to admonishe those to whom the election off the ministers belongeth to tell them what maner a one owght to be chosen if that be not yet ys not this necessary to commend the election of the minister of the worde to the praiers of those whiche are presente at the election And where as he saithe that yt being extraordinary is not off necessitie to be followed he should haue saide that being extraordinary yt owght not to be followed Now vvhen he graunteth them to be suche as may be vsed althowghe not necessaryly he concludeth against him selfe that they are not extraordinary for as those thinges whiche are ordinarie in the worde off God owght to be followed so those thinges that are extraordinary are by no meanes of vs withowt an extraordinary spirite to be followed thinges whiche may be doone or lefte vndoone are nether ordinary nor extraordinari but haue a meane nature betweene bothe But as it is in in prouerbe the egle ketcheth no flies Maister D. hathe greater matters in hande then thes and yet to keepe the proprietie of speche profiteth muche to the keping off the pure nes of doctrine But the wordes off maister Caluine saithe he are plaine So they are in deede plaine to shewe your great vntreuth and plaine to shewe that which I contende for that is that althowghe some thinges are not to be followed yet other some thinges in this election are and owghte to serue for the direction off the election off the ministers nowe And because you shall not abuse the reader nether with the deniall off thinges to be so which are manifest nor guilfull escapes wherwithe yow goe aboughte to defeate the autorities which I alledge although yt be muche against my will to lenghthen my booke with translating so thicke and three folde of other mens sentences into mine yet being driuen to yt I had rather be somewhat troublesome to the reader then that yowr vnhonest practises shoulde not appeare to all that will not willingly close there eyes against the truthe But before I cum to maister Caluine I will set downe Cyprians wordes which are there commended by maister Caluin Cyprian therfore speaking off the election of a Minister writethe amongest other thinges thus God commandeth that the preyst shoulde be placed before the face off the vvhole congregation off the Ievves that is to say he dothe teache and shevve that the ordeininges off the ministers ovvghte not to be made but vvithe the knovvledge of the people standing by vvherby they being presente either theyr faultes shoulde be discouered or their vertues commended and so it may be a iuste and a lavvfull ordination vvhich is by the voyces and iudgemētes of all examined The vvhiche after vvard according to the dyuine mastershippe or authoritie is obserued in the Actes off the Apostels vvhere Peter speaketh vnto the people off ordeining a bishop into Iudas place Off which place fyrst yt appeareth that the people not onely had but oughte to haue to doo in the appointing off there minister and that not by any custome or decree off men but by the eternall worde off God bothe in the olde and newe Testament Also that theyr right consisteth bothe in examining the life off him which is to be chosen and in the approbation off him yff they like off him or refusall iff they like him not which Cyprian proueth bothe by the 20. off the numbers by this place and the sixte off the actes which he also citeth Now I come to maister Caluin After he hathe in the 13. section shewed that the election off the Apostell into Iudas place is no certaine rule for our elections he sheweth further whearin yt is no rule namely for that the election there was committed to lotte the vocation off an Apostell so requiring that by the iudgement off the lotte as yt were by Gods owne mowthe a successour might be appointed in steed off Iudas But in the 14. section he sheweth the lorde so approuethe off the iudgment off men vvhich he after expoundeth the churche that euen in the Apostels appointement vvhich haue this prerogatiue that they shoulde be created immediatly from God the iudgment off the churche shoulde not be passed by and to that endecitethe the 13. off the actes and 2. verse and this place off the first off the actes and 23. verse and off those places gathereth a perpetuall document to establishe the discipline and order off the churche in elections for euer Whearby appeareth that maister Caluins minde is not as the doctor woulde make vs beleue that ther can nothing be gathered out off this place perteining to our elections Afterward confuting them which vppon the places off Timothy and Titus gooe abowte to proue that the election off the ministers is in the Bishopps powre he saithe thus VVel therfore sayd CyPrian vvhyle he contendeth that yt commeth off the authoritie off god that the minister shoulde be chosen the people being presente in the eies off all and shoulde be by the cōmon iudgment and testimonie approued vvorthy and fitt And forth with reciting Cyprians vvordes before alledged and quoting this place off the Actes he concludeth in this sorte vvee haue therfore saith he that this is the lavvfull vocation by the vvorde off God vvhere those vvhich are chosen are appointed by the consent and approbation off the people Here againe yt is manifest that Maister Caluine vseth this place off the Actes to proue that the election owghte not to be withowte the approbation and consent off the people Furthermore speaking against the popishe election for that in yt all is in the pleasure off the bishoppe He citeth Leo and Cyprian which proue that by the worde off God the church owghte to haue her interest in the election off the minister and many Synodes which dooe severely prohibite suche elections and if they be made commaund that they shoulde be off none effect Then concludeth yff thes thinges be trvve there is this day in poperie no canonicall election nether by Godes nor by any ecclesiasticall lavve And if there vvere nothing els hovve can they excuse them selues that they haue spoiled the churche off her righte And so goeth forthe with confuting off the same reasons off the Papistes which are afterwardes alleadged off the doctor This may be sufficiente to let the reader vnderstande howe the Ans woulde shamefully abuse him with the authorytie off M. Caluin Wherin I doe not forget that in going abowte to proue that this place off the Actes hathe place in diuers pointes in the ordinary election I haue together with those places belonginge to the examinatiō pressed also those which touche the election yt selffe Which I did pourposely that I myghte not be compelled to set downe thes places againe a litell after Where yt beinge alleged for the election which is here alledged for the examination receiueth the same answere off the S. which this doothe Vnto my reason in the second Diuision that if an
to the bishoppes alone is made off custome that is twise a yeare at the least iff any come at the intreaty off some in authoritie of tentimes and not vpon any neede off the churche For when almoste is the request of suche as be in authoritie refused in that election In deede there is no extreme sute the doore is not so harde locked ther neadeth but the liftinge vp off the latche And yt is also I graunte withowt contention For howe can the bishope contende with him sele Vnles he and his conscience sometimes fall owte which cōtention is to be wisshed that it were greater And set me all the borowghes and cities together in the whole realme where elections passe by voice yowe shall finde they can not all afforde so many vnworthy officers as haue swarmed ministers from the sole election of the moste parte off the bishopes in Englande Yf yowr affirmaciōs be so clear that yowe dare com̄itte thē so barely withowte profe to the iudgemēt of mē I dare with better reason let these goe which are donne before the sonne in the conscience off all men which the brwte beastes them selues woulde witnes iff they coulde speake Yf he be condemned off the Apostell which iudgeth off one mans action before the time that is before he seeth what it i◠▪ what great presumption ys it thus to iudge the churche off God And therfore that I be no partaker off yowr sinne and plage which withowt repentance ensueth I answer that I thinke they will chuse the meteste that they will followe the lorde before the lorde of the towne yf the lorde off the towne drawe not with the Lorde that they will not doe one off their neighbours pleasure to the dishonour off the lorde and the hurte off all them selues and the whole congregation that the peace off God not contention will be in the churche off God that they being the church off God and the mysticall bodie off our fauiour Christe shall haue an hable and fit pastor if they haue one lyke vnto them selues and so shal be like people like pastor And iff a whole churche assembled together in the feare off God with inuocation off his name be ouercaried by affection off loue or feare to chose him that ys vnmeet the bishope maie muche more beinge but one man subiecte to the same passions they be onles yow can happely shewe some prerogatiue to exempte him from the common infection So for any thinge yet alleadged the lighte off reason rather fauoureth the election off the minister by many then by one Nowe let vs see whether the holie scriptures wheruppon wee laie the weighte off this election receiue any better answer To youre answere to the ◠and sixte off the Actes yow haue my replye before And where yow add further to the firste off the Actes that Maister Beza saithe that they were not presented by the multitude but by the Apostels onely I know not wherfore yow shoulde bringe that in For I say not that the multitude had the presentation yt appeareth manifestly that no one had the handlinge of that action which striketh the bishopes sole election to the harte yt appeareth also that the iudgement and consente of the churche was required which is that wee desire Maister Beza writeth thus Augustine vvith vvhome this vvhole chapiter is reade very corruptly interpreteth this vvorde they set vpp he set vp not vvithovvt a daungerous error for here vvas nothinge done off Peter by him selfe as one endevved vvith greater dignitie but euerie thinge is done publikely and by voices off the vvhole churche Vppon the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he saithe thus The strenght off this vvorde vvhich is to ordeine by voices is to be noted that vve maye knovve that Paule and Barnaba◠did nothīg by their ovvne priuate pleasure nor exerciced no tyrāny in the churche as the Romishe Harlot dothe novve and his assistants vvhich they call ordinaries And in other place vppon the wordes lay not thy handee suddenly vpon any c. That is saithe he admitte not all vvithovvt choise to any Ecclesiasticall function as muche as in the liethe For all the authoritie vvas not in Timothie but after the election made by voices off the vvhole churche as vve haue saide of the electiō in the 14. of the Actes ād as appeareth by the election off Matthias and the Deacons he that gouerned the cōpanie in the name of the vvhole Eldershipe did by the putting on off his handes consecrate hym that vvas chosen And in an other place were the apostle willeth Titus that he shoulde appointe elders tovvne by tovvne he referreth the reader to his exposition off the place off the 5. to Timothy and the 14. off the Actes And in the same chapiter owte off the whiche maister D. hathe borowed this place he sheweth that albeit all those thinges are not allwaies to be followed whiche were done in the apostolicall elections notwithstanding that they had one vnchangeable ende and asking what that was he answereth amongest other this that nether pastors nor Deacons shoulde be thruste vppon the flocke againste the vvill theroff And after in the same chapiter he saithe plainely that it is tyranny that the gouuernours off the churche shoulde be geuen vnto the churche vvithovvte the consent theroff also that it belongethe to the Presbytery to choose the offices off the churche when they be voide There are a nomber off moe places to be foūde in hī to this pourpose that I may leaue owt heare it epistle in his boke of epist. because I suppose yt is in euery mans handes which is moste cleare for the deciding of this cōtrouersie To come therfore to the examination off this dealinge fyrste in that he saith that it had bene a dangerous error if S. Peter had done any thinge off his ovvne authoritie withowt the assistance of other the Apostels in that he saithe that Timothie had not not onely not the election off the ministers but not the ordination in his povvre but that whiche he did he did in the name off the reste off the eldershipe and in that he saithe yt belongethe chefly to the office of the elders to chuse the offices of the churche as ofte as they be voide and addethe that he neuer founde in any Christian churche established that kinde off election vvhiche is in the povvre one yt is cleare that he vtterly condemnethe as altogether vnwonted as vsurped as tiran̄icall that election whiche is made by the bishope alone and that this is one of the substantiall poinctes off a lawfull Ecclesiasticall election that it be donne by the Eldership Secondly in that he saithe yt vvas the vnchangable pourpose off the Apostels to prouide that the gouernours off the churche shoulde not be thruste vppon the churche againste her vvill that Paule and Barnabas to then-tente they vvoulde bringe in no tyrannie into the churche permitted the election off the elders vnto the voices theroff
of him by sermon or otherwise and the feare least he shoulde be an hipocrite fall as well into the bishopps choise and examination as the peoples Therfore the answere is that that meanes vvhich the Bishop may vse before he is Minister for his triall that also may the church And as the hipocrisie which vttereth not it selffe before iudgement giuen off takinge him to the ministery steineth not the circumspection off the Bishop no more can it blemis he the triall off the church Ther remaineth onely whether to take knowledge off him he shoulde come dwell with the parishe and how longe and at whose charges and whether before the death off the former pastor or after Yf I should saie that the iourney he taketh to the bishopp he should bestowe in goinge to the parishe and be amongest them vvhat vvoulde follow then he must be there a great while or euer they can haue triall off him and therby grow charges As who should saie the vvhole church can not take as good notice off him as the bishop being but one or as thowghe the bishop can take better knowledge off his conuersation in one houre then the vvhole church can doo in one weeke Yf therfore the churche for triall off his conuersation haue neede to keepe him at hir charges a quarter off a yere the bishop hath nede to kepe euerie one that he will admit in his howse a whole yeare Which if he should doo I dowte not but we should haue an easie disputation And if the Bishop maie proceade to election vppon the testimonie off others why maie not the churche doo thè same That which was in ould time touchinge colledges off learninge in euery citie might be now muche more iff the Bishopes palaces and the Canons cloisters vvhich serue now to nourishe a sorte off idle seruinge and singing men were turned into colledges and nourceries off painefull studentes Wher yowe say but admit all these impossibilities No admitte nothinge hould all that yow haue for all is to litle Whatsoeuer perteineth to this cause we are God be praised able to gett it at the swordes pointe I meane off the word off god yow take me vpp for if and and In all my whole booke vvhere haue I so manie as yow haue in diuerse pages But vvhat are thes dowtfull dowtes In your first if which is if the parishe be vvholy or the most parte ignorant for parishe yow should haue put church that is to saie the number off those which doo professe the gospell off Christ For as in the time off persequution when there is no Christian magistrates the churche seuereth those vvhiche being off the paris he are none off the church so when there is a Christian magistrate he owght to prouide that those vvhich are not off the churche thrust not in them seiues into suche affaires as because they are none off the church they haue nothing to do vvith Other wise in that pointe the church should be in vvorse case vnder a Christian magistrate then without him Which were absurde So your first question is answered that the church off God is not ignorant nor vnable to iudge off the soundnes off Docrine To the second yf vvhich is of corruption off religion I say that if the corruptiō be suche as destreiethe the foundatiōs as in the Arrians whiche ouerthrow the person off Christ as in the Papistes which ouerthrow the office off Christ they being no church owght to haue no priuiledge off the church If the corruption touche not the harte and bowels off Religion but as a scabb feadeth off the owtward partes to the deforming onely off the bodie theroff as the churches off the Iewes in times past vvhich thowght the ceremoniall law off meates and drinkes and daies not taken away and as some off the churches bothe Iewes and Gentiles vvhich thowght it lawfull to haue many vviues at once thes and suche life because they take not awaie the title off the church they can not barr them from their interest they haue in choise off there minister◠and if they chuse suche a one as is no◠fitt the magistrate is to hinder suche elections and to driue them to an other vvherunto vvhat yowe answere shal be considered vvhen I come to that place And wher yow aske what if they agree not amongest them selues Euen the same that is donne in other elections that the election be estemed off the moste voices And I beseche yow what is here that may not be said off all other elections off offices in the com̄on wealth which passe by the voices off many So that in going abowt to driue the church from this election yow inferre a necessarie change off the whole state off the common wealth And excepte the last off these questions which is touching contention amongest the people which is a great deale more tolerable then vvhen one bishop vvithowt resistance sendeth foorth suche vermin amongest the people as vve haue to great experience off ther is neuer a one but may fall into the election made by a bishop For vvhat if he be vnlerned as diuers Bishopes be in Ireland What if they be corrupte in religion as some in England What if a gift blinde their eies that they can be content to winke at the manifest faultes off him which is to be admitted What if they be ouerruled off some noble man of vvhom they stand in feare or from vvhom they looke for some pleasure Yow vvill saie all thes be besyde the booke so are all these vvhich yow recken vpp beside all lawes of elections that euer vvere made either ciuill or ecclesiasticall And it is a verie vnequall and as of one that feareth the insufficiencie of his cause altogither a cowardly matche thus to compare the least disordered for orderlie I cā neuer call them elections which the bishop maketh with the least orderly and moste troublesome elections off the people And if a man should iudge off the most fittest maner of chusinge off ministers by the euent I am well assured that all the Ecclesiasticall stories extant are not able to furnishe vs of so many vnworthie ministers chosen by all the churches throwgheowt the world vvhich haue bene since the Apostles times as haue swarmed thes fewe yeares out of the palaces as owt of the Troiane horse off that smale nombre off Bishops which are in England Of the other side if a man will cast his eies into Fraunce bothe in persecution and in peace and from thence looke into the churches of some partes of Sauoie and yet stretche them ow◠farther to certeine commen wealthes in Germany and come home to our neiggbours the Scottes and cōpare generally the ministers chosen off the churches withe the most parte off those which the bishops make if he loue not him selfe to muche and be not a stubborne defender off that he hathe vndertaken he shal be compelled to confesse as muche difference betwene the one and the other as betwene gould
willeth that he should not receyue an accusacioÌ„ against an elder but vpoÌ„ two or there witnesses For wherein ciuill causes euen off bloude the iudge may proceede vnto the sentence off condemnation vppon two or thre witnesses S. Paul vvill not haue Tymothie not so muche as to receyue an accusation against an elder vvithowt so many In ciuill causes a man may be dryuen to his purgation of bloude and to his answere vpon the accusation off one althowghe he can not be so condemned vvithowte his owne confession or other triall that falleth owt after the accusation commenced but the elder shall not be driuen to answere vppon one mans Testimonie There remaineth to answere that vvhich is alledged off Paules receiuynge into the companie off the Apostles by Testymonie of one which if I should answere as M. D. dothe I would aske him how he proueth that vvhich he saith ys manifest for yt ys not expressed there that they receiued him vppon Barnabas reporte If I had said so he would haue charged me with arrogancie thâ—â— I dare set downe that which the holie goste hath not reueled For it is said he was receiued but that he was owt off hand receiued or at Barnabas report it is not expressed And if I would walke his way I could answere that it might be that they fyrst enquired off the trewth off those thinges which Barnabas testified before they receyued hym But I leaue this answere to those which thinke there ys no light in the worlde to discouer suche follies and thinke that S. Lukes meaning was to shew that he was receiued vpon Barnabas witnesse For answere therfore I saye fyrst that he vseth weight and vveight measure and measure which being abhominable before God in biyng and selling suche base thinges yt ys seuen folde more in this holie traffyke off the glorious word off god For when we gyue M. D. for profe off triall in the ministers election that vvhich vvas vsed in the Deacons which ys like and comprehended vnder one heade he laieth in so heauie a vveight wherby he would make vs beliue that the prose ys to light saynge that it is of the election of deacons and maketh nothinge for vs. Now vvhen he deliuereth vs a profe that an election may passe by one witnes he putteth in a lighter weight for he bringeth in an example off S. Paul one not then to be chosen but alreadie chosen Which came not to receiue any authoritie wherby he might be enhabled to doo that afterward which he could not doo before but to conferre of that which he had done before Which came not to submit him selfe to any triall but which had as good right to trie as to be tried to enquyre as to be enquyred vpon And that I take aâ— aduantage off this that it vvil be hard at any tyme to find a witnesse so withowt all exception as Barnabas which knew Saint Paul so well off whom he vvitnessed and was knowen so vvell vnto the Apostels to vvhom he coÌ„mended him I think there iâ— no glew so stronge as can ioyne thes togither A man vvhich is dowbted off may be receiued to talke and conferre vvith an other at testymonie of one therfore he maye be receiued to the mynisterie of the lyke Testymonie Againe three Apostles may receyue one to there conference vpon one mannes vvitnesse therfore one bishopp may receyue one to teache others vppon a syngle vvitnesse Last off all vvhich is most absurd three Apostles may at the vvitnesse off one man receyue one that is dowbted off for a disciple or one off the church therfore one Bishop may likewise receiue one dowbted of to be a mynister of the church for it is cleere by S. Luke vvhich saith that S. Paul first assaied to ioyne him selfe vnto the church that their consultation vvas not vvhether they should receyue him as an Apostle but they feared that he vvas a vvolfe and vvent aboute vnder the colour off professing the Religion of Christ to betray the whole churche off Ierusalem So that yf they had bene persuaded off him as off a Christian they vvould haue admitted him into the church withowt the Testymonie of Barnabas Touching the place of the kinges 1. 12. 3â— The holie Goste doth there laye to Ierobohams charge bothe that he made them off the basest off the people vvhich vvas a great prophanation of the Mynisterie and that he toke them not owt off the tribe off Leuie vvhich vvas an other fault For if he had taken off the wisest and honestest families of other tribes he would not haue said that he toke theÌ„ of the basest of the people And therfore that place vvas fitly alledged in that sense vvhich I set downe and yow that can see no other cause why yt should be quoted vnlesse yt were to proue that the ministerie should be tied to one degree or calling doo your selffe more iniurie then a modest aduersarie would For the light off the place is suche that it will suffer no man to be ignoraÌ„t which hath but halffe an eye to see And yet yow blushe not to require in your next section an other answere vnto it I could haue repeated my answere as yow haue there twise hard togither obiected the same thing but if I be not able to intertaine my reader with that varietie vvhich I vvould yet vvould I be lothe to deceiue him and make him beleue that mutton rosted and rosted mutton be two seuerall dishes For let the reader iudge whether ther be any other difference betwene that vvhich yow confesse my answere vnto and that first section in the page follovvinge vvherunto yow require answere and vvith those colewortes twise sodden yow see I vvas content to let yow goo as I haue done vvithe a numbre off other your faultes To the rest I answer not What is the necessitie off Iudicialls I haue declared Touchinge the not entrie off the incircumcised in harte and fleshe into the sanctuarie of the lord vvhich the Ans alledgeth to proue that the law touching the reiectinge off Idolatrous priestes is abolished change the sanctuarie into church vvhich it be tokeneth and incircumcision into the want off baptisme vvhich vvas the same vnder the law vvhich this is vnder the gospell and then it is the morall and euerlastinge law off God that none vvhich is heathenish in minde and vvithall professeth the same by the not receiuinge off the holie Sacrament off baptisme should be admitted to the church off god And if he saie that it is not perpetuall for that incircumcision of the fleshe is now no fault he owght to vnderstand that the estate off the church in the gospell is shadowed owt by those thinges vvhich vvere vsed vnder the law As vvhen it is said there shal be an aulter built vp vnto the lord in the middest off Aegypte that their shal be no Canamite in all the mountaine off God. And therfore as the remouinge off aulters owt off the church
and by the expresse mouthe off God I see not what man coulde put him owte off yt withowte the same authoritie whiche put him in Laste off all it is verie probable that vvhere yt is saide in an other place that Moses stood vp and praied for Aaron then Moses receiued answere what shoulde be doone withe Aaron towchinge his continuance in the ministerie Where yowr glosse in the ende supposeth contrarietie seinge yt settethe downe none I haue not to answere yt may be the A. lawghed vvhen he vvrote that vvherby he requireth sincere dealing in the scriptures For if this be sitting in his mouthe vvhich corrupteth in a manner all he toucheth vvhy should not also a light housewiffe talke of the chastitie off a graue matrone The nexte diuis belonging vnto the 6. Tract off vnpreaching ministers shall there God vvilling be answered Off election off Ministers vn voices or other consente off the people Chap. 4. pag. 155. IF Chrysostome had had anie thinge to saie towching the election off Deacons he shoulde haue spokē vvhen tyme was and when that place was handled Yet for answere the reader maye vnderstand that Chrysost in that place makethe comparison betwen the election in the firste off the Actes and this and sheweth howe the Apostels did otherwise there then here For there they chose two vvhiche they set vpp before the churche So that vvhen Chrysost saithe the Apostels myght haue chosen the deacons yt may be he meaneth they might haue chosen them as they did the two Mathias and Barsabas In whiche choise I haue shewed the consente off the people was required Yff there were but this place whiche the D. citeth I woulde stande vpon this answer but considering that Chrys in another place affirmeth that Peter might haue chosen him selfe which I would not kepe from the knowledge off the reader I will not denie but that Chrysost might haue heere the meaning the D. supposeth Wherto as I can by no meanes agree vpon the reasons both before and after alledged so the D. is not helped For when Chryso commendeth Peter that he did all thinges by the aduise off the churche nothing off his ovvne autoritie nothing vvith dominion When he addeth also that the same was to auoide contention and that nether he nor the reste off the Apostles should be thovvght to chuse off fauour he declareth sufficiently that there is no bishop of that ether authoritie or holines off life vvhich in making the election without consente of the church dooth not bothe laie him selfe and his ministery open to suspiciō of parcialitle and giue occasion off pernicious debates in the churche He shoulde also vnderstande that this proportion is vneuen and that if yt were granted whiche he desyrethe yet he is not where he woulde be For iff it were lawfull for the Apostels indued with extraordinarie giftes off discretion off spirites to chuse yt foloweth not therfore that one Bishopp may doo so And because yt was lawfull for the 12. Apostels to chuse them withe whome they were dailie conuersante therfore it is lawfull for one bishoppe to chuse those whiche he neuer see nor knewe before Before I goo any further yt is to be obserued that althowghe the Ans holde owte in the defense off this cawse off election by the Bishope certeine wordes of learned mē racked from their meaninge and contrarie to the continual practise off the authors yet the trwthe is that as this assertion is the Papistes and Papistes againste the Protestantes so all his principall bothe argumentes and solutions haue bene worde for worde ministred vnto him owte off the bokes off the ranckeste enemyes off the trwthe Yff the reader will see this question diducted at large betwene the catholikes and the papistes let hym reade Hosius and Phigius in thes bokes which I haue noted I will onely note the places whēce the Ans argumētes are fetched with his startinge holes vvherwithe he vvoulde abuse the worlde And firste off all Marsilius a Catholike whome the lorde had stirred vpp to mainteine the trwthe off the Gospell Aboute the time off Pope Iohn the 12. disputinge againste the sole election off the bishope vsethe this reason whiche wee haue heere in hande namelie that forasmuche as the churche chose here Deacons as it appearethe in the Actes therfore yt owghte muche more chuse her mynisters This reason Phigius as the D derideth no more hable to answer yt then he The manifeste wordes off the texte are that Paule and Barnabas ordeined elders by voces neither is there any learned and godlie man browghte or as Iam perswaded can be browghte that euer denied that the churches were in election off their ministers ioyned with Paul and Barn. That Zuingl saithe some were called to the ministerie off the worde by the Apostels onely what is yt to proue that Paule and Barnabas did here in this place ordeine myinisters withowte the voices off the churche yt is well therfore M Zuing. hath expressed whiche the D. hathe vnfaithfully holden backe who translatinge whole pages to no purpose coulde not here aforde vs one poore sentence off the lengthe off two lines The other halfe off the sentence is this As saithe he vvhen by the decree off the Apostels Peter and Iohn vvere sente vnto Samaria Marcke I beseche yow what manner of election this was The Apostels chose two but suche as were approued mynisters before what is this to proue that the byshope maie chuse those whiche were neuer approued or chosen vnto the ministrie The Apostels chose them to goe an embassage whiche shoulde be ended in a fewe daies and what is that to proue that a bishoppe maie chuse to a perpetuall function The Apostels did yt withowte the consente off that churche vnto whiche that matter did not belonge what is that to proue that the bishope maie chuse a minister withowte the consente off that churche whiche that election dothe concerne for that electiō belonged not vnto the churche of Ierusalem where they were if yt had there is no doubte but the Apostels woulde not haue doon yt withowte the cōsente therof I leue here to speake of the difference of bishop and Apostel off twelue and one whiche beinge obserued in the former section needeth no rehersall And as this maketh nothinge for the election off the bishope so yt maketh against that for the whiche this place is browghte For iff maister Zuing. had bene off that iudgemente that Paule and Barnabas did by them selues chuse withowte the churche he woulde likely haue browghte that example cōsideringe that this can not be properly called any election to the Mynistrie whiche was off those which were ministers before But that yow may yet better knowe the D. vnfaithfull dealinge ioined with shameles bouldnes off alledging authoritice I will set downe Maister Zwinglius iudgemente in this cause which he vttereth in diuers places off that booke owte off whiche the D. hathe alledged this but most manifestly within les
then a dowsen lines of the place from whence he rente this Hauinge inueighed againste the Popishe election bothe for that in yt one bishoppe hathe all the powre and for the vnworthines off those which were chosen he addethe yt semethe therfore that there ys nothinge so agreable to the ordinance off god and to the oulde institution as that all the vvhole church off the faithfull amongeste a people together vvithe certaine learned and godlie bishopes ad other faithful mē hauinge skill in thinges shoulde choose a pastor and a lytle after Let therfore thes provvde bishops and folish Abbats goo shake their eares for yt is conueniente that the righte off the election shoulde be in the povvre off the churche off the faithfull instructed by the counsels off learned men for as that matter ovvghte not to be in the povvre of one so ovvghte not the rude and vnlearned multitude chalenge vnto yt selfe alone so great vveighte off the election c. Let vs nowe see whether the Ans be anie faithfuller in alledginge Maister Bullinger Firste who denieth that Paule and Barnabas did chuse elders and ministers there When we gyue vnto them the gouernmente and direction off the action there is no reasonable man can Imagin that we shut them owte off the election But iff yow thinke that because maister Bullinger saithe they chose therfore he affirmethe that they chose alone and withowte the churche thes wordes can by no means proue yt his iudgemente in other places quite ouerthroweth yt heare therfore what M. Bull. writeth Those vvhiche thincke meaninge the papistes that the bishops and Archbishop haue povvre to make ministers vse thes places of the scripture Therfore I lefte the at Crete that thovv mighteste appointe elders tovvne by tovvne and againe take heede thovv laye not thy handes rashely of any but vve ansvver that the Apostels did not vse anie tyrannie in the churches nor to haue them selues alone doone these thinges vvhiche perteined ether to the election or ordination other men in the churche shut ovvte For the Apostels and elders did create bishops and elders in the church but communicatinge their counsaile vvithe the churches yea and vvithe the consente and approuing off the people vvhiche dothe appeare plainly by the election and ordination off Mathias c. And there citinge howe Moses did cōmunicate the choise off the magistrates withe the people he addeth And so no dovvbte did blessed Titus althovvghe he had hearde thovv shalte appoincte elders in Creta yet vnderstood that nothinge vvas permitted hym to doo priuatly vvithovvte the aduise off the church And because this place is cited also to proue that Maister Bullinger shoulde thinke that the Election 14. Actes shoulde be made by Barnabas and Paule let the Doctor heare what maister Bullinger writethe in the page before sayinge That the lorde from the beginninge gaue authoritie to the churche to chuse and ordeine fit ministers hathe been shevved before in the second sermone off this decade by the example off the moste eldeste churches in the vvorlde Ierusalem and Antioche vvheroff the one did not onely ordeine seuen Deacons but also Matthias the Apostle the other did set aparte to the ministrie the tvvoo notable Apostels off Christe Paule and Barnabas vvherunto is added that the churches off the gentills beinge instructed or directed off Paule and Barnabas did chuse by voices elders or gouernours off the churche Where also he quoteth the same place off the Actes whiche is here in question Thes was I constrained good reader to set downe that thow mighteste vnderstande that the weapons wherwithe the D. fightethe againste this cawse are not as he falsly pretendeth drawne from the godly writers but ministred vnto him by some owte off the armorie off the papistes whose they onely be The places whiche I alledged proue firste that yt is vsuall in the scripture to ascribe that to the principall in an action whiche is commen to them withe other then that althowghe S. Luke had made no mention off the election off the churche but onely saide that Barnabas and Paule chose yet therby coulde not be concluded that the churche had no intereste in the election but onely this that Paule and Barnabas were the cheife in that action Yff that be ascribed vnto Iosue whiche he procured onely and layed no hand vnto howe much more maie yt be ascribed vnto Paul and Barn. whiche they bothe procured ād had some doinge in and therfore that example of al is moste apte for that wherfore it is alleadged I perceiue there is nothinge so cleare whiche the D. will not essaie to darcken seing he saith that yt rather appeareth that the people permitted the election off those gouernours to Moses The contrarie wheroff manifestly appearethe for after that in the 9. verse Moses had bydd them chuse gouernours in the nexte verse he saithe that the people accepted that commaundmente and thowght off yt as a thinge equall Therfore it is moste vntrwe that they retourned yt into Moyses handes againe for then they woulde haue answered that yt was not meete for hym to committe the election vnto them but rather for the wisdome wherin he excelled to doo yt him selfe And where the D. reasoneth off the 15. verse vpon the wordes I toke c. that phrase dothe rather ouerthrowe his purpose then cōfirme yt for it semethe to haue a relation to the gyuinge ād presentinge of those whiche they they had chosen And the very same Phrase is vsed afterwardes in the 23. vers of the spies whiche were sente to spie the lande which notwithstandinge were not onely sente off Moyses but off the people also as appeareth in the 22. verse and in the booke off numbers where the lorde doothe not onely attribute this sendinge off spies vnto Moises but vnto the people Moyses gaue no further authoritie vnto them then they whiche in ecclesiasticall elections ordeine those whiche were chosen before and confirme the elections whiche are made Therfore as those ordinations exclude not the authoritie off election so this confirmation off Moyses did not deuoure that powre off election whiche he had gyued them but theyr elections and his confirmation made vp a full creation of those gouernours Towchinge the false accusation off pushing at the magistrate I haue answered Those verses off the 22. and 23. off the 25. Actes whiche yow alledge shewe who bore the swate in the makinge of that decree But yet in that the letters were written in the churches and not onely in the Apostels and Elders names and for that the decree is ascribed vnto them by whome the letters are subscribed yt is manifeste that that consente and subscription off the people occupied some rowme in that decree Nether is that alledged owte of M. Calu. any thinge againste that I saied that the people had to doo in yt and gaue consent but giueth asmuch to the church as I in saying the churche committed the matter vnto the decision of the Apostels
For althowghe he saie so immediatly after he addethe Excepte peraduenture nevve elders vvere appoincted to the parishes for then the multitude off the place muste namely consente And after he saith Althovvghe in the elders alvvaies the consente off the cytisens vvas required Hytherto appeareth that all the elections were made by consente off the people if otherwise by their curteousie or as maister Caluin in an other place note the negligence Where the D. addeth And some times onelie the minister did firste choose and then offer those whome he had choosen to the magistrate who ratyfied the election if he liked it if not chose other c In deede here is an election withowte the consente off the people but what is that caetera belike some straunger which perteineth not to this matter Marke then againe good reader that if this were his owne doinge there was neuer suche a clypper off koine as he of the writinges off Godly men For yt followeth euen in the same sentence wherin the whole weighte off the cause dooth consiste Then the matter vvas brovvghte to the multitude vvhich althovvghe it vvere not bouÌ„de vnto those foreiudgemeÌ„ts yet therby vvas hable to make the les tumulte or if the people did beginne that vvas onelie to knovve vvhom they did moste desyre And vvhen the peoples voices vvere hearde then in the ende the clergie chose So that nether the clerkes coulde set in the ministerie vvhoÌ„ they listed nor it vvas not necessarie to obeie the folishe desires off the people Coulde there be anie plainer wordes then that the people was not bounde by that bothe the elders and the magistrate had doone but were yet at their choise if they liked not the chosen After Maister Caluin saithe that this manner off election by the ministers magistrates and people vvas in force in pope Gregories time and like to haue continued longe after Off yowr Canons heere alledged one onely excepted which maketh nothinge for yow the reste make directly againste yow For the canon attributed to the Apostels yt is there saide that if a bishop chosen vnto a churche doo not receiue yt he shall bee seperated from the communion vntill he take yt But yf it be throvvghe the naughtines off the people vvhich vvill not receiue him then he shall remaine bishop still and the clergie shall be seperated from the coÌ„munion because they tavvght their people no better to obeie Where appearethe that the bishoppe coulde not enter onles the people were willinge And where the canoÌ„ woulde haue him bishop still yt meaneth that he should reteine the name of a bishop because he was put by withowte his faulte Whiche thinge was grauÌ„ted to Miletius to vvhoÌ„ the Councel of Nice in the Synodall Epistle gaue the naked name of a bishop In the Ancyran Councell whiche yow alledge there is the same sauinge onely that yt is more directly againste yow For there the Councell willethe the bishopp appoincted vnto a churche yf it will not receiue him to retourne vnto his olde place of eldershipp where he was before The selfe same dothe the Canon Which yow alledge owte off the Councell of Antioche confirme So that thes three Canons can tel the bishop apoincted by other bishopps off the prouince no other remedy if he be refused off the people but to quiete him selfe and retourne to his oulde place off Eldershipp And that yow maie knowe howe contrarie alwaies maister Calu. is vnto the Ans obserue that off the same Councell off Antioche and no dowbte of the same Canon whiche the D. gathereth that the churche hathe nothinge to doo in the election Maister Caluin gathereth that the Councell ordeined that none shoulde be thruste vpon the people againste their will. The 12. Canon off the Councell of Laodicea in sayinge that a bishop ovvghte not to be appoincted to the gouermente off the churche beside the iudgement off the Metropolytan and other bishopps harde by gyuethe to vnderstande that as they had a stroke in that election so ther were other that had to doo beside them For otherwise yt woulde not haue spoken so koldly off yt For it saithe not that the Metrapolitaine and other Bishoppes shoulde onely appoincte a bishoppe no not so much as that they should appoint but onely that the Bishoppe shoulde not be appointed vvithout them The 13. Canon which prouideth that it shoulde not be permitted vnto the people to make election off the minister agrethe well with the 16. Canon off the Councell off Antioche Which as it vvoulde not haue a bishopp put vppon the churches otherwise frowarde without their consente as hathe bene shewed so vvill it not that those which the churches had chosen without the iudgemen off the bishoppes rounde abowte shoulde stande in force And if either Maister Caluin or Maister Beza haue any credite vvith yow yow haue their interpretatioÌ„ that the meaninge off the Councell was not to shutte owte the consente off the church but onely to prouide that the ministers and elders shoulde haue direction as beste hable to iudge off the fitnes of him that shoulde be chosen If they haue no credit with yow yet vvhether ye wâ—lâ— or no yt may manifestly be shewed that the canons meaning was not to shutte owte the people by other Councels off Nice off Constantinople off Toled off Cartage alleadged in the former booke Wheroff some goinge before and some comminge harde after with suche cleare testimonie off the peoples consente in the electioÌ„ decleare sufficiently that the Councell of Laodicea cannot be thowghte to haue had any suche meaninge as yow suppose but that there be no coÌ„trouersie I wil add to theÌ„ the testimony off suche wherby shall appeare not onelie what the iudgmente off those Councels are but what was bothe the customeÌ„ off the churches and the iudgement off other Councels from time to tyme in this behalfe In the Councell off Paris yt was thus decreed And because in certeine thinges the oulde custome is neglected and the decrees off the Canons are broken yt is our decree that accordinge to the olde custome the Canons off the decrees be obserued Let none be ordeined bishop againste the vvill off the cytisens but he vvhom the election off the people and off the clerkes vvith moste full consente hath required Nether by the commaundement off the prince nether by any other condition let hym be thruste in againste the vvill off the Metrapolitane and other the bishoppes of the same prouince In an other Councel Let yt not be lavvfull to get any bishopricke by revvardes or by other procurement but by the vvill off the kinge accordinge to the election off the clergie and off the people as it is conteined in the auncient canons that the bishop shoulde be ordeined by consente of the clergie and of the metrapolitaÌ„ or him that he vvill appoincte together vvith the bishops of the same prouince And after Besides this accordinge as the olde canons haue decreed no bishopp maie be
the Epistell againste the circunstance off the place he alledgeth that the moste off the preceptes conteined in that epistell doo properly perteine vnto Timothe as he is a bishop Which is vntrwe especially in that sense he taketh a bishop which the Apostels neuer knewe off for there shal be scarse two sentences found in the whole epistle which agree not to euery pastor And set aside those whiche cōcerne teachinge there are very fewe not commen with him vnto an elder which onely gouerneth Beside diuers belonging vnto the whole church as well as vnto him and some rather to other partes off the church then vnto him yet iff the moste shoulde properly belonge vnto him howe can he proue that the sentence off not layinge one off handes rashly doth onele belonge vnto him he hath cyted many to proue that Saint Paule saith yt doth belonge vnto the bishop which is not denied but that yt doth onely belonge by this place off Saint Paule which is denied he hath not one Nay diuers off his authors heere alledged haue the contrarie off that he pretendeth to proue by them For Bull. I haue saide Calu. denyinge that ether Paule or Timothe did any thinge in elections withowt the consent off the church towching the bare ceremonie off layinge on the handes he dowteth whether yt were doone by one or many And Ierome althowgh he saie that the ordinacion belonged to the bishop yet I haue shewed in the former booke that he cōfesseth that that was by no order of God or rule of the Apostles by which he confesseth that the bishopps were equall vnto the reste of the elders but onely by constitutiō off men Therfore he is vntrwely cited to confirme that by this place off the Apostell the bishoppe hath ether the election or ordination vnto him selffe As for Chrysostome and Oecumenius vnto whome is added Beza pag 226. Where this is repeted I answer at ones that yt semeth violent that the Apostle vsinge the worde eldershipe shoulde shutte forth those which were properly called elders And where I alledged pag. 226. that Chrisostome ment not by those wordes to put a distinctiō betwene elders by age and office I was deceiued The occasion was because he doth so in the same epistle where he had no more cause then heere and not lokinge vppon the the place when I wrote I tooke one for another But yt is to be noted that their interpretation is directly againste the D. for Chrysostome affirmeth that the Bishoppes off Ephesus which appeare to haue bene diuers in the Actes did lay on their handes and Beza that all those vvhich had the mynistrie off the vvorde are meant by the vvord presbitery So that by their iudgement one onely did not ordeine nor lay on handes both which the D. affirmeth As for the other sentence off Chrysostome with Theophilacte althowgh Paule lefte vnto Tite to doe those thinges which were ioined with most honour yt foloweth not that he lefte them to be doone otherwise then himselfe did them But he doth to much abuse his reader which would make hym beleue that he drewe this from the godly writers which he hath from professed enemies off the trwth For thes are the reasons off Pighius which to proue that the bishopp onely should choose and not the church alledged thes twoo places off Tite and Timothe which the Answerer hath Thus the firste reason off the D. with all the authorities wherwith he hath walled yt is gone to the ground for as for Ambrose testimonie yt maketh nether whot nor kolde no man dowteth but that Timothe owght to be circumspecte in ordeininge ministers The second reason is that iff the election off a bishop had off necessytie perteined vnto the people thē S. Paul would not haue writtē to Timothe of yt but vnto the churches as well as vnto him As though there were not many thinges in those epistles necessay for the churches to doo or as though they inscribed vnto Titus and Timothe are not written for the instruction of the whole churche euen in that very sentence off imposition off handes For when Saint Paule tawght that Timothe mighte not lay on his handes rashly he tawght the whole churches that they shoulde not chuse any rashely What is I besech yow in Saint Lukes two bookes dedicated vnto Theopilus which doth not aswell perteine vnto all sortes off men in the church as vnto him That the holy ghoste therfore intituleth his bookes sometimes vnto particular persons was not that the Doctrine conteined in them shoulde more perteine vnto them then vnto others but ether because he woulde lifte vpp their heade aboue the reste or for some other particuler circumstance .. And in Maister Caluines iudgement they were both written rather for instruction off other in the church then for Timothe and Titus For there beinge great resistance made vnto those younge men off diuers in the churches off Ephesus and Crete the Apostle to supporte them againste their aduersaries and to gird them with more authoritie so intituled their epistles that they mighte knowe that those thinges they did ād tawght they nether did nor taught of them selues but by his cōmaundement As therfore all thinges conteined in thes Epistles were to be knowen off Timothe and Titus so were they all to be knowen off euery one in those churches And as there are thinges in them the exercise wheroff concerned Timothe and Titus onely so there are other the exercise wheroff did at no hand apperteine to any off them As for the circumstance off the place which he saieth is against my replie he sheweth none But there is a manifest circūstance againste him which the Apostle by and by addeth kepe they selfe pure and communicate not vvith the faultes off other as iff he should saie althowghe thow canste not hinder the ordeining off insufficient officers of the church yet kepe they selfe pure Moreouer if this writing vnto Timothe alone that he should laie handes off none rashely shoulde giue him alone authoritie to ordeine and electe pastors then yt should followe that not onely the church and elders off Ephesus but the Bishopes which were there together with Timothe should haue bene shutte owte which iff the D. dare not saie beside that this holde is gone he muste recante the sole election and ordination by Timothe Yow maie easely put me owte off dowbte off that which I neuer dowbted and which I haue somewhere confessed that by the ceremonie off layinge on off handes the whole forme off orderinge is vnderstanded But off that yow shoulde proue that in that place off Saint Paule it is so vnderstanded althowghe yt is not that which can hurte our cause yow bringe not so much as maie induce vnto any the leaste suspiciō Your reason that he did electe because he did appoincte is to symple For albeit to chuse be to appointe yet euery one which appointeth chooseth not no more then yt followeth that because euery man liueth
to Lazarus dead in his graue come forth and to the Palseie man ryse and vvalke And his breathing beinge the Sacrament off those wordes receiue the holy goste they muste off necessitie be referred to the same ende So that if our Sauiour woulde declare his deuinity by one it was his minde to doo the same by the other And if because he instituted a minister by those wordes they are to be vsed then the breathing also must lykwise considering that he vsed that for the confirmacion off the wordes Where he saith they conteine a perpetuall promise off the presence off the spirite with those which Christe shall call euen so doth the commaundinge off the sea c. to be quiet conteine a perpetuall promise that the winde and sea shoulde ryse and fall for the profite off those vvhich be the Lordes But as there is no promise that that shall be in abating their rage so foundainly as our Sauiour Christe did so there is no worde that the Lorde will giue his spirite by pronouncing off this sentence The bishop saithe he hath no meaninge to commaunde Nether had the Papistes but why he shoulde speake one thing and meane another he can shewe no reason therfore our faulte beinge in this poincte the same vvith the Papistes hath the same Censure off writers inueighing againste this vnaduised imitacion That which is saide that if any patron off calling is to be followed our sauiour Christes owghte is a grosse begging of that in controuersie and then apparantly refuted in that our Sauiour Christe gaue newe names in his ordination sente forth two by two commaunded they should cary no weapon c. which can haue no place in our ordinacions Where I alledged that the reason was not one in thes wordes and in the wordes off the supper in that the minister doth not commaund that the bread be the body but saith yt is he answereth nothing Tract 3. and 4. according to the D. That all ordinarie Ministeries are annexed to a certein place THe A. in heaping vp certein differences betwene the office off an Apostle and Pastor answereth nothing to the matter Yff this be true which is set downe that they be like in this that a certein church is to a pastor or a minister vvhich the twelfth place was then amongest the Apostels the reason off the Adm. is mainteined For then as it was not lawfull for them to haue proceeded vnto a newe election if Iudas had not fallen from his ministerie so it is not lawfull to ordeine Pastors so longe as the place is full likewise if the Apostels would not vndertake any election but where they had the light and guide off the worde off God to shewe them the way not onely what manner a one but when he should be chosen muche lesse is it lawefull for the Bishoppes The first off thes being so cleare as the A. durst not plainly denie he doth notwithstanding pushe at priuely saying that Paul and Barnabas were added aboue the nombre off twelue But he should haue knowen that they were added by the Lorde and not by the church where he should haue shewed that the Apostels c. chose the thirtenth Apostle And we denie not but the Lorde may nowe if yt seme good vnto him choose some Minister which hath no certein place That which he obiecteth off Epaphroditus c. to be Apostels suche as we speake off is an absurd begging off that which is in question Where against the second point he saith that there is no suche thing in the Election off the Pastors as that in their election the scripture should be fulfilled c. allthoughe there be not so particular a worde as off chusinge one into Iudas place yet there is a certein rule in obedience whereoff the scripture is daily fulfylled And so falleth also his other exception which supposeth that off one example we make a generall rule Considering that we craue no further helpe off that example then the same was compassed by the worde off god The A. grauntinge the distinction off ordinarie and extraordinarie Ministeries and yet denying that it can be warranted by the scriptures poursueth his former traine off shrincking the scriptures Seinge yt followeth thereuppon that some truthe in Diuinitie cannot be warranted by the worde off god The question moued off the Elders is out off place the answer whereunto shal be differred vnto the proper treatise The absurd speaches which he hath here and in the next Diuision off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes come to be examined in the answer to his third chap. Heere first he trifleth with his reader whilest he supposeth that I ground the function off Elders vpon the 4. off the Ephes and that Iesteme that place a perfect rule of Ecclesiasticall functions when as not onely I haue no syllable sounding that way but haue declared the contrarie in that by a long discourse in the question off the Archebishop I haue shewed that that place is onely of the Ministeries occupied in the worde That which he speaketh heere off ouerseing shepherdes and watchmen belongeth to the 6. Diuision where yt is repeated That off one shepherd hauing many flockes belongeth to the question off hauing many benefices Yt remaineth to mainteine that part off the Diuision which setteth downe the Doctor off the church as a seuerall member from a Pastor Which may appeare by that the Apostle placeth them both to the Romanes and Ephes as diuers beside that the giftes differing whereby those functions are executed and there being apt to teache and therfore meet for the office off a Doctor which haue no grace in exhortacion or mouing the affections off the hearers and therefore not so fit to be Pastors yt must followe that the functions be diuers And where the Ans opposeth vnto vs the iudgement off one or twoo it is easye to shewe not onely moe authorities off priuate men but the vse off the Elder churches euen from the Apostels time Epecially in Alexandria where the distinction off the Bishop and Doctor off the church is so often obserued by the ecclesiasticall story also the coustome continued in cathedrall churches as they are called wherefrom time to time beside the Bishop hathe bene a reader And if thes were not distinguished thē must it needes follow which in an other place the A. denieth that there were ordinarily two Bishops in one church considering that beside the Elders and him which they commonly called the bishopp there was also a Doctor Nether ought it to be any hinderance to this distinction that Saint Paul coupleth the Pastor and Doctor together where as he sundred the rest that goe before by this worde Some For the coniunction dothe not couple them in signification but maketh them onely couples off the liberalitie off Christe towardes his church Especially considering that bothe this coniunction And is oftentimes a note to couple seuerall members off one diuision and the Apostel would rather
when I added they were argumentes drawne off the nature off thinges wherunto the Ministers are likened and are for the moste part vsed by the holy gost himselfe I preuented that obiection wherunto the S. saithe nothing But if they proue nothing because they were similitudes then his answers to ouerthrowe them being bare similitudes and in thinges wherein they be compared moste vnlike are insufficient The rest off the second section off this diuision which is almoste a whole syde ys perteining to the question off Residence and off hauing twoo benefices Vnto thes argumentes which I vsed as hovve they should knovv his voice vvhen they can not heare yt acknovvledge him vvhen they can not knovv him follovve him vvhen they can not see him goe before or hovve he should heale their diseases vvhen he can not possibly knovve them he answereth not a worde That S. Paul in commaunding to appoint Elders throwghe euery citye ment euery companie off the faithfull rysing vnto a nombre cōuenient to meet in one assemblie yt is manifest by the place off Saint Luke where yt is saide that elders were ordeined thorowghout euery congregation Wherunto albeit the Ans could say nothing yet in pressing the word cytie he sheweth his good will. Vnto this yt may be added that the scripture vseth oftentimes for shortnes sake by a cytye to comprehend as well townes and villages as the great cities For where Saint Matthew hath citie or towne S. Luke hath citie onely and in diuerse places off the tenth of Saint Matth. 9 and 10. off Luke the precepts gyuen off the Apostels behauiour in the cities are necessarily vnderstanded off other places Likewise that both M. Beza and Erasmus reformed herein the ould translatour changing his translation off citie by citie as that which attained not fully to the meaninge off the Apostle into a more generall speach off tovvne by tovvne This shall yet better appeare in the 3. cha 8. Tract where it shal be shewed howe the institution off God is that a Bishop shoulde be not off a diocese such as ours or prouince but off a particular church Which treatise I would haue drawne hyther as vnto the proper place but that these places are so intangled with the question off the Dominion off the Bishop that I could not without too great trouble off the reader seuer yt Where he saithe that Saint Paul commaunding to appoint Ministers to certein places did not thereby forbid Titus to make Ministers hauing no certeine place he should vnderstand that S. Paul knewe he had to doo with one which had learned well that lesson off the lawe off God Thovv shalt onely doo that vvhich I cōmaund the. And it is shamefull iniurie doon to Titus once to thincke that he made kindes off Ministeries whereof he had no commission by the Apostle The rest is nothing but a manifest begging off that which is in question Where I alledged the councell off Calcedon that none shoulde be ordeined losely but vnto some speciall congregation the D. being at a bay and hauing no place to escape commeth vpon me vvith open mouth and will beare the reader in hand that I haue falsified the Councell and why forsooth becawse I haue left out these wordes Or in the place off Martyrs buriall or in monasterie I left them out in deed because we haue no vse off them Howbeit what syllable is there here which helpeth him or in all the canon which he hath set downe That the councell men◠not that a man must off necessity be ordeined to a certein place but that he should haue some stay off liuing is directly contrary to the councells wordes which expresseth the first plainly and off the later speaketh nor a word The reasons vsed haue not so much as any sense and are drawen first from the filthie puddle off Popish diuinity that there be eccesiasticall ministeries withowt cure and places not neding any pastorall charge wheras if those monasteries c. were lawfull assemblies euery ecclesiasticall ministery was as necessary for them as for other Afterward they are drawne from a shameles corruption off the councels wordes by sworne ennemies off all good order in the church which to ouerthrowe a plaine meaning haue interpreted vvithovvt hauing some title withowt hauing some possession or liuing And that I haue set downe the true meaning off this councell may easely appeare by an other which forbad this wandring from citie to citie For Theodoret reprehending Eusebius bishop off Nicomedia for leauing his owne church to be bishop in an other alledgeth a canon wherby yt was ordeined that none ether bishop or elder should goe frō citie to citie Wherby appeareth they had all certein places Yea the D. Denis shall giue testymony vnto vs in this behalf whose wordes be vve haue appoincted to euery elder his proper parish and church yeard and ordeine that euery one kepe his ovvne right so that none enter into the boundes off an other parish but euery one contēt him self vvith his ovven and so gouerne the church cōmitted vnto him that he may giue account c. But that this shameful facing off the D. may be manifest I will set downe Caluins iudgement off this canon wherby shall better appeare who hath vsed most faith herein he or I. Speaking against the Popish making off ministers he saith But it vvas ordeined in the councell off Calcedon that there should be no absolute ordeining off ministers that is to say onles there vvere a place assigned vvhere the ordeined might exercise his charge Here is the same sense and exposition off the councell which I haue followed as full in euery point now let vs heare owt off what schoole the D. exposition commeth He addeth a litle after But our Romish maisters vvhich thincke nothing to be cared for but the belly fyrst interprete a title a sufficient reuenue vvherby he may be able to liue vvhether left off his freindes or by some benefice Therfore ordeining a priest or Deacon if he able to liue they giue him the degree not regarding vvhere he should exercise his ministery But vvho vvill euer admit that the litle vvhich the councell requireth is a yerely reuenue to mainteine himselfe vvith And after shewing other fraudes wherby they haue deluded other councells which cōfirmed this he addeth is yt not alvvaies absurd to ordein an elder to vvhom there is no place appointed wherby appeareth not onely Calu. iudgement off this question but how impudent a corruption off the councell he estemeth this which the D. so greatly alloweth The councell off Vrbane owght to make the D. blush and the corruptions which he to so small pourpose chargeth his booke with cause it to speake so lowde that the very deafe eares owght to heare For this diuinity off the later popery which he mainteineth being condemned off the former hath therby a brand of corruptiō wherby it may be knowen Consydering that popery geue still from euill to
worse and that it was not able to put this order off the church to flight vntill yt approching vnto her full age had gotten greater strenght off wickednes What Ierome hath of this matter I haue shewed In the next Diuision beside this question whether yt be conuenient for a minister to take wages which can liue off his owne which I will not enter into there is nothing but bare repetition and open petition of that in controuersie The next chap. of Ceremonies in ordeining is answered before That functions off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes are not ordinarie Chap 3. pag 229. TO th end it may be better vnderstanded that the D. hath here in maintenance of his Anabaptisticall dreame so confusedly turned vppon heapes I will first mainteine the argumentes which I haue set downe after answer vnto his reasons taken out of the scripture thirdly shewe howe impudently he hath abused the autoritie both of elder and later writers to couer this phrenesie Which shal be doon so much the shorter as he is vnworthye any answer at all First to nip at the distinction off ordinary and extraordinary functions receiued off all which haue but a sparkle off iudgemente he saith that the gift off foretelling thinges to come was for the tyme wherin yt was ordinary Which beside that yt is senseles yt being ordinary in this part which is doon by a setled order and rule appointed off God vnto his church yt ys also from the pourpose consideringe that the question is not off an ordinary function in the beginning off the Gospell but off the gospell symply which reacheth to the whole estate off the church vnder the Gospell Therfore forasmuch as he can not deny but such Prophetes if any were should nowe be extraordinary the distinction standeth After to that I set downe off the vvord Apostel extended in the proper signification to all Ministers that are sent which the knowledge of the Greek word might haue led him to he opposeth Caluin which saith in the proper signification it onely comprehendeth the nombre off 12. Wherin he declareth himselfe but a trifler For onles he be at defiance vvith his grammer he shal be constreined will he nill be to confesse it to be true which I haue set downe That which Maister Caluin saith is not contrary considering that vvhere I spake off the generall vse off the worde he spake of the vse off it in the newe Testament where it is most vsually taken in that sense As for that he saith it is the proper signification he meaneth not the naturall as I ment and expressed but the particular in which sense proper is also taken which appeareth in that he calleth the other generall Where I assigned a proper note off an Apostell to be called immediatly off God he setteth him selfe to confute it when a litle before he had statly confessed that yt is a thing proper vnto the Apostels to be called off God immediatly His first exception is of Matthias which he saith was not so chosen which is vtterly vntrue where he saith also that I confesse the same that is an open vntruth For I shewed that the election out off those two was permitted vnto lot that thereby the Lord might from heauen declare whom he would haue to be an Apostell So that the church chose no Apostle but onely chose twoo off the which one was taken by the Lord to be an Apostle His other exception is off Barnabas which being an Apostle as he saith appeareth by the 11. off the Actes not to haue bene called immediatly where there is not a word which confirmeth that and therfore he durst not note the place whereoff he gathered yt Where he saith it can not be proued by the scripture that he was so called he beggeth the thing in controuersie not able to answer the reasons alledged For where he saith that S. Paul doth not say that he sawe Christ to proue that he was an Apostel but to proue that he was not inferiour to other Apostels he is manifestly confuted both by the wordes going before and folowing after For hauing propounded this for his question am I not an Apostell ād not as he saith am I inferior to any Apostel he addeth for a reasō haue I not seen Christe And in the next wordes that followe yf I be not an Apostell vnto others yet I am to yovv he declareth that the estate off the question is there whether he were an Apostel or no. To that I alledged off the protestantes prouing that the Pope can not be Peters successour because there is no succession into the office off an Apostell he aswereth not To that I alledged off Epaphroditus called an Apostel not in respect of the ministrie of the vvord but as sent vvith relief vnto Saint Paul he patcheth out an answer almost of as many coulors as he alledgeth autorities out off the Centuries that he was an Apostel in that sense that Paul and the rest off the Apostels were Which beside that yt is false they onely affirming that he was an Apostel is cleane contrary to that he alledgeth out off Caluin that it is taken there generally for any sent to preach and therefore it can not be taken in that signification off Apostels in which the 12 and Paul. yt is contrary also to that owt off Ambrose which saying that he was therefore called an Apostel because he was sent off Paul confirmeth in part that which I haue set downe that he was called an Apostle not in respect off any dignitie off ministery aboue others Ministers off the word but onely in that he was sent Finally contrary to that alledged owt of Theodoret which so calleth hym an Apostle that forthwith also he maketh him to be a Bishop When as if he be a Bishop he can not be such an Apostell as the 12. considering that they be twoo seuerall members off the ministers off the Gospell differing by the D. owne cōfession at the least in the place of exercise off their misterie the bishop hauing an especiall bonde to his Bishopricke and the Apostel preaching Where he thincketh need Where he saithe also that it confirmeth his side that he is called the Apostell off the Philippians and other the Apostels off the churches for that thereby it may appeare that one may be Apostel off a kingdome or off a prouince he dalieth with his reader For in that place I alledged out off the 2. Corinthes 8. the Apostels off the churches are not so called in respect off any ministery off the word but off the almes which they were sent with And beside that the church off the Philip. was nether prouince nor kingedome but a particular church Epaphroditus is not called their Apostel in that he was sent off Saint Paul vnto them but in that the Philip. sent him to Saint Paul as the wordes which followe immediatly after obserued off Maister Beza doo declare So that yf that place
and no Euangeliste But what then if they were for one a 100. they can not counteruaile much lesse beare downe the testimonie of the Apostle Howbeit not all the auncient writers are as he vntruly saith of that iudgemēt For not to speake of Ambrose which calleth Timot. a Deacon where he opposeth a Deacon to a bishop Ignatius an auncient writer saith that he was a Deacon and that where he deuiding the ministeries off the church into Bishopes and Deacons c. doth openly oppose a Deacon to a bishop Where all his testimonies are not able to aford one sentence wherein Timothè is so called a Bishop that he is opposed vnto an Euangelist Therfore althowghe thes places proue him nor an Euangelist yet they haue more to proue that he was no bishop that all those to proue him a bishop which are raked here together Albeit Ignatius missing the proper name assigneth him the true office off an Euangelist which was to be assistant to Saint Paul in his Apostelship Where he saith that all the new writers are off that minde that he was a bishop Maister Beza onely excepted I trust the Doctors faith in alledging autorities ys too well knowen to abuse the simplest any more with these visardes I onely had Calu. and Muscul at hand the reader may looke others yf he thinke good both which plainely say he was an Euangelist where they handle properly the seuerall ministries off the church and make a manifest difference betwene a bishop and an Euangelist And such is his dealing that he feareth not to bring euen from thence a peece of proofe where Calu. mouing the question whether the word Euangelist verified off Timoth. be taken in a generall sense for any that preacheth the word or for that proper office which S. Paul expresseth to the Ephes vppon two reasons concludeth that he speaketh off that office off an Euangelist Yet vppon that he saith Timothe vvas excellenter then common Pastors this trimme interpreter concludeth directly against Caluin that he had the proper office off a Bishop and that Caluin ment that he had a notable gift aboue the rest off the Pastors As though Caluin reasoned not off the degree off offices one aboue an other but off the degree of giftes in one and the same Yt is too great shame to striue with suche light of wordes Considering that he dothe there make Timothes office a middle degree betvveen Pastors and Apostels higher then Pastors lower then Apostles This man also which reprocheth me as one setting the fathers together by the eares without cawse where the disagreemēt is manifest and which saith symply that yt is great iniurie to learned men to accuse them off contrarietie with themselues goeth about to proue Beza directly contrary vnto him selff For where Beza sheweth that Saint Paul did not leue Tim. at Ephesus as their bishop which the D. in affirming that Beza is against him cōfesseth he busieth him self to proue him to haue contrary sentences For proof hereoff he alledgeth that all were bishops which S. Paul sent for from Ephesus to Miletum and therefore Timothe being one off those which by Bezaes iudgement was sent for must needes be a Bishop Albeit it he graunted which Beza saith that Tim. was sent for yet that they were all bishops wanted proof For all know that it is not vnwonted to call a whole companie gathered off diuers degrees by the title off that whereoff there are muste in the companie without speaking to euery one by their particular titles especially seing he speaketh indefinitely that the holy gost had appointed them and not all them Bishops Where Saint Luke saith that both the princes off the people Elders and Scribes and those of the race off the highe pristes were assembled Peter in speaking vnto them maketh mention onely off the Princes and Elders without naming the scribes and priestes which notwithstanding he spake vnto with the rest But I can hardly graunt that Timothe was then sent for to come with the rest off the Ministers vnto Miletum considering that there was as appeareth so small a space at the least betwene the time which Beza supposeth Timoth. to haue bene sent to Ephesus from S. Paul and this sending for the bishops vnto Miletum that Timo. taking the streight course vnto Ephesus was litle more then onely arriued when Saint Paul sent from Miletum Secondly for that S. Paul writeth vnto Timothe that he left Trophimus one off his companions in that iourney sicke at Miletum which had bene nedeles yf Timothe had bene with Paul as the bishops off Ephesus were vntill he parted from Miletum Thirdly for that S. Paul in that oration vnto the bishops saith that he knew that none off them should see his face any more which he would neuer haue saide off Tim. His other reason that he calleth him president a generall word agreing to any in preeminence is nothing worth That which he ioineth to backe yt with as added by Beza out off Cypri that the Bishop ruled the colledge off Seniors the place is in his confessions and not where he assigneth howbeit yt maketh nothing to the pourpose For althowgh the Bishops were presidentes in the Eldership in Cyprians time when that office was the highest in the churche yet yt followeth not therefore that the bishops were alwayes the first in the Apostels times when there were higher functions Onles the D. will say that the bishops toke the vpper hand off the Apostels and Prophetes when they came vnto their churches and ioyned them selues vnto their consultations And albeit yt hath appeared and shall appeare that the Answ hath not wun so much as a poore cottage yet as though he had taken great Babylon or Niniue he maketh his Triumphes which yf he had had any hould off him self at least he might haue differred vntill he had answered the reasons to the contrary For yf as he moste vntruly saith he had all the writers calling Timothe bishop yet yf the scripture stand for vs yt ys reason that he with all his writers should vaile their bonnet Nowe therefore although he say I forget my promis of prouing Timothe an Euangelist yet the reason I alledged that the scripture so calleth him will proue better memorie in this point then he can well aford To this reason he answereth first that the scripture doth not call him so but onely biddeth him doo the worcke of an Euang. which in deed is more against him For they are sometimes called by a title which not doing the worck belonging thereunto can not be properly so called but they which doo the worcke which the title pretendeth may alwaies properly be called by yt And the vsuallest argumentes in scripture to proue or improue a man to be such as he beareth countenance off are fetched from this place off effectes His second answer standeth off the interpetation off these wordes the vvorcke off an Euangelist Which being alledged
Euangelists more to these then to those Nowe therefore forsomuch as yt ys manifest by the subscription of S. Pauls epistels that he writing did the office of an Apostle it is also cleare that both S. Mathew and Iohn being Apostels in writing the storie off the Gospell did the same and that the committing off the Gospell to writing was not the proper difference off any speciall office but according to thoccasions offered and mouing of the holy spirit off God commen to other functions off that time And as the Pastors off our time which both preach and write differ not in ministerie from those which preach onely and are oftentimes more excellent pastors then they so the wâ—sting off Saint Iohn and Mathew being Apostels off Saint Lucke and Marck Euangelistes might paraduenture make them more excellent Apostels or Euangelistes then those which wrote not but to chaunge their ministerie it could not Last off all off this answer followeth thabsurditie before noted that one man at the same time should be first and second before and behinde himselfe That an Euangelist at one time may be a bishop at an other maketh litle for the D. considering that we shewe that Timothe was euen then at Ephesus an Euangelist when he supposeth hym to haue bene bishop Howbeit it is vnlike that they which were ordeined Euangelistes and set in higher degree aboue the Pastor were without their fault thrust downe vnto the order of Bishops Men nowe a daies peraduenture may chuse to an office off charge one whom vppon better triall as not altogether sufficient they may cause to rise out off his chaire and sit in a lower place but in the Apostels ordinatioÌ„ especially of Timo. in whom they were directed by the voice off God it could by no meanes comme to passe This being vntrue in the Euangelists cast down to thoffice off bishops ys yet more vntollerable in the Apostels For they are by this meanes not let but cast headlong downe from the highest staier in the ministerie vnto the lowest almost yea by the D. saying which maketh the Pastor and the Doctor all one euen vnto the lowest But it can not be that they which were appointed by the voice off Christe immediatly to the Apostelship can ether off theyr owne or any other autoritie in yearth be put from that ministerie And therefore our men doo substantially dispute against the Papistes which would haue Peter bishop of Rome for that being ordeined an Apostel he could not betake him vnto thoffice off a bishop which the Answ with diuers other groundes would to mainteine his phantasies gladly shake The reason pretended out off Zuing. for that they abode in one place yf it be his is vnsufficient For to omit that it is easy to shew that Iames immediatly after he was ordeined to the Apostelship at thascension off our Sauiour exercised his charge in one place namely Ierusalem during his whole life whereby should follow that he was neuer any Apostell and to let passe that Eusebius citeth out off Clement that all the Apostels remained by the space off xij yeares in Ierusalem after our Sauiour Christes ascension whereby they all should be bishops during that time to say nothing also off Saint Paule which teaching at Rome and there looking to end his life eueÌ„ from thence writeth him self an Apostle aÌ„d not a bishop I say to let all this passe which notwithstaÌ„ding casteth downe this opinioÌ„ the Ans must know that thabiding long in one place doth not make a bishop differ froÌ„ an Apostel but the necessitie and bond to abide in one place by reason of his particular function Which when it nether can be shewed off any Apostel and is as hath bene shewed directly contrary to his function yt can not be that the abode in one place should proue a chaunge off the Apostelship into the function off a bishop Whereby is also answered the last reason off the D. that Tim. was bishop becawse he retourning to Ephesus died there For yf that were graunted what reason is there that whereas by the biscours off the scriptures before alledged it appeareth Timothe tawght in diuers churches he should be saide bishop off Ephesus becawse that was the last church he instructed why not off the first or second as well as off the last it is all one as yf a man being a straunger in diuers places should be saide to be Cytisen of that were he laieth his bones Wherein the D. againe approcheth vnto the absurditie off the Papistes which against that the Protestantes alledge that Peter is saide off writers as well bishop off Alexandria and Antioche as off Rome answer that the differeÌ„ce is great because he died at Rome Nether helpeth it him any thing which he alledgeth in an other place out of Cal. that Tychicus was sent to supplie Timothies absence For beside that the Apostle doth not goe so far and whatsoeuer can be saide in that point is coniecturall Calu. wordes do not necessarily enforce a deputie considering that absence may after a sort be supplied by a successour And if beside the first ordination off Timoth. vnto the function off an Euangelist which is vnlimited we will consider the manner off his embassage towardes the Ephes there can nothing les be gathered then this that Timothe was off Saint Paul instituted bishop off Ephesus whereby he should need a deputy For in that he sent him desyring him to tary for him there he declareth that he was not sent to remaine alwaies but for a tyme But if the Answ take exception that I haue found out this newe translation to make the place serue for my turne fyrst I trust that those which haue still in the greek will easly graunt that the word will bear this sense then it hath some confirmacion of that which Saint Paul writeth off diligence to be vsed in his caling there vntill his coÌ„ming Which word vntill although not alwaies yet for the most part maketh an eÌ„d of that whereunto it is applied Last off all it appeareth by Augustin which vseth this translation that yt was off auncient tyme receiued which testimonie off antiquitie cast in when the skoles are euen on both sides may cary it away Thus I leaue it to the Iudgement off the indifferent reader what truth it hath that the Answ affirmeth of Timothes being bishop at Ephesus I returne back to the generall treatise off the Euangelist Where I shew that if there vvere Euangelistes yet the bishops could not ordein theÌ„ being their inferiors he answereth that yt can not be proued that an Euangelist is of higher degree theÌ„ a bishop Yf O. Paules autoritie be not sufficient which setting the ministries off the word so precisely in order preferreth the Euangelist and Prophet vnto the Pastor or bishop nor the Iudgement off writers whereoff although some make an Euangelist next in honor vnto an Apostle some the Prophet yet both sortes prefer the
