foundationalls of the Church of Ephesus which were about twelve the number in the first beginning of the greatest Church was small enough in comparison Acts 1.15 p. 9 POS. 3. A visible Church in the new Testament consists of no more in number then may meet in one place in one Congregation 1 Cor. 11.20 14.23 p. 13 POS. 4. A visible Charch in the new Testament is not Nationall as the Jewes was hence we reade of the Churches of Galatia Macedonia Judea not Church of Galatia 1 Cor. 16.1 2 Cor. 8.1 p. 21 POS. 5. When a visible Chuch is to be erected the matter of it should be visible Saints and Believers 1 Cor. 1.2 p. 31 POS. 6. The form of a Church is the gathering together of these visible Saints and combining and uniting them into one body by the form of a holy Covenant Deut. 29.1.10 11 12. by which is plainly shewed that a company of people become Gods people that is a Church by entring into Covenant with God If it be said they were a Church before yet that was when the Church of the Jewes was constituted in Abrahams Family by Covenant p. 37 POS. 7. Every Member at his admission doth promise to give himself as to the Lord to be guided by him so to the Church to be guided by them which is no more then the Members of the Church of Macedonia did in a parallel case 2 Cor. 8.5 p. 44 POS. 8. This particular Congregation is a Church before it have Officers Acts 2.47 p. 45 POS. 9. She hath also full and free power to choose her own Officers without the help of Synod Classis or Presbyterie Act. 1.15 6.3 14.23 p. 46 POS. 10. The particular Congregation though they want Officers have power and authority to ordain Officers as the children of Israel did put their hands upon the Levites Numb 8.9 10. p. 52 POS. 11. When the Apostles were sent out by Christ there was no mention of Ordination in that Commission of theirs but only of teaching and baptizing Mar. 16.15 Mat. 28.19 20. If ordination of Ministers had been such a speciall work there would belike have been some mention of in in their Commission p. 56 POS. 12. The Church hath power to censure her Officers if she see just occasion Col. 4.17 p. 58 POS. 13. These Officers are to be maintained by contribution every Lords Day 1 Cor. 16.1 p. 60 POS. 14. The great Mountain burning with fire cast into the Sea upon the sounding of the second Trumpet Rev. 8.8 9. is applied by some good Writers to those times in which Constantine brought settled endowments into the Church p. 68 POS. 15. There must be in the Church Teachers distinct from Pastors as Apostles are distinct from Euangelists Ephes 4.11 p. 69 POS. 16. This particular Congregation is Sion which God loveth and he hath promised to be present Mat. 18.20 p. 71 POS. 17. So long as a Believen doth not joyn himself to some particular Congregation he is without in the Apostles sense 1 Cor. 5.12 p. 74 POS. 18. The Elders are not Lords over Gods heritage 1 Pet. 5.3 nor do exercise authority as the Kings and Princes of the earth do remembring our Saviours lesson Mat. 20.25 26. Luke 22.25 26. p. 78 POS. 19. The Power of Government is expresly given to the Church where we are bidden Hear the Church which is a particular Congregation Mat. 18. p. 85 POS. 20. Matth. 16.19 Christ directeth his Speech not to Peter alone but to all the Disciples also for to them all was the Question propounded by Christ vers 15. Nor to them as generall Officers of the Churches for that Commission was not yet given them but as Disciples and Believers p. 90 POS. 21. 1 Cor. 5. Paul himself though an extraordinary Officer yet would not take upon him to excommunicate the incestuous person without the Church but sends to them exhorting them to do it and reproves the Brethren of the Church of Corinth as well as the Elders that they did no sooner put him away p. 95 POS. 22. The Lord Jesus reproving the Angel of Pergamus for suffering Balaamites sends his Epistle not only to the Angel but to the Church The Spirit saith not only to the Angel but to the churches Rev. 2.11 And the Church-members are seen by John in a vision sitting on Thrones clothed with white raiment having on their heads crownes of gold Rev. 4.14 Now thrones and crownes are Ensignes of Authority and governing power p. 101 POS. 23. The particular Congregation takes Christ for her only spirituall Prophet Priest and King Deut. 18.15 Acts 7.37 Psal 110.4 Heb. 5.4 Isa 9.6 7. Rev. 15.3 p. 104 POS. 24. Christ left but one way of Discipline for all churches which in the Essentialls of it is unchangeable and to be kept till the appearing of Christ 1 Tim. 6.13 14. p. 107 POS. 25. The Church or the Ministers thereof must not be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Pet. 4. And therefore the Minister must not perform a Ministeriall act to another Congregation Acts 20.28 1 Pet. 5.1 2. p. 111 POS. 26. Gifted men viz. so reputed by competent Judges though not called to the Ministery nor intended for it may preach They that were scattered abroad upon the Persecution which arose about Stephen were not Church-officers at least not all of them yet these men did preach the Word and Philip which was but a Deacon preached without the calling or privity of the Apostles Acts 11.19 8.14 p. 118 POS. 27. Jehosaphat sent Princes who were neither Ministers nor intended so to be to teach with the Priests and Levites viz. at least to incourage the people to hearken to the Priests and Levites 2 Chron. 17.7 8 9. as Jehosaphat did 2 Chron. 20.20 yea and was their mouth to God in Prayer vers 2.5 to 13. As we conceive something in that prophesying 1 Cor. 1.4 to be extraordinary so we conceive it to be ordinary that some private men grown Christians of able gifts who may have received a gift of Prophecy need no more extraordinary calling for them to Prophesie in the Churches then for Jehosaphat and his Princes to prophesie in the Church of Israel p. ibid. A Defence of certain Positions and Scriptures against an examination thereof by R.H. in which they are charged to be faultie POSITION I. GAthering of Churches in the Name of Christ See almost the same Argument verbatim in answer from New England to 32. q. p. 35. and setting up of Church-Ordinances cannot be unlawfull for want of a Commandement from Man as appeareth by the Doctrine and Practice of the Apostles Acts 4.19 5.29 THe Apostles never taught or practised to gather or separate some Christians from others one part of this true Church Answer and another part of that especially persons which themselves converted not to make a purer Church neither with nor without the Magistrates Authority THe Apostles both taught and practised the separating of some Jewes
done and with consent Answ No such order can be expected where no such order hath been wont to be exercised If any godly person hath removed from one Countrey to another and planted himselfe in Manchester have the Ministers or people whom he left sent after him or challenged him as theirs Or have the Ministers or people whom he hath come to rejected him as none of theirs because not orderly delivered into their hands Suppose the end of his removall was communion with a better people or better ministery Doth this make it the worse or more unwarrantable Is it lawfull to remove to a fatter soile when the place a man lives in is more barren Is it lawfull to remove to a purer aire when the aire one hath lived in is worse and distempers the body And is it not lawfull to remove to a purer Church The purer any Church is doth not Christ take the more delight in it And doth he not desire to be there most And why may not persons desire to plant themselves where Christ gives most of his presence And if one man may unite to such a Church that is purer may not many agree together to make such a Church that may be purer And this is all the gathering of Churches that we know of that is either taught or practised But the exception is That there is a removall of persons to other Churches without the removall of their habitations But why should this be blamed 1. If distinction of Parishes by bounds and limits be not Jure divino where is then the fault Selden of Tithes 2. Was there not liberty within this very Kingdome fromerly for persons to pay their tythes to what Minister they pleased And consequently they were not tied to the Parish they lived in but might chuse their own society and Pastor and hence it is that there are some pieces of Parishes in some places six or eight miles distant from other parts of it and whole Parishes betwixt Why therefore now should there be an abridgement 3. There are many inconveniences both to Minister and people arising hence 1. The Pastors of Parish Churches are onely at certainty what houses they have under their Ministery not what persons for they may goe which way they will leaving their houses but their houses and lands are sixed and they shall alwayes find them there 2. The members of these Churches though they have been bred up under the wing of such Churches and Pastors thereof and have taken a love and liking to the same yet if they remove from their habitation but a stones cast sometimes they must be broken off thereby from such Churches in point of Membership 3. A mans habitation may be neerer to some Church that is out of that parish and so far off from his own Parish Church that he cannot conveniently repaire thereunto must he yet be bound to his own Parish Church by his habitation 4. Suppose a man have many houses in severall Parishes and would desire sometimes to live in one and sometimes in another must he needs alter his Church membership as oft as he changeth his habitation Or can he be a member in all the Parishes where he hath houses The Apostles being not of men Answer nor by men but by Jesus Christ Gal. 1.1 b This was proper to the Apostles or Apostolick men Answ to 9. Pos p 76. T.W. to W.R. p. 67. did preach not onely without but against the peremptory command and Lawes of the Magigistrate Acts 4.17 18 21. 5.28 So did the ordinary Pastors and Teachers of those times as well as the Apostles and many of them were martyred for their labour which yet had not an immediate call from Christ as the Apostles had Reply Therefore it was not an Apostolick businesse as you would make it But you professe not such a latitude of opposition against Magistracy Answer We professe subjection to Jesus Christ Reply without any opposition at all against Magistracie though you would suggest the contrary onely thus If Magistrates command any thing contrary to Christ we rather chuse to deliver up our persons into their hands then our consciences and practices unto their commands And this we hope cannot be interpreted an opposing of Magistracy Nor doe you hold I suppose that our godly non-conformable Brethren suspended by the Bishops Answer or New-England Ministers deposed by their Churches to say nothing of Ministers deprived by the Parliament for Malignancie are bound by the Apostles example to execute their Ministery in the Churches notwithstanding such suspension or deposition c. We conceive you have not equally yoked the Bishops Reply New-England Churches and the Parliament together For 1. The Parliament challengeth not the execution of Ecclesiastical censure and yet can tell how to punish malignancie in Ministers or any others 2. The Bishops have laid claim to it and exercised it without any just or true title to it Therefore though godly non-conformable Ministers might in prudence give place to violence especially when their people deserted them and Pulpit doores were shut against them yet in conscience and in obedience to such suspensions and depositions they neither did neither ought to have done desist from the execution of their office 3. Ministers that are censured by a lawful power where ever it lies whether in their own Congregationall Churches or in a Presbytery for we will not dispute that now in this place whether the censure be inflicted justly or unjustly ought to submit thereto and forbeare the execution of their Ministery in that place till they be restored again else Ecclesiasticall government which is Christs ordinance in the Church as Civill government is in the Common-wealth might come to be undermined and subverted by pretence of unrighteousnesse in the managing of it or the peace of the Church be disturbed But wherein makes this against the Position We conceive that those very Pastors and Teachers of the Primitive Churches which continued to preach though the expresse command of the Heathen Magistrate was against it lest they should offend Christ by desisting were yet taken off from preaching when silenced by their own Churches and that upon the same ground lest they should offend Christ in persisting But you goe on to say Had you such an immediate commission sealed from Heaven Answer and such infallible direction of the Holy Ghost as the Apostles had you might more boldly imitate them therein especially if the case of living under a Christian Magistrate intending endeavouring and consusting with Divines about the Reformation of the Church and of living under a Heathen Magistrate were not much different 1. The warrantablenes ariseth not from the immediatnesse of the Commission Reply but from the truth and reality of it If a Commission be as really sealed by Christ and from heaven thought not so immediatly as the Apostles was yet it binds as truly to the execution of the work of it till it be called in as the immediate
there is any compact betwixt Ministers and the Church how much the Ministers must have before the work be begun but it is the consultation of the Church after the work hath been performed or a consideration for the yeer past when they all agree that if there be not enough in the slock of the Church to raise it up to an honourable allowance by the voluntary gift of each yet according as God hath blessed them Otherwise were it an agreement aforehand it would be as lawfull for two or three yeers as for one But how you will answer your mis-interpreting and mis-reporting of T. W. in the page you cite wherein he doth expresse himself as we have shewed we understand not POSITION XV. There must be in the Church Teachers This for substance is alledged by Answ to 32. q. p. 75. and many others distinct from Pastors as Apostles are distinct from Euangelists Ephes 4.11 That Text proves not the same distinction between them for he saith Answer Some Apostles and some Prophets c. but not some Pastors and some Teachers but some Pastors and Teachers or rather these Apostles these Prophets these Euangelists these Shepheards and Teachers which words seeme but to explicate one another as Shepheard and Bishop do 1 Pet. 2.25 You crosse the opinion of many Orthodox modern Writers Reply while you speak contradictorily to us for it is not our tenent alone but the judgement of many learned ones that they are distinct Offices Whether you translate some Apostles or these Apostles the matter is not weighty nor are you advantaged by it The greater question is who these Teachers be and what their work is whether they be School Doctors as Junius * Jun. Eccles lib. 2. cap. 5. p 1955 thinks and so their work to train up the youth of the Church in the knowledge of Arts and Sciences especially of Divinity for the service of the Church or whether they be Teachers of the whole Church and their work to doctrinate the Church by words of knowledge The latter seems to be more consonant to the Scripture then the former Rom. 12.7 8. 1 Cor. 12.8 And Zanchy Pareus Bucer and many others are of this judgement Zanchy's words are these There are only five orders of Ministers in the Church Zanc. de Feel milit gubernatione tom 8. p. â—4â— instituted by Christ and then under this Position are these words We acknowledge not more kindes of Ministers then the Apostle expresseth in Ephes 4.11 Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors Teachers The three first were not tied to places but were sometimes here and sometimes there either to gather Churches or to govern them to plant or to water them The two latter viz. Pastors and Teachers he would have to be set apart for the conservation and government of particular Churches as also for the augmentation and propagation of them Pareus upon Rom. 12.7 hath these words Now he under puts two kindes of prophecies the gift of teaching which is proper to the Doctor or Teacher the gift of exhorting which is proper to the Pastor of the Church for Paul in Ephes 4. distinguisheth Pastors and Teachers and the gifts of the Spirit were distinct for to some were given a most cleere revelation and understanding of doctrine these did attend to the explication of the heads of Religion and did form the faith of the Church to others was given a faculty of exhorting Bucer also upon Rom. 12.7 saith thus One man hath the gift of propecie another hath the gift of ministring so the person that teacheth having the gift of teaching in doctrine so the person that exhorteth the person that teacheth he makes distinct from the person that exhorteth endued with the gift of exhortation and then he mentions the Deacon and Ruling Elder as distinct with their gift from the rest So that if we do put any false glosse upon the Scriptures by mis-interpreting of Ephes 4.11 yet more modest language had becomed you brother seeing such Reverend Learned men whom your self so much honour have gone before us in the exposition POSITION XVI This particular Congregation is Sion This Text is frequently alledged in answ to 32. q. and others which God loveth and he hath promised to be present Matth. 18.20 No Sir it is not Sion but one of the assemblies of Sion Isai 4.5 Answer The Hebrewes which were divided in many Congregations are not said to be come into many mount Sions but to Mount Sion Heb. 12. The Scripture warrants not the expression of an hundred or a thousand Sions Sion was a mountain contiguous unto Moriah Reply upon which the Temple was built in which God vouchsafed a speciall presence and unto which the Tribes went up and by a Metonymie it is frequently put for the Temple that was built neer to it and by another Metonymie it is put for the people that repaired thither and assembled there and so for the Church of the Jewes which Church in the times of the old Testament consisted of many assemblies and yet it self was but one Church and the Temple also was but one which was called Sion and so Sion while the Temple was to stand and the Church of the Jewes was to continue was but one But in the times of the Gospel there were to be no visible Temples where God would dwell but the visible Church 2 Cor. 6.16 and the visible Church is Congregationall and not Nationall much lesse universall as hath been proved therefore the Congregationall church is Sion therefore the speciall place of Gods presence Yet this hinders not but that the language of the old Testament when it speaks of things of the new Testament may be used in the old Testament yea in the new also as in Zach. 14.19 Isai 66.20 21. So when Sion in the new Testament is spoken of in Isaiah 4.5 there may be an allusion in phrase and manner of speaking to Sion in the old Testament We may as well reade of the assemblies of Sion though there be no such thing but each assemblie is Sion as of the Feast of Tabernacles when yet in the dayes of the Gospel there is no such thing as a feast of Tabernacles but it is spoken by way of allusion the things of the new Testament are set forth to us under the shadowes of the old therefore because Sion was then but one it is spoken of as one still and yet it is more then one Now that there are many mounts Sions your self doth really confesse though in words you contradict it 1. We know you hold that the Church of the Jews in the dayes of the old Yestament was called Sion 2. We know you hold that the visible Church in the dayes of the Gospel is Sion 3. Is it not manifest therefore that you hold that look how many visible churches there are in the times of the Gospel so many Sions there are Your own words are that the Hebrews which were divided in many Congregations
Church that hath all Officers compleat For the understanding of which we will lay down certain Positions 1. No Believer as a Believer may challenge a liberty to preach or prophesie publikely For though it were with Moses to be wished that all the Lords people were Prophets Numb 11. and that the Lord would put his Spirit upon them yet for as much as God hath not indowed all them with parts fir for the work all may not prophesie some there are that have need of milk Heb. 5.13 because they are unskilfull in the word of righteousnesse for they are babes and so not able to prophesie 2. No Church-member though a Brother meerly as a Church-member may challenge a liberty of publike prophesie This appears because the Apostle exhorts the Corinthians to strive after ablitie to prophesie 1 Cor. 14.1 which shewes that they might not prophesie meerly in the capacity of Church-members for if so God would have entailed abilities upon all the Fraternity of the visible Church at their first admission There were in the Church of Corinth some that occupied the room of the unlearned 1 Cor. 14.16 that expressed themselves no otherwise then by saying Amen with an audible voyce when those that possessed the room of the learned gave thanks as Tertullian and Justin Martyr tell us and therefore when the Apostle saith 1 Cor. 14.23 24. If all speak with tongues c. but if all prophesie c. he is not to be understood of the whole Fraternity but only of those that were in a capacity to speak with tongues and prophesie Now that all were not indowed with these gifts appeares 1 Cor. 12.10.29 3. Church-members upon whom God hath bestowed eminent parts that are able to divide the Word of God aright and to weild the sword of the Spirit with dexterous abilities may lawfully preach publikely in the Assembly of the Church This may appeare 1. From the end of gifts which is the use of them for the edification of others as well as of our selves Now private or mean gifts are of private use but publike or eminent gifts are of publike use When the young man told Moses that Eldad and Medad prophesied and Joshua exhorted Moses to forbid them it was because they exercised that office that was as they thought peculiar to Moses but Moses is well content Numb 11.29 I would saith he all the Lords people were Prophets and God would put his Spirit upon them ut contra nihil tantopere expetam quam ut singuli qui in populo Jehovae sunt eodemspiritu instrcti prophetare possint Jun. Paral. Appen par 3. p. 353. q. d. if God would put his Spirit upon all the people as well as upon my self they might all lawfully prophesie as well as my self for together with extraordinary gifts there went along an extraordinary call to exercise those gifts So the Apostle speaking of the exercise of prophesie Rom. 12.6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace which is given to us whether prophesie let us prophesie according to the proportion of fatith So that where there is the gift there may be a lawfull exercise of the gift in an orderly manner 2. That which Church-members not in Office nor intending Office may lawfully strive after that they may lawfully exercise being once obtained But Church-members may lawfully seek after an abilitie to prophesie publikely 1 Cor. 14.1 Follow after c. and v. 12. even so ye for as much as ye are zealous of spirituall gifts seek that ye may excell to the edifying of the Church Those that are fit to be instrumentall in a publike way must not be men of vulgar and triviall parts but must excell that they may edifie the Church the conclusion is some Church-members though not in Office nor intending Office may prophesie publikely 3. From a like necessity at this day of the exercise of acquired gifts with that the churches had in those times of the exercise of infused gifts If in those times when the Apostles did often visit the churches the Euangelists did water the churches and there were in the churches many Prophets that not only addicted themselves to the study of the Scriptures but were also extraordinarily many times assisted by the Spirit of God yet if a Brother that had a Revelation must have a liberty to utter his revelation for the edification of the Church how much more now when there are neither Aposiles to visit nor Euangelists to water nor Prophets extraordinarily gifted to expound the Word but in many Congregations not one teaching Officer in the most but one Minister indowed with acquired gifts if any Brother have an excellency of acquired parts he not only may but should be stirred up to inploy his talent as God shall offer occasion for the good of the Church 4. Church-members how ever eminently gifted may not presume to speak in the Church-assembly before they have a calling to the work by those whom it doth concern Paul though an Apostle did not offer to preach in the Synagogue at Antioch in Pisidia till the Rulers of the Synagogues had sent unto him for that end otherwise through the corruption of men there might be great confusion in the Church and the Officers much disturbed by the proud interposition of Exthusiastick spirits for such may arise in the purest Churches venting their frothy phantasmes tanquant ex tripode dicta as if they were the undoubted Oracles of God Now if there may be discerned a spirit of erroneous pride in the men that desire to speak they ought to be denied and admonished but if they be holy able humble men of whom the Church may presume that they will speak to edification in such a case the preaching officers must have a spirit of humility to give way unto them 1 Cor. 14.32 The spirit of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets that is the Prophets have a command of their spirits that they can easily give way to any to speak and themselves sit down as auditors provided they be such as expound divide and apply the Word profitably And that this is the meaning of the place appears by that which followes vers 33. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace Now we will consider your Arguments with which you endeavour to prove these Texts to be abused This Text cannot be generally understood of all that were scattered Answer your selves explain it of men not of women 1 Cor. 14. Of gifted men and called to that work by the Church not of ungifted and uncalled men yet the words in their indefinite latitude will prove the preaching as well of ungifted men and uncalled as others We understand not the Text of all as your self confesse Reply If it may be understood of any that were scattered being not Officers we have what we desire Will it follow The text taken in its indefinite latitude must needs be wrested therefore it is wrested by us who take
believers may be said to be WITHOUT in that sense page 74 75 76 1 Cor. 7.16 Gifted men or women may convert page 120 1 Cor. 11.19 The Church whether it is the place page 25 26 Vers 20. A church meeting in one place page 13-31 1 Cor. 14.1 2.3.33 All must covet the gift of prophecy page 121 124 V. 12.31 Such may page 128 1 Cor. 14.23 This is discussed fully there page 13 to 31 V. 32. Spirit of Prophets subject page 126 1 Cor. 12.8 Pastor and Teachers gifts distinct page 70 1 Cor. 12.9.29 All had not all gifts page 125 V. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Helps put for Deacons page 63 1 Cor. 14.1.3 Prophecying hath something ordinary something extraordinary p. 118 Vers 34. Women to be silent in your churches What churches means he p. 21 Not to use power in churches page 91 95 1 Cor. 15.6 Christ appeared to five hundred brethren at once in Jerusalem page 11 1 Cor. 16.1 2 Cor. 8.1 Churches whether Nationall churches page 21 to 31 1 Cor. 16.1 Ministers to be maintained by the churches contributions every first day scanned page 60 61 Vers 1.2 Every first dayes contribution proved page 64 Qu. Whether those collections were to cease page 65 Hence for maintaining the Ministers proved page 66 2 CORINTH 2.9 Church excommunicates and not Paul alone page 97 2 Cor. 3.1 Letters of recommendation to others page 117 2 Cor. 6.16 A Church is Gods Temple page 71 2 Cor. 8.5 Such give themselves to the Lord and to them page 44 2 Cor. 8.18 19. Many churches may choose one to do them service page 30 GALATIANS 3.16 17. And in thy seed not to page 42 Gal. 5.9.12.15 Church to cut off offenfenders page 95 Gal. 6.6 Opening the communicating to Ministers page 63 EPHESIANS 2.22 A house of stones united page 38 Eph. 4.11 Teachers and Pastors are distinct page 69 Eph. 5.25 26. Is of the Church mysticall page 28 PHILIPPIANS 1.7 Churches to be of reputed Saints page 32 Phil. 4.15 Giving and receiving are acts of communion page 63 COLOSSIANS 4.17 A Church hath power to censure her officers page 58 59 1 TIMOTHY 1.20 Whether Paul alone excommunicated Hymeneus page 96 1. Tim. 3.8 Deacons office is not temporary page 63 1 Tim. 3.10 One unofficed may preach page 58 1 Tim. 4.14 Elders laid on hands page 96 1 Tim. 5.17 Whether ruling Elders must be maintained by the Church page 60 1 Tim. 6.13 14. That Christ left but one way of Church discipline which must be kept to the end of the world page 107 2 TIMOTHY 1.6 Whether Paul laid on hands alone page 96 JAMES 1.1 with Jam. 2.2 Whether all the twelve Tribes were one Church or how called your Synagogues page 18 19 1 PETER 2.5 A Church of living stones page 36 1 Pet. 2.25 Shepheard and Bishop there are one and the same page 69 1 Pet. 4.14 Ministers not to be Bishops in anothers Dioces page 111 1 Pet. 5.1 Apostles were Elders of all Churches page 46 1 Pet. 5.3 Elders are not Lords over Gods Heritage page 78 3 d. Epist JOHN vers 9. Diotrephes that loved preeminence how blamed page 78 81 REVELATIONS 1.6 Kings and Priests distinguished page 127 Rev. 2.11 The Spirit speaks not to the Angel alone but also to the churches page 101 Rev. 4.14 The Church hath Crownes which implies it hath authority ibid. Rev. 8.8 9. A great Mountain cast into the Sea what it means page 68 Rev. 13.1 15.2 Sea put for the Church or the Churches Religion page 68 Rev. 15.3 Christ is the King of the Church page 104 Rev. 21.27 Rev. 22.14 Nothing shall enter into the Holy City the Church that defileth page 38 Some Greek words and phrases opened herein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Whether in one place or in one minde page 18 20 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Kak Synagoga and Hebrew Gnedah Kahal What page 24 25 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Every first day cleared 1 Cor. 16.1 2. page 65 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I have judged to deliver What page 97 98 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For this I wrote page 99 Errata PAge 35. line 4. à fine reade converted p. 36. l. 5. à fine given Paul r. given by Paul p. 37. l. 9. r. 1 Cor. 1.5 p. 49. l. 10. à fine 2 3 23. dele 23. p. 52. l. 4. à fine 19.2 W. r. 19.2 p. 65. l. 9. Matth. 18. r. 28. p. 83. circa med Luke 24. r. 14. p. 110. l. 4. r. presidents p. 114. circa med 2 Thes r. 1 Thes p. 121. r. 1 Cor. 14.1.3 FINIS
