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69._o p._n 69._o thorndyke_n can_v support_v it_o well_o what_o say_v mr._n thorndyke_n the_o answerer_n tell_v we_o first_o of_o a_o certain_a answer_n to_o one_o t._n g._n in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o if_o the_o church_n i_o suppose_v he_o mean_v the_o english_a church_n do_v ever_o pray_v the_o flesh_n and_o blood_n may_v be_v substitute_v instead_o of_o the_o element_n under_o the_o accident_n of_o they_o which_o be_v plain_a transubstantiation_n than_o he_o be_v content_v to_o call_v this_o the_o sacramental_a presence_n of_o they_o in_o the_o eucharist_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o purpose_n he_o than_o tell_v we_o 70._o p._n 70._o that_o mr._n thorndyke_n have_v a_o particular_a notion_n in_o this_o matter_n and_o a_o long_a story_n in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o deny_v transubstantiation_n we_o do_v not_o affirm_v it_o of_o he_o and_o at_o last_o a_o great_a way_n off_o in_o p._n 90._o he_o put_v bishop_n forbes_n and_o the_o archbishop_n of_o spalleto_n into_o a_o sack_n together_o and_o make_v they_o as_o errand_n knave_n in_o a_o reconcile_a way_n as_o his_o protestant_a minister_n who_o just_a before_o he_o mention_n but_o with_o this_o difference_n the_o protestant_a minister_n only_o dissemble_v his_o own_o opinion_n that_o be_v conceal_v it_o but_o these_o two_o great_a man_n have_v strenuous_o defend_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o not_o by_o consequence_n but_o positive_o a_o adoration_n due_a when_o as_o our_o answerer_n will_v persuade_v we_o that_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o real_a presence_n but_o do_v believe_v the_o adoration_n of_o it_o to_o be_v idolatry_n that_o a_o pacific_a design_n and_o a_o charitable_a undertake_n may_v engage_v some_o man_n to_o relax_v somewhat_o of_o ceremony_n or_o discipline_n i_o neither_o wonder_v at_o nor_o censure_n but_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v any_o justifiable_a cause_n to_o oblige_v man_n witting_o and_o willing_o to_o profess_v and_o teach_v idolatry_n be_v i_o confess_v 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be_v worthy_a to_o have_v carry_v mr._n thorndykes_n paper_n after_o he_o at_o least_o as_o far_o as_o i_o may_v judge_v by_o these_o twenty_o two_o sheet_n you_o will_v have_v write_v much_o less_o and_o yet_o much_o more_o to_o the_o purpose_n thus_o reverend_a father_n i_o have_v give_v you_o a_o taste_n of_o this_o fresh_a author_n i_o fear_v it_o have_v not_o prove_v a_o boccone_n saporito_n but_o it_o be_v necessary_a in_o vindication_n of_o my_o testimony_n and_o by_o consequence_n of_o that_o learned_a oxford_n discourser_n upon_o who_o authority_n i_o produce_v they_o beg_v your_o pardon_n then_o for_o this_o digression_n i_o return_v to_o my_o first_o discourser_n if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n in_o a_o literal_a sense_n be_v believe_v from_o the_o primitive_a time_n to_o this_o great_a council_n of_o lateran_n let_v we_o consider_v whether_o this_o council_n exceed_v its_o just_a authority_n or_o introduce_v any_o erroneous_a 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afterward_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n who_o among_o other_o thing_n have_v these_o word_n this_o faith_n speak_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n the_o church_n which_o be_v spread_v over_o the_o whole_a world_n be_v call_v catholic_n now_o hold_v and_o have_v hold_v from_o the_o primitive_a time_n but_o you_o say_v be_v to_o berengarius_fw-la believe_v that_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n of_o our_o lord_n table_n remain_v unchanged_a as_o to_o their_o substance_n after_o consecration_n etc._n etc._n if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o you_o believe_v and_o maintain_v concern_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n then_o that_o be_v false_a which_o be_v believe_v and_o teach_v of_o it_o by_o the_o church_n over_o the_o whole_a world_n for_o as_o many_o as_o own_o the_o name_n of_o christian_n and_o be_v real_o such_o do_v profess_v that_o in_o the_o sacrament_n they_o receive_v the_o true_a flesh_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o true_a blood_n 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thing_n in_o the_o world_n our_o discourser_n tell_v we_o of_o one_o john_n scotus_n and_o ratramnus_n and_o i_o know_v not_o who_o write_v i_o know_v not_o what_o against_o this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n at_o least_o according_a to_o his_o interpretation_n though_o i_o know_v many_o catholic_n understand_v some_o of_o they_o in_o a_o very_a orthodox_n sense_n but_o to_o