may better appeare for that in other places where S. Paul deuideth the whole mynistrie of the churche the ministrie off the word which he vttered here by the word off Prophecie he there attributeth not vnto Prophetes but vnto Bishops And when as the prophecie which the D. phansieth is a simple Ministrie off the church that Prophecie mencioned there being compounded muste needes be diuers Likewise that a Prophet to the Corin. is taken generally for any which instructeth with any word off exhortation yt is apparant both by that S. Paul attributeth prophecying to all which haue any gift off teaching and in that he doth so often oppose it to the fruteles speaking in a straunge toung amongest the assembly of the faithfull His testimonies out off writers remaine wherein amongest the auncient he hath onely a counterfeit sentence off Ambrose as I haue before declared which as yt ys full of confusion and disorder so yt maketh nothing for the D. for if Apostels be bishops and Euangelistes and Euangelistes be Deacons c. what maketh that to proue that there are beside the bishops and Deacons seuerall functions of Apostels and Euangelistes which is the question But how this fable is beaten down by all auncient antiquitie that may be a sufficient argument that the auncient writers in great consent speake off the whole ministrie off the church as deuided into thes three orders Bishops Elders and Deacons After that other ministries entred as doorkepers subdeacons c. yet there were none but such lightheaded spirits as I haue before spoken off that durst peint out any their mynysteries with the names off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes For the new writers that the D. if his forhead be not of yron may learn to blush I will towch their Iudgment onely which he hath alledged for him self Maister Caluin diuiding the mynistrie off the word into Apostels Prophetes Euangelistes Pastors and Doctors affirmeth that the tvvo last onely that is to say Pastors and Doctors are ordinary Bucer likewise deuiding them into perpetuall and for a tyme affyrmeth that these perteine vnto thestate off the former church and correcteth the D. Ambrose for appliyng them to his times by the true Ambroses sentence to the contrary in the fyrst of his Offic. Peter Martyr vsing the same diuision sheweth that the function off Apost and Prophets are not in vse and that the ministrye of Prophets is not onely expyred in respect of telling thinges to come but also for the manner off interpreting the scripture That he speaketh not the same off the Euangelist was for that the Apostle maketh no mention off him in that place Musculus deuideth the mynisteries off the vvord into those vvhich serued for the beginning off the gospell as Apost Euang. Proph. and those vvhich cōtinue for euer as Pastors Doctors Elders Bishops Bullinger saith the office off Apostleship Prophetship and Euangelistship were instituted off the Lord for a tyme and that thes many ages euen synce the foundacion off the kingedome off Christ both Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes are ceassed into vvhose place are come bishops Pastors Doctors and Elders Last off all the confession off the churches hauing spoken off all mynisteries off the word mencioned off the Apostel concludeth that off all those now it is lawfull to esteeme mynistries off the churche Bishops Elders Pastors and Doctors Thes autors affirming that thes mynistries be extraordinary that they were for a time that other are come into their places the reader may see how the D. dealeth with him Let yt now be noted how he hath haled thes sentences taken from them Out off Maister Caluin he alledgeth that God hath stirred vp Apostels or Euangelistes synce the time of the primitiue churche and hath doone so at this tyme. Within a lyne after he addeth yet I call that extraordinary because in churchs vvell dressed it hath no place Of the like sort yt ys that he alledgeth owt off my booke whereas vpon Maister Caluin so of my wordes which affirme that God hath raised vp sometimes Euangelistes immediatly by his spirit vvithout any calling off men he woulde conclude that the office is ordinary and perpetuall then which bouldnes what can be greater Out of Bucer he alledgeth that there be now Euāgelists Where if his maner of speach that there are found Euangelists could not yet that which he addeth that God doth it by merueilous meanes ought to haue kept him from that allegacion except he thinck that a miraculous calling be perpetuall and ordinary Out of the Confess is brought that thes offices off Apostles c. are mynistries off the new Testament els should they haue great iniury seing they were both in tyme and dignitie first but who the D. set a part would euer conclude therof that they are perpetuall ministeries especially considering it addeth immediatly in plaine wordes that the Apostles are ceased and Pastors come into their places which could not be yf it had any such meaning as the D. phansieth Where it saith that there are yet Prophetes yf that were not which I alledged out of it towhing the shutting owt of those three ministeries from them which are now in vse yet the manner off speaking there are yet found the same with that of Bucer before alledged declareth that they ment therby an extraordinary calling For so we vse to speak of thinges rare and not in commen vse Last off all where yt is alledged owt off Bullinger that the wordes mentioned to the Ephe. are confounded yt doth not make for him but is answer both against the most places brought to proue Timothe a bishop and against those which he hath cited in the 3. and 4. Diuision off this chap. for if those ministries being separate one from an other their names notwithstanding be confounded yt muste follow that not euery one which is called an Apostle or bishop c. hath that function which is by some proprietie seuered from other and which the Apostle mēt to the Eph. for where one man being an Apostle is sometimes called a Prophet Bishop Doctor Elder and Deacon yf he will say that because he is called by thes titles he did therefore all those functions proper vnto those mynistries beside thabsurdities before shewed the vntruth doth manifestly appeare in the office off disposing off the churches money Whereoff the Apostles discharging them selues ceassed not therefore sometime to be called by the same name off Deacons And to vse those authorities which he hath brought Ierom calleth I say the Prophet both Euangelist and Apostel Yet I think the D. doth not esteme Ierom to haue had so litle iudgement as to think that he was ether off them in that signification they are taken of Saint Paul. likewise where he hath cited out off Caluin that Timothe was a Pastor when Caluin calleth him also an excellent Doctor and maketh that a seuerall function from the Pastor yt is cleare that he spake not off
not onely in that S Paul preached somewhere yeares other where moneths in some places weeks in other not all but in that by certein vocation S. Peter c. were more bound to the places where the Iewes then where the Gentils were and Saint Paul and Barnabas had in their generall charge a more streight bond to preach vnto the Gentils then to the Iewes And albeit the Euangelistes he imagineth are let so lose that they may preach through the realm yet euen in that scope he leueth them they haue a neerer knot and further dutie off preaching in places of their natiuitie abode of freinds aÌ„d kinsfolk Therfore if the residence off a Pastor be no more then the D. plainly setteth downe that he ought to doo it especially in that place and more in that then in others the difference betwene a Pastor and them towching the bond to a place graunted also off the Answ is cleane taken away Burhe will not answer the former reason because it cometh owt off place Where forsomuch as preaching in other places is alledged to be one off the cheif cawses off non residence all men see that this arrow was shot at the heart off his cause And yf yt had no place here why did not he cary yt to the proper place how cometh it to passe that he answereth yt not els where But how vaine this excuse is it appeareth seing eueÌ„ in this diuision to proue that the Pastors may preach in other places then in their charges which is that he refuseth to speake off as impertinent he alledgeth the example of the Apostels and Euangelists and so continueth almost a whole side off repetitions Likewise to that alledged that Timothe and Tite cam not from Ephesus and Crete off their ovvne heades but called off the Apostle a cheiff gouernour off the church vvhich can be no vvarrant to those vvhich leue their charges vvithout any such calling he answereth not That which is saide off the D. that S Paul sent for Timothe for his owne priuate busines is vntrue nether hath any grownd off the word And if he thinck that those wordes help him that Timothe should bring Marck as one profitable to serue him they rather confute him for yt is absurd to imagin that S. Paul would take twoo such notable lightes from the seruice off the church to serue his priuate busines and to doo that which mâ—ght be doon by others which had no publike charge in the church especially considering that he had Luke with him before Therfore that seruice must be expounded of the seruice off the gospell whereunto he would employ them Whereas I alledged for residence against those which leauing their proper charges wander in other places that they should not attempt any thing in the ministerie vvithout calling the Ans saith a man is not so called to one place that he is restrained from doing good in other which is not the question For it is not denied but he may doo good by praier counseill and writing After be saith that he constantly belieueth that in the moe places he laboureth the more his seruice is accepted vnto God and p. 241. that he is a meÌ„ber and minister off the whole church generally and pag. 224. wheresoeuer the preacher may doo most good thyther he is called of God. Wherein beside the miracle off making Apostles he bringeth in other wonders which the Lord him selff neuer wrought which is to chaunge a Pastor into an Apostle And beside that it is directly against the order off the scripture which calleth them bishops off such and such a particular church and not off the whole church against the Canons off the ould Councels which forbad the bishops to goe beyond their owne boundes and assigneth that cause off appointing Patriarchs yt is against that him self hath set downe where putting differeÌ„ce betwene pastors bishops aÌ„d other preachers he saith that Pastors and bishops haue their cures limited Whereuppon foloweth that if they goe to other places they both passe their limits and destroy the difference assigned off the Answ between them and other licenced preachers Yea if he be minister off the whole church he hath a necessary calling to preach in as many places as he can possibly as he which otherwise shal be gilty off their bloud ouer whom hauing a mynistry he hath doone no duty But forasmuch as the Pastor hath his calling vnto one certein place onely yt must needes be that he goyng to other churches off his owne head goeth withowt calling Onles he will here flie vnto secret persuasions off the spirit off God without the voice off the church which is mere Anabaptisticall And where he saith that God calleth him to that place where he may doo moste good first he doth presumpteously that taketh vpon him to determin where he may doo moste good and that which controlment off the churches iudgement which placing hym in a certein church thereby gyueth her sentence that he might doo moste good there Then I answer that although he could know where he might doo most good yet that is no sufficient calling off god For the lord calleth sometime his ministers vnto places where they gaine least and sendeth none to those where after preaching would folow repentance as appeareth by that our Sauiour Christ speaketh off Corazim and Bethsaida compared with Tyre and Sydon off Capernaum compared with Sodom and by that the Lord saith to Ezechiel off the Iewes compared with the Gentils And our Sau. Christ which knew where he might do moste good and best fill his hand off the Lordes corne folowing the calling off God his father euen in the land off Iury where his charge was preached more in certein stoncharted townes then in those which were better affectioned to his doctrine Which may appeare both by Ierusalem and the exaÌ„ples before recited and especially in Capernaum In which for that he preached so often and wrought so many miracles yt is in an other place called his owne cyty Now if our Sau. Christ preached no where but by the calling off God his father and yet few in places more aboundantly where he knew he should haue a thinner haruest yt foloweth that yt ys both vntrue which the Answ saith that God calleth a man to preach where he may doo most good and true that the lawfull voyce of the church being the same to the Mynisters now which the holy spirit off God was in those extraordinary callinges owght to goe before euery one in his mynistry not onely for direction off hym to preach but also for the place where Whereuppon foloweth that he which being placed in one church leapeth into an other without an other calling off the church runneth or euer he be sent So that althowgh the Pastor had neuer so harty a desyre to profyt in his wandring from place to place yet hauing no calling there is no obedience and therefore if in casting his net
I will ad others Wheras a Bishop may be ordeined by two or three other Bishops tharchbishop must be ordeined by all the Bishops off the prouince ether present or at the least consenting Now seing the ordination is off the forme off their ministerie and thes formall causes be diuers yt followeth that thes offices must needes be diuers And that the substantiall and essentiall forme of a Bishop is differente from that off tharchbishop yt is plaine also by that they are members off one diuision and therfore off necessitie differ in the substantiall forme as a man differeth from a brute beast not in circumstance but in that he is off an other nature And when the D. graunteth the effectes and worckes off tharchbishop to be diuers from those off the Bishop the one ruling thother obeing and that by oth gyuen and taken it seemeth very straunge that he should deny that it is a new and diuers office from those appointed in the scripture Furthermore when as the subiectes off the Bishop and Archbishop be diuers where about they be occupied the one hauing one church or to speake according to his sense one Diocese thother a whole prouince still it must fall owt that they are diuers offices Last off all forasmuch as offices in the scripture are perpetuall and thoffice off an Archbishop may be taken away by men by his owne confession yt must follow that they be diuers offices And if he looke when I should conclude a new minisâ—â—â—e beside that yt is all new which is straunge and straunge which is not coÌ„maunded by the word of God yt comming as shall appeare some hundreth yeares after the Apostles times whose onely autoritie is able to make the grey heares and antiquitie of a thing be reuereÌ„ced it followeth that this word new if he nourish any misterie in it is also truly verified of the ministerie of tharchbishop Timothe and Tite shall neuer be proued to haue had any such autoritie ouer the rest and if they had yet yt falleth not on tharchbishops side seing they were no Bishops but Euangelistes as hath appeared When the church appointed one Bishop to rule ouer all Ministers Elders and Deacons in the same church yt did appoint a new ministerie and all thes reasons almost before browght against the newnes off tharchbishops functions returne vpon the head of that institution And if there be any hould in the Ans word he hath otherwhere affirmed that thoffice off a Bishop is superior vnto the office off a Pastor yf so it is not the same But why dare not the D. aswell confesse that the church may erect a new mynisterie seing he affirmeth flatly as much in effect for to proue an Archbishop he alledgeth that beside those in the scripture the church may appoint both names and offices now I would gladly know first whether when the church appointeth an office that was neuer before a new office or no and then whether a new office be a new mynysterye And yff to erect vpp an office which was neuer be to erect a new office and a new office be a new mynysterie it must follow that the churche in erecting an other office then is set forth in scripture erecteth a new ministerie The Ans is afraied to confesse a new ministerie and not afraied to confesse a new office off which superstition I would gladly vnderstand some reason Now where he would haue the care off our Sauiour ouer his church in time off the gospel to consist in that he hath set downe the doctrine more plainly in all poinctes then vnder the law this being a doctrine off saluacion vnder the law that there should be ministers in the church yt followeth by his owne saying that he hath set yt downe more plainly in all pointes now then vnder the law Therfore also this point how many orders and degrees off ministerie owght to be considering that that was precisely defined in the law is more narrowly bounded in the gospel Thus he defending more in deed then in wordes he dare set downe is almost at continuall battaile with himself and hath scarce at any tyme his proofes and propositions of one measure But that I follow not the chase off wordes leauing his meaning where 〈◊〉 any light footing of it to be found that which he would say and wherwith his pourpose is vpholden can not stand that albeit our Sauiour hath tawght the doctrine more plainly now then vnder the lawe yet it followeth not that he hath performed that in the gouernement off the church If this be his meaning as I saied there is great iniurie doon vnto the church great dishonor vnto our Sauiour Christ For he hauing at all tymes doon the office not onely off a Doctor in teaching but also off a king in prescribing the manner and forme off gouernement vnto yt howmuch soeuer he is saied to haue doon lesse in appointing the outward gouernement off his church now then vnder the law so muche is both he robbed off that part off his kingly office which God his heauenly Father annointed hym vnto and the church spoiled of the fruict which should come vnto her therby Yt ys therfore a most certein doctrine that in all thinges perteining to the kingdom of heauen whether in matter off doctrine or gouernment the Lord hath in as great specialtie marcked them owt as ether before or vnder the law In cyuill matters and thinges perteining to this present life he hath I graunt vsed a greater particularytie with them then amongest vs framing lawes according to the qualitie of that people and coontrey wherin the leauing of vs at greater libertie ys so far from prouing the like libertie in thinges perteining to the kingdom off heauen that they rather proue a streighter bond For euen as when the Lord would haue his fauour more appeare by temporall blessinges off this life towardes the people vnder the law then towardes vs he gaue also polityke lawes most exactly wherby they might both most easely come into and most stedfastly remaine in possessyon off those earthly benfites euen so at this tyme wherin he would not haue his fauour so much esteemed by those owtward commodities is required that as his care in prescribing lawes for that pourpose hath somewhat fallen in leauing them to mennes coÌ„sultations which may be deceiued so his care for conduit and gouernement of the life to come should if it were possible rise in leauing lesse to the order off men then in times past And the D. should ether haue cut off quite that part off the Kingly office off Christ which consisteth in owtward gouernement off his church or els haue let yt had the full course Now when he graunteth that beside the doctrine off saluacion he entred into the description off outward gouernement off the church saying beside the doctrine he ordeined there should be not onely fit ministers to publish it but officers to gouerne the people in godlines as if in beginning
or not at the churches vvill Moreouer if he say that it is necessarie ād commaunded a◠some tyme and not at others vvhat a miserable case is the churche in that hath no certein addresse owt of the word vvhen that necessitie and commaundement beginneth and when it endeth vvhen this office is in season vvhen owt of season Lastly forasmuch as S. Paul speaketh of offices thē in the chuch not of those vvhich came after as the Ans him self is forced to confesse the Archbishops office must needes haue bene in the Apostles tyme Which if it be true those times being as the Answ hath borne vs in hand so vnlike ours the persons in the church then off so different dispositions from those now the place also the gospell being thē in the East partes where now it is in the West it must needes follow that this monely office off the archbishop which ebbeth and floweth being fit for the Apostles times is by all likelihood vnfit for ours His distinction vnto the second proposition is that an Archbishop in respect off the ministerie off the word and Sacramētes is necessarie alwaies but not in respect of policie and gouernemēt Which is asmuch to say as an archbishop vvhen he is an archbishop is alwaies necessarie for the church For when he hath not the owtward gouernement then by yowr owne rule he is no archbishop then which speach what can be more absurd And of this answer followeth that there is a time vvhen the Pastors haue nothing to doo vvith the externall policie and gouernment off the church but onely to administer the word and Sacramentes and then the church shal be an heape and not a bodie a confused multitude not an orderly societie Yet in the next section he gyueth the gouernement off the church and order vnto the bishops and archbishops and will haue them part the stake off the Apostles autoritie vvhich they had in the church And as this answer is absurd so yt ys contrarie to that he hath set downe in his former booke that not onely the office off the Archbishop is necessarie but most necessarie I saied before that the Apostle speaketh to the Ephes off mynisteries vvhich haue to doo vvith preaching the vvord but neuer added as yow in yowr Doctors booke and here and not those which haue to doo with order and discipline Therfore I had nothing forgotten my self if be would haue vnderstanded that which is plaine to all the world for thes two may well stand together the Apostle spake there onely off functions conuersant in the vvord and the Lord spake of those functiōs vvhich Preach the vvord and administer the gouernement for the word onely doth not seclude gouernemēt from those ministries but shutreth owt all ministeries not preaching as that off the Elder and Deacon And yt is one thing to say the Lord spake there onely off preaching mynisteries an other to say he spake there of ministries onely preaching which me thincketh yow could not be ignorāt of Therfore Saint Paul reckening vp the ministeries there which haue together with the preaching of the word the administration off gouernement and making no mention off the Archbishop supposed to haue both yt followeth that yow are yet behinde with yowr answer I haue not confuted my shadow but yowr fond phantasie For if S. Paul speake in that place of those that haue the ministerie off the word and Sacramentes onely and not off those which haue to doo with the order of discipline yt followeth that Apostles haue nothing to doo with order and discipline forsomuch as they are amongest those which S. Paul there speaketh of If this cogitacion neuer entred into yowr head how cometh it to passe that yt ys found in yowr papers Lastly yow say the administration off discipline and gouernement in the Apostles is fallen vpon the Archbishops and bishops the ouerthrow off my whole assertion Yf a man will belieue yow speaking he may otherwise here is nothing but I saied yt And surely yt must be a very simple hould that is cast downe with this paper shot of bare affirmatiō but if yow will weigh a litle what yow say yow shall see that if there be any bullet at al in this yowr saying yt is charged wholy vppon yowr self For before yow haue saied once or twise that the office and autoritie off an Archbishop was in the Apostles tymes Which if yt be true how doth the Archbishop receiue his auauritie off order and gouernement by their death for hauing yt before he cannot receiue yt by their departure Ether therfore this is vntrue that the archbishop exerciseth the same autoritie which the Apostles or that which yow saied before that the office off the Archbishop was in the Apostles time or els this third is true that he hauing in the Apostles time autoritie which he hath now by their death obteined beside their former autoritie that which the Apostle had also Which how neere it pricketh at the papacye I leaue to euery one to consider But yf the Archbishop will succede vnto the administration off order and gouernement off the Apostels why sheweth he not his euidence why bringeth he not forth his recordes of bequest off resignation that it may appeare he is not entred as a trespasser In that sense which I haue shewed in an other place I graunt it true which Ierome saith that all bishops succede vnto the Apostles but shew me who speaketh any thing off the succession off the archbishop vnto them Nay verily that is flat against the archbishops autoritie For if euery bishop haue that autoritie in his church which the Apostles had in all the world it followeth that there nether needeth nether can be any archbishop to receiue any theroff And that if any archbishop chalenge a greater autoritie then is in any one bishop he pulleth to him self greater autoritie in his prouince then euer the Apostles had in the world And by the same reason that they be Lordes and superiours ouer bishops they must be lordes and superiours in their prouince ouer the Apostles them selues if they were aliue Considering they rule ouer those which in their dioceses haue the same autoritie that the Apostles had This I speake not that I thinck the Bishops had not this autoritie from the very birth and foundacion off the function as towching the gouernement off their churches or that there came any autoritie vnto them by the Apostles death which they had not in their tymes but that yt may be vnderstanded that if there were any such succession vnto the Apostles gouernement as the D. phansieth the bishops are the right beyres and that not certein other some shut forth but euery one as Ierome saith Although if tharchbishop should haue an Apostolicall autoritie in gouerning his prouince it hath appeared and more shall God willing that the Apostles gouernement was far from that principalitie and rule one ouer an other which tharchbishops chalēge ouer
M. Knox which had put them to flight should take heede that he suffred them not to come in againe althovvgh it pretend to haue great force to kepe vnitie vnder vvhich pretence it deceiued the auncient Fathers Thus yt appeareth what Bezaes iudgement is both off thes names and offices Now I retourne to the places alledged off the D. Where he is saied to affirme that archbishops c. are called in scriptures by one commen name off Pastors and Bishops his wordes can not be referred vnto the name or office of Archbishop For considering there is no mention off them in scripture the scripture can not call them Pastors and Bishops especially seing he sheweth how they are Pastors in respect off administration off the word and Sacramentes not in that they rule ouer Bishops in which regard onely it is confessed that they were called Archbishops c. Where he affirmeth him to call the names holy the names which he calleth holy are the names of Apostles and bishops not of archbishops c. which may appeare by that following and therfore they glory off the succession off the Apostles and true Bishops For seing they conuey them selues vnto the succession off the Apostles and Bishops vnder the cloke off names what names are so fiâ— to disguise them that they might be so taken as those And where he saith he reckeneth vp archdeacons Canons Seniors Deanes subdeacons clearkes amongest degrees taken owt off the word off God and from the Primitiue church fyrst he hath not they were taken but they seeme to haue taken c. Then if the auncient church be taken for that almost 400. yeares after Christ as yt may be compared with that â—00 yeares after Christ we deny not but thes names were in the Primitiue church Moreouer the Ans to help the Dean hath falsified Beza translating for Deacon Deane which haue no more kindred then a mat and a mattock Last off all if he could haue brought this testimonie owt off Beza for allowance off names yet he should haue bene afraied to haue vsed this aduantage seing that place ministreth moe weapons to beate then to defend him For there he condemneth flatly as a rable and filthy assemble of monsters vnheard off in the auncient church the degrees of Suffraganes Officials Proctors Vicares Chapleines c none off which I suppose the D. may well spare in vpholding that estate which he phansieth so good I appele not vnto the Apostles times onely but vnto the doctrine and order established where we are sure there is light withowt darcknes truth withowt daunger off errors And if we leauing thapostles should take a patron off gouernement off men which may be deceiued yt owght rather to be drawen from the Apostles times then from those 500. yeares after those being so much purer as they were neerer the incomparable brightnes of the gospell which shyned then and further from those mistie times off Antichrist wherwith after the whole earth was ouercast For if this man off sin being in the eg in thappostles time receyned by litle and litle continuall increase vntill he came to his full growght I see not why there was not as great oddes betwene the purenes off the church in thapostles time and that 500. yeares after as betwene this and that 1000. yeare after the Apostels And if there were no remedie against the corruptions off those purest times but in taking heed to the light which the Lord had set vp in the doctrine and gouernement off thapostles how muche more for remedie against such palpable darcknes as couered the face off the earth in our times owght we to haue resorted vnto that perfect and vnmedled light not vnto them whose both heauens vvere darker and sight dimmer and which beside greater night within them selues by reason off their infirmitie had lesse day withowt by reason of the glowmie times To that alledged and confirmed that thes dignities off Metrapolitanes archbishops c. were as the handes that pulled the feet vvhich brovvght the shoulders that lifted vp the Pope into his seat vvhich othervvise he could neuer haue atteined vnto the Ans saith onely that sectes and heresies gaue strenght vnto Antichrist which is nothing to pourpose as thowgh both thes coulde not stand well together Where he saith the writers and Councells off 500. yeares laboured to kepe owt Antichrist and therfore thinges taken from them can not iustly be suspected I merueill he vnderstandeth not first that diuers off that auncientie he speaketh off and off the cheifest of them knew not what Antichrist was but imagined fnodly of him as of one singular person and that he should starte vp soudenly c. that Elias should come to destroie him that he should be borne of the Iewes that he should raigne in Ierusalem and diuers other suche fables Secondly that he remembreth not the ignorance off men to be such that they often times make him a bridge against whom they thinke to stop the passage Thirdly that being oftentimes ouermastred off their affections with hinderance off the truthe they giue somewhat to them Further that errors and heresies as he saithe strengthening Antechriste he coulde forgette the manifolde errors which are to be founde in the fathers of the time he prescribeth Laste off all if he coulde be ignorante off thes thinges yet examples off our daies might haue tawght him that euen now there be which knowing Antichriste and detesting him cease not to mainteine thinges wherby that kingdome partly standeth Where he saith no man of modesty and learning will condemne orders of that time withowte manifeste proofe especially in gouernement I would gladly knowe of him why he should add especially in gouernement what reason can he shewe why we shoulde not call their gouernement to as narrow a searche and as streight a trial as their doctrine When as yt can not be but where the Doctrine is attainted the infection theroff muste nedes come vnto the discipline especially when the Mynisters which sitte at the sierne off gouernement be seased with that euill And the discipline of the churche being the wall wherwith the doctrine ys kept safe as in a citie the wall is that which feeleth the firste assaulte and is battered before the citie can lie open to the violence off the artillery so in the siege off the churche by spirituall ennemies the discipline and gouernement is that wherinto the firste breache is made So that hauinge good cawse to holde for suspecte whatsoeuer either in doctrine or in gouernement those times lefte vnto vs not confirmed by substanciall proofes owte of the worde we haue yet better cawse to mistruste their gouernement as that which hauing abidden the greatest brunte hathe more neede off reparacions This appeareth in the firste Councell of Nice where the moste off errors decreed vppon were in the discipline and not so much in the doctrine beside the vngodly coustome which may appeare to haue occupied almost all the churches towching
much a minister bestowethe in a vocation which is not his so muche he leaueth his owne and therby manifest that in altering the wordes I kepte the sense And so yt still fallethowte that my falsifying which the Answ penne doothe so willingly runne vpon is nether with any aduantage to my cause nor disaduantage vnto his The two nexte sections I let passe as hauing no matter off answer What attendance the prelatship off the Garter requireth and what absence from a Bishops charge being a thinge in the knowledge off all I leaue whether he hathe manifestly peruerted the wordes off the Admonition which here he denieth the bookes off bothe sydes are vvitnes His slaunders first we take a waie the princes authoritie ouer ecclesiasticall persons then we woulde giue to vnderstande that he maketh yt in her maiestyes power to minister the worde and Sacramentes still confirme his shameles impudencie of the one there is no syllable that can be pulled that waies The wordes of which he would vvreste the other be yt is not lavvfull to take those vvhich god hathe appointed to the mynistry to applie to other vses there mentioned Which because yt falleth into the question off residence before handled and into that bearing cyuill office by the Ecclesiasticall person herafter God willing to be disputed the resolution ys to be taken from those places Where in the laste dyuision he calleth vppon my answer to the tytles off Lordes grace c. beside that he hathe nothing but bare sayinges withowte shewinge forthe any matter he hathe answer Thus after large promises off shewing the greate antiquitie off thes names that they were not onely in the Councell off Nice but are manifestly to be founde in all stories and writers before the councell off Nice after highe wordes againste those which denie the pretended antiquitie after rifling and ruffling vp euerie darcke corner where thes greate and glorious names might be hidden after hell yt self hath bene moued and sommoned to witnes of this antiquitie yt is manifest that thes names nor no one of them hathe hetherto bene shewed in any one Councell writer or storie before the Councell of Nice and then onely the name Metropolitane which by the Answ owne account was abowt the yeare 330. yt ys manifest also that the names Archbishop archdeacon Primate c. be not shewed owte off any ether Councell storie c. before Epiphanius time vvhich vvas aboute the yeare 380. and so manifeste that thes names being not founde in moste aunciente monumentes could not haue their allowance what approbacion they haue had sythens they came into the church I leaue yt to be estemed partly off that which hathe bene and partly off that which shall be God willing alledged â–ª being bent as well against the office as name off archbishop Which I therfore forbeare to set downe here leste I shoulde be compelled to repeate them againe Caput 3 Diuis 1. THat the reader maie haue clearer light to iudge of our writinges on both sydes in the rest off this controuersie and that we may be better furnished of weapons againste this greate leuie off pretended autorities two questions seeme necessarie to be decided before we come vnto them The one whether the worde off God hathe ordeined that in euery seuerall congreation there shoulde be a bishop which the Answ dothe flatly denie and further saith yt appeareth owte off certeine ecclesiasticall writers and the exampels off Timothe and Titus that the Apostels appointed bishops onely in principal townes and cities The other is whether there were allowed in one citie 2. or moe bishops which likewise he flatly denieth can be shewed to haue bene from Christâ—â— time and that the whole practise off the prymitiue churche is againste yt Yf thes thinges be shewed to haue bene ordeined off the Apostels yt muste folowe that this institution off God banished by Satan owght to be called home an that all autoritie off men and coustome exalted againste this must yealde theÌ„ selues prisoners Likewise if these be shewed the trwthe of expositioÌ„ of the testimonies of the moste aunciente writers shall better appeare vvherby we haue shute the bishoplike autoritie in the circuite aÌ„d roundell of one church which the Ans would haue extended vnto a realme or diocese And so shall come to pas that they which hauing all their senses possessed of the coustome of thes later and corrupter times when they reade or heare off a bishop in the scripture or in the moste auncieÌ„te writers conceiue forthwith a bishop of the same mould that ours be shall a greate deale easelier correcte their error For if a bishop in the Apostels time and off their institution was the bishop off one churche onelie by all likelihood those times which folowed nexte after them kepte them neerest vnto that image whervpon will fall owte that this vsurped autoritie of bishops ouer their fellow ministers did by litle and litle encrease according to the measure of time further from that wherin thapostels liued and nearer vnto that wherin Antichrist was fully setled which thinges although they haue light enough in them selues yet to cleare this matter better there shall be God willing set downe certein testimonies of the most auncient times wherby as by certein traces the truth off thes thinges may be easelier found owt The first that euery particular church should haue her bishhop is manifest by Paul to Timothe For seing the description of a bishop which he gyueth doth agree vnto the minister of euery congregacion and nothing there required in the one which is not in the other it followeth that the minister off euery congregacion is the bishop theroff For the description agreing with euery of them the thinges described must likewise Secondly onles he doo by this description off the bishop set forth the nature off euery minister of the word in his congregation in describing the offices off the churche he hath left owt the principalest membres and was more carefull in describing the Deacons ministerie not occupied in the vvord then the preaching ministeries but that is absurd yt must follow that he vnderstood them by the name off bishop Furthermore S. Paules bishop was appointed to the same place wherunto his Deacons but his Deacons were assigned to a particular congregation as appeareth both by the vse of the scriptures aÌ„d also by that after this corruption entred that euery church had not her bishop yet it had her Deacons as is to be seen by that alledged of the Deacons off the churches off Mariotes S. Paul also there assigning the charge and care of the bishop ouer the church of God must ether gyue him charge ouer the whole bodie of the catholike church or ouer one particular congregation or of the faithfull companie of one howse but he extendeth not his charge ouer all the Catholike church for that were to make a Pope not a bishop nor restraineth him to the faithfull of one
howshoulde considering that he opposeth the gouernement off his howse to the gouernement of the church yt followeth therfore that he appointeth hym to one particular church That by this word church must be vnderstanded one of thes three significacions yt standeth vpon this grownd that in none off S. Paules other Epistles or S. Lukes writinges that word church is euer vsed otherwise and neuer signifieth the church ether off Prouince or Dioces For when the Apostles vtter the companie off belieuers in such a circuit they alwaies speake in the plurall nombre and call them the churches of such and such a place And if it can be shewed that this word is taken in them for the faithful in a whole prouince or dioces I will giue ouer the hould of this argument If as I perswade my self that can not be doon then the church assigned vnto S. Paules bishop is a particular congregacion Moreouer S. Paul writing to Tite to appoint Elders throwgh euery towne which were vnblamable addeth because a bishop must be vnblamable Wherupon ether euery towne must haue a bishop or his reason is not well knit For he should both giue his rule off one thing and his reason off an other and it should come to passe that those churches vvhich haue no bishops might lawfully haue slaunderous and spotted bishops seing his onely reason why elders of euery towne owght to be withowt reproche is because a bishop must be so Againe vvhere it is saide that Paule and Barnabas apointed by voice elders in euery churche ether beside the auncientes off the churche the Bishop was ordeined or els the famous cities of Antioche I conium and Listra in the number of those churches there mencioned receiued no bishop But the Ans him selfe affirmeth that the Apostels ordeined bishops in the principall cities and townes therfore vnder thes wordes ▪ they ordeined elders by voice in euery churche ys vnderstanded that they ordeined bishops in euery churche For S. Luke vsing the same wordes to set for the the ministerie off all other churches wherwith he settethe forthe the ministerie off those famous cities vnlesse he will denie there were Bishops there he muste off necessitie graunt that the other churches had their bishops aswell as they Laste off all vnles yt be the institution off God that euery particular congregacion shoulde haue her bishop in that largies and bountifull liberalitie of ecclesiasticall ministers which S. Paule shewethe our Sauiour Christe bestowed vppon his churche after he was ascended nothing falleth to the lot of the partilar churches But yt ys horrible iniurie vnto the liberalitie off Christe so to shutte his hande which he opened so wide therfore it muste needes be that our Sauiour Christe gaue euerie churche her Bishop as for the apostles Euāgelistes and Prophetes beside that their ministerie was not streightned vnto particuler churchs they are as before hathe bene shewed ceassed There remaine therfore of the ministeries there reckened the Pastor and Doctor wherof whether the bishop be the same with the Pastor as some thinck or whether he conteine both Pastor and Doctor as other some esteme it ys manifest that ether euery particular churche must haue a bishop ▪ or els none of those ministeries there recited For if it be saied that taking a bishop for the same vvith a Pastor the particular congregations hauing the Doctor may haue one off them althowgh they haue no bishop it is easy to answere that if the Pastor most necessarie and vvhom the churche can worst spare doo not belong the Doctor can les be thowght to apperteine to a particular church And thus far owt of the scripturs for proofe of a bishop in euery particular church yt followeth to shew the traces of this institution in the primitiue church vvhich succeded next vnto the Apostels The same the D. supposeth the true Ignatius writeth thus Euery church should haue her altar and euery churche her bishop And lest peraduenture the D. should interprete euery church euery dioces or prouince beside that I haue shewed that signification of churche was vnknowen vnto those times the autors meaning is cleare to the contrary when he saithe euery church should haue her communion table which he calleth vnproperly an altar Onles therfore the D. will say that his meaning is there should be but one cōmunion table in a whole dioces or prouince this hole is stopped vp against him And if as he would make vs belieue this was Iohn thapostles scholer then amongest the testimonies of men this may worthely beare the bell Yf not as I for my part thinck yet the later he is the longer is proued this order of hauing a bishop in euery particular congregation seing he sheweth what the face off the church was in those times when he liued Epiphanius prouing a bishop and preaching Elder to differ which cometh after to be examined saith vvhere not as the Pope and the Answ in what great cytie soeuer there vvas found any vvorthy to be bishop there a bishop vvas appointed yea and vvhere there vvas not to fournish both bishop and preaching Elder there thapostles made a bishop and left the Elder So that by his Iudgement bishops were in greater nombre then then preaching Elders That the same was also in Cyprians time shall appeare God willing in the places after to be handled owt off him From his time vnto the Councell off Nice we haue the storie of Eusebius wherin as in a glasse we may see that the churche in this point was litle altered Considering that he assigneth the bishops charge continually for any thing that ether the Ans sheweth or I can gather to one church or to the churches in one citie onely Which maie better appeare in that his bishops are so often times called the bishop off a parishe as hath bene shewed and that he confoundeth a parishe with a churche a pastor with a Bishop as shall appeare so that onles the Answ will saie that there was in those times but one parish church pastor in compas off a prouince or dioces he muste be constreined to confesse that euery particuler churche for the moste parte had a Bishop And althowgh after time of the Nicene Councell there is no dowbt but that as the Bishops had more occasions of enlarging their boundes throwghe the disordered zeale off the godlie Emperours so they let not slip those occasions yet if we consider the estate off the churche what yt was abowte 400. yeares after Chryste we shall finde that bishops were not the tenth parte so thyn sowen as ours be now If a bishop ranne in to any slaunder and the slaunder pressing him he coulde not assemble a greate nomber of bishops to the ende he shoulde not remaine in that slaunder the Councell off Carthage was off aduise that his cause shoulde be hearde off twelue bishops and his owne bishop And an other that if an elder were accused he might call 6. bishops frō
thapostels times at Philippos where Paul expresly saluteth diuers bishops at Ephesus froÌ„ wheÌ„ce certein bishops sent for came to MiletuÌ„ Likewise in the church off Thessalonica there were diuers Presidentes the same by the D. diuinitie that Bishop or Archbishop And as it was in those churches so yt ys like to haue bene in other off greate resorte to heare the worde off God and habilitie to enterteine a more plentifull ministery Nether let him as he is wont oppose vnto the manifest wordes off the scripture Ambroses exposition vpon the place to the Philippians nor that which goeth vnder Ieromes name vpon the same For as for Ambrose a childe may see how violently he forceth the texte and what inconuenience he runnethe into to make yt agree with the coustome off his times wherin this order was for the moste parte worne owt And as for the other he is a couÌ„terfaicte and so marked not onely because he contrarieth that which Ierome did plainly teache but also for that the forme off writing is farre off another complexion Yt can not be denied but that this order of God was strickeÌ„ at by diuers canons off Councels and that as this was the firste attempte which the deuill gaue to abridge the nomber off Bishops in the churche so yt was more aunciente then that other off robbing the villages and small Cyties off their bishops Vpon what rotten groundes this abuse crepte in cometh afterward to be considered here yt is to be noted that this corruption was not so generall but that often times yt admitted exception And notwithstanding bothe custome and Canons in that behalfe good men vpon occasion made no conscience to ordeine twoo bishops of one citie Euseb maketh mention of Narcissus and Alexander Bishops at ones in one parishe and if yt be true which he reporteth that the same was by reuelation from heauen yt ys a good argumente that this voice was as yt were a repeale off that custome which had bene browght in contrarie to the firste institution off god Yt is writteÌ„ off Augustine that he was made bishop off Hippo bothe by the instante requeste off Valerius then another bishop there and by the consente off the Metra politane Bishop off Carthage And albeit in consideration off the canons made to the contrarie Augustine was lothe to take the charge yet instantly required he accepted yt Augustine him selfe also was off aduise that in those places where was a Donatiste Bishop and a catholike if the Donatiste returned vnto the vnitie of the churche then he should be receiued into the felowship off the bishops office with the catholike bishop Where he putteth onely thes exceptions if the people vvill suffer yt yf becavvse yt is not accoustomed the people vvill beare it Wherby is cleare that notwithstanding it was forbiddeÌ„ by canons yet he thowght yt not vnmeet to haue two bishops in one church if the people would beare it and if he were of this aduise notwithstanding the couÌ„cels to the coÌ„trary how much more would he haue thought it meet if the church had required aÌ„d made sute for it Also it is not to be forgotten that although this corruption off gyuing the name bishop to one in a church from the rest to whom it did off right belong be auncient yet godly men misliked it and by all likelihood broke it of Which Ieromes wordes do apparantly import this coustome vvas in the church off Alexandria from S. Mark vntill Heraclas and Dionysius For onles there were some change then why would he not rather haue saied from S. Mark vntill his time considering that all that time there was continuall succession of church and bishops Therfore belike those godly men seing the mischeif like to ensue of that coustome and vnderstanding that thinges owght to be called to the apostolick institution changed that coustome Furthermore it is diligently to be considered that this order off hauing one onely in euery church to haue the name of Bishop ouerspred not the church soudenly and at a clap but entred by litle and litle so that it is like there were diuers ages past or euer this had a generall passage thorowgh all the churches in the world By all which it may appeare how the Ans is abused in saying it can not be shewed from Christes time that euer there were two bishops in one church Thes thinges being thus laied let vs now come to Cyprians Testimonies Caput 3. VNto the firste diuision I haue answered In the second to proue that Cyprian speakethe off an Archbishop the D. concludeth thus yt is the principall office of the archbishop to prouide that peace and vnitie be kept in the churche c. but the office off him whom Cyprian describeth is to keepe peace in the churche therfore Cyprian speaketh of an archbishop This argumente is caste in the same moulde that those which he hathe vntrwly compared my reason vnto before and yt hathe almost more faultes then wordes But that the simplest maye see his dealing yt is to be vnderstanded that as the pretence off institucion off the Archbishop was to keepe peace and suppresse scismes so the onely pretence off translating the name off bishop from manie in one churche vnto one onely was the same as appeareth by the place off Ierome after discussed To let passe therfore that I haue proued and will after more appeare that there was then nether Archbishop nor Metropolitane and for disputacion sake to imagin Archbishops then yet when bothe the name and office Cyprian speaketh of agree vnto him which gouerneth in euerie churche or to speake as the D. speaketh diocese and the office onely withowte the name agreethe to the Archbishop yt must needes be meeter â—o refer Cypcians wordes to the Bishop then to the Archbishop seing that there be more cordes off reasons to pull them that waies then the other At the leaste yt is cleare that the Argument off the A. is faultie seing yt was not onely the principall office off the Archbishop to prouide for peace c. but the same also was the principall office off the Bishop as that vnder pretence wherof that kinde off Bishop was instituted Where he cometh to his oulde hole that althowghe the name be not there yet the office is I refere my selfe vnto that written before in that be halfe Howbeit here yt appeareth how he spake withowt booke saying all writers before the Nicene Councell make mention bothe off their names and offices when as Cyprian one off them hathe no worde off them Where he saithe Cypr. speaketh off Cornelius who had gouernement off all the prouince that is the question which becawse he coulde not proue he taketh graunted Where he addeth Cyprian had the charge and ouersight off all churches in Aphrica and for proofe alledgeth the 4. booke 8. Epistle he is abused for Cyprian dothe saie no suche thing He speaking there off himselfe and
priest and bishop for the same Howbeit because the autor him selfe ys aliue and knoweth best what he meaneth I am well content the meaning off his wordes be such as him self shall beste like off Out off M Fox he can not finde so much as a fig leafe and therfore telleth vs how he saith Rome vvas a patriarchall church and therfofore not vnlike but Carthage was also how by a dioces is ment a Prouince and forsomuch as he allowed an archbishop yt is like he expounded Cyprians place of an archbishop The onely rehersall is too long a confutation In the end are recited at large the wordes of M. Philpot. which attributing vnto Cyprian a dioces declareth that he esteemed him a bishop not an archbishop For that he calleth him the Nouatians cheif Bishop yt is far from the estate of an archbishop He might well call him so in respect of his singular learning and pietie or in that he was bishop off the cheifest place in Afrik And the same may be saied off Cornelius being Patriarch For otherwise in autoritie he could not be seing him self confesseth that patriarches were appointed at the councell off Nice about 150. years after Albeit the truth is that the appointement of those 4. patriarchall seates was not by the Councell off Nice but off Calcedon Nether doth it follow that if Cornelius were a Pairiarch therfore he was Prince off many bishops onles he will say that becawse Tertullian calleth Philosophers Patriarches off Heretikes and Ierome Tacianus the Patriarch of Encratites therfore Philosophers and Tacianus bore dominion ouer the Heretikes or Encratites He might be so called in that he was cheif father of the church off Rome where he executed his office as Ierome witnesseth off the Iewes Rabbines to haue bene called Patriarches yet they had no gouernmēt or rule but in the seuerall Synagogues where they taught Now it appeareth the Ans can not bring so much as one seely testimony to proue this place of Cyprian vnderstood of tharchbishops or metropolitanes autoritie besides that alledged of Muscu flatly denying that Cyp. thowght of any Archbis or Metrop but onely of euery Bishop in his owne church I will ad the testimony of Bucer who affirmeth the very same that I. Shewing against the Pope that Christ onely is vniuersall bishop he assigneth this reason For he is present vvith his sheepe and vvith euery of them and feedeth thē vntill the end of the vvorlde and for this cavvse putteth ministers in his place and that to euery church her seuerall minister For he did not onely gyue Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes and ministers off many churches once but gyueth also daily vnto euery church off his her ministers Pastors and Doctors and both instructeth and leadeth them vvith his spirit that they may serue their ministries him self onely gyuing increase vnto their planting and vvatering For vnto euery one off them he hath appointed a proper portion off the flock as S. Cyprian testified by vvarrant off tradition off Christ and his Apostles and that vvith this condition and povver that euery one together vvith his presbyterie and Clergie should rule his vvhole flock as one vvhich should make account off his ovvne act not vnto the Pope off Rome but to the lord vvhich is the Prince of Pastors Amōgest vvhō no man might appoint him self bishop of bishops or iudge an other or be iudged of an other vvherupon the iudgemēt of the bishop belonged vnto Synodes not vnto one bishop as long as the policie off the church gyuen by thapostels stoode Therfore bishops vvere equall not onely in povver of the keies by vvhich fable Latomus vvould elude the place of Cyprian but also in vse and degree off povver and iurisdiction In the end shutting vp all that he had saied off the metropolitanes he saith This is the sentence off the catholike church concerning the povver of bishopes as vvell off Rome as others grounded on the vvord off God approued by canons obserued off all true bishops Wherin Bucer affirmeth that this portion off the flock which Cyprian speaketh off is the charge off euery minister in his seuerall church and that by institution off Christ and his Apostels no minister or bishop can haue an other bishop to iudge him but that if there be a fault in him it is to be iudged by Synodes Thus I leaue to the readers iudgement how it was more easie for the Ans to say the godliest and learnedest writers expound the place of Cyprian of an archbishop then to shew it when it cometh to proofe And althowgh he fall flat vnder the bourden vndertaken in his first booke yet as thowgh he had not half his lode he hath charged him self a fresh For where before he saied the godliest and learnedest expound this of an archbishop now he saith all learned writers expound it as he doth It were well there were some reasonable proportion betwene the toung and the hand for it can not be but a fowle fault to be so long tounged and so short handed Before I come to Ieromes testimonie the order off tymes for the better vnderstanding off this cause requireth that those bothe autorities and examples be answered which the Answerer hath alledged bothe before owte off the Councell off Nice and Antioche and after pa. 470. c. The nexte to the times off Cyprian is Dionysius Alexandrinus which saith he had vnder his iurisdictiō all the churches in Pentapolis as Athanasius testifieth in a certeine epistle Apolog 2. First there ys no suche thinge in all that booke nor in no epistle conteined therin The place he meaneth of is in an epistle he wrote concerning Dionysius iudgement againste the Arian heresie Then yt ys not saide as he reporteth that all the churches of Pentapolis were vnder his iurisdiction but onely that he had care of those churches or as the translators words be the care of those churches apperteined vnto him Which what litle or no weighte they haue to proue archiepiscopall iurisdictiō shall be seene when we come to the place where the sense of this to haue care ys discussed In the meane time yt is to be obserued for better triall of this matter which I haue before noted owte of Eusebius that he succeded in the bishoprick off Alexandria vnto his predecessor withowte attributing vnto hym any further charge And when as Euseb declareth that he writing vnto the churches in Egipte wrote vnto them by the bare name of the brethren vvhich vvere in Aegypte withowte any title betokening anie bonde or knot off mynisterie towardes them and off the other parte writing vnto the churches in Alexandria intitleth that writing an exhortation vnto his flocke he declareth euidently that he estemed Alexandria his proper charge and that sauing that bothe in respecte Aegypte was his contrey and the peace of his owne churche was folded vp in the welfare of yt his care for Aegipte was generall as for other churches And the very testimonie
Antioch is first vnfaithfully translated after vntruly gathered vpon For where the Councell saith that the Bishop praesident in the Metropolitan citie should haue care of the Prouince because all men vvhich haue busines vse to come from all places to the Metropolitane cytie he hath pag. 332. turned the wordes off the Councell vpside downe putting in steed off because all men c. wherfore all men c. making that the effect which it maketh the cause and the cause which it maketh theffect The Coūcels meaning is that forsomuche as men doo vsually for other busines resort to the Metropolitane cytie therfore the bishop of it was most fit to whom controuersies should be browgt He translateth also for parish dioces and so in steed that the councell supposeth the bishop to haue vnder his charge often times beside those in the towne he dwelleth in certein villages which resort vnto his churche as in Hitchin and diuers other places with vs he to be sure to put in enowghe supposeth by his translation that the bishops had a diocese and their places beside If by diocese he meane suche as ours I would gladly knowe what those places were which the bishops had beside their dioceses when as in the largeste spred of bishops they were notwithstanding tethered within the compas off other dioceses Yf by it he meane a parishe suche as euery minister with vs is assigned vnto why vseth he diocese to deceiue the reader especially when the Councells wordes pulled him to the worde off paris he Yf he will excuse this later faulte and laie yt vpon the translatour of the Councels which turneth Parish Dioces he confirmeth at vnawares that which I saide that at the first a diocese and parishe were often confounded Howbeit that the Councels wordes can not beare that significacion as we take Dioces is before declared Vpon thes wordes he gathereth the hishops are subiecte vnto the metropolitane and that the councell willeth them to be so which is very vntrue for there is no worde in that canon that proueth subiection muche lesse expresseth As for the honor which they should giue him I haue shewed what it is owte off the Councell off Nice the care for other churches in the Prouince cometh after to be considered For the bringing off matters vnto him which they coulde not ende at home yt appeareth by diuers places that they were not browght to him to determin but onely to make relation off vnto the prouinciall councell and that he coulde ende no matter but which aduise off other Bishops in the same Prouince In the Africane Coūcell yt was decreed that if a bishop striuing vvith an other about the territories entred into them vvithovvt hauing resolutiō of the other bishops althovvgh he had the peoples consent and Metropolitanes letres he should leese his cause In the Councell of Sardis abowt the same time with that off Antioch the bishops call their Metropolitane brother and fellovv bishop What Lordship and dominion can be gathered off thes thinges I know not And that this was the first institution off Metropolitanes which I haue alledged and that I haue herin not straied from the meaning of the Councels may appeare by the testimonies off others which haue spoken off this matter Caluin saith they vvere instituted for preseruatiō onely of the policie and what that was he sheweth by the bishop the same in his owne churche which the Metropolitane in the Prouince That yt was as the office off a President in a Councell to propound matters togather the voices c and to put that in execution vvhich vvas decreed by the rest denying flatly that he had any dominion ouer the Elders off the same churche and affirming that he him self vvas subiect to the companie of the elders The same therfore by his iudgement must be the state off the Metropolitane towardes other Bishops Bucer saith there vvere certe in bishops assigned to the cheif seates vvheroff they had a singular care vvhich did not be haue themselues as bishops ouer the bishops off those dioceses but if any of them faulted admonished him as one brother doth an other as one fellovv and companion in office doth an other And if the bishop admonished ether did not or could not amend the fault he made relation of the vvhole matter vnto the Synode After he sheweth that at the first the excellencie and preeminence off the bishop off Rome Constantinople and Alexandria c. vvas not off povver and iurisdiction but of knovvledge zeale care and help of others vvhich those cheif bishops did so yeald vnto the churches that they left the vvhole right off the bishops office equall vvith that they thē selues executed vnto euery bishop Bullinger after he had proued all dominion primacie and maioritie forbidden by our Sauiour Christ vnto the minister saith From the beginning the Apostels and ministers off the churches vvhich folovved the rule off the Apostels gouerned their churches equally vvithovvte that one vvas preferred before an other which he offereth to proue by manie testimonies and aboute the councell off Nice and a litle before Metropolitanes by mans ordinance not to be contemned vvere receiued vvhich should as it vvere be presidentes vnto the reste or rather serue all the reste in calling Synodes And yt vvas very vvarely prouided that he should not be called the primate leste any man shoulde thinke that he vvas superior vnto other in povver but in order onely Wherin almoste all the poinctes off the Archbishop and Metropolitane debated betweene the Answ and vs are conteined For firste he denieth that there was any preferment of one minister aboue an other in the Apostles times Secondly he saith the office off the Metropolitane came in a litle before the Councell off Nice Thirdly that it was not lawfull for that metropolitane to be called primate Fourthly that he had no power ouer the reste but serued onely for keping of order in meetinges All which thinges we affirme and the D. denieth and that not withowte a triumphe As for that he saith this institution of man is not to be dispised it appeareth that he ment not to commend it but onely to signifie that if yt had remained in that simplicitie it might haue bene the easlier borne especially considering they haue no such order off Metropolitanes with them The B. off Salisbury vnto Harding obiecting that the primates had autoritie ouer inferior bishops answereth they had it by agreemēt and coustome but nether by Christ nor by Peter nor Paul nor by any right off Gods vvord Wherby not onely ys confirmed that whiche I propounded off my not variyng from the godly writers but also falleth the D. dreame that they were instituted by the Apostles Yea further appeareth that their institution with autoritie ouer other was vnlawfull as that which hath no manner warrant owt off the word off God. Hauing answered the Councells I returne vnto Ieromes place as yt is
set downe off the Ans He saith it is a poore refuge to discredite the autor I spared the autor casting part of the error vpoÌ„ the times wherin he liued which I proued corrupter and further from the truth left by thapostles by a reason which he could not so much as wrangle with althowgh as towching the proofe off an archbishop or bishop suche as ours I am content the Ans set vp his credit as much as he will. He saith there is no difference betwene Cyprians bisbop and Ieromes Seing he will needes haue it so let one measure be off both and therby I trust shall appeare off that which I haue spoken before that Ieromes bishop is lower by heade and shoulders then they for whom his autoritie is houlden owt Howbeit if in Cyprians time the bishop onely had not the laying on of handes and ordeining him that was chosen to the ministrie by the church but the Elders and he did nothing in his church or parish but vvith aduise of the Elders theroff yt appeareth that Ieromes bishop althowgh differing onely from an other minister in ordeining Elders and Deacons had somwhat encroched vpon the boundes off the presbitery more then Cyprians Lastly he saith for the corruption off times this kinde of bishop was deuised I willingly giue testimonie vnto those gouernours or at least the most off them that they had a good meaning in that inuention off man but that it was remedy against the corruptions I deny And to the reasons before alledged for proofe therof let this be added that euen from the first day wherin this deuise was established the corruption in the church was not deminished but grew and got strenght by litle vntill the whole face of the earth was couered and the power off darcknes in the fulnes off Antichristes kingdome wholy setled Likewise that the first resistance by any setled church against that corruption was by those which abolished that deuise off man and receiued the order in the Apostels times towching the equalitie off ministers As the Bohemians Merindoles the churches in Germany and Geneua whose standerd bearers as partly hath appeareth and more hereafter shall fowght against this stately dominion both of bishops and archbishops The next diuis I leaue to the readers iudgement referring him to that answered in the beginning In the next as one whose forehead is more hard then Adamant he shameth not still to affirme that this manner off bishop and archbishop was in the Apostles time notwithstanding the autor owt off whom he draweth his proofes confesseth that at the first there was no difference betwene a bishop and an Elder and that after it was decreed that in euery church one onely should haue the name of bishop Yf it were the first institution that they shoulde be one and the first institution be the Apostels institution it was the Apostels institution that they shoulde be all one yf the Apostels did reuoke this institution off theirs shewe their handes bringe forthe their euidence Ierome prouethe by diuers testimonies off scripture that a bishop and elder were one according to S. Paul. Therfore if the D. auoide this autoritie he must shewe vs the Apostels autoritie in writing for herin yt is trwe that the lawe saith matter of vvriting and recorde can not be auoided but by that of as high a nature He gathereth that this order of bishops and archbis was in thapostles times because there were schismes then I haue by this reason proued in an other place that thâ—â—e were no archbishops where if he had any thinge he should haue spoken And how is he bewitched which seeth not the wordes of his autor For when Ierome saith this came by custome he euidently declareth that â—â— was not by determinacion of the Apostels The same declareth Augustin when he saith the office of a bishop vvas greater then off an other mynister as tovvching the names off honor throvvghe a custome off the churche vvhich novve hathe gotteÌ„ the vpper hand Likewise when Ierome saithe this preferment of the bishop is not by any necessitie of lavve but for that yt vvas graunted to honor him vvithall yt ys manifeste that yt was not by the Apostlels determinacion For yf yt had bene their institution yt had bene necessarie After admitting yt was after the Apostels he procedeth to answer Tertullian which saithe that ys true vvhich is first that ys false vvhich is later But how cometh yt to passe that he anwereth not that alledged owte off our Sauiour Christes e wordes which calleth the Pharisies vnto the firste institution that was belike to harde for him to byte vpon And the answer vnto Tertullian is absurde For he bringeth him in reasoning as he vseth that is prouing the thinge in controuersie by that a like doubtefull For if the rule of Tertullian extende yt selfe no further then vnto thinges he there speaketh of and in debate his reason is no reason but a giddie turne aboute wherin altowghe greate paines be taken yet there is no grownde gotten Wheras Tertullian proue the that Praxeas iudgement of our Sau. Christe was therfore naught because yt was new aÌ„d new because yt was not agreing with that gyuen by the scripture Moreouer his answer to the place presumeth that the gouernement off the churche is not a matter off faithe and saluacion which is the question And as for his Phantasies he resembleth my reason with they haue nothing like For beside that there were Christian magistrates baptisinges in churches coÌ„munion ministred vnto more then 12 â–ª in thapostels times and off their alowance the Apostels neuer tawght that there should be no ChristiaÌ„ magistrates no baptisinges hut in riuers no eating off thinges strangled c. the contrary off all which they plainly taught ordeining onely that the Gentils should support the Iewes in strangled thinges abut they rawght that a bishop and traching elder be all one and neuer alowed that one Pastor shoulde take the name off a bishop from all his fellows within 40. myles compas The testimonie owt off Tertull maketh way for Montanus heresie wherof I haue spoken beforé Vnto the nexte diuis he answereth not For yt being plaine that the Apostels tawght that a bishop and elder were all one because he had nothinge to answer he leueth that and runnethe backe to that handled in the beginning off the equalitie off ministers As for the testimonie owte of Zuinglius firste yt is vntrw that the Anabaptistes obiecte this place againste Zuinglius which I haue pressed him with secondly yt is vntrue that they obiected vnto him in the like case which wee doo for in all their controuersies with him they haue not one of those pointes now debated And where he saith Tertullians wordes serue not because thes degrees are not againste the truth let him denie if he dare that this is the truth off God that a Bishop and an other minister off the word be all
one Then let him answer whether thes sayinges a bishop and an other minister off the word are all one a bishop and an other minister off the word be not all one be opposed and set one against an other If he can deny none off these then it ys iustly concluded that this inuention off man which hath made a bishop to differ from another mynister off the worde is againste the truth Because I loue not that compas off wordes which the D. delighteth in I concluded shortly and yet sufficiently to the vnderstanding off any that dothe not willingly blindefolde him selfe My argument ys The best deciding off controuersies vvas in the apostels time but that vvas not by archbishops vvherfore the best deciding of cōtrouersies is not by archbishops for proofe that yt was not by archbis I set downe that there were no archebishops then Vnto this deformed face off reason as he calleth yt let vs see how formally he answereth Firste he saith we are not bounde to the forme of gouernemēt vsed by the Apostels and therin referreth him selfe to that he hath and shal saie where also let him take his answer Secondly that althowghe the Apostels had not the name off Archbishops yet they had the office which I haue shewed to be a shift of the Papistes Then yt is to be obserued how he proueth that thapostels had the office of an archbishop and in what good logicke Archbishops haue the direction off many churches the ending off controuersies c. the Apostles had the same therfore the Apostels were archbishops by this reason a man maie proue not onely diuers but contrary thinges to be all one seing contraries haue diuers thinges wherin they agree So that first this kinde off reasoning hath the fault of those ridiculous argumentes which the D. propoundeth pag. 316. secondly yt taketh for graunted which is the question For he presumeth that the Archbishops office kepeth the church in godly quietnes which is debated Thirdly to proue the Apostels autoritie in the churches which is not in question he hath made a greate muster of testimonies to proue the archbishops not a word After he cyteth Ambrose to proue that Apostles are bishops Yt is greate merueill if he kepe good order in the church for whose establishement the Answ is constreined thus to confound and make a broile off all and it is before confuted Howbeit admitting that the bishops succede vnto the Apostels in preaching the word and gouerning the church I haue shewed how that is a whip to driue the archbishop cleane owt of the church off god And this is here to be obserued that when it is saide the bishops succede vnto the Apostels c. that must be vnderstanded off the Apostles bishops and such as they instituted For what bishops haue better right to succede the Apostles then they But those were as I haue shewed bishops off singular congregations bishops which had no superiotitie ouer their fellowbishops as Ierome doth confesse In the end he saith If I can proue by good autoritie that one was gouernour amongest the 12. Apostles it shall not seme strange to haue an archbishop ouer a Prouince If vpon this that one had gouernement of 12. assembled in a particular place he can conclude that there should be one gouernour off the ministers in a Prouince I can with better reason conclude that there may be one to gouerne all the ministers in the worlde For if because one gouerned twelue therfore one may gouerne all in Prouince then becawse one may gouerne all in a Prouince I will conclude that one may gouerne all in the worlde As towching the number off those which are gouerned there is not so much difference betwene the ministers off a Prouince and the ministers off the whole church as betwene 12. and the ministers off some whole Prouince Towching the distance off place yt is as much betwene a Prouince and the wole extent off Christianitie as betwene a particular place off an acre breadeth and some Prouince Wherfore this reason is more fauorable to the Pope then to the Archbishop Peters superioritie shall be after seen where also this sentence of Ierome shall be answered Onely here let it be obserued that the Answ hath borowed this reason off Pope Anaclete which alledgeth it to proue Archbishops And it is browght also of Pighius against the protestantes which denied that there owght to be any archbishops as shall appeare herafter more at large The place off Caluin is handled afterward Bucers vpon the Ephes I haue answered That owt off his booke de Reg. Ch. the same in effect hath the same answer Howbeit it is here to be noted how the D. thorowgh greedy desire off seeming to say somwhat putteth downe with one hand that he setteth with the other For to the maintenance off the archbishop and bishop here be browght two testimonies one of Ierome thother of Bucer cleane contrary If Ierome say true that the superioritie off one Bishop ouer an other is by coustome not by institution off God then is that vntrue pretended out off Bucer that it pleased the holie goste yt should be so For if it be off the holie goste it is the institution of god The D. therfore must forgoe one off thes seing that both will neuer drawe in one forowgh The contrarietie with my self which the glosse chargeth me with is for that pag. 349. I saied owt off Eusebius that as long as thapostles liued if any vvent about to corrupt the doctrine they dit it in the darck and here owt off the Apostle I affirme there vvere heresies and schismes Wherin what contrarietie there is and what a trifler this is let the reader iudge sauing that if there were any contrarietie it is not mine with my self but Eusebius with the Apostle The Answ would gird vp his Archbishop in smaller roume that he might seme les growen owt off faschion He saith therfore the archbishop when a schisme or heresie riseth determineth yt according to the law established by the church Wherin he speaketh absurdly considering that the church can make no other rule wherby he may procede in decision off schismes and heresies then in referring him to the rule off the scripture So the summe off this answer is the Archbishop may not determin the matter at his pleasure but according to the word off god As thowgh the question were by what rule controuersies should be decided and not by whom For when the controuersie at Antioch was referred to the Apostles c. in Ierusalem it was not permitted vnto them otherwise to iudge off it then according to the word Now therfore let it be obserued how aptly the D. answereth To abat◠the swelling autoritie off the Archbishop I alledge that in deciding cōtrouersies yt is not permitted to any one to determin vvhat is the vvill off God in that behalf The D. saith the archbishop must determin by the word off God.
