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church_n apostle_n office_n presbyter_n 2,784 5 9.8519 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A92974 Flagellum flagelli: or Doctor Bastwicks quarters beaten up in two or three Pomeridian exercises, by way of animadversion upon his first booke, intituled, Independency not Gods ordinance. / By J.S. M.A. Published by authoritie. Sadler, John, 1615-1674. 1645 (1645) Wing S276; Thomason E298_25; ESTC R200240 16,323 26

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while_o it_o be_v intricate_a and_o then_o report_v it_o and_o have_v their_o assistance_n and_o concurrence_n and_o the_o letter_n of_o resolution_n run_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o brethren_n i_o the_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n ver._n 23._o and_o so_o in_o ordination_n {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o i_o election_n by_o lift_v up_o of_o the_o hand_n belong_v to_o the_o brethren_n 6._o tho_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o i_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o officer_n where_o there_o be_v officer_n as_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o complete_a 3._o that_o where_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v write_v to_o and_o exhort_v to_o a_o part_n of_o discipline_n that_o the_o officer_n only_o shall_v be_v intend_v as_o in_o confirmation_n of_o your_o assertion_n you_o afterwards_o affirm_v by_o the_o instance_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n we_o can_v no_o 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the_o apostle_n be_v flat_o 25._o contrary_a to_o the_o assertion_n of_o john_n himself_o and_o the_o apostle_n i_o baptise_v you_o with_o water_n say_v he_o but_o there_o come_v one_o after_o i_o who_o shall_v baptise_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o with_o fire_n 3._o therefore_o now_o by_o john_n baptism_n they_o be_v not_o all_o make_a christian_n no_o more_o than_o the_o body_n of_o the_o jew_n before_o john_n be_v turn_v christian_n by_o be_v baptise_v in_o the_o red_a sea_n etc._n etc._n for_o they_o be_v baptise_v into_o christ_n by_o their_o baptism_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o this_o baptism_n 3._o of_o john_n be_v to_o prepare_v man_n for_o christ_n and_o do_v bear_v a_o more_o immediate_a relation_n to_o such_o a_o work_n than_o any_o ordinance_n before_o but_o it_o do_v not_o make_v they_o absolute_a christian_n it_o do_v not_o absolve_v and_o perfect_v the_o new_a church_n i_o mean_v not_o so_o far_o as_o that_o ordinance_n of_o baptism_n be_v to_o do_v afterwards_o 4._o 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baptism_n fight_v against_o the_o true_a baptism_n and_o baptizer_n the_o lord_n jesus_n so_o that_o i_o conceive_v this_o argument_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o all_o the_o people_n receive_v john_n baptism_n will_v stand_v in_o little_a stead_n to_o prove_v the_o conclusion_n viz._n that_o they_o be_v make_v christian_n much_o less_o cast_v into_o a_o church-mould_n according_a to_o the_o new_a testament_n form_n and_o least_o of_o all_o that_o they_o be_v all_o member_n of_o one_o christian_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n but_o note_v a_o absurdity_n in_o the_o sequel_n of_o the_o discourse_n where_o the_o doctor_n have_v get_v a_o multiply_a glass_n in_o his_o hand_n go_v on_o to_o make_v strange_a discovery_n of_o the_o increase_n of_o christian_a believer_n pag._n 36._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o christ_n make_v many_o more_o disciple_n and_o believer_n than_o john_n and_o add_v daily_o to_o the_o church_n that_o be_v then_o in_o jerusalem_n such_o as_o shall_v be_v save_v here_o be_v two_o paradox_n first_o that_o christ_n make_v more_o disciple_n than_o john_n out_o