true Church better than the honorable name of Catholike or more condemne them to be out of Christes church thā that not only the Christiā worlde geueth it not to them but they in a name do refuse the same them selues then do I recant HEre you bewraye your selfe euidently and acknowledge that we doe not sclaunder you when we say you boast onely of the Catholike church For you declare plainely that you haue no better argument then the very name of the Catholike Church to proue that you be the Catholike Church if this be the best argument all the rest is litle worth For if the onely name of an honest man is enough to proue an honest man many a knaue may proue him selfe an honest man and if the very name of learning make a learned man many an asse may proue him selfe to be a learned man or if the name of a good Christian proue a man to be a good Christian euery hypocrite may proue him selfe a good Christian Likewise if you haue no greater argument that can more condemne vs then that we are not called the Catholike Church then can you no more condemne vs then Christ and his Apostles that were not onely not called the true Church but also were called heretikes deceiuers by the people of the Iewes which were as rightly called God his people as they that giue you the name of Catholike Church are called the Christian world It is well you haue nothing better to proue your Church then the honorable name of Catholike nor any thing more to condēne our Church then that we are not called Catholike and yet we haue as many nations and more then you haue that by publike authoritie call vs Catholikes and you heretikes although you most shamefully sclaunder vs that we doe refuse the name being offered vnto vs Seeing you boast so much of the name Catholike you shall heare what some of the old writers iudged thereof Chrysostome in an homelie that he writeth of Adam and Eue in the later ende hath these words after he hath tolde them that he hath no neede to repeate such depe questions as those men haue handled which haue fought against heretikes Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium that is we beleue that what so euer the Apostles haue taught vs according to the foresayd rules is sufficient in so much that in no wise we thinke that to be Catholike which shall appeare to be contrary to the sentences before determined By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to haue the name of Catholike for he iudged nothing to be Catholike in deede that was contrary to the rule groūded in the writings of the Apostles Wherfore how so euer you boast of the honorable name of Catholike except you can proue that your opinions agree with the Scripture they are not Catholike in deede by Chrysostomes iudgement S. Augustine also in his booke de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholike faith sayth This is an article thereof that we should beleue Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est That he hath appoynted a mother Church which is called Catholike of this because it is vniuersally perfect halteth in nothing and is dispersed ouer all the worlde S. Augustine here is not content that the Church be onely called Catholike but sheweth when it is that which it is called and therefore the popish Church not being vniuersally perfect as most Papists will confesse that many thinges in their church haue neede of reformation halting in many thinges from the truth of God his worde neither yet being dispersed ouer all the world but conteyned in a corner of Europa is not by S. Augustines rule the Catholike Church Furthermore S. Augustine cōtra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainely declareth how farre forth not onely the name of Catholike but also how farre vniuersally consent succession antiquitie are to be allowed Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam c. Therefore to omitte this wisedom which you do beleue to be in the Catholike Church there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosome The cōsent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope encreased with charitie confirmed by antiquitie doth hold me The succession of Priestes from the very seate of Peter the Apostle vnto whom our Lord after his resurrection committed his sheepe to be fedde euen vnto this present bishopricke doth hold me Last of all that very name of Catholike doth hold me which name not without a cause this Church alone hath so obteyned among so many heresies that wheras all heretiks would be called Catholikes yet when a stranger shall aske where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shew him either their principall temple or house All this you will say maketh exceeding much for vs yea but heare that which followeth Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit proponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor that is But among you where there is none of these thinges that may prouoke or holde me there soundeth the onely promise of truth which if it be shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt is to be preferred before all those thinges by which I am holden in a Catholike Church By this you may plainly see that though consent antiquitie succession and the name of Catholike be good confirmation when they are ioyned with the truth yet when a truth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all it is truth that maketh Catholike to be estemed and not Catholike that giueth authoritie to truth Wherefore seeing it were better to proue your Church to be Catholike then to boast that it is so called to disproue our Church so to be then to say it is not so called The best way for you is to recant The 21. article conteyneth but one demande 1 Moreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in that time in which they holde the true church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the Catholike church was bounde to goe from that church which they sawe and taught them both the article and all other thinges touching their faith and by which they were Christened and receyned all other sacraments and commodities of saluation whether they were bounde I say to beleue this vnknowen and close Congregation which they coulde
the gift of prophesie the gift of healinges c. but there be other prerogatiues of God his spirit that are necessary for the saluation of God his elect as the gift of vnderstanding the gift of Faith the spirit of adoption c. and these the spouse of Christ hath neuer wanted Wherefore if you wil be partaker of those benefits which are receiued in the church of Christ you must forsake your Romish religion and recant The 25. article hath 2. demandes 1 Shew me that the Church which ought to be a Christian mans staye in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine might become so hidde or so close that no man coulde finde her THe reader must not be offended with me for any tedious repetition of mine aunsweres seeing you geue the occasion by propounding your demandes so often This demande hath a false principle that the church ought to be a Christian mans onely staie in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine for when soeuer any such tempestes doe arise there is as great question and doubt of the Church as there is controuersie of the doctrine for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande sower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was hidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching exhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commō consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preaching the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall disher but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution
you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humana iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinorum dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist 48. Vincentio Epist 111. Fortunatiano Epist 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certisumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quisquam nostrum in iustitiae sua sed in scripturis Diuinis quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris eam quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christis puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought
preserued vntil God should reueale Antichrist and bring her againe into open light which his holy name be praysed is now brought to passe in our dayes to our inestimable comfort and his euerlasting glory 3 And if it can be proued that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours hath mightely ouerthrowne these foresayd sectes and other of all sortes I recant IT hath bene already proued sufficiently that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onely by the worde of God as a most infallible rule hath ouerthrowne heresies of all sortes But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon by which heresies are cut downe to be sufficient for that purpose neuer was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretikes therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretikes not by authoritie of the Scriptures but by fire and sworde and cruell warre as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses Albigenses Bohemians and in our dayes with the true Christians But where her power of fire and sword could not preuayle there hath she not ouerthrowne such as she condemneth for heretikes namely the Grecians church all other churches of Asia and Aphrica which vnto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike nor her authoritie to be lawefull Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretikes in deed nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretikes if you be as good as your worde you recant The fiueth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointement Discipline vpon offendors in all degrees ONely the Church of Christ by Christes appointement hath exercised true discipline vpon offendors Although by meanes of persecution she could not alwayes practise the same as she would 2 And for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and Canons Ecclesiasticall with Excommunication Degradation suspension and such like THe Church of Christ only hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline but as it is said before she hath not continually practised the same because she could not being hindered by persecution and dispersion Concerning excommunication she hath practised it according to the word of God and against such offendors as the scripture iudgeth worthy of that seuere punishment As for degradation and suspension it may be doubted what you meane by them if you vnderstand by degradation that such persons as the Church hath tried vnmeet either for doctrine or manners to execute the office of preaching and ministring the sacraments she hath displaced and reiected from that charge she hath also practised drgradation And if you meane by suspension that when the accusation of a mans doctrine or life was vncerteine that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office vntill his cause were tried either good or euill she hath also vsed suspension but if by degradation and suspension you meane those foolish and wicked ceremonies which the popish church now vseth and so termeth I deny that euer the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions 3 Proue me this geere to procede from Protestants or from any other Church than the Catholike and I recant IT is proued before that true discipline belongeth to the true Church wherof we are a part which Church is sufficiently proued to be the spouse of Christ because she is ruled in all thinges by his onely voice And therefore all congregations of heretikes which departe from the true worde of God though they take vpon them to exercise discipline by excommunication or otherwise it is not to be regarded and lest of all the Popish church where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication but the very names for what call you popish discipline is not that it which they vse in Lent whisking men on the heades and women on the handes with white roddes which they them selues call discipline Or is it the seuere punishment that they vse against offendors by excommunication suspension interdighting c. First it is manifest they haue no excommunication by Christes appointment for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by Gods worde nor against such offendors only as God his word appointeth for wheras our Sauiour Christ appointeth the order of that discipline to the Congregation of such as are wise godly and carefull of mens health which first shal labor by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation to bring the offendors to repentance whome if they refuse to heare they are to be reputed for hethens and publicanes the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and vnreligious officers which are more desirous to gaine the fees of absolution than by bringing the party to repentance to saue him from excommunication Moreouer whereas by Gods worde excommunication is the last and most greuous punishment that the Church can enioyne against any of whom there is any hope of saluation and therefore ought not to be practised but for haynous offences the Popish church maketh it serue for euery trifling matter yea for pettie debts and all then commeth in interdightings suspensions of places as churches and townes yea whole realmes for one mans faulte what likelinesse hath this vnto the discipline of Christes church set forth in the scriptures and practised by the fathers with what face can you Papistes affirme they haue discipline in their Church whē all penaunces for most horrible offences may be bought out for money and an open market thereof set vp at Rome with the prices rated what men must pay for euery thing that they buye as absolution for him that hath killed his father or mother brother sister or wife Turones 4. Ducat 1. Ca. line 5.8 For an heretike before he haue abiured 36. Turones and 9. ducates For a witche 6. Turones 2. ducates For a priest that is a Sodomite or hath lyen with brute beastes 36. Turones 9. ducates For a nonne that hath bene a common whore both within and without her Abby with dispensation that she may be able to receiue any dignitie in her order yea to be Abbesse 36. Turones 9. ducates And so for all other offences with dispensations inhibitions rehabilities licences relaxations commutations confirmation perinde Valeres Marcamas and the deuill and all for money wherefore except you be to impudent to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline be as good as your promise and recant The sixth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe from what Church did all the solemne ceremonies and obseruations all festiuall dayes all fastes all distinctions and varieties of seruice by diuersities of seasons and times of the yeare proceede FIrst you must vnderstande that we detest and abhorre all your beggarly ceremonies which you counte holy and solemne obseruations for we know that God is not to be worshipped with such thinges but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit veritie Iohn 4. And seeing we know God or rather are knowen of him we will not regarde the