Cyprian which by one priest in the churche vnderstandeth one onely bishop in a church for therby it foloweth that ether there was but onely one priest in the church of Carthage or els thes wordes bishop and prieste were all one so that whosoeuer was one was the other The nexte diuision hath not a worde to purpose for autorities are quoted to proue that the Apostels apointed Bishops in diuers churches which no man denieth yea I haue namely alledged yt before Where I shew that forsomuche as the Archdeacon is reproued of Ierome for preferring him sefe before an elder because the scripture maketh him inferior vnto the elder by the same reason a bishop is to be reproued for that he preferreth himself before an elder which the scripture maketh his equall he answereth he seeth no sequell nor likelihoode notwithstanding I truste there is none that hathe but his commen sense which dooth not easely vnderstande that yt is no more lawfull for those which are ordeined equalls by the scripture to lifte them selues one aboue an other then yt is lawfull for him that is apointed to be vnder to exalte him selfe aboue his superior for althowghe he be in greater faulte which being vnder exalteth him selfe aboue then he which magnifieth him selfe aboue his equall yet as the ordinance off God cawseth the one to be vnlawfull so yt doothe the other The seconde answer is there maie be degrees amongeste the ministers notwithstanding all this for that Ierome saithe there was a degree This is a verie blunt answer I alledge bothe autoritie off the scripture and Ieromes owne reason againste the distinction off one bishop from the reste and he answereth that the distinction is good for Ierome so saith Thirdly althowgh Ierome confesse that a bishop and an elder be all one by the scripture yet he confesseth superioritie off a bishop before an other elder but he saith they are all one by the scripture and that the bishop is superior by coustome And here he stitchethe in a parenthesis For after he had alledged Ierome confessing that a bishop and an elder are all one by scripture he addeth as they be in deede towching the ministerie Therby desirous as yt seemeth to abuse his symple reader in making him belieue that Ierome mente that there was by the scripture difference in policie betweene a bishop and an other mynister which ouerthroweth the whole intente of Ierome For he sheweth that this difference which the D. in other places termeth for order and Policie betwene a bishop ād an other minister was not by the scripture but by coustome and beganne at Alexandria And seing Ierome putteth a difference betwene the bishop specified in S. Paul and the bishop in his time yf the Answ say that S. Paules bishop differed frō an other minister as towching order and policie I would gladly knowe of him how Ieromes bishop and he which is now differeth from an other minister Yf he answer as he hath doone before that they differ not as towching the ministery but as towching order and policie thē he putteth no differēce betwene S. Paules bishop and Ieromes which is ouerthrow of all that Ierome saith and he hath flatly affirmed where he maketh Ieromes bishop instituted by the churche after the Apostels times After he blusheth not to saie that Ierome makethe a difference betwene S. Paules bishop and another minister For althowghe he broilethe and mingleth all vpon a heape thincking throwgh confusion off all to cawse his treachery not to be seen yet after he doth plainly vtter yt in answering Chrysostomes wordes the same with Ieromes But before I come to his reasons wherby he would proue this I will set downe the wordes off Ierome wherby his vnhoneste dealing maie be better perceiued First he saith a ministre that is to say a bishop and a litle after the Apostle dothe plainly teache that a bishop and a minister are all one And in an other place a Bishop and a minister are the same againe althovvghe vvith the auncient fathers bishops and elders vvere all one Here appeareth manifestly that Ierome saith a bishop and an other minister be all one with the Apostell and with the auncient times that he expoundethe one by the other that he turneth one off them vpon an other for as he saith that bishops be ministers so he affirmeth that mynisters be bishops Nowe of the twoo reasons to proue that Ierome put a difference betweene a bishop and an elder this is the firste the one is a name of age and the other of dignitie which is asmuch to saie as they differ in deede because they differ in name and that the auncientes and elders off the people off Israell were not their gouernours because the name aff auncientes is a name off age and the other of honor or as if the eldest brother were not the heir because the one is a name of age the other of honor Wheras Ieromes purpose is plainly to shew that althowgh the names be diuers yet the thinges are all one And yf there be anie dignitie shut vp in this name bishop the ministers are partakers of it considering that he affirmeth that they be bishops And if there be any inferioritie noted by the name off elder the bishop hathe his parte in yt for so muche as he is an elder Althowghe the trwthe is that by the worde dignitie Ierome mente nothing but an office and called the name off bishop the name off a dignitie becawse the office drawethe dignitie with yt And because of reuerence which the yonger giue to thelder as also for that ministers and bishops were often taken from them whiche were well growne in age they were called elders So that althowgh the name elder be the name off age yet yt draweth as muche honor after yt as the name off bishop His other reason is Ierome saithe an elder is conteined in a bishop which he bringeth as a proofe to shew that Deacons are therfore vnder elders because elders and bishops be all one with S. Paul. So that he hath not onely depraued Ieromes minde but drawne his wordes to a cleane contrarie sense of that he ment for euen by the same wordes wherby Ierome woulde proue they be all one he would proue them diuers And althowghe Ieromes maner of speache here be somewhat harde for that purpose considering that thinges which are all one can not properly be saide to conteine one another yet bothe by his plaine wordes in other places and manifest suite off his disputation he made his meaning so well knowne that no man onles willing coulde stumble at his phrase And if the D. will thus hunt at syllables yet this speache off Ieromes is so farre from helpinge him that yt dooth vtterly ouerthrow all his houlde he snatcheth at For where he vpon thes wordes in a bishop is conteined an elder would conclude that euery bishop is a minister but not euery minister a
which I haue shewed to be far from the vse of those times or onles we graunt that there can be no schismes nor heresies in a particular congregacion wherof there is to good experience or that yt is impossible there should be many elders in one church which I haue declared and shall God willing declare further to be vntrue I saie onles thes proue an archbishop or a lorde bishop there is nothing in those wordes off Ierome And yet the D. that he may helpe his weake reasons with stronge wordes muste vppon thes conclude yt impossible to expounde Ieromes wordes otherwise then off bishop or archbishop such as ours Where he concludeth vpon that the elders chose one amongeste them whom they made bishop as the captaine is chosen of the the soldiars that therfore the bishop was ouer diuers congregations there is no likelyhood off reason And where to giue yt some he threapeth twoo thinges at my hande the one that this worde elder signifieth onely a minister off the worde thother that euery minister of the worde had his seuerall flocke he doothe but dalie For he knoweth well that I hould that the worde elder reacheth to such as gouerne onely and that there were in diuers congregations more then one which preached the word of god Where he saith those which I call obscure villages were litle cyties suche as with vs Ely or Peterborowgh I leue it to the reader to iudge how muche I haue therin squared from Erasmus who calleth them peeuish litle Tovvnes Where he saith he callethe them base cities I am contente the reader take which he liketh beste For bothe in proper speache can not be trew for to cal a towne and a litle towne and a peuishe lytle towne a citie is not for any thinge I know wonted Howbeit I will not here striue yt is sufficient that I haue shewed that there were bishops in other places which were no cities And euen in this the D. letteth fall the Popes decree which he defendeth in an other place which forbiddeth as well to place bishops in base and small cities as in vplandishe townes And albeit the D. be not hable by thes wordes of Ierome nor by any other which he hathe browght to proue that the bishop had any further reache then vnto one onely churche yet forsomuche as yt is not here question off the victorie but off trwth nor what the Ans is hable to proue but what maye be proued I will not denie but in Ieromes times the bishops vpon occasions before off me alledged had enlarged their boundes in suche sorte that there were certen congregacions which belonged to their ouersight and wherof they were called bishops But I appele first to the institution off God and vse of the purer times after the Apostles and then I answer that a dioces was not the twentith part of that which they haue now As appeareth by that alledged before owt of the Councels and by that Ierome saith that their elders vnder them gouerned in commen vvith them which they coulde not haue doon onles they being hard by had made one bodie with them For nether could the bishop doo any thing in his congregation withowt the elders nor they in theirs withowt him but they made one Senate amongest them The practise wherof is yet to be seen in certein reformed churches ▪ where the elders off certein small parishes round abowt make one bodie off Senate with the elders off the principall towne meeting together once at the least euery week Sauing that they haue altogether abolished that euill coustome which wrong the name of bishop from all the rest vnto one and graunted the ordinacion to him alone there being one amongest them which hath onely this aboue the rest when they assemble together to propound matters gather the voices giuethe exhortations and that also for a time and not during his ministerie I haue shewed that the argument wherwith the Ans would off a bishop conclude an archbishop and off one ouer a dioces one ouer a whole Prouince is too bad and it is not here to be repeted This place requireth to shew that albeit the Metropolitan was now receiued in the East partes yet ether he was not in the most partes off the weast where Ierom was or Ierome did not acknowledge him Wherin I will first propound my argumentes and after answer to his obiections And firste euen with the selfe same places he would proue tharchbishop is he ouerturned as of that againste the Lucifer For if it be certein which I haue shewed that Ierome speaketh off the autoritie that euery bishop hath in his precincte and plaine by Ieromes wordes that the autoritie he speaketh off there is suche as not onely hath no superior but no mate yt muste folow that aboue the bishop which Ierome propoundeth there can be no archbishop Againe where he affirmeth that the bishop elder and deacon vnder the gospell are in the same place that Aron his sonnes and the Leuites were vnder the law yt maie be concluded that forasmuch as euerie bishop in his charge hathe the same autoritie Aaron had and yt is certeine that there was no ecclesiasticall autoritie ouer Aaron therfore by Ierome there owght to be none aboue the bishop in euery churche Moreouer vpon that he saith that all bishops succede vnto the Apostels yt maie be reasoned forsomuch as the bishops haue the places off the Apostels in their seuerall churches and it certeine that the Apostels had no dominion one ouer an other but equall autoritie ▪ as bothe hath bene and shall be God willing further shewed that bishops owght not to haue anie bishop to whom they owght to be subiecte Beside this speaking off the orders in the churche in his times he reckenethe vp deacons archdeacons elders archelders and bishops If there had bene any Archbishops where hē was or he had alowed of anie there coulde neuer haue bene so fit a place to haue spoken off him considering that his purpose was to shew those degrees which were Seing therefore he maketh no mention off him yt is apparant that there was none or that he alowed off none Moreouer he putteth this difference betwene the Montanistes and the Catholikes that Catholikes had their bishops as the successors off thapostels gyuing vnto them the firste place but the montaniste heretikes had in the firste and cheifest place Patriarches in the seconde certeine vvhich they called Cenones so that the Bishop with them occupied but the thirde Now if the bishop was the higheste degree in the catholike churche and if to haue a Patriarche which the D. saith is all one with a Metropolitane and Archbishop ouer the bishop was in Ieromes iudgement worthie off this reproche I leaue yt to the readers iudgement what was Ieromes opinion off the office off an Archbishop and whether the same blot which he marked in the rowte off Montanistes be not in our churche where there is aboue
Wherby also foloweth that where the popular estate or the rule of the beste beareth swaie they can not althowghe they vvould haue an archbishop yea herupon foloweth that ether the Canterbury or Yorke archbishop muste leese his head For yt is concluded off his highe diuinitie that as there is but one prince in the whole Realme so there muste be but one Archbishop His reason the Prince can not els be supreme gouernour off all estates and causes ecclesiasticall to say no more is senseles and hath no knot with that wherunto yt belongeth As if vvhen Roome had both Emperours and consules the Emperour could not be cheife gouernour off the consuls because the Consuls were equall amongest themselues I confessed yt vnconuenient that there should be one Caesar ouer the worlde but that yt may be he alledgeth Caluin that yt is moste absurd to what pourpose what contrarietie is here yt is enowghe for me that there may be and that lawfully a Prince of larger extent of dominion then the archbishop of his archbishopricke althowghe the prince vvould graunte yt him which vtterly ouerthroweth his cause and this being alledged off me afterward is clean passed by For his defense consisteth in this that the Popes widenes off iurisdiction ouer churches ys vnlawfull because he hath yt not of the gifte off Princes and in this that the externall gouernement of the church must be according to the forme and kinde off gouernement in the commen wealth Which is also manyfestly confuted there whence he hath borowed this temony For there he addeth that althowgh yt were graunted that there might be one Caesar ouer all the worlde yet yt followeth not that there may be one bishop ouer all the churches which notwithstanding muste needes folowe if the externall gouernement off the church muste be according to that forme and kinde off gouernement vsed in the commen wealth a For the distinction which supposeth certein ministers of the word and Sacramētes onely and certein to haue to gether with the administration off them the gouernemente also I refer the reader to that before written his vaine cauil that I desire to be vncontrolled off any but off God is answered The D. accuseth me off falsehood for that I charge bim with citing Augustine and Crysostome at large Towching Augustine that he vvas so alledged appeareth firste pag. 583. and both he and Chrysostom pag. 296. Where he saith he vsed that large quotacion onely once in Muscul Cyril and M. Fox he coulde hardly doo yt oftner in the two laste considering that as I remember he alledgeth them once onely but towching Muscul beside the place I charge him with he lefte his aduersary twise to his wide worckes Where he remembreth not that he sendeth to any other writers but with places quoted as particularly as he could his memory vvhich is so miraculouse at other times is here but miserable To helpe yt beside this place off Cal. he sendeth to his Institutes vvithowt any further restreinte as appeareth pag. 132. againe pag. 74. in his former booke for he hath quoted yt in this later Likewise that Damasus calleth Stephen Archdeacon withowt any direction pag. 344. Also alledgeth Gratian Polidore Volateran vvithowte any restreinte 589. pa. I omit that he sendeth towardes th end off his booke to the large feilde off godly interpreters that diuers times he gyueth the booke onely where he might gyue the chap. the chap. onely where he mighte giue the section all which are contrary to that he setteth downe Wherby may appeare what a hard mouth he hath and howe I speake sparingly off this kinde off allegation off his Charged heere by his fonde allegacion off Cal. Institut he answereth I knew there were sundry editions I did so but whether yt be absurd that he should leaue both the beste and moste vsual to take that which is worse and in the handes of fewe onles he mente to play vnder the boorde that men should not vnderstand I leaue to the readers iudgement His reason he had noted yt laboured it and was acqainted with yt is very simple For is yt meete that because he had made his booke a litle heuier with yncke he should be wedded so to yt as to neglecte the commen commoditie how he is acquainted with yt I knowe not but I trust yt hath and shall appeare that there is no more frendship betwene him and his booke in thes matters then betwene light and darknes But yt is foly to reason with him for he addeth Doctorlike that he both hath and will so vse yt still Howbeit how cometh yt to pas that euen in his former booke he hath alledged the later edition belike ether that was some tributary allegacion or els the latter was better to him there then his noted one Howe vniustly he chargeth me with vncerteine direction in ether all or the moste off thes he setteth downe I leaue to be iudged off that I haue said in that behalfe The reste off this diuis with the nexte is nothing but bare and bould affirmacions reproches and repetitions The nexte to it hath nothing but trifling and vnlerned questions before answered That set downe off the inconuenience off many speaking together according to the prouerbe many may sing but not speake at once is not as he saith needles but made way to the necessitie of hauing one which otherwise equal should haue some preheminence in that action The next hath nothing but railing wordes with repetition off repetitions and that beside the matter considering that the cautions I put off the moderator in the assembly off ministers I put not as alwais obserued off the D. Bishops and Archbishops but as those which owghte to be In asking scripture for proofe he dalieth seeking for that he would not find as the scholer the rod he must be beaten with The cocke a glorious and proud birde which will not suffer his victorie to be hidden but proclameth yt forthwith by crowing yet if he be ouercome hideth him selfe Wherin he sheweth a great deale more modestie then the D. which althowgh he haue neuer a spur of argument ether to defend him self or to offend his aduersary yet croweth as high as if the maistrie were in his hande But let yt goe let vs see his fighte To that I alledgrd of Peter chosen by the other Apostels to moderate the two firste actions notwithstanding yt be not set downe he answereth yt is wicked to grounde thalteration of the archbishop and our bishops gouernemente continued long and practised in the beste times of the church withowt yea contrary to the ground off scripture The long continuance onles they haue salte off the worde off God to preserue them argueth they be rotten and suche as caste an euill sauour That they were not in the beste times off the church hath before appeared whether yt haue ground owte off the worde that Peter was chosen by the Apostels
off this diuis he saith Peter was in all such assemblies the cheife and in an other place he was the cheife in euery matter and for proufe saith the moste off the old ecclesasticall writers in that respecte counte him cheife of the Apostels yt had bene good he had shewed at the leaste one I cōfesse that there are ould writers which call him so but that they doo yt in that respecte I denie for the cheifty they giue him ouer the reste was for his singular zeale and other giftes not as he saith for that he had autoritie ouer them For proofe wherof I will propound him firste that Peter was Prince of the Apostels as Plato was of the Philosophers likewise that he was Prince off the Apostels as Moses Helias Dauid Isay off the Prophetes Now if Plato were ruler or had the commaundement off other Philosophers or if Moses of the Prophetes that cam after his death then Peter also might haue the same ouer the Apostels but if they be therfore so called because they excelled the reste in giftes then yt is cleare that thes fathers estemed not Peter chiefe for any powre or autorny ouer the reste An other saith Peter vvas that the reste off the Apostels vvere off like not office onely but honour and povvre directly contrary to D. vvhere he preferreth Peter in honour and contrary to that he both here and pag. 68. althowghe not in the same in wordes yet indeed doth affirme Thirdly it is to be noted that heere the D. hande is againe with Harding againste the bishop to whom alledging that Peter had powre ouer the reste off the Apostels the bishop answereth Peter vvas chiefe off the APostels as Aristippus is called chiefe off Philosophers that is the firste or beste man off the company where he denieth that S. Peter was ether lord or Prince or had povvre or vvas gouernour ouer the reste off thapostels He addeth from this opinion that Peter in all such assemblies and in all matters moderated the reste was chiefe and spake first the late writers dissent not If he meane the Papistes I graunt if the Catholike he bringeth not nor as I thincke can bring so much as one which saith so Here he hath the bishop againste him to whom may be added Caluin Bullinger Beza Gualter with others Wher I shew that Iames ruled the action Act. 15. and not Peter considering that he pronounced the sentence vvherunto the rest agreed he saith first that Peter spake before the reste which is vntrew for there was great disputacion off both sides before Peter spake ▪ therfore yt muste needes be that the cawse was propounded by some before And so yt is friuolous he alledgeth owt off Caluin to proue Peter proloquutor for that he stoode vpon this especially that he mighte declare thestate of the question as yf the Apostels Synode were so confused that a great parte of it was spente or euer the company were informed of the state off the question Wheras Caluin meaneth that S. Peter confirmed pithely the trwth in that question and not that he trauailed to shew wherin the question consisted as appeareth by Peters whole oration So that Saint Peters oration is firste set downe not for that he spake firste but for that he was the first amongeste the Apostels and Elders which S. Luke thowght good to commit to writing It is also childish that Peter was moderator because he spake after there was great disputacion as if euery one which cometh betwene two parties striuing to draw thē to concord hath autoritie ouer them considering that ther is not a worde in Peters oration which giueth the least ynckling off suche autoritie beside that to helpe him selfe he shamfully slaundreth the Apostels Synode attributing vnto yt a tumult and bitter contention where S. Luke saith onely greate disputacion which may well be withowt both Whether yt be custome off Synodes for the moderator to speake laste and so to ponounce the sentence gathered vpon the former voices I leaue yt to the iudgement off the reader referring him also to that the bishop writeth in this behalfe who proueth against Harding which will haue Peter cheife that Iames vvas chief because he gaue the definitiue sentence Wherby also appeareth that this came ether from Pigghius or Harding or from some suche popishe fen After admiting Iames Moderator he faithe being then bishop by the Scoliastes iudgement yt was not vnmeete he should be moderator within his charge I haue shewed that an Apostle can not be changed into a bishop and if he coulde yet yt was vnmeete that S Peter should leefe his right wherto he saith he was ordeined off God to vse from thascention vnto his dying day Therfore it is against him directlie but how against me he nether doth nor cā shew Beside it is absurde that an Apostle shoulde giue place vnto a bishop because the bishop is in his charge considering that an Apostle is in his charge in what churche soeuer he come and that as an Apostle to whom the bishop vnlesse he were by consent chosen to gouerne the synode owght to giue place And if yt be trew that it is meete the bishop of the place where the synode is houlden should gouerne the synode why hath he made this before a necessarie cause off hauing an archbishop to gouerne Synodes The other place off the Actes makethe for this matter For if Iames assembled the lders and ruled that meeting wherin it was determined what S. Paule should doo him selfe being present which was as shall appere in nothing inferior vnto Peter he might by the same right moderate the assemblie in Peters presence Where I shew that this is the superioritie which is amōgest bishops and ministers he answereth yt is so but not all But owt of the scripture wheroff the question is here he neither doth nor can shew other superioritie so that here his cause faleth flat Wher I alledged Maister Caluin that one off the Apostles indefinitelie not any one singular person had the moderation off the rest he answereth owt off him that it vvould not be absurde if vve confesse that the Apostels gaue preheminence vnto Peter Which is but daliaunce For he affirmeth simply that our Sauiour Christ meant nothing lesse then to make Peter cheife off the reste off the Apostels Here Hauing proued that Peter vvas nothing els but one of the tvvelue that he vvas equall vnto them their fellowe not their lord that they had as muche povver ouer him as he ouer them he disputeth that if it were graunted which the Papistes require off Peters being Prince off the Apostles which he vtterlie deniethe yet yt followethe not which they would conclude off a Pope Likewise he daliethe in shewing what autoritie the Consull off Rome and masters of Colledges haue adding that tharchbishop is content with lesse Where Caluin compareth the moderator in the ministers meeting with the
this testimonie of Epiphanius And further saith of Wickleue that therfore he tooke away the difference betwene bishop and elder because he could not obteine the bishoprick of Worcester and in an other booke inueigheth sharplie against them for that they would haue neither Pope nor primate nor Archbishop nor Bishop And that yt may yet appeare euen to the simple reader that they had the same cause against Pigghius and the Papistes which we against the D. I offer to his consideration besides the two flat testimonies of M Barnes aÌ„d Hooper before cyted M. Wickleues tenthe article in thes wordes Ther be 12 disciples of Antichrist Popes Cardinalles Patriarckes Archbishopes Bishops Archedeacons Officials Deanes Monkes Chanons Fryers and Pardoners If the D. say that Wickleue spake that not off the offices but off their abuse in popery that shift will not serue coÌ„sidering that he leaueth owt priestes and Deacons Wherof the priest especially doing more mischeife then diuerse which are reckened yet because he occupied the place off the pastor in euery congregacion which was the ordinance off God and was onely a deprauacion and deformitie off the trew ministerie he spareth him the other because they were deuised partlie herbingers to prepare his way partly purucâ—ers to interteine his estate he marked with the black cole off Antichristianitie Yf yt be further said that Wickleue should by this meanes condemne the estate off a bishop vvhich S. Paule alloweth off yt is manifest that he bet against the lord bishop which ruleth ouer other ministers in adiocese coÌ„sidering that he leaueth the priest the deformitie of the teaching minister which minister is all one as hath bene shewed with S. Paules Bishop Beside this reason they may as well saye he spake not against the office off Pope Chanons Monkes Friars Pardoners but onely against the abuse which is absurde This to the learned may better appeare by Pigghius discourse which confesseth that the Waldenses and Wickleue left the ordeâ— off priesthode as they call yt and that the whole question betwene them was not whether lord bishops and Archbishops did their dutie but whether they were lawfull estates Wherby appearethe that whosoeuer was the D. marchant these wares come from one off the filthiest puddels off popery and withall that as sone almost as there was any set and apparant estate of the churche which proclaimed open warre against Antichrist the letters off defiaunce were as well sent against the Archbishop and longehanded bishop as against the Pope Luther also after them writethe thus Bishops vvhersoeuer they be in all the vvorlde are equall to our bishops or parishe ministers and preachers of none caÌ„ yt be said one is lord an other a seruant they are off the same iudgement and vvhatsoeuer belongethe to the churche equally belongeth to all except that vvhich Paule teacheth some preacher or Christian may be off a sounder faith then other haue greater giftes then another interprete the scripture better then an other rule better then an other preache better and haue the discretion off spirites more then an other c. hovvbeit suche giftes cause no inequalitie or lordship in the church Here I will also set downe the iudgement off the reformed churches in Heluetia Zurich Berne Geneua Polonia Hungery Scotland c. who hauing reckened the ministries specified in scriptures add in the times follovving ther vvere many other titles off ministers brovvght into the churche For some vvere ordeined Patriarckes some Archbishops other Suffraganes also metropolitanes Archelders c. but for all those vve passe not ether vvhat they vvere in times past or are novv the Apostels doctrine of the ministers is sufficient for vs. Yf all these churches make no accounte off these offices not onely as they are now but when they were at the best if they esteme them withowt the doctrine of the Apostles I leaue to the readers iudgement what estimacion they had off them and how the D. woulde abuse vs that drawethe the sentences of the cheif in this coÌ„fession to proue their conuenieÌ„ce Neither do I dowbt but that our Archebishops and Bishops refusing to ioyne with the rest off the churches in this confession did it because they could not digest this morsell especiall Now to come to the D. that saith Epiphanius calleth vs heretickes which pinchethe vs. master Wickleue and the pore Waldenses bare yt at Pigghius hand we must do yt at the D. in dede so muche more pinching as yt commethe from him from whom yt least owght But what remedy the Lord will looke to it in time Howbeit because this arrow is as yt is said of Epiphanius a man subiecte to error shot owt off Pigghius bow one giuen vpp to error hauing no heade off the worde of God to make yt enter yt may peraduenture raise the skin but wounde yt can not make But Augustine reckenethe yt so but Augustine reporteth what he found written for towching his owne iudgement he is flat against Epiphanius which maketh a bishop aÌ„d an elder differ by the Apostels institution wheras Augustin as I haue shewed teacheth euen as Ierome that this difference was not by the word of God but by custome now I would know of the D. how Augustin can houlde that for an heresie which to leaue the rest can not be conuinced by the word off God but onely by a custome off the churche And here first he must either let goe his hould of Ierome or this of Epiphanius For if yt be trw that Epiphanius houldeth that a bishop and an elder differ by the Apostels institution then it is false which Ierome and others hould that they were all one at the first and that the difference came by custome Contrariwise if Ierome in that point say true as in dede he dothe then Epiphanius authoritie falleth Secondly yf the D. will preiudice this cause for that Epiphanius a Catholike thowght them to differ by the word off God where Aerius an heretike thowght them all one or els in that Augustin reckeneth that amongest his heresies by the same reason he must preiudice this trwthe that we owght not to praie or make any oblation for the dead For both Epiphan estemed him an heretike for his iudgement in that behalfe and Augustin reporteth this as one off his heresies which is catholike doctrine So that Pigghius might vse this autoritie better which condemnethe as well the one as the other then the D. which houldethe as I thincke for Catholike that which Aerius the hereticke affirmed and for hereticall which Epiphanius the Catholike condemned The flower off Epiphanius reasons browght before is answered now the D. distressed bringeth forth tag aÌ„d rag for towching Epiphanius saying the bishop by imposition off handes begetteth fathers 1. teachers to the churche vvhere the priestes begate onely sonnes yt is but asking off that in question when Aerius holding them both one by Gods institution the imposition off handes belonging vnto the bishop muste
word and to hould cōmon consultation that therfore he estemed the whole dioces off London or Prouince off Canterbury where there are many thowsand parishes might conueniently grow into one particular bodie to be gouerned off one Pastor Truly this is but kolde reasoning Where I charged him with vnfaithefull dealing for leauing ovvt that vvvich Caluin noteth that the office off Archbis and Patriarck vvas rarely vsed to couer his vnfaithfullnes he alledgeth the later edition which hathe not that sentence Which is partly answered before but ad this also that euen the noted booke which he followed had thus muche off that sentence Althovvghe it may not be passed by in this disputation There wanted onely this it vvas very rarely vsed and that throwghe the printers fault considering that withowt yt there is no sence nor knot with that before or after Therfore if there had bene any loue of the trwthe in hym meeting with suche a gap he would haue sowght to haue made yt vpp in the later edition His shift Calu referrethe that to the patriarcke and not to the Archbishop because ther was smale cause off exercising his authoritie is onely said and in deede cōtrary to thanthors wordes ād meaning Wordes for that giuing that note off his disputation there which is bothe off the Archbishop and Patriarke yt muste follow by all likelihoode that the note also is of them bothe Against his meaning manifestly for he placing both their offices in propounding matters vnto the Synodes which for their hardnes could not be ended of few and gyuing them nothing to doo more then their fellowes but that it muste follow that the oftenest Synodes wherin the archbishop was president being rare and but twise a yeare his office also was off very rare vse Wherby appeareth that Caluins minde was to shew that the archbishops and Patriarches office endured onely but the time off the Synode which ended he had no autoritie but in commen with other bishops vntill the next synode So that althowgh they were not chosen at euery action yet Caluins iudgement standeth that both those offices were but off rare vse The D. onely trifleth in Hemingius For we affirme degrees off ministrie off the word graunt also that there were Patriarches but denie them to haue bene immediatly after the Apostles which Hemingius doth not as he vntruly saith affirme That that church abolishing the Patriarch and Archbishop kept the distinction betwene the bishop an other ministers off the word which the church browght in is confessed but that it owght not so to be is before declared althowgh the bishops there in respect off the height off ours are but dwarfes His answer to that Hemingius saith that S. Luke 22. putteth a difference betvvene the office off a Magistrat and ministers and that dominion is altogether takē avvay from these is very fonde His reason owt off the Hebr. is before answered so that his vnfaithfull dealing in Hemingius remaineth Yf there be no circunstance in M Fox alledged by the D. which gyue further answer I stand to that before made and refer it to the readers iudgement especially seing to that alledged where M. Fox flatly condemneth the degrees off primates metropolitanes and archbishops as ambicious the D. can not answer In saying he vvent about to corrupt him vvith his praise I doo M. Fox no iniurie yt being no fault to be assaulted but to be ouercome Whether I doo the D. any let the reader iudge The maintenance of the reply to the Bishop off Salisb answer towching certein Articles against the D. Chap. 4. Diuis 1. pag. 422. THat the Bishop is directly against the D. in affirming that there be no Apostles Euangelistes or Prophetes ys manifest his shift wherewith he would accord him self with the bishop is is before bewraied That the taking away off the Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes hindreth not the perfect nomber off preaching ministers hath bene declared beside that yt is grosse to say that the diuision is not perfect because certein partes of it are not now extant as if the law of deuiding extended not it self to thinges both past and to come He that parteth the church into that before and vnder the Gospell doth he therfore make an euill particion because there is now no church before the Gospell that is vnder or before the law Here the D. leaueth the bishop to his owne defense towching that he affirmed a bishop not conteined in the place to the Ephes The diuision there being giuen as hath beue saied off those ministers onely vvhich vvith gouernement handle the vvord both here and in the fift diuision the D. doth but trifle in the examples off the elder and deacon seing we hould and will God willing shewe them not to haue to doo with the word Wher hereuppon he woulde bring in his archbishop and archdeacon yt is but repetition off that before where he hath āswer Yf there be a preaching elder not cōteined vnder a Pastor seing he maketh a Pastor and Doctor all one onles he fly to his phansie off Apostles c. there is by his saying a preaching ministerie not tawght in the scripture If there be let him shew it Where I gaue the Catechising vnto the Pastor I will haue it ment where there is no Doctor otherwise I haue in the second edition amended that assigning yt as more proper to the D. So that the Doctor being instituted to the Ephes he whom they called Catechist which tawght the groundes off religion ys likewise albeit S. Pa. calleth al māner of preaching Cathechising That publike reading in the church is as solēne a matter as Catechising the youth is a peece off the former phrensie reading is as good as preaching already confuted That a reader hath bene counted necessarie is saied withowt proof and if it were it was falsly counted there being no necessarie ministrie not specified in the scripture And when they were first notwithstanding them the church ministrie was as hath bene shewed deuided into bishops elders and deacons so that they came not then so much as into account of the ministries Yf they be conuenient at any time that there is scripture to warrant them euen as the Sexten that kept the church dore key hath bene shewed That the archbishops archdeacons and our bishops haue no succour by this being supposed the principalest ministeries and therfore such as owght to haue bene commaunded hath bene likewise disputed where thes colewortes are answered That the Deaconship as I take yt is no gouernement but a simple seruice is idly alledged cōtrary to nothing here set downe Yt may seeme against that alledged before where I comprehend it under the ministers which gouerne onely which I did not to set it in the same kinde off gouernement with the elders but for that yt ordering the church money and ouerseing the poore might in a generall signification be so called If the D. can
the name I driue it to the office If he had bene awake he should haue perceiued that the same reason I assigned why there was primacie in the ministrie off the law vnmeet for ours serueth also to shew why they might haue the title off Princes which ours may not For being the counseil of God in that superioritie to peint forth the chieftie off our Sauiour Christ it was moste conuenient that that shoulde be also written in the names Where I shewed the distribution off the Leuites offices not made off Dauid but by expresse commaundement off God he saith the Bishop hath answered that such negatiue argumentes are but weake So hee bringeth him in answering this reason after his death for in his life it was not propounded Howbeit I haue shewed how the argument holdeth and that the D. shift is Hardinges against the bishop confuted also by the bishop Nether did the bishop condemne here simply negatiue reasons but that negatiue which supposed there owght to be no name of archbishop because there was none vnder the law which he might worthely For I shewed that we meane nothing lesse then to conclude that of the precise gouernement off the churche vnder the law Nether is mine an argument off one example but of cōparison For if Dauid a figure off our S. Christ a man after Gods owne hart a Prophet would not meddle with altering any thing in the ministries withowt Gods word what man is he that shall dare doo yt withowt the same warrant By the Printers small ouersight in putting 1. for 2. the D. hath stumbled vpon a notable place that Iosaphat apointed Leuites c. for deciding the Lordes causes not onely in Ierusalē but for the whole countrey and made Amaries the priest chief ouer them yet no commaundement red of so to doo Which is vntrw For Iosaphat did nothing but commaunded off the Lord by Moses that there be in Ierusalem an Ecclesiasticall Senate wherof the high priest should be chief vnto which they should resort in difficult cases not able to be voided at home For otherwise there was a Senate erected by Iosaphat in euery strong cytie off Iury. The Ievves church vvanted nothing to that perfection vvherin the Lord vvould haue it then and many thinges vvere vndecided by the expresse vvord off God be friendes and doo well agree For both the perfection of yt then as ours now standeth if thinges cōstāt defined vpō there be also generall rules left in his word wherby thinges variable by circumstances may be compassed In the next reason for causes there assigned I will procede no further but leaue it onely to the readers iudgement likewise whether I haue shewed that there were vniuersities amongest Gods people before our S. Christes time and whether the D. if he had wherewithall woulde not contrarie it That Schooles are ciuill in heathenish commen wealthes and Ecclesiasticall in Christian is poore diuinity for so a Schoolemaster teaching Terēce or Professor reading Aristotle is become an Ecclesiasticall officer which hath nether ecclesiasticall election not ordinaciō and is often chosen onely of him that founded the Schoole Yea euery one that reacheth to play on instrumētes wherby mē may be apter to sing the lordes praises is one off the D. Eeclesiasticall officers His reason schooles are like the first nources of the true knowledge off God ys not good For beside that the Fathers howse is the first nource not the schoole by this reason the Father off the howshold that nourtereth his sonnes yea the mother that bringeth vp her dawghters in the feare off God shoulde be ecclesiasticall officers which are onely oeconomicall or house gouernours That bishops can not come in place off thapostles seing they were together with the Apostles is vnanswered That the D. alledgeth off Apostles being bishops is b before answered althowgh it be nothing to purpose for to haue confuted the replie he shoulde haue shewed that all bishops are Apostles where his places be to proue Apostles bishops For it followeth not if all Apostles were bishops that all bishops should be Apostles Where I shew that Archbishops could not come in place off Apostles if they vvere as Erasmus supposeth in their time because they should so preuent the time not vvayting for the Apostels death he answereth where the apostels could not be them selues there they appointed other which is fond For how followeth it that because they appointed others where they could not be them selues therfore they appointed archbishops As if they might not appoint Euangelistes or in euery particular church a Bishop Off Bishops appointed by the Apostles to conclude Archbis I haue shewed how sikly it is likewise how that bishops being the Apostles successours is to be vnderstanded Against my reasons that there is more libertie in instituting thinges in the commen vvealth here is nothing but bare denials In answering generally off all offices in the commen wealth a man not vtterly forsaken off his iudgement muste needes know that I had answered the example off Saul The answer to Chrysostome ys made before Where I shew that Titus presidentship in ordination off bishops implieth not perpetuall gouernement if it did yet not to helpe the archbishop yt is the D. part to shew that iudgement and gouernement be all one seing he imagineth it a staffe off his cawse But the reader may see that allthowgh the D. kepe open shop still yet his wares are vttered long sythens For I besech yow in this defense off the bishops answer besides his owne colewortes and bare repeticion off the Bishops reasons with some yeas and naes what hath he worthy the inuention of the meanest To the next diuis Further then I haue I will not answer the next also I leaue to the readers iudgement THe Councell off Antioch repeted here with the commentary is answered Where I shew no neede vvith vs of archbishops considering that the cause vvhy they vvere ordeined to call Synodes and propoūd the cavvses to be hādled in thē is ceassed vvith vs ▪ the D. in prouing that Emperours called generall Councells shooteth fayre but cometh nothing nere the mark For althowgh some prouinciall Councells were called by the Emperour yet yt is manifest both by the Coūcell of Nice and by this I alledged that decreed there should be 2. prouinciall Councels euery yeare wherin the Metropolitan should giue vvarning to the rest that the bishops might not hould a coūcell withowt his knowledge that the Metropolitan vvith the bishops aduise might hould a Prouinciall Councell It was doen I graunt by consent and sometime by expresse confirmacion off the Godly Princes as in other thinges perteining to the ministery their autoritie assisted when men refused to come to the bishops who were not able to compell them but the order off it vvas with the Bishops This althowgh it were not in the 9. canon yet whē the D. knew it was in that
b Diuis 9. pag. 442. c Councel Neocaesar d Possido in vita August Instit 4. l. ca. 4. 3 se vpon the eight coÌ„ â–ª maund a in the praef to the 3. ca. of this tr b vpon Phil. ca. 1. c 2. cap. off this tra Diuis 15. pag 445. Euse li. 1. de vit Const a Athana Apol. 2. b Costerius in the life off Ambro. c IeroÌ„ ad Rusticum Monach. d 1. Cor. 10 e Ier. vpon Titus Ier ad Oceanum f Di. 16. 17 pag. 446. g 4. carth 14. 15. ca. Tyron c. 5 Pag. 471 â–ª In the booke intituled the Discipline c. a 4. conc Cart. c. 32 Sozom. lib. 3. c. 9. Athanas 2. Apol. b August Epist â—0 a Possido invit Au. b Roma cap â–ª 3. c vpoÌ„ the eight coÌ„maund a Cal. inst 4. lib ca. â— sect 17. a M. Fox in the boke off M. Tindal c. b VpoÌ„ the 8. coÌ„maund c M. Elm. d 473. e Possid in vit August f Ad NepotianuÌ„ opa 472. â— pag. 83. pag. 200. pag. 473. Pag. 473 Conc. Ty roÌ„ 3 can 5. pag. 473. Diuis 18. pag. 447. Cart. c 34 Iud. 8. v. Diuis 19. pag. 447. Euseb 7. li. ca. 30. Ruffin 1. lib. ca. 19. Athana Apol. 2. Diuis 20. pag. 448. Ioh. 20. 1â— Theod li. 5. cap. 8. Socr. li. â— cap. 6. Diuis 21. pag 449. a 1. Tim. 3 â— c Vpon the 8. coÌ„maund Ierom. ad Nepot Diuis 22. pag. 450. Diuis 23. 24. 25. pag. 451. 1. Tim. 6. 6. 8. vpon 4. Ephes Diuis 26. pag. 452. CAP. VI. Pag. 454. 1. Cor. 4. 1. Diuis 4. pag. 455. * Tract 1. Diui. 6. pag. 457. a Diui. 15. pag. 367. vpon the Ephes e Diu. 42. pag. 390. Diuis 7. pag. 458. 1. Cor. 15. 9. Diuis 10. pag. 461. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diui. 11. pag. 462. Heb. 5. 5. 6 a Diu. 31. pag. 380. Diuis 33. Pag. 381. b Diu. 14. pag. 465. c Diu 32 pag. 381. Diuis 41. pag. 389. d Diui. 33. pa. 381. e di 1617. pag. 467. f Diu. 41. pag. 389. a Diu 43. pag. 390. Diuis 50. pag. 396. Diuis 70. pag 417. b Diu. 18. pag. 469. Iohn 3. 8. a d 70. 71 pag. 4. 7. b â— Tract c in the 2. and 3. ca. off this Tract d di 16. 17 pag. 446 Throwgh desire off making no great chaunge off the order laid forth by the Doctor vvherby the reader should be muche troubled in collatioÌ„ of our bokes and partly for that my papers vvent so sone to the printâ— vvherby I could not correct that my self aftervvard misliked at is come to pas that there are diuers thinges vvherin by order it might haue bene better prouided for memory VVhich I haue partly endeuoured to help by this direction vvherby yt shall not be vneasy to finde any off the principal pointes conteined in this book THe scripture is a perfect rule off all actions which can fall into maÌ„s life aswell in defining thinges vnnariable as in giuing rules wherby thinges variable by circunstance may be compassed page lvij c. Whether refer that wherin is shewed what of Moses law remaineth page xciij Likewise that the Actes of thapostles are necessary for vs to folow page clv. As appeareth namely in the gouernement off the church disputed throwghowt the whole book and in that communitie they vsed which is not now Anabaptisticall cc. viij Hether also refer that yt is the vertue off a good law to leaue as litle as may be in the discretion off the iudge xciiij Also that yt ys one thing to be expressed and an other to be commaunded in the scripture xlv Wherupon the argument off autoâ—â—â—ie off the scripture is good 43. 81 But nawght from men especially in diuine matters xviij and xlvij Whether refer that the Godly writers and holie martyre died in error vj. Wheroff the example browght by me off free will is handled 54. an other browght by the D. off the millenaries althowgh he in part slaundereth the ould fathers in that behalf delij Discipline Ciuil THe magistrat ought to be seuerer in punishing offeÌ„ces vnder the gospell then vnder the law cxj. cxviij Neglecters off the word are punishable by the word lxx The law off capitall punishements remaineth xcviij Contemners off the word ought to be put to death lxviij Murtherers cij Incestuous and adulterous persons c. The punishing off the breaches off the second Table by death and not off the first is to begin at the wrong end cxvij Discipline Ecclesiasticall THe Ecclesiasticall discipline is prescribed in the word as the doctrine ccccxl Aswell vnder the gospell as vnder the law ibid. Amplified by comparison off the Ark Tabernacle Temple ccccxliiij Confirmed by examples off Dauid and Salomon which attempted nothing in the church gouernement without the expres word off God ccccxliiij Also off others lxxxvj That the form theroff owght not to be allwaies according to the forme off the coÌ„mon wealth cxxx clix ccxcviij dciiij That yt ys not allwaies conuenient that the form of the commen wealth should beframed to the form off the churche gouernement ccxxvij That the churche gouernement is one off the three markes off the church liij That yt is safely taken from the Apostels times and dauÌ„gerously from the first 500. yeares after them That the externall gouernement off the church is euill distinguished from the spiritual That yt hindereth not the ciuil discipline ij Calling THe callinges vnâ—â— the mynistery are defined off in the word of god For tha 〈◊〉 â— giftes necessary for the gouernement off the church fall into the offices prescribed in yt 462. Where are rehersed the proper giftes wherby they are seuered amoÌ„gest theÌ„ selues This is also shewed by that it is not lawfull to diminish those the lord hath set and therfore not to ad vnto them cccclxiiij Likewise by the demaunde the Pharisies made vnto Iohn ccccxxxvj A calling lawfull and yet extraordinary page xxxâ—â—j The Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes are euil distinguished by the D. cccvij There can be none off these functions now withowt an extraordinary calling ccciij The same coulde not be a bishop Euangelist and Apostle at once cccxviij Epaphroditus was no Apostle in that sense that S. Peter was ccciiij An Euangelist could not withowt his fault be made a bishop much les could an Apostle 321. Timothe was an Euangelist and no bishop cccxij The abusing off the writers both ould and nue to proue Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes ordinary ministers cccxxvij What maner a men they were which after those sent foorth into the whole world called them selues Apostles cccviij Hereupon we refuse the callinges of Archbishop otherwise called MetropolitaÌ„ and our kinde of bishop ArchdeacoÌ„ and deane as those which taken euen for the very principall church officers haue no ground in the word of God Proued in that they are conteined in nether of the places off the Ephesians or Corinthians where al the ministeries Ecclesiasticall are
described cccâ—xlix ccccliij Whether refer that the archbishop and bishop are nue ministeries ccccxxxviij Likewise that the first step to this kind off bishoprik began at Alexandria and not in Sion or Ierusalem and that it was after the Apostles times dxlviij Also the first step of preheminence to an archbishoprik ouer many bishops was but a litle before the Nicene Councel cccclxxxv That both this bishop and archbishop had their beginning by bare custome and not by the institution off God cccclxxxv dlxviij These two last pointes being expreslie shewed off the bishops and archbishops may be easely vnderstanded to be true in the Archdeacons and deanes by that dj dxxxvj diiij Yt ys further shewed off the archbishop that hâ— was not in steed of Archflamins instituted by S. Peter as 〈◊〉 pretended cccclxix Where is shewed that there were no Arâ—â—â—lamins vnder the Romain Empire cccclxxj not in England especially in the time supposed cccclxxij We refuse them also for that they exercise dominion Forbidden precisely vnto Ecclesiasticall persons 20. Mat. and 1 â–ª Pet. 5. ccccxxj ccccxxxj Declared in the example off S. Peter which had no autoritie giuen him aboue the rest off the Apostles but was in such respect equall dcvij Here are confuted the endes off instituting this autoritie Whereoff one is pretended to assemble rhe Synodes and to propound the matters dcxij dlxxxij Wherto belongeth that of those otherwise equall it is meet to auoid confusion that one by choise of the rest should rule the action and that yt is not meet that this should be perpetuall ccccxxij Which is conâ—â—â—ed by the example off S. Peter chosen therto by the Apostles and not perpetually dcxcvij made plaine by the examples off the elder and french churches now dxiâ—x The other pretended cause is to remedie contentions ccccxlvâ—ij â–ª dxlix dl dlxxiâ—ij dlxxxij Here also is shewed that he is the cause off contention dlxxix Which being shewed in the bishop and archbishop perteineth in part also to the archdeacon and deane Further against this dominion serueth that they are fellow seruantes fellow brethren in office ccccxx viij dxlv Also for that order and degrees stand withowt them ccccxxvij dcij This ys further declared by comparison of the elder archbishops and bishops with ours dxciiij dcxliiij Namely of Cyprians dxlvj and Ieroms dlxviij Likewise of the elder Archdeacons with ours dij And deanes with ours diiij That the Nicene Councell is far from mainteining the autoritie off our metropolitan dlxij So are the Councels off Antioch and Arles dlxv That Epiphanius Archbishop stood not in autoritie but in excellency off giftes dlx Here vpon we condemn as in all Ecclesiasticall ministers so in these foure al loftie titles as those which are annexed to dominion Wherunto perteineth that names are not alwaies indiffereÌ„t 408 And first the giuing high titles of ciuil honour as those which put a differeÌ„ â—â— betwene the ciuil aÌ„d ecclesiast officer ccccvj ccccxxiij As forbid â–ª 〈◊〉 precisely 22. Luk. cccciiij namely that the bishop Archbishops â—nd by the same reason deanes ought not to be called lordes hauing regard to the vse of our contrey ccccvij dclv Also that the title off Prince part off the Archbishops and Archdeacons name breaketh vpon the possession off the ciuil magistrate ccccvij Secondly in Ecclesiasticall titles we denie vnto them to be called heades off the churches Where is shewed first that that title agreeth vnto no simple creature The causes wheroff are ccccxij The absurdities which folow the giuing off it to any other then to our San. Christ ccccxj The approbation off writers nue and ould that he is onely head ccccxiij The same shewed off the name off Archbishop cccix Hetherto belongeth that it was not so sone in the west partes as in the East ccccxciiij That yt is not shewed to haue bene giuen to any but with condemning off yt in any alowed writer vntill about 380. yeares ccccxcv Wherto perteineth that nue writers gyuing yt to ministers of elder times are shewed to haue doen it according to the times wherin not whereoff they wrote cccclxxxj ccccxcv Likewise that the name metropolitan is not off the same value with archbishop cccclxxxvij And that it is not shewed to haue bene before the Councell off Nice ccccxciiij Also that the Councels off Carthage houlden about ccl and 400. yeares doe forbid this name ccccxcviij Finally hether perteineth that off the counterfait canons off the Nicene Councell handled cccclxxxviij And the counterfait book off Ambrose which mentioneth the archbishop ccccxcj Likewise the name of Arch deacon is not shewed vntill about 400. yeares page 502. Nor off the deane vntill about the same time page diiij Furthermore vpon this that dominion is forbidden them is also forbiddeÌ„ their other pomp off lije Wherof vnto the three causes assigned in my former book xcviij Is added the fourth â—â—0 off this book This ys shewed by comparison off the elder bishops with ours in their apparel houses houshould stuf fare traine off men dcxlxij c. Further that the most part off the riches wherwith this pomp is mainteined is the commen treasure off the church for mainteinance off the miâ—sters which want off the poore and off the vniuersities and th … in this point they haue succeded vnto those which got the 〈◊〉 sacriledge dcxlix Further we refuse the archbishop and archdeacon for that they haue larger charges then they are or can be sufficient for Hetherto perteineth that all the ordinary ministers owght to be appointed to a place and that that place is a particular congregacion no diocese nor prouince ccxcvj ccclx Where the D. corruption drawen from the Papistes is confuted Hether also perteineth that Denis did not deuide parishes Prouinces and dioceses ccclviij Hether also perteineth that by the word off God there may and owght if the case require be moe bishops in one particular congregation â—â—n one dxxvij The traces theroff in the church long after the Apostles time page dxxviij dlâ—â— Likewise that there owght by the word off God to be in euery particular congregation one bishop dxv Hether refer the causes off the falling away of this order which were naught dxx Likewise that care ouer churches inferreth not necessarily charge ouer them dcxxij That the iurisdiction they had owt off their particuler churches was nothing but a reuerend estimation page dxxxij Hetherto perteineth the vse off the church long after the Apostels times ccc Also that the elder bishops were called bishops off parishes cccclxxvâ—ij The examples off Demetrius dxlij off Cyprians bishop aâ—most through the whole 3. chapter off the last Tra. off Cornelius 540. 556. of Dionysius Alexandrinus 558 Gregorie 5â—9 Peter Alexandrinus â—60 Athanasius 56â— Ambrose 492. Al which alledged by the D. as bishops off prouinces were ether of one particular church or off the churches in one onely ciâ—â—e or at the least had far les compas by the twentith part then our bishops This
The second replie of Thomas Cartwright agannst Maister Doctor Whitgiftees second answer touching the Churche Discipline Isay 62. vers 1. For Syons sake I will not hould my tonge and for Ierusalems sake I will not reste vntill the righteousnes therof break forth as the light and the saluation therof be as a burning lampe Ibid. vers 6. 7. Ye that are the Lordes remembrancers kepe not silence and gyue him no rest vntill he repaire and set vp Ierusalem the praise off vvorld Imprinted M. D. LXXV To the Churche off England and all that Loue the trueth in yt Thomas Cartwright Wisheth mercy and peace from God our Father and from our Lorde Iesus Christe THe Church off God so ofte vs scripture not compared onely but figured in the Citie Ierusalem serueth for instruction in this cause For as in yt the wal first broken downe was last made vp againe and that more then 14. yeares after the temple builded so is yt commenly in the spirituall wal off the churche whiche is the discipline the lorde appointed aswel for strenght of yt as for houlding out of all aduersarie power whether yt be corruption off doctrine or manners The first is to be seen in the Act. of thapostles where after the churches gathered by preaching there was an eldership seuerally placed in them to whom the execution of the church discipline doth especially appertain The other may as easily appear to him that considereth the estate off the churche after the Apostles by monuments off those times in which allwaies as this fort off gouernement left by them was first suffred to decaie so the purenes of doctrine decreased vntill the churche yt selfe except a few stones here and there scattered was browght to heapes off dust Yf yâ— be asked why the discipline hauing right to entre with the doctrine findeth not alwaies that fauour amongest men The cause â—s apparant that when Satan can not gain this first point to houlde the doctrine owt off a city or Kingdome he sweareth after the second that yt may be there with smallest fruict and shortest continuance Wherin let I beseche yow be considered his doings against the building off the wal off Ierusalem For if he bestirred himself so in hindering that materiall wal it wil be les meruaile yf for hinderance off this spirituall he trudge to and fro open his whole pack off subtilties and as yt is in prouerb bestovv both â—vet and dry And first touching the persons he vseth in his fight against both they are not much vnlike For in steed off a bastard kinde off Israelites Apostataes from God and his tru seruice which were there the foreine enemies we haue now the Papistes who as shal appear he set in the forward of this battail against the discipline now propounded And as now we haue within the church whiche couered with the name off the gospel and off the teachers theroff giue a more daungerous assault then the Papistes So were there then euen off the Iewes them selues vnder gouerners and Prophetes which secretly and openly opposed them selues As for the practises they are so like in bothe that all which will open their eies maie easely espie the same workeman For as the enemies then placed their cheef strenght in accusations against the church that yf it vvere suffered to laie the foundacioÌ„s of the vval it vvould moue seditioÌ„ and rebel against the Kinge euen so our aduersary to arme the Prince against this cause soundeth nothing more then rebellion sedition and suche like Yf this were not able to discrie or at least to giue warning off this vnfaithfull dealing yet this may That these are the verie weapons off the papistes which not able amongest vs with so great succes to be vsed by them selues as those which are knowne enemies haue bene ministred to the D. that being throwne owte off his hand in whose mouthe is the gospell they might be thowght to haue bene made for defence which were forged for ouerthrow of yt For where Brentius teacheth that the ministers owght not to beare dominion ouer the churches like princes Hosius accuseth him that by the same meane he vvent about to displace Caesar And vpon like occasion that vve vvould ouerthrovv al kingdomes and superiority that men might doe vvat they liste That yf the Almans had once shaken off the Pope they vvould shake off Caesar sone after Yf these be compared with diuers off the D. accusations and namely with that page 455. lin 1. yt will be meruail that onles he were in this point taught by the same spirit Hosius was he could iump so euen not onely with the like accusation but almost with the same wordes But this shall better appeare in discours off this boke where ys shewed not onely that he hathe the like but the verie self same cause with the grossest Papistes I say the grossest for that in some pointes as off the churches election and pastorall residence there are found off them more fauorable to the trwth then he which ioining with Catholike writers both ould and of our time haue written against the estate off the Popish churche in that behalf And that no mans simplicity be abused by an owtward profession off the gospell as thowgh yt were vnlike that they which professed yt should be enimies to the trwe discipline or vncredible that the same whiche cry out off the Tyranny off Antechrist shoulde refuse the moderat and wholsom gouernement of Christ yt may please them to vnderstand that this cause hathe before this bydden the assault not off the Papistes alone but euen off them which make shew off so deadly war with papistry that the greatest force of their resistance hathe bene a feare ether pretended or vainly phansied least the gyuing place to the discipline shoulde draw after yt the popishe Tyranny Capito a man off singuler learning and godlines affirmeth that it was obiected vnto them whiche vvente about to restore the discipline that they vvould be Tyrans ouer the churche vvhich vvas free and cal back againe a nvve popedome M. Bucer SataÌ„ goeth about that by restoring of the discipline the faithfull Ministers should be thovvght to seek ambitously the same Tyranny vvhich Antechrist did M. Beza vvhen the Eldership and excoÌ„municatioÌ„ vvere to be instituted there vvaÌ„ted not vvhich cried ovvt that the popish tyranny vvas by that meanes called back again also that the magistrats office vvas therby in parte inuaded Now if these slaunders be compared with the Answerers al may vnderstand that althowgh the instrments vsed against the discipline vary in tyme and countrie yet the autor misleading some by simplicitie and thrusting other headlong throwgh couetousnes or ambition ys the same in our countrey which was then in Germany Fraunce or Sanoy For that the discipline now propounded is the same whiche suffered this coÌ„tradiction off certein professors off the Gospell shall manifestly appear in this discours and may be
wal abowt the citie or hedg about the orcheiard Yf we thinck that men vvhiche vvoulde be safe from their enemies need not greatly to trauail after a wal or they which vvould haue their tender plantes bring plentifull fruict and be vntowched off hurfull beastes not muche to labour after a hedg or diche for safegarde of them then we may also thinck that the church and the doctrine of the Apostels wherupon the church is builded may long continw and florish vvithowt the discipline lefte by them But if the one be not to be looked for the hoping for the other will but deceiue vs Whereof if there were no proof but our own experience the case is clearer then can be wel denied For vvhereof cometh it that so many thowsandes I will not say of men and women but of townes and villages remain in suche ignorance of all dutie towards God and their neighbour that the estate off their ox vvhiche vvith his last breath shal end his labour and hear no more the voice of the whip is a thousand times better then theirs vvhom euerlasting tomentes of body and sowl vvait for and must assuredly ensue if they so remaine Cometh it not hereof that in steed of a learned ministery vvhiche shoulde shewe them the right way be thrust vppon them at the pleasure or permission off the bishop and appetite off the patrone blinde guides vvhich scarce knowe a foot of it them selues yea which sometimes as cometh to pas in sondry popishe priestes that remaine endeuour to turn them out off the way if happily any were entred Wheroff cometh it that off those which haue able ministers to feed them diuers townes can not yet get owt of this condēnation ys it not thereof that some pastors like couetous nourses charging them selues with moe then they are able to nource suffer them all to starue that other some more vnnaturall then the dragons them selues which laie owt their brestes vnto their yong by dispensation turn awaie their faces quite from them whose mouthes are almost neuer open to teache but vvhen their handes are likewise to receiue And if some in a good intent to help many lend one hande to one congregation and his other vnto another yet when ether of them require both handes to be pulled owt off the mire wherin they stick so fast his fault being a great deal les then the others the peoples condemnation remaineth the same Wheroff also ys y◠that in diuers off those Townes where the gospell hath daily shined the darcknes of ignorance hath not bene put to flight Cometh yt not thoroff that many speaking smally to purpose off the text they handle or blowing vp their sermons ether with poetes fables sayinges off Philosophers and that oft in straunge language amaze them rather with a wōndermēt of their learning then edifie thē in faith and trw repentance And not that onely but therby also bring them owt of al tast with all simple and plain kind off teaching so that they which doe not so are called by reproche English Doctors Which by oftē meetings of the ministers in exercice off Prophecie or interpretacion of some scripture through mutual censures and admonitions would easely be remedied Wheroff is it that euen vvhere the gospel is soundly and abūdandly taught knowledg hath not accordingly folowed Ys it not therof that the principles and groundes of religiō are not by Catechism laid forth that those of whose ether capacity or diligēce yt is doubted are not that a supply may be made particulerly examined Wheroff cometh yt that Arians Valentinians and Anabaptistes in diuers sortes with suche other detestable heretikes are so rife in many places of the land Ys it not therof that there is no eldership which might assist the pastor to espie them out no pastorable by substancial reasons to conuince them no autoritie there to decide of them or after decision by ecclesiasticall censures to punish them Wheroff cometh yt that horrible blaspheming the holy and most reuerend name of God quarreling and fighting dronckennes filthy speaking fornicatiō adultery slaundering and suche like run ouer almost in euery place off which some are so open that there is no night or corners sowght to hid them but are doen in the high streates and at noon daies yea which is fearful that often there is more daunger to them that reproue these faultes then to those which cōmit them Ys it not hereof that there is no eldership to watche ouer these offences to admonish the offenders and by ecclesiasticall censures to correct them Wheroff cometh it that in so many excellent lawes prouided against roges and beggers there are yet to the manifest breach of the law of God and hasard of the commen wealth such nombers Ys it not heroff that the office off Deacons which god had ordeined for that purpose the bare name remaining is abolished and that the Lord will giue no blessing to those good lawes because his order is neglected Finally hereof it cometh that hauing a gracious Prince mainteining and her honorable Counsall fauoring the preaching of the gospell in so long and quiet peace apt for the furtherance off yt there is notwithstanding so smal fruict that sauing a few which the lord hath gathered for the generall estate of the Realme the Gospell may seem hetherto rather to haue shined for further condemnation of it then for light or heat of saluation ioined therwith what price therfore we set of the glory off God what accompt we make off the saluacion of our countrey that estimacion we must kepe off the discipline off God left vnto vs by his holy Apostels This if it were deeply weighed it would cause vs to breakthrowgh the lets which I see stay some and make other some to faint in the furtherance of this cause For some whiche desire that this cause might gaine throwgh a mind abhorring from contention especially inward an with them of the same religion stande further of from yt then otherwise they would Wherin I willingly acknowledge Rebeccas affection a figure off the churche off god For notwithstanding she praied vnto the lord for children yet feeling them striue within her Womb wished she had neuer conceiued But alas the state off men is not so happy to obteine any excellent thing without strift Errors and falshood haue often times easy entrance whilest the husbandmen sleep but because the ennemy alwaies waketh the trweth must fight or euer she can get any thing wherin to pas by an infinite number of examples that which is proper to this place off the daungerous assaultes which this cause suffered at Geneua ys worthy off your consideration For albeit the contention there was not in Iudgement onely and in wordes but with great disorders and tumultes to the present daunger off the citie yet M. Caluin and other faithfull seruantes of God offred them selues not onely to los off their ministery and banishment but euen to death rather then
vse vnlawfull And especially in the tenth chapter he confuteth the verie selfe same reason which the A. towieth so roundlie with in this place which was that for so muche as the eatinge at the Idolles feast was but an owtward thing and went no farther then to the bellie therfore it was indifferent to be vsed or left at a mans discretion So the place then the which their is none stronger in the whole bodie off the Scripture to bind and kepe in the lauishe vse off Christian libertie that the A callendgeth for the enlarging of it betonde the boundes that God hathe set in his word And wheras he saith that S. Paule declareth their contentions which seperate them selues from the church for externall thinges S. Paule maketh no mention there either off contention or diuision from the church neither in deed they which abused then their libertie contended withe the weaker but contemned them Also off deuiding them selues from the church in that place is not a worde who soeuer will reade those places with a litle diligence shall easely perceiue that this is the matter which the Apostle giueth owt in that place As touching externall thinges for which the church of Christ may not contend they are suche as there being no commaundement of God directlie to vse them or not to vse them are left in the discretion of the faithful to be ordered the most to Godes glorie and edifiyng one off an other therfore as I thinke termed off learned writers externall for that they come not vnto the conscience nor bind not yt For otherwise that difference off externall and internall thinges is not sufficient to giue to vnderstand which are thinges indifferent or vnindifferent For neither are all externall thinges left to our discretion as I haue shewed and there are some internall thinges as off certeine inward thowghtes and opinions which are not imputed vnto vs for synne whether side soeuer we thinke or iudge of them As if I thinke in my selfe that there was neuer suche a Hector or Achilles or troye as is described off Homere and virgill I sinne not and if I thincke there was neither is that imputed vnto me for synne But these thinges which be in controuersie seing we offer to proue them commaunded and necessarie by the word off God how commeth it to passe that yow lashe owt so manie places owt off Bullinger and Zuinglius against those which trouble the church for indifferent thinges as thowghe yow had alreadie gotteÌ„ that which yow confesse by and by to be in triall that these things which we demaund are not necessarie What order of iudgement is this first to giue iudgement or euer the cause be heard iff yow will needes be bothe partie and Iudge at least yow should haue saued these vntill yow haue as yow promised shewed the vntreweth off our cause And therfore hereafter as often as yow doo importunatelie and vnstill fully heape so many places togither yow shall haue for answere â— plaine blancke To the 16. sect pa. 14. WHether yow haue either scripture or godlie learned author for your warrant in your assertions partely hath bene alreadie shewed and more shall appeare But yow must learne that the part of a faithfull teacher in the church of god is neither to propound any thing to the church neither to reiecte that which is propounded by other off credit off any godlie learned zelous man And althowghe this be to much yet that which he writethe in the 200. pag. is to farr owt of al square Wher he affirmeth that the argument off authoritie whether owt off the Scriptures or owt off the interpretors off the Scripturrs is the best reason that can be browght in diuinitie To bothe I will answere here in the beginninge that the reader may haue wherewithe he maye beware and know how to estenie bothe his and our proufes And first of all seing the Apostle teacheth Timothie that the Scripture inspired by the holie goste is the onelie rule for the minister which he calleth the man off god either to establishe or ouerthrowe what soeuer maye fall in question in the churche And S. Peter saith that who soeuer speaketh in the churche must speake as the wordes of god And seing all the godlie zelous learned men in the world are not able to authorise or displace any doctrine in the churche withowt the word of god I leaue it to be considered how dauÌ„gerouslye he mainteineth his answere to be good for that it hathe ground either of the word of god or the iudgement of some godlie iearned man and let it be waied whether this be to set vp an other Doctor in the church then Moses or our sauiour Christ Touchinge that the authoritie off the Scripture in diuine matters owght to preuaile I willinglie graunte but that the argument off the authoritie of men whiche haue interpreted the Scriptures is the beste reason in controuersies off diuinitie but off the Papistes whose strongest towers are in the testimonies off the Doctors was neuer hard off And thowghe there be nothing more Papistical then this assertion yet the doctor holding the name and profession of the gospell maye to the vtter subuersion off it cause this to be printed and flie abroade And that the authoritie off learned men should be the best proufe in diuine matters hathe more absurdities in yt then yt hathe wordes For first their authoritie is here set in the same ranke withe the authoritie off the Scripture in that as the authoritie off the Scripturr so it also is set in the superlatiue degree off the best proufe Then their authoritie being preferred vnto all reasons is preferred vnto the reasons drawen owt off the Scripture which in euerie diuinitie cause almoste besides the authoritie are diuerse drawen off the causes and off the effectes c. Thirdlie yt ys absurd to perferr the authoritie of any man which ys onelie his bare affirmation vnto his one reason and discours And seing the ende off proufes in controuersies off diuinitye is that faythe maye be engendred in mindes whiche onelye can be grounded on the worde off God what a miserable yea what â— cursed faith shall that be that is hanged off the authoritâ—â— off men which be they neuer so learned yet are they because they be men Lyers suche as deceyue and be deceyued And wheras he saithe that an Argument off authoritie hathe an other weight in our profession then yt hathe in humane sciences I confesse it hathe so iff the authoritie off the Scripture bee consydered But as for the authoritie off men for the which cause he alledgeth this yâ— is farr otherwise For yff the authoritie off man in humane sciences and in mens matters be off small force off how how muche lesse force owght yt to be in Godes matters yt is clene contrarie therfore to that the D. sayth For althoughe that Kinde off argument off the authoritie off men is Good neither in humane nor diuine science yet
