Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	answer_v	prove_v	true_a	4,426	5	4.8087	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A97108	Tolleration iustified, and persecution condemn'd. In an answer or examination, of the London-ministers letter whereof, many of them are of the synod, and yet framed this letter at Sion-Colledge; to be sent among others, to themselves at the Assembly: in behalf of reformation and church-government, 2 Corinth. II. vers. 14. 15. And no marvail, for Sathan himself is transformed into an angell of light. Therefore it is no great thing, though his ministers transform themselves, as though they were ministers of righteousnesse; whose end shall be according to their works.	Walwyn, William, 1600-1681.	1646 (1646)	Wing W692A; Thomason E319_15; ESTC R200561	14,731	18

to_o the_o state_n but_o you_o will_v say_v that_o by_o such_o a_o toleration_n blasphemy_n will_v be_v broach_v and_o such_o strange_a and_o horrid_a opinion_n as_o will_v make_v the_o ear_n of_o every_o godly_a and_o christian_a man_n to_o tingle_v what_o must_v this_o also_o be_v tolerate_v i_o answer_v it_o can_v be_v just_a to_o set_v bound_n or_o limitation_n to_o toleration_n any_o further_a than_o the_o safety_n of_o the_o people_n require_v the_o more_o horrid_a and_o blasphemous_a the_o opinion_n be_v the_o easy_a suppress_v by_o reason_n and_o argument_n because_o it_o must_v necessary_o be_v that_o the_o weak_a the_o argument_n be_v on_o one_o side_n the_o strong_a they_o be_v on_o the_o other_o the_o grosser_n the_o error_n be_v the_o more_o advantage_n have_v truth_n over_o it_o the_o less_o colour_n likewise_o and_o pretence_n there_o be_v for_o impose_v it_o upon_o the_o people_n i_o be_o confident_a that_o there_o be_v much_o more_o danger_n in_o small_a but_o specious_o form_v error_n that_o have_v a_o likeness_n and_o similitude_n to_o truth_n then_o in_o a_o gross_n and_o palpable_a untruth_n beside_o can_v it_o in_o reason_n be_v judge_v the_o meet_a way_n to_o draw_v a_o man_n out_o of_o his_o ●●ror_n by_o imprisonment_n bond_n or_o other_o punishment_n you_o may_v as_o well_o be_v angry_a 〈…〉_z ●●ripes_n or_o bond_n to_o recover_v his_o sight_n how_o pr●posterous_a will_v this_o 〈◊〉_d your_o ho●per_n ●nd_v mee●_n way_n ●u●e_n be_v to_o apply_v thing_n 〈◊〉_d to_o his_o cute_a and_o so_o likewise_o to_o a_o man_n who_o understanding_n be_v cloud●d_fw-mi 〈…〉_z and_o imperfect_a who_o mind_n be_v so_o far_o misinform_v as_o to_o 〈…〉_z or_o the_o scripture●_n for_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o worst_a of_o error_n ●a●_z b●●lam_fw-la or_o the_o fleet_n reduce_v such_o a_o one_o n●_n certain_o it_o be_v ever_o find_v by_o all_o experience_n that_o su●●_z rough_a 〈◊〉_d do_v 〈◊〉_d the_o error_n not_o remove_v i●_z nothing_o can_v do_v that_o but_o the_o 〈◊〉_d and_o 〈◊〉_d power_n of_o find_a reason_n and_o argument_n which_o 〈◊〉_d to_o b●_n doubt_v they_o be_v 〈◊〉_d furnish_v withal_o that_o use_n other_o weapon_n hence_o have_v i_o observe_v d_o that_o the_o most_o weak_a and_o passionate_a man_n the_o most_o unable_a to_o defend_v truth_n or_o their_o own●_n opinion_n be_v the_o most_o violent_a for_o persecution_n whereas_o those_o who_o mind_n be_v establish_v and_o who_o opinion_n be_v build_v upon_o firm_a and_o 〈◊〉_d grou●d_fw-mi ●eare_fw-mi no●_z what_o wind_n blow●_n fear_v not_o to_o grapple_v with_o any_o e●ror_n because_o they_o bo●●d_fw-mi ●n●_z they_o 〈◊〉_d overthrow_v it_o 3._o independency_n be_v a_o schism_n and_o therefore_o not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v the_o principal_a argument_n bring_v to_o prove_v it_o be_v this_o because_o they_o d●part_v from_o the_o presbyter_fw-la church_n which_o be_v true_a church_n and_o so_o confo_v to_o ●o_z 〈◊〉_d by_o ●he_a i●depend●nt●_n i_o answer_v that_o this_o argument_n only_o concern_v the_o 〈◊〉_d because_o they_o only_o acknowledge_v they_o to_o be_v true_a church_n whether_o they_o be_v still_o of_o that_o opinion_n o●_z no_o i_o know_v not_o it_o be_v to_o be_v doubt_v they_o be_v not_o especial_o 〈◊〉_d they_o have_v discern_v the_o spirit_n of_o enforcement_n