and gone in their own traditions and inventions and have forsaken the strait way and the narrow path that leadeth to life and all are exhorted to come unto him who is the light and life of men that their souls may live and that they may witness assurance of the love of God unto them by his Spirit 's manifestation And now let us see whether the Author will keep to his word whether the church of Rome will all turn unto our way which is Christ the way the truth and the life or they will follow their visible Head the Pope who is changeable and doth not abide for ever who leadeth onely to an observance of outward things but neglects the weightier things to walk in And now I shall come to some Propositions which the Author saith hath been propounded which are unanswerable and the Propositions are against all Sectaries and the Propositions are laid down by Francis Costorus as the Author saith of the Society of Jesus which hath been laid down fifty years ago and they are in number eight and with them eight Propositions the Author saith he hath put all the ablest Ministers of Germany and the Low Countreys unto their wits end now I hope some will be able to give an answer and yet keep both their Faith Wit and Reason 1. The first Proposition is this That never since the Apostles time till the Year 1517. wherein Luther began his Doctrine were any found in the world who did consent with either the Lutherans Calvinists or Anabaptists or other Sectaries opinions nor ever shall any of the Sectaries prove that any of the Apostles or Evangelists were of their Faith so by consequence the Sectaries are without Faith they are the men whom the Scriptures in several places affirms that should come In the latter times false Prophets c. Answ. As I said before any opinion which Luther Calvin or the Baptized people do hold I shal not stand to vindicate it because they have so holden yet in many things they are separated from you upon good ground their Doctrine and Worship was far more consonant and agreeable unto the Apostles dayes then yours are but I am one that owns my self a Protestant who denies the Church of Rome and I do say this Proposition is silly poor and feeble and I do not believe that any was so hard put to it as to be brought to their wits end by answering of it for what need he talk of since the Apostles time till such a year we shal come to the Apostles time and age and if any society of people now are found the same in Faith in Doctrine in Worship in Life Practice and Conversation then they are the true Church And let Francis Costorus with the rest of the Roman Merchants take that Faith to themselves and that Doctrine to themselves and those particular points of Worship and Tradition to themselves since all the world hath wondred after the Beast and hath worshipped his Image and this was since the Apostles dayes And if the Church of Rome plead the whole world as for a proof John saw that Antichrist's false Prophets Deceivers were entred in then fifteen hundred years ago and the world went after them and he saw the whole world wonder after the Beast and the Whore sit upon the Waters Nations Kindreds Tongues and People and this comprehends the World the Whores seat and we matter not for her consent neither to Doctrines and Principles nor opinions nor for the approbation of them that have drunk of her Cup. But if we can prove a people which are gathered by the Word of God and thorow the preaching of the Gospel into the same Faith Hope Doctrine Life and Practice which the Apostls walked in then this is the Church which is coming out of the Wilderness again where she has been preserved while the Mother of Harlots has sit as a Queen and has been so visible as over all the World and hath made the Nations drink her Cup of Fornication and therefore your Unity in this thing and in this time is clear that the Church of Rome is not the Church of Christ but there are some whom Rome is pleased to call Sectaries that own the same Practice the same Doctrine the same Faith which the Apostles walked in and therefore this great Proposition is false That all that have separated from the Church of Rome have no Faith or a new fancied Faith and now I come to his second Proposition 2. Propositon The Religion and Faith of the Romane Church hath not been any way changed in any Article that belongs to Religion by any Pope Councils or Catholick Bishops but it is the very same Faith hath remained intire and inviolate from the Apostles to this present day There were Churches planted before there was any at Rome and the Faith which they received was that which did overcome the world and gave them victory over sin and death and the Religion which the Churches of Christ professed as Corinth Galathia Thessalonica and the rest of the Churches which the Apostles planted is no more like the Faith and Religion of the Church of Rome now then Black is to White as for instance Prove us out of the Scripture what foundation you have for Purgatory for selling