purpose because the gouernment of the Byshop of Rome is most misliked of them and yet most notoriously knowne by euery historie let them name the Pope that first brake of the course of his forefathers beleefe regiment in any article of fayth or necessary Christian vsage and I recant I Haue named before Victor which was the first that went about to vsurpe authoritie ouer other Churches Also I haue named Boniface the third which was the first that chalenged to be vniuersall bishop For Gregorie the great sayeth Nemo meorum decessorum hoc prophano vocabulo vti voluit That is None of my predecessors woulde vse this prophane worde The same Gregorie as Hulderichus bishop of Auspourge doth testifie was the first that compelled priests to liue vnmaried which afterwarde when he saw the inconuenience he reuoked Thus hauing named diuers Popes that first brake the course of their fathers faith and regiment c. and more coulde rehearse but for auoyding prolixitie I chalenge your promise that you must recant The 12. article hath 3. demandes 1 Item I aske what kinde and order of seruice or common prayer what waye of ministring of the sacraments your Church had before Papistry as you call it did preuaile in the worlde IVstinus Martyr in his second Apollogie to the Emperour declareth plainely what order of seruice and ministration of sacramentes our Church had before Papistry preuayled On the daye called Sonday sayth he there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the Citie or in the countrie and the monumentes of the Apostles or the writinges of the Prophetes are reade vntill it be thought sufficient when the reader hath made an ende he that is our ouerseer or cheefe minister maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good thinges that are reade After this we all stande vp together and make our prayers and as we haue saide before when our prayers are ended there is brought forth bread and wine water and the cheefe minister doth likewise with all his might yelde prayers and thankesgeuing and the people aunswereth Amen Then is made distribution to euery one and receyuing of those thinges for which thankes was geuen and to them that be absent it is sent by the deacons Such as are riche and willing doe geue almes what they will c. By this one authoritie it may be seene though other might be brought what order of seruice and ministration of sacraments our Church vsed before Papistry gat the vpper hande 2 Shew one booke of Communion or what els you list that was in English or lacked prayer for the departed or inuocation of Sainctes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receyue or els that the preest coulde not consecrate nor say Masse himselfe or shew any note in a Communion booke that the people shoulde take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should geue no honor to it shew this booke or any leafe or line of this booke IT may trouble a wise man to aunswere all the questions that a foole can propounde you requier to see a booke of Communion in English or that lacked c. When it is confessed that the English nation receiued their religion first from Rome at such time as Religion there was verie corrupt what marueill is it if we can not shewe you such a Communion booke as you require but we can easily shew you out of the scripture the the Communion ought to be ministred in the vulgare tongue that prayer for the deade and to the deade ought not to be vsed that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a priuate masse that the substance of the bread is not changed that the elementes of the sacrament are not to be honored these I say we can proue out of the worde of God the Catholike writers of the olde Church And though perchaunce it wil be harde to finde a communion booke in English yet haue I founde you a canon of the Laterane Councell that it ought to haue bene translated into English yet are there founde diuers monumentes of Antiquitie as Prayers Psalmes and Homilies c. in the olde English or Saxons tongue in which the reall presence transubstantiation and other poinctes of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted There may be shewed you also Bybles both the olde Testament and New in the English tongue of diuers translations in olde written hande Also great bookes of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in olde English written hande with diuers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters if these woulde do you any good you might haue the sight of them when you please 3 Or any Church or Congregation that euer had any Authenticall seruice but ours and I recant THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in with Romish seruice had they not trow you Authenticall seruice which continued in the faith of Christ euen from the Apostles time The Grecians also Orientall churches haue they not vnto this day their Authenticall seruice which is not yours If you can not deny this you should recant The 13. article hath 2. demaundes 1 Furthermore I requier to know what shoulde be the cause that the Protestants themselues doe receiue all Byshops Priestes Deacons and other officers spirituall of all sortes of our Catholike church and doe admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered both to preach minister sacraments and to exercise spirituall iurisdiction no lesse but rather more than if they were of their owne ordering where we of the Catholike church doe not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fitte for any spirituall function than other lay men ALthough all godly men wishe more seueritie of discipline to be vsed in receyuing them that come out of heresies to serue in the Church than is commonly practised in England yet you are highlie deceyued if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops priests deacōs any better than the state of lay men but farre worse for we iudge them to be nothing els but Antichristianitie heresie and blasphemie And therefore we receiue none of them to minister in our church except they forsweare your religion And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering but a new calling vnto the ministerie 2 Therefore vpon this presumption that they doe not onely admit our ministring of sacraments but also the lawfull ordering of the ministers for the same if they can shew me why our church hauing by their owne consent and approuing lawfull priestes and bishops should not be the true church I recant YOu presume to much as I saide before to thinke that we receiue your orderinge to be lawfull or your ministring of sacraments to be pure And if you gather that we admitte your ministration of sacraments because we doe not rebaptize
saying he coulde erre where he can not erre then this proposition is false the Pope can not erre so one proposition shal be both true and false which is impossible Likewise if he holde that hilde that the councell can not erre and the councell it selfe confesseth it that it may erre Gentle maister N. reconcile me these together which concerne a case that hath bene in practise and still is in the Papistrie and maye here trouble a mans conscience that woulde beleue your church and if he haue any wit restraine him for euer comming into your church If you can not vntie this knot nor winde your selfe out of this maze vnlesse you will be still obstinate it were wisedome for you to recant The 18. article hath but one demande I demande whether they were euer of the true Catholike church which either tooke to them selues newe names of religion according to the calling of any secte maister or liked not so well the name of Catholike or Christian as of their seuerall teachers as to be called of Arius Arians or of Caluine Caluinistes or of Luther Lutheranes or Protestants c. if any man therefore can proue vnto me that men which haue chosen to themselues to declare their diuersitie of faith from the common knowen Catholike church such newe names shoulde be of the Catholike church I recant I Aunswere that they which can not be content with the name of Christians but chose vnto them selues newe names after the calling of their secte maisters as Arrians Pelagians Franciscanes Dominicanes Benedictines Gilbertines Augustinians Scotistes Thomistes Albertistes c. are none of the Catholike church But the true Christians which desier most of all to be so called and compting it a most honorable name without chosing any other name be of the Catholike church although in reproch they be called of you Caluinistes and Lutherans As for the name of Protestants came first of them that made protestatiō against the decree of Spires in Germanie and from that time hath bene attributed to the professors of the Gospell which name they doe not so much delight in as you doe in the name of Papistes Therefore if nothing els do let you but the name there is no cause why you shoulde not recant The 19. article hath but one demande Againe if these which by the common calling and iudgement of Christian people be named and commonly taken for heretikes haue not in all ages proued them selues in the ende to be heretikes in deede notwithstanding their craking of Gods worde and therefore that the Protestants being so taken and called proue not so in deede I recant THose that by true Christians haue bene called and counted for heretikes haue proued so in deede and therefore the Papistes being called and counted heretikes of true Christians without doubt are heretikes in deede But it hath not bene alwayes true that they which of the people commonly called Christians were called and taken for heretikes proued so in deede For the true Christians of the Arrian people that were called Christian people were called and taken for heretikes and in reproch were called Homousians and Athanasians yet they proued and were in deede true Christians and no heretikes So the true Christians at this day being of the Papistes which after a sorte are named Christians called heretikes and in reproch Protestants and Caluinistes in that their faith agreeth with the worde of God proue them selues in deede to be true Christians no heretikes Therefore you haue bound your selfe to recant The 20. article hath 3. demandes 1 Likewise if any man can proue vnto me that either those be not true Christians which by the consent of nations and by olde prescription of so manye yeares as be sith their conuersion be and euer hath bene called Catholikes YOu your selues will not accompt the Grecians for true Christians and yet by consent of nations and prescription of as many yeares as you can prescribe they be and euer haue bene called Catholikes if you say they are not called by you I aunswere no more are you so called by thē And sence the time that you departed from them as great a portion of the worlde and as many nations haue called them Catholikes as you are able to shewe on your side Therfore either you must compte them true Christians or els you must graunt that they which haue ben long called Catholikes are not alwayes true Christians 2 Or that those can be any true members or children of the Catholike church which do mislike and mistrust so farre-forth these holy names as wel of Church as Catholike that they haue turned thē into Congregations and Gospellers and Protestants and such like HE is a foolish sophister that reasoneth from names to things as you doe most vainely and childishly we mislike the names of Church Catholike because we do sometimes vse these names Congregation and Gospellers or Protestantes and therefore be no true members of the Catholike church we neither mislike nor mistrust those names as you sclaunder vs neither doe we boast and trust onely in these names without the thinges them selues as you doe and as your forefathers the wicked Iewes crying the Temple of the Lorde the Temple of the Lorde the Temple of the Lorde when they had nothing lesse than the Temple of the Lord but rather a denne of theues So you crie the Catholike church the Catholike church the Catholike church when you haue nothing in deede but the synagoge of Sathan But because you make so much of these two names Church and Catholike let vs see what great mysteries are conteined in them This worde Church commeth of the Greeke worde Kyriaka in Latine Dominica in English the Lorde his house for so were they wonte in olde time to call their temples or oratories so that this worde church proprely signifieth a materiall temple and can not signifie the fellowship and communion of Christian people but by a figure Therefore if we other whiles vse this worde Congregation which can not denie but it is the English worde of this Greeke name Ecclesia that the Scripture vseth and signifieth without figure the same thing that this word Church doth by a figure you may be ashamed if you were not impudent to finde any fault with vs for so doinge Likewise this worde Catholike commeth of the Greeke worde and signifieth Vniuersall or ouer all which worde the common people doth not vnderstande Therefore we expounde it plainly and saye that the Catholike Church is the Congregation of Christ dispersed ouer all the worlde What reasonable man can reprehende this doinge and not rather your folly which thinke it inoughe if the people can prate like parates Catholike Catholike and vnderstande not what Catholike meaneth Thus as we doe not refuse these wordes Catholike and Church because they are commonly receiued so doe we interprete them by Vniuersall and Congregation because they are not else commonly vnderstanded 3 If therefore any thing can proue our
