of the Church at the Lords Table Mr. Cotton of infant baptism pag. 134. line 12. And this he speaks of as the perfection of the New Hierusalem Hitherto of Church-state now to draw some brief positions and inferences from these particulars 1. The faithful Congregations of England are true Churches of Christ See chap. 3. answer to the first question Therefore not to be departed from nor their communion to be desipised 2. Where Word and Sacraments are duly administred there is a faithful Congregation a true Church See Chap. 3. quest 2. answer the first Therefore such a Congregation may challenge from every member of it what ever duty is owing to any Church of Christ 3. The essence of a true Church is preserved though there be found in it some hypocries and some notoriously scandalous both in judgement and practice See chapter 3. quest 2. answ 4. 4. Though all the members of a particular Church should make but an ignorant hypocritical verbal profession of Christ and faith in him yet there remains not onely the name but the nature of a Church so far that the actions thereof are not null See chap. 3. quest 2. answ 5. Therefore quere whether there be any Congregation in England so ignorant or scandalous as not to be capable of the name and nature of a Church according to this position 5. Promises made to the visible Church are made to it for the sake of the elect that are therein See chap. 3. answ 11. quest 3. 6. God allows none tote cast out of his Church but for obstinacy and heinous crimes against the light of nature See chap. 3. answer to question 4. 7. Such as were baptized in their infancy as they are not to be received to full communion till they make profession of faith and repentance so neither are they to be rejected but suffered to enjoy many priviledges in the Church as Church-watch c. for their healing and amendment chap. 3. quest 5. Therefore the more injurious they who cast off some hundreds of baptized ones in their congregtions and surfer neither them nor their children to enjoy any more Church-privileges than meer Turkes or Heathens CHAP. IV. Of Church-officers and their Ordination Question 1. WHat need is there of Officers in the Church of Christ Answ Though Officers be not necessary to the simple being of Churches when they be called Platforme of Discipline from N. E. yet ordinarily to their calling they are and to their well-being and therefore the Lord Jesus out of his tender compassion hath appointed and ordained officers which he would not have done if they had not been useful and needful for the Church Platform of discipline from New England chap. 6. sect 2. Quest 2. What officers then hath Christ appointed and ordained in the Church Answ These officers were either extraordinary or ordinary extraordinary as Apostles Prophets and Evangelists or ordinary as Elders and Deacons Platform of discipline chap. 6. sect 3. Quest 3. How many sorts of Elders hath Christ appointed in his Church Answ Of Elders who are also in Scripture called Bishops there are two sorts Platforme of Discipline from N. E. some attend chiefly to the Ministry of the Word as the Pastors and Teachers others attend especially unto rule who are therefore called ruling-Elders Platform of discipline Chap. 6. sect 4. Quest 4. Have the Pastor and Teacher a like power in the Ministry of the Word Answ They are alike charged with the preaching of the Word Platforme of Discipline from N. E. and the application thereof and either of them to administer the seals of the covenant unto the dispensation whereof they are alike called as also to execute the censures being a kind of application of the Word Platform of discipline chap. 6. sect 5. Quest 5. Is there any such thing as an outward call necessary to the constituting of a Pastor or Teacher Mr. Hooker Answ 1. It is a standing and a staple rule No man taketh this honour to himself Mr. Hooker but he that is called is Aaron Heb. 5.9 Mr. Hookers Surney of discipline part 2. pag. 42. line 33. 2. Without this call none can warrantably do any act that belongs to any officer Ibid. pag. 45. line 28. 3. Without this whatever is done in that behalf is void and of none effect Ibid. line 30. Quest 6. May none then preach the Word and administer the Sacraments in the Church but the Pastor or Teachers Mr. Cotton Answ We are far from allowing that sacrilegious usurpation of the Ministers office which we hear of to our grief to be practised in some places that private Christians ordinarily take upon them to preach the Gospel publickly and to minister the Sacraments Mr. Cotton of the Keys pag. 6. line 33. It is a frenzy of the Anabaptists that begins to labour with the loathsomnesse of it self that any Christian gifted who can teach or minister a word of instruction to win a Disciple after him that he in a corner may baptize him also whom he hath won to his opinion But as Paul said of Jannes and Jambres their madnesse is made appear to all who are not willing to shut their eyes against the Sunne when it shines in its beauty For if the Lord Christ in his infinite wisdome and Kingly care conceived it necessary for the honour of the place and the execution of the work of the Deacon to appoint choice men and solemn ordination to authorize them to the work that they being called and fitted to the work might be accepted therein of the people and blessed of him who did appoint them to the employment In reason what greater need is there that persons who are peculiarly gifted and furnished with grace and abitity should be called to this work of preaching and dispensing these holy mysteries a service above all other of greatest weight and worth Adde hereunto that the Apostle as by a flaming Sword doth stop the way to all pretenders and therefore layes in this prohibition No man taketh this honour to himself but he that is called of God as Aaron he must have a special call from God who must dare to meddle with a service which is of such peculiar eminence in the house of God yea the Lord himself doth appropriate this and that to some persons whom he puts in place He gave some to be Pastors and Teachers Ephes 4.11 Are all Apostles are all Governours are all Teachers 1 Cor. 12.29 This would bring confusion and so destruction to the whole Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 3. pag. 9. line 8 c. and part 2. page 42. line 23. Object 1. But doth not the Apostle 1 Cor. 14.31 say you may all prophesie one by one that all may learn and all may be comforted Answ 1. That place in the Corniths doth not speak of ordinary private members Mr. Cotton but of men furnished with extraordinary gifts the Members of the Church of Corinth as
Churches Church Officers or members See answer to question 13. Therefore they make desperate snares for their consciences and the consciences of others that say none may be Officers or members of a Church but such as are really converted ones 13. God approved Saul and Jehu to be admitted to their kingdom though he did not approve their persons or way of administring their kingdom See the answer to question 15. So by a parity of reason we may conclude that God approves some men to be admitted officers or members of the Church whose persons and wayes he doth not approve 14. It cannot be made good by Scripture-light that none have right to the covenant and external priviledges thereof but as they appear to be in Christ by some effect of faith declaring the same See answer to the last question Therefore to reject any for want of evidence of faith is not warrantable by the word CHAP. II. Of the Form and constitutions of a Church Question 1. WHether had the Church of England ever a true constitution Answ To say that the Church of England never had any true constitution Mr. Cotton is a rash and a false speech rash for can you say it or do you know it because you were then born or because the number of your dayes is great as God questioneth with Job in another case Iob 38.21 Or have you found such a matter by reading of ancient records and stories If you dare credit them as doubtless they are more worthy of credit that lived near those times and had the view of antient records then some of your later books who speak either out of partiality to Rome as the Jesuites or out of prejudice against the state of the Church of England some rigid Separatists do But those antient records will tell you that England received the faith of Christ by Ioseph of Arimathea and Simon Zelotes and others of those primitive Apostolick Saints who doubtless planted Churches not after the pattern of Antichrist but after the manner of the Apostles Mr. Cotton of infant Baptism pag. 186. line 3. Therefore to say the Church of England never had a true constitution is not onely rash but falsâ— for the Churches of England were rightly gathered and planted at the first Mr. Cottons way of the Church pag. 111. line 26. Quest 2. But have nâ—t the Churches of England been wofully corrupted since by Antichristian usurpations and innovations Answ 1. Yes yet that did not cast them into a worse estate than the ten tribes in Israel under Ieroboam and his successors especially under Ahab and Iâ—sabel Mr. Cotton and the time succeeding them when yet God owned them for his Church and their circumcision was not a nullity Mr. Cotton of Infant Bapt. pag. 187. line 9. 