A DEFENCE Of sundry POSITIONS And Scriptures alledged to justifie the Congregationall-way charged at first to be weak therein impertinent and unsufficient By R. H. M.A. of Magd. Col. Cambr. in his Examination of them But upon further Examination cleerly manifested to be Sufficient Pertinent and full of Power By Samuel Eaton Teacher AND Timothy Taylor Pastor Of The Church in Duckenfield in Cheshire Isai 26.12 13. LORD thou wilt ordaine peace for us for even thou hast wrought all our works in us O LORD our God other lords besides thee have had dominion over us but by thee only will we make mention of thy Name Published according to Order LONDON Printed by Matthew Simmons for Henry Overton and are to be sold at his shop in Popes-head Alley 1645. To the Christian Reader IT was not our purpose when these Examinations of our Reverend and beloved Brother and neighbour came forth to have made any Reply to them First because we thought there was that already published to the world on both sides which was more weighty then either the Examinations or Answer to them were like to be deemed Secondly because we apprehended some other persons rather called to this Work then our selves because their Positions and Scriptures brought by them are professedly and nominally opposed as the margent declares Thirdly because we were unwilling to ingage our selves or others in the Controversie further then we should be compelled knowing it to be one evill under the Sun in men and perhaps in some good men that they will strive for Victory rather then for Truth And as it is with an unyeelding spirit it will contend for the-last word So it is in publishing of books who shall Print last in his own Cause We chose therefore rather to practise in silence according to our own light and quietly to follow the Work we are called to in these parts then to implead those that should plead against the Way we walk in Therefore when the Examinations first came down though we read them yet we minded not to answer them for three moneths almost the thoughts of intermedling in the Work now effected by us slept with us At last we were awakened to consider what was fit to be done by us And after some consultation thought our selves bound to vindicate wronged Scriptures Positions Persons that which bred a change in our mind was First an expectation and earnest desire in these parts that something might be answered thereunto or the Cause yeelded Secondly the eyes of many were upon us rather then upon others First because the Author of the Examinations is our neighbour Secondly because many of these things have been discussed betwixt him and us Thirdly because it is thought that some of the Positions have been taken up by him as in discourse they fell from us Fourthly because it is believed by many that there is so much strength in the Examinations or weaknesse in us that we cannot answer them Fifthly because the Examinations are magnified in Pulpits Lastly because the Person whom we most eyed to have vindicated the Scriptures and Assertions built upon them we heare is called away out of the kingdome Hereupon we came to set upon the Work And our request good Reader is this that the plainnesse of the style may be passed over and all weaknesse in expression and if there be any strength of Argument that it be kindly accepted for the truths sake We professe to be friends to the Truth so farre as we know it and shall think it the worst work that ever we did in our lives if we should make any to erre from the Truth We intreat God as we are able to lead both thee and us into all truth S. E. T. T. Mr. Prynne his Judgement touching the only and speediest way for the present Reformation in his last Book called A Vindication page 57. ANd if our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that Catalogue of scandalous Sins and sinners they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe temporall Lawes and Punishments against the same and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duly executed inflicted I am confident that this would work a greater Reformation in our Church and State in one half yeer then all the Church-discipline and censures now so eagerly contested for will do in an age and will be the only true way and speediest course to reform both Church and State at once which I hope the Parliament will consider of and take care that our Ministers like the Bishops formerly may not now be taken up with ruling and governing but preaching and instructing which is work enough wholly to ingrosse their time and thoughts To our Reverend Brother the EXAMINER Good Brother THough we often encountered one another within private walls yet we little thought to have been Antagonists in print you have provoked us to it and so have those that are either so ingaged to your person or to your Examinations as to make their boast of them We think you will confesse our candor in proceeding we have not stept out of the way to intermeddle with by-standers or by-matters nor have we racked any thing we intreat the like usage from you Take up the pith and substance of the Argument and let alone expressions and matters of that nature and shew us our errour and we shall not be offended but thankfull That deep heavie charge in the first part of your Preface whether it might have been spared till you had seen how you had sped we leave for you to consider As also whether you had honoured your self more and wronged us lesse if your Examinations had come forth without so cutting and stinging a censure Beware of giving such blowes again in words and do it if you can in the weight of your Arguments and you shall be blamelesse We will beare it and amend by it as being Your loving Brethren SAMUEL EATON TIMOTHY TAYLOR The Contents of the Book The Scriptures opened or alledged in this Treatise you have in a Table at the end thereof and the page wherein they are cited The POSITIONS as they are laid down by Mr. R. H. in his Examination of them are the summe and substance of the whole Book as being the Subject herein debated whereof the most of them are explained and defended some in some proofs cited are mistaken as Position 20 and 25. The POSITIONS are these in order following POSITION 1. GAthering of Churches in the name of Christ and setting up of Church-ordinances cannot be unlawfull for want of a Commandement from man as appeareth by the Doctrine and Practice of the Apostles Acts 4.19 5.29 page 1 POSIT 2. Seven eight or nine may make a Church In Adams and Noahs time there was not above seven or eight will you deny them the being of a Church What will you make of Christ and of his Family which were not above twelve besides himself and of the first
from other Jewes Reply and gathering them into a Christian Church while yet the Jewish Church was not dissolved for they ceased not to be a Church of God till the body of them pertinaciously and desperatly rejected Christ Therefore they preached to the Jewes first and thought themselves bound so to doe because they were the people of God Acts 11.19 13.46 And yet they had commanded some to separate from the rest as your selfe acknowledge Acts 2.40 And their communion they had with them in Jewish worships shews that they counted them a true Church And some think that their Church state ceased not while their Temple stood And yet before that time many Jewes were gathered into many Christian Churches as both the Acts of the Apostles and their Epistles doe declare And if they might gather out of one Church they might as lawfully have gathered out of twenty or an hundred had there been so many at that time Secondly if the Apostles never taught nor practised such a thing what warrant then have our brethren for their Presbyterian Church which is gathered out of many Churches For they Interpret Matth. 18.17 Tell the Church of a Presbyterian Church which consists of the Elders of many Churches Thirdly why may not one Church be gathered of the members of many Churches as well as many Churches consist of the members of one Church For we read that the Church at Jerusalem was scattered upon Stevens persecution and we read not that they returned again but fell into membership with other Churches as is probable which were planted in severall parts of the world Fourthly such a Church which consists of the members of many other true Churches hath formerly been without exception in the dayes of the Prelates how comes it now to be questioned For at least fourteen yeares since such a Church was extant in Wiâ—â—all in Cheshire the vocall covenant being onely wanting which consisted of the choycest Christians of many Parishes who met constantly together upon the Lords day and enjoyed the Word and Seales of the Covenant and maintained a Pastor to dispense the same unto them and never or very rarely repaired to such Parishes where their habitations were And we think it cannot be denied but Mr. John Angiers Church at Denton in Lancashire hath of long time been such and many other such there have been besides And it was accounted an high happinesse to have liberty to make such a Church but was never accounted by the godly sinfull before But if you should answer That the Church consists of such as lived within such a Parish or Chappell and that the rest were strangers We reply If assembling constantly together and participating in all the Ordinances that the rest doe partake of and contributing with the rest in the maintenance of the Minister of such a place and an adhering rather to such a Minister and people then to any other in affection and action if all these together make members of a Church then these persons of other Parishes were not strangers but members and with the rest made such Churches except it shall be said that habitation alone in other Parishes when all the other are wanting makes membership and constitutes Churches which some of our brethren who are Presbyterians have and doe deny Fifthly are not some Parish Churches constituted sometimes of members of other Parish Churches when many persons have left their own places and removed into other Parishes without any consent Yet this hath been judged pious at least honest sometimes upon one ground and somtimes upon another some to have liberty of conscience in such places whither they have removed others to have better preaching others to meet with better society and others for better worldly accommodation What Christian knoweth not well that this hath been common Sixthly that a Church may consist of persons that have been members of other Churches if such persons have been orderly dismissed from such Churches and have come away with consent will be granted of all For none hold Church-membership to be undissolveable The question then will be Whether the members of Churches may depart without consent 1. According to the present constitution of Churches they may For they come in without consent meerly by removing their habitations therefore they may so depart 2. If consent must be had from whom must it be sought From the people or from the Minister That the people have any power either to give or with-hold their consent hath not been granted heretofore That the Ministers consent should be necessary for the departing of every member when yet himselfe it may be hath had his entrance amongst them without their consent seemes to be unreasonable 3. Suppose consent hath been sought and cannot be obtained may not members withdraw their membership in some cases without consent Suppose some Ordinance be corruptly dispensed without all hope of redresse and that men must partake therein without having any power so much as to witnesse against such corruptions unlesse they will be accounted factious and disturbers of the Churches peace or that by remaining where such corruptions are they be in danger to be leavened with the corrupt lump of such a Church of which they be members 1 Cor. 5.6 what must they now doe Doth not that Rule that bids a Church purge out one person that may endanger the leavening of the whole lump when there are no other means to prevent such an evill give warrant to every member that is endangered to be leavened by the lump to withdraw from such a lump because power to purge out the lump they have none when there is no other means to prevent the evill 2 Cor. 13.10 Church membership is for edification of the members not for destruction But you stumble at this because they converted them not To which we reply Persons whom the Apostles converted were ordinarily committed to others to be further edified and the ordinary Pastors and Elders of the primitive times did almost perpetually build upon anothers foundation The persons that watered for the most part were not the same that planted In Acts 11.20 21. we read of a great conversion wrought by the preaching of the scattered Disciples but we read not that they were gathered into Church-state till Barnabas was sent unto them and both Barnabas and Paul assembled with that Church and taught it which yet they converted not And in Acts 19.1 9. Paul found twelve Disciples converted to his hand though not fully instructed and gathered them into the Church which he planted at Ephesus But Brother how comes this to be a stone to stumble at If you hold a succession of Pastors in the same Church the successors may feed a flock which their predecessors converted and not themselves And if you hold transplantation of members from one Church to another then they may feed the members which were of other Churches which themselves converted not But you will say This must be orderly
doth 2. We allow the case to be much different For when we live under a Christian Magistrate inteuding and endeavouring Reformation we are raised up unto an expectation of having all the wayes of Christ countenanced and confirmed by his authoritie which would be a very blessed thing which we have no such ground to look for living under a Heathen Magistrate But how the case is different in your sense we understand not For the Christianity of the Magistrate or his piety and sedulity in intending and endeavouring Reformation cannot take any person or persons off from their dutie which they would be bound unto if a Heathen Magistrate bore sway The Magistrate and the Ministers and the people must each doe their part because each stands engaged for himselfe to Jesus Christ unto the work of his own place The impediments that come from any unto other cannot be a discharge unto any Would our Brethren in New England allow a Presbyterian Church Answer or but a new Independent Church to be erected in New England against the will and mind of the Magistrates and Churches there 1 T. W. to W.R. p. 31. 1. The question is not what they would allow Reply but what a company of people planted there which cannot without unfaithfulnesse to their own light be subject to any other government save the Presbyterian ought to doe Whether if their livelihood lie there and that they cannot remove they are not bound to keep Faith and a good Conscience what ever it be that they suffer for it 2. Our beliefe of New England is this that they would suffer the godly and peaceable to live amongst them though they disser in point of Church-government from them Because so farre as we could ever learn they never banished any but unpeaceablenesse together with desperate erroneousnesse was the cause of it Our Brethren at London I heare doe hold it at least unseasonable Answer to gather Churches now how their opinion and yours are reconcileable I see not If you had said Reply some of them did once think it unseasonable you had not much missed it But what crossing is in this which should need a reconciliation The Position saith it cannot be unlawfull the Brethren say it was unseasonable for that time Many things may be unseasonable at least in opinion and yet not unlawfull It may be the Brownists Answer Anabaptists Antinomians Familists and other grosse Hereticks and Schismaticks in old or new England doe also pretend the Doctrine and practice of the Apostles for the setting up of their Churches yet our godly and conscientious Divines doe therein oppose them If grosse Heretikes and Schismaticks doe so pretend Reply they must be found to be liers and so their practice will be found to be unwarrantable whether they have or have not the commandement of man yet this will hinder nothing but that those which not in pretence but in truth have the Doctrine and practise of the Apostles with them may lawfully practise according to it though they want the commandement of man to warrant it The false Apostles pretended to be true Apostles but the Church of Ephesus tried them and found them liers and rejected them and yet accepted of those that were Apostles of Christ indeed POSITION II. Seven eight or nine may make a Church In Adams and Noahs time there was not above seven or eight will you deny them the being of a Church What will you make of Christ and of his Family which were not above twelve besides himselfe and of the first foundationals of the Church of Ephesus which were about twelve The number in the first beginning of the greatest Church was small enough in comparison Acts 1.15 The case of Adam and Noah was extraordinary Answer there were no more in the world and therefore could be no more in the Church You grant in an extraordinary case seven eight Reply or nine may make a Church The Position saith not that more may not make a Church but if there be but so many the truth and being of a Church cannot be denied them We say further that such a number may but make a Church in the first foundation or while there be no more persons sitted for membership For when more Saints by calling offer themselves they are to be received and so the Church will be increased Acts 19.7 8 9 18.19 20. Adam and his wife Answer and first sonnes yea Adam himselfe was the Church if then there was any yet you hold not that two or three yea one may make a Church We conceive that the Church is Christs body Reply and that every body consists of members If all were one member where were the body How therefore one Adam could have been a Church we understand not Put this we hold that look how few have ever made a Church since the beginning of the world the same number may still make a Church And the reason is because God hath not precisely determined what number doth make a Church Cain lawfully married his own sister may other men doe the like Answer Have we not a manifest prohibition of such marriages in the Scripture Reply so that though sometimes they were lawfull yet now they are not lawfull But what Scripture have you against this that what number of beleevers have formerly been a Church such a number may yet be a Church And no greater number is required to the simple being of a Church Twelve are more then seven or eight Answer and an hundred and twenty are a competent number yet it appeareth not that they were called or counted a Church till they were more increased First Reply though twelve be more then seven or eight yet twelve is not more in the truth of constitution of a Church then seven or eight Is there more of the essence of a Church in twelve then in seven or eight Except you mean it so you declare onely in saying so that you can number twelve And if you so understand it we shall demand proof of you for it Secondly the Scripture determines not what number is competent and what not competent to the being of a Church How come you then so to passe your verdict about it when further you adde That it appeares not they were called or accounted a Church till they were more increased that is till those three thousand persons were added to them Acts 2.41 If so are you not then the more presumptuous in saying that an hundred and twenty are a competent number to make a Church Notwithstanding if you will you may see them a Church before they were so increased For they performed one great act of a Church in electing an Officer to be over the Church Acts 1.23 And when three thousand were added to them they came into their state and if their state were not Church state then neither were they made a Church by this addition for let three thousand be added to no Church and they are still no Church
which to affirme were slat against the Scripture Acts 2.47 If there were no more Beleevers in Ephesus then twelve as there was Answer viz Aquila and Priscilla which knew no more then Johns Baptisme Acts 18.26 with 24.25 if not others yet there were more in ferusalem then an hundred and twenty even five hundred brethren at once c 1 Cor. 15.6 First though Aquila and Priscilla were at Ephesus Reply yet they were but sojourners there as they were also in many other places sometimes at Rome sometimes at Corinth as appeares from Acts 18.2 Rom. 16.3 But to what place they did belong is not certain Secondly your five hundred brethren at Jerusalem is as slightly collected from 1 Cor. 15.6 For 1. doth the Apostle say that he was seen of those five hundred in Jerusalem He shewed himselfe in Galilee and some other places as well as in Jerusalem 2. Though the place of manifesting himselfe might be Jerusalem must the persons therefore be of Jerusalem Why not appertaining unto Judea Or suppose of Jerusalem why might they not be dispersed before Christs ascension For present afterwards when they chose an Apostle they were not which was yet a Church action and without doubt the major part of the Church would have been present at it Adam and Noah with their Families Answer if they were Churches they were but Domesticall Churches not Congregationall Domesticall Churches enjoying Congregationall Ordinances Reply and congregationall Churches are not divers species of Churches neither doe they differ in their nature or kind but in quantity as one Congregation differeth from another as one small Countrey Chappell differeth from a numerous Towne Church What will ye make of Christ and his Disciples Answer a Church distinct from the Jewish You know Christ did not make a new Church or gather men into it but lived and died a member of the Jewish Church d Answer to to 32. q. p. 14. Had they been called a Church as some housholds are in the new Testament e Phile. 2. witnes T.W. to W.R. you had had some more pretext and yet they are but a Domesticall Church c. 1. Whether Christ died a member of the Jewish Church Reply is questionable But that he gathered certain persons to him and that he instituted Baptisme and the Supper amongst them is most certain which were Ordinances of the Gospel Church and he either thereby prepared them for or laid the foundation of a Gospel Church before his death For immediatly after his ascension they were a Gospel Church as appeareth from Acts 1.14 15. 2. For the denomination of Church we passe not much whether we meet with it or not provided that we find the reality of a Church among any persons 3. Many Domesticall Churches may be in one Congregationall in your sense but not in ours We deny and put you to prove that two or three converted in a Family enjoying some Christian Ordinances but no Church Ordinances are called a Church It is an Argument you will not own Answer seven eight twelve may make a Domesticall Church therefore they may make a Congregationall We acknowledge not any such distinction of Congregationall Church Reply and Domesticall as you presse after But say That the foundation of a Congregationall Church may be laid in one Family and may spread unto many It may be laid in seven or eight and may grow up to an hundred or a thousand or to as many as can meet together constantly unto edification in one place The Church in Abrahams Family was the same which was in the Families of all his sonnes and in the Families of their children after them which afterwards grew up into a nation And though the Gospel Church is not now Nationall as the Jewish was yet a congregation of many Families may spring out of a Church of one Family more easily then a Nation did formerly And if seven eight or twelve may not make a congregationall Church in our apprehension what have you been consuting all this while If seven or eight may make a Church Answer then two hundred persons in a Citie may well make twenty distinct Churches and by consequence so many Independent Judieatures First this collection is made to bring an Odium upon congregationall Churches but it may be thus retorted foure or five in a house may make a family therefore three hundred in an house may make sixtie distinct families Foure or five in a family may make a Domestick Church say you then three hundred in a family may make sixty Domestick Churches two thousand in a Field may make an Army therefore two hundred thousand in a Field may make ten distinct Armies under so many independent Generals Secondly we have declared our selves before that seven or eight may make a Church in the first foundation and whilst there are no more persons fitted and that as more in that place shall be converted the Church of them is to be increased And we are utterly against the unnecessary multiplication of Churches as conceiving such small Churches inconsistent to Christs ends which is edification by Pastors Teachers Ruling Elders Deacons which he hath given to his Church But that a Church of seven or eight should require so many Officers or be able to maintain them we cannot understand And we perceive from the patternes presented in the New Testament that Churches in cities which at first were small grew great by the daily addition of others to them Acts 1.14.15 with Acts 2.41 19.7 8 9 with 18 19 20. Acts 20.17.28 So that we would not have beleevers of one citie be of so many Churches if one congregation will conveniently hold them except there be some eminent reason for it But though there should be many Churches consisting of a few members yet without Officers amongst them we doe not assert them to be Independent Judicatures POSITION III. A visible Church in the new Testament consists of no more in number then may meet in one place in one Congegation The like you have Answer to 32 q p. 9. 1 Corinth 11.20 14.23 If you seek for Congregations meeting for prayer hearing the Word Answer Sacraments in one place or that they were called by the name of Church or that all Beleevers in some Cities and Countries when they might did meet in one place I will not contend We plead for congregations meeting together Reply not for prayer hearing the Word Sacraments alone but for the executing of censures also 1 Cor. 5.4 which you leave out as if Church censures belonged not to congregations as those Ordinances you mention do And we say that there is no sacred Worship or Institution prescribed in the Gospel which may not be observed to have been exercised in or appertained unto the congregations And these congregations are called Churches in the Scripture And further we say not onely that all beleevers in some cities did meet together in one place but that there can no instance be
