that his butchery upon James pleased the people put forth his hand to take Peter also But is there nothing more in the Reason then this Truly if A. S. hides the treasure of his minde so deep another time digge for it who will for mee For this once I have taken pains to finde it and have found somewhat which I conceive is like to it if not Identically it The man I take it would be here conceived to reason after this manner If the Church of Christ ought to be ruled or governed only with one species or kinde of government then ought not they to be suffered who go about to pluralize this government or to set up a kind of government in the Church specifically differing from the government more generally practised and established Sed verum prius Ergo posterius and consequently the Apologists being men that would do such a thing as this are not to be tolerated If this be the argument this is the Answer First the consequence is lame and halts right down because though the Church of Christ ought to be governed with one and the same kinde of government throughout the world yet it no wayes follows from hence that therefore that government which is more generally established and practised in the world should be that specificall government whereby it ought to be governed If this consequence were good it would highly befriend the government Pontifician but dissolve and destroy the government Presbyterian because the Pontifician government is or at least not long since was far more oecumenicall and comprehensive then the Presbyterian either is or is like to be Therefore in framing this consequence the man hath given sentence against himself and his own beloved opinion touching Church-Discipline and hath put a sword into the Popes hand to smite as well the Consistorian as the Congregationall Government And Secondly suppose the government more generally practised in the world be that very kinde of government whereby the Churches of Christ ought to be governed yet except this government both as touching the lawfulness and necessity of it be sufficiently cleered to the judgement and consciences of those from whom submission to it is required an honour whereunto A. S. his government hath not yet been preferred by all his great friends they ought not to be scourged with â—is Scorpions if they demurre a while about their submission thereunto and in the mean season desire to live under such a government wherein they have double and treble satisfaction both in point of lawfulness and necessity above the other Thirdly and lastly though unity and uniformity in government be very fitting and necessary throughout the Churches of Christ yet that the servants of Christ should fall foul one upon another and the greater eat up the less for this uniformity sake is no wayes necessary especially considering that God as hath been formerly shewed hath provided other means far more gracious honourable and proper for the bringing of the blessedness of this uniformity upon his Churches in due time So that if there be any thing in this Reason it is altogether with and not at all against the Apologists To your fifteenth His 15. Reason answered wee answer first be it supposed which yet wee shall presently oppose that neither Christ nor his Apostles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church yet did he or they ever grant a power to a major part of Professours in a Kingdom or Nation to grind the faces of their Brethren partakers of like precious faith and holiness with them either because they could not in all points jump with them in their judgements or because they endeavoured to keep a good conscience toward God for following the ducture and guidance of their present light If you will take without asking that which neither Christ nor his Apostles ever granted you you may very well bear it at the hands of your Brethren if they humbly sue and intreat for what they never granted especially considering that that which you take is imperious and high tending to the annoyance and trouble of many whereas that which they sue for is moderate and low only a peaceable standing amongst you that they may be able to do good unto many Secondly if neither Christ nor his Apostles as you say ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in his Church how come you and your Government to be tolerated your Government being specifically diversified from that of the Papacy as if before observed which is more generall and extensive then yours If you have not a toleration for your government either from Christ or his Apostles we are doubtfull from whom or whence you have it Thirdly doe you not by this reason build up the walls of Babylon and strengthen the Papists in their bloody errour against the reformed Churches upon which they looke as schismaticall from their Mother and in that respect think them no wayes fit to be tolerated but to be suppressed both in their doctrine and government yea and in case they will not be reduced to the principles of Rome to be wholly extirpated and rooted out of the world What can be spoken more to the heart of such apprehensions and counsels and resolutions as these then that neither Christ nor his Apostles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church Fourthly whereas you say that they granted no toleration to divers Sects do you not imply that they did grant a toleration to some one Sect at least if not to more And how know you whether the Sect of Apologisme in your improperating stile be not that Sect or one of those Sects to which Christ and his Apostles it seems granted a toleration Is it not I appeale to your judgement and conscience as like to be this as any other Fifthly we willingly grant your conclusion in this Reason sensusano that there is no reason why the Apologists should sue for a toleration no nor yet properly why they should be tolerated toleration in propriety of signification as was formerly noted being rei malae appliable onely to that which iâ— evill but rather why they should be countenanced and encouraged Therefore if you think that they shall sin in suing for a toleration you shall doe well to prevent that sin in them and perhaps shall withall prevent a greater of your owne by declaring them persons worthy not of a toleration but of encouragement or at least by procuring them a toleration that they may not be put upon the tentation of suing for it But sixthly and lastly to the main frame of your Reason what doe you think of Sinite utrunque crescere Let both grow together untill the Harvest Matth. 13.30 Is not here the toleration granted which you deny to be granted Non lac lacti nec ovum ovo similius If it bee not this toleration certainly it is somewhat as like to it as like may be