neuer come vnto nor by which they euer receiued or coulde receiue any benefit and so forsake that church by whom and in whom they receiued both their faith and sacraments Shew me therefore that the Christian men of these dayes were charged to beleeue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptized them and I recant THis demande is like a drunken mans dreame hauing neither heade nor foote whether they shoulde beleue the church was lost whether they shoulde beleue the church that was vnknowen to them c. But if your demande haue any sense in it This is my aunswere The church was neuer lost but hidden from the eyes of the worlde Therefore if the people that where taught that article To beleue the Catholike church and were baptized to your church vnderstood that this church was not the Catholike church which was so commonly called but that God had a secret Congregation which was in deed the true Catholike church they were bound to forsake your church and to beleue the secret Congregation for if a man had ben baptized of the Arrians and being brought vp by them had learned that article to beleue the Catholike church which the Arrians would expound to be them selues if afterward by God his helpe this man vnderstood that the church of the Arrians was not the catholike church as he was taught it was but that Athanasius and a few other that were banished and persecuted were the true Catholike church he was bounde to leaue the Arrians commonly called the church and to ioyne him selfe with the secret banished hidde and persecuted church of Christ But as for your Popish church in that time of blindenesse and error taught not the people that article nor any other but kept them backe from the knowledge as well of that article as of all other thinges that were necessary to their saluation for you taught them nothing els but to pronounce and that full ilfauoredly like popingeys certeine latine wordes which they vnderstoode no more than stockes or stones So that the people had no instruction of you no not of the name of God in many places but that they receiued by vncertaine talke of their parentes as it were from hande to hande for how many thousand parishes are there in Englande that within these 60. yeares woulde declare that they neuer hearde sermon in their life As for that they hearde of their seruice they learned as much of it as of the ringing of their belles which was a sounde without vnderstanding Therefore you may be ashamed to speake of teaching the people their belefe and all thinges necessary for saluation when you haue counted it heresie to learne their creede in English or to reade the scripture in English in which is conteined all thing necessary to be knowen for euerlasting saluation Finally because you requier me to shew you that the Christian people of those dayes were bounde to beleue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptised them I trow I will so shew it you that for both your eares you dare not deny it how saye you The Christian people of the Greeke church which were taught by the Greeke church that article of the church and by the same Greeke church were baptised whether ought they to beleue any other church but the Greeke church If you say no then you acknowledge the Greeke church to be the true church which denieth the Popes authoritie if you saye yea Then you are welcome home you recant The 22. article although it be very confuse yet it conteyneth in effect 3. demandes 1 I aske also whether any man for the space of that 1000. yeres of blindenes could be saued out of that secrete and small Church which they say was the true Church if they aunswer me there might be some saued with our Sacraments and in the Communion or fellowship of the Papistes out of the Protestants Church then there was a way to heauen out of Gods Church if they say that none could be saued by our Sacraments out of their close Church then all men yong and old perished for those yeares without any hope of mercy because they could not vnite them selues and be incorporate to that company and Congregation whereof they neuer neither hearde nor coulde by any meanes surmise Therefore let any man aliue proue vnto me that either any man could out of the true Church be saued NO man aliue that knoweth what the true Church meaneth will say that any man can be saued out of the true Church for he that is not a member of the body of Christ cā by no meanes receiue any benefit of Christ to his saluation Therefore how long so euer the true Church were hidden whether it were a thousand yeres as you beare men in hand that we should say or two thousand yeares it is not materiall this is certeyne that out of this Church none could be saued and though you count it smal as in deede in respect of the world it is but a small flocke and fewe are elected and fewe finde the streit gate of life Luke 12. Matth. 7. 20. yet is the number of it greater then mans eye commonly can discerne As when Elias thought that he only had bene left alone of the true Church God answered that he had yet reserued 7000. that neuer bowed their knee to Baal 1. Reg. 19. And as Esay declareth when the people shoulde be almost all destroyed yet a remnant should be saued which though it seemed to be small yet it should ouerflow and fill all the world with righteousnes Esa. 10. and though it shal be like a gathering of grapes when vintage is ended or the shaking of an oliue tree when men thinke they haue left nothing vppon it yet there be two or three in the toppe amonge the boughes foure or fiue vnder the leaues in the highest brāches Esay 17. 24. 2 Or that any other company could be knowne for the true and onely Church but our common Catholike societie THe true Catholike Church was neuer so secrete or hidden but it might be knowne of all those that had eyes to see it whose hartes were lightened with the spirite of God and were enstructed by the worde of God that they might vnderstande the trueth and knowe the spouse of Christ from the common strompet of Antichrist 3 Or that all men were damned for a thousand yeares togither because they coulde not finde nor surmise of any other Church then that which practiseth all holy functions which Christ left for our saluation in the world and I recant WE take not vpon vs to medle with God his iudgments whom he condemneth for what causes further then the word of God teacheth vs namely that as many as haue not beleued in the onely sonne of God are condemned for their vnbeliefe other secret causes we remit to his secrete counsell and knowledge And
AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO THE PROVDE CHALLENGE OF A counterfet Catholike By VVilliam Fulke Doctor in diuinitie Imprinted at London by Thomas Vautrollier dwelling in the Blacke Friers 1577. To the Christian Reader THIS short treatise gentle Reader hath lyen by me neare hand or altogether tenne yeres space vvritten at the request of a godly learned friend of myne in aunsvver to a proud challenge of a Papist against the Protestant VVhich though at the first and many yeares after I determined not to publish supposing the same challeÌ„ge to haue ben priuate or in fevve mens handes yet novv of late that I haue seene it in diuerse godly gentlemens handes to vvhom it hath bene deliuered by Papistes belike to peruert them and of vvhom also I haue bene desired to auÌ„svver it and am further credibly informed that the same is in print esteemed of many ignorant Papistes to be so vnansvverable that although it hath bin protested by gentlemen of great vvorship and credit that they haue seene the auÌ„svvere therof in vvriting yet they vvil not beleue that any man dare set his penne to the paper once to attempte the matter I haue novve thought good to put it in print as it vvas vvritteÌ„ at the first Nothing douting by Gods help but I shall be able to stand to the defence if the Challenger vvill proceede to mainteyne his challenge any longer And vvhereas the same of late hath bene ioyned vvith my confutation of the doctrine of purgatory and yet is desired of many to be set forth in seuerall because the argument is more generall it is thought good to satisfie their desire to spare their exspenses that being resolued in the matter of purgatory doe yet stagger in the challenge of the Church The breuity that I haue vsed as I vnderstand is misliked of some men vvhich vvoulde haue vvished a larger discourse but seeing the Challenger requireth shortnes if this that is vsed be sufficient to satisfie his demaunds or any of them a longer treatise vvere but superfluous If he thinke him selfe not throughly aunsvvered declare the same in all or in part that vvhich is novve omitted shall then God vvilling be supplied In the meane time vse this gentle Reader and fare vvell in the Lorde The faultes of this impression are thus to be amended The first figure signifieth the page the second the line Pag. 3. line 35. Lithuania reade Lithuanda 5.3 vvriting r. vvritinges 10.10 the scripture reade the booke of scripture 13.17 then reade thou and line 19. you reade thou 15. line the laste Tâ—â—erius reade Liberius 19.4 you reade the and line 10. Ca. line 58. reade Carolines 8. and line 19. Mercamas r. Marranias 22.9 fauour reade honor â—3 26 the prince reade the printers 24.1 put out and. 25.9 not for his r. for his 29.10 vnitie of minde r. vnitie of faith minde 30.3 in the places aboue rehearsed in diuerse places of his epistles a. lib. 3. epist. 14. and 15.16 c. 41.30 Rhenes r. Rhemes 49.5 the the r. that the. the 12. r. the Catho c. 52.13 in Brytish reade in the Brytish 63.14 about the articles r. about the chiefest articles 64.20 put out that hilde and the 24. here rea sore 67.21 vvhich can not rea vvhich you can not 68.4 in a name reade in a manner 69.4 prorsus opinemur r. prorsus non opinemur and 34. vniuersally r. vniuersalitie and 36 vvhich you do r. vvhich you do not 70.17 proponeÌ„da r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rÄ™a vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you savv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97. â— your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vâ—icè AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity VVE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme
that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and teaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures
all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue
The 7. article conteineth 3. demaundes 1 Further I aske them what Church that is which hath brought forth out of her wombe so many noble personages of Martyrs Confessors Doctors Virgines and holy Sainctes of all sortes all which both they and we doe outwardly professe by the continuance of the Callendare which yet is vsed euery where to be Sainctes in heauen FVrther I aunswere you that all true Sainctes whether they were Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euāgelistes Martyrs Confessors Doctors Scholars Virgins wiues widowes married or vnmarried are all children of that Church in whose fellowship we reioyce to be and are our deare brethren and sistern begotten in Iesu Christ by the gospell and we all hold of one head Iesus Christ as members of his mysticall body We all beleue to be receaued into that glory that they are by the onely meane that they were that is by the mercie of God in Christ Iesus But as for the continuance of the Callendar we haue litle respect vnto it yea no regard at all to vse it either as a recorde or as a register of those whom we acknowledge to be Sainctes in heauen Let the Prince make you aunswere for the continuance of such callēders for we haue not to do with them Neuerthelesse because you speake of a Callendar that is vsed euery where you declare that you haue small experience in Callendars for euery cuntry hath them diuers in most dayes except holy dayes and in some cuntry Callendars such dayes are festiuall to those Saincts that haue not their names in Callendars of other cuntries yea it may be doubted whether they haue their names in the booke of life If you sawe a Bohemians Callendar perhaps if you shoulde see Iohn Hus and Ierom of Prage which your church condemned for heretikes and haue as solemne feastes in the Callender as Peter and Paule wherefore we acknowledge those to be Sainctes in deede not whose names are continued in the Callendars of men but are written in the booke of life of the Lambe that was slaine from the beginning of the worlde Apoc. 13. 2 And if it can be proued by any man of the Protestancy that these were either of the Protestants Congregation or beleefe when they were aliue IT is sufficiently proued against you of the Papistrie that all they whome we acknowledge to be Sainctes in heauen are members of the same mysticall bodie of Christ that we are and hold the onely foundation that we hold which is Iesus Christ and although some of them builded straw and stubble vpon the same foundation yet the Lorde hath not imputed it unto them But wheras the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles were cheefe lightes and pillers of the church of Christ the daye is yet to come and euer shal be that all you of the Papistrie shal be able to charge vs with one pointe of our faith contrary to the doctrine of the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles 3 Or canonized and allowed for Sainctes by the Protestantes Church when they were deade or by any other Church then I recant OVr Church doth take all them that shew the fruicts of a liuely faith to be Sainctes while they be aliue as well as after their death and we say with Dauid All my delight is in the Sainctes that are in the earth Psal. 16. and with S. Paule VVe labour to comprehend with all Sainctes what is the length breadth depth and heigth and to know the loue of Christ Ephes 3. Finally the scripture teacheth vs to call all them that are sanctified in the bloude of Christ and called to the felowship of the Gospell holy and Sainctes of God. 1. Cor. 1. Ephes 1. c. Wherefore your Popish church doth great iniury to the Sainctes of God first because she doth not so accompt them while they liue and secondly because she referreth the canonization of them only to the Pope who not for their holy life maketh them Sainctes but for the holy honger of golde as appeare by Pope Iuly 2. who woulde not canonize king Henry the sixt at the request of king Henry the seuenth vnder an vnreasonable summe of money If that summe of money had bene paide he shoulde haue bene a sainct though he had not deserued not for his vertue And because that summe of money was not paide he might not be canonized although his godlinesse neuer so much deserued Againe of what force your Canonization is to be esteemed we may learne by a fact of Pope Boniface the 8. who condemned digged vp and burned the bodie of Hermannus in Ferraria 30. yeares after his buriall who had bene worshipped for a sainct aboue 20. yeares before as witnesseth Platina and other Gregorie the seuenth canonized Pope Liberius which was an Arrian as S. Hieronym testifieth Moreouer if I shoulde likewise demande of you what Pope canonized Peter Paule and the rest of the Apostles yea most of the Martyrs of the primitiue Church you shall neuer be able to shew me either what Pope did it or that any Pope did it For seeing none may canonize but the Pope in your church and you can not proue that the Pope hath canonized the Apostles and cheefe Martyrs you can not proue that your church hath canonized the Apostles and principall Martyrs But it is manifest that your canonization is taken from the heathen Senate of Rome which chalenged authority to make Gods whome they them selues thought best And if I shoulde rippe vp the most parte of those Sainctes which haue bene canonically canonized by the Pope it were an easie matter to finde them heretikes traitors Necromancers Whoremongers and whores as you may reade in Bales Votaries aboundantly beleuing his reporte no farther than he alleageth his Author where you maye finde it Wherefore it were wisedome for you not to depend vpon the Pope his Canonization but vpon God his approbation and to recante The 8. article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 And because Christ as S. Paule sayeth hath established in his Church some Apostles some Prechers some Teachers and Doctors euen vntill his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is able to shew proue the continuance and vse of the saide functions euer sence Christes time by plaine accompt of orderly Succession I Aunswere the Papist that Christ hath geuen to his Church some Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastors and Teachers Ephes 4. and 1. Cor. 12. And we are able to shew proue that we continue in that vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God for which ende such offices were ordeyned But whereas you require that we should shew you the continuance of those functions by orderly succession from Christes his time vntill our dayes you declare how small skill you haue in vnderstanding the scriptures for the offices of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophetes were not appoincted to continue alwayes in the Church but for a time vntill the Gospell had taken roote in the worlde Moreouer whereas you requier an orderly
