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church_n apostle_n baptism_n infant_n 2,706 5 8.6906 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A45830 Infants-baptism disproved and believers baptism proved, or, An answer to several arguments propounded in a paper by Mr. Alexander Kellie, minister at Giles Criple Gate London, and sent to Mr. Jeremiah Ives of the said parish and is now published for the general information of all, but particularly for the satisfaction of many of the inhabitants of the said parish who have desired it, wherein the arguments for infant-baptism are examined and disproved by the said Jeremia Ives. Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1655 (1655) Wing I1100; ESTC R31669 39,332 78

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baptize_v of_o he_o in_o the_o river_n jordan_n etc._n etc._n john_n 2.23_o john_n be_v baptize_v in_o aenon_n near_o to_o salim_n because_o there_o be_v much_o water_n there_o and_o they_o come_v and_o be_v baptize_v act_n 8.38_o 39_o it_o be_v say_v verse_n 38._o that_o they_o viz._n philip_n and_o the_o eunuch_n go_v both_o down_o into_o the_o water_n and_o when_o philip_n have_v baptize_v he_o it_o be_v say_v verse_n 39_o that_o they_o come_v out_o of_o the_o water_n i_o shall_v appeal_v to_o all_o unbiased_a man_n whether_o baptise_v man_n and_o woman_n in_o river_n upon_o their_o profess_v faith_n in_o christ_n do_v not_o better_a accord_n with_o these_o scripture_n then_o sprinkle_v water_n upon_o the_o face_n of_o infant_n beside_o four_o this_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n long_o after_o the_o apostle_n as_o appear_v first_o by_o what_o socrates_n scholasticus_n in_o his_o ecclesiastical_a history_n report_v of_o constantine_n the_o great_a that_o though_o he_o 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other_o country_n and_o church_n who_o do_v not_o suffer_v any_o to_o do_v so_o till_o they_o be_v baptize_v socrates_n lib._n 5._o cap._n 2d_o which_o plain_o show_v that_o infant_n baptism_n be_v not_o a_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n for_o if_o it_o have_v this_o church_n of_o alexandria_n that_o have_v for_o the_o space_n of_o some_o hundred_o year_n be_v convert_v to_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n will_v by_o this_o time_n if_o all_o believer_n have_v baptize_v their_o infant_n as_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o other_o do_v now_o adays_o one_o generation_n after_o another_o have_v be_v without_o any_o that_o be_v able_a to_o read_v and_o interpret_v the_o scripture_n before_o baptism_n as_o we_o see_v the_o nation_n of_o engl_n now_o be_v a_o few_o anabaptist_n child_n so_o call_v except_v otherwise_o where_o be_v your_o oathecumenist_n that_o be_v able_a to_o read_v &_o understand_v the_o holy_a script_n before_o you_o baptize_v they_o and_o that_o they_o in_o those_o time_n do_v follow_v the_o way_n of_o christ_n in_o baptise_v and_o not_o your_o basin_n way_n appear_v for_o the_o same_o socrates_n lib._n 7._o cap._n 4._o speak_v of_o a_o jew_n which_o be_v baptize_v by_o soticus_fw-la bishop_n of_o constantinople_n who_o say_v he_o as_o soon_o as_o he_o be_v take_a out_o of_o the_o water_n his_o palsy_n leave_v he_o can_v it_o be_v say_v so_o of_o any_o that_o you_o baptize_v that_o they_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o water_n the_o same_o author_n further_o say_v lib._n 7._o cap._n 17._o of_o a_o jew_n that_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v upon_o