2. For the Church now in being most of their members had their admission into the Church sealed in Baptism For many children are born in the Church to whom the pastor is by office a Pastor and whose conversion he is bound to attend and intend Mr. Cotton of holinesse of Church-members pag. 51. line 21. And their baptism seals to them their initiation into Church-membership Ibi. pag. 96. line 31. Quest 3. But they who are now Church-members were baptized upon the account of the baptism of their forefathers and they that is their forefathers were bap ized under Antichrist and so their baptism was a stone lying in Antichrists foundation and how can this give right of admission into the Church of Christ Answ The baptism of believers and of their seed is no more a stone lying in Antichrists foundation then is the doctrine of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost Mr. Cotton three persons in one God into which we and our children are baptized That and other Gospel-ordinances they were in Rome but as the vessels of the temple were in Babylon reserved for the use of the Church after their return Mr. Cotton of Infant baptism pag. 163. line 28. Quest 4. But to the true and right constitution of a Church entring into covenant is necessary is it not Answ 1 That was done in King Edward and Queen Elizabeths days Mr. Cotton and whereas they say our Church is but a Parliament constitution that doth not weaken but establish our Church Mr. Cotton on the 1 Epist of Iohn 2 chap. 19 vers page 157. line 43 44 amp c. 2. The substance of the Church constituting covenant is keâ—t where there is a real agreement and consent of a company of faithful persons to meet constantly together in one Congregation for the publike worship of God and their mutual edification which agreement and consent they do express by their constant practice of coming together for the publike worship of God and Religious subjection to the Ordinances of God Their Platform of Church discipline agreed upon by the Elders and messengers of the Churches in New England chap. 4. sect 4. 3. The people in the Parishes of England where there is a Minister put upon them by the Patron or Bishop they constantly hold them to the fellowship of the people of such a place attend all the Ordinances there used and the dispensation of the Minister so imposed upon them submit thereunto perform all services that may give countenance and encouragement to his person in the work of his Ministry By such actions and a fixed attendance upon all such services they declare that consent and covenant by their practice which others do hold forth by publike profession Mr. Hooker Survey of discipline part 1. pag. 47. line 36. Quest 5. What then is the work that is now to do in the Churches of England Answ The work which is now to do in the Churches of England is not to make Churches where there were none Mr. Cotton but to reduce them to their first primitive institution Mr. Cotton way of the Churches pag. 151. line ult Hitherto of the constitution and form of a Church Now out of this I shall also draw some few plain positions with some inferences 1. To say that the Church of England never had a true constitution is a rash and false speech See chapter 2. answer to the first question 2. The Antichristian usurpations and innovations that have overgrown the Church of England have not nullified the first constitution of it See chapter 2. answer to question 2. 3. The baptism administred and received in the Church of England is no more Antichristian then the doctrine of the Trinity See chapter 2. answer to question the third Therefore they are condemned who refuse to be present in our assemblies when baptisme is administred 4. Not onely baptisme but other Gospel-Ordinances were reserved in Rome for the use of the Church in after times as the vessels of the temple in Babylon See chap. 2. answer to quest 3. Thence quere why not ordination reserved there for the Churches use as well as baptism and yet no more Antichristian then baptism 5. The
of many other Churches in the primitive times were enriched with all knowledge and in all utterance 1 Cor. 1.5 and the same persons which had the gift of prophesie in the Church of Corinth had also the gift of tongues which put upon the Apostle a necessity to take them off from their frequent speaking with tongues by preferring prophesie before it 1 Cor. 14. from ver 2. to 24. so that though all they might prophesie having extraordinary gifts for it yet the like liberty is not allowed to them that want the like gifts In the Church of Israel none besides the Priests and the Levites did ordinarily prophesie either in the Temple or in the Synagogues unlesse they were either furnished with extraordinary gifts of Prophessie as the Prophets of Israel or were set apart and train'd up to prepare for such a calling as the sons of the Prophets When Amos was forbidden by the high Priest of Bethel to prophesie at Bethel Amos doth not alledge nor plead the liberty of an Israelite to prophesie in the holy Assemblies but alledgeth only his extraordinary calling Amos 7.14,15 It appears also that the sons of the Prophets that is that men set apart and train'd up to prepare for that calling were allowed the like liberty 2. But neither the sons of the Prophets nor the Prophets themselves were wont to offer sacrifices in Israel except Samuel and Elias by special direction nor did the extraordinary Prophets in Corinth take upon them to administer the Sacraments Mr. Cotton of the Keyes page 20. line 16. Object 2. But if the Prophets in the Church of Corinth had been ended with extraordinary gifts of Prophesie they had not been subject to the judgment of the Prophets which these are directed to be 1 Cor. 14.22 Answ It follows not for the people of God were to examine all Prophesies by the Law and Testimony Mr. Cotton and not to receive them but according to that rule Isa 8.20 Yea and Paul himself referred all his doctrine to the Law and the Prophets Acts 26.22 And the Bareans are commended for examining Pauls doctrine according to the Scripture Idem pag. 21. line 14. Quest 7. But though every private Christian may not yet may not the Magistrate either inferiour or supreme preach and administer the Sacraments hath not he a power Paramount Answ As it is unlawful for Church-Officers to meddle with the Sword of the Magistrate Platforme of Discipline from N. E. so it is unlawful for the Magistrate to meddle with the work proper to Church-Officers the acts of Moses and David who were not only Princes but Prophets were extraordinary therefore not imitable Against such usurpation the Lord witnessed by smiting Uzziah with leprosie for presuming to offer incense Platforme of Discipline from New Engl. chap. 17. sect 5. Imberare that is to rule and praedicare that is to preach are not compatible that is cannot agree to one and the same person hath been a ruled case admitting no contradiction in an ordinary way Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 1. page 13. line 25. Quest 8. You we even now mentioning Ordination are then these Officers which Christ hath appointed in his Church to be ordained to their Office Answ Church-Officers are not only to be chosen by the Church Platforme of Discipline but also to be ordained by imposition of hands and prayer with which at the Ordination of Elders fasting also is to be joyned Platforme of Discipline from New England chap. 9. sect 4. Quest 9. But is not Election alone enough without Ordination Answ No for as Dr. Ames saith Election gives jus ad rem Ordination gives jus in re Mr. Hooker Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipilne part 2. page 40. line penult Quest 10. Is then the right of Ordination immutable Answ That which is a fundamental point of Religion Mr. Hooker that hath divine institution and so becomes immutable unlesse Christ himself repeal it Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 1. page 7. line 21. But Ordination is a fundamental point of Religion Heb. 6. Laying on of hands being by a Metonymie of the adjunct put for Ordination Mr. Hooker part 1. pag. 7. l. 21. Quest 11. To whom then doth the power of ordaining Officers in the Church of Christ belong Answ 1. Ordination is an act of rule Mr. Cotton and pertains to the Presbyters Mr. Cotton way pag. 49. l. 4. 