of the Church that is of the church he is of Not forsaking the assembling of your selves together that is no one with his own church that he is of or each church with it self But there is no need of any such figure in the Texts which wee alledge but the literall sense may passe and in some places must passe or there will be no sense For 1. The persons which wee say came together they might do it they were neither so many nor so remote but they might And if the Holy Ghost say they did wee must believe it and not seek a figure when wee are not enforced to it 2. The Text in 1 Cor. 14.23 saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when the whole church comes together Now let the Reader judge whether any of your Texts have any such fulness of words in them to sway to a meeting in one place as this one Text hath which we have brought Some of your own side have been convinced with the evidence of this Text that the church of Corinth was but one congregation and came together into one place Especially Answer seeing the Apostle writes to the Achaians 2 Cor. 1.1 1 Cor. 16.1 with 2 Cor. 9.2 11.10 Now there were other churches in that Region at least two Corinth and Cenchrea Rom. 16.1 To say nothing of the church whereof Gaius the Corinthian was the Host 1. Reply Paul writes to the Achaians no otherwise then hee doth to the Saints which call on the name of the Lord Jesus every where 1 Cor. 1.1 with 2 Cor. 1.1 2. Hee writes not to them as making one church with the Corinthians for hee mentioneth them with a note of distinction from the Corinthians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The places which you would have compared will not enforce any such thing For hee might have a scope that the other churches in Achaia from the Epistle hee sent to Corinth which they were to peruse as the Laodicean church was to reade the Epistle written to the Colossians should be stirred up to the same duty of contribution c. So that the onenesse of the Congregation of the church of Corinth is not yet infringed 4. Doth the Apostle write to the Achaians and were there in that Region two churches at least Corinth and Cenchrea why then doth not the Apostle say To the Churches of Achaia as in all other such cases he doth To the churches of Galatia The churches of Judea Macedonia Asia Why is the church of Corinth mentioned and the church at Genchrea wholly silenced in the first Epistle and not mentioned directly and by name in the second Hence there is mention of churches to which the women hee writes to for he saith Your women not women or all women did resort Answer Or how else could they keep selence in the churches 1 Cor. 14.34 1. These Epistles were written for the use and direction of all churches and therefore the Apostle nameth churches Reply because this was to be a standing rule for all churches and by your women the Corinthian women were primarily meant to whom the Epistle was sent yet in regard of use not they alone but they with the women of Achaia and all that call on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place It was a command intended for universall direction for the women of all other churches 2. Women were wont to go from one church to another upon occasion as Rom. 16.1 Phebe from Cenchrea went to Rome so might the Corinthian women go to other churches and in all churches must keep silence 3. Though it he said your women yet it is not said your churches but in the churches that is churches every where and the verse before gives some light hereto For hee had said As in all the churches of the Saints And he addes Let your women keep silence in the churches What churches The churches of the Saints every where POSITION IV. The visible Church in the new Testament is not Nationall as the Iewes was hence we reade of the Churches of Galatia Macedonia ludea not Church of Galatia 1 Cor. 16.1 2 Cor. 8.1 We say not that the Christian Church is Nationall Answer as was the Jewish church viz. that it hath a nationall Tabernacle Temple or House of God and solemne worship peculiar to it to which all the members or all the males must sometimes resort towards which the absent are to pray and in which the Priests in their courses do minister unto God 1. Why do you yet find fault with the Position Reply when you agree with us in the same 2. Why do you not lay down in what sense the Christian church is nationall and in what sense not nationall 3. If in any proper manner of speaking you will have the Christian church nationall meaning by nationall the Saints that live within such a nation as distinguished from the Saints of another nation in countrey and place of habitation without any othertie amongst them being all of them parts only of the Mysticall or Catholique church as wee know the Sea that washeth the British shores is called the British Sea and that which washeth the Belgick shores is called the Belgick Sea though they be not distinct Seas but parts of the great Ocean yet in reference to an adjunct of place they run by they receive distinct denominations and by a Synecdoche the parts carry the names of the whole in this sense we do yeeld the exposition or phrase of nationall church But if you mean by nationall church an instituted church of nationall extent in point of power and jurisdiction upon which particular congregations within that nation do depend wee want light that there is or ought to be any such church in the times of the Gospel For if there ought to be such a nationall church for patterns we have none as your self do confesse then in this church there must be some nationall combination nationall place for convention nationall Pastor upon which it must depend and nationall Ordinances For seeing there was no such church extant when the Gospel was written nor rules left for you would have alledg'd them we suppose had there been any how all things must be carried in such a nationall church what reason can be shewed if such a church must be why there should be a departing from the pattern of the nationall church among the Jewes in which they had all these things Therefore those seem to do best that in thir moulding of their nationall church come neerest to the example of the Jewish church Or if you will have another modell of this nationall church of your owne framing viz. a nation of Assemblies combined together and represented in their officers meeting in one place and consulting the good of the whole and executing authority over the whole then these persons must stand in relation to all and each one of the Assemblies of the Nation under their jurisdiction and so they are Nationall Officers
every one of them and the whole is the flock of each amongst them and each of them hath as full power over the assemblies that he never saw as over that from which he came and which sent him as in the representative civill body every Knight and Buegesse hath the care of the kingdome upon him and each hath equall authority of inspection and decision of matters concerning cities and countries which hee knowes not as of those whence hee came Now if it be so the Question is whether each be not a Passor to every purpose as well as unto one And whether hee be not to feed by doctrine as well as by the rod of discipline all such assemblies which are under his charge Which thing is yet impossible to be done And what warrant there is of non-residencie with the flock unto purposes that do most concern the flock seeing themselves are Christs Ministers and substitutes and have not power of appointing Ministers and substitutes under them and what ground there is why they must joyntly rule all the assemblies but severally teach each man the congregation to which he is designed without care of the rest Or if there be any such combination of assemblies in a Nation what is there to warrant it more then the combination of all Christian assemblies in the world represented in an oecumenicall councell the members of which must be universall Pastors having power over and care of all churches under them For if a Congregationall church must depend upon a Nationall church as the lesser upon the greater then a Nationall church must depend upon the universall as the lesser upon the greater For look what a Nation is to a Congregation that the universall is to a Nation and if Nations may be independent of the universall Congregations may be independent of the Nationall And if an universall visible instituted church be acknowledged why are there not universall representative conventions What a defect is this in Christendome And what a fault that all Christian nations do not endeavour it But we conceive that they are so farre from the endeavouring it that if there were any such though they might make use of them for advice yet they would be loth to subject themselves to the binding decrees of them Nor say wee that the Scriptures do mention a Nationall church Answer for the supreme Magistrate was an enemy to Christian Religion and Regis ad exemplum c. Believers it is like were not so many as to beare the name of a Land or Nation nor could they have liberty safely to meet in Nationall Synods Shew mee a Nation of Magistrates and people converted and I will shew you a Nationall church Ultra posse non est esse whether Nationall churches be lawfull or unlawfull 1. Reply You might have said Shew me a Nation of Magistrates and people converted and I will shew you a Nationall Christian church framed like the Jewish church with one Nationall Bishop over it one Nationall Cathedrall in it c. for so would Prelaticall men and the Pope himself argue No one Nation was converted then and therefore there could be no Nationall Pastor Many nations were not converted then therefore there could be no universall Pastor But what hinders but that there might be afterwards when a Nation and when the world should come to be converted 2. Though there was no Nation converted wholly and therefore as you say no nationall church could be yet Christs will and minde in that matter might easily have been dictated in the Scriptures had he intended any such Church afterwards as Moses tells the Jewes Deut. 12.8 9 10. That they should not do when they should come to Canaan every man what he listeth as they did in the Wildernesse but there should be a place appointed and thither should they bring their offerings and tythes and though there were not Nations converted yet there were so many in a Nation converted as made many Assemblies In little Judea there were Congregations and why together with the Church at Jerusalem might there not have been a Diocesan or Classicall Church There were enough converted for such a purpose But shew the sootsleps of a Diocesan or Classicall Church and it shall serve the turn then wee will yeeld there might in time be a Nationall Arguments taken from the appellation of the word Church Answer or Churches are very unsatisfactory because of the various acceptations of the words Kahal Gnedah Ecclesia Synagoga which we sometimes translate Church but should alwayes translate Convocation or Congregation a company called out or gathered together In this answer you labour to overthrow our Argument Reply for Congregationall churches setched from the appellation of the Apostle when he speaks of Countries and Provinces where more Congregations were he calls them perpetually churches in the plurall number and not church by these suggestions rather then arguments 1. That the words Kahal Gnedah Ecclesia Synagoga should alwayes be translated Convocation a company called out or gathered together if this be yeelded wherein it will advantage you we know not A nationall Convocation or Congregation or gathering together will sound harsher then a nationall Church for every one knows that we have no Nationall Congregation in England But 2. You suggest The English word church Saxon Cyrick and Scots Kirk Answer are derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Cambd. Rem or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Sr. Hen. Spelm. which as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth the place of meeting Hence we reade of robbers of Churches or Temples Acts 19.37 Kahal whence our English word call is sometimes Metonymically understood of the place The Heathen enter into the Sanctuary which God hath forbidden to enter into the Church Lam. 1.10 with Deut. 23.3 Nehem. 13.1 To come together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is if it be rightly translated to come together in one place and so Ecclesia is opposed to the buildings or houses in which they did eat and drink 1 Cor. 11.19 20 21 22. Synagoga is evidently taken for the place of meeting Luke 7.5 Acts 18.7 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the proper signification Reply is appertaining to the Lord and may more properly relate to people appertaining to the Lord then to place because the people do more appertain to the Lord then the place 2. Though Kahal once perhaps and Synagoga oftener may be understood of the place yet Ecclesia never That place in Acts 19.37 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 robbers of Temples not Churches That place in 1 Cor. 11.18 When yee come together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not to be rendered in one place Pareus upon those words utterly denies it And there is good reason why they should rather be referred to the people as a church then to the place For the meaning is when yee meet in the church when yee meet as the church that is to perform Church-work For they
Gnedah be taken as they may there was but one kinde of Church so combined which was Nationall And in the new Testament we say there is no other combination to enjoy all ordinances and worships instituted in the Gospel but Congregationall and we produce the small countrey of Judea containing a plurality of Churches and thence collect that they must be Congregations and that Congregations are therefore Churches And this is not weakened by what variety of acceptions is brought Furthermore wee do not know that Church or Flock or Lump or Body when referred to God and Christ and is properly taken is used otherwise then in two or three senses either for the mysticall Church Ephe. 5.25 26. or the * 2 Cor. 8.1.19 Congregationall 1 Cor. 1.1 sometimes indeed Rev. 1.4 we reade of it in a sigurative sense as in 1 Cor. 12.28 Gal. 5.9 James 2.2 1 Pet. 5.2 and many more places For though you say That four or five in a Family joyning in the worship of God are the Domesticall Church spaken of by Paul many times in his Epistles yet we conceive otherwise for seeing usually when there were any heads of Families converted some of the houshold were converted with them as we can give many instances wee think that many or the most that Paul saluted had in that sense churches in their Families and therefore Paul would not have singled out and with a note of distinction have spoken of some persons and the churches in their Families for that reason if some other reason had not moved him either then these Families were large and great Families and might be as numerous as some Congregationall Churches or the foundation of a Church might be laid in the persons of a Family but not so to continue but to grow to a Congregation or else some Congregationall Church might meet in such houses which was ordinary in those dayes And for the word Church in Acts 12. either it is to be taken for the mysticall church or else for that particular visible society of Believers which was at Jerusalem though some of them were absent But you proceed to give more particular answers and incounter with a part of the forementioned Position viz. There were Churches in Galatia therefore they were Congregationall Galatia was a large countrey in England a far lesse countrey Answer severall Churches have been heretofore and yet not meerly Congregationall And why are Galatia and Macedonia taken hold of Reply and made use of and Judea left out which in the Position was mentioned as well as they Surely the reason was because in both those countries there was more room for your Nationall Church then in Judea You could not find breadth enough to make a plutality of Diocesan Churches and therefore durst not contend for Nationall But grant wee the largeness of those countries according as you speak were either of them too large to make one Nationall Church wee know you think not so Why then doth not the Apostle knit them all up into one Nationall Church if hee had so intended them But you add The Churches of Galatia might he combined one to another Answer as the Churches of England Scotland Holland France are respectively combined for the Apostle speaks of them as one lump 1 Cor. 5.6 with Gal. 5.9 c. Such a combination wee easily grant to be among the Churches of Galatia as is among the Churches of England Scotland Reply c. and that is none at all or at the most a combination without jurisdiction But if by respectively you mean a combination which each of these Churches hath in it self in all the Congregations of and belonging to it such a combination wee deny to have been in the Churches of Galatia For all our Congregations have been united under one Metropolitane Archbishop of all England and as yet there is none other established and for other combinations such as in Scotland Holland c. without proofe we cannot grant them in Galatia And if Paul had intended by saying A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump that we should gather thence that they were all one Church hee would never have called them churches in the Preface of his Epistle but in a distributive sense it is to be understood For suppose one speak in a literall sense and say a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump doth he thereby make all the dough in a countrey one lump No but of every lump how many soever they be it is to be understood a little leaven leaveneth each of them so of churches a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump that is the whole Church every Church in which it is this maketh not all the Churches in a countrey to be one And the Churches of Macedonia were not so severall Answer but they joyned in one to choose a Brother which I conceive was an authoritative act to go with Paul for the managing of the Churches contributions 2 Cor. 8.18 19. 1. Reply Then to choose an Officer is much more an authoritative act which you grant to appertain unto the people then the people may act authoritatively which is none of our assertion but yours and the people are beholden to you for it 2. A combination of churches without jurisdiction will enable them to such an act nay if there were no combination at all yet when many churches are alike interessed in a businesse reason shews they ought to joyn alike to promove it 3. They did not make him an Officer by this act of choosing him but they deputed him thereby to a particular work which when accomplished all was ended The churches of Judea Answer consisting of Myriads of people did come together Acts 21.20 21 22. to be satisfied of Paul concerning an accusation that they had received against him and are called a Church Gal. 1.13 Acts 12.1 and an House Heb. 3.4 Not the Jewes of Judea alone did gather together Reply but the Jews of all other parts as appeareth from Acts 21.27 But be it that they gathered alone yet are they called one Church the place alledged is Gal. 1.13 I persecuted the Church of God What Church Churches in Judea No Paul saith hee persecuted them unto strange cities and Damascus was one of them The meaning is them that were of Jerusalem he persecuted to strange cities or he persecuted the Saints in generall Who as they are parts of the mysticall Church may be called by a Synecdoche the Church And Herod stretched out his hands to vex certain of the Church What church Either the mysticall or that at Jerusalem or any Church within his reach And his house Heb. 3.4 to be understood of the churches of Judea What strange mis-interpreting of Scripture is this house in that place is all the churches that were then or ever were to be in the world Christ is the builder of them all POSITION V. When a visible Church is to be erected This is not unlike the Answer to 32. q. p.
8 9. the matter of it should be visible Saints and Believers 1 Cor. 1.2 True so it should when an Army is to be raised a City begun Answer a Family set up much more when a Church is to be erected or continued the matter of them should be visible yea reall Saints beloved of God elect blessed Deut. 38.14 Isai 1.21.26 Acts 16.34 Rom. 1.7 Ephes 1.1.2 3.4 And we heartily wish they were all such 1. The meaning of the Position is this Reply Visibility of Saintship is requisite to warrant the setting upon such an action as erecting of a Church else the action for the nature of it is naught might not be performed Better no Church erected then not of visible Saints The rule is broken sin committed Is this granted by you If so why is the position quarrelled at seeing it is all that is asserted 2. But why do you jumble these actions together The raising of an Army the erecting of a City the setting up of a Family and the erecting of a Church As if they were actions of a like nature As if visibility of Saintship to them all were of like necessity Do you conceive that the matter of an Army must either be visible Saints or there must be no Army raised The matter of a city visible Saints or no city erected Doth the nature of those actions necessarily require any such qualification in the subject persons performing them that without such qualifications the subject persons are in a state of incapacity according to Gods true scope and intention to set upon such actions Wee know you hold it not Heathens may raise Armies and wage war and not sin because they do so if the cause be just They may erect cities and remain Heathens still and not sin because they do so for it may be their duty so to do but may they erect a Church to God and remain Heathens and not sin in doing so An Atheist and prophane wicked person may buy and sell and labour in his Calling and not sin because he doth so because it is his duty but may he be one to erect a Church of and to partake in the seal of the Lords Supper and be an Atheist and visible person still without sin Men need not be Believers and Saints to warrant them to perform civill actions or some religious actions for irreligious wicked persons while in that state are called to them but to do them with acceptation and so as to be accounted righteous in the doing of them they must be Believers and Saints But to erect a Church which is Christs body and is called to have communion with Christ in his body and blood in that Supper which he instituted is an action of another nature and requires faith and holinesse in the persons that constitute it to warrant the constitution of it For Church state being holy and the Ordinance of it holy either the subject persons must be holy also or all will be grievously prophaned and God foully dishonoured But why do you say They should not only be visible but reall Saints except it be to cast another mist before the eyes of the ignorant For if an Army were to be raised to fight on the Purliament side against the Cavaliers you would say it must consist of visible friends which seem sincere and cordiall else let it not be raised at all but you would not say it must consist of reall friends for then it would not be raised at all For if it must consist of reall friends God must be the raiser of it and not man who alone knoweth who are reall friends So of a Church if it must consist only of reall friends God alone must erect it and man must not meddle with it And though we reade these phrases Beloved of God Elect blessed yet either they received these denominations from the judgement of Charity because they seemed to be such as Phil. 1.7 or if there were infallibility it was applicable only to a party within the Churches whom the Apostle discerned to be such and not to the whole Church Yet we dare not use unscripturall wayes and means for the procuring and preserving of Church-members sanctity Answer To be wise and holy above the rule is to be foolish prophane presumptuous superstitious Could you shew us out of Scripture that the Church must examine persons that come to be admitted and that they must make any other declaration then professing of faith and repentance and that the Congregation ought to reject such of whose sincerity and sanctity they are not satisfied and that the want of this care in the first constitution of a Church doth nullifie it or make it unlawfull for men to joyn to it or continue in it and that it is necessary to know that a Church was constituted of visible Saints before he can in faith joyn to it we should not differ about the sanctity of the members Here is a deep charge of some things practised by us Reply to preserve the Churches sanctity and purity to be foolish prophane superstitious and presumptuous And there are instances given in examination of persons whether there be the works of Grace wrought in their hearts or no c. We answer for our selves First there are some things fathered upon us which we hold not as 1. That there must be some further declaration besides profession of faith and repentance We contend for no such thing but conceive profession of faith and repentance if in the judgement of charity it may be accounted reall if there be any thing that may serve to give witnesse unto it that it is not meerly verball may be judged sufficient 2. That the want of care to try the sincerity and sanctity of men doth nullifie the Church This is an opinion which we renounce as none of ours 3. That we must know that a Church was constituted of visible Saints before we can in faith joyn to it We hold flatly against such an assertion and do believe a judgement may be made from the present faith and order which any Church holds forth whether it be safe or unsafe to joyn to it or to continue in it Secondly there are other things which some Churches hold and practise which we think cannot be condemned As that a Church must examine persons that come to be admitted whether the work of grace be wrought within them or not Your self will now admit none of whom you doubt to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper till you have first examined them of their knowledge and why may not we examine them of their grace Is the Lords body discerned by knowledge most or by grace Faith is a grace and faith is the best discerner of the Lords body and if we can but finde grace we shall be sure to finde knowledge The Scripture saith Let a man examine himself yet you think not that sufficient unlesse you examine him if it be no Scripturall way to examine others why will
you be so soolish prophane presumptuous superstitious A stranger comes to the gate of a Garrison town professeth to be a friend yet except there be something to witnesse the truth of that profession he is examined over and over again and it is strictnesse that shewes faithfulnesse to the State And shall we be more remisse and carelesse when we receive persons into the Church then we are when we receive them into a town Our too much credulity may shew too little fidelity in the matters of Christ as well as in the businesse of men Besides if the Church be not a common receptacle of all persons but that it consist of a selected number and some are received and others rejected then there are certain rules of reception and rejection And then there must be a triall made by some whether persons be qualified according to those rules and this the light of nature teacheth and the rules of Reason lead to it though there should be nothing in the Scripture expresly mentioning it The most sutable means serving most fitly to atchieve such ends are alwayes enjoyned in the ends though they be not particularly expressed But what think you Is it not as lawfull to try persons that would be Church-members and make some profession in words of saith and repentance but hold forth nothing which may probably give witnesse to the reality thereof as it was lawfull and commendable in the Ephesians to try false Apostles which professed in words to be true Apostles Rev. 2.2 And is it not as reasonable for a Church to seek satisfaction concerning the reality and sincerity of sanctity from persons of whom they doubt as it was just and equall for the Church at Jerusalem to seek satisfaction concerning Saul whether he were a Disciple in truth or in pretence only Acts 9.26 27. But you will say there was cause of suspicion and jealousie in them concerning him because they knew him formerly to be a destroyer of the Church And may not we say there is cause of jealousie when we know externall profession of faith and repentance to be so common and the fruits which are worthy of it Mat. 3.8 to be so rare and scarce to be found If the Gospel and Christian Religion was brought into England in the Apostles times then it was like it was constituted of Saints Answer Church-covenant p. 37. as well as the Church of Corinth c. Because it is uncertain what Congregation was at first constituted of Saints within this kingdome and what was not Reply we neither justifie nor condemn the constitution of any but judge according to the present state of them And if we see any visible Saints as doubtlesse there are many in some Congregations and united also amongst themselves we could wish they were all such and in the mean time for the sake of those few whom we see so united we acknowledge them a Church and in all things so farre as they carry the ordinances uncorruptly we desire to have fellowship with them The Text in 1 Cor. 1. rather shewes what the members of the Church of Corinth were at the time of Pauls writing to them Answer then that they were on ought to have been visible Saints at the first erection of that Church yet it shewes not that all the Church-members he writes to were visible Saints for many known evill livers were known Members The denomination of Saints is a parce meliore that is from the better part c. The Text shewes what they either were at first Reply or ought to have been or what some of them were at that time and ought all of them to have been viz. sanctified in Christ called to be Saints as Hemingius Gualter Pareus upon that place do note for they say a definition of a Church may thence be fetched And what rule soever there is in Scripture requiring that any be Saints the same rule requires that all be Saints And there may many Arguments be brought to hold it forth 1. The end of Church-fellowship is not conversion but edification Ephes 4.11 12. Acts 9.31 For if it were conversion then all uncoverted ones whether they make profession of faith and repentance or no might enter in that thereby they might attain one end for which they enter as we know Because one end of the preaching of the Word is conversion therefore all may partake of it Jewes Turks Heathens because they may attain one end whereto it serves It is supposed then that the persons that enter into the Church are converted already 2. Excommunication is an ordinance in the Church and one end of it is to recover persons that are desperately sick and ready to die it is in the use of it as physick 1 Cor. 5.5 and therefore supposeth the persons to whom applied to be alive therefore all Church-members are to be reputed in the judgement of charity to be living stones 1 Pet. 2.5 3. If excommunication be an ordinance to throw forth visible sinners of all sorts then the Church should consist of visible Saints 1. It appeareth that all scandalous grosse sinners ought to be cast out from 1 Cor. 5. and that all other sinners which are not seandalous if they will not be healed of their lesser faults and brought to repentance ought to be duly proceeded against untill at last it come to an excommunication Matth. 18.15 16 c. He writes to the Church called to be Saints Answer or called Saints not to the Saints called to be a Church or to the Church constituted of Saints which expression rather of the two proves there was a Church before they were Saints See vers 1. Paul called to be an Apostle then that they were Saints before they were a Church He writes to the Church of God Reply and can there be a Church of God before there be Saints What a Church of God is that which had no visible Saints in it when it was first constituted Surely except you will say they were a Church of God while they were Heathens you must confesse that professing to be turned by the power of the Gospel in a time of persecution from the service of Idols to imbrace the living God in Christ they must be judged visible Saints at the first when they were a Church of God And these words Paul called to be an Apostle will not avail you for Paul was a man and a Christian too before an Apostle but what would you have the Church of God to be before they were visible Saints But how appeareth it that all the honourable Titles and Epithets given Paul Answer are given with relation to Church-members The Corinthians were enriched by God in all utterance c. Will you thence conclude that all Church-members must be so c. There are some names which shew the intrinsecall nature of the things to which they are given Reply and they do agree to all of that kinde As if one should write to the Army of