succession according to persons or places you are neuer able to proue that any such thing was promised to the Church that we should shew you the performance there of in our Church Otherwise we doubt not but God hath alway stirred vp some faithfull teachers that haue instructed his Church in the necessarie poinctes of Christian Religion Although the worlde and the church of Antichrist did not alwayes see them 2 And is able to name you by the histories of all ages the notable personnes of all the forsaide states in their gouernment and ministerie A Gaine I answere you that you are not able to name me any text of scripture by which you can proue that al these offices must haue perpetual cōtinuance in the church of Christ nor yet that any of them should kepe an ordinarie succession of place or persons But contrariwise seeing it was prophecied that the church should flie into the wildernes that is be driuen out of the sight and knowledge of the wicked and be so narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a longe season it were a token our church were not the true church if we could name such notable persons as you speake of in all ages florishing in their gouernment and ministerie And it is a good argument that the Popish church is not the church of Christe because it was neuer hidden sence it first sprang vp in so much that you can name all the notable persons in all ages in their gouernment and ministerie and especially the succession of Popes you can reherse in order vpon your fingers in which beadroole neuerthelesse you must name many tyrants many traytors one whore many whoremongers many Sodomites many murtherers many poysenors many sorcerers and Necromancers and from Boniface the third all blasphemous heretikes and Antichristes But our church which hath not had so many registers chroniclers and remembrancers hath perhaps fewer but yet honester men to name we can name Peter Paule Mathew Iohn c. Marke Luke Timothe Agabus Epaphras c. Instinus Irenaeus Cyprianus Athanasius Hylarius Ambrosius Augustinus c. Gyldas Bertramus Marsilius de Padua Ioan. de Ganduno Bruno Andagauensis VVickleue Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage c. With the first namely Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets we consent wholly in all pointes of doctrine with the rest in the cheefe and most substantiall articles of faith alwayes agreeing with any man so farre as he agreeth with the worde of God. 3 And if he can proue vnto me that their Church hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that any Church or Congregatiō but ours hath kept that charge thē I recant FOr some of those officers I haue twise aunswered before that they were not ordeined to continue alwaies with the church wherefore they are not to be exacted of vs but such officers as are necessary for the conseruation of God his people in the vnitie of faith and the knowledge of Christ our Church hath neuer lacked although in time of the great defection and Apostasie whereof S. Paule doth prophesie 2. thess. 2. there were but few as there were but fewe members of Christ his Church notwithstanding that through iniurie of the time the remembraunce of all their names is not come vnto vs And although we could rehearse in order as many successions in our Church as the papistes boast of in theirs yet were that nothing to proue it to be the Church of Christ which must be tried onely by the Scriptures as S. Augustine sayth in his booke de vnitate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes cap. 16. Sed vtrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod Ecclesiae sumus quia ipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus Optatus vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius vel alij innumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopi c. But whether they holde the Church or no let them shew none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not therefore say that men must beleeue vs that we are in the Church because we hold the same Churche which Optatus of Mileuitum hath commended or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable Bishops of our communion Euen so we require at the Papistes handes that shewe them selues to holde the Church not by succession of Bishops or rehearsing of their names but onely by the Scriptures for although we did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly succession on our side we would not require men to beleue vs but onely because we proue the doctrine of our Church by the authoritie of the Scriptures But as for the popish church neyther hath nor euer had any of those officers which S. Paule speaketh of for Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets she can chalenge by no reason seing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine vttered in their writings in steede of pastors reachers she hath wolues dūme dogges or false prophets which either teach not at all or else teach the doctrine of deuills the dreames of men And further I would desire none other place in all the Scripture to ouerthrow the popish Hierarchie which is the greatest glory of their Church then this place of Paule Ephes 4. he speaketh of Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and teachers But where are Popes Cardinalls popish archbishops Bishops Preestes Deacōs Subdeacons Exorcistes Cantors Acolyts Ostiares Monkes Friars Chanōs Nunnes c. Wherfore I cōclude that all these popish orders are no offices in the Church of Christ And especially seeing the Apostle both in this place Eph. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. by these offices proueth the vnitie of minde he acknowledgeth no Pope as one supreme head in earth which might be very profitable as the Papists say to mainteine this vnity for if there had bene any such office appoynted of God S. Paule in no wise woulde haue omitted it especially when it made so notably for the confirmation of his purpose which was vnitie To conclude if it be sufficient or any thing worth to rehearse the names of them that haue orderly succeded in all ages in the bishops sees in an outwarde face of the Church the Greeke Church is able to name as many as the Latine Church and in as orderly succession Wherefore if you be as ready to performe as to promise you recant The nynth article may be deuided into nyne demaundes 1 And for the necessary vse and execution of the foresayd offices they must further be asked what Sacramentes the Protestants ministred for the space of a thousand yeares togither in which they confesse their congregations to haue bene neare or else wholy hidden THey ministred those Sacramentes which Christ did institute namely the Sacrament of baptisme and the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ at such times as the cruell tyrannie of you Papistes did not hinder them to come togither for such purposes 2 VVhat correction they kept and discipline
maintenance of yours I will let you vnderstande what I haue reade for this purpose Not doubting but other which haue reade much more and seene more auncient histories than I can shew you a great deale more I passe ouer as to well knowen how many of the Grecian Emperors resisted the setting vp of Images in so much that in the Greeke church to this daye they can abide none in their temples likewise I passe ouer Charles the great who wrote a booke against Images which is in printe who also declared that he liked not the heresie of the reall presence and transubstantiation which in his time was in forging in that he called Bertrame to declare his minde of that matter as appeareth by his booke which is also in printe I will not rehearse those princes that contrary to the Popes lawes defended their priestes that were maried For although these and such like defended some parte of the trueth which we holde against you yet lest you should obiect it was but in some one or two pointes I passe them ouer with silence But VVickleue I wene you will not deny but he was of our Church and Religion And I reade that king Edward the third both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini 1371. and at other times with diuers other noble men defended his cause in so much that so long as he liued all the popish byshops coulde do him no harme yet did he openly inueigh against the Pope calling him Antichrist and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatiō both in the vniuersitie of Oxeford where he was reader and also in his sermons abroade as appeareth by his bookes and English homilies which yet are cōmon to be seene w vnlesse he had bene supported and maintained by the kinge and other potentates coulde neuer haue continued so long as he did Further haue you not hearde of Zisca and Procopius two mighty Capitaines which defended the Bohemians from the tyrannie both of the Emperour the Pope and almost all the Princes of Germanie For what cause did Paule the second Anno Domini 1466. condemne George a noble and a worthy Prince king of Bohemia for an heretike and depriued him of his kingdome was it not for defending the Protestantes in his dominion Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates haue not onely offered but haue in deed taken in hand to defend our church which you thought vnable to be shewed wherfore I chalenge your promise you must recante The 11. article is so confuse that it is harde to bring it into any certeine numbre of demandes 1 Againe I requier of the Protestants to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelihoode when the true church as they compt theirs decayed I Answer euen in the Apostles time there arose many heresies which did not a litle trouble the Church but immediatly after the Apostles time while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the craft of Satan some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupied in greater matters were either not espied or not regarded as may be knowen by the writinges of Iustinus Martyr and Irenaeus two of the most auncient writers sence the Apostles time Iustinus was in this error that he thought that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into Deuills It seemeth also that the Church in his time was in some error about second mariages and diuorcements Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ liued here 50. yeares which he sayeth was receyued of them that heard it euen of the Apostles mouthes Also both he and Papias which was before him and was the disciple of S. Iohn are charged by S. Ieronym in Catalogo Script Eccl to haue held this error that Christ should raigne a thousand yeares after the Resurrection here in the flesh whereby it is manifest seeing these auncient fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stayned with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times 2 VVhat yeare the Religion of the Papistes came in and preuayled ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entred into the church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the deuill planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist Yet we may well say that the religion of the Papistes came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obteyned his Antichristian exaltation which was in the yeare of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of mony obteyned of Phocas the trayterous murtherer and adulterous Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the Church Since that time that deuilish heresie hath alwayes increased in error vntill the yeare of our Lord 1414. in which the Councell of Constance decreed to robbe the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood From this time it hath againe decaied being mightely subdued by the bright beames of the Gospell shining in the world and at the length shall be vtterly destroyed 3 VVhether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none could preach against it as it first entred WHen the cōming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible the very elect should be deceiued and a general departing from the faith was foreshewed and the Church to be driuen into the wildernes what maruell were it if none of our Church could preach against it as it first entred yet because you speake of the first entring of popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie you shall heare that when it first began to aduaunce it selfe there wanted not some either to preach or write against it When Victor bishop of Rome about the yeare of our Lord 200. passed the bondes of his authoritie in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia many bishops withstoode him and especially Irenaeus bishop of Lyons and Policrates of Ephesus as witnesseth Eusebius libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian also reproueth Cornelius bishop of Rome for that he was moued by threatning of heretikes to receiue their letters did not send them backe into Africa to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus bishop of Rome was bold to communicate with Basilides and Martialis two Spamards that were iustly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their owne prouince sought to restore them Cyprian and his felow bishops of Aphrica being required to giue their aduise gaue counsell that in no wise they shoulde be receiued not a litle blaming Stephanus that beinge far of and ignorant of their cause he would take vpon him to defend such wicked men lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus threatned excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches
for the speciall intent of the builders was not prepared in all sortes for Popish practises Although I could name many yet for examples sake I name Pantheon a church in Rome prepared by the speciall and onely intent of the builders for Cybelle the great mother of the gods and for all false gods of the heathen which now is called the church of Mary and Alhalowes Then this church with many other in Rome and other places being monuments of the faith and religion of the Paganes and not of yours except yours and theirs be all one as they are very like you are bounde by your promise to recant The 15. article conteyneth in effect 3. demandes 1 Againe name any one company of men in the Christen world that in all articles of Faith be in one meaning and belefe IT is an easie matter to name diuers companies agreeing in one meaning beliefe as the church of the Grecians the church of the Aethiopians the church of the Chaldeans Moscouites c. But especially the whole company of Protestantes in Europe doe agree in all necessary articles of true faith by which we are iustified 2 Or in thinges where they doubt be contented to submit their seuerall meaninge to the iudgement of their Superiours THe Greeke church in doubtes will be ruled by the Patriarch of Constantinople and so will the rest of the Orientall churches by their cheefe Patriarches and bishops And the Protestants in Europe will also be ruled by their Superiours so farre as their superiors are ruled by Gods his worde 3 And to that communion and companie wherof they be name any companie of men agreeing and thus humbly affected in Christes Religion sauing the blessed fellowship and members of the Catholike communion and I recant TO the communion and company of the Grecians I name the Moscouites and Russians agreeing in Religion and so humbly affected and these are not of the fellowship that you call the Catholike communion Among the Protestants to the church of Saxonie I name the church of Dennemarcke or to the church of Heluetia the church of France or to the church of England the church of Scotlande but so that none of these allow any consent or submission but to the Truth which must be tried onely by God his worde And seeing none of these are of the Popish communiō if your promise be any thing worth you must recant The 16. article conteyneth one demande and one chalenge Furthermore name any one man that is confessed on both sides by the iudgement of the world to be holy and learned a member of the true Church in what age soeuer you list sence Christes time and proue him to haue bene in all articles of Faith of the Protestants meaninge SEeing you geue so large scope I will name S. Paule who I thinke is cōfessed on both sides to be holy and learned and a member of the true Church whome I can proue by his writinges that in all articles of faith he taught the same which we beleeue And for triall of this because it woulde requier a whole volume if I shoulde proue euery particular article wherein we dissent from you Papistes If you will name an article wherein we agree not with S. Paule If I be not able to proue that we agree with him in the meaninge thereof I will reuoke that article and agree with you therein Yea if I bring not the aduersaries them selues to acknowledge in the ende him to be wholy against their doctrine in diuers of articles of great importance and therefore that he coulde not be of their church I recant YOu shall neuer bring vs neither in the beginning nor in the end to acknowledged that S. Paule is against vs in any article of our Faith but we agree wholy with him Neuerthelesse I know what you meane will not be afraide to vtter Forasmuch as immediatly after the Apostles time corruption entred into the Church which was hardly kept out while they liued as we maye learne by the Epistle to the Corinthians you thinke that we dare not depende vpon any one mans iudgement and therein you are not deceiued for we must depende onely vppon Gods worde But where you saye there is none but he dissenteth from vs in diuers articles of great importance you saye vntruely for you are not able to proue that Iustinus Martyr or Irenaeus two of the most ancient authenticall writers that the Church next vnto the Apostles had are against vs in any point of doctrine wherein we differ from you Yet are there certaine errors in them which neither you nor we allow as is touched before in the answere to the 11. article 1. deman But they are both wholly against you in diuers articles of your doctrine and namely in transubstantiatiō which is one of the greatest articles of Poperie as Irenaeus in the 34. cap. of his 4. booke Contrahaereses Quemadmodum enim qui est a terra panis c. Euen as the breade which is of the earth after it hath receyued the inuocation of God is not now common breade but the Eucharistie or breade of thankes geuing consisting of two thinges earthly heauenly so our bodies receyuing the Eucharistie are not now corruptible hauing hope of resurrection Here you see plainely that Irenaeus affirmeth the sacrament after consecration to consist of the earthly substance of breade which maye better be vnderstoode when we know that he reasoneth against such heretikes as denied the world to be made by God saying that he woulde neuer haue made so great a mysterie of bread which is a creature of the world if the worlde had not bene made by him Iustinus in his second Apologie to the Emperour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We doe not receiue these thinges as common breade and a common cuppe but euen as Iesus Christ our Sauiour was incarnate by the worde of God and tooke vpon him flesh and bloude for our saluation So we are taught that this meate for which thankes is geuen by the worde of prayer from him of which our fleshe and bloude are nourished by transmutation is the fleshe and bloude of Iesus that was incarnate Here he plainely affirmeth that the substance of the Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of our bodies Therfore it remaineth still after the consecration The other writers of later yeares as they haue some errors which neither you nor we doe allow in them so we are not afraid to confesse that they haue some corruption wherby you may seeme to haue colour of defence for inuocation of Sainctes prayer for the dead and diuerse superstitious and superfluous ceremonies yet not so addict to these nor ioyned with such absurdities as yours are But for the chiefe pointes of Christian Religion and the foundation of our faith that is for the honour of God the offices of Christ Redemption Iustification Satisfaction the fruites of Christ his passion Grace faith workes authoritie of God his word authoritie of
the Pope reall presence transubstantiation Communion in both kindes Images c. the most approued writers Tertullian Cyprian Origen Epiphanius Hilarius Chrysostomus Ieronymus Ambrosius Augustinus c. are vtterly against you and therfore can not be of your church But for as much as they hold the foundation that is Christ though they haue diuerse errors superstitions they were doubtles the members of the true Church of Christ which because you are not able to disproue reason would you should recant The 17. Article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 I aske of them whether the Lutherans Zuinglians Illirians Caluenistes Confessionistes Swenkefeldians Anabaptistes and such like be all of one Church BEcause you would make simple men beleue that there be so many diuerse sectes of Protestantes as you haue giuen them names I will first discusse these sectes and afterwarde aunswere your question Lutherans you meane them that follow Luthers opinion of the Sacrament Zuinglians follow Caluines iudgement of the same Confessionistes them that exhibited their confession at Auspurge which were both the Lutherans and Zuinglians so these 3. names may be contracted into two Lutherans and Zuinglians As for Illyrians if you call them of Flaccius Illyricus they be Lutherans in opinion of the Sacrament and differ onely in ceremonies which can not diuide them from the faith Caluine and they that be of his iudgement agree plainly with Zuinglius so that of fiue names there remaine but two sortes differing in opinion whereunto you ioyne the Swenkefeldians and Anabaptistes Now to your question these be not all of one Church for the Swenkefeldians Anabaptists be detestable heretiks but the Lutherans Zuingliās as it pleaseth you to cal thē are of one true church although they differ in one opinion cōcerning the Sacramēt for although the one affirme a real presence the other deny it yet they both cōsent in this that the body of Christ is receiued spiritually not corporally with the hart and not with the mouth Wherfore this dissention is not so great though there be error on the one side but that they may be both of the Church of Christ as well as S. Cyprian the Martyr and all the Bishops of Africa and a great many of Asia differing with Stephanus bishop of Rome and the rest of his opinion in rebaptizing such as were baptized by heretiks 2 And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one Church WE haue alwaies abhorred the heresies of the Anabaptistes Libertines Swenkefeldians Dauidians Seruitians and all such But that Luther Zuinglius may be both of one Church differing onely in one opinion of the Sacrament is declared before 3 Or that each of their sects may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with an other in high points of our Religion SAluation is the gift of God and not in the power of any company or sect of men but this we affirme that out of that Church whereof we count Luther and Zuinglius notwithstanding their diuerse opinions which is but in one matter of the Sacrament to be members there is no saluation 4 Or that I should beleue all these rather then the Catholike Church or one of these more then another all making such a bold chalenge of the truth and Gospell NO man requireth you to beleue all these but the true Catholike Church onely Neither doe we require you to beleue any one company of men more then an other but to beleue the trueth before falshood Now which of them hath the truth that they all brag of you must search in the word of truth desiring the spirite of truth that you may vnderstand and beleue the truth and so without doubt you shall come to the knowledge of the truth and of the Church of God which is the piller and stay of truth 5 Let the Protestants of all these kindes put their heades together and shew me a reason of these thinges and with all let them among them selues agree to what sorte of these sectes they woulde haue me and I will recant SVch is your impudencie in this matter as in all other that you woulde make men beleue that the Anabaptistes Swenkefeldians Libertins and other abhominable heretikes be Protestantes But it is well that you can make none but fooles thinke so as for the Protestantes they neede take no great deliberation to aunswere your demandes but you had more neede to laye your heades together to reconcile the Thomistes Albertistes Ockamistes Scotistes Reales and Nominalls which be all sectes of Papistes and especially your Canonistes and diuines about the articles of your religion that is whether the Pope be aboue the Councell or the Councel aboue the Pope Whether the Pope may erre and not the Councell or whether the Councell maye erre and not the Pope These two the Popes determination and the Councells determination being the rules of trueth in your religion and not agreed vpon how can any trueth be certeine in your Church At for Luther and Zuinglius they agree vpon one rule of trueth that is the worde of God and differ onely for the applying or laying of this rule yet but in one matter that not the greatest But you Papists some holding of the Pope and some of the Councell as rules of truth can haue no ground nor certainty thereof Therefore if you woulde haue me or any man to be of your belefe First determine how I shal know when I am in a right beleefe one sayeth if the councell alloweth it an other sayeth if the Pope alloweth what shall I doe when one of these is against an other yea when one Pope is against an other and one councell against an other shall I thinke that trueth changeth so often as they change Moreouer when one Pope graunteth that the councell is aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Likewise one councell graunteth that the Pope is aboue the councell and that the councell may erre as it hath bene within the 200. yeares the councells of Constance and Basill determined that the councell was aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Contrariwise the councell of Ferraria and Florence determined that the Pope was aboue the councell and that the councell might erre Martinus 5. the Pope chosen by the councell of Constance was of the same iudgement that the councell But Eugenius 4. that gathered the councell of Ferraria and Florence against the councell of Basill was of the contrarie iudgement Nowe I woulde saye he were a wittie fellow that coulde reconcile this geare together For if he be a Canonist that holdeth this opinion that the Pope can not erre whē the Pope him self graunteth that he may erre which waye shall he turne him selfe For if this proposition be true the Pope can not erre then this is true also that the Pope may erre for if he can not erre he can not erre in saying so And if the Pope erred in