abowt to make men beleue that I haue some thinge that I would not haue men vnderstand And althoughe he confesse he vnderstand it not yet he reprehendeth it and so it commeth to him which S. Iude chargethe the false teachers withe in his tyme that he speaketh euill off that he knoweth not He asketh here for examples and they stick still in his throate vnswalowed and vndigested whiche the admonition gaue him when he hathe ouercome those then let him aske for more examples And wheras he ascribethe as a great absurditie to vs that we make the order off chusinge the minister before the eldershipp and gouernment be established somewhat diuerse from that which is before putting this florishe vppon it that we allowe off all thinges owt off order thoughe against our owne order so it be against common order I will not goo abowte to confute that here or to shew what good cause there is off this diuersitie it being sufficiently declared in that booke whiche togither withe the right forme off gouernment commaunded owt off the worde off god notethe the disorders off our churche onelie I will aske M. D. whether the consecration as it is called off the Archbishops and Bishopps at the first entrie off the Queenes maiestie vvas the same altogither vvithe that vvhiche hathe bene sithens And iff there were a difference betwene that and this then in this great desire off his to stricke he care not how nor after What sorte his strooke is fallen vppon him selffe and vpon those whom he vndertaketh to defend That the wordes off the admonition haue not that sense which is here ascribed vnto yt I haue shewed in the proper place neither will I touche it here althoughe the A. set it twentie tymes before me Yff he haue any thing to saye against that whiche I haue said there it shall be considered Althoughe here the D. was taken eueÌ„ in the verie acte of false coyninge yet he shameth not to denie yt and withe that bloudnes and foreheade that he is readie also to accuse him that taketh him withe the manner He biddeth me peruse more diligentlie the wordes off M. Bullingar I haue perused them and set them downe first in latin and then in Englishe and iff I haue not turned them truelye shew wherin I haue faulted and iff they be truelie turned then I demaunde againe where these wordes be founde in any of those leaues of Bullinger whiche yow quote That they could not teache truelie because they had great liuinges Yow saye they be word for word there shew but the same sense or meaninge that is to saye that this off M. Bullingers that the Anabaptistes said they could not teache the truthe vvhiche had any liuinge is all one withe that whiche yow haue set downe that they can not teache the truthe which haue great liuinges And iff yow can not shew it your falsification remaineth increased withe the open facing of an vntruthe In deede if yow can put owt all men eyes aÌ„d take away froÌ„ vs our senses and all light off grammer and off the knowledge off signification and proprietie off wordes it will not be impossible for yow withe suche confident speaches as yow vse to make vs beleue that all is turned vpside downe and that the earth hangeth ouer our heades and the heauens are vnderneath our feete but yow deceiue your selffe if yow thincke that yovve can beare downe the truthe so or that yow can hide falshoode by adding another vnto yt wherby it is made bigger and more easie to be sene then before The place added owt off M. Zuinglius Ecclesiastes maketh nothing to the saluinge off your falshoode and how farre our men as it pleasethe yow to call them are farre from all suche sayinges I haue before declared Yff yow shew as yow saye that I do giue to litle vnto the magistrate I will confesse my faulte and confesse my felse detter vnto yow for yt As for the cleanelines off my termes which I vse they are not so foule as the thinges wherunto they are applied and the prophet Malachy and S. Paule vsed them in honester matters then these are so that iff the phrase off the Apostles and Prophetes be manerly enoughe there is lesse godlinesse in yow which in me houe thus accused them off inciuilitie Vnto the nexte section pag. 40. I answere not To the 44. sect pag. 41. I graunt the corruptions off the churche of England to be suche that man in absteininge from the pollutions theroff owght not so seuer him selfe from those open assemblies wherein the eternall worde off the Lorde God is preached and the Sacramentes administred althoughe not in that puritie which they owght to be But I saye againe that the name off conuenticles is to light and conteÌ„ptuous for those meetiÌ„ges For here in is to be coÌ„sidered for what cause they departed Which was not for the mis likinge off any thinge which Christ ordeyned but throughe the mislike off that which Antechrist had browght in not as the Anabaptistes did and the D. surmiseth they did for that they iudged them selues pure and others vnpure but that they feared that their presence where suche corruptions were should be allowance or confirmation off them not so muche forthe hatred off the estate off the churche off England as forthe loue that they had to a better nor so muche for the hatred off the Ministers whiche were vniustly set ouer them as for the loue off those which were vnlawfullie by the Bishoppes taken from them Thedorete declareth how the Catholikes which mainteined the faithe of the Nicenc councell throughe affectioÌ„ to their teachers deuided and seuered them selues into seuerall coÌ„paines will the. A. faie that all their meetinges were conuenticles iff he do he speakethe farre otherwise off them then Theodorete and yet that diuision continued 86. yeares And iff this be off no authoritie whith yow yet I would gladlie vnderstande what yow vvill answere to the sentence off M. Caluin which yow haue alleadged your selffe pag. â—1 where he saithe This honor is meete to be giueÌ„ to the vvorde off god and to the Sacramentes that vvhersoeuer vve see the vvorde off God truelie preached and the Sacraments vvithovvt superstition Ministred there vve maye conclude vvithovvt all controuersie the church to be Iff this meeting withe some disorder be the church off god how is it a conuenticle Besides that it ought to haue bene considered off yow whether they continued in that diuision and whether being taught and shewed their error they did obstinatelie perseuer according to whiche circunstance that off Augustine owght to be expounded for not euerie one which departethe for any cause whatsoeuer from that vvhiche is the churche off God by and by is to be accoumpted no membre of the churche For seing that heresie is more heynous then a scisme and yet heresie dothe not cut a man from the churche onlesse he remaine obstinate muche lesse can a scisme cause forthwith
at large Vnto the fowre nexte sections I answer nothing sauing that where in the seconde secâ— pa. 5â— he saith that master Caluin in his booke against the Anabaptistes affirmethe that the churche as towching the external pollicie can not be perfecte I doo assure my selffe that as in other places so heere he hathe vntrewly saide off Maister Caluin And yt cannot bâ— vnknowne but in Moses and the Apostlâ—â— times ther was a perfecte patruÌ„ of the owtwarde gouernernment off the churches bothe giuen off the lorde and receiued off the churches neither can there be any parte of the owtwarde gouernement off the churche assigned by the answerer which draweth any suche impossibilitie withe yt as he imagineth And iff he saye that ther were faultes committed againste those perfecte patrones that is not to the purpose For the faultes off particular persons doo no more ouerthrowe the perfection off the gouernment whiche was receiued then the faultes off the officers in our churche againste the lawes theroff are to be imputed vnto the lawes them selues wherby that gouernment standeth And as for the examples off the churches off Corinthe and Galatia whiche he alledgeth they rather make against him For that disorder whiche the Apostle chargeth them withe being a slyding backe and falling awaye from that estate wherin they were firste off all set by the Apostell argueth that there was a time when the contrarie off those disorders had place in their churches In the nexte section he alledgeth diuers examples to proue that enemies one withe another conspire against the trewthe whiche no man do which and where I shewed that the churches friÌ„des may doo some thiÌ„ges which some of the churches enemies doo against him whiche in that the admonitors doo certaine thinges with the Papiste and Anabaptistes woulde giue to vnderstande that they are conspired with theÌ„ he answerethe that the admonitors conspire withe the enemies off the churche in thinges whiche are againste the churche which is a manifest begging off that whiche is in controuersie Towching that which I sayde he hathe tawght that there is no commaundement in the scripture to put heretikes to deathe althowghe he denie that euer he did so yet beside that he mainteineth the same in the seconde treatise where he leaueth yt in the libertie off the magistrate whether he will doo yt or no and reiecteth all the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe as Iewis he there be moo witnesses off this then his bare deniall is hable to beare downe to whose knowledge I wil so reporte me in this behalfe that if they confirme not the same I refuse not to beare the blame off that reporte where he saieth there is no cause that he shoulde be better thought of emonge the papistes which teache and practise the contrarie althoughe the Papistes abuse this doctrine to the horrible murther off the church yet the doctrine is the doctrine off god and not the Papistes and yow by staying the course off yt nourishe them to the daye off slawghter and shedding off the bloude off the sainctes off god vvhich is their feaste and vvhiche they so greatly delight in and longe after In althat which foloweth vnto the first tractate vvhich beginneeth page 62. there is nothing worthe the answere And as for that whole tractate because yt perteineth to the question off lordeshipp and dominion off the Archebishopps ouer the bishops and off the Bishopps ouer the reste off the Ministers yt shall be referred to the beginning off the 8. Tractate where the answerer shall receiue his replie What authoritie the churche hathe in making off orders Chapter 1. pag. 77. THe playster vvherwithe the answerer woulde heale his vnskilfulnes in the expounding off tollerating in the churche by these wordes placing in the churche will not cleane For to let pas the meanig off the admonition whiche he shoulde haue shewed iff he mainteine his answer by yt and not as he doothe contrary to all lawe of disputation bid me proue that their meaning was not so as he supposeth I saie to let that pas yt appeareth by bis plaine vvordes that this exposition was not framed in regarde off the meaning off the admonition but for that he knew not what difference there was betwene placinge in the churche and tollerating in the churche For himselffe coÌ„fesseth that this is the principall grounde of their booke that those thinges onely shoulde be placed in the churche whiche the lorde himself in his worde comÌ„aundethe and ascribing this iudgemeÌ„t vnto them he afterwarde expoundeth that to be asmuche as if they shoulde haue saide that nothing shulde be tolerated c. yff this be their principall grounde that nothing be placed c as the A. confessethe and placing in the churche is not the same that tollerating in the churche as he doothe also confesse yt must folowe that the principall grounde off the admonition was not as he saithe that nothing shoulde be tollerated in the churche not commaunded by the worde And his wordes doo discharge the admonition off any suche assertion For in that he saithe that their meaning was so farr as he coulde gather that nothing shoulde be placed c. yt is manifeste that in saying nowe that they mente that nothinge shoulde be tolerated c. he chargeth them farther then he was then hable to gather off their booke Afterwarde he chargethe me withe an vnaduised and a popishe assertion for that I say that many thinges are commaunded in the scripture vvhich are not expressed in yt He neded not to haue trauailed far to haue seene how far I am from poperie in in this pointe iff he woulde haue but considered the wordes which folowe in the same diuision that god hathe set before vs in his vvorde a perfect patrone off his churche But I was at leaste ouerseene in this kind off speache Alas iff he woulde vnderstande his grammer and acknowledge that which simple scholers off the gramÌ„er schoole doo well knowe that their is difference betweene expressed and conteined betweene expressed and included betweene expressed and implied betweene expressed and gathered He woulde neuer haue troubled the reader with suche folies And as for that which I set downe I did yt vppon Good groundes For who is there which knoweth not that thes thinges that there is one essence and three persons in the godheade that there is in our Sauiour Christe one parson and two natures are not expressed but onely conteined in the worde off God And iff proofe must be had off thinges which is to greate shame for one that cariethe the title off a diuine to be ignorant off let the answerer know that lerned diuines speake afte this sorte Their wordes be thes Off the father of the Sonne and holy ghoste there is one nature one essence and thre persons In Christ our lorde there be tvvo natures and one person and many other thinges vvhich the catholike churche doothe receiue rather layde oute by the interpretation
the same that I laye vnto him What ys indifferent yf that be not vvhich the scripture saithe not a vvorde of hathe not prescribed hathe not determined hathe not appointed all vvhiche phrases he vseth as those which signifie the same thinge And when he addethe in the ende that there is none so symple that vnderstandeth not that the churche hathe authoritie to take order in thes thinges dooth he not affirme the same for the churche hathe authoritie onely in indifferent thinges to take order So that it is more manifeste then the daie that which I haue charged him with ones he hathe saide twise althowghe not in the same yet in as full vvordes And where he asketh whether yt be all one to saye the scripture hathe not determined whether baptisme should be ministred opēly or priuately at home or in the churche and to saye the churche maye make baptisme priuate or publike verelie they are in mine and I thinke in all other indifferent iudgement all one and iff they were not yet as I haue shewed yow haue saide bothe the one and the other And vvhere yow saye that I therby giue the reader to vnderstande that yow affirme yt is in power off the churche to apointe that ther shoulde be no publicke baptisme althowghe I giue no more to vnderstande that then that yow affirme that it is in her power to appointe that ther should be no priuate baptisme yet all men see that this ys at the leste the weight off your wordes that althowghe the churche shoulde abvse her power in apointing alwaies priuate baptisme yet that must be obeied For as when yow saie that the scripture hathe not determined whether the communion shoulde be celebrated sitting standing or kneeling baptisme in fontes basons riuers c. Your meaning is to affirme that iff the churche will haue the communion alwaies receiued kneeling or baptisme alwaies ministred in basone that so it owght to be and neuer either stāding or sitting or in fontes so in saying that the scripture hathe not determined whether the preaching off the worde shoulde be publike or priuate c. and that the churche hathe the ordering of this thinge yow affirme that if the churche should allwaies ordeine that preaching and baptizing shoulde be priuate that so yt ought to be Iff yow had saide that yt had bene in the churches power according to the former rules prescribed to haue ordered whether preaching and administring the Sacramētes shoulde be in the towne or in the fielde in a churche as they call it or in some one mans house or other I wolde haue moued no question againste yow but when yow saye that yt is in the power off the churche to ordeine whether yt should be publike or priuate I can not abide yow for euen in the time of persequution when it is preached in the howse off a priuate man I haue shewed that the churche assembling there the meeting is publike wherunto yow answer not a worde Againste the place I alledged oute off Salomon he excepteth that it is strangelie applied and farr fetched Salomon in the chapter before had shewed how the harlot doothe lye in waite for men secrethe and in the nighte time and so pressed with conscience of the euill which she goethe abowte shunneth the lighte and sekethe secrete corners In the beginninge off this chapter he comparethe the wisdome off God in his worde vnto a noble woman whom he opposethe vnto the Harlot and shewethe How she off the contrary parte doothe not lie in waite or seeke corners or night to hide her selffe in or whisper in the eares off men but exalteth her voice and speakethe in the moste open places and corners off streates where the greateste concourse off people is wherupon it may appeare that iff the A. ether will or vnderstanding were at home and not far from him this place had bene nere enowghe the pourpose For iff the worde muste be taught in suche sorte as it maie beste be conueied vnto the knowledge of moste men and leste be charged with the seeking off corners or the couer off the night and yt is manifest that that is better doone when yt is preached publikly then when yt ys preached priuately yt must folowe that by that saying of Salomon yt is prescribed vnto the churche that the preaching owght to be publike And if there be not onely examples off Christe and off his Apostles but also a plaine commaundement as I haue shewed to preache the worde openly then yt folowethe that yf the churche haue power to order whether the worde should be preached publikely or priuately yt hathe power to order contrary to the commaundement of our sauiour Christe And where he saithe that the worde off god maye be taught prtuately and that a man may exhorte priuately that is nothing to the purpose For we speake of the order which owght to be keepte in the exercises that concerne the bodie off the churche and not of the priuate exhortations teachings and admonitions that ether the minister owght to vse towardes the seuerall persons off his flocke or one priuate man towardes another or the father off a howsholde in his familie c. And this is so farre from helping off him that it makethe altogether againste him For as yt is not in the churches power to forbyd thes priuate teachinges admonitions exhortations or to ordeine that thes teachings c. be publike because the lorde hathe commanded thē to be priuate so yt is not in her power to take awaie the publike preaching of the worde considering that the lorde also hathe commaunded yt And therfore yt ys vntrew which he set downe that the scripture hathe not determined whether the worde shoulde be tawght priuately or publikely For by priuate men yt hathe determined yt shoulde allwayes be doone priuately by publyke persons also yt shewethe how and in what case yt shoulde be spoken priuately and how and in what case publikely contrary wherunto the churche can not determine and iff she determine a 100. tymes she is not to be obeied And wheras vppon that that neither the place nor the nomber off Persons be off the substance off the wordes and Sacramentes he woulde conclude that it is in the power off the churche to make the preaching and administring off the Sacramentes publike or priuate he maye aswell saie which he saide in his former booke that yt is in the churches power to take order whether men and women shall come clothed or naked to receiued the Sacramentes considering that to come either clothed or naked is not off the substance off the Sacramentes Where he owght to vnderstande that there are diuerse thinges annexed and hanging by which being commaunded by the worde off god are no more in the churches libertie to alter then yt is in her power to change the daye into night Howbeit as I haue shewed that the place otherwise priuate being by the order of the churche appointed for the assemblie off
aduantage considering that bothe the ceremonies are for a greate parte naught and the opinion off the necessitie off them a greate deale wors And Ieromes wordes also in tying the later churches vnto the customes off the ancient which are not against faith albeit they be smoothed by translatinge praesertim namely and with his exposition of matters off faith yet euen as they are set downe off him ouerthrowe the churches libertie in thinges indifferent For althowgh they should be inconuenient and vncomely yet the matter off inconuenience and vncomelines being by the Ans no matter off faith the churche must still be clogged with them nether can it by that rule shake them off There are a fourthe sorte of places owte of the aunciēte fathers wherin he putteth the greateste confidence and vpon which he hathe laide greateste weight and therfore by handes set ouer againste them moueth the reader to laie sure hould on them Thes places drawne owte off Ambrose vppon the Ephes and of Tertull de virginibus velandis that of Ambrose being as hathe bene shewed very corrupte is also a conterfaite as shall after be noted The other off Tertull is a flat and a plaine Montaniste yt is not vnknowne that Montanus helde that there was no sufficient instruction giuen by the Apostles vnto the churche but that there were onely certeine principles off Religion giuen by them being vnperfect and were afterwarde to be finished and polished by the conforter whiche himselfe did forge This poison Tertullian hauing druncke he lefte the Sauour off yt in diuers places but in no place more brimly then in this which maye appeare by the comparisons he vseth off likening the churche off God in the Apostels time vnto a tree whose fruicte was not blomed and vnto one which is in his base age and the churches after the Apostels times throwghe reuelatiōs suche as he imaginethe the Apostels were not hable to beare allwaies marching forward towardes a greater ripenes in fruicte and perfection in age And if the D. had bene a litle awakened he might haue smelt the fraude euen in thes wordes which he hathe bene ab vsed by For when he imagineth a nother rule off conuersatiō and leading of liffe of a Chirstian then that which hathe bene giuen he might haue iustly suspected the sentence seing the rule off conuersation comprehended in the commaundementes is vnchangeable And when he addeth that that should be doone by the grace off God receiuing increase dailie vnto the ende he did not obscurely touche the head off his error which is that there shall be still vnto the worldes ende greater graces off the spirite off God giuen to the churche generally then hathe bene before in the Apostels tymes Wherbie appeareth that the places which the A. will haue the reader laye so faste houlde of are thornes not to be once touched withowte a hedging gloue in one hande and a hatche◠in the other We willingly subscribe vnto the Iudgement off M. Caluin alledged here And where the Ans woulde make peraduēture the reader beleue that by the wordes off pollicie and gouernement lefte to the iudgement off the church Caluin meaneth to make thes pointes in cōtrouersie at the churches disposition it shall appeare bothe by his seuerall sentences of thes thinges that he holdethe them vnchangeable and by the exposition off M Beza his wordes the same in effect with thes off Maister Caluin which cometh after to be considered It remaineth that seing the answerer woulde oppresse vs with the authoritie off the fathers We consider whether there can be any fitter places browght for the maintenance off the Admonition then the A. hathe alledged for him Augustin VVhether yt be questiō off Christe or vvhethet yt be question off his churche or off vvhat thinge soeuer the question be off I say not yf vve but iff an angel from heauen shal tel vs any thinge beside that yovv haue receiued in the scriptures vnder the lavv and the gospell let hym be accursed And lest the Answ should restreine this generall saying vnto the doctrine of the gospell so that he woulde therby shut owte the discipline let him heare what Cyprian saithe The Christian religion saithe he shall fynde that ovvte off this scripture rules off all doctrines haue spronge and that from hence doothe springe and hether doothe returne vvhatsoeuer the Ecclesiasticall discipline doothe conteine And euen Tertull himselffe before he was imbrued with this heresie off Montanus giueth testimonie vnto the discipline in thes wordes VVe maye not giue our selues this liberty to bringe in any thinge off our vvill nor choose any thinge that other men bringe in off their vvill vve haue the Apostels for autors vvhich them selues brought nothing off their ovvne vvill but the discipline vvhich they receiued of Christe they deliuered faithfully vnto the people And if the sentence were any thinge worthe which he browght in towching the discipline owt off Tertull yt maketh against him For in that he will haue that correction off the discipline to haue the authoritie of the holy goste speaking in his fantastical cōforter he declareth that it is not a thinge which hangeth vpon the will of mortal mē And that in indifferēt thinges it is not enowghe that they be not againste the worde but that they be accordīg to the worde yt may appeare by other places Wherehe saieth that vvhat soeuer pleasethe not the lorde displeaseth him and vvithe hurte is receiued And in another place he saithe that the scripture denieth that vvhiche yt noteth not And to come yet neerer where he disputeth against the wearing of crowne or garland which is indifferent off it selfe to those which obiecting asked vvhere the scripture saithe that a man might not vveare a crovvne he anwereth by asking vvhere the scripture saithe that they may vve are And vnto thē replying that yt is permitted vvhich is not for bidden he answereth that yt is forbidden vvhich is not permitted Whereby appeareth that the argument off the scriptures negatiuely holdeth not onely in the doctrine and Ecclesiasticall discipline but euen in matters arbitrarie and variable by the aduise off the church Where it is not enoughe that they be not forbidden vnlesse there be some word which dooth permit the vse of them yt is not enoughe that the scripture speaketh not against them vnlesse it speake for them and finally where yt displeaseth the Lorde which pleasethe hym not one must off necessitie haue the worde off his mouthe to declare his pleasure Whether I commonly vse to propounde thinges in controuersie in bare affirmacions or denials withowt reason and whether yowe applie the scriptures better then I and howe true yt is that yowe haue in yower former booke alledged more scriptures then I did in mine all which thinges this glosse affirmeth I leaue yt to the Iudgement off the reader Cap. 3. Diuision 1. pag. 100. IN the first whole page there is nothing to be answered yt being shewed
that yt is not our question which the A. dooth so shamefully affirme whether the scripture haue expressed all externall ceremonies c. In the next page vnto me shewing that the place off August to Casulanus is against hym for that where he would proue that certein thinges are in the churches power the wordes which he alledgeth say that the decrees of the forefathers and coustomes off the people off God are to be obserued tying the church to the decrees and coustomes off those which went before he answereth that August giueth a rule vnto priuate men and not vnto the church Wherein he condemneth him self off hauing alledged that sentence cleane beside the cause For it is manifest by the wordes immediatly goinge before that he alledged it to proue the autoritie off the church in thinges indifferent neither can yt in any other respect haue any bonde with that which he pretendeth to proue And nowe that yt is shewed howe vnfitly the place is alledged he shifteth his footing and in steade off a rule towchinge the church he maketh yt a rule for priuate men and in steade off shewing the libertie off the church he sheweth the bondage that a priuate man is tyed by Where I conclude against hym off that sentence off Augustine that we ought to followe the coustomes and orders off the Apostels and off the primatiue churches seing yt ys certein that they were our forefathers and the people off God and that we owght not to followe the Papistes which are neither the people off God nor our forefathers to the first off folowinge the Apostels he saith there were certeine thinges conuenient onely for their tymes which are not to be folowed Wherein onlesse he meane those thinges which are in controuersie yt is nothing to the pourpose and iff he meane them yt is a manifest begging off that which is in demaunde Vnto the seconde point off not taking the Papistes coustomes and decres he referreth me to other places Where notwithstanding he neuer answereth this argument off Augustin and so in pretence off a fitter place he hath taken a longer day Where he noteth me of ignorance in that I saide I could oppose Ignatius and Tertull vnto August and Ambrose towchinge the fast vppon the Lordes day saying that there is no difference betweene them th one part speaking off the Saturday the other off the Sonday I am contented to beare his charge off ignorance But is there any man so forsaken off all not learninge onely but common reason which dooth not vnderstand that thes propositions differ and fight amongest them selues yt ys a detestable thinge to fast on the Lordes day which is the Iudgement off Ignatius and Tertull and yt is lavvfull to fast on the Lordes day Which is the Iudgement off Augustine set downe off him selffe And when Ambrose speaking not onely off the Sabbothe off the Iewes but generally willeth that vvhatsoeuer the coustome off the church be in that behalffe off fasting yt should be folovved dooth he not manifestly ouerthrowe his saying which saith to fast on the Lordes day is to kill the Lorde And euen in the case off the fast off the Iewes Sabbothe which Casulanus demaundeth counsaill off yt appeareth there was great disagrrement betweene the aunciēt fathers consideringe that in the Canons which are attributed vnto the Apostles it was ordeined that if one were founde to faste on the Lordes day or on the Sabbothe one onely exepted being a clerke he should be deposed and being a layman separated from the supper off the Lorde If I haue off ignorance set the fathers together by the eares as he saith let vs see howe with his knoweledge he can part them and set them at one in this behalffe That the fastes which were kept in the tymes off Ambrose and Augustine and longe before and their allowance especially off the Lentenne fastes Were corrupte and prophanations off the true vse off fast yf neede were as I haue in part so yt might in more wordes easely be shewed That the counsaile giuè for the keeping of those superstitious fastes might haue place in a straunger and priuate mā which owght not to stand towardes a Citisen and hym that hath charge yt is apparent And yet bothe thes the Answerer would beare downe with wordes and nothing but wordes Where the answ saying that he knoweth nothing in the place off Augustine or Ambrose towching fasting which may not be obserued withowt iust offense may be taken either to speake of the places which I alledged thouching merite off fasting or the places which him selffe alledged I will rather esteme vntill I knowe the contrary that he ment off those which he browght him selffe then together with the slipp off standing daies off fast he should also fall flat by opinion off the merite in fasting And so I would haue the reader to take him that there be no offense taken at this place so doubtfully left Where he bringeth me in concluding that because the auncient fathers erred in some thinges therfore they saide true in none my wordes cary no suche sense But for so muche as they erred and euen in this matter off fast which was in hande they owght to haue no further credite then their authoritie is waranted by the word off God and good reason and that therfore the Answ which presseth their bare autoritie withowte any warde off the word of God or assistance of good reason ether browght of him selfe or fetched from them bringeth an intollerable tyrannie into the church of god This I gaue to vnderstand which because he durst not in plaine wordes gaine saie he hathe tourned my wordes vnto another sense Cap. 3. Diuision 2 pag. 103. Augustine saithe that the feast of Easter Pentecoste c. are the statutes off the Apostles and commended to the churches and addeth that they are not conteined in the scripture Whereuppon I concluded that there is some thinge by this reckening commanded off God to be obserued not conteined in the scripture and consequently that there is no sufficient doctrine conteined in the scripture whereby we may be saued To this the Doct. answereth that yt is a pretie and sound collection I haue in deed for shortnes sake trussed that into twoo or three propositions which to put in full and comptere argumentes required a greater nomber Howbeit the soundenes off the collection is apparant to all which will open their eies And because the Ans will yeald no obedience vnto the truthe vnlesse she taking him by the collar haue her handē vppon his throat the foundenes off the collection shall thus appeare vnto him What soeuer was decreed off the Apostles and commended vnto the churches to be obserued is necessarie but some thinges by Aug. and the D. not conteined in the word off God were decreed and commended by the Apostels vnto the posteritie of the churches therfore some thinges by Aug. and the D. not conteined in the word of God is necessarye to be
obserued The first proposition is manifest considering that the statutes off the Apostels are the statutes off Christ the seconde is Augustines allowed off the D. and iff bothe these be true then the third must needes be This being thus gathered that which I added that therupō yt folowed that there is no sufficient doctrine conteined in the scriptures is thus concluded That which doothe not conteine all the will off God necessarie for vs to doo conteineth no sufficiente doctrine vnto saluation but the scripture by Aug and the d. conteinethe not all the will off God necessary for vs to doo therfore the scripture by Aug. and the d conteineth no sufficient doctrine vnto saluation The first proposition is manifest in that S. Paul to deliuer him selffe from the gilte off bloude towards the Ephes alledgeth that he had taught them all the will off God the second foloweth off that which Aug. and the d. allowe for iff there be some thing commanded off the Apostells not conteined in the worde off God that being necessarie yt must folowe that some necessarie thing for vs to doo is not conteined in the worde And where the A. saithe that neither Aug. nor he say that any thinge not conteined in the scripture is so necessarie that it may not be altered vpon iust occasion by suche as haue autoritie he can not mocke the worlde after that sorte withe faste and loose at his pleasure For if they be statutes off the Apostels and commended vnto the churches what autoritie is there vppon earthe whiche can displace them which the apostels haue placed and iff it be madnes as he saith afterward owte off Augustin not to obserue them or once to reason off them how can they take order in them And this answer is ouerthrowne by the wordes off Augustin whiche folow immediatly But other things saith he vvhich are varied by regions as that some faste vpon the sabbothe daye some doo not c. are at libertie to bo obserued neither is there any better rule to a Christian man in thes then to do as the churche doothe vvhere he comethe Where it is manifest that he opposeth the tradition off the Apostels and ther statutes receiued by tradition vnto those thinges whiche are in the churches power to ordeine and to those wherin yt ys safe for vs to applie our selfes to the order off the churche They being therfore in this opposed the one beinge in the churches power the other are nor the one being of that sorte that off which side soeuer the churche determine off them a man may saflie obey the other muste needes be off that sorte that if the churche woulde otherwise ordeine of them then the Apostels that a man may not safely obey And in the nexte sentence the thinges which he opposethe those statutes off the Apostels vnto he calleth indifferent and therby giueth to vnderstande that he tooke them for vnindifferent and hitherto perteineth that he alledgeth owt off August in Zuinglius name and is found in his booke against the Donatistes where yt ys said that they are to be holden as giuen by Apostolicall autoritie Which is more then if he had said giuen by the Apostels considering that there are thinges giuen off the Apostels as counsailes and left at the churches order to chaunge vppon occasion as were the traditions which M. Caluin speaketh off but they were neuer left vnto the church with an Apostolical autoritie Which autoritie is off the higheste nature and proceding from the higheste court that can be And that this was Augustines meaning appeareth manifestly by the place which I alledged out of his booke againste the donatistes Where he saithe that all those thinges vvhich the churche houldeth generally are to be houlden as praeceptes off the Apostels althovvghe they be not vvriten wherunto he answereth nothing And by that place the folie off the answerer wherby he woulde tune Augustin by maister Caluins wreste is more plainly discouered For where he wolde haue vs thinke that August vnderstood those traditions onely which perteine to order and politie that may be varied and not vnto doctrine yt is manifest that Augustin in that place saithe that the Apostels gaue commaundement tovvching the not rebaptising off those vvhiche vvere baptized by Heretikes and that the custome of off the churche in not rebaptizing vvhich vvas obiected against Cyprian had the beginning off the Apostels tradition Nowe I would knowe off the answerer whether he dare saye that this iudgement off rebaptizing be off traditions which may be chaunged or whether there can be any iust cawse wherefore this may be altered And if he dare not saye this then let him confesse his faut and not seeke to make vp his breaches by sutche vntempered morter Where I saye that thereby there is a gate opened vnto the the Papistes to bring in vnder the colour off traditions all their beggery he answereth that the Papistes are rather confuted by this meanes considering that the Pope hath nether at all tymes nor in all places bene receiued Where to let pas that to helpe him selfe he addeth at all times which is not in Augustines rule he towcheth not the point off the cause For in that onely that it is saide that there be precepts off the Apostels vnto the church not cōteined in the word of God is pusshed at the strongest bulwarcke which the church hath to defend yt selfe against the Popishe beggerie and all other corruptions Which bullwarke is that whatsoeuer is commaunded of the Lorde vnto the church is conteined in the worde off god yff this be once shaken there is no sufficient resistance left vnto the church against this assaut For althoughe yt hath some great likelihood which hath bene generally and from the Apostels times receiued yet for somuche as yt is not vnpossible for the whole church to erre in some point and to haue taken vp or reteined off that which yt had before some thing not deliuered by the apostels it can be no sufficiēt bar to withstand the corruptions offred to be brought in by the Heretikes to saie that the church hath ether doon or not doon so and so sythēs the Apostels tymes And althoughe we might be assured that they are the precepts of the Apostels which haue bene so generally receyued yet the doore is not so close shut against corruptions as he pretendeth For this thing standing that there are cōmaundemēts giuen of the Apostels not cōteined in the word of god they may thrust in thinges which haue not had that generall and continuall obseruation For althowghe Aug. saie that they are the traditiōns of the Apostles which are generally receiued yet he dooth not saie that they onely are and the Heretikes whose corruptions should be repulsed in this respect that they haue not bene generally nor alwaies receiued might haue an easye replye that there is the same preiudice against certen off the commandementes off the Apostels committed to writing considering that
they haue nether generally nor continually bene receiued Where he alledgeth Zuinglius vsing a sentence off Augustine not muche vnlike to confirme childrens baptisme yt is to be noted that Zuinglins vsed not that sentence but in the confirmacion off a thing which hath certeine testimonie owt off the word off God as hath childrens baptisme whereit could not be dangerous and then yt is to be obserued that thereby is ouerthrowne his whole answer For Zuinglius taking that sentence off thinges which haue a necessarye obseruation in the church off God aÌ„d can not be chaunged putteth to flight his whole answer with the defense theroff which supposeth Augustine to haue gyuen this rule off thinges indifferent And therefore either the A. is abused in vnderstanding thes places off thinges indifferent or els Zuinglius in vsing this for the necessitie off childrens baptisme gaue his aduersaries great aduantage whilest they might haue answered with the D. that that authoritie off the Apostels is suche as the church vpon consideration may alter And where he alledgeth M. Caluin as one which had vsed that rule off Augustine I answer that yt is one thing to alowe the sentence off a writer and another thing to take some aduantage off it when his aduersarie presseth hym with his authoritie A man vseth some time that defense prouoked by the manner off assault off his ennemie which he would not doo iff he might choose his owne fight and it might serue M. Caluin in part for arm our against the bare autoritie off Augustine vrged off the Papistes which is not of proofe against the shot off the word off God. Where he saieth that the Papistes haue no wicked thing which ether hath bene generally obserued or whereoff he is not able to shewe the first autor I answer that it is well the church standethe not in neede off this defense off yowres For if the Lenten fast which in Augustines time had bene by longe coustome receiued if holy water holy oyle the superstition off praying towardes the East which are off those traditions that in the place by him alledged owt off Basile are attributed vnto the Apostles yff those I saie and suche like be against the word off God let hym tell howe he will cleare the Apostels of being autoures off these corruptions which are fathered of them by men off suche credit onlesse he flye to this rocke which by the doctrine off traditions he goeth abowte to vndermine that is to saie that the Apostles haue left in writing whatsoeuer they would haue the churches obserue For what autoritie soeuer he bring to shewe who were the first inuentors of these thinges yt being humane is counteruailed by them which haue caried them vnto the times off the Apostels Where vppon on that I saide that all the commandementes off God and off the Apostels are nedefull for our saluation he maketh such a terrible owtcrie as if all the church had bene set on fire I dowbt whether for the vanitie of the accusation I should vouchesafe yt of answer which for the strong and bitter wordes might seme to require a large defense Howbeit let him vnderstand that when I speake of all the commandementes of God and off the Apostels nether by the deduction off that which I handled nor by any Iudgement not altogether peruerted could I be thowght to meane any other commaundementes then those which perteine vnto vs And iff I had met with the vainest trifler and hawker after syllables which can possibly be yet the sentence I set downe is sufficiently fenced against all his greedines of snapping at yt For the Ceremoniall lawe and personall lawes giuen in times paste being nowe no commaundementes off God and the Apostels can not be comprehended vnder my wordes off the commandementes off God c. And iff a man leuing the deduction off the cawse which I had in hand will staie in the bare wordes which I vsed then euen bothe cermoniall and those which were giuen to particular persones albeit they be not to be doone yet are they for our better instruction in the will off God needefull for our saluacion To the argument which I vsed that iff Augustine would haue vs doo those thinges which the Apostels vsed in the churches not committed to writing then muche more he would haue bene off aduise that we should kepe that which is committed to writing towching their gouernement off the church he answereth nothing In the thirde diuision pag. 107. to that I found fault with off the second rule off Augustine which is that yt is madnes ether not to kepe or to reason off that vvhich is vniuersally obserued off the church he answereth that was a rule for Augustines time and not for all times Wherein he first condemneth him selfe off wandring from the cause which to shew that some thing may be established in our church not commaunded in the scripture alledgeth a rule that belongeth not vnto vs Then it is manifest howe helpeles a shift this is considering that the rule is generall and as generally gyuen as any other the rules which the A. comendeth vnto vs out off Augustine Beside that I alledged that euen in August time yt was wicked to giue any such autoritie to the decree or custome of men as not to enquire into yt which because he durst not denie he left vnanswered And whereas he addeth if it be not repugnant to the word I shewed that Augustine could haue no suche meaning which althoughe he confesse in one word contrary to that which he set downe yet in the same page lest the truthe should get any victorie at his handes he dooth in effect denie yt For he saithe that Aug. hath sondry times in suche rules made this exception iff they be not against faith c. Where yt is manifest that this exception is of those rules which are diuersly obserued and which he openly opposeth vnto this rule and suche as this is off the necessary obseruacion off thinges The place vnto the Gall. was needefully opposed For if there be commandementes off the Apostells vnto the churches and thinges which yt is madnes not to kepe or to enquire into not writen there ys something necessary to saluacion which S. Paul preached not considering that the whole summe off his preaching is cowched in writing The place off Augustine off abrogating ceremonies otherwise indifferent he answereth was not for his pourpose Howbeyt of his pourpose had bene to haue boulted owt the truthe yt â—â— cleare that hauing this cawse in hand whether ceremonies in them selues indifferent owght to be remoued he would not haue dissembled yt As for that he chargeth me with leuing owt off thinges before in the middest and after and thereof hath almoste fylled a whole syde it is vtterly vnworthy any answere considering that I haue left nothing owt which is in controuersie nothing which I doo not willingly confesse nothing that he hathe any aduantage by yea I left that
abrogated For if a man will make the curse a part of all the morall lawe wher yt is rather a necessary adioinct vnto the breache of the lawe then a part therof yet notwithstanding that part off the morall lawe which standeth in commaunding and forbidding remaineth vnshaken and as concerning abrogation vntowched off our Sa. Christ Secondly it foloweth hereuppon that those iudiciall lawes off Moses which are merely politik and withowt all mixture off Ceremonies must remaine as those which hinder not the atonement off the Iewes and Gentils with God or off one off them with an other Beside that it being manifest that our Sa Christ came not to dissolue any Good gouernement off commen wealthe he can least off all be thowght to haue comme to dissolue that which him selffe had established And off this point the Ans hath twoo contrary sentences one off Musculus which saith that the iudiciall lavve is abrogated the other off Beza which is the same with that which I haue brought reasons off that is to say that the iudiciall lavve being giuen vnto the Ievves is not yet abrogated so that iff they had any estate off common vvealthe in the Land off Canaan they should be constreined to vse that forme off gouernemēt vvhich vvas gyuē vnto them of Moses Nowe albeit those lawes gyuen vnto the Iewes for that land doo not binde the Gentils in other landes for somuche as the diuersitie off the disposition of the people and state off that country gaue occasion off some lawes there which would not haue bene in other places and peoples yet forsomuche as there ys in those lawes a constant and euerlasting equitie whereuppon they were grounded and the same perfecter and farther from error then the forge off mans reason vvhich is euen in this behalffe shrewdly vvounded is able to deuise yt followeth that euē in making politike lawes for the common wealth Christian Magistraites owght to propound vnto them selues those lawes and in light of their equitie by a iust proportion off circunstances off person place c. frame them Furthermore that this equitie off the Iudiciall lawe remaineth not as a counsaile vvhich men may followe yf they list and leaue at their pleasure but as a lawe vvhereunto they be bound what better proofe can we haue then the Apostle Which after he had alledged diuers similitudes fetched off the common vse off men to proue that a Minister off the Gospell ought to be mainteined off the churches chardge vnto the aduersarie which might except that those were but humane reasons he alledgeth as the eternall lawe off God one off the Iudiciall lawes off Moses which was that a man should not mousell the mouthe of the oxe vvhich tredeth ovvt the corne Where it is manifest that he doubteth not to binde the cōscience off the Corinthes vnto the equitie off that lawe which was Iudiciall Likewise of the finding off the priestes in the seruice off the altar commaunded in the lawe he concludeth that those which preache the gospell should liue off it And this maintenance off the preistes albeit in the maner off prouision yt was ceremoniall yet as it was a reward of their seruice due by men as the punishementes also iff they had failed in their duties was mere iudiciall Whereuppon it is brought to passe that in those iudicialls to all the circumstances whereoff we are not bound we are notwithstanding bound to the equitie Yt remaineth to shewe that there are certein Iudiciall lawes which can not be chaunged as that a blasphemer contemptuous and stubborne Idolater c. ought to be put to death The doctrine which leueth this at libertie when they can alledge no cause off this loosenes but the comming off our Sauiour Christ and his passion faulteth many wayes And first yt is a childishe error to thincke that our Sauiour Christe came downe to exempt men from corporall death which the lawe casteth vppon euill doers when as he came not to deliuer from death which is the parting off the bodie from the soule but from that which is the separation bothe off bodie and soule from the gratious presence off the lord And iff it were so that our Sa. Christe had borne in his owne bodie this ciuill punishement off publike offenders yt must folowe thereupon not which the Doctor Phansieth that it is in the libertie off the Magistrate to put them to death but that he must will hee nill he yff they repent kepe them aliue For if our Sa. Christe hath answered that iustice off God in his lawe whereby he hath commaunded that suche malefactors should be put to death yt should be great iniustice to require that againe in the life off the offender So that ether our Sa. Christe hath answered that iustice off God which he requireth in his lawe concerning the death of suche offenders and then yt can not be asked againe in the bodie of the offender or els he hath not answered yt and then yt remaineth of necessitie to be answered in the life off the offender Againe this opinion ys iniurious vnto the death and whole appearing off the sonne of God in fleshe For where he appepeared for this cause that he might destroy sinne which is the worck off the Deuill the Answerer in his imagination of choise which he leueth to the Magistrate towching the putting of suche horrible offēders to death doth at vnawares as muche as in him lieth make our Sa. Christe build againe that kingdome of sinne which he hath destroyed For when bothe in common reason and by the manifest word off God before alledged the Lord giueth this blessing vnto the punishement of suche greiuous offenders by death that others not onely which see but also which heare off them haue the bridell off feare put vppon them whereby they are withholden from the like crimes yt must nedes followe that whosoeuer maketh our Sauiour Christ autor of this loosenes in punishing suche offenders maketh him forthwith to lose the bridell whereby others are staied from throwing them selues downe the hill off wickednes which was before committed And what is if this be not to make our sauiour Christe a troubler off common wealthes Moreouer if our Sa. Christe by his comming loosed thes cyuill punishementes and pourchased this grace off his Father for blasphemers c. that if they could finde fauour in the eies off the Magistrate they might escape the handes off death which the lawe off God adiudged them vnto howe cometh it to passe that the Apostels to whom the Lord committed the publishing off all that pardon which he obteined for vs did neuer make mention off the slacking of these punishements Yf our Sa. Christe had obteined this libertye yt was worthye the preachyng And therfore onles the A. can shew something owt off the vvrytinges off the Apostels to vvarrant this sanctuarye vvhich he would so faine build to the support off blasphemers murtherers c. yt followeth that the Apostles by his
men beare witnes that bothe here and almoste euery where yow wringe my wordes clean contrary to my meaninge and therin I am well contente the Iudgemente remain with the reader And althowghe I am fully perswaded that ther was no occasion taken off euill by this doctrine yet if any weare it beinge the doctrine of the holy Goste whoso euer hathe taken occasion of euill hathe without repentance borne his punishemente and so shall yowe moste assuredly in that daye wherin the mouthe off wickednes shall be stopped Yt maie not be passed by that he in the begininge of the firste of thes sections matched the lawes off the Iewes whiche were the lawes gyuen by God him selfe vvithe the lawes of the moste barbarous and Prophane Tyrant that euer was suche is the reuerece he beareth to the lawes of god Note also that where I saie that I vvill ioyne vvithe him that the transgressions off the lavve vnder the gospell are to be seuerelyer punished then they vvere vnder the lavve He in pretendinge and makinge a brage that he woulde ioyne slyppethe me clean a syde and saythe that he will ioyne withe me that the magistrate is not bounde to the iudiciall lawe off Moses for the manner off punishinge as thowghe that were any thinge like that whiche I propounded And in that he answerethe no one worde to the two reasons whiche I alledged that is to saye for that bothe the knovvledge off the lavve is greater novve then thē and other gyftes off the spirite off God vvherby the lavve shoulde be better kepte more aboundantly povvred oute novve then then he dothe not onely slyppe a side but turnethe his blinde partes towardes me Nowe to returne backe to the Diuis pag. 123. I leaue to the iudgement off the reader howe importunate an aduersarie the D. is vvhich requireth answer of that which hath been so often answered In the next Diuis p. 124. seeking to mainteine his logicke in diuiding and defining he maketh him selffe pytifull to all that euer saluted that scoole For what an absurd saying is yt that becawse the definition off a generall thing agreeth vnto his particular therfore yt is the definition off the particular As though euery thing vvhich vvere verefied of an other were by and by the definition off it or as thoughe the same coulde be the definition of the generall and of the speciall And what a miserable defence of his diuisiō is yt which to proue that his three last partes are not conteined vnder the first alledgeth that they are not all one with the first But as I promised I will leaue this to the learned reader that I leese not the tyme in confuting off these tryfles The rest off his section is answered before In the next beside the sentence which I denie and he vntruly fathereth off Zuing. that in Ceremonies thinges are to be vsed in the church which are not conteined in the scriptures ▪ There is nothing which maketh any thing vnto the questiō For where he saieth that I mislike that of Zuing. If they be not repugnant to the vvord I haue tould him before that I neuer found fault with that but becawse he condēned the Ad. which will haue thē caste in the mould off the word off god And as for Maister Bezaes sentence repeted here off discipline left in the order off the church and that some thinges doon off the Apostles are not alvvaies to be follovved off vs whereby it seemed the D. would make the reader belieue that he meaneth this off the pointes of discipline nowe debated yff I should herein charge him with vntrue dealing vppon Maister Bezaes booke off epist. Which declareth in so many places and wordes that there is a Discipline off God left vnto his churche vnchangeable and precisely determined in the word off God and howe he maketh the partes thereoff the same which the D. fighteth against with might and maine he would paraduenture saie that he could take no notice off that which was not yet brought to light But when the same booke from whence he drewe thes outorities mainteneth those partes off discipline towching the Eldershipp the consent off the church in Eccesiasticall elections the right institution off Deacons c. as necessarye which he will haue arbitrarie he owght to haue vnderstanded that those thinges which M. Beza noteth vnder the name off Discipline left at the order off the church are nothing lesse then these which he would insinuate Which he might yet easelier haue vnderstanded by the place which he alledgeth out off the Corinthes that leaueth yt not in the churches power ether who shall gouerne or what they ought to doo which must gouerne but howe that gouernement which is prescribed may be vsed most decently in regard off circumstance off time c. For euen in that place the Apostle defining off certen pointes of discipline as that vvemen ought not to speake in the church c. declared sufficiently that he ment not to leaue the gouernement off the church in her owne disposition and order But what M. Beza ment by this arbitrarie Discipline yt shall yet better appeare in the next tractate off the Election off the church where this here spoken generally shall there belaied open by example the reste off this Diuis is answered In the next Diuis I leaue yt to the iudgement off the reader whether I haue truly gathered off his wordes As for the defense he maketh to proue Truly and Purely all one for so he must if he mainteine his answer the first reason he bringeth that a man may preache true thinges and not truly is cleane ouerthrowne by his owne answ for to ouerthrowe that which he falsely attributeth vnto the Adm. that the word is not truly preached becawse the Ministers are not duely called he saithe that the reason is not Good becawse ho we wicked soeuer the man be which preacheth yet he may preache the true word off God. Here ether the Ans must make to preache true thinges and to preache truly all one or els he hath not answered to the argument he supposeth the Adm. to vse The other is for that S. Paul vseth these wordes in truthe for syncerely Wherein beside the former fault which is the contrarietie with him selfe he should haue learned that that maner off speach is taken off the Ebrues which as they call a lie not onely that which is spokē but that which is doon or imagined against the truthe so likewise contrary Which maner off speach not being receiued in our tounge is fondly and out off time pretended considering also that the translatiōs in our tounge as in others haue shunned that phrase as that which they could not reache vnto Tract 2. and 3. according to the D. Off election of the minister Cap. 1. Diuis 1. Off the Tryall off ministers in learning and conuersation THe replie standeth vpon the certeine and vnfallible grounde off the worde off God which is that the
examination be necessary for a deacon yt is muche more necessary for the minister againste that he saide that the fixt off the Actes coulde not serue to proue any thinge touching the ministers election because yt was off deacons he answerethe not but passethe by quietly and maketh no wordes But his other sayinge that there is no mention made off any tryall he holdethe still for good askinge me what one worde off tryall is there I answere that albeit there be not this worde trie yet ther is that which wayeth as muche for the greake worde loke ovvte can not be seuered from a triall And if S. Luke had but vsed the symple verbe which in our tounge signifieth consider yet that off yt selffe had force to haue leade the chusers to a tryall off them which were to be chosen nowe vsinge the compounde thereby he laide vppon them a greater necessitie and a more carefull diligence off triall off them Where iff the Aposteles had not mente herby to haue called the church to a diligente serche and tryall off those which were to bee choosen they woulde haue contented them selues to haue saide take from emongest you c. And althoughe the whole churche had knowledge off those which were the fittest to be chosen to that office which is bothe vnlike and almoste impossible seinge there were certeine thowsandes off late added vnto the churche yet euen those which are well knoweÌ„ vnto vs when they be to be chosen vnto suche great charges are to be inquired into a freshe For that knowledge off a man whiche is sufficiente for vs to liue with him in priuate societie and common course off life is not enoughe to promote him to suche a dignity in the churche and that experience off one vppon confidence wheroff wee durste truste him with our weightiest affaires is not sufficiente thereupon to commit vnto him the lordes matters So that consideringe the weighte off an ecclesiasticall office the manifolde creuisses off mans dissimulation with the dullnes off our sighte to espie them there can be no feare off too muche triall eueÌ„ off those whiche we thinke we knowe already And therfore allthoughe the whole churche had knowledge off those which were apte for that office yet the Apostels admonition off diligent considering whome they chose which coulde not be withowt tryall was not owte off time Againe that the Apostels giue in charge vnto the churche that they shoulde chose suche as had testimonie off there good behauiour perteineth to the examination for the churche in seking testimonie off there good conuersation tried them what they where And vnles this be tryall towching the conuersation off him which is to be chosen minister in the churche of England there is no tryall at all considering that the triall which is had is by the testimonie off certeine So I conclude that this place off the actes makinge for the examination off the Deacon is muche more stronge for the examination of the minister To the nexte section I answere not Diuis 4. What is in the begining off the boke because you set it not downe and I haue not the boke to see I will leaue to euery one to consider Howbeit the wordes which I alledge owte off yt where speaking to the Archedeacons he saithe Take heede that the persons vvhom you presente vnto vs be apre and meerâ— c. declare that the bishope passethe his election vppon the only examination off his Archedeacon But yt makethe no great matter howe many examine seinge the election and ordination hangeth only vppon the Bishoppes pleasure And he partly seinge that all the matter standeth in the courteousie off the Bishoppe and partly as yt semeth willinge that that gowlfe shoulde swallowe vpp all other mens interrestes in this election setteth him selfe to proue yt And where as I alledged that yt is not safe in so vveightie a mater to coÌ„mit that to the powre of one vvhich may be vvith lesse daunger doone by many he goeth abowt to proue that the bishoppe is off all other fittest for that matter Wherin obserue that the D. is quyte goone from the cause For the question is not whether he be off others most fytt but vvhether yt be fytt that he alone shoulde doe it So that if he will haue it a reasone againste the cause this yt is The bishoppe is more hable then any one to make a good examination therfore more hable to make yt then a great sorte more hable to make yt then any one therfore more hable to make yt alone then when he hath other ioyned with him Which is all one as iff he shoulde haue saide The righte hande is more apte to doe thinges then the lefte therfore yt is better they be doone by yt alone then with the helpe off the lefte I doe not here take exception againste the longe experience in thes thinges which he saithe the bishoppe hathe yet he cannot haue it at his first orderiÌ„ge of ministers aÌ„d others mighte haue yt as wel as he if the examinatioÌ„ were as well permitted vnto theÌ„ as vnto him I medell not also with the bishopes either sounde learning or ruled affections which what they be in some is well knowen what theye maye be consideringe that they be not tied to the rochet yt is easie to be considered Let him be as well experienced learned affected as suche a bishopp maie be yet hath he wonne nothinge by all this but that the bishopp owght not to be shute oute in this examination Where he saithe Surely if any one man or mo be voyd off such affefections and thought meet to haue such matters committed vnto him yt is the Bishopp yt had bene good he had assured that Surely with some reason otherwise yt must as yt is be holden for an vnshamfaste begging of that which is denied And off the same sorte is that which followeth that if he be worthie the office off a bishope he maie safely be credited with al thinges incideÌ„t vnto the same for this is that which lieth between vs whether yt be incident to the office off a bishoppe to haue thonely examination off those which are chosen to the ministerie Which yff I coulde geue you I woulde to be ridd off thes importunat askinges Yâ— followethe not because ciuill matters whiche touche the commoditie off this liffe maie be committed to one therfore ecclesiasticall also whiche concerne the liffe to come maie be so hazarded Nay for so muche as maÌ„s insighte into ciuille affaires and iudgement in them is sharper then in matters perteininge to the churche it is cleare that there ye more helpe required in thes then in the other Besides that when as princes by takinge counsailes vnto them in their weightie affaires off the whole realme and for better deciding off priuate mens causes appoincte whole beâ—ches off Iustices standing off fiue or sixe they doo sufficiently declare therby howe they haue the Iudgement off one be he neuer so wise
that they bringe tyranny vnto the churche vvhiche vvithovvte the coÌ„sent of the multitude at their one pleasure call any vnto a publike function in the churche yt is moste manifeste that maister Beza holdethe this for an other substantiall poincte off a lawfull Ecclesiasticall electioÌ„ in a church established that yt be made with the peoples coÌ„sente So that yt appearethe that the election made by the Bishope alone receiueth off Maister Beza twoo deadly woundes as yt were in the harte and in the heade one for that it is not as well done by the authorite off the Eldershipe as by the bishoppe or pastor an other bicause yt is not done by the consente off the churche Nowe what doe wee require in the election off Ecclesiasticall officers which Maister Beza dothe not wee require that yt be not permitted to one he detestethe it as tyrannie we saie that yt oughte to be done by the elder shipe and by consente at the leste off the people he saithe the same What are the thinges then vsed in the Apostels elections that M. Beza saithe may be altered and wheroff there is no certeine rule prescribed whiche the churche is allwaies bounde to followe forsouthe thes thinges as may be easely gathered that where sometimes the people vppon particular occasions did first chuse and the approbation off the gouernours did followe other some times and for the moste parte the gouernours wente before and directed the iudgementes off the people that in this circunstance the churche shoulde be at her libertie to order and vse whiche off theis waies she shoulde thinke moste fâ—tte hauinge regarde to the times and other circumstaÌ„ces whiche mighte moue to take ether the one or the other Againe where the GreciaÌ„s vsed in their elections the cerimonie off holdinge vpp the hande to testifie their liking off him that was chosen other as the Romains goinge from one syde vnto an other Whereoff cam pedibus ire in sententiam others by silence did approue that whiche was propounded that in thes and suche lyke the churche mighte vse that ceremonie whiche is bothe receiued in that place and leste subiecte to slaunderous speache And that whiche the Answ hathe browghte here dothe especially belonge vnto this and is geuen off M. Beza where he shewethe that the manner off the Asians was to testifie there consente by liftinge vp of handes But off what thinges so euer in the election that rule is giuen Yt can by no means take awaye the election from the Eldershipe off euery churche nor the peoples consente to put all in the Bishopes hande Seinge that as hathe bene shewed he makethe these twoe substantiall poinctes off a lawfull ecclesiasticall election And if the Answ will accorde vs those wee shall soone agree for the reste Vppon all this matter I leaue to the reader to esteme howe ether vncircunspectly or vnfaithfully M. S. hath not borowed but taken awaye whether Maister Beza wil or no his senteÌ„ces to ouerthrowe that whiche he so often times and in so vehement wordes so plainly dothe establishe Nowe for your questions yowe praie me to answere althowghe they come so often that yow maye aptelier be called the Questioner then the Ansvverer and that I neede not by any order off disputation be driuen to speake to suche flying demaundes yet I am contente to let yow vse this aduantage off venting them after this sorte which yow can not put in any forme off argument and whiche beinge a litle streighte girte shrinke a waie or euer they come to be examined But I muste praie yow also that where yowr questions be no weightier yow will be contente that I answer them as shortly as yow propownde them Albeit I haue in effecte answered them already in this section I saie therfore that where the Apostles in the firste off the Actes good before the reste off the churche and directe them that is the moste conuenient waie for ordenary elections as that whiche was bothe moste vsed in the Apostolicall elections and whiche is borne vp by apparante reason whiche is that they shoulde shewe the waie to others which are likeste to knowe it best And wheras the people present firste and then the Apostels approue after for as muche as that roose of a particular occasion whiche was for that the Apostels dealing was somewhat suspected as not altogether indifferent but to muche bending to the poore off theire one nation yf the lyke case shoulde fall the like remedy may be vsed beside that that election off the Deacons might be more safely committed vnto the people then that off the pastors the people being more able to iudge off their abilitie in disposing off the mony then off the knowledge required for the preaching off the word The casting off the lottes for so muche as yt was to this ende that the election off an Apostle shoulde be immediatly from God and not by any mans voice that consideratioÌ„ ceassing the lot also in ecclesiasticall elections howesoeuer yt semeth otherwise to some owghte to die In the sixt off the Actes the imposition of handes being vsed in all elections by the churche and hauig a profitable aduertisement that he whiche is ordeined is sett a parte from the rest for the seruice off the churche and that from thence forthe he muste not serue him selffe and his but the churche and conteining also an assurance off the lordes hande and helpe alwaies readie in assisting of him muste needes be holden still for ordenary to be vsed in all elections The praier be fore the lot in the 1. of the Actes being expressedly vsed in all elections And being nowe by so muche more necessary then it was then as the habilitie is lesse nowe in the chusers then yt was then muste needes be thoughte a paterne to frame owre elections by And where yow saie ther was no suche thinge as praier in the 〈◊〉 off the Actes yt is a token yow haue litle truthe in yow whiche will denie that whiche is expressed manifestly in the texte for although S. Luke doeth not declare what were the wordes they vsed yet there being praier made for them there was suche a thinge That in the 1. Act. twoo were presented for one office that was that waie mighte be made to the deuine election by lotte that one onely was taken was becawse there was but one place voide That in the sixte of the acres 7. were presented was becawse the church was thowght to haue neede off so manie for the prouysion off their poore that all were ordeined was for that the Apostels liked well off them all Be there yet any more behinde I loked when yow shoulde saye that in the firste off the actes there was a bowte sixe score in the sixte almoste six thowsande there but eleuen Apostles here twelue there speaking withe one tonge here with many For the matters in controuersy that is to saie whether the peoples consente is to be had c.