his_o profession_n of_o faith_n by_o paulus_n the_o novatian_a bishop_n that_o all_o thing_n be_v provide_v for_o his_o baptism_n among_o which_o he_o say_v the_o bishop_n do_v provide_v he_o a_o linen_n garment_n which_o be_v to_o no_o purpose_n if_o he_o have_v not_o be_v to_o dip_v the_o person_n in_o water_n and_o bellarmive_v himself_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o old_a time_n they_o have_v woman_n in_o the_o church_n who_o they_o call_v to_o the_o office_n of_o deaconness_n to_o attend_v upon_o the_o woman_n that_o be_v baptize_v with_o baptise_v clothes_n and_o i_o translate_n the_o lamentation_n of_o origen_n say_v that_o origen_n lament_v and_o bewail_v the_o vow_n that_o he_o make_v when_o he_o be_v baptise_a in_o that_o he_o have_v now_o by_o sin_n walk_v contrary_a to_o it_o however_o origen_n be_v himself_o think_v to_o favour_v this_o practice_n afterward_o yet_o those_o thing_n be_v but_o the_o suppose_a work_n of_o origen_n and_o it_o be_v hard_a to_o say_v whether_o it_o be_v his_o or_o no._n again_o eusebius_n who_o write_v the_o ecclesiastical_a history_n of_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n after_o christ_n though_o he_o tell_v we_o of_o all_o the_o most_o observable_a passage_n of_o those_o time_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v the_o baptise_v of_o one_o infant_n but_o do_v often_o time_n mention_v thing_n in_o favour_n to_o the_o baptise_v of_o man_n upon_o profession_n of_o faith_n as_o appear_v lib._n 7._o cap._n 8._o of_o his_o ecclesiastical_a story_n where_o he_o relate_v of_o a_o man_n that_o hear_v the_o question_n that_o be_v by_o the_o minister_n ask_v of_o person_n to_o be_v baptize_v and_o their_o answer_n to_o they_o fall_v down_o and_o weep_v at_o the_o minister_n foot_n because_o the_o baptism_n that_o he_o have_v receive_v of_o the_o heretic_n be_v not_o like_o the_o baptism_n that_o be_v in_o use_n than_o which_o plain_o show_v that_o at_o this_o time_n the_o church_n do_v not_o receive_v man_n to_o baptism_n but_o upon_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o also_o that_o it_o be_v no_o apostolical_a custom_n to_o baptize_v infant_n further_o beza_n himself_o upon_o act_n 17.3_o say_v that_o they_o profess_v in_o baptism_n the_o doctrine_n propound_v by_o john_n and_o beside_o this_o how_o often_o have_v mr._n tomb_n and_o mr._n den_n and_o other_o produce_v sufficient_a proof_n that_o this_o practice_n of_o baptise_v infant_n be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o primitive_a time_n as_o you_o imagine_v that_o memorable_a instance_n of_o gregory_n nazianzen_n who_o father_n be_v a_o bishop_n and_o his_o mother_n a_o virtuous_a woman_n yet_o himself_o be_v not_o baptize_v till_o he_o come_v from_o athens_n where_o as_o socrates_n say_v lib._n 4._o cap._n 21._o he_o have_v spend_v much_o of_o his_o time_n in_o the_o study_n of_o rhetoric_n again_o that_o other_o instance_n of_o mr._n tomb_n out_o of_o hugo_n grotius_n in_o his_o annotation_n upon_o mat._n 19.14_o that_o even_o chrysostome_n though_o bear_v of_o christian_a parent_n be_v not_o baptize_v till_o he_o be_v 21_o year_n of_o age_n the_o same_o grotius_n add_v that_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o synod_n of_o neosesarea_n hold_v in_o the_o year_n 315_o determine_v that_o a_o woman_n with_o child_n may_v be_v baptize_v because_o baptism_n do_v not_o reach_v the_o fruit_n of_o her_o womb_n because_o in_o the_o confession_n make_v in_o baptism_n every_o one_o free_a choice_n be_v