and_o compul●ion_n to_o ●aig●_z in_o that_o c●ur●h_n the_o tr●est_n mark_v of_o a_o false_a c●urch_n i_o believe_v the_o independent_n have_v ●●●nged_v their_o 〈◊〉_d ●_z es●eially_o those_o of_o they_o who_o pastor_n r●●●ive_v their_o office_n ●nd_v mi●is●try_n 〈◊〉_d the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n or_o congregation_n and_o be_v not_o engage_v to_o allow_v so_o much_o 〈◊〉_d the_o presbyter_n because_o of_o their_o own_o interest_n as_o derive_v their_o call_n from_o the_o bis●ops_n and_o pope_n for_o the_o make_n up_o a_o suppose_a succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n who_o se●_n their_o own_o sake_n be_v enforce_v to_o acknowledge_v the_o presbyter_n for_o ●_z true_o church_n 〈◊〉_d the_o 〈◊〉_d be_v necessitate_v to_o allow_v the_o episcopal_a and_o papist_n church_n true_a o●_n valid_a fo●_z the_o substance_n as_o they_o confess_v in_o the_o ordinance_n for_o ordination_n because_o they_o have_v receive_v their_o ministry_n therefrom_o without_o which_o absurdity_n they_o can_v maintain_v their_o succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n but_o that_o the_o independent_n be_v not_o a_o schism_n they_o have_v and_o will_n i_o believe_v upon_o all●occa●ions_n sufficient_o justifi●_z i_o shall_v not_o the●e●or●_n ●ince_n it_o concern_v they_o in_o particular_a 〈◊〉_d thereupon_o 〈…〉_z to_o the_o suppose_a mischief_n which_o the_o minister_n say_v will_v ●nevitably_o fo●low_v upon_o th●●_z toll●r●tion_n both_o to_o the_o church_n and_o commonwea_fw-mi the_o first_o to_o the_o church_n 1._o causeless_o ●nd_v unjust_a revol●s_v from_o our_o ministry_n and_o congreg●tions_n to_o this_o i_o say_v that_o i●_z argue_v a_o abundance_n of_o distrust_n the_o minister_n have_v in_o thei●_z own_o ability_n and_o the_o doctrine_n they_o pr●●ch_n to_o suppose_v their_o auditor_n will_v for●●k●_z they_o if_o other_o man_n have_v liberty_n to_o speak_v it_o be_v authority_n it_o seem_v ●ust_a 〈◊〉_d thei●_z church_n and_o not_o the_o truth_n and_o eff●a●cy_n of_o their_o doctr●nes_o i_o j●dge_v it_o ●or_a my_o pa●●●●ufficient_a ground_n to_o suspect_v that_o for_o gold_n that_o can_v abide_v a_o trial_n it_o seem_v our_o minister_n doctrine_n and_o religion_n be_v like_o dagon_n of_o the_o p●ilistins_n that_o will_v fall_v to_o pie●●s_n at_o the_o appearance_n of_o the_o ark_n truth_n sure_a will_v be_v more_o confident_a in_o hope_n to_o app●●●_n 〈…〉_z glorious_a be_v set_v off_o by_o falsehood_n and_o therefore_o i_o do_v adjure_v the_o minister_n from_o ●hat_o loveliness_n and_o potency_n that_o necessary_o must_v be_v in_o truth_n and_o righteousness_n if_o ●hey_n think_v they_o do_v profess_v it_o that_o they_o will_v procure_v the_o open_n of_o every_o man_n mouth_n in_o confidence_n that_o truth_n in_o whosoever_o she_o be_v will_v prove_v victorious_a and_o ●ike_v the_o sun_n glorious_a lustre_n darken_v all_o error_n and_o vain_a imagination_n of_o man_n heart_n but_o i_o fear_v the_o consequence_n stick_v more_o in_o their_o stomach_n the_o empty_n of_o their_o church_n be_v the_o eclipse_n of_o their_o reputation_n and_o the_o diminish_n of_o their_o profit_n if_o it_o be_v otherwise_o le●_n it_o appear_v by_o a_o equal_a allow_n of_o that_o to_o other_o which_o they_o have_v labour_v so_o much_o for_o to_o be_v allow_v to_o themselves_o 2._o our_o people_n mind_n will_v be_v trouble_v and_o in_o danger_n to_o be_v subvert_v act_n 15._o 24._o a._o the_o place_n of_o scripture_n may_v concern_v themselves_o and_o may_v as_o well_o be_v urge_v upon_o they_o by_o the_o separation_n o●_z independent_n as_o it_o be_v urge_v by_o they_o upon_o the_o separation_n and_o independen●s_n namely_o that_o they_o trouble_v the_o people_n mind_n and_o lay_v injunction_n upon_o they_o they_o be_v never_o command_v to_o lay_v and_o it_o be_v very_o observable_a the_o most_o of_o those_o scripture_n they_o urge_v against_o the_o separation_n do_v most_o proper_o belong_v unto_o themselves_o 3._o bitter_a heart-bur●ings_n a●ong_a brethren_n will_v be_v foment●d_fw-mi and_o perpetuate_v to_o all_o posterity_n i_o answer_v not_o by_o but_o fo●_z