but condemn them He that intends to make hoops of a clean streight-bodied tree must in the working of it alter the comely shape and streightnesse of it wherein it grew and bend and crook and bow quite round all that he imployeth of it to such a purpose whereas he whose Art and intent is to make Javelins Lances Pikes or the like of such a tree hath no occasion to alter the native shape or figure of it in point of streightnesse because Nature it self had fitted it to his hand in this respect for such uses and purposes as these nay this man should do against himselfe if he should alter them In like manner they who seeke themselves in wayes and ends which contradict the lawfull peace and comforts of other men if withall they desire to have their proceedings countenanced and attested by the Scripture for just and good they must of necessity suborn them and make them speak what the holy Ghost never meant they should speak whereas those men who value not regard not themselves but in their order and due subordination and are willing to gird themselves and serve til God and men have first eaten and can be content with the reversions and broken meat of their table be they never so mean these men I say need not solicit or importune the Scriptures for their testimony or compliance with them in their way because their native inspiration from God leads them willingly yea rejoycingly yea triumphantly hereunto Such men should but prevaricate with themselves and their own ends if they should go about to make one haire of the head of the Scripture either black or white which the holy Ghost hath not made such to their hand Therefore whiles some men shall seeke to adorn their own names and reputations with the plunder and spoyls of other mens and lay the foundations of their owne greatnesse in the ruines of the lawfull comforts and peace of others there is no hope of a generall or through accommodation in matters of religion It is impossible that such men should comport with the truth in their way and consequently with those who embrace the truth Nor will any method of violence as either imprisoning fining crushing suppressing banishing cutting off by death or the like be able to advance that unity and accord which we al lust after though some in Gods way others in their own the very ghosts and shadows and memories of those that shal suffer in any of these kinds for conscience towards God will be as so many spirits of divisions dissentions and distractions amongst those that will chuse no other Arbitrators to comprimize their differences but the Sword and Blood Another signe of those Halcyon days approaching so much desired by us all wherin all gusts and winds storms of contrary doctrines opinions and Sects in religion shal be turned into a sweet calm of an universal unity and accord is this when Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers shall be no more turned into Councels Synods and secular Armes I mean when men shall be freely permitted without feare or danger of molestation to consult with the Apostles Prophets c. of what religion it were best for them to be without having their judgements emancipated forestalled and over-awed by the definitive and compulsory determinations and allowances of other men The reason hereof is because the writings of the Apostles Prophets Evangelists with the Ministery of faithfull Pastors and Teachers are sanctified and set apart by God for this very end and purpose namely the perfecting the Saints Ephes 4 13. c. till they all come into the unity of the Faith c. Therefore whilst Councels Synods c. shall intrude or step in as new Apostles Prophets and Evangelists of another order between those Apostles Prophets and Evangelists and those Pastors and Teachers which Christ hath given for the setling of an universall peace and unity throughout all the Churches of his Saints in due time to interrupt intercept them in their work and way so that they can never have the judgments consciences of men in their native ingenuity and freedome to work upon but still upon the disadvantage of Synodical impressions and forestallments partly with fear partly with favour partly with hope and conceit of the truth there is little hope of seeing the vision of joy and glory in the world I mean the Saints and Servants of Jesus Christ universally kissing and embracing one another in the armes of unity truth and peace It is in vain to wash in Abanah or Pharphar when onely the waters of Jordan are sanctified for the cure To commit adultery is not the way to increase though flesh and blood should determine for it They shall eate saith God and not have enough they shall commit adultery and not increase because they have left off to take heed unto the Lord that is because they had substituted their own wisdome and inventions in stead of his for bringing their desires and ends to passe Hos 4.10 Thirdly and lastly when the generality of men professing godliness and religion shall be content to