i_o it_o seem_v as_o impertinent_a to_o bring_v two_o or_o three_o private_a person_n advance_v their_o private_a opinion_n against_o the_o concurrent_a testimony_n of_o all_o author_n prior_n present_a and_o other_o since_o they_o write_v posterior_n to_o they_o beside_o the_o definition_n and_o decree_n of_o general_a council_n as_o it_o will_v be_v among_o we_o to_o produce_v the_o authority_n of_o john_n milton_n and_o junius_n brutus_n to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a among_o the_o jew_n for_o the_o people_n by_o their_o own_o supreme_a power_n to_o murder_v their_o king_n and_o that_o in_o 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authority_n which_o so_o much_o offend_v he_o our_o indulgent_a mother_n according_a to_o her_o favourable_a discipline_n permit_v the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n as_o she_o have_v do_v for_o many_o year_n that_o of_o the_o consubstantiality_n to_o pass_v upward_o of_o twelve_o hundred_o year_n without_o any_o other_o judicial_a determination_n of_o the_o modus_fw-la as_o they_o call_v it_o than_o such_o as_o have_v be_v original_o plant_v in_o the_o heart_n and_o mind_n of_o the_o faithful_a and_o cultivate_v in_o every_o age_n by_o pious_a and_o learned_a man_n in_o their_o sermon_n catechism_n and_o other_o discourse_n as_o occasion_v happen_v but_o berengarius_fw-la a_o man_n fond_a of_o his_o own_o notion_n and_o value_v himself_o much_o upon_o his_o own_o reason_n resolve_v to_o set_v up_o for_o a_o new_a light_n of_o the_o church_n and_o among_o other_o error_n teach_v the_o figurative_a acceptation_n of_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n as_o have_v be_v before_o 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and_o repentance_n jan._n 6._o an._n dom._n 1088._o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o membranis_fw-la taureacens_n in_o chronic._n clarii_fw-la floriacens_n monach._n s._n petri_n vivi_fw-la in_o will._n of_o malmesbury_n l._n 3._o de_fw-la gestis_fw-la reg._n angl._n in_o baldrico_fw-la burgaliensi_fw-la abbate_n and_o in_o the_o manuscript_n b._n martini_n turonensis_n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o the_o seed_n of_o heresy_n thus_o sow_o be_v not_o easy_o root_v out_o and_o beside_o some_o catholic_n themselves_o take_v occasion_n from_o this_o heresy_n have_v writ-concerning_a this_o great_a mystery_n according_a as_o they_o best_o apprenended_a it_o but_o sometime_o the_o obscurity_n of_o their_o expression_n the_o double_a sense_n which_o they_o admit_v and_o not_o clear_o show_v what_o they_o themselves_o believe_v misfortune_n which_o happen_v to_o most_o man_n who_o write_v concern_v such_o high_a mystery_n without_o authority_n the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n think_v fit_a as_o the_o best_a mean_n to_o obviate_v these_o inconvenience_n to_o call_v a_o general_n council_n under_o pope_n innocent_a the_o three_o which_o be_v
reason_n and_o authority_n or_o the_o motive_n of_o a_o late_a protestant_n reconciliation_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n together_o with_o remark_n upon_o some_o late_a discourse_n against_o transubstantiation_n publish_a with_o allowance_n london_n print_v by_o henry_n hill_n printer_n to_o the_o king_n be_v most_o excellent_a majesty_n for_o his_o household_n and_o chapel_n 1687._o reason_n and_o authority_n or_o the_o motive_n of_o a_o late_a protestant_n reconciliation_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n that_o i_o may_v pay_v my_o due_a respect_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o which_o i_o be_o indebt_v for_o a_o considerable_a part_n of_o my_o education_n i_o think_v it_o just_a to_o publish_v those_o motive_n which_o oblige_v i_o to_o take_v my_o leave_n of_o she_o and_o if_o it_o shall_v appear_v that_o i_o have_v not_o rash_o quit_v her_o communion_n but_o have_v use_v herein_o the_o utmost_a strength_n and_o dictate_v of_o my_o most_o impartial_a reason_n i_o hope_v she_o will_v excuse_v i_o if_o i_o have_v follow_v that_o light_n which_o she_o herself_o so_o press_o recommend_v i_o shall_v therefore_o most_o reverend_a father_n communicate_v my_o motive_n to_o you_o in_o a_o short_a but_o plain_a method_n and_o if_o my_o brevity_n in_o this_o shall_v not_o sufficient_o express_v the_o strength_n of_o my_o argument_n censure_v not_o from_o thence_o the_o faith_n which_o i_o profess_v for_o have_v peruse_v many_o excellent_a author_n which_o have_v treat_v more_o particular_o and_o full_o of_o it_o i_o purposely_o avoid_v a_o long_a repetition_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o you_o may_v find_v more_o large_o and_o better_o handle_v in_o the_o original_n themselves_o i_o have_v be_v guide_v