show_v he_o add_v further_a that_o many_o of_o the_o greek_n to_o his_o time_n do_v defer_v the_o baptise_v little_a one_o till_o they_o can_v themselves_o make_v a_o confession_n of_o their_o faith_n again_o be_v not_o the_o image_n of_o this_o custom_n to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n when_o they_o ask_v what_o be_v require_v of_o person_n to_o be_v baptise_a and_o the_o answer_n be_v repentance_n whereby_o they_o forsake_v sin_n and_o faith_n whereby_o they_o believe_v the_o promise_n of_o god_n which_o afterward_o by_o change_v the_o command_n of_o god_n into_o a_o tradition_n of_o their_o own_o they_o do_v use_v to_o ask_v the_o godfather_n and_o godmother_n a_o conceit_n that_o be_v never_o hear_v of_o till_o the_o church_n have_v apostatise_v from_o their_o primitive_a purity_n and_o as_o for_o the_o manner_n of_o baptise_v by_o dip_v the_o person_n in_o the_o water_n however_o it_o be_v now_o laugh_v at_o you_o see_v it_o be_v not_o only_o that_o which_o as_o i_o have_v say_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n command_v and_o practise_v but_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o church_n for_o a_o long_a time_n after_o &_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v look_v upon_o it_o as_o a_o more_o commendable_a way_n in_o as_o much_o as_o they_o in_o their_o service-book_n do_v place_n dip_v before_o sprinkle_v and_o therefore_o they_o say_v the_o person_n dip_v or_o sprinkle_v etc._n etc._n now_o may_v i_o not_o better_o say_v that_o if_o you_o have_v look_v over_o the_o command_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o trace_v the_o footstep_n of_o the_o primitive_a practice_n in_o this_o point_n for_o 300_o year_n after_o you_o may_v have_v save_v i_o a_o labour_n and_o yourself_o too_o than_o you_o can_v say_v i_o may_v have_v save_v you_o a_o labour_n if_o i_o have_v look_v over_o the_o writing_n of_o a_o few_o man_n that_o you_o have_v name_v who_o have_v not_o in_o all_o their_o book_n cite_v either_o a_o command_n or_o example_n for_o infant_n sprinkle_v but_o only_o some_o far-fetched_a non-sequitors_a which_o most_o of_o your_o paper_n be_v fill_v withal_o i_o shall_v now_o conclude_v leave_v what_o i_o have_v say_v in_o answer_n to_o your_o argument_n for_o your_o practice_n and_o the_o plain_a scripture_n i_o have_v urge_v for_o my_o own_o practice_n to_o your_o judgement_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o to_o who_o this_o shall_v come_v and_o desire_v that_o like_o the_o berean_o you_o and_o all_o other_o that_o shall_v peruse_v this_o will_v search_v whether_o what_o i_o have_v say_v in_o the_o premise_n be_v of_o god_n or_o no_o and_o if_o in_o your_o conscience_n you_o or_o any_o else_o do_v so_o fie_v it_o to_o be_v take_v heed_n then_o what_o you_o do_v in_o oppose_v of_o it_o lest_o you_o be_v find_v sighter_n against_o god_n and_o what_o have_v fall_v from_o my_o pen_n that_o be_v not_o according_a to_o god_n word_n i_o shall_v desire_v that_o you_o or_o any_o else_o will_v show_v it_o i_o either_o in_o word_n or_o writing_n and_o it_o shall_v thankful_o be_v receive_v as_o a_o favour_n by_o sir_n your_o friend_n to_o serve_v you_o jer_n ives_n finis_fw-la