furnish themselves with religion I mean with knowledge in religion by smaller parcels as the stock of their own judgements and understanding shall be able from time to time to accommodate thâ—m and shall make scruple of taking it up by whole sale from Synods Councels and Books only for ease and cheapness sake this also is as the putting forth of the Fig-tree which shewes the Summer of an universall accord amongst the Saints to be at hand The reason is because God hath promised and will perform accordingly that if men shall apply their heart to understanding and shall cry after knowledge and seek her as silver and search for her as for hid treasure they shall thâ—n understand the feare of the Lord and find the knowledge of God Prov. 2.2 3 4. But there is no promise made that they who to favour themselves and to gratifie the flesh and to save the labour of seeking and searching after knowledge shall take in the dictates and resolutions of men and call them knowledge and understanding without any more adoe shall either find the fear of the Lord or true knowledge of God Now till men shall generally find the fear of the Lord and the true knowledge of God which is not like to be out of that way which the promise of God mentioned hath sanctified thereunto there will be little hope of the generall meeting of men in the bond of peace as was formerly argued in another of these signes Fourthly and lastly when Christian States and men of soundest judgment greatest learning parts and abilities therein shal give free liberty to men look'd upon as opposite in judgment to the truth to publish and openly declare the grounds reasons of their judgments in each particular and not compell them either to keep them burning or glowing in their own breasts or else to propagate
be lawfull to cut A. S. a syllable shorter power is which the man with both hands and an importune bounty will needs bestow upon the Civill Magistrate 2 By what authority and upon what grounds he doth it For the first hee describes and states this power after this manner pag. 6. The Parliament pretends no Directive power in matters of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall to the Church but only an executive coercitive and externall power which is not in but about the Church and for the Church whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church And this authority belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito as they say to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actufignato and jure in rem only till they become true Christians c. In this description the man is to me a Barbarian his own phrase to the Apologists in the word Church Sect. 3. I have bestowed thoughts more then a few to be partners with him in his notion of the word but quanto plus cogito co minus capio For shame A. S. out with the beam of obscurity from your own eye before you tiffle again to pull the moat of obscurity out of your brothers eye A man in reason would think that the same word being used four or five times and that without the least intimation of any variety or difference of signification almost within the compasse of so many lines were still meant and to be taken in one and the same sense If so then ha with you The Parliament by that coercitive power which you are pleased here to bestow upon it by way of compensation for that directive power which you take from it compelleth say you refractory men to obey the Church I presume that by the Church here you do not mean all the particular Churches and Congregations in the kingdome in the folio of their respective members but in the deoimo sexto of their Synod representative Assembly If you take the word in the former sense you only say that the Parliament hath power to compell the refractory to obey all the particular Churches with their severall members in the Kingdome which is a sense I conceive at as much defiance with your ends as with your and our understandings If you take it in the latter which I doubt not but is your beloved sense then your meaning is that the use and intent of that executive coercive power in matters of Religion which you put into the Parliaments hands is to compell the kingdome in case it be refractory or tot quot to obey the Presbyterie and Presbyteriall assemblies in all their Canons Determinations and Decrees whatsoever without bail or mainprise without mercy or compassion whether a man findes sap sense savour reason or Religion in them or no. But yet secondly Sect. 4. I know not well how you should mean the Church contracted in her Grand Presbyterie or Generall Assembly neither first because you affirm in this coercive power in the Parliament to be not in but about the Church and for the Church And I doubt your meaning is not that the Parliament should either only or chiefly work or act with this their coercive power upon your Ecclesiastique Assemblies to restrain and keep them within compass though I confess if it should move only or chiefly in this sphere it would be more for the Church i. for the good and benefit of the Church in generall then to suffer such assemblies to fit and impose oaths upon men to obey their acts orders and decrees which you tell us glorying in your shame pag. 42. is done in your Presbyteriall Government and to punish or crush those that shall have more conscience then to inslave themselves unto them in such a way And 2. if by Church you should here mean the Church representative as it is more commonly then properly called in her generall Assembly you would be a little more open then I conceive will well stand with your principles in such cases For then your meaning is plainly this That the Parliament hath that executive coercive power which you ascribe to it not for the Church i. the benefit of the Saints and servants of God throughout the kingdome but for the benefit and