Thes differences woulde haue serued yow as well as those and possiblie yf they had taken yow in the heade yowe woulde neuer haue let them goe withowt giuing some tribute to the lengthening off your boke But in all this diuersitie yow recken vp there is a perpetual harmonie againste the election made by one bishope againste the ambition off the elder which thrusteth owte his fellowe elders against the church robbers especially which bende ther force to spoile the people of ther consente in election off their ministers Yf yowe had shewed any diuersitie in this yow mighte haue helped your cause somewhat To those which are bleare eide one light semeth two and ther fore to M. D. which hathe the eie sight off his minde scattered they seme to differ which agree well together I well remembred what I wrote and yt hathe not the weighte off a feether to ouertourne the election off the minister by the people For yt followethe not because one deacon is inferior to the pastor therfore the whole churche is inferior to ether the pastor or the deacon or the deacon may not chuse the pastor therfore the whole churche may not chuse him But this had bene wel concluded one deacon is inferior to the pastor therfore muche more one of the people ād one decon can not chuse a pastor therfore muche lesse one off the people Which mighte haue bene casely considered by proportion off the bodye which S. Paule dothe so often poincte owte the estate off the churche by For sett a parte the heade which is our sauiour Christe and ther is no one parte so noble or so necessarie but being compared together with all the partes off the bodie that are vnder yt it giueth place and is inferior vnto them And it may be shewed by example that they that in a societie be equall yea superior vnto any one in that societie are notwithstanding inferior to the whole Peter and Iohn were equall vnto any two in the whole colledge off the Apostels and yet they were inferiour to the whole companie off the Apostels For beinge sente off them they muste be inferiour to those that sente them and being Ambassadors from them they receiued commaundement Paul and Barnabas were by their dignitie off Apostleship superior to any whiche were in the churche off Antioche and inferior to the whole churche for the cause before alledged Furthermore wee doe not permit the choise off the pastor to the people onely but to the choise off the eldership so that althoughe the people alone shoulde not be superior vnto the pastor yet all together are which haue to doe in that election And althoughe thes thinges are so plaine that they coulde not lightly be hyddē from him that hathe but moued his lypp to the cuppe of sounde diuinitie yet maister D. standeth still amased merueiling as he that hauing stepte manie years whē he awaked thowghte al thinges straunge Thes are the knowē lawes of the howse where yow were borne where also yow vndertake professiō of Do. yt is a great fault that yow are a straūger at home The peoples examinatiō off their ministers especially standeth in their behauiour And seinge in the churche off God from him that cleaueth wood to her which grindethe in the mill ther is none so ignorant but knowe and can giue reason off principall poinctes off the Christian religion the Elders which be the flowre off the church can much lesse be so ignorant as yowe make them Naashe the Amonyte meaning to dishonour the people off God thowghte yt reproche enoughe to the Gilcades yf he mighte haue put owte their right eies and althowghe a barbarous and cruell enemie off the people off God yet woulde haue satisfied him selfe with that but yow are not cōtente with that onles yow put owte bothe their eies and leaue them as blinde and ignorant bussardes Thes reproches off ignorance so oftētimes caste vpon the people off God are not spoken with the toūge off Canaan but is the proper dialecte off the Papistes and yt is reprochefull not vnto men but vnto the sonne off God whose bodie the churche is and whereoff he is the heade The prophet speaking off churches which should be gathered vnder the gospell saithe that the earthe shall be full of the knowledge off God as the waters vvhich couer the sea the accomplishment wheroff maie appeare in all places where there is any teaching minister which dothe the office of a faithfull pastor I coulde a great deale easelier beare the reproches which you vtter againste me but vvhen I heare yow thus raile vppon the lordes hoste so indefinitely speakīge of the churches of God yow are vntollerable yet if I shoulde speake againste this as oft as yow giue occasion I shoulde neuer haue doone And if nether yow vvill ceasse this language nor those that shoulde looke vnto yt vvill stope this incircumcised mouthe I vvill commit the cause vnto the lorde and vvaite for his iudgement Off the meanes of an exacte examination off the habilitie off the pastor with owte the helpe off the lorde bishoppe is spoken in an other place vvhere shall be examined vvhat the D. hath to saie It hathe appeared howe vntrwe yt is that the Deacō is superior or hathe moe giftes thē the reste of the bodie of the churche And besides that yt shall appeare in place a moste absurde sayinge that the deacon is aboue that elder which I meane for I meane the same vvhich S. Paule meaneth ther was no occasion at all here to speake off the superioritie off a deacon vnto a senior For ether he owghte to proue a deacon aboue a pastor or els he hathe saide nothinge to that vvhiche is in question In the 308 page the Bishoppe is auowed to be a Pastor here he is Superior to a Pastor and therfore no Pastor for there can be no comparison but betwene twoo thinges at the leste ād yt is very strange that a man shoulde be higher then him selffe So that to defend these bishops and Archebishops the Ans hath neede haue a newe grammer and a newe logicke for they transcende and goe beionde all the rules that euer yet vvere hearde of I knowe what is vsed with vs but is that a sufficient answer is this yowr defense off the booke I proue him to be deacō and yow can not denie it therupō I cōclude that he is inferior to the pastor and yow saie I knowe an archdeacon withe vs maie be minister off the worde But the Question is not vvhat he is but what he maie be by the vvorde off God for yow owghte to haue shewed that a man may haue the order off pastor and deacon at once For yf he be but a deacon and no pastor then beinge inferior to the Pastor he owghte not by him selfe alone iudge of the sufficiencie off a Pastor yf he be bothe a Deacon and a pastor at once then in steade off ministers yow bringe monsters
affyrme that the example off the Apostles in layinge on of handes vpon hym which ys to be ordeined coun terualleth a commaundement and owght to be folowed And if where I haue said the doinges of the Apostles owght to be folowed in the gouernment of the churches he aske how I answere that that they did in especiall cases then is to followed vvhen suche cases fall those which they did ordinarily and generally to be ordinarily and generally followed Those thinges which they did in founding off churches and before they were established to be in life maner vsed those which they did when the churches were established to be in the same maner ordered And to enter yet further into this matter Where he saithe that the argument is nothing worth which is drawen of the facte of the Apostle by the same reason he also condemneth argumentes browght of the factes of our Sauiour Christ and muche more of all other holie men and Prophetes Wherof the scripture is full as when our Sau. Christ proueth that it was lawfull in some case to breake the corporall reste of the Sabothe by the example off Dauids eating of the shew bread As when he excused him selfe that he did not worke his miracles in Nazareth where he was nourished vp rather then in Capernaum and other places by the examples off Elias and Elizeus by which he tawght that a man may attempte nothing without a vocation all these argumentes if M. D. had had the answeringe of them he would as it semeth haue said vnto our sauiour Christ that they are nothing worth I graunt there be some actes of our Sauiour Christ and other godlie men in the scripture vvhich being commendable in them would not be so in vs they hauinge some either extraordinarie spirite or commaundement vvhich we haue not Off which sort Idowbte not but Maister Zuinglius mente this sentence which yow alleadge As would haue bene easely seene yf yow had quoted the place I think he hathe bene alledged ād quoted aboue fortie times before and neuer a sentēce that maketh either whot or coulde to the matters in controuersie or which might once prouoke me to look whether they were so or noo this onely place was somewhat materiall and here it is not quoted But to come againe to those extraordinarie factes I saie that as the spoilinge off the Egyptians by the Israelites at the commaundemēt off God and the killinge of Cosby and Zamry by Phinchas throwghe the inspiration off the spirite off God can not let vs from teachinge generally that theft is vnlawfull that the Magistrate only owght to punishe publike malefactors so those fewe Actes vvhich doon of our Sau. Christ the Apostles and other godlie men are not to be folowed off vs can not let vs to teache generally that there Godly deedes which lie in vs to doo owght to be followed And as I may reason notwithstanding those exāples that he is a thefe because he hath taken that vvhich an other hath labored for against his will and he is a murtherer because he hathe slaine a malefactor being no magistrate for that purpose so I may saie he dothe well for so our Sau. Christ did so did the patriarches and he dothe euill for our Sauiour Christ the Apostles the patriarches did otherwise in that case And he that shall denie this argument vvithowt shewinge some speciall and manifest reason Wherfore it was lawfull for the one to doo that vvhich was not for the other he is vnworthie to be a scholer in the diuinitie scooles much lesse Doctor Yf therfore the Ans would haue by any Good order put me from the possession of this place he should haue shewed that S. Paul of some speciall occasion which falleth not into our ministerie vsed this circumspection in taking suche a clowde off witnesses for the assurance off Timothies good behauior or that there is some generall rule and commaundement to the contrarie But that as he hathe not done so he can not doo there being no one stepp of any such either particular cause or generall rule either mentioned or to be gathered of that place or of any other scripture It must therfore be estemed that S. Paul did that of a generall equitie and common conuēience which owght to be vsed in such graue and weightie matters off the church Yea if M. D. Would haue a litle laid a syde his inordinate desyre off mainteining that which he hath once written he should haue founde iuster cause of this circumspection in our elections then in this For if S. Paul an Apostel endewed vvith suche a gift of discretion of spirites would not take Timothy vvhich had bene browght vpp from his cradell in the knowledge of the Scriptures and had liued in all commendation from his infancie Timothe I say whom he had now knowen as it may be verie probably shewed of some reasonable time into companye of his ministe rye withowt suche diligent circumspection how muche lesse may a Bishop in authoritie inferor vnto him in gifte of discerninge spirites not to be compared receyue into the mynistery vpon the Testymonie off one onelie a man vvhom he hathe not knowen before and vvhatsoeuer he be in knowledge of the word of God far behinde Timothy And yt is not to be let passe for further answere to that which ys alleadged owt of Zuinglius Of a deede or an example to make a lavv that yt hath bene shewed to haue bene the practise of all the Apostles at other tymes in there elections and therfore this is not of one facte to make a rule but off the continuull practise of the Apostles Moreouer by defense of receiuing at the testimony of one onely what doth he els then make as easie an entrance into the highest place off the church off God as a man off any calling and wisdome ioyned with yt would make into one of the least offices of his howse for surely if he haue any regarde vnto the good order of his howse and consider that the misbehauiour off his seruāte vvhom he vvill put in any trust reacheth vnto the dishonour of him selfe and his vvhole howshold he vvill neuer admit him vvhom he knoweth not vvithowt some one mans commendation off whom he is well assured But the law of God in this behalfe is most clere which to the deciding of a vveighty matter in dowbt requireth two witnesses and if it can be thre and namely where the iudgement is of bloude yt expresly forbiddeth that iudgement should passe vpon the Testimonye of one But in the iudgement of a minister where the question is of a great numbre of destruction of bodie and soule and that for euer shall it being dowbtfull be giuē vpō one mās testimonie how sufficient so euer he be Especially seing that there owght to be greater triall and more plentifull witnes in the churche matters thē in ciuil causes which may appeare further by that which S. Paul writeth vnto Tymothie Where he
the newe Testament Either yow be a great straunger in Grece or yow haue traueiled further into it then any man that I haue heard off I haue heard off a greke paraphrase vvhich is vvith some moo vvordes to bringe light to the texte as off the Scoliast and off Metaphrase which is to chaunge the profe into meter as Nonnus did S. Iohn but off a greke translation off the newe Testament I neuer heard But this vvas not off euill will and therfore I easelie forgiue yt yow The rules which S. Paul giueth in that chapter are not onelie to teache that he that is endued withe those qualities there described owght to be chosen to the Ministerie but also teache that those which haue them not should not be admitted and yf yf they be should be deposed And this yow might easely haue learned by common reason vvhich saith that there is the same knovvledge off contraries S. Peters and S. Paules admissions vnto the Apostleshipp was to be handled in the next section where I preuent these obiections and giue no occasion to speake off them here yet they are plucked in before the time and barely affirmed withowt any confutation off the reasons which I alledge What confusion is this and how lothsome repetitions are these I saye that one that hathe bene an adulterer should not be receiued into the ministerie I proue it for that S. Paule will not admit one to the ministerie that hath had two vviues at once And that it owght to be extended not onely to the tyme off his choise but also to the rest off his life I proue by that vvhich is said of the choise of the widowe where S. Paul makethe this one condition that she should be suche a one as hathe had but one husband at once and whiche had not bene maried vnto another after an insufficient diuorce For that that is the meaning off the Apostle althowgh Maister Caluinfolowed an other sense is verie plentifully and substantiallie shewed by M. Beza Wherupon I concluded if S. Paule would not admitte her to the lowest office in the church which at any tyme had two husbandes muche lesse his meaning was to admit to the cheiffest office in the churche one which at any tyme had had two wiues at once This the Answerer as thowghe he had neuer feene or hard off yt passeth by for what answereth he Forsoothe that he dowbteth not but the whoremonger if he repent c. may be admitted vnto the ministerie And if I should haue answered I doubt not the contrarie What then what answereth he further that S. Paules minde is not to seclude him that had two wiues or hathe bene a whoremonger c. I haue denied it and haue shewed the reason off the contrarie he hathe answered nothīg For wher he afterward speaketh of the widowe which be denieth can be said to haue ledd all her liffe in good workes he answereth not to that vvherin the point off the reason liethe which is that she ovvght not to be admitted vvhich hathe had more husbandes at once ▪ then one yff that be graunted vnto me it is sufficient for the purpose I alledged that place for Nether was it enowghe for yow to passe by my reason but yow must most shamefullie moue suspition vnto the reader off my fauoring off the popishe bigamie What likelihoode is there betwene whoredome or hauing two wiues at once with hauing two wines one after the deathe off an other or marying a vvidowe vvhich the Papistes call bigamie yff yow haue no feare of God before your eies ys there no reuerence off men The first off your reasons to proue that a knowen adulterer may be receiued into the ministerie is that S. Paule by forbidding to receiue vnto the ministerie one which had bene a whoremonger or which had two wiues at once should deale otherwise withe them then he was dealt withe all him selfe I gaue the reason off this in the section folowinge that our Sau. Christ hauing the law in his owne hande and making no law to him selffe but for vs might doo that which is not lawfull for the churche to doo whiche reason being neither answered here nor els where owght to haue staied yow frō this answer I gaue this weapō but I turned the edge of it ād made it flat yt was not therfore to warre vvithe all vnlesse yow had set a new edge This solution that it is not lavvfull for the churche nor for all the churches in there elections to doo that vvhiche vvas lavvfull for our Sauiour Christ yf it doo not plainlie enowghe appeare in the examples off these two Apostles it may be seene in the election off them all For it is not lawfull for any Apostle or for all the Apostles or for all the churches ioyned together to appointe any to the mynisterie vvhich is not fit for the mynisterie at the tyme when he is chosen vnto yt But our Sauiour Christ chose and apointed eleuen Apostles to preache throwghe owt the vvhole worlde when as they had but one onely tonge off the contrey where they were borne the charge wherunto they were appointed requiring the knowledge off many tongues And in this example off S. Paules calling vnto the mynisterie yt is clere that our Sau. Christ dealt otherwise then S. Paule deaiethe withe other For he was called to the Apostleshipp as sone as euer he was called to the churche whiche he forbiddethe by expresse wordes when he warneth that he be no nevv plante that is to saye latelie come to the knowledge off the trewth vvhich is to be taken to the ministerie So that yow see S. Paule dealethe otherwise withe other ministers then he was dealt withall himselfe The next reason is that we reade off none deposed from their ministerie in the new testament althowghe they were founde in manie thinges giltie is it not lawfull for vs to reason against the vnlawfullnes off a thing for that yt is not in none off bothe the testamentes neither directly not indirectlie neither expressedly nor conteinedly and shall yow conclude negatiuely vppon the examples onelie off the new Testament The new Testament makethe mention off notable Harlots and those also whiche were off the churche and yet yt makethe no mention that either they receiued any ciuill or ecclesiasticall correction therfore by your reason notable Harlots are not to be punished either with ciuill or ecclesiasticall correction But Christ knewe Iudas to be a traytor and yet he did not depose him so he knewe him to be a traitor when he chose him Therfore if this be a good reason that a traitor to God and the gospell should not be deposed it hathe the same force to proue that a traitor may be chosen to the ministerie Moreouer Iudas was admitted to the lordes supper therfore if this reason will serue to proue that a traitor should not be deposed yt is good to proue that he may be also receiued to the lordes
and Doctors as thowghe it belōged vnto the churche and the churche had put yt ouer vnto them Yt is enoughe for me that the churches subscription was there and that not for a cyphre Therfore althowghe S. Luke for shortnes sake did call yt the decree off the Apostels and Elders yet S. Paule whiche gaue them to the churches and whiche in other places standeth so muche vppon the authoritie off the churches to stoppe the mowthe off the contentious did not by all likelihood omyt the authoritie off the churche to gyue them the more grace withe the churches vnto the whiche he delyuered them The Ans whiche will proue nothinge him selfe but off whome wee muste take all moste althinges at his bare worde hathe notwithstandinge a great grace in settinge me to proue all thinges be they neuer so manifeste Let him then vnderstande that this whiche he requirethe profe off is confirmed by the authoritie off maister Cal. and maister Bulling The manner off speache also is in Liuy where the consul is sayed to set vp an other consul into the place off him whiche was dead when he did yt not by his owne authoritie onely but by voices off the Senate and people Yf the Answ coulde haue firste gyuen his reader a drinke off the riuer off forgetfulnes to haue made him forgette what he owghte to proue peraduenture this talke off his mighte haue some ende but iff he carie in minde that he hathe to proue that almoste al ecclesiasticall writers doo affirme the word liftihg vp of handes to be vsed in the scriptures for the solemne manner off ordeining ministers by imposition off handes and not for the election by voices I say iff he cary this in minde he shall perceiue easely howe idle for the moste parte this talke is And verily all thes authorities here browghte are either vaine or directly againste him selffe or in sufficient to proue that whiche he vndertaketh For to what pourpose are here alledged two places owte off maister Caluin two Canons gyuē to the Apostels and the Testimonie off Ierome They proue that lftiing vp off handes is taken in ecclesiasticall writers for imposition off handes whiche is confessed by me in plaine wordes But to the perfourmance off your promise that almoste all the ecclesiasticall writers affirme that this worde is so taken in scripture yet there is not one syllable In this rancke also off idle testimonies is that whole section off maister Gualter For I confessed him to thincke that the word was so taken but yet so that withall he ioyneth the election off the people by voices Whiche the Answ woulde by that signification off the worde ouerthrowe So that all thes browght in off the D. looke another waie then he woulde haue them That the Canons attributed vnto the Apostels make not to proue the sole election off a bishoppe shall be discussed after here it is onely sufficiente to haue shewed that they make not to proue that whiche the Ans alledged them for Wherin I meruaile also what he meaneth to aske leaue of me that yt may be as lawfull for him to vse them as it is for me as if I had vsed them otherwise thē I owght I neuer vsed them as the naturall canons of the Apostels I haue shewed that they are not nor can not be theirs but as the Canōs off other Councels where amongest the bad there are founde some good And I neuer vsed them but where I confirmed by Testimonie off the worde off God that vvhich I bringe them witnesse for Therfore this phrase beinge vsed thrise or fowre times withowte all occasion argueth hym to be a vaine trifler whiche becawse he hathe nothing to answere gyueth hym selfe the bridle to forge and surmise all maner off vntrwthes And where by this preface yt semeth the man woulde haue stricken this matter as dead as a dore naile yet hauing leaue to vse them he hathe not so muche as once come neere vnto the matter ▪ onely he hathe gained some fewe lines to encrease his confused heape The next rancke is of those whiche are not onely not profytable but directly hurtefull vnto his cause In whiche number is the witnes off Maister Bull. that vvorde vvhich signifieth lifting vp of handes is so placed that vve may vnderstande either that they vvere chosen by voice off the people or ordeined by laying on off handes especially if he had added the fowre next wordes I thinke bothe vvere doone Wherby appearethe that Maister Bullingers opinion is that bothe the churches chose by voices and the Apostels laied on their handes which directly ouerthrowethe the Answ For his answer is suche that onles the worde doo onely signifie there the ceremonie off imposition off handes and not the election by voices yt goethe to the grownd therfore Maister Bulling sayinge that boothe were doone in this place there coulde be no flatter testimonie againste hym then yt And where he cyteth Maister Bullinger that he is elected by common suffrages off the People vvhiche is chosen by the testimonie off the beste I knowe good reader thow merueileste not that it comethe owte off tyme for that is his ordenarie but doest thow not meruaile what misticall rethoricke hathe seperated so farr a sonder this sentence from the other whiche he before alledged Leue to meruaile there is no greate arte in it but there is some crafte For if thow gyue heed vnto him yt may appeare yt was onely to couer the trechery whiche he vsed in takinge bothe that whiche goethe before ād that whiche cometh after leuing quite owte those wordes by me alledged whiche stande in the myiddest off those two sentences marringe his whole marcket And becawse yt woulde haue to palpably appeared if he had doone yt in one and the same place he makethe thē to come as it were strangers owte off two seuerall countries that dwell harde together For the sentence it selfe what would he trowe yow conclude That the bishope muste haue the election yf it be not that I knowe not wherfore yt is browghte Yf he meane to vse yt therun to then muste off necessitie Maister Bullinger speake thus that he is elected by the commō suffrages off the people whiche is approued by the testimonie off the beste bishops Doe yow lawghe at thes thinges when the D. is in so good earneste Seinge he seeth that both the testimonie off the Scripture ād writers oulde and newe Papistes onely excepted gyue intereste off election vnto the people yet rather then yt shoulde fall from the bishopps he maketh a metamorphosis and change off the Bishoppes into the people The meaninge off Maister Bullinger if any coulde be so ignorāte as not to vnderstand is that the faithfull onely haue intereste in the election off the churche and that the Papistes haue not nor owghte not to haue to doo in it nether any other heretickes and scismatickes from the churche Whatsoeuer yt be yt can be by no means drawne to preiudice the
shoulde be mēte Therfore if yow had spared that cauil yow mighte haue bene cleare of two moe errors which yow are fallen into by affirminge partly that S. Luke by the worde lifting vp off handes signifieth the whole solemnitie of creatinge ministers which can not be true seinge he expresseth two other parts off yt whiche are praier and fastinge partly in affirminge that he dothe in the wordes off laying on off handes all waies vnderstande the bare layinge on off handes onely when as in two off those places whiche I haue alledged it maie appeare that by those wordes is noted not onely the puttinge on off handes but also the praiers whiche were made for the receiuinge off the giftes off the holie goste Which thinge expressed in an other place to haue bene done by Peter and Iohn we must esteme obserued at othertymes Yf I had not browghte the place off the Actes the A. had had nothinge to saie to that I alledged of Saint Lukes borowinge this phrase not off those which came many yeares after but of those which were before But seinge destitute off yowr owne yow are entred vppon my possession againste my will and so also that yow vvill thruste me owte let yt be sufficient that yow haue eased yowr selfe heere a vvhile I saie therfore that this place maketh againste yow in that this vvorde in that place signifieth not a layinge on off handes vppon the heades off the chosen but a chusinge by voices consideringe that wee reade plainly that he chose his Apostels by voice Let vs heare now how it maketh against vs Firste becawse the word is not there taken for liftinge vpp off handes but for appoinctinge and ordeining As who shoulde saie yt is not vsuall vnto the scripture and to all speaches by figure in one parte to note the whole ād therfore S. Luke by that one forme off election passed by the céremonie off liftinge vp off handes notethe this election whiche was made by voce off our Sauiour Christe yt maye be also applied vnto other electiōs wherin by goinge from one syde to another or by writinge his voice in a table the consente off the chuser is vttered So dothe the scripture by bondes and chaine vvhiche are particular kindes off restrainte note all manner off restraincte off libertie althowghe a man haue nether bondes nor chaine 's a bowte him So that that which is so often saide in the gospel simply off our Sauiour Christes chusing his Apostels S. Luke did here in figure not without greate grace vtter Where yow saie that by this means yt signifieth not to ordeine by suffrages in deede in this place yt can not consideringe that our Sauiour Christe was but one But vvhere yow vvoulde conclude therof that Paule and Barnabas by their voices onely chose the ministers and elders Yt is further a sunder then euer yow can sett together heere yow muste be admonished that where the moste off yowr witnesses did forsake yow before yow beheere forsaken off them all For there is neuer a one off the newe vvriters especially named of vs bothe but vppon that place off the Aces hathe in plaine wordes approued the election by the churche Secondly the person off our Sauiour Christe whiche chose with whome none mighte be ioined in commission and the person off the Apostels whiche coulde not be chosen of any but off God did sufficientlie off them selues withowte further addition argue the sole election off our Sauiour Christe But in the 14. Actes seinge nether the Apostels vvhiche did chuse vvere suche as mighte not be accompanied off the churche nor the Mynisters that were chosen off suche degree as mighte not likewise fall into the choise off the churche and consideringe also that all the elections off the ministerie spoken off before in whiche the Apostels had to doo vvere by consente of the churche yt is cleare that if S. Lukes meaninge had beene to tye this election as streighte vnto Pau. and Barn. as the other to our Sau. Christe he woulde haue put in vvordes vvhich mighte as clearly haue declared that meaninge in this as the circūstances of the persons doo in the other Thirdly if this worde whiche notethe the choise by voices shoulde be restreined vnto Paule and Barnabas then also the vvorde vvhich declareth that they praied shoulde onelye be restreined vnto them for as that is gyuē vnto them so is this Nowe if it be absurde to saie that in those publike praiers Paule and Barnabas onely praied yt is as absurde to saie that they onely chose and the same may be saide off fasting For that which followethe vvith fastinges is all one as if he had saide fasting sauinge onely that S. Luke for elegancy sake and to a voide the multitude of participles comminge so thicke turned the verbe into the nowne so that for so much as Paule and Barnabas did not onely faste but the churche also yt muste followe that they chose not onely but the churche vvith them Therfore as S. Luke in saying that Paule and Barnabas praied and fasted meaneth not that they praied and fasted onely but that they wente before the reste in gouerning those Ecclesiasticall actions euen so in sayinge that they chose by voices he meaneth not that they chose alone withowte the churche but that they guyded and directed the iudgementes off the churche Laste off all seinge that all the twelue to gether woulde not enterprise to doo any thinge off their priuate autoritie vvithowte consente of the churche muche les can yt be thowghte that Paule and Barnab woulde attempt yt Hereto make an end of this dispute I will answer that vvhich is brought off this vvord p. 163. And first I deny that euer I saide that this word by it selfe withowte ioininge any thinge vnto yt signifieth election off many by voices for yt can not signifie any thinge vnles yt be ioyned with somethinge These vvordes off the churches althowghe they declare of vvhome the election vvas made yet they are not added to note the manner of the election as the vvorde Act. 14. but to gyue credite vnto the embassadors vvith the churches vnto vvhich they wente that they mighte safely committe their monie vnto them for the behoufe of the churche off Ierusalem Therfore it is nothinge yow alledge that this addiciō off the churches had bene needles if the word liftinge vp off handes had signified off it selffe an election by voices For Sainte Paule shoulde not haue to the full aduanced their credite vvith the churches if he had giuen onely to vnderstande that they were chosen by voices of many considering that they were chosen not only by the voices of many men but by the voices off many churches Wheruppon I conclude that S. Luke Act. 14. vsed that word as the Grecians before him for electiō by suffrages and withal put him in minde that his certein and manifest thinges haue neither grownd to stand on nor light to shew them by
There are but two communities one Anabaptisticall which maketh equalitie off all thinges which is and euer was vnlawfull the other Christiā vvhich prouideth for neede of those vvhiche haue not vvherwith to finde them selues vvhich is and owghte to be perpetuall amongeste all Christians Therfore yow can not escape vvith this circuit of vvordes for either that communitie in the Actes vvas suche as owghte to be amongeste vs vvhiche yow denie and propounde as an absurde thinge or els it vvas Anabaptisticall vvhich is blasphemous againste the spirite off God. Althowghe men maie be good Christians withowte sellinge their landes and distributings of the price off them vnto those whiche haue nede yet they can not be good Christiās if for necessarie releife of the poore of the churche weroff they are they be not contente to sell the neede so requirring euen their landes And suche was the estate of the churche off Ierusalē vvhere there were so manie poore and so fewe riche that the vvante of those vvhiche had not vvith muche a doo vvas supplied by sale off landes and howses off them that had suche possessions Which extreme pouertie maie easely be seene in other places vvhere not hable to be fournished of the riche of that churche yt vvas faine to be supplied by diuers other Vnto the reasons alledged owte off S. Paule to proue that the same communitie is commaunded of him to all Christians yowe answere not one worde Vnto the vvhiche I vvill ad this that I doubte not but that vvhiche vvas doone there vvas so farre from oxtraordinarie doinge that yt vvas doone by the cōmaundemente of God in the lawe vvhere the lorde chargeth the Israelites that there shoulde be no beggers amongeste them For Saincte Luke seemeth to haue alluded to that place whē he saithe there vvas no needy amongeste them vvhich expresseth moste aptely the Hebrew worde which Moises vsethe That which I browghte off Ananias and Saphira was to proue there was no suche communitie amongeste them as yowr answer supposed and to glase vp the the windowes of Anabaptistry vvhich yow had opened And surely if the anabaptistes had as they neither haue nor can haue warrant of their communitie by this example off the moste pureste and ancientest church and in deede then the onely church in the worlde approued by all the Apostels replenished vvith the spirite off God they shoulde haue stronger houlde then M. D. shoulde euer be hable to pull from them I doo not thincke yow fauour the Anabaptistes communitie but partly seduced off others and partely overcaried vvith the violence off yowr affections yow are vnawars fallen into that errer vvherby the Anabaptistes grownde it Where I saide that all off the churche did not sell their possessions I confesse the worde possession was not so aduisedly put seinge therby is properly signified howse and lande and those which vvee call vnmouable goodes vvhiche Saint Luke saithe vvere solde off as many as had them But yet nothinge falleth of that for vvhich I did alledged yt and it is rather therby confirmed For shewinge that all owners off howse and land did sell them and not that euery one vvhich had other goods did the like therby is gyuen to vnderstande that not euery one which had monay or other mouables brought them vnto the Apostels The Adm. reason yow are not able to stir For yf S. Paul. For auoiding suspicion in a monay matter did communicate the election with the churches vvhy should he not to auoide suspicion off percialitie ambition and tyranny communicate with them the election off the ministers Surely he was as far from suspition off this couetous trechery with all men as from suspition off these faultes And so much farther as such excellent wittes and learninge as was in him are easelier ouercome off those other vices then off this pilferinge off monay which the grosser and vnlearned sorte for the moste parte offende in Na vvhy shoulde not S. Paule be in feare off this monay suspicion if he had taken vpon hym the election off the ministers shuttinge owte the churches Doo yow thincke that those which woulde haue doone hym that iniurie to thinke that he woulde haue turned the churche money vnto his owne vse which often times with his owne hande erned bothe his owne lyuing and others too vvhich refused the wages which he might iustly haue chalenged woulde not also haue suspected hym off the same faulte if he had chosen the ministers at his pleasure withowte consente off the churche Or doo yow not thincke that there are manie which suspecte diuers off the Bishopps that waie which saie that for a dishe of fruicte of the gouldē gaiffe they lease owte and make all manner off marchandise of the Lordes orchardes that he vvhich hathe no gifte in his harte yet if he haue a gifte in his hande neede no other keie to opē the church doore and enter into a benefyce Yf therfore for the auoidinge of suspiciō of corruption by moneie it was needeful for Sainct Paule to communicate the election off such ministers with the churche howe muche more was yt needefull for the auoidinge off bothe the suspition off that vice and diuers others he shoulde doo the like in the ordinary ministers And if that vvhere needefull in S. Paule for vpholdinge off his honeste estimation to the greater fruicte off the gospell I saie as I saide vvhat Archebishop shall dare take vppon him the makinge off a minister vvithovvte consente off the churche For if Saint Paules innocencie of life vvhich as the diamonte a peble stone might shame all the Archbishoppes that liue this daie had neede off this aide they muste off necessirie runne into suspicion off all those vices vvhiche contemninge the iudgemente off the churches make suche elections off their owne autoritie Where yow saie that Saint Paule mighte have chosen them him selfe if he woulde I saie that it is vntrue ād a manifeste begginge of that in controuersie And to saie so is asmuche as if yow had saide he mighte haue hazarded his good estimacion if he woulde and lefte it at the curteousye off quarellers which sowghte euery occasion of speakinge euil of his ministerie Beside that yow muste vnderstande that in the gouernmente of the churches the Apostels vvere gouerned by the spirite of God whose counsaile when this was it was no more lawful for him to refuse yt thē to disobey the lorde Touching the vntrewth he chargeth me with in that I saide the churche chose 1. Act. it is before answered And it is a vaine quarell of the A. that there was no election off the church becawse an Apostel maie not be chosen by men As thowghe I had not set downe before when I spake off that election that I mean not the choise which was made off one owte off those two but the choise off those two owte of the whole churche not that choise which determined the Apostellshipp but which determined who they shoulde stande
for the Apostelship And if no election of the church can be saide to haue beene in the fyrste off the Actes because an Apostell can not be chosen off any but off God alone then can not the Apostels which the D. affirmeth be saide to haue chosen Matthias and Barnabas owte of the reste off the churche In the 1. 2. 3. sections off this diuision he hathe filled vp allmost a whole side wherin ther is nothinge at all which either is not gone before or commeth not after and so grosly repeted withowte ether newe coate or newe colour that I meruaile he is not ashamed For the places Act. 1. 6. 14. for that also Cor. 8. 2. I haue replied before to the other answere shall be made in their places Now then to begin̄e with the falsifyinge yow charge me with I saie that althowghe I haue not gyuen yow the same wordes yet I haue gyuē yow the same weighte and I acknowledge yow for no M. of the tonge by whose autoritie I shoulde be bound to the same wordes which yow vse I haue not taken yow as yow doo me at the worste but I haue gyuen yowr wordes a fauorabler meaninge then they deserue bycause I perceiued that yow mente to comprehende Cyprians tymes althowgh yowr wordes euen to Cyprians time woulde not so well beare it yt is disputed whether this worde vntyll or vnto dothe shutte owte or shut in the tyme wheroff it is spoken but there was neuer I think anie that dowbted vvhether that sayinge in cōmon speach mighte be stretched owte beyonde that time wherunto it is particularly applied Notwithstanding yowr wordes are yet more restreintiue For yt restreineth more to saie euen to suche a time then to saie simplie vntill suche a time for that encrease off the worde euen makethe the wall off separation higher But nowe he seethe the vntrwthe off this sayinge he castethe yt vppon Maister Musc and he must beare the weighte off yt But suche moste grosse ignorance off the estate off the primitiue churche was farre from him And Maister Musc cleareth him selfe off it well For when he saieth that the election of the minister by the voices off the churche endured vnto Cyprians tyme he meaneth not as the D. to put difference betwene the elections made by the people and the bishopp but shewethe onely a difference betwene elections made by consente off the people withowte the magistrate and betwene the elections made by the consente of the people withe the confirmation off the Magistrate And that this is his meaninge yt maie easely appeare For pursuinge the profe of that election by the churche without the magistrate alledging certein Canōs thus he cōcludeth After this sorte therfore vvere the Elders bishops and deacons in times paste chosen vvhiche fashion they still reteined vntill the tyme off Christian magistrates vvhose consente vnto the election off the bishops vvas required Therfore this absurditie beinge the Ans owne he muste be contente to beare yt Yt makethe no matter that this forme of election was not in some fewe churches off the worlde in Cyprians time nether is it meruaile althowghe in some places at that time they had departed from the institution of the Apostolicall churche If it be proued that Cyprian teachethe that it owghte to be so and that it is Gods ordinance if all the churches had declined from yt as there were verie fewe Cyprian muste needes by that sentence disalowe them Althowghe I muste also admonishe yow that if those fewe examples in Cyprians tyme coulde preiudice the trwthe yet yowr bishops election is not confirmed therby for it mighte be doone by the eldershipe of the churche by assemblie off manie bishops moste vnlikeste is yt off all other that it vvas doone at the pleasure off one bishope Let vs therfore come to examine Cyprians iudgemente and see vvhether I haue reported trwly of him Firste as a trewante lothe to goe to scoole seeketh the furthest vvaie so the A. afraide off the lighte off Ciprians vvordes makethe entrance into this sentence by halfe a score lines vvhich mighte haue bene in one Heere good reader as the A callethe for thy diligence so if thowe gyue a litle heede thow shalte see suche open and violente peruertinge as coulde not be doone withowte cracke off conscience Firste therfore let vs holde that vvhich I thincke is accorded off both partes that Cyprians purpose is to withdrawe the people from communicatinge with the ministrie off those which had fallen from the gospell vnto Idolatrie To the confirmation vvheroff vvhen he had alleadged the greuousnes off that crime he addethe especially seinge the people haue povvre to chuse vvorthie and to refuse vnvvorthie ministers As if he shoulde saie if it vvere not in yowr powre to refuse those vnworthie ministers yow mighte haue some excuse or if beinge in yowr powre to refuse the vnworthie yow had not also powre to chuse another worthy yow mighte haue likwise somewhat for excuse For yow mighte alledge peraduenture that it vvere better to kepe him stil then to be vvith owte altogether or to haue a nother as euill or worse then he but seinge yow haue bothe power to refuse the vnworthly and to a chuse a nother there muste needes befaulte That this is the meaninge off Cyprian and his argumente wherwith he calleth them backe from communicatinge vvith the ministrie off those vvhich had fallen all vvhich can set the nominatiue case and verbe together muste needes vnderstande Nowe let vs see vvhether the exposition off the Ans vvill mainteine this sayinge To accorde him and Cyprian vve muste firste expounde thes vvordes to haue povvre to chuse and to haue povvre to refuse to be to stande by while they be chosen or refused Whiche maister D. gatherethe belike becawse Cyprian saithe the election muste be had the people beinge presente In deede it appearethe the maner was then that he that was to be chosen was before them but is it a good reason that Cyprian woulde haue the people presente at the election therfore he vvoulde not haue them to chuse seinge he had sayde im̄ediatly before that they had powre to chuse Yt is well therfore that he added that yt owghte to be doone by their iudgemente so that if the churche iudged him not meet he owghte not to be minister And further addeth vvhich the D. is afraid of and whiche he shamfully deniethe in state wordes by their voices The examples out off the Actes wherwith he bringethe lighte vnto that vvhich he thawghte are touched before and amongest others by the electiō off the Deacōs whiche becawse the D. can not denie but it was by the churche he hathe lefte yt clean forthe and yet most plainly he sheweth this by exāple of an electiō which was lately made in the churche wherunto he vvritethe sayinge vvhiche vvee see to haue bene doone vvithe yovv in the ordeininge off our fellovve in office Sabinus thar the bishopricke shoulde be gyuen him by the
gyuen vnto the people againste their vvill nether by oppression of mighty men vvhiche is detestable let the cytisens or clergie be dravven to gyue their consente And thus muche for answer to yowr Councels To fetche a commaundemente out off the booke off numbers is to fetche yt out off the higheste courte off heauen And I was not constreined vnto it for off more then halfe a score reasons brewghte whether one off them be once moued by yow I leaue it to be iudged This commaundement pinched yow so that albeit yow pretende lawghter yet I dowbte not but yt is Sardons lawghter that is to saie from the teethe owtwarde where yow saie there is no worde which signifieth an election yt is yowr olde boldnes off denying that which is as cleare as the none daies Where also yow saie that it speakinge off layinge on off handes can make nothinge for the election off the church I beseche yow syr how doo yow proue that Timothe hathe the choise of ministers ys it not by thes wordes that he is bidden not to laie on his handes and haue yow not saide that by the layinge on off handes the whole solemnitie off creatinge ministers is vnderstanded this is faste and lose and not onely as Teconius said that that vvee vvill is holie but when wee vvill and as longe as vvee vvill Belike the laying on off handes signifieth nothinge or if it doo and not the consente off the people Why doothe not the Answ tell vs what And where he goeth abowte to finde some differēce in this and that vvhich I saie off the layinge on of handes by the Eldershippe and heroff besides the peintinge off his mergente speaketh ones twise and the thirde tyme accordinge to his olde manner of repeticiōs He purposely as seemeth passeth by my answer to that obiection that not the people but certeine that is to saie the elders in the name off the people did laie on their handes as it is to bee seene in other places vvhere the gouernours in the name off all the people laie on their handes vpon the sacrifice for synne Where yow will mee to speake in good earneste If I had onely to doo vvith such a trifler I woulde either answer nothinge or els as such a one is worthie but because I haue to doo with the church off God for iudgement off the iudiciall and Ceremoniall law and for proofe off yowr vntrew dealing I refer my selffe to that I haue saide before Yff this I haue alledged off layinge on off handes vpon the ordeined bee a Ceremoniall lawe which tooke ende by the comming off our Sauiour Christe then the Apostels vvere iniurious vnto his deathe that translated that Ceremonie from the Iewes vnder the lawe into the churche vnder the Gospell Therfore in this poincte yow haue to doo with the Apostles and not with me For as vnder the lawe the gouernoures and the people consentinge into one action testified the same by layinge on off handes off the gouernours onely so vnder the Gospell the elders and people consentinge in the election off one doo testifie it by layinge on off handes off the Elders onely Where yow vvoulde proue yt abrogated because yt yt is ioined with other thinges which are abrogated I haue shewed howe that is an engyne to wreste owte off the handes off the church all the morall lawes that euer vvere vvritten Where yow saie there coulde be no election off the people in the leuytes for that God had chosen them Yow mighte haue vnderstanded that althowghe the tribe of Leuy onely were vsed to the ministerie yet all that tribe was not applied that vvaies but as many as vvere thowghte enoughe to supplie that office and those also not at all aduenture but by choise accordinge to their habilitie I feare not Maister W. the iudgemente off the greateste enemies I haue and frendes yow haue in this cause but that their owne consciences shall vvitnes vvithe mee off my faithfull alledginge off the scriptures and off yowr either notable ignorance or very euill conscience And in thes iestes off yowres and accusations off my byndinge men vnto the Ceremoniall lawe and bringinge them to Iudaisme and fetchinge off a mandatum owt off the ceremoniall lawe Were yow not a fraide by my sides to thruste thorowghe Cyprian Who fetcheth his profe for the election off the ministerie by the voice off the people owte off the booke off nombers vvhere mention is made also off the preistes garmentes vvhich vvas ceremoniall Or vvere yow not afraide thus to handle Maister Caluin His profe is fetched owt off Leuiticus vvhose speciall argumente is to handell ceremonies and mighte not I fetche a commaundement out off nombers which hath an other scope He onely vppō that it vvas cōmaunded that Moses shoulde bringe the Leuites before the congregation concluded that the peoples consente ovvghte to be had in the ministers choyse and was yt not lawfull for me hauinge the same grounde and further also the comaundement that the people shoulde laie on their handes to conclude as muche He toke his place from thence where nether in the chapiters before nor in that owte of the vvhich he fetcheth this there is any thinge but ceremonial And was it not lawful for me to take this sentence becawse other thinges in this chap. vvere ceremoniall but that I muste needes be thus iested on and my discretion so greatly required in handlinge the scripture Therfore I saie that I citing this place am no more Iewish then the Apostels then Cyprian then Caluin Where I alledged for the establishing off that vvhich he calleth a mandatum owt off the ceremoniall law that the grovvnd of childrens baptisme standeth vpon the ceremony off Circumcision He answering that circumcision was a figure off baptisme but that the Leuiticall priesthood was no figure off the Ministery off the Gospell is deceiued For certein thinges in the Ministrie off the lawe were figures off thinges in the Ministrie off the Gospell as their anointinge signified that none maie bee admitted vnto the ministerie off the Gospell but those which haue giftes meete for that purpose as our Sauiour Christe him selffe owte off Esai expoundeth yt Euen their sacrifices vvhich off all other thinges are furthest from the ministrie of the gospell shadowed out the mortyfyinge off synne by the sworde off the worde off God that the mynisters mighte offer the people vnto God an acceptable sacrifice throwgh Iesus Christe as appeareth by Saincte Paule And the lawes off the leuiticall priesthoode are not onely figures off our ministerie but often times also rules to directe yt by therfore as off that Aaron toke not vppon hym the preisthood before he vvas called off God the vvriter vnto the Hebrewes concluded the callinge off our Sauiour Christe to his preisthood so farre different from the preisthood off Aaron so wee conclude that no man maie put his foote into the ministrie oneles he bee called Thes argumentes
haue answered yt before There is nothinge so easie which is not harde to him that is vnwillinge And therfore the A as Salomons sluggard saith that the Lion whose delighte is in the foreste and in the wildernes is in the highe streat or in the burse that is to saie maketh difficulties wher none is And as this partly cometh of his vnwillingnes so diuers of thes questions if he doo not dissemble come of wante off knowledge not onely of the gouernemente of the churches nowe but off all aunciete tymes For he asketh who shall complaine off the faulte committed in the election to the churches by if the elders to vvhom that care especially apperteineth doo not others owght whō that disorder offendeth Ther needeth no callinge together and therfore no danger off tumulte disorder confusion charges partes takinge runninge vpp and downe losse off time offence quarels yt is enowghe that yt be doone by the eldership off the churches and if were needfull to haue the churches who le consente it might be doone in ordinarie meetinge for the seruice of god without anie of those things which the D. imagineth The churches maie admonishe by their seueral or cōmen letters emōgeste thē But aske me not who shall carie the letter what he shal haue for his paines whether he shal ride or goe a foote whiche yow might as well as those fonde questiōs which you haue moued It is meete the prouinciall Synodes be certeine and standinge as often also as maie be conueniently and it was ordeined as I thinke in one of the Africane Councels that their shoulde be at the leste twoo or three euery yeare So there shall be as spedie prouision off a pastor for the churche in suche cases off difference as now when they be without a pastor six whole monethes For the questions who shall summon the Synodes and in what place they shall be holden they perteine not to this questiō onles the A. will haue no Synodes at all for if he admitte them the sum̄oner and the place which are meete for the assemble generally and for the decidinge off all causes which fall into the consideracion off the Synod are meete also for this cause And where he asketh what if the prince doo not his dutie then yt is as if there vvere no godly magistrate then yt is vvith them as if suche a disorder shoulde happen vnder an vnchristian prince and then the people shall perishe in their sinnes but their bloud shall be required at his hand But still the A. seethe not how hee reasoneth againste hym selfe For if none of the bishoppes off the foresaide parishes none off the elders neither those bishoppes and elders vvhich emongeste the reste and in the name off all are chosen as the flowres oute of the prouince ād sente to the Synode nor the magistrate I saie if none off all thes nor all thes together doo their dutie how shall we thinke that the bishopp vvill doo it And iff hee doo yt in appoinctinge a fitt bishopp for the parishe and the parishe will not admitt him but take one vvhich is vnmeete off their owne choise what remedy hath he when he is forsaken off the magistrate Thus as shortly as I coulde I haue answered this legion off questions and if my answer in speakinge off thinges so commen be tedious take thy selfe good reader vnto the A. which merueileth at them as if they came oute off India Where he saithe I thus appointe the Prince a good office I haue shewed that the scripture appointeth yt and not I and it is the moste honorable office which the Prince can haue to see the churches be kepte in good order nether taketh yt any thinge from the royall estate that he muste obey and serue the lorde And where he saithe by this meanes the Prince muste stande and loke on all this while and in the ende laie to his hande I answer that wheras thes waies off admonition by the churches and Synode are sente before his authoritie yt serueth not onely for the ease off the magistrate whilest that after this sorte oftentimes the difference is ended before it come to him but also agreeth better with the maner off Phisicke which owght to be vsed in such diseases For that vvhich may be conueniently wonne vvith a vvorde shoulde not be gotten by the sworde and that vvhich maye begotten to bee doone with conscience shoulde not be essaied by compulsion Yowr slaunder that wee gyue no more to the cyuill magistrate then the papistes so often repeted is already and god willing shall be more apparante Yt is also a notable and an impudente slaunder that the Magistrate muste onely at the cōmaundemēt of the seniors execute suche lawes as they haue deuised wher as wee holde that if al the bishopes and elders in the realme woulde decree vnlawfull thinges the Prince owght to make them voide ād that he may ād owght to punishe all ecclesiasticall persons which walke disorderly Likewise yt is a fond dreame of surcharginge the Prince with thes matters as thowgh the Princes authoritie necessarily deriued vnto diuers in euery shire for other affaires off gouernment maie not likwise depart also this care vnto them Therfore if yow haue no better exceptiōs then these I am not afraied stil to cōmit my reasons to the iudgement not onely of the godly vvhich rest in authoritie of the word but euen off the wise ād reasonable man which maketh his account of likelihoodes THes highe wordes that he remembreth no learned writer new nor oulde which denieth that there were fewe professors of the gospell in the Apostels times in respecte off those professe nowe what haue they beside a crake And in respecte off the oulde writers yt is absurdly saide For howe coulde they compare the nomber of the professors of our times with those which were in the primitiue churches onles they shoulde prophecie seinge they were dead long before And maketh yt for yow if the newe writers doo not denie this Iff it he no good reason from the scripture negatiuely in those thinges which yt professeth to speake off is it good from other vvriters and frō one parte off them in thinges which they make no profession of ▪ I looked therfore yow shoulde haue browghtesome vvhich by affirming that yow saie mighte if not make it true yet at the leste seeme true I could off yowr chalenge take occasion to bringe all the peregrination off Sainct Paul declared in the Act. Epistles and especially in the 15. Rom. drawen to my hand by which appeareth that he for his parte onely had caused the Gospell to sounde in more then halfe off the worlde I coulde also fetche in Euseb and Ierome which testifie vvhat the other Apostels did for their parte I propounded that which I saide withoute proofe because the thinges are manifestly knowen and suche as can not be denied yow affirme withowte all proofe that in controuersie and wheruppon yowr cause in yowr
iudgement dependeth that no one parte off the worlde no one citie no one the leaste towne receiued the gospell wholy in the Apostles time If I shoulde suffer yow to goe awaie with this greate and vngrounded sainge yet therby can not be concluded that there are more Christians nowe in a parte off Europe then was throwghoute the worlde in the Apostles time But I require proofe of that yow set downe so precisely not onelie because I thinke yow can not warrāt yt by any but also because I haue somewhat to excepte againste yt For yt maie appeare that Samaria did wholy receiue the gospell For beside that yt is recited that vvith one accorde the multitudes gaue heede vnto that Philipp saide S. Luke declaringe in the 10. and 11. verses that all that vvere in Samaria from the litle to the great vvere bewitched vvith the inchaunmentes off Symon addeth in the 12. verse that vvhen they beleued they vvere baptised This hauing relation vnto that vvhich goeth before vvhich is that all were abused by the magycian yt followeth that the whole cytie receyued the gospell Wherunto maie be referred the emulation betwene Ierusalem and Samaria wherby yt came to passe that the gospell thruste oute off Ierusalem was both easelier and more generally receiued in Samaria Lykewise that yt is saide in the 13. verse that euen Simon him selfe off al other moste vntoward beleeued and that in the 14. ver that Samaria had receiued the vvord off God and not many in Samaria as he speaketh off other places where the Gospell was but in parte receiued Yf one excepte that it is not like euery singular person turned at the preaching off Philip I answere that in suche streight signification of all there shall be at this daie founde no kingdome and almoste no citie which hath receiued the gospell But if the whole profession off the gospell be estemed off that which is doone by the bodie and state of the cytie yt seemeth that the wordes off Saincte Luke will beare owte a whole and generall profession at the leaste off the moste parte which yow denie And yf it be trewe that Euseb vvriteth we haue a manifeste testimonie off the whole receiuing off the gospell in the citie off the Edissens which was wonne vnto the Gospell by the preachinge off Thaddeus sente to kinge Agbarus by Thomas the Apostell off vvhom yt is vvritten that he browght all to the knowledge of the gospell and that the vvhole citie of the Edissens hauing at that time giuē her name vnto the profession off Christe so continued vnto the time wherin Eusebius vvrote Where yow vvoulde seeme to saie some great matter when yow add not at Ierusalem yt is asmuche as if yow shoulde say that no towne receiued the gospell because Ierusalem the moste murderinge towne in the whole vvorlde did not vvhose rebellion and for it destruction beinge foretolde off our Sau. Christe muste needes follow For touchinge the Apostles abode there it was not for the hope off any plentifull haruest to be reaped in that cytie But partly for that the Iewes vnto whom they were sente to preache first had their concourse thether from all corners of the worlde partly to fullfill the prophecye off the sounde of the gospell from Syon into all partes of the worlde and thirdly to prepare a readier passage for his heauy iudgementes to come vppon that cytie That also also which yow add that the tenthe parte off the inhabitans off Ephesus Antioche and Rome was not Christian in the Apostles times is onely saide and it is muche for yow to speake so largely off the tenthe not hable to proue the fyueth or thirde And althowghe yt can not be certainly knowen what nomber of beleuers were at thes places yet it maie be by all likelyhood shewed that it is vntrwe especially off the twoo first Of Antioche wee reade that when they which were scattered by persecution moued in Ierusalem preached there the hande off the Lorde vvas vvith them and a great nomber beleuinge turned vnto the lorde And in the 24. verse yt is saide that at the preachinge off Barnabas there vvas a great multitude added vnto the lorde And yet in the 26. verse yt is declared that afterward Barnabas procuringe Saint Paules comminge thether they bothe together abyding there by the space off one whole yeare tavvght a great multitude Here is mention off three great multitudes which at seuerall times were turned vnto the lorde in that citie and how dare yow yet saie that al thes were not the tenth parte Of Ephesus also it is written that the fruicte off S. Paules preaching there by the space of twoo yeares was so greate that the bookes off those which had exercised curiouse and vnlawfull artes vvere bourned in the sight off all men which coulde not be doone without great daunger vnto the church onles the greatest parte off the citie had beleued Which maye yet more appeare for so much as Demetrius the siluersmythe affirmeth that the arte of makinge shrines and Dianas temple vvas in danger to be set at nothinge And as the A. is to narrow in esteming the fruicte of the Apostles preaching accompanied with suche powre off miracles and diuersities off giftes off the holy goste wherby were gathered greater nombers off professors off the gospell then nowe by the symple preaching off the worde so in his accompte off the nomber off professors off the Gospell now he is marueilously lauishe For where are those whole contreis nations and kingdomes which professe Christe If he take in the Papistes to make vp his reckuinge they will not be receiued For wee speake off the churche off Christe and off those which imbrace the gospell and so himselfe had put yt in his answer to the admonition The papistes therfore which pretendinge the name of Christe persequute the gospell are the Synagogue off Sathan and must in this accounte off Christians be shut owte howsoeuer by changing off the professors off the gospell into those which professe Christe yow woulde seeme to winde them in The mixture which was in the Apostels times off professors off the gospell with those which were professed enemies vnto yt beinge yet in those kingdomes yow speake of yow are so farre from shewinge that the multitude off professors off the gospell in Europe is greater now then yt was in then in all Asia Africke and Europe that yow doo not so muche as shewe that the nomber off Christians in Europe yt selfe is nowe greater then in time off the Apostles When it is saide that the whole church assembled for election all men knowe that therby is mente that particular companie off professors off the gospell which dwellinge nighe together make one assemblie and therfore that yow write off the impossibilitie off gathering all the church scattered throwgh out the whole worlde into one place is but a meere daliance Yow saie they mighte well meete withowte confusion in the Apostles times
booke he affirmethe precisely that the discipline is required to the substance off the church onely he denieth that vvhich the Anabaptist helde that there was no churche where there was no excommunication Likewise pa. 90. where he would make vs beleue that excommunication 19. Math is not by Maister Caluin iudgement vnderstanded off publicke offences Mai. Caluins declareth onely that those priuate admonitions doo not belonge vnto publicke offences but that those publike offenders ought to be excommunicated if they reste not in the churches Iudgement and consequently first complainned of to the churche Which are two off the Ecclesiasticall censures mentioned in that place off S. Mathew he dothe more then once or twise affirme Now leuing the D. in his threchery let vs returne if al were trwe yow alledge here as they are very vntrwe yet they helpe not For yow vvill not denie but dronkardes vvhoremongers papistes c. owghte ether to be driuen to repentance or owte off the churche which whether soeuer come to passe taketh awaie the inconuenience yow alledge againste the election off the church So that onles yow meane to nourishe them in the churche as bandogges to kepe owte this election this barre againste it is easely remoued It is appointed vnto the magistrate by the word off God that he shoulde not onelie prouide that his subiectes liue paceably one with another but also and that especially to see that they hauing the trwe knowledge of God maie serue him as he hathe prescribed This waie off gathering them to the nexte parishes seemed vnto me fitteste to be vsed in that case if yow can shewe better mine shall giue place Onely therfore I made mention of it to shewe that the impossibilitie vvhich yow so often caste in the teeth of the reformacion can haue no place if they continewe vncorrigible I haue before shewed that yt is the cōmaundemēt of God vnto the magistrate to vse cutting and burning and nether to suffer God to be dishonored in them nor the reste off his subiectes infected If they can be discerned for dogges or swine vvhich are not onely filthie in vvhich regarde I called dronkardes c. Swine but also treade the worde vnder their feete then I graunte he vvhich hath that iudgement off them assured by the testimonie of the spirite of God owghte not to teache them But this cōmeth owte of time For I made no mention off dogges and the name off swine I gaue not to the papistes but to filthie liuers and yt ouerturneth yowr pourpose for if they maie not heare the worde muche lesse can they be off the church The preuenting off an obiection is no digression vvhether yt bee friuolous the iudgement shall bee with the reader I tooke the likeliest signification off yowr worde established which is surely grounded withowte remoue and which hathe all the partes off a church nowe I see that by established yow meane allowed by the magistrate Althowghe I haue shewed before by storie that there were churches then which had maintenance of the magistrate yet as in a matter that nether hurteth me not helpeth yow I wil not striue speake of the church visible standing off good and euill of the owtwarde gouernment of the church vvhich standeth in administring off the word and Sacramentes and exercise of all partes off church discipline and that I haue shewed to haue all her partes althowghe not all her ornamentes Which I did not withowt reason annexed againste which cometh nothinge but a bare affertion and a charge off ignorance off that distinction which I my selfe did first propounde towchinge this that the cyuill magistrate is not the heade off the churche yt falleth into the questiō of the Archbishop where it shall be god willing handled That he saithe that the state off the churche was in the Apostles tyme popular by his owne iudgement which gyueth the name vnto the forme of gouernment of that parte which moste rulethe is vntrwe for the State off the beste did beare the greateste rule considering that there were matters belonginge vnto the church doone by the eldershipp wherat the people were not nor coulde not by any conuenience be present yet there was nothing in whiche the peoples Iudgement was required wherin the Eldershipp was not bothe present and president And this saying off the D. that the people in the Apostels times had to doo almoste in euery thinge is directly contrarie to that he hath before discoursed For to the Admo and me opposing the places off the Actes where thinges were doone ether by voice or consent off the church his answer hath bene that the churche had nothing to doo there but onely in the election off the Deacons and that popularitie he affirmeth to haue bene not in respecte that the church was vnder persequution as here in this place but for a speciall cause off contention then in the church Now I vvould gladly knowe of Maister D. What are those places off scripture wherby he will proue that the moste thinges in gouernment were doone by consent off the people if those places wee haūe alledged doo not proue yt That which yow ad off the conuenience that nothing shoulde be doone in the church withowte the consent and knowledge of the magistrate yowr addition taketh nothing from the consent of the churche For the magistrates consente and the churches are not at warre but one may hathe and dothe stande well vvith the other Because the recytall of a 100. differences is vnprofitable I leaue yt in the readers iudgement howe trwly and withowte bragge or figure I haue spoken But if for a 100. there were 1000. yet yowr cause shoulde be neuer the better onles yow can shewe that those differences pull with them a necessitie off change off the forme off election vvhich yow nether doo nor can That one churche shoulde admonishe another and that there are many Hypocrites vnder persequution is before shewed Off wicked ministers which had their followers and louers in the churches of God vvhich notwithstanding kepinge the profession off the gospell were in daunger off the lawes of the contreis where they dwelte is spoken off almoste throwghe all the epistles off Saint Paule yea yt maie appeare throwgh owte the whole course of the ecclesiasticall stories that many churches of Heretikes partly Arians partly Nestorians and especially of the Nouatians were persequuted and banished of heathen Emperours together vvith the catholike church of Christe And it appeareth plainly by that which hath bene of both partes alledged owte of Cypr. that certein churches abowte him did chuse vnmeet ministers Therfore Maister D. doth wounderfully forget him selfe when he saithe that yt is not lyke that the churche in persequution will chuse an vnmeete or wicked mynister or that they which suffer persequution for the gospell doo yt allwaies off conscience or off good conscience wheroff the question is And if he vvill admitte none off thes proses yet if he stand vnto his exposition off