Indulgences and Pardons for sins and vvhat Scripture have you for Auricular confession for an Unbloody Sacrifice for Prayer to Saints for worshipping of Images in the New-Testament for observing of Lent consisting of so many days And what Scripture and example from the Churches that were in the Apostles dayes before Rome was called a Church concerning prayer for the dead for yours crosses your tapers and candles for annointing with oyle and cream in Baptism which was onely invented by Pope Clement which another Pope Pope Silvester confirmed 315. Plat. Volat. Sabil And what example from the true Church for baptizing of Infants and for God-fathers and God-mothers in Christ's day when he planted the Church And that Infants should be baptized and onely at Easter and Whitsuntide was not this ordained by Pope Leo in the year 676. Lib. Council Volat. Pol. Chron. And was not Transubstantiation which you call the Body and Blood of Christ after the consecration when the Priest hath whispered over the Bread and Wine a few Latine words As Hoc est Corpus meum hic est enim sanguis meus c. The Bread is turned into the natural Body of Christ's flesh blood and bone was not this ordained by Pope Innocent held at Latterane by twelve hundred Romish Priests Monks and Fryars in the year 1215. decret de summa Trinitate Cap. firmiter And whether are not these articles of the Church of Rome yea or nay If I should traduce the church of Rome in their Bishops and Councils these 12. hundred years and upward I might bring a cloud of witnesses that the church of Rome is not the same in articles of faith in Religion
but divers Popes I might prove have made distinct articles and divers Councils and Bishops so that I might clearly prove and can and shall if God permit me with life if I hear any more of the church of Rome or the Author of this Book that I shall prove that the church of Rome in the articles of her Faith is not the same that the church of Christ was in before Rome was planted a church 2. I shall prove if need require her universal Councils as she calls them to vary and her Bishops to be different in their Decrees and that her faith in points of Religion is not the same from the Apostles day to this time as the author of this Book would make people believe but what I have said to this unanswerable Proposition as he calls it may be sufficient to convince both the Author and them that are doubtful in their minds about this particular 3. Proposition is That neither the Sacraments nor Ceremonies or any Doctrine of the Church of Rome contain any thing that is contrary to the Scriptures but learned Doctors maintain the same and that there is no alteration in any article of faith And then the Author makes a conclusion though full too hastily That they which dissent from the Church of Rome which he is pleased to stile Sectaries and Hereticks have no reason to withdraw from the Catholick Church Ans. As for that which you call the Catholick church of Rome we find such diversity of Orders and constitutions one distinct from another that to begin to enumerate them all would take up much time before one ended and would prove tedious to the Reader to view over the variety of Constitutions and Decrees that have been made concerning the ceremonies Sacraments as they call them and other Doctrines of the church of Rome which at this time is not my intention but Pope Alexander commanded that unleavened Bread should be used in the Supper in the year 1119. Lib Concil grat Sabil Before that time the outward Bread was indifferent whether it was leavened or unleavened notwithstanding the Greeks do use leavened bread unto this day in that which is called a Supper and they use Wine onely in the Cup but the Church of Rome mingle Water with their Wine according to Pope Alexander's Decree And the Doctrine of Transubstantiation of turning the bread into the body of Christ and wine into the blood as they say was an unknown Doctrine in the Apostles dayes and also among the Greeks until Pope Innocent the third 1215. Likewise Honorus the third he made a new Ordinance That the Sacrament of the Altar as the Church of Rome terms it should be worshipped and kneeled unto of the people and also it should be born unto the sick yea and that with Candle-light though it be at noon-day in the year 1214. D. 3. Tit. Cap. 10. Lib. Council Pant. And Innocent the third ordained that the Sacrament of the Altar should be kept under lock and key that such as were like to dye might not want spiritual comfort at the time of their death Lib. Council Cron. Pant. Pope Innocent the 8th permitted that the Priests of Norduegia might fing Masse with Water for lack of Wine in the year 1484. Math. Palm Pant. And as about the ceremonies about the Sacrament or Masse in a Council held at Rottomage it was decreed that the Sacrament should not thenceforth be given to Lay-men nor Lay-women in their hands any more but the Priests should put it in their mouths contrary to the use and practice of the primitive