want_n of_o a_o toleration_n because_o the_o state_n be_v not_o equal_a in_o its_o protection_n but_o allow_v one_o sort_n of_o man_n to_o trample_v upon_o another_o from_o hence_o must_v necessary_o ●rise_v heartburning_n which_o as_o they_o have_v ever_o be_v so_o they_o will_v ever_o be_v perpetuate_v to_o posterity_n unless_o the_o state_n wise_o prevent_v they_o by_o take_v away_o the_o distinction_n that_o foment_v they_o namely_o the_o particular_a indulgency_n of_o one_o party_n and_o neglect_v of_o the_o other_o by_o a_o just_a and_o equal_a toleration_n in_o that_o family_n strife_n and_o heartburning_n be_v common_o multiply_v where_o one_o son_n be_v more_o cockered_a and_o indu●ged_v then_o ●nother_a the_o way_n to_o foster_v love_n and_o amity_n as_o well_o in_o a_o family_n as_o in_o a_o state_n be_v ●n_o equal_a respect_n from_o those_o that_o be_v in_o author●●y_n 4._o they_o say_v the_o godly_a painful_a and_o orthodo●_z minister_n will_v be_v discourage_v and_o d●spis●d_a answ._n upou_fw-la how_o slight_a foundation_n be_v their_o reputation_n support_v that_o fear_v be_v despise_v unless_o author●●y_n force_v all_o to_o church_n to_o they_o since_o they_o have_v confidence_n to_o vou●h_n themselves_o godly_a painful_a and_o orthodot_n methinks_v they_o shall_v vot_o doubt_v a_o ●udience_n the_o apostle_n can_v empty_v the_o c●urches_n and_o jewish_a synagogue_n and_o by_o the_o prevalency_n of_o their_o doctrine_n convert_v 3000_o at_o a_o sermon_n and_o do_v our_o minister_n f●are_v that_o have_v the_o opportunity_n of_o a_o church_n and_o the_o

mention_v notable_a instance_n of_o late_a action_n of_o service_n in_o independent_n and_o separatist_n which_o arise_v but_o from_o hope_n of_o such_o a_o freedom_n can_v yet_o scarce_o be_v parallel_v by_o any_o age_n or_o story_n 3._o they_o say_v it_o be_v much_o to_o be_v doubt_v lest_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v not_o only_o be_v weaken_v but_o even_o utter_o overthrow_v consider_v the_o principle_n and_o practice_n of_o independent_n together_o with_o their_o compliance_n with_o other_o sectary_n sufficient_o know_v to_o be_v antimagistratical_a a_o injurious_a but_o common_a scandal_n this_o whereof_o much_o use_n have_v be_v make_v to_o the_o mislead_v the_o people_n into_o false_a apprehension_n of_o their_o brethren_n the_o separatist_n to_o the_o great_a increase_n of_o enmity_n and_o disaffection_n among_o we_o whereof_o the_o minister_n be_v most_o especial_o guilty_a let_v any_o impartial_a man_n examine_v the_o principle_n and_o search_v into_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o separation_n and_o he_o must_v needs_o conclude_v that_o they_o be_v not_o the_o man_n that_o trouble_v england_n but_o those_o rather_o that_o lay_v it_o to_o their_o charge_n the_o separation_n indeed_o and_o independent_n be_v enemy_n to_o tyranny_n none_o more_o and_o oppression_n from_o whence_o i_o believe_v have_v arise_v the_o forementioned_a scandal_n of_o they_o but_o to_o just_a government_n and_o magistracy_n none_o be_v more_o subject_a and_o obedient_a and_o therefore_o the_o minister_n may_v do_v well_o to_o lay_v aside_o such_o obloquy_n which_o will_v otherwise_o by_o time_n and_o other_o discovery_n turn_v to_o their_o own_o disgrace_n in_o the_o last_o place_n they_o say_v it_o be_v opposite_a to_o the_o covenant_n 1._o because_o opposite_a to_o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n i_o answer_v 1_o that_o the_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n be_v not_o bind_v further_o then_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o word_n of_o god_n so_o that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n indeed_o be_v the_o only_a rule_n now_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v express_v for_o toleration_n as_o appea●es_v by_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o tare_n grow_v with_o the_o wheat_n by_o those_o two_o express_a and_o positive_a rule_n 1._o every_o man_n shall_v be_v full_o persuade_v of_o the_o t●uth_n of_o that_o way_n wherein_o he_o serve_v the_o lord_n 2._o that_o