behoof of the Ecclefiastique Presbyteries and Assemblies only Now however I can easily believe that thus you would have it yet I conceive it somewhat eccentricall to your other motions to profess it And yet 3. when you immediately adde that in vertue of this authority when parties pretend to be effended by the Church or if the Church judge any thing amiss hee the civill Magistrate may command the Church to revise and examine its judgement c. You must needs mean your transcendent Church of Presbyters otherwise you should prevaricate and grant a judiciary power to particular Congregations 4. And lastly in the very next page pag. 7. Sect. 5. to represent the voluntary exile of the Apologists with as hard-favour'd an aspect in the eyes of men as he could his indignation against it utters it self in this Patheticall strain over the poor Church of God in this Kingdome And if they all had fled away what might have become of the poor Church of God in this Kingdome c. Here by the Church of God in this Kingdome he cannot mean the Ecclesiastique Church of representing Presbyters because if these had all fled away there had been no Church of God in such a sense in this Kingdome By the Church of God in this place if he means any thing like a man hee must needs mean the godly part in the Kingdom and that considered without their Presbyters or Pastours And oh that hee and his coopinatory party would but grant that that executive coercive power which is in the civil Magistrate is for this Church I mean for the benefit and peace of this Church of God But in the mean time you see that his Trumpet in the Description he gives of his executive coercive externall power in the Magistrate gives no distinct sound perhaps he blew wild on purpose lest an enemy should know how to prepare to battaile against him But is there never a blessing of reason or truth in all this cluster Come and see In vertue of this authoritie saith he when parties pretend to be offended with the Church or the Church judge any thing amisse Sect. 6. he the Civill Magistrate may command the Church to examine its judgement c. In these few words he hath plainly plundred and undone a very confiderable partie of his owne beloved notions elsewhere For 1. What reason hath he to be so invective against the Apologists as he is pag. 49. and 50. for holding that Kings or civill Magistrates are above the Church when as himselfe here professeth that they may command the Church especially his own Maxime elsewhere being this that Par in parem non habet imperium and that
from the Old or New Testament but he should have done more ingenuously to have added no nor yet any materiall or implicit patterne neither For if he hath any materiall patterne it is so purely materiall that it may contend with materia prima it selfe for the prize of Invisibilitie If he hath any implicit it is wrapt up under so many folds and pleights of obscurity that no seeing eye is able to pierce through to it But doe we not give sentence too soon It may be his pattern from the New Testament will carry it though that from the Old refus'd to meddle with it But where shall we seek this He tells us pag. 41. That we may see it in the History of the New Testament in the judgement given out at the Synod either truly or untruly so called of Hierusalem concerning the businesse of Antiochia What possibly we may see in length and time is not easie to determine for the present but I have both more hope and feare of seeing a thousand other things which yet I cannot certainly say that I shall see then I have of either ever to see Classicall proceedings demonstrated out of that passage of Scripture Nor doth A. S. so much as put forth his little finger towards such a Demonstration but contents himselfe for the present to threaten us with his own hope of seeing the busines clearly demonstrated to us by a better â—and ere long Clear demonstrations of any thing from the Scriptures shall be very welcome to us at any time but me thinks I see such insuperable difficulties in the way that I feare that Demonstration will never come out cleare Yet because I would help forward the clearnes of it what I can I shal make bold to propound unto him that either is or shall be the undertaker thereof a few particulars which I humbly conceive must be substantially prov'd to make the Demonstration clear at least to me and many others 1. It must be prov'd that the Apostles in that meeting at Jerusalem Acts 15.6 sate there onely in the capacitie of ordinary Elders or Presbyters and not as Apostles i. that they wav'd or silenc'd the spirit of infallibilitie which was given them and fell to worke with the weak and fallible spirits of other men which is as if a man should pull out his eyes to see with the holes 2. It must further be prov'd that this Councell at Ierusalem had their state and set times of meeting as weekly monthly yearly or the like and that they did not assemble occasionally onely For this is one of the high characters of Presbytery by A. S. his owne calculation pag. 39. 3. It must yet be prov'd that they had Authoritatem citationis an authoritative power to cite and call before them whom they pleased with in the pale of Apostolicall jurisdiction that is within the compasse of the whole world 4. It must also be made cleere that the Apostles and Elders that were members of this Synod were sent hereunto by those particular Churches over whom they had right to claime Jurisdiction or intended to include in their determinations 5. The Demonstration will never bee cleare till it be substantially prov'd that there was none authorized to sit in that Councell but onely Church-Officers and Ecclesiasticall men the contrary hereof seeming at least very apparent from ver 22. 23. 6. That likewise must not be left unprov'd that this Councell had power as well to make new Laws of indifferent things as to impose things necessary upon the Churches ver 28. 