i_o hope_v by_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n and_o reason_n reduce_v thing_n almost_o to_o demonstration_n i_o have_v no_o charm_n nor_o conjuration_n upon_o i_o that_o i_o know_v of_o but_o shall_v be_v always_o ready_a to_o follow_v the_o strong_a evidence_n of_o 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the_o two_o church_n say_v further_a that_o in_o matter_n propose_v by_o my_o superior_n as_o god_n word_n and_o of_o faith_n i_o be_o not_o tie_v to_o believe_v it_o such_o till_o they_o manifest_v it_o to_o i_o to_o be_v so_o and_o not_o that_o i_o be_o oblige_v to_o believe_v it_o such_o unless_o i_o can_v manifest_v it_o to_o be_v contrary_a because_o my_o faith_n can_v rest_v on_o no_o humane_a authority_n but_o only_o on_o god_n word_n and_o divine_a revelation_n this_o be_v your_o constant_a doctrine_n as_o to_o our_o faith_n or_o internal_a assent_n as_o may_v be_v prove_v by_o many_o of_o your_o best_a author_n and_o indeed_o the_o justice_n of_o your_o reformation_n can_v consist_v with_o strict_a principle_n for_o how_o can_v you_o bind_v our_o conscience_n by_o a_o late_o usurp_v authority_n i_o speak_v as_o to_o declare_v article_n of_o faith_n not_o of_o discipline_n when_o you_o will_v not_o submit_v your_o own_o to_o the_o great_a authority_n under_o which_o our_o 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diceret_fw-la argui_fw-la tamen_fw-la non_fw-la posset_n and_o the_o great_a pontif_n cotta_n to_o velleius_n upon_o the_o same_o question_n concern_v a_o god_n credo_fw-la inquit_fw-la si_fw-la in_fw-la concione_fw-la quaeratur_fw-la but_o in_o private_a it_o seem_v he_o be_v very_o easy_a in_o his_o belief_n i_o will_v not_o mention_v epicure_n and_o lucretius_n their_o name_n be_v grow_v general_o too_o scandalous_a but_o if_o you_o examine_v anaxagoras_n anacharsis_n protagoras_n euripides_n diagoras_n and_o many_o other_o who_o reputation_n carry_v no_o small_a authority_n along_o with_o they_o you_o will_v observe_v such_o a_o suspension_n of_o mind_n concern_v a_o deity_n that_o if_o they_o be_v afraid_a positive_o to_o deny_v so_o neither_o will_v they_o confident_o affirm_v next_o suppose_v a_o deity_n whether_o the_o world_n be_v govern_v by_o god_n the_o epicurean_o total_o deny_v it_o nullam_fw-la omninò_fw-la habere_fw-la humanarum_fw-la rerum_fw-la procurationem_fw-la 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above_o two_o hundred_o year_n in_o any_o council_n that_o true_o
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consider_v these_o and_o many_o other_o seem_a absurdity_n which_o appear_v at_o first_o sight_n such_o
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dispute_v as_o long_o as_o he_o please_v next_o that_o the_o element_n remain_v in_o their_o form_n and_o substance_n this_o passage_n of_o theodoret_n have_v be_v in_o part_n answer_v before_o where_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v adore_v and_o from_o thence_o we_o may_v conclude_v that_o he_o mean_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o accident_n for_o those_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d &_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o this_o greek_a father_n use_v contain_v every_o kind_n of_o essence_n and_o nature_n as_o well_o of_o accident_n as_o of_o substance_n and_o so_o again_o he_o expound_v himself_o say_v that_o we_o may_v see_v and_o touch_v the_o say_a colour_n and_o form_n which_o have_v reference_n only_o to_o those_o accident_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n the_o element_n may_v admit_v of_o co-adoration_n with_o the_o body_n of_o our_o saviour_n as_o when_o himself_o be_v clothe_v upon_o earth_n otherwise_o not_o and_o theodoret_n be_v blame_v by_o the_o 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the_o first_o and_o yet_o that_o in_o the_o reign_n of_o king_n james_n the_o second_o the_o figurative_a doctrine_n in_o exclusion_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n shall_v be_v so_o firm_o and_o peaceable_o establish_v among_o we_o as_o that_o not_o so_o much_o as_o one_o single_a church_n of_o england_n man_n at_o least_o that_o i_o have_v hear_v of_o though_o high_o dignify_v by_o honourable_a and_o profitable_a employment_n in_o and_o by_o the_o say_a church_n of_o england_n shall_v write_v one_o word_n in_o vindication_n of_o their_o ancient_a church_n nor_o one_o small_a pamphlet_n to_o oppose_v the_o innovation_n of_o these_o usurp_a sacramentory_n but_o these_o thing_n worthy_a father_n concern_v you_o more_o than_o i_o and_o lest_o you_o shall_v quite_o forget_v that_o there_o ever_o have_v be_v any_o such_o doctrine_n profess_v by_o your_o church_n of_o england_n i_o shall_v humble_o take_v the_o