which it was the sign and seal and we would demand whether Isaac were not in covenant before he was circumcised and whether his circumcision did not seal so much and alwayes this order is supposed First Gods promise Secondly mans faith Thirdly the sign and seal of both in some Symbole of Gods institution so in Baptisme How prove you that Melchisedeck a Priest and Lot Answer which were not of his seed nor family were out of Church-state That a believer is not a son of Abraham if he be not in Church state by covenant which things you seem to imply when you say the Jewish Church was constituted in Abrahams family by Church-covenant the family of Sem was the Church of God long before this 1. We assert not that they were out of Church-state Reply but this we say if they were not circumcised as we read not that they were they were not of Abrahams Church nor had the Passeover been on foot could they have partaked of it any more then Believers could afterward who joyned not to Abrahams family Cornelius may be an example 2. It is one thing to be a son of Abraham as a Believer and heire of promise for so all Believers are and an Heathen is when converted before joyned to any instituted Church and another thing to be the son of Abraham as a professed Covenanter with God and bearing the Symbole of it in his flesh in the former sense Abraham was the father of all Believers though uncircumcised and in the latter a father of the circumcised which were also of his faith as the Apostle shewes Rom 4.11.12 3. Though it be probable that there was a Church in the famimily of Sem yet that place Gen. 9.26 27. proves it not for first it is propheticall of the posterity of Sem and Japhet and respects not so far as we can discern the persons of Sem and Japhet at least not at that time being both as is probable in the family of their father Noah Secondly there might be a Church in Sems family and yet of another constitution then this in Abrahams family this hinders not but that the church in Abrahams family might be constituted by covenant POSITION VII Every Member at his admission See the like allegation in Answer to Pos 9. p. 73. doth promise to give himself as to the Lord to be guided by him so to the Church to be guided by them which is no more then the Members of the Church of Macedonia did in a parallel case 2 Cor. 8.5 The givers are not the Members of the Church of Macedonia Answer as you for your advantage phrase it but the Churches of Macedonia and therefore if this do prove Union or Covenant it is of the members of severall churches and not of one only 1. The allegation in answer to the 9th Position Reply pag. 73. runs in these words As to the Lord to be guided by him so to the Church according to God to be guided by them these words according to God are lest out whether wilfully to make the practice of our Churches the more odious or by oversight we conclude not 2. There was no intent to prove Vnion or Covenant of a Church but subjection of each member to the Church to which he is joyned himself and the officers thereof and the practice of the Churches of Macedonia by way of allusion is made use of it is said it is no more then the members of the Church of Macedonia did in a parallel case The Argument is fetcht à comparatis the members of the Church of Macedonia did as much in a like case they gave themselves to the Lord and to the Apostle and Timothy according to Gods will to be guided by the Lord and directed by them a whole Church or Churches to one or two persons gave themselves and an Argument is fetcht thence thus then may one person that is to joyn to a Church as fitly give himself to the Lord to be guided by him and to the whole Church and the Officers thereof to be directed by them according to the will of God and it is urged that a member should therefore promiseit and to call it Church of Macedonia or churches is neither advantagious nor disadvantagious for though many Churches gave themselves to be guided by one Paul because he was Officer to them all yet a members subjection will be only required to his own Church and the Officers thereof because there is no superiority of jurisdiction of one Church over another and the members thereof We believe you would be ready enough to make use of this pattern to prove that the members of a Congregation must submit to the guidance of their Pastors and why do you except against it because subjection of each member to the Church is endevoured to be proved thence seeing that the Church compriseth the Officers thereof POSITION VIII This particular Congregation is a Church before it have Officers Acts 2.47 In a generall sense a few private men without Officers yea Answer a few women without men yea twenty members of severall Churches may be called a Church but a governing Church they are not the Church hath not received an office of rule without her Officers (b) Cottons Keyes p. 16. Reply We take Churches for such churches Reply as the Apostles planted in all places when they had converted any considerable number of persons into which Saints were wont to be gathered that they might be built up and edified by the Ordinances Acts 9.31 and unto which Pastors were given to reside with them and to oversee them Acts 20.28 and these must be Congregationall Churches for Pastors cannot constantly feed any other Or we take Church as Amesius defines it * A company of faithfull ones by speciall bond betwixt themselves joyned together to exercise the communion of Saints constantly amongst themselves Coetus sidelium speciali vinculo inter se conjunctorum ad communionem sanctor um inter se constanter exercendam such an united company is the Church before it have Officers for it is their priviledge to choose their Officers as you confesse in your Answer to the next Position in which sense if in any sense at all a few private men or a few women or twenty members of severall churches have never been called a Church Now whether this Congregationall church be a Governing church or not because it is not asserted in the Position we have no occasion here of discussing it The Church in Acts 2. had Officers Answer and better Officers then any Church now hath even the Apostles which were the Elders of all Churches 1 Pet. 5.1 2 Cor. 11.28 (d) The Apostles were as Elders and Rulers of all Churches Cotton Keys p. 48 and particularly of the Church of Jerusalem and did act therein as Elders it is not all one to want Elders now they are instituted as before ordinary Elders were not appointed at that time There is a
concession that the Church Reply Acts 2. bad no ordinary Officers for none were then appointed and yet they were a church and Acts 14.23 shewes so much they were churches before the Apostles ordained Elders in them and this is all that the Position drives at And though there were generall Elders which had inspection over all Churches yet neither these nor any other Elders do * Come into the essence of Churches ingredi essentiam Ecclesiarum nor is it any formall reason why a Company of Believers are a Church because they have Elders whether extraordinary or ordinary for were it so then their priviledge to choose their Officers would be when they have Officers for then they are a Church and it would follow that they cannot choose Officers when they want them and have most need of them for then they are not a Church and so can have no such power and it is very uncomfortable for the death of an Officer might be the unchurching of a people But that which may give more satisfaction in this matter is the consideration of such Scriptures where the members mentioned apart from the Officers are called the Church of God Acts 20.28 the Elders are the persons spoken to feed the flock over which the holy Ghost hath made you over-seers the believing Ephesians are the flock who are also called the Church of God purchased with his blood * Acts 20. vers 28. So Phil. 1.1 So that a Christian people united together with an intent of constant congregating to enjoy Ordinances for their edification are a church without officers or if they have them yet without consideration of them POSITION IX She hath also full and free power to choose her own Officers without the help of Synod This though not so fully is asserted by R.M. W.T. to C. H. Classis or Presbyterie Act. 1.15 Acts. 6.3 14.23 In Church-affairs Answer of weighty and difficult common concernment as election and ordination of Elders excommunication of an Elder it is safe and wholesome and an boly Ordinance to proceed with consultation and consent of the churches Prov. 11.14 (p) Cottons Keys p. 55. Reply This Position saith not that a particular Congregation or Church of Brethren have full and free power to choose her own Officers without asking or seeking the help of advice and direction from Synod Classis or Presbyterie nor do we think that there is any such meaning in it but without authoritative help of a Synod Classis or Presbyterie for in all those places of the Acts the churches had the help of direction but they were not strengthened by the interposition of the authority of the Apostles or of any other You will not take upon you hastily to censure the many notable precedents of ancient and latter Synods Answer who have put forth the Acts of power in ordination and excommunication (q) Cottons Keys p. 28. Reply 1. The grave Author of this speech meddles not with election in that place quoted but this Position runs of election 2. He keeps himself from an hasty and peremptory censuring of ancient precedents who have put forth acts of power in ordination and excommunication but he declares his opinion against it and we approve as well of his modesty as we do agree with him in his judgement We hold it a priviledge of the people especially if they proceed wisely and piously to elect their Officers Answer and an injury to obtrude any on them without their consent 1. What people are these that have this priviledge Reply Cottons Keys pag. 12. the Author whom you make use of so oft calls them Church of Brethren is it a people-priviledge or a church-priviledge to choose Ecclesiasticall Officers 2. What if they do not proceed wisely and piously is their priviledge lost must it be taken from them and then it would be no injury to obtrude an Officer on them It is an Officers priviledge to rule the Church but what if he do it not wisely and piously is the privilege then lost it is a Master of a Families priviledge to rule his own house but what if he do it not wisely and piously must it now be taken from him or rather must he not be directed and exhorted to do it rightly and the priviledge remain stil with him so of the people we have Junius of our minde herein (a) Junius Eccles p. 1963 Answer But let us view your Scriptures Seeing that you agree with us in the substance of the Position Reply and yet immediatly bring all the Scriptures brought by us to strengthen the same into question and none of them will passe for currant with you it had been convenient that you should have produced the Scriptures which do sway you unto the asserting of the same thing that it might have appeared to the world that you have found out some better bottome to set such a tenet on then we have produced For we conceive that if the Scriptures you oppugn are not pertinent to prove the Position there will be none found in all the new Testament but they will be more liable to exception then these and it is to be noted that all our modern Writers that we know of that grant any liberty to the people of choosing their own Officers they do it upon the evidence of these Scriptures which are excepted against in so much that we know not what should be the reason why you grant the thing alledged and bring no proofes of your own to confirm it and yet allow not of ours which we bring except you be resolved to contradict all that comes from us But what are your exceptions let us prove what weight is in them you say The Assembly Answer Acts 1. it is likely was not a body politick but occasionall only no part of Church-government being as yet set on foot here were not all but some of the sounder members of the Jewish Church and they had no commission to separate from the Jewes before Acts 2.40 the Company was not without Elders all the Churches and Elder at that time in the world were present if there had been any more Elders they must have conveened upon that occasion the choice was limited by the Apostle Peter First to the persons present Secondly to those that accompanied the Apostles all the time c. and was determined by God whose it was to choose an Apostle by his directing of the lot The meaning is Reply they were not a Christian Church but some of the sounder members of the Jewish Church and not yet separated from the Jewish Church and then 1. There is a contradiction unto some other of the exceptions which follow If they were no Christian Church how were the Apostles Elders of it and how was it an Oecumenicall councell all the Churches and Elders in the world being at it 2. Is there not some mistake in point of truth For those persons who were commanded to separate Acts
2.40 were they added unto such which were not separated The Text saith there were added to them three thousand fouls to them to whom to those who are yet members of the Jewish church then these separated ones who were added were members of the Jewish church by their addition for they came into their state to whom they were added and so they were separated and not separated which yet agrees not to vers 47. where they are all together called a Church 3. It is impertinently alledged that the company was not without Elders the Apostles were present For was the company straitned in their liberty by the presence of these Elders or rather were they not acquainted with their priviledge in this matter by these Elders When as else they might not have known it but you say a little after they were limited but what is this limiting nothing else but necessary direction and the limitation is but in one thing though you would have it in two the words are these Wherefore of these that have accompanied us c. For ought that appears all that had accompanied them were present and who could be so sit to be an Apostle as one of those who had accompanied them 1 Joh. 1.1 4. If the election of an Apostle did belong to God in reference to the particular person yet they proceeded as far as they could therein and agreed in the denomination of two and when the lot determined whether of the two should be the man the Text saith vers 26. by the common suffrage of them all Matthias was numbred among the eleven Apostles 5. If all Elders and Churches must conveen upon occasion of electing of an Apostle because he is Pastor of all Churches why must they not be gathered together upon occasion of ordaining an Apostle But we reade but of one Church and the Elders thereof present at the onlaining of Paul Acts 13.2.3.23 whereupon Paul calls himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rom. 1.1 As for the Deacons and Overseers for the power Answer though people may better discern of mens sitnesse and ability for that Office then for the Ministry Why are Deacons and Overseers for the poor made Synonymies and confounded Reply is this the reason to make the world believe that we have had Deacons amongst us because we have had Over-seers for the poor but if we have had Deacons when were they ordained who ever put their hands upon them according to the pattern Acts 6.6 or are they called so because their work is only to oversee the poor we conceive their office extends further But of that in its own place It is added Answer The people can better discern c. 1. They had direction to inable them to discern aright in choosing Deacons Reply and by direction they will be able to discern aright in choosing other Officers 2. A godly people or church rightly constituted for the matter will be able to discern of wholesome and powerfull Doctrine and if they want skill to judge of humane learning they may with little ado be informed 3. If your meaning be that upon this ground the people may choose Deacons but not other Officers you might have done well to have limited what you before granted and in stead of saying We hold it the priviledge of the people to choose their own Officers you would have said We hold it the priviledge of the people to choase their own Deacons but no Officers else And their liberty of choosing was a good means at that time to abate their discontentments because of former neglect Answer 1. Then it was granted to them of courtesie Reply and out of policie and it did no way belong unto them why then did you say before We hold it the priviledge of the people 2. Doth any thing appear to make this a reason that this liberty was granted to them Would not they have been as well pleased if the Apostles had done it if it belonged to the Apostles and not to them they all knew the Apostles were more able to choose then they and what the Apostles did gave better content for all magnified the Apostles besides is it likely that the Apostles would nourish a sinfull humor of discontent in the people by giving them a priviledge that belonged not to them Good brother take heed how you attempt to evade the strength of plain Scripturall proofes by such dangerous glosses as these Yet at their election Answer there were all the Churches and Elders in the world The meaning is Reply there was but one Church and the Elders thereof at that time in the world and they were there It is true the members were there for the Brethren were they that elected and the Apostles were there which were extraordinary Elders for they were the persons that directed but what did they act further Did they interpose their authority in election Did they take it out of the Brethrens hards Did they not manifestly put it into their hands in commanding them to look out seven men c. Acts 6.3 Answer Your selves acknowledge Synods an Ordinance of Christ in sundry cases Reply Not the Authority of Synods by way of jurisdiction in any case Answer Paul and Barnabas ordained Eders by suffrages given by lifting up and stretching out of hands for so the Greek word signifies but that the people did ordain Elders by election without the Apostles it saith not but rather the contrary viz. that they stayed from election and ordination of Elders till the Apostles came to advise and assist them therein the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth rather to give then to gather saffrages as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth imply the election of more Churches then one and yet it imports the election of no more Churches then those there spoken of so the phrase Paul and Barnabas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not imply that any Church or other person besides Paul and Barnabas did elect these Presbyters 1. We do not affirm that the people did it without the Apostles Reply For we conceive the Apostles guided them as at other times they had done other Churches 2. Concerning their staying from election and ordination we reade not of it and therefore dare conclude nothing about it concerning their advising we grant it but what other assistance they assorded we understand not unlesse it be said that they led the people by their own suffrage and so they might give their suffrage as you say the word signifies and yet gather the peoples also But that they should give their own suffrage by lifting up their own hands without the peoples seems unreasonable For when hath it ever been known that two persons alone in the presence of many others have gone to voting by lifting up of hands the one must gather the vote and the other must give it that is the one must say to the other Paul to Barnabas If thou be for such a man to be Elder in this Church manifest it
have the authority of calling they have also the authority of ordaining if a right ordination cannot be obtained for Ordination follows Vocation he that is called by calling he means election is as it were sent into the possession of his function You intimate that speciall works which the people might not do Answer are mentioned in that Commission which if you stand to you must deny the people power either to baptize or to preach if these words be not a Commission to the Apostles and Elders to ordain I am sure they are no commission to un-officed men to preach or to ordain We conceive we differ not much from you in this matter Reply we are utterly against un-officed mens baptizing and against their preaching in ordinary except when they have been trained up to learning and to the knowledge of the Scriptures and are expectants of a call to execute the Ministery and your selves in this case grant it and you put difference betwixt preaching and baptizing though they be joyned together in the Apostles Commission for in no case will you let an un-officed man baptize and yet for triall of gifts you think it fit to suffer an un-officed man to preach from 1 Tim. 3.10 POSITION XII If that need so require she may admonish her Officers and excomunicate c. T. W. to W. R. p. 39. The Church hath power to censure her Officers if she see just occasion Col. 4.17 The Church at Coloss had other Elders besides Archippus Answer which might joyn with the people in admonition 1. Reply What Officers there were in that Church or with that Church at that time appeares not 2. The command is directed to the Church without expresse consideration of any Officers amongst them and though there should be Officers yet the Brethren are not thereby excluded from joyning with the Officers in that which is commanded Col. 4.17 Paul bids Timothy fulfill his Ministery Answer 2 Tim. 4.5 this doth not suppose Timothy to be faulty or to be under censure And it may be Archippus Pauls fellow-labourer Philemon vers 2. was not faulty and then this admonition was no censure and therefore it is alledged to no purpose 1. Reply Expositors do judge him faulty see Zanchy upon that place 2. The Apostle saith to Timothy make full proof of thy ministery but bids them say to Archippus fulfill it Now there is difference betwixt these two the former respects persons himself and others whom he should assure of it the latter respects the work it self in duties of it and the one of these may also be without the other 3. It is one thing when the Apostle a superior writing to a perso and inferiour and one who did depend upon him gives him much good counsell and amongst other things injoynes him to make full proof of his ministery and another thing when the Apostle writing to a people without any occasion of such an exhortation and without mingling the injunction of this duty with other exhortations of like nature doth excite them in an abrupt manner to say to Archippus see to the Ministery c. For the former we have many patterns which yet imply not faultinesse 1 Pet. 5.1 2 3. Tit. 2. ult For the latter where is there any parallel place Though therefore Timothy whom the Apostle exhorts may be without fault yet there is strong presumption that Archippus whom the people ordinarily must heare in silence but now are put upon it to admonish him was not Neither doth admonition alwayes suppose authority Answer for this may be an act of charity as well as of authority Church-admonition is some degree of censure Reply for it is a leading step to higher censure till at last it come to excommunication call it what you will liberty power or authority yet censure it is and that is all the Position doth assert Private members cannot censure judiciously Answer or unchurch the Congregation though they be hidden Plead with their mother plead Hosea 2.2 If they may plead then they may withdraw when the Congregation is obstinate and so from their Officers Reply when they will no be reclaimed which though it be not judiciall and positive censure yet must be granted to be negative The Colossians were as well to cause that Epistle to be read in the Church of Laodicea as to say to Archippus c. yea Answer the word cause seems more authoritative then say ye yet our Brethren hold not that one Church hath power to cause any thing to be done in another Church if it had been said Cause Archippus c. and say to Laodicea you could have made notable use of it Cause in the originall is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not command yee but work yee Reply effect yee indeavour yee that it be read and so interpreted it is not so authoritative as say yee for say ye take heed seems to be more imperative if it had been said Say yee to Laodicea see that you read this Epistle and of Archippus indeavour yee that Archippus fulfill his ministery for the Greek word translated cause imports no more we could have made lesse use of it Finally Answer the Church cannot excommunicate their whole Presbyterie no more then the Presbytery excommunicate the whole Church Cottons Keys pag. 16. only she may withdraw from them c. This withdrawing is a negative excommunication Reply which is some kinde of censure though not so authoritative as the positive and more then this we plead not for POSITION XIII This Text is much insisted on and weekly contributions for the Minister grounded upon it These Officers are to be maintained by contribution every Lords day 1 Cor. 16.1 You do not maintain all your Officers Answer not your Ruling Elders though the Text 1 Tim. 5.17 doth as cleerly hold out the maintenance as the lawfulnesse The Apostles rule was not generall but only in the Churches of Galatia and Achaia vers 1. nor perpetuall for those gatherings were to cease when Paul came nor for any Officers qua Officers but for the poor not their own Church neither but of the church of Jerusalem which was a singular and extraordinary case c. We conceive you meet not with this Position as you do not with some other in scriptis Reply in our writings for we should then have been sent to the Author in the margent but in stead thereof you salute us with these words This text is much insisted on c. in discourse we suppose betwixt some one and your self you should have done well to have named the person because some of us have had conference with you about this matter and it may be thought you intend us but then you deal not fairly for that Text hath been alledged by us and more Texts with it to prove another thing viz. the raising and maintaining of a stock of money in the Church out of which may be taken proportions for every good purpose and so for the Ministers