2. When the Churches are rightly constituted and compleated with all the orders and officers of Christ the right of Ordination belongs to the teaching Elders the act appertains to the Presbytery constituted of teaching and ruling Elders Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 2. pag. 76. l. 1. Quest 12. But what if there be no Elders in the Church who shall ordain the Officers then Answ In such Churches where there are no Elders and the Church so desire Platforme of Discipline we see not why imposition of hands may not be performed by the Elders of other Churches Platforme of Disc from N. E. chap. 9. sect 5. Quest 13. Are the Word and Sacraments to be dispensed by the Ministers thereof only in publick or in private also Answ They must be dispensed publickly in the presence Mr. Hooker and with the concurrence of the Church solemnly assembled It is not in the power of the Church to confine preaching to corners for wisdome cryeth openly in the strâ—ets Prov. 8.2 3. And of old the Church of the Jewes erected Synagogues in every City besides the Temple at Hierusalem for the hearing and preaching of the Word And the Apostle as he compares the Supper of the Lord to their ordinary supper so he opposeth manifestly the Church or Congregation to the private house and declareth that the Lords Supper should be celebrated in the Congregation as the banquet should be kept in their private house Yea the scope and nature of the Ordinance calls for such an administration for since the Sacraments are badges to shew our separation from all other profane societies and to signifie our communion one with another visibly in the profession and confession of the faith as our spiritual union and communion with Christ our head myistcally therefore the administration of them should be such as should suit the nature of the Ordinances and serve the end of it And therefore it is that in times of persecution when the Church dares not nor is meet she should shew her self to the enemy yet not then is the Word nor Sacraments privately preached nor administred neither yet ought to be for though they be done in the house of a private man yet because they are and ought to be administred in the presence of the Congregation there is neither private preaching nor private celebrating of the Sacrament Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 3. pag. 28. line 15 c. Quest 14. To whom are the Pastors and Teachers of the Church to dispense the Sacraments Answ A person hath his first
And at other times as opportunity shall serve thereunto Platforme of Discipline from New England chap. 7. sect 2. Mr. Cotton of the way Mr. Cotton pag. 36. line 20. Idem of the Keys pag. 20 c. Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 2. page 16. 11. And by the same parity of reason if any want comfort sinking under discouragements and sadnesse of spirit or through ignorance are not able to understand the things delivered they may call for the help of the Elder in private that they may be informed and comforted by him And hence it follows 12. That he hath power to enquire into the condition and take account of the special state of such of the members for else how should he be able to administer seasonable and sutable support Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 2. pag. 17. line 33. And that these especially the last mentioned are works belonging to the Ruling Elder the nature of the thing would easily perswade a mans reason to yield thereunto for how unequal and unreasonable would it seem to a man acquainted with the weight and work of the Ministery that when the Pastor or Teacher should be attending upon reading and searching the sense and minde of God in his Word and the mysteries of God therein who is sufficient for these things that they should be then taken off their studies and forced to attend upon mens special weaknesses and wants in private when they should prepare for the publick dispensations so that the one must of necessity be neglected or they distracted in both Whereas this appointment of our Saviour provides for both without prejudice or disadvantage to either Mr. Hookers Survey part 2. page 18. line 24. Quest 24. You have shewn fully what is the work of the Ruling Elders but I pray tell me what is that power they are cloathed with in thâ—se acts of theirs Answ 1. Negatively it is not 1. Any Lordly pompous power Mr. Shepherds 2. It is not any Antichristian unlimited power Nor. 3. Is it and Magisterial power Mr. Shepherds wholesome caveat for a time of liberty pag. 97.98 99. But positively 1. They have power given them of ruling and governing from Christ by the people hence they are called Rulers and have a strict charge and command from the Lord to rule Idem page 99. Hence those cast off the Lords government over then who will have no Rulers nor Governours in the Church but leave all to themselves and their liberty and so by this means they are not only single members or officers but Pastor Teacher and Elder and all This generation of men sons of Korah are risen up in these later times especially among Anabaptists and rigid Separatists whose condemnation sleeps not Satan carrying them to extreams and pride lifting them up above themselves above men above Officers above Ordinances above God Idem page 100. line 4. 2. This power which the Ruling-Elder hath is more than any one member hath which is not an Officer It would be a most simple ridiculous thing if there should be Election Ordination many prayers much tryal of men to rule and guide and govern separation from the rest and yet to have no more power than any other private member therefore saith the Apostle submit to them that are over you 1 Thess 5.12 Obey them that rule over you Heb. 13.17 Master Shepherds wholsome caveat c. page 100. line 28. Hence those that do acknowledge Gevernours in the Church for names sake but they are such as have no more power than a private brother They are to watch say they so are private members to admonish so is every private member c. these allow the name but deny the thing Idem page 101. line 8. Hence also when men shall cry for liberty to speak an Elder forbids it what may not the Church have liberty yes true but you are not the Church An Elder reproves they will reprove again what shall not the Church have liberty An Elder gives reasons strong and unanswerable for something to be done a young fellow steps up and saith without ground or shew of it that is your light and mine is otherwise what may not the Church have liberty yes but you are not the Church This is very sad and hath been a root of greatest scandal that ever Gods wayes had Idem page 102. line 9 c. 3. In the execution of their office according to Christ they are over the whole Church Heb. 13. Obey them that rule you he speaks to the whole Church Mr. Shepherds wholesome caveat pag. 102. line 26. Their power rightly executed is the power of Christ Hence refuse it you refuse to be subject to him if men will not be ruled by ordinances but will rule ordinances they go about to rule Christ Ibid. pag. 104. line 28. 