v themselves_o into_o they_o on_o the_o account_n of_o their_o prejudices_fw-la against_o it_o and_o have_v make_v use_n of_o their_o indiscreet_a zeal_n to_o compass_v their_o own_o end_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o romance_n or_o fiction_n that_o beside_o the_o footstep_n which_o may_v be_v yet_o trace_v of_o these_o transaction_n by_o the_o mean_n and_o instrument_n which_o be_v employ_v about_o they_o we_o find_v that_o one_o of_o the_o most_o busy_a factor_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n whâ—n_o he_o most_o confident_o deny_v the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o late_a horrid_a design_n do_v not_o stick_v to_o avow_v and_o own_v this_o that_o they_o do_v hope_n to_o prevail_v at_o last_o by_o join_v their_o strength_n with_o the_o obstinate_a dissenter_n in_o procure_v a_o general_n toleration_n which_o be_v all_o the_o visible_a design_n they_o be_v carry_v on_o when_o these_o discourse_n be_v write_v since_o which_o the_o face_n of_o thing_n have_v be_v so_o much_o alter_v among_o we_o and_o the_o time_n appear_v so_o busy_a and_o dangerous_a that_o it_o be_v think_v more_o adviseable_a to_o respite_v the_o publish_n of_o these_o controversial_a discourse_n till_o man_n mind_n be_v a_o little_a calm_v lest_o the_o author_n of_o they_o shall_v seem_v guilty_a of_o the_o impertinent_a diligence_n of_o archimedes_n viz._n of_o draw_v line_n in_o the_o dust_n when_o the_o enemy_n be_v ready_a to_o destroy_v we_o have_v the_o author_n have_v any_o occasion_n to_o have_v run_v away_o from_o the_o argument_n under_o debate_n between_o he_o and_o his_o adversary_n he_o do_v not_o want_v a_o fair_a opportunity_n in_o the_o present_a state_n of_o thing_n to_o have_v put_v he_o in_o mind_n of_o something_o very_o different_a from_o a_o irenicum_fw-la but_o he_o desire_v i_o to_o acquaint_v the_o reader_n that_o he_o do_v so_o perfect_o abhor_v this_o impertinent_a and_o disingenuous_a way_n of_o writing_n especial_o about_o matter_n of_o religion_n that_o he_o can_v neither_o be_v provoke_v nor_o tempt_v to_o it_o no_o not_o by_o so_o great_a and_o fresh_a a_o example_n as_o he_o have_v all_o along_o before_o his_o eye_n may_v that_o wise_a and_o gracious_a god_n who_o have_v hitherto_o defeat_v the_o cruel_a and_o malicious_a design_n of_o our_o church_n enemy_n still_o preserve_v it_o under_o the_o shadow_n of_o his_o wing_n and_o continue_v it_o a_o praise_n in_o the_o earth_n the_o content_n first_o conference_n concern_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n about_o the_o idolatry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o introduction_n to_o it_o page_n 1_o a_o account_n of_o t._n g.'s_n late_a dialogue_n p._n 10_o of_o the_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n according_a to_o t._n g._n p._n 11.19_o of_o his_o intention_n about_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o this_o matter_n p._n 15_o of_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o testimony_n produce_v by_o dr._n st._n p._n 20_o the_o argument_n from_o the_o homily_n defend_v p._n 22_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n prove_v to_o be_v no_o heat_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n p._n 26_o the_o argument_n from_o the_o rubric_n for_o kneel_v at_o the_o communion_n at_o large_a consider_v p._n 34_o no_o colour_n for_o idolatry_n in_o kneel_v at_o the_o eucharist_n p._n 35_o t._n g.'s_n sense_n of_o the_o rubric_n examine_v p._n 46_o of_o material_a and_o formal_a idolatry_n p._n 52_o how_o far_o the_o real_a presence_n be_v hold_v by_o our_o church_n p._n 56_o bertram_n book_v not_o the_o same_o with_o that_o of_o joh._n scotus_n p._n 63_o of_o the_o stercoranist_n p._n 64_o of_o impanation_n p._n 65_o of_o a_o corporeal_a presence_n p._n 68_o of_o b._n abbot_n be_v a_o puritan_n p._n 74_o how_o far_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v chargeable_a with_o idolatry_n p._n 79_o mr._n thorndike_n vindicate_v from_o suspicion_n of_o popery_n by_o a_o m_o s._n of_o his_o own_o writing_n here_o publish_v p._n 85_o archbishop_n whitgift_n testimony_n clear_v p._n 93_o of_o the_o distinction_n between_o part_n and_o circumstance_n of_o worship_n p._n 100_o how_o far_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o article_n of_o our_o church_n p._n 103_o second_v conference_n about_o the_o consequence_n of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n p._n 113_o the_o introduction_n concern_v the_o restauration_n of_o learning_n be_v the_o true_a occasion_n of_o the_o reformation_n p._n 115_o of_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n on_o supposition_n of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n p._n 121_o authority_n go_v along_o with_o the_o power_n of_o order_n by_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n p._n 125_o of_o the_o indelible_a character_n p._n 129_o the_o distinction_n between_o the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n examine_v p._n 134_o of_o excommunication_n ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la on_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n p._n 141_o dr._n st._n prove_v to_o have_v no_o design_n to_o undermine_v the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n 145_o the_o design_n of_o his_o irenicum_fw-la clear_v p._n 148_o how_o far_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o the_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n consistent_a with_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n p._n 151_o a_o large_a testimony_n of_o b._n sanderson_n to_o that_o purpose_n p._n 153_o no_o necessity_n of_o assign_v a_o distinct_a church_n in_o all_o age_n p._n 158_o no_o obligation_n to_o communion_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n p._n 161_o no_o parity_n of_o reason_n in_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o
in_o euclid_n be_v plain_a than_o this_o r._n p._n but_o i_o tell_v you_o we_o do_v not_o worship_v the_o creature_n but_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n p._n d._n i_o tell_v you_o again_o if_o there_o be_v a_o creature_n you_o do_v worship_n it_o for_o you_o give_v adoration_n to_o what_o be_v before_o you_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v if_o it_o be_v a_o creature_n you_o adore_v it_o r._n p._n but_o we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o a_o creature_n we_o worship_v p._n d._n do_v not_o you_o give_v adoration_n to_o that_o which_o be_v consecrate_v whether_o it_o remain_v a_o creature_n or_o not_o after_o consecration_n at_o the_o elevation_n of_o the_o host_n at_z the_o carrying_z it_o about_o at_o the_o expose_v of_o it_o on_o the_o altar_n you_o worship_v that_o which_o be_v consecrate_v do_v you_o not_o r._n p._n we_o worship_v that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o consecration_n but_o after_o be_v no_o long_o so_o but_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n p._n d._n but_o if_o it_o shall_v remain_v bread_n after_o consecration_n what_o do_v you_o adore_v then_o be_v it_o not_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n r._n p._n yes_o but_o we_o believe_v it_o be_v not_o the_o bread_n p._n d._n that_o be_v not_o the_o question_n what_o you_o believe_v for_o they_o that_o believe_v god_n to_o be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n worship_v the_o part_n of_o it_o upon_o a_o supposition_n which_o if_o it_o have_v be_v true_a will_v have_v justify_v their_o worship_n every_o jot_n as_o well_o as_o you_o can_v do_v you_o and_o yet_o they_o be_v gross_a idolater_n for_o all_o that_o nay_o i_o will_v say_v more_o to_o you_o there_o never_o be_v idolater_n in_o the_o world_n that_o do_v not_o proceed_v upon_o a_o false_a supposition_n and_o it_o may_v be_v not_o so_o unreasonable_a as_o you_o this_o can_v therefore_o excuse_v you_o if_o your_o supposition_n prove_v false_a as_o no_o doubt_n it_o be_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v not_o remain_v after_o consecration_n but_o i_o now_o ask_v you_o what_o your_o adoration_n be_v in_o the_o opinion_n of_o those_o person_n who_o do_v firm_o believe_v the_o sacramental_a element_n to_o remain_v in_o their_o natural_a substance_n be_v it_o not_o the_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o creature_n and_o be_v not_o the_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o creature_n idolatry_n