wheras you say that the popish church practiseth all holy functions that Christ left for the saluation of his Church it is most false for first you doe not preach remission of sinnes in the bloode of Christ onely for either you preach not all or else you preach remission of sinnes in any thing rather then the onely merites of Christ as in mens owne merites workes of supererogation pardons masses beggarly ceremonies as holy water auriculer confession c. Secondly you minister not the Sacraments purely according to Christ his institution but either corrupt and defile them with mans traditiōs as you do Baptisme or else cleane chaūge the vse of them as in the Lordes Supper which you make a Sacrifice an idoll a Priestes breakfast and defraude the people of the one halfe of the sacrament as though you were wiser then he that instituted it in both kindes Thirdly discipline you haue conuerted into tyranny and couetousnes reteyning nothing but the name of it alone Wherefore seeing you exercise no holy function after Christ his institution but cleane contrary to the same and doe obstinately defend the filthy whore of babylon against the cleare light of the Gospell the true spouse of Christ ye shall be damned except you recant The 23. article conteyneth 2. demandes 1 Againe shew me any Church or imagin if you can by good reason a church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching no spirite of prophesying no rodde of correction no order of ministring nor any spirituall functiō that can be named proue me that there should be a true Church for a thousand yeares together and lacked all these thinges YOu would faine haue a great nombre of Articles and therefore you bring in one matter often times in diuers phrase of words that it might seeme a new matter when it hath bene vttered twise or thrise before as this Article is conteined before in the 5.8 and 9. Articles where you shall finde it more largely aunswered But let vs see what this strange demande requireth we must shew him a church or els imagine by good reason a church of Christ without preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares together Although we will not graunt that it hath so longe continued without these exercises yet because you geue vs leaue to imagine we can imagine that it may as well continue without publike preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares as it did for three hundred yeares before Constantine But you will say there was preaching ministring and correcting though it were not knowen to the tyrantes and persecutors so say I vnto you for that thousand veres there was gathering together for preaching ministring and correcting though the Pope and his persecuting Prelates coulde not alwayes see it nor come to the knowledge of it for if they had once intelligence of it they smarted for it as is knowen by the stories of the Waldenses Bohemians c. Furthermore continuall exercise of preaching ministring of sacramentes and executing of discipline are notes of a quiet and peaceable Congregation not of a dispersed persecuted and disquieted Church How often doth S. Cyprian cōplaine that the brethren could not be gathered togither for executing of discipline whereby it is certeyne that likewise they coulde not be gathered togither for other exercises Therefore the intermission of these exercises in a persecuted Church doth not proue the same to be no true Church But where so euer there be two or three gathered togither in the name of Christ there is he in the middest of them But whereas you require the spirite of prophesie except you meane the gift of interpreting the Scriptures the Church in the most quiet and flourishing state may want the spirite of shewing things to come as well as the giftes of tongues healing c. 2 And withall that there was an other vntrue Church which for those many dayes onely practised to the saluation of many all these offices and geue me a good reason why this Church that alwayes hath had these thinges should be a false Church and the other that wanted them to be a true Church and I recant WE vtterly denye that beside the true Church there was an vntrue church that practised those offices to the saluation of any man for once againe I tell you you haue neither the preaching of the word nor ministring of Sacraments nor execution of discipline according to the truth of God his institution but either altogither changed or else greatly corrupted And whereas you say that the popish church onely hath practised these offices I aske you againe whether the Greeke Church be a parte of your Church and whether the Papistes in England be a part of your Church The Grecians you will say are not but the English Papistes are Then haue I founde out by your owne iudgement the Church of the Grecians practising these offices being an vntrue church the church of the English Papistes not practising the same yet graunted of you to be a true Church Therfore you are bound to recant The 24. article conteyneth 10. demandes 1 Moreouer let any man shew how that Church can be the piller of truth which durst not for a thousand yeares clayme either preaching of Gods word or ministring of Sacramēts or shew her selfe against falshood or superstition AS the number of your articles doth draw to an ende so your matter is farre spent and therefore to make vppe your number you must repete one thing twise This demaund is conteined before in the 11. and 12. articles where also it is fully aunswered Notwithstanding seeing it commeth againe it shal be briefly aunswered in this place The Church is not called the piller of truth because it should stand alwayes in the sight of the world for then the defection which S. Paule speaketh of could not haue come neither should the Church flie into the wildernes as was declared to S. Iohn But it is called the piller of truth because that where so euer the Church is either visible or inuisible there is the truth So though the Church were hidde a certeyne time in the wildernes yet there was trueth with the Church You seeme to be a good Arithmetrician for no number soundeth in your mouth but a thousand Neuerthelesse how long so euer it was the piller of truth decayed not And as God gaue his spirite diuers times was bold to chalenge preaching and ministring of the Sacraments yea and so boldly that it cost many of the chalengers their liues As Berengarius Bruno Marsilus de Pandua Ioannes de Gaudano Ioannes VVickleffe VValdo Ioannes Hus Ieronymus de Praga c. Thus it is manifest that the Church hath diuers tymes chalenged her right and withstood falshood 2 Let any man shew that all giftes of the spirite and functions of the holy Ghost haue bene taken from her a thousand yeares togither and onely practised to the peoples vse by an aduouterous Church THere is no
man can shew this for it is a false lye that all giftes of the spirite function of the holy Ghost were either taken from the true Church or giuen to the adulterous church And this hath bene shewed more then once or twise before 3 Let it be declared how the gates of hell haue not preuailed or Christes promise and warrant for her not bene voyd frustrate if a bastard Church exercising idolatry as they say hath spoyled the true Church of all holy actions and the whole gouernment and the whole name of Christianitie almost euer since Christes tyme. THe Deuill hath bent all his force and ordinance he hath armed all the power of darkenesse he stirred vp ryrantes heretikes Popes Saracenes and Turkes to destroye the Church the dragon that olde serpent Satanas the Deuill stoode before the woman to deuoure her childe he persecuted her into the wildernesse he cast out of his mouthe a great riuer to cary her awaie he made warre with the rest of her seede that keepe the commaundementes of god Apoc. 12. but yet in despight of the deuill the Pope and all her enemies she is to this day preserued and shal be to the worldes end Therefore the gates of Hell haue not preuailed against her nor the promise of Christ hath failed And whereas you say that your bastard church hath spoiled her of all holy actions gouernment and Christian name it is a most impudent lye as it is true that you sawe a bastard church vsurped her holy name counterfaicted her holy actions and turned her gouernment into tyrannie 4 Let me see therefore howe the onely dearling and spouse of Christ shoulde be neglected of him so long SHe hath not bene neglected of him but felt his continuall aide he hath geuen her safe deliuerance of her childe taken it vp from the crueltie of the Dragon he hath prouided her a place in the wildernesse he hath made warre with the Dragon for her sake and driuen him out of heauen he hath geuen her Eagles wings to flie into the wildernesse he hath caused the earth to swallow vp the water that shoulde haue caried her awaie he hath geuen the remnant of her seede Victorie ouer the Dragon Finally his mercifull protection and louing care ouer her hath neuer more notably appeared than that against so many daungers and enemies all this while he hath preserued her vntill such time as he hath thought good now to bring her out of her secret place in the wildernesse into the open sight of the worlde againe 5 Let the aduersarie shew that the Church shoulde euer by superstition and falshood commit adultery or be deuorced from him THe true church consisting of God his elect and the liuely members of the bodie of Christ shall neuer commit such adultery that she shal be diuorced from him But the visible church by Idolatrie and superstition may separate her selfe from Christ and be refused of him as God speaketh by Esay to the church of Ierusalem cap. 1. How is the faithfull Citie become an harlot It was full of iudgement and iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers Thy siluer is become drosse and thy wine is mixed with water Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues c. euen so maye he say to the church of Rome how is that faithfull church become an harlot true Faith and Religion haue dwelled in her but now Idolatrie and superstition thy siluer is turned into drosse and thy wine is mixed with water thou hast nothing pure and vncorrupted thy Princes be rebellious Antichristes c. Thus I haue shewed that the visible church may become an adulteresse and be deuorced from Christ 6 Or that Christ should euer want his spouse in earth THis hath bene often aunswered before Christ hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth though the blinde world can not alwayes see her or when they see her will not acknowledge her to be his spouse but persecute her as if she were an adulteresse 7 Or that he shoulde be a heade either without a bodie THese are but one thing in diuers phrases as he hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth so hath he neuer bene an heade without a bodie and seeing these wordes in this sence are relatiues for Christ is called a heade in respect of the Church which is his body and the Church is called a bodie in respect of Christ that is her heade I aunswere you by a rule of the Logicians No man knoweth a relatiue except he know the correlatiue thereof Therefore though Christ had a bodie in earth yet coulde it be knowen of none but such as knewe Christ the heade of that bodie Of whome when the Papistes were ignorant specially when they appointed an other heade in earth it is no marueill if they could not see the bodie of Christ though he haue neuer bene without it 8 Or such an vnknowne and small bodie THis hath bene answered immediatly before it sufficeth that it be knowne to Christ the head As he sayeth My sheepe heare my voyce and I know them Iohn 10. And to them that be of the members of the same body As for the rest it is not necessary that they should alwayes see it which will neuer acknowledge it Neither is it so smal as it is thought of it is dispersed in many places ouer all the worlde and yet fewe in comparison of the malignant church whose number is as the sand of the sea c. Apoc. 20. 9 Or that Christes only kingdom should become so cōtemptible NOthing else is to be looked for of the worlde but hatred and contempt as Christ him selfe sayth You shall be hated of all men for my names sake Matth. 10. S. Paule biddeth vs looke on our calling not many wise men according to the flesh not many mighty men not many noble men but God hath chosen the foolish thinges of this world to confound the wise and the weake of this worlde to consounde the stronge 1. Cor. 1. And what hath the true church to boast in but in the Crosse of Christ Gal. 6. than the which nothing is more shamefull contemptible or reprochefull to the wisedome of this worlde what knowledge or preaching hath the true church but Iesus Christ crucified which to the Iewes is an offence and to the Greckes foolishnesse but to them that be called both Iewes and Greekes it is the power and wisedome of God to euerlasting saluation 1. Cor. 1. Rom. 1. So that as the church in the sight of God and his Sainctes is most glorious and honorable so in the sight of the worlde it hath alwayes bene most base and contemptible 10 Or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singular prerogatines of Gods spirite shewe me these thinges and I recant THis also hath ben declared before in the second demande of this Article There be certeine singular prerogatiues which are not continually with God his Church as the gift of tongues