4. They have power to oversee when they see cause Act. 20.28 and to enquire into the state of the flock to know their spiritual condition Mr. Shepherd pag. 105. line 20. Hence men cast off the government of Christ when they will not have their spiritual condition searched into the Elders foot is now too great for his shoe I am to give an account to God so are they also of theirs Now thou canst not give it if thou enquirest not how thy condition stands neither can they with comfort unless thou tellest them how it stands with thee Ibid. pag. 106. l. 3. The Ministers charge is to cast the seed the Elders duty is to enquire after the fruit in the husbandry of Christ but you can quarrel and snap at the Elders when they come to enquire of your condition and why do you enquire you take too much upon you Ibid. 5. They have power to guide counsel and warn the Church at least in all weighty affairs which may concern them and their common good Heb. 13.17 Malac. 2.7 Mr. Shepherd pag. 106. Hence for men in matters of great and weighty affairs which concern the good of the whole Church nay all Churches never to enquire at Abel is a casting off the Lord as in election of Officers in the Church or Magistrates in the Commonwealth Hence to receive any opinion different from all the Elders in the Church and never so much as speak much less come to a sad debate about it is to cast off this yoak Hence to propose a doubtful question to the Church which may trouble or bring an offenders sin to the Church without councel of the Elders hence when men will not take warning from the Elders of evil to come it is a casting off the Lords yoke Ibid. pag. 107. 6. They have power of publike reproof of any member of the Church in case of plain open and publike offences others without leave cannot nor ought not Reproofs are part of the power peculiar to the Governors in any society where Governors are present and at hand In a family no wise man will suffer brawles among children and servants
binde notorious offenders and impenitents under censure and to forgive the repentant Mr. Cotton of the Keys page 13. But yet this enquiring and hearing is not to be understood as if the complaint were immediately and pro primâ instantiâ to be brought to the Church or Fraternity No but it is first to be brought to the Eldership prepared and ripened by them and by them related to the Church for the Elders before that have not onely examined the offender and his offence and the proofs thereof privately but do also publickly revise the heads of all the material passages thereof before the Church and do withall declare the counsel and will of God therein that they may rightly discern and approve what censure the Lord requireth to be administred in such a case Mr Cotton of the Keys page 14. line 36. Quest 15. But yet after the Elders have thus examined the case and declared their judgement concerning it the Church have yet a power to judge have they not Answ Yes but not as an act of rule and authority for there is a judgment of discretion by way of priviledge as well as of authority by way of sentence that of discretion is common to all the Brethren as well as that of authority belongs to the Presbytery of the Church In England the Jury by their verdict as well as the Judge by his sentence do both of them judge the same Malefactor yet in the Jury their verdict is but an act of Popular liberty in the Judge it is an act of his judicial authority Mr. Cotton of the Keys page 14. line 11. Quest 16. What is the difference then between the judgment which the Brethren passe in the censure of Excommunication and that which the Elders passe Answ Great is the difference For though the Jury have given up their judgment and verdict yet the Malefactor is not thereupon legally condemned and much lesse executed but upon the sentence of the Judge In like sort here though the Brethren of the Church do with one accord give up their vote and judgment for the censure of an offender yet he is not thereby censured till upon the sentence of the Presbytery Mr. Cotton Keyes page 14. line 20. Quest 17. Have then the Brethren no power of authority but only of priviledge and liberty Is not binding and loosing an act of authority and power to binde and loose given to the Church of Christ Answ The whole Church may be said to binde and loose in that the Brethren consent and concur with the Elders both before the censure discerning it to be just and equal and declaring this by lifting up their hands or by silence and after the censure in rejecting the offender censured from their wonted communion Idem line 4. Quest 18. Whither is this consent of the Brethren unto the judgement and sentence of the Elders concerning the Excommunication of a Member an act of authority or of obedience Answ The people give consent in obedience to the will and rule of Christ Hence is that speech of the Apostle we have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience when your OBEDIENCE is fullfilled 2 Cor. 10.6 The Apostles revenge of disobedience by way of reproof in preaching doth not follow the peoples obedience but proceedeth whether the people obey it or no it was therefore their revenge of disobedience by way of censure in Discipline which they had in readinesse when the obedience of the Church is fulfilled in discerning and approving the equity of the censure which the Apostles and Elders have declared to them from the Word Mr. Cotton of the Keyes page 15. line 6. And if the people cannot convince the Elder of his errour or mistake in the sentence they are bound to joyne their judgment with his in the compleating of the sentence without impertinent questions needlesse scruples wilfull and disorderly gain-sayings Mr. Hookers Survey P. 3. page 42. line 7. Quest 19. But what if the case prove doubtful and there arise a difference between the Elders and the Brethren Answ If the case be doubtful and the difference grows wide and great it is then seasonable to crave the counsel and help of neighbouring Churches Mr. Hookers Survey part 3. page 40. line 15. Quest 20. May not the Brethren proceed to the sentence of Excommunication without the Elders Answ Excommunication is one of the highest acts of rule in the Church and therefore cannot be performed but by some Rulers Mr. Cotton of the Keyes page 16. line 6. Object But the twenty foure Elders who represent the private Members of the Church as the foure living creatures do the foure Officers had all of them Crowns upon their heads and sate upon Thrones which are signes of Regal Authority Answ The Crowns and Thrones argue them to be Kings no more than their white garments argue them to be Priests verse 4. but neither Priests nor Kings by office but by liberty to performs like spiritual duties by grace which others do by office and grace both Mr. Cotton of the Keyes page 16. line 19. Quest 21. What are the things or cases for which the censure of Excommunication is to be inflicted Answ It must not be for petty and small aberrations but for such evils as the mind and conscience of a man inlightned by the Church of God would condemn in himself or any upon the first serious consideration was his understanding left to the liberty of reason to act thereby and not crack-brained and perverted with prejudice and selfishnesse Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 3. page 34. line 30. Quest 22. But tell us somewhat more particularly and expressely what is the matter of Excommunication Answ Such evils as are either heinous or abominable as fornication murder adultery incest treason or if not so grosse yet carry the face of evil in their fore-head upon the first serious and well-grounded consideration of reason and have been pertinaciously and obstinately persisted in after all means improved for their conviction and reformation Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 3. page 34. line 37. Quest 23. You did a little above Quest 8 mention suspension as a censure distinct from Excommunication in what cases is that practised or used in the Church of Christ Answ In two Cases First thus Members born in the Church and having received their Membership in their infancy being grown to years of discretion must come to tryal and examination and manifest their faith and repentance by an open profession thereof before they be received to the Lords Supper or otherwise not to be admitted thereunto Platform of Discipline from New Eng. chap. 12. sect 7. see before chap. 3. Quest 5. though thy suspension be not strictly a censure being rather actus charitatis than potestatis and as they call it suspensio per modum cautelae Secondly thus while the offending brother lyeth under the censure of admonition he stands in the judgment of the whole Church as a convinced publick offender