so_o that_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n the_o worship_n of_o the_o host_n must_v be_v idolatry_n r._n p._n but_o what_o have_v you_o get_v by_o all_o this_o for_o we_o confess_v ourselves_o that_o if_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v remain_v after_o consecration_n we_o be_v as_o great_a idolater_n as_o they_o that_o worship_v a_o red_a cloth_n p._n d._n upon_o my_o word_n you_o have_v need_v then_o to_o be_v well_o assure_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v not_o remain_v and_o yet_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o we_o can_v be_v certain_a of_o nothing_o in_o the_o world_n if_o we_o be_v not_o certain_a that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v remain_v after_o consecration_n for_o if_o we_o be_v certain_a of_o nothing_o by_o our_o sense_n but_o of_o the_o outward_a accident_n which_o be_v all_o your_o best_a man_n do_v say_v in_o this_o case_n we_o can_v be_v certain_a of_o any_o visible_a substance_n in_o the_o world_n for_o no_o bodily_a substance_n can_v be_v discern_v but_o by_o our_o sense_n and_o so_o all_o foundation_n of_o certainty_n by_o sense_n be_v destroy_v nay_o far_o it_o take_v away_o all_o certainty_n by_o reason_n for_o it_o confound_v the_o clear_a maxim_n of_o it_o by_o overthrow_v all_o mathematical_a proportion_n of_o great_a and_o small_a whole_a and_o part_n by_o destroy_v all_o notion_n of_o distance_n and_o place_n by_o jumble_v the_o notion_n of_o body_n and_o spirit_n and_o last_o it_o take_v away_o all_o certainty_n by_o revelation_n which_o can_v never_o come_v to_o we_o but_o upon_o the_o supposition_n of_o the_o certainty_n of_o sense_n and_o reason_n r._n p._n o_o sir_n i_o see_v what_o you_o will_v be_v at_o you_o will_v fain_o draw_v i_o into_o a_o dispute_n about_o transubstantiation_n upon_o principle_n of_o reason_n i_o beg_v your_o pardon_n sir_n this_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o must_v be_v stout_o believe_v or_o else_o we_o be_v go_v no_o more_o of_o this_o sir_n to_o your_o business_n of_o idolatry_n i_o pray_v p._n d._n i_o be_v only_o give_v you_o some_o caution_n by_o the_o by_o how_o much_o you_o be_v concern_v to_o look_v about_o you_o but_o since_o you_o be_v resolve_v to_o shut_v your_o eye_n i_o return_v to_o the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n about_o the_o idolatry_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o it_o follow_v necessary_o from_o our_o former_a discourse_n that_o since_o our_o church_n believe_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o element_n do_v remain_v and_o that_o your_o worship_n do_v real_o fix_v upon_o that_o substance_n whatever_o your_o intention_n be_v it_o be_v real_o idolatry_n r._n p._n however_o this_o only_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v material_a idolatry_n and_o not_o formal_a p._n d._n i_o have_v often_o hear_v of_o this_o distinction_n but_o i_o can_v never_o be_v satisfy_v with_o it_o for_o what_o be_v material_a and_o formal_a idolatry_n r._n p._n material_a idolatry_n i_o take_v to_o be_v mistake_v worship_n i._n e._n i_o do_v give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o false_a object_n but_o i_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o give_v it_o to_o a_o false_a object_n of_o worship_n but_o to_o a_o true_a one_o p._n d._n then_o formal_a idolatry_n must_v be_v give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o false_a object_n of_o worship_n know_v it_o to_o be_v a_o false_a object_n and_o where_o be_v there_o any_o such_o idolater_n to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o world_n do_v not_o the_o heathen_n believe_v that_o to_o be_v god_n which_o they_o worship_v and_o be_v not_o god_n a_o true_a object_n of_o worship_n only_o they_o mistake_v that_o to_o be_v god_n which_o be_v not_o and_o so_o be_v only_o material_a idolater_n even_o those_o that_o worship_v their_o image_n for_o god_n be_v only_o mistake_v for_o they_o have_v a_o good_a intention_n only_o to_o worship_n god_n but_o they_o unhappy_o take_v their_o image_n for_o go_n and_o i_o must_v needs_o say_v they_o who_o take_v the_o sun_n moon_n and_o star_n for_o god_n and_o worship_v they_o as_o such_o be_v very_o excusable_a in_o comparison_n of_o those_o who_o take_v a_o piece_n of_o bread_n for_o god_n or_o that_o which_o appear_v like_o it_o r._n p._n you_o be_v very_o severe_a methinks_v but_o do_v you_o think_v there_o be_v no_o difference_n among_o idolater_n p._n d._n yes_o i_o tell_v you_o there_o be_v but_o not_o much_o to_o your_o comfort_n the_o grosser_n man_n erour_n be_v the_o more_o mean_n to_o convince_v man_n of_o it_o the_o more_o wilful_a their_o blindness_n and_o continuance_n in_o it_o the_o more_o culpable_a they_o be_v in_o their_o idolatry_n and_o consequent_o the_o less_o excusable_a r._n p._n but_o may_v not_o a_o man_n innocent_o mistake_v as_o if_o in_o the_o dark_a a_o child_n shall_v ask_v blessing_n of_o one_o that_o be_v not_o his_o father_n will_v his_o father_n have_v reason_n to_o be_v angry_a with_o he_o p._n d._n not_o for_o once_o or_o if_o it_o be_v in_o the_o dark_a but_o if_o he_o shall_v see_v he_o every_o day_n go_v very_o formal_o to_o a_o join_a stool_n in_o the_o hall_n or_o to_o a_o brown_a loaf_n in_o the_o buttery_n and_o there_o very_o solemn_o down_o upon_o his_o knee_n to_o they_o and_o beg_v their_o blessing_n tell_v i_o what_o you_o think_v the_o father_n will_v say_v to_o such_o a_o mistake_n will_v he_o excuse_v he_o say_v alas_o poor_a child_n he_o intend_v all_o this_o to_o i_o only_o he_o mistake_v the_o brown_a loaf_n or_o a_o join_a stool_n for_o i_o r._n p._n forbear_v such_o comparison_n for_o we_o have_v divine_a revelation_n this_o be_v my_o body_n and_o we_o believe_v his_o word_n against_o all_o you_o can_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n p._n d._n but_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o many_o of_o the_o best_a and_o most_o learned_a of_o your_o own_o divine_n you_o have_v not_o divine_a revelation_n for_o it_o and_o that_o those_o word_n can_v prove_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n do_v not_o remain_v after_o consecration_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n we_o now_o inquire_v after_o and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o to_o go_v off_o from_o our_o present_a business_n i_o will_v undertake_v to_o prove_v this_o evident_o to_o you_o r._n p._n however_o we_o have_v the_o authority_n of_o our_o church_n for_o it_o p._n d._n you_o have_v as_o good_a say_v you_o be_v
g._n tell_v dr._n st._n the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n do_v for_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o charge_n he_o say_v the_o church_n of_o england_n remain_v deprive_v of_o the_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o consequent_o the_o authority_n of_o govern_v preach_a and_o adminstr_v the_o sacrament_n which_o those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n challenge_n to_o themselves_o as_o derive_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v be_v no_o true_a and_o lawful_a jurisdiction_n but_o usurp_v and_o antichristian_a etc._n this_o i_o assure_v you_o t._n g._n lay_n great_a weight_n upon_o in_o his_o late_a dialogue_n and_o charge_v he_o with_o ignorance_n and_o tergiversation_n and_o other_o hard_a word_n about_o it_o so_o that_o i_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v in_o his_o defence_n about_o this_o before_o i_o touch_v upon_o the_o other_o consequence_n which_o he_o urge_v upon_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n p._n d._n with_o all_o my_o heart_n there_o be_v two_o thing_n wherein_o the_o force_n of_o t._n g.'s_n argument_n lie_v 1._o that_o which_o he_o call_v his_o undeniable_a maxim_n of_o reason_n viz._n that_o no_o man_n can_v give_v to_o another_o that_o which_o he_o have_v not_o himself_o 2._o that_o idolatry_n lay_v man_n under_o the_o apostle_n excommunication_n and_o therefore_o be_v deprive_v of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v or_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n in_o answer_n to_o these_o two_o thing_n be_v already_o prove_v by_o dr._n st._n 1._o that_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o giver_n do_v not_o hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n 2._o that_o the_o christian_a church_n have_v