man_n as_o well_o upon_o the_o other_o hand_n say_v that_o he_o that_o refuse_v the_o apostle_n refuse_v to_o baptize_v the_o apostle_n as_o you_o may_v say_v the_o receive_n or_o non_fw-la receive_v of_o infant_n be_v a_o receive_n of_o they_o to_o or_o a_o reject_v they_o from_o baptism_n again_o he_o that_o receive_v a_o angel_n of_o god_n be_v say_v to_o receive_v god_n may_v not_o a_o man_n as_o well_o plead_v from_o hence_o therefore_o angel_n may_v be_v baptize_v as_o you_o may_v in_o say_v he_o that_o receive_v a_o little_a child_n receive_v christ_n therefore_o a_o little_a child_n must_v be_v baptize_v and_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o a_o refuse_v to_o baptize_v infant_n be_v a_o refuse_v to_o receive_v christ_n how_o strange_o do_v you_o contradict_v yourself_o do_v not_o you_o say_v in_o the_o former_a part_n of_o your_o paper_n that_o many_o that_o we_o baptize_v be_v not_o inward_o and_o effectual_o call_v till_o afterward_o now_o do_v not_o this_o plain_o prove_v that_o we_o that_o refuse_v to_o baptize_v child_n do_v yet_o notwithstanding_o receive_v christ_n for_o what_o be_v it_o to_o be_v inward_o and_o effectual_o call_v but_o to_o receive_v christ_n in_o the_o four_o place_n you_o say_v that_o mr._n kellie_n they_o be_v include_v in_o baptism_n for_o who_o christ_n appear_v so_o much_o as_o we_o find_v mark_v 10.13_o luke_n 18.15_o which_o you_o say_v luke_n say_v be_v infant_n etc._n etc._n mr._n ive'_v i_o answer_v you_o take_v great_a pain_n to_o prove_v that_o which_o nonce_n deny_v that_o these_o that_o christ_n take_v in_o his_o arm_n be_v infant_n but_o how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o which_o be_v deny_v that_o these_o infant_n be_v baptize_v by_o christ_n you_o say_v that_o christ_n reprove_v his_o disciple_n for_o not_o suffer_v the_o infant_n to_o come_v to_o he_o which_o show_v plain_o that_o baptise_v they_o be_v no_o part_n of_o their_o business_n that_o bring_v they_o first_o because_o if_o it_o be_v a_o command_n of_o christ_n to_o baptize_v infant_n the_o disciple_n that_o be_v his_o messenger_n be_v then_o ignorant_a of_o a_o great_a part_n of_o their_o message_n that_o they_o be_v to_o deliver_v in_o their_o ministry_n or_o else_o 2_o if_o they_o do_v know_v that_o it_o be_v their_o work_n and_o christ_n command_n to_o baptize_v infant_n they_o be_v desperate_o wicked_a in_o keep_v any_o from_o it_o this_o be_v not_o only_o to_o break_v a_o command_n but_o to_o teach_v man_n so_o and_o to_o be_v guilty_a of_o that_o abominable_a evil_n the_o pharisee_n be_v guilty_a of_o viz._n of_o not_o enter_v into_o heaven_n themselves_o nor_o suffer_v other_o this_o will_v follow_v if_o to_o keep_v infant_n from_o baptism_n be_v to_o keep_v they_o from_o christ_n as_o you_o will_v make_v it_o but_o that_o they_o be_v not_o baptize_v when_o they_o come_v to_o christ_n appear_v because_o the_o text_n say_v john_n 4.2_o that_o jesus_n himself_o baptize_v not_o but_o his_o disciple_n and_o whereas_o you_o say_v mr._n kellie_n hand_n be_v lay_v upon_o they_o by_o which_o great_a thing_n than_o baptism_n be_v do_v mr._n ive'_v i_o answer_v by_o the_o same_o rule_n you_o may_v give_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o sacrament_n to_o infant_n because_o great_a thing_n be_v do_v by_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n then_o eat_v bread_n and_o drink_v wine_n and_o why_o do_v you_o not_o by_o this_o rule_n preach_v to_o child_n in_o their_o cradle_n because_o great_a wonder_n be_v wrought_v by_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n than_o ever_o be_v do_v by_o preach_v who_o see_v not_o but_o this_o argument_n be_v as_o strong_a for_o preach_v to_o infant_n and_o give_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o infant_n as_o it_o be_v for_o baptise_v infant_n and_o yet_o