right foot in the truth and peace of the Gospel Mr. Cotton yet all Churches are not in a like athletick plight and they that are not so will be loth to call in or look out for help as much or more then others though they have more need then others yea and the best Churches may soon degenerate and stand in as much need of help as others and for want of it may sink and fall into a deep Apostacy which other Churches might have prevented if they had discerned it at first Mr. Cotton Keyes pag. 55. line 7. Quest 5. Why do you say this combination and consotiation of Churches is wholesome Answ It is wholesome as tending to maintain brotherly love and soundness of doctrine in Churches Mr. Cotton and to prevent many offences which may grow up in this or that particular Church when it transacts all such things in it self without con-Mr Cotton of the Keyes p. 55. line 17. Quest 6. But how do you prove it an Ordinance of Christ Answ It is an holy Ordinance of Christ as having just warrant from a like precedent the Apostles were as much independent one from another Mr. Cotton and stood in as little need of help one from another as Churches do And yet Paul went up to Jerusalem to confer with Peter Jamâ—s and John lest he should in vain run in the course of his Ministery Gal. 2.2 And though in conference the chief Apostles added nothing to Paul ver 6. yet when they perceived the Gospel of uncircumcision was committed to Paul and Barnabas as that of the circumcision was to Peter James and John they gave unto one another the right hand of fellowship Now then it will follow by just proportion that if the Apostl s who were independent each of them one of another had need to consult and confer together to procure a freer passage to their calling and to their doctrine than surely Churches and Elders of Churches though independent one of another had need to communicate te their courses and proceedings in such cases one with another to procure the freer passage to the same And if the Apostles giving the right hand of fellowship one to another did mutually strengthen their hands in the work of the Ministery then the Elders of Churches giving the right hand of fellowship one to another in their ordination or upon any fit occasion cannot but much strengthen the hearts and hands of one another in the Lords work Mr. Cotton of the Keys page 55. line 22. Quest 7. Is there any thing which may be added if not for confirmation yet for illustration of the point Answ Yes by comparing the dimension of the new Jerusalem which is the perfect platforme of a pure Church as it shall be constituted in the Jewish Church State at their last conversion Mr. Cotton The dimensions of this Church as they are described by Ezekiel chap. 48.30 are twelve furlongs that is about three miles in length and as many in breadth But the dimension of the same Church Rev. 21.16 is said to be twelve thousand furlongs Now how can those two dimensions stand together that are so far discrepant one from another as twelve and twelve thousand the fittest and fairest reconciliation seems plainly to be this that Ezekiel speaketh of the dimension of any ordinary Jewish Church of one particular Congregation but John speaketh of the dimension of many particular Jewish Churches combining together in some cases even to the communion of a thousand Churches Mr. Cotton of the Keyes page 56. line 7. Object But Theologia Symbolica non est argumentativa Arguments from Parables and mystical resemblances are not valid Answ If there were no argumentative power in Parables Mr. Cotton why did the Lord Jesus delight so much in that kinde of teaching and why did John and Daniel and Ezekiel deliver a great part of their Prophesies in Parables if we must take them for Riddles and not for Documents or Arguments surely if they serve not for Arguments they serve not for Documents Mr. Cotton of the Keyes page 56. line 36. Quest 8. But is this Combination of Churches necessary as well as lawful Answ The Consociation of Churches is not only lawful Mr. Hooker but in some cases necessary Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline preface a. 3. Nemo inquit Parkerus quod sciam Ecclesiae alicujus reformatae alumnus ante Hugonem Grotium negavit Synodos esse necessarias quibus nos 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 libenter profitemur Norton adversus Apollonium pag. 112. Mr. Parker saith that no man that was a Disciple of the reformed Churches did ever deny the necessity of Synods before Hugo Grotius and we do unanimously confesse the necessity of them Mr. Norton against Apollonius page 112. line 17. Quest 9. How many sorts and degrees of Consociation of Churches are there Answ This Consociation is of several sorts and degrees some lesser some greater as Classes Synods Mr. Hooker and these Provincial National and Oecumenical thus farre we agree Mr. Hookers Survey of Discipline part 4. page 2. line 15. and 25. Quest 10. What is a Synod Answ Synods we acknowledge being rightly ordered as an Ordinance of Christ Mr. Cottons Keyes page 23. line 21. And though not absolutely necessary to the being Platform of Discipline yet many times necessary to the well-being of Churches Platforme of Discipline from N. E. chap. 16. sect 1. Quest 11. How is a Synod to be composed and of what Members ought it to consist Answ Because it is difficult if not impossible for many Churches to come altogether in one place Platform of Discipline in all their Members universally therefore they may assemble by their delegates or messengers as the Church of Antioch went not all to Jerusalem but some select men for that purpose because none are or should be more fit to know the state of the Churches nor to advise of wayes for the good thereof than Elders therefore it is fit that in the choice of the messengers for such Assemblies they have special respect unto such yet in as much as not only Paul and Barnabas but certain others also were sent to Jerusalem from Antioch Acts 15. and when they were come to Jerusalem not only the Apostles and Elders but other Brethren also do assemble and meet about the matter therefore Synods are to consist both of Elders and other Church-members endued with gifts and sent by the Churches not excluding the presence of any Brethren in the Churches Platforme of Discipline chap. 16. sect 6. Quest 12. Whether may there be called and kâ—pt a National Synod or no Answ It may so fall out that the State of all the Churches in the Country may be corrupted Mr. Cotton and beginning to discern their corruption may desire the concourse and counsel of one another for a speedy and safe and general reformation and then so meeting all conferring together may renew their
be preferred before obedience to an affirmative precept that is not fundamental though therefore a hoof of truth is to be preferred before the liberties and lives of the ten thousands of Israel yet when the whole community is more endangered by the want of publick order than by the present not observing of some affirmative command not fundamental we ought to have more regard to publick order than to the present obedience of such a command 5. Therefore the particular Church in this case may and ought to submit it self to such order but yet without sin Mr. Nortons answ to Apollonius pag. 118.119 Quest 18. But how can that been done Answ 1. The truth is not to be dissembled Mr. Norton but the Church is modestly and peaceably to bear witnesse to the truth 2. Effor is never to be approved though for awhile in regard of the iniquity of the time it is to be tolerated 3. Wisely and patiently we must wait in our stations in the due use of means till God in his own proper season shall reveal the truth Mr. Norton against Apollonius page 119. line 30. Quest 19. Have all the Members of a Synod equal power Answ A Synod consisting Mr. Cotton as we have heard it doth of Elders and Brethren their power is not the same but distinct the power which the Brethren have it is a power of liberty the power which the Elders have it is a power of authority The Brethren have first liberty to dispute their doubts modestly and Christianly among the Elders so in that Synod at Jerusalem Acts 15.7 12. Secondly they had liberty to joyne with the Apostles and Elders in determining the same as the common sense of them all Thirdly they had liberty to joyn with the Apostles and Elders in choosing and sending Messengers and in writing Synodal letters in the name of all for the publishing of the sentence of the Synod Acts 13. ver 22 23. to 29. But the authority of the decrees lay chiefly if not only in the Apostles and Elders as appears Acts 16.4 So then it will be most safe to preserve to the Church of Brethren their due liberty and to the Church of the Elders their due authority Mr. Cotton of the Keyes page 26. line 1. Quest 20. Whether may a person or persons wronged by particular Churches appeal to a Synod or no for redress Answ There is a right of appeals in weighty causes from an inferior to a superior sentence Mr. Norton And seeing that in Ecclesiastical causes and among Ecclesiastical persons many differences do arise who can deny but that this right of appeals must be granted there Appeals are of divine and natural right and necessary in all societies because of the ignorance and unrighteousnesse of many who are Judges Mr. Nortons answer to Apoll. 