church yea and of the church of Rome it self many years after Lib. Council c. And so here the church of Rome is contrary to the former churches and to their own church of Rome in former times though C. M. would elevate the Propositions of Francis Costorus a Jesuit unanswerable 4. Proposition The Author saith It cannot be proved that any have been admitted Priests but were duly consecrated by Bishops Whence we infer That Lutherans Calvinists and other Hereticks are no true Ministers neither are of Divine Priesthood because they give to people a meer piece of bread and nothing else and they have no power to absolve people from their sins but send them away entangled with sin as when they came to them Ans. As for the consecration of the Priests of Rome you have consecrated many who are out of the Doctrine of Christ who are traytors to Kings and Governments and it 's a Maxime and a thing meritorious in your church to slay a Heretick that is one dissenting or not consenting to your corrupt principles and as one deceiver hath ordained and admitted another so hath your Bishops and Popes ordained the rest to execute their drudgery and corrupt traffick and as I have offered unto thee before if it be not a piece of bread and wine except mingled with water according to your changeable Ordinances before-mentioned put it to trial upon the terms I before mentioned that you may be made manifest to be deceivers or else we to all people And as for your Absolutions Pardons it hath been that which you have sold for money which made Luther and divers of your own church to deny you because it hath been contrary to Christ and the Apostles Doctrine And as for forgiveness of sins it properly belongs to Christ and to them that are in the same Power to them that confess forsake and turn from sin to pronounce forgiveness and mercy but the members of your Church confess from day to day unto your Priests that are as much entangled in sin as they who do confess and neither do repent nor find mercy at the hand of the Lord and your confessors and they that do confess they are defiled as much with sin when they end their work as when they began 5. Proposition It cannot be found in the holy Scripture that nothing is to be believed but what is clearly and expresly contained in the same Hence follows the overthrow of the ground work of the Sectaries who say that nothing is to be believed but what is expresly set down in the Scripture Ans. What others have said as to this particular I shall not now stand to vindicate because it is not my work to vindicate every particular judgement and person who believe contrary to your church but I say many are of that mind that are not of your church that things may be believed to be true according to the manifestation of God's Spirit though the Scripture in express words doth not declare the same yet you to bring in fabulous stories which you call unwritten verity that are to be believed though never so repugnant unto the Scripture and to the truth contained in it this we cannot receive neither believe and this will never be attributed by the Lord unto any for unbelief although you say it 6. Proposition The Author saith He would fain have Luther and Calvin and the
himself so by prom se to any place that he will always continue with them whether they abide in his Doctrine yea or nay And though Christ said The Gates of Hell should not prevail against the Church had this onely a Limitation to one place if it must needs be understood of a place outward because of these words afore-mentioned then why is it not extended as well to Antioch and the seven Churches of Asia and the rest afore-mentioned hath not the Gates of Hell and powers of darkness prevailed against them places and the Turks taken possession thereof And as for your Church at Rome which thou saith cannot err and hath always been visible and universal What saist thou to Marcilianus Christ's Vicar as you judge Whether did he not lose his keys when he sacrificed to Ido's in the tenth year of Dioclesian But it may be then thy Church must not reside in Christ's Vicar but in a general Council But hereafter we wil consider whether they have been alwayes one and could not erre Secondly That whereby the Roman Church gives us a Mark and Sign to be the true Church to wit Universality and Visibility makes her clearly to be a Harlot for John saw the true Church flye into the Wilderness for time times and half of time now if yours hath been visible and universal all this time times and a half then you are not the true Church for Universality comprehends all Nations Kindreds Tongues and People and if this be the Seat of your Church then absolutely your Church is Mysterie Babylon and not the Lambs Wife for she sate upon Nations Kindreds Tongues Peoples and Languages which were Waters And here is your Catholick Visible Church measur'd with God's Measuring-Rod First To be the Harlot because she was never in the Wildernesse Secondly because her seat hath been so Universal