though_o you_o allow_v they_o baptism_n you_o deny_v they_o both_o the_o other_o ordinance_n you_o say_v christ_n bless_v they_o as_o well_o as_o lay_v hand_n on_o they_o which_o say_v you_o be_v as_o much_o if_o not_o more_o th●n_a baptism_n and_o be_v not_o his_o blessing_n as_o much_o if_o not_o more_o than_o your_o give_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o supper_n to_o they_o why_o then_o do_v you_o deny_v they_o of_o it_o you_o say_v mr._n kellie_n that_o be_v a_o good_a reason_n for_o christ_n to_o bless_v they_o viz._n because_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n belong_v to_o they_o and_o therefore_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v a_o good_a reason_n for_o we_o to_o baptize_v they_o mr._n ive'_v i_o answer_v first_o why_o this_o be_v not_o a_o good_a reason_n for_o christ_n to_o baptize_v they_o &_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v he_o baptize_v none_o 2_o do_v not_o infant_n right_a to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n entitle_v they_o to_o all_o other_o ordinance_n as_o well_o as_o baptism_n since_o under_o the_o gospel_n whoever_o be_v find_v to_o be_v member_n of_o a_o true_a church_n by_o baptism_n have_v also_o fellowship_n of_o all_o other_o church-priviledge_n except_o they_o have_v by_o some_o scandalous_a evil_n deprive_v themselves_o thereof_o so_o that_o infant_n right_a to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n serve_v nothing_o for_o your_o present_a purpose_n your_o five_o reason_n be_v mr._n kellie_n have_v be_v branch_n of_o the_o true_a olive_n rom._n 11.17_o therefore_o they_o be_v include_v in_o the_o command_n of_o baptism_n mr._n ive'_v i_o answer_v first_o by_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n for_o the_o infant_n of_o believer_n be_v not_o branch_n of_o the_o olive_n in_o the_o text_n but_o only_o such_o as_o do_v actual_o believe_v and_o there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o mention_n make_v of_o their_o infant_n in_o the_o whole_a chapter_n for_o the_o 20_o verse_n say_v that_o for_o want_v of_o faith_n the_o jew_n be_v break_v off_o and_o by_o faith_n the_o gentile_n do_v stand_v which_o faith_n be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v in_o your_o infant_n you_o plead_v for_o 2_o to_o be_v branch_n by_o generation_n if_o that_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o text_n can_v not_o give_v they_o a_o right_n to_o baptism_n because_o the_o jew_n be_v natural_a branch_n and_o yet_o that_o can_v not_o give_v they_o a_o right_n to_o baptism_n without_o faith_n your_o six_o reason_n be_v mr._n kellie_n because_o infant_n of_o believer_n be_v abraham_n seed_n and_o so_o consequent_o member_n of_o christ_n gal._n 3.16_o and_o baptism_n you_o say_v be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o our_o incorporation_n into_o christ_n 1_o cor._n 12.13_o therefore_o you_o say_v they_o that_o be_v member_n of_o christ_n shall_v not_o be_v deny_v that_o ordinance_n mr._n ive'_v i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o your_o presumption_n do_v the_o word_n of_o god_n any_o where_n say_v that_o the_o carnal_a seed_n of_o believer_n be_v member_n of_o christ_n do_v it_o not_o say_v the_o contrary_a that_o even_o abraham_n own_o seed_n be_v not_o the_o child_n of_o god_n as_o they_o be_v his_o carnal_a seed_n rom._n 9.7_o neither_o because_o they_o be_v the_o seed_n abraham_n be_v they_o child_n which_o be_v expound_v verse_n 8._o that_o be_v say_v the_o apostle_n