maintenance as need shall require and our practice is sutable hereto Now to give better satisfaction both of our opinion and practice we shall discover our present apprehensions thus 1. We do apprehend tythes to be Jewish maintenance See Jo. Selden of Tythes because they were settled upon the Levites upon consideration of having no inheritance amongst their brethren and were appointed together with offerings Mal. 3.8 and had a particular respect to the Priesthood for the tythe of the Levites was to be tythed and given to the Priests Nehem. 10.38 2. Neither do we see ground for settled slinted maintenance to last from yeere to yeer if it must arise from the Church and not come from the state as in some countries it doth because if the Church must maintain the Ministery among them as God blessed them and a more equall rule then that there can none be found then except they could settle Gods blessing and make it to abide with men in an equall manner without increase or decrease the maintenance may not be settled and this also is an argument against tythes There is a great inequality in tythes and in all settled maintenance if not unrighteousnesse persons whose estates arise from trading and consist in goods not having any lands in some places pay nothing to the Ministery out of duty and so the countrey maintains the Ministery of the town though many Chappels perhaps be robbed thereby we give instance in Manchester whereas the towne is far more able to maintain their own Ministery and the countries also round about them and persons who are much poorer in estate then others but have larger lands then they though others lesse in lands can buy them twice or thrice over yet pay more because of their lands then they and if houses be rated or mens present estate valued and maintenance setled in the just proportion yet because mens estates are like the Moon in the increase some of them and others of them like it in the decrease it will soon grow unto an inequality again Besides mens estates lie many times where their persons inhabite not neither can inhabite and then their estates go to maintain a Ministery to which they do belong not and they are so much the more disabled in supporing the Ministery to which they do belong And this setled visible maintenance can be the maintenance but of peaceable times when the Magistrate is a Christian and countenanceth Religion for in the Apostles dayes and afterwards for three hundred yeers together while the ten Persecutions lasted there neither was nor could be on foot any such maintenance But the Church treasury duly kept up by contributions according as God blesseth every man will afford maintenance while the Church hath any thing at all times whether peaceable or troublesome whether the Magistatre be a Christian or a Heathen 3. This maintenance out of the stock of the Church we think we see most warrant for from the new Testament and as most probable we once disputed it with you and some other Brethren but neither then nor now are we peremptory in it 1. We considered how Christ and the Apostles were maintained in the work of the Ministery and we finde that they had a Stock of monies which came partly at least by contribution Luke 8.2 3. and out of this stock was taken for the poor also as from Joh. 13.29 appeares see Junius (b) Junius Ecclesiast pag. 1954. 2. We consider what was done in the Apostles times after Christ was taken from them in the dayes of the first Christian Church Acts 2.45 4.35 there was a stock then but raised after an extraordinary way and yet by free contribution they brought their whole estates and put them into a common stock which was but a temporary businesse and not astrictive unto all times Now out of this common stock the Apostles themselves and all others that had need were maintained and the Apostles had at first the oversight of this stock 3. After this upon the occasion mentioned Acts 6.1 there were Deacons chosen which had the oversight of the treasure of this Church for the Apostles gave themselves to the Ministery of the Word and to Prayer Acts 6.4 and neither meddled with receiving nor with disposing of what was contributed The Deacons took that burden from off them so that now they received all and disposed of all (c) Junius Eccles p. 1954 if any brought their estate they laid it down at the Deacons feet and if any distribution was made the Deacons made it the Apostles meddled with nothing So then the work was the same which the Deacons managed with that which the Apostles had before managed only it was in other hands the Deacons came into the Apostles place hence it followes that if the distribution was made as every one had need when the Apostles had the oversight and if themselves had a share as their need required and other labourers with them then it was so afterwards when the Deacons were intrusted in it so then the Deacons Office was to receive into stock and to take out and dispose as either the labourers or poore Saints had need and their Office was not to oversee the poor alone as our Brother would suggest (d) Junius Eccles p. 1954 Deacons do distribute to the necessary uses of the Church viz. the sustenance of the Ministers of the Church 4. This Office of the Deacon is not temporary but perpetuall in the Church as from 1 Tim. 3.8 appeares and our Brethren do acknowledge it therefore the work of receiving and disposing the treasure of the Church is perpetuall therefore there must be a constant stock unto which the contributions must be brought and out of which distribution must be made therefore though contributing of whole estates lasted not yet some other manner of contributing came in the room thereof else the Deacons Office would fall to the ground for want of work for they could not distribute out of nothing Hence it is that a commandement comes forth from the Apostle Rom. 12.13 to distribute to the necessity of the Saints and Hebr. 13.16 to do good and to communicate and another commandement which respects the necessity of the Ministers Gal. 6.6 Let him that is taught in the Word communicate to him that taught him in all good things the word though diversly translated in the English is yet but one in the Greek and signifieth to communicate 5. But this comunicating or contributing or distributing for all these are one to the necessity of Saints and to the necessity of the Ministers which will be granted to be a perpetuall duty in all ages doth not uphold the Deacons Office except the Deacons do receive it that so out of it they may dispose portions of it as need shal require therefore to the Deacons this contribution must be brought and we are induced the rather to think so because it is commanded under a word which
often signifies Church-communion and the Apostles meaning may well be that it should be upon dayes when the Church meets in communion and giving and receiving are actions of communion Phil. 4.15 and therefore sutable to such meetings in communion in the interim we would not be understood as though we meant to exclude all private distributing or communicating to the necessities either of Saints or Ministers though we conceive publike contributions to be principally intended Hence it is that Deacons are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor. 12.28 which being interpreted may import a person that receives some thing for another and it may beare receiving of a just reward for another and so a receiving not for the poor Saints alone but a reward for the labourers also * See Scap. Lex 6. But how must the Deacons receive the Churches contribution must they gather it from house to house that would be an endlesse toil and dishonourable also Contribution or communication is called a sacrifice Heb. 13.16 Now sacrifice was wont to be brought to the door of the Tabernacle and it comes most freely when it is thus brought but when must it be brought when the Church meets and when meets the Church constantly upon the Lords Day therefore these contributions must be brought upon the Lords Day but upon which Lords days must this be done upon those only upon which there is occasion of distributing something or at other times surely at other times else it might come to passe that they might have nothing in deposito nothing in the stock then many a person that needs can many times have nothing for the case may be such that the need cannot tarry till the Lords Day come and the person may be gone that needs before that time come now there ought alwayes to be something in readinesse to supply needs in cases of such urgencie therefore this contribution ought to be every Sabbath day that as there may be daily occasions of distributing there may be constant supply in contributing To prove this we have alledged 1 Cor. 16.1 2. and so far as we have made use of this Text we conceive we have not wrested it 1. We confesse that the occasion of this institution was collection for the poor Saints and not their own poor Saints neither but the poor Saints at Jerusalem 2. We confesse that there are no other Churches mentioned upon whom this institution was injoyned but the Church at Corinth and the Churches of Galatia which our brother saith was larger then England Notwithstanding if we consider severall particulars of the Injunction we may probably conjecture that he had a further scope in the commandement then the occasion doth import 1. He brings a great many of Churches not to the doing of the duty alone but to the same way of doing it the Churches of Galatia which were many and that at Corinth and there cannot be a reason rendered why all other Churches that were called to the duty should not be bound to the same manner of doing also and so the Churches of Macedonia and that at Rome will be brought under this Injunction for they were called to the same work of relieving the Saints at Jerusalem as well as the Churches of Galatia and Corinth * Rom. 15.26.27 2. The Apostle bindes the performance of this contribution to the Lords Day in all these Churches if he had had no scope to make this an Ordinance in all the Churches he might have pitcht it upon some other day 3. He saith every first day of the week that is every Lords Day so it is translated in the Geneva Bible and so the Preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often rendered as Scapula observes and give instances abundantly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in every yeer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is every moneth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is every word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is every person 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is vicatim 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is domesticatim 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is viritim street by street house by house man by man we have twice together the Preposition so taken Acts 2. ult 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 day by day 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 house by house now what reason can be rendered why this contribution must be every Lords Day in reference to the Church of Jerusalem alone for they might have given what they could have spared at once or if it were a great deal that they were to give they might have had the longer time allotted them and yet have given it at once or the richer and the abler might have given it at once and the rest at twice or thrice or four times but they must give it Lords Day by Lords Day without missing one Lords Day this seems to hold forth that Paul meant it for a standing Ordinance and that his scope was by weekly contributions to raise a stock in the Churches out of which might be taken without gathering 4. They are bound under this Injunction of first dayes contributions without any time set them of ceasing the same for though our Brother say those gatherings were to cease when Paul should come and alledge vers 2. for it yet we finde no such thing there he saith vers 2. That there may be no gatherings when I come our Brother gives this interpretation that collections may cease when I come but is not he guilty herein of corrupting the Text more then we for the true meaning is that it may be in readinesse when I come and that there may not be need to gather for it when I come for when it is in the stock already there will be no need of gathering for it and the Greek words are against his exposition but agree well with ours 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which words are truly thus translated that not when I come then gatherings be made he is diverse I think from Paul in his exposition of Pauls words he would have gatherings then to cease Paul would not have them then to begin for should they then begin there would be nothing in stock and so nothing in readinesse when use should be made thereof 5. Consider the manner of performing this act every one must put apart somewhat or lay by him What to keep it with him and not part with it not so for he must treasure it up as the Greek carries it or put it into the treasury What treasurie his own private treasury no for then it needed not to have been upon the Lords Day for any other day would have served for such a private act and then there would have been gathering together what every man had put into his own private treasury when Paul came and this would have been unreadinesse which Paul labours to prevent it was then the common treasury which the Church had when they met into which every one did put what he provided for such a businesse thus a stock was raised in all
these Churches by an every Sabbaths contribution But it will be said still that this respecteth the poor Saints at Jerusalem only But every Church hath or may have poor Saints of her own which way must they be relieved must not they be provided for the same way as the poor Saints of other Churches What reason can be shewed that the poor of other Churches must be provided for by one way or rule and the poor of their own Church by another way or rule or if there be any difference do not a Churches own poor rather require a weekly contribution for their reliefe then the poor abroad of other Churches therefore we said at the beginning that we conceived the Apostle to have a further meaning then the occasion did import Besides seeing there are Lords Dayes contributions throughout the yeer in all the Belgick churches for the poor upon what Scriptures do they bottome them if not upon this there is par ratio like reason without all doubt that look how the Apostle would have reliefe come in to the Saints of Jerusalem so he would have it come in to the Saints of every Church that wants it and that is by raising a stock in the Church for all good uses by first dayes contributions But wherein doth this Stock or Treasury of the Church respect Ministers The stock raised by selling of estates and laying them down at the Apostles feet respecteth not the Saints alone but the very Apostles why then should not the stock raised by an every Sabbaths contribution respect Ministers If we will take Chemnitius his opinion whose harmony upon the Gospel is not a litle set by (a) Chem. har p. 182 period hist de anno Christ 12. he tells us the Doctors in Christs time that preached were maintained by contribution he saith the treasury into which Christ beheld many rich ones casting in much and the poor widow all her substance was to maintain the Doctors he also joynes the poor with the Doctors and saith that the Treasury was for both uses see John 8.20 and compare it with Mark 12.41 Having given an account of our tenent and grounds whereupon built and our conceptions upon 1 Cor. 16.1 2. we need not frame any other Reply unto your Answer Brother for the intelligent Reader will discern what little truth in some things and little substance in other things there is in what you have presented in that matter only because you charge us with unrighteousnesse and partiality in point of our not maintaining our Ruling Elders we shall clear our selves in a few words 1. We conceive all Officers are to have some maintenance the labourer is worthy of his hire provided that he either require it or the Church be able to give it 2. We conceive that there is a difference in the works of Officers some are greater taking up the whole time and strength of the Officers double work being put upon them ruling and labouring in the Word and Doctrine so there should be difference in the maintenance of Officers some ought to have more then others 3. When the Church is not able to maintain her teaching Officers with an honourable maintenance then if the ruling Officers and the Deacons will remit what ever reward from the Church their work calls for 't is no unrighteousnesse nor partiality in the Church to maintain the teaching Officers and not the rest because their works do not so require the whole man but that they may have other Callings to help themselves by which means they may spare the Church in her poverty in point of maintenance 4. Your self may do well to consider whether the ruling Elders and the Deacons be maintained in the Presbyterian Churches and if it be an error not to do it it is good to pull out that beam out of your own eye and then you may see the better to take it out of your brothers eye POSITION XIV The great Mountain burning with fire cast into the Sea upon the sounding of the second Trumpet Rev. 8.8 9. is applied by some good Writers to those times in which Constantine brought settled endowments into the Church If it be so applyed by some good Writers Answer who possibly bad in their eyes the Lordly and almost regall riches and pomp of Prelates it is by as many and as good writers applyed otherwise Our brethren speak modestly and moderately Reply they tell us it is applied so by some good Writers It is not therefore their own novell exposition they present it as probable they force the interpretation upon no man But what are your exceptions against it For my part Answer as I sinde that Constantines donation the foundation of this exposition is but a fiction accounted by Gratian himself to be but palea and what is the chaffe to the wheat So I finde in the Prophecies that Kings and States are called Mountains Zach. 4.7 Casting of Mountains into the Sea implyeth great commotions Psal 46.2 Their burning with sire signifieth their opposition and fiercenesse whereby they become destroying Mountains Jer. 51.25 1. Reply We are not at a little want of books and therefore are not able to make an exact search either after the truth or falshood of this matter But let Constantines donation of the Popes patrimony be a Fiction and Palea yet we suppose it may be cleerly evidenced from credible Authors that Constantine brought in great riches and pomp setled endowments to the Clergie of the Church and that is all that is affirmed in the Position 2. If Kings and States be called Mountains so is prosperity in riches and honours Psal 30. Thou hast made my Mountain so strong that is my condition so prosperous And Sea in Scripture is the Church sometimes or the Religion of the Church Rev. 13.1 15.2 therefore casting of a Mountain into the sea may be bringing prosperity and casting riches and honours upon the Church and though Mountains should be taken in your sense for Kings when almost regall riches and honours were cast upon Prelates of the Church may it not be said a mountain was cast into the Sea And may it not well be said to be a burning Mountain when the ambition of Prelates after Church indowments and honours almost set the Christian world on fire and the hot contestations of Ecclesiasticall persons for Church-livings do testifie that if prosperity in wealth and honour be a mountain then it was a burning mountain and had such effects following it as the Prophecies in the Revelations speak of But you go on and say I finde not that it is unlawfull either for a yeer as in New-England Answer (u) 〈◊〉 to ◠R. p. 19. Reply or for certain yeers or for term of life much lesse do I finde that it is lawfull for one and not for a yeer a quarter or two or three or four yeers Though T. W. speak of maintenance from yeer to yeer yet it is not to be understood that
are said to be come to one mount Sion If so then the Congregations of the Christian Gentiles may well be another mount Sion And if the Nationall church of the Jewes with the assemblies thereof were mount Sion why may not every Nationall-church of Christians with the assemblies thereof we speak now in your language be Sion also and then there being many Nationall churches as you say there are many Sions And what greater absurdity is it to say there are an hundred or a thousand Sions then to say there are an hundred or a thousand Churches Seeing Sion and Church are all one Now you know there were many visible churches in Judea Galatia Macedonia Asia and many other places and if then so many how many more now therefore many Sions and because those many churches then and these now we believe to have been and still to be Congregationall therefore every Congregationall Church we hold to be Sion But you ask an odde strange needlesse to say no worse of it question with a great deal of vehemency Answer viz. Have you not found God present in our Assemblies Have you not by faith closed with the promises in the use of the Ordinances among us Speak out I know you dare not belie your selves us and God himself c. Reply Your question is bottomed upon a mistake when we say that God hath promised to be present in Sion you give this glosse upon it that we deny all your Assemblies to be Sion and will not grant Gods presence at all to be with you and that we appropriate Sion and Gods presence to our selves which is a great injury to us You also put this sense upon our words that God is so present in Sion that he is present no where else and so not present with holy men and women which are out of Church-fellowship nor present with members of many churches meeting together which either is a foul mistake or a slander For we think God to be present with his people when they meet in his feare whether they be Church-members or not Church-members whether they be of one or many churches whether they be in our assemblies or yours provided that his Ordinances be carried according to his minde yea though there should be some error yet he might give his presence (a) Rev. 2.1 with Rev. 2.14.20 Much rather do we think God will be present with persons whom he sets on work to exalt him in the execution of some office as he did the Apostles and now doth ordinary Elders Neverthelesse we conceive God to be most present with his people gathered into a body and compacted together in an instituted Church which we hold to be Congregationall and the reason is because the more any people do fall into the order of the Gospel and come into the way of Christ which he hath appointed for Saints to walk in the more Christ is ingaged to be present with them Now to joyn to some instituted Church of Christ is that way and order which Christ hath directed to therefore with them in such a way as so united and joyned Christ will more especially be present for he vouchsafeth a speciall presence amongst such Churches Rev. 2.1 he styles himself one that walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks he walks in other places and people but he would intimate thus much that his especiall delightsome walk is among them and the more golden the candlesticks are the more pure they be the more delight he takes to walke in the midst of them But Matth. 18. you say is mis-interpeted Your words are these Answer Christ in Matth. 18. promiseth his presence to those that are not a Church for two or three will not make a Church they vers 17 were to give the second admonition the Church the third There is a figure in the number Reply there is a certain number put for an uncertain two or three are put for a few the paucity that may be in a Church shall be no obstacle of Christs presence Pareus upon this Text hath these words It is an argument that the judgement of the Church shall be ratified because Christ himself will be present in the Church as supreme Judge to ratifie it it is also a generall promise of the presence of the grace of Christ in his Church be it great or small Now surely we shall lesse doubt our exposition having so learned a Commentator so well approved of to stand by us in the same POSITION XVII So long as a Believer doth not joyn himself to some particular Congregation he is without in the Apostles sense 1 Cor. 5.12 Those without Answer of whom the Apostle speaketh were unbelievers Pagans and Heathen without Christ as well as without the visible Church Let it be granted that those whom the Apostle speaks of were both without Christ Reply and without the visible Church yet it may be securely affirmed that the Apostle speaks of them under the notion of such as were without the visible church and not of those that were without Christ 1. Singuli de suâ familia judicant non immittunt consuram in alienam samiliam Ergo in Ecclesia similis servetur ratio ut singulae desuit membris judicent Aretius in 1 Cor. 5. Because those without whom the Apostle had not to do to judge stand in opposition to those within vers 12. the latter part whom the Church of Corinth had to do to judge and consequently if this exposition of yours be true the judgement of the Church of Corinth extended as far as the ultima Thule the lands end of Christianity and only ceased when it came to the consines of Paganisme and consequently any one Church hath power to judge any one Believer in all the world because say you he is not without in the Apostles sense that is to say he is not a Pagan Heathen or unbeliever 2. Suppose the Apostle had known a member of the Church of Corinth what ever he appeared outwardly in the frame of his conversation to be indeed without Christ and in a state of enmity with God if this man had committed a grosse sin might not the Apostle have judged such a one to be excommunicated We suppose you will say he might and if so we demand why should a Church-unbeliever be subject to the Apostles judgement and an Heathenish unbeliever be exempted from the Apostles judgement If Church-membership did not make the one obnoxious to that spirituall judgement more then the other For in the notion of unbelievers and without Christ they both agree and therefore if a Heathen were exempted from judgement because without Christ and not for this reason because without the visible Church why should not a Church-unbeliever be exempted as well as a Heathen 2. If we mistake not a Believer not joyned to any particular congregation is without in reference to Church-judgement and we suppose by vertue of this Text in your Presbyterian
calculation of Ecclesiasticall power For Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Synods have a power of judging or excommunicating those only that are within the combination Now these being representative Churches he that is of no particular Congregation is without the verge of Presbyteriall power or else it will follow that the Presbyteriall Church hath power to excommunicate a person that is not within their combination and if one by the same reason a thousand ten thousand in every quarter and corner of the world But say you The Apostle opposeth Fornicators of the World Answer and Fornicators that are Brethren Persecution in the Primitive times as it is at this day was chiefly if not only levied against those who did joyn themselves to the Churches to the enjoyment of Ordinances Reply or at least otherwise visibly as Paul at his first conversion by preaching declared themselves to be Christs Disciples Hence those to whom God had given so much faith and constancy as to be willing to expose themselves to persecution these did inlist themselves in the Churches frequented their meetings which were observable by the Persecutors and professed themselves of the fraternity of the Church the Church looked on them as her members and accordingly dispensed ordinances and censures to them as they had need Others there were who like Nicodemus came to Christ by night or like those chief Rulers spoken of Joh. 12.42 who though they believe in Christ yet they dare not confesse him by publike joyning of themselves to run all hazards with the Church Hence it is that no politick visible Church doth look upon these as of her fraternity or doth dispence all ordinances and censures to them Now the Brother that is opposed to the fornicators of the world is not he that by the internall and invisible grace of faith is a Brother and of the mysticall body of Christ though peradventure he dare not openly professe Christ But such a one is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Church of Corinth who is a named and professed Brother so looked upon not only by the motherly eye of the Church but oft times by the malitious eye of the world though peradventure they be not truly brethren united with the rest of the faithfull people of God as members of the mysticall body of Christ 2. With such a one not to eat presupposeth in an orderly way a forbearing of voluntary civil and spirituall communion with the party upon this ground that he is under censure in the Church Now the power of Church-censures is not to be executed by the church-mysticall but by the church-visible as such neither is it to be executed upon the members of the Church-mysticall as such but upon the members of the visible church whether they be in truth or only in appearance members of the mysticall church So then Fornicators of the world are to be understood of the world as it stands in opposition to the visible church and so those that are of the mysticall church may be fornicators of the world in that sense And though by the lawes of Christ concerning Church-discipline every man be forbidden to eat with those that are known Fornicators under church-censure in their own church and by vertue of church-communion with those that are fornicators under censure in any other church yet if one that is a member of the mysticall but dares not professe his subjection to Christ in that particular of joyning himself to some visible church shall be a fornicator we know no law of Christ precisely concerning church-discipline that interdicts a man to eat in point of voluntary civill communion with such a man any more then if he were a Pagan or Heathen But Answer say you without are Dogs and Sorcerers such as the Apostle had not to do with What have I to do c. vers 12. and yet he had to do with all Christians by his illimited apostolike power whether they belong to that or any other Congregation or no such as God judgeth or are left to the immediate judgement of God But this is not the case of Believers not joyned especially in your sense of joyning to a particular Congregation nor do you I hope judge it to be the case of Believers in England and Scotland 1. Reply There might be Dogs in the Apostolike Churches as well as without Phil. 3.2 and with such dogs Paul had to do with Nay he had to do with the dogs of the Gentiles he received a key of knowledge by which he was to open the Kingdome of heaven to them in case they would repent and believe and to binde them under the guilt of impenitencie and infidelity in case they would not repent and believe Matth. 28.19 with Mark 16.16 But those that Paul had not to do to judge who are said to be without in this place are all such as are contradistinguished to those that are within with whom the Church had to do by way of Ecclesiasticall judgement Now the church of Corinth had power of Ecclesiasticall judgement over all and only those which were within the combination of that church and therefore Paul had nothing to do to judge them that is to say with the judgement mentioned in this place which were out of this combination Now what was this judgement Answ The judgement whereby the Apostle decrees that the church of Corinth shall excommunicate fornicators and consequently shall not eat with them Now the Apostle had received no such power to judge those persons to excommunication and that by the ministery of a church that were never in fellowship with the church But such persons though for their crimes they may be subject to the judgement of the civill Magistrate yet in respect of Ecclesiasticall judgement they are left to the immediate judgement of God And if this be not the case of Believers not joyned to a particular congregation by whom shall those Believers be judged Why shall this Congregationall Classicall Provinciall National-church judge them rather then that May they be judged by all or any one Certainly they stand no more related to one then to another which are members of none at all Where shall the fault be charged if judgement be not passed We said before if a church may judge one out the combination why not a thousand why not ten thousand c. yet we are far from judging those Believers in England and Scotland which are not joyned in our Way of joyning to a particular Congregation therefore to be altogether out of Church-combination not capable of the Ecclesiasticall judgement of their Churches and consequently subject to the immediate judgement of Christ POSITION XVIII The Elders are not Lords over Gods heritage 1 Pet. 5.3 nor do exercise authority as the Kings and Princes of the earth do remembring our Saviours lesson Matth. 20.25 26 Luke 22.25 26. They are not so many Bishops striving for preeminence Answer as Diotrephes did 3 Joh. vers 9 10. (a) These Scriptures