3. pag. 112. line antepenult page 114. Hitherto of the Combination or Consociation of Churches and of Synods and their power Now from these particulars that have been delivered let us draw some positions with their inferences First it is lawful for particular Churches to joyne together in a holy Covenant and communion amongst themselves to administer all Church Affairs of weight and difficulty and common concernment not without common consultation and consent about them See answer to quest 1. Hence it follows 1. That if an expresse consent and Covenant be the formalis ratio and constitutive of a Church then these particular Churches thus joyned together make up one Church not representativè impropriè but truly and properly having the true formale of a Church and that which dat essentiam 2. If they have thus covenanted together to transact things by common consent then every Church of the Consociation hath the same power in all matters that the fraternity of a particular Church hath to wit of consenting or of dissenting 3. If they Covenant to administer all their affairs not without common consent then quere whether every particular Church hath not a negative voice which is more then the Presbyterians contend for 4. If they Covenant to administer all matters of weight and common concernment NOT without common consent then the excommunication of any person being a matter of weight as doubtlesse the delivering up of a soul to Satan is and also a matter of common concernment he that is cast out of one Church being cast out of all will it not from the concession follow that no particular Church can excommunicate a Member without the consent of the associated Churches 2. This Consociation of Churches is safe useful and wholesome and in some case necessary See answ to quest 2.3 5 8. they therefore who refuse to associate with other Churches when it is offered let these consider whether they do not forsake their own mercies 3. Even the strongest and best Churches have need of Association first that they may help the weak for all Churches are not in a like athletick plight and secondly for themselves for the best may soon degenerate and for want of Association may sink and fall into deep Apostasie See answ to quest 4. therefore 1. These Associations ought not to be elective for then the strong and athletick Churches may combine together and exclude the weaker and lesse athletick saying we have no need of you which would frustrate the end of combination and therefore the best way is for Churches that are in vicinity to combine together 2. If the strongest Church may need Consociation to prevent degeneration and Apostasie then the best way is to have these Consociations fixed and stated not occasional only pro re nata Sero med cina paratur Quum mala per long as invaluere moras 4. Combination of Churches is an holy Ordinance of Christ See answ to quest 6. Therefore let them consider how they will answer it to Jesus Christ who not only live without this Ordinance but despise it and speak evil of it and yet have covenanted to walk in all the Ordinances of Christ and would be thought so to do 5. Combination of Churches is no more destructive to the power of particular Churches than the Consociation of the Apostles was to their Apostolical power See answer to quest 6. 6. As the Apostles giving the right hand of fellowship one to another strengthened their hands in the work of the Ministery so the Elders of Churches giving the right hand of fellowship one to another upon any fit occasion cannot but strengthen the heart and hands of one another in the Lords work See answ to quest 7. Therefore for the Elders of Congregational Churches to refuse to associate with their brethren of another judgment and to refuse to give them the right hand of fellowship what doth it declare but this that either they do not think we in our Ministery work the work of the Lord or else that they are resolved to weaken our hands and hinder our work as much as they can because though we do Gods work
not yet convinced though perhaps himself be nor admonished from these or like reasons to withdraw from publike communion in word or seals or censures is unlawful and sinful Platform of discipline cap. 13. sect 5. Quest 6. But what if there be many wicked and scandalous persons and the Church tolerate them in it ought not the godly to withdraw and depart from such a Church Answ 1. To separate from a Church for want of some Ordinances or to separate from the true worship of God Platforme of Discipline because of the sin of some worshippers is unlawful Mr. Hookers Survey of discipline Preface A. 3. 2. The suffering of profane and scandalous livers to continue in the Church and partake in the Sacrament is doubtless a great sin yet the godly are not presently to separate from it nor to â—bstain from communion with such a Church in the participation of the Sacrament Platforme of discipline chap. 14. sect 8 9. 3. The hypocrisie of sundry members of the Church and toleration of some open scandal doth not presently take away the nature of the Church nor is separation presently to be made from it Mr. Cotton of holiness of Church members pag. 2. line 8. 4. Christ and his Apostles in their times and the Prophets and other godly in theirs did lawfully partake of the Lords commanded Ordinances in the Jewish Church and never taught nor practised separation from the same though unworthy ones were permitted to be therein Platform of discipline chap. 14. sect 8. And the Apostles kept communion with the Jews as a Church notwithstanding their want of faith in Christ Mr. Cotton of Infant Bapt. pag. 56. line 28. And the faithful in the Church of Corinth wherein were many unworthy persons and practises are never commanded to absent themselves from the Sacrament because of the same therefore the godly in like causes are not presently to separate Platform of discipline chap. 14. sect 8. Quest 7. But if I can go to a Church that is more pure and where things are better ordered and more according to the minde of Christ why may I not leave communion with one Church and go to another As suppose I think the Congregational Churches purer then the Presbyterian may I not leave the Presbyterian and joyn to the Congregational Answ We do not judge it safe or meet for any member of a Presbyterian Church Platforme of Discipline forthwith to desert his relation to his Church and betake himself to the fellowship of a congregational Church though he may discern some defect in the estate and government of his own 1. For first Faithfulness of brotherly love in Church relation requires that the members of the Church should first convince their brethren of their sinful defects and duely wait for their reformation before they depart from them for if we must take such a course for the healing of a private brother by way of brotherly love with much meekness and patience how much more ought we to walk with like tenderness towards the whole Church 2. Secondly By the hasty departure of sound members from a defective Church reformation is not promoted but many times retarded and corruption increased whereas on the contrary when sincere members breathing after purity of reformation abide together they may by the blessing of God upon their faithful endeavors prevail much with their elders and neighbors towards a reformation