they_o which_o be_v the_o child_n of_o the_o flesh_n they_o be_v not_o the_o child_n of_o god_n 2_o again_o how_o dare_v you_o say_v that_o the_o natural_a seed_n of_o believer_n in_o their_o infancy_n be_v the_o seed_n of_o abraham_n since_o that_o abraham_n own_o seed_n be_v under_o the_o gospel_n no_o otherwise_o reckon_v for_o his_o seed_n then_o by_o believe_v gal._n 3.7_o know_v you_o therefore_o that_o they_o which_o be_v of_o faith_n the_o same_o be_v the_o child_n of_o abraham_n v._o 9_o they_o which_o be_v of_o say_v be_v bless_v with_o faithful_a abraham_n and_o what_o ever_o abraham_n seed_n and_o the_o proselyte_n seed_n be_v account_v under_o the_o law_n it_o make_v not_o at_o all_o to_o your_o purpose_n unless_o you_o prove_v god_n do_v so_o account_v of_o they_o under_o the_o gospel_n and_o therefore_o the_o apostle_n say_v not_o of_o seed_n as_o to_o many_o but_o to_o thy_o seed_n which_o be_v christ_n so_o that_o by_o this_o which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o gal._n 3.16_o it_o appear_v the_o promise_n be_v not_o make_v to_o the_o natural_a seed_n of_o believer_n but_o unto_o christ_n or_o they_o that_o be_v member_n of_o his_o mystical_a body_n by_o believe_v and_o the_o apostle_n tell_v they_o that_o so_o many_o of_o they_o as_o have_v be_v baptize_v into_o christ_n have_v put_v on_o christ_n which_o be_v by_o make_v profession_n of_o christ_n which_o your_o infant_n do_v not_o and_o therefore_o the_o same_o apostle_n conclude_v that_o if_o they_o be_v christ_n than_o they_o be_v abraham_n seed_n not_o if_o they_o be_v believer_n natural_a child_n that_o they_o upon_o any_o such_o consideration_n shall_v be_v heir_n of_o the_o promise_n your_o seven_o reason_n be_v
they_o circumcise_v be_v disciple_n now_o if_o you_o look_v to_o the_o forego_n verse_n you_o shall_v see_v that_o the_o false_a teacher_n teach_v circumcision_n to_o the_o brethren_n and_o not_o to_o infant_n and_o tell_v the_o disciple_n that_o if_o they_o be_v not_o circumcise_v they_o can_v not_o be_v save_v and_o now_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o they_o will_v have_v circumcise_v infant_n as_o well_o as_o old_a folk_n do_v this_o prove_v infant_n be_v old_a folk_n no_o more_o do_v your_o say_n they_o will_v circumcise_v disciple_n prove_v infant_n to_o be_v disciple_n you_o proceed_v to_o a_o three_o reason_n why_o child_n shall_v be_v disciple_n and_o that_o be_v this_o viz._n mr._n kellie_n that_o if_o you_o shall_v grant_v they_o be_v not_o learned_a but_o ignorant_a yet_o ignorance_n you_o say_v do_v not_o debar_v from_o circumcision_n therefore_o not_o from_o baptism_n mr._n ive'_v i_o answer_v by_o show_v you_o how_o willing_a you_o be_v to_o gather_v up_o any_o thing_n to_o serve_v your_o turn_n though_o nothing_o to_o purpose_n one_o while_o they_o viz._n infant_n be_v to_o be_v baptize_v because_o believer_n child_n do_v know_v the_o lord_n and_o be_v teach_v of_o god_n etc._n etc._n and_o now_o you_o plead_v they_o may_v be_v baptize_v though_o ignorant_a what_o a_o miserable_a shuffle_n be_v here_o what_o knowledge_n the_o cause_n all_o this_o while_n and_o now_o be_v baptize_v though_o they_o be_v ignorant_a what_o strange_a logic_n be_v this_o but_o to_o the_o consequence_n viz._n ignorance_n you_o say_v do_v not_o hinder_v from_o circumeision_n therefore_o not_o from_o baptism_n i_o answer_v first_o ignorance_n can_v not_o hinder_v infant_n from_o that_o which_o god_n command_v parent_n to_o do_v unto_o their_o child_n while_o they_o be_v infant_n