liberty_n by_o and_o by_o to_o refresh_v your_o memory_n much_o more_o may_v be_v 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doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n from_o the_o apostle_n to_o the_o great_a council_n of_o lateran_n when_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o ambassador_n of_o the_o greek_a and_o roman_a emperor_n as_o also_o of_o the_o king_n of_o jerusalem_n england_n france_n spain_n and_o cyprus_n this_o word_n transubstantiation_n be_v agree_v upon_o by_o near_o thirteen_o hundred_o father_n to_o be_v a_o proper_a explicative_a term_n of_o the_o apostolical_a doctrine_n and_o belief_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n or_o change_v of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o jesus_n christ_n of_o this_o enough_o have_v be_v say_v but_o because_o our_o discourser_n be_v please_v to_o call_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n barbarous_a and_o impious_a p._n 35._o i_o have_v think_v fit_a to_o add_v to_o the_o rest_n the_o testimony_n of_o bishop_n andrews_n and_o the_o learned_a casaubon_n in_o the_o name_n of_o king_n james_n the_o first_o and_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o some_o other_o of_o the_o most_o learned_a father_n and_o professor_n of_o the_o true_a english_a church_n i_o will_v begin_v with_o bishop_n andrews_n resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n bell._n c._n 1._o p._n 11._o the_o cardinal_n say_v he_o can_v be_v ignorant_a except_o wilful_o that_o christ_n say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o not_o after_o this_o manner_n this_o be_v my_o body_n we_o agree_v in_o the_o object_n and_o differ_v only_o in_o the_o manner_n concern_v the_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la or_o this_o be_v we_o firm_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v concern_v the_o after_o this_o manner_n i.e._n by_o the_o bread_n transubstantiate_v into_o the_o body_n of_o the_o manner_n how_o it_o be_v do_v as_o by_o or_o in_o or_o with_o or_o under_o or_o through_o there_o be_v not_o a_o word_n concern_v it_o we_o believe_v the_o true_a presence_n no_o less_o than_o yourselves_o but_o we_o dare_v not_o confident_o define_v any_o thing_n concern_v the_o manner_n of_o this_o presence_n nor_o be_v we_o over_o curious_a to_o inquire_v into_o it_o etc._n etc._n again_o ib._n c._n 8._o p._n 194._o speak_v of_o the_o conjunction_n of_o christ_n body_n with_o the_o symbol_n he_o say_v there_o be_v that_o conjunction_n between_o the_o visible_a sacrament_n and_o the_o invisible_a thing_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o between_o the_o divinity_n and_o humanity_n of_o christ_n where_o except_o you_o will_v savour_v of_o eutychianism_n the_o humanity_n be_v not_o transubstantiate_v into_o the_o divinity_n and_o a_o little_a further_o the_o king_n have_v establish_v it_o that_o christ_n be_v true_o present_a in_o the_o eucharist_n and_o to_o be_v true_o there_o adore_v and_o we_o with_o ambrose_n adore_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o mystery_n some_o possible_o may_v be_v ingenious_a enough_o to_o interpret_v all_o this_o to_o signify_v a_o mere_a figurative_a presence_n as_o they_o have_v do_v many_o clear_a passage_n of_o the_o father_n but_o they_o must_v interpret_v for_o themselves_o not_o for_o i_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o be_v casaubon_n write_v to_o cardinal_n perron_n by_o the_o king_n command_n concern_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o eucharist_n who_o say_v that_o the_o contest_v be_v not_o about_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o thing_n return_v this_o reply_n p._n 50._o his_o majesty_n wonder_n since_o your_o eminence_n confess_v that_o you_o do_v not_o so_o solicitous_o require_v that_o transubstantiation_n shall_v be_v believe_v as_o that_o we_o shall_v not_o doubt_v concern_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v not_o long_o since_o have_v satisfy_v you_o in_o that_o particular_a which_o have_v so_o often_o profess_v to_o believe_v it_o in_o her_o public_a write_n and_o then_o for_o explication_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n recite_v the_o forementioned_a word_n of_o bishop_n andrews_n quod_fw-la cardinalem_fw-la non_fw-la latet_fw-la come_v we_o next_o to_o mr._n hooker_n eccl._n polit._n l._n 5._o sect._n 67._o p._n 357._o wherefore_o shall_v the_o world_n continue_v still_o distract_v and_o rend_v with_o so_o manifold_a contention_n when_o there_o remain_v now_o no_o controversy_n save_v only_o about_o the_o subject_n where_o christ_n be_v nor_o do_v any_o thing_n rest_v doubtful_a in_o this_o but_o whither_o when_o the_o sacrament_n be_v administer_v christ_n be_v whole_a within_o man_n only_o or_o else_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n be_v also_o external_o seat_v in_o the_o very_a consecrate_a element_n themselves_o again_o p._n 360._o all_o three_o opinion_n do_v thus_o far_a accordin_fw-fr one_o that_o these_o holy_a mystery_n receive_v in_o due_a manner_n do_v instrumental_o both_o make_v we_o partaker_n of_o the_o grace_n of_o that_o body_n and_o blood_n which_o be_v give_v for_o the_o life_n of_o the_o world_n and_o beside_o also_o impart_v unto_o we_o even_o in_o