and Catholick as Natious Kindreds Tongues Peoples and Languages hath been the seat of your Church which are the Waters which John saw and so truly may be called the Great City And as for Infidels being obliged to join to you this hath been because you have forc'd and compell'd by your power and outward force where you had dominion and to escape your tortures rather than by sound Doctrine or a holy Example Or Secondly Because your Religion hath stood in so many formalities and ceremonies which hath been very pleasing and so near unto the Heathens nature And thou says that one cannot be bound to seek that which is invisible I say through faith God hath been seen who is invisible and Christ said Seek and ye shall find and the Kingdom of God is spiritual and invisible and the natural and visible eye never discerned it for the Church is in God and God is a Spirit and Christ is the quickning Spirit who is the Head of the Church which is his Body and the spiritual and invisible eye is that which discerns the Head and the Body and you that looke gazing after things that are visible have never discern'd the Members of the true Church of God as such neither have known them but have condemned them as Hereticks in all ages as your generation hath done who have been in Cains way Secondly If Unity Holiness Universal and Apostolick be the marks and figns of a true Church then yours is not the true Church no more then they you count Sectaries and Hereticks which thou saist are no more one than Cats and Dogs The comparison is odious and like a suarling catching spirit who would tear every one that cometh nigh thee And what if there be Protestants Puritans Anabaptists Independents and Quakers these titles are but nominal and there is not one amongst all these but they acknowledge one God and Jesus Christ to be the Head of the Body which is his Church and one Spirit by which the Saints are sanctified and they acknowledge Christs Doctrine in words and his Worship that it is in spirit and in truth and walketh nearer to the practice of the Apostles and the Church in their days than you do And if in some things they do vary why may not variety be allowed by thee where it is onely nominal and circumstantial as well as thou canst allow variety of Ave Maries Creeds and Pater Nosters which thou saist delighteth But why hast thou not judged at home Thou must not think to lead us like Animals by the Head as your Church doth poor ignorant people to receive every thing for Apostolick Doctrine because the Church of Rome calls it so and cryes Unity Might not the Sectaries as thou callst them return this upon your selves that you are not at unity and not one What meaneth the diversity of Orders in your Church which may be called sects that is Jerom's Order Austin's Order Gregory's Order Carmalites Crouched Fryars Franois Anthony's Bennet's Dominick's Trinity Basil Brigandine's Orders All these kind of Orders and many more with every one their distinct Service Formalities and Ceremonies what a heap of Sectaries are here and yet Rome cryes Unity Besides what contradiction in your Councils may hereafter be made manifest and in your Vicars one throwing down and condemning that which others have set up for Apostolick doctrine So if Unity be a mark of the true Church then you are without this mark and sign more than they which you call Sectaries Thirdly If Holiness be a sign of the true Church you are without this sign also more than the Sectaries as you are pleased to call them What cruel Murthers Massacres Tortures Bloodsheds hath been acted by your Church and that by Commission from his Holiness so call'd Christ's Vicar against them that have dissented from you upon good and warrantable ground onely upon the account of Religion because they could not acknowledge the Pope to be the Head and Christ's Vicar and receive all Decrees though never so repugnant unto the Doctrine of Christ yet because for Conscience-sake many have denied such things nothing but fire and sword have been threatned and the force thereof hath been known in many Nations as for instance in Germany and the Low-Countreys France Pyedmount Holland England and Ireland of late years many thousands massacred not in War but in holes hundreds of Houses burnt men women and children children taken from their Mothers Breasts knockt against the Walls toss'd upon Pikes and Spears wounded with Swords thrown into Lakes and Rivers stript naked starv'd in cold seasons through such like inhumane and savage cruelty Commissions given from your Nuntio's and Agents to rob to steal even Servants from their Masters even upon this account only to weaken enfeeble the Sectaries and Hereticks as you stile them to advance your Holinesse's Chair and to progagate your holy or rather unholy Church and Religion which things remain fresh in the memory of many Nations to this day besides doth not your Church tolerate Stews and Adulterous Houses in the Cities where you have Dominion Besides Pride abounds amongst