of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutiō she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers ceremonies as Sarum Yorke Bangor c. in England she hath not vnitie in faith for it is not yet determined of one of the greatest articles of Popish faith whether the Pope be aboue the church she hath no holy functions of God his spirite but prophane vsages of mens inuentions she hath no true miracles but the power of Antichrist in lying signes and wonders She hath nothing lesse then the true sense of God his worde which submitteth the same to her owne corrupt and changeable iudgement She is not bewtified with estates commended in Scripture as Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and Teachers but with Popes Cardinalls Monkes Chanons Fryers c. In steede of virgines she hath filthy strumpets her Nunnes or else such foolish virgines as bring no oyle in their lampes she hath no Martyrs but obstinate traytors as Becket Fisher More c. she hath no confessors of trueth though she haue ten thousand mainteyners of salshood and lyes Wherfore if these be the notes of the Catholike Church the Church of Rome can in no wise be that same 3 Proue vnto me that this is not the true Church or that we be not bound to obey this Church and no other in all controuersies and doubtes raysed either by the difficultie of the Scripture or by the vayne contention pride of heresie and I recant I Haue proued euen immediatly before that not one of those notes which you count to be markes of the true Church is proper to your Church And therefore it is not the truth neither ought it to be obeyed in any thing And as for doubtes that arise by difficultie of Scripture or contention of heresie must be resolued and determined as it is abundantly declared before onely by the Scriptures for the hard places of the Scripture must be opened by easie places and heretikes must be confuted by the Scriptures for there is neuer heresie but there is as great doubt of the Church as of the matter in question onely the Scripture is the stay of a Christian mans conscience which I woulde wish that you would truely embrace and recant The 27. article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Moreouer let any man proue vnto me that the true onely Church of God may at any time be voyd of God his spirite THe true and onely Church of Christ can neuer be voyd of God his spirite and yet she may erre from the truth and be deceiued in some thinges euen as there is no true Christian man that is voyd of God his spirite for he that hath not the spirite of Christ is none of his Rom. 8. yet may euery true Christian erre and be deceaued in some things according to the saying of the Scripture euery man is a lyar Wherefore the whole Church militant consisting of men which are all lyars may erre all togither as euery part thereof although neither the whole Church nor any true member thereof be voyd of God his spirite 2 Or falsely interprete any sentence of holy Scripture THis gentle offer must needes be taken I will proue vnto you that the church of Rome hath falsely interpreted diuers sentences of scripture and therefore by that which she hath done it cannot be doubted but that she may do it S. Augustine was in this error that he thought Infantes must receiue the sacrament of the body and bloude of Christ vnder paine of damnation and was deceiued by false interpretation of this scripture Except ye eate the fleshe of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloude c. Ioan. 6. This error and false interpretation he affirmeth to be common to all the Westerne church to Pope Innocent him selfe Contra duas epist. Pelag. ad Bonifacium lib. 2. cap. 4. cōtra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. Furthermore the second Councell of Nice how many textes of scripture doth it falsely interprete which it were to tedious to repete yet for examples sake I will reherse some of them God made man to his owne image Gen. 1. therefore we must haue images in the church No man lighteth a candle and setteth it vnder a bushell Math. 5. therefore images must be set vpon the altars As we haue heard so we haue seene in the City of our God Psal. 48. that is God must not be knowen by onely hearing of his worde but also by sight of images If these be not true interpretations I reporte me to you Beside these I will bring you a sentence of holy Scripture not onely falsely interpreted in sence but also falsified in wordes and concerning not a small matter but euen one of the cheefe articles of our Faith. It is written in the 10. chapter of the Gospell after S. Iohn the 29. verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My Father which gaue thē vnto me speaking of his sheep is greater than all This sentence hath the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the 3. where were present 70. Metropolitanes 400. Bishops 12. Abbates and 800. Priors commentualles in all 1300. Prelats falsified in wordes after this maner Pater quod dedit mihi maius est omnibus that is That which the Father hath geuen me is greater than all This sentence they alleage to proue that God the Father begetting his Sonne from euerlasting gaue his owne substance vnto him the wordes be in the 2. Canon Pater enim ab aeterno filium generando suam substantiam ei dedit iuxta quod ipse testatur Pater quod dedit mihi maius est omnibus At dici non potest quod partem suae substantiae illi dederit partem retinuerit ipse sibi cum substantia Patris indiuisibilis sit c. that is to say For the Father begetting his sonne from euerlasting gaue him his owne substance according as he himselfe witnesseth that which the Father gaue me is greater than all But it can not be said that he gaue
erred And if it may erre and be deceiued it selfe what man is he that neede to doubt Whether it maye iuduce any error among the people 4 Or approue any vnprofitable or hurtefull vsage among Christians IF the church had not approued many vnprofitable and hurtefull vsages among the people in S. Augustines time what neede had he to complaine that many of God his coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts were litle regarded mans presumptions so highely esteemed Sed hoc nimis doleo c. But herewithall I am to much greued that many thinges which in God his booke are most holsomly commanded are lesse regarded and all thinges are so full of so many presumptions that he is more greuousely reproued which in his vtas hath touched the earth with his bare foote that he that hath buried his minde in dronkennesse Therefore if it be an vnprofitable and hurtefull vsage to preferre mans traditions before God his commaundementes the Church in S. Augustines time approued an vnprofitable and hurtefull vsage Furthermore if the Church can not approue an vnprofitable or hurtefall vsage wherefore are so many ceremonies as were approved in S. Augustines and S. Ambroses times abrogated and disanulled either because they were vnprofitable or else hurtful Last of all what superstitious vsages doth the church of Rome still approue euen such as the wiser sort of Papistes are ashamed of 5 Or that she suffereth any man damnably abusing her religion without open reprehension thereof proue any of these thinges and I recant THe true Church of Christ in such places as she is suffereth no man damnably abusing her Religion with out open reprehension as in the dayes of VValdo VVickleffe Husse c. whereof sufficient mention is made before but because she is not in all places at all times many men yea whole nations may damnably erre and not be reprehended of her As all the Mahometistes which occupie the greatest part of the world who doth or hath alwaies openly reprehended them And the Romish Church can well enough abide the true Religion of Christ to be damnably abused not onely without reprehension but also with allowing For when the Friars Dominicanes Franciscans had forged a newe Gospell out of the doctrine of Ioaâ—himus and the visions of Cyril which they called the Gospell of the holy Ghost the Gospell that should endure hereafter the euerlasting Gospell which diuilish gospell they affirmed to be so much more perfect then the Gospell of Christ as the Sunne is more perfect then the Moone a kernell of a nut before the shell yet did not the Church of Rome once reprehend it So that it was cultiued 55 yeares and at length set forth to be openly expounded in the Vniuersitie of Paris Anno Dom. 1255. without open reprehension of any but such as were counted heretikes for their labour As Gulielmus de S. Amore Gerardus Sagurellus c. And finally when the matter was brought before the Pope Anno Dom. 1256. by Gulielmus de S. Amore and other sent from the Vniuersitie of Paris the Pope and the Cardinalls tooke order that it shoulde be priuily burned and not openly reprehended for shaming their orders Mathaeus Paris Whereby it is clearely proued that the Romish Church hath suffered wicked men damnably to abuse Religion without open or priuie reprehension for the space of 55. yeares and at length without open reprehension when there was no remedie but it must needes be reprehended wherefore if there be any grace in you you will recant The 28. article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 If vnitie in Faith austeritie of life sharpe discipline great penance much fasting large almes godly deuotion obedience to higher powers grauitie and constancie in all cases be not the signes of the true Church IF you aske of true Faith repentance discipline c. these might be signes of the true Church but if you meane vnitie in any faith c as it seemeth by your wordes the Mahometistes and Turkes are the true Church for they haue vnitie in their faith austeritie of life sharpe discipline fasting almes deuotion obedience grauitie Constance c. as much or rather more then the popish church 2 Or be not more in our Church then in their Congregation I recant YOu haue not vnitie in true faith for you knowe not what it meaneth but are vtter enemies vnto it and in your owne principles there is no vnitie whether the Pope or the Councell be superior c. you may as all hypocrites pretende austeritie of life when you are most luxurious riotors as the world knoweth your discipline is not so sharpe but money wil make it blunt you haue great penance but no true repentance you haue much abstinence from meates which is the doctrine of diuills but you fast as litle as other men your almes are large but without faith and therefore sinne your deuotion is blinde and not godly but like her mother Ignorance you are disobedient to Christian Magistrates submitting your selues to Antichrist your grauitie and constancie in all cases is better commended of yourself then knowne of other men Wherefore being voyde euen of these which you make the signes of the true Church you are none of the true Church except you recant 3 But if discorde in religion licentiousnes in lyuing contempt of Discipline reiecting of penance lothesomnesse of fasting lacke of zeale and deuotion disobedience to Magistrates sacriledge apostacie breach of vowes vnlawfull lustes wantonnesse in all life and maners if these thinges I say agree not better to the Protestants than the Catholikes or if these be not the plaine signes and fructes of a false church and doctrine I recant WE acknowledge that in the outward face of our church be many hypocrites chargeable with these crimes that you speake of and we yelde our selues guiltie before God of greuous offences that our life is not aunswerable vnto our doctrine Neuerthelesse we doubt not but God for Christ his sake will haue mercy vpon vs But if in life and conuersation we be compared with you Papistes euen the cheefest of your church as Popes Cardinalls Byshoppes Monkes c. We dare approue our life to be honester both before God and men You shall neuer be able to charge vs with such ryot whoredome adulterie incest sodomitry bestiality murther poysoning necromancie apostasie blasphemie c. as both the worlde seeth to ouerflowe in your Prelates at this daye and we are able to bring forth of your owne Cronicles and Hystories to haue ben committed in times past wherefore for very shame leaue of this comparison We meinteine no stewes neither of males nor females we set forth no bookes in commendation of Sodomitry we exact no tribute of Courtisans to kepe open bawdrie we priuiledge no writinges that teache men to committe vylanie worthy of a thousand deathes Therefore be not so impudent to charge vs with these crimes aboue the Papistes but rather forsake that filthie whore the mother of all fornication and recant The 29. article conteyneth
8. demandes 1 Let any Protestant in the worlde proue vnto me that their church coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that no man aliue coulde name a place where any such church was WHy might not our Church when it was most hidden be as rightly called Catholike as the Church of the Apostles when it was so particular that it was cōteined in the narrow bondes of Iury for it is not called Catholike because it shoulde be euery where for that it neuer was nor shal be But because that where so euer it be in partes it is one body of Christ The Popish church is not in euery parte of the worlde For Mahomets sect is in the greatest parte Many cuntries are Idolaters and the most parte of them that professe the name of Christ are not in the felowship of the Popish church And whereas you saye that no man aliue coulde name the place where it was you make an impudent lye For although it were vnknowen to the Papistes and enemies thereof yet was it knowen to the true members therof It was in Italie whē Marsilius of Padua preached in France when VValdo preached at Lyons and there about In England when VVickliffe taught in Bohemia when Iohn Hus and Ieronyme of Prage did florishe 2 Or that it might be called holy which neuer had Baptisme or other sacramentes to sanctifie any of her followers withall IT had the spirite of God to sanctifie the true members of it and it had sacramentes to testifie the same Also did not the Bohemians baptise Were not pauperes de Lugduno baptised c. But if you count their Baptisme no Baptisme why did you not rebaptize in Queene Maries time all those that were baptized by our Church in King Edwards time 3 Or that it should be one which as soone as it grew vp in the world was diuided into so many sundry sectes NOne of vs will graunt you that our Church began first to grow when it was last brought to light and knowledge of the world for it hath continued euen since Christ But if there arose or were renewed many heresies with it that is no new matter but an olde practise of the deuill For as soone as the Church of Christ beganne to grow vp after his ascension euen in the Apostles time there were many sectes and heresies As the Iewes that mainteyned the lawe they that denyed the Resurrection among the Corinthians Hymenaeus and Philetus Simon Magus Cerinthus Ebion Marcion Basilides Valentinus Carpocrates c. So that there were many more heresies at the first preaching of the Gospell in and immediatly after the Apostles time then at the last restoring of the publike preaching therof vnto the worlde in our dayes And yet the Apostolike Church was one Church and so is ours at this day one and the same 4 Or that it might be called Apostolike which could neuer coūt by orderly sucession from any Apostle or Apostolike man. YOu are neuer able to answere the arguments that are brought to proue that Peter was neuer Bishoppe at Rome And then where is all your braggs of Apostolike sea and succession c. But be it that Peter was there except you proue succession of doctrine and faith as wel as succession of men your successiō is not worth a straw And our Church which holdeth all the doctrine of the Apostles and none other but the doctrine of the Apostles shall be truely called and founde the Apostolike Church when your with all her succession of Antichristes whore whoremongers heretikes Sodomites blasphemers coniurers c. shabe Apostaticall rather than Apostolicall 5 Or the secret base contemptible defaced and disordered Congregation was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all Nations HOw base and contemptible soeuer it be in the eyes of the wicked despisers of it yet did it not only require but also subdue all nations to the obedience of the Faith so many as were euer subdued in the dayes of the first Christian Emperors and before And sence when it was most defaced by the tyrannie of Antichrist it was of such maiestie that it both required and obteined the obedience of the realme of Bohemia and in processe of time hath obteined the obedience of almost all the nations of Europe If the churche of Rome reteine the like maiestie why doth it not now requier the like obedience of all nations both Christians and Turkes you will saye It requireth but it can not obteine Euen so I aunswere of our Church it hath alwayes bene worthy to requier but it hath not