of_o who_o shall_v he_o make_v they_o when_o as_o john_n have_v sweep_v all_o along_o with_o he_o as_o you_o affirm_v before_o pag._n 32._o med._n not_o take_v it_o synecdochical_o whatever_o you_o determine_v of_o it_o here_o second_o that_o christ_n shall_v add_v daily_o to_o the_o church_n that_o be_v then_o in_o jerusalem_n be_v not_o this_o a_o marvelous_a anticipation_n and_o mistake_n to_o apply_v that_o which_o be_v do_v by_o the_o disciple_n after_o christ_n ascension_n act._n 2._o last_o unto_o the_o ministry_n of_o christ_n himself_o and_o yet_o in_o the_o sequel_n you_o reckon_v this_o to_o the_o apostle_n also_o express_o pag._n 56._o judge_n if_o here_o be_v not_o false_a muster_n and_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o you_o give_v we_o occasion_n shrewd_o to_o suspect_v your_o ignorance_n to_o say_v no_o worse_o to_o talk_v of_o a_o church_n in_o jerusalem_n beside_o the_o national_a church_n of_o the_o jew_n in_o the_o life-time_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o thus_o far_o i_o have_v take_v notice_n of_o most_o of_o the_o material_a excipienda_fw-la in_o your_o book_n i_o have_v think_v to_o have_v bestow_v as_o much_o time_n on_o the_o rest_n but_o that_o other_o consideration_n forbid_v i_o therefore_o i_o shall_v only_o brief_o examine_v the_o main_a proposition_n that_o follow_v omit_v the_o amplification_n and_o collateral_a notion_n that_o fall_v in_o the_o handle_n thereof_o and_o so_o i_o shall_v leave_v this_o proposition_n without_o take_v any_o further_a exception_n to_o it_o or_o any_o more_o passage_n in_o the_o assert_n of_o it_o and_o the_o rather_o because_o there_o be_v and_o those_o so_o able_a already_o engage_v in_o the_o dispute_n thereof_o and_o come_v to_o the_o second_o proposition_n viz._n that_o all_o these_o congregation_n and_o several_a assembly_n proposition_n make_v up_o but_o one_o church_n which_o proposition_n except_o the_o former_a stand_v good_a be_v to_o little_a purpose_n as_o the_o doctor_n foresee_v be_v therefore_o very_o brief_a in_o the_o manifestation_n of_o it_o i_o shall_v not_o therefore_o be_v long_o in_o the_o examination_n of_o it_o though_o in_o that_o little_a compass_n of_o line_n he_o give_v cause_n of_o manifold_a exception_n for_o first_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o brethren_n themselves_o acknowledge_v that_o all_o the_o believer_n in_o jerusalem_n be_v all_o member_n of_o that_o church_n if_o you_o mean_v the_o church_n speak_v of_o act._n 15._o 4._o i_o deny_v and_o say_v it_o be_v a_o gross_a presumption_n and_o beg_v of_o the_o question_n to_o say_v that_o we_o acknowledge_v all_o the_o believer_n in_o jerusalem_n to_o be_v member_n of_o that_o one_o minister_a church_n especial_o if_o you_o reckon_v all_o john_n disciple_n and_o convert_v to_o these_o believer_n for_o as_o there_o be_v a_o good_a space_n of_o time_n after_o there_o be_v multitude_n of_o believer_n ere_o there_o be_v such_o a_o church_n so_o for_o any_o thing_n have_v yet_o be_v bring_v to_o the_o contrary_a it_o be_v probable_a enough_o that_o the_o true_a believer_n which_o be_v not_o so_o many_o after_o you_o have_v cut_v off_o john_n convert_v i_o mean_v those_o that_o do_v stick_v in_o john_n baptism_n which_o be_v multitude_n and_o temporary_a believer_n which_o cease_v to_o walk_v with_o christ_n which_o be_v not_o a_o few_o and_o stranger_n which_o do_v afterwards_o disperse_v themselves_o into_o several_a country_n those_o that_o do_v remain_v at_o jerusalem_n do_v gradual_o grow_v up_o unto_o church-fellowship_n and_o it_o amount_v to_o no_o less_o than_o the_o former_a beg_n and_o presumption_n that_o which_o follow_v viz._n that_o this_o proposition_n be_v manifest_a out_o of_o the_o scripture_n viz._n that_o they_o that_o be_v convent_v be_v say_v to_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n for_o