whatsoever_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin_n and_o 3._o by_o that_o rule_n of_o reason_n and_o pure_a nature_n cite_v by_o our_o bless_a saviour_n namely_o whatsoever_o you_o will_v that_o man_n shall_v do_v unto_o you_o that_o do_v you_o unto_o they_o 2._o they_o say_v it_o be_v destructive_a to_o the_o 3._o kingdom_n near_a conjunction_n and_o uniformity_n in_o religion_n and_o government_n i_o answer_v that_o the_o same_o toleration_n may_v be_v allow_v in_o the_o 3._o kingdom_n together_o with_o the_o same_o religion_n and_o government_n whether_o it_o shall_v be_v presbyterian_a or_o independent_a or_o anabaptistical_a beside_o that_o i_o suppose_v which_o be_v principal_o intend_v by_o this_o part_n of_o the_o covenant_n it_o be_v the_o union_n of_o the_o 3._o kingdom_n and_o make_v they_o each_o desensive_a and_o helpful_a to_o the_o other_o which_o a_o toleration_n will_v be_v a_o mean_n to_o further_a because_o of_o the_o encouragement_n that_o every_o man_n will_v have_v to_o maintain_v his_o so_o excellent_a freedom_n which_o he_o can_v better_o do_v then_o by_o maintain_v they_o ●ll_n because_o of_o the_o independency_n they_o will_v have_v one_o upon_o the_o other_o 3._o it_o be_v express_o contrary_a to_o the_o extirpation_n of_o schism_n and_o whatsoever_o shall_v be_v find_v contrary_a to_o sound_v doctrine_n and_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n i_o answer_v that_o when_o it_o be_v certain_o determine_v by_o judge_n that_o can_v err_v who_o be_v the_o schismatic_n there_o may_v be_v some_o seem_a pretence_n to_o extirpate_v they_o though_o then_o also_o no_o power_n or_o force_n be_v to_o be_v use_v but_o lawful_a mean_n only_o as_o the_o wise_a man_n have_v interpret_v it_o that_o be_v schism_n and_o heresy_n when_o they_o appear_v to_o be_v such_o be_v to_o be_v root_v out_o by_o reason_n and_o debate_n the_o sword_n of_o the_o spirit_n not_o of_o the_o flesh_n argument_n not_o blow_n unto_o which_o man_n betake_v themselves_o upon_o distrust_n of_o their_o own_o foundation_n and_o consciousness_n of_o their_o own_o inability_n beside_o as_o the_o presbyter_n judge_v other_o to_o be_v a_o schism_n from_o they_o so_o other_o judge_v they_o to_o be_v a_o schism_n from_o the_o truth_n in_o which_o sense_n only_o the_o covenant_n can_v be_v take_v 4._o hereby_o we_o shall_v be_v involve_v in_o the_o guilt_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n and_o thereby_o be_v endanger_v to_o receive_v of_o their_o plague_n i_o answer_v that_o compulsion_n must_v necessary_o occasion_v both_o much_o cruelty_n and_o much_o hypocrisy_n whereof_o the_o divine_n labour_v so_o much_o for_o the_o cause_n which_o be_v persecution_n can_v be_v guiltless_a 5._o it_o seem_v utter_o impossible_a if_o such_o a_o toleration_n shall_v be_v grant_v that_o the_o lord_n shall_v be_v one_o and_o his_o name_n one_o in_o the_o 3._o kingdom_n i_o suppose_v they_o mean_v by_o that_o phrase_n it_o be_v impossible_a that_o our_o judgement_n and_o profession_n shall_v be_v one_o so_o i_o believe_v it_o be_v whether_o there_o be_v a_o toleration_n or_o no_o but_o certain_o the_o likely_a way_n if_o there_o be_v any_o thereunto_o be_v by_o find_v out_o one_o truth_n which_o most_o probable_o will_v be_v by_o give_v libetty_a to_o every_o man_n to_o speak_v his_o mind_n and_o produce_v his_o reason_n and_o argument_n and_o not_o by_o hear_v one_o sect_n only_o that_o if_o it_o do_v produce_v a_o force_a unity_n it_o may_v be_v more_o probable_o in_o error_n then_o in_o truth_n the_o minister_n be_v not_o so_o likely_a to_o deal_v clear_o in_o the_o search_n thereof_o because_o of_o their_o interest_n be_v the_o laity_n who_o live_v not_o thereupon_o but_o inquire_v for_o truth_n for_o truth_n sake_n and_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o their_o own_o mind_n and_o thus_o i_o have_v do_v with_o the_o argumentive_a part_n of_o the_o letter_n i_o shall_v only_o desire_v that_o what_o i_o have_v say_v may_v be_v without_o prejudice_n consider_v and_o that_o the_o people_n will_v look_v upon_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n