pleased God that it shoulde alwaies obteine 6 Or that it was euer able to gather generall Councels THe foure best generall Councells were gathered by our Church and the Emperors that were defenders of the same and not by the byshops of Rome Neither were they Presidentes in them as it is manifest that other men were Authors of the Canons or distinctions As of the Nicene Alexander Bishop of Constantinople of the Constantinopolitane Nectarius byshop of the Ephesine Cyrillus byshop of Alexandria of the Chalcedonense Anatolius of Constantinople c. and in other generall Councells where the bishop of Rome was president I aunswere as Iohn Patriarche of Antioche did in the Councell of Basile his presidence was Honoraria ad beneplacitum Concilij eis data non authoritatiua nisi ex concessione aut permissione habente vim concessionis aut ex tolerantia that is For honor sake graunted to them so long as it shoulde please the Councell and not of authority but either by graunt or permission being of the force of a graunt or els of sufferance And I conclude as he doth the Pope was neuer President either of honor or of authority but by the graunt or permission of the Councell And how is the Popish church able to gather general Councells at this daye who will come at her calling Except a few Spaniardes and a ioly company of buckram bishops of Italie generall Councells of all the worlde can neuer be gathered but either whē there is a Monarchie or els which is not to be looked for that all the Princes of the worlde will consent together 7 Or exercise Discipline BEcause this demande hath bene aunswered so often before I will saye the lesse nowe The free course of discipline in time of persecution may be hindred As it was in S. Cyprians time when the members of the Church be dispersed but the power of discipline hath alwayes remained and when occasion serued bene executed As the Bohemians excommunicated the Adamites and the ciuill Magistrates punished them by the sworde 8 Or that these names proper by scripture and Doctors of the true Church coulde be euer chalenged by any right to their saide Congregation AS many of these names as are proper to the Church by scripture or Doctors agreeing with scripture haue bene alwayes iustly chalenged of right to perteine to our Church and Congregation I meane these 1 Corpus
worde of trueth that she dare not be iudged thereby but most blasphemously submitteth the same to her corrupt and false iudgement maye iustly be called a false beleeuing church 27 Vna Sancta Catholica 28 Apostolica THis hath bene often proued before And namely in the first second third and fourth demandes of this last Article 29 Vxor de latere Christi sicut Eua de latere Adam AS S. Augustine sayeth The church of Christ is taken out of his side as Eue was out of Adams side which so long as she obeyeth the voice of her busbande is not deceiued by the serpēt But if she be absent from him that she be not instructed by him she is deceiued by heretikes Augusti De Genes contra Manichaeos libro 2. cap. 24. 26. by which place of Augustine it is proued that the Church may erre if she be not ruled by the worde of God. 30 Domus Pacis THe church may be called the house of Peace because there is in it Peace and agreement in the cheefest Articles of the Faith or because in it is taught vs the Peace and reconciliation wrought by Christ whereby we knowing that we are iustified by faith haue peace with god Rom. 5. But neither of these Peaces are in the church of Rome for there is dissention in doctrine and their doctrine dissenteth from the truth as for the peace of conscience is altogether vnknowen vnto Papistes euen as the iustification of Faith by which onely it is obteined 31 Domus Refugij THe house of Refuge or defence may also be applied to the Church out of which is no saluation And in whose bosome it becōmeth euery man to rest which shall looke for the refuge and defence of god But God forbidde that any man should seeke for refuge or helpe at your church which must be ouerthrowen with such violence as a great mylstone that is cast into the Sea and shal be founde no more Apoc. 18. 32 Domus Veritatis AS our church is the piller and staie of trueth so is she also the house of Trueth which knoweth nothing but him that is the Trueth it selfe Iesus Christ and his most holy Scripture In which this trueth is signed and testified But your Synagoge is the house of lyes where beside mens doctrines and traditions which are nothing but lyes there be also leaden legendes of lyes Promptuaries of lyes Festiuals of lyes and other infinite bookes of lyes 33 Societas Sanctorum HOw shoulde not our Church be the societie and fellowship of Sainctes which is sanctified and purged by the bloode of Christ which hath receiued the spirite of sanctification by which we crie Abba Father which is guided and gouerned by the most sacred and holy worde of god And how can the Popish church be the fellowship of Sainctes when she refuseth the sanctification of Christ his one oblation and sacrifice as sufficient to make them perfect which scorneth at the spirite of sanctification which can abide any thing rather than to be directed onely by God his holy worde Finally which acknowledgeth no sainctes but such as the most vnholy Pope for money doth canonize and make sainctes Proue vnto me therefore that these excellent and propre callinges can agree to any disordered companie or Congregation or to any vnknowen society of men but onely to the true Church of Christ spred throughout the whole worlde by Christes his promise and by vertue of his spirit continued in truth and grace from falshood sence Christes time and I recant AS many of these excellent names as in the worde of God or the doctors agreeing with the worde of God are propre or perteyning to the true Church of Christ so many haue I proued to be propre and perteyning to our most holy and well ordered Congregatiō And moreouer that they can in no wise be rightly applied to that most abhominable Idolatrous and disordered Synagoge of Rome which is vtterly departed from the faith geuing heede to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills being so liuely painted forth and euen pointed fotth by the scripture to be that Antichristian church whereof the holy Ghost prophesieth that no man except he will wilfully be blinde can be ignorant thereof so that if you be not starke blinde and geuen vp into a reprobate sence when you consider these thinges you will recant Let any man therefore aliue answer directly and plainly without colour or fraude of wordes and vnprofitable digressions to the foresayd or any of the foresayd demandes and I shall willingly leaue the knowne Church playne way of Saluation and wander in the woodes to seeke after them and their congregation IF you had not added this conclusion we might haue conceaued some hope that vpon further instruction in such matters as troubled your conscience you would haue ben contented to be reformed after God his worde and good counsell But now you declare that you are so obstinatly bent that what so euer be proued against you you will not receiue it as truth but yeld vnto it perforce As for me Although I know there are very many which with more learning and eloquence coulde haue aunswered your demandes yet being such as they are I submitte my selfe to the iudgement of all them that be learned and godly minded whether I haue not directly and plainely without colour or fraude of wordes without all digression aunswered the same so that I doubt not but as many as are tractable and stayed vpon these doubtes onely may be fully perswaded by these not very long and yet sufficient Answers THE ENDE In peregrinatione Religionis ergo 1. thess. 2. Math. 24.
weake and beggarly elementes because they are destitute of God his worde which onely is able to geue them strength and estimation as for your festiuities in the honour of creatures we doe likewise abhorre them we honour the Sainctes as S. Augustine sayeth for imitation but we do not worship them for Religion De vera Religione cap. 55. Where he also saith Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute We honor them with loue and not with seruice And as he doth often affirme that it is Idolatry to builde churches in the honour of Sainctes so is it as great Idolatry to institute festiuall dayes in the fauour of the same Sainctes As for the festiuall dayes that were vsed in the primitiue Church although they might haue bene omitted without any hurt of Christian Religion yet were they not kept in the honour of creatures as they are of the Papistes but only for the memorie of the Martyrs and other Saincts that their good life might be followed Your fastes are also abhominable for they are nothing else but abstinence from meates created of God to be receiued with thankesgeuing which S. Paule affirmeth to be the doctrine of Diuells 1. Tim. 4. Also your distinctions and varieties of seruice because they consiste most of blasphemous prayers to dead Sainctes and sometimes to damned spirites with foolish lessons responses versicles c. Lewde lies and vncertaine tales which you reade and sing as God his seruice they are all abhominable In vaine do they worship me saith our Sauiour Christ teaching for doctrine the preceptes of men Math. 15. Also it was decreed in the Councell of Laodicea the 59. chapter that nothing should be song or reade in the Church but the Canonicall bookes of holy Scripture wherefore if you demande whence your ceremonies festiuall dayes fastes and varieties of seruice did proceede I aunswere plainely out of the bottomles pit of hell 2 From whence did all thinges yet indifferently for most part obserued and allowed on both sides from whence did they proceede IF you had vttered what thinges you meane that are so indifferently allowed on both sides we might better haue aunswered but seeing you haue not we must coniecture what you meane if you meane any thinge that is allowed without controuersie on both sides it did either proceede from the scripture of God or from the primitiue Church or else it a thing meerely indifferent but if it haue no grounde in holy Scripture nor example of the primitiue Church nor iudged meerely indifferent it not indifferently obserued for the most parte nor yet allowed on both sides 2 And if it can be proued that the Protestants Congregation or any other Church but ours hath instituted and ordered all these or any of these for the comelinesse and honour of God his house I recant I Haue aunswered before that the Protestants Congregation geueth you leaue to bragge that you are the inuentors of all these Idolatrous superstitions false worshipping of God and yet because you offer so liberally to recant if it can be proued that any Church but yours hath instituted and ordered all these thinges you shall he are what can be saide First your great doctor Durande plainely affirmeth that many of your ceremonies and solemnities had not their first institution of your church but were taken of the Iewes or Gentiles And it may easily be proued that many of your ceremonies were instituted of heretikes as your holy water which you say you vse to put men in minde of their baptisme was deriued of the heretikes called Hemerobaptistae which were baptized euery daye Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 1. cap. 17. Of the Ossenes you tooke the great estimation of water salt oyle breade c. and vse to sweare by them as they did Epiph. contra Ossenes 19. Of the same heretikes you receiued the superstition of reliques for they vsed to take the spittle and other filth from the bodies of Marthys and Marthana which were of the seede of Elxai that is great Sainctes with them and vsed them to cure diseases as Erasmus witnesseth at Canterbury were kept the clowtes that Thomas Becket did occupy to wipe of his sweate and to blow his nose on which were kissed as holy reliques and thought also to be holsom for sicke folkes of the same heretikes you learned to commande the people to pray in an vnknowene tongue as Elxai the great Pope of those heretikes sayde Nemo quaerat interpretationem sed solum in oratione haec dicat Let no man seeke the interpretation but onely saye these wordes in his prayer Which wordes were in a strange tong either the Hebrue or the Arabike Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 1. haeres 19. Likewise the Marcosians when they baptized vsed to speake certaine Hebrue wordes that the ignorant people might maruell the more at them as you doe in Baptisme Ephata c. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haer 34. To make the Images of Christ and of the Apostles and to sense them you learned of the heretikes called Gnostici and CarpocratirÄ™ Epip lib. 1. Tom. 2. in the preface Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 2. haer 27. and Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 23. Of the Valentinians you learned to haue in price the signe of the crosse and to abuse the places of scripture for the same superstitious vse as God forbidde that I shoulde reioice but in the crosse of Christ c. Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 1. Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 2. haeres 31. Of the Heracleonites you learned to annoynte men at the point of death with oyle and balme and to cast water vpon dead men with inuocations Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres 36. Of the Cayanes you learned to call vpon Angels Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres 38. Of the Marcionistes you learned to giue women leaue to baptize Ep. lib. 1. Tom. Haer. 42. George Bishop of Alexandria inuented beares to carry deade corpses charging all men to vse them for his owne aduantage as doe you Papistes your bearing clothes other toyes for funerall pompes Ep. lib. 3. Tom. 1. Haer. 76. Of the Colliridianes you learned to make images of the virgine Marie worship them her with offering of candells c. as they did of cakes c. Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 79. Of the Messalians or Martirians you learned to shaue your beardes and to let your lockes grow long Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 80. Of the Pharizees you receaued your superstitious masking garments which you call amictus dalmaticus and pallia as witnesseth Epiphanius in his epistle to Acacius and Paulus Last of all what say you to the ceremonies festiuities fastes and solemnities vsed in the Greeke Church and in the other Oriental Churches if they be sufficient to make their church Catholike why doe you count them heretikes and Schismatikes if they be not sufficient why doe you reason of the institution of the like to proue your Church Catholike You see that proued which you desired play the honest man therfore and recant