what_o if_o that_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o church_n catholic_n and_o not_o a_o particular_a church_n it_o may_v not_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o word_n church_n be_v often_o so_o use_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o it_o be_v suspicious_a that_o the_o three_o thousand_o convert_v at_o once_o be_v not_o so_o soon_o instruct_v in_o church-followship_n as_o convert_v as_o for_o that_o which_o follow_v that_o they_o continue_v in_o the_o church_n communion_n and_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n the_o doctor_n have_v mould_v the_o text_n for_o his_o own_o advantage_n and_o indeed_o have_v falsify_v it_o for_o it_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n 42._o doctrine_n and_o fellowship_n not_o in_o the_o church_n fellowship_n except_o you_o be_v content_a it_o shall_v be_v understand_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a which_o be_v no_o more_o than_o in_o christian_a communion_n in_o general_a and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v that_o be_v all_o that_o be_v mean_v there_o and_o tell_v i_o any_o act_n wherein_o the_o multitude_n of_o believer_n do_v communicate_v that_o can_v bespeak_v it_o necessary_o to_o be_v any_o more_o than_o a_o christian_a communion_n in_o general_a or_o what_o christian_n may_v have_v together_o though_o not_o of_o the_o same_o church_n and_o the_o doctor_n himself_o say_v before_o the_o chief_a public_a ordinance_n they_o communicate_v in_o be_v preach_v to_o the_o three_o assertion_n or_o branch_n pag._n 82._o which_o be_v that_o the_o apostle_n and_o presbyter_n govern_v order_v and_o rule_v this_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n consist_v of_o many_o congregation_n and_o assembly_n by_o a_o common_a council_n and_o presbytery_n i_o answer_v first_o i_o be_o not_o satisfy_v by_o any_o thing_n have_v be_v allege_v that_o that_o church_n consist_v of_o many_o congregation_n and_o assembly_n and_o that_o upon_o the_o scruple_n before_o instance_v second_o in_o assert_v that_o the_o presbyter_n do_v rule_v that_o church_n and_o ordinary_o other_o church_n who_o do_v you_o hit_v sure_o not_o the_o independent_n as_o you_o call_v they_o we_o grant_v it_o be_v their_o part_n to_o rule_v but_o we_o distinguish_v between_o authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n on_o the_o one_o hand_n and_o power_n and_o interest_n on_o the_o other_o this_o latter_a belong_v to_o the_o people_n the_o other_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o officer_n which_o yet_o they_o exercise_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n so_o they_o i_o the_o officer_n ordain_v they_o excommunicate_v i_o pronounce_v excommunication_n they_o lead_v and_o direct_v in_o all_o government_n and_o dispute_n they_o have_v the_o executive_a power_n as_o you_o demand_v pag._n 93._o but_o the_o people_n have_v a_o power_n and_o interest_n too_o as_o those_o place_n allege_v by_o yourself_o show_v express_o act._n 15._o for_o though_o ver._n 2._o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v say_v to_o be_v send_v to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n only_o yet_o ver._n 4._o they_o be_v say_v to_o be_v receive_v of_o the_o church_n and_o apostle_n and_o elder_n therefore_o they_o be_v send_v to_o the_o church_n also_o and_o that_o word_n {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o with_o one_o accord_n ver._n 25._o import_v a_o multitude_n meet_v together_o and_o this_o to_o be_v the_o result_n of_o that_o multitude_n else_o it_o be_v no_o great_a commendation_n of_o the_o resolution_n that_o it_o be_v convene_v about_o and_o issue_v forth_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o and_o though_o only_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n be_v mention_v as_o come_v together_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o question_n ver._n 6._o yet_o it_o be_v say_v ver._n 22._o that_o it_o please_v not_o only_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n but_o the_o whole_a church_n also_o therefore_o the_o church_n also_o come_v together_o to_o consult_v or_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o a_o committee_n first_o prepare_v the_o dispute_n as_o not_o count_v it_o so_o safe_a perhaps_o to_o admit_v the_o weak_a to_o the_o same_o