allow_v the_o lawful_a authority_n of_o give_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n in_o those_o who_o have_v be_v condemn_v for_o idolatry_n which_o he_o prove_v more_o brief_o in_o his_o preface_n and_o at_o large_a in_o his_o last_o book_n from_o the_o case_n of_o the_o arian_n bishop_n and_o now_o let_v any_o one_o judge_n whether_o t._n g._n have_v any_o cause_n to_o hector_n about_o this_o matter_n for_o so_o many_o page_n together_o as_o though_o he_o have_v either_o not_o understand_v or_o not_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o force_n of_o his_o argument_n concern_v his_o undeniable_a maxim_n of_o reason_n he_o observe_v that_o it_o be_v the_o very_a argument_n use_v by_o the_o donatist_n to_o prove_v the_o nullity_n of_o baptism_n among_o heretic_n and_o that_o the_o answer_v give_v by_o the_o church_n be_v that_o the_o instrument_n be_v not_o the_o giver_n but_o the_o first_o institutor_n and_o if_o the_o minister_n keep_v to_o the_o institution_n the_o grace_n of_o the_o sacrament_n may_v be_v convey_v though_o he_o have_v it_o not_o himself_o this_o dr._n st._n think_v very_o pertinent_a to_o show_v that_o where_o power_n and_o authority_n be_v convey_v by_o man_n only_o as_o instrument_n the_o particular_a default_n of_o such_o person_n as_o heresy_n or_o idolatry_n do_v not_o hinder_v the_o derivation_n of_o that_o power_n or_o authority_n to_o they_o and_o this_o he_o prove_v to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o ordination_n of_o heretic_n it_o be_v true_a he_o do_v not_o then_o speak_v to_o authority_n so_o much_o as_o to_o power_n nor_o to_o jurisdiction_n as_o it_o be_v call_v by_o the_o school_n divine_v so_o much_o as_o to_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n but_o he_o proceed_v upon_o a_o parity_n of_o reason_n in_o both_o case_n and_o can_v not_o imagine_v that_o any_o person_n will_v suppose_v the_o christian_a church_n will_v allow_v a_o validity_n of_o order_n without_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v those_o order_n for_o in_o all_o the_o instance_n produce_v by_o he_o from_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a wherein_o undeniable_a example_n be_v bring_v of_o ordination_n of_o heretic_n allow_v by_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o council_n even_o those_o of_o nice_a ephesus_n and_o chalcedon_n it_o be_v apparent_a that_o their_o authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v their_o power_n of_o order_n be_v allow_v as_o well_o as_o their_o ordination_n for_o he_o there_o show_v that_o anatolius_n the_o precedent_n of_o the_o four_o council_n be_v ordain_v by_o dioscorus_n in_o the_o presence_n of_o eutyches_n that_o many_o of_o the_o bishop_n who_o sit_v in_o the_o six_o council_n be_v ordain_v by_o sergius_n pyrrhus_n paulus_n and_o petrus_n who_o in_o that_o council_n be_v declare_v heretic_n and_o do_v t._n g._n in_o earnest_n think_v this_o do_v not_o prove_v they_o have_v lawful_a authority_n what_o become_v then_o of_o the_o authority_n of_o these_o council_n nay_o of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n itself_o when_o tarasius_n there_o say_v as_o dr._n st._n produce_v he_o they_o have_v no_o other_o ordination_n for_o fifty_o year_n together_o do_v this_o prove_v either_o dr._n st.'s_n ignorance_n or_o tergiversation_n be_v not_o this_o rather_o plain_a and_o convince_a evidence_n that_o the_o christian_a church_n do_v allow_v not_o bare_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n by_o heretic_n but_o the_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n which_o he_o likewise_o prove_v by_o the_o greek_a ordination_n allow_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n by_o which_o he_o do_v not_o mean_v the_o validity_n of_o the_o bare_a order_n but_o all_o that_o power_n and_o authority_n which_o be_v consequent_a upon_o they_o for_o can_v any_o man_n be_v so_o senseless_a to_o think_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n only_o allow_v the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n among_o the_o greek_n without_o any_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_v or_o absolve_v what_o mean_v then_o these_o horrible_a clamour_n by_o tg_n of_o dr._n st.'s_n ignorance_n intolerable_a mistake_n shameful_a error_n tergiversation_n and_o what_o not_o because_o he_o speak_v only_o to_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n and_o not_o to_o the_o lawful_a authority_n of_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n whereas_o the_o contrary_a appear_v by_o that_o very_a preface_n about_o which_o these_o outcry_n be_v make_v by_o e._n w._n and_o t._n g._n what_o ingenuity_n be_v to_o be_v expect_v from_o these_o man_n who_o deny_v that_o which_o they_o can_v but_o see_v r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n give_v this_o for_o a_o taste_n 132._o not_o only_o what_o candour_n and_o sincerity_n but_o what_o skill_n in_o church-affair_n you_o be_v to_o expect_v in_o the_o rest_n from_o dr._n st._n which_o sure_o he_o will_v never_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v speak_v to_o the_o point_n p._n d._n you_o may_v think_v as_o you_o please_v of_o he_o i_o only_o tell_v you_o the_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o then_o do_v you_o judge_v where_o the_o candour_n and_o sincerity_n where_o the_o skill_n in_o church_n affair_n lie_v r._n p._n but_o be_v it_o not_o a_o undeniable_a maxim_n that_o no_o man_n can_v give_v to_o another_o that_o which_o he_o have_v not_o himself_o and_o therefore_o it_o lie_v open_a to_o the_o conscience_n of_o every_o man_n that_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guilty_a of_o heresy_n much_o more_o if_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n 134._o it_o fall_v under_o the_o apostle_n excommunication_n gal._n 1.8_o and_o so_o remain_v deprive_v of_o the_o lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o consequent_o the_o authority_n of_o govern_v preach_a etc._n etc._n this_o you_o see_v bid_v fair_a towards_o the_o subversion_n of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n when_o the_o schism_n begin_v because_o excommunicate_v person_n be_v deprive_v of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n themselves_o can_v give_v none_o to_o other_o and_o if_o those_o other_o take_v any_o upon_o they_o it_o must_v be_v usurp_v and_o unlawful_a p._n d._n this_o be_v the_o terrible_a argument_n which_o t._n g._n produce_v again_o in_o triumph_n as_o though_o nothing_o be_v able_a to_o stand_v before_o it_o and_o yet_o in_o my_o mind_n t._n g._n himself_o have_v mighty_o weaken_v it_o by_o yield_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n make_v by_o heretic_n or_o idolater_n for_o if_o no_o man_n can_v give_v that_o which_o he_o have_v not_o how_o can_v those_o give_v power_n and_o authority_n who_o have_v none_o but_o the_o power_n of_o order_n do_v necessary_o carry_v authority_n along_o with_o it_o for_o it_o be_v part_n of_o the_o form_n of_o order_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la 4._o quorum_fw-la remiseritis_fw-la etc._n etc._n so_o that_o a_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v be_v give_v by_o virtue_n of_o the_o very_a form_n of_o order_n and_o your_o divine_n say_v the_o form_n be_v not_o complete_a without_o it_o but_o then_o i_o pray_v resolve_v i_o these_o question_n