booty_n with_o you_o for_o if_o this_o be_v a_o confutation_n of_o what_o be_v before_o allege_v from_o beza_n i_o profess_v i_o shall_v never_o quarrel_v with_o he_o about_o it_o nor_o desire_v any_o other_o hand_n than_o beza_n even_a in_o this_o very_a passage_n to_o express_v my_o belief_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n what_o a_o strange_a answerer_n be_v this_o sure_o he_o think_v because_o catholic_o submit_v their_o sense_n and_o reason_n in_o some_o thing_n to_o divine_a revelation_n and_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o they_o have_v not_o reason_n enough_o to_o judge_v in_o other_o case_n that_o three_o and_o one_o make_v four_o as_o well_o as_o two_o and_o two_o next_o he_o bring_v in_o cranmer_n and_o ridley_n when_o he_o be_v among_o his_o geneva_n brethren_n i_o suppose_v and_o he_o may_v as_o well_o have_v name_v himself_o and_o his_o eminent_a discourser_n against_o transubstantiation_n and_o what_o if_o these_o two_o first_o be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n concern_v the_o real_a presence_n with_o these_o two_o last_o it_o only_o prove_v that_o one_o at_o london_n contradict_v himself_o at_o geneva_n and_o the_o other_o man_n ten_o time_n more_o learned_a than_o himself_o our_o answerer_n that_o he_o may_v take_v breath_n before_o he_o come_v to_o our_o english_a divine_n abovenamed_a for_o i_o perceive_v he_o find_v that_o he_o be_v like_a to_o have_v a_o tough_a piece_n of_o work_n on_o it_o charge_v the_o oxford_n author_n with_o disingenuity_n chief_o in_o favour_n of_o doctor_n burnet_n history_n of_o the_o reformation_n alas_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o believe_v though_o i_o know_v neither_o the_o discourser_n nor_o this_o answerer_n not_o so_o much_o as_o by_o name_n but_o only_o by_o their_o work_n i_o be_o apt_a i_o say_v to_o believe_v that_o this_o discourser_n be_v much_o better_o acquaint_v with_o church_n history_n than_o the_o doctor_n and_o apply_v it_o with_o much_o more_o sincerity_n and_o truth_n than_o he_o have_v do_v i_o confess_v be_v i_o worthy_a to_o advise_v i_o shall_v counsel_v this_o answerer_n to_o flesh_n himself_o first_o upon_o some_o author_n of_o a_o low_a classis_fw-la for_o i_o doubt_v he_o be_v here_o overmatched_a and_o have_v get_v as_o we_o say_v a_o bear_n by_o the_o tooth_n what_o the_o learned_a historian_n mean_v by_o the_o wisdom_n of_o that_o time_n 58._o p._n 58._o in_o leave_v a_o liberty_n for_o different_a speculation_n as_o to_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o presence_n i_o can_v understand_v except_o that_o they_o do_v in_o that_o time_n general_o believe_v the_o real_a presence_n as_o have_v be_v before_o express_v but_o will_v not_o certain_o determine_v the_o manner_n that_o be_v as_o bishop_n andrews_n have_v say_v before_o whether_o it_o be_v per_fw-la or_o in_o or_o cum_fw-la or_o sub_fw-la or_o trans_fw-la but_o if_o there_o be_v no_o such_o real_a presence_n in_o any_o manner_n i_o know_v not_o what_o this_o liberty_n of_o speculation_n signify_v as_o to_o the_o manner_n when_o the_o thing_n be_v not_o real_o after_o any_o manner_n and_o if_o not_o as_o our_o answerer_n seem_v all_o along_o to_o affirm_v this_o then_o may_v indeed_o be_v great_a wisdom_n or_o humane_a policy_n not_o too_o rude_o to_o choke_v the_o tender_a ear_n of_o their_o late_a establish_a reformation_n but_o how_o it_o can_v consist_v with_o true_a piety_n and_o a_o church_n pretend_v to_o reform_v error_n we_o shall_v best_o find_v by_o this_o consideration_n if_o man_n have_v liberty_n to_o believe_v that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a after_o any_o manner_n it_o follow_v necessary_o that_o christ_n be_v adorable_a there_o where_o he_o be_v so_o present_a but_o if_o the_o church_n in_o its_o wisdom_n do_v certain_o know_v that_o christ_n be_v not_o real_o present_a after_o any_o manner_n then_o the_o church_n in_o its_o wisdom_n give_v man_n liberty_n to_o be_v idolater_n for_o our_o answerer_n have_v be_v please_v to_o deliver_v we_o his_o opinion_n from_o doctor_n taylor_n p._n 69._o who_o there_o say_v that_o to_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o non_fw-la ens_fw-la