be_v no_o wave_n of_o the_o sea_n but_o stand_v upon_o this_o bottom_n and_o foundation_n viz._n that_o no_o privilege_n be_v a_o hindrance_n in_o that_o thing_n wherein_o it_o be_v ordain_v for_o a_o privilege_n and_o so_o the_o entireness_n of_o a_o congregation_n whereby_o it_o be_v able_a to_o recollect_v itself_o as_o have_v the_o whole_a spirit_n of_o government_n in_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v make_v a_o bar_n to_o a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o shall_v find_v it_o convenient_a and_o for_o edification_n to_o join_v with_o other_o church_n where_o god_n shall_v knit_v their_o heart_n reciprocal_o in_o the_o common_a transaction_n of_o such_o affair_n as_o they_o shall_v think_v fit_a and_o consent_n unto_o but_o this_o can_v be_v prescribe_v and_o enjoin_v upon_o they_o by_o man_n but_o be_v to_o be_v do_v elective_o by_o they_o as_o flow_v indeed_o from_o a_o special_a love_n and_o pleasure_n which_o those_o church_n take_v in_o one_o another_o and_o bear_v to_o one_o another_o this_o we_o say_v in_o their_o ordinary_a affair_n they_o may_v do_v we_o speak_v not_o of_o case_n extraordinary_a for_o difficulty_n and_o moment_n wherein_o if_o their_o own_o mean_n suffice_v not_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o seek_v the_o help_n of_o other_o church_n brief_o to_o shut_v up_o all_o have_v we_o a_o collegde_v of_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n we_o shall_v make_v as_o much_o use_n of_o they_o and_o reference_n to_o they_o as_o they_o do_v and_o be_v there_o more_o church_n of_o such_o a_o temper_n and_o quality_n as_o they_o ought_v that_o may_v be_v the_o foundation_n of_o such_o a_o mutual_a dearness_n pleasure_n and_o confidence_n we_o may_v do_v more_o in_o this_o way_n of_o associate_v then_o we_o do_v but_o we_o hold_v it_o our_o right_n liberty_n and_o privilege_n to_o do_v what_o we_o do_v in_o this_o kind_n free_o and_o not_o to_o be_v compel_v thereto_o nor_o indeed_o will_v it_o be_v any_o other_o than_o a_o mere_a formal_a association_n do_v it_o arise_v otherwise_o win_v we_o therefore_o to_o a_o association_n by_o the_o beauty_n of_o your_o fellowship_n and_o you_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o compel_v we_o the_o second_o question_n which_o take_v up_o full_a one_o three_o part_n of_o his_o book_n be_v of_o the_o manner_n of_o gather_v church_n and_o of_o admit_v member_n and_o officer_n propose_v by_o he_o 1._o in_o the_o chaos_n it_o seem_v 2._o orderly_o as_o he_o suppose_v draw_v forth_o into_o six_o query_n though_o i_o dare_v not_o say_v there_o be_v not_o interfere_v tautology_n and_o great_a confusion_n the_o nature_n in_o which_o the_o thing_n be_v viz._n of_o quere_n encourage_v i_o the_o rather_o to_o do_v something_o in_o they_o for_o that_o i_o hope_v the_o doctor_n will_v not_o be_v great_a of_o his_o own_o sense_n but_o take_v a_o answer_n of_o these_o thing_n from_o those_o that_o know_v the_o way_n better_o than_o himself_o who_o it_o seem_v be_v but_o a_o caetechumenos_n therein_o i_o shall_v here_o therefore_o endeavour_v to_o instruct_v he_o in_o stead_n of_o refute_v he_o for_o as_o much_o as_o to_o i_o it_o seem_v unmeet_a that_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v polemical_o exercise_v before_o he_o be_v positive_o principled_a the_o first_o quere_n which_o must_v go_v