are alledged to 32 q p. 59. 76. though not with such tartnesse against Presbyteriall government We will not say to you as Geta in the Comoedian (b) Teren. in Phor. Reply Nihil est Antipho quin male narrando possit depravarier tu id quod boni est excerpis dicis quod mali For you do not only leave out in reciting that which is good but for want of an evill use made of these Scriptures by the Elders of New-England in the 32. Quest you first insinuate that such an ill use is made of the Text and then confute your own fiction for you say To say nothing that the title 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is sometime translated Sir Answer and sometimes Lord Joh. 12.21 c. You take up the Title 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Reply and tell us that it signifies Sir and Lord and that it is sometimes given to Elders amongst others as if you had a minde to speak a good word for some kinde of Lordly power in Church-officers but you lay it down again and tell us Though Elders be not Lords over Gods heritage Answer yet they are Leaders and Guides yea Shepheards Rulers Overseers Bishops Governoure and not only Presidents of the Congregation Moderators of her actions or as the fore-men of the Jury And is not this to insinuate Reply that the Elders of New-England say that the Elders are only Presidents of the Congregation I suppose you mean meerly for orders sake Moderators of her actions or as the fore-men of the Jury Now there is not the least expression in either of the places that so much as seems to smile upon such an assertion as you would father upon the Elders of New-England Nay do they not expressly say that the Elders rule as Stewards as Shepheards as Captains as Guides as Leaders and doth this amount to no more in your Arithmetick then a bare presidency Moderatorship or Fore-manship of a Jury which doth not advance the person that carries the stamp of it one haires breadth above his Brethren in point of authority But only one step before them in point of order Whereas the Elders do not only state a Ministeriall authoritative power in them but also lay an obligation of duty upon the people towards their Officers by vertue of 1 Thes 5.12 13. This is that that we judge to be your own fiction The other Text say you Answer viz. Mat. 20.25 26. forbids Kingly or Lordly power in the Ministers of the Gospel for the two Apostles still dreaming of a temporall kingdome and being kinsmen to Christ did expect some temporall honour and advanaement Christ saith not there was inequality amongst the Priests of the Jews and amongst the Priests of the Gentiles or between the Priests and the people but it shall not be so among you but very aptly and pertinently to their Petition answereth The Princes of Gentiles c. And would you indeed make the world believe by all this Reply that you are all this while beating up the quarters of the Independents when as in truth this Text is urged by the Elders to no other purpose but to deny a kingly or Lordly power in Elders over their Brethren but not to deny an authoritative ministeriall power in reference to their Congregations Therefore they say the Elders are forbidden to exercise authority as the Kings and Princes of the earth do and they quote Mr. Baynes his Diocesan triall Q. 2. p. 74. where he distinguisheth power into naturall and morall morall into Civill and Ecclesiasticall both into Kingly and ministeriall asserting Kingly Ecclesiasticall power to be in Christ ministeriall in the Elders of the Churches who though they be Governours to the Church in the descending line of power yet are they but servile or ministeriall Governours in the ascending line that leads to Christ from whom they receive the Commission because they do all ex mero alterius obsequio by the meer will and command of another I but by this Text they deny a kingly spirituall power Object whereas the Text speaks nothing of spirituall but only of kingly secular power Admit that not only the two sons of Zebedee Answer but even all the Apostles that had been conversant with Christ and heard his doctrine from the beginning were such babes as to imagine that Christ would lay down his spirituall Kingdome over the souls and consciences of his people and for their sakes over Angels wicked men and devills in a way of soveraign power and would take up a temporall kingdome to divide inheritances rule over the persons and estates of men Nay admit that the sons of Zebedee or any or all of the rest of the Apostles had their eyes so dazled with the lustre of this imaginary temporall kingdome that they desired an eminencie one above another herein nothing regarding an eminencie above others in the spirituall Kingdome yet it will not follow that Christ speaks nothing by way of reproofe of ambitious aspirings in the spirituall but only in the temporall kingdome of Christ Neither needed Christ by expressing the inequality among the Priests whether of Jewes or Gentiles c. amplifie and expresse the equality which he would have amongst the Ministers of the Church For expressing the disparity betwixt civill polities of the world and the spirituall polity of the Church he doth that abundantly saith he It shall not be so amongst you as it is in the civill polities of the world There one or more rule with Lordly power the rest are in subjection but in the discharge of your Apostolicall Commission there shall be no such thing but you shall be all of equall power but if any will aspire to greatness in point of authority above his brethren let him be your minister c. as the Apostle taught afterwards 1 Cor. 12.5 There are diversities of administrations but the same Lord Christ only rules with Lordly power over the Church one Apostle or Minister hath no such power nor any authority at all one over another but are all fellow-servants having a ministeriall authority in reference to the houshold of the Church 2. It holds true in this case optimi corruptio fit pessima though Church-officers and offices are excellent things whilest they retain their genuine vigor and vertue according to the institution of Christ yet are they most dangerous when they grow degenerate and corrupt and no corruption so dangerous as that which is Symbolicall in the common nature of Church-power with that from which it doth degenerate Hence it is that corruption of Church-governours in an usurpation of exorbitant Ecclesiasticall domination is of more dangerous influence to the Church then if they should usurp some parts or branches of civill power For as in naturall things we say Elementa symbolica facilius transmutantur so in morall things corruptions do more easily change things in some thing symbolicall with themselves into their own degenerate property like a disease that it most contagious to
persons of the same blood Aud therefore if inequality of civill power be forbidden how much more inequality in power Ecclesiasticall which is the spawn and rise of Antichristian tyrannie (a) Pastor Prel p. 23. Answer to Mr. Down See pag. 81. 82. Mr. Pagets Defence part 2. p. 29 The learned Clergie in the dayes of Hen. 8. confessed there was no disparity of Ministers instituted by Christ Act. Mon. Diotrophes being but one was liker to a Prelate then a Prsbyterie c. These words are brought to vindicate 3 Joh. vers 9 Reply 10. from a supposed abuse by these words They viz. the Elders are not so many Bishops striving for preeminence as Diotrephes did We must confesse we had almost said we wonder that your ink did not blush to blot and blur such sweet humble-spirited holy and pertinent expressions as you do in this place Let your self once more and the Reader take a judgement of the passage as it lies in its perfect luster in the Answer to the 32 Quest The Question propounded by the Brethren of Old-Engand is this What authority or eminency have your Preaching-Elders above your Ruling-Elders To which the Elders of New-England frame this Answer It is not the manner of Elders amongst us whether ruling only or ruling and teaching also to strive for preeminence one above another as remembring what lesson our Saviour taught his Disciples when they were at strife among themselves which of them should be the greatest Luke 22.24 25. If Diotrephes strive for preeminence verily we abhor such striving and by the grace of God respect one another as Brethren Brother where lies the fault for which they lie under censure Is it a fault that the Elders in New-England strive not for preeminence If so we suppose it lies in this that their humble and brother-like walking each towards other condemnes the pride of those that will needs be striving for some kinde of preeminence and Prelacy above their Brethren (b) Juvtual Satyr Patriam tamen obruit olim Gloria paucorum laudis titulique cupido This formerly the countrey overthrew The lust for praise and titles and the glory of a few Or are they to blame to insinuate that the Apostles censure upon Diotrephes doth so frown upon those whether Prelates or Presbyters that strive for preeminence that it is a matter of abhorrency to them so to strive Hinc illae lacrymae hence it is that you say Diotrephes being but one is liker to be a Prelate then a Presbyterie Brother Reply a horse in the abstracted notion of unity being but one is liker a Prelate then a Presbytrie that are many But what of that Prelacy doth not consist in unity but in the usurpation of undue that is to say unscripturall spirituall power over their Brethren and in this capacity it is possible that a Classicall Presbyterie may be as like Diotrephes as a Prelate that is to say if they take upon them a preeminence over their Brethren as he did 'T is as truly Prelaticall when fourteen or fifteen exercise a jurisdictionall power over all their Brethren in a County as when one man shall take upon him to exercise the power aforesaid in two or three severall counties Perhaps the fourteen or fifteen being better principled then the other may do it with more gentlenesse and lesse offence but (a) More and lesse do not alter the kind magis minus non variant speciem and they may be both (b) Alike if not equally aequè if not aequaliter Prelaticall Yet John dod not blame him simply for acceping or having preeminence Answer or for taking upon him to answer in the behalf of the Church to which St John writ or for taking to him the power of commanding forbidding excommunicating but for loving preeminence as Mat. 23.6 7. for not receiving the Apostles and Brethren and prohibiting what he should have required and incouraged and excommunicating such as were the best members of the Church Reply You might more properly have said usurping or exercising preeminence for accepting presupposeth an offer made of the thing accepted Now it is more then probable that the Church never offered him preeminence both over the Apostle John and over her self that he should over-rule the Church and cast out her best members at his pleasure neither if she would had she any such power Let it be granted that Diotrephes was an Elder of the Church of Corinth Reply (c) Rom. 16.25 1 Cor. 1.14 and so had a preeminence by vertue of Office over the Body of the Church yet this is not the preeminence here spoken of but an exorbitant preeminence usurped over the whole both the Elders his equalls in power and the fraternity who though his inferiours yet have a share and interest in the passing of excommunication and other weighty affaires of the Church expressed as your self state it in taking upon him to answer in the behalfe of the Church commanding forbidding excommunicating Now say you he is not simply blamed for accepting or having but for loving preembrence and exercising it corruptly in regard of the things done and performed by him It is said of corrupt Princes Isaiah 1.23 Every one loveth gifts by the same reason that Diotrephes is excused from the guilt of solitary excommunication in regard of the materiality of the action by the same reason may these Princes be excused from their bribery and corruption And it may be said the Prophet doth not reprove them for the receiving but for the loving of gifts When the thing is evill there love how moderate soever is faulty in this regard that it is placed upon a wrong object But where the thing is lawfull a moderate and well tempered love of it is lawfull also As for the Scribes and Pharisees so far as they were men of chief rank and place Mat. 23.6 for them to possesse and love to possesse with a well bounded love the uppermost rooms at feasts and the chief seats in Synagogues would not be unlawfull but perhaps their ambition put them upon affectation of places undue to them and then their possessing them and their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Mark 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Matthew and Luke or as Christ speaks Luke 24 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they choose the chief rooms and this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be seen of men being added to their possessing Digito monstrari dicier hic est (a) To be shewed by the singer and to have it said This is such One is that which may justly be condemned by our Saviour But the case which respecteth Diotrephes may be this it is probable that John writ about something that did concern Discipline as the receiving of certain Brethren either to constant membership or by vertue of church communion now this was a businesse in which the fraternity had some interest as well as Diotrephes and the rest of the Elders and therefore
the Apostle writes not to Diotrephes or the Elders alone but to the whole Church also because Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus tractari debet that which concerns all must be handled by all But Diotrephes riseth up and he alone commands forbids excommunicates and what can be more destructive of the power of the Presbyterie and liberty of the people then such a course and yet say you or else you say nothing to the purpose he is not blamed for it If Diotrephes were not to blame being but a particular Elder to take upon him the power of the whole Eldership yea and the whole Church why may not a particular brother take upon him the power to elect an Officer which belonge to the fraternity or one Elder to ordain an Officer which pertains to the whole Presbyterie Or in your Classick Way why may not a particular Elder a member of the Classis exercise the jurisdiction of the whole Classis why may not a Classis exercise the power of a Provinciall Synod that of a Nationall and the Nationall of the Oecumenicall Synod and yet be blamelesse the reason is the same proportion that an Elder hath to the whole Eldership the same or far greater have a brother to the whole fraternity an Elder to the Classick a Classick to the Provinciall a Provinciall to the Nationall and that to the Oecumenicall Synod But peradventure it was not unwittingly done by you to put in the word simply for a retreat in case you should be hotly charged for pleading the cause of Prelacie under the notion of Presbyterie and so you will say you affirm not that John doth not blame Diotrephes for having preeminence but he doth not simply blame him for having preeminence Now if this be your meaning and that you indeed grant that Diotrephes was blamed for striving for preeminence why do you blame the Elders of New-England for saying that the Elders are not i. ought not to be so many Bishops striving for preeminence as Diotrephes did But if it be said that the force that is offered to the Text lies not in this that the Elders of New-England say that if Diotrephes strive for preeminence verely they abhor such striving for these are their words but in this that it is said The Elders are not so many Bishops striving for preeminence as Diotrephes did which peradventure may have an oblique insinuation that Classick Presbyters are so many Bishops striving for preeminence and it may be said the text affords no such conclusion We answer those words so many Bishops are no expression of the Elders of New-England neither is the Text applied by them to prove that Classick Presbyters are so many Bishops striving for preeminence I but M. D. saith a Classick Presbyterie sets up many Bishops in stead of one Peccat Aemilius plectitur Rutilius M. D. offends if it be an offence and the Elders of New-England are beaten Or suppose that reverend learned and holy man M. D. have let fall words which reflect with some blemish upon the Presbyterie from the sense of what himself had suffered yet your professed businesse is not to vindicate Presbyterie but the Text. Now M. D. we conceive for we have not his book doth not urge 3 John vers 9 10. to prove that the Classicall Presbyterie sets up many Bishops in stead of one and therefore what thing soever he hath said which offends in reference to the Presbyterie yet he is not guilty of wrong-doing in reference to the Text. I will not tell you who said All the Church is holy Answer ye take too much upon you c. Our consciences are unto us a thousand witnesses Reply that we have and by the assistance of grace hope ever to carry it with all gentlenesse and meeknesse toward our godly Brethren that are guided by a different light in point of Government from us and therefore it is lesse grievous to us to be parallel'd with Corah Dathan and Abiram those grand incendiaries of the Congregation of Israel yet it is not unworthy your serious consideration whether it might not be with good cause said to you as sometimes Christ said to one of the twelve when he asked Master is it I and he answered Thou hast said POSITION XIX The Power of Government is expressly given to the Church where we are bidden Heare the Church which is a particular Congregation Matth. 18. Brother we could wish you had signified the Author by whom Reply and the place where this wrong at least as you suppose is done to the Text as you have done in other Sections who those be that presume that Christ did no more respect the Jewish then they do the Church of England As your margent doth not inform us so in searching those few books we have we cannot finde among all the Congregationall men therefore we take it as an unjust aspersion thrown upon them The Church in the first and primary intent of these words Answer was a Church then in being which did abominate the Gentiles for Heathens and Gentiles were all one viz. the Jewish church which was not aparticular Congregation but a Nationall-church having graduall judicatories and appeales of which the Apostles were at that time and Christ lived and died an actuall member c. Whilest you your self say Reply that the Church in the primarie intent of these words was a Nationall church then in being do you not imply that these words tell the Church have reference to a Church or churches that were not yet in being which should afterward be invested with power of judging and therefore giving it for granted that Christ saying Tell the Church sends them to the Jewish Synagogues or Sanhedrin whilest their authority did continue and so Peter needs not stay three yeeres before he can acquaint the Church with his offence yet still the Congregationall church may be competitresse with Classicall Provinciall Nationall and Oecumenicall churches for the power of judging and if she should come off victricious then the guilt of wresting this place for you urge it to prove the power of your judging church would rest among your selves and the Congregationall men and their Way be guiltlesse Now for our parts we cannot see the title of Congregationall churches any way invalidated by what hath been hitherto said by your self or others 2. Whilest you say that the Church in the first and primarie c. I suppose your inference must be this Ergo those words Matth. 18. Tell the Church cannot be rightly applied to a Congregationall Church which hath no such graduall judicatories and appeals but Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Churches for amongst these are found such graduall judicatories and appeals The sinew and strength of this reason is this It is necessary that the judging Church in the times of the Gospel should answer in the manner of its judicature the judging Church in the time of the Law and ergo if that Church which was to judge then had graduall
judicatories and appeals such ought to have the judging Church in the dayes of the Gospel This main hypothesis upon which the strength of all depends is unsound For 1. It is necessary that the judging Church in the times of the Gospel should be conformed to spirituall precepts and patterns left us by Christ and his Apostles but Christ hath not appointed the Jewish church in matter of government to be a pattern to Gospel Churches For if so then are not the Churches that are of Presbyterian complexion to be understood in this place for there is a vast difference betwixt your Churches and the Jewish Church For First there is disparity in the manner of the calling of persons for Synods are made up of men chosen and sent forth by particular Churches but the Sanhedrin did not consist of chosen men sent out by the Synagogues but of Priests and Levites which the Synagogues did neither choose nor send forth Secondly there is disparity in matter of power In the Jewish Sanhedrin the chief Priest was chief by vertue of Office 2 Chron. 19.11 but in the Classicall Way all are equall in point of Office Thirdly in respect of the causes judged the Sanhedrin dealt with matters of civill nature Deut. 21.5 but Synods only with Ecclesiasticall Fourthly in respect of the time of judicature The Sanhedrin was a standing constant court but Classicall Provinciall Nationall and Oecumenicall Synods meet but once in a moneth once in half a yeer once in twelve moneths or it may be not once in many ages is an Oecumenicall Synod gathered and so those appeals that are made from a Nationall are in little hope to finde relief from an Oecumenicall Synod 2. If it were necessary that Church-government in the times of the Gospel should beare conformity with the Jewish Government then they must not only have graduall judicatories and appeals but they must have First a stated Oecumenicall judicature constantly to judge all hard controversies between blood and blood plea and plea stroke and stroke into all Churches in the world Secondly that this stated Oecumenicall judicature must have some stated place which God should choose Deut. 17.8 that so appellants might know whither to repaire for redresse of their grievances Thirdly that there must be one chief by vertue of office over all met in this universall court 2 Chron. 19.4 That he that shall do presumptuously and will not hearken to that Catholike councell that man must die Deut. 17.12 3. There may be good reason rendered why the Synagogues should be under a Juperiour judicatory and the same cause there is why Congregationall-churches should be under a Superiour judicatory The Synagogues were parts of a church that had not power to dispence all Gods Ordinances amongst themselves and were branches of a politick Nationall-church endued with power of government as Nationall The Promise and Covenant of God extended to the whole Nation But there is no such power of government left to every or to any Nation in the world neither are particular Congregations parts of a Church as the Synagogues of the Jewes were but they are entire and compleat Churches and may transact all Gods Ordinances walking in truth and peace amongst themselves otherwise all Gods Ordinances could not be transacted unlesse a whole Nation were converted and brought into Church-society This Gospel was writ principally for the Jews some say in Hebrew Answer c. Admitting the Proposition were true Reply which yet we have much cause to doubt of may not Congregationall men that are Christians use this place aright in applying it to Congregationall churches because the whole Gospel was writ principally for the Jews Certainly the undiscernible strength of this reason at least by us will levie war against the Presbyterians except they will professe themselves Jews for applying this place to Presbyterian Churches The Epistles to the Hebrews and James were writ principally for the Jewes and yet Christians that are Gentiles may make a right use of them In it the spirit of God useth much the language and dialect of the old Testament Answer in which Kahal and Ecclesia with the Seventy do sometimes signifie the company of Elders as well as the body of the people a Nationall Church with graduall judicatories and appeals as well as a particular assembly We cannot but despaire of ever seeing the premises delivered of the conclusion Reply Let it be granted that Kahal c. signifies in the old Testament sometimes a company of Elders sometimes the People sometimes a Nationall sometimes a Congregationall Church yet it will not follow that the Congregationall men in applying Mat. 18.17 to the Congregationall Church have offered any violence to the Text. For it will not follow Kahal sometimes signifies a Nationall Church in the old Testament no though to make it more strong you adde that the Spirit useth much the language and dialect of the old Testament I say it will not follow therefore it signifies a Nationall Church in Matth. 18.17 for the Spirit may use by your own confession the language and dialoct of the old Testament and yet it may be understood of a particular Assembly Neither will it follow Kahal sometime in the old Testament Ergo Ecclesia signifies a company of Elders Ergo it signifies a company of Elders in Matth. 18.17 Now there is not a word in the Text Answer to shew either that the Church is not here taken for the Presbyterie but for the People seeing when Christ saith whatsoever ye shall binde c. he speaks to the Disciples vers 1. or Apostles which are elsewhere said to have the power of binding and loosing Matth. 16.19 Joh. 20.23 and were not ordinary Believers but Elders 1 Pet. 5.1 or that it is meant of a parcular Congregation without graduall judicatories and appeals c. These are the Premises Reply but how shall we do to get the conclusion willingly to follow these Premises which must be this Ergo when the Congregationall men affirm that the particular Congregation is the Church to which God hath given the power of government and urge Matth. 18. to prove the exercise of such power by the Church aforesaid they abuse that Text. For the Congregationall men may very securely affirm that those words Tell the Church send the offended Brother to the Congregationall Church in the time of the Gospel even as they sent the Jewés to the Sanhedrin whilest that was in force and yet not send him to the people as they stand in opposition to the Presbyterie which are the most noble organicall parts of the integrally perfect Church For we do not seat the power of the Keys in the people as they are contradistinguished to their Elders but in the whole Church by a most wise and divine dispersion of power unto the dissimilar parts of the Church according to their severall capacities For as the Elders have an authoritative power so the people have a power of liberty in point of