it may be so much that their Elders in their own Church shall receive none to the seals but visible Saints and in the Classes shall put forth no authoritative act touching the members of other Churches but consultative onely nor touching their own but with the consent silent consent at least of their own Church which two things if they can obtain with any holy humble meek faithful endeavors we conceive they might by the grace of Christ find liberty of conscience to continue their relation to their own Presbyterian Churches without scruple Platform of discipline preface pag. 5. line I. Object But we scruple not onely these but many other things As first Your Ministers many of them had their Ordination from the Bishops and they theirs from Rome and so your Ministery is Antichristian and those that are not ordained by Bishops are Ordained by a Classis or Presbytery which is a power forreign and extrinsecal to the Church whose Ministers they are Answ First For the Ministers that were ordained by Bishops take it thus Mr. Cotton The power whereby the Ministers in England do administer the Word and Sacraments is either spiritual and proper essential to their calling or adventitious or accidental The former they have received from Christ by a twofold act of his First He hath furnished many of them with ministerial gifts Secondly He hath enclined the hearts of his people to choose them and call them as in many Parishes in the City and in sundry Market-Towns and elsewhere or at least to accept them and submit to them being commended to them by the Patron The latter power which is adventitious and accidental that which they receive from the Patron who presents them to the Bishop and from the Bishop who ordains and licenseth them to Minister to Christ and to his people This power though it hath been established by the Law of the Land yet it is both adventitious and accidental for the Ministers power is compleat without it and it is also usurped For neither had the law lawful power from Christ to give such power to the Patron and Bishop neither had the Bishop or Patron lawful power to receive it neither could the people then choose their Minister without the leave of their Patron nor induct him into the Church without the ordination or leave of the Bishop Thus when Pyrates have invaded a ship no man in it neither Officer nor Passenger can come by his own goods but by leave of the Pyrate who upon their submission will give them their keyes of their own vessels and chests this power to come to their own goods received from the Pyrate it is not that which gives them true and proper right to enter upon the possession and use of their own goods for that right they had by a former just title which Pyrates cannot disannull Mr. Cotton but it is onely adventitious and accidenttal I need not apply it to the case in hand the application is obvious Mr. Cotton of Infant Bapt. pag. 181. line 25. And as for those Ministers that are ordained by Classes or Presbyteries as you call them I answer first Ordination is a work of rule and pertains to Presbyters Mr. Cotton way of the Churches pag. 49. line 4. And secondly In such Churches where there are no Elders and the Church so desires we see not why imposition of hands may not be performed by the Elders of other Churches Platform of Discipline from N.E. chap. 9. sect 5. Quest 8. May then we who are members of gathered or constituted
Churches hear their Ministers as Ministers of the Gospel and hold communion with them in their Churches Answ We may hold and retain communion with them in baptizing our children as occasion may fall out by absence of our Ministers in their Churches Apologetical Narration They say but do not Mat. 23. and by occasional receiving the Supper of the Lord in their Churches and receiving such member of theirs as are duly qualified unto communion with us occasionally also our Ministers to preach in their Congregations and receive theirs also to preach in ours as Ministers of the Gospel Papers given to the Committee of accommodation by Thomas Goodwin Philip Nye William Bridge Sydrach Simson Ierom. Burroughs pag. 29. line 17. Quest 9. What shall we judge then of the Separatists or Brownists are they of Antichrist Answ Sure their practice is blame worthy 1. Because they separate where Christ keeps fellowship Rev. 1.18 and that he walks with us we argue Mr. Cotton because he is still pleased to dispense to us the word of life and edifies many souls thereby and therefore surely Christ hath fellowship with us and shall man be more pure then his Maker where Christ vouchsafes fellowship shall man renounce it if they be converted where had they their conversion 2. Have not many of Gods servants heretofore kept company with Churches as corrupt as ours are did not Peter and John keep company with their persons and shall they be more pure and curious 3. Christ commands if thy brother offend thee admonish him Mat. 18.17 c. then tell it to the Church and if he hear not the Church let him be unto thee as a heathen or a publican he doth not say let the Church be unto the as a heathen or a publican if the Church hear not thy complaint Now there are many of our Separatists never admonish their brethren nor made their complaint to the Church and if they did and the Church heard them not must they therefore excommunicate the Church and renounce it Therefore unless you finde in it blasphemy or idolatry or persecution there is no just ground of separation Mr. Cottons exposition of the first epistle of John fol. 156. l. 38. Object I. They say our worship is corrupt Answ Suppose there were and are sundry abuses in the Church Mr. Cotton yet that is no safe ground of separation Ezek. 5.11 Ezek. 9.4 So when the sons of Eli corrupted the sacrifices of God their sin was great yet it was the sin of the people to separate and abhor 1 Sam. 2.17 Mr. Cottons Exposition of the first epistle of John fol. 157. line 10. Object 2 They say our government is Antichristian Answ We say it is that Government that expelled Antichrist and sundry have witnessed it with their blood and I say further That there is no such corruption in our state as was in Jerusalem when Christ and his Apostles kept fellowship with them as two high Priests c. Ibid. line 13. Obj. 3. They say our Ministry and Calling is Antichristian Answ We say we do not profess our selves enemies to Christ Mr. Cotton and for our Calling many of us are elected by the peoples approbation or by such as are set up by the King or State and if God bless our Ministry to convert thousands to God it is an evident sign God approves our Calling for if it were Antichristian they would not convert souls unto God Ibid. line 18. Object 4. They say our people are corrupt and some such as Paul bids not to have communion with 1 Cor. 5.11 as drunkards whoremongers and the like Answ We cannot deny but that there are very many corrupt and scandalous persons in our Church But Mr. Cotton 1. Private Christians have no authority to put them out 2. For Ministers if they see it would turn to the dissipation and destruction of the flock it were better to forbear 1 Cor. 5. Mat. 13.29 30. Ezra 4.20 they ceased from building the Temple when there came a command against it O that you were wise to consider these things therefore they had better forbear when it cannot be redressed without greater prejudice to the Church 3. The corruption of some doth not corrupt the Church nor the ordinances of God he that eates and drinks unworthily eats and drinks damnation to himself not to the whole Congregation and you shall finde many Churches as corrupt as the Church of Corinth yet the Apostle would not have them renounce it Mr. Cottons exposition of the first epistle of John fol. 157. line 28. Hitherto of communion with and separation from the Church now to draw some positions from these particulars with some inferences upon them 1. There may be acknowledged an universal visible Church which is the materia prima of particular Political Churches and may in some respects be called the first Church and particular Churches ortae Chap. 4. answ to first and second question Therefore the Catholike visile Church is not a Chimaera nor a chief pillar of Popery as some please to speak 2. Every faithful person yea every one that looketh for salvation by Christ is bound to joyn himself to some or other particular