but_o for_o one_o though_o it_o be_v legion_n i_o must_v answer_v to_o part_n by_o part_n as_o follow_v whether_o for_o the_o gather_n of_o church_n there_o be_v either_o precept_n or_o precedent_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n a._o yes_o be_v not_o the_o word_n a_o gather_a ordinance_n be_v not_o the_o people_n thereby_o invite_v yea_o compel_v to_o come_v in_o and_o call_v to_o 1._o fellowship_n with_o the_o saint_n as_o well_o as_o with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n be_v not_o man_n a_o sociable_a creature_n do_v not_o nature_n teach_v we_o for_o politic_a advantage_n to_o fall_v into_o society_n be_v there_o not_o heat_n where_o two_o lie_v together_o 11._o and_o be_v it_o not_o foreprophesy_v they_o shall_v serve_v the_o lord_n with_o one_o 18._o shoulder_n and_o last_o do_v not_o christ_n say_v where_o two_o or_o three_o be_v gather_v together_o in_o my_o name_n etc._n etc._n but_o all_o this_o hitherto_o you_o will_v be_v as_o sorry_a it_o shall_v once_o come_v into_o question_n as_o i_o for_o who_o or_o what_o shall_v be_v saddle_v for_o the_o presbytery_n but_o such_o a_o like_a thing_n as_o they_o call_v a_o church_n at_o lest_o only_o by_o this_o i_o perceive_v what_o church_n you_o will_v have_v {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o not_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o i_o all_o together_o tag_n and_o rag_n no_o selection_n this_o be_v the_o way_n indeed_o to_o embase_v the_o kind_n and_o make_v they_o carry_v gentle_a i_o demand_v therefore_o further_o ought_v not_o church-society_n to_o be_v particular_a certain_a and_o definite_a for_o as_o much_o as_o that_o which_o be_v every_o one_o work_n be_v do_v by_o nobody_o and_o to_o profess_v to_o owe_v equal_a and_o immediate_a duty_n to_o all_o be_v both_o the_o way_n to_o perform_v it_o to_o none_o and_o a_o sign_n that_o a_o man_n intend_v so_o but_o if_o that_o that_o follow_v must_v be_v take_v for_o the_o meaning_n of_o this_o quere_n viz._n whether_o preacher_n and_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n do_v ever_o leave_v their_o own_o ordinary_a charge_n to_o which_o they_o be_v call_v and_o whereto_o they_o be_v fix_v with_o a_o command_n not_o to_o leave_v they_o and_o under_o pretence_n of_o a_o new_a way_n etc._n etc._n do_v run_v about_o and_o alienate_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o people_n well-affected_a former_o to_o their_o several_a minister_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v by_o no_o mean_n be_v this_o warrantable_a but_o i_o count_v a_o vast_a difference_n between_o a_o minister_n or_o minister_n go_v abroad_o of_o their_o own_o head_n and_o mere_o under_o pretence_n in_o a_o secret_a clandestine_a way_n to_o get_v the_o heart_n of_o man_n from_o their_o sound_n and_o orthodox_a teacher_n for_o this_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o false_a *_o 17._o apostle_n and_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n a_o minister_n or_o minister_n go_v forth_o with_o the_o consent_n and_o approbation_n of_o a_o church_n or_o church_n when_o or_o where_o christ_n shall_v make_v a_o opportunity_n and_o open_v a_o door_n for_o the_o peaceable_a comely_a and_o orderly_o do_v thereof_o either_o to_o vindicate_v some_o truth_n under_o reproach_n and_o disgrace_n through_o a_o cloud_n of_o ignorance_n and_o prejudice_n hang_v over_o the_o eye_n of_o man_n or_o to_o discover_v and_o lay_v open_a certain_a error_n or_o usurpation_n wherein_o christ_n be_v injure_v and_o the_o saint_n liberty_n infringe_v and_o this_o in_o a_o free_a ingenuous_a way_n of_o preach_v and_o dispute_n offer_v and_o commend_v their_o doctrine_n and_o way_n to_o the_o impartial_a search_n and_o examination_n of_o all_o both_o pastor_n and_o people_n that_o hear_v or_o 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