diocese will not holde owt the whether For although it might be therby gathered that there vvere seuerall Ceremonies in the elections off the dioceses yet it is plaine by his wordes that the elections vvere throvvgh ovvt made by the church vvhich is that vve desire Because yow busie yowr selfe so much to proue that this was not decreed by autoritie of the vvord of God althowgh yt be not that vvhich I tooke in hand to proue yet the wordes off that decree proue yt fully And albeyt he saied not according to the rules of the Apostles yet he saith that in effect For in saing that the church should vse that election in the name and authoritie off god what is yt els but that god hath so ordeined And in that he calleth yt the honor of the church which he giueth not him selfe but assenteth vnto he declareth yt incident to the church And what a reason is this Thēperour for bad that any man shoulde spoile the churches of their elections therfore it was in the Emperours powre to take awaie the election from the churches Which is in this diuision for feare of forgetting fowre times repeted ād vnworthy once to be cōfuted as I haue before declared And as that which the A. alledgeth off the rest of the decree maketh nothing to proue that the electiō off the church is in the Emperours powre so that which im̄ediatly foloweth vvhich he hydeth in c. doth manifestly proue that he helde yt for grounded of the vvord off God that the churches should haue the election off their mynisters For he addeth Because vve haue bene tavvght by the holie fathers that this thing that is to saie the taking awaie off the election from the church as the D. himselfe expoundeth yt is most greuous synne If therfore it be greuous synne to spoile the church of this honor and synne is defined the breach of the law off god yt followeth that the Emperour toke yt for a lawe of God that the church should chuse her minister And if I had bene bente vppon that poincte I could haue cited diuers testimonies which Illyricus vseth wherby this off the vnchangeable necessitie off the election by the church is confirmed As that Leo the firste affirmeth that no reason suffereth that he should be bishop vvhich is not chosen by the people alledged and pressed against the Papistes off Maister Caluin to the same pourpose Which place how violently and vnfaithfully yt is wrested off the D. in the end of this treatise shall be considered Also that he alledgeth off Leo the fourth and Celestine which confirmed the same ordinance vvith this testimonie it is not conuenient and yt is againste reason yt should be othervvise Likewise owt off the epistles off the Archbishop off Reines in Fraunce vvho diuers times vseth this saying he ovvght to be chosen of all vvhom all must gyue obedience vnto Last off all a whole treatise owt of the second booke of Cusanus vvhich proueth of diuers places out off the scripture Cyprian and canon Lawe that yt is no constitution off men but the lawe off God that the minister should be chosen off the church and that vvhosoeuer doth not enter into the church by that means entreth not in by the doore but is a these and a murtherer Thes I would haue browght at large if I had not contented my selfe with proofes owt of the scripture for the necessitie off yt which I here haue shortly set downe because I see the D. more afraied off the iudgemēt off the auncient church then of the scripture so that althowgh yt be a slender buckler to shild him selfe that the constitutions in that behalfe make no mention off any grownd owt off the word of god wheras he should rather haue shewed that they protested in their lawes off the indifferencie againste the necessitie off it yet euen that buckler also is by diuers Testymonies taken from him Yt is a poore falsifying off Platina vvhich is nothing but change of one worde for another without any gaine at al. For the Emperours cōmendacion serueth me as well to proue that the election of the church was alowed of and confirmed of the ciuill magistrate as if he had commaunded yt The second place off Platina proueth nothing les then that it was in the Emperours powre to change the election seinge that he nether made nor altered any forme off Election but onely off two Elections by the people mainteined that vvhich vvas lawfull Seinge also Platina supposeth no right off makinge the election in the Emperour but by the resignation off the Bishopp if that place proue any thing or thother after alledged owte off Bale and Barnes they proue that yt was in the Bishoppes hande to order yt at his pleasure Which howe vntrwe yt ys maie be considered off that vvhich hath bene before spoken againste the sole election off the Bishopp and off that vvhich is here confessed that the Bishopp of Rome began to vsurpe that which belonged not vnto hym For iff he encroched vppon the Emperours right no meruaile althowgh he brake in vppon the possession off the church Where he saith yt is to be noted that the libertie for the people to chuse was graunted by Charles the greate note also tha◠that note is worth nothing For where he would haue yt seeme that he was the firste that gaue that libertie he is confuted manifestly by the wordes off Charles a litle before alledged vvho speaketh of that election as of a thing accustomed of ould and doth not make any newe lawe therof but gyueth his assent vnto those which vvere made The vvordes yow ascribe to me that the electiō perteineth not to the Emperour I haue not I kepte the very wordes of Platina and nether added nor tooke awaie from them Where yow vvould seme to confirme owt of Platina in the life of Iohn the 13. by the worde creating that the Emperour chose Leo yt is but an abusing of the reader For Platina in the next chapter sauing one vvhere he speaketh of Leos election declareth that that creation vvas nothing els but a confirmacion of the election made by the people and clergie Therfore I saide the Emperours permitted the elections vnto the churches because by powre and violence they might haue taken them from them vvherfore yt followethe not that he mighte withowt breache off Gods lawe take them from the churche When yt is saide in the stories that the Emperous permitted vnto the churches the exercise off their religion maie yt therby be concluded that it was at their pleasure to haue without offence of God restrained them of that libertie verely I am ashamed to confute vvhich the D. is not ashamed to obiecte Yet the testimonies alledged make no mention of this word permission wherby this aduantage yf yt vvere anie should betaken Yow might easelie haue forgiuen me this fault where the iniurie which I doo is a gainst my selfe For where I might
trifling questions here albeit moste vnworthy yet are answered almoste all before And if there were a legion moe they are not onely confuted in that this manner off election by the churche confirmed by the magistrate hath bene vsed more then â—00 yeares together but also by the D. owne wordes wherby he leaueth yt in the princes pleasure so to order yt still For if there were such incoÌ„ueniences and absurdities as he imagineth how hath the practise continued so longe bene thowght good by so many good Emperours and so many learned men in all those ages Or if all they were a sleap or of so shorte sighte that they could not see thes inconueniences which the D. hath espied how commeth yt to passe that he leaueth yt in the magistrates pleasure to establishe this order encombred with suche inconueniences and absurdities For the chalenges wherby he would giue to vnderstand that I haue not faithfully alledged Musculus the firste is that I affirme that he vvente aboute to defend the election vsed vvhere he vvas by this that it approched to the election of the primatiue church which he saith is vntrue But the reason wherwith I confirme yt that Muscu saithe yt vavs made not by one minister but by al by the voices of the Senate vvhere some nomber off the people vvere He toucheth not The second that I call the choise off the minister by the churche the Apostolicall forme yet they are not my wordes but Musculus his authors vvhich calleth yt the oulde the fytteste the deuine the Apostolicall and lavvfull election Where he saith that Musculus dooth not call the other elections forced I woulde gladly knowe what difference there is betwene forced and thruste vpon For Musculus in the same tytle maketh all one a mynister thruste vppon the church and a minister which is not chosen off the church in thes wordes The forme off election vsed in the Apostles times is conformable to the libertie and priuiledge off the church vvherof Cyprian made mention and that forme off choise vvherby men began to be thrust vppon the people off Christe being not chosen off yt dooth agree to a church vvhich is not free but subiecte to bondage Hetherto yt hathe appeared that although Musc Iudgement be not wholy for vs yet the reasons vvhich he alleadgeth for this cause are suche as can not be shaken Now I will further shew that as there is some disagreement betwene ours and his Iudgement so there is further distance betwene hym and the D. First therfore he saithe that as the election by the church endured vntill the time off Christian magistrates so the election made by the church and confirmed by the christian magistrate endured vntill that time that the bishoppe off Rome hauinge wronge owte both from the Emperour and the people their right in the election tooke it all to him selfe The D. denieth this stoutly Secondarily Musculus maketh the disorders off electioÌ„s by chusinge vnmeete persons or by corruption throwghe giftes or parciall fauour to beginne then especially when the election taken from the people cam into the bishoppe of Rome and his suffragans handes The D. cleane contrary that thes disorders were especially in the elections by the people and beste auoided when the election is called to the will and becke off one bishoppe Thirdly Musc maketh yt an vnlawfull forme off election when yt is made of the prince but maister D. saith that yt is in the princes powre to make election off ministers him selfe if he will or committe yt to others iff he liste Fourthly Musc helpinge him selfe off the authoritie off Ierome saith that there was no election in poperie becawse they were made without the knowledge off the people and condemneth also the election of the bishopes made by the Canons for the same cause But M. D. saith yt is a moste conuenient and sufficient election which notwithstandinge in that poincte is all one with the election in poperie Last off all wherin lieth a great weight of this controuersie he dooth not saie simply that this forme off choise by the church is vnmeete and inconuenient for this age off he churche but that it coulde not be by and by and out of hand restored and after a litle that it could not be in al churches by and by restored Wherby he gyuethe to vnderstand that in some places yt might be forthwith restored and in other all men owght endeuour to bringe yt in againe withall coÌ„uenient speed So appeareth that although Musculus be pretended yet Pigghius and Hosius be his storers Here cometh to shewe the manner off the election off the Tigurine churche wheron the D. heareth hym selfe so much vvhich as Bullinger whom he cyteth for his author reporteth is this After he had shewed that in all lawfull ministeries off the worde there is required that with innocencie of life he shoulde be learned then chosen accordinge to the worde off God thirdly after he is chosen and presented to the church haue imposition of handes he addeth Heruppon the Tigurine church hauinge taken her leaue off the inordinate ordination off the popishe bishoppe chuseth off the learned and off the ministers off the Senators and off the councell off the 220. that is to saie off the common people vvhich out off the learnedest and honestest deacons should present certeine that are to bee made Bishoppes vnto the Senate and people Off vvhich vvhen the Senate and people haue chosen one they sende him vnto the church ouer vvhich he is set and vvith him a counseiller vvhich doth commend him vnto his church Then the cheifest off the bishoppes off that citie or other place vvhere this nevve bishop muste be maketh a Sermon and in publike praier made off the church in this behalfe layinge on his handes commendeth the church vnto him Wherin howe many thinges are fauouringe our cause and openly fighting against the D. vppon that I haue before noted of the election of the churches of Berne I leaue to be considered ALthowghe the D. as his vse is speaketh off one thinge so often and that in the same diuision and with spaces put betwene so that yt is harde to giue answer with any conuenient vnderstandinge off the reader yet I will as well as I can referre his scattered sayinges to certeine heades Wheroff the firste is that he did not meane to proue by thes places off Timothe and Titus that the election belonged vnto one man Wheruppon he chargeth me with willfull deprauinge off his answer Yt muste be therfore considered if we maie holde this wett eele by the mouthe The Adm. saithe in the primitiue church no minister vvas placed in the congregation but by consente off the people but novve that authoritie is giuen to the bishoppes handes alone the D. answereth by the place off Timothe and Titus Now this beinge a commaundement and by his iudgement both directed onely to Tim. and Tit. and to them as bishoppes yt followeth
that he hath taught that Sainct Paule commaundeth that they and in them all bishoppes shoulde onely chuse Wherby are condemned all election by the church as those which haue intruded vppon the bishoppes possession Where he saith that the Adm. dothe coulorably affirme by thes wordes thautoritie is gyuen to the bishopp alone c. that the right off orderinge ministers doth at no hand apperteine vnto the bishopp I would knowe what word there is heere where this coulor is to bee seene aÌ„d what light he is able to giue vs to make yt appeare The other sentence wherwith he woulde proue yt followeth after nether was he come vnto yt Yf he did therfore confute that it is as straunge as iff a man shoulde shutte off and spende his arrowes or euer he come within the reach off his enemie And I thinke there is no example off suche confutation onles he had coupled that place with this and comparinge them together sett vpon them both at ones beside that it is Absurde that where the Adm. heere spake off the election he answereth off admission Here cometh to be considered the A. dealinge in the end off the booke where charged with vnfaithfullnes for that as in this place he would haue in synuated that the Adm. would haue the people chuse onely to proue hym selfe giltles he alledgeth a place of the Adm. wherin yt is said Then the election vvas made by commen consent off the vvhole church To this answer I repâ—lied that it was his ouersight that he tooke the people which is but a parte of the church to be al one with the church which is the whole coÌ„teininge as well gouernours of the church as the people in which replie the D. crieth owte off manifest falsification Why so forsooth because I lefte owte this worde whole that is to saie because I spared hym and kepte backe a peece of his folie and that with disaduantage off that which I pretended to proue For the word church simply set downe doth comprehended as well the gouernours as the people howe much more doth it comprehend them when this worde whole is added And if it were falsely concluded off him against the Adm. that they would haue the ministers to be called allowed and placed off the people because they saide that the election was made by commen consent off the church how much more is yt falsely concluded of thes wordes off the Adm. the election vvas made by consente off the vvhole church Thus appeareth that the D. together with his diuinitie seemeth to haue loste his commen sense yt is time therfore to carie him owte off the schole to some other place iff peraduenture by some sharper discipline he might gather vpp him selfe againe In the same place also vpoÌ„ that I shewed that in proper speach the church and people differed hauing there declared that difference to be in that the church is the whole and the people a parte theroff â–ª this complainer off falsificatioÌ„ saithe that I seeme to seperate the people from the election of the ministers for that I will not haue the worde church in the Adm. comprehend the people which is manifestly againste that I set downe For I precisely reprehended hym for that vppon the worde church vsed off the Admon he woulde haue mainteined his false insinuation againste them that the election should perteine to the people onely consideringe that the word church cited off him was the vvhole and the people one parte and necessarily comprehended vnder it This is not onely falsifyinge but flat facynge Nowe to retourne backe I aske what he needed twife in this diuision in so many and greuous wordes complaine off corrupte dealinge seinge him selfe flatly affirmeth asmuch as I saie of him and otherwise caÌ„ not mainteine his cause The truth is that he absteined then from the wordes electinge and onely bycause he sawe he had nothinge to mainteine them which nowe by my replie he was driuen to put downe or els to forsake his cawse Wherin as he dissenteth from the trwth so he is driuen to haue a newe combat with him selfe in that he heere maketh yt indifferent and at the discretion of the church in tyme of persequution to make elections ether by one or by the multitude which is contrary to that he hath before in thes wordes Lastly in time of persequution when they haue no magistrate they be all equall nether is one bound to obey another by any ciuill lawe none hath cheiff and especiall care ouer the reste as magistrate to compell wherfore yt can not be otherwise then but that such offices should be chosen by common consente Where he alledgeth Zuing. and Bull. owt of place and contrary to the title of his chap. to proue the callinge of certeine by one Apostle because they be Euangelistes vvhich wee haue no vse off and for that I haue shewed that they both are clearly of this Iudgement that the minister owght to be chosen with consent off the church I will not much busie my selfe with this matter But althowgh the Apostles did send thes Euangelistes off their Embassages to knowe howe the churches did and such lyke thinges as required no tariance nor execution off any set ministrie in the churches wherunto they where sent yet that they euer set them to rule any congregation by their priuate autoritie is not to be estemed wheroff this is an apparant reason that Timothe was not set ouer the church off Ephesus by Saint Paule onely seinge that Paule confesseth that he receiued imposition off handes by the eldership Thother also here mentioned beinge Euangelistes it is like the order vsed in one was in thother Nether doo the wordes I lefte the at Creta proue it for he doth not saie that he ordeined him and if he had yet it muste be vnderstanded that he did ordeine him as he had doone in other churches with consente off the church And that this is not my iudgement yt maie appeare by that I haue alledged owt off Caluine and Musculus in the former booke aÌ„d Bez. in this nether could Bull. be thought to haue here such meaniÌ„g as the D. giueth him that the Apostles alone should sett ouer the churches ministers as appeareth by that I haue alledged So that onles he will make Bullinger contrary vnto him selffe thes wordes that Paule and Peter called certeine can not be vnderstanded off placinge them ouer any congregation no further then being cheife in that action they directed the iudgemeÌ„t of the churches there remaineth zuinglius which I meruaile the D. will charge me with seinge he himselffe will not stande to him in the place which he hath alledged For that which he hath lefte owt off Mathias chosen by the vvhole church is directly againste that which he hath in diuers places before affirmed After many vaine wordes againste the replie vnto the places off Timothe as that it is against thauthoritie off learned writers against the whole course off
therfore euery thinge that liueth is a man And I woulde gladly vnderstand by what maisters off our tounge yow can proue that thes two wordes to appoincte and to ordeine differ Iff they be all one why seeke yow aduantage in the one which you can not finde in the other But if it be absurde to saie that ordeininge is nothinge els but to call to chuse and to appoincte yt is as absurde that to appoincte is nothinge els but to call to chuse and to ordeine I am well contente yow expounde the place vnto Timothe off puttinge on of handes by that vnto Titus of appoincting towne by towne For I dowbte not but that which the eldershippe doth or one in the name off the eldershippe after the electioÌ„ is therfore called appointinge or ordeininge to the ministerie because yt is a solemne inuestinge and puttinge him in possession off that wherunto he was before chosen Althowghe Cal. be directly against him in this question whose iudgement is that yt doth nether belonge vnto the bishoppe to choose him selfe alone nor yet to ordeine by him selfe alone yet to helpe to ouerthrowe the right signification of Presbytery he is contente to folowe him at the leste dowting leauinge so many bothe olde and newe which all take that worde for a companie off those which gouerne the churche And it is certeine that those formes off nownes are vsed to signifie ether a societie or els the place where a societie meeteth And Caluine him selffe interpretinge that place where he had better occasion to coÌ„sider of it semeth to haue retracted his iudgement for thus he writeth They vvhich doo here take this vvord presbytery for a novvne collectiue and for the colledge of elders in my iudgement thincke vvell Althovvghe all thinges consydered I graunte an other sense vvill not euill agree that is that yt be the name off the offyce Yff those wordes as I appoincted the be referred as yowr learned interpreters will haue them by laying on off handes and praier they helpe yow nothinge And therfore I will not striue abowte yt Where yow saie Musculus meaninge is not much otherwise meaninge therby to conclude that he mente not to barr Timothe and Titus off their sole election let his wordes then be iudge Hauinge shewed howe Mathias and the Deacons were chosen by the church he saith there is no doubte but the Apostles kepte that maner of ordeininge and alledginge the example of the election off the 14. off the Actes headdeth therfore after fastinge and prayinge vvhich vvas vvonte to be doone in the congregation off the faithfull they ordeined elders vvhich vvere firste chosen of the faithfull And this forme off electinge and ordeininge elders and bishoppes the Apostle commended vnto his fellovve vvorkman Titus and Timothe sayinge for this cause I lefte the at Crete c. for vvho vvoulde beleue that he ordeined that Titus shoulde doo othervvise then both he and the rest off the Apostles vvere accoustomed to doo And althowghe thes wordes declare so plainly that Titus and Timothe chose not them selues alone but by consente off the churches as more fuller coulde hardly be deuised yet to put all owt off dowbte that he mente that Timothe and Titus conformed themselues to the examples off the Apostles in the churches election ioined together with theirs he doth immediatly add this conclusion Therfore bothe by the example and ordinance off the Apostle in the primitiue churche elders pastors bishoppes and Deacons vvere in the Ecclesiasticall meetinges chosen off the people by lifting vpp off handes Where the reader maie consyder what trwth he hath to loke for at the D. handes which denieth thinges that haue so manifeste and so easie confutation And where he saith that herin althowghe he hath lefte Caluin yet he hath folowed the iudgement of other learned men he maie see that he hath not lefte Caluin onely but Muscul Bulling and Zuing. As for his learned men I thinke verely that Pighius Hosius and others off that stampe excepted he is not hable to alledge one to confirme that Titus and Timothe had onely the election off the ministers For those alledged to proue that Timothe and Titus did ordeine are nothinge to the purpose considering no man denieth that but that they ordeined alone was to be shewed And â—â— he had shewed that they alone ordeined which he shall neuer doo yet is not the election off the people therby shut owte forsomuche as election and ordination are seuerall thinges What ether godlines or honesty is in him which dare so bare faced denie thinges so openly vntrwe I will leaue to bee iudged of that which is saide towching that the election doth not belonge vnto the bishoppe alone but vnto the church Here I will shewe that not so much as the ordination can by the testimonie of thauncient fathers or councelles agree vnto one bishop onely which is another poinct that he would haue the reader beleue and therfore owght ether to haue shewed yt or els to haue holdeÌ„ his peace seing none euer denied that the bishop hath to doo in the ordinacion Firste yt appeareth in Cyprian that both in the prouince where he was and in all other prouincs almost the nexte bishopps off that place where ther was a minister to be chosen came to ordeine hym whom the people chose The great councell off Nice decreed that he shoulde be ordeined off all the bishopps off the prouince at the leaste of three Moreouer August sheweth that when the Donatistes accused Cycilian for that beinge cheife bishop off the Prouince off Carthage he waited not to bee ordeined off the cheife bishoppe off Numidia the Catholikes did answer that it was the coustome of the Catholike church that the bishop of Num. should not ordeine the bishop of Carthage but the bishops which were next And in an other place of the same booke he sheweth that yt was the coustome that 12. bishoppes shoulde be at the ordination off him which was chosen bishop and pastor off any church Which appeareth in the same booke to haue bene obserued in the ordination off Cycilian And that yt may appeare that this was by continuall consente and Harmonie off Councells decreed againste the ordination by one bishoppe that one place off Theodoret iff there were no more mighte suffice where he saith that Euagrius came to the office off a bishoppe vnlawfully because onely Paulinus ordeined him contrary to the tenure off manie canons which prouided that they shoulde not be ordeined but by all the bishoppes off the prouince or at the leaste by three Thus yt appeareth that by all antiquitie not onely the election made by one bishope alone but the ordinacion also is flatly condemned as vnlawfull and contrarie to the coustome of the Catholike churche and olde Councelles â–ª wherby is manifest how vaine yt is which is cited owt off Caluin and others to proue that because the Metrapolitane ordeined therfore he ordeined alone Yow answer not
much more owghte the bishops election which hath so manie bankes both off ignorance and euill conscience to put him from the waie of a good election be susteined by the iudgement off others And yt ys vntrwe that it is plaine that the church was heere shut forth For althowgh yt was nether in the ministers powre nor the peoples to chaunge this election yet the faste there mentioned beinge generall and the accoumpte off their embassage and successe therof beinge afterwarde made vnto the churche yt is not vnlike but in the approbation which that election coulde admit the church also had her parte That which is heere added owte off Beza vvhich the D. woulde haue so diligently noted is but to vvaste paper For vvee holde that it is moste conueniente the people shoulde haue the ministers and elders goe before and directe them in their elections But yt is moste directly againste the D. For therby appeareth that Beza is off that minde that althowgh the people be ignorant and vntractable yet they owght not to be cut of from ecclesiasticall electiōs but directed and called to some moderation Off that which remaineth in this diuision the canons called the Apostels that off Antioche Eusebius and others which speake off ordeining make nothing to this question which is off election consideringe that yt hath bene shewed not onely that ordinacion differeth from election but also that the councells from time to time haue confirmed the election by the churches So that iff there haue bene any elections made by the Bishopes alone they haue bene directly contrary to the tenure of the councelles In the councell off Nice althowgh his boldnes be greater then in the other canons hauing chaunged the wordes off the councell and in steede off ordinacion put election yet hath he no more warrant off the wordes off that canon then off the others And albeit the generall answer is more then sufficient to resiste suche naked assertions yet euen in this councell it is manifestly to beshewed that that canō is to be vnderstāded of ordinacion as it is distinguished from election For in the letters which the Synode off Constantinople wrote vnto the councell holden at Rome yt is thus written Touching the care off the gouernement off euery church yovv knovv that the oulde decree and appointement of the fathers off the Nicene councell hath preuailed from time to time that the inhabitants in euery prouince taking to them if they vvill and if yt be profitable those vvhich are next adioining should make the elections According to the tenure vvherof vnderstand yovv that the residue of the churches vvith vs are gouerned VVherupon vve haue in our generall councell set our bishopp off Constantinople Nectarius in the sight off the Emperour Theodosius and clergy off that citie the vvhole citie giuing theyr voices therunto And so goeth forward with the election off the bishop off Antioche and confirmacion off the bishop off Ierusalem Where yt appeareth manifestly not onely that the ordinacion gyuen by that canon to the bishop did not shut owt the election off the people but that yt implied necessarily an election by the people and clergy ioined with yt For the Synode saith that those elections vvhich vvere made by consent of the church vvere made according to the decree off the Nicene councell And if it should be as the D. pretendeth that the councell off Nice ment to gyue the whole interest off election vnto the bishops and to take yt from the church then coulde not that councell haue saied that they made the Nicene councell the squire off their elections when they admitted the suffrages off the people And that there be no doubt heroff I will set downe the wordes off the councell off Nice which are these Let the people chuse and the bishop approue and seale vp the election vvith them For Gratians distincions vvith his glosse first them selues gyue me defense enough against all the force wherwith they assaile this cause as when he saith that the other priestes vnder degree off a bishop may be ordeined off their ovvne bishop so that both the citisens and the rest off the priestes gyue their assent And the glosse vpon the second canon off that distinction saying the Bishop alone may gyue the degree vnto priestes addeth alone that is to say vvithovvt other bishopps Then I coulde oppose the authoritie off Illyricus which sheweth plainly that the wordes cited owt off the 63. distinction by the D. be a mere lie off Gratian. Howbeit I will not gyue ether Gratian or his glosse that honour as once to vouchesafe hym off any answer in the church of god And that thow maiest know good reader what maner of man he was of vvhom the D. plunged seeketh helpe vvith commendation also of his interpretation euen where it is condemned off protestantes writers off our time as heere thow seest and further shall appeare I will in a word aduertise the. That whether he vvere the brother off Lombard tharchepiller of Antichristes seat borne with a third brother of a strompet as they write vvhich couer the shame of his birth or Lombardes bastard conceined by a Nun which by reuelation accompanied her selfe vvith Lombard vvhether so euer I saie he vvere off thes this is certeine that in gatheringe the canons off the councelles he endeuored by mighte and maine to make them agree vvith the Patrone off the adulterous church off Rome Therfore in goynge aboute to reconcile thee gouernemente off the elder churches off Christe vvith that vpstarte Synagogue off Antechriste as yt vvere to make accorde between the owle and the rauen there is no kinde of false dealinge nether in addinge changinge dimynishinge false interpretinge nor other corruptions and that contrarie to the cleare lighte off wordes controrolmente off recordes extante to confute him wherin he hath not caried awaie the bel of vnshamfastnes from all that euer wrote before him or in his time Off thes corruptions there are almoste as many both vvitnesses and gath erers off our owne cotrey men and of others as haue at any time bene exercised in this fielde off confutation off the popishe religion As for his glossers as the Popes hyred seruantes such as flattered for a cruste off breade sayinge yea to his yea and nay to his nay they shall goe to gether with their maister And let euen this place of the D. befor a sey off the glosses impudencie in expounding Leos wordes For where Leo speakinge of electiō setteth forth the intereste of the churches with all thes wordes that the minister ovvghte to be chosen by the consente off the people by the voices off the people by their good vvilles and that none be ordeined vvhich they desyre not vvhich they vvishe not for vvhich they require not all thes wordes this good glosse bringeth me vnto this that the people shoulde onely gyue testimonie off his good behauiour vvhich is before confuted And if he saie here
that I deale not equally which barre him off that authoritie that I haue sometimes vsed my selfe ▪ he owghte to remember that a foreine testimonie and witnes off an enemie is glorious and that I hauinge vvarre in thes questions off the discipline not onely vvith him but with the Papistes mighte with commendation strike the◠thinges with their owne sworde which he hauinge herin the same cause vvhich they haue can not doo That which is gathered off Ambroses election owte off Theodorete is moste vntrwe ▪ for yt is manifeste that Ambrose was chosen by the whole church off Mylane and neuer a vvord to proue that the Byshops had the righte off election but the contrarye by the wordes and circumstances off the storie And wheras vppon the bishoppes offer vnto the Emperour to appointe one the D. woulde make the intereste of election a runninge and walkinge righte firste as the emperours gaue vnto the bishoppes thinges vvhich vvere vnmeete for them so yt was no meruaile if the bishops sometimes offred vnto the Emperours that vvhich perteined not vnto them Which may well appeare there by the answere off the good Emperour which refused yt as a thinge vvhich he had not to doo with and vnmeete for him Secondly yt is very like that for the diuersities of iudgementes vvhich vvere emongeste the people the bishoppes perceiuinge that they shoulde run into displeasure off one off the parties woulde haue bene glad to shifte off that euill will and lay yt on the Emperour which was better hable to beare it last of all they offred the Emperour that which he willed them to doo which vvhen yt was to ordeine onely as the issue declared and not to chuse the churches election can be by no meanes preiudiced in that offer off the bishops As for Chrysostomes 3. booke de Sacerdotio besyde that I doubte not but if yt had any thinge of Valewe for yow yow would alledge yt yt is the same authoritie which Hosius alledgeth and alledgeth in grosse as the D. doth againste the churches election To the D. firste reason againste the churches election vvhich standeth in that there haue bene great contentions and diuersitie off myndes amongeste the churches I answer that the Apostles vvhen there fell a contention and a iarr amongest those off the church neuer entred into any such deliberation off cuttinge awaye the churches libertie contrariwise they estemed the neareste waie to heale vppe the breach to gyue them some thinge more in that election off Deacons then was ordinarie For where they were accustomed to shew the way in other elections and by ripenes off their iudgemente helpe the weaknes off the People there they suffring the church to goe before folowed with their approbation And not onely in respecte off that election but if a man will consider the vvhole estate off the primatiue church in the Apostles time it shall appeare plainly that if there were euer good cause to take away the churches election throwgh contentions and diuersities off mindes that was in the Apostles times For the churches off God then almoste throwghowt the world standinge of Iewes and gentils and there beinge such a naturall hate betweene those two peoples as vvhatsoeuer the one woulde the other commenly vvoulde not and contrarywise if the Apostles had iudged that for reason vvhich the D. estemeth highe vvisdome they shoulde neuer haue permitted any election vnto the churches For albeit the knittinge off both those peoples into one profession off the gospell did mortefy that deadly hatred which was naturally in thē yet notwithstandinge yt appeareth by diuers places off the scripture that there vvere such remnantes off that hatred lefte that nether the Apostles them selues which were so vvise peace makers and so kunninge tiers off loue knotes nor yet the ministers and elders which had receiued the firste fruictes off the spirite off God coulde kepe them from moste daungerous contencions And Maister Zuinglius off vvhom the D. woulde seeme to receiue some succour in this cause euen when their churches were moste dangerously infected with Anabaptistry and many nourished it in wardly vvhich durste not vtter it openly teacheth that this forme off choise by the churche was to be kepte Nether is it to bee passed by that Basil noteth that one Anthimus in choosinge a bishop withowt the churches voices filled all Armenia vvith sedition Whervnto add the testimonie off Chrysostome where he askinge vvhy Peter communicated the election vvithe the Disciples answereth leste the matter shoulde be tourned into a bravvle and haue fallen to a contention When he assigneth the cause off contention cleane contrarie to the D. that the election was not communicated with the church Secondarily iff the churches elections shoulde be taken awaie because off cōtentions which happen in them Monarchies which oft haue declyned into tyrānie and bene abused to oppression off the subiectes shoulde haue had an ende long a goe and other such moste lawfull and necessarie aides off this present life owghte to be taken awaie as those which are abused And to come to ecclesiasticall affaires councelles by the D. reason owght to haue no place in the churches off Christe off which it is saide that there was neuer seen good issue of them and that throwgh merueilous ambition and desyre off contention in them thinges ovvte off order vvere not remedied but made vvorse Thirdly the examples off the contentions which the D. hath heaped vpp to gether beside that they are in parte not off the churche with yt selfe but off the church with hererickes which is her commendation as in the election off Ambrose beside that also it is noted specially that the people off Alexandria was off a Mutinous and stirring nature and therfore vniustly obiected againste the whole estate of the church beside this I saie thes examples alledged by the Answ are so farre from weakeninge the churches election that they make yt stronger For notwithstandinge those contentions had vnder bothe Christian magistrates and Bishops there was not onely no counseill taken to barre the churches off their election but were as hath bene shewed councells from time to time to ratifie yt And if the Emperours and Bishops had not thowght yt necessary that the churches shoulde haue intereste in their elections or had thowght as the D. that bothe the churches were put in hasarde of false teachers and the commenwealth off vprores by reason off popular elections yt had bene greate folie or madnes rather to haue suffred that which they mighte haue so easelie remedied Which opinion off the necessitie off the churches interest as yt hath appeared by diuers examples before alledged so maie it clearly be seene in the letters off the good Emperour Constantine to the Cytisens off Nicomedia which althowghe they had chosen to his great greife one Eusebius Bishop dooth not therfore take awaie the election from them but moueth to a newe And albeit they had abused their righte in
haue saide or Doctors then and Doctors if he had ment to make them all one But all this had not needed if the Ans woulde haue stoode by his former worde in the writinge intitled The Doctors booke For in sayinge there that the Apostle in the Epistle to the Corint speaketh onely off Apostels Prophetes and Doctors Leauing out Euangelistes and yet Euangelistes and pastors necessarie he dooth manifestly confesse that thes functions differ betwene them selues Nether can he saie that he spake there accordinge to my sense For I had not then ether spoken or written any worde off that matter Thus in that he is called the Doctor off suche a churche in parte is answered the question how yt can be shewed that he is tied to a certeine churche And for further answer when as admitting that there is suche an office he can not denie but the institution off it is amongest other spoken of vnto Titus all those mynisteries being appointed to a certein towne and congregation yt foloweth that that office ys likewise Moreouer considering that exhortation and doctrine be necessary for the interteinement off a churche in the trwe seruice off God in that S. Paul parting thes betwene the Pastor and Doctor and placing the office off the Pastor especially in exhortation ascribeth that off teaching principally to the Doctor yt followeth that the Pastor being tied vnto a place the Doctor muste also wherby is likewise answered his other question how it can be proued that the doctor was gyuen in aide off the pastor for the pastor being by the bādes of his vocatiō especially tied vnto exhortation a supplie of teaching being nedefull it must be fetched at his handes whose proper profession that is Last off all herby appeareth what an abuse yt is in the vniuersitie that they are created doctors which not onely doo not the office but haue not so muche as a certeine place assigned to teach in which amongest other are the two principall thinges I mislike as vnlawfull Where in the end off his booke he saith that it were cofusion and Barbarisme to take away such degrees he doth shamefull iniury to diuers reformed churches in Sauoy and Swisserland where all kinde of learning and good behauiour florishing those degrees are not But it is to be noted that together with the churches Musculus especially hath his part in this charge off Barbarisme c. The churches not hauing the other degrees in artes which are indifferent gyue no sentence off the Doctorshipp but Musc doth plainly declare his misliking For hauing spoken against the popish Doctors he addeth vvherfore I haue often merueiled vvhat diuers notable ministers off Christ meane that they glory so much off the title off an vniuersitie Doctorship as though any autoritie came to their doctrine therby Where it is knowen that those whom he ment were modest gloriyng no further then that as a meanes to draw more credit to their ministery they receyued it which Muscul to wcheth them for Therfore onles he had bene driuen headlong he would at least haue left his degrees indifferent and not such as withowt which no godly honestie nor ciuilitie can stand In the next diuision his answer is vnsufficient For the reason against reading Ministers is not onely because they are appoincted to no certein place but for that they are vtterly without all ministerie and whether euer they shal be or no yt hangeth ether off their owne or off their patrones pleasure So that if ether he forthincking him selfe like the shop better then the churche or the patrone will kepe the dore shut against suche insufficient men which the bishopp opened so wide or as sometime falleth out they can not agree of their market yt comet to passe that he is made a Minister which ether can not or will not not onely not fulfill but not so much as lay hand off that ministerie whereunto he was appointed Contrary vnto the rule off Saint Paul that leueth not this in choise but commaundeth precisely that if after triall they be found blameles they should exercise their ministerie To proue that there may be a rouing ministerie and some which may haue the walk of a whole prouince here is first alledged that the Apostels visited the places where there were seuerall Pastors Whereunto the answer is that that function off the Apostels was extraordinary as shall appeare and therfore at no hand to be drawne vnto our times Secondly is brought the example of Darius which beside 120. gouernoures set ouer the seuerall prouinces made three other to ouersee the◠Wherunto I answer that the Lord hath in assigning offices off the commen wealth left the libertie vnto men which he hath not doon in offices off the church The reason whereoff is manifest considering that they bothe are off greater sufficiency to ordeine offices for the commodities of this life then for those off the life to come and the errour in appointing of them is not so daungerous Eusebius sheweth howe Constantine inuented newe degrees off honour to pleasure those which were about him This not being forbidden in ciuill gouernemēt I thincke the A. dare not say it is lawfull to be doon in the gouernement off the church Hereby also is answered the surmise off kinges which being called sheapherds should by this meanes haue their dominions restreined vnto the gouernement off one cytie For the scripture hauing not determined whether there should be a Prince ouer euery citie as it hath that euery assembly should haue a pastor and the enmities and assaultes against the ciuill estate not being so great and daungerous as against the spirituall yt can by no meanes followe that the tying off the Minister vnto one church should enclose the Princes aucoritie in the circuit off one citie But it is to be obserued that both the D. reasons off the Apostels visiting and of Darius pollicie leade to Rome For yt followeth vppon them that one may haue ouersight of all the Ministers seing that both euery off the Apostels had autoritie to visite any church through the world and euen off those three vvhich were ouer the gouernours off 120. prouinces Daniel was the cheif And albeit we leaue no place ether to those rouing or owtgrowne ministeries yet the sheapherds and watchmē want not therefore their ouerseers considering that the Ecclesiasticall Senate doth not onely watch ouer the body off the church but euery one off them ouer an other and especially ouer the mynister off thes also as euery one in brotherly equalitie ought to admonishe so iontly they haue autoritie not onely to admonishe but by Ecclesiasticall censures to chastise the default off their minister Yf they also faile the Synodail assemblies haue interest as I haue before alledged And if the fault be suche as requireth cyuill punishement the Magistrate is the watchman appointed off God for that pourpose Where he saith that a similitude maketh a matter plaine but proueth not
proue an Apostel yt proueth one sent not to a prouince or kingedome but vnto one singular person onely But who would voutsafe an answer to such scrapinges Against that I alledged to proue that Iunias and Adronicus were no Apostels for that a man may be famous amongest the Apostels and yet no Apostel he opposeth Martyr that semeth to doubt whether the wordes will beare that sense which I leaue to the readers iudgement The other reason that S. Paul calleth them kinsfolke and fellowe prisoners and not fellow labourers which his vse is when he speaketh of those which haue any ministery of the gospell he towcheth not He hathe raked vp to no no pourpose a number off bare opinions which I will not wrestell with considering that nothing thereby falleth froÌ„ our cause For if both Epaphroditus and these be Apostels such as Paul and Barnab I refer my self to that where I haue shewed that that function is ceassed If in the generall signification for that they are sent to preach yt maketh nothing to the question seing the D. must shewe that there is an ordinary particular function off Apostelship seuered from the office off a Pastor Euangelist and Prophete Where he saith he alledged them to proue that some nowe may preache which haue no certein clere I could not thinck himso forsaken off all iudgement that he would make such a conclusion howbeit I trust nowe he hath his answer That I alledged the Apostels declaring that they vvould not haue this order continued in the church in that they renevved not that order of Apostels as they vvere taken avvay by death he answereth first that the scripture doth not expresse it As yf S. Luke which so diligently described the election off Matthias would haue quit ouerleaped this if there had bene any And considering that they had not such cause to drawe them to a newe consultation of a newe Apostel as in the 1. Act. which was an expresse word off taking an other into the roume off Iudas it is manifest that they attempted no such thing after So that alththough yt be not expressed yet it is conteined in scripture that there was no consultation off an other Apostel Yf not howe is he as he saith persuaded that there was none chosen into their places or how knoweth he that it was not necessarie will he still haue his persuasions in diuinitie without the word without which they are no persuasions but idle phansies After he asketh who euer saied that there muste be twelue Apostels nether more nor lesse as though my reason tended to that But yf the Apostels did not vphould that small nomber off twelue which the Lord instituted yt proueth that their minde was not to choose about that nomber And if they would not continue 12. to gather the â—2 tribes off Israel scattered thoroughe the whole worlde they ment not that there should be a greater nomber to gather those which were scattered in one Iland To that I alledged off Ambrose which saith that he vvould not take vpon him the estate of an Apostel he answereth that he saied so to abase him selfe because in an other place he chalengeth not the circumspection off a pastor will he neuer wake out off this sleepe for to let passe that not to acknowledge the grace of God bestowed on him is a fault as to chalenge that which he hath not receiued and not to enter here into his abilitie of doing the office of a Pastor doth he not see that the cawse off not taking vpoÌ„ him the estate off an Apostel is assigned not in his disablenes but in that which the greatest wit learning and godlines off those times could not come vnto that is to say that none could chalenge the office off an Apostell but he vvhom the sonne off God him selfe had chosen He might aswel say that it is a point off great modestie for a man to professe that he cannot clyme vp into heauen withowt a ladder Nether is this Ambrose iudgement onely but Ignatius which in those epistles that the D. will haue rightly borne saith that he vvill not commaund them any thinge as an Apostell In deed Nouatus a runnegate Manes a Phranticke Martiall a coleprophet Romish Augustine the Anabaptistes off our time and such brambels haue intitled them selues by the name off Apostels and taken vpon them to ordeine others but all that haue had together with pietie any spark off iudgement haue beside their heresies condemned also this phrensie Cyprian reprocheth Nouatus that he sent forth newe Apostels August presseth the Manicheans once or twise which saied they were Apostels and demaundeth what scripture they could shew to shew themselues Apostels Whereby he declareth that he estemed no other Apostels then which had particular testimonie off the scripture which thing he neuer laide to the charge off other orders off the Manichean Ministers Zuinglius also chargeth the Anabaptistes aswell for that they tooke vpoÌ„ them the office as also for that they chalenged the name off Apostel But the D. seing his folie laide open to the derision off younge children hath in fauour off his Apostels and Prophetes inuented a newe distinction For where I alledged certeine proper markes off the Prophetes as foretelling thinges to come and Apostels as immediat calling from God seing off Christ embassadge into the whole world which not falling into any function nowe in vse proue that they are ceassed he aswereth that Prophetes and Apostels in such respectes are ceassed but continue still as towching preaching the gospell Then which what can be more bluntly spoken For yt as much as yf one should say that a beast is a man although not in respect that it hath a naturall capacity off reason and speach yet in that it liueth and hath sense as a man For as a man and a beast being both liuing thinges are seuered one from an other by their properties and speciall differences as they be called off the Logicians euen so Apost Prophetes Euangelistes Pastors Doctors being all preachers off the Gospell are seuered by that wherein they differ one from an other And as he can be no man which hath none off those differences whereby a man is seuered from other liuing thinges so he can not be Prophete or Apostel which hath nothing whereby he may differ from a Pastor Doctor or Euangelist Yt is also too childishe that he vnderstandeth not how the difference off a thing which is the substantiall forme being taken away the thing it selfe can not remaine Therefore yf the D. will haue Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes remaine he must shew howe both euerie one off those nowe differ from them selues and from the functions off Pastor and Doctor In which behalf he hath bene hacking but his tooles will not enter For this newe Apostels office is placed in preaching the word where need requireth the Prophetes in an especiall gift off interpreting the
out off Bulling Muscul Heming to be preaching the gospell purely and constantly is nothing to the pourpose For we graunt yt is true but that there is further vnderstanded which may seuere hym from other ministers off the word Whereoff Caluin assigneth thes reasons one that by ascribing vnto him this degree aboue that off Pastors he might procure him more autoritie the other that he might thereby gyue the spur to stir vp and enforce him self to all carefull trauaile off answering so highe a calling Off both which reasons he assigneth a manifest cause which is that the Apostel throughout his whole epistle driueth vnto those two endes This is yet clearer for that where other titles off Apost Prophe c. be caried off the scripture from their particular vnto a generall signification this word off Euangelist set a part this place in controuersie is not vsed but to note that proper office opposed vnto other ministeries off the word And therefore the Apostel hauing occasion to speake off this word preacher shunneth as semeth the word Euangelist and vseth an other when as notwithstanding the word Euangelist was proper to holy writ and thother commen to prophane off which reason also I left a step in the place before recited Againe Eusebius howsoeuer otherwise he forgetteth him self where he speaketh off that proper office noteth it out by the same manner of speache which the Apostell saying they did the vvorcke off Euangelistes Last off all it appeareth by that the scripture setteth forth off him both before he was at Ephesus and after touchching his ministerie in many places where the Apostels had tawght before that the worcke off Euangelist is taken in that particular signification whereby it is seuered from other Ministers considering that the Euangelistes office was to water where the Apostles had planted and to be assistant vnto them His third answer is a mash and bruing of all together drinck fitter for horse then men For to be sure to make Timothe a bishop he thinketh that one at one time may be Apostle Euangelist Doctor bishop and I can not tell what which is directly against the word off god As when yt saith that God gaue some Apostels some Prophetes againe he set first Apostles secondly Prophetes c. Againe are all Apostels are all Prophetes c. Whereby appeareth that the holy gost placeth thes diuers giftes in seuerall persones and that they are one vnder an other so that onles one and the same maÌ„ may at one time be second and third inferior and superior before and after him selfe yt can not be that one at one time can be Apostle Euangelist c. hetherto perteineth which is towched in the former booke that the Apostel bringeth off the likenes off constitution off our bodies with the church that as the naturall bodie so the spirituall of the churche is best preserued and mainteined in most comelines when euery member doth his proper office and of the contrary side â—â— th one so thother is hurt and disfygured when one breaketh vpon an other Whereuppon yt is euident how vntrue yt ys which the D. doth in so great assurance set downe that one may be Euangelist and Bishop at one time Besides that he is confuted by his owne wordes For if the office off an Euangelist be to preach more feruently then others which significatioÌ„ those three which he hath set downe onely as that which putteth a differeÌ„ce betweÌ„ yt aÌ„d others caÌ„ staÌ„d theÌ„ he caÌ„ be no bishop coÌ„sidering that euery office hath his proper gift according to the measure whereof it is exequuted And yt is as absurd that a bishop should preach more ferueÌ„tly aÌ„d beyoÌ„d the measure of a bishop as yt is that a maÌ„ may leape beyond him self ouerrun himself yt is saide that one in his full age differeth from him selfe in his childhood and a man at one time may after a sort passe hym self at an other but that he should differ from him self at one and the same time as the D. iudgement implieth this is the first tydinges I haue heard off yt Againe yt is houlden off all that I haue red Zuinglius onely excepted which maketh a bishop and an Euangelist all one that both an Euangelist is not and a bishop is bound to a certaine place And this difference is thus far confessed off the D. that the Pastor is more bound to one speciall church then the Euangelist which yf yt be true a man being as he saith at one time both bishop and Euangelist may be also at one time bound and not bound vnto one place haue a speciall charge off one and indifferent off all which will be hard for him to bring to passe without he worcke miracles For his reasons whereupon this opinion standeth that Saint Paul is called a Doctor S. Mathew and Iohn being Apostels are off writers called Euangelistes they are far from prouing this Touching the fyrst Saint Paul ys not called a Doctor symply but with addition Doctor off the Gentils declaring that his Mynistry perteined not to one kingdome but vnto all which is all one with an Apostel Towching thother he should vnderstand that our question ys not off an Euangelist as writers but as Sainct Paul taketh Euangelist which can be by no meanes vnderstanded off him which writeth the storie off the gospell considering that Philip which is confessed to haue bene an Euangelist in that sense was none Yff he say that the Apostle ment to set forth twoo kindes of Euangelistes one preaching onely an other preaching and writing too I answer that Saint Paule pourposing there to set forth the liberalitie off the Lord in giuing preaching ministries vnto the church was nether so negligent a commender off the grace off God nor so drie and poore off speach but yf there had bene an other seuerall ministerie as this answer supposeth he both would and could haue vsed an other word as a seuerall dishe to haue presented this gift with And seyng the D. bringeth in S. Paul offring one onely gift of the bishoprik vnto the church in two wordes as it were two dishes what likelihood ys there that he would thrust vp so narrowly thes two giftes whereoff ech off them being more excellent then the bishoprick asketh greater roume Moreouer by the same reason that men may call Saint Mathew and Saint Iohn Euangelists becawse they wrote the stories of the gospell they may call S. Paul and Peter c. For as they wrote the storie so thes wrote the summe off the whole doctrine off the gospell They being therefore both writers off the gospell in this rule of esteeming Euangelistes by writing muste needes be a like Euangelistes For the greeke word fauoureth the one as well as the other yt being as ioyfull newes which S. Peter and Paul wrote as that which S. Mathew and Iohn For the difference off storie and summe bring not a graine weight to pull the name of
the speciall function off a Pastor The same may be saide off Beza which calleth S. Paul a Bishop with diuers other wherin writers speaking off one in passing and not off pourpose content them selues with those generall titles which notwithstanding when they inquired into the natures off them as we doo here spake otherwise which vse is also noted off Cicero And to shut vp this matter it is to be vnderstanded that there be diuers significations off thes wordes Apostles Propheres Doctors c. for in generall signification they agree vnto all ministers off the word Considering that all are sent all feed teach and by a trope are saide to prophecie Their other signification which S. Paul setteth forth is particular and agreeth onely to onely to one seuerall ministrie Obserue then how the D. hath trifled when as a part off our question being whether there be now Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes in particular significatiō and as they differ aswell one from an other as from Pastors and Doctors he hath brought certein places where thes names be taken generally and as euery off them may be verified off all mynistries off the word as yf vpon that the Maior off the citie is called sometimes the officer sometimes the Magistrate he should conclude that he hathe three seuerall offices And where an other part off our question being whether these functions are now ordinary or extraordinary perpetuall or for some ruinous time he hath taken vpon him to proue them ordinary and perpetuall he hath alledged testimonies which confessing that some off thes ministeries haue bene found in our daies ad partly in expres wordes partly in wordes and circumstances of like valew that they were extraordinary that they are but for a time then which what can be greater mockery off his reader And so I trust yt appeareth aswell vpon the argumentes I haue vsed as vpon the shame off the D. answers that off all the mynisteries of the word reckened of S Paul there remaine onely Doctor and Pastor and that the function off Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes haue no place in the church onles the lord immediatly styr them vp withowt the ordinary calling by men Off the necessarie residence of the Pastor 4. Tractat. 5. according to the D. Cap. 1. Diuis 1. pag. 235. THe D. to deliuer the Non residents from the crime he ys charged with flieth from the iudgement off the word off God vnto his owne conscience so that yf he and his conscience although astonished or blindled can agree off some easier way thē is debated all mouthes are shut vp to speake against him And pa. 238. he saith that preaching and priuate exhortations must be according to the conscience and discretion off the Pastor which is too shamefull a saying In stead wheroff if he had put a good conscience which will admit no persuasion but out off the word off God he had openly begged that in question The lord knew too well the vnreformed corners and false doores of the best cōscicēces to cōmit his church which he loued so dearly vnto their courteousie When Saint Paul cōfesseth that he was not as towching his ministrie iustified albeit his conscience cast him not in the teeth of any thing he had doon he declareth that the conscience is no sufficent rule to direct the minister in his charge ▪ Yet his was more Chryst allike then is to be hoped after off any now and when he saith that all the worckes off a good minister are taught out off the scripture inspired off God he incloseth the Pastor within streighter boundes then the Answ which leaueth him in the large field or wildernes rather sometime off his conscience sometime of the peoples pleasure That which he bringeth off the examples off the Apostels and Euangelistes is absurd considering that both the callinges are diuers and euen in the very point whereoff the question is towching the place yt is confessed of him that the Pastor hath one certein appointed him to exercise his charge which the other haue not Off this sorte is that he alledgeth after off sonas the Prophet whose mynistery was altogether extraordinary towardes the Nineuites Whiche yf yt proue any thinge yt proueth that the pastor after he hathe once laide open the synnes off his flocke and denounced the iudgement against them may goe his waies withowt ether deputy or returne Likewise that off S. Paul Act 20. free from the Ephes bloud becawse he had declared them the whole counsail off God. Which is first impertinent considering that the pastors teaching at his charge is not to be compared with the Apostels teaching at one church but at all the churches of his Apostelship Then yt ys apparantly againste him considering that the Apostle which cleareth him selfe off their bloude doth nowithstanding all the knowledge they had charge the pastors with watche and warde ouer them as those which should answer for them So that onles S. Paules diligence had bene poursued in feeding them which were alredy so well fed not the people onely but the pastors also should haue perished And euen the extraordinary callinges are so far from strenghthening thes startinges a side from appointed charges that they help to binde them more streitly to them ▪ for they had not onely a generall calling to execute their function but withall speciall direction vnto the persons and places vnto which the Lord would haue their ministrie to apperteine for when those off Nazareth thought muche that our Sau. Christ healed in other cyties off Galile and not in theirs where he was brought vp he alledgeth the calling off God which sent him to doo miracles in other places rather then there and sheweth the cawse why Elias rather relieued the extreme famin and Elizeus cured the leprosie of straungers then of their owne countrey for that they were sent vnto them Also desired to tary in a place he saide it was not at his libertie to tary but that he muste preach to other cyties alledging this reason that he was sent off his father so to doo Considering therefore that they had not onely generall callinges to doo their duties but also where and to whom muche more in the callinges which are ordinary and certein it owght to be obserued that men haue not onely callinges to preach but direction vnto the place and parties to whom they should preach Which because yt is not now without calling of the church yt followeth there can be none such That he addeth if he haue care off them is altogether from the cawse considering that the pastors care is but one part of his duty and may be taken off one neuer present Likewise that of his sufficient deputy beside that yt cometh after to be spoken of if the absence he phansieth be vnlawfull the deputy for yt ys idly mentioned I alledged that the Euangelistes and Apostles taried more in one place then in an other Which may be easely vnderstanded