be_v not_o a_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v a_o part_n of_o that_o jurisdiction_n which_o t._n g._n do_v distinguish_v from_o the_o bare_a power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n yes_o without_o doubt_n p._n d._n be_v not_o this_o power_n give_v by_o the_o very_a form_n of_o order_n in_o your_o church_n r._n p._n yes_o but_o what_o then_o p._n d._n do_v not_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v the_o character_n be_v imprint_v upon_o say_v those_o word_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la etc._n etc._n r._n p._n what_o will_v you_o be_v at_o p._n d._n be_v the_o character_n of_o order_n give_v by_o word_n that_o signify_v nothing_o and_o carry_v no_o effect_n along_o with_o they_o r._n p._n no_o certain_o p._n d._n then_o these_o word_n have_v their_o effect_n upon_o every_o man_n that_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n and_o what_o then_o p._n d._n then_o every_o one_o who_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n have_v the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v r._n p._n be_v it_o so_o p._n d._n but_o the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v be_v a_o part_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o a_o power_n of_o order_n carry_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n along_o with_o it_o and_o consequent_o valid_a ordination_n must_v suppose_v lawful_a authority_n to_o use_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o absolution_n r._n p._n in_o the_o name_n of_o t._n g._n i_o deny_v that_o p._n d._n hold_v a_o little_a you_o be_v deny_v the_o conclusion_n consider_v again_o what_o you_o deny_v do_v you_o deny_v this_o power_n to_o be_v give_v in_o your_o order_n r._n p._n no._n p._n d._n do_v you_o deny_v this_o power_n to_o be_v part_n of_o jurisdiction_n r._n p._n no._n p._n d._n then_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v give_v wherever_o the_o order_n be_v valid_a r._n p._n this_o can_v be_v for_o t._n g._n complain_v over_o and_o over_o of_o dr._n st.'s_n ignorance_n wilful_a and_o intolerable_a mistake_n unbecoming_a a_o writer_n of_o controversy_n for_o not_o distinguish_v between_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n and_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n which_o he_o will_v never_o have_v do_v if_o one_o have_v carry_v the_o other_o along_o with_o it_o p._n d._n do_v not_o tell_v i_o what_o t.g._n will_v or_o will_v not_o have_v do_v i_o tell_v you_o what_o he_o have_v do_v and_o judge_v you_o now_o with_o what_o advantage_n to_o himself_o r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n be_v again_o up_o with_o his_o undeniable_a maxim_n that_o none_o can_v give_v to_o another_o what_o he_o have_v not_o himself_o 143._o and_o this_o he_o think_v will_v carry_v he_o through_o all_o p._n d._n i_o tell_v you_o that_o very_a maxim_n overthrow_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n as_o he_o apply_v it_o for_o if_o the_o validity_n of_o order_n do_v suppose_v authority_n to_o be_v convey_v and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o such_o authority_n give_v in_o the_o case_n of_o idolatry_n then_o the_o power_n of_o order_n be_v take_v away_o as_o well_o as_o jurisdiction_n beside_o be_v not_o the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n a_o part_n of_o that_o lawful_a authority_n which_o belong_v to_o bishop_n r._n p._n i_o do_v not_o understand_v you_o p._n d._n can_v any_o man_n give_v order_n without_o a_o power_n to_o do_v it_o r._n p._n no._n p._n d._n be_v not_o that_o power_n a_o part_n of_o episcopal_a authority_n r._n p._n yes_o p._n d._n how_o then_o can_v there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o give_v order_n without_o authority_n r._n p._n now_o you_o show_v your_o ignorance_n do_v not_o you_o know_v that_o there_o be_v a_o indelible_a character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o power_n of_o order_n which_o no_o act_n of_o the_o church_n can_v hinder_v a_o bishop_n from_o give_v in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n or_o a_o priest_n from_o receive_v but_o jurisdiction_n be_v quite_o another_o thing_n that_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o church_n or_o rather_o from_o the_o pope_n who_o be_v the_o fountain_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o this_o may_v be_v suspend_v or_o take_v away_o p._n d._n i_o cry_v you_o mercy_n sir_n i_o be_v not_o breed_v up_o in_o your_o school_n this_o may_v be_v currant_n doctrine_n with_o you_o but_o i_o assure_v you_o i_o find_v no_o footstep_n of_o it_o either_o in_o scripture_n or_o father_n and_o if_o i_o be_v not_o much_o misinform_v some_o of_o your_o great_a divine_n be_v of_o my_o mind_n i_o see_v all_o this_o outcry_n of_o t._n g.'s_n concern_v dr._n st._n be_v ignorance_n come_v at_o last_o to_o this_o mystery_n of_o the_o indelible_a character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n which_o make_v ordination_n to_o be_v valid_a but_o give_v no_o authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n i_o pray_v make_v i_o a_o little_a better_o acquaint_v with_o this_o character_n for_o at_o present_a i_o can_v neither_o read_v nor_o understand_v it_o r._n p._n yes_o yes_o this_o you_o will_v be_v always_o at_o to_o make_v we_o explain_v our_o school-notion_n for_o you_o to_o fleer_v and_o to_o mock_v at_o they_o p.d._n but_o this_o i_o perceive_v be_v very_o material_a to_o prevent_v intolerable_a error_n and_o mistake_n and_o for_o all_o that_o you_o know_v i_o may_v come_v to_o be_v a_o writer_n of_o controversy_n and_o then_o i_o will_v not_o be_v hoot_v at_o for_o my_o ignorance_n nor_o have_v the_o boy_n point_v at_o i_o in_o the_o street_n and_o say_v there_o go_v a_o man_n that_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o character_n which_o in_o my_o mind_n will_v sound_v as_o ill_o as_o say_v there_o go_v one_o that_o can_v read_v his_o a._n b._n c._n i_o beseech_v you_o sir_n tell_v i_o what_o this_o indelible_a character_n be_v for_o to_o tell_v you_o truth_n i_o have_v hear_v of_o it_o before_o but_o never_o meet_v with_o one_o who_o can_v tell_v what_o it_o be_v r._n p._n yes_o that_o be_v it_o you_o will_v not_o believe_v a_o thing_n unless_o one_o can_v tell_v you_o what_o it_o be_v why_o it_o be_v a_o mark_n or_o a_o 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the_o first_o or_o the_o second_o or_o the_o three_o or_o four_o kind_n that_o our_o divine_n be_v not_o agree_v upon_o and_o some_o think_v it_o be_v a_o new_a kind_n of_o quality_n nor_o whether_o it_o be_v imprint_v on_o the_o essence_n or_o power_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o if_o in_o the_o faculty_n whether_o in_o the_o understanding_n or_o will_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o to_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v real_o such_o a_o absolute_a indelible_a character_n imprint_v on_o the_o soul_n from_o whence_o that_o sacrament_n can_v never_o be_v reiterated_a which_o do_v imprint_v a_o character_n as_o that_o of_o order_n do_v p._n d._n i_o be_o just_a as_o wise_a by_o all_o this_o account_n as_o i_o be_v before_o for_o the_o only_a reason_n of_o the_o point_n be_v it_o must_v needs_o be_v so_o r._n p._n yes_o the_o church_n have_v declare_v it_o in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o that_o be_v instead_o of_o all_o reason_n to_o we_o p._n d._n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o dr._n st._n must_v he_o be_v upbraid_v with_o ignorance_n error_n and_o tergiversation_n because_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o indelible_a character_n on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n r._n p._n no_o that_o be_v not_o the_o thing_n but_o because_o he_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n p._n d._n be_v you_o sure_a of_o that_o if_o i_o do_v not_o forget_v he_o have_v this_o very_a distinction_n in_o that_o pestilent_a book_n call_v irenicum_fw-la which_o t._n g._n hit_v he_o in_o the_o tooth_n with_o on_o all_o occasion_n r._n p._n but_o he_o do_v not_o or_o will_v not_o understand_v it_o
here_o p._n d._n yes_o he_o know_v it_o well_o enough_o but_o he_o think_v if_o he_o prove_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n he_o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n because_o the_o give_a order_n be_v part_n of_o church_n authority_n and_o authority_n be_v receive_v in_o take_v order_n and_o the_o church_n never_o allow_v one_o but_o it_o allow_v the_o other_o also_o if_o you_o have_v any_o thing_n more_o to_o say_v about_o this_o matter_n i_o be_o willing_a to_o hear_v you_o but_o as_o yet_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o t._n g.'s_n clamour_n about_o such_o a_o mistake_n in_o dr._n st._n for_o i_o think_v the_o mistake_n lie_v near_a home_n r._n p._n but_o e._n w._n public_o reprove_v dr._n st._n for_o this_o mistake_n and_o yet_o after_o that_o he_o go_v on_o to_o confirm_v his_o former_a answer_n with_o new_a proof_n and_o testimony_n etc._n that_o bishop_n ordain_v by_o idolater_n be_v esteem_v valid_o ordain_v and_o do_v not_o speak_v one_o word_n in_o answer_n to_o what_o be_v object_v by_o t._n g._n viz._n that_o the_o english_a bishop_n must_v want_v lawful_a authority_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n if_o their_o first_o ordainer_n be_v idolater_n and_o e._n w._n call_v it_o