Church of Christ See answ to quest 3. chap. 4. Therefore some or other particular Church is bound to receive every one that looks for salvation by Christ and desires to joyn himself unto them for to say that every Christian is bound to joyn himself to some particular Church and yet no Church bound to receive him is to lay an impossible obligation upon a Christian 3. All the believers of one place be it Town Village or Parish are bound to joyn together in one Church and this order cannot be disturbed without guilt of Schisme and it is most for edification for men to be of the Church that is in the place where they dwell See chap. 4. answ to quest 4. Therefore the practice of those who gather into one Church members dwelling in three four or six several places distant many miles each from other tends not to edification nor cannot be excused from guilt of Schism 4. Peoples joyning with a Parish in choosing and calling a Minister is such an engagement as it is not safe for such to remove from such a Minister but upon such grounds as may give him due satisfaction See chap. 4. answ to quest 5. Therefore they have provided but an uneasie pillow for themselves to lay their heads on another day who have cast off those Ministers with contempt and scorn to the breaking and sadding of their hearts whom themselves chose and called as most of the members of the gathered Churches so called throughout England have done 5. To separate from a Church either out of contempt of their holy fellowship or out of covetousness or for greater enlargements with just grief to the Church or out of Schisme or for want of love or out of a spirit of contention in respect of some
unkindness or some evil onely conceived or which might be tolerated and healed c. is sinful and unlawful See chap. 4. quest 5. answ 2. Therefore O that those who have rent themselves from us to gather themselves into distinct Churches would be wiâ—ling to behold the face of what they have done in and judge it by this friendly glass and repent of what they have done unlawfully and sinfully 6. Neither the hypocrisie of some members nor the toleration of open scandals nor want of some Ordinances is a sufficient ground for men to separate from the Church Therefore our brethren can alledge no sufficient ground for their separation on from the Churches whereof they were sometimes members 7. Faithfulness of brotherly love in Church relation requires that the members of the Church should first convince their brethren of their sinful defects and duely wait for their reformation before they depart from them For secondly By the hasty departure of sound members from a defective Church reformation is not promoted but many times retarded Chap. 4. answ to quest 7. Therefore let those who have separated themselves the Ministery and assemblies they did sometimes attend upon lay their hands upon their hearts and seriously as before the Lord consider whether they have thus endevored and waited for a reformation in the Congregation where their fixed abode is or whether they have not by their hasty departure or by other indirect means hindred the work of reformation as much as in them lies the Lord lay it not to their charge If for this they be not condemned by their own consciences I am sure they are by their friends and brethren 8. The Ordination of Ministers in England by the Bishops is adventitious and accidental to their calling See chap. 4. quest 7. answer to Object 4. Therefore their ordination by the Bishops doth not make their calling null and void nor is it necessary that they should renounce that call and put themselves upon a new call unless withall they change their station 9. The difference between Independents and Presbyterians is not so great but that it might be healed and there might a be an union if some distempers and carnal corrupt respects did not prevail above principles of judgement and love to peace and truth See chap. 4. answ to quest 8. 10 No just ground of separation from a Church unless you find in it blasphemy idolatry or persecution See chap. 4. quest 9. answ 3. Therefore none of these crimes being proved against the Churches of England they have done unjustly who have separated from them The Conclusion ANd now Brethren If I could with Jotham get up into some Mount Gerizim where I might be heard and not seen or at least where I might be extra jactum lapidum I would speak plainly to you and not as he in parables And I would numbly and as in the sight and fear of God desire you to give not me but the Christian world some conscientious and satisfactory reason of your departing and yet continuing so departed from the Churches into which you were baptized wherein you were converted which reverend Mr. Cotton is not ashamed to own saying We cannot we dare not deny to bless the wombe that bare us and the paps that gave us sucke Mr. Cotton lett print A. 1641. pag. 3. line 27. the most of you that are converted and whereof many of you were sometimes Minister yet now you have not onely made a Negative secession from them but a positive and have drawn and culled out of those Congregations whom yet you confess to be true Churches as many of the choicest members as you could and gathered them as you speak into Churches not onely distinct from but opposite to the Rest of the Churches and Congregations of the Nation I say opposite for verily if you lived among Papists or Jews you could scarce shew a greater opposition or abhorrence of their assemblies and worship than you do of these Some of you may be will hear some of their Ministers sometimes preach though others of you will not vouchsafe that so some of you have heard a Rabbi in a Jewish Synagogue you know this is no act of Church communion you know you hear them Equivocally not as Ministers of Christ but as gifted brethren But who of you will break bread in their Assemblies though the principal leaders of your way have given it under their hand see Pap. of accommodat first to the Parliament and since to the world that they could do it who of you will vouchsafe your presence at the administration of Baptism in their Churches let it be the infant of never so holy parents but make as much hast out of their Assemblies as John the Evangelist did out of the Bath when he heard Cerinthus was in it What is this but to lay all these Churches and all the Members of them at least under the sentence of non communion And for this practice I could never yet hear any thing alledged but what is here fully answered and refelled out of your own Authors 1. If you say Their Churches are no true Churches See cap 3. per totum 2. If you say these Churches they have not the matter of a true Church which is visible Saints Answ This hath been answered already First for the matter Master Cotton hath told you Chap. 1. quest 1. That the Churches of the New Testament consist of no other matter than the Churches of the old consisted of and what visible Saints they were the books of the Kings and Chronicles Isaiah Ieremiah and the rest of the Prophets tell you That unregeneracy unless it be accompanied with such fruits as are openly scandalous doth not keep any from Church fellowship Answ to quest 3. cap. 1. that federal holiness or holiness by separation admits to the ordinances cap. 1. quest 4. And that persons who received their membership in their infancy proving notoriously scandalous ought not to be continued in Church-membership yet if they be that separation must not presently be made is the judgement both of Master Hooker and the rest of the Elders of New England See this chap. 7. answ to quest 6. 3. If you say These Presbyterian Churches have not the right form and constitution that is expresse consent and covenant Answ Why this hath been answered for Master Hooker and Master Cotton and the rest of the Elders agree that the Congregations of England have that which doth as truely constitute them Churches as if they were constituted by covenant as appears cap. 2. answer to question 4. See more cap. 3. 4. If you say In these Presbyterian Churches the Officers Lord it over the inheritance of the Lord and rob and spoile the brethren of the power which Christ hath purchased for them and bequeathed to them Answ It is clear by what hath been spoken already that the brethren in the Congregational way have no more nor other power than what the brethren in