not to seek corners in the diuers interpretation off the place when as that off the Actes doth in plaine and confessed speach vtter the same that is here debated off After he addeth howsoeuer the place be expounded yet it maketh not against him No if S. Peter and Paul crye neuer so highe in this language of continuall residence yet the D. is deaf and will not heare Yf both the Apostles doo not only commaund the Pastors to feed in their proper flockes not onely that they must employ their talentes but vvhere yt ys manifest that they shut owt that rouing abroad vnto other churches vvhich is pretended for Non residence I shewed how the argument is good taken from the place off the Thessal that for so much as S. Paul conceiued a great greif in being absent a small space from those to whom he was not so streitly bound as the Pastor to his flock the Pastor owght muche more to be greiued to be away from his flock And consequently thereoff must follow that if their absence sat so neer their hartes as yt owght yt would hang such plummets off their heales as should hinder them from those lightfooted leapes which he mainteineth I added also that the Pastor hauing the same dutie vnto his proper church vvhich the Apostles had tovvardes all the churches of their charge yt must follovv that as they vvere continually in their ministery tovvardes some off those churches so the Pastor should be continuall vppon the charge off his church That he bringeth against this that the Apostle did not speake this in any duty off mynistery for that a learned man noteth off that place how the sainctes desire to see one an other bodely is ridiculous as if his desire to see them could not stand with the duty off the his mynistery In the two next diuis vnto the reasons alledged off the Pastors care so much more stirred vp as he seeth the blessing of God vpon his labour and of familiar acquaintaÌ„ce needfull in a Pastor tovvardes his flock to embolden them to come vnto him both vvhich are best procured by continuall residence he answereth nothing where I alledged the singular loue by this meanes vvrought betvvene the Pastor and the flock he asketh me how I know it seing I had neuer experience in any I know yt of the cawses off loue whereoff the daily conuersation and delight to be together is one off the principall off naturall reason which I cyted owt off Aristotle that teacheth how men haue greater care ouer thinges proper vnto them then ouer those that are commen to them with moe And hauing greater care yt followweth they haue greater loue from whence the care proceedeth Likewise I know yt by experience in the Apostle S. Paul which vttereth greater affections off loue towardes the Corinth and Philip. and other with whom heremaineed longest and suffred moste for then towardes the other churches where he made not that abode nor tooke so great paines He asketh what Aristotle had to doo with non residence if yt had bene but Balams asse he should haue bene schoolemaster fit enough for some which refuse to be taught by the vvord off god But this is one off M. D. oracled which he saith owght to be belieued considering that speaking off the naturall causes off preseruation of thinges for which I alledged him he spake of thinges perteining to his profession That he chargeth me with not reporting Aristot vvordes truly is a wrangling cauill for I kept the sense off the autor considering that a thing commen to many requireth the care off many That he saith it can not be true that it is neglected off all which is cared for off all is to childish considering the flower off speach so often vsed off all writers both prophane and holy as they liuing are dead hauing nothing possesse all thinges he that is euery where is no where Nether is care taken in lesse measure then yt owght to be which I speake off contrary to neglect as he supposeth but a kinde off neglect That he addeth a man owght not so take care off hit priuate thinges as to neglect the commen wealth is froÌ„ the pourpose seing the pastor in his charge ouer his flock serueth not him self but the commen profit and that off the whole church forasmuch as it perteineth to the commoditie off the vvhole body that the part which he hath the nourishement off be well preserued beside that I haue shewed how the care for other churches may be with a continuall residence at his owne In the next diui skowring ouer againe the remouing of Apostles and EuaÌ„gelistes from place to place which is answered he addeth that the Pastors did the same which is vtterly vntrue that a man may be transferred from one place to an other which is no part of the question that those which haue gyuen their names to the gospell are sufficiently armed with faith although the Pastor be not present which is absurd when the armour off faith with the rest off the complete harnesse off o Christian which he speaketh off in the next diuis is not so put vpoÌ„ but that it is daily to be put on and that by the preaching off the gospell especially He saith further that although they be tempted yet they can not be ouercome which is confuted not â—nely by diuers examples of moste excellent sainctes Noe Dauid Peter c. but by whole churches off Galatia c. which haue bene caried away by false teachers For if he speake off the finall victory yt is absurd consydering that that dependeth off the election off God vnknowen vnto him and may be aswell saied off the elect which haue not yet belieued Likewise that it is a more acceptable worck to gaine those which are altogether in ignorance vvherein beside that he taketh vppon him to be a planter off churches which before he assigned to be proper to the Apostles I answer that albeit it be neuer so good a worck in yt self yet it is not good much lesse the best vnto him which hath no calling therunto And in that he presumeth a calling he doth but beg that in controuersy which is also before refuted That he alledgeth off the loste groat â–ª Prodigall sonne c. maketh against him considering that those places are not off straungers from the church but off them vvhich after knowledge off the truth fall into some corruption of life or doctrine as appeareth in the parable of the stray sheep which although it be of the same kinde with thother two he hath by all likelihood left owt because it did more plainely shew his folie In this respect also S. Iames saieth that a man that gaineth his brother straied from the truth sâ—ueth a sowle He saieth his brother not his neighbowr Therefore this moste excellent worck off conuerting sinners and finding off those which are lost being alwaies in the purest churches through the ambicion
then will he conclude of an ynch an ell off a week a moneth off a moneth half a yeare and off a case off necessitie make an ordinary licence when S. Paul will haue him which entreth into this warfare off ministry to vnwrap him self off all occasions which may drawe him from yt being already entred he will much lesse suffer that he should ether feek new occasions off absence or take all that are offered Our Sauiour Christ not suffring those whom he called to this worke to goe bury their dead and giue the farewell vnto those off their howse declared sufficiently that they owght to be very vrgent cawses which should drawe the mynister off the word from the charge committed vnto him And when his loue towardes God must be moten by feeding off his flocke committed vnto his charge his long and often voluntary absence must needes proue a small loue in him towardes the lord Which reason being alledged is altogether vnanswered This rare absence and that vppon vrgent cawse may appeare a so by the practise of the church The Councell off Mens decreing that the Bishop vpon sickenes or some other vrgent cause off absence not able to preach should haue some euery sonday and other festdayes to preach in his steed declareth that the vse off the church did nether suffer the bishop to be away but vpon great cawse and that not so much as one holy day withowt a preaching minister to supply his place Augustine saieth that he vvas not absent frō the church of Hippo but cōpelled by sickenes Zuinglius putting difference betweene an Apostel and Pastor saieth that he that doth the office off a Pastor is alvvaies in the povver of the church ouer vvhich he is set and neuer goeth from it Vppon which both testimonies off the scripture and practise off the church yt appeareth how to haue a deputy owght not to be as the D. would haue it an accoustomed thing but rare and vpon vrgent causes Where before he alledgeth for profe off a deputy that there is no shepherd which hath not a boy or a man to supply his absence he owght to vnderstand that our Sauiour Christ is that master shephherd and therefore he being but a seruant can no more set ones his charge then one seruant discharge him self vppon an other Beside what sheepmaister is there of so smal housbandry which will be content that his stipend should be mangled and a portion giuen vnto an hyreling for a monethly or quarterly ouersight off his flocke suffer the shepherd to enioy the rest yt may well be for the poursprofit off the shepherd but it can not be but to the great scare off the sheep considering that not onely the hyred can not by any likelyhood haue that care ouer the flocke which the proper pastor hath but also that all this disputacion tendeth hether that they may haue a reading or other in sufficient substitute which as the shepherdes boy or rather eurr content with a locke or twoo will leaue Maister Person the maister shepherd the rest off the fleese For such is their fidelity that where as in times past the preistes are commaunded to beare the arck vpon their owne shoulders so they should feed their flockes them selues they are not onely content to shift yt from their owne shoulders but as the foolish and idle preistes in committing yt to such vnstilfull gouernours they lay yt vpon a cart hale yt with oxen not with the aduenture but with certeine euent of an ouerthrow Although herein I speak too fauorably off the greatest nombre off them which doo not bestowe so muche coste as a new cart and a draft off oxen come to For they haue learned their howsebandry rather off him which teacheth that alvvaies it standeth a man in least vvhich may be doon by a poore asse And if this carting off the church of God were sent home to our popish Philisthins from whence yt came the kitchen fyre being thereby well abbated this disputation for adeputy would be well cooled For an able man would either for conscience or honesties sake kepe him selfe from this hyrelingship I say consciēce because amongest other corruptions he can not auoide the crime off Simony as they call yt whylest to obteine a place he is content to part stakes with the Pastor Honesty whylest all not seruill minded will rather choose to be free then vnder the yoke off an other mannes seruice His second questiō whether the flocke be not in like daunger in the Pastors absence with leaue as withowt is altogether from the pourpose when it is no lawfull for him nether with leaue nor without leaue to be away with daunger off his flocke His third where I finde in scripture that the Pastor owght to haue leaue off his parish is answered in that I shewed that the Pastors are belonging to their churches and are their seruantes which he altogether passeth by His laste asketh how he cā in his absence haue an able deputy seing he may not be admitted to the ministery which hath not a certeine flocke As though in suche necessitie for so small a time the supply may not be made by the Pastors hard by which is also answer to that he obiecteth pag. 249. Vnto the next diuis I answer not Vpon that many parishes may be ioined in one and fix townes in Fraunce as he saith are committed vnto one Pastor he concludeth that one Pastor may haue diuers flockes which is vnworthy any answer As if a thowsand sheep in one pasture were not easelier and with more cōmoditie tended then three in three sheepgates For as towching the preaching off the word and administring the Sacramentes vnto diuers townes assembled into one bodie vff a church the labour is almoste all one in ten and ten hundred The residue off the charge being commen with him vnto the rest off the elders may be especially in such necessities borne owt by increasing their numbre according to the compas off the churches territorie Yt is also vntrue that he affirmeth I haue saide that the numbre or distance off place is all one And yt is inconuenient that ether a greater numbre be assembled into the bodie off one particular church then can be at once tawght off one mouth or that the numbre should be taken owt off townes farther remoued from the places off the churches resort then that they may haue conuenient accesse Likewise yt is vntrue which he saith off six townes to one Pastor in Fraunce For although one church be assembled owt off diuers townes yet it falleth owt that the least part off those townes perteineth vnto the church and those fewe meet together in one place to receiue the nourriture prouided for them off the Lord by the hand off their Pastor To that alledged that the Pastor if he vvill haue many flockes should content him selff vvith that stipend off them all vvhich
God could not cheare him vp againe by preaching wherunto they are as fit as an oxe to flie Witnes the D. him selfe which addeth that our ignorant ministers may by study so profit in knowledge that they may be able priuately to exhort Where yt is merueilons to see how he fometh owt their shame whom he hath taken to his defense Yf he had saied that in time with study they might be able to preach yet forsomuche as while that grasse groweth the people perish his answer had bene vntollerable Now gyuing no further hope then that in time they will be able priuately to admonish which euery Christian owght to doo he hath gyuen sentence off them that they will neuer be able to doo the worcke off Pastors wheroff they beare the name that is that they will neuer be but idoles What they doo by reading is after to be seen The place of Osea which resecteth from the ministery those that haue not knâ—â—â—â—â—ge off the lawe becawse it failed a litle in the quotation he hath let quietly goe by Where he gyueth me the lie for that I ascribe vnto him this argument there must be reading in the church therfore ministers that can doo nothing but reade his wordes be thes I see not how yow can condemne reading ministers seing reading is necessary in the church let the reader iudge what a hard forehead he hath Where I concluded theruppon that euery one vvhich coulde breake bread distribute the cup c. should be a meet minister all see that it followeth vpon the former reason And this which the D. counteth a iest he is not able to answer in his greatest earnest His answer to the place off S. Iames is friuolous For his reason why the place off â— Luke commaunding the 12. disciples to preach can not be applied vnto our Ministers is for that other thinges ioyned with yt were temporall And this is his reason before that the example off the Apostels elections is to be followed wholy or not at all Therfore the place off S. Iames did fully confute his answer considering that the anointing of the sick coupled with praier by the elders off the church being temporall thother notwithstanding is perpetuall And this shift that that place was spoken off all ministers and thother off S Luke off the 12. onely will not couer his shame For what wil he say vnto the rules gyuen as the same tyme that they should be symple in their ministery as doues vvise as serpentes take heed off men are they not spoken to the ministers now becawse they were spoken then to the 12. onely What vnto that our Sauiour Christ commaunded to goe into all the world teaching and baptizing in the name off the Father Sonne and Holy Ghost which place shaketh hym owt of both his ragges for that was spoken to the eleuen Apostels onely and the coÌ„maundement off going into all the world was temporall Yet I thincke he dare not deny but the commaundement off baptizing in the name off Father Sonne and holy Ghost is perpetuall and belonging vnto all Pastors Wheruppon followeth that the place off S. Luke standeth still to whip owt vnpreaching Pastors In the pag. 483. this is handled againe Where I alledge that they be vnchangeable lavves 〈◊〉 God that he should not be minister off the church vvhich can not teach nor Minister Sacramentes vvhich can not preach the D. leauing the first which was the very cause shppeth to the second which is handled in an other Tract as that wherin his prouision was better Howbeit because I would not the D. cause should leese her aduantage by his ouersight I confesse that Chrysostomes testimonie may seeme to perteine to the cause in hand forasmuch as he maketh a kinde off preisthood not able to teach To whom with this exception that I will not be pressed with his autoritie further then he bringeth reason off the word off God I answer that as the word preisthood is often times in ecclesiasticall writers taken for the pastor and cheif minister off the church off which our present question is so sometime yt is taken for the elders ioined as helpers in gouernement vnto the pastor and whiche had not as shall appeare to doo doythe the preaching off the word and administration off the Sacramentes As when yt is saied that the Bishop chosen by Gods ordinance and the Elders ioyned vvith hym in the priestly honour According vnto which sense Chrysostomes saying maketh nothing to this question For we deny not but that he may be an elder and coÌ„sequently as they terme him a preist assistant to the pastor which is not able to preach but that he may be the pastor we vtterly deny So remaineth onely against vs in Chrysost testimonie that he may baptize that can not preach which with the rest perteining to that head shal god willing be in their proper place answered As for the 5. 1. Tim. towching the Elders which rule well in the treatise off the Presbytery yt shall appeare that it is not vnderstanded off these caterpillers where he requireth warrant off the word of God for that I confesse the church may appoint for a reader onely some graue man he confessing yt lawfull as well as I for answer to his request I refer him to that disputation where I haue proued that it is not lawfull to place any thing in the church not iustified by the word That the cavvse off this fevvnes off able ministers is partly the thrusting ovvt off those vvhich are fyt to teach partly that others fyt are not sought after it is manifest Whether they owght to be sought after and not to offer them selues I leaue to be estemed off that which is written in this point in the booke intituled off the discipline c. Whether they be off right thrust owt I leaue to be iudged off the discours off these controuersies whether they which are not yet entred haue iust cawse to forbeare I leaue to be considered off the disputation before and off that of the Archebishop Archedeacons Commissaries c. which followeth For if it fall owt that the calling be vnlawfull wherby the entrance should be made and the autoritie of the church tirantes such that being entred one can not walke in the way off his ministery prescribed off the lord then it must followe that although those that are entred hauing testimony off their conscience that they serue the lorde and keping themselues from the pollutions may poursue their course yet thes can not withowt shipwracke off conscience I speake off ordinary callinges euen in the very port or euer they launche forth commit them selues to this viage Where he saith there want no prouokinges to drawe them to the mynistery euen that is an other cawse off this scarcety for the church-liuinges so vnequally deuided that some fewe being druncken the moste hunger discourage from that study For the parent which followeth the sente off
absurdities laied vppon this foundacion as that the promesse off the assistance off gods spirit is as well gyuen to writers of homilies and their hearers as to studiers for sermons and those which heare them as if he had saied the Lord will giue testimonie to his word as wel by the meanes which mē haue deuised as that him self hath ordeined Likewise that sermons should be kept owt off the church as well as homilies if they should be shut owt because they are mennes interpretation considering that the preacher albeit he be a man yet in respect off his publicke ministery instituted and commaund of the Lord is as the angell off God yea as Christ him self which can not be saied off homily readers nor makers especially in that respect To that I alledge off the coustome off the Churches before our Sauiour Christes comming and after towching homilies not vsed in the church and that in such time vvhen there vvas greatest vse off them he answereth that the argument is of autoritie negatiuely where I leaue to the iudgement off the reader what likelihood there is that there were any homilies red in the church whē both holy and ecclesiasticall writers making mētiō of the forme of seruice of God in the church to the least and smallest ceremonies there is none diuers 100. yeares that ones vouchesafeth to mention homilies reading which the D. matcheth with preaching the highest seruice off God in his church Where he saith that I condemne thargument drawen off mennes autoritie yt is vntrue I said it constreineth not And I spake of it where yt is question off searching the truth off a matter wherin many easely deceiued none knoweth the full off it and not off reporting thinges doone in presence off him that writeth wherof he making profession to write can not withowt grosse ouersight passe by where he saith yt is an euill argument to conclude off a thing not doon that it shovld not be doon if the churches gouerned by the Prophetes and Apostles did it not it being put as a peece off the seruice off God and as the D. saith necessary ether they faulted in not vsing this meanes which is absurd or the D. which defendeth the vse off it He saith I can not but acknowledge one good sermon red to edify more then the Chalde paraphrastes so destitute off meanes to refute the reason I set downe why a short paraphrasis was meeter then homilies namely for that they approched nerer vnto the reading off the scripture vvhich is best he setteth his cause at my courtesie But if I graūt that he asketh he is nothing nerer onles he can proue that a learned homily is fitter then a learned paraphrase made now in this great light which the Chalde paraphrastes could not haue when they wrote So that although they expounding darckly according to the time they wrote in be not so fit now to reade as an homily yet yt standeth still that a pharaphrast is fitter to be red then an homily Where he saith I know that the Iewes haue thes paraphrastes yet red I shewed both by scripture ād otherwise that they had thē not openly red when there was greatest neede off them Yf they had them after when diuers corruptions were entred or now when they are the synagogue off Satan tha◠maketh rather for me They which tould hym that Ionathan was 42. yeares before our Sauiour Christ if they ment therby to confute that I set downe should haue gyuen him something to answer the autoritie I alledged Although he might be well 42. yearers before our Sauiour Christ and then too considering he was schoole fellow to Symeon off whom S. Luke maketh mention The testimonies off Denis and Clements Epistles red in the church to proue it vntrue which I affirmed off the churches practise towching reading off the scriptures alone after the Apostles tmes are in that respect idle considering that I onely shewed that that coustome continued after their tymes which were the best and purest Nether can the breaking off this order by some churches vppon some occasion let why it may not truly be saied both the coustome and practise Yf the Centuries coniecture were receiued that Denis epistles were red as Clementes yet that proueth not that they were red generally considering that Clements was red but in certeine churches But what if it be saied that they were red in those churches for that they were vntruly thowght of the Canon of the scripture Wherto serueth not onely that Denises were called Catholike but Clements weighty and wonderfull Likewise that Euseb esteeming Clement the canonicall translatour off the epist. to the Hebrues yt is not vnlike but he had that epistle in like estimation Last off all for that as he lightly reiected the true canonicall bookes off Saint Iames Iude and second off Saint Peter so he lightly held those for canonicall which were not yf I answer thus my coniecture hath better reason then yow yet shew and then the reading off these epistles helpeth yow not yow haue onely Soters which help nothing more being red onely at Corinth Howbeit it shall be sufficient answer that as other corruptions crept in then so the seed of this began to be sowen and that the credit which yowr cawse gaineth in that diuerse churches red them yt leeseth in that diuerse others receiued them not Likewise it maketh against him that the councell giueth no place vnto homilies but in extreme cases off sicknes c. off the minister where he maketh them the peoples ordinary food The councell as it were in a great drowght or snow when all is couered will haue the sheep holpen with this hard meat the D. will haue it their commen allowance Beside that it is the obiectiō which I myself im̄ediatly after preuented my answer wherunto the D. towcheth not but onely affirmeth it a good decree and no cawse off corruption which is grosse beggery considering that I shew how vppon occasion theroff in time came in the popish Legend and Gregories homilies which iustled owt the holy Bible Where I shewed that Bucers wordes secme counterfeit wherby he is browght exhorting to encrease the nomber off homilies when the Lord should blesse the realme with learned preachers forasmuch as there were then learned preachers able to make homilies which should haue exceded the volume of the Bible he answereth that there is no cause to suspect them but the reason he can not answer After he cyteth M Ridly but fondly for if the autority off all those which established that order be not able to make yt good much lesse his alone and being a party in this cawse he owght not albeit a singular mā be witnes Where I alledged the councell councell of Laodicea ordeining that nothing should be red in the church but the canonicall scripture he answereth the councell ment nothing vnder the name of holy scriptures which is an open and shamefull corruption for
cōmen wealthes and in the superiority which he hath ouer kinges and iudges he hath no superior but immediate autoritie vvith his father Therfore the mouldinge vpp off the two estates and gouernementes together is to lay the foundations off many errors Last of all admitting this distinctiō how cometh yt to passe that this poincte of his that there are manie archbishops in the owtward regiment off the church being that which is denied is lefte vvithowt any assistance off reason out off the scripture Here remaineth onely to proue the title Head off the church to belonge onely to our Sauiour Christe I muste therfore desyre the reader to tourne vnto the 6. diuis pag. 181. where the D. confesseth as much as I that Christe is onely the head of the church If Christe be onely head then that I set downe that the cyuill magistrate is head of the cōmonwealthe and not of the church standeth But if the magistrate be head off the church then Christe is not onelie Howbeit hauing for feare off the owtcry off all made a litle curtesie vnto the truthe he forth with lifteth vp his heele againste it and will haue the ciuill magistrate head also off the church wherupon muste followe infynite absurdities firste the doctrine off the Apostle is by this means cleane ouerthrowē which sheweth that this tytle Head of the church was gyuen to our Sau. Christe to lifte him aboue all powres rules and domyons ether in heauen or earth Where if this title belonge also vnto the cyuill magistrate then yt ys manifeste that there is a powre in earth vvherunto our Sauiour Christe is not in this pointe superior And by the same reason that he maie gyue the cyuill magistrate this title he maye gyue him also that he ys the fyrste begotten of all creatures the fyrste begotten off the dead yea the redemer of his people which he gouerneth For these all are a like gyuen vnto hym as dignities wherby he ys lyfted vp aboue all creatures And beside that the whole argumente off the Apostle in both places lead to shewe that this tytle Head off the church can not be saide of any creature yt ys confirmed by the demonstratiue article wherwith the Hebrewes esyecially whom Saint Paul folowed vse to tie that vvhich is verified off one vnto hym selfe alone For he saith he is the head as if he should saie he and none other is the heade of the church Againe if the church be the bodie of Christe ād of the cyuill magistrate yt shall haue two heades which being monsterous is to the great dishonor off Christe and his church So also shoulde come to passe that the church hauing the magistrate for head is accōplished and made a perfecte man without Christe so that the knittinge of our Sauiour Christe should not be an accomplishmente off that which lacked but an addition off that which is to much And if the churche be planted in a popular estate then forsomuch as all gouerne in commen and all haue autoritie all shall be head there and no body at all vvhich is another monster Now yf vve consider the cawses why our Sauiour Christe ys called the head of his church which are that as the head is the higheste parte in a man aboue which ther is none allwaies ioyned with the body so he ys the cheifest and highest in his churche inseperably knitte with yt and that as the head gyueth sense and mouing vnto all the bodye so he quickneth and to gether with vnderstanding of heauenly thinges gyueth strenght to walke therin I say when thes be the causes yt ys manifeste thes thinges nor no one off them ether agreing or hauing any possibilitie to agree with any creature in heauen or earth ether towards the whole church or towardes any partycular assembly that the name off the Head of the church can not be without great violence gyuen vnto any symple creature And yff yt be saied that the cyuill magistrate is a subordinate and mynisteriall head off the church as the magistrate beinge head off the commen wealthe hath other which maye be called vnder heades beneath hym he muste vnderstand that those heades are appoincted becawse the cheife magistrate can not be presente with the whole body off his people nor in his owne person performe the office of a head vnto them all But forasmuche as Christe is neuer seuered from his body nor from any parte off yt and is able and doth performe that wherfore he is called head vnto all his churche yt owghte not to seme strange that there may be a subordinate head in the commen wealth where there can be none in the church And as yt hath certaine grounde in the scripture that this tytle of head of the church is to highe to be gyuen vnto any man so hath yt bene confirmed from time to tyme by writers both olde and newe which haue had the honor off Christe in any conuenient estimation Let vs therfore see vvhether this ialousie ouer the title of head of the church not onely in respecte off the whole but in respecte also off a particular congregation haue their approbation Cyprian saith there is but one head off the church The bishop off Salsburie affirmeth the same Augustine proueth that the minister which baptiseth can not be the head off him which is baptized because Christe is the head off the vvhole church And in another place that Paule coulde not be head of the churches which he planted becawse Christe is head off the vvhole body which reason should be nothing worthe if ether Saint Paule or any other minister mighte be a ministery all head off the church vnder Christe And if the name of ministeriall head off the churches which Paule planted can not be gyuen vnto him which was a gouernour nexte and immediatly vnder Christe in that same kinde off gouernment in the which our Sauiour Christe is head that is to say spirituall no not then when there was no Christian magistrate to make chalenge vnto that title and to bring yt into dowbte whether yt belonged vnto S. Paule or to him yt can not be that the magistrate may take vnto him that title whose gouernmente doth not approche so nere vnto our Sauiour Christes as he is head off the church And as they haue taken awaye this tytle from the ministers ouer their flockes so haue they from Emperours and princes in regard off their subiectes Ambrose saith yt ys the greatest honor the Emperour can haue to be called sonne off the church and in the same Epistle a good Emperour is vvithin not aboue the chutch Caluin teacheth that there is but one onely head of the church vvhich is Christe that the name doth onely agree to him that in that name he can haue no substitute vpon earth Where yf yt be saide that he mente that off the Pope ouer all churches althowgh the disputation be directed againste the Pope yet his reasons are
gathering and keping off his church Thes groundes laied yt is to be considered whether the exercise off the sworde by the magistrate come from our Sauiour Christe preseruer off man kinde wherin he is coequal to his father or as mediatour off his church wherin he is inferiour Where forasmuche as our Sauiour Christes kingdome was not of this world and that against horrible disorders in his church punishable by the sworde he did not one extraordinary whipping excepted draw yt and considering that this lawfull ordinance off God is not onely in the churche but withowt yt is manifest that our Sauiour Christ in respecte off his mediatourship towardes vs exerciseth not the cyuill sword For in that he said his kingdome was not off this worlde he made an opposition not vnto the wicked off the worlde as other some times but vnto Cesars autoritie which was the ordinance of God wherto he was falsly charged to haue made claime And in that he drewe not the sword againste opē disorders it argueth that that was without the compas off his vocation otherwise he would neuer haue suffred the glory of God to haue bene troden vnder feet And in that the autoritie off the sword in heathen princes althowgh not a like vsed is the same ordinance off God that in Christian th one proceding off God immediatly and not from our Gauiour Christ as mediatour thother doth likewise But why should wee wrastle further in this poincte with Andrue seing the D. which buildeth of his autoritie in cōfessing that the magistrate is ordeined off God immediatly standeth with vs that he ys not ordeined off our Sauiour Christe in respect that he is mediatour betwene God and vs heruppon followeth that the office off the cyuill magistrate is properly one off those means which serueth the Lordes prouidence in the preseruation off man kind Now yf the cyuill magistrate should be the head off the church he must be an vnder and subordinat head off Christ Consydering that the lorde hath committed the gouernement off the church vnto our Sauiour Christe and that otherwise there should be two heades off yt wheroff one were not vnder another which is absurd But he is not an vnder and subordinate head off Christe consydering that his autoritie cometh from God symply and immediatly euen as our Sauiour Christes and therfore not the head off the church To this disputation perteineth that which the D. els where in synuateth off the Magistrate comprised albeit not expressed in the 12. 1. Corinth vnder the word gouernementes but in an other treatise more plainly in the fyrst place to hale in the Archbishop in the second to thrust out the elders which notwithstanding is easely refuted by the same place for if the cyuill magistrate shoulde be comprehēded vnder that worde off gouernement and be one off the officers off the church there mencioned yt should followe that he should be an vnder officer not onely to the Apostles but also to Prophetes and Doctors For S. Paule putteth thes as the principallest mynisteries in the church as the degres off first second and third declare But I thincke the D. will not make him vnder officer to all thes therfore he is not cōprehended vnder that diuision but is of an other sorte off officers Secondly yt should follow that Christian magistrates were in that tyme yt being graunted that the offices there reckned were already in the church But the D. saith that there were then no Christian magistrates yt foloweth therfore by his owne wordes that the magistrate could nether be expressed nor conteined in those wordes yf yt be said that althowgh the D. say there were none yet I and the trwth yt selfe saie otherwise I answer that all the gyftes and offices there reckned were not onely then but were then most plentifull Considering therfore that the Christian magistrate was then a gifte more rare then at other times after yt can not be that he is comprehended vnder that wordes Vppon all which yt falleth that the Magistrate is head off the church as Andreas saith in respect off that he exerciseth the sword Likewise it goeth to ground which the D. putteth that by the same reason the magistrate is head off the commē wealth next vnder God he may be also head off the church Which is a grosse peticion of the principle being nothing but the contrarie off that I set downe That owte off Chrysostome that certeine weomen were head off the churche off Philippos will not serue considering that he speaketh not off any cheifdome in powre or autoritie but off excellencie in godlines and zeale And the greek word he vseth signifying also a summe nedeth not to be taken in signification off head but that Chrysost meaninge was that in those weomē there was as it were a summe off the church in whose godly vertues a man might beholde the estate off the whole Nay yt can not but with great violence there signifie a head for then he should haue said they were heades of the church and not head And if it shoulde yet yt muste be vnderstanded that head there is to say the cheife off the weomen off that church which is nothing to purpose for I am sure yt was not Chrysost minde to preferre them to the Bishopes c. The cauill also that the magistrate being but a member off the church is not therby barred from being head is vnworthy answer seing yt is manifest off what members I spake and the Bishop off Salsbury speaketh euen in the same wordes Yf yt be said that the magistrates honour ys touched here I answer that then the Angels them selues are dishonoured which hauing gouernement of kingdomes and nations add also of the churches which they serue haue not nor owght as I haue shewed to haue the title off head off the churche Nay those which goe abowte to gratifie Princes with the spoile off our Sauiour Christe are found dishonorers of them as those which leaue thē no place in the church of Christe for if the magistrate be head of the church of Christe which is within his domyniō thē he is none of yt For all that church maketh the bodie of Christe and euery one of the church fulfilleth the place of one member of the body So that he that is not of the body can haue no place in the church yf yt be further said that he hath iniury considering that he bringeth such singular comforte and profit vnto the church establishing the purenes off religion ouerthrowing the corruptions repressing sinne crowning vertue beside the weight of glory which attendeth for good Princes in the life to come and that they are honoured with most honorable names which owght more then contente the moste excellent seruantes off God which are but symple creatures yt muste be also considered that as the godly magistrate being head of the common wealth bringeth singular commoditie vnto the church so doo the godly pastors which be the church
off that description he declared his care ouer his church and not â—â— making an end off it he signifieth that he declared lesse care For if to describe the three offices of gouernemeÌ„t Bishop Deacon and Elder were an argument off his loue and care towardes his church had not also the adding to off the fourth yf any were bene a token off the same But if as the Ans would make vs belieue the Lord declared his great care and loue more towardes his church in leauing that office at her arbitrement then yt should also follow that in appointing no more but the Deacon and Elder which gouerneth onely yea in appointing no officer at all he should haue shewed him self more carefull and louing Which if yt be absurd that he saith wherof this followeth is not to be admitted Againe wheras he graunteth that our Sauiour Christ hath gone throwgh with the doctrine I would ask off him why in that point he hath made so cleane worck Whatsoeuer he answer here and what cawses soeuer he assigne he can not deny but one cawse is the blindnes of men to see and their peruersnes of iudgement in thinges perteining to the kingdom off heauen Which if it be true then I would gladly know off him how they come to be so egleeyed in the matter off discipline and gouernemeÌ„t which are such bussardes in the sight off the doctrine and how their eyes be opened here which were shut there As if we were in lesse perill off error in inuenting the Discipline off the church then we should haue bene in deuising the doctrine or as thowgh it were an easier matter to finde a rule wherby the whole church ioyntly then wherby euery one in his seuerall might be directed And if part of this gouernemeÌ„t and order being propounded part also is left owt why rather were not the greater offices and off more weight expressed leauing the smaller to the stamp off mans head for who knoweth not but it is harder to institute a ministerie for the gouernement off a whole prouince then for a companie coÌ„prised within the territoire of a furlong to institute a ministerie for gouernment and commandement of both people and Bishops too then for the people onely So that off the twoo vertues required in all sufficient dispensation faithfulnes and wisdome and which were both most fully in our S. Christ by the Ans account there was nether For in that he is made to haue described some part off the gouernement and not all he is argued of vnfaithfulnes in that he is made to haue propounded the les and easier leauing owt greater and more difficult his wisdome is reproched Nether may the D. thinck here to escape with the distinction off externall thinges variable by circumstances which els where he alledgeth For first I haue shewed that yt is most vntrue that all externall thinges be variable TheÌ„ he must remeÌ„ber that he making his Archbishops office to begin in the Apostles tymes hath drawen owt his continuance vnto this tyme all which he hath as he yet doth accounted off him as a head piller of the church off god Now if he be such a profitable officer both in the purest tyme off the church and the corrupt both in persequution and peace vnder a Christian Magistrate and vnder a TyraÌ„t yt is cleare that this ys an office not variable by circumstance off times but which our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles might haue aswell established in perpetuitie as he did any off those vnchangeable ministeries Bishops Deacons c. In calling yt a seruile tie to haue the whole gouernement at the prescript off Gods word he forgetteth that the greatest libertie and freedom off Christians is to serue the Lord according to his reuealed will and in all thinges to hang vppon his mouth But that he addeth yt ys to be tied vnto the lettre as in the law fyrst is Papisticall and Anabaptisticall proceeding from a grosse ouersight and want of vnderstanding off the Apostles meaning wheÌ„ he speaketh of the lettre of the law For wheras the Apostle setteth agaynst the lettre of the law that is to say the bare coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t doo this c. the worcking off the spirit gyuen by promesse wherby the law in part is obteined off vs and made healthfull which otherwise bringeth death the Answ with the Papistes and Anabaptistes opposeth the lettre vnto that not writteÌ„ nor commaunded in scripture When in that sense which he taketh lettre if there were any such we are as streightly and precisely bound vnto the lettre as euer were the Iewes The examples brought as exceptions against the certein and commaunded mynisterie are such for the most part as might seem to haue bene brought to set the D. cawse in the mockerie and lawghter of all men For yt is well knowen that the name off a Scribe was no name off any certein order and particular kinde off ministerie but a generall name gyuen vnto the skilfull in the law of god For although we read of some to whom yt ys gyuen which beside the ordinary function wrote something yet yt may be easely shewed that they had that name not off writing but rather becawse they were expert in the law off God written Which as yt may be proued by diuers autorities off the scripture so yt doth by the autoritie off our Sauiour Christ manifestly appeare And when our Sauiour speaking off the tymes of the gospell saith he will send Scribes and yet neuer heard tell off that there was any certein order or particular function off Scribes vnder the gospell yt ys cleare that vnder title off Scribe there was neuer vnderstanded any seuerall degree off ministerie The same is to be aswered vnto the name of Doctor of law that yt was a generall name where with they were named which were learned or taken for learned in the law of god Which may appeare for that whom S. Math. calleth a a lawier or Doctor of the law S. Marck calleth a Scribe To change the Capitain off the Temple into an Ecclesiasticall officer needeth a very strong exorcisme The Temple of Ierusalem being the strongest place in the whole citie and by reason off the height commaunding the whole cytie round about was by all likelihood taken of the Romans to be their fort or Cytadell Considering that Herod had also builded a fort there called Antonia where they placing their garrisons did the easelier and with greater securitie holde the Iewes in that bondage which they sought at euery occasion to shake off Herunto leade the prophane mindes of the Romans which beside the safetie they sowght that waies tooke pleasure also in prophaning the temple off the Lord ad also the practise off our daies which may serue for confirmacion herof But howsoeuer the matter be this appeareth plainly that that office was not ecclesiasticall but both a cyuill and warlike function For when S. Iohn beside the seruantes off the Scribes
and high priestes maketh mention off a band off men yt may appeare that as the seruantes and ministers belonged vnto the high Priestes and Scribes so the band belonged vnto those Capitaines off the temple and that they were there as those which had the charge off the band The same may yet appeare further by that where he laying hould off certein off the Apostles put them in prison after they came owt they confirmed them selues against their threates by that the fame thing was happened vnto them which was propheceyed of by Dauid and wheroff our Sauiour had experience in that both Iewes and Gentils and both powers cyuill and ecclesiasticall rose vp against him Wherby it is cleare they had regard to the owtrage which they suffred both off the Priestes and Scribes Iewes and of the Capitain off the temple a Gentill As for the cheif of the Sinagoge they are the same which be called Elders and Ancients off the church in reformed churches wheroff in euery Synagoge and assemblie off the Iewes there was some nombre as shall in place appeare called cheif not for that they had ouer the mynisters but becawse they had the gouernement off the people Whether the Seniors off the people were before the restoring off the captiuitie of Babylon shall appeare in place not to be much materiall Yt is a certein reason which is drawen from the figures to the thinges figured in this sort for if they were not like vnto them they shadow forth they should be no figures I apply not particularly the partes of the Arck to the partes of the church but compare generally the building off the one with the other Which point also S. Stephen and the Apostle to the Hebrues doo likewise presse Therfore thalledging off Caluin against thapplication off euery part thereof vnto the church is ydle The exceptions are to small pourpose For when I ask vvhat I deny not but some thinges might haue bene left for if he had would he might haue knowen that as the Lord aduanced his glory towardes his church and approched vnto men by knowledge of him selff so he did more precisely and particularly set forth all thinges perteining to the church and gouernement therof and that therfore vnder the gospell wherin he hath opened the threasures of knowledge yt must follow that he left thinges more cleare and certein then before Yet I will towch the vanitie off his exceptions For pinnes and nailes I would ask him how he can make a cofer without them especially for the water And therfore if he had prepared bordes c. and not set them together I thinck he had not obeied the voice of god and it is asmuch as if he should say that he was not bidden to take a nedle into his hande which is bidden to sew Whether the windowes were off glasse or Christall made not to pourpose so that they gaue a cleare light which the word Moses vseth signified it was enough Howsoeuer yow were misled by certein expositours the couer mentioned Gen. 8. is cmmaunded in the making off the Ark where the Lord also prescribeth yt should be a cubit aboue the Ark very fit to shut the waters that they should not fall continually vpon the Ark. The ouerseer and maister off this work coulde be no other then Noa at whose prescript yt was to be doon and which was to answer if any thing had bene doon otherwise then the commaundement The Rauen and doue sent forth were not thinges belonging to the building off the Ark and yet as meat and drink they are commaunded him forsomuch as they perteined to preseruation off his life which the Lord had gyuen him in charge That out of Pellicane and againe and againe out off Caluin are such as graunted conclude not against this cawse That the learned writers say God charged the Iewes with ceremonies of his owne that they should haue no leysure to vse any other they neuer vse it to proue that there is more libertie to the churche now then in times past to deuise any thing but it is their buckler which they hold owt against the Papistes who by example of that church would lode this now with such a multitude off ceremonies Therfore hē doth not in this allegorie follow their autoritie but rather clean contrary walketh herin in the Papistes steppes Which where they are pressed by this so diligent prescript off all thinges by the word of God in the ould people answere as the D. that that was doon for the rudenes off that people and because they were but children and that it were iniurie to the church off Christ to shut her vp so short as that was Where he cōcludeth of them that there was onely expressed what should be doon in the worship off God and not in externall policie first there be no such wordes wheruppon he may pull in that and not in the external policie And in deed it is not to distinguish but to pull in peeces for what whorship off God can there be in the assemblies of Christiā mē withowt the ministerie of the word withowt externall policie withowt administration of Sacramentes without praying openly and with owtward sound all vvhich are externall When Caluin calleth yt spirituall worship his meaning is nothingles then to oppose spirituall to all externall doon vvith mouth and other partee of the body but he calleth it spirituall by comparison off the worship of God vnder the law which consisted in corporall washinges cleansinges apparell c. and this is that which ether abuseth him or wherwith he would abuse other And although no singular partes off the Tabernacle or Temple themselues should set forth vnto vs the externall policie of the churches yet whē not onely they be described but yt is prescribed how many kinde of officers there should be and what euery one should doo that might suffise to proue that if he will needes separate the worship off God from thexternall policie yet as the Lord set forth the one so he left nothing vndescribed in the other Towching the alteration made by Salomon and Dauid in sorting the Ministers off the Temple and other thinges an other of the Papistes reasons to proue that they may ordein thinges beside the prescript off the word yt is answered in the same chap. the Ans alledgeth where yt is saied that all that was doon by commaundement of god And in an other place is set forth that those were instituted by commaundement of Dauid which had commaundement off God browght by the handes off Gad the seer and of Nathan the Prophet But seing the Ans vvill not accord vvith me in this point of appointing thinges vnder the law let him at least beare him self speak in his former booke God in the ould law prescribed vnto his people perfect and absolute lawes not onely morall and iudiciall but ceremoniall nether was there the least thing to be doon in the church omitted in the law Let him shew
how this vvill agree vvith that here in the tenth and 13. diuis I haue shewed that it is one thing to be conteined an other to be expressed in scripture Therfore if yowr cawse haue no better hould then that it must goe to the ground I haue shewed how this answer of leauing thinges to the order off the church varied by circumstance c. can not stand in the Archbishops case nor ordinary gouernement of the church The argument is not off lykes or payres but of the smaller vnto the great And although it should be true that yow say that the Lord loued the church then aswell as he doth now yet the reason is still of the les vnto the great For yf he did so particularly describe the offices not of such excellencie and vveight as the offices and mynisteries of the gospell yt must follow that he hath much more vsed that dyligence in particular description of the mynisteries hereof If the 4. off Iohn meane that our Sauiour should tell all thinges necessary to saluation then the Mynisterie vvith the degrees theroff being necessary and vvithowt the vvhich the Lord doth not ordinarily gyue any saluacion at all yt is cleare that he hath also declared all degrees thereoff That owt off Sainct Iohn 20. is spoken of the miracles our Sauiour did not off his doctrine and is thrust in by strong handes in this place The cheif amongest the rest off the Mynisters I might well with S. Paul call the pillers and therfore if the Lord should haue made no mention off the Archbishops they keping suche a place as they doo yt is truly saide that the pillers should haue bene forgotten Yf the Magistrate were an officer of the church and not of the commen wealth there are many places in scripture both ould and new that describe his office ād all that perteineth to him at large Wherof if the Ans can bring but one for his Archbishop this controuersie is at an end Here be many we knowes wherof some are not indebate and those vvhich be haue no causes annexed vvith them vvherby other might come to knowledge off them as vvell as he Yt is therfore enough to haue mentioned mine answer vvithout staying in confutation of all those thinges vvhich he at all aduentures throweth owt to make vp an answer He saith it is daungerous to say that the ministeries owght not to be reteined withowt which the church is fully builded becawse the Magistrate is therby shut forth as well as the Archbishop Our questiō is what ecclesiasticall ministeries are sufficient the mention therfore off the ciuil Magistrate is absurd Also it is too great ether ouersight or peruersenes not to vnderstand that an vniuersall rule is not to be racked to euery thing but is true off those thinges vvheroff it is gyuen Beside that hereby at vnawares he confesseth that the church may be fully builded and accomplished withowt a Christian Magistrate which is against that he saith the magistrate is the head of the church His exception that there is no perfection off vnitie off the church by reason off good and bad mingled first is nothing to this question secondly yt is a quarell not against me but S Paul vvhose wordes I vsed Thirdly as the ministeries off the vvord are saide to saue and bring vs to the kingdome off heauen becawse they gyue both entrance and aduancement therunto although vve come not to full possession off them so long as we being in this life need them still so they are vvell saied to bring vs to perfectiō of vnitie because hauing begun to knit vs together here they follow still vvith new increases vntill vve come to perfection in the life to come As for that there must be offices as well to preserue and kepe the perfection off vnitie as to build yt and bring it therunto beside that for shift off answer he is driuen as yt were with one breath to affirme that he denied before off the perfection of vnitie he must vnderstand that the church is alwaies in building as long at it is here vpon earth and alwaies in knitting Therfore if those offices be sufficent to build and knit they are perfectly sufficient and if tharchbishops office be to kepe the church builded and knit yt is manifest vve may spare him here and that his seruice must then begin when all other ministries take end The next diuis hath for answer according to the D. coustome onely that which I preuēting answered afterwad sauing that he addeth as an exceptiō that there be Apostles which there reckened are notwithstanding by vs shut owt from the present estate off this church as yf he vnderstood not that in the founding of the church thes may be necessarie which afterward are not which also being intreated off in an other place needeth not here to be repeated Yt is Calu. which reasoneth of the place of the Ephesiās that forsomuch as the Apostle saith that the church is fully builded withowt a Pope therfore there owght to be no Pope and how slenderly soeuer he seemeth to the Ans to haue reasoned yet shall yt appeare by the vanitie of his exceptiōs against it cōming afterward to be discussed that yt is weighty But where he saith albeit the argumēt be good against the Pope yet yt ys not so against the archbishop onles he can exempt hym by miracle or teach vs some other Logick then hath hitherto bene heard off the reason includeth him as well as the Pope For if it be graunted that the Popes office is therfore vnprofitable to the church becawse S. Paul made no mention off it in the ministeries requisite for the building theroff there being like wise no mention off the office off an Archbishop yt must theruppon follow that tharchbishop also is vnprofitable yf there be the same cawse there must follow the same effect The reason added off the Pope doing thinges which tharchbishop doth not claiming thinges which tharchbishop claimeth not c. hath no place at all for the question is not off the abuse and tyrannie off the Pope but whether as it is vnprofitable that one should gouerne all the churches in the world so yt be also that he should gouerne all in a whole prouince And by the D. answer the office off Pastors should be vnlawfull if they chalenge vnto them selues thinges vnlawfull and the Popes office good and lawfull if he bearing rule ouer all churches would absteine from those and such like chalenges which the Ans setteth downe The contrary wheroff is true For as the Pastors office can by no owtrage of him that exerciseth it be made vnlawfull so the vsage of dominion off one ouer all be yt neuer so moderate and qualified can neuer be lawfull Last of all the Archbishop him self if he should chalenge those thinges in his prouince which the Pope chalengeth ouer the world should be by this reason as vnlawfull an officer as the Pope
Therfore this difference betwene the Archbishop and Pope being accidentall and not towching the nature off the gouernement wheroff we haue to enquire is vnstilfully alledged Yet it is the hole wheruÌ„to the Ans is coÌ„pelled diuers times to haue his recourse That the ministerie is a matter of saluacioÌ„ that tharchbishop is a new ministerie that it is absurd here to flie to thexample off the Magistrate where the questioÌ„ is what Ecclesiasticall offices are profitable is before declared The Ans conclusion off my replie touching the place to the Ephes is euill shut vp For where he saith that tharchbishoprick may stand becawse that place reckening vp onely the ministeries of the word that is a ministerie off order and policie how could he forget that tharchbishop medleth with the ministerie of the word and therfore it was necessarie to be here mentioned if the Apostle had gyuen hym any place in the church If he will say that he hath not onely the mynisterie off the word but off order also the answer is at hand that so had both the Apostles by his owne confession and all the rest off those ministeries as appeareth afterward Whether therfore tharchbishop be considered in his ministerie of the word or as together with that he holdeth the raignes off gouernement or as one of the most principall ministeries of the church ether he hath his place here to the Ephes or not aâ— all For both all ministeries off the word to speak as the D. separate from gouernement and order and all occupied in the word and gouernement ioyntly and all principall ministeries of off the church are here reckened vp Euery one then off thes three cawses being sufficient to haue made mention of tharchbishop all together put a necessitie vpon the Apostle to speake off him if he had bene worth the speaking off Where he thincketh there was no cause to speake off him for that he differeth not from a bishop in ministerie off the word but in order and gouernement onely and that therfore yt is no diuers ministerie from the bishops office by the same reason I may say that S. Paul needed not to haue mentioned Pastors c. For the Pastors preached the word as the Apostles But yf this one difference alhough there were no moe make the ministerie of Apostles and pastors diuers that th one hath charge off one onely church thother off aâ—ryâ— must follow that the ministerie off an archbishop is diuers from the bishops th one watching ouer a whole prouince thother ouer a diocese onely Yea it is plaine off that spoken before off the Archbishops new ministerie that there are as many or moe thinges wherby he differeth from a bishop then any of thes ministeries S. Paul reckeneth vp differ one from an other His answer to the place off the Corinth consisteth in that he would proue that the diuision off offices there is perfect Wherin it it easie to see what extremitie my reply which he calleth a vaine shift draue him vnto and how he could not couer his nakednes here but with discouering an other place as vnsemely as this For amongest his answers to the place off the Ephes wherby he would proue that that diuision is not perfect this was one in the latin pamphlet that to the Corinth S. Paul speaketh off Apostles Prophetes and Doctors leauing owt Euangelistes and Pastors and now to auoide my replie to that answer he saith cleane contrarie that the Apostle made there a perfect diuisioÌ„ of offices But let vs see whether this chauÌ„ge be for the better Where he saith Saint Paul did more perfectly deuide to the Corinth then to the Ephes he is deceiued For euen by his owne confession he speaking there of preaching offices onely not off all offices off the church and there being none other preaching offices but those which he reckeneth vp yt followeth that he made there a perfect diuision In the place to the Corinth that there is no perfect diuision although the D. wordes he chaunged yet his reason he vsed standeth still that the Euangelist is not there mentioned nor Pastor which were offices in the church Beside that he kepeth in this refutatioÌ„ his ould wont which is to cut the knot and not to lose yt For he bringeth reasons of his to proue the perfectioÌ„ of the diuision withowt answering mine And yet his be such as are vnwothy answer For in the first beside that yt is vntrue that the Apostle made a perfect diuision of giftes in the church if he had yet it followeth not that he made the same in offices especially wheÌ„ he wil needs separate offices from giftes The second reason therfore yt is a perfect diuision because there is added first second third is as simple as the first for those wordes are not put there to note the noÌ„bre of offices but to declare which is highest in degree and which next c. aÌ„d if they did yet I neuer could yet read that they were notes off a perfect diuision His third because yt hath moe members then that in the Ephesâ— I think he vnderstandeth by this tyme what strenght yt hath if he remember that which I answered that the Apostles meaning to the Eph. was not to deuide the offices of the church in generall but those onely which handle the word onles par aduenture he thinck that he maketh a fuller partition which deuideth both the handes into eight fingers then which denideth one into fiue Martyrs autoritie doth not help him For he saith not that he reckeneth all the partes of the church particularly or how many it hath which he should haue saide to help him but onely that he reckeneth vp what members the church hath which he doth that reherseth some Whether a bishop be conteined vnder a Pastor or rather a Pastor vnder a bishop shall not now be the question But yow are inconstant in all yowr waies and haue one senteÌ„ce standing an other sitting For albeit I should agree with yow that a bishop is a Pastor yet yow doo not agree with yowr self For otherwere in stretching owt the Bishops armes yow haue thes wordes a bishop is both superior in office and giftes vnto a Pastor If he be so he can not be conteined vnder him for that vvhich conteineth an other thing hath at the least all in it self which the conteined hath Againe if I graunt a bishop conteined vnder the Pastor S. Paul speaketh of yet I will not graunt that the bishop yow meane which hauing so many churches to rule hath neuer a one where he doth the office off a bishop is conteined vnder S. Paules Pastor For seing his foundacion is laied in Ieromes bishop proued before and after not to be of the institutioÌ„ of God but off man yt can not be that our kinde of bishop shoulde be comprehended vnder S. Paules Pastor Wheruppon also followeth that tharchbishop which hath a necessarie relation to that kinde off bishop and can not
stand withowt him is not by any meanes conteined vnder S. Paules Pastor The proofes of yowr diuision of bishops into archbishops and those called by the commen name of bishops are as doubtfull as that wherfore they are brought To proue that the office off an Archbishop was in S. Paules tyme although the name were not is brought the word Consubstantiall ▪ which being the commen hooke off the Papistes to pull in their vnwrittē verities owght to serue the reader for a watch word that tharbishops office needing this phisick is sick off the same disease And for the word it self although it be lawful ād very conuenient and the councell off Syrme did not well in yealding vnto the Arrians to the displacing of it yet yt is not necessarie as withowt which the doctrine off the truth off the diuinitie off our Sauiour Christ can not be mainteined For to say so were to accuse the holy writers S. Iohn especially which debating that cawse against the heretickes of his time Cerinthus Ebion c. did neuer vse it But what is this vnto the Archbishop let vs haue but one testimonie owt off the word off God off the office off an Archbishop for the infinite testimonies off the diuinitie of the sonne of God and then this example may help yow And although the word Consubstantiall were not in S. Paules tyme Yet wordes off the same weight were If yow can shew therfore wordes of the same valew with Archbishop although yow shew not this yt shall be sufficiēt if yow can not then this example maketh against yow Here also is further to be obserued that this answer off the D. off the office of the archbishop being in the Apostles time although the name was not is the armour vvherewith the Popes title of vniuersall bishop is mainteined For this is Hardinges answer to the bishop that although the name of vniuersall bishop was not at the first gyuen to the Pope yet the autoritie was After he flieth to his ould refuge of the Prince and there seeketh couer for the Archbishop asking whether he shall haue no autoritie in the church becawse he was not in S. Paules tyme. Although S. Paul had saied that our Sauiour Christ had gyuen princes vnto his church immediatly after his ascension as he beareth vs in hand he gaue archbishops ether they must haue had autoritie then or neuer after So keeping yowr similitude if our Sauiour gaue Archbishops when he ascended and in S. Paules time ether they must haue had their autoritie then or neuer after And the case is nothing like for if there were no Christian Princes in the Apostles times they being needfull for preseruation off the churches the cawse was that it was not in the Apostles power to ordein Christian Princes But it was in their power to haue prouided the churches off Archbishops if they had bene needfull and therfore they had bene inexcusable for not appointing them seruing so greatly to the building off the church as we are borne in hand Moreouer the comparison is most vnfitly made seing the cyuill magistrate is a perpetuall office for all times persones places wheras by his owne confession the Archbisop is temporall and arbitrarie Where also he asketh whether the ciuill Magistrate shall not haue the cheif autoritie in gouerning the church because there ys no expresse mention off him in thes two places I answer that the Princes autoritie is established in other places so that it may florish withowt thes But the Archbishoprick seing yt ys an ecclesiasticall function ether must be planted by one off thes places or die in the church considering that there is no ecclesiasticall function which is not here set forth Yowr collection off my wordes is euill bound together for how cleaue thes Some offices instituted off God endured for a time therfore men may deuise new offices Where lieth the strenght of yowr argument Whether in this that becawse God instituted offices for a time therfore man may or in this that God did abrogate certein offices therfore man may institute Which soeuer yow say as yow must needes say one the absurditie is apparant for in both the comparison is made between the autoritie off God and thautoritie off man Betwene whom how great distance there is so great difference is there between yowr argument and a iust conclusion The cleane contrarie is gathered rather For as we reason against the Papistes that God did not abrogate his owne ceremonies that men should thrust in others considering that if he would haue had ceremonies he would haue taken off his owne so yt may be saied that God did not cut off his owne ministeries to make place for others and that if moe ministeries off preaching and gouerning iointly had bene necessarie beside Doctors and Pastors he would rather haue kept his owne then takē those vvhich men deuise Here all shiftes and coulors failing him and not being once able to lift at this reason he hath chaunged my argument For where I had saied yt forth in a plaine hypotheticall Syllogisme he hath altered yt But I will offer yt him againe yf vnder Saint Paules Pastor tharchbishop be comprehended then he is necessarie and commaunded by the vvord off God but yow say he is comprehended therfore he is commaunded and necessarie Which if it be true then yow are fallen from yowr distinction of thinges necessarie to saluacion and not necessarie off thinges arbitrarie and commaunded by the word off god But let vs see now yow haue prepared the argument after yowr owne fashion and as yow thowght yow could weld yt how yow deale with yt Yow say first this proposition Pastors are necessarie at all times is particular verily the masters by whom this should be iudged neuer tawght that an indefinite proposition in a necessarie matter is particular But because yow like not the forme which I vsed yow shall haue it after yowr owne in this sort All S. Paules Pastors are necessarie the Archbishop as yow say is one off S. Paules Pastors therfore he is necessarie Here if yow denie the first proposition yow haue the whole councell and Senate almost of learned men against yow affirming that those two Pastor ād Doctor are amōgest the rest perpetuall offices And if to be a perpetuall office be verified off the Pastor which S Paul speaketh of then it must be verified off all conteined vnderneath amongest whom yow say the Archbishop is Secondly the Archbishop being made one off the giftes which our Sauiour ascending sent vnto his church if yt were in the power off the church ether to establish or not to establish him yt should be in her power to refuse the giftes off Christ which if it be absurd that also must be wheroff this followeth Thirdly if the Archbishop be necessarie at any time which must needes be if he be comprehended vnder S. Paules Pastor then goeth to the grownd his cōmen refuge that his office may be instituted