a_o intolerable_a mistake_n and_o t._n g._n say_v he_o have_v hear_v he_o be_v a_o main_a man_n esteem_v for_o his_o learning_n after_o repeat_v the_o word_n of_o e._n w._n at_o length_n t._n g._n very_o mild_o add_v 155._o as_o if_o he_o be_v whole_o insensible_a of_o the_o gross_a and_o intolerable_a error_n e._n w._n tax_v he_o with_o he_o run_v again_o into_o the_o same_o shameful_a mistake_n but_o say_v t._n g._n be_v the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n and_o lawful_a authority_n to_o give_v they_o 157._o so_o essential_o link_v to_o each_o other_o that_o they_o can_v be_v separate_v may_v not_o a_o bishop_n or_o priest_n remain_v so_o be_v deprive_v of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n to_o exercise_v their_o function_n for_o have_v fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o idolatry_n and_o if_o they_o have_v none_o themselves_o can_v they_o give_v it_o to_o other_o p._n d._n on_o who_o side_n the_o intolerable_a mistake_n lie_v will_v be_v best_a see_v by_o examine_v the_o force_n of_o what_o t._n g._n say_v as_o to_o e._n w._n the_o matter_n be_v not_o great_a which_o lie_v i_o suppose_v in_o this_o that_o those_o who_o do_v fall_v into_o idolatry_n or_o heresy_n may_v ordain_v valid_o for_o say_v he_o from_o estiâ—s_n no_o crime_n or_o censure_v soever_o can_v hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n by_o a_o bishop_n but_o he_o may_v be_v deprive_v of_o any_o lawful_a authority_n to_o do_v it_o and_o therefore_o can_v convey_v this_o lawful_a authority_n to_o other_o ordain_v by_o he_o from_o hence_o t._n g._n say_v no_o crime_n can_v hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n but_o idolatry_n he_o say_v do_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la deprive_v bishop_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o exercise_v order_n or_o convey_v jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n may_v be_v valid_a yet_o their_o jurisdiction_n can_v be_v lawful_a and_o so_o the_o foundation_n of_o their_o authority_n be_v subvert_v by_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v allow_v this_o to_o be_v the_o force_n of_o all_o that_o t._n g._n say_v r._n p._n yes_o now_o you_o have_v hit_v upon_o his_o right_a meaning_n p._n d._n let_v we_o then_o consider_v more_o close_o on_o which_o side_n the_o mistake_n lie_v which_o will_v be_v discern_v by_o this_o whether_o we_o be_v to_o follow_v the_o modern_a school_n or_o the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n in_o this_o matter_n for_o dr._n st._n speak_v according_a to_o the_o sense_n and_o practice_n of_o antiquity_n and_o t._n g._n according_a to_o the_o modern_a notion_n and_o distinction_n of_o their_o school_n it_o be_v true_a their_o schoolman_n have_v so_o distinguish_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n that_o they_o make_v the_o one_o to_o depend_v upon_o a_o indelible_a unintelligible_a character_n which_o no_o crime_n can_v hinder_v have_v its_o valid_a effect_n but_o that_o jurisdiction_n or_o the_o right_n of_o excommunication_n and_o absolution_n may_v be_v suspend_v or_o take_v away_o since_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n and_o trent_n this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o indelible_a character_n give_v in_o order_n be_v not_o to_o be_v dispute_v among_o they_o and_o therefore_o they_o hold_v the_o character_n to_o remain_v wherever_o order_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o due_a form_n but_o then_o they_o say_v this_o character_n be_v capable_a of_o such_o restraint_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n that_o it_o remain_v like_o aristotle_n first_o matter_n a_o dull_a and_o unactive_a thing_n till_o the_o church_n give_v a_o new_a form_n to_o it_o and_o this_o they_o call_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n but_o that_o all_o this_o be_v new_a doctrine_n in_o the_o church_n and_o a_o late_a monkish_a invention_n will_v appear_v by_o these_o consideration_n 1._o how_o long_o it_o be_v before_o this_o doctrine_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o church_n by_o the_o confession_n of_o their_o own_o schoolman_n scotus_n and_o biel_n and_o cajetan_a 1._o no_o inconsiderable_a man_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v confess_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n can_v neither_o be_v prove_v from_o scripture_n nor_o father_n but_o only_o from_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o not_o very_o ancient_a neither_o 4._o and_o morinus_n take_v notice_n that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v by_o p._n lombard_n or_o hugo_n de_fw-fr sancto_fw-la victore_fw-la although_o they_o debate_v those_o very_a question_n which_o will_v have_v require_v their_o express_v it_o if_o they_o have_v know_v any_o thing_n of_o it_o 2._o how_o many_o of_o their_o schoolman_n who_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o character_n of_o priesthood_n yet_o make_v the_o power_n of_o order_n to_o belong_v to_o jurisdiction_n so_o albertus_n magnus_n and_o other_o cite_v by_o morinus_n but_o alex._n alensis_n carry_v this_o point_n so_o far_o that_o he_o say_v that_o because_o of_o the_o indelible_a character_n of_o priesthood_n the_o power_n can_v never_o be_v take_v from_o a_o priest_n but_o only_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o 2._o but_o in_o a_o bishop_n there_o be_v no_o new_a character_n imprint_v and_o therefore_o in_o the_o degrade_n he_o not_o only_o the_o execution_n but_o the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n be_v take_v away_o and_o scotus_n say_v if_o a_o bishop_n be_v excommunicate_v 3_o he_o lose_v the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n if_o episcopacy_n be_v not_o a_o distinct_a order_n as_o you_o know_v many_o of_o the_o schoolman_n hold_v and_o morinus_n grant_v 13._o that_o if_o episcopacy_n be_v not_o a_o distinct_a order_n but_o a_o large_a commission_n the_o power_n of_o bishop_n may_v be_v so_o limit_v by_o the_o church_n as_o not_o only_o to_o hinder_v they_o from_o a_o lawful_a authority_n but_o from_o a_o power_n of_o act_v so_o that_o what_o they_o do_v carry_v no_o validity_n along_o with_o it_o 3._o how_o many_o before_o the_o day_n of_o the_o schoolman_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n do_v take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o order_n gratian_n hold_v it_o most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n that_o a_o bishop_n degrade_v have_v no_o power_n to_o give_v order_n 97._o although_o he_o have_v to_o baptise_v only_o for_o s._n augustine_n sake_n he_o think_v they_o may_v distinguish_v between_o the_o power_n and_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o gul._n parisiensis_fw-la say_v that_o bishop_n depose_v can_v confer_v no_o order_n 7._o because_o the_o church_n have_v the_o same_o power_n in_o take_v away_o which_o it_o have_v in_o give_v and_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o take_v away_o their_o power_n if_o what_o t._n g._n assert_n have_v be_v always_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n i_o desire_v he_o to_o resolve_v i_o these_o question_n 1._o why_o pope_n lucius_n 3_o do_v re-ordain_a those_o who_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o octavianus_n the_o antipope_n 2._o why_o vrban_n 2._o declare_v nezelon_n or_o wecilo_n a_o excommunicate_a bishop_n of_o mentz_n to_o have_v no_o power_n of_o give_v order_n and_o that_o upon_o t._n g.'s_n own_o maxim_n that_o which_o a_o man_n have_v not_o he_o can_v give_v to_o another_o because_o he_o be_v ordain_v by_o heretic_n 3._o why_o the_o synod_n of_o quintilinberg_n under_o greg._n 7._o declare_v all_o ordination_n to_o be_v null_a which_o be_v make_v by_o excommunicate_v bishop_n 4._o why_o leo_n 9_o in_o a_o synod_n void_v all_o simoniacal_a ordination_n 5._o why_o stephanus_n 6._o re-ordained_n those_o which_o be_v ordain_v by_o formosus_fw-la 6._o