so_o that_o if_o god_n have_v command_v parent_n to_o baptize_v their_o infant_n than_o their_o ignorance_n can_v not_o hinder_v no_o more_o than_o it_o can_v hinder_v their_o parent_n from_o circumcise_n they_o after_o god_n have_v command_v it_o but_o here_o you_o do_v beg_v the_o question_n by_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o god_n command_v infant_n to_o be_v baptize_v as_o he_o do_v command_v the_o child_n of_o abraham_n to_o be_v circumcise_a 2_o again_o in_o gospel_n worship_n whatever_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin_n god_n will_v in_o gospel_n worship_n be_v serve_v in_o spirit_n which_o be_v a_o service_n no_o where_o require_v of_o infant_n therefore_o ignorance_n must_v needs_o hinder_v infant_n from_o that_o which_o god_n no_o where_n require_v and_o which_o they_o be_v no_o way_n capable_a to_o perform_v you_o go_v on_o and_o tell_v we_o that_o mr._n kellie_n ignorance_n do_v not_o hinder_v peter_n from_o his_o master_n wash_v his_o foot_n john_n 13.7_o 8._o the_o 7_o verse_n you_o say_v show_v his_o ignorance_n and_o the_o 8_o the_o necessity_n of_o his_o wash_n mr._n ive'_v why_o do_v you_o not_o conclude_v somewhat_o from_o hence_o or_o else_o why_o do_v you_o bring_v it_o if_o you_o bring_v it_o to_o prove_v that_o therefore_o ignorance_n may_v not_o hinder_v child_n from_o baptism_n then_o pray_v see_v whether_o or_o no_o peter_n do_v not_o know_v christ_n wash_v his_o foot_n and_o whether_o in_o reason_n can_v you_o believe_v that_o christ_n can_v wash_v peter_n foot_n and_o peter_n be_v as_o ignorant_a of_o his_o wash_n as_o your_o baby_n be_v of_o their_o sprinkle_n again_o it_o plain_o appear_v that_o peter_n be_v ignorant_a not_o of_o the_o wash_n itself_o but_o of_o somewhat_o christ_n will_v make_v know_v by_o it_o which_o be_v to_o show_v that_o they_o who_o he_o wash_v shall_v learn_v of_o he_o to_o do_v so_o to_o other_o and_o therefore_o christ_n ask_v his_o disciple_n if_o they_o know_v what_o he_o have_v do_v to_o they_o now_o they_o can_v not_o but_o know_v he_o have_v wash_v they_o but_o they_o do_v not_o know_v that_o he_o have_v hereby_o set_v they_o a_o copy_n to_o write_v after_o and_o therefore_o if_o your_o child_n have_v as_o much_o knowledge_n of_o christ_n when_o you_o baptize_v they_o as_o peter_n have_v when_o christ_n wash_v his_o foot_n though_o they_o may_v not_o know_v all_o circumstance_n relate_v to_o baptism_n than_o indeed_o it_o be_v somewhat_o to_o your_o purpose_n to_o quote_v this_o place_n again_o be_v it_o not_o a_o strong_a sign_n of_o a_o weak_a cause_n that_o you_o shall_v compare_v the_o ignorance_n of_o peter_n to_o the_o ignorance_n of_o your_o infant_n his_o be_v but_o a_o partial_a ignorance_n in_o a_o circumstance_n and_o your_o babe_n be_v total_o ignorant_a of_o both_o substance_n and_o circumstance_n again_o this_o law_n of_o wash_v the_o disciple_n foot_n be_v never_o in_o practice_n before_o till_o christ_n now_o do_v it_o and_o command_v it_o and_o therefore_o no_o marvel_n though_o the_o apostle_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o end_n of_o it_o till_o it_o be_v declare_v neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o qualification_n require_v in_o wash_v one_o another_o foot_n as_o be_v require_v in_o baptism_n you_o proceed_v and_o say_v that_o mr._n kellie_n the_o scripture_n do_v not_o say_v none_o shall_v be_v baptize_v but_o understand_a disciple_n and_o if_o it_o do_v you_o say_v yet_o that_o have_v not_o exclude_v infant_n for_o the_o