but he was of our Church and Religion And I reade that king Edward the third both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini 1371. and at other times with diuers other noble men defended his cause in so much that so long as he liued all the popish byshops coulde do him no harme yet did he openly inueigh against the Pope calling him Antichrist and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatioÌ„ both in the vniuersitie of Oxeford where he was reader and also in his sermons abroade as appeareth by his bookes and English homilies which yet are coÌ„mon to be seene with vnlesse he had bene supported and maintained by the kinge and other potentates coulde neuer haue continued so long as he did Further haue you not hearde of Zisca and Procopius two mighty Capitaines which defended the Bohemians from the tyrannie both of the Emperour the Pope and almost all the Princes of Germanie For what cause did Paule the second Anno Domini 1466. condemne George a noble and a worthy Prince king of Bohemia for an heretike and depriued him of his kingdome was it not for defending the Protestantes in his dominion Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates haue not onely offered but haue in deed taken in hand to defend our church which you thought vnable to be shewed wherfore I chalenge your promise you must recante The 11. article is so confuse that it is harde to bring it into any certeine numbre of demandes 1 Againe I requier of the Protestants to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelihoode when the true church as they compt theirs decayed I Answer euen in the Apostles time there arose many heresies which did not a litle trouble the Church but immediatly after the Apostles time while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the craft of Satan some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupied in greater matters were either not espied or not regarded as may be knowen by the writinges of Iustinus Martyr and Irenaeus two of the most auncient writers sence the Apostles time Iustinus was in this error that he thought that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into Deuills It seemeth also that the Church in his time was in some error about second mariages and diuorcements Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ liued here 50. yeares which he sayeth was receyued of them that heard it euen of the Apostles mouthes Also both he and Papias which was before him and was the disciple of S. Iohn are charged by S. Ieronym in Catalogo Script Eccl. to haue held this error that Christ should raigne a thousand yeares after the Resurrection here in the flesh whereby it is manifest seeing these auncient fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stayned with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times 2 VVhat yeare the Religion of the Papistes came in and preuayled ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entred into the church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the deuill planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist Yet we may well say that the religion of the Papistâ—s came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obteyned his Antichristian exaltation which was in the yeare of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of mony obteyned of Phocas the trayterous murtherer and adulterous Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the Church Since that time that deuilish heresie hath alwayes increased in error vntill the yeare of our Lord 1414. in which the Councell of Constance decreed to robbe the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood From this time it hath againe decaied being mightely subdued by the bright beames of the Gospell shining in the world and at the length shall be vtterly destroyed 3 VVhether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none could preach against it as it first entred WHen the coÌ„ming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible the very elect should be deceiued and a general departing from the faith was foreshewed and the Church to be driuen into the wildernes what maruell were it if none of our Church could preach against it as it first entred yet because you speake of the first entring of popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie you shall heare that when it first began to aduaunce it selfe there wanted not some either to preach or write against it When Victor bishop of Rome about the yeare of our Lord 200. passed the bondes of his authoritie in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia many bishops withstoode him and especially Irenaeus bishop of Lyons and Policrates of Ephesus as witnesseth Eusebius libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian also reproueth Cornelius bishop of Rome for that he was moued by threatning of heretikes to receiue their letters did not send them backe into Africa to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus bishop of Rome was bold to communicate with Basilides and Martialis two Spaniards that were iustly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their owne prouince sought to restore them Cyprian and his felow bishops of Aphrica being required to giue their aduise gaue counsell that in no wise they shoulde be receiued not a litle blaming Stephanus that beinge far of and ignorant of their cause he would take vpon him to defend such wicked men lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus threatned excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia because they thought that such as were baptized by heretikes shoulde be baptized againe he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria and diuers other godly bishops as appeareth by his Epistle wrytten to Xystus Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. Cyprian also reproueth him very sharply for the same opinion accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Pompeium and in his epistle to Quintinus he sayth plainly that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy that other men should obey him as his inferiors When Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Caelestinus bishops of Rome all on a row chalenged prerogatiue ouer the bishops in Aphrica by forginge a false Canon of the Nicene Councel they were withstoode by all the bishops of Aphrica who decreed that none vnder paine of excommunicatioÌ„ should appeale to any bishop beyond the sea Concil Aphrican cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chiefe see should not be called prince of priestes or highest priest but onely bishop of the chiefe see Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus byshop of Rome dealt hardly with the
church if we could name such notable persons as you speake of in all ages florishing in their gouernment and ministerie And it is a good argument that the Popish church is not the church of Christe because it was neuer hidden sence it first sprang vp in so much that you can name all the notable persons in all ages in their gouernment and ministerie and especially the succession of Popes you can reherse in order vpon your fingers in which beadroole neuerthelesse you must name many tyrants many traytors one whore many whoremongers many Sodomites many murtherers many poysenors many sorcerers and Necromancers and from Boniface the third all blasphemous heretikes and Antichristes But our church which hath not had so many registers chroniclers and remembrancers hath perhaps fewer but yet honester men to name we can name Peter Paule Mathew Iohn c. Marke Luke Timothe Agabus Epaphras c. Iustinus Irenaeus Cyprianus Athanasius Hylarius Ambrosius Augustinus c. Gyldas Bertramus Marsilius de Padua Ioan. de Ganduno Bruno Andagauensis VVickleue Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage c. With the first namely Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets we consent wholly in all pointes of doctrine with the rest in the cheefe and most substantiall articles of faith alwayes agreeing with any man so farre as he agreeth with the worde of God. 3 And if he can proue vnto me that their Church hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that any Church or Congregatiō but ours hath kept that charge thē I recant FOr some of those officers I haue twise aunswered before that they were not ordeined to continue alwaies with the church wherefore they are not to be exacted of vs but such officers as are necessary for the conseruation of God his people in the vnitie of faith and the knowledge of Christ our Church hath neuer lacked although in time of the great defection and Apostasie whereof S. Paule doth prophesie 2. Thess. 2. there were but few as there were but fewe members of Christ his Church notwithstanding that through iniurie of the time the remembraunce of all their names is not come vnto vs And although we could rehearse in order as many successions in our Church as the papistes boast of in theirs yet were that nothing to proue it to be the Church of Christ which must be tried onely by the Scriptures as S. Augustine sayth in his booke de vnitate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes cap. 16. Sed vtrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod Ecclesia sumus quia ipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus Optatus vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius vel alij innumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopi c. But whether they holde the Church or no let them shew none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not therefore say that men must beleeue vs that we are in the Church because we hold the same Churche which Optatus of Mileuitum hath commended or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable Bishops of our communion Euen so we require at the Papistes handes that shewe them selues to holde the Church not by succession of Bishops or rehearsing of their names but onely by the Scriptures for although we did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly succession on our side we would not require men to beleue vs but onely because we proue the doctrine of our Church by the authoritie of the Scriptures But as for the popish church neyther hath nor euer had any of those officers which S. Paule speaketh of for Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets she can chalenge by no reason seing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine vttered in their writings in steede of pastors teachers she hath wolues dūme dogges or false prophets which either teach not at all or else teach the doctrine of deuills the dreames of men And further I would desire none other place in all the Scripture to ouerthrow the popish Hierarchie which is the greatest glory of their Church then this place of Paule Ephes. 4. he speaketh of Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and teachers But where are Popes Cardinalls popish archbishops Bishops Preestes Deacōs Subdeacons Exorcistes Cantors Acolyts Ostiares Monkes Friars Chanōs Nunnes c. Wherfore I cōclude that all these popish orders are no offices in the Church of christ And especially seeing the Apostle both in this place Eph. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. by these offices proueth the vnitie of minde he acknowledgeth no Pope as one supreme head in earth which might be very profitable as the Papists say to mainteine this vnity for if there had bene any such office appoynted of God S. Paule in no wise woulde haue omitted it especially when it made so notably for the confirmation of his purpose which was vnitie To conclude if it be sufficient or any thing worth to rehearse the names of them that haue orderly succeded in all ages in the bishops sees in an outwarde face of the Church the Greeke Church is able to name as many as the Latine Church and in as orderly succession Wherefore if you be as ready to performe as to promise you recant The nynth article may be deuided into nyne demaundes 1 And for the necessary vse and execution of the foresayd offices they must further be asked what Sacramentes the Protestants ministred for the space of a thousand yeares togither in which they confesse their congregations to haue bene neare or else wholy hidden THey ministred those Sacramentes which Christ did institute namely the Sacrament of baptisme and the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ at such times as the cruell tyrannie of you Papistes did not hinder them to come togither for such purposes 2 VVhat correction they kept and discipline for offenders THey did vse such discipline as was vsed in S. Cyprians time when persecution hindered not the free course of it As he doth often complaine in the places aboue rehearsed They did admonish secretly before witnesses and when persecution stayed them not they did also excommunicate 3 To whome they did preach their Fayth TO such as woulde geue them hearing as VVickleue to the Englishmen Iohn Hus to the Bohemians VValdo to the Frenchmen and so of the rest 4 How did they reproue heresies THey reproued heresies by the worde of God and patient sufferinge of your tyrannie the one you may reade in their workes that are yet extant of VVickleue Bertrame Hus c. The other in histories of your owne writers 5 VVhere did their principall Pastors sit in Iudgement I Might aske you where the Apostles did sit in iudgement and you are neuer able to shew me for I reade as one sayth that they stoode often to be Iudged but I neuer reade that they sat in iudgement vpon others And so I aunswere of the principall Pastors of our Church especially in time of persecution 6
sacrifice for the deade was instituted by Christ at his last Supper which the holy Ghost afterwarde did secretly suggest vnto the Apostles and they as secretly deliuered to the nations For no worde nor halfe worde therof is conteined in their writings which are to vs the only true testimony of their tradition Thus haue these heretikes no grounde of their heresie but shifte from the worde of scripture to secret tradition from tradition to the meaning of scripture from the plaine meaning of scripture to the vnconstant opinions of men from the variable and contrary opinions of men in times past to their owne obstinacy and continuaunce in error in time present yet he woundreth that we are so blinde that we can not see the cleere light of the trueth If Satan transforming him selfe into an angell of light hath so dasled their eyes that they can not see the true light they are iustly plagued because they haue refused the faithfull testimony of Gods worde which only geueth true light vnto the eyes as the Prophet saith and geuen heede to spirites of errors and doctrines of deuils by whom they are blinded in vtter darkenesse though it be with false imagination and dreaminge of light Yet see the confidence of the man he is suer that if we were examined of our conscience what triall of this doubt we woulde wishe there is none we coulde name but his cause might well abide it Why M. Allen we haue testified of our conscience longe agoe that the onely authority of Gods worde written shall satisfie vs as well in this as in all other matters if you were as desirous to satisfie vs as you pretend and as able to performe as you are to promise we should haue hearde before this time some sentence of scripture to maintaine prayer and sacrifice for the deade not standing vppon voluntary collection but either in plaine wordes or necessary conclusion For there is nothing that we are bounde to knowe nothing that we are bounde to doe but either in expresse wordes or in necessary collection which is as good as expresse wordes it is set forth in the holy Scriptures Beside this you shoulde bring a great preiudice against vs if you coulde bringe the consent and practise of the primitiue pure Church for the space of an hundreth yeares after christ But neither of these doe we looke to see we before see with our eyes the certainety of those thinges whereof now we contend in words and writinges The heretikes of our time and country be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased their contrary communion is compared vvith the olde vsage of Celebration They are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith they are vveary of their ovvne seruice they are kepte in ordre by the vvisedome of the Ciuile magistrates and are forced flatly to refuse all the doctors CAP. XII 1 THe chiefe argument that the Church of God vsed in olde time against Pelagius the enemy of Gods grace was this that at the holy altar the Priest prayed to God for to conuert heretikes and infidells to the faith and euill liuers wicked conuersation to vertue and honesty the which prayers had bene to no purpose if the grace of God had not borne the principall stroke in the chaunging of mans hearte But being assured of this as a grounde that the prayer of the Priest in the whole Churches name at the altar can not but beare singular strength and trueth it is necessarily concluded that seeing the publike minister so prayeth that we must needes beleue that God hath mans hearte in his hande and may turne it to the belefe of his worde or loue of his will as he liketh and listeth notwithstanding the perfect freedome of mans will which by Gods grace is neuer perished but alwayes perfected And in this assured foundation of the publike prayers S. Augustine who then was the souldier of grace so triumphed against one Vitalis a Pelagian that he ringeth him this peale Exerce contra orationes ecclesiae disputationes tuas quaÌ„do audis sacerdotem dei ad altare exhortantem populum dei orare pro incredulis subsanna pias voces ecclesiae dic te non facere quod hortatur homo in Carthagiensi eruditus ecclesia etiam beatissimi Cypriani librum de oratione dominica condemna Holde on fellow exercise thy contentious talke against the vsuall prayers of Gods Church and wheÌ„ thou hearest the Priest of God at his altar exhort the people to praye for the misbeleuers scoffe at the holy wordes and make him aunswere thou wilt not pray as he biddes thee And being brought vp in the Church of Carthage condemne withall S. Cyprians worke vpon our Lordes prayer wherein he teacheth the same I tary nowe the longer on this point that thou mayest learne to kepe an heretike at the bay and to fasten thy stroke so surely vpon him that which waye so euer he shifte he shall beare thy blowe vpon his necke and shoâ—lders It is not for our cause taken in hand that I now so much trauell for that is longe sith made sure enough for all the deuills in Hell or their followers in earth But I woulde in this one example of praying for the deade geue the studious a tast of all such wayes as the trueth of all other pointes in controuersy may be both surely defended and so plainly proued and vpholden that the aduersary shall not be able to say baffe vnto any one of the least of all the groundes wherevpon Gods trueth standeth Handeling then our good men as S. Augustine did the like say to them boldely that the same Church which exhorteth the people to pray for the misbeleuers doth geue vs example to pray for the soules departed Vitalis and Pelagius were heretikes for withstanding the one they must needes be as very heretikes for refusing the other It was the greatest extremitie that Pelagius coulde be driuen to by force of Augustines argument to mocke at the priests prayer made at Gods altar and that which then was so foule an absurditie for those false teachers can it be borne out of ours with honestie Vitalis the Pelagian had a foule foyle by S. Augustine â—hen he charged him with the contempt of S. Cyprians authoritie Byshop of Carthage being him selfe a â—hield of the same Church And shall they goe away so smouthly nowe a dayes not only with contempe of their owne English patrons and Apostles but with impudent deniall of all the doctors at once that euer were gydes of Gods Church sith Christes faith was taught It was of Augustine counted a singular arrogancy not to praye in that forme as Gods Church and ministers at the altar both praye them selues and exhorte other to pray and shall it be such prayse for our preachers to erect a new seruice to be checke mate with the olde to controele the rites and vsages of solemne supplication in all countries Christianed and with the
successions did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste the Roman Seate And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty nor succession when by plaine open dealing we may reduce and must needes referre our faith to that which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde 3 Euery man in the primitiue Church compted the springe of his faith more pure if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures and shew the continuance thereof in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies eyther from any of the Apostles or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses The like doth Irenaeus And that these men specially named the Church of Rome it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marcion Nouatus But none of these fathers as M. Allen woulde haue it appeare was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea they were ready to accept For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely haue reproued Victor as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not haue taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles Hieronym woulde not haue bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda est Et Gallia Britania Africa Bersis Oriens Indiae omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis Si authoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside Both France and Britayne and Africa and Persia and the Easte and India and all barbarous nations worship one Christ keepe one rule of trueth If authoritie be sought the world is greater then one citye c. Loe Syr here is a Church and christianity and a rule of trueth with out the byshoppe of Rome with out the Church of Rome yea and contrary to the church of Rome For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome he sayth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem what bring you me the custome of one citye and Augustine him selfe that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles I trowe fetched Zosimus Bonifacius and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa tooke them with plaine forgerie and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice Consilio Milebitano Africano As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange is for lacke of skill and right iudgement For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome moueth vs now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome Aske Tertullian he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Therefore it was a true Church therefore it was an apostolicke Church which because it doth not nowe neither hath done of many yeares and hath nothing to boast of but the empty names of many good bishops but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes therefore it is nowe a false church and a company of heretikes departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule maugre all their beardes In which ordre of Byshops finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine I will go seeke with the stray a newe mother Church to founde my faith vpon If all be in this succession salfe and sounde what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother and spring of our belefe to seeke other which haue often erred when they stoode and nowe be almost wholy decaide But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith it is not to be thought straunge that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke which they euer leaned vnto in the stormes of schisme and heresie The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession to haue beaten downe all their forefathers the heretikes of all agies They feare their fall whose steppes they follow They vtter much malice torment them selfe in euery sermon in vaine that Church feeleth no sore but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers she hath bidden greater stormes then this first by tyraunts then by heretikes last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes In all which she yet standeth and euer riseth to honour as she is most impugned Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in euery sermon in euery playe in booke and balate men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters nor often hearde of his name beganne straight upon their busy ralinge to conceiue by reasonable discretion that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vpon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name they saw the Pope euer in their way neuer out of their mouth and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vpon some great importance and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians and disease of the Donatistes and common to all heretikes they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men was to driue awaye the pastor that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke And which was the pricke of all their endeuours to take from vs the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith that in stopping the heade of that condeth and plentifull well of our faith
r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a. r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rea vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you â—avv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97.1 your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vincè In the aunswere of a true Christian c. pag. 14. li. 6 for that r. theÌ„ 22.21 conseites r. conserues 23.19 they made a cushioÌ„ reade they made mariage a chushion 25.37 fast reade facte 26.37 canche rea couche 30.35 greatest rea great 31.1 reade instrumentes for the defence 46.33 for reade farre 47.30 sinnes reade sinner â—9 19 praedicate rea praeiudicate 64.37 fauteles r. fruictles 87.6 heauie reade hearie 89.2 as reade or 92.6 bitter reade better 95.31 paltinge r. peltinge 102.15 r. liklihodes nuÌ„bred 121.29 conuenientes reade conuenienter 127.13 r. to death a sinne not c. li. 28.10 rea to 139.34 vnrecoÌ„cyled reade that are reconciled 143.2 you reade her 151.27 hath rea hauing 156.5 can not reade can stande c. 205.29 to his brother rea to his brethren 210.14 faste reade facte â—24 31 reade forsakers 232.38 sorovving r. saying 238.10 clame r. exclame 248.1 an reade any 249.23 praie reade praied 255.19 Tecta reade Tecla 259.37 toti reade hi. 262.7 after vvritinges make a ful poinct l. 10. Troianus reade Traianus 14. BarlauÌ„ r. Barlaam 16. Ephraim r. Ephreem 265.27 and 29. Rhenamus reade Rhenanus 268.36 knavv rea knaue 277.17 shoulde seme reade as it shoulde seme 283.2 Capth r. Chapter 284.30 after decree reade concerning that vvhich vvas not c. 286.31 put out he 299.19 had reade hath 295.11 xemia rea xenia 307.8 mistrusted reade misconstrued 316.2 you vvil r. you vvil not 23. then rea thou 334.19 criall reade triall 335.31 put out in 347.1 same reade sunne right reade light 350.6 r. deceiueth c. 361.16 vnto reade in 361.29 profatam rea profoctam 364.31 vve before reade before vve 378.17 vindicemus reade iudicemus and line 37. either reade other 373.11 stringe r. springe 374.10 Consilio Meleuitano r. CoÌ„cilio Mileuitano 382.19 CommoÌ„ r. Cannon 386.31 degree r. pedigree 391.25 thou reade there 396.1 God reade man. 397.24 hidden r. sudden 399.15 as for vvitnesse reade for vvitnesses 406.6 the matter reade thy matter 409.32 make a full poincte after in deed and line 22. put out the full poincte after describeth 435.16 sparte r. sponte and line 29. superstition reade supposition 441.34 parleis rea paruis 443.2 vvhen rea vvhere 31. li. aliquid r. aliquod 447.2 strife reade stripe 455.33 named r. varied li. 34. shall rea should AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ. The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ. But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity WE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians
whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and reaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger
charge them with other authorities that the Papistes alleage beside the authoritie of holy scriptures And in his booke De Vniâ—ate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes the 16. chapter Sed vtril ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris oftendant quia nec nos c. But whether they holde the church or no let them shew none other wise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not say that men ought to beleue vs that we are in the Church because we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable other Byshops of our communion haue commended to vs or because it is set forth by the Councels of our felowe byshops or because so many myracles of hearing requests or healinges are don in the holy places which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole worlde so that the bodies of Martyrs which were hidden so many yeares which thinge if they will aske they may heare of many were reuealed vnto Ambrose and that at the same bodies one that had bene many yeares blinde very well knowen in the citie of Millayn receyued his eyes and eye sight either because this man dreamed or that man was rauished in the spirite and hearde a voice that he should not ioyne himselfe to Donatus or that he shoulde departe from the faction of Donatuâ— for when soeuer such thinges are don in the Catholike Church they are to be allowed because they are don in the Catholike church â–ª but the church it selfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike because these thinges are done in it By this Augustine declareth first that heretikes must be confuted onely by the scriptures and secondly that neither Councells succession of byshops vniuersality miracles visions dreames nor reuelations are the notes to trie the Catholike church but onely the scriptures Moreouer in his booke De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam c. A weake person seeketh the Church he wandreth and seeketh the church â–ª what sayest you The church is of Donatus side Enquire for the shepheards voice Reade me this out of some Prophet reade me this out of some Psalme rehearse me it out of the lawe rehearse it out of the Gospell rehearse it out of the Apostle out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed ouer all the worlde And a litle after Tu accusas non Euangelium c. Thou accusest not the Gospell thou accusest not the Prophet not the Apostle of whome this voyce speaketh to me I beleue him other I beleue not But thou wilt bring forth decrees I will also bring forth decrees shoulde I beleue thine beleue thou mine likewise I beleue not thine neither do thou beleue mine then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde sounde betwen vs bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side c. These places maye sufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church shoulde ouerthrowe heresies namely by the worde of God onely which thing also Leo the first byshop of Rome in his Epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainely confesseth saying Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem c. But those men fal into this foly which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth haue not recourse to the voyces of the Prophets not to the writings of the Apostles not to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues And therefore they become maisters of error because they haue not bene schollers of trueth Of the same iudgement was the whole Councell of Constantinople the sixt as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde haue simply and without subtiltie taken vpon them the preaching of the Gospell and haue bene content with the constitutions of the Apostles suerly matters shoulde haue bene well and in good case neither shoulde painefull contention haue bene exercised against the authors of heresies nor against the fauorers of priests Here the Councell confesseth that the heretikes and schismatikes grow so fast because they were not beaten downe by preaching of the Gospell and authority of the scriptures Thus I haue declared by example and authority of these Fathers that the true Church of Christ hath conuicted all heretikes onely by the scripture 2 And what Church it was that hath alwayes stande still and stedfast whilest all other Congregations as well of Arrians as Anabaptistes Aerians Nouatians Vigilantians Iouinians and the rest haue decaied THe true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast and vnseparable from Christ her heade when all heretikes haue bene and shal be confounded But the true Church hath not alwaies florished in wordly peace and tranquilitie for vntill the tyme of Constantine the great which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruell persecution in most places and soone after againe vnder the Emperors Constantius Constans and Valens it was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome was infected with the same heresie After that when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperor the temples of Idolls were opened and gentilitie againe restored so that the Church suffered great detriment To be short when the barbarous Goathes Vandales Alanes and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse But when Mahomet in the East Antichrist the Pope in the West seduced the world with most detestable heresie then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps the woman clothed with the Sonne which you your self confesse to be the Church was so persecuted by the Dragon that she fled into the wildernes there to remaine a long season Where she hath not decayed but ben always preserued vntil God should reueale Antichrist and bring her againe into open light which his holy name be praysed is now brought to passe in our dayes to our inestimable comfort and his euerlasting glory 3 And if it can be proued that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours hath mightely ouerthrowne these foresayd sectes and other of all sortes I recant IT hath bene already proued sufficiently that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onely by the worde of God as a most infallible rule hath ouerthrowne heresies of all sortes But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon by which heresies are cut downe to be sufficient for that purpose neuer was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretikes therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretikes not by authoritie of the Scriptures but by fire and sworde and cruell warre as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses Albigenses Bohemians and in our dayes with the true Christians But where her power of fire and sword could not preuayle there hath she not ouerthrowne such as she condemneth for
thankesgeuing which S. Paule affirmeth to be the doctrine of Diuells 1. Tim. 4. Also your distinctions and varieties of seruice because they consiste most of blasphemous prayers to dead Sainctes and sometimes to damned spirites with foolish lessons responses versicles c. Lewde lies and vncertaine tales which you reade and sing as God his seruice they are all abhominable In vaine do they worship me saith our Sauiour Christ teaching for doctrine the preceptes of men Math. 15. Also it was decreed in the Councell of Laodicea the 59. chapter that nothing should be song or reade in the Church but the Canonicall bookes of holy Scripture wherefore if you demande whence your ceremonies festiuall dayes fastes and varieties of seruice did proceede I aunswere plainely out of the bottomles pit of hell 2 From whence did all thinges yet indifferently for most part obserued and allowed on both sides from whence did they proceede IF you had vttered what thinges you meane that are so indifferently allowed on both sides we might better haue aunswered but seeing you haue not we must coniecture what you meane if you meane any thinge that is allowed without controuersie on both sides it did either proceede from the scripture of God or from the primitiue Church or else it a thing meerely indifferent but if it haue no grounde in holy Scripture nor example of the primitiue Church nor iudged meerely indifferent it not indifferently obserued for the most parte nor yet allowed on both sides 2 And if it can be proued that the Protestants Congregation or any other Church but ours hath instituted and ordered all these or any of these for the comelinesse and honour of God his house I recant I Haue aunswered before that the Protestants Congregation geueth you leaue to bragge that you are the inuentors of all these Idolatrous superstitions false worshipping of God and yet because you offer so liberally to recant if it can be proued that any Church but yours hath instituted and ordered all these thinges you shall heare what can be saide First your great doctor Durande plainely affirmeth that many of your ceremonies and solemnities had not their first institution of your church but were taken of the Iewes or Gentiles And it may easily be proued that many of your ceremonies were instituted of heretikes as your holy water which you say you vse to put men in minde of their baptisme was deriued of the heretikes called Hemerobaptistae which were baptized euery daye Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 1. cap. 17. Of the Ossenes you tooke the great estimation of water salt oyle breade c. and vse to sweare by them as they did Epiph. contra Ossenes 19. Of the same heretikes you receiued the superstition of reliques for they vsed to take the spittle and other filth from the bodies of Marthys and Marthana which were of the seede of Elxai that is great Sainctes with them and vsed them to cure diseases as Erasmus witnesseth at Canterbury were kept the clowtes that Thomas Becket did occupy to wipe of his sweate and to blow his nose on which were kissed as holy reliques and thought also to be holsom for sicke folkes of the same heretikes you learned to commande the people to pray in an vnknowene tongue as Elxai the great Pope of those heretikes sayde Nemo quaerat interpretationem sed solum in oratione haec dicat Let no man seeke the interpretation but onely saye these wordes in his prayer Which wordes were in a strange tong either the Hebrue or the Arabike Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 1. haeres 19. Likewise the Marcosians when they baptized vsed to speake certaine Hebrue wordes that the ignorant people might maruell the more at them as you doe in Baptisme Ephata c. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haer 34. To make the Images of Christ and of the Apostles and to sense them you learned of the heretikes called Gnostici and Carpocratiâ—ae Epip lib. 1. Tom. 2. in the preface Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 2. haer 27. and Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 23. Of the Valentinians you learned to haue in price the signe of the crosse and to abuse the places of scripture for the same superstitious vse as God forbidde that I shoulde reioice but in the crosse of Christ c. Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 1. Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 2. haeres 31. Of the Heracleonites you learned to annoynte men at the point of death with oyle and balme and to cast water vpon dead men with inuocations Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres 36. Of the Cayanes you learned to call vpon Angels Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres 38. Of the Marcionistes you learned to giue women leaue to baptize Ep. lib. 1. Tom. Haer. 42. George Bishop of Alexandria inuented beares to carry deade corpses charging all men to vse them for his owne aduantage as doe you Papistes your bearing clothes other toyes for funerall pompes Ep. lib. 3. Tom. 1. Haer. 76. Of the Colliridianes you learned to make images of the virgine Marie worship them her with offering of candells c. as they did of cakes c. Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 79. Of the Messalians or Martirians you learned to shaue your beardes and to let your lockes grow long Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 80. Of the Pharizees you receaued your superstitious masking garments which you call amictus dalmaticus and pallia as witnesseth Epiphanius in his epistle to Acacius and Paulus Last of all what say you to the ceremonies festiuities fastes and solemnities vsed in the Greeke Church and in the other Oriental Churches if they be sufficient to make their church Catholâ—ke why doe you count them heretikes and Schismatikes if they be not sufficient why doe you reason of the instiâ—ution of the like to proue your Church Catholike You see that proued which you desired play the honest man therfore and recant The 7. article conteineth 3. demaundes 1 Further I aske them what Church that is which hath brought forth out of her wombe so many noble personages of Martyrs Confessors Doctors Virgines and holy Sainctes of all sortes all which both they and we doe outwardly professe by the continuance of the Callendare which yet is vsed euery where to be Sainctes in heauen FVrther I aunswere you that all true Sainctes whether they were Patriarches Prophets Apostles EuaÌ„gelistes Martyrs Confessors Doctors Scholars Virgins wiues widowes married or vnmarried are all children of that Church in whose fellowship we reioyce to be and are our deare brethren and sistern begotten in Iesu Christ by the gospell and we all hold of one head Iesus Christ as members of his mysticall body We all beleue to be receaued into that glory that they are by the onely meane that they were that is by the mercie of God in Christ Iesus But as for the continuance of the Callendar we haue litle respect vnto it yea no regard at all to vse it either as a recorde or as a register of those whom we acknowledge to
be Sainctes in heauen Let the Prince make you aunswere for the continuance of such callēders for we haue not to do with them Neuerthelesse because you speake of a Callendar that is vsed euery where you declare that you haue small experience in Callendars for euery cuntry hath them diuers in most dayes except holy dayes and in some cuntry Callendars such dayes are festiuall to those Saincts that haue not their names in Callendars of other cuntries yea it may be doubted whether they haue their names in the booke of life If you sawe a Bohemians Callendar perhaps if you shoulde see Iohn Hus and Ierom of Prage which your church condemned for heretikes and haue as solemne feastes in the Callender as Peter and Paule wherefore we acknowledge those to be Sainctes in deede not whose names are continued in the Callendars of men but are written in the booke of life of the Lambe that was slaine from the beginning of the worlde Apoc. 13. 2 And if it can be proued by any man of the Protestancy that these were either of the Protestants Congregation or beleefe when they were aliue IT is sufficiently proued against you of the Papistrie that all they whome we acknowledge to be Sainctes in heauen are members of the same mysticall bodie of Christ that we are and hold the onely foundation that we hold which is Iesus Christ and although some of them builded straw and stubble vpon the same foundation yet the Lorde hath not imputed it vnto them But wheras the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles were cheefe lightes and pillers of the church of Christ the daye is yet to come and euer shal be that all you of the Papistrie shal be able to charge vs with one pointe of our faith contrary to the doctrine of the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles 3 Or canonized and allowed for Sainctes by the Protestantes Church when they were deade or by any other Church then I recant OVr Church doth take all them that shew the fruicts of a liuely faith to be Sainctes while they be aliue as well as after their death and we say with Dauid All my delight is in the Sainctes that are in the earth Psal. 16. and with S. Paule VVe labour to comprehend with all Sainctes what is the length breadth depth and heigth and to know the loue of christ Ephes. 3. Finally the scripture teacheth vs to call all them that are sanctified in the bloude of Christ and called to the felowship of the Gospell holy and Sainctes of God. 1. Cor. 1. Ephes. 1. c. Wherefore your Popish church doth great iniury to the Sainctes of God first because she doth not so accompt them while they liue and secondly because she referreth the canonization of them only to the Pope who not for their holy life maketh them Sainctes but for the holy honger of golde as appeare by Pope Iuly 2. who woulde not canonize king Henry the sixt at the request of king Henry the seuenth vnder an vnreasonable summe of money If that summe of money had bene paide he shoulde haue bene a sainct though he had not deserued not for his vertue And because that summe of money was not paide he might not be canonized although his godlinesse neuer so much deserued Againe of what force your Canonization is to be esteemed we may learne by a fact of Pope Boniface the 8. who condemned digged vp and burned the bodie of Hermannus in Ferraria 30. yeares after his buriall who had bene worshipped for a sainct aboue 20. yeares before as witnesseth Platina and other Gregorie the seuenth canonized Pope Liberius which was an Arrian as S. Hieronym testifieth Moreouer if I shoulde likewise demande of you what Pope canonized Peter Paule and the rest of the Apostles yea most of the Martyrs of the primitiue Church you shall neuer be able to shew me either what Pope did it or that any Pope did it For seeing none may canonize but the Pope in your church and you can not proue that the Pope hath canonized the Apostles and cheefe Martyrs you can not proue that your church hath canonized the Apostles and principall Martyrs But it is manifest that your canonization is taken from the heathen Senate of Rome which chalenged authority to make Gods whome they them selues thought best And if I shoulde rippe vp the most parte of those Sainctes which haue bene canonically canonized by the Pope it were an easie matter to finde them heretikes traitors Necromancers Whoremongers and whores as you may reade in Bales Votaries aboundantly beleuing his reporte no farther than he alleageth his Author where you maye finde it Wherefore it were wisedome for you not to depend vpon the Pope his Canonization but vpon God his approbation and to recante The 8. article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 And because Christ as S Paule sayeth hath established in his Church some Apostles some Prechers some Teachers and Doctors euen vntill his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is able to shew proue the continuance and vse of the saide functions euer sence Christes time by plaine accompt of orderly Succession I Aunswere the Papist that Christ hath geuen to his Church some Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastors and Teachers Ephes. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. And we are able to shew proue that we continue in that vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God for which ende such offices were ordeyned But whereas you require that we should shew you the continuance of those functions by orderly succession from Christes his time vntill our dayes you declare how small skill you haue in vnderstanding the scriptures for the offices of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophetes were not appoincted to continue alwayes in the Church but for a time vntill the Gospell had taken roote in the worlde Moreouer whereas you requier an orderly succession according to persons or places you are neuer able to proue that any such thing was promised to the Church that we should shew you the performance thereof in our Church Otherwise we doubt not but God hath alway stirred vp some faithfull teachers that haue instructed his Church in the necessarie poinctes of Christian Religion Although the worlde and the church of Antichrist did not alwayes see them 2 And is able to name you by the histories of all ages the notable personnes of all the forsaide states in their gouernment and ministerie AGaine I answere you that you are not able to name me any text of scripture by which you can proue that al these offices must haue perpetual cōtinuance in the church of Christ nor yet that any of them should kepe an ordinarie succession of place or persons But contrariwise seeing it was prophecied that the church should flie into the wildernes that is be driuen out of the sight and knowledge of the wicked and be so narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a longe season it were a token our church were not the true
sermon in such sorte that the common people might vnderstand it and in the 45. Canon they decreed that euery Christian shoulde learne the Creede and the Lorde his prayer Et qui aliter non potuerit vel in sua lingua hoc discat that is And he that can not yet let him learne it in his owne tongue Whereby they declare that they desier to reteine the latine tongue still but rather than the people shoulde be ignorant they commande them to learne their prayers and beleefe in their mother tongue Also by the 43. Canon wherein they iudge that no preeste can saye Masse alone it appeareth that the people commonly vnderstood the latine seruice for they aske how he shoulde saye Dominus vobiscum and admonish the people to lifte vp their heartes and diuers like sayinges where there is none by him but him selfe Nowe if the people vnderstoode not these sayinges it were all one whether they were present or absent Also in the Councell of Rhenes holden in Fraunce about the same time the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops studie to preache sermons and homelies of the holy fathers so that all men maye vnderstand according to the property of their tongue Finally in the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the third Anno Dom. 1215. in which Councell transubstantiation was first established the 9. chapter it was plainely decreed that forasmuch as within one citie and diocesse people of diuers languages be mingled together hauing vnder one Faith diuers rites and maners we streightly commande that the bishops of such cities and diocesses prouide able men which according to the diuersitie of their rites and languages celebrate vnto them the diuine seruice and minister the sacramentes instructing them both by worde and example Hereby it appeareth that when the latine tongue was either almost or altogether growen out of the common peoples vnderstandings order was taken that common prayers should be sayed and sacramentes ministred in the mother tongue of euery nation But the bishops which shoulde haue seene it put in execution either negligently omitted it or willingly refused to doe it because it was more for their profit to kepe the people in blinde ignorance So thus I haue shewed that sodenly the tongue of common prayer was not altered 10 Tell me what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope by whome these thinges were wrought vpon what occasion this marueillous mutation was made WHo can tell the originall of euery blind custome and peuish tradition of euery olde error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to shew that these thinges haue no grounde in the scripture of God they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles nor receiued in the church that followed immediatly after them and then we are bolde to say with Tertullian This preiudice there is against all heresies how soeuer they came vp or when soeuer they sprange vp That is true that was first and that is false that is latter therefore from the beginning it was not vsed to praye for the deade nor to the deade from the beginning common prayer was not in an vnknowen tongue Wherefore prayer for the deade and to the deade with prayer in a strange tongue are false when soeuer they beganne or how long soeuer they continued 11 VVho preached against it what historie maketh mention of it who of all your Pastors preached against it was God his Church so voide of the spirit of Trueth and strength that euen then when it most florished it had none that durst open against â—uch corruption of religion as it entred in and when it might soone haue bene repressed BEfore you demande what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and whether it came in sodenly and as though we shoulde aunswere that it came in sodainely you demande who preached against it c. This is to fight with your owne shadowe for we say not that it came in sodainely but that it entred by small degrees at the first and therefore was lesse espied by the true Pastors especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies and open aduersaries that sought to beate downe the cheefe foundations of Christian faith as the Valentinians Marcionistes Manichees Arrians Sabellians and such like monsters So when Satan had gotten in one foote by such craftie pollitie he neuer rested vntill he had thrust in his whole bodie with the power of Antichrist 12 If it coulde not shew me then what yeare of the Lorde this mutation was made and who of all the true preachers did with stand this doctrine SO often as you demande one thinge so often must I aunswere after one sorte this mutation was not all in one yeare nor in one hundreth yeares nor in one thousand of yeares for transubstantiation no small article of your religion was not decreed vntill the yeare of God 1215. what preachers haue withstoode your doctrine at diuers times are declared before in the aunswere to the 8. Article 2. demande 13 Or note the name of him that euer first preached any article of our doctrine and if we note you not by their names euery one of your Capitaines and the seuerall errors that they tought and the time and the yeare when they arose against the former receyued trueth and the Councells in which they were orderly condemned if I saye this can be done of your side towarde vs or if we doe it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recant I Haue noted in the answere to the 6. article 3. demande the names of diuers heretikes that first preached diuers articles of your religion and further I note vnto you Pelagius and Coelestius which tought that free will without grace coulde doe somewhat towardes eternall saluation and that grace was geuen according to merite which article you teach also with culler of a distinction De congruo condigno which is a meere cauill for God is as much bounde vnto congruitie as to dignitie or worthinesse and as he can doe nothing against worthinesse no more can he doe any thing against congruitie which is a kinde of Equitie And whereas you bragge to note vnto vs euery one of our Capitaines c. except you note vnto vs the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euangelistes and Christ himselfe you shall neuer be able to performe that you promise for we teache nothing but the eternall trueth of God wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretikes if you can proue that we holde any one article of faith contrarie to the scripture you may perchaunce note the names of them that preaching the trueth of our doctrine against your receyued errors were accounted of the world for heretikes but you must proue that their opinions are contrarie to the worde of God or els all your labour is in vaine we confesse also that some articles of our doctrine were taught by heretikes as there was neuer no heresie which had not many thinges common with true Religion but yet in
prayer what waye of ministring of the sacraments your Church had before Papistry as you call it did preuaile in the worlde IVstinus Martyr in his second Apollogie to the Emperour declareth plainely what order of seruice and ministration of sacramentes our Church had before Papistry preuayled On the daye called Sonday sayth he there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the Citie or in the countrie and the monumentes of the Apostles or the writinges of the Prophetes are reade vntill it be thought sufficient when the reader hath made an ende he that is our ouerseer or cheefe minister maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good thinges that are reade After this we all stande vp together and make our prayers and as we haue saide before when our prayers are ended there is brought forth bread and wine water and the cheefe minister doth likewise with all his might yelde prayers and thankesgeuing and the people aunswereth Amen Then is made distribution to euery one and receyuing of those thinges for which thankes was geuen and to them that be absent it is sent by the deacons Such as are riche and willing doe geue almes what they will c. By this one authoritie it may be seene though other might be brought what order of seruice and ministration of sacraments our Church vsed before Papistry gat the vpper hande 2 Shew one booke of Communion or what els you list that was in English or lacked prayer for the departed or inuocation of Sainctes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receyue or els that the preest coulde not consecrate nor say Masse himselfe or shew any note in a Communion booke that the people shoulde take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should geue no honor to it shew this booke or any leafe or line of this booke IT may trouble a wise man to aunswere all the questions that a foole can propounde you requier to see a booke of Communion in English or that lacked c. When it is confessed that the English nation receiued their religion first from Rome at such time as Religion there was verie corrupt what marueill is it if we can not shewe you such a Communion booke as you require but we can easily shew you out of the scripture the the Communion ought to be ministred in the vulgare tongue that prayer for the deade and to the deade ought not to be vsed that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a priuate masse that the substance of the bread is not changed that the elementes of the sacrament are not to be honored these I say we can proue out of the worde of God the Catholike writers of the olde Church And though perchaunce it wil be harde to finde a communion booke in English yet haue I founde you a canon of the Laterane Councell that it ought to haue bene translated into English yet are there founde diuers monumentes of Antiquitie as Prayers Psalmes and Homilies c. in the olde English or Saxons tongue in which the reall presence transubstantiation and other poinctes of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted There may be shewed you also Bybles both the olde Testament and New in the English tongue of diuers translations in olde written hande Also great bookes of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in olde English written hande with diuers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters if these woulde do you any good you might haue the sight of them when you please 3 Or any Church or Congregation that euer had any Authenticall seruice but ours and I recant THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in with Romish seruice had they not trow you Authenticall seruice which continued in the faith of Christ euen from the Apostles time The Grecians also Orientall churches haue they not vnto this day their Authenticall seruice which is not yours If you can not deny this you should recant The 13. article hath 2. demaundes 1 Furthermore I requier to know what shoulde be the cause that the Protestants them selues doe receiue all Byshops Priestes Deacons and other officers spirituall of all sortes of our Catholike church and doe admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered both to preach minister sacraments and to exercise spirituall iurisdiction no lesse but rather more than if they were of their owne ordering where we of the Catholike church doe not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fitte for any spirituall function than other lay men ALthough all godly men wishe more seueritie of discipline to be vsed in receyuing them that come out of heresies to serue in the Church than is commonly practised in England yet you are highlie deceyued if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops priests deacōs any better than the state of lay men but farre worse for we iudge them to be nothing els but Antichristianitie heresie and blasphemie And therefore we receiue none of them to minister in our church except they forsweare your religion And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering but a new calling vnto the ministerie 2 Therefore vpon this presumption that they doe not onely admit our ministring of sacraments but also the lawfull ordering of the ministers for the same if they can shew me why our church hauing by their owne consent and approuing lawfull priestes and bishops should not be the true church I recant YOu presume to much as I saide before to thinke that we receiue your orderinge to be lawfull or your ministring of sacraments to be pure And if you gather that we admitte your ministration of sacraments because we doe not rebaptize them that were baptized by you we maye likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments because you doe not rebaptize them that are baptized of vs nor marrie againe those that are married in our Church wheras you compt mariage to be a sacrament so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church than your accepting of our doinges doth allow our Church And as touching the sacrament of Baptisme because you reteyne the Institution in baptizing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost and in asmuch as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister but of God we receiue it as of other heretikes which likewise reteine the Institution Wherefore there is no cause why you shoulde thinke we allow yours to be the true Church thereby So that there is good cause why you shoulde recant The 14. article hath 5. demandes 1 Also I demande what furniture or commodity in seruing God the Christianity of any age or any part of Christendome had euer by your Congregations THe seruice of God hath small neede of furniture in outwarde thinges for