censures So that reclamante Ecclesiâ there can be no excommunication So then though it be not understood of the people only no nor chiefly as they stand in opposition to their Guides yet this place may lawfully be understood of the Congregationall Church as it is contradistinct to Classicall Provinciall Nationall and Oecumenicall Churches The reason is we have presidents in the Word of God for the one as in the Churches of Jerusalem Corinth Cenchrea c. and rules prescribed to such a Church Acts 6.3 1 Cor. 5.4 chap. 11. chap. 12. chap. 1.4 chap. 16. but of any stated Classicall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall Churches there is a deep silence in the Scriptures of the new Testament no precept for the erecting of such and no lawes nor Officers provided for such Churches Now Christ Matth. 18. sends the people of God to such a Church as should be in strength by vertue of a Charter from heaven to redresse grievances and heal offences and therefore he sends us to the Congregationall Church as it opposeth those churches I spoke of before for these can shew no such charter I read that the promise of binding and loosing is not given to a particular Congregation when leavened with error and variance Answer But then a Synod of Churches or of their Messengers may judicially convince and condemn errors search out truth c. All that we have to say to that Reply is this If you will acknowledge the power of binding and loosing to be seated in the particular Congregation we shall not contend against it though we cannot say that the Scriptures and reasons brought are convincing to each of us to inforce our grant but that in ease of error or scandall that cannot be healed in the Congregation A Synod of neighbour churches or their Messengers may judicially condemn those errours and schismes c. and impose wayes of peace and truth but yet not assume authority of censuring the delinquents but leave that to particular Churches to be performed Cotton Keys pag. 28. POSITION XX. Matth. 16.19 Christ directeth his Speech not to Peter alone This seems to be taken out of Answer to 32 q p 44. but to all the Disciples also for to them all was the Question propounded by Christ vers 15. Nor to them as generall Officers of the Churches for that Commission was not yet given them but as Disciples and Believers In laying down this Position Reply and making your battery upon it as you do fall short of that ingenuity you professe in your Preface when you say If any of the Brethren amongst whom Mr. Cotton is deservedly the chief seem in my apprehension to come neerer the truth then other Cotton Keys pag. 4. I willingly take notice of it c. Now Mr. Cotton must needs in your judgement come neerer the truth then the Elders for he doth acknowledge that Peter was considered in the severall capacitles of an Apostle an Elder a Brother and so the power of the Keys was promised in him to Apostles Elders and Brethren according to their severall proportions of that dispersed spirituall power Now had you dealt with this doctrine with which we concurre and told us your thoughts of it in reference to the place we should have acknowledged your answerablenesse therein to your profession Now though you cite Mr. Cotton in the margent yet so as that the ordinary sort of readers can hardly guesse what his judgement is and the whole frame of your Discourse is such that may well leave the Reader in this apprehension That the Elders of New-England place all power of the Keys in Believers as such which is contrary to the very expressions of the Elders of New-England and to the judgement of the Congregationall men in generall For the Elders say The ministeriall power of government is given to the Church and consequently not to Believers unlesse they become a Church yea they say expresly That the Keys are committed to all Believers that shall joyn together in the same confession according to the order and ordinance of Christ and consequently except Believers joyn into Church-societies which is the Ordinance of Christ they have no share of the power of the Keys much-lesse do they assert any such power in women who though Believers yet are excluded from any share in Church-government by a positive law 1 Cor. 14.34 35. Peter was an Apostle in Office and Commission Answer though not yet sent out into all the world and an Elder Matth. 10.1 2 c. and doubtlesse the Key of Authority and Rule when it was promised to Peter and given to him with the rest of the Apostles Joh. 20.23 is the same authority which is given to their successors whereby they are called to feed and rule the Church of God as the Apostles had done before c. Let it be granted that the twelve Disciples so called Mat. 10.1 are not called Apostles vers 2. by way of anticipation Reply Mar. 3.13 14. but in reference to their present state and condition yet it will be necessary still to distinguish the equivocall term of Apostle as noting 1. One authorized to dispence doctrine and discipline amongst all nations Matth. 28.19 and in this sense Peter was no Apostle in Office and Commission as your self confesse And what the Elders affirm is true That the Keys were not given to Peter in this capacity i.e. not as to one that was actually in that estate and condition or was hereby put into that estate and condition 2. As one sent forth by a temporary Commission to preach and work miracles amongst the Jews only (a) Mat. 10.23 Now the Promise of the Keys was not made to Peter under this capacity neither was he an Elder invested with authoritative power of government at this time he could neither vote in Synagogues nor in the Sanhedrin but only preach authoritatively and work miracles to confirm his Doctrine and in case that they did not receive him he could not excommunicate them by himself or with all the rest of the twelve with him but must shake (a) Mat. 10 14 15. off the dust of his feet against them and leave them to the great day of Gods immediate judgement for so runs the tenour of his Commission and there is deep silence of any other then meerly a doctrinall power of the Keyes So that the issue is this that though what you say be true in the sense expressed yet it is nothing to the purpose for which it is brought for still the assertion of the Elders may be true that Christ speake not to them as Apostles in Office and Commission whether limited to the Jewes as you would insinuate or extended to all Nations but as Disciples or Believers 2. Neither will it follow the Key of authority promised to Peter and given to him with the rest of the Apostles Joh. 20.23 is the same which is given to their successors therefore Christ directeth his Speech to
Peter not as a Believer but as an Apostle in Office and Commission for what ever the import of the thing promised may be yet that hinders not but the promise may be made to Peter under the respect and consideration of a Believer For the thing promised in this place may be considered two wayes First as a reward in generall of grace and mercy Secondly as such a reward which importeth a power of opening and shutting the Kingdome of heaven Now the Power of the Keys considered as a reward of grace and mercy is promised to Peter as making such a glorious confession 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and I say unto thee q. d. thou hast made such a holy confession of me that I say unto thee I will not suffer thee to go unrewarded but I do promise that I will give thee the Keys of the Kingdome of heaven c. Now Peter did not confesse Christ as a generall Officer but as a Believer and therefore the reward which is the promise is made to him not as a generall Officer but as a Believer 2. As importing a power of opening and shutting and so though it be promised to Peter as a Believer and in him to all those that shall make the same holy confession of Christ that he did yet is it not to be executed either by Peter himself or any other under the notion and consideration of a Believer only but imports also an Office or State under the capacity and consideration of which it is to be executed Thus when Christ saith to Peter I will give to thee Keys c. he doth thereby promise that Peter shall be as a Member as an Elder as an Apostle in the Gospel-churches and in all these capacities shou'd have some share in the dispensation of the power of the Keys The consequent whereof is this No Believer at this day meerly as a Believer nay nor yet as a Believer externally confessing Christ with the mouth may have any share in executing the power of the Keys unlesse he be a Brother joyned to some Church or an Elder set over some Church for children for their weaknesse and women for their sex are excluded by a positive law For as the power of the Keys is promised so the State under the consideration of which they shall exercise such power yea and a Commission from Christ by which they shall exercise that power is also promised And thus Mr. Cotton may say that Peter may he considered as an Apostle an Elder a Brother because together with the power of the Keys the state of an Apostle of an Elder of a Brother is promised and yet not clash with the Elders of New-England who affirm that the power of the Keys is promised to Peter i. e. as a reward of grace and mercy as a Believer Neither need the Elders of New-England dread your three-fold consequence viz. First That the Keys are not given to any visible Church And Secondly That they are given to all Believers in covenant or no whether males or females Thirdly That Apostles and Pastors have no more power of the Keys then ordinary Believers which as they are false and absurd so it may easily appear by that which hath been said that they cannot shelter themselves under any thing in the Position of the Elders of New-England Neither will that Axiom à quatenus ad omnevalet consequentia i. from as such to all such a consequence is of force how beare you out in so unjust a charge For though it be true in such Propositions where the specificall difference is predicated of the Species or proper Accident of the Subject the proper effect of the immediate cause yet it will not hold when you speak of a Soveraign Lord acting in a transcendent way of liberty no nor of a rationall creature moving according to choyce and election Suppose you should have a servant that should prove faithfull in his place though one of the meanest places and therefore you should promise to give into his hand all the Keys of the house that he should open and shut to all the rest and this you should do looking upon him as faithfull A quatenus ad omne non valet consequentia in such a case it will not follow that every faithfull servant in your house hath the power of the Keys neither will it follow that the faithfull servant to whom the promise of the Keys much lesse every other faithfull servant as such may execute the power of the Keys For though the promise be made to that servant under the capacity of a faithfull servant yet the promise it self carries an Office by implication viz. the office of Steward under which consideration and not under the consideration of a faithfull servant he is to manage the power of the Keys Phineas the son of Eleazar the son of Aaron was zealous for God Numb 25. and God gives him the covenant of an everlasting Priesthood because he was zealous will you say that A quatenus ad omnia valebat consequentia in this case i. e. because an everlasting Priesthood was promised to Phineas because he was zealous therefore every zealous person hath an everlasting Priesthood Lastly that it was far from the purpose of the Elders of New-England to assert any such Doctrine as you would draw from their words may appeare in this Answer and elsewhere in this booke wherein they place the power of the Keys not in the body as contradistinct to the guides but in the whole consisting of Rulers and ruled giving to the Rulers an authoritative power which they give not to the ruled POSITION XXI 1 Cor. 5. Paul himself though an extraordinary Officer yet would not take upon him to excommunicate the incestuous person without the Church but sends to them exhorting them to do it (a) See also answ to 23. q. pag. 49. and reproves the Brethren of the Church of Coriuth as well as the Elders that they did no sooner put him away (b) Cotton Keys pag. 13. To prove that this Doctrine is injurious to the Text you thus reason He blames all women as well as men Answer that notwithstanding the notorious fornication which was amongst them they were puffed up and gloried c. 1. We suppose this battery is raised against those words Reply and reproves the Brethren as well as the Elders c. Now if it might be any gratification of strength to your Argument we will grant that the Apostle blames all in generall and yet the Elders may without any shew of wrong to the Text affirm that he blames the Brethren as well as the Elders for it will not follow Paul reproves the whole Church Ergo he reproves not the Brethren which are a part of the Church 2. If it be said that the wrong lies in the scope of the words For hence we go above to prove that the Brethren have ashare in the power of Church-censures Now the same argument will prove from this
text that women have a power in Church-censures because women are reproved in this place as being part of the Church We answer when an Epistle is writ to a whole Church it doth respect particular persons according to their severall capacities 1 Cor. 14.34 35. Now women are not in a capacity of dispensing Church-censures therefore the reproof is not extended unto them If things indefinitly spoken to a whole Church because they cannot be verified of one who is not in a capacity to receive them may not therefore be affirmed of another then because a liberty in cutting off offenders by vertue of Gal. 5.9.12.13 doth not belong to women neither doth it belong to Elders or Brethren for the Apostle speaketh to all Likewise because the Holy Ghost writes to the whole Church of Pergamus females as well as males and blames them for not casting out the Balaamites and the Nicolaitans which women have no power to do therefore neither doth the reproof import any such power either in Elders or Brethren This it may be you intended but as a light velitation with these lusorious expressions Sed remove ista luforia decretoriis opus est i. remove these Toyes there is need of Decrees Paul himself say you did excommunicate Alexander Answer and Hymeneus 1 Tim. 1.20 and it is not mentioned that he took the consent of the Church or Presbyterie That Paul alone did excommunicate Alexander and Hymeneus is not so cleare Reply but if we should deny it we could argue probably for the Negative Paul saith to Timothy 2 Tim. 1.6 Stir up the gift of God which is in thee by the putting on of my hands and yet Paul did but lay on hands with the Presbyterie 1 Tim. 4.14 Now if the Apostle did not act in ordination how much lesse in excommunication without the concurrence of the Church the rather because Apostles concurrence with the Church seems to make more 1. For Gods glory in the universall humiliation of the whole Church 2. For the Churches peace who are more likely to subscribe to the equity of those proceedings of which themselves have the cognizance then if they were carried on by a transcendent and superiour motion of Apostolicall power 3. For the edification of the Church in seeing and hearing and concurring in the whole businesse 4. For the attainment of the end of excommunication both the more immediate viz. Non-communion with the party and the more nemote noble end viz. the healing of the party and of the offence 2. Let what is assumed be granted yet we suppose you will make no gain of it For 1. It will not necessarily follow Paul did excommunicate Hymeneus and Alexander himself therefore Paul did without the consent of the Church of Corinth excommunicate the incestuous person For it was but sutable to the holy and self denying frame of the Apostles spirit Jure suo cedere to remit something of his own right 2. Neither is it so much as probablely convincing if we consider that the Holy Ghost makes the subject excommunicating to be the Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 5.4 5. 'T is the Church of Corinth whom the Apostle requires to purge out the old leaven vers 7. 'T is the Church of Corinth in which the Apostle states the power of judging vers 12. do not ye judge them that are within The Apostle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Answer I have judged as though I were c. which imports rather that Paul himself would deliver him to Satan then that he exhorts them to do it Indeed he commands them to put him away as he writes to them to restore him again to see if they would be obedient in all things 2 Cor. 2.9 Brother we cannot but observe Reply that you manage this argument something tenderly as if you did suspect the ground you tread on for you say not that the words import that Paul would deliver him to Satan himself and not that he exhorts the Corinthians to do it but you say that they import rather the one then the other and this amounts to as much as nothing to the purpose For in regard of the affinity the words may have with the one importment more then the other they may be said to import the one rather then the other and yet in their proper sense import neither Luke 18.14 The Publican is said to go away justified rather then the Pharisee and yet the words do not positively import that either of them were justified And yet you have a good minde to make your Reader believe that Paul himself delivers him to Satan and not the Corinthian Church by their authority and this you prove From the Gammaticall Syntax of the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Answ Doubtlesse there must be an Accusative case importing the subject delivering understood and this must be either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with reference to the Apostle or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with relation to the Church Not the first as we conceive 1. For if so it is probable the Apostle would have said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I have delivered him that hath so done this thing to Satan and have commanded the Church only to take notice of it and to abstain from communion with him 2. The Apostles judgment was such a judgement as was passed at the writing of the Epistle and therefore the Apostle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I have judged or I have judged already him that hath done this thing and therefore his judgement of the man was not the actuall casting out of him but only a judgement that the Church should passe the judgement of Excommunication against him assuring them that not only his spirit but the power of Christ should go along with them 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To deliver to Satan notes such a publike and solemn transaction of an Ordinance as Paul was in no possible capacity to do for he did nothing by proxie being absent For it notes 1. A publike binding of the person under the guilt of sin by the Key of Faith 2. An observable exemplary ejection of the person out of the fraternity of the Church and a shutting of the door of communion against him untill he repent by the Key of Church order Now must the whole come together and look one upon another in silence and upon the incestuous person imagining him to be thus excommunicate because Paul had judged to have him excommunicate and so after this dumb shew depart one from another Therefore we conceive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be understood as going before the Infinitive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and to relate to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the rule of Grammarians Si infinitivus Participium praecedens pertinent ad eandem persmam non additur accusativus personae sed subintelligitur But it may be you will say Objection that you affirm that the Church is commanded to do it and therefore
Paul alone did not do it Doth Paul command the Church to deliver the incestuous person to Satan Answer and yet reserve the whole power to himself as he must needs do if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 have reference to himself These things being spoken by you in reference to one individuall act under one and the same consideration expressed in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must needs be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 altogether inconsistent one with another or with the truth 2. If the Elders abuse the Text by saying that Paul exhorts the Church of Corinth to excommunicate the incestuous person how will you wash your hands from all wrong offered to the Text whilst you affirm that Paul commanded them to excommunicate him Yes say you Paul writes to them to see if they would be obedient in all things Is this your meaning that Paul writes not to them requiring them to put forth a power given unto them and all other Churches by Jesus Christ but only to exercise an act of power which did not of right belong unto them but to his Apostolicall Function And why by the same reason might not the Apostle then and the Ministers now in their Churches call out one or more and command them to preach or administer Baptisme or the Supper meerly to try their obedience Now this must be your meaning or else your argument will never conclude the thing you professe to conclude For we willingly grant that Paul writ unto them to try their obedience but the very Text imports that there were other grounds of his writing as well as this for he saith not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 therefore for this I write much lesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for this therefore only writ but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for this therfore also I writ unto you to try your obedience intimating that there were other grounds And therefore that Paul writ unto them to try their obedience will never afford such a conclusion therfore he writ not to them to exercise an ordinary power purchased for them by the blood of Christ for obedience may be tried by that which is both a priviledge and a duty Paul bids the Colossians cause an Epistle to be read in Laodicea Answer they its like did it in obedience to Apostolicall authority yet it will not bence follow that a Church hath ordinarily the same power over another Church There is a twofold causing by way of authority Reply or by way of morall swasion or endeavour this latter the Apostle speaks of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he work or use your endeavour and the same power hath every Church over other at this day for their good 2. Suppose you could obtain what you desire in all these that Paul did excommunicate not the Church or if the Church did yet it is a wrong to the text to plead for the like power at this day Do you not all this while fight against the Presbyterians whose Cause you pretend to advocate as well as against the Congregationall men whom you professedly oppose For if it will not follow The Church of Corinth whether particular or representative is commanded to deliver the incestuous person to Satan therefore every true Courch hath the same power then whilest the Presbyterian Brethren urge this place to prove the power of a Classicall Presbyterie they wrong the Text For though it may be a question whether this Text gratifie the fraternity of the Church with so much power as we would state upon them by vertue of this Text yet Presbyterians and Congregationall men all except your self that we know agree That whatsoever power the Fraternity and Presbyterie of the Church of Corinth had that the Fraternity and Presbyterie of all true Churches have to the end of the world He bids them purge out the leaven Answer and put away from them the wicked person c. which must not be understood as if Elders and People were equally authorized thereunto c. 1. Reply Is not this to insinuate that the Elders of New-England and Mr. Cotton affirm that the Elders and People are equally authorized to cast out the incestuous person and not only quilibet in suo gradu every one in their degree There is nothing in the place by you alledged that doth import thus much They say the Apostle reproves the one as well as the other The King for a miscarriage in a Cause may reprove the Jury as well as the Judge and yet there is no such implication that Elders and People Judge and Jury are equally authorized to the respective acts of Judicature The Elders of New-England infer from hence that all Church-power is not in the Officers alone do they therefore affirm that there is as much in the people as in the Elders Whereas in answer to Q. 15. p. 60. they shew certain acts of power in the Eldership which are not in the people and Mr. Cotton (a) Cotton Keys cap. 4. and 5. expresly gives all authority properly so called to the Eldership allotting only a popular power of interest and liberty to the people 2. And lastly for the rest of your expressions about this matter I take to be but of the train and retinue of this grand misprision and so passe them over lastly I say when you say that he bids them purge out the old leaven and put away the wicked person which must not be understood as if Elders and People were equally authorized thereunto but quilibet in suo gradu a man would think you did acknowledge that the People in suo gradu are authorized to purge out the old leaven and put away the wicked person which questionlesse are acts of some kinde of governing power and yet in the Catastrophe of all this Discourse you wipe the Fraternity of the Church cleerly of all acts of governing power when you say So when he speaks of acts of gouerning power it is to be understood of Elders and not of Believers Are not these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Are purging out the old leaven and putting away the wicked person acts of governing power And are Believers authorized in suo gradu to perform these acts and yet doth no act of governing power belong to the Believers of the church Let him assoyle this Riddle that is an Oedipus able to do it for our parts we cannot Thus much of your 21. Section POSITION XXII The Lord Jesus reproving the Angel of Pergamus for suffering Balaamites sends his Epistle This is alledged by Answ to 32. q. 45. and 49. not only to the Angel but to the Church The Spirit saith not only to the Angel but to the Churches Rev. 2.11 And the Church members are seen by Iohn in a vision sitting on Thrones clothed with white raiment having on their heads Crownes of gold Rev. 4.14 Now Thrones and Crownes are ensignes of Authority and governing power To make good your charge against the Elderss of wrong offered to these Texts