and_o writing_n as_o they_o be_v in_o themselves_o and_o not_o as_o they_o be_v represent_v by_o other_o or_o forestall_v by_o a_o deceitful_a rumour_n or_o opinion_n in_o this_o controversy_n concerning_o toleration_n i_o make_v no_o question_n but_o the_o parliament_n will_v judge_v just_o between_o the_o two_o party_n who_o have_v both_o the_o great_a opportunity_n and_o ability_n to_o discern_v between_o the_o integrity_n of_o the_o one_o side_n and_o the_o interest_n of_o the_o other_o that_o the_o one_o party_n plead_v for_o toleration_n for_o the_o comfort_n and_o tranquillity_n of_o their_o life_n and_o the_o peaceable_a serve_n of_o god_n according_a to_o their_o conscience_n in_o which_o they_o desire_v no_o man_n disturbance_n that_o the_o other_o that_o plead_v against_o it_o may_v i_o will_v i_o can_v say_v only_o probable_o be_v sway_v by_o interest_n and_o self-respect_n their_o mean_n and_o pre-eminence_n i_o make_v no_o question_n but_o the_o parliament_n before_o they_o proceed_v to_o a_o determination_n of_o matter_n concerning_o religion_n will_v as_o they_o have_v hear_v one_o party_n the_o divine_n so_o likewise_o reserve_v one_o ear_n for_o all_o other_o sort_n of_o man_n know_v that_o they_o that_o give_v sentence_n all_o party_n be_v not_o hear_v though_o the_o sentence_n be_v just_a which_o then_o likely_a will_v not_o be_v yet_o they_o be_v unjust_a beside_o the_o parliament_n themselves_o be_v much_o concern_v in_o this_o controvers●e_n since_o upon_o their_o dissolution_n they_o must_v mix_v with_o the_o people_n and_o then_o either_o enjoy_v the_o sweet_n of_o freedom_n or_o suffer_v under_o the_o most_o irksome_a yoke_n of_o priestly_a bondage_n and_o therefore_o since_o they_o be_v concern_v in_o a_o double_a respect_n first_o as_o choose_v by_o the_o people_n to_o provide_v for_o their_o safety_n and_o freedom_n whereof_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n be_v the_o principal_a branch_n and_o so_o engage_v by_o duty_n second_o as_o member_n of_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o so_o oblige_v to_o establish_v freedom_n out_o of_o love_n to_o themselves_o and_o their_o posterity_n i_o shall_v only_o add_v one_o word_n more_o concerning_o this_o letter_n which_o be_v this_o that_o it_o be_v worth_a the_o observation_n that_o the_o same_o man_n be_v part_n of_o the_o contriver_n of_o it_o and_o part_n of_o those_o to_o who_o it_o be_v send_v mr._n walker_n be_v president_n of_o zion_n college_n mr._n seaman_n one_o of_o the_o dean_n observe_v that_o word_n and_o mr._n roborough_n one_o of_o the_o assistant_n all_o three_o member_n of_o the_o synod_n who_o with_o the_o rest_n frame_v it_o seasonable_o and_o purposely_o to_o meet_v with_o the_o letter_n from_o scotland_n concerning_o church_n government_n may_n w●ll_v remove_v the_o wonder_n and_o admiration_n that_o seem_v to_o possess_v one_o of_o the_o scotch_a grand_a divine_n in_o the_o synod_n at_o the_o concurrence_n of_o providence_n in_o these_o two_o letter_n of_o the_o politic_a and_o confederate_v order_v whereof_o he_o can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a finis_fw-la

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needs_o do_v if_o they_o shall_v communicate_v in_o that_o church_n society_n their_o mind_n can_v approve_v of_o the_o question_n have_v be_v well_o put_v if_o you_o have_v say_v by_o reason_n of_o different_a light_n and_o different_a sight_n there_o may_v be_v dissent_v in_o opinion_n yet_o why_o shall_v our_o heart_n be_v divide_v one_o from_o another_o why_o shall_v our_o love_n from_o hence_o and_o our_o affection_n grow_v cold_a and_o dead_a one_o towards_o another_o why_o shall_v we_o not_o peaceable_o bear_v one_o with_o another_o till_o our_o sight_n grow_v better_a and_o our_o light_a increase_n these_o will_v have_v be_v question_n i_o think_v that_o will_v have_v puzzle_v a_o true_o conscientious_a man_n to_o have_v find_v a_o answer_n for_o that_o which_o next_o follow_v to_o wit_n the_o church_n coat_n may_v be_v of_o divers_a colour_n yet_o why_o shall_v there_o be_v any_o rent_n in_o it_o be_v but_o