God being a spirite is not worshipped with outward pompe but with spirituall and inwarde reuerence And as for other furniture that is necessary was decreed to the Church by the Emperour Constantine and his successors that were of our Church before the reuelatiō of Antichrist Notwithstāding the Church was in better case before such furniture was graunted than it was since Therefore it is a small reason to chalenge the Church of Christ by outwarde furniture 2 VVhat Churches did you builde for your assemblies and seruice OVr assemblies were kept in secret places long time after Christes Ascension in most cuntries that were subiect to the Romane empire Wherefore the building of materiall churches proueth nothing at all the builders to be members of the mystical Church that is the body of christ Howbeit in such realmes and cuntries where the faith of Christ was receiued by publike authoritie as in this lande of Brytaine there were churches builded as our Chronicles declare And when Constantinus had geuen peace to the Church he also builded Oratories and great Synagoges called Basilicas for our assemblies and seruice 3 VVhat Bishoprickes for the gouernment of the Church did you finde AS the church continued longe without materiall churches so also without large possessions for the lyuing of bishops yet in Brytish Church our histories make mention that the possessions and places of the Pagane Flamines and Archiflamines were conuerted to the vse of Ecclesiastical bishops and archbishops so soon as Lucius the king receiued the faith Also the same histories do testifie that when Augustine came into Britayn there were still 7. bishops and one archbishop among the Britaines And in the Romane Empier Constantinus and other Christian Emperors appointed great possessions for the mainteyning of the ministers of the Church 4 VVhat Vniuersities Schooles or Colledges did you euer erect THe Church of God hath alwayes had schooles or Vniuersities for the mainteinance of godly learning For the first Colledges of monkes in solitary places were nothing els but Colledges of studentes that were after as occasion serued taken to serue in the Church as appereth by Chrysostome in his booke De Sacerdotio where he sheweth that Basilius who was a Monke with him was taken by violence and made a minister of the church as he him selfe was afterwarde Also in the bishops house was a colledge of studentes and our histories testifie that at Bangor in Wales was a great Vniuersitie of learned men Also of late dayes you may heare that diuerse Vniuersities Scholes and Colleges are erected by Protestants in Germanie and other contries that haue receiued the gospel As at Wittemberge Geneua Zuriche Conigsperge in Prussia c. 5 Name one Church not builded in all fashions as well for the making of the chancells the forme of the aultars the vse of the chalices the signification of the vestiments as also for the speciall intent of the builders thereof Name one of them in the whole Church of Christ either erected for your Faith Church seruice or not prepared in all sorts for catholike practises Proue vnto me that any of all those thinges were euer prouided for any other seruice and Religion then ours or that they be monuments of any other Fayth and Church then the common Catholike and I recant HEre are many wordes to litle purpose What if it were graunted that all churches that now remaine were builded by Papistes and for popish vses what had you wonne thereby The same chalenge might the Idolaters haue made to the Apostles Shew vs a temple in all the worlde that was not builded by Idolaters and to mainteyne Idolatrie Certeinly they could shew none when the Temple of Ierusalem was destroyed But for all your bragges we are able to shewe that such Churches as were builded by true Christians were not builded to such ende as yours are for they were all builded in the honour of God and the most of yours in the honour of creatures for wheras you haue one Church in the honour of Christ you haue neare a thousand in the honour of Sainctes For Basilius magnus in his 141. epistle proueth the holy Ghost to be God because he hath a Temple For Omne Templum Dei Templum est Euery temple is the temple of god Also Didymus in his booke De spiritu sancto which S. Ieronym translateth vseth the same reason and to the same purpose S. Augustine in the same matter is very plentifull as in his booke De vera Religione cap. 55. speaking of the Sainctes he sayth Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute nec eis templa construimus c. Wherfore we honour them with loue and not with seruice neither doe we build temples vnto them for they wil not be so honored of vs because they know that we our selues when we are good are the temples of the highest In this saying beside his iudgement for building of temples note that he will not haue Sainctes to be honored with seruice which he calleth seruitus and is the same that dulia is contrary to the Papistes which will worship them with seruice called dulia or seruitus Also in his 174. epistle to Pascentius he sayth the holy Ghost could not haue our bodies to be tēples except he were God And in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 56. he sayth howe should he not be God which hath a temple Also in the 8. booke cap. 27. De ciuitate Dei. Nec tamen nos ijsdem martyribus templa c. he sayeth Christians builde no temples vnto Martyrs which were to make them gods And in the 22 booke cap. 10. De ciuitate Dei. Nos autem Martyribus nostris non templa sicut dijs sed memorias sicut hominibus mortuis quorum apud Deum viuunt spiritus fabricamus Nec ibi erigimus altaria in quibus sacrificemus martyribus sed vni Deo martyrum nostro sacrificium immolamus ad quòd sacrificium sicut homines Dei qui mundum in eius confessione vicerunt suo loco ordine nominantur non tamen à sacerdote qui sacrificat inuocantur Deo quippe non ipsis sacrificat quamuis in memoria sacrificet eorum quia Dei sacerdos est non illorum Ipsum verò sacrificium corpus est Christi quod non offertur ipsis quia hoc sunt ipsi that is We truely do not build temples to our martyrs as vnto gods but memories as vnto dead men whose soules liue with god Neither doe we there set vp aultars in which we should sacrifice vnto the martyrs but to God onely which is God both of the martyrs and of vs doe we offer sacrifice at which sacrifice they are named in their place and order as men of God which haue ouercome the world in his confession yet are they not called vpon by the Priest that doth sacrifice for he offereth sacrifice to God and not to them although he doe sacrifice in their memorie because he is the Priest of
which we are iustified 2 Or in thinges where they doubt be contented to submit their seuerall meaninge to the iudgement of their Superiours THe Greeke church in doubtes will be ruled by the Patriarch of Constantinople and so will the rest of the Orientall churches by their cheefe Patriarches and bishops And the Protestants in Europe will also be ruled by their Superiours so farre as their superiors are ruled by Gods his worde 3 And to that communion and companie wherof they be name any companie of men agreeing and thus humbly affected in Christes Religion sauing the blessed fellowship and members of the Catholike communion and I recant TO the communion and company of the Grecians I name the Moscouites and Russians agreeing in Religion and so humbly affected and these are not of the fellowship that you call the Catholike communion Among the Protestants to the church of Saxonie I name the church of Dennemarcke or to the church of Helâ—etia the church of France or to the church of England the church of Scotlande but so that none of these allow any consent or submission but to the Truth which must be tried onely by God his worde And seeing none of these are of the Popish communioÌ„ if your promise be any thing worth you must recant The 16. article conteyneth one demande and one chalenge Furthermore name any one man that is confessed on both sides by the iudgement of the world to be holy and learned a member of the true Church in what age soeuer you list sence Christes time and proue him to haue bene in all articles of Faith of the Protestants meaninge SEeing you geue so large scope I will name S. Paule who I thinke is coÌ„fessed on both sides to be holy and learned and a member of the true Church whome I can proue by his writinges that in all articles of faith he taught the same which we beleeue And for triall of this because it woulde requier a whole volume if I shoulde proue euery particular article wherein we dissent from you Papistes If you will name an article wherein we agree not with S. Paule If I be not able to proue that we agree with him in the meaninge thereof I will reuoke that article and agree with you therein Yea if I bring not the aduersaries them selues to acknowledge in the ende him to be wholy against their doctrine in diuers of articles of great importance and therefore that he coulde not be of their church I recant YOu shall neuer bring vs neither in the beginning nor in the end to acknowledge that S. Paule is against vs in any article of our Faith but we agree wholy with him Neuerthelesse I know what you meane will not be afraide to vtter Forasmuch as immediatly after the Apostles time corruption entred into the Church which was hardly kept out while they liued as we maye learne by the Epistle to the Corinthians you thinke that we dare not depende vpon any one mans iudgement and therein you are not deceiued for we must depende onely vppon Gods worde But where you saye there is none but he dissenteth from vs in diuers articles of great importance you saye vntruely for you are not able to proue that Iustinus Martyr or Irenaeus two of the most ancient authenticall writers that the Church next vnto the Apostles had are against vs in any point of doctrine wherein we differ from you Yet are there certaine errors in them which neither you nor we allow as is touched before in the answere to the 11. article 1. deman But they are both wholly against you in diuers articles of your doctrine and namely in transubstantiatioÌ„ which is one of the greatest articles of Poperie as Irenaeus in the 34. cap. of his 4. booke Contra haereses Quemadmodum enim qui est a terra panis c.. Euen as the breade â–ª which is of the earth after it hath receyued the inuocation of God is not now common breade but the Eucharistie or breade of thankes geuing consisting of two thinges earthly heauenly so our bodies receyuing the Eucharistie are not now corruptible hauing hope of resurrection Here you see plainely that Irenaeus affirmeth the sacrament after consecration to consist of the earthly substance of breade which maye better be vnderstoode when we know that he reasoneth against such heretikes as denied the world to be made by God saying that he woulde neuer haue made so great a mysterie of bread which is a creature of the world if the worlde had not bene made by him Iustinus in his second Apologie to the Emperour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We doe not receiue these thinges as common breade and a common cuppe but euen as Iesus Christ our Sauiour was incarnate by the worde of God and tooke vpon him flesh and bloude for our saluation So we are taught that this meate for which thankes is geuen by the worde of prayer from him of which our fleshe and bloude are nourished by transmutation is the fleshe and bloude of Iesus that was incarnate Here he plainely affirmeth that the substance of the Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of our bodies Therfore it remaineth still after the consecration The other writers of later yeares as they haue some errors which neither you nor we doe allow in them so we are not afraid to confesse that they haue some corruption wherby you may seeme to haue colour of defence for inuocation of Sainctes prayer for the dead and diuerse superstitious and superfluous ceremonies yet not so addict to these nor ioyned with such absurdities as yours are But for the chiefe pointes of Christian Religion and the foundation of our faith that is for the honour of God the offices of Christ Redemption Iustification Satisfaction the fruites of Christ his passion Grace faith workes authoritie of God his word authoritie of the Pope reall presence transubstantiation Communion in both kindes Images c. the most approued writers Tertullian Cyprian Origen Epiphanius Hilarius Chrysostomus Ieronymus Ambrosius Augustinus c. are vtterly against you and therfore can not be of your church But for as much as they hold the foundation that is Christ though they haue diuerse errors superstitions they were doubtles the members of the true Church of Christ which because you are not able to disproue reason would you should recant The 17. Article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 I aske of them whether the Lutherans Zuinglians Illirians Caluenistes Confessionistes Swenkefeldians Anabaptistes and such like be all of one Church BEcause you would make simple men beleue that there be so many diuerse sectes of Protestantes as you haue giuen them names I will first discusse these sectes and afterwarde aunswere your question Lutherans you meane them that follow Luthers opinion of the Sacrament Zuinglians follow Caluines iudgement of the same Confessionistes them that exhibited their confession at Auspurge which were both the Lutherans and Zuinglians so these 3 names may be contracted
Catholike Church then can you no more condemne vs then Christ and his Apostles that were not onely not called the true Church but also were called heretikes deceiuers by the people of the Iewes which were as rightly called God his people as they that giue you the name of Catholike Church are called the Christian world It is well you haue nothing better to proue your Church then the honorable name of Catholike nor any thing more to condēne our Church then that we are not called Catholike and yet we haue as many nations and more then you haue that by publike authoritie call vs Catholikes and you heretikes although you most shamefully sclaunder vs that we doe refuse the name being offered vnto vs Seeing you boast so much of the name Catholike you shall heare what some of the old writers iudged thereof Chrysostome in an homelie that he writeth of Adam and Eue in the later ende hath these words after he hath tolde them that he hath no neede to repeate such depe questions as those men haue handled which haue fought against heretikes Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium that is we beleue that what so euer the Apostles haue taught vs according to the foresayd rules is sufficient in so much that in no wise we thinke that to be Catholike which shall appeare to be contrary to the sentences before determined By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to haue the name of Catholike for he iudged nothing to be Catholike in deede that was contrary to the rule groūded in the writings of the Apostles Wherfore how so euer you boast of the honorable name of Catholike except you can proue that your opinions agree with the Scripture they are not Catholike in deede by Chrysostomes iudgement S. Augustine also in his booke de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholike faith sayth This is an article thereof that we should beleue Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est That he hath appoynted a mother Church which is called Catholike of this because it is vniuersally perfect halteth in nothing and is dispersed ouer all the worlde S. Augustine here is not content that the Church be onely called Catholike but sheweth when it is that which it is called and therefore the popish Church not being vniuersally perfect as most Papists will confesse that many thinges in their church haue neede of reformation halting in many thinges from the truth of God his worde neither yet being dispersed ouer all the world but conteyned in a corner of Europa is not by S. Augustines rule the Catholike Church Furthermore S. Augustine cōtra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainely declareth how farre forth not onely the name of Catholike but also how farre vniuersally consent succession antiquitie are to be allowed Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam c. Therefore to omitte this wisedom which you do beleue to be in the Catholike Church there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosome The cōsent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope encreased with charitie confirmed by antiquitie doth hold me The succession of Priestes from the very seate of Peter the Apostle vnto whom our Lord after his resurrection committed his sheepe to be fedde euen vnto this present bishopricke doth hold me Last of all that very name of Catholike doth hold me which name not without a cause this Church alone hath so obteyned among so many heresies that wheras all heretiks would be called Catholikes yet when a stranger shall aske where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shew him either their principall temple or house All this you will say maketh exceeding much for vs yea but heare that which followeth Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit proponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor that is But among you where there is none of these thinges that may prouoke or holde me there soundeth the onely promise of truth which if it be shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt is to be preferred before all those thinges by which I am holden in a Catholike Church By this you may plainly see that though consent antiquitie succession and the name of Catholike be good confirmation when they are ioyned with the truth yet when a truth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all it is truth that maketh Catholike to be estemed and not Catholike that giueth authoritie to truth Wherefore seeing it were better to proue your Church to be Catholike then to boast that it is so called to disproue our Church so to be then to say it is not so called The best way for you is to recant The 21. article conteyneth but one demande 1 Moreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in that time in which they holde the true church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the Catholike church was bounde to goe from that church which they sawe and taught them both the article and all other thinges touching their faith and by which they were Christened and receyued all other sacraments and commodities of saluation whether they were bounde I say to beleue this vnknowen and close Congregation which they coulde neuer come vnto nor by which they euer receiued or coulde receiue any benefit and so forsake that church by whom and in whom they receiued both their faith and sacraments Shew me therefore that the Christian men of these dayes were charged to beleeue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptized them and I recant THis demande is like a drunken mans dreame hauing neither heade nor foote whether they shoulde beleue the church was lost whether they shoulde beleue the church that was vnknowen to them c. But if your demande haue any sense in it This is my aunswere The church was neuer lost but hidden from the eyes of the worlde Therefore if the people that where taught that article To beleue the Catholike church and were baptized to your church vnderstood that this church was not the Catholike church which was so commonly called but that God had a secret Congregation which was in deed the true Catholike church they were bound to forsake your church and to beleue the secret Congregation for if a man had ben baptized
Marsilius of Padua preached in France when VValdo preached at Lyons and there about In England when VVickliffe taught in Bohemia when Iohn Hus and Ieronyme of Prage did florishe 2 Or that it might be called holy which neuer had Baptisme or other sacramentes to sanctifie any of her followers withall IT had the spirite of God to sanctifie the true members of it and it had sacramentes to testifie the same Also did not the Bohemians baptise Were not pauperes de Lugduno baptised c. But if you count their Baptisme no Baptisme why did you not rebaptize in Queene Maries time all those that were baptized by our Church in King Edwards time 3 Or that it should be one which as soone as it grew vp in the world was diuided into so many sundry sectes NOne of vs will graunt you that our Church began first to grow when it was last brought to light and knowledge of the world for it hath continued euen since christ But if there arose or were renewed many heresies with it that is no new matter but an olde practise of the deuill For as soone as the Church of Christ beganne to grow vp after his ascension euen in the Apostles time there were many sectes and heresies As the Iewes that mainteyned the lawe they that denyed the Resurrection among the Corinthians Hymenaeus and Philetus Simon Magus Cerinthus Ebion Marcion Basilides Valentinus Carpocrates c. So that there were many more heresies at the first preaching of the Gospell in and immediatly after the Apostles time then at the last restoring of the publike preaching therof vnto the worlde in our dayes And yet the Apostolike Church was one Church and so is ours at this day one and the same 4 Or that it might be called Apostolike which could neuer coūt by orderly succssion from any Apostle or Apostolike man. YOu are neuer able to answere the arguments that are brought to proue that Peter was neuer Bishoppe at Rome And then where is all your braggs of Apostolike sea and succession c. But be it that Peter was there except you proue succession of doctrine and faith as wel as succession of men your successiō is not worth a straw And our Church which holdeth all the doctrine of the Apostles and none other but the doctrine of the Apostles shall be truely called and founde the Apostolike Church when your with all her succession of Antichristes whore whoremongers heretikes Sodomites blasphemers coniurers c. shabe Apostaticall rather than Apostolicall 5 Or the secret base contemptible defaced and disordered Congregation was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all Nations HOw base and contemptible soeuer it be in the eyes of the wicked despisers of it yet did it not only require but also subdue all nations to the obedience of the Faith so many as were euer subdued in the dayes of the first Christian Emperors and before And sence when it was most defaced by the tyrannie of Antichrist it was of such maiestie that it both required and obteined the obedience of the realme of Bohemia and in processe of time hath obteined the obedience of almost all the nations of Europe If the churche of Rome reteine the like maiestie why doth it not now requier the like obedience of all nations both Christians and Turkes you will saye It requireth but it can not obteine Euen so I aunswere of our Church it hath alwayes bene worthy to requier but it hath not pleased God that it shoulde alwaies obteine 6 Or that it was euer able to gather generall Councels THe foure best generall Councells were gathered by our Church and the Emperors that were defenders of the same and not by the byshops of Rome Neither were they Presidentes in them as it is manifest that other men were Authors of the Canons or distinctions As of the Nicene Alexander Bishop of Constantinople of the Constantinopolitane Nectarius byshop of the Ephesine Cyrillus byshop of Alexandria of the Chalcedonense Anatolius of Constantinople c. and in other generall Councells where the bishop of Rome was president I aunswere as Iohn Patriarche of Antioche did in the Councell of Basile his presidence was Honoraria ad beneplacitum Concilij eis data non authoritatiua nisi ex concessione aut permissione habente vim concessionis aut ex tolerantia that is For honor sake graunted to them so long as it shoulde please the Councell and not of authority but either by graunt or permission being of the force of a graunt or els of sufferance And I conclude as he doth the Pope was neuer President either of honor or of authority but by the graunt or permission of the Councell And how is the Popish church able to gather general Councells at this daye who will come at her calling Except a few Spaniardes and a ioly company of buckram bishops of Italie generall Councells of all the worlde can neuer be gathered but either whē there is a Monarchie or els which is not to be looked for that all the Princes of the worlde will consent together 7 Or exercise Discipline BEcause this demande hath bene aunswered so often before I will saye the lesse nowe The free course of discipline in time of persecution may be hindred As it was in S. Cyprians time when the members of the Church be dispersed but the power of discipline hath alwayes remained and when occasion serued bene executed As the Bohemians excommunicated the Adamites and the ciuill Magistrates punished them by the sworde 8 Or that these names proper by scripture and Doctors of the true Church coulde be euer chalenged by any right to their saide Congregation AS many of these names as are proper to the Church by scripture or Doctors agreeing with scripture haue bene alwayes iustly chalenged of right to perteine to our Church and Congregation I meane these 1 Corpus Christi OVr Church doth rightly chalenge to be the body of Christ which acknowledgeth Christ to be her only head Sauiour Redeemer Priest King Intercessor c. The Popishe church can not chalenge this name because she doth not acknowledge Christ to be theese only and wholly 2 Sponsa Christi THe spouse of Christ heareth the voice of Christ and is ruled thereby so doth our Church therefore she is spouse of christ But the Romish church goeth a whoringe after her owne inuentions committeth grosse idolatry and will in no wise be ruled only by the voice of Christ there she is not the spouse of Christ. 3 Vencidilecta Christo. HOwe tenderly Christ loueth his Church the true members thereof which haue receiued the first frutes of his spirit do better vnderstand in hart thā can be expressed with words howe he abhorreth the whore of Babylon the Romishe Synagoge the Scripture doth plentifully declare 4 Columba speciosa OVr Church expressing the simplicitie of a fayer doue may iustly chalenge this name But the Babylonicall Strompet your church in crafte and subtilitie is more
like a foxe than a doue 5 Domus Dei. THe true Church in which we are is the house or familie of God which he gouerneth by his stewardes the sincere preachers of his word The popish church is the Synagoge of Satan where the preaching of God his word is despised and the word it selfe made subiect to mens determinations and authorities 6 Columna veritatis SAinct Paule by this title doth admonish Pastors and Preachers how great a burthen and charge they susteyne that the truth of the Gospell can not be continued in the world but by their ministerie in the church of God which is the piller and stay of truth this their duety true preachers considering are diligent in their calling to set forth the Gospell and to preach the truth But the popish church which is not the vpholder and mainteyner but the ouerthrower oppressor of the truth compelling it to giue place to falshood and error can by no equitie chalenge this name to be called the piller and stay of truth but rather of falshood and lyes 7 Ciuitas Dei. OVr Church is the citie of God builded vpon the foundations of the Patriarkes Prophets and Apostles Iesus Christ being the head corner stone ruled by the lawes of God onely reteyning that forme of regiment and common wealth that Christ him selfe hath prescribed The Church of Antichrist is founded vppon seuen hilles Apoc. 17. vpon the traditions dreames phantasies and deuises of men refuseth to be ruled onely by the lawes of God hath cleane altered and changed the forme of regiment prescribed by God set vp an other full of Antichristian pride crueltie and tyrannie Therefore in no wise may be called the citie of God But Babylon the mother of fornication Sodoma and Egypt where our Lord is daily crucified in his members 8 Ciuitas supra montem posita THis saying of our Sauiour Christ in the 5. of Mathew is not properly meant of the Church but of the Apostles their successors the ministers of the Church euen as these sayinges You are the salte of the earth you are the light of the worlde A citie builded vppon an hill can not be hidden neither is a candle lighted to be set vnder a bushell By which wordes he teacheth them aboue all other men to looke diligently to their life and conuersation for as they excell in place and dignitie so the eyes of all men are set vppon them As a citie builded vppon an hill must needes be seene of all them that come neare it so they being placed in so high an office and dignitie shall be noted and marked aboue all other men As a candle is not lighted but to be set on a candlesticke to giue light vnto all them that come into the house euen so a Minister and Preacher of God his word is not ordeyned for any other ende but that he should shine before men in true doctrine and good maners Hereby it appeareth how fondly some Papists would seeme to proue out of this place that the Church must alwayes be visible when the wordes are not applyed to the Church but to the ministers thereof I know some of the doctors expound this place otherwise but the context of the wordes doth plainely confute their error 9 Hortus conclusus AS a gardē or orchard walled in or inclosed with hedges is more estemed of the owner thē great broad fieldes and the trees and flowers that growe therein are preserued and kept more safely then such as are wilde and grow abroad right so the Church of Christ seuered from the rest of the world though it be small in compasse yet is it more estemed of him then all the world beside But the Church of Rome which will not be enclosed with the walls or hedges of God his word but wandreth at large after her owne inuentions can not be called the inclosed garden of Christ. 10 Fons signatus THe true Church of Christ is also compared to a spring or founteine which is shutte in or sealed vppe from the prophane waters of worldly vanities ministring the water of life to all the children of god But as for the popish church which ishueth out of the bottomles lake is a stincking puddle of all false doctrine and heresie whereof the whore beareth a cupp full Apoc. 17. out of which all nations haue dronk Apoc. 18. So farre is it that she should be a well sealed vp by Christ. 11 Sponsa Agni THe description of the Spouse of the Lambe set forth in S. Iohns Reuelation doth in all pointes most aptly agree vnto our holy Church and congregation But the popish church which is not content to be clothed in that white shining silke which is the Iustificatiō of Saincts made white in the blood of the Lambe but with the filthy ragges of mans righteousnes Esay 64. is no Spouse of Christ but the darling of the deuill 12 Mulier amicta Sole NO place in all the scripture doth more plainely set forth the estate of our Church than this 12. of the Apocalyps She is clothed with the sunne of righteousnesse Iesus Christ which is her bewtie She treadeth vnder her feete the Moone of mutabilitie changeablenesse and inconstancie she is crowned with 12. starres which is the doctrine of the 12. Apostles the worde of god She is alwaies fruitefull and persecuted by the deuill and his members but yet by Christ defended protected and prouided for in all daungers and aduersities But the church of Rome is that whore of Babylon clothed in purple and scarlet golde precious stones and perles described Apoc. 17. sitting vpon the beast with seuen heades which are the seuen hilles and is the great cytie that had dominion ouer the kinges of the earth 13 Habitatio fratrum in vnum ALthough this saying be not proper nor peculiar vnto the Church onely but common to euery societie and fellowship of men that continue in godly vnity yet doth it most aptly agree vnto our Church which holdeth one vnity of doctrine faith and religion of christ But the Popish church how so euer it bragge of vnity because their agreement is not in verity can not be that cohabitation of brethren which the Psalmist doth so highely commende 14 Mons Dei mons pinguis THe hill which Dauid so extolleth Psal. 68. is the mount Zyon which though it be small yet it excelleth the high and frutefull hill of Basan because God had chosen it to place his tabernacle therupon euen so the church of Christ though it surmount not ouer kingdomes in worldly dignities and commodities yet to such as Dauid was the litle hill of Zyon is more worth than all the seuen hilles of Rome 15 Sacra anchora IN all the Scripture the Church is not compared to an holy Anchore but in the sixt to the Hebrues Fayth in God his promises is compared vnto a sure stedfast Anchore of our soules vpon which Faith seeing our Church is builded we may truely say that in our