why_o hincmarus_n re-ordained_n those_o who_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o ebbo_n because_o he_o have_v be_v depose_v 7._o why_o stephanus_n 4._o re-ordained_n those_o who_o have_v receive_v order_n from_o pope_n constantine_n 8._o why_o the_o ordination_n make_v by_o photius_n be_v declare_v null_n to_o name_v no_o more_o if_o this_o have_v be_v always_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n that_o the_o power_n of_o order_n be_v indelible_a but_o not_o that_o of_o jurisdiction_n i_o desire_v t._n g._n to_o give_v a_o answer_n to_o those_o question_n which_o i_o fear_v will_v involve_v several_a head_n of_o his_o church_n under_o that_o which_o he_o call_v in_o dr._n st._n a_o intolerable_a mistake_n do_v so_o many_o pope_n know_v no_o better_o this_o distinction_n between_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n and_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o be_o sorry_a to_o see_v t._n g._n so_o magisterial_a and_o confident_a so_o insult_v over_o dr._n st._n as_o betray_v so_o much_o ignorance_n as_o do_v not_o become_v a_o writer_n of_o controversy_n when_o all_o the_o while_n he_o do_v only_o expose_v his_o own_o but_o alas_o this_o be_v the_o current_a divinity_n of_o the_o modern_a school_n and_o what_o oblige_v they_o to_o look_v into_o the_o opinion_n of_o former_a age_n yet_o methinks_v a_o man_n have_v need_v to_o look_v about_o he_o before_o he_o upbraid_v another_o with_o gross_a and_o intolerable_a error_n lest_o at_o the_o same_o time_n he_o prove_v the_o guilty_a person_n and_o then_o the_o charge_n fall_v back_o far_o more_o heavy_o on_o himself_o 4._o those_o who_o do_v hold_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n do_v it_o chief_o on_o the_o account_n of_o the_o due_a form_n that_o be_v observe_v whoever_o the_o person_n be_v whether_o heretic_n or_o excommunicated-person_n for_o after_o all_o the_o heat_n and_o dispute_v which_o happen_v in_o the_o church_n about_o this_o matter_n the_o best_a way_n they_o find_v to_o resolve_v it_o be_v to_o observe_v the_o same_o course_n which_o the_o church_n have_v do_v in_o the_o baptism_n of_o heretic_n viz._n to_o allow_v that_o baptism_n which_o be_v administer_v in_o due_a form_n although_o those_o who_o administer_v it_o be_v heretic_n thence_o praepositivus_fw-la as_o he_o be_v quote_v by_o morinus_n say_v 3._o that_o a_o heretic_n have_v power_n to_o administer_v all_o the_o sacrament_n as_o long_o as_o he_o observe_v the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o only_o such_o a_o one_o as_o receive_v episcopal_a order_n in_o the_o church_n himself_o but_o those_o who_o do_v derive_v a_o succession_n from_o such_o as_o appear_v from_o tarasius_n in_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a where_o he_o say_v that_o five_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n successive_o be_v heretic_n and_o yet_o their_o ordination_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o church_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n speak_v other_o who_o be_v there_o produce_v by_o the_o same_o learned_a author_n let_v these_o consideration_n be_v lay_v together_o and_o the_o result_n will_v be_v 1._o either_o dr._n st._n be_v not_o guilty_a of_o a_o intolerable_a error_n and_o mistake_n in_o this_o matter_n or_o so_o many_o infallible_a head_n of_o the_o church_n be_v guilty_a of_o the_o same_o 2._o it_o be_v believe_v for_o some_o age_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n do_v take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o order_n 3._o t._n g.'s_n distinction_n as_o to_o the_o foundation_n of_o it_o in_o the_o indelible_a character_n of_o order_n be_v a_o novel_a thing_n and_o acknowledge_v by_o their_o own_o divine_n to_o have_v no_o foundation_n either_o in_o scripture_n or_o father_n 4._o the_o ground_n assign_v by_o those_o who_o hold_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n by_o heretic_n will_v hold_v for_o the_o authority_n of_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n if_o not_o actual_o take_v away_o by_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n for_o every_o man_n have_v the_o power_n which_o be_v give_v he_o till_o it_o be_v take_v from_o he_o every_o one_o that_o receive_v order_n according_a to_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n have_v a_o power_n give_v he_o to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v therefore_o every_o such_o person_n do_v enjoy_v that_o power_n till_o it_o be_v take_v from_o he_o for_o as_o i_o have_v already_o show_v this_o be_v part_n of_o the_o form_n of_o order_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la quorum_fw-la remiseritis_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n determine_v the_o character_n to_o be_v imprint_v upon_o the_o use_n of_o these_o word_n 4._o therefore_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v convey_v by_o the_o due_a form_n of_o order_n from_o whence_o it_o unavoidable_o follow_v that_o every_o one_o who_o have_v have_v the_o due_a form_n of_o order_n have_v have_v this_o power_n convey_v to_o he_o and_o what_o power_n he_o have_v he_o must_v enjoy_v till_o it_o be_v take_v away_o r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v that_o excommunication_n by_o the_o apostle_n sentence_n do_v it_o gal._n 1.8_o p._n d._n this_o be_v indeed_o a_o piece_n of_o new_a doctrine_n and_o a_o fruit_n of_o t._n g.'s_n mother-wit_n and_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v he_o receive_v neither_o from_o schoolman_n nor_o father_n for_o it_o involve_v such_o mischievous_a consequence_n in_o it_o as_o real_o overthrow_v all_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n for_o by_o this_o supposition_n in_o case_n any_o bishop_n fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o idolatry_n he_o be_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la excommunicate_v by_o st._n paul_n be_v sentence_n and_o consequent_o have_v no_o authority_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o so_o all_o who_o derive_v their_o power_n from_o he_o have_v no_o lawful_a authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n i_o do_v wonder_n in_o all_o this_o time_n t._n g._n do_v no_o better_o reflect_v upon_o this_o assertion_n and_o the_o consequence_n of_o it_o and_o rather_o to_o thank_v dr._n st._n that_o he_o take_v no_o more_o notice_n of_o it_o than_o upbraid_v he_o with_o intolerable_a error_n and_o mistake_n i_o will_v put_v a_o plain_a case_n to_o you_o to_o show_v you_o the_o ill_a consequence_n of_o this_o assertion_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n itself_o dr._n st._n have_v prove_v by_o undeniable_a evidence_n that_o the_o arian_n be_v look_v on_o and_o condemn_v as_o idolater_n by_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o t._n g._n do_v not_o deny_v it_o and_o what_o now_o if_o we_o find_v a_o arian_n among_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o from_o who_o the_o succession_n be_v derive_v he_o must_v stand_v excommunicate_v by_o virtue_n of_o the_o apostle_n sentence_n and_o therefore_o have_v no_o authority_n to_o give_v order_n and_o so_o all_o the_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v lose_v the_o case_n i_o mean_v be_v that_o of_o liberius_n who_o show_v himself_o as_o much_o a_o arian_n as_o any_o of_o the_o arian_n bishop_n do_v for_o he_o subscribe_v their_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o join_v in_o communion_n with_o they_o 4._o st._n hierom_n say_v more_o than_o once_o that_o he_o subscribe_v to_o heresy_n the_o pontifical_a book_n say_v he_o communicate_v with_o heretic_n marcellinus_n and_o faustinus_n say_v that_o he_o renounce_v the_o faith_n by_o his_o subscription_n yea_o more_o than_o this_o hilary_n denounce_v a_o anathema_n against_o he_o and_o all_o that_o join_v with_o he_o 46._o and_o baronius_n confess_v he_o do_v communicate_v with_o the_o arian_n which_o be_v suffient_fw-la to_o our_o purpose_n then_o come_v t._n g._n upon_o he_o with_o st._n paul_n be_v sentence_n of_o excommunication_n and_o so_o he_o lose_v all_o authority_n of_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o consequent_o that_o authority_n which_o be_v challenge_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v derive_v from_o he_o be_v all_o lose_v and_o now_o judge_v who_o subvert_v the_o foundation_n of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n most_o t._n g._n or_o dr._n st._n yet_o it_o fall_v out_o unhappy_o that_o pet._n damiani_n mention_n these_o very_a ordination_n of_o liberius_n the_o heretic_n so_o he_o call_v he_o to_o show_v how_o the_o church_n do_v allow_v ordination_n make_v by_o heretic_n 16._o but_o this_o be_v not_o all_o for_o by_o all_o that_o i_o can_v find_v if_o this_o principle_n of_o t._n g._n be_v allow_v no_o man_n can_v be_v sure_a there_o be_v any_o lawful_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n leave_v in_o the_o world_n for_o who_o can_v tell_v what_o secret_a idolater_n or_o heretic_n there_o may_v be_v among_o those_o bishop_n from_o who_o that_o authority_n be_v derive_v this_o we_o be_v sure_a of_o that_o the_o arian_n bishop_n possess_v most_o of_o the_o eastern_a church_n and_o make_v ordination_n there_o terminatam_fw-la and_o the_o western_a bishop_n in_o the_o council_n of_o ariminum_n do_v certain_o comply_v with_o they_o