must_v needs_o be_v idolatry_n for_o idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la say_v st._n paul_n and_o christ_n as_o present_v by_o his_o humane_a nature_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v a_o non_fw-la ens_fw-la for_o it_o be_v not_o true_a there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n he_o be_v there_o by_o his_o divine_a power_n and_o blessing_n etc._n etc._n but_o for_o any_o other_o presence_n it_o be_v idolum_fw-la and_o that_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o learnede_a part_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n nay_o of_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o england_n itself_o if_o we_o will_v believe_v the_o article_n of_o henry_n the_o eight_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n or_o king_n james_n in_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o reformation_n be_v according_o idolatrous_a i_o be_o most_o abundant_o satisfy_v until_o some_o strong_a pen_n than_o our_o answerer_n shall_v full_o confute_v what_o be_v already_o extant_a to_o that_o purpose_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n leave_v the_o matter_n of_o fact_n to_o the_o doctor_n conscience_n we_o will_v follow_v our_o answerer_n he_o be_v come_v now_o to_o bishop_n jewel_n who_o tell_v we_o p._n 60._o that_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n indeed_o and_o very_o be_v give_v unto_o we_o that_o we_o very_o eat_v it_o that_o we_o very_o drink_v it_o etc._n etc._n yet_o we_o say_v not_o either_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v do_v away_o that_o be_v transubstantiation_n which_o be_v not_o our_o dispute_n or_o that_o christ_n body_n be_v let_v down_o from_o heaven_n or_o make_v real_o or_o fleshly_a present_n in_o the_o sacrament_n if_o by_o real_o he_o mean_v fleshly_a i_o subscribe_v to_o all_o this_o as_o to_o the_o real_a presence_n he_o go_v on_o that_o spiritual_o i._n e._n modo_fw-la spirituali_fw-la and_o with_o the_o mouth_n of_o our_o faith_n we_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n even_o as_o very_o as_o his_o body_n be_v very_o break_v and_o his_o blood_n very_o shed_v upon_o the_o cross_n if_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o a_o eutychian_a then_o certain_o his_o body_n be_v very_o that_o be_v substantial_o and_o true_o break_v upon_o the_o cross_n thus_o far_o then_o we_o punctual_o agree_v but_o the_o bishop_n explain_v himself_o the_o bread_n he_o tell_v we_o be_v a_o earthly_a thing_n and_o therefore_o a_o figure_n as_o baptism_n in_o water_n be_v also_o a_o figure_n it_o be_v confess_v now_o lest_o we_o shall_v think_v that_o by_o this_o figure_n the_o bishop_n intend_v to_o exclude_v the_o substance_n he_o add_v immediate_o but_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n that_o thereby_o be_v represent_v and_o be_v there_o offer_v to_o our_o faith_n most_o true_a be_v the_o thing_n i._n e._n the_o body_n of_o christ_n itself_o and_o not_o the_o figure_n as_o much_o of_o this_o as_o the_o answerer_n please_v we_o have_v reason_n to_o be_v thankful_a to_o he_o for_o it_o but_o he_o now_o come_v to_o answer_v for_o the_o venerable_a mr._n hooker_n you_o have_v hear_v what_o have_v be_v offer_v from_o the_o discourser_n the_o answerer_n tell_v we_o from_o mr._n hooker_n p._n 61._o that_o the_o part_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n because_o they_o be_v cause_n instrumental_a upon_o the_o receipt_n whereof_o the_o participation_n of_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n ensue_v and_o that_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n most_o bless_v body_n and_o blood_n be_v not_o therefore_o to_o be_v seek_v for_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o in_o the_o worthy_a receiver_n of_o the_o sacrament_n all_o this_o be_v most_o consistent_a with_o the_o protestant_a notion_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n here_o contend_v for_o next_o bishop_n andrews_n come_v upon_o the_o stage_n and_o first_o the_o answerer_n tell_v we_o as_o from_o himself_o only_o that_o this_o bishop_n insinuate_v 62._o p._n 62._o that_o the_o presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v much_o the_o same_o as_o in_o baptism_n the_o very_a allusion_n which_o the_o holy_a father_n be_v wont_a to_o make_v to_o express_v his_o presence_n by_o in_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n that_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o holy_a father_n may_v mean_v that_o christ_n be_v present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o in_o baptism_n catholic_o do_v not_o deny_v for_o they_o also_o constant_o affirm_v the_o same_o thing_n as_o much_o as_o either_o but_o if_o our_o answerer_n pretend_v to_o persuade_v we_o that_o either_o the_o bishop_n or_o father_n or_o catholic_n mean_v he_o only_o so_o present_a as_o to_o exclude_v the_o presence_n also_o of_o his_o natural_a body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n that_o remain_v to_o be_v prove_v which_o have_v not_o be_v do_v