person A childe then of this houshold continuing in fauour though he can not euerlastingly perish with the impenitent sinners yet he must being not by some especial prerogatiue pardoned beare the rodde of his fathers discipline And gladly say with the prophet In flagella paratus sum I am ready for the roddes And whatsoeuer these wantons that are runne out of this house for their owne ease or other mennes flattery shal forge let vs continue in perpetuall cogitation of our sinnes forgeuen and by all meanes possible recompence our negligences past Let vs not think but God hath somewhat to say to vs euen for our offences pardoned being thus warned by â—is owne mouth Sed habeo aduersum te pauca quòd charitatem tuam primam reliquisti Memor esto itaque vnde excideris age poeniteÌ„tiam prima opera fac But somewhat I haue against thee because thou art fallen from thy first loue Remembre therefore from whence thou fell do penaunce and beginne thy former workes againe And the consideration of this diuersitie betwixt remission had by baptisme and after relapse by the sacrament of penaunce moued Damascen to call this second remedie Baptismum vere laboriosum quod per poenitentiam lachrymas perficitur A kinde of Baptisme full of trauell by penaunce and teares to be wroght In which God so pardoneth sinnes that both the offence it selfe and the euerlasting paine due for the same being wholy by Christes death merites wyped away there may yet remaine the debt of temporal punishmeÌ„t on our parte to be discharged as well for some satisfactioÌ„ of Gods iustice against the eternal ordre wherof we vnworthely offended as for to aunswere the Church of her right as S. Austine saith in which only al sinnes be forgeueÌ„ Mary when occasion of satisfying for our offensies in this life is neglected or lacke of time by reason of longe continuance and late repentaunce suffereth not due recompense in our life which is the time of mercie then certes the hand of God shall be much more heuie and the punishment more greuous And this is with out doubt to be looked for that the debt due for sinne must either here by paine or pardon be discharged or els to our greater grief after our departure required CAP. I. 1 ALthough the argument of this chapter be but one yet I thought it good to diuide the answere into two partes The former part containeth his proposition the latter his confirmation And first concerning the sufficiency of Christes redemption there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthines thereof passeth and excedeth it I will therefore agree with you in that you say of the comfort sufficiency and aboundant pâ—â—ce of the death of Christ and I would you would alwayes agre with your selfe in the constant confession of the same truth I receaue also that which you affirme that the benefit of his death extendeth also to the members of his mystical body But in that which you make to be the onely meane whereby the same is conueyed and applyed vnto vs I can not but dissent from your iudgement For the meane on Gods behalfe by which we are made partakers of the fruites of Christes passion and so grafted into his body is his holy spirite of promise which is the earnest and assuraunce of our inheritaunce who worketh in vs fayth as the onely meane by which the righteousnes of Christ is applyed vnto vs Eph. 1. And as for the Sacraments which you seeme to make the onely condittes of Gods mercy we are taught in the holy Scriptures that they are the seales of Gods promises geuen for the confirmation of our fayth as was circumcision to Abraham when he was iustified before through faith Rom. 4. You will vs in the margent to marke the grounde of your cause which is in deede a good admonition For seeing the grounde of your cause leaneth vpon your onely affirmation and is contrary to thautority of Gods word iniurious to the spirite of God and neglecting the fayth of Christ what so euer you buyld thereuppon must needes be like the foundation But howe shoulde your free will be maintayned if Gods spirite had any place that distributeth to euery one according to the good pleasure of his owne will. 1. Cor. 12. And how should the Sacrament geue grace of the worke wrought if fayth were requisite in them that receiue them Of like authority it is which you say that like effect is not geuen to all the Sacramentes Surely all the Sacramentes of Christes institution haue lyke effect in Gods elect But let vs heare your difference By baptisme all sinne committed before and the punishment thereof is clearely forgeuen by the Sacrament of penaunce though the sinne be forgiuen yet there remayneth a temporal punishment When the Pope geueth a general pardon à poena culpa doth he not it by the sacrament of penaunce if he do it by that sacrament then are temporall paines also remitted therby Thus one falshod ouerthroweth an other But Christ you say the author of this sacrament meant not to communicate such efficacie â—o this as to Baptisme Here are two assertions first of the author then of the force of this Sacrament but neither of both able to be proued by the word of god Neuerthelesse here is brought in that which is thought to be the piller not onely of purgatory but also of all other popish satisfactions namely the chastisement and correction that God ministreth to his children whose sinnes he hath pardoned which is not a satisfaction for the sinnes past but a warning for the time to come and is neuer accompted in scripture for an answering of Gods iustice but a token of his mercy being not the punishment of a iudge but the chastisement of the father to the amendement of his childe that suffereth and for an admonition of other that they likewise offend not Heb 12. And after this manner are also those places to be vnderstood where God is sayd to punish the offences of his children But whereas M. Allen allegeth the saying of Christ vnto the Angell of the Church of Ephesus Apoc. 2. But I haue somewhat against thee c. to proue that God hath somewhat to say for our offences pardoned I maruell whether he were sleeping or waking when he wrote it for there the pastor and Church is charged for their offence which is not to be pardoned except they repent if they repent to be clearly remitted But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or age poenitentiam with M. Allen is doe penaunce doing of penaunce with him soundeth to make satisfaction He professeth in one place his ignoraunce in the Greeke tongue but if he would but acknowledge what poenitere in Latine signifieth to be sory he neede not to haue occupied him selfe in alleging that place But proceding a litle further he maketh two causes why the debt of temporall punishment remaineth to be
present it selfe before the seate of Gods glory nor stand in his sight that hath any blemish of sinne any spotte of corruption any remnaunt of infirmity There may no creature matche with those perfect pure natures of spirituall substance in the happy seruice of the holy Trinity that is not holy as they be pure as they be and wholy sanctified as they be Nothing can ioyne with them in freedome of that heauenly city in the ioyfull estate of that triumphant common welth that is not purified to the point and by the worke of Gods owne hande fully fined and perfected This is the new City of Hierusalem which the holy Apostle sawe by vision Nec in eam intrabit aliquid coinquinatum Nothing shall entre therein that is defiled It is the Church without spotte and wrinkle it is the temple of God it is the seate of the Lambe and the lande of the lyuing Nowe our kinde notwithstanding our pitifull fall and singular frailetie with exceding corruption and vnaptenesse both of body and soule hath yet by Christ Iesus our Redeemer the assurance of this vnestimable benefit and the fellowship of perpetual fruition with the Angels To whome as we must be made equall in roume and glory so we must in perfect cleannes be fully matched with them For it were not agreable to Gods ordinary iustice who in this earthly sanctuary expressely forbiddeth the oblations of the vncleane that he shoulde in the celestiall soueraigne holy acknowledge any nature that were not pure and vndefiled or make mans condicion not abettered equall to the dignity of Angels that neuer were reproued whereby vniustice might appeare in God or confusion in the heauens common wealth where onely all ordre is obserued And though mans recouery after his fall be wroght by Christ. and the perfect purgation of sinnes by the bloude of him that only was with out sinne yet it was not conuenient that the might of that mercy shoulde worke in this freedome of our willes with out all peine of the party or trauell of the offenders VVhereof mān streight vpon his miserable downe fall as S. Ambrose excellently well noteth had warning by the fiery sworde holden at the entraunce of paradise therby putting him in remembraunce that the returne to blesse so sone lost shoulde be through fiere and sword hardely achieued againe Therfore if any man thinke the onely forgiuenesse of our sinnes past sufficient either for the recouery of our first degree or the atteining of further dignity in the glory of the Sainctes he seeth not at all what a deepe stroke sinne hath set in mans soule what filth and feeblenesse it hath wroght in the body what rule and dominion it beareth in this our mortality what care all perfect men haue had not only in the healing of the deepe wounde but also in purging the reliques and fall abbating the abundant matter thereof And yet when mā hath with all his might wrastled with the poure of sinne being in this estate he can not be able to recouer the worthinesse of his creation much lesse the passing honour and ende of his redemption Let him washe and water his coutch with teares let him weaken his body with fasting and humble his hearte with sorow Happely the fiery sworde shall not hinder his passage after his departure yet till the separation of the body and the soule full freedome from sinne or perfect purgation thereof excepting the priuilege of certaine can not be fully obteined VVherein yet mercy at the ende hath the chiefe stroke by which the soule that was the principall vessell of sinne and no lesse abased then the body shall out of hande in the perfectest sort obteine the purity of Angels and fellowship with them for euer CAP. VI. 1 ONce againe I pray you note this orderly proceding looke when he maketh such a liberall promisse as in the chapter going before the performance shal not follow by and by after but by interlacing of other matter it shall be first out of minde and then he may better keepe his credit when he goeth about to performe it Yere while he would in all the hast make direct proofe by holy Scripture of the doctrine of purgatory but now as though purgatory were already proued he will shewe for what vse it serueth namely to clense and qualifie the soule of man that it may be meete to enter into the holy places And for this purpose he sheweth at large which might haue bene vttered in briefe that the corruption of mans sinnefull nature is so great and the perfection of dignitie whereunto we are called so high as man except he be throughly purged is no meete person to be partaker therof But lest he should be thought here to forget the perfect restitution by Christ he confesseth the perfect purgation of our sinnes to be wrought by his blood yet he sayth it is not meete that the might of that mercy should worke in this freedom of our will without all paine or trauell of the offenders This is to geue with one hand and to pull away with the other hand But that this enemy of the crosse of Christ shall not thus passe away with his reseruations and exceptions that which he graunteth we will take at the hand of God and not of this vnpure blasphemer who by his holy spirite teacheth vs that the blood of Christ doth purge vs from all our sinnes being washed by him we are throughly cleane Iohn 13. So that although our sinnes were as redd as scarlet they are made as white as snowe Esay 1. Then being throughly purged washed clensed as white as snow we are made capable of the heauenly inheritaunce and the fruition of eternall glory And if any man had rather beleue an Angell before M. Allen an elder of the heauenly consistory sooner then a yong palting proctor of purgatory Let him heare what is sayd to S. Iohn in his reuelation 7. cap. whereby is declared by what priuilege al the faithfull departed appeare in innocency before the throne of god These are they sayth the Angel that came out of that great affliction and haue washed their stoles and made them white in the bloud of the lambe therefore they are in the presence of the throne of God and serue him day and night c. Mark here that they which came out of this great affliction were not purged thereby after M. Allens fantasy but that they washed and made white their garments in the bloud of the lambe by whose righteousnes they being clothed may appeare in innocēcy before the throne of god As for that which is cited out of Ambrose of the fiery sword is ment of the sorrow of repentaunce and with no equity can be racked to the paynes of purgatory 2 I maruell not now to see the Prophet seeke not only for the remission of his greuous sinnes but to be better cleansed to haue them wholy blotted out to be made as
altogither to discent though he doe not plainly allow it And that he writeth vpon the first of Ezechiel to which place M. Allen sendeth vs he speaketh of the prouidence of God which so gouerneth the afflictions of his Sainctes that that which seemed to be a punishment is conuerted into a medicine As children imagine that spirites and goblines be in euery darke corner So M. Allen neuer readeth fire and torment but by and by he dreameth of purgatory Origen is alleged for our cause vpon vvhose errour in a matter somevvhat appertayning to our purpose S Augustins iudgement is more largely sought and therevvith it is declared by testimony of diuers holy authors vvhat sinnes be chiefly purged in that temporall fire CAP. VIII 1 THese three noble learned men might right well satisfie our search for the sense of the textes both of the Prophet and Apostle and perswade any reasonable man in the whole cause yet for that there be â—ome that meane not to relent in their lewde opinions for light proffers I will store them with testimonies Origenes one of great antiquity in many places of his works vnderstandeth both the sayd textes of Malachie and S. Paule in the like sorte by whom we may well take a great taste of the time and Church where he liued what men of wisedom vertue then iudged of thinges which now of fooles be contemned and of heretikes condemned also But namely vpon the Prophet Ieremy in these wordes Si post fundamentum Iesu Christi non solum in tuo corde aurum argentum lapidem preciosum superae dificaueris verum ligna foenum stipulam quid tibi vis fieri cum anima seiuncta fuerit a corpore vtrum ne ingredi vis in sancta cum lignis tuis foeno stipula vt polluas regnum Dei an propter lignum foenum stipulam foris residere vis pro auro argento lapide precioso nil mercedis accipere sed neque hoc aequum est Quid ergo sequitur nisi vt primum propter lignum ignis tibi detur qui consumat foenum lignum stipulam c. If vpon the foundation which is Christ Iesus thou do not onely builde golde siluer and preciouse stone but also woodde hay and strawe what doest thou looke for after thy death wilt thou entre into the holy places with thy woodde hay and stooble and defile the kingdome of God or els for thy wood hay and straw thou wilt abide forthe and so liese the rewarde of thy golde siluer and preciouse stone But that were no reason then there is no waye but one first to receiue fire for to consume and burne out thy woodde hay and stooble and then afterwarde to receiue for thy better workes the rewarde of saluation so sayth Origen VVhose iudgement if any man mistrust in this point because he erred in other let him learne to miscredit only his or other mens singular opinioÌ„s priuate phaÌ„tasies wherein they disagreed from the residue of the common body of Christ his Church not contemne in any man the confirmation of the vniuersall sense which he findeth in the vniforme doctrine of all other Christian Catholikes In deede it was so euident that this Purgatory fire of which the Apostle speaketh shoulde be in the other life that this learned man afterwarde leauing the meaning which the holy Church had opened for the proofe of certeine transitory punishment in the next worlde for meaner offenders would of his owne head go forwarde which is the bane of many a goodly wit and mainteine that all greuous crimes and most wicked maners might be purged by this fire after death and the parties in time saued so that they had faith for their foundation whereby as S. Augustine noteth of him he made onely faith to saue the wicked without repentaunce or good workes CAP. VIII 1 WHether M. Allen knew that his former witnesses did not agree or that he would geue a tast of his bountifull dealing in pressing vs with more testimonies then needed he will nowe produce Origen whom though he confesse to be infamouse for heresy yet eueÌ„ of his error he wil not doubt but to grounde his purgatory Origen will haue men passe through a fire but to make it plaine that he meaneth not the fier of Popish purgatory we shal perceiue by other places of his writings that he speaketh of such a fire as all men be they neuer so iust shall passe through affirming that all meÌ„ haue neede of purifications after his life ye Peter Paule and such like in Num. Hom. 25. in Psal. 36. Hom. 3. But all men passe not through the Popes purgatory I passe ouer here the grosse allegory that he maketh of the bloude of Deuils by which a man shal be washed and purified in the kingdome of God that being so purified and made cleane he may enter into the city of god Num. Hom. 25. But how soeuer he doteth about passage through fier and purifications after this life yet he affirmeth in an other place that the day of Christian mens death is the deposition of paine whereby it appereth that either he was not constant with him selfe or els that Origens purgatory was a painlesse purgatory His wordes are in Iob Lib. 3. Nam priores diem natiuitatis celebrabant vnam vitam diligentes aliam post hanc non sperantes Nunc vero nos non natiuitatis diem celebramus cum sit dolorum atque tentationum introitus sed mortis diem celebramus vtpote omnium dolorum depositionem atque omnium tentationum effugationem The former men did celebrate the daye of natiuity as they that loued but one life and hoped for none after this But now we doe not celebrate the daye of Natiuitie seeing it is the entrance of sorrowes and temptations but we celebrate the daye of death as that which is a deposition of all griefes and an auoyding of all temptations 2 Against which perniciouse error the said doctor often writeth and proueth that this place of S. Paule can not make for the deliuery of the wicked or greuous offenders in any case And being somewhat vrged by the aduersaries arguments or els because he woulde take all holde from them which they seemed to haue by that scripture he seeketh them out an other meaning not contrary at all to the trueth of Purgatory but yet farther of their purpose Declaring that this fire might as he saith there signify some griefe of this worlde for the abating of some inordinate affectioÌ„s that be found in many euen towards things otherwise lawfull Though he was very loth to auouch this as the vndouted meaning of that scripture being pleaced with any other whereby they shoulde not be forced to deny the eternall damnation of impenitent sinners as in deede he neuer gaue this meaning but where the Origenistes did vrge him and in such places onely where he aunswereth to Origens arguments for
breaketh her faith of Baptisme shal be damned for mariage is not worth a rush For S. Paule sayth not she shal be damned for mariage but because she hath reiected the first faith that is such wanton young houswifes procede so farre that at length they forsake widowhood christianity and all But if M. Allen were posed where he findeth this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Scripture vsed for a vowe or promise made to God perhaps he would aunswere he is no Graecian then let him pose D. Hardinge or some other with the same question and with all let them shew how the first faith can be expounded for the last vowe that a body hath made if he haue made more then one For the Papists holde that these women made one vowe in baptisme an other of there widowhood What so euer M. Iewell hath affirmed against the Papistes he hath so substantially and learnedly defended that he neede not to haue any other man to aunswere for him Therefore if it were not to choke M. Allen in his owne coller I woulde trauaile no farther in this question The Church you say can not erre and that company is the Church which hath the Pope for their head if therefore it can be proued that the Pope and all they that take his part haue erred it is sufficiently shewed that the Church may erre S. Augustine was in this error as you will not deny that the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ was to be ministred vnto infants but of the same opinion he affirmeth that Innocentius Bishop of Rome and all the Church in his tyme was therefore the Pope and all the Church did erre reade Augustine contra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. where he sayth of Innocentius Qui denique paruulos definiuit nisi manducauerint carnem filij hominis vitam prorsus habere non posse which hath defined that infantes except they eate the flesh of the sonne of man can haue no life at all in them And by eating the flesh of the sonne of mā he meaneth eating the Sacramēt of his flesh and bloud as it is euident to them that wil bestow the reading of Augustines discourse in that place An aunsvvere to certayne obiections of the aduersaries moued vpon the diuersitie of meanings vvhich they see geuen in the fathers vvritings of the Scriptures before alleaged for purgatory and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiencie of Christes passion CAP. XI 1 BVt nowe the other side seeketh for some shiftes and draweth backe in this extremity thus That the places of the olde and new Testament now rather alleaged for my purpose and the proofe of purgatory though they be thus expounded of the doctours yet they may haue some other meaninge and sometimes be construed otherwise by the fathers them selues To which I aunswere and freely confesse that they so may haue in deede but the aduersary must take this with all that the pillars of Christes Church woulde neuer haue geuen this sense amongest other or rather before all other meaninges that probability or conferēce of scriptures did driue them vnto had it conteined a plaine faulsehood as the heretike supposeth it doth Yea had not the doctrine of Purgatory bene a knowne trueth in all ages it should neuer by the graue iudgemēt of so many wise men haue atteyned any colour of scripture For though many meaninges be founde of most harde places in all the Bible yet there is no sense geuen by any approued doctour that in it selfe is false And thinke you diuerse textes of the holy Scripture coulde haue caryed a false perswasion of Purgatory downe from the Apostles dayes to our time for true doctrine Marke well and you shall perceiue that the Church of Christ hath euer geuen roome to the diuersitie of mens wittes the diuision of graces and sondry giftes in exposition of most places of the whole testament with this prouiso alwayes that no man of singularity should father any falsehood or vntrueth vpon any texte but otherwise that euery man might abounde in his meaning Mary falsehood she neuer suffered one moment to take holde or bearing of any scripture vnreprehended Ecclesia multa tolerat sayth S. Augustine tamen quae sunt contra fidem vel bonam vitam non probat nectacet nec facit the Church beareth many thinges yet such thinges as be hourtfull to faith or good life she neuer approueth nor doth them her selfe nor holdeth her peace when she seeth them done by others Thereof we haue a goodly example in our owne matter So long as any conuenient meaning might be found out by the holy writers of that place alleaged out of S. Paule for such as shoulde be saued through fire she liked and allowed the same Some proued that the elect must be saued by long sufferance some said the tribulation of this life and world must trie mens faith workes some saide the greefe of minde in loosing that which they ouer much loued was the burning fire of mans affections some woulde haue the greuous vexation of departure out of this life to be a purgatory paines some construed the texte of the fire of conflagration that shall purge the workes of many in the latter day finally they all agreed that the temporall torment of the worlde to come is litterally noted and especially meant by the fire which the Apostle speaketh of All these so litle do disagree amongest them selues that not onely by diuerse men but of one man they might well all be geuen And being all in them selfe very true the holy Church so liketh and alloweth them eche one that yet by the common iudgement of all learned men that meaning for Purgatory paines she approueth as the most agreeable sense to the texte and whole circumstance of the letter But as soone as Origen went about to proue by the same scripture that all wicked men shoulde at length be saued after due purgation by fire then this pillar of trueth seeing an open falsehood gathered by the scripture of Gods worde coulde susteine no longer She set vp against this errour her pastors the graue fathers of our faith who ceased not as occasion serued to geue men warning of the deceite intended not onely still mainteining the doctrine of Purgatory but also expressely condemning all the reprehenders thereof as hereafter it shall be better declared and so misliking no sense that in it selfe was true the meaning of Purgatory yet hath bene of all the learned counted so certaine that in geuing any other likely exposition that was euer added with all as most consonant to the will and wordes of the writers So doth Theodoretus so doth S. Augustine and so in a maner did they all And as the saide holy doctour saith with whose wordes I am much delited by cause he of all other maketh trueth stand most plainely vpon it selfe One texte of scripture may well haue so many vnderstandings as may