Church of Ephesus to whom Paul writes nothing (a) Do these words Eph. 4.11 12. nothing concern government of government though in his Epistles to Timothy he writ almost concerning nothing else and chargeth the Elders to take heed to the flock and look to Wolves Acts 20.28 But if you will need have the words this commandment extended to this whole Epistle you had need of good warrant for this exposition If you will acknowledge that the things written to Timothy concern Elders Reply Deacons and Believers out of Office according to their severall capacities respectively We shall easily grant that all the things contained in the whole Epistle are directed to Timothy himself but not for his own personall use but for the use of the Church also Now in this sense it will nothing befriend you in making good your charge For still the many rules contained in this Epistle in reference to the Church in generall to Bishops Deacons Widows and Members in particular may be in force yea by vertue of this Text to the appearing of Christ 2. If by these words to be directed to Timothy himself you mean that the Commandment immediatly preceding concerns none by way of obligation but only Timothy you heat upon a harsh string For must none flee these things fight the good fight of faith lay hold on eternall life by vertue of this Text but only Timothy Yea your self seem to be jealous of this interpretation when you say or if to his successours then it must be the ordinary Elders not the Church and yet you have not mended the matter For will you restrain these words That thou keep this Commandment vers 14. to those vers 11 12. Flee these things follow after righteousnesse c. and when you have done determine it to Elders only Then it will follow that only Elders must flee envie strifes railings evill surmisings perverse disputings covetousnesse That Elders only and not Believers at least by vertue of this Text must follow after godlinesse righteousnesse faith love patience meeknesse That Elders only and not ordinary Church-members must fight the good fight of faith lay hold on eternall life Now lest this as well it may should seem incredible to make it Testimonium side dignum you tell us that these words This Commandment relate only to that which immediately precedes and that which immediately precedes relates only to faith and holinesse in the ministery of the Word I answer 1. If you make these words Fight the good fight of faith lay hold on eternall life the commandment immediately preceding yet it is not necessary they should be understood only of faith and holinesse in the ministery of the Word which is but one part of the good fight of faith whereas the good fight of faith is fought in the universall conflict of an Euangelists conversation against the world the flesh and the devill as well as in the dispensation of his Euangelicall function 2. But with what good reason can these words Fight the good fight of faith c. be conceived to drink up the whole meaning and utmost extent of those words That thou keep this commandment without spot c. For though I do believe that your thoughts are ready to gratifie you with all pleasing accommodations for overthrow of one only stated discipline out of the word yet I cannot but think it would seem too grosse in your thoughts to teare by piece-meale the continued exhortation of the Apostle vers 11 12. but thou O man of God flee these things follow after righteousnesse godlinesse faith love patience meeknesse Fight the good fight of faith c. and to apply only this latter part of the exhortaion to those words That thou keep this commandment And therefore cannot but wonder that you should affirm that the Commandment Timothy is commanded to keep should concern only faith and holinesse in the ministery of the Word Therefore notwithstanding what hath been said we still affirm that these words relate to the rules concerning Church-government in the former part of the Epistle and this will further appear 1. If you consider the coherence of these words with the former The Apostle having in the former part of the Epistle insisted upon the severall duties of the Officers of the Church he commands them in the latter end of the second verse of this Chapter to teach and exhort these things 2. He arms him with instructions how he should carry himself toward those that should teach and exhort the contrary giving at once the character and censure of such men vers 3 4 5. and having made a digression vers 6 7 8 9 and 10th he falls on again to resume the former Argument and to exhort Timothy to flee the courses of these corrupt teachers and both as a Christian and Euangelist to approve himself to God in all holinesse of conversation vers 11 12. But thou O man of God flee these things c. q. d. Though some others may prove corrupt in doctrine and vicious in life yet do thou walk with God in the power of a holy conversation and particularly though others will spot this doctrine Bishops Deacons c. yet do thou keep it without spot and unrebukeable and cause it to be kept so by others for an Apostle Euangelist or Bishop never keeps the faith as an Apostle Euangelist or Bishop aright unlesse he cause it as much as in him lies to be kept so by others and so much is the import of the Apostles words 2 Tim. 4.7 I have kept the faith Now lest the Euangelist Demonstration of Discipline p. 5.7 or others to whom this Word of God might come should conceive that these things given in charge to Timothy were of a temporary nature and to cease with the Primitive times therefore he saith vers 13 14. I give thee charge in the sight of God who quickeneth all things c. that thou keep this commandment unrehukeable and without spot to the coming of Christ i. e. keep them thy self and deliver them in charge to the Church and principally to the Elders to be kept till Christ his second coming 2. That which Dr Whitakers against Duâ—aeus urgeth is not without strength That the Apostles have writ these Lawes speaking of Discipline not for a day or for the first age but to endure for all times to come and therefore hath ratified them with a most earnest obtestation saith he 1 Tim. 6.14 that these commandments should be kept unto the day of the Lord. That the Essentials of Discipline set down in Scripture are unchangeable Answer I grant but whether any Essentials be in controversie or how many and which they are you tell us not c. By Discipline Brother we mean the whole System Reply and comprehension of divine Rules Precepts or Precedents for the externall Eutaxie order of the Church which are not of a temporary but of a perpetuall use and equity till the appearing of Christ and
by Essentials we mean such particulars included in this System or Comprehension as if any of which be wanting something is detracted from the perfect and compleat order of the Gospel In this sense we say that there are certain Essentials in controversie That only persons righly qualified should be admitted to society in the Church is an Essentall a Isai 5.6.6.7 1 Cor 1.1 Phil. 1.1 Now though this in the generall be not in controversie yet whether this or that be a right qualification is in controversie and so an error in an Essentiall is contended for and made by the erring party either by taking in visibly false or excluding visibly true matter That the members of the Church be united by a right medium is Essentiall b Acts 2.41 Acts 5.13 1 Cor. 12. to Discipline but whether this right medium be I know not what implicit covenant or whether it be an expresse covenant or the legall bounds of the Parish is no small Question at this day That ordination excommunication c. be done by the right Subjectum capax c 1 Tim. 4.14 Titus 1.5 Acts 14.23 of these ordinances is certainly an Essentiall part or discipline But whether the Churches in some cases may ordain by Deputies no Church-Elders or whether in an ordinary way this power be in the Eldership of the particular Congregation or in a compound Classick Eldership is a great controversie But that the holy kisse oyle washing of feet are Essentials we hold not The remainder of your examination though drawn out into seven particulars seems to us to be like the hornes of the Beast called Bonassus Aristot de Nat. Animal which are big enough but yet they are ad pugnam inutilia unusefull to fight withall For though we cannot assent to every thing in your seven particulars yet shall passe them over because they are all peaceably conditioned to the Doctrine of the Elders of New-England For though they were all granted yet it may be cleerly deduced from 1 Tim. 6.13 14. that Christ hath left but one way of Discipline for all Churches c. the reason is because these are no parts of the discipline left by Christ to the Church which in the Essentials of it is unchangeable spoken by Paul in the Epistle to Timothy Horat. de Art Poet. Non semper feriet quodeunque minabitur Areus Lastly whereas you call for a Narrative of our Church-way especially of what we count Essentials we had thought to have taken some pains to have satisfied you herein but that in the nick of time that work is done to our hands by Reverend Mr. Cotton And further we hear that a work of the same nature by the Brethren of the the Congregationall-way members of the Assembly is upon the Anvile and that by the request of the Assembly of Divines at London and we make no doubt but the gleaning of the grapes of Ephraim are and wil be better then would be the vintage of Abiezer Yet we know not by what obligation we stand bound to give forth a Narrative of our Way more then the Brethren of the Presbyterian judgement do of theirs who though to this day they call earnestly for a Narrative from us yet have not gratified us with any Narrative of what themselves hold And therefore vouchsafe to touch at least with one of your fingers that which you are pleased to lay though we count it not so as a burden upon us POSITION XXV The Church or the Ministers thereof The like words are found answ to 32. q. p. 11.15 answ to 9. Pos p. 76.77 28. must not be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Pet. 4. and therefore the Minister must not perform a Ministeriall act to another Congregation Acts 20.28 1 Pet. 5.1 2. The Text in Peter speaketh not of the Church or of the Elders Answer more then of any other men nor of meddling with the affairs of other churches but with other mens matters nor yet every meddling with them but such a meddling as for which they suffered from the Heathens in those dayes Let no man suffer as a busie-body in other mens matters c. Neither do the Elders say that the Apostle speaks of the Church Reply or the Elders thereof when he doth dehort them from suffering as busie-bodies in other mens matters nor is the Text in Peter so much as mentioned in any of the quotations presented in the margent nor once intended to be made use of to prove the thing they were spoken of therefore is it not a grosse wrong to make the world believe that they made use of 1 Pet. 4. to any such purpose Only in p. 11. they make use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which Peter makes use of in 1 Pet. 4. but of that Text they make not use when their scope was to appear against dispensing censures Church-priviledges to Christians joyned to no particular Church they say they must not be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alluding to that place of 1 Pet. 4. where that word is used but not intending to give the meaning of the place Now they might well apply the word to Ministers intermedling without the bounds of their calling because the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though it signifie an Over-seer yet usually it is applied by the Holy Ghost to a person over-seeing in spirituall matters and so to a Minister of the Gospel and is translated Bishop therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a person that playes the Bishop in anothers Dioces out of his own bounds most properly therefore might be made use of in a way of application to Ministers though the Apostle speak not of Ministers in that place But what inference do you inferre after you have resuted your own fiction It is of no more strength meaning 1 Pet. 4. Answer against a Presbyterie over particular Congregations then against the power of Parliament over other Courts of Judicature You say true Reply the place which neither meddles with the one nor the other nor was produced unto any such purpose may have no more strength against the one then against the other but there are other Scriptures brought which deny to Ministers that power over other Congregations which the Parliament hath over other Courts of Judicature within their own territories The inference supposeth that the flocks mentioned in these two Texts Answer viz. Acts 20.28 1 Pet. 5.1 2. were two particular Congregations which is impossible to be proved The inference supposeth no such thing Reply only implieth that there is something in those Texts against Ministers their performing ministeriall acts to other Congregations the truth of which we shall make to appear The Texts in Acts 20.28 gives this charge Take heed to your selves and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers to feed the Church of God i. their charge extends to none of them beyond the flock over which they were made over-seers in
to the Text to which we answer 1. Here also you fall short of that ingenuity professed in your Preface for doubtlesse Mr. Cotton Reply that denies any ordinary exercise of Prophecy by men not called to the Ministery cannot but in your judgement come neerer the truth then those that say at least as you give it out that gifted men not called to the Ministery nor intended for it may preach which imply to be meant in an ordinary and stated way When you say yet that these did preach ordinarily and usually to the Churches like to Pastors is impossible to be proved Now though you style Mr. Cotton deservedly the Chief of the more ingenuous sort of Congregationall men yet you neither help forward accommodation nor honour Mr. Cottons ingenuity by the least mention of it as you professe 2. You are so far from helping forward accommodation that I know not how to excuse you from making the breach greater then it was For we have consulted advisedly with 73. 80th pages of the 32. Quest and we can find no such Position as you fasten upon the Elders For page 73. they answer the 21. Quest viz. Whether do you hold it lawfull for mere lay or private-men to ordain Ministers in any case And having proved the Affirmative by reasons grounded upon the Word of God they come to urge the consent of some worthy Divines and learned Writers as Doctor Willet Morney Whitakers and others and in the Allegation of Morney they shew that Morney expresseth himself that some of our men expected not the calling of those that under the title of Pastors oppressed the flock but did at first preach without this formall calling and afterwards were called to the Holy Ministery of the Word by the Churches and for this we have examples saith Morney First in the Acts where we read that Philip was but a Deacon preached in Samaria without the calling of the Apostles yea without their privity who for all that gave their allowance to that work So that here he speaks not of an ordinary and usuall course in preaching to the Churches without Office but an extraordinary case of those that because of the corruptions of the times preached to the people without the calling of the Prelates in such places where they had either no Officers or Popish Officers neither doth he speak of gifted men that intended not the Ministery but of gifted men that because they durst not enter by the ordinary door of Prelaticall ordination preached to the people by vertue of their gifts and that internall Prothumie or desire which God had wrought in them and so soon as by the blessing of God upon their endeavours they had so far prevailed as that there were Churches giving them a calling they imbraced that call And this is that he proves lawfull by the Allegation of Philips example So in the 80. page their scope is to shew that the Word may be made effectuall to Conversion though the man that speaks it be not a Church-officer For the people of which they alledge the preaching of those that were scattered by the Persecution of Stephen Acts 8.4 and 11.19 20 21. and Job 4.39 where many of the Samaritans believed upon the saying of the woman of Samaria and that 1 Cor. 7.16 What knowest thou O woman but thou shalt gain thy husband So that you do most miserably wrest their Allegations quite to another purpose then that for which they intended them for they never intended hereby to prove the lawfulnesse of preaching by vertue of gifts without Office but only that those which do preach without Office may be instruments of conversion much lesse did they intend as you would make the world believe that these did preach ordinarily and usually to the Churches like Pastors and received maintenance for they speak of such a kinde of preaching as may be done by a gifted woman as the woman of Samaria or the believing wife 1 Cor. 7. as well as by a gifted man Neither do they speak of the preaching of these that were scattered as it was ordinary and usuall and like unto Pastors but only as performed by men who all of them at least say they were not Church-officers and yet proved effectuall for conversion When we read your marginall note viz. This is but a little altered from Answ to 32. Quest p. 80.73 we imagined at first sight you had made some small alteration in the language and phrase which we could well have born with but we finde that you have made an alteration in the very scope and subject mater insisted upon by the Elders You have taken away their living childe and laid your own dead childe in the room of it so that in your margent we have you though in a mincing extenuating what Ciecro desires his adversary viz. Confitentem reâ—â—â—â— confessing your own guilt which is the greatest expression of ingenulty of all others in this Section 3. But that we may give satisfaction to you and to all men if it be the will of God we shall first declare our judgement concerning the point in debate and then answer your Arguments so far as we conceive them invalid First then we conceive that all the members of the Church so far as their occasions and calling will permit should strive after ability by way of prophesying to speak to exhortation edification and comfort a Hee Prophetiae donum tanquamalus praestantms maximè commendat Apostolus cuiomâ—es studeant 1 Cor. 14.1 2. Parâ—us in Rom. 12. col 1197. i. e. This gift of Propecie as more excellent then the other gifts the Apostle most commends for which all should cover 1 Cor. 14.1 2. 1 Cor. 1 p. 1. and the Hebrewes ought to have been teachers of others though they stood in need to be taught the very Principles of Religion Hebr. 5.12 2. There are for the most part and may alwayes lawfully be some in the Church who devote themselves to the study of the Scriptures and other profitable studies that so they may be the better inabled to understand the meaning of the Word Such were those sons of the Prophets bred up under the Prophets 1 Sam. 19.20 1 King 20.35 2 King 2.3.5 Such were many of our Saviours Disciples who addicted themselves wholly to learn to be fishers of men Such it is probable were some of those Prophets which were in Corinth Antioch and other Churches For the Rules to be observed in the exercise of Prophecie were not proper to the Church of Corinth alone but the same were ordained in all Churches 1 Cor. 14.33 And therefore Prophets whom the Rules concern were or might be in all Churches for having no publike Vniversities or Colledges for Christians 't is probable this was the way of training up men for the work of the Ministery under the Teaching Officers of the severall Churches 3. That ordinarily God chose of those that were sons of the Prophets to be Prophets yet this was not
universall for sometimes God raised up extraordinarily from amongst the people Thus Amos was a Heardsman and yet chosen to be a Prophet And this hath been done in an ordinary way in the Churches that men that have made great proof in holinesse and knowledge have been called to publike Office Spyridion a Shepheard was called to be Bishop of Trimithous Socrates Eccl. Hist l. 1. c. 8. p. 232. a City of Cyprus Ambrose a Consul being yet but a Catechumenist came into the Church Assembly at Millain and spake much and very powerfully by way of exhortation to the dissenting Brethren and was by an unanimous vote chosen for their Bishop at that instant before he was Baptized Socrat. Eccles Hist l 4. c. 24 25. p. 335. So when God was pleased to make known his Will by immediate revelation he was pleased many times to make use of the sons of the Prophets The sons of the Prophets that were at Bethel 1 King 2.3 5. and Jericho could tell Elisha that his Master should be taken from him yet sometimes God was pleased to reveale his will to those that were not sons of the Prophets Thus though none were to be designed by the Church as one of these two or three that must prophesie in a Church-meeting but Prophets yet if any thing were revealed to him that sate by he had the liberty to expresse it so that it is well observed on the one hand by W. Musculus upon the place that the Apostle saith not Duo vel tres prophetent sed Prophetae duo vel tres prophetent that is he doth not say Let two or three prophesie but let two or three Prophets prophesie So on the other hand upon these words If any thing be revealed to him that sits by let the first hold his peace he hath these words Non dicit significet loquenti ut ille hoc Ecclesiae proponat sed dicit surgat ipse loquatur neque dicit servet sibiipsi sed prior taceat ne videlicet illicitum putetur ei loqui in Ecclesia qui non sit in ordine Prophetarum sed de numero sedentium auditorum i.e. He saith not Let him signifie it to him that is speaking that he may prophesie the thing to the Church but he saith Let himself also arise and let him speak neither saith he let him keep it to himself but let the first hold his peace viz. lest it should be thought unlawfull for him to speak in the Church who is not in the order of the Prophets but in the number of those that sit by Aretius in 1 Cor. 14.26 and are auditors In like manner Aretius Inde fieri potest ut quos Ecclesia deputavit ad munus interpretandi non habent revelationem loci propositi sed alius in turba sedens Hence it may come to passe that those whom the Church hath deputed to the Office of interpreting may not have the revelation of the place propounded but some other fitting among the multitude 4. That now that extraordinary revelations are ceased yet it may be lawfull for some members of the Church which are not Officers to preach or prophesie publikely and 1. To those that are not in Church-fellowship 2. To those that are in Church-fellowship and want Officers 3. To those that are in Church-fellowship and have all Officers compleat For the first First it may be lawfull for a Church having persons indowed with parts fit for the work to send them forth as Messengers to preach to Heathens for their conversion Reas 1. By the same reason that the Church of Antioch sent forth Paul and Barnabas to preach in Salamis Paphes Pergo Antiochia c. for the conversion both of Jewes and Gentiles by the same reason a true Church may send forth men of excellent parts to preach for the conversion of Heathens For Paul and Barnabas did not now go forth by vertue of their Apostolicall Commission by which they were inabled to preach to all Nations for so they should have had no need to have been separated by fasting prayer and imposition of the hands of the Eldership for that Commission they had long before this separation but they went as Messengers sent out of God by the Ministery of the Church of Antioch and when they returned they render an account to the Church of their service in the work to which they were recommended by the Church Acts 14.27 Now if Paul and Barnabas who without the recommendation of the Church of Antioch might have preached in all these places were sent forth by the Church what doth this but demonstrate unto us a power in the Churches to send forth Messengers though they be neither Apostles Pasters nor Teachers who shall preach as gifted men sent forth by the Church for that purpose For if Paul and Barnabas who were Apostles did preach as Messengers sent of God by the Ministery and recommendation of the Church to such a work by the same reason may persons gifted preach by vertue of such a recommendation Reas 2. God hath left a power to the Church to propagate the Gospel by using means for the conversion of those that are unconverted Now because all unconverted persons cannot come to heare in the Church-assemblies therefore Christ hath left power to the Churches to send out Messengers for this purpose to preach the Gospel to them otherwise there were no means left by Christ to be used by the Church for the conversion of those that lie in a state of Heathenisme and cannot or will not be at the charge and pains of repairing to Church-assemblies If it be said Let the Church send forth some of her teaching Officers Objection The work of the Officers is properly to attend the flock Answer and therefore though a Church in the want of other fit persons may send out one of her officers for a time yet if she have those that are not in office that are indowed with eminent abilities for the work they are never the lesse fit because not in Office For if they were Officers they should act amongst Heathens not as Officers to such a Congregation but as men sent out by such a Church in the name of Jesus Christ 2. Gifted persons not in the Ministery may preach to Churches wanting Officers That they may preach by way of probation in reference to a Call you your self will grant and there is the same reason in case the teaching Officers should die Suppose an eminent gifted member that hath been bred at School and Vniversity for many yeers should be desired by the Congregation to exercise his gifts amongst them till God would inable them to choose another Pastor and Teacher this gifted person though not in the Ministery nor intending it might exercise his gift amongst them upon this ground which shall appear in the confirmation of the third thing which is yet of a higher nature 3. Gifted persons not in the Ministery may preach in a
Princes might preach but as King and Princes gifted and singularly stirred up to the work by Almighty God That a King and Princes eminently gifted and stirred up by an internall prothumie and desire wrought upon their spirits to preach is of perpetuall use in all such cases of defection as was in Jehosaphats time Nor will this confound the matters of God and the Kings matters But still the Priests and Levites shall preach ordinarily by vertue of Office and the King and Princes only occasionally by vertue of gifts And as they may preach themselves in all such cases so they may send forth eminently gifted men though the Churches through corruption should neglect or refuse to call them and this belongs to Civill Magistrates as they are custodes utriusque tabulae Neither are Kings or those sent out by them limited to particular Congregations but may call the people to such places and at such times as they shall judge most to tend to edification Thus Joshua called all Israel to Sechem Josh 24.1 and preached unto them before his death They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the Sea Isaiah 11.9 Thus saith JEHOVAH Stand ye in the wayes and see and ask for the old paths where is the good way and walk therein and ye shall find rest for your souls Jeremiah 6.16 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision but a new creature And as many as walk according to this rule Peace be on them and mercy and upon the Israel of God Gal. 6.15 16. A TABLE of the Texts of Scriptures cited Discussed and cleared from mis-interpretations in this BOOK GENESIS 9. vers 26 27. Whether a Church in Sems family page 43 Gen. 12.3 22.16.18 with Gal. 3.17 as Acts 3.25 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 42 Gen. 17.1.9 Whether it was a covenant only on Gods part p. ibid. EXODUS 12.3.21 Whether the word Congregation and Elders are all one there p. 53 Exod. 12.47 Ingaged by covenant to serve God together page 40 Exod. 34.23 24. All the Churches males must meet together for worship in one place page 14 NUMBERS 8.9 10. with vers 6 7 13 14 18 19. All the Congregation must lay hands on the Levites how page 52 44 55 Numb 11.29 I wish all could prophesie page 125 128 Numb 25. Phinehas his zeal Hence Gods covenant with him and his ergo page 49 DEUTERONOMY 16.2.16 See Exod. 34.23 All males to meet page 14 Deut. 29.1.10.12 Whether a covenant makes a Church page 37 39 40 2 KINGS 2.3.5 Gods will revealed by Prophets and others page 122 2 CHRONICLES 17.7 Princes sent to teach the people page 118 2 Chron. 20.25.20 King Jehosaphat prayeth and teacheth Israel page 118 NEHEMIAH 10.38 Levites were tythed Tythes are a Jewish maintenance page 61 PSALME 30.7 My Mount so strong What page 68 Psal 46.2 Mountains into Sea what it signifieth ibid. Psal 74.4.8 Burnt up Synagogues What page 26 ISAIAH 4.5 Gospel-church is called Sion page 71 Isai 61.20 Gospel in Old-Testaments language ibid. Isai 9.6 7. Christ is the churches King page 104 JEREMIAH 51.25 Fire signifies oppositions page 68 HOSEAH 2.2 Members may plead with the Church page 59 ZACHARIAH 4.7 What is that great Mountain page 68 Zach. 14.19 Gospel in Old Testaments language page 71 MALACHI 3.8 Tithes as offerings are Jewish page 61 MATTHEW 16.19 Of Church-binding and loosing page 89 90 Mat. 18.17 Tell the Church What Church it is p. 2 36 Not a Classicall nor Nationall church c. page 86-89 Mat. 18.20 A Church is Sion and hath the promises to it page 71 73 Mat. 20.25 26. Ministers are not Lords page 78 79 Mat. 28.19 20. In that Commission to the Apostles is no mention of ordination nor in that Mar. 16.15 16. page 56 57 Was not given to them as Apostles page 91 MARK 12.41 The use of the Church treasurie page 67 LUKE 8.2 3. Christ received contribution page 62 Luke 22.25 26. Ministers are not as Lords page 78 79 81 JOHN 8 20. Church treasury for what page 67 Joh. 13.29 From contribution was distribution page 62 Joh. 20.23 The Key given Peter with the rest page 92 ACTS 1.15 A few begin a Church page 9 12 13 Act. 1.15.23 A Church hath full power to choose her own officers page 46 11 9 Act. 1.26 By common vote or suffrage page 49 Act. 2.4.10 Gifts make not officers page 128 V. 40. The Church was separated page 2 48 Vers 41. Whether they they were a church before page 10 13 V. 45. Whole estates put into the common stock page 62 V. 47. A Church before Officers page 45 Act. 4.35 Selling whole estates not binding to all times but extraordinary page 62 Act. 4.17.19.21 5.28 29. Preaching when men forbid to obey Christ page 6 Act. 4.26 Took counsell together how page 19 Act. 5.28 29. Obey and hearken to God most page 1 2 3 4 6 Act. 6.1 Of the Deacons office page 62 Vers 3. The Church must look out seven men page 46 51 Act. 6.4 Prayer one work of a Minister page 57 62 Act. 8.4.12 Preaching without office page 119 Act. 9.26 27. Satisfaction of members before they be received in page 34 Vers 31. The head of Church-fellowship is not conversion but edification page 35 Act. 11.19 Jews were first preached to page 2 Ver. 19. Some not in office may preach page 118 V. 20.21 Some converted others gathered them page 4 Act. 13.2 3. Paul set apart by God and the Church page 49 Act. 14.23 Churches before officers to them page 46 Act. 14.27 Paul and Barnabas sent by Church also page 123 Officers ordained by peoples election page 46 51 Act. 18.2.26 Aquila and Priscilla at Corinth page 11 Act. 19.1.9 Paul separated such at himself converted not page 4 Vers 37. Robbers of Temples not of churches page 25 Act. 20.28 Elders must see to the flock page 107 112 Act. 21.22 Myriads What not all those of one Church but of many churches page 14 15 30 31 ROMANS 4.11 12. Abraham father of the faithfull circumcised and uncircumcised page 43 Rom. 12.6 Of prophecy page 125 Rom. 12.7 8. Teacher and Pastor are distinct page 70 Vers 13. Distribute to the necessity of Saints page 63 Rom. 15.26 Romans to contribute to Jerusalem page 64 Rom. 16.1 2. Recommending members to another church to receive them page 117 1 CORINTHIANS 1. v. 1. All Saints of Corinth of one Church page 15 16 Qu. Whether this be writ to all Saints or no page 16 20 1 Cor. 1.1 2. Church-members to be visible Saints and what triall of Saints herein page 31 Vers 17. Preaching is a Ministers great work page 57 1 Cor. 5.5 6. Purge out the old leaven page 29 30 36 Vers 5. Excommunicating there whether done by Paul or to be by the Churches power page 95 97 98 1 Cor. 5.12 Whether some