eat_n be_v according_o to_o his_o false_a conception_n proceed_v from_o the_o narrowness_n of_o his_o own_o thought_n who_o will_v judge_v and_o measure_v the_o civility_n and_o reason_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n according_a to_o the_o custom_n it_o may_v be_v of_o his_o own_o little_a province_n but_o though_o no_o catholic_a thus_o pretend_v to_o eat_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n for_o that_o they_o all_o know_v he_o be_v immortal_a and_o uncapable_a of_o death_n or_o suffer_v or_o corruption_n or_o any_o other_o indignity_n yet_o our_o discourser_n will_v needs_o compare_v this_o eat_n in_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n to_o the_o violent_a hack_n and_o slash_v of_o our_o live_a friend_n and_o carnal_o devour_v their_o raw_a flesh_n like_o the_o worst_a of_o cannibal_n what_o a_o odious_a and_o disproportionate_a comparison_n have_v he_o make_v on_o purpose_n to_o deceive_v his_o friend_n and_o revile_v and_o scandalize_v those_o who_o he_o suppose_v his_o enemy_n but_o before_o i_o quit_v this_o page_n i_o must_v pay_v my_o respect_n to_o one_o main_a demonstration_n of_o he_o which_o he_o say_v be_v worth_a a_o thousand_o and_o it_o be_v this_o that_o the_o heathen_n object_v no_o such_o custom_n to_o the_o christian_n therefore_o no_o such_o doctrine_n believe_v now_o this_o piece_n of_o malice_n may_v have_v pass_v undisturbed_a with_o many_o other_o which_o i_o have_v not_o take_v notice_n of_o have_v he_o not_o have_v the_o confidence_n i_o will_v not_o use_v his_o own_o expression_n impudence_n to_o have_v provoke_v a_o answer_n by_o produce_v the_o half_a testimony_n of_o justin_n martyr_n in_o p._n 11._o to_o countenance_n his_o own_o error_n where_o that_o very_a father_n in_o that_o very_a place_n be_v make_v a_o apology_n to_o the_o heathen_a emperor_n antoninus_n and_o be_v so_o far_o from_o mince_v the_o matter_n or_o explain_v it_o by_o a_o figurative_a sense_n that_o he_o there_o tell_v the_o emperor_n we_o be_v teach_v that_o the_o food_n speak_v of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v consecrate_a by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o word_n be_v the_o flesh_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n jesus_n himself_o incarnate_a illius_fw-la incarnati_fw-la jesus_n &_o carnem_fw-la &_o sanguinem_fw-la esse_fw-la edocti_fw-la sumus_fw-la apol._n 2._o it_o be_v most_o prodigious_o strange_a and_o inexcusable_a in_o this_o holy_a father_n to_o have_v use_v this_o scandalous_a metaphor_n to_o a_o heathen_a emperor_n which_o they_o cautious_o express_v to_o the_o christian_a catechuman_n if_o he_o intend_v nothing_o more_o than_o a_o figurative_a sense_n for_o i_o will_v refer_v myself_o to_o any_o man_n whether_o it_o have_v not_o be_v more_o prudent_a and_o it_o may_v be_v pious_a to_o have_v soften_v and_o moderate_v the_o expression_n to_o a_o heathen_a though_o the_o father_n have_v true_o believe_v the_o real_a presence_n than_o thus_o to_o have_v expose_v himself_o and_o lay_v a_o unnecessary_a stumbling-block_n before_o the_o emperor_n if_o indeed_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v it_o but_o our_o discourser_n not_o satisfy_v with_o this_o tell_v we_o a_o story_n p._n 12._o that_o the_o heathen_a greek_n have_v take_v some_o servant_n of_o the_o christian_a catechumeni_fw-la urge_v they_o by_o violence_n to_o tell_v they_o some_o secret_n of_o the_o christian_n who_o confess_v that_o they_o have_v hear_v from_o their_o master_n that_o the_o divine_a communion_n be_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o they_o i._n e._n the_o catechumeni_fw-la think_v that_o it_o be_v real_o flesh_n and_o blood_n declare_v as_o much_o to_o the_o greek_n and_o yet_o our_o discourser_n in_o p._n 35._o will_v not_o admit_v that_o any_o such_o thing_n be_v ever_o object_v by_o the_o heathen_n to_o the_o christian_n although_o '_o by_o violence_n the_o christian_n themselves_o confess_v it_o what_o a_o bold_a conceit_a discourser_n be_v this_o who_o whilst_o he_o manifest_o confute_v himself_o think_v his_o adversary_n so_o impotent_a as_o not_o only_o not_o to_o have_v any_o defensive_a arm_n of_o their_o own_o but_o also_o not_o to_o dare_v to_o make_v use_n of_o he_o when_o he_o so_o fair_o offer_v they_o against_o his_o own_o false_a argument_n his_o misâ—_n application_n of_o the_o whole_a story_n from_o the_o answer_n of_o blandina_fw-la