precious stones and so escape both the fires th one of eternall punishment for the wicked and the other which shall correct them that must be saued through fire But now because we reade that he surely shall be saued therefore that fire is not much regarded And yet let them be boulde of this that though they be saued by fire it shall yet be more fearse and greeuous then any thing that man may susteine in this life though both Martyrs and malefactours haue suffered straunge torments Againe in an other place the same holy doctour vttereth the like saying VVhich I will repeate also that the world may behold the vniust dealing of the contrary part that in the booke of their excuse why they departed out of the Church they call it their Apologie be not ashamed to auouch that S. Augustine sometimes denyed and sometimes douted of Purgatory Thus he writeth then against such deceiuers and for the defence of him selfe and the Churches faith Sed si etiam sic conuersus euadat vitam viuat non moriatur non tamē promittimus quod euadet omnem poenam Nam prius purgandus est igne purgationis qui in aliud saeculum distulit fructum conuersionis Hic autem ignis etsi aeternus non sit miro tamen modo est grauis excellit enim omnem poenam quam vnquam passus est aliquis in hac vita Nunquam enim in carne inuenta est tanta poena licet mirabilia passi sunt Martyres multi nequiter iniqui tanta sustinuerunt supplicia Studeat ergo quilibet sic delicta corrigere vt post mortem non oporteat talem poenam tolerare If a sinner sayth he by his conuersion escape death and obtayne life yet for all that I can not promise him that he shall escape all paine or punishment For he that differred the fruites of repentaunce till the next life must be perfited in purgatory fire And this fire I tell you though it be not euerlasting yet it is passing greeuous for it doth fare exceede all payne that man may suffer in this life Neuer griefe in this flesh could be so great as it though Martyrs haue abiden straunge torments and the worst sort of wicked men exceeding great punishments Therefore let euery man so correct his owne faults that after his death he may escape that pitifull payne So farre S. Augustine By whom we see not onely the truth of our Catholike doctrine liuely and vehemently set forth but to the great feare of vs all the weight of Gods sentence and the payne of that vntolerable punishment a◠the Church of his time taught and beleued to passe all mortall transitory woe in the world 3 Concerning Augustine we haue answered before that as that errour of purgatory was somewhat risely budded vp in his time so he seemeth not alwaies to be cleare of it although in some places he is not so certaine of it but that he affirmeth it may be enquired of and peraduenture shall be found to be so peraduenture it shall still remayne hidde or vnknowen 4 VVhereof it hath pleased almighty God sometimes to geue man a tast by calling some one or other aboue the common rase of nature out of this mortall life and speedy restoring him from the state of the departed to the company of the liuing againe VVhich worke though it be straunge in nature thought vnlikely to misbeleuers and contemned of such as would extinguish the spirite of God yet it hath bene the vsuall practise since the beginning of our faith and religion of the holy Ghost so to trade mans frailey in faith feare of Gods Iudgements Sometymes the liuing 〈◊〉 in traunce or sudden chaunge by Gods omnipotency taken vp to the vewe as it were of the vnspeakeable treasures of the prepared ioyes or extreame calamities of the world to come So was the Apostle S. Paule he could not tell howe him selfe called to the beholding of Gods maiesty and mysteries vnspeakeable So was S. Iohn in spirite caused often to behold and presently in a maner to see not onely the affayres of Gods Church till the worldes ende but also the happy Seate of the Lambe the eternall ioy of the elect and the euerlasting lake of the damned with the infinite sorowe of all the forsaken sorte And so haue many one sith that time in the same spirite had a present taste of all those iudgements which by any meanes through the vnsercheable ordinaunce of God be prepared for sinners Sometimes also by the same force of the Spirite the departed haue appeared amongest the liue as Samuel the prophet to king Saul vttering thinges to come Or if that were not Samuel him selfe because that practise of vnlawefull artes may be thought not conuenient for the procuring of the Prophets owne persons apparition yet Moyses was in deede personnaly present with Christ in the Mounte at his transfiguration And as he at Christes cal came from the dead out of the bousom of Abraham so did Elias at the same time come from Paradise as S. Augustine affirmeth and were both conuersaunt and in talke with Christ in the sight of the Apostles at once from whense they departed at Christes appointement to their seuerall abode and rest againe VVhereupon the same holy doctour confesseth that these rare meruelous workes of God though they follow not the common order of nature yet they be neither impossible nor vnpractised in Christes Church Alij sunt sayth he limites humanarum rerum alia diuinarum signa virtutum alia sunt quae naturaliter alia quae mirabiliter fiunt The common course and limites of mans matters be of one sorte and the wonderous signes of Gods power and vertue of an other the workes that naturally be wrought are nothing like such thinges as meruailously and miraculously be done And as Christ in his owne person made many extraordinary workes to beare testimony of his diuinity so he woulde that the glory of God and faith in him should take deepe roote and large encrease through out all nations not onely by preaching and worde but by workes also which the same holy Ghost for the saluation of the beloued flocke disposeth by the eternall wisedome where when with whome and as he listeth Mary as these be the most secret wayes and vnknowen steppes of Gods spirite and therefore most humbly to be reuerenced of the faithfull so because they are so farre from the rase of naturall affaires and much ouerreach flesh and bloude they are often of fooles contemned and of the vnwise wisdome of worldlinges as extreme madnesse improued The expresse signes of Gods spirite wrought by the Sauiour of the worlde in his owne person were with singular blasphemy of the prowde Iewes referred to Beelzebub The tokens and wonders wrought by his Apostles were attributed to vnlawfull artes and misconstrued of most miscreants to false intentes It was euer a speciall note of
but they had it out of Gods holy worde and tradition of the holy Apostles and by the very suggestion of the spirite of trueth All which if it can not moue the misbeleuer and stay the rashenesse of the simple deceiued sort it shall be but lost labour to bring in any more for the confirmation of that trueth which all the holy doctours haue so fully both proued and declared to my hande 5 The tales that you tell out of Gregory and Bede may be hearde as they are tolde and beleeued as they deserue but that you make the opinion of purgatory such an article of faith that no article with more force of the spirite nor with more graue authority was set forth sence the beginning of Christian religion and yet neuer taught in the scripture that is by no meanes to be borne with all If Sathan hath labored to plante that error which is most blasphemous against Christ and occasion of most licentious wickednesse in all them that professe Christ and beleue it if Sathan I saye hath bent all his force to plante such an error by which his kingdome is so much aduaunsed no wise man can maruell Of like leuen it is that you affirme That neuer nation was conuerted to the fayth but it had purgatory taught by worde and confirmed by miracle O impudent affirmer Of so many nations as S. Luke recordeth in the Actes of the Apostles to haue bene conuerted to the fayth name one vnto which you can proue that purgatory was taught eyther by worde or miracle But to be sure you name all euen of the primitiue Church when that aboundant floude of faith was spred ouer all countries But when the proofe commeth you leape but 600. yeares from Christ to Gregories dialogues from which time I will not deny but you may haue great store of such stuffe as you haue miracles now in Flaunders of the honest woman of the olde Baylye in London and such like 6 But nowe for vs that through Gods greate mercy be Catholikes let vs for Christes sake so vse the benefit of this our approued faith to the amendement of our owne liues that where no argument will serue nor authority of Scripture or doctour can conuerte the deceiued yet the fructe of this doctrine shewed by good life and vertuous conuersatioÌ„ may by Christes mercy moue them Let the priest consider that this heuy iudgement must beginne at the house of God as S. Peter affirmeth and so doth S. Ambrose proue it must do In whome for the dignity of his honorable ministery as much more holynesse is requisite so a more straite reckening must be required Let the Lay man learne for the auoyding of greater daunger in the presence of the highe Iudge willingly to submit him selfe to Gods holy ministers VVho haue in most ample maner a commission of executing Christes office in earth both for pardoning and punishment of sinne that suffering here in his Church sentence and iuste iudgement for his offensies he may the rather escape our fathers greuous chastisement in the life to come Therefore I woulde exhorte earnestly the minister of God that in geuing penaunce he would measure the medecine by the maladie aptly discerning the limitation of the punishment by the quantity of the faulte not vsing like lenity in closing vp of euery wounde For they shall not be blamelesse surely that do the worke of Gods iudgement committed to their discretion negligently nor the simple soule that lookes to be set free from further paine can by the acceptation of such vnâ—quall remedies auoide the scourge of iudgement prepared except he him selfe voluntaryly receiue as I woulde wishe all men shoulde some further satisfaction by the fructes of penaunce that of his owne accorde he may helpe the enioyned penalty and so by Gods grace turne away the great greefe to come Excellently well and to our purpose saide S. Cyprian in the fourth booke of his epistles talking of such offenders as were not charged with penaunce sufficiently or otherwise negligently fulfilled the same by these wordes We shall not herein any thing be preiudiciall to Gods iudgement that is to come that he may not allow and ratifie our sentence if he finde the perfect penaunce of the party so require But if the offender haue deluded vs by fayned accomplishing of his penaunce then God who will not be deluded because he beholdeth the hearte of man shall geue iudgement of such thinges as were hidde from vs And so our Lorde will amende the sentence of his seruauntes VVhere this doctour seemeth to allude to the accustomed name of Purgatory which S. Augustine and other do often call the amending fire Though it may well be that he here calleth the contrary sentence of iudgement to eternall damnation vpon the impenitent sinner whome the priest because he coulde not discerne the fayned hypocrasy of his externall dealing from the inward sorow of hearte pronounced to be absolued of his sinnes it may stande I say that he termeth that contrary sentence of God the correction or the amendement of the priestes iudgement How so euer that be it is a worke of singular grace and discretion so to deale with the spirituall patient that he haue no nede of the amending fire 6 Here is an exhortation vnto Papistes first to the priestes that they will shew the fructe of this doctrine in their conuersation For my parte â— am perswaded if feare of eternall torments in Hell that God threatneth by his scriptures will not terrify them the fayned paines of purgatory which they can by their owne Masses and other like merits auoide will not restraine them The laye men are exhorted to submitte them selues to the priestes who haue such an ample commission that they may both pardon and punish sinne euen as Christ him selfe did vpon earth But what auayleth this submission when the ignorant or negligent priest that weigheth not the penaunce in euen ballance with the offence doth not by his absolution or pardonning take awaye one houres torments of purgatory as both M. Allen him selfe in effect confesseth and the Maister of the sentence also teacheth vnto whome M. Allen hath bene so good a scholler that he hath borowed of him not onely his iudgement but in diuerse places his very wordes also he hath translated Of the nature and condicion of Purgatory fire the difference of their state that be in it from the damned in Hell vvith the conclusion of this booke CAP. XIII 1 IF any curious heade list of me demaunde where or in what parte of the worlde this place of punishment is or what nature that fire is of that worketh by such vehement force vppon a spirituall substance I will not by longe declaration thereof feede his curiosity because he may haue both the example and the like doubt of Hell it selfe and many other workes of God moe The learned may see that question at large debated in the bookes of the City of God and in
against his wicked doctrine euen as he shoulde be and as these wranglers in the like case must be The place well marked shal serue our turne when so euer we heare them so impudently reiect scriptures because they impugne their heresies which els shoulde be as good scriptures as any booke of the Bible if they either woulde make with them or by any crafty colouring not plainely make against them Thus he sayth Nec ideo liber Sapientiae qui tanta numerositate annorum legi meruit in ecclesia Christi pati debet iniuriam quoniam resistit eis qui pro meritis hominum falluntur rursus omnibus hic liber tractatoribus anteponendus quoniam sibi cum anteposuerunt etiam temporibus Apostolorum proximi egregij tractatores qui eum testem adhibentes nihil se adhibere nisi diuinum testimonium crediderūt in English thus It is no reason that the booke of VVisdom which so many worlde 's together hath bene worthy the reading in the Church of Christ shoulde nowe receiue such wrong at our handes because it plainely resisteth these fellowes that exalt mans merites aboue Gods grace And againe this booke is of more authority then all the expositours in the worlde for the noble writers hard by the Apostles time did much preferre this booke before them selues who alleaging the testimony of that scripture doubted not but they vsed thereby the witnesse of Gods holy word Euen so must we tell our maisters that it were plaine wrong to discredit the history of the Machabees which hath bene in our Bible euer sith Christes time for holy Scripture because it hath an euident testimonie against their false belefe concerning the state of the soules departed which booke is not onely better to be beleued then all Caluins false gloses but of more authority then all holy expositors Out of which booke both S. Augustine others many haue vsed proofe of their matters as of the testimonie of Sacred and holy scripture 2 I will not gaine saye but who so denyeth the authority of the holy Scriptures thereby bewrayeth him selfe to be an heretike as all Papistes doe which I will proue afterwarde But he that admitteth for scripture that which is not proceded from the spirite of God and thereby will auouch for trueth that which is contrary to the vndoubted worde of God is no lesse heretike then he for it is all one sinne to adde to the worde of God and to take from it But M. Allen pretending to proue the booke of Machabees canonicall by authority of the Church when he can not by consent that it hath with the scriptures of God beginneth with the authority of Hieronym in prol Mach. But what he meaneth thereby or what place he noteth I know not But this I knowe that in his Preface vpon the booke of kinges he doth not onely omit it in rehersall of the canonicall bookes but also accompteth it plainely among the Apocryphall Next he alleageth the canons of the Apostles Wise canons I promise you as truely made by the Apostles as the double canons that lie on the tower hyll of London In which are rehersed 3. bookes of Machabees two Epistles of Clemens for canonicall scripture but the Apocalypse of S. Iohn hath no place at all by which it may appeare what Apostles they were that made that canckred canon Then followeth the prouinciall Councell of Carthage the third which nameth the 2. bookes of the Machabees amonge the canonicall scriptures euen as it doth the 5. bookes of Salomon whereas the Church alloweth but 3. namely the Prouerbes the preacher and the Canticles and although you shoulde numbre to these the booke of Wisdome yet can you make but 4. in all that we know of Againe in what sence they did call those bookes canonicall appereth by Augustine that was one of that Councell namely that they maye be reade so it be with iudgement Contra 2. Gaudentij epistolam lib. 2. cap. 23. Et hanc quidem scripturam quae appellatur Machabaeorum non habent Iudaei sicut legem Prophetas Psalmos quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis dicens oportet impleri omnia quae scripta sunt in lege prophetis in psalmis de me Sed recepta est ab ecclesia non inutiliter si sobriè legatur audiatur And this scripture of the Machabees the Iewes compte not as the lawe and the prophetes and the Psalmes to whome our Lorde geueth testimony as to his witnesses saying it behoued that all thinges should be fulfilled that were written of me in the lawe and in the Prophetes and in the Psalmes But it is receiued of the Church not vnprofitably if it be soberly reade and harde Here you see that Augustine howsoeuer he alloweth those bookes yet he alloweth them not in full authority with the lawe Prophetes and Psalmes nor with out condition of sobriety in the reader or hearer But Hieronym sayth plainely the Church receiueth them not as canonicall scriptures in his preface vpon the booke of Prouerbes Sicut ergo Iudith Tobiae Machabaeorum libros legit quidem ecclesia sed eos inter canonicas scripturas non recipit Sic haec duo volumina legat ad aedificationem plaebis non ad authoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam Therefore euen as the Church readeth in deede the bookes of Iudith Tobias and Machabees but yet receiueth them not among the canonicall scriptures so maye she reade these 2. bookes videlicet Ecclesiasticus and the booke of Wisdome falsely intitled to Salomon for the edification of the people but not to confirme the authority of ecclesiasticall opinions Thus if Augustine doe simply allowe these bookes you haue Hieronym that doth simply refuse them If Augustine saye the Church receiueth them for canonicall Hieronym sayth the Church receiueth them not for canonicall As for Damascene except you woulde stryue with numbre of witnesses I know not why you alleage him being one to whose iudgement as but a late writer in comparison you know we ascribe small credit I might produce against him Athanasius or at leste wise one of elder time then Damascene vnder the name of Athanasius but that I haue alleaged already is sufficient to represse that vaine and vnskilfull insultation that you vse in so many wastfull wordes against vs for refusing the authority of him that abridged Iason the Cyrenians bookes for canonicall scriptures 3 But our aduersary learned not this practise of Pelagius onely for it is an older sore and a common sicknesse to all deuisers of deuilish doctrine as the skillfull in the Churchies affaires may acknowledge For some there were that otherwise coulde not vpholde heresy but by the vtter deniall of all the olde Testament as Carpocrates Ceuerus Manicheus But Marcion and Cerdon reiect all together sauyng Lukes Gospel Now Cerinthus and Ebion make counte of none of all the Euangelicall histories but the Gospell of Matthewe Cerinthus againe and Seuerus
which remember your mysteries of iniquity and are witnesses of your detestable doinges And yet you do clame of the decay of vertue in our dayes which whether it haue suffered a greater diminishing then in the time of your blinde and blasphemous gouernment let them that haue knowen both the times consider diligently and iudge indifferently Finally where as you affirme that your aduersaries cōfesse that the dayes of Chrysostome were holy and vndefiled and woulde make young men boyes beleue so you must either bring forth your authors that so confesse or else all men both young and olde must saye you are a shamelesse lyer we confesse that in those dayes the onely foundation Iesus Christ was taught and the article of iustification by the onely mercy of God was preached but yet we affirme that much straw wodde and other impure matter was builded vpon the foundation which was a preparation to the kingdome of Antichrist which was not longe after to be reueiled It may be a shame for you Papistes to leaue and condemne for heresie all that is true in those mens writings and agreable to the scripture and to make such vaunt for a fewe superstitious ceremonies and vnsincere opinions which yet if eyther young or olde wil indifferently compare with your abhominations of desolation they shall easily perceiue that they differe as much from you as we from them Man may be relieued after his departure either by the almes vvhich he gaue in his life time or by that vvhich is prouided by his testament to be geuen after his death or els by that almes vvhich other men do bestovv for his soules sake of their ovvne goods CAP. V. 1 ANd we finde the workes of mercy and charitie to helpe the soule of man in this life towardes remission of his sinnes or els in the next worlde for release of paine due vnto the same sinnes All which may be donne two dayes ▪ first by thine owne hands or appointment liuing in this world which is the best perfectest and surest meanes that may be for that purgeth sinnes procureth mercy maketh frendes in the day of dreade cleanseth beforehand staieth the soule from death and lifteth it vp also to life euerlasting Regarde not here the ianglers that will crie out on thee that mans workes must not presume so farre as to winne heauen or to purge sinnes lest they intermeddle with Christes worke of redemption and the office of onely faith make no accompt of such corrupters of Christian conditions liue well and carefully followe these workes of mercy so expressely commaunded and cōmended in the scriptures kepe thee within the householde of the faithfull and thy very good conuersation in operibus bonis shall refute their vaine blastes and improue their idle faith Say but then vnto them by the words of S. Iames. Maister Protestaunt let me haue a sight of your onely faith with out good workes and here lo beholde mine and spare not by my good workes VVhat religion so euer you be of I know not but I woulde be of that religion which the Apostle calleth religionem mundam immaculatam The pure and vnspotted religion and that is as he affirmeth to viset the fatherlesse and succoure widowes in their neede And then tell them boldely that the Church of God hath instructed thee that all workes whereby man may procure helpe to him selfe or other be the workes of the faithfull which haue receiued that force by the grace and fauour of God and be through Christes bloude so wattered tempered and qualified that they may deserue heauen and remission of sinne Doubt not to tell them that they haue no sight in this darkenesse of heresie in the wayes of Gods wisedome they haue no feele nor tast of the force of his death they see not howe grace prepareth mans workes they can not reach in their infidelitie how wonderfully his death worketh in the Sacraments they can not attayne by any gesse how the deedes of a poore wretch may be so framed in the children of God that whereas of their owne nature they are not able to procure any mercy yet they now shall be counted of Christ him selfe sitting in iudgement worthy of blesse and life euerlasting Bidde them come in come in they shall feele with thee in simplicitie obedience that which they could not out of this society in the pride of contention euer perceiue And if they will not so doe let them perish alone Turning then from them thether where we were let vs practise mercy as I sayd in our owne time in our helth when it shall be much meritorious as proceeding not of necessitie but of freedom and good will. And then after our departure the representation of our charitable deedes by such as receiued benefite thereby shall exceedingly moue God to mercy as we see it did sturre vp the compassion of his Apostle in the fulfilling of so straunge a request VVhereupon S. Cyprian sayth that almes deliuereth often from both the second death which is damnation and the first which is of the body CAP. V. 1 NOw we shall see how many wayes almes proffiteth mens soules First almes giuen by a mans owne handes is allowed for the best but that my thinkes M. Allen shoulde kepe men out of your purgatory and not helpe them when they be there And here you will seeme to be zealous in exhorting men to almes and charge vs with iangling against it because we affirme that mens workes must not presume to winne heauen nor to purge sinnes nor to medle with Christes worke of redemption and the office of onely faith which assertions you call corruptions of Christian cōditions O blasphemous barking of an horrible helhound Doth the glory of Gods mercy and grace the worke of Christes redemption and the office of onely faith hinder almes or corrupt good conditions who seeth not although it be a foolish thing to boast of our works but that we are compelled by this sclaūderous tongue of yours who seeth not more true almes which is giuen for Gods cause in one citie where the Gospell is preached then in a whole cuntrey where popery is receiued Neither doe we refuse the triall of S. Iames with the proudest of the popish hypocrites that make most of their merites And because you would be of that religion that S. Iames calleth holy and vndefiled which is to visite the fatherlesse children and widowes in their affliction If I should speake of singular persons the triall were neither certayne nor possible let vs therefore consider the whole states Shew me M. Allen if thou canst for thy gutts or name me any city in the world where popery preuayleth that hath made such prouision for the fatherlesse children and widowes and all other kind of poore as is in the noble city of London and in diuers other cities and townes of this land and by publike law appoynted to be throughout all the realme of England I knowledge and
although Tobies story be no canonicall scripture yet it is not once mentioned nor by any reasonable or sober man can be imagined there But who can let M. Allen to dreame that Tobies prayer and almes were for the deade whome he buried yet who can beare him when he bosteth that all antiquitie doth offer to take his parte and he may haue whome he will to testifie the same This is a strange matter M. Allen that you maye haue your choyse of so many and will not vouchsafe to bring one that so doth write of Tobies prayer and almes But you will say you meane generally of almes and prayers for the dead and thereof you haue store of auncient testimonies and the more auncient the better I will not deny but you haue much drosse and dragges of the latter sorte of doctors and the later the fuller of drosse But bring me any worde out of Iustinus martyr Irenaeus Clemens Alexandrinus or any that did write with in one 100. yeares after Christ that alloweth prayer or almes for the deade and I will saye you are as good as your worde But if neither you nor any Papist for you be able to doe it out of these which I haue named which are the most auncieÌ„t writers whose workes are extant nor out of an auncient or authenticall writer with in the compasse that I haue named I may iustly say that you will boast of more in a minute of an houre then you are able to performe all the dayes of your life But you will come neare the time if you can not come to it And Origen shall speake for you all that he can or at least wise as much as you will giue him leaue to say But if a man might be as bold to pose you M. Allen as you are to pose your betters where had you this testimony of Origen did you read it in his owne workes or did you borrow it of some other mans collection I know you will be ashamed to confesse the latter but you may be more ashamed to acknowledge the former For who soeuer allegeth this place of Origen to proue prayers and almes to profite the deade is a foule falsery of Origens meaning a beastly gelder of auncient authoritie though it be M. Allen him selfe For this place of Origen as it maketh nothing in the world to proue that prayer and almes profite the deade but the cleane contrary so doth it plainly declare to what ende those prayers almes and oblations that were vsed in the primitiue Church were referred and how in pâ—ocesse of time superstitious and erroneous opinions grew of them Wherefore that this may be euident I will rehearse the whole testimony of Origen which M. Allen hath so mischieuously mangled Nam priores diem natiuitatis celebrabant vnam vitam diligentes aliam post hanc non sperantes Nunc verò nos non natiuitatis diem celebramus cum sit dolorum atque tentationum introitus sed mortis diem celebramus vtpote omnium dolorum depositionem atque omnium tentationum effugationem Diem mortis celebramus quia non moriuntur hi qui mori videntur Propterea memorias sanctorum facimus parentum nostrorum vel amicorum in fide morientium deuotè memorias agimus tam illorum refrigerio gaudentes quam etiam nobis piam consummationem in fide postulantes Sic itaque non diem natiuitatis celebramus quia in perpetuo viuent ij qui moriuntur Celebramus nimirum religiosos cum sacerdotibus conuocantes fideles vnà cum clero inuitantes adhuc egenos pauperes pupillos viduas saturantes vt fiat festiuitas nostra in memoriam requiei defunctis animabus quarum memoriam celebramus nobis autem efficiatur in odorem suauitatis in conspectu aeterni Dei. The former men did celebrate the daye of their natiuitie louing but one life and not hoping for any other after this But now we doe not celebrate the daye of natiuitie seeing it is the entraunce of sorrowes and tentations but we celebrate the day of death as that which is the putting away of all sorrowes and the escaping of all tentations VVe celebrate the day of death because they doe not dye that seeme to dye Therefore also doe we make memories of the Sainctes and deuoutly keepe the memories of our parents or friendes dying in the faith as much reioysing in their rest as desiring for our selues also a godly finishing in faith So therefore we doe not celebrate the day of natiuitie because they which dye shall liue perpetually And thus we celebrate it calling togither the deuout men with the Priestes the faithfull with the clergy inuiting also the needy and poore filling the fatherlesse and widdowes with foode that our festiuitie or ioyfulnes may be done in remembraunce of the rest which is vnto the soules departed whose memory we celebrate may be made vnto vs a sauour of sweetenes in the sight of the eternall God. By this place it is manifest that Origen the east Church in his time acknowledged no purgatory paynes because he confesseth death to be the ende of all sorrowes to the faithfull Secondly that they pray not for their friendes soules as being in torment but that they reioysed for them because they were in rest Thirdly that the prayers which they vsed in the memories of the dead were not for the deade but for them selues which were aliue that they might likewise dye in the fayth as their friendes had done before them Fourthly that the assembly of the cleargy and people with the feeding of the poore was not to pray for the deade nor to merite for their soules but to reioyse for the rest of the deade and to be a sacrifice of thankesgiuing for them that were aliue This one testimony of Origen shall testifie what the iudgement of the greeke Church was concerning purgatory prayers for the dead from the Apostles time vnto his dayes I wotte well superstition in the Latine Church was somewhat forwarder in as much as there was the seate of Antichrist appoynted to be set vp according to the reuelation of S. Iohn and the exposition of Irenaeus who iudged that Lateinos was the number of the beastes name spoken of Apoc. 13. By the way it may be noted how M. Allen translateth religiosos the religious men which worde might well be vsed but that he would haue fooles to thinke that there were Monkes and fryers in that tyme which were vsed to be called to burials but it is playne that Origen calleth theÌ„ religious whom by and by after he calleth faithfull Moreouer in the latter end where he libbeth of the conclusion of Origens wordes he translateth vt fiat festiuitas nostra in memoriam c. That the memoriall of their rest might be kept solemnly yet when he hath clipped shauen pared gelded and falsified all that he can the dead be in rest and not in purgatory for whose sake he imagineth in Origens time