as_o be_v now_o plain_a from_o marcellinus_n and_o faustinus_n who_o book_n be_v publish_v by_o sirmondus_n at_o paris_n where_o sulpitius_n severus_n say_v more_o than_o four_o hundred_o western_a bishop_n be_v present_a who_o be_v all_o excommunicate_v by_o t._n g.'s_n principle_n and_o what_o now_o become_v of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n but_o dr._n st._n have_v show_v that_o the_o christian_a church_n be_v wise_a than_o to_o proceed_v upon_o t._n g.'s_n principle_n prove_v from_o authentic_a testimony_n of_o antiquity_n that_o the_o arian_n ordination_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o church_n although_o the_o arian_n be_v condemn_v for_o idolater_n r._n p._n 157._o yes_o t._n g._n say_v that_o dr._n st._n be_v resolve_v to_o go_v on_o in_o the_o same_o tract_n still_o and_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o act_n itself_o of_o ordination_n be_v not_o invalid_a in_o case_n of_o the_o idolatry_n of_o the_o giver_n which_o be_v never_o deny_v by_o his_o adversary_n p._n d._n how_o be_v it_o possible_a to_o satisfy_v man_n who_o be_v resolve_v to_o cavil_v do_v not_o dr._n st._n by_o that_o instance_n of_o the_o arian_n bishop_n evident_o prove_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o give_v order_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o christian_a church_n at_o that_o time_n and_o that_o which_o he_o call_v their_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o power_n of_o order_n because_o nothing_o more_o be_v require_v from_o the_o arian_n bishop_n but_o renounce_v arianism_n and_o subscribe_v the_o nicene_n creed_n and_o thus_o for_o all_o that_o i_o can_v see_v by_o t._n g.'s_n principle_n they_o still_o remain_v under_o st._n paul_n excommunication_n and_o so_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n be_v all_o go_v with_o they_o r._n p._n but_o do_v not_o you_o think_v that_o dr._n st._n have_v some_o secret_a design_n in_o all_o this_o real_o to_o subvert_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o t.g._n lay_v together_o several_a notable_a thing_n to_o that_o purpose_n to_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o he_o purposely_o decline_v 161._o defend_v the_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o assure_v you_o it_o be_v a_o very_a politic_a discourse_n and_o have_v several_a deep_a fetch_n in_o it_o first_o he_o begin_v with_o his_o irenicum_fw-la and_o there_o he_o lay_v the_o foundation_n that_o the_o government_n may_v be_v change_v 2._o the_o book_n be_v reprint_v since_o the_o bishop_n be_v reestablish_v by_o law_n 3._o he_o persuade_v the_o bishop_n in_o that_o book_n to_o reduce_v the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n to_o its_o primitive_a state_n and_o order_n by_o restore_a presbytery_n under_o they_o etc._n etc._n 4._o when_o this_o will_v not_o do_v he_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n and_o make_v this_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o make_v she_o contribute_v to_o the_o subversion_n of_o her_o own_o authority_n 5._o when_o t._n g._n tell_v he_o of_o the_o consequence_n of_o this_o he_o pass_v it_o by_o as_o if_o he_o see_v it_o not_o and_o trifle_v with_o his_o adversary_n about_o the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n 6._o when_o e._n w._n endeavour_v to_o bring_v he_o to_o this_o point_n he_o still_o decline_v it_o and_o leave_v episcopacy_n to_o shift_v for_o itself_o and_o after_o all_o these_o t._n g._n think_v he_o have_v find_v out_o the_o mole_n that_o work_v under_o ground_n p._n d._n a_o very_a great_a discovery_n i_o assure_v you_o and_o t._n g._n deserve_v a_o great_a reward_n than_o any_o common_a molecatcher_n do_v but_o i_o never_o like_v such_o politic_a informer_n for_o if_o people_n be_v more_o dull_a and_o quiet_a than_o they_o will_v have_v they_o they_o make_v plot_n for_o they_o to_o keep_v up_o their_o reputation_n and_o interest_n they_o must_v have_v always_o something_o to_o whisper_v in_o great_a man_n ear_n and_o to_o fill_v their_o head_n with_o design_n which_o be_v never_o think_v of_o by_o which_o mean_n they_o torment_v they_o with_o unreasonable_a suspicion_n and_o tyrannize_v over_o they_o under_o a_o pretence_n of_o kindness_n just_o thus_o do_v t._n g._n do_v by_o the_o governor_n of_o our_o church_n he_o will_v fain_o persuade_v they_o that_o there_o be_v one_o dr._n st._n who_o have_v undertake_v to_o defend_v the_o church_n but_o do_v carry_v on_o a_o very_a secret_a and_o subtle_a design_n to_o ruin_n and_o destroy_v it_o if_o they_o say_v they_o do_v not_o believe_v it_o he_o seem_v to_o pity_v they_o for_o their_o incredulity_n and_o weakness_n and_o endeavour_n to_o convince_v they_o by_o a_o long_a train_n of_o his_o own_o invention_n and_o if_o they_o be_v so_o easy_a to_o hearken_v to_o it_o and_o to_o regard_v his_o insinuation_n than_o he_o flatter_v and_o applaud_v they_o as_o the_o only_a friend_n to_o the_o church_n when_o in_o the_o meantime_n he_o real_o laugh_v at_o they_o as_o a_o sort_n of_o weak_a man_n who_o can_v be_v impose_v upon_o by_o any_o man_n who_o pretend_v to_o be_v a_o friend_n although_o even_o in_o that_o he_o do_v they_o and_o the_o church_n the_o great_a mischief_n i_o can_v believe_v such_o kind_n of_o insinuation_n as_o these_o can_v prevail_v upon_o any_o one_o man_n of_o understanding_n in_o our_o church_n against_o a_o person_n who_o have_v at_o least_o endeavour_v his_o utmost_a to_o defend_v it_o but_o since_o t._n g._n talk_v so_o politic_o about_o these_o matter_n i_o will_v convince_v you_o by_o one_o argument_n of_o common_a prudence_n that_o if_o dr._n st._n be_v a_o man_n of_o common_a sense_n much_o more_o if_o he_o be_v so_o politic_a and_o design_v as_o t._n g._n represent_v he_o all_o these_o suggestion_n must_v be_v both_o false_a and_o foolish_a for_o that_o which_o all_o design_v man_n aim_v at_o be_v their_o own_o interest_n and_o advantage_n now_o can_v any_o man_n that_o have_v common_a sense_n leave_v in_o he_o imagine_v that_o dr._n st._n can_v aim_v at_o any_o great_a advantage_n by_o ruine_v the_o church_n than_o by_o preserve_v it_o be_v not_o his_o circumstance_n more_o considerable_a in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o ever_o he_o can_v hope_v they_o shall_v be_v if_o it_o be_v destroy_v they_o who_o will_v persuade_v other_o that_o he_o carry_v on_o such_o a_o secret_a design_n must_v suppose_v he_o to_o be_v next_o to_o a_o idiot_n and_o such_o be_v not_o very_o dangerous_a politician_n but_o what_o be_v it_o then_o shall_v make_v he_o act_v so_o much_o against_o his_o interest_n it_o can_v be_v nothing_o but_o folly_n or_o malice_n but_o i_o do_v not_o find_v they_o have_v tax_v he_o of_o any_o malice_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o of_o any_o occasion_n for_o it_o which_o the_o church_n have_v give_v he_o if_o he_o be_v dispose_v to_o it_o why_o then_o shall_v any_o be_v so_o senseless_a themselves_o or_o suppose_v other_o to_o be_v so_o as_o to_o go_v about_o to_o possess_v man_n with_o a_o opinion_n of_o a_o underground_n plot_n dr._n st._n be_v carry_v on_o not_o only_o to_o blow_v up_o the_o thames_n but_o the_o rise_a fabric_n of_o st._n paul_n too_o i._n e._n to_o ruin_n and_o destroy_v himself_o if_o he_o be_v a_o fool_n he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v fear_v if_o he_o be_v not_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v mistrust_v r.p._n but_o what_o say_v you_o to_o t._n g.'s_n proof_n do_v you_o observe_v the_o several_a molehill_n which_o he_o have_v cast_v up_o and_o be_v not_o that_o a_o sign_n he_o work_v un-derground_a what_o say_v you_o to_o his_o irenicum_fw-la in_o the_o first_o place_n p._n d._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o free_o i_o believe_v there_o be_v many_o thing_n in_o it_o which_o if_o dr._n st._n be_v to_o write_v now_o he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v for_o there_o be_v some_o thing_n which_o show_v his_o youth_n and_o want_v of_o due_a consideration_n other_o which_o he_o yield_v too_o far_o in_o hope_n of_o gain_v the_o dissent_v party_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o upon_o the_o whole_a matter_n i_o be_o full_o satisfy_v the_o book_n be_v write_v with_o a_o design_n to_o serve_v the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o the_o design_n of_o it_o i_o take_v to_o be_v this_o that_o among_o we_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o enter_v upon_o nice_a and_o subtle_a dispute_n about_o a_o strict_a jus_o divinum_fw-la of_o episcopacy_n such_o as_o make_v all_o other_o form_n of_o government_n unlawful_a but_o it_o be_v sufficient_a for_o we_o if_o it_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v the_o most_o ancient_a and_o agreeable_a to_o apostolical_a practice_n and_o most_o accommodate_v to_o our_o law_n and_o civil_a government_n and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o pretence_n against_o submit_v to_o it_o but_o the_o demonstrate_v its_o unlawfulness_n which_o he_o know_v be_v impossible_a to_o be_v do_v and_o for_o what_o