which_o he_o strange_o mistake_v be_v very_o silly_a for_o what_o catholic_o ever_o think_v that_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v a_o breach_n of_o their_o fast_a if_o any_o have_v by_o mistake_n some_o such_o thought_n as_o tertullian_n seem_v to_o insinuate_v the_o breach_n of_o their_o fast_a must_v be_v impute_v to_o the_o receipt_n of_o the_o symbol_n or_o accident_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n which_o indeed_o may_v nourish_v but_o not_o to_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n now_o have_v not_o our_o discourser_n thus_o demonstrable_o answer_v himself_o and_o save_v we_o thereby_o a_o further_a labour_n i_o can_v have_v recommend_v he_o to_o sâ—_n greg._n nazian_n st._n augustin_n and_o several_a other_o of_o the_o father_n where_o he_o will_v have_v find_v these_o objection_n make_v to_o the_o christian_n and_o their_o answer_n to_o they_o much_o after_o the_o manner_n of_o justin_n martyr_n and_o nothing_o be_v tell_v we_o more_o plain_o in_o the_o history_n of_o those_o time_n than_o that_o the_o heathen_n have_v a_o confuse_a notion_n of_o the_o great_a mystery_n of_o the_o sacrament_n do_v common_o accuse_v the_o christian_n of_o eat_v man_n flesh_n or_o young_a child_n or_o sometime_o their_o god_n sure_a our_o discourser_n intend_v to_o prevent_v we_o from_o use_v this_o argument_n ourselves_o for_o this_o objection_n of_o the_o heathen_n have_v ever_o be_v account_v a_o kind_n of_o demonstration_n of_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o doctrine_n his_o three_o objection_n be_v from_o the_o bloody_a consequence_n of_o this_o doctrine_n but_o he_o give_v we_o no_o particular_a instance_n and_o he_o do_v well_o to_o grow_v more_o wise_a 〈◊〉_d last_o for_o he_o have_v be_v very_o unlucky_a in_o they_o since_o therefore_o he_o be_v please_v only_o to_o affirm_v in_o general_a i_o be_o content_v to_o deny_v in_o general_n and_o so_o we_o be_v upon_o even_a ground_n his_o last_o objection_n be_v from_o the_o danger_n of_o idolatry_n if_o this_o doctrine_n be_v not_o true_a and_o i_o add_v the_o danger_n of_o our_o discourser_n most_o execrable_a blasphemy_n if_o this_o doctrine_n be_v true_a let_v we_o therefore_o both_o consider_v serious_o of_o it_o since_o the_o danger_n on_o both_o side_n be_v very_o great_a however_o we_o have_v the_o authority_n of_o many_o learned_a church_n of_o england_n man_n as_o may_v be_v see_v at_o large_a in_o the_o oxford_n discourser_n who_o have_v acquit_v we_o of_o idolatry_n whilst_o our_o discourser_n stand_v almost_o single_a in_o the_o scurrilous_a bitterness_n of_o his_o rude_a and_o unmanly_a expression_n and_o here_o i_o think_v our_o discourser_n will_v have_v end_v his_o dire_a wrath_n against_o transubstantiation_n but_o to_o be_v yet_o more_o secure_a and_o with_o good_a reason_n too_o that_o it_o may_v never_o rise_v up_o in_o judgement_n against_o he_o he_o come_v back_o again_o and_o in_o p._n 37._o give_v it_o four_o wound_n more_o for_o the_o absurdity_n of_o its_o doctrine_n and_o these_o be_v perform_v by_o way_n of_o four_o very_a considerable_a question_n as_o first_o p._n 38._o whether_o this_o doctrine_n do_v not_o contradict_v his_o sense_n second_o whether_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o his_o sense_n three_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o against_o the_o certainty_n of_o his_o sense_n and_o last_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o against_o the_o evidence_n of_o his_o sense_n now_o because_o to_o i_o these_o retail_v question_n seem_v to_o import_v much_o the_o same_o thing_n i_o will_v take_v the_o liberty_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o a_o speedy_a conclusion_n to_o give_v my_o opinion_n concern_v they_o in_o gross_a before_o we_o consider_v the_o monstrous_a absurdity_n of_o this_o doctrine_n set_v forth_o in_o these_o four_o great_a question_n it_o be_v reasonable_a that_o we_o serious_o think_v with_o ourselves_o upon_o what_o account_n this_o senseless_a doctrine_n shall_v happen_v to_o get_v such_o firm_a foot_n in_o the_o world_n as_o to_o have_v spread_v in_o a_o very_a short_a time_n as_o our_o discourser_n suppose_v over_o the_o face_n of_o the_o whole_a christian_a church_n nay_o more_o that_o in_o all_o probability_n it_o may_v have_v be_v universal_o receive_v even_o at_o this_o day_n have_v not_o the_o extraordinary_a learning_n reason_n sense_n and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o other_o qualification_n of_o john_n scotus_n berengarius_fw-la zuinglius_fw-la and_o our_o discourser_n open_v the_o eye_n of_o poor_a blind_a christian_n and_o show_v they_o how_o their_o sense_n be_v lead_v captivity_n captive_a by_o the_o juggle_a trick_n