their vnder bishops The next diuision I will not answer The next vnto that I report me to the reader whether I haue faithfully and allmost seruilely bound my self vnto his wordes in translating thes peeces of his latin pāphlet For the next also I hauing shewed that yow placing the Apostles function in preaching and ministring the Sacramentes not in gouernement and assigning to tharchbishop both Administratiō off the word and Sacramentes and order and discipline must needes lay greater weight vpon tharchbishop then vpon the Apostles yf yow now reuoke yt I am glad Howbeit ashamed to speake it in so many wordes euen yet the course off this treatise doth breath nothing els This is no answer vnto my reason For if the church withowt the Archbishop and Archdeacon be a bodie consisting of all the partes comely knit together wherin nothing wanteth nor nothing is to much then it followeth that thes offices bring nether ornement nor accomplishement to the church but make onely an vnprofitable knob and lump off flesh to the both disfuguring and hinderance off the growght off the bodie And the ministrie off order and policie of the church being one part off this bodie if it be not whole and complete but need to be peeced owt with archbishops and Archdeacons it must draw with it this absurditie that there being one member vnperfect withowt them the bodie also off Christ is not perfecte And where it ys saied that as in the Apostles times the church was not perfect withowt them and Prophetes c. so it is not now meaning therby as both before and after hath appeared that tharchbishops should supplie the roume off the Apostles I answer that the Argument holdeth not For considering that the perfection off the bodie must be measured by the will off him whose the bodie is that is Christ as when he gaue Apostles Euangelistes c. he made it appeare that he would not haue his bodie perfect withowt them so when he tooke them away from his church he made it knowen that the bodie was perfect withowt thē Yf Apostles and Euangelistes had bene put downe by autoritie of man then yt might haue helped yow that as men put downe Mynisteries so they might supplie them with other But seing they were taken away by the Lord this yowr reason in effect becawse God taketh away therfore men may administeries hath no strenght in it And where all this drift is that yow vvould haue tharchbishops office come in for the Apostles and therfore say that their autoritie ouer the pastors doth and must remaine in such places as there be churches besides my former answer vnto this point yow are againe taken in the wordes off yowr owne lippes For if it must remaine then the office off the archbishop which yow make the vessell to receiue this autoritie in and whose office yow say consisteth in the rule off other pastors is not variable and depending off circūstance off time c. but perpetuall and constant Yf Bucer speake as yow make him I can by no meanes subscribe vnto him For S. Luke saith plainly that there were many bishops at Ephesus and gyueth the name off bishop to many That the name off bishop did properly remaine in one off them ād improperly in thother if it haue so good autoritie as the former I will belieue that too if not I hould me vnto the wordes off S. Luke And if the name off bishop doth vnproperly belong vnto those whom Saint Paul saith the holy gost had appointed bishops ouer the church I confesse that I can not tell what autoritie is sufficient to make that name off bishop proper vnto them And if the name off bishop did not properly belong vnto them all but vnto one onely yt followeth that the name also of an Elder did not properly belong vnto them For the one of them ys as well verified of them as the other and there is no more restreint off the name off bishop then of an Elder vnto any one singular person amongest them And how is this sentence off Bucer here pulled in by the heare for albeit it were concluded that one bishop should beare dominiō ouer the ministers of one churche yet yt followeth not which is here in question that one also owght to rule ouer all bishops in a prouince The rest is answered In deed I denie but yow affirme that there be still Apostles Prophetes c. ād therfore by yowr saying that order which was then owght now also to be continued And although yowr archbishop vvere vnder gownde yet order in ecclesiasticall mynistries remaineth that the teaching Elders should be a degree aboue those vvhich gouerne onely and they aboue the Deacons The marck I shoot at is certein that is to confute yowr distinction off mynisteries off the word and Sacramentes onely and ministeries off gouernement and order and it seemeth I shot so nigh that I haue driuen yow away from the marck For yow wander and tell vs of thinges that haue nether head nor foot and which if they were true make nether whot nor kold vnto this question For if your learned interpreters haue well defined S. Paules rule the Elders vvhich rule are vvorthy c. when they say yt is to serue Christ and his church faithfully in doctrine and integritie off life c then it must suffice yowr Archbishop to doo so and no more For if yow thinck that euery minister in his church is barred by that definition from further gouernement then which consisteth in preaching administring the Sacramentes vncorrupt life c it followeth that he medling with moe then those breaketh the boundes off good gouernement After yow make an other rode owt off the question bearing the reader in hand that I would conclude owt off that place equalitie off ministers when as my pourpose was as I haue shewed to confute yowr vaine distinction Which although yow here denie yet the print off yowr hand is deeper then yow can wipe owt by thes so strong but litle honest denials For onles yow refer this word onely to the secluding off the ministeries mentioned to the Ephesians from the gouernement and policie off the church yowr answer falleth as is before declared Considering that yow labouring to make a difference betwene those mynisteries and the Archbishops make none if they together with administratiō off the word and Sacramentes handle also order and gouernment And although yow had quite left owt the word onely yet thes wordes the Apostle doth recite those ministeries which are occupied in praier the word and Sacramentes not off them which are instituted for order and discipline haue that sense which I haue gyuen them For if he speake off those which minister the word and Sacramentes not off those instituted for gouernement c. yt followeth that he speaketh off those which minister the word and Sacramentes onely As he that saith a man is iustified by faith and not by worckes saith
an archbishop is a newe ministrie is declared Where he saith if no man appoint new offices but he which can gyue giftes to discharge them it should follow that no man might appoint offices if he vnderstand as he owght to doo ecclesiasticall offices it is that I mainteine if he leap ouer here as his coustome is to ciuill I haue shewed that the reason is not like Half this diuis is in the tenth off this chap. where yt hath answer My argument here a man may not ad to the ministeries because he may not take avvay is fyrst off thinges apparantly like as those vvhich are likewise forbidden likewise punished Then it hath this grownd that they being contrary fall into one subiect except one be naturally in it as heat in fire Which I am constreined to speake of because I haue to doo with such a trifler as would snatch at this exception although nothing to prurpose So that as he that hath autoritie to make lawes hath also to abrogate he which may absolue may condemne he that may binde may loose so he that hath power to ad hath also to deminish But marck vvhat the D. answereth The question is vvhether men may ad to the ministeries the meane and argument wherby I proue they can not because it is not lavvfull to deminish now when he answereth that men may ad doth he not gyue that for answer which is the question and take that for his proofe which is to be proued And as for that which followeth the added ministeries may be helpes to ministeries instituted off God yt is likewise in controuersie being as doubtfull as the rest And the Papistes may as well answer thus for the multiplying off their Sacramentes as the D. for encrease off the ministries But forsomuch as thes are yowr commen answers here is nothing new or to be wondred at Vnto the second proposition he saith men may take away offices off God which are temporall that is enduring for a time but not perpetuall Wherin he is greatly abused For nether any man nor all men in the world could haue put downe the temporall ministeries off Apostles Euangelistes c. which the Lord ordeined onles the Lord him self had withdrawen them and therfore they so long remained in the church vntill he by their death withowt raysing vp any seede vnto them by distribution of those giftes wherby those ministeries might be furnished declared that they had an end The Ans in defense of this forged Doctors is like vnto one which to defend him from the kolde couereth him self with a wet sacke For before his ignorance might haue in part excused him now by this maintenance off his answer he hath doubled his folie For first to make him self cleane he defileth as much as he can Maister Caluin and the Bishop off Salisburie both which he nether sheweth to haue vsed this Clement and if they doo yet their vse of him or such like is so farfroÌ„ lessening his fault that is maketh it more appeare For they vse them agaynst the Papistes which for the moste part attributing vnto them as great weight of autoritie as to the scriptures themselues are so set vp Which they doo also therby to driue from them that if they can not be browght from the confidence they haue in such becawse they are false at least they might be browght to mislike them becawse they make against them Likewise when they alledge them they gyue them such an eare marck that all may know them forged But the D. doth vse them against those which hunger for proofes at his handes owt off the worde off God in the matters debated which haue that estimacion that is meet should be had off such filth as that is which could not giue credit vnto this autoritie withowt renouncing the profession off the gospell which we haue in commen And in steed off giuing him his eare marck he putteth a night cap vppon him to hide it with for in steed off alledging off him owt off the epistles where he appeareth with his hornes and clawes plainly he maketh him come owt of Polidore as disguised owt off a straunge contrey and becawse Polidores wordes did not muffle him sufficiently in saying that this was conteined in a litle summarie off Christian religion he that Clement might goe the better vnknowen added in a booke intituled c. which I merueil with what face he citeth Polidore for as if there were no difference between his and Polidorcâ— wordes And he is not coÌ„tent onely to haue alledged the autority but as in a certein and vndoubted victorie he triumpheth and insulteth vpon his aduersarie sarie saying Peter was not Antichrist ergo the name off an Archbishop is not Antichristian In the second place he saith he vsed them not â—â— sure growndeâ— but as probable testimonies off antiquitie of the name Wherin his hand being with the Papistes is against not onely the manifest truth but all those godly writers which reiect those epistles as vpstartes and lately forged vnder a hedge For against them all the D. saith that it is very probable that they haue that antiquitie which they pretend Thirdly he compareth them vvith the Canons attributed vnto the Apostles wheroff albeit diuerse â—â—e falsely fathered yet those creeping in at sundrie times were â—â—â—wâ—â—standing some 100. yeares before this drosse came â—â—to the church Wheruppon also the corruptions in them although they â—aâ—ter the walles off the cytie off God yet they rase not the foundacions off it as this Clement doth nether are they alledged off me as he pretendeth but with atteint off the basenes off their birth And for my alledging off Higinus I refer me to the indgement off the reader what a cognisance I haue gyuen him there to be knowen by His last refuge is that yt is like Polidore ment some other booke not now extant For confutation off which vnshamefast speach to what end should I other alledge the latenes off the time wherin he wrote or vnfoundnes off his iudgmeÌ„t wherby he hauing not made half a turne from Poperie vnto the gospell might by all likelihood think that those were Clementes epistles The weakenes off his owne proofes doo betray him as those that make more against then for him For if he will make difference between a grosse epistle and a litle booke the precise distinction tendeth rather to proue a booke then an Epistle And for the lenght it is manifest considering that Tully calleth such long letters a volume and in two or three epistles drawen owt beyond the ordinary correcteth him self as breaking the bondes off an Epistle The same may be saied both off the matter handled and off the manner off handling Which being nether commen nor familiar if a man will speake as the Latines whom Polidore followeth vse they were fitter for a booke then an Epistle That Clement scarce knowing what difference there is between the nominatiue and accusatiue case yt was
but in respecte off the persons gouerned nor the persons them selues but in respecte of their contentions and alteracion of disposition Then it shall appeare after that the tymes off persequution suche as those were the fittest for that office yf that had bene conuenient This Archbishop saied to be the officer off order confoundeth all order and changeth all an Euangelist into a bishop a bishop into an Archbishop an archbishop into an Apostel an Apostle into an Archbishop which folies are before confuted If S. Iohn were Archbishop or did an Archbishops office in those places where he abode then the other Apostle in their circuites did the like and were likewise Archbishops ouer them and the bishop there so it foloweth that ether there were no Archbishops in the Apostles tymes or if there were any they had nothing to doo their offices being not yet fallen but in the Apostles handes And if the Ans will needes haue S. Iohns antoritie the pose to measure owt the Archbishops autoritie yt muste folow that forasmuch as he had the care and ouersighte of all churches in the world the Archbishop must haue the same For the next section lett the reader iudge whether I haue delte syncerely and whether in saying Anaclete and Anicete are but suspected although he ad not without iuste cawse he leaue to them some credit For the next also of the yeare wherin the Nicene councell was houlden being not to pourpose althowghe I could mainteine the account I folowed I will leaue the Ans in his earnest disputation whose practise is to handle trifles earnestly and earnest thinges triflingly The leape is as great as I haue saied and consequently as dauÌ„gerous to tharchbishops neck For yt falleth still forth that for the space off 300. yeares from the time off the Apostles there is no syllable in any one approued autor off any ether archbishop or Metrapolitane for as for the Canons attributed vnto the Apostles those onely excepted vvhich are to be found in their writinges being as is agreed amongest men off any iudgement gathered off diuers councels in sondry times that which is here alledged off the Ans was by all likelihood drawen owt off the councell off Antioch hauing almost the very vvordes theroff sauing as yt cometh to pas yt being somewhat later is somewhat vvorse The councell of Antioch a good while after that of Nice can not make the fall off tharchbishop les daungerous As for the fable off Archbishops in Englande in Euleutherius tyme yt is before confuted So that if a Metrapolitane were all one with an Archbishop yet he is destitute of the testimonie off the purest and best tymes Where the D. thincketh those wordes off the councell off Nice Let the auncient custome be kepte will saue his necke and his body from harme he is deceiued For this word auncient being in nomber off those which haue relation and depend of others signifieth a greater or smaller time according to the thinges vvherwith it is coÌ„pared or hath relatioÌ„ vnto so that that maie be and often is called auncient which is but of very fewe yeares and vvhich other sometime can not be so called withowt a greater nomber The bishops therfore comparing that decree with other made at that tyme and not before called that an auncient custome And yt can be no straunge kinde off speach for the ministers being assembled together to speake off a matter continued a score off prouinciall Synodes and houlden in the space off 10. yeares after this sorte In suche and such thinges vvee vvill kepe our old coustome And that yt could not be long before the councell off Nice beside no testimony to the contrary â–ª Aeneas Syâ—uius gyueth this for vs before the Nicene councell euery bishop lyued vnto him self and smale regard vvas had to the bishops of home But admit yt had bene so before the councell off Nice 20. yea 30. yeares yet by yowr owne counte there is no mention off him all that time which I haue affirmed which is 300. yeares after our Sauiour Christes ascension Now therfore that the auncientie off the Metrapolitane appeareth not by this councell to be other then I alledged Let vs see what credite yt owghte to haue to proue that this decree off theirs was good For therunto the D. regardeth when he saith the notable and famous councell off Nice muste be off all wise and learned men nexte vnto the scriptures reuerenced c. It is sure that hauing regard to the decision off the different touching the perfect vnitie off substance of our Sauiour Christ with God the Father it giuing sentence vppon the vnfallible word off God is worthy to be reuerenced But if the D. will haue their soundnes in that poincte autorise the rest and that our reuerence to yt should close vp our mouthes from demaunding from whence the other canons come what ground they haue yt is that which we can by no meanes consent vnto And that yt may appeare how iustly we call this canon off the councell vnto the towch stone of the word off God let it be considered what is ordeined off them in the 12. and 23. Canons after Ruffin where they prescribe seuen yeares vnto one fallen in to Idolatrie all which tyme althowgh very repentante they forbid him the supper off the lord where also yt kepeth owte one which coming from the warr retourneth thether againe by the space off thirtene years c. which seueritie to let pas the rest as yt is againste the rule of S. Paule so yt could not but put a halter in the deuiles hand to snare a noÌ„ber of soules with all what corruption there was further at that time ether by ignorance or ambition may appeare by that if one Paphenutius had not beene they had all concluded against the honorable societie off bishops elders and Deacons vvith their lawfull wiues Yf the Ans say thes errors were but the errors off those bishops onely but the canon off a Metrapolitane hath beside their allowance the approbation off the former times also so that althowgh their single autoritie be not hable to waie yt downe yet helped vvith the auncient coustome before yt will carie yt away I answer that in the same councell appeareth that to those chosen vnto the ministrie vnmaried yt was not lawfull to take any wife afterwardes onely being maried before entrance into the mynistrie it was lawfull for them to vse the benefite of that mariadge And Paphenutius sheweth that not onely this was before that councell but was an auncieÌ„t tradition of the churche vvhich both him selfe and the reste off the councell rested in what soeuer credit therfore in any respecte cometh vnto the Metrapolitane by this sixt canoÌ„ the same in euery point cometh to this so great a corruptioÌ„ that nether single ministers might mary nor those which entred maried might after death of their wiues mary againe Yf the fame of the councell can not wipe
As thowgh if the matter had bene committed to S. Paul onely it should not haue bene with the same bond off keping him to the word yet yt was not so committed as I haue alledged And if he think more succour for him in the wordes he vsed the archbishop must determin according to the rule of the church it is certein also that the companie of Apostles and Elders in Ierusalem and what companie soeuer meeteth together abowt the ending of such matters is subiect vnto all lawful and commendable orders off the churche prouided for the more orderly proceding in that behalf So that there being nothing here alledged by the D. which agreeth not vnto the Apostles and Angels themselues the excessiue autoritie off tharchbishop doth still appeare in that he alone endeth controuersies which in the Apostolike church was not committed but vnto many For as for that in the next diuis he compoundeth not controuersies by him self alone onles he meane that he hath his seruantes the Chaunceler and Archdeacon or some other off his owne châ—â—sâ— â–ª the booke set owt by tharchbishop of late doth declare the coÌ„trary and the experience off his visitacions and deposing off ministers doth openly conuince him of vntruth If he say he is not alone he hath them following him he must vnderstaÌ„d that becawse ether the archbishop carieth their voices vnder his girdell or yf they vse the freedome which is meet yet the approbacion dependeth vpon the archbishops beck he can no more account them to be diuers then a maÌ„ and his shadow following him And where in his former booke he saith the cheif office off an archbishop is to compound contentions schismes c. here being put to his shift he changeth his speach saying it is his principall office to prouide that contentions c. be cut of Where he addeth or els with the Princes consent he setteth an order in a prouinciall Synode If there be any Synode ether to take the iudgement owt off his hand or controll the sentence gyuen by him it is like to be sore against his will. So that the remedy off this mischief dependeth onely vpon the Cyuill power which if ether yt be ennemy to religion or entangled with the present heresie as hath and may herafter come to passe the churche being withowt remedy must languish and pyne away He saith this example of the matter caried to Ierusalem proueth that euery parish within yt self hath no absolute autoritie to end controuersies but it behoueth to resort vnto the cheif church the contrary wherof appeareth For in that they both debated the cawse amongest them selues and when they coulde not agree decreed to send yt to Ierusalem yt ys sufficiently declared that they had autoritie to end it amongeste them and that yt was not wrunge from them by necessitie off law or pretence off higher autoritie but voluntarily sent vp to Ierusalem Althowgh for this place in hand yt ys sufficient that the deciding off controuersies hung not vppon the mouth off one man were he neuer so sufficient but were referred vnto thassemblies of the Auncients and ministers of the word As for his olde shiftes of the weaknes of negatiue argumentes of autoritie and of examples of the scripture and thapostolike church their folie is opened before Here he taketh on against my vnskilfulnes in the scriptures which referred that vnto ministers which is spoken off all the church Howbeit if he had coÌ„ferred the text he should haue found that thapostle speaketh of the Prophe thes and not of the whole church For he biddeth that tvvo or three of the Prophetes should speake and the other that is to say Prophetes should gyue iudgement Which appeareth by the reasoÌ„ added the sprite off the Prophetes is subiect to the Prophetes Therfore the D. corrupteth the place and the argument to proue that not one minster but many owght to determin of doutfull causes is vntowched Where I pressed him with this that vnitie is fully mainteined by the ministeries vvhich God hath ordeined â–ª he asketh how oft I will alledge it Yf it be a fault in me to alledge one place often vpon diuers occasions what is it in him to alledge one thing so continually vppon the same occasion If he would haue opened his eyes he should haue seen that I vsed an argument proper to this place and not vsed before For where he pretendeth the archbishop was ordeined to kepe vnitie I shew that withowt him vnitie is perfectly kept wherunto he answereth nothing but as before But I will serue his tast and giue him change For the Apostle a litle before exhorting to vnitie bringeth also this reason one body one spirit one hope one Lord one faith one baptisme one God c. Wherby appeareth that the apostle tooke thes ones to be sufficient to kepe the people off God in vnitie And if to haue an archbishop had bene so necessary the apostle shoulde haue fowly forgotten him self hauing so fit a place to speake of him And as this is aptly opposed against the pretended peace by a Pope so is yt likewise against that surmised to be browght by the archbishop Where I ask vvhat buckler vve may haue to hould ovvt against the Papistes vvhich come vpon vs vvith the name of traditions off the apostles if vve admit that there vvere archbishops ordeined by them vvherof the scripture maketh no mention he answereth there can be no daunger in them so they be not made necessarie to saluacion but such as receiue alteracion Which althowgh it be cleane contrary to that he saide before where he bindeth vs to obseruation of them as I haue shewed yet it shall be sufficient here to let him vnderstand that he hath vtterly barred him self from this answer for that he saith this ministrie of the Archbishop is necessarie yea most necessarie Now if it be most necessarie for preseruacion of vnitie off the church yt is plaine that it is necessarie also for the saluacion of yt For the next diuis I haue shewed how absurdly the D. defendeth this rouing where let the reader iudge what difference there is betwene our archbishop and Ieromes bishop which differed nothing from a commen minister but that he had the ordeining off ministers And here I call once againe vpon him to shew any godly and learned writer which expoundeth this place of Ierome off an archbishop to see if he be any happier in this place then he was before in Cyprians The Bishop off Salisb affirmeth that the very meaning off Ierome is off euery bishop in his dioces and Harding in the end beaten downe with the light off the place is compelled to confesse it The next I leaue to the reader to iudge by that alledged on both sides The D. saith I refuse Ierome in a matter off storie yet I denie no part off his storie wherin he seemeth to haue lost all commensense For who in
whom there is any light off iudgement would say it is matter off storie vvhether the appointing off one in euery church ouer the rest is remedie againste heresie or no I◠perteineth to the storie that one was placed ouer the rest at such tyme and place as is set downe by Ierome likewise that the cawse that moued them to bring in this coustome was for preseruacion off peace and none off thes is denied but whether this cawse were well assigned and whether this supposed to preserue peace banished godly peace is the question If this be a matter off storie storie hath a larger kingdome then euer I heard off Yet this he doth as absurdly charge me with after in Iustines testimonie where likewise I denie no part off his storie Yf this be to discredite men to say their autoritie ovvght not to vveigh further then yt hath vveight ether off scripture or some reason grovvnded theroff then I haue discredited all writers from the Apostels time For by thes weightes I haue esteemed the best But I leaue to be cōsidered what a popish tyrānie he goeth abowt to bring into the church which lifteth the credit of any be he neuer so godly ād learned aboue that which I haue here alledged Where he saith I confound Monarchie with Tyrannie in that I ask whether the church be not in as great daunger when all is doon at the pleasure off one as when one pulleth one peece and an other an other yt is but a vaine shifting hole For althowgh thes wordes at the Pleasure and lust off one be for the moste part spoken by way off dispraise and I willingly confesse I vsed them becawse this Ecclesiasticall monarchie seldome or neuer deserueth better yet my wordes following declare that my comparison is betwene the Ecclesiasticall gouernement off one and off many not betwene one gouerning tyrannically and many moderatly For supposing that both the Archbishop and those which gouerne in commen be godly and catholike I affirme that he being one is sooner drawen into error then many sooner ouercaried with his affection then a godly companie In answer wherof and reasons wherwith this is confirmed the D. falleth flatly into that wherewith he chargeth me For in steed that he should haue marched many godly and learned ministers with one he matcheth him with the multitude and commē sort and in steed off comparing one ruling by law with many gouerning by the same he compareth him with a lawles companie and in steed off comparing a litle vvater with much of the same kinde he compareth a litle conduite water closed vp in lead with much fennish and muddy Which what leaden answers they be let the reader iudge For in this path of reasoning which he walketh in a man may proue it better to haue but one eye then two becawse some see better with one then other some with both His answer to that off preferring contention before vvicked peace that we haue the true doctrine and right administration of Sacramentes c. and therfore no contention is to be moued is as muche to the question as if he had answered off the wether For the question is not of the estate off our church but off all generally nor whether we haue the truth of doctrine c. but by what way yt ys best kept His answer to the similitude of fire stricken by flintes is more fond For I shewing by yt that contētion is better then wicked peace he answereth the fire stricken may be in suche a time that it may consume the whole countrey and that it is madnes to light a candell at noone daies As if the fire off the truth which I spake off and so called off our Sauiour can consume any thing but straw stuble c. or the Apostle were not glad that the truth came forth allthowgh by contention or it were noone day when the heauens thorowgh ignorāce ād errors are like an haircloth which is the time I spake of And where hauing shewed that tharchbishop is not fittest to kepe the church in possession off the truth I admit by way off disputation that he vvere the fittest adding that forsomuch as he hath as great force to kepe men in error vvhen they are fallen into it this in commoditie ovvght to driue vs to some other gouernement he answereth a monarchie being the worst kind of gouernement when it ruleth by affection ceasseth not to be lawfull when it ruleth by lawes Where first I refer the reader to that before that it is one thing off the forme off church gouernement an other of the commēt wealth which is answer to all thes slanderous speaches here repeted Secondly the church receiueth greater dammage by an Archbishop keping yt in error then the commen wealth by any outrage off tyrannie For there can be no tyrannie in the gouernement off the cōmen wealth so extreme wherin there is not somthing tending to preseruacion off it and consequently off the church But in the gouernement off an Archbishop fallen from the truth and in the swinge off his vncontrolled autoritie keping the truth vnder there is nothing but destruction and ruine withowt step or footing off the fauour off God towardes the vpholding off the church Seing therfore tyrannie in the commen wealth is not so great an ennemy vnto the commen wealth as a church tyrant vnto the truth there is better cawse to haue a Monarchie in the commen wealth then in the church as that which can not stray so far as the other from the end wherunto it was ordeined Moreouer the cawse why the Monarchie in commen wealth can not be condemned is for that it is one off those gouernementes which God hath established and allowed by his word But the Archbishoprick to let pas that yt is contrarie to the word off God yt is sufficient in this consideration that yt hath no allowance off the same For therupon foloweth that althowgh the abuse off those thinges which God hath approued can not destroie the lawfull vse off them yet this which hath no further alowance then of the mouth off mē may vpon experience off euill husbandrie in the church matters be worthely reiected So yt may be seen that althowghe the Ans would make one case off a Magistrate and archbishop yet there is as far distance betwene them as betwene heauen and earth Yt resteth to shewe that the archbishopricke hath bene so farre from nourishing the church peace that yt hath bene the knife wherwith all the stringes and knottes theroff haue bene cutte in peaces Againste vvhich the Ans alledgeth firste the testymonies off Cyprian and Ierome Wherin besyde that I haue shewed that they helpe him not yt is before declared that nether Cyprians bishop did any thing at all nor Ieromes the ordination excepted but by common consent off all the elders Not onely because they were at making off the church lawes vnder which wrinckel the D. woulde hide the excesse off the archbishops
base citie equall vvith the reste referreth that to the deacons vvhich in some places vvere preferred before the elders who seeth not but that speaking against the truthe he was so amazed that wordes comminge from him reason stickethe yet in his penne For what reason is there that Ierome shoulde therfore saie the bishop off Eugubium vvas equall vnto the Bishop off Rome notvvithstanding the bishop off Rome vvere his superior because the deacon vvas preferred in Rome before the elder What giue is here to ioyne thes together or what cawse was there that Ierome shoulde speake basely off the metropolitanes autoritie ouer the bishop because the deacon was preferred before the elder ys there anie reason that because the deacon did iniurie vnto the elder therfore Ierome shoulde speake sparingly of the metropolitane â—nd doo him iniurie also moreouer if this was the occasion why he spake so off a bishop because certeine deacons were preferred before the elders considering that that coustome was onely at Rome as Ierome him self declareth why should he make the bishop off Tanais a small towne in Egypte equall with the bishop off Alexandria the metropolitane citie there and the bishop Rhegium equall with the bishop off Constantinople For seing that mischeif off the preferment off Deacons before the elders was not in other places then in Rome there was no cause why he should speake thus off theÌ„ if that had bene the cause which Erasmus alledgeth Where he addeth vvhen Ierome saith the bishops and elders vvere equall that is to be vnderstanded that the elder vvas equall vvith the bishop in that they vvere bothe preferred vnto the deacon I meruaile the Ans is not ashamed to alledge that saying without all colour off truthe For I haue alledged diuers other places owte off Ierome where he speaking absolutely withoute respecte off any deacon affirmeth the bishop and elder all one in the beginning And what a ridiculous disputacion doth he make Ierome to hould For it is all one as if a maÌ„ after longe discourse to proue LondeÌ„ and Yorke equall in the ende shoulde conclude that Yorke were equall with London because they be bothe greater then Nuington Now let the reader iudge what vnworthie outcries the D. vseth bothe before and after off guilful dealing and shifting the place of Ierome therby to drowne the voice of the trwthe and whether I haue interpreted it according to his naturall meaning and as other godlie and learned haue doone and whether he contrarily to mainteine his firste saying hath vsed shiftes partely popishe ouerthrowinge the answers off those which haue trauailed againste popery aswell as mine partely fonde and childishe which he woulde beare owt with Erasmus autoritie withowt any weight off reason Likewise how he after dallieth in his longe translation and repetition of Ierome to no purpose That a doctor differeth from a pastor hathe bene shewed that he is inferior vnto him appeareth not onely because the Apostle placeth him after where he dothe moste exactly set downe the order off preaching ministers but also that the giftes required for that office are as hathe bene shewed lesse wherunto may be added the practise off the elder churches which estemed the doctor alwaies vnder him whom they called bishop or Pastor That the elder which gouerneth onely is inferior to the Doctor appeareth bothe in that his giftes be fewer and that the Apostel giueth more honour to him then to the elder That Deacons are vnder those elders for that their charge is to serue the tables onely and therfore but a part off the churche where the elders gouernemeÌ„t is ouer the whole Likewise for that the deacons charge being in thinges perteining to the nourishement off the body muste gyue place to that off the elders whose watche is ouer the sowles Al which the ministery off the Doctor onely excepted which is shut vp commoÌ„ly in the bishop is confirmed by continuall practise off the churche which vppon all occasions off speaking off this ministerie placeth the bishop before the elder and the elder before the deacon and precisely the foresaid Ignarius sheweth that the deacon is vnder the elder thelder vnder the bishop where that thelder which onely gouerneth and not onely he which teacheth is vnderstanded at which hole the D. would creepe out shall be after in proper place declared So appeareth that order in the ministery and diuersitie off degrees are defined off by the word of God and that euen in the Ecclesiasticall ministery ther is inequalitie althowgh all pastors be equall amongeste them selues and withall that order standeth withowt the archbishop or any other deuised ministery Chrysost browght by me is shamfully corrupted and the corruption opened in the former diuis his allegations there owght to be rulers in the church and order to punishe faultes so erksomly repeted are Idle yt being confessed and withall shewed that there is none off those but are doone withowt his ether bishop or Archbishop where hauing no reason he falleth to exhortacion that I would not stand in my conceite but thincke the gouernement off his bishop better then that laid forth by vs if he can compound with the word of God with the reformed churches Apostolical and present with the purest writers ould and newe I with my conceites as he speeaketh will be ready to hould tharchbishops stirup That he affirmeth the forme off gouernement wherin one is aboue all necessary in our commen wealthe althowgh I haue shewed that I greatly allow of it yet that yt is necessary and that the Prince and ParlemeÌ„t can not vpon occasion alter yt especially without breache off the lawe off God which onely maketh the necessitie vve speake of ys an vntrwth apparant to all that haue euer tasted off holy or humane letters And althowghe yt semeth he hath couenanted vvith him self to speake all he supposeth may please yet his knowledge answering not his wâ—ll he is found here to abridge the authoritie off the ciuile powre which he thowght to haue stretched owt and to binde it to that which the lord lefte at the libertie theroff Where he saithe the externall gouernement off the church vnder a Christian magistrat muste be according to the kinde and forme of gouernement vsed in the comon wealth it partly hath aÌ„d further God willing shall appeare that the gouernemeÌ„t of the church debated is certein by the vvord off God and vnchangeable As for his bolt so soone shot and with so smal drafte of reason yt is brokeÌ„ with the vvinde off his owne mouth For where he maketh the externall gouernement throwghe owte his whole booke at the pleasure of the Prince which is his principall hould here he teacheth that yt is not in the princes powre onles she will ether put of or deuide her crowne vvith others to put downe the archbishop for the externall gouernement off the church saith he muste be according to the kinde and forme off gouernement off the comon wealth
althowgh yt be not expressed yt may partly appeare by that disputation vppon 20 Math. for if all the Apostels were lefte of our Sauiour Christe in equall autoritiâ— â–ª ether Peter tooke that vppon him withowt callinge or els he receiued yt off the Apostels But the firste is confessed vntrw therfore yt hath grounde off the word off God that Saint Peter was chosen off the Apostels vnto the presidentship in those actions And as yt hath bene shewed owte off S. Mathew 20. that none off them was higher then other so off S. Peter yt appeareth particularly in that he and S. Iohn were sent by the colledge of the Apostels wheras if he had bene made cheife by our Sauiour and that from the ascention vnto his dying daie yt had not bene lawfull for the Apostels by making him their Embassadour to haue made him inferior to the resâ—dâ—w I know what the Papistes answer in this poincte but the D. bancke being discouered I thincke he will chaunge his creditors Where he saith yt is contrary to scripture because S. Peter 2. Act. so soudenly defended the Apostels againste the accusation off dronkennes as he coulde not tary for their voices it is ridiculous For I would know first what testimonie of scripture he hath to proue yt doon so soudenly Then who is so sensles as not to vnderstand that the eleuen standing with him could not in a trice ether by voice or finger lifted vp caste that charge off speaking then vpon Peter so that onles he did as it were take the Iewes wordes owte off their mouth no time could wante for that matter He saith further Act. the 1 and 15. considered yt shal appeare allwaies Peters office to speake firste and rule the action and that he was at no time chosen therto by voices much les at euery particular meeting which first is a grosse petition off that in question Then if wee were not hable to shewe by the worde that our S. Christe did not apoincte Peter cheife off the reste yet by what ether sentence or worde owte off the scripture is he hable to shewe that he was appoincted gouernour by him ouer all the reste during his liffe Thirdly to leaue Actes 15. disorderly alledged which is to be handled in the very nexte diuision let him shew vs how he can proue that S. Peter was cheif in that actioÌ„ of praier where yt ys said that all the Apostles lifted vp their voice likewise in the election of the deacons where the calling together off the disciples the exhortacion vnto them the praier for the Deacons chosen the laying on off handes is as indifferently giuen to all the reaste as to Peter All know that one conceiued the praier in the name off the reste that one was president in the election But that that was Peter more then ether Iohn or Iames or any the reste can not be shewed by one title off scripture yet our D. doth assure vs and as he saith owt off the scripture that Peter was the lodesman Where I shew that to suppose Peter not chosen by the Apostels to take vpoÌ„ him the gouernmeÌ„t is to doo him iniury he answereth he was appointed vnto yt off God and lawfully As if to be appointed off God and lawfully could not stand with the Apostels chusing of him or their electioÌ„ were not the electioÌ„ of god For if he meane he was chosen to yt by Christe imÌ„ediatly it is that in question wherof he bringeth not a lettre of proofe But this iudgemeÌ„t offmine hath no ground off scripture or ether learned or auncient autoritie What ground off scripture I haue let the reader iudge off that already and to be alledged in the next diuis For autoritie I haue shewed that Musculus whom he hath made his pillor in this behalfe affirming that Peter vvas in many places the cheife is againste him which saith he was alwaies cheife and for me as giuing therby to vnderstand that this cheiftie varied and was sometimes put vpon other Which is also confirmed by Caluin who in saying the Apostels gaue this vnto Peter for the moste parte that he should speake firste confirmeth both that he had his preheminence off the Apostels and that he had yt not alwaies Secondly I haue here alledged the Scoliaste that all vvas doone by commen consente Wherto he answereth he saith not Peter was at euery assembly chosen cheife which is vaine For if all were doone with consente then Peters forespeaking a parte of that which was done was likewise What wil he say to Gratian his good expounder which in this cause is more fauorable then the Papistes he hath folowed which fetch Peters cheifdome from our Sau. Christe for he confesseth that Peter vvas chosen by the Apostles Wher owte off the scoliaste I shewed that this presidentship off Peter vvas not doone imperiously vvith dominion or povvre he answereth no lawfull iurisdiction not of the king him selfe is so Which smelleth off Anabaptistrie and is before confuted For if the vvorde imperiously vvhich I vsed be taken often in euill parte yet may not I beseche yow a Prince doe princelike vvhich is the vvorde the Scoliast vseth may not the higher power doo thinges vvith powre both vvhich the Scoliaste denieth to haue bene done of Peter But there is in superioritie humilitie If you meane that Princes muste be humbly minded I graunte but yf you meane that humilitie in Princes will not suffer to commaund Princelike in thinges lawfull I denie yt He addeth that in rule and autoritie meaning ciuill there is seruitude If he meane to the lorde I graunte and then yt is nothing to the pourpose If that Kinges are seruantes vnto their peoples which onely can haue place here I denie yt for the cause before assigned Where wee see againe how the D. as if he led Princes in a stringe maketh them to beare vp my Lorde Archbishops traine For seing he seeth yt denied him to rule princelike or with powre for shifte off answer he wresteth the scepter owte of their hand saying the king him selfe may not doe so yf the Scoliast had said that Peter did nothing tyrannically nothing with oppression which two are aswel denied vnto Princes as to bishops then the D. answer would haue serued But when he saith he did nothing princelike nothing by povvr yt is manifest he tawght that the rule lawfull in Princes ouer their subiectes was not meete for Peter ouer the other Apostels Where he addeth the Scoliaste saith Peter rose c. as one that had receiued the Presidentship of the Apostels to let pas his translation which in steed off disciples vnderstanded of all the church hath put Apostles which was peculier then to the 11. he doth but daly For I deny not that Peter had receiued yt but that he had yt giuen off our Sau. Christe immediatly or during his liffe both which are in controuesie there is not a worde Where in the entrance
consulship not in all pointes but onely in this that he should propound the matters c. as before Which appeareth in an other place and euen in this verie place when he saith yt is meete that althovvghe they be all off equall povver yet there should be one as yt vvere moderator And therfore if yow woulde haue made yowr archbishops according to Caluins measure he owght to haue no more preheminence before the simplest pastor then the Consull which spake had before his fellow Consull which helde his peace Wher he saith the prolocutor chosen for the inferior sort of clergie yet the Archbishop reteineth still his office yt shewethe that he is now but an idoll hauing put ouer the duty to other for which he is supposed to haue bene so necessarie But yt is manifest that the Prolocutor in the synode hathe all that preheminence which Peter had aboue the other Apostels and therfore which one pastor owght to haue aboue an other which is that I browght yt for The next I answere not Where I shew his vaine argument that one bishop shoulde be aboue an other because Paule an APostle was aboue Timothe an Euangelist he saith that yt houldethe because they differ not in the administring off the the worde and sacramentes but in gouernement Which is vntrew for they differed in both alike For as they differed from the Apostles in that they gouerned those onely churches ouer which they were set where the Apostles gouernement stretched vnto all churches so they could not administer the worde and sacramentes but where they were appointed where the Apostles might do yt in all places But for further confutation off this distinction I referre me to that before Where I shew his argument all one with this my Lord maior is aboue the Sherifes therfore one sherife is aboue an other he saith I should haue concluded that because my Lord Maior hath rule ouer the cytisens therfore the Apostels superioritie ouer an inferior degree off ministerie proueth that one in the same degre of ministerie may rule ouer an other Which is to ridiculous For if it were as it is not a good argument from ciuill gouernement vnto ecclesiasticall yet to saie that therfore one ecclesiasticall officer may beare rule ouer an other yea that one may beare rule ouer his fellowes off the same order becawse the magistrate beareth rule ouer priuate men cleaneth togither as goates dounge So that if there were any argument here yt ys that as my Lord maior ruleth ouer the cytisens so yt behouethe the pastor to rule ouer his flocke The next diuisiō is answered Wher he calledged Calu. that vppon that Paul willed Titus to appoint Elders saithe Titus was in autoritie and counsell aboue other Pastors and I opposed Calu. which sheweth that he did nothing in that behalfe vvithovvt the aduise off other pastors and consent off the churches he askethe whotly still for answere As if it were not answered especially when I shewed before that the superioritie that ministers can haue in suche meetinges is onely to propounde c. as is before declared Which Calu. do the expresly set forthe in the same place when he saith S. Paule commaunded him onely to be president or moderator in the election The two first sections how shamefullie they be said I leaue to the readers iudgement in the last against that I alledged owt off the Scoliaste that Paule would not haue one rule the whole I le and therfore not Titus is browght first an exposition gone abowte to be confirmed off him and Chrysostome which say that Paule committed vnto Titus Crete and to Timothie almoste all Asia As yf that might not well stand with that that Titus gouerned one citie alone for in that they had autoritie giuen them to appoint ministers in forme aforesaid in all that circuite vntill the churche there were fully established and a lawfull ministerie throwghly planted ▪ there charge in that respecte extended yt selfe to that whole circuite But when the countrey was deuided into seuerall churches and euery churche had a lawfull and complete ministery he charge before generall is now restrained vnto that one churche where Titus made his abode Euen as euerie off the 12. Princes and Aaron which deuided the land off Canaan had before partition a certein power off all which after lottes cast had onely to do with that which apperteined to them in seuerall A thowgh yf yt be graunted that Titus and Timothe continued that large gouernement during their abode there wherin I will not striue yet considering as hathe bene shewed they were Euangelistes and no Bishops nor Archbishops there can nothing grow to them hereby For as no man can haue gouernement ouer all the churches which the Apostels had but they that haue that speciall office so none can succede into the iurisdiction off Euangelistes but they onely which haue that extraordinarie ministerie And therfore Caluin in the place before cited off the D. saith there vvas not then suche equalitie c. but that one did rule ouer an other noting by the word then which the D. hathe vnfaithfully left owt that the gouernemēt which Titus had in Creta was for those times when ther were suche extraordinarie callinges Wher he saith in streightening Titus to one church I make him pastor which I donie let him learne that to haue charge in one church alone not a pastor vnles he be so tied that he can not departe withowt the churche lose his bonde Which neither Titus was nor is by any word affirmed off me Whether the rest be shamels accusations let the reader iudge The next althowghe vnworthy of answer being but bare affirmacions against my reasons is answered before As for that those wordes receiue no accusations c. must needes be vnderstanded of one which hathe other elders vnderneathe him and therfore not off euerie pastor yt argueth that the D. is spent For he knowethe that we hould that euery pastor had his elders assistan which hath and shall God willing appeare Besides that it argueth his ignorance off the state of the elder churches wher as hathe bene shewed bishops sat in iudgement off other bishops ād elders not vnderneath them That ther be not a hundreth seuerall preceptes in the three epistles to Timothe and Titus wheras in diuers verses there be sixe or seuen doth well become his bouldnes Against reason alledged owt off Augustine that the place owt off Epiphanius was of some false Epiphanius here is nothing but autoritie Howbeit not to striue for this before I come to answere yt is to be noted that this is Pigghius reason against the churche off God euen in the verie selfe same cause which we haue now in hād towching this sort of bishops For against the Waldenses firste and after against Wickleue which put no difference betwene a bishop and a priest Pigghius hath a treatise in his Hierarche wherin he pressethe them with
not yet yt was hard for him to haue suche knowledge off so many churches wherby he might giue so precise a sentence especially if they be compared with ours which often haue heretikes euen vnder there nose and either see them not or looke throwghe their fingers Where to declare the vnlikelihoode off our bishops with thē in times past Theodoret bishop 26. yeares is shewed to haue had neuer a halfepennie c his answere is he professed voluntarilie pouertie Wherto I haue litle to replie but that the D. for aduantage spareth not the honour of his authors it being a great reproche in so great wealthe as the D. supposeth he might lawfully haue had to be so beggarly The next I leaue to the readers iudgement That the office off Archbishop and Patriarck by Caluin was nothing but to assemble the Synod propound the matter gather the voices c. I haue shewed condemning those names in the generall he must nedes condemne them in the particular for in bothe those names the word off dominion ys put which he condemneth That he condemneth the office with vs is clearer then the sunne and that in diuers sortes first generall in that vppon the Apostles wordes no man may take honour but he that is called as Aaron he denieth yt lawfull to set vp any gouernement in the churche at the pleasure off men vvithovvt vvaiting for the commaundement of God and that the church office deuised vvithovvt his commaundement and expresse ordinance is vnlavvfull Wherby appeareth that the admonitions allegacion which the D. other where calleth grosse is in effect as fyne as Caluins Secondly in that he dothe in flat wordes declare that the holie goste tooke great heede that one should not so much as dreame off principalitie and dominion in the gouernement of the churche Thirdly in that he dothe precisely mislike that any should haue postorall charge ouer a Prouince which he declareth yet more manifestlie when he saithe the gouernement of the highe priest vvhich vvas ouer one nation ▪ being a figure off our Sau. Christ ovvght not to be follovved Wherby appeareth how vntrwly he chargeth me otherwhere with falsifiyng Caluin for saying that his iudgement is that no one should be minister off a whole nation That onely which he liketh off and confesseth to haue bene done according to the word off God is that when there were controuersies to be voided one had the preheminence to assemble the companie c. which preheminence we haue before confirmed so far is yt from vs that we can not abide yt That it can not be drawen further appeareth by that in the beginning off this treatise where it is manifest he streineth him selfe to speake honorably off the maner off discipline in the elder churches yet he saith there vvas almost nothing againste the vvord off God. And further that althovvgh there may be some lack in their orders yet because they did it oft good mynd and erred not muche it is good to gather yt Moreouer towching that institution which off all other is most plausible and least princelike that one in a churche should haue the name off bishop which notwihstanding as hathe bene shewed had no dominion nor autoritie to commaunde the reste he saithe that autoritie had no institution nor ground ovvt off the vvord of God. Wherupon yt is manifest those wordes off Calu. the ould bishops did frame no kind off gouernement but prescribed in the lordes vvord can not be drawen further then I haue said Where he expoundeth Caluins wordes euery singular bodie off church a dioces or prouince yt is as all the rest off these diuisions a shamefull bouldnes considering that Calu. doth in expresse wordes shut forthe a prouince and in calling it a singular bodie vsed moste propre wordes to set forthe a congregation which assembled into one place may at once be fed at one mouthe Where also otherwhere he supposeth Calu. meant by Prouinces suche as are vnder diuerse gouernours because one Prouince in one particular church in one kingdome vnder one Prince is but one bodie c. to omit his absurd speache that a prouince is in a particular churche in stede that he should haue said a particular churche is in the prouince let it be obserued that in making the whole churche in a kingdome but that singular bodie Calu. speaketh off he maketh notwithstanding the churche in one prouince which is the halfe off that yea euery diocese to be that singular bodie So that one singular and vndiuisible bodie off a churche must be twentie and one off them also cōteining an other which is absurde yea by this meanes the church in a 100. Prouinces being vnder one Prince shall be but one singular bodie His reason that he can not meane a particular parish because euery one hath not many ministers is a cauill For it is enowghe that ther were diuerse in some churches as in the churche off Philippes wheroff he spake to draw him to that consideration Besides that there was as shall appeare in the particular churches appointed by the word off God an eldership amongest whom it was meete the same order shoulde be kepte Where he supposethe Caluin to haue thowght the churche off Geneua with all those belonging vnto yt to haue made but one bodie off a churche all see the D. pouertie driuen to leaue his wide workes to seeke some comforte in his thowghtes onely knowen to the lord If I shoulde vse the aduantage off that he spake and I hearde off vndowbted witnesses that althowghe he had no preheminence before the lowest Mynister but onely to propounde the causes gather the voices c. and was chosen therunto euerie two yeare yet he misliked that that small preheminence shoulde so long remaine with one as which in time might breed in conuenience likewise that I hearde my selfe off Maister Beza which misliked off yt for the same cause affirming it cōuenient that it shoulde be done by euerie Pastor off the same resort in his weeke wheroff there be also other witnesses I say yf I should vse this aduantage a great deale more honest then his all see how that chaunge of presidētes which he derideth and will haue my onely phantasie should beside the scripture alledged and vse off the churches in Fraunce haue the approbation off these godly learned men But when in deede he deride the their iudgement written I haue smale hope that he will beare any reuerence to it onely spoken Neither require I that he esteme any thing theirs which can not be conuinced owt off their writinges let him wreste and wring wind and turne his worst But that we be not streight with him admit Caluin so thowght dothe yt follow that becawse he estemed a singular bodie off a churche scarce 20. small parishes lying round abowt wheroff euery off the ministers at the least meete once a weeke bothe for exercise off prophesie or interpretacion off the
Athanasius when he was but deacon or elder at the most writeth To Athanasius Lord and beloued sonÌ„e So that if Dominus must needes be a Lord then my Lord bishop muste by the same reason that he would be called Lord call the elders or Deacons Lordes likewise So there shall be Lord Bishop Lord Elder Lord Deacon vvhich as it is ridiculous so it tuneth not with the bishops note off honour which the D. fighteth for And this is also answer to my Lord Paulinus beside that Lord is not referred vnto the pronoune yovvres as if the councell had said Athanasius was the elders Lord. And if it were yet if he vvill therupon conclude any superioritie of him aboue thelders off his church he must by the same reason say that one simple bishop had superioritie ouer an other seing Eusebius bishop calleth Paulinus his fellow bishop his Lord which is absurd and condemned off him self Now I haue shewed him how bishopes were called most honorable Lordes he hath gotten two or three places where are found titles to the same effect which is idle seing that was confessed To my answer that Lorde vvith them vvas no other title then might be gyuen to a man off meane degree he saith most honorable Lord was onely gyuen to those in great autoritie which is onely said and may easely be confuted in that Alexander bishop off Alexandria the Metropolitane citie vvriting to all the church ministers not bishops onely called them most honorable fellovv ministers That he saith it was not grudged at then that bishops were called by the same titles that Princes ys very plaine language and needeth no commentarie to shew the meaning sauing that he durst not vtter all For if he would haue applied his place he shoulde haue saide yt was not grudged at then that bishops vvere called by more loftie titles then th Emperours seing the title he presseth for the bishops is most precious Lordes and the Emperour as he saith vvas onely called Lord. That the house off salutations was within the boundes off the churche appeareth not in Theodoret. His reason because the houses perteining to the bishoprick were nere the churche is weake For althowgh all howses perteining to the bishoprik were neere yet there might be some neere not perteining therto Hâ—â—beit if it were belonging to the church in that vvord there is no such note off excellency wherby yt deserueth to be the porters lodge of our bishops palaces To that off the bishops bestovving the church goods vpon loitering seruing men vvhich shoulde be bestovved vpon the vniuersities and poore bothe ministers and other he saith and onely saith that their number off seruing men tendeth to the defense off the realme honour off the prince and their owne good education off the princes honour yt is answered strenght to the realme they can not be seing the men should be althowghe they were not nourished by the bishop especially seing the bishops howse is an vnfit schole to traine vp to vvarfare And if the former necessities were helped aÌ„d yt thowght meet that the church goods should serue the realm that vvay all see that yt would rise to more profit if some were nourished off them in profession off a Souldiour then that in waiting vpon the white Rochet they should rather become vvhite liuered then fashioned for that seruice Beside that the bishops countenaÌ„ce being so profitable as yt is made and placed a greate parte in this suite off men it is manifest that his pompe houlding diuers at home which otherwise might be in the field weakeneth rather then strenghneth the realme For the education they get vnder them the corrupte religion of some the wante of Catechising others ignorant in the principles of religion the leudnes of diuers the idlenes off the most parte which is in the eies of all giue to plentifull a confutation off that parte wherin let the reader obserue how vnmeet they be to gouern dioceses and Prouinces which haue their proper houses so euil ordered especially seing the Apostel vvill not truste him vvith one parishe vvhich ruleth not his owne howse vvel And the trwth ys that the church mynistery is of that trauaill and care that yt vvill not suffer the bishops gyftes be they neuer so greate to be spente in the houshoulding and masterlike charge off suche a nomber vvhich vvas no doubt one cause why bothe the scripture and the olde Canons shut owt the bishops from this pompe Where he saith the vniuersities ministers and poore may otherwise be prouided for when that ys browght to pas and in suche sorte as a sufficient nomber â—f learned men may be nourced vp to fournish bothe the churche off ther ministers and coÌ„men wealth off her magistrates the ouerplus may as M. Hoopers counsail is goo to maintenance off Souldiours or other necessary vses aduised off by the common vvealthe That the canons browght against the bishops pomp reache to vniuersitie colledges forasmuch as there were none such then as we haue now ys vntrwe considering that with other vniuersities euery bishops howse vvas as hathe bene shewed a colledge off Students in diuinitie and yt ys otherwise vnsufficient For I reason not againste their pompe because yt was not vsed in times paste but because yt was forbidden And if he can shew the reuenews off Colledges forbidden by the Godly councels then yt had heue somewhat he saith Ad also that if the pompe and ryot off Colledges werelike the bishops yt were likewise worthie to be spoken against Ierome cited against the pompe of bishops receiueth answer that he spake agaynste the abuse and not thuse Ieromes wordes be these let the readeriudge off his meanig yt is a foule shame that before the gates off pore and crucified Christe VVho also eate of other mens meate the Consuls Sergeantes and Gard shoulde vvaite and that the ruler off the Prouince shoulde dine better at thy hovvse then in the palace But if thovv pretend to do these thinges to th ende to beg for the poore the Secular iudge vvill giue more to a churche man vvhich kepethe measure and is frugall then to one vvhich is riche and reuerence more thy holines then thy riches Or if the ruler be suche that he vvill not hearken to the churchmen ctauing for the poores reliefe but vvhen he is amongest the cupps I vvill gladly vvant suche a benefit and beg off Christ in stede off the iudge vvho is better and soner able to helpe then the iudge I omit that he inueighethe against a church maÌ„ which poore before becometh riche by the church aÌ„d liuing very homely before after vsethe delicate fare with other thinges to that ende Whether this were one cause off the bishops stately pompe that certeine noble and riche men receâ—â—ed to the mynistery and liuing somvvhat like their former estates others assaied to be like vnto them whether an other cause were for that it being amongest the heathen priests
vse is shewed to haue continued in the Deacons diij We are also confirmed in this refusal by autoritie off a nombre off the reformed churches dcxviij off the Godly writers which haue particulerly spokeÌ„ against ether all or some of these offices As Ierome 598. M. Wicleue 616. Luther 617. Barnes and Hooper 526. Bucer 556. 567. 662. Musculus 549. 598. Caluin 566. 613. c. 629. The bishop off Salisbury 568. Beza 505. Bullinger 426. 567. Hetherto belonge â—â— that the answerers reasons in this cause are drawen almost 〈◊〉 from the Papistes Namely from Pighius Harding and other â—â—pistes against the Catholikes 414. 426. 446 573. 616. 622. And from Harding against the bishop of Salisbury 425. 430. 453. 472. 497. 500 599 601. 611. 612. Ecclesiasticall election IT owght to be with consent of the church first for that yt ys the institution off god This is shewed owt off the 14. Actes 194. Here is disputed off the signification of lifting vp of handes 199 Also out of the 8. 1. Corinthes 209. and Actes 6 134. for that the lightest charges off the church were not doen but by consent off yt where the exception taken from Pigghius is answered Likewise owt of j. Actes 12â— Considering that in that Election which was made immediatly by the lord the churches iudgement was not passed by This ys strenghtned by Nomb. 8. 220. Leuiticus â— Nombers 20. 222. Hetherto perteineth that which the D. alledgeth to the contrary owt off Titus 1. and Timoth. 1. 5 â–ª cclxv drawen from Pighius cclxx Whereto belongeth that the scripture sometime attributeth to the chief in an action that is coÌ„mon to moe then to them confirmed by the manner off speaking both in scripture and otherwise also by the iudgemeÌ„t of Caluin Musculus 196. Beza 135. Bullinger 197. Further that which the D bringeth owt off 13 Act. taken from Hosius cclxxxiij Likewise that the form off the Election should be other now then in time off the Apostels ccxxxv Where the number off Christians and throwgh the nomber tumult in elections is confuted Also that of the difference of religion and maners betwene Christians then and now taken from Hosius ccxlj â–ª Where is handled the shutting forth of papistes Dronkards and Whoremongers Further that the estate off the church was not then popular ccxlix That the confirmation off the election by the magistrat altereth not the forme cclxij Hether also refer the counterfait Ambrose drawen from Pighius off the diuersyty off gouernement off the church then and now cclix This is confirmed of the effectes off the church Election because yt breedeth assurance off the minister in his calling maketh the people more obedient to him as Musculus confesseth cclx Causeth the Godly to loue him 〈◊〉 and bridleth the Hypocrites from outrage against him … xix Hetherto refer that the D bringeth off the supposed contention that this will breed cxxxiiij cxlvij cclxxxviij Likewise of the comparison betwene the effectes off our bishops elections with those off the churches cxlvij. ccxxvij Likewise that the errors off the churches election may be commodiously remedied by the churches hard by by the Synodes and if they faile by the magistrat 23â— That it is the churches liberty as Musculus saith cclx Also that the consent off the parliament touching the bishops election ys not the churches ecclesiastical election Where the D doth but mocke the church ccxxv That certein thinges ar variable in this election hindereth not the perpetuitie off the churches coÌ„sent cxxxvij That the ignorance off the church is not such as both hinder the churches election cxi cxlvj. ccxxix Nether corruption of religion such cxivij Nor of affections ccxxix This is also shewed by comparison off the churches election with that which is coÌ„monly doen in ciuil affaires ccxxiiij confirmed by Peter Martyr ccxxviij Last off all this is confirmed by ould custome ccxx by Councels Nycene cclvij cclxxxiiij CoÌ„stantinople Carthage Toledo alledged page xxxvij off my first book off Paris Orleans with diuers other ccxx Emperours decrees cciij Ignatius cciij Cyprian cxxv ccxâ—ij Where is the D. exception taken owt off Pigghius Gregorie Nazianzene Ambrose ccixxx Chrysostome cxciij Ierome cclxxvj Augustin cclxxviij The exception against which testimony is takeÌ„ from Pigghius Oecumenius ccij Luther ccxiiij Archbishop off Reines â—usanus Celestinus Leo ccliij Off the autorities which he vseth that off Chrysostome vppon the 6 off the Actes is answered cxciij That owt of his book de sacerdorio and S. Iohn drawen both from Hosius cclxxxviij ccxcj The rest ether are nothing to purpose or are shewed flat against him for vs as the Canon attributed to the Apostles off the Ancyran and Antioch can Councel ccxvâ—ij Caluin cxxvj. ccxvj ccxxij Zuingâ—â—us and Bulllinger cxcvj Beza cxciâ—ij Musculus ccixiij and toe example off the Tigurine election ccixv Differing in some point fâ—â—m vs are shewed greatly against him Examinâ—â—â—on an other part off election That the ecclestasticall ministers examinatioÌ„ is instituted in the word ys shewed owt off Acres j. cxxj 6. Act cxxvij. 1. Timothy iij. cxliiij Whether perteineth the example off Ieroboam clxi Althowgh they be knowen yet meet they should be offered vnto yt cxxij yea and examined althowgh some good knowledg be before exxviij That it owght not to be made by one onely as appeareth by the former testimonies Hether belong the reasons of ignorance corruption in religion and affection noted in the former title as those which are common to this aswel as to the churches consent in election This is explaned by comparison off Ciuill affaires res cxxâ—x c. clix Confirmed by example off S. Paul xvj Act. cliiij Whether perteineth that alledged of the D. that S. Paul was receiued at the testimony of Barnabas 160. Especially this examination owght not to be made by the Archdeacon in the election off a bishop cliiij And that the receiuing of a bishop at his testimonie came from Rome cxliij That in the examination with vs the church ys vtterly shut owt howsoeuer the D pretend otherwise cliiij Knowen adulterers owght not to be receiued into the mynistery clxxvj Nor ministers fallen into Idolatry cxlv The law of Moses in that behalf owght rather to be obserued vnder the gospel then vnder the law cixxvj The endes hereof clxxiiij Here is handled the example of Iudas clxviij clxxiiij The Pharisies clxviij Off S. Paul and Peter clxxiiij Likewise are handled S. Peters denial clxxvij and the gentiles Idolatry clxxxiiij Increased by the D. to the end that the Popish Idolatry should semeles Likewise that the decree off restoring ministers fallen into Idolatry was not of the Councel of rebaptization clxxxij That they which are nue come to religion owght not to be receiued to the ministery off the word clxxx That a prouf may be taken off the bishops habilitie in teaching before he be ordeined cl That if they be not able to teach they owght not by the word to be ordeined ccclxvij Hether perceineth that