proposal_n he_o make_v about_o temper_v episcopacy_n they_o be_v no_o other_o than_o what_o king_n charles_n 1._o and_o mr._n thorndike_n have_v make_v before_o he_o and_o do_v t._n g._n think_v they_o design_v to_o ruin_v the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o as_o long_o as_o he_o declare_v this_o to_o be_v the_o design_n of_o his_o book_n both_o at_o the_o beginning_n and_o conclusion_n of_o it_o suppose_v he_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o mean_v he_o take_v must_v such_o a_o man_n be_v present_o condemn_v as_o one_o that_o aim_v at_o the_o ruin_n and_o destruction_n of_o the_o church_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v he_o tender_v it_o to_o consideration_n after_o episcopacy_n be_v resettled_a by_o law_n p._n d._n that_o be_v as_o true_a as_o other_o of_o his_o suggestion_n the_o book_n be_v print_v while_o thing_n be_v unsettle_a and_o be_v intend_v to_o remove_v the_o violent_a prejudices_fw-la of_o the_o dissent_v party_n against_o episcopal_a government_n and_o i_o have_v hear_v do_v considerable_a service_n that_o way_n at_o least_o in_o a_o neighbour_n kingdom_n and_o it_o happen_v to_o be_v reprint_v afterward_o with_o the_o same_o title_n it_o have_v before_o but_o what_o then_o do_v not_o bookseller_n look_v on_o book_n as_o their_o own_o and_o do_v what_o they_o please_v with_o they_o without_o the_o author_n consent_n or_o approbation_n have_v he_o ever_o preach_v or_o write_v any_o doctrine_n since_o contrary_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v he_o make_v any_o party_n or_o faction_n to_o the_o disturbance_n of_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n have_v he_o not_o conform_v to_o its_o rule_n observe_v its_o office_n obey_v his_o superior_n and_o be_v ready_a to_o defend_v its_o cause_n against_o adversary_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o can_v malice_n itself_o after_o all_o this_o fasten_v such_o a_o calumny_n upon_o he_o that_o he_o be_v a_o secret_a enemy_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o design_n to_o ruin_n and_o destroy_v it_o i_o remember_v a_o poor_a englishman_n in_o amboyna_n be_v cruel_o torment_v by_o the_o dutch_a and_o find_v nothing_o he_o can_v say_v will_v persuade_v his_o tormentor_n to_o release_v he_o and_o he_o say_v any_o thing_n that_o he_o think_v will_v prevail_v with_o they_o at_o last_o he_o pray_v god_n that_o he_o may_v tell_v they_o probable_a lie_n i_o will_v advise_v t._n g._n the_o next_o time_n he_o go_v a_o mole-catching_a to_o find_v out_o probable_a plot_n otherwise_o he_o will_v lose_v all_o the_o reputation_n of_o a_o informer_n and_o discoverer_n but_o i_o can_v hardly_o tell_v whether_o his_o plot_n or_o his_o proof_n be_v the_o worse_o for_o as_o there_o appear_v no_o likelihood_n in_o the_o plot_n so_o there_o be_v no_o evidence_n in_o the_o proof_n there_o be_v nothing_o pretend_v since_o the_o irenicum_fw-la but_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n and_o that_o have_v be_v sufficient_o clear_v already_o by_o show_v that_o it_o do_v not_o subvert_v the_o authority_n 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to_o the_o point_n of_o idolatry_n itself_o r._n p._n hold_v a_o little_a you_o be_v still_o too_o quick_a i_o have_v something_o more_o yet_o to_o say_v to_o you_o before_o we_o come_v to_o it_o p._n d._n what_o be_v that_o r._n p._n i_o have_v a_o great_a deal_n to_o tell_v you_o out_o of_o mr._n thorndikes_n just_a weight_n and_o measure_n 113._o about_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n and_o the_o mischievous_a consequence_n of_o it_o p._n d._n to_o what_o end_n shall_v you_o repeat_v all_o that_o i_o begin_v to_o think_v you_o be_v not_o in_o jest_n when_o you_o say_v t._n g._n put_v in_o some_o thing_n to_o fill_v up_o his_o book_n dr._n st._n have_v before_o declare_v the_o great_a esteem_n he_o have_v for_o mr._n thorndikes_n learning_n and_o piety_n but_o in_o this_o particular_a he_o declare_v that_o he_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o recede_v from_o the_o common_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n on_o the_o account_n of_o mr._n thorndikes_n authority_n or_o argument_n 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i_o say_v in_o this_o case_n the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n help_v nothing_o for_o they_o who_o do_v follow_v the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n must_v do_v one_o or_o the_o other_o of_o these_o and_o whichsoever_o they_o do_v they_o be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n and_o therefore_o dr._n st._n have_v great_a reason_n to_o say_v where_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o do_v the_o thing_n the_o best_a way_n to_o avoid_v idolatry_n be_v to_o give_v no_o worship_n to_o image_n at_o all_o r._n p._n 266._o what_o will_v become_v of_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n say_v t._n g._n if_o man_n may_v be_v permit_v to_o break_v they_o for_o such_o caprice_n as_o these_o be_v p._n d._n be_v you_o in_o earnest_n do_v t._n g._n call_v these_o caprice_n idolatry_n be_v account_v both_o by_o father_n and_o schoolman_n a_o crime_n of_o the_o high_a nature_n and_o when_o i_o be_o tell_v i_o must_v commit_v it_o one_o way_n or_o other_o by_o your_o divine_n if_o i_o give_v worship_n to_o image_n 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idolatry_n of_o the_o heathen_n consist_v only_o in_o worship_v the_o devil_n 276._o whereas_o it_o appear_v from_o the_o word_n dr._n st._n cite_v out_o of_o he_o that_o he_o charge_v the_o heathen_n with_o idolatry_n in_o worship_v their_o image_n for_o god_n and_o the_o creature_n for_o god_n although_o withal_o they_o worship_v evil_a spirit_n and_o t._n g._n contend_v that_o their_o supreme_a god_n be_v a_o arch-devil_n p._n d._n be_v this_o such_o a_o difficulty_n to_o be_v set_v in_o the_o front_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v only_o to_o try_v whether_o i_o will_v stumble_v at_o the_o threshold_n if_o the_o supreme_a god_n who_o the_o heathen_n worship_v be_v a_o arch-devil_n as_o t._n g._n
learning_n be_v in_o esteem_n in_o a_o place_n but_o here_o a_o man_n that_o intend_v a_o library_n buy_v all_o sort_n of_o book_n and_o that_o make_v your_o trader_n in_o book_n bring_v over_o from_o all_o part_n and_o of_o all_o kind_n and_o when_o they_o have_v they_o in_o their_o hand_n they_o make_v the_o buyer_n pay_v for_o their_o curiosity_n in_o italy_n it_o be_v a_o rare_a thing_n to_o meet_v with_o a_o greek_a book_n in_o the_o shop_n in_o spain_n you_o see_v nothing_o almost_o beside_o prayer-book_n novel_n and_o school-divinity_n at_o antwerp_n and_o lion_n school-divinity_n and_o life_n of_o the_o saint_n be_v most_o sold._n at_o paris_n indeed_o there_o be_v great_a variety_n but_o we_o observe_v it_o abroad_o that_o in_o the_o best_a catholic_n country_n learning_n be_v in_o least_o esteem_n as_o in_o spain_n and_o italy_n and_o where_o learning_n be_v more_o in_o vogue_n as_o in_o france_n you_o see_v how_o ready_a they_o be_v to_o quarrel_v with_o the_o pope_n and_o 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