apostle_n say_v he_o that_o will_v not_o labour_v must_v not_o eat_v and_o yet_o child_n say_v you_o must_v not_o starve_v though_o they_o do_v not_o labour_v mr._n ive'_v to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o say_v you_o shall_v not_o baptize_v bell_n nor_o go_v a_o pilgrimage_n why_o then_o do_v not_o you_o do_v these_o thing_n 2_o again_o it_o do_v not_o say_v as_o we_o have_v elsewhere_o observe_v that_o the_o child_n of_o abraham_n shall_v not_o be_v circumcise_v the_o six_o or_o four_o day_n why_o then_o do_v not_o they_o do_v it_o before_o nor_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o say_v infant_n shall_v not_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n why_o do_v you_o then_o refuse_v to_o give_v it_o they_o do_v you_o not_o plain_o see_v that_o you_o condemn_v other_o in_o the_o thing_n you_o allow_v for_o you_o condemn_v we_o that_o will_v not_o baptize_v our_o infant_n because_o you_o say_v it_o be_v no_o where_n forbid_v why_o may_v not_o other_o as_o well_o condemn_v you_o for_o refuse_v to_o give_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o infant_n by_o the_o same_o rule_n because_o it_o be_v no_o where_n forbid_v i_o but_o you_o will_v say_v it_o be_v implicit_o forbid_v 1_o cor._n 11.28_o because_o the_o text_n say_v let_v a_o man_n examine_v himself_o and_o so_o let_v he_o eat_v and_o child_n can_v examine_v themselves_o in_o the_o like_a manner_n say_v i_o infant_n be_v deny_v baptism_n because_o the_o scripture_n say_v he_o that_o believe_v and_o be_v baptize_v etc._n etc._n mark_v 16._o and_o if_o thou_o believe_v thou_o may_v be_v baptize_v act_v 8._o do_v not_o these_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o rational_a man_n as_o plain_o exclude_v infant_n from_o baptism_n as_o the_o other_o scripture_n do_v exclude_v they_o from_o the_o supper_n but_o you_o presume_v and_o say_v that_o mr._n kellie_n if_o the_o scripture_n have_v say_v none_o but_o understand_v disciple_n shall_v be_v baptize_v that_o have_v not_o exclude_v infant_n mr._n ive'_v be_v not_o this_o strange_a that_o you_o shall_v say_v that_o they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v exclude_v though_o the_o scripture_n do_v exclude_v they_o do_v you_o not_o hereby_o give_v we_o to_o understand_v that_o let_v the_o word_n of_o god_n say_v what_o it_o will_v you_o will_v do_v what_o you_o listen_v neither_o do_v you_o think_v to_o mend_v the_o matter_n by_o that_o place_n of_o scripture_n 2_o thess_n 3.10_o if_o any_o will_v not_o work_v he_o shall_v not_o eat_v now_o you_o seem_v to_o conclude_v from_o hence_o that_o though_o child_n do_v not_o work_v yet_o they_o must_v eat_v ergo._n though_o child_n do_v not_o believe_v yet_o they_o must_v be_v baptize_v now_o see_v the_o fallacy_n the_o text_n do_v not_o say_v he_o that_o do_v not_o work_n as_o you_o say_v when_o you_o apply_v it_o to_o infant_n but_o he_o that_o will_v not_o work_v now_o if_o there_o be_v any_o child_n that_o will_v not_o work_v they_o must_v not_o eat_v viz._n of_o the_o church_n charity_n therefore_o infant_n and_o they_o that_o be_v impotent_a it_o can_v be_v say_v of_o they_o that_o they_o will_v not_o work_v now_o if_o god_n have_v give_v you_o the_o like_a command_n to_o baptize_v child_n in_o their_o infancy_n as_o he_o have_v do_v to_o father_n and_o mother_n to_o feed_v they_o in_o their_o infancy_n than_o you_o have_v say_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n otherwise_o you_o have_v as_o good_a have_v say_v nothing_o mr._n kellie_n