a_o old_a jing_n of_o the_o bishop_n speak_v by_o they_o former_o in_o reference_n to_o the_o presbyter_n and_o now_o mention_v to_o make_v that_o which_o go_v before_o which_o have_v no_o weight_n in_o itself_o to_o sound_v the_o better_a letter_n have_v we_o not_o a_o touchstone_n of_o truth_n the_o good_a word_n of_o god_n and_o when_o all_o thing_n be_v examine_v by_o the_o word_n then_o that_o which_o be_v best_a may_v be_v hold_v fast_o but_o first_o they_o must_v be_v know_v and_o then_o examine_v afterward_o i_o shall_v easy_o concur_v with_o they_o thus_o far_o that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v the_o touchstone_n that_o all_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v examine_v by_o that_o and_o that_o the_o best_a be_v to_o be_v hold_v fast_o but_o now_o who_o shall_v be_v the_o examiner_n must_v needs_o be_v the_o question_n if_o the_o presbyter_n examine_v the_o independent_a and_o separation_n they_o be_v like_a to_o find_v the_o same_o censure_n the_o presbyter_n have_v already_o find_v be_v examine_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o bishop_n find_v from_o the_o pope_n adversary_n certain_o be_v not_o competent_a judge_n aga_o in_o in_o matter_n disputable_a and_o controvert_v every_o man_n must_v examine_v for_o himself_o and_o so_o every_o man_n do_v or_o else_o he_o must_v be_v conscious_a to_o himself_o that_o he_o see_v with_o other_o man_n eye_n and_o have_v take_v up_o a_o opinion_n not_o because_o it_o consent_v with_o his_o understanding_n but_o for_o that_o it_o be_v the_o safe_a and_o least_o troublesome_a as_o the_o world_n go_v or_o because_o such_o a_o man_n be_v of_o that_o opinion_n who_o he_o reverence_v and_o veri●y_o believe_v will_v not_o have_v be_v so_o have_v it_o not_o be_v truth_n i_o may_v be_v help_v in_o my_o examination_n by_o other_o man_n but_o no_o man_n o●_z sort_n of_o man_n be_v to_o examine_v for_o i_o insomuch_o that_o before_o a_o opinion_n can_v proper_o be_v say_v to_o be_v i_o it_o must_v concord_n with_o my_o understanding_n now_o here_o be_v the_o fallacy_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v it_o in_o all_o papist_n bishop_n presbyter_n or_o whatsoever_o other_o sort_n of_o man_n have_v or_o will_v have_v in_o their_o hand_n the_o power_n of_o persecute_v that_o they_o always_o suppose_v themselves_o to_o be_v competent_a examiner_n and_o judge_n of_o other_o man_n differ_v in_o judgement_n from_o they_o a●d_fw-mi upon_o this_o weak_a supposition_n by_o no_o mean_n to_o be_v allow_v most_o of_o the_o reason_n and_o argument_n of_o the_o man_n forementioned_a be_v support_v they_o proceed_v to_o charge_n much_o upon_o the_o indepe●dents_n for_o not_o produce_v their_o model_n of_o church-government_n for_o answer_v hereunto_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o the_o reason_n print_v by_o the_o independent_n and_o give_v into_o the_o house_n in_o their_o own_o justification_n which_o the_o minister_n may_v have_v take_v notice_n of_o i_o proceed_v to_o the_o suppose_a reason_n urge_v by_o the_o minister_n against_o

the_o toleration_n of_o independency_n in_o the_o church_n letter_n 1._o be_v because_o the_o desire_n and_o endeavour_n of_o independent_n for_o a_o toleration_n be_v at_o this_o time_n extreme_o unseasonable_a and_o pray_v properous_a for_o 1._o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n be_v not_o yet_o perfect_v and_o settle_v among_o we_o according_a to_o our_o covenant_n and_o why_o may_v not_o the_o reformation_n be_v raise_v up_o at_o last_o to_o such_o purity_n and_o perfection_n that_o true_o tender_a conscience_n may_v receive_v abundant_a satisfaction_n for_o aught_o that_o yet_o appear_v i_o will_v to_o god_n the_o people_n their_o own_o friend_n especial_o will_v but_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o fallacy_n of_o the_o reason_n they_o will_v have_v reformation_n perfect_v according_a to_o the_o covenant_n before_o the_o independent_n move_v to_o be_v tolerate_v now_o reformation_n be_v not_o perfect_v according_a to_o the_o covenant_n till_o schism_n and_o heresy_n be_v extirpate_v