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
by it But Christ you say hath instituted this sacrifice to be offered vp for the remembraunce of his death the clensing of our sinnes Shew one word M. Allen out of the Scripture of any sacrifice instituted by Christ at his last supper or else you are a most horrible and blasphemous lyer The holy Ghost sayth we are sanctified by his will thorough the offering of the body of Christ once made for al and where remission of sinnes is there is left no sacrifice for sinne Heb. 10. But you are not content to ioyne your sacrifice of the masse as an appendix vnto the onely once offered and no more offerable sacrifice of Christ his death except you proceede and vtterly deny all the force and benefite of the oblation of his bitter passion For you say that Christ in his last supper not onely gaue to his Apostles but also offered to God his father that body which was after betrayed and that blood which was shed after also for remission of sinnes being that sacrifice which should succede the bloody offerings of the olde testament what place haue you here left for the passion of Christ O intolerable blasphemy Christ offered vp but one sacrifice and that you affirme to be before his death Christ offered but once and that you affirme to be at his supper By that one sacrifice which Christ did once offer he redemed vs from all our sinnes and that you affirme to haue bene offered in the sacrament Doe you not now plainly exclude the death and passion of Christ and all the merites thereof who can abide to heare you afterward when you say that the sacrifice of the masse is an application of the benefits of Christ his death vnto vs when now you affirme that it is the continuance of that sacrifice which Christ offered and instituted before his death who neuer offered but one sacrifice and that but once O Lord these blasphemers are more worthy to be beaten downe with thunderbolts then their blasphemies so directly contrary to the holy Scriptures haue neede to be confuted with wordes 2 Now this is that blessed sacrifice which S. Augustine with feare and reuerence termeth in a thousand places of his workes the sacrifice of the Altar the sacrifice of our Mediatour the sacrifice of our price the sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ the holsome and profitable sacrifice the sacrifice of Melchisedech the new sacrifice S. Chrysostom the reuerent sacrifice the honorable Mysteries the Fearefull sacrifice Athanasius the propitiatory sacrifice the vnbloody Host. S. Cyprian the sacrifice of the Church the perpetuall sacrifice the meate offering the medecine for our infirmities Irenaeus the pure sacrifice the new sacrifice of the new testament Clement againe the vnbloudy sacrifice the rationable sacrifice and so doth the holy Counsell of Ephesus call it Dionysius the sacrifice most excellent of all sacrificies and the hoste of hostes The Latines altogether afterward named it the holy Masse so did S. Augustine call it Ambrose Hierome Epiph. scholastic with all the posteritie both in Latin and other barbarous languagies Besides many other excellent high and peculiar callinges which can agree to no other common worship of God internall nor external but onely to this most worthy and honorable sacrifice which by the vertue that it hath receiued by the first examplar therof and by the might and mercy of the Lambe of God which vnder the couer of breade and wine is there the appointed hoste and oblation is profitable both to the quicke and the deade And therefore is hath ben vsed euer sith the Apostles age by Christes owne prescription and theirs commaunded to be religiously obserued and of all faythfull people honoured as the principall protestation of our religion as the grounde of all true worship as the badge of Christian peace as the bonde of holy society betwixt the heade and the membres as the loue knot betwixt Christ and his spouse as the vniting of the liue with the dead the holy sainctes with vs poore sinners Angells with men heuenly thinges with earthly and the Creator of all with his owne creatures beneth as the plentifull condeth to deriue the grace of Christes death and merites of his passiō to the continuall conforth of our soules as the onely practise of his eternall priesthood according to the ordre of Melchisedech as the only effectuall memoriall and comfortable memory of the sheeding of his blessed bloude and sufferance of so deare and painefull death for our redemption VVhat altar so euer be erected against this altar it is nothing els but a waste of Gods worship a canker of religion a token of dissension a separation of the holy society of the Christian communion a larome towardes schisme a departure from Christ an open badge of heresy a saulsy shouldering with Christes Church and ordinaunce an open robbry of his honour and priesthood a plaine stoppe of the passage of his giftes and grace in his louing house the onely waye to paganisme and eternall obliuion of his death and passion 2 Now we shall heare how many of the olde writers call it a sacrifice but he neede not take all that paynes for we confesse that the celebration of the Lordes supper is commonly but vnproperly called of them a sacrifice Howbeit they ment nothing lesse then to set vp a blasphemous aultar and new sacrifice and priesthoode against our Sauiour Christ the onely priest aultar and sacrifice of our redemption as Augustine calleth him but onely there meaning was that it was a remembraunce and memoriall of that onely sacrifice with thankes giuing for the same Augustine de fide ad Petrum Diaconum cap. 19. shewing the difference of the sacrifices of the olde lawe the onely sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of breade and wine which the Church offered sayth In illis enim carnalibus victimis figuratio fuit carnis Christi quā pro peccatis nostris ipse sine peccato fuerat oblaturus sanguinis quē erat effusurus in remissionem peccatorum In isto autem sacrificio gratiarum actio atque commemoratio est carnis Christi quam pro nobis obtulit sanguinis quem pro nobis idem Deus effudit For in these carnall sacrifices there was a figuring of the flesh of Christ which he being with out sinne shoulde offer for our sinnes and of his bloude which he shoulde shedde for remission of our sinnes But in this sacrifice there is thankes geuing and commemoration of the flesh of Christ which he offered for vs and his bloude which the same God shedde for vs In his 23. epistle to Bonifacius he sheweth that sacraments take the names of those thinges whereof they are sacraments by a certeine similitude and liknesse that they haue vnto the thinges them selues whereof they are sacraments And so the sacrament of Christes sacrifice is called a sacrifice as after a certeine manner the sacrament of Christes
gaue in commaundement that a memory should be had in the prayers of the Church for him as the custome was that all byshoppes after their death shoulde haue Here is now open practise of that which by wordes we proued before here is an euident testimonie of the vsage of the Greeke Church for the buriall of bishoppes and generall custome of keping their memoriall in the publike prayers and seruice of the Church It were not needefull to recite out of Eusebius the forme of Constantinus his funeralls kept in the same Church with solemnity of sacrifice singinge lightes and prayers Nor the buriall of the Emperour Constantius who as Nazianzenus writeth was brought forth with common prayses of all men with singing lightes and lampes all the night longe very honorably with which thinges saith he we Christian men thinke it a blessed thing to honour the memories of our freindes departed And if the aduersaries woulde here contentiously reason that these solemne rites of Christian burialls be nothing profitable or if the simple aske why they be profitable S. Chrysostome may instruct such as list learne and correct the other that list reprehende in these wordes Tell me saith he what all these festiuall lights in the buriall of the deceased meane what all this singing of Hymnes and Psalmes signifieth to what ende be so many priestes and musicians called together to which in fine he thus aunswereth do we not all these thinges to geue thankes to God and euerlasting glory that he hath deliuered the departed from the troubles of this mortall life do we not this to our comforte and honour of the departed And in the buriall of the Noble matrone Paula how the priestes did sing how the bishops of Hierusalem and of all Palestine and Syria for the most part caried torches how the religious both men and women did the rites of the dirigies how her almes folkes shewed their cotes to procure mercy euen as they did at Dorcas departure in the Actes of the Apostles how they cōtinued their singing and saying seuen dayes together at the Church in Bethleem where she was buried S. Hierom him selfe a true record thereof beareth witnesse in the like wordes as I haue recited and many moe which the feare of weereing the reader causeth me full sore against my will to omitte They so set forth not onely the substance of the thinge which standeth in prayer and sacrifice but also do proue against the enemies of good ordre that the smallest ceremonies that our Churchies of late haue vsed were not lately taken vp by our couetousnesse and superstition but with more aboundance and numbre and continuance and solemnytie practised in the flour of Christes Church in diuers principall partes of the worlde as at Hierusalem and Constantinople by the praysing and approuing of the grauest fathers of our faith 2 Why M. Allen what a mockery is this do you make bragge in the title of your chapter that you will shewe the practise of all holy men in words and prayers for the dead and nowe beginne your examples no higher then at Chrysostomes translation which was well neare 400. yeares after Christ The people with great plenty of lightes brought Chrysostomes body to Constantinople VVell this ceremony in carying torches at burialls being taken of the Gentiles they vsed to honour the memory of them that were deade as the ceremonies of the Heralds are vsed for the same ende What more The Emperour prayed for his fathers and mothers soules and as M. Allen thinketh but the story sayth not so he prayed to S. Chrysostome for them What else Atticus caused masse to be sayd for him that maketh vp all But where is any mention of masse or sacrifice of the masse M. Allen Are you such a cunning interpreter to expound celebrare sacra solemnia to say masse In deed such interpretations will help you well to finde that which else you might seeke long enough in the olde writers and goe without for all your labour It is all one with M. Allen to celebrate holy solemne seruice to say masse But you will say memory was made of him in the prayers so might there be and yet his soule not praied for ▪ but how agree you with your selfe M. Allen your opinion is that Theodosius praied to him as to a sainct in heauen howe then did Atticus cause him to be prayed for as one lying in purgatory I wisse you forget your selfe to much to vtter things so contrary so neare togither And as for the funeralls of Constantinus and Constantius what so euer you say haue no mention of Masse nor sacrifice of Masse In the buriall of Constantinus there is mention of prayer for his soule according to the error of the time and in the funeralls of Constantius there were lights but there is also shewed the vse of them as I haue touched already togither with the necessitie of some of them because they were lighted in the night The saying of Chrysostome with the example of the buriall of Paula shew nothing either of Masse sacrifice or prayer for the deade And whereas you bable of the rites of your popish dirige Ieronym saith al was singing of Psalmes and giuing thankes for her godly life happy departing Hebraeo Graeco Latino Syroque sermone Psalmi in ordine personabant Psalmes were song in Hebrewe Greeke Latine and Syrian language by course as there were diuers nations that came to honour the solemnitie of her funeralls Finally if your doctrine of purgatory were true yet Ieronym describeth her to be so perfect a woman as no prayers needed to be sayd for her her life was so full of good workes and her ende so full of faith And therfore M. Allen here is nothing for the sacrifice of the Masse whereof you made your promise to shew the practise in the chiefe partes of the worlde naming Ierusalem for one when Paula was buried at Betheleem and not at Ierusalem 3 And now S. Augustine being of Aphricke so farre from the other in distance of place yet ronneth ioyntly with them in religion He purposely writing of the solemne rites of Christian funeralls in that golden treatise De cura pro mortuis agenda thus after longe consideration of the whole cause determineth that the pompe of buriall with all such solemnyties as there vnto be in Gods Church ioyned is very seemely for that body which was the vessell of a Christian soule and an instrument or companion in well working whervnto it shall be also vnited in the resurrection for to receiue together the inheritance of the euerlasting kingdome But the lacke of these where they be not arrogantly contemned or can not be had is nothing hurtefull to the good nor the hauing any thing profitable to the wicked as the examples of Lazarus and the Riche man may well proue Therefore it is the sacrifice and prayers which properly do helpe or relieue the departed Curatio funeris sayth he
taking away of this olde faith of praying and offering for the dead all the workes of the same faith which ishued downe from that fountaine might shrinke with all or returne to the founders againe because there is no rowme to fulfil their willes how many Churches and Chappelles what Colledges or hospitalls woulde our newe no faith bring forth VVould not euery bishoppes wife builde a Church thinke you or founde a Colledge in such a necessitie lest their husbands shoulde be driuen to serue in a reformed french barne 6 Nowe as touching your vaine supposing if all such landes as were geuen to mainteine prayers for the deade or other like purposes either good or supposed to be good should reuerte to the heyers of their first founders for not performing the intent of the founders perhaps fewe monasteries colledges or hospitalles In Italy Spayne Fraunce or Flaunders shoulde enioyâ— one halfe peny worth of their landes or reuenewes They ment not onely to be prayed for but to be prayed for by men of honester conuersation then the greatest parte of those cloysterers are They are too well knowen to the worlde to be taken for that they be called holy religious and chaste But suppose as you sayde that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in though byshoppes wiues be not able to builde them yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquilitie vnder godly princes we shoulde haue as many and as faire builded Churches as the religion of Christ hath neede of Haue you not hearde of the Churches builded in Orleans and Antwerpe other places by the professors of the Gospell But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny I doubt not but all godly bishoppes had rather serue in a french reformed barne then in a popishe gilded minster And how so euer you iest like a scornefull caytifie of those holy assemblees of Gods children in Fraunce there barnes are more like those caues and vaultes vnder the earth that the olde Christian byshoppes were content to serue in before the time of Constantine theÌ„ your Idolatrous Babylonicall temples are like those princely buildings that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set vp for the publicke exercise of Christian religion 7 One of these mocke byshoppes complaines very sore in a booke of his that men be not now bent with such zele and deuotion to preferre Gods honour in maintenaunce of his Ministers as they were in olde time and as Constantinus with the like christiaÌ„ Princies in the primitiue Church were But the good man marked not wherevpon this colde deuotion ariseth he considereth not that this is the fructlesse effect of so idle a false faith as his owne lordship preacheth he would not see that the maintenaunce of Gods honour both by liefe landes and goods in the peculiar fructe of that charitable louing faith which the Catholikes doe professe he weyed not well that the great grauntes of Constantinus were made to Syluester Bishop of Rome and not to the maried Byshop of Duresme He remembred not that the like holy workes of the noble kinges of our owne countrie were practised vpon such as wouldâ— professe the trueth and serue the altar and not vpon false pastors that were destroyers of all altars Such honorable portions were parted out for Gods lot and not taken from the worlde to goe to the worldely againe Thinke you any man were so minded to take from his owne wife and children either landes or goods to bestow on priestes babbes or bedfellowes No no God knoweth it was separated from them selues to the sacrifice to the priesthoode to the honour of Gods Church and ministerie The which thinges by your owne preaching my lordes decaide woulde you haue the Prince or peoples deuotion towardes you as is was and woulde be still if you were like your predecessors and serued the altar as they did I wisse if the olde S. Cuthbert Wilfride and William whome they compare in holynesse to horsies so good is their opinion of their holy auncieters had bene of the same religion that the occupiers of their roumes now be all the Prelates in England might haue put their rentes in a halpeny purse Come in againe come in for Christes sake come in to the Church againe serue the altar and then you be wortâ—â— to liue of the altar followe our fathers and you shall be loued as our fathers were confesse that religion which our owne Apostles first taught and we all haue beleued and all the workes of Gods Church protest to be true and then you shall be blessed of God and honoured of men 7 You are a priuileged person as your owne talke doth declare and therefore you may prate what you list if he be a mocke bishoppe which beside his excellent learning is also a painefull and diligent preacher of the Gospell what are those vnlearned Asses and rechlesse ruffians of your secte which haue nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a myter or because I will not charge you with the worst what are they which if they haue some more learning then the rest of which number there are but fewe yet they count it the least part of their office to preach and teach which S. Paule counteth to be chiefe part of a Christian shepeheard ouerseer But to leaue the name come to the matter you mistake that godly mans complaint if you thinke he meaneth of superfluous buyldinges of Synagoges whereof you speake or the vnnecessary enryching of Prelates whereof you meane when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors which through the rauening of your gluttonous Monkes be robbed of their portions And whereas you aunswere it is the fruite of so idle a false faith as his lordship preacheth your mastership lyeth For that fayth which he preacheth is both a true and a working faith which if it were as generally receiued in this land as it is truely preached by him and others the ministers of Gods word could lacke no liuings as God be thanked they neither doe nor can lacke sufficient for necessity among so many of high authority nobility and wealth as doe vnfaynedly professe the Gospell and dayly bring forth the fruites of a true liuely working and onely iustifying fayth The Churches of Fraunce in time of greatest persecution yet haue alwayes liberally susteyned their Pastors And as for the great grauntes that Constantine made to Syluester Byshop of Rome of such as he made in deede he made to married Byshops of Rome as some of them were since Syluester time rather then vnto Syluester the coniurer Hildebrand the hell hounde Iulius the warriar or any that succeeded Boniface the third which beside their abominable life were all heretikes and Antichristes And touching such benefites as were receiued at the handes of princes and noble men of our cuntry if they were ment to be bestowed vpon the professors of the truth and such as serue the aulter of
purpose was wellcome and well receiued 4 S. Cyprian shall not be called to recorde for the Church of Aphrike or Carthage because we hearde his iudgement before who plainely commaunding the priestes vnder his iurisdiction not to celebrate for certaine notorious offenders geueth vs to witte that of right and custome it belonged in his prouince to others that passed hense in obedience and piety The which was continued in that part of the worlde till Augustines time being about C C. yeares after him Thus breefely he telleth you the practise of his Church In praecibus sacerdotis quae domino deo ad eius altare fundūtur locum suum habet etiam commendatio animarum In the prayers of the priest which are made to our Lorde God at his altar the commendation of the departed hath a place 4 S. Cyprian should be called to record if you could tel what to make him say He plainly commaunded the Priests vnder his iurisdiction not to celebrate for certeyne notorious offenders He writeth to the Elders Deacons and people of Furnitanes It were harde for you to proue that all they to whome he did write were vnder his iurisdiction But I haue aunswered before that neither prayer nor sacrifice for the dead can be proued out of that place but thankes geuing for the departing and sleeping in peace of the godly prayer for the liuing to make the like godly ende As for that which was done in Augustines time doth not proue what was done 200. yeares before him 5 Nowe for the Greeke Churchies and the Easte S. Chrysostome and Basil in their Massies for so nowe the worde Lyturgia is vsed of all the diuine writers and so Erasmus translateth it and so it must needes be taken beare sufficient witnesse of the Apostolike tradition in this point For in S. Chrysostoms seruice thus the prayer is made for the dead Remembre good Lord our spiritual father and all the brotherhood in Christ and all those that are departed hense in faith our fathers and our brethern c. And againe in the same Masse afterwarde thus he prayeth Remembre all those good Lorde which haue taken their sleepe in the hope of resurrection and life euerlasting Cause them to take rest where the light of thy countenaunce is shewed In S. Basilles Masse which the Syrians vse there is also prayers for the departed in which the minister desireth God to remembre all them which be passed out of this worlde and that he woulde refreshe them in his holy tabernacle saffely leade them through the horrible and fearefull dwellings place them in quiet and ioyfull abidinge that he woulde deliuer them from the lande of darkenesse troble and sorowe that he entre not into iudgement with them finally that he woulde mercyfully remitte and pardon what so euer they committed through the vesture of the flesh that was worthy punishment This prayer was pithy and toucheth the placies of punishment and purgation in the next life 5 Now come in the Liturgies vnder the name of Chrysostome and Basill which M. Allen wil needes translate masses and who can let him seeing he sayth the worde is so vsed of all diuine writers and Erasmus him selfe translateth it so This man is very generall alwayes all men all diuines c. But why is Erasmus brought in who as he translateth Lyturgia for Masse so he iudgeth that Chrysostome and Basill were not authors of those Lyturgies but some later men But be it that Chrysostome and Basill did write these Lyturgies the oldest fathers that can be geuen them I woulde knowe what Lyturgies they had in those Churches before Chrysostome and Basill deuised those formes that are sayed to be theirs And why Chrysostome Basill Gregory or any other that prescribed new formes of seruice were not content with the old formes that were vsed in their Churches before their dayes vndoubtedly because they were to simple for their curiositie to sincere for their superstition sauoring of the auncient trueth not fauoring their lately receiued errors They had in deede in elder time as appeareth by Ephiphanius the name of oblation but it was for the Patriarkes Prophets Apostles and martyrs which plainely sheweth that it was but an offering of thankes geuing as Cyprian doth declare that they offered sacrifice for Laurentius and Ignatius martyrs when they did celebrate the yearly dayes in commemoration of their suffering Lib. 4. epist. 5. Of which ceremonies and forme of speaking as the error perhaps tooke strēgth so the authors of these Lyturgies thought to confirme it by publicke authority which was before but a blinde error with out a heade 6 So there is extant an other ordre of diuine seruice and Celebration of the communion called the generall Canon vsed in Aethyopia which lately with the rest was set forth in Latine in that so generall an vsage there is supplication made to God for the soules also Remembre Lorde sayth the minister all those which are a sleepe and rest in the faith of Christ place their soules we besich thee in the bosome of our fathers Abraham Isaac and Iacob So likewise in the seruice of the Armeniās consonant for the most parte to the Greeke vsage after supplication in the time of the holy oblation for the liuing straight waye prayers be deuoutly made for the deade First the deacon saith Rogate dominum pro animabus quae requiescunt in pace in primis episcoporum hic quiescentium That is to say pray vnto our Lorde for the soules which rest in peace namely and before all other for the Byshoppes resting in this place And then he prayeth thus Remembre Lorde and haue mercy and shewe thy fauourable grace to all the soules deceased pacifie and illuminate them adioyne them to the company of holy sainctes in heauen and make them worthy of thy loue 6 For the Lyturgies of the Aethiopians and the Armenians as they are with the other before rehearsed a great deale more modest then your masses so are they not of such antiquitie that they can prescribe by continuall clame vp to the Apostles time nor with in a hundreth yeares and more of their time they sauoure plainely as you confesse of the Armenians the vsage of the Greeke Church which follow these Lyturgies which beareth name of Chrysostome and Basill 7 But S. Ambrose in his preparatory prayer towardes the holy oblation geueth vs an excellent token of his Churchies faith and a singular example to follow in the time of the dreadfull misteries when we remembre our freindes departed thus he saith Rogamus te sancte pater pro spiritibus fidelium defunctorum vt sit illis salus aeterna ac perpetua sanitas gaudium refrigerium sempiternum hoc magnum pietatis sacramentum ▪ domine Deus meus sit illis hodie magnum plenum gaudium de te pane viuo vero qui de coelo descendisti das vitam mundo de carne sancta