7. The Demonstrator to make his worke cleere and clever must prove that the Churches of Syria and Cilicia had their Commissioners or Delegates sitting authoritatively in this Synod because they are included in the Determination ver 23. 8. It must be prov'd likewise that Paul and Barnabas sate as Commissioners upon the same terms for the Church of Antioch in this Synod 9. It must be made to appeare either that this Synod or Councell would have proceeded as now they did whether they could have said It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us or no or that ordinary Synods or Assemblies may lawfully proceed as they did though they have no such assurance of a concurrence of the Holy Ghost with them as they had 10. And lastly Proofe must be made that those words in the close of the Epistle sent from this Councell to the respective Churches yee shall do well ver 29. are fulminative import some such threatning or intimation as this that if they did not submit some further course must be taken with them If all these particulars shall be substantially cleered and proved I shall freely acknowledge that there is a plausible patterne for A.S. his Government in the new Testament but Hic labor hoc opus est I shall not pre-judge any mans abilities but for the present I doe as much expect the fulfilling of that Poeticall Prophecie Vnda dabit flammas dabit ignis aquas as I doe ever to see that fifteenth of the Acts safely deliver'd of the man-child cal'd Presbyterie Therefore A. S. must pardon us if as yet wee be not able to see any patterne at all of his Government neither formall nor materiall neither explicit nor implicit either in the old or new Testament Well but yet the man hath one string to his bowe more though Grace wil not relieve him it may be nature will He hath as hee saith a patterne in the Law of Nature which will suffice They must I beleeve have verie good appetites to Presbyterie that will bee suffic'd with this pattern The Law of nature is a very vast volume and A. S. hath not quoted either page leaf or section of the book so that I know not whither to turne or where to look for his patterne But me thinks the man himselfe hath given ample testimonie to the Law of Nature that it is no ways guiltie of or accessarie to his Presbyterian Government For that which cannot be made out to the judgements and consciences of men without the helpe of such an host of scholastique intricate if not inexplicable distinctions as A. S. is fain to leavie and muster together p. 29. 30. 31. 32. c. before he can make either hâ—ad or foot of his businesse what other originall or descent soever it may claim I know not but questionlesse the Law of Nature will not owne The Law of nature saith with one of natures sons Odi difficiles nugas she meddles not with subtilties niceties or curiosities of distinctions A man that is unlearned and but of ordinarie capacitie that shall read the pages last quoted may very possibly take his odde and uncouth distinctions for names of unclean spirits and thinke that the man conjur's for his Government But will you please to heare the names of his beagles with which he follows his game and hunts classique Law out of those deep and dark caverns tullians of the earth where
you Brethren in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ that yee withdraw your selves from every brother that walketh inordinately c. and vers 14. If any man obey not this our saying in this letter note him and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Clearly implying that to with-draw communion and to deny Christian fellowship unto Christians walking inordinately is both a means of Divine institution and otherwise proper and commodious in it self to reclaim and bring them to Repentance There is the same reason of Churches in this behalf which there is of persons Churches being nothing else but persons embodied Secondly suppose there were no such sufficient or satisfactory remedy for the inconvenience mentioned in the way of the Apologists as A.S. conceives to be in his which yet there is as hath in part already and will afterwards further appear yet Lawyers have a saying that a mischief is better then an inconvenience A man had better run the hazard of a greater loss then expose himself to a daily wasting and consuming of his estate A man had better be wet through and through with a soaking showre once a yeer then be exposed in his house to continuall droppings all the yeer long The Delinquencie of whole Churches such I mean as is matter of publique scandall or offence to their neighbour Churches is not an every dayes case no more in the way of Congregationall men of Presbyteriall Government you acknowledge the rarity of it in your Government and we affirm it in ours Now then much better it is to want a remedy against such an evill which possibly may not fall out within an age though it be greater when it doth fall then it is to expose our selves to continuall droppings I mean to those daily inconveniences which wee lately shewed to be Incident to the Classique Government Thirdly they that implead the Congregationall way for being defective as touching the matter in hand seem to suppose that God hath â—ut a sufficiency of power inâ—o the hands of men to remedy all defects errours and miscarriagâ—s of men whatsoever Elâ—â— why should it be made matter of so deep a charge and challenge against the way of tâ—e Apologistâ— that it affords not a sufficient and satisfactory remedy either to prevent or heal all possible miscarriages in all churches I would willingly know in case your Church transcendent your supreme Session of Presbyters should miscarry and in your Doctrinall determinations give us bay stubble and wood in stead of silver gold and precious stones a misprision you know wel-neer as incident to such Assemblies yea and to those that are more generall and oecumeniall then so as obstinacy in errour is to particular Congregations what remedy the poor Saints and Churches of God under you have or can expect against such a mischiefe or what remedy you now have in the way of your government for the recovering of your selves out of such a snare more then what the Congregationall way affordeth for the reclaiming of particular Churches Nay the truth is your Government in such a case is at a greater loss in respect of any probable or hopefull remedy against such an evill which yet is an evill of a most dangerous consequence then the other way of Government is for the reduction of particular Churches That hath the remedy of God as hath been shewed though not the remedy of men and yet that remedy of God which it hath in appliable by men and those known who they are viz. the Churches of Christ neer adjoyning but if your great Ecclesiastique body be tainted or infected though never so dangerously Corpora morbis majora patent Sen. God must have mercy on you and that in a way somewhat at least more then ordinary if ever you be healed For that Directive power in matters of Religion which had you left it in other mens hands might in this case through the blessing of God have healed you being now only in your own hath not only occasioned that evill disease that is upon you but also leaves you helpless and cureless by other men A. S. makes the greatest part of his arguments against that way of Government which hee opposeth of what iffs I mean of loose and impertinent suppositions and cases that are not like to fall out till ursa major and ursa minor meet unto which kind of arguments every whit as much as enough hath been answered already but he shall shew himself a soveraign Benefactour indeed to the Presbyterian cause if he can find out a remedy satisfactory and sufficient against that sore evill we speak of incident to his Government in the case mentioned which is a case both of a far worse consequence then the obstinacy of a particular Church in some error and I fear of a far more frequent occurrence then the world is willing to take notice of Fourthly let us ponder a little how sufficient and satisfactorie that remedie against the evill now in consideration is which the Classique politie under the protection of A. S. his pen so much glorieth in let us compare the two remedies of the two corriving polities together as A. S. hath done after this manner But the Presbyteriall Government saith he p. 39. is subject to none of these inconveniences For the collective or combined eldership having an Authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto Every man knoweth their set times of meeting wherein sundrie matters are dispatched and all things carried by pluralitie of voyces without any schisme or separation Not to be troublesome to the man about his Grammaticals wherein hi pen slips oftner then Priscian will tolerate in such a piece because in these he opposeth nothing but a mans conceit either of overmuch scholarship or overmuch care in him Here is a remedie indeed against some inconveniences but whether the inconveniences be not much better then the remedie adhuc sub Judice lis est But what are the inconveniences The first is that Churches being equall in authoritie one cannot binde another to give any account in case of offence given Well what is the remedie for this in Classique constitution The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves c. What is another inconvenience In case other churches were offended in the proceedings of a particular church they could not judge in it for then they should be both judge and partie in one cause c. Well what is the remedie in Presbyterian politie The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churchches c. What is a third inconvenience That Congregationall Government giveth no more power or authoritie to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker yea to the Hangman over a thousand c. What is the Presbyterian remedie for this The combined Eldership having an Authoritative power c.
eating and drinking are not to be tolerated Apagecruentas nugas Whereas you adde that a Toleration of Sects cannot but daily beget new Schismes and divisions We answer first that this allegation we have answered already once and againe yet secondly we adde that many inconveniences sicknesses diseases come by eating and drinking yet are these to be tolerated in the world Thirdly we plead for no toleration of any Sect nor of any thing so called but which may stand with the utmost that either A. S. with his pen or his whole partie with theirs can doe against them to suppresse them Fourthly we havâ—â—â—â—â—erly prov'd that Apologisme is neither Sect nor Schisme no more then A. Ssisme is Fifthly and lastly whereas you say That a Toleration of Sects cannot but daily beget new Schismes c. We answer first that Gods toleration or long-suffering towards sinners doth not onely lead all sinners to repentance but also bring many thereunto And why should not mans toleration expect an effect answerable hereunto Secondly the disciples in the ship were as much afraid that their dear Lord nd Master had been a foule spirit and would have sunk them in the Sea as A. S. is afraid of a Toleration that it must needs beget new Schismes and divisions daily But as the feared Destroyer proved the experienced preserver of that ship and men so may A. S. his feared propagator of Schismes and Divisions bee found an experienced destroyer and dissolver of them That means of all other which hath God in it is likest to doe the deed And God we know was neither in the tempest nor in the earthquake nor in the fire but in the still voice His to Reason answered His tenth reason being help'd riseth up in this forme If there was a greater difference amongst the members of the Church of Corinth in the time of S. Paul and yet they communicated together and that by the Apostles exhortation then ought not the Apologists to be tolerated But true is the former therefore the latter also We answer first that the fabrick of your Argument is built upon a false foundation or supposition viz. that the reason why the Apologists refuse communion with you you mean I suppose in your sacramentall actions is because of the latitude weight or degree of the differences in iudgment between you and them whereas the reason of their refusall in this kinde is the nature or particularity of the difference together with your practice depending upon your opinion in opposition unto theirs not the height weight or importance of either A difference in judgement about the lawfulness of stinted forms of prayer is nothing so materiall or weighty as a difference about the nature of Faith Justification c. yet the lighter difference in this case makes persons so differing uncapable of joyning together in Communion in the use of such prayers whereas the greater difference would not Secondly if there were so many and great differences amongst the members of the Church of Corinth as you speak of and yet Paul no wayes perswaded or incouraged the predominant or major party amongst them either to cast out cut off or suppress the underling parties but exhorted them unto mutuall communion c. Why do not you content your self with the line of the same process and in stead of disgracing quashing crushing trampling on only exhort the Sects and Schismes amongst you unto mutuall communion and to the forbearance of Sects and Divisions a practice which you do well to take notice of in the Apostle but do ill to think that your own of club-law is better Thirdly and lastly nor do wee know any ground or good bottome you have for your assumption wherein you affirm that there was greater difference amongst the members of the Church of Corinth then is between the Apologists and you Old Ipse dixit is made to carry this burthen alone Your eleventh Reason is very corpulent but less active His 11. Reason answered the chief ingredients of it being Abbots and Priors Convents and Monasteries amongst the Papists St Francis St Dominick and the Donatists with whose opinion and practice you say the opinion of your Brethren too much symbolizeth We answer first that Theologia symbolica non est argumeâ—tativa Angels and Devils agree in something yet this agreement is not impeachment Qui ut uni haresi suae adâ—tum atâ—faceret cunctarum haeres 〈◊〉 sphâ—mias â—â—â—ctabotur Vincent Lyr. cap. 16. either to the holiness or happiness of the Angels A. S. himself symbolizeth with Nestorius the Heretique in one property of whom Vincentius Lyrinensis reporteth that to make way for his own heresie or opinion hee fell heavie upon all heresies beside Secondly whereas he affirmeth that the opinion of his Brethren is not unlike to the Convents and Monasteries amongst the Papists certainly the unlikeness between them is for greater then that between an Apple and an Oister We cannot but wonder how or in what respect the man should conceive that an inward spirituall and notionall thing as an opinion is should be like a great building made of lime and stone or a pack of die fellows in a fat Fraternity Thirdly whereas hee insinuates a hatefull similitude between his Brethren and the Donatists who hee tels us separated themselves from other Churches under pretext that they were not so holy as their own We answer first that this insinuation will not so much as in shew touch all the Apologists however because some of them we believe have no Churches of their own and therefore they cannot pretend more holiness in them then in others Secondly that neither in substance or truth doth it touch any of them or their opinion For first they do not separate from other Churches but only in such opinions and practices wherein they cannot get leave of their consciences to joyn with amongst their Churches themselves one from another one dissenting from another not only in many opinions but in some materiall practices as before was touch'd and that from A. S. his own pen no wayes partiall you may think in such a case Secondly we would know whether A. S. himself and his party doth not as much symbolize with the Donatists in that criticall property or practice we speak of as the Apologists For under what pretext do they separate from the Church of Rome and from Episcopall Churches but only this that they think not their Churches to be as holy as their own If they separate from them upon any other grounds it were not much materiall though they held communion with them still Yea thirdly if they do not think their Presbyteriall Churches more holy then the Congregationall they are far more guilty of Schisme and Separation then their Brethren here spoken of For then they are at liberty in point of conscience to come over and joyn with them when as the other are in bands and fetters of conscience and cannot pass unto them Their Brethren would
that some of his brethren hold that all Sects and opinions are to be tolerated p. 6. So that in case these men should have the upper hand he is assured of a partie at least among them to secure him and his in that kind Secondly he confesseth again and again that his brethren are very pious and holy men and therefore certainly will not be so dogged as to send him and his into any Isle of Dogs Thirdly a poore toleration is as far from a superioritie of power as rags are from the robe or the dunghill from the throne Fourthly I doe not think that he knowes any such Isle as he speaks of whereinto he fears to be sent by the men of his indignation Fifthly and lastly if he should be sent into some Isle of Dogs the soyle and climate might probably agree well with him he hath learned it seems to bark and bite too against his sending thither To conclude for this Reason Whereas feare indeed ordinarily makes men cruell it is much to be feared A. S. onely pretends feare that so he may have a colour to be cruell His 17. Reason answered To his seventeenth Reason we answer First that the Scripture doth not forbid all nor any such Toleration as the Apologists desire This was sufficiently shewed before in our answer to the fifteenth Reason His proofe from Revel 2.20 holds no intelligence at all with his purpose yea it makes sore against himselfe and his Synedrion For first by the toleration or suffering of Jezabel which is there charged as a sinfull neglect upon the Church of Thyatira is not meant a Civill or State-toleration but an Ecclesiastick or Church-toleration This Church suffered false Doctrines to be taught in her very bosome and her members to bee corrupted and endangered thereby from day to day without laying it to heart being a matter of that sad consequence and without calling those to an account that were the sowers of such tares broachers spreaders of such opinions yea without using any means to have the truth soundly taught in opposition to such Doctrines Both Pastour and people it seems slept together whilst the envious man by his Agent and Factress Jezabel sowed these tares in their field Such a toleration as this wee formerly shewed to be sinfull and the Apologists are as much against it as you so far are they from desiring it or suing for it They desire a Toleration for themselves and their Churches in the Civill state not that the errours which spring up in their Churches should be suffered to fret like gangrens without being opposed by them or be protected by the State Secondly whereas that particular Church alone is charged by Christ with this toleration or sufferance of Jezabel and not any more Churches whether neighbours or not neighbours to her nor any combined Eldership or state Ecclesiasticall made of the consociation of the seven Churches much less any state civill evident it is that the care and power of redressing emerging enormities or evils in a Church in every kinde is committed by Christ to every particular Church respectively within it self And so they that trouble the Church must as you say be cut off But by whom not by the civill Magistrate if the trouble be spirituall nor by the combined Eldership but by the particular Church it self which is troubled by them in case there be no remedy otherwise Secondly when you say that there must be no such speeches among us as I am of Paul I am of Apollos c. nor that some are Calvinians some Independenters some Brownists c. And again that we must all be Christs wee must all think and speak the same thing otherwise men are carnall c. with some other good words to like purpose we joyn heart and hand with you in all these things and are ready to contribute the best of our endeavours unto yours if yee will suffer us to make the Tabernacle of God amongst us according to this pattern which you shew unto us Such expressions I am of Paul I of Apollos c. together with the names of Calvinians Independents Brownists c. are as untuncable in our eares as in yours c. But First every man that saith I am of Paul or I am of Apollos is not to be taught by Thorns and Briars as Gedeon taught the men of Succoth to speak better by fining imprisoning unchurching or the like but by soundness of conviction and wholesomness of instruction from the Word of God The Germanâ— have a saying That etiam in lâ—trone puniendo potest peccari A man may sin in punishing him that most of all deserves it It is not enough for us to correspond with God in his ends but we must keep as close to him in his meanes also Secondly whereas you say we must all be Christs surely there is none of those Sects you speak of but are willing to joyn with you in being his and in being called by his Name rather then by any other We fear these unhappie sounds of Independents Brownists Anabaptists c. are more frequently made of your breath then of the breath of any other sort or sect of men amongst us Thirdly whereas you adde Neither hath the Church of God a custome to be contentious the Apostle indeed saith 1 Cor. 11.16 that the Churches of God have no such custome but he doth not say that these Churches of God had any custome to erect a Presbyterian throne or a combined eldership amongst them to keep them from contentions Fourthly whereas you tell us that neither permitteth the Apostle Schismes we tell you that we have already told you and that once and again both in what sense he permitteth them and in what not and have shewed you our concurrence with him in both Fifthly and lastly in that you tell us that we must not quit our mutuall meetings as others do and as must you say be done in a publique Toleration we neither well understand the sense of your words much less any purport in them to your pupose We do not know what quitting of meetings there is like to be more under a publique toleration then is for the present His 18. Reason Answered Your eighteenth Reason is so Atheologicall and unworthy your cause that the very naming of it might be Answer sufficient A toleration say you cannot but expose your Churches unto the calumnies of Papists who evermore object unto Protestants the innumerable number of these Sects whereas they pretend to be nothing but one Church Will you redeem your selfe out of the hand of Popish calumnies by symbolizing with them will you turne Turk that you may not suffer Turkish insolencies and thraldome Surely you forget your argument insisted upon in your eleventh Reason There you make symbolizing with Papists a reason against your Brethren and their Opinions why they should not be tolerated and here you make a defect or want in them of symbolizing with them a reason