which_o in_o the_o sequel_n of_o this_o letter_n they_o judge_v independency_n tobe_n that_o their_o charity_n think_v it_o then_o most_o seasonable_a to_o move_v that_o independency_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v after_o it_o be_v extirpate_v their_o reason_n and_o affection_n in_o this_o be_v alike_o sound_a to_o the_o independent_n their_o drift_n in_o this_o indeed_o be_v but_o too_o evident_a they_o will_v have_v the_o independent_n silent_a till_o they_o get_v power_n in_o their_o hand_n and_o then_o let_v they_o talk_v if_o they_o dare_v certain_o the_o most_o seasonable_a time_n to_o move_v for_o toleration_n be_v while_o the_o parliament_n be_v in_o debate_n about_o church_n government_n since_o if_o stay_v be_v make_v till_o a_o church_n government_n be_v settle_v all_o motion_n that_o may_v but_o seem_v to_o derogate_v from_o that_o how_o just_a soever_o in_o themselves_o how_o good_a soever_o for_o the_o commonwealth_n must_v needs_o be_v hardly_o obtain_v and_o whereas_o they_o say_v why_o may_v not_o reformation_n be_v raise_v up_o at_o last_o to_o such_o pretty_a and_o perfection_n that_o true_o tender_a conscience_n may_v receive_v abundant_a satisfaction_n for_o aught_o that_o yet_o appear_v observe_v 1._o that_o these_o very_a minister_n in_o the_o sequel_n of_o their_o letter_n impute_v it_o as_o levity_n in_o the_o independent_n that_o they_o be_v not_o at_o a_o stay_n but_o in_o expectation_n of_o new_a light_n and_o reserve_v as_o they_o say_v so_o that_o a_o man_n will_v thinkf_o they_o themselves_o be_v at_o a_o certainty_n but_o it_o be_v no_o new_a thing_n for_o one_o sort_n of_o man_n to_o object_v that_o as_o a_o crime_n against_o other_o which_o they_o be_v guilty_a of_o themselves_o though_o indeed_o but_o that_o the_o presbyter_n use_v any_o weapon_n against_o the_o independent_n it_o be_v no_o crime_n at_o all_o yea_o it_o be_v excellency_n in_o any_o man_n or_o woman_n not_o to_o be_v pertinacio●s_n or_o obstinate_a in_o any_o opinion_n but_o to_o have_v a_o open_a ear_n for_o reason_n and_o argument_n against_o whatsoever_o he_o hold_v and_o to_o embrace_v or_o reject_v whatsoever_o upon_o further_a search_n he_o find_v to_o be_v agreeable_a to_o or_o dissonant_n from_o god_n holy_a word_n it_o do_v appear_v from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o presbyter_n and_o from_o this_o letter_n and_o other_o petition_n express_o against_o toleration_n that_o unless_o the_o independent_n and_o separation_n will_v submit_v their_o judgement_n to_o they_o they_o shall_v never_o be_v tolerate_v if_o they_o can_v hinder_v it_o their_o 2._o reason_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o know_v what_o the_o government_n of_o the_o independent_a be_v neither_o will_v they_o ever_o let_v the_o world_n know_v what_o they_o hold_v in_o that_o point_n though_o some_o of_o their_o party_n have_v be_v too_o forward_o to_o challenge_v the_o london_n petitioner_n as_o lead_v with_o blind_a obedience_n and_o pin_v their_o soul_n upon_o their_o priest_n sleeve_n for_o desire_v a_o establishment_n of_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n before_o there_o be_v any_o model_n of_o it_o extant_a their_o 3d._o reason_n be_v much_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o the_o minister_n know_v that_o the_o independent_a government_n for_o the_o general_n be_v resolve_v upon_o by_o the_o independent_n though_o they_o have_v not_o yet_o modelize_v every_o particular_a which_o be_v a_o work_n of_o time_n as_o the_o frame_n of_o the_o pres●●terian_a government_n be_v the_o independent_n however_o have_v divers_a reason_n for_o dissent_v from_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n which_o they_o have_v give_v in_o already_o and_o though_o they_o have_v not_o conclude_v every_o particular_a of_o their_o own_o but_o be_v still_o upon_o the_o search_n and_o enquiry_n yet_o it_o be_v seasonable_a however_o to_o move_v for_o toleration_n for_o that_o the_o ground_n of_o move_v be_v not_o because_o they_o be_v independent_n but_o because_o every_o man_n ought_v to_o be_v free_a in_o the_o worship_n and_o service_n of_o god_n compulsion_n be_v the_o way_n to_o increase_v not_o the_o number_n of_o convert_v but_o of_o hypocrite_n whereas_o it_o be_v another_o case_n for_o people_n to_o move_v for_o establish_v of_o a_o government_n they_o understand_v not_o have_v never_o see_v it_o as_o the_o london_n petitioner_n do_v that_o be_v most_o evident_o a_o give_n up_o of_o the_o understanding_n to_o other_o man_n sure_o the_o presbyter_n themselves_o can_v think_v it_o otherwise_o nor_o yet_o the_o people_n upon_o the_o least_o consideration_n of_o it_o beside_o the_o london_n petitioner_n do_v not_o only_o desire_v as_o here_o the_o minister_n cunning_o say_v a_o establishment_n of_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n but_o a_o establishment_n of_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n a_o model_n whereof_o the_o reverend_a assembly_n of_o divine_n have_v frame_v which_o they_o never_o see_v so_o that_o herein_o the_o people_n be_v abuse_v by_o the_o divine_n by_o be_v put_v upon_o a_o petition_n wherein_o they_o suppose_v that_o government_n which_o they_o never_o see_v to_o be_v christ_n government_n if_o this_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o discover_v to_o our_o presbyterian_a lay-brethren_n the_o divine_n confidence_n of_o their_o abilitity_n to_o work_v they_o by_o the_o smoothness_n of_o phrase_n and_o language_n to_o what_o they_o please_v and_o of_o their_o own_o easiness_n and_o flexibility_n to_o be_v so_o lead_v i_o know_v not_o what_o be_v 2._o the_o minister_n urge_v that_o the_o desire_n and_o endeavour_n of_o the_o independ●nts_n for_o toleration_n be_v unreasonable_a and_o unequal_a in_o divers_a regard_n 1._o partly_o because_o no_o such_o toleration_n have_v heitherto_o be_v establish_v sofar_o as_o we_o know_v in_o any_o christian_a state_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n but_o that_o the_o minister_n have_v be_v use_v to_o speak_v what_o they_o please_v for_o ●_z reason_n in_o their_o pulpit_n without_o contradiction_n they_o will_v never_o sure_a have_v let_v so_o slight_a a_o one_o as_o this_o have_v past_a from_o they_o it_o seem_v by_o this_o reason_n that_o if_o in_o any_o christian_a state_n a_o toleration_n by_o the_o magistrate_n have_v be_v allow_v it_o will_v not_o have_v be_v unreasonable_a for_o our_o state_n to_o allow_v it_o the_o practice_n of_o state_n be_v here_o suppose_v to_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o what_o be_v reasonable_a whereas_o i_o have_v think_v that_o the_o practice_n of_o christian_a state_n be_v to_o be_v judge_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o reason_n and_o god_n word_n and_o not_o reason_n by_o they_o that_o which_o be_v just_a and_o reasonable_a be_v constant_a and_o perpetual_o so_o the_o practice_n of_o state_n though_o christian_n be_v variable_a we_o see_v different_a one_o from_o another_o and_o change_v according_a to_o the_o prevalency_n of_o particular_a party_n and_o therefore_o a_o most_o uncertain_a rule_n of_o what_o be_v reasonable_a beside_o the_o state_n of_o holland_n do_v tolerate_v and_o therefore_o the_o minister_n argument_n even_o in_o that_o part_n where_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v most_o strong_a for_o they_o make_v against_o they_o again_o if_o the_o practice_n of_o a_o christian_a state_n be_v a_o sufficien●_n argument_n of_o the_o reasonableness_n of_o a_o toleration_n our_o state_n may_v just_o tolerate_v because_o christian_a and_o because_o they_o be_v free_a to_o do_v what_o ever_o any_o other_o state_n may_v former_o have_v do_v but_o i_o stay_v too_o long_o upon_o so_o weak_a a_o argument_n 2._o partly_o because_o some_o of_o they_o have_v solemn_o profess_v that_o they_o can_v suffer_v presbitary_a and_o answerable_a hereunto_o be_v their_o practice_n in_o those_o place_n where_o independency_n prevail_v it_o be_v unreasonable_a it_o seem_v to_o tolerate_v independent_n because_o independent_n will_v not_o if_o they_o have_v the_o power_n suffer_v presbyter_n a_o very_o christianly_o argument_n and_o take_v out_o of_o the_o 5._o of_o