lye in euery tryfling matter you are worthy to be deceiued And that you may see I doe him no wrong see I pray you how shamefully he lyeth in this matter whereof he maketh such impudent assurance He sayth the same men which brought in the fayth brought in the same order of seruice and planted the same supplication wherein they haue vniformly continued c take away the same order and ouerthrow the fayth which they taught But who doth not know that Chrysostom Basill Ambrose Gregory which he nameth to be the first auctors of those orders of seruice formes of supplication which before he commended were not the first that brought in the fayth into Cappadocia Thracia or Italy But the Apostles them selues and that those Churches continued more then 300. yeares with other formes of publike prayers and celebration of the sacraments before these men were borne And where he sayth there was euer found in the celebration of the sacrament beside oblation of the host for the quicke and the deade both particularly and generally a solemne prayer for all departed in Christ You must take it as the rest of his assertions which be euer more generall then their probations But to reproue his vanitie the order of prayers and administration of the holy misteries described by Iustinus Martyr in his second Apologie and of Tertullian also in his Apologetico doe sufficiently declare what was the vsage of the Christians in those purer times And although there be not set forth vnto them what forme of wordes they vsed in their liturgie yet is it expressed for whom and what they prayed Oramus etiam sayth Tertullian pro Imperatoribus pro ministris eorum potestatibus saeculi pro rerum quiete pro mora finis We pray also for the Emperours for their ministers and the powers of this world for the quiet state of thinges for stay of the end Likewise he sheweth to whom they made their prayers and what was the chiefest sacrifice that they did offer Haec ab alio orare non possum quam à quo sciam me coÌ„secuturum quoniam ipse est qui solus praestat ego sum cui impetrare debetur famulus eius qui eum solum obseruo qui ei offero opimam maiorem hostiam quam ipse maÌ„dauit orationem de carne pudica de anima innocente de spiritu sancto profatam These thinges I can not require of any other but of him of whom I know I shall obteyne For it is he alone which graunteth and I am he which should obteyne being his seruaunt which worship him onely which offer vnto him that principall and great sacrifice which he him selfe commaunded namely prayer proceding out of a chast body out of a harmeles soule and from the holy spirite This he speaketh comparing the prayers and sacrifice of the Christians with the prayers and sacrifices of the Gentiles But that I may returne to M. Allen which referreth the institution of prayer and sacrifice for the deade to Christ at his last supper to the secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost to the faithfull deliuery of the Apostles and the constant continuance of all nations Of whom will he be a feard to lye when he fathereth such a blasphemy vpon the Apostles vpon the holy Ghost and vpon Christ him selfe But let vs consider your Sorites Christ you say no doubt did institute it where is the warraunt of this vndouted institution you aunswere secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost howe come we to the knowledge of this secrete suggestion By tradition of the Apostles who is witnesse that this is the tradition of the Apostles Tertullian Cyprian Augustine Ieronym and a great many more But if it be lawfull for me once to pose the Papistes as you do often the Protestants I would learne why the Lord would not haue this doubtlesse institution and as you take it the most necessary vse of the sacrament plainly or at least wise obscurely set foâ—th by Matthew Marke Luke or Paule which all haue set forth the story of the action of Christ the institution of the sacrament and the ende or vse of the same If it were not meete at all to be put in writing why was it disclosed by Tertullian Cyprian Augustine c. If it were meete to be put in writing why were not those chosen Scribes Matthew Marke Luke Paule worthy of all credit rather appoynted for it then Tertullian Cyprian Augustine and such as you name But against this counterfect institution secrete suggestion and fayned tradition S. Paule cryeâ—h with open mouth to the Corinthians 1. Cor. 11. That which I deliuered vnto vnto you I receiued of the Lorde that the Lord Iesus the same night c. In which wordes he declareth without couler or couerture what was the true institution of Christ of what witnesse he receiued it with what fidelitie he deliuered it what the sacrament is and what is the right vse of it to condemne all maner of abuses what so euer may rise either to corrupt this onely true substance and onely right order of ministration or to peruert this onely right vse and proper ende thereof I knowe the Papistes will flie to those wordes of the Apostle the rest I will set in order when I come but that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of externall comlines and not of doctrine of the sacrament as prayers and sacrifices that no man which vnderstandeth what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie can doubt or make any questioÌ„ of it Now touching the credit and worthynesse of these whom he so highly extolleth as I woulde not goe about to diminish it if they were to be compared with vs so when they are opposed against the manifest worde of God and the credit of the holy Apostles the instruments of the holy Ghost there is no cause that we shoulde be caried awaye with them But the controuersie is not as M. Allen sayth of the authoritie of the scriptures in this matter but of the true meaning of them which it is more like that they being such men then we so farre inferior to them should knowe I aunswere they them selues for the most parte confesse that prayer and oblation for the deade is not taken at all out of the scriptures as Tertullian Augustine and other the rest that woulde seeke confirmation in the scriptures as Chrysostome and such like doe so manifestly wrest them to their purpose that the Papistes them selues are ashamed to vse those textes of scripture for their proofes And as for such places as the later Papistes woulde violently draw vnto their error they haue fewe or none of the olde approued writers which though they allow their error yet that so interpret them as the place 1. Cor. 3. and Matth. 5. And what a shamelesse creature is M. Allen to say the controuersie is about the true meaning of the scripture when he him selfe in the next leafe before affirmeth that prayer and
they might in heate of contention and heresie casely drie vp the whole ishue therof And this earnest consideration causeth many at this daye to forsake their heresies and to be a greate deale mo at this time which know the trueth of this matter then when they beganne first to preach thereof 4 Bring this mans faith to Gregory then the streame shall driue him to Peter and Paule Nay M. Allen bring you your faith from Peter and Paule by good testimony of their holy writings and then you shall not neede to rowe in Cockelaurels bote neither with streame nor against it But you offer vs fayre play we must bring you one Bishop of Rome that did set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteyne and you will seeke a newe mother Church If I should bring you Sabinianus which controlled the decrees of Gregory or Stephanus that condemned the decrees of Formosus from which time the story testifieth that it grewe vnto a custome that euery Bishop would coÌ„demne his predecessors decrees you woulde aunswere that all this was without your compasse So will you say if I name Honorius who was an heretike of the sect of the Monothelites condemned both by his successor and by a generall councell I bring no small proofes M. Allen but such as you can not with for greater Looke in the sixt generall councell holden at Constantinople Acti 13. there shall you reade that the decretall epistle of Honorius whereby he confirmed Sergius in his heresie was redde and burned Honorius him selfe anathematized as an heretike Loke a litle further vnto the 18. action there shall you find the decretall epistle of Pope Leo the second written to the councell wherein he condemneth Honorius his predecessor for an heretike and his doctrine for heresie But what say you to Liberius Felix whereof eyther one or as Ieronym affirmeth both were Arians how were their decrees liked of their successors how did they allowe the decrees of their predecessors Finally where as you say that our earnest often preaching against the Pope hath wonne you so many Catholikes we will by Gods grace continue to gratifie you still by that meanes and geue you good leaue when you haue counted your cardes to boast of your winnings 5 But I will not presse them ouer sore suppose I graunt them that which they would so gladly winne that we had not our faith first from Rome though it be as false as God is true But suppose it were not so and I geue you leaue to father your faith where you will. If it be not vpon Latimer whome a foolish fellowe in the booke of conference betwixt Latimer and Ridley termeth the English Apostle as one more worthy of that name as he sayth then Augustine but else where you will and when you haue done proue me that your mother Church prayeth not for the departed in her Masse and solemne seruice and you shall be exalted vp for euer And at your next chaunge frame your newe communion after that olde vsage on Gods blessinge If you can finde any forme of celebration farre enough from ours followe it and spare not But I am sure you shall neuer be hable to finde any olde seruice in the worlde fit for your newe diet They be all to much like our Masse for your purpose as in deede alone in euery pointe of importance with ours As the Churches to whome they belonged perfectly before their decay in faith and vnity agreed with ours 5 Although we account Latimer for a worthy teacher and more worthy of the name of an Apostle for his apostolike doctrine then Augustine the Monke yet builde we our faith as you know neither vpon him nor any other but onely vpon the word of god And as for our mother Church is no certayne place or company of men in any one place vpon earth but Ierusalem which is aboue is mother of vs all Galat. 4. And who so euer were children of this Church would neuer find fault with our communion which can not be condemned by the worde of God and therefore careth not for the comparison of the custome of other men which whether they vsed the like or not in forme of wordes which is not materiall so they vsed not other substance of matter except they did it beside the word of god How like your Masse is to other couÌ„try masses when there was neuer any masse but yours I leaue it to consider and compare to all them that had rather see the truth them selues then to be deceiued by you 6 I am sure when you can not like your owne communion ye woulde not be pleaced with one of an others making But an other you must needes haue and further you must go from vs walke forwarde you will to the extreme ende of heresie and vtter denying of Christianity All the world can not stoppe your falling from the hill of Gods Church till you come in the bottomlesse pit of Hell. I woulde be loth to sclaunder them with the brute of the worlde which though it be in euery mans mouth that they like not this communion yes vpon that rumour I would not haue sayd so farre but that they haue vttered their owne meaning in a treatise of their owne making in these wordes In mariage as in all other thingeâ— beside we are but to much like vnto them that is our â—ault generally that we differ not more from them in all our ministerie These wordes vtter their griefe that they can got no further from vs in their seruice and that you be not deceiued the author of this booke where this complainte is made knoweth well the meaning of his fellowes herein and how gladde they woulde be shiftinge forwarde They sit on thornes till they be doing with a newe gise It is no worse man then the B. of Duresme that taketh colde in so longe a stand of their communion My simple head coulde not deuise how they might possibly go forwarde and kepe them with in any bonde of Christianity VVhat they caste in their braine for their further proceding I can not tell the serpent is suttel and our sinnes be greate 6 If any man mislike the forme of our seruice as not differing sufficiently from yours he sheweth his greater zeale in detestation of your idolatry and blasphemy In the meane time what neede this great wondring for once or twise alteration in the forme where the matter is still reteyned when if we shall beleue your owne stories your seruice hath not had much lesse then an hundreth innouations so often as one peece or other was added or patched to it And yet in this one cuntry of England howe many diuerse formes of seruice had you so that you could neuer grow to vniformitie Yorke Salesbury Bangor Hereford c. 7 I much maruaill not nowe to see the temporall Magistrates of their wisedomes to hedge these mens
hearte or eare coulde abide these blasphemous tonguesâ— who of vntolerable arrogancy doe so deface the examples and doctrine not onely of the pillours of the whole Christian Church whome they impudently for lacke of a more reasonable aunswere condemne not onely of simple ignoraunce and errour in this point with the residue of the whole faithfull people which surely is ouer much to say of such learned and godly men as they were but also of wilfull errour and superstition in bearing and maintenaunce of the common ignoration and ethnicke perswation of the worlde in their dayes and following the heathen vsage of the gentilitie And yet not content therewith these lying maisters of their meere mercy be content to offer a pardon to the author of that booke for his errour which booke the whole catholike Church of God through out Christiandome taketh for canonicall scripture VVhich arrogancy and passing boldnesse although I perswade my selfe no vertuous man will in them allowe sith they nowe being put to their shiftes vtterly doe condemne those fathers whose names with great oftentation they often to the simple repeate to make them suppose they be not with out scripture or doctors for the proofe of their willfull heresies yet euen the very aâ—nswere it selfe which they imagine here in to disgrace the doctors and delude the ignoraunt is contrary to it selfe in sundry points For they one while affirme that S. Augustine and others allowed that errour which the people by their superstitious deuotion had before their time brought in to the prayers of the Church and an other while that Iudas Machabaeus did institute it who was before these authors diuars hundreths of yeares and somewhile that they borowed it of the gentilitie all which pointes be repugnant eche to other For neither coulde that beginne in our Christian doctours dayes which was vsed before Christes birthe neither neede they to borowe it of the heathen which was in estimation and praysed amongest the Iewes 9 We neede no shiftes M. Allen for the authoritie of the doctors whome we neuer allow for canonicall Scriptures and therefore we may boldly say as Augustine sayth of Cyprian what so euer we find in them agreable to the Scriptures we receaue it with their prayse and what so euer is disagreeable to the Scriptures we refuse with their leaue Now by what meanes they fell into this errour that maintained prayer and almes for the dead I shal haue better occasion to shew in the aunswere to the 14. chapter although it be not greatly material to know how they came into errour when it is sufficiently proued that they did erre As for the abridgement of Iason the Cyrenians story which M. Allen maketh such a precious iewell I haue aunswered inough before that the author him selfe desiring pardon of his readers hath testified sufficiently that he was no scribe of the holy Ghost as also by many other vnauoydable reasons with the consent of the Catholike Church which it were superfluous here to repete Finally whereas you say that our aunswere is contrary to it selfe you seeke a knot in a rush For all may be true First the deuill suggested superstitious deuotion into the Gentiles by peruerse emulation of whom Iudas might be deceiued and his fact giue occasion to the ignorant people of errour and their ignorance first winked at because it had a shew of pietie confirmed by custome might at length be allowed of Augustine and others who neuer weighed the matter by Scriptures but by the commoÌ„ practise And this I thinke is the right degree of prayers for the deade and purgatory That the praying for the dead vvas appointed to be had in the holy sacrifice by the Apostles commaundement and prescription And that our doctors by the maiesty of their name beare dovvne our light aduersaries CAP. XIII 1 BVt that this falshood may better appeare in these men we will by good testimony trye out when and by whom the oblation and sacrifice with other ordinarie reliefes of the departed were so vniformely vsed through the Christian worlde as like wise it shall be profitable to consider who were the first authors of the contrary opinions And that the holy Ghost by the Apostles owne preaching and prescription was the first author of this solemne supplicatioÌ„ in masses of all vsages for the departed I might first proue by this generall rule of S. Augustine Quod vniuersa tenet ecclesia nec concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi authoritate apostolica traditum rectissime credimus that which the whole Church obserueth and hath alwayes so bene kepte being not instituted by any Councell it can not otherwise be had but by the Apostles authoritie and tradition And so by the like saying of Leo the greate Dubitandum non est quicquid in ecclesia in consuetudinem est deuotionis retentum de traditione apostolica de S. Spiritus prodire doctrina It can not be doubted but that what so euer is in the Church by generall custome of deuotion kept and mainteined it came out of the Apostles traditioÌ„ and doctrine of the holy Ghost But I will seeke with them by certaine demonstration and plaine ordre of reason that it must needes so be Praying for the deade was inuented by no man sith the Apostles dayes there can no one be named by the aduersary before whome I can not name an other that praide for the dead Let him say where he list this man or that man was the first that euer praide for the deade in Christes Church if I can not shewe an other before him so named to haue praide also we will take him for the first author and then he fully stoppeth our course that we can not bring this obseruation so high as the Apostles dayes But if the aduersary can apoint me out no time nor person that began this vsage before which I am not able to proue it was practised then they can not let vs but we must needs driue it vpwarde to the Apostles and Christes owne institution CAP. XIII 1 IF prayer for the deade was appoynted by the Apostles commaundement why is there neuer a worde thereof in their writinges there is warrant â—or lesser matters then this is made of why is this and all other popish trash counted their tradition which can not be warranted by their writing If I were disposed to pose you this question would make you clawe your poll an hundred times before you could imagine any couloâ—able aunswere for right aunswere you shall neuer be able to make But I take not vpon me to pose but to aunswere first your authoritie of Augustine serueth not your turne for prayers for the deade haue not bene alwayes obserued namely in the Apostles times nor long after The saying of Leo the great may be backed with the writing of Leo the great Epi. 10. Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendum veritatem aliquo impediuntur
obscuro non ad propheticas voces non ad apostolicas literas nec ad euangelicas auctoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt They fall into this folly which when they be hindered by any obscuritie to knowe the truth haue not recourse to the words of the Prophets nor to the writings of the Apostles nor to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues But therefore are they maisters of error because they haue not ben schollers of truth In these words Leo as great as you would haue him maketh the Scriptures not customes or traditioÌ„s the rule of truth But I will come to your demonstration which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine yet vnder correction of your demonstratiue Logike I may be bold to say it is not the proper way nor the way by which all doctrine may be tryed and so you breake 2. of those principal rules that Aristotle giueth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by coÌ„ferring it with the word of God Againe the first author of euery heresie can not be named There was one heresie of them that were called Acephali because there was no head knowne of them It is harde to name the first authour of the Manichees whom the heretikes them selues call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes the Ophâ—tes the Caineanes the Sethoites the Adamianes the Melchezedâ—chianes the Apostolike the Hemerobaptistes and an hundred more heresies shall they be thought to haue their heresie from tradition of the Apostles if the first author of them can not be named yet I weene it will be hard for him to proue out of any authenticall writer that any before Tertullian either named or allowed prayer for the deade who was almost 2. hundreth yeares after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answere me that this vsage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time though the first author can not be knowen I will also prouide that there no shift shall serue them Therefore I aske them whether that man which first preached it was resisted by the rest of Gods Church which before his preaching beleued the contrarie or no That is it say this doctrine of praying for the deade when it first came into the church did any of the true pastors free from the same error barke like a good shepheard against the beginner of that which they count so great a corruption of trueth Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one daye say what you thinke likest in this case aunswere with any probability or reason if you can saye plainely was our doctrine euer preaâ—hed against or neuer if it neuer were preached against then it neuer beganne as any noueltie or newe doctrine For it coulde not be that the Church being free from that doctrine shoulde straight without contradiction allowe that which they liked not before Howe can any man arise in the common welth and bring the vtter decay of all the olde ordres which he findeth and erect vp a new deuise of his owne and neuer man speake a word against him but all in one moment allow and like the same and that without all recorde by memory or monument of any chaunge But this thinge is most farre from the Churches and Gods pastors diligeÌ„ce that neuer receiued false doctrine without open contradiction and plaine noting the party that first began it as we shal plucke our gentlemen by the slieue a none All those that haue any skill in the antiquitie will beare me recorde that the pastors did neuer holde their peace when any wolfe did but once open his mouth against the sheepe They can tell that she did neuer beare the preaching or practise of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together then it must needes consequently followe that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations receiued in the Catholike Church had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God but hath ioyned from the first grounde of our Christian institution in Christes faith with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith Thus I make my argument euery falsehood was preached against and withstanded when it is first entered but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the deade being alwayes vsed was neuer controwled nor gainsaide in Gods Church therfore it is no falsehood nor euer had any later institution then the Apostles owne prescription 2 Supposing that this errour crept into the Church though the first author thereof can not be knowne he demaundeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be receiued I aunswere if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the vttermost it could not so easily haue preuayled And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that tyme opposed them selues against it although the history of the Church in that time whâ—n it began to be spreade is to briefe vnperfect that we should be able to name who they were that preached against it Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time it were hard to require and vnpossible to shew who preached against euery one of them at their first entrance yet they be damnable heresies In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth vnto vs who preached or writte against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome al the church as he confessed did hold that infants must receiue the holy communion or else they should be damned Who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day If euery heresie had bene beaten down as fast as it sprang Antichrist should neuer haue set vp his throne in the temple of god If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error that they which refused to beleue the truth should be iustly condemned to beleue lyes the man of sinne and sonne of perdition had neuer aduauÌ„ced him selfe aboue all that is called God. 2. Thessal 2. And therefore M. Allen plucke not vs by the sleue but your self by the nose you are the heretikes that refuse to beleue the truth you are they that turne away your eares from truth to fables you are they that attend to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills forbidding to marry and abstayning from meates which God hath created to be receiued with thankes giuing There is the brande marke of Romish religion that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea shal not be able to wash out Must we finde out the authors of your heresies Nay iustifie
them your selues by the worde of God if you can And because you bring in a witty example of the common wealth I will aunswere you with the like Must the Magistrate either iustifie a theefes possession or else bring out the author where he had it Nay the theefe must bring out good proofe howe and by whom he came by such goods or else he is worthy to be serued like such a one So shall you not compell vs to tell you where when or how your heresie came in seeing it is sufficient for vs to shew that it came not from God nor by the Apostles nor through their doctrine But you doe well to conclude your reason in a syllogisme for then by the weakenes therof doth appeare your maior and minor be both false or at the least wise vnable to be proued of you For euery falshod hath not bene preached against at the first entry And how are you able to proue that purgatory and praying for the deade hath not bene preached against therfore your conclusion is as true and as certeyne as your premisses 3 But what needes all this a doe by their owne consent we shall driue this doctrine thirtene C. yeares vpward For so neare was Tertullian the Apostles dayes whome they confesse to haue practised that pointe of oblations for the deade And aske him where he had it for surely he inuented it not him selfe and he appointeth vs to his forefathers he nameth the Apostles for the authors and founders thereof as of many other thinges which he there reckeneth beside that were generally receiued and nowe be of heretikes likewise contemned VVe might yet steppe two C. yeare forward and find amongest the Apostles owne hearers the same doctrine both allowed and practised but that they will make exception of Dionysius and Clements workes such shiftes men must finde that will defend falshood Other I will name that be out of their exceptions VVho I thinke as well for their time knowledge and credit as their excellent vertue both can and will better tell the origine of that thinge the authors whereof were more nigh their time then ours If they woulde beleue S. Augustine as they often professe they will the matter might soone be ended but because I feare they stand so much in the corrupt conceite of their owne singularitie that they will be bold to reiect him I shall both lay him to their charges diuers other of greater antiquity that shal in expresse words affirme this vsage to come from the Apostles owne schoole That thereby they may either acknowledge their errors or else by such graue and vncorrupt iudges be condemned of willfull malitious blindnesse Thus S. Augustine writeth By the prayers of the holy Church the profitable sacrifice and almes bestowed for the soules departed out of all doubt the deceased be releued so that thereby almighty God may deale more mercifully with them thē their sinnes required For this practise deliuered vnto vs by our fathers is obserued vniuersally in Christes Church that for such as be departed in the communion of Christes body and bloud when at the sacrifice they be orderly named praiers shoulde be made and the same sacrifice mentioned to be done for them Here by his words thou vnderstands that the profit rising by the prayers or sacrifice to the departed hath no doubt in it They were through the world vsed not in the Church which they say hath bene for nyne C. yeares corrupted by supersticious ignorāce but in that Church which our aduersaires doe confesse maugre their heades to haue bene holy Catholike and Apostolike And it was not then begon but receiued by the prouision of Gods holy spirite of the Apostles whome he calleth the fathers of our faith 3 It is not denied but Tertuillan maketh mention of oblations for the dead but what kind of oblations it is not yet agreed vppon but such they were as were offered for mens birthes for they be ioyned togither Oblationes pro defunctis pro natalitijs annua die facimus we make oblations yearely for the day of mens death and the day of mens birth Now it is not like they offered prayers but thākes giuing for mens birth and euen so for their death For those places out of the other bookes where he speaketh of prayers for mens spirites I will consider afterward But in this booke de corona militis if oblations were prayers which he saith came from the Apostles he vtterly denyeth that they came from the Scriptures Therefore by Tertullians iudgement you doe abuse the Scriptures which woulde wrest them to proue out of them that which he sayth can not be proued by them But think you prayers for the dead came from the Apostles because he sayth so If you aunswere yea then must you likewise thinke that it is a wicked thing to fast on Sonday or to pray on your knees for in the same place he sayth that these opinions came also from the Apostles If you aunswere he sayth vntruely of these so doe we answere of the other Now come backe of your 13. hundreth yeares to seeke your apostolike tradition where you can finde it All is not Gospell that Tertullian hath sayd As for the works of Clemens and Dionysius you know full well they be not currant and therefore I maruell at your modestie that you will not now oppresse vs with them But it is because you haue store enough beside Howbeit if the most auncient fayle you it is not for the later sorte to helpe you If Tertullian had no ground of his saying when he affirmed that oblations for the deade came from the Apostles what ground can Augustine haue which was 200. yeares farther from the Apostles time then he But where you charge vs to confesse that the Church in Augustines time was holy Catholike and Apostolike you must witte if you will that although we may so confesse in respect of the substance of true doctrine which then was taught yet we doe not therby iustifie euery error superstition of that age But as Augustine sayth in his retractations lib. 2. cap. 18. he doth not meane that the Church is pure and perfect in this life with out all spot of blemish for euen the whole Church by reason of certeine ignorance and infirmities of her members hath neede to say euery day Forgiue vs our debtes 4 Athanasius me thinke the aduersary part should quake when I name him who was in his dayes terrible to the wicked odible to heretikes to all vertuous mē an especiall stay in the troblesome times of the Church whose grace was so great that he abbrigeth our whole faith into a briefe psalme called the Creede of Athanasius which is beleued of all Christian men no lesse then the holy Scriptures of the new Testament VVho as he right well knewe howe to defend him selfe against the wicked Arrians by the doctrine of the Catholike Church so he hath left vs in writing howe to
prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian could proue that oblation for the deade came from them To detest fasting on Sunday and to pray kneeling with diuerse like superstitions Tertullian referreth to the Apostles as well as prayer for the deade deny one and doubt of all the rest And whereas M. Allen vpon contemplation of Chrysostome wordes falleth into a hidden agony cryeth alasse alasse if he would consider what the same man writeth vpon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone the losse is not so great Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quideÌ„ attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe in deede but small helpe yet let vs helpe them Loe M. Allen your owne doctor confesseth it is but smal help that can be procured by prayers almes or remembraunce of them at the celebration of the holy misteries You will say that soone after he sayth the Apostles that instituted such memory knewe that much commodity came to the deade Then see how soone he forgetteth him selfe when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture Againe howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to helpe them that were Catechumeni which were learning their catechisme and dyed before they were baptised S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this booke did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and dyed before he was baptised Againe how agreeth this with your catholike doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your handes that Chrysostome denyeth them prayers and alloweth them almes for their helpe Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio vno quodam dempto quo nam illo pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort but they be destitute of all such aide except one What one is that we may giue some thinge for their sake to the poore whereof some refreshing shall come vnto them 6 But heare I pray you what notable wordes S. Damascen hath for the vtilitie and institution of these thinges The holy Apostles and disciples sayth he of our Sauiour Christ haue decried that in the dread soueraigne vndefiled and liuely Sacraments â—o he calleth the Masse there shoulde be kept a memoriall of those that haue taken their sleepe in faith the which ordinaunce vntill this day without gainsaying or controwling the Apostolike and Catholicke Church of God from one cost of the wide world to an other hath obserued and shall religiously keepe till the world haue an ende For doubtlesse these thinges that the Christian religion which is without error free from falshood hath so many ages and worldes continued vnuiolably not without vrgent cause those thinges I say are not vaine but profitable to man acceptable to God and very necessarye for our saluation Thus farre spake the doctor setting forth not onely his owne minde but the faith of a numbre of the peeres of Gods Church wherein to proue this doctrine to be catholike he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue vs once for a rule to trye trueth by Prouing that it hath antiquitie as a thinge that came and hath continued euen from the beginning of the Christian religion declaring that it hath the consent of all nations because it is and hath bene practised through out all the costes and corners of the wyde worlde and last that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that euer were in the Church of christ And more then all this that it shall so continue till the ende though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted because it is receiued into a parte of that worship of God which in the Church can not perishe 6 As for Damascene I know not wherefore his authoritie serueth but to fill vppe the number for neither is his credit nor his antiquitie comparable with the former we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis concerning antiquity so you can proue that it hath God to be the author the Prophets and Apostles As for witnesse vnder this antiquitie that which had an erroneous beginning shall haue a shamefull ending 7 And this prescription of trueth our aduersaires can not auoyde but with such vnseemely dealing as I trust they them selues now be ashamed of as all other reasonable men are For now let them come with brasen facies and blasphemous tounges and say that prayers for the deade be vnprofitable that the rites of the buriall be superstitious that to say the Masse and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the soules departed is iniurious to Christes death that the doctors praised the errours of the ignorant people of their dayes that they all erred and were deceiued that the Church of Christ hath bene ledde in darke ignorance till these our dayes let them bestowe these vaine presumptious wordes where they maye take place for nowe all wise men doe perceiue that all these haue their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles practised vniuersally in the primitiue Church embrased of all godly people and approued to be wholy consonant to Gods worde by the pillors of Christes Church who so consonantly agree together in this point as well for the practise and proofe as for the beginning therof that to dissent from them and trust in these reedes of our dayes were meere madnesse that are pufte to and fro with euery blast of doctrine that care not what they say so that they say not as other their forefathers sayed that had rather then they woulde geue ouer a singular opinion of their owne imagination refuse and denie the authoritie of so many notable wise auncient godly and well learned fathers whome we haue named Although we haue left out many of no worse iudgement plainely auouching these thinges to come into Christes Church and worship by the ordinaunce of his holy Apostles All which thinges if our aduersaries haue reade then they are in a most miserable and heuy taking that doe withstand an open knowen trueth and as I feare against their owne consciences too Or if they haue not reade these plaine assertions of all learned men sith Christes time then they are most impudent that so vainely bragge in a matter whereof they are not skillfull But I trust God will open their eyes and breake their prowde hartes to the obedience of his holy Church 7 Nay M. Allen your prescription is not yet proued that this geare came from Christ and the Apostles The oldest witnesse that you haue alledged fathered manifest fables vpon the institution of Christ the Apostles as you your selfe can not deny if you haue any conscience at all and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling bragges
of Christes institution the Apostles tradition the vniuersall practise of the primitiue Church And what so euer great wordes beside you haue streyned your lunges to pronounce you haue sayd nothing for oblation or prayer for the deade to be the institution of Christ and all this geere but I may say the same for the drinking of milke and hony after baptisme for not fasting on Sonday ▪ or prayer on knees c by like vniuersalitie antiquitie consent authoritie 8 If the authors be past hope yet their followers shall take goodly occasion to forsake such wicked maisters and be ashamed of all their vndecent dealyng if they note and consider with me that the first preachers of this peruerse opinion were such that none of all their scholars durst euer for shame for the proofe of their assertion name their owne doctors And truely a man might well maruel why heretikes hauing some that did plainely professe their opinions had yet rather picke out some darke sentence of any one of our holy fathers whome they knowe to be directly against them then out of those same doctors of their owne which in expresse wordes make for them You shall not lightly heare an heretike that denieth praying to sainctes or holdeth with open breache of holy vowes alleage Iouinianus or Vigilantius Nor a Sacramentarie seeke for the authoritye of Berengarius or Wicleffe though they be of some antiquitie and without colour plainely doe mainteine the doctrine that so well lyketh them But they will trauell to writh with plaine iniurie to the author some sentence out of Augustine or Ambrose or some other that by their whole life and practise open them selues to the worlde to beleue the contrary and all this by some shewe of wordes for the bearing of their false assertions Marke it well I saye in heretikes that they can not for shame of them selues euer name any of the plaine auouchers of their owne opinions The cause is that the only vpholding of their opinions made them infamous to the whole posterity And if any honour grewe vnto them amongest the simple because they lacked not the wayes to procure the peoples consent with admiration of their eloquence or other plausible and populare qualities in their dayes yet trueth following time their same raised vpon so light causes easely decayd and the grounde of perpetuall infamie sattled in wise mens heartes by the wickednesse of their attemptes remained for a testimony to all posteritie of their shame and ignominie And this I speake not onely of the authors of our common sectes for they neuer atteined to any shade of famous report in their dayes because they coulde deceiue none but simple wemen but I meane by Arius him selfe and Pelagius with the like who in their owne time being of great esteeme amongest many whome they deceiued yet after their death more more they grew to shame and infamie so farre that who so euer were of their opinions afterward durste not yet for shame vse their name or authority for proofe of their owne doctrine See you not in our dayes howe freshe the name of Luther Caluin Bucer with that rable was amongest the rude people whome they had wonne either with speach or pleasure of licentious doctrine and loe nowe it decayeth in a maner or their bones be coulde The peoples sensies raueshed with the present pleasure of such as they hearde last like them so longe as they heare them afterwarde their memory remaineth onely to malediction Vidi impium superexaltatum eleuatum sicut Cedros Libani transiui ecce non est quaesiui non est inuentus locus eius I haue seene the wicked exalted and set vp as the Cedre trees of Libanus I passed by and loe out of hande he is no body I sought him and his abiding can not be founde VVho so euer shall seeke for our glorious preachers with in this C. yeare he shall finde them in such estimation then as their forefathers be nowe that is to say to be vnworthy the naming of their owne adherents if any of that secte liue and last so longe For let them neuer looke to come to the infamous fame of Arrius the best of all these secte maisters not worthy to be scholar to a hundreth of his followers Thus loe is the case of heretikes liked of fooles when they be alieue contemned of all men when they are deade 8 M. Allen marueileth and giueth a speciall note that we name not Iouinian Vigilantius Berengarius or VVickleffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hang vppon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose and thinketh we are ashamed of the other In deede if we depended vpon any mens authoritie or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with the popish faith we should be iniurious vnto them if we did not acknowledge our foūders as they doe some of theirs But seeing God him selfe is the father of that doctrine which we haue receiued by his holy word we neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius when they agree therewith We refuse not the truth that Tertullian Origin haue taught because they taught heresies also neither do we receiue the errors of Cypriā Augustin because they taught many points of true faith Onely the canonicall Scriptures are the rule by which we iudge of all men and their writings of all doctrine and the teachers therof It is a ridiculous thing that M. Allen like a cold Prophet taketh vpon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names within these hundred yeares But what so euer he prateth the memory of the righteous shall remayne for euer neither shall they be afrayde of any euill reporte their names are written in the booke of life which are ordeyned vnto eternall glory howso euer they be accounted of by the wicked of this worlde And yet there is no cause why we should not thinke that the names and writings of Luther Caluine and Bucer shal remayne in good account with Gods Church euen vntil they them selues shall come with Christ to iudge the worlde when in the meane time Eccius Pighius Cocleus and such other shall not be remembred but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospell 9 Now in the doctors of Gods Church it is cleane contrarie and no lesse worthy to be noted for our purpose for their honour and estimation rising vpon the sure vnfallible grounde of Gods trueth by yeares and time gathereth such force that not onely their memorie is in perpetuall benediction before God but their workes follow them in the mindes of their posteritie to their owne eternall praise and benefite of all their followers And which is much more to be woundered at they haue so passed enuy and malice of man that euen those which deadly hate them dare not but praise them And such as mislike their doctrine
whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
then trauailed through it in deede when you walked through the city of God which Augustine describeth I maruaile you could not see the westerne Babylon Rome to be the city or cōmon wealth of the deuill lib. 16. cap. 17. lib. 18. cap. 21. cap. 22. cap. 27. The mother of all abominations of the earth which either inuented or tempered of others inuention that golden cuppe full of abominations vncleanes of her whordoms with which she made drunken all the Kinges of the earth And therefore that we can not reade out of the word of God we shall heare of Purgatory among the Paganes Carpocratianes Heracleonites and Montanistes of whose heresies and pestilent practises the whore of Babylon hath patcht vp her purgatory and sacrifices for the deade as by and by I shall declare In deede the enuious man the deuil hath sowed these wicked sect masters And that doctrine which is first agreeable to Tertullians rule is vndoubtedly true and that which is later is false But howe shall the first doctrine be knowen but by the word of God wherein all the doctrine of God is taught But by the holy Scriptures which are able to make the man of God perfect and prepared to all good workes And seeing praying and offering for the deade as Tertullian him selfe confesseth is not taught by the Scriptures it is no good worke whereto the man of God should be prepared And for as much as you haue giuē me example of a syllogisme in Baroco in the last chapter I wil frame you the like nowe All good workes are taught by the Scriptures oblatiōs for the deade are not taught by the Scriptures therefore oblations for the deade are no good workes The maior is S. Paule 2. Timot. 3. The minor is Tertullians de corona militis Deny the conclusion if you dare 2 And yet besides that generall and most certaine instruction learned Damascen helpeth vs to the trial of this peculiar case Doubting not to affirme that all such cogitations as doe entre into mans head against the prayers or charitable workes for the departed be the deuills enuious and subtill suggestions for the hinderaunce of our brethern departed from the heauenly ioyes For thus he writeth in a sermon for the same purpose That olde serpent sayeth he whose endeuoure is to corrupt and deface the good and acceptable workes of God to lay snares for the entrapping of mens soules who is much perced through brotherly loue and brasteth in sunder for the enuy that he beareth towardes our faith and finally is madded by our naturall compassion one towardes an other as one that is the vtter renouncer of all good lawes he enspireth to some a fayned and false imagination cleane contrary to the holy constitutions that is to saye that all good and acceptable workes before God shoulde no whit proffet the departed soules If this writers iudgement be good as it is sure most sounde then must all our vnnatural and vnkind preachers haue an especiall inspiration of the deuill him selfe so often as they hinder fauour and grace from the deade For as he reduced our origin to the Apostles so he doubteth not to auouche the contrary perswasion to be euidently moued by the olde serpent of especiall enuie towardes mans saluation And nowe if thou list knowe in whome this subtill suggestion tooke first place and roote after the longe vsage of the other according to the Apostles planting we shall make thee for thy especiall comfort partaker thereof also VVe will not vse the aduersaries as they doe vs charging vs with later preaching or doctrine then the Apostles planted yet can neither tell where nor by whome it beganne But we shal by open euidence call the woolfe by his name Let an heretike but set out foot and once open mouth though he doe no harme at all yet the watcheman of Israell hath him by the backe straight The dogges were neuer so dumme in Gods Church but they woulde barke at the first apparance of any straunge cattell For that the notation of his arising and name was not onely a warning to the present time to take heede to their faith but an admonition to all the posteritie to beware of the like And it was euer counted a refutation of an heresie to the full to reduce it to a latter infamous author by the certaine recorde of the Churches historie The which kinde of reason both amongest the learned hath singular strength and is sensible for the people and of the aduersarie vtterly inuincible Irenaeus vseth it against the heresies of his time as a demonstration of much force VVhat saith he before Valentinus there was none of that his false secte and he came in with his seede after the first preaching of our faith a good while I can tell when he beganne howe he increased how longe he continued Both he and that other Cerdon entered first vnder the gouernment of Hyginius grewe vpwarde vnder Pius and continued till Anicetus time and so making the like accompt of other archeheretikes at length thus he concludeth all these rose vp in their apostacie longe after that the Church was ordered in faith and doctrine In this sense spake Irenaeus 2 Damascene your doctor which knew the depth of Satan so well should first haue reproued that perswasion by Scripture and then it had bene easy to haue found out the policie of the deuill But when we learne by Scripture that your doctrine is contrary to the fayth and hope of Christians it is not hard to iudge that the deuill inuented it vnder colour of charitie to ouerthrow faith and vnder shewe of helpe of mē to dishonour god You spend many words in vayne to proue that the first author of an opinion being found the opinion is found to be an heresy It shal be graūted with all fauour but so that no man shall be counted the first author of an opinion that is able to proue his opinion out of the word of god And withall that who so euer is not able to proue by the word of God any opiniō that he holdeth obstinatly though he haue many authors before him yet is he neuerthelesse an heretike 3 But the rule is common and certaine as any can be in the worlde and I woulde stande vpon the grounde thereof against all false doctrine in the worlde and thus it is Any opinion that may be truely fathered vppon any priuate man that was longe after the trueth was first preached by the Apostles if it be vpon a point of our faith and contentiously mainteined it is an heresie And thus againe who so euer was withstande in his first arising and preaching by such as were in the vnitie of the Church he was a false teacher and his abettours be heretikes And the force of this conclusion is so greate that the heretikes them selues if they can get any likely shew of raysing of any doctrine or practise of Gods Church in these latter
principle as certaine as the first That the spirite of God hath a meaning in the scriptures which is not to be sought out of the scriptures in the opinions of deceiuable men but onely in the scriptures where is nothing but the spirite of trueth These 2. commaundements serch the scriptures and trie the spirites teach how to attaine to certainety of trueth For the scriptures are not vnderstood but by the spirite and the spirites are not tryed but by the scriptures Therefore that the spirite maye declare his owne meaning one place of scripture must be expounded by an other All other ordinary meanes and healpes of wit learning knowledge of tongues diligeÌ„ce in hearing reading and praying are subordinate and seruing to this search and tryall And who so obserueth this serch and tryall most precisely shall come to the knowledge of the trueth most certainely And who so euer is negligent in this search and tryall though he haue otherwise neuer so many and excellent graces and giftes may easely be deceiued yea euen when he thinketh he followeth the authority of the scriptures I coulde alleage for confirmation of this truth the testimony of diuers of the auncient fathers which if they had alwayes followed that which some times they so highly commended they should not so lightly haue passed ouer some thinges and other thinges so slenderly haue mainteined But my thinkes the testimony of the Pope shoulde be a per se with all Papistes The Pope him selfe in his canon lawe for Cayphas some times doth prophecy hath allowed this to be the onely waye to expound the scriptures Affirming that no where else but euen out of the scriptures themselues the true sense of the scriptures is to be taken Ascribed to Clemens dist 37. cap. Relatum Lex Dei cum legitur non secundum propriam ingenij virtutem vel intelligentiam legatur vel doceatur Sunt enim multa verba in scripturis diuinis quae possunt trahi ad eum sensum quem sibi vnus quisque sparte praesumpserit sed non oportet non enim sensum extrinsecus alienuÌ„ extraneum debetis quaerere vt quoquo modo ipsum ex sâ—ripturarum authoritate confirmetis sed ex ipsis scripturis sensum capere veritatis oportet When the lawe of God is reade let it not be reade or tought after the force or vnderstanding of a mans owne witte For their be many wordes in the holy scriptures which maye be drawen to such sence as euery man of his owne heade shal presume to make but you may not doe so For you ought not to seeke forth without any forayne or strange sence that you may confirme it by any meanes by authority of the scriptures but you must take the sence of trueth out of the scriptures them selues And thus much for the true vnderstanding of the scriptures and now to your false superstition First I deny that any of the auncient fathers in Christ his time or scholers to his Apostles or within one or two hundreth yeares after Christ except one that had it of Montanus the heretike as he had more thinges beside in any one worde mainteined your cause for purgatory or prayers for the deade Secondly of them that mainteined prayers for the deade the most confessed they had it not out of the scriptures but of tradition of the Apostles and custome of the Church therefore they are not to be compared vnto vs in better vnderstaÌ„ding of the scriptures for that point which they denyed to be receiued of the scriptures Thirdly those of the auncient fathers that agreed with you in any parte of your assertion for none within foure hundreth yeares was wholy of your error notwithstanding many excellent giftes that they had yet mainteined other errors beside that and about that discented one from an other and sometime the same man from him selfe and that is worst of all from manifest trueth of the holy Scriptures Therefore neither is their erroneous interpretation in this matter to be receiued nor M. Allens wise iudgement of vs to be regarded An aunsvvere to such arguments as the heretikes doe frame of the holy scriptures not vvell vnderstanded against the practise of Gods Church in praying for the deade or the doctrine of Purgatory CAP. XVI 1 THerefore to stoppe their waye at euery turne and because they talke so fast of scripture full fayne woulde I heare what scriptures they haue that make either expressely agaynst purgatory and prayers for the deade or else by any one learned man in all the worlde was euer expounded for any such sense And loe now good reader what scriptures they alleage that can abâ—de nothing but scripture First out of Ecclesiastes The tree whether it fall to the south or the north it lyeth euer where it lighteth Then they alleage out of S. Matthews Gospell that there be two wayes one to bring to heauen and the other leading straight to hell And then out of the second to the Corinthians they bring in howe we must all stande before the iudgement seat of Christ there to receiue eche of vs according to our workes and life and that by other mens labour our state can not be ameÌ„ded Againe they allege this sentence of the Apocalypse Beati mortui c. blessed be the deade that dye in our Lorde for after that the spirite sayeth that they shall reste from trauells All which textes and the like of that sorte make no more against purgatory then they doe against hell or heauen excepte that as Anaxagoras the philosopher saide all thinges were in euery thinge so these diuines can finde euery texte of scripture to make for what purpose they liste and yet if the Catholikes alleage a numbre of scriptures and them with the minde and iudgement of the whole worlde that doubteth not but they proue that for which they be recited yet they set light by them and impudently with clamors beare men in hande that they haue no scriptures at all VVhich thinges as they smell of much arrogancie in all men so in these folke that so malâ—pertly controwle others where them selues haue no scripture at all it is vntolerable CAP. XVI 1 THis chapter is but pro forma tantum to make a shew of a confutation where neither the tenth parte of our arguments are rehearsed nor those that are named with any couller of reason and lest of all with authority of scriptures are confuted First he will allow vs but 4. textes of scripture because he will not take paines to wrest any more And those make nothing for vs except all thinges be in euery thinge as Anaxagoras said It should seeme M. Allen that you your selfe dreamed so with Anaxagoras else would you not finde purgatory in euery one of them which we saye is in none of them but rather excluded by them all But who can prescribe the deuill a measure in lying when he is disposed to lye we haue no scriptures at all the Catholikes
and the whole congregation yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons and the forme of the sacrifice named according to euery perticular state it is so farre of that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned euery of these perticular persons to doe as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer or haue sacrifice offered for thē What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any but speciall persons also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade When Nadab and Abihu were slayne their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them the people were permitted By all which it appeareth not only that no sacrifice for the deade was offered but that they were so separated from the liuing that the Priestes might haue nothing to do with any of them but in speciall cases And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade helpeth you nothing for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ yet there is one state of them that worke an other of them that are iudged according to their works to put no diuersitie betwene them is not to make a communion but a confusion But of all other it is a clerkely cōclusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vpon the example of your masse whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke the deade and thereof will proue that the olde lawe had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade In deede there you were to good for him if the practise of the popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law we will reason no longer But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt Surely then the fact of euery man that transgressed the lawe shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe For else how coulde he haue conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart which he neuer heard of except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart And euen so it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles whose studies and practises your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes then the preaching or keeping of the law Finally to all the other howe 's and whyes I aunswere with one word he had no warrant of his fact in the law of god Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere the heretike that would proue by that fact that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering yet they dyed in deadly sinne and such sinne as for which they were iustly slayne as your owne author confesseth for the idolatrous iewells that they had euery one in their bosomes Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine I haue aunswered enough before 4 But here will I nowe make an ende desiring thee gentle reader with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties as the importaunce of the cause the loue of truth the necessary care of thine owne saluation and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth There is none of all those pointes which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be and howe pernicious double and deceitfull the dealing of heresie is The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse vpon the phantasies of light and lewde persons that are pufte too and fro with euery blaste of doctrine The one resteth vpon the practise of all nations the vsage of all ages and the holy workes both of God and man the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue religion and deuotion the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules whose names be blessed in heauen and earth the other ioyneth to such as for other horrible heresies wicked life are condemned both a liue and deade of the vertuous and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnder God in earth To be shorte trueth is the Churches dearlinge heresie must haue her maintenaunce abrode This one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church is it wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement and by the bonde of our first faith and profession There is no force of argument no probability of reason no subtelty of witte no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome no eloquence of man nor Angell nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth compare our Church with theirs compare her authority and theirs her maiesty and theirs 4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently the doinges and dealinges on both partes the cause the trueth their saluation the Church and the glory of God aboue all thinges And as they see this pointe handeled so let them iudge of the reste The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture the error by custome practise and iudgement of men The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures of the spirite of God in the scriptures error at the mouthes of mortall men The trueth resteth vpon the onely authority of God error vpon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises The trueth is founded vpon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles the other vpon Gentiles and heretikes Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ vnto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist To be short trueth is tryed by the worde of God heresie by the inuention of men The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye