Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	answer_v	faith_n	scripture_n	3,797	5	5.7743	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78433	A sober ansvver, to a serious question. Propounded by Mr. G. Firmin minister of the church in Shalford in Essex. viz. Whether the ministers of England are bound, by the Word of God, to baptise the children of all such parents, which say, they believe in Jesus Christ: but are grosly ignorant, scandalous in their conversation, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church-discipline, the negative is not sufficiently defended. Which may serve also as an appendix to the diatribe with Mr. Hooker, lately published, concerning the baptisme of infants, of parents not confœderate. By Daniel Cavvdrey pastour of the church at Great Billing in Northampton-shire. Licensed, printed, and entred, according to order.	Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664.	1652 (1652)	Wing C1636; Thomason E683_23; ESTC R206820	21,614	39

so_o long_o as_o wicked_a person_n continue_v member_n and_o the_o church_n let_v they_o alone_o they_o may_v challenge_v baptism_n which_o one_o sentence_n confute_v as_o it_o contradict_v both_o his_o question_n and_o practice_n in_o his_o refusal_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o such_o and_o at_o once_o give_v we_o a_o answer_n to_o all_o his_o argument_n follow_v but_o we_o shall_v further_o consider_v what_o he_o say_v to_o show_v his_o mistake_n and_o give_v he_o full_a satisfaction_n the_o next_o undertake_n be_v to_o prove_v that_o such_o as_o in_o the_o question_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v member_n first_o thus_o member_n be_v visible_a saint_n but_o such_o be_v not_o visible_a saint_n ergo_fw-la 1._o we_o must_v distinguish_v between_o a_o first_o admission_n into_o a_o church_n and_o continuance_n in_o a_o church_n by_o such_o as_o be_v bear_v of_o member_n of_o a_o church_n such_o if_o now_o to_o be_v admit_v in_o their_o own_o person_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v member_n nor_o aught_o to_o be_v admit_v but_o if_o child_n of_o member_n prove_v ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a they_o be_v to_o be_v continue_v and_o account_v member_n till_o they_o be_v legal_o convict_v and_o cast_v out_o we_o grant_v such_o a_o one_o be_v not_o qualify_v sufficient_o to_o make_v a_o member_n nor_o aught_o to_o be_v continue_v continue_v such_o but_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o reform_v he_o or_o eject_v he_o which_o be_v partly_o his_o own_o word_n but_o then_o while_o the_o church_n be_v in_o reform_v he_o he_o be_v a_o member_n and_o consequent_o have_v right_a to_o give_v his_o child_n baptism_n he_o shall_v have_v prove_v with_o respect_n to_o the_o first_o and_o main_a question_n that_o such_o be_v not_o member_n during_o the_o church_n toleration_n of_o they_o and_o then_o infer_v their_o child_n have_v no_o right_n because_o child_n of_o non-member_n 2._o church-member_n and_o visible_a saint_n be_v take_v in_o scripture_n sometime_o improper_o even_o such_o as_o in_o the_o question_n ignorant_a scandalous_a etc._n etc._n be_v salute_v with_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o saint_n 1_o cor._n 1._o etc._n etc._n and_o call_v brethren_n 1_o cor._n 5.11_o 2_o thess_n 3.14,15_o now_o brethren_n and_o member_n be_v equivalent_a term_n if_o they_o be_v account_v brethren_n they_o may_v be_v account_v member_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n as_o he_o confess_v pag._n 41._o 3._o when_o we_o say_v a_o profession_n of_o the_o faith_n be_v sufficient_a to_o qualify_v a_o man_n to_o be_v make_v or_o continue_v a_o member_n we_o do_v not_o mean_v a_o bare_a profession_n with_o his_o mouth_n that_o he_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n though_o visible_o he_o live_v like_o a_o infidel_n but_o thus_o at_o least_o when_o nothing_o in_o his_o life_n appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a 43._o contrary_a conversatinot_n scandalous_a he_o seem_v to_o require_v no_o more_o pag._n 43._o though_o there_o be_v yet_o no_o great_a positive_a sign_n of_o his_o holiness_n thus_o we_o think_v the_o eunuch_n at_o least_o simon_n magus_n be_v admit_v this_o indeed_o be_v sufficient_a for_o admission_n but_o as_o there_o must_v be_v more_o to_o continue_v such_o in_o the_o church_n so_o there_o must_v be_v something_o positive_a of_o obstinacy_n in_o ignorance_n or_o gross_a wickedness_n in_o life_n to_o cast_v out_o again_o the_o church_n can_v upon_o the_o negative_a if_o once_o admit_v cast_v they_o out_o nay_o nor_o upon_o positive_a appearance_n but_o after_o legal_a proceed_n with_o they_o therefore_o so_o long_o they_o be_v to_o be_v account_v member_n etc._n etc._n upon_o this_o ground_n his_o second_o argument_n pag._n 14._o fall_n also_o if_o say_v he_o a_o bare_a profession_n be_v sufficient_a than_o none_o can_v be_v cast_v out_o for_o the_o vile_a sin_n heresy_n etc._n etc._n because_o he_o be_v the_o same_o now_o as_o when_o he_o be_v admit_v the_o consequence_n be_v unsound_a and_o proof_n like_o it_o for_o when_o he_o be_v first_o admit_v upon_o his_o profession_n no_o such_o scandal_n appear_v but_o now_o it_o do_v therefore_o he_o be_v not_o the_o same_o that_o he_o be_v when_o admit_v the_o three_o argument_n be_v like_o the_o former_a very_o weak_a a_fw-la rebel_n oppose_v christ_n in_o his_o visible_a kingdom_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o because_o no_o subject_n i_o answer_v he_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v admit_v if_o no_o member_n before_o but_o fit_a to_o be_v continue_v till_o trial_n of_o reformation_n be_v past_a and_o this_o himself_n confess_v after_o pag._n 17._o of_o which_o hereafter_o a_o rebel_n be_v a_o subject_a though_o not_o a_o honest_a subject_n till_o reform_v or_o outlaw_v or_o cut_v off_o and_o we_o desire_v to_o see_v the_o place_n in_o scripture_n where_o those_o who_o be_v within_o the_o outward_a covenant_n be_v present_o discovenanted_n if_o they_o walk_v contrary_a to_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o covenant_n object_n all_o be_v not_o convince_v that_o church-discipline_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n answ_n i_o speak_v say_v he_o of_o such_o as_o have_v be_v convince_v and_o acknowledge_v it_o from_o matth._n 18.15_o but_o yet_o will_v not_o submit_v to_o it_o reply_n then_o say_v we_o a_o man_n not_o convince_v of_o it_o may_v be_v a_o member_n though_o he_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o discipline_n if_o out_o of_o ignorance_n only_o of_o this_o particular_a but_o this_o qualification_n be_v not_o in_o his_o question_n but_o general_o if_o he_o refuse_v to_o subject_v to_o church-discipline_n to_o all_o his_o authority_n ancient_a and_o modern_a pag._n 15._o etc._n etc._n that_o more_o than_o a_o bare_a profession_n be_v require_v to_o make_v a_o member_n we_o assent_n but_o still_o with_o our_o distinction_n that_o more_o be_v require_v to_o the_o first_o admission_n than_o to_o the_o continuance_n of_o one_o bear_v a_o member_n in_o the_o church_n and_o this_o lead_v we_o to_o that_o consideration_n of_o a_o church_n to_o be_v now_o constitute_v &_o one_o already_o constitute_v p._n 17._o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o now_o in_o constitute_v but_o a_o succession_n for_o many_o year_n to_o this_o he_o say_v that_o which_o constitute_v a_o church_n continue_v it_o a_o church_n if_o then_o a_o bare_a profession_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o member_n nor_o be_v it_o enough_o to_o continue_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n we_o answer_v both_o proposition_n be_v faulty_a the_o minor_a for_o we_o have_v prove_v that_o a_o profession_n of_o faith_n nothing_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a will_v constitute_v a_o member_n and_o so_o a_o church_n of_o many_o member_n though_o all_o hypocrite_n the_o major_n because_o more_o be_v require_v to_o a_o first_o admission_n than_o to_o continuance_n in_o the_o church_n as_o be_v evident_a in_o man_n of_o year_n convert_v from_o infidel_n a_o personal_a profession_n of_o faith_n be_v necessary_a to_o such_o but_o their_o child_n be_v admit_v and_o continue_v without_o it_o by_o their_o birth_n privilege_n etc._n etc._n till_o they_o give_v evidence_n of_o their_o ignorance_n or_o scandal_n and_o be_v orderly_o proceed_v with_o for_o their_o reformation_n and_o this_o be_v his_o own_o resolution_n and_o remedy_n to_o reform_v they_o without_o a_o new_a constitution_n for_o so_o he_o say_v let_v churches_n be_v constitute_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n and_o so_o continue_v or_o mark_v it_o exercise_v discipline_n and_o reduce_v they_o to_o their_o first_o constitution_n this_o make_v it_o clear_a that_o there_o be_v another_o way_n to_o reform_v a_o constitute_v but_o corrupt_a church_n than_o first_o to_o constitute_v a_o church_n viz._n discipline_n but_o then_o i_o will_v object_v 1._o how_o can_v we_o exercise_v discipline_n i_o say_v not_o where_o no_o government_n be_v settle_v but_o when_o the_o party_n refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o discipline_n as_o not_o convince_v of_o the_o divine_a authority_n of_o it_o 2._o will_v he_o have_v man_n ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a or_o refuser_n of_o discipline_n sudden_o eject_v not_o so_o he_o say_v not_o that_o i_o mean_v we_o fall_v present_o upon_o excommunication_n before_o we_o have_v try_v other_o mean_n and_o patient_o wait_v well_o than_o the_o person_n be_v yet_o a_o member_n and_o the_o church_n a_o church_n in_o be_v or_o constitute_v else_o no_o discipline_n can_v be_v exercise_v by_o it_o though_o corrupt_v then_o have_v those_o member_n under_o cure_n right_a to_o all_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o and_o so_o the_o church_n need_v no_o new_a constitution_n but_o if_o his_o argue_v be_v good_a our_o church_n be_v no_o true_a church_n our_o member_n no_o true_a member_n for_o the_o great_a part_n have_v no_o right_a to_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o or_o they_o why_o else_o be_v they_o debar_v from_o both_o sacrament_n and_o

2._o p._n 104_o &_o 109._o etc._n etc._n but_o if_o people_n will_v be_v perverse_a and_o obstinate_a at_o their_o peril_n be_v it_o they_o can_v as_o easy_o cast_v off_o the_o cord_n of_o his_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n as_o samson_n do_v his_o wythe_n yet_o pag._n 17._o he_o say_v how_o can_v this_o discipline_n be_v exercise_v without_o a_o free_a consent_n unto_o it_o be_v this_o church-relation_n be_v not_o natural_a as_o father_n and_o child_n but_o free_a when_o to_o my_o apprehension_n he_o require_v a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n to_o make_v or_o admit_v a_o member_n as_o independent_o do_v the_o truth_n be_v as_o i_o conceive_v that_o relation_n of_o christian_n one_o to_o another_o be_v not_o free_a but_o after_o a_o sort_n natural_a and_o flow_v as_o natural_a from_o the_o covenant_n of_o christianity_n or_o regeneration_n as_o that_o of_o father_n and_o child_n brother_n and_o brother_n from_o generation_n as_o be_v more_o full_o discourse_v and_o clear_v in_o the_o tract_n aforesaid_a etc._n ibid_fw-la pag._n 125._o 126._o etc._n etc._n i_o shall_v not_o trouble_v his_o epistle_n any_o further_a but_o make_v bold_a to_o make_v some_o animadversion_n upon_o his_o book_n which_o may_v serve_v as_o a_o appendix_n to_o the_o diatribe_n there_o express_v there_o be_v late_o print_v for_o christopher_n meredith_n at_o the_o crane_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n these_o book_n master_n elton_n on_o the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o lord_n prayer_n former_o burn_v by_o the_o bishop_n doctor_n don_n late_a dean_n of_o paul_n sermon_n at_o the_o lady_n danvers_n funeral_n with_o verse_n of_o mr._n george_n herbert_n etc._n etc._n 12._o viccarsii_fw-la manuductio_fw-la ad_fw-la artem_fw-la rhetoricam_fw-la 12._o a_o letter_n of_o mr._n thomas_n shepherd_n late_a of_o new_a england_n send_v to_o r._n harlakenden_n of_o essex_n esquire_n remove_v four_o hindrance_n in_o god_n worship_n first_o how_o one_o may_v be_v rid_v of_o a_o earthly_a carnal_a heart_n sell_v to_o the_o contentment_n of_o the_o creature_n second_o of_o a_o proud_a heart_n which_o be_v unwilling_a to_o seek_v after_o to_o wait_v upon_o or_o to_o stoop_v unto_o the_o command_v of_o god_n three_o of_o a_o self-seeking_a heart_n that_o eye_n itself_o especial_o in_o the_o best_a duty_n four_o of_o a_o slighty_a heart_n of_o god_n hand_n in_o mercy_n and_o judgement_n the_o state_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v god_n cordial_a to_o comfort_v the_o saint_n remain_v alive_a a_o sermon_n preach_v at_o the_o funeral_n of_o mistress_n smithee_n harlakenden_n wife_n of_o william_n harlakenden_n esquire_n by_o r._n josselin_n the_o christian_a centurion_n observation_n advice_n and_o resolution_n concern_v matter_n divine_a and_o moral_a by_o philip_n skippon_n serjeant_n major_a general_n etc._n etc._n also_o two_o other_o book_n former_o publish_v by_o the_o same_o author_n viz._n first_o a_o collection_n of_o promise_n second_o a_o true_a treasure_n or_o thirty_o holy_a vow_n etc._n etc._n a_o learned_a and_o full_a answer_n to_o a_o treatise_n entitle_v the_o vanity_n of_o childish_a baptism_n etc._n etc._n by_o william_n cook_n minister_n of_o moxall_n in_o warwickshire_n vindiciae_fw-la redemptionis_fw-la in_o the_o fannings_n and_o sift_n of_o samuel_n oat_n his_o exposition_n upon_o matth._n 13.44_o by_o john_n stalham_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n at_o terling_n in_o essex_n the_o sum_n of_o a_o conference_n at_o terling_n in_o essex_n concernning_a infant_n baptism_n john_n gear_n reply_v to_o doctor_n boughen_n touch_v the_o coronation_n oath_n two_o book_n of_o his_o in_o defence_n of_o infant_n baptism_n in_o answer_n to_o mr._n tomb_n objection_n a_o sober_a answer_n to_o a_o serious_a question_n propound_v and_o publish_v by_o g._n f._n whether_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v bind_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o all_o such_o parent_n which_o say_v they_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n but_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n scoffer_n at_o godliness_n and_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n the_o negative_a be_v not_o sufficient_o defend_v before_o i_o fall_v upon_o the_o discourse_n itself_o i_o shall_v take_v leave_n a_o little_a to_o consider_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n and_o i_o desire_v to_o be_v satisfy_v by_o the_o reverend_a author_n whether_o he_o intend_v that_o all_o these_o qualification_n in_o his_o question_n must_v meet_v joint_o in_o one_o man_n or_o he_o mean_v it_o separately_z and_o single_o of_o any_o one_o of_o they_o as_o sufficient_a to_o debarr_v his_o child_n baptism_n if_o joint_o that_o all_o these_o must_v concur_v he_o will_v hardly_o or_o very_o rare_o find_v all_o these_o together_o in_o one_o man_n for_o a_o man_n may_v be_v gross_o ignorant_a and_o yet_o not_o of_o a_o scandalous_a conversation_n or_o very_o scandalous_a and_o yet_o very_o know_v or_o both_o those_o and_o yet_o not_o profess_a scorner_n of_o godliness_n or_o none_o of_o all_o those_o yet_o not_o be_v convince_v of_o the_o necessity_n of_o it_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church_n discipline_n if_o any_o one_o of_o these_o single_o will_v strip_v he_o of_o that_o privilege_n than_o the_o last_o alone_o will_v do_v it_o viz._n refusal_n to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n be_v a_o man_n never_o so_o know_v and_o godly_a in_o conversation_n and_o then_o i_o pray_v what_o differ_v he_o from_o the_o independent_o in_o their_o explicite_fw-la church-covenant_n this_o be_v the_o resolution_n of_o m._n hooker_n who_o our_o author_n follow_v in_o most_o of_o his_o discourse_n 11._o survey_v part_n 3_o p._n 11._o the_o pinch_n of_o the_o question_n lie_v here_o whether_o person_n non-confoederate_a and_o so_o in_o our_o sense_n not_o member_n of_o the_o church_n do_v entitle_v their_o child_n to_o the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n their_o parent_n though_o godly_a be_v yet_o unwilling_a to_o come_v into_o church-fellowship_n and_o he_o resolve_v it_o negative_o as_o our_o author_n do_v upon_o his_o ground_n partly_o and_o chief_o 3._o inconsi_v of_o independ_v way_n etc._n etc._n part_n 3._o but_o in_o that_o special_a sense_n the_o diatribe_n be_v ready_a to_o give_v he_o satisfaction_n as_o for_o the_o present_a question_n before_o we_o mr._n hooker_n reject_v it_o as_o out_o of_o question_n for_o thus_o he_o write_v ibid._n be_v not_o then_o the_o question_n whether_o wicked_a member_n while_o they_o be_v tolerate_v sinful_o in_o the_o church_n they_o and_o their_o child_n may_v partake_v of_o the_o privilege_n for_o this_o be_v beyond_o question_n nor_o do_v i_o know_v nor_o never_o hear_v it_o deny_v by_o any_o of_o o●rs_n have_v he_o live_v till_o this_o time_n he_o may_v have_v know_v and_o hear_v of_o some_o of_o we_o if_o not_o still_o they_o this_o question_n negative_o resolve_v and_o earnest_o though_o modest_o defend_v and_o to_o say_v the_o truth_n this_o question_n spring_v from_o he_o and_o seem_v a_o reasonable_a consequence_n thereof_o for_o if_o one_o refuse_v only_o to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n lose_v this_o privilege_n of_o ordinance_n for_o himself_o and_o he_o be_v he_o never_o so_o know_v and_o godly_a it_o seem_v very_o reasonable_a that_o such_o as_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a and_o scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n etc._n etc._n shall_v much_o more_o just_o be_v debar_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v these_o be_v church-member_n though_o sinful_o tolerate_v but_o so_o be_v not_o those_o that_o refuse_v to_o come_v into_o church-fellowship_n i_o answer_v 1._o these_o be_v church_n member_n also_o at_o least_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o more_o than_o professor_n only_o true_a believer_n and_o godly_a and_o therefore_o be_v we_o think_v unjust_o debar_v the_o privilege_n of_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o not_o be_v convince_v of_o the_o necessity_n of_o their_o church-government_n as_o be_v large_o discourse_v in_o the_o place_n aforesaid_a 2._o we_o may_v suppose_v easy_o that_o some_o that_o be_v from_o their_o infancy_n church-member_n yet_o grow_v up_o be_v scruple_v in_o the_o point_n of_o church-discipline_n and_o so_o not_o willing_a to_o submit_v to_o it_o these_o also_o be_v yet_o tolerate_v i_o say_v not_o sinful_o in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v debar_v the_o former_a privilege_n by_o his_o own_o principle_n 3._o our_o author_n that_o have_v start_v a_o new_a question_n out_o of_o question_n with_o mr._n hooker_n oftentimes_o profess_v as_o we_o shall_v hear_v anon_o that_o the_o worst_a of_o these_o tolerate_a sinful_o while_o tolerate_v have_v right_a to_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o and_o so_o the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n this_o principle_n answer_v and_o overthrow_v all_o his_o argument_n but_o because_o the_o former_a diatribe_n with_o mr._n hooker_n may_v receive_v light_a and_o strength_n from_o this_o contest_v i_o shall_v take_v into_o

second_o or_o three_o generation_n but_o only_o of_o the_o first_o which_o i_o believe_v he_o can_v do_v it_o may_v true_o be_v say_v though_o the_o immediate_a parent_n godly_a do_v give_v right_a to_o his_o child_n for_o baptism_n yet_o if_o that_o child_n grow_v up_o prove_v scandalous_a his_o parent_n godliness_n do_v not_o give_v he_o now_o right_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n because_o he_o himself_o put_v in_o a_o bar_n to_o keep_v he_o from_o the_o supper_n the_o reason_n be_v because_o more_o be_v require_v of_o he_o for_o the_o supper_n than_o for_o baptism_n but_o than_o say_v he_o if_o so_o why_o do_v not_o the_o scandalous_a life_n of_o the_o immediate_a parent_n put_v a_o bar_n between_o the_o child_n to_o be_v baptise_a and_o his_o predecessor_n the_o answer_n be_v the_o child_n must_v not_o suffer_v for_o the_o parent_n personal_a sin_n true_o say_v he_o for_o eternal_a punishment_n but_o we_o say_v not_o for_o temporal_a or_o spiritual_a punishment_n he_o reply_v not_o indeed_o when_o it_o be_v consider_v without_o relation_n to_o the_o parent_n which_o it_o can_v in_o this_o case_n and_o so_o may_v suffer_v by_o he_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v 1._o the_o jew_n child_n can_v no_o more_o be_v consider_v without_o relation_n to_o their_o parent_n than_o we_o yet_o the_o wickedness_n of_o a_o jew_n hinder_v not_o their_o circumcision_n 2._o we_o must_v distinguish_v between_o the_o general_a state_n or_o a_o parent_n and_o his_o personal_a wickedness_n if_o his_o state_n be_v that_o of_o a_o infidel_n the_o child_n suffer_v with_o he_o but_o if_o he_o be_v for_o state_n a_o christian_n the_o child_n be_v bear_v a_o christian_a and_o the_o parent_n personal_a sin_n be_v not_o impute_v to_o the_o child_n to_o hinder_v his_o baptism_n it_o have_v beside_o its_o relation_n to_o its_o parent_n a_o birth-priviledge_n as_o bear_v of_o christian_a predecessor_n and_o thereby_o may_v challenge_v the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n 3._o all_o this_o proceed_v upon_o his_o former_a supposition_n that_o there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o admit_v child_n to_o baptism_n but_o the_o parent_n and_o that_o the_o next_o and_o immediate_a parent_n which_o be_v large_o confute_v in_o the_o diatribe_n chap._n 2._o last_o all_o this_o discourse_n be_v destroy_v by_o what_o he_o often_o yield_v that_o a_o wicked_a parent_n tolerate_v may_v give_v right_a to_o a_o child_n baptism_n his_o case_n of_o one_o in_o corinth_n convert_v old_a have_v child_n infidel_n which_o have_v also_o child_n whether_o will_v a_o minister_n baptise_v the_o infant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o grandfather_n be_v not_o our_o ease_n where_o both_o father_n and_o grandfather_n be_v christian_n yet_o what_o minister_n that_o understand_v himself_o will_v scruple_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o a_o infidel_n parent_n suppose_v he_o either_o dead_a or_o resign_v his_o child_n up_o to_o the_o grandfather_n to_o be_v christian-like_a educate_v all_o that_o he_o say_v against_o it_o be_v but_o some_o accidental_a inconvenience_n that_o may_v follow_v as_o first_o the_o grandfather_n be_v old_a may_v die_v quick_o before_o the_o child_n grow_v up_o etc._n etc._n so_o may_v the_o father_n though_o a_o christian_a and_o never_o so_o godly_a yea_o both_o the_o parent_n who_o then_o shall_v take_v care_n for_o it_o again_o the_o infidel_n will_v not_o let_v his_o father_n baptise_v the_o child_n who_o have_v most_o right_o over_o the_o child_n the_o father_n or_o grandfather_n but_o suppose_v the_o infidel_n willing_a to_o give_v up_o his_o child_n to_o the_o grandfather_n what_o say_v he_o then_o that_o many_o thing_n may_v fall_v out_o to_o hinder_v the_o act_n of_o baptism_n of_o such_o a_o infant_n be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n the_o question_n be_v whether_o it_o can_v hinder_v its_o right_n if_o the_o grandfather_n also_o will_v undertake_v for_o it_o or_o some_o other_o friend_n what_o say_v he_o then_o if_o the_o mother_n be_v a_o christian_n though_o the_o father_n a_o infidel_n yet_o she_o can_v give_v a_o right_a to_o the_o child_n baptism_n this_o he_o confess_v pag._n 10._o but_o the_o father_n a_o infidel_n will_v not_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v baptise_a or_o if_o baptise_a will_v breed_v it_o up_o in_o his_o idolatry_n i_o ask_v as_o he_o who_o have_v most_o right_a over_o the_o child_n the_o father_n or_o the_o mother_n yet_o the_o child_n undeniable_o have_v right_o to_o baptism_n by_o the_o mother_n so_o then_o there_o may_v be_v a_o right_a to_o baptism_n where_o no_o power_n to_o act_v it_o 188._o see_v diatrib_n p._n 188._o so_o it_o may_v be_v in_o the_o grandfather_n for_o aught_o be_v yet_o say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o aquinas_n say_v in_o his_o 8._o pag._n child_n of_o infidel_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptise_a white_a they_o be_v under_o their_o care_n and_o power_n against_o their_o will_n but_o this_o seem_v to_o grant_v that_o if_o they_o be_v willing_o resign_v to_o the_o care_n and_o power_n of_o a_o christian_a undertaker_n they_o may_v be_v baptise_a and_o then_o the_o church_n do_v not_o act_n against_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n which_o be_v his_o fear_n and_o needless_a exception_n but_o he_o renew_v his_o plea_n then_o though_o there_o be_v none_o to_o educate_v this_o child_n for_o the_o ignorant_a profane_a parent_n will_v not_o but_o teach_v they_o how_o to_o break_v the_o covenant_n predecessor_n can_v they_o be_v dead_a yet_o we_o must_v seal_v to_o this_o child_n let_v the_o church_n take_v it_o and_o take_v care_n of_o it_o say_v we_o but_o say_v he_o where_o do_v you_o see_v church_n take_v care_n of_o such_o child_n etc._n etc._n we_o answer_v he_o need_v not_o go_v far_o to_o see_v this_o he_o may_v perhaps_o see_v it_o in_o his_o own_o parish_n our_o church_n or_o state_n have_v order_v very_o commendable_o and_o charitable_o that_o the_o child_n of_o very_a papist_n be_v take_v from_o they_o and_o breed_v up_o protestant_n yea_o every_o parish_n be_v order_v to_o take_v care_n of_o their_o own_o poor_a orphan_n if_o they_o can_v the_o state_n with_o the_o charity_n of_o good_a man_n have_v provide_v hospital_n and_o school_n for_o such_o child_n education_n we_o will_v put_v he_o a_o case_n suppose_v both_o the_o next_o parent_n be_v church-member_n die_v and_o leave_v infant_n have_v no_o know_v kindred_n in_o or_o near_o that_o place_n who_o shall_v take_v care_n of_o they_o we_o say_v the_o church_n whereof_o the_o parent_n be_v member_n for_o the_o child_n baptize_v be_v member_n of_o that_o church_n and_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o take_v care_n of_o they_o if_o the_o congregational_a church_n neglect_v this_o they_o come_v short_a of_o our_o parochial_a church_n though_o they_o pretend_v not_o only_o more_o piety_n but_o more_o charity_n also_o to_o their_o own_o member_n in_o a_o christian_a church_n or_o state_n there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o care_n of_o child_n of_o parent_n decease_v both_o in_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a respect_n and_o now_o we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o common_a objection_n 212._o see_v ubi_fw-la suprae_fw-la p._n 212._o where_o shall_v we_o stay_v how_o far_o may_v we_o go_v for_o this_o predecessor_n how_o many_o generation_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v full_o answer_v elsewhere_o we_o only_o once_o again_o desire_v he_o to_o prove_v by_o express_a scripture_n that_o the_o promise_n i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n extend_v not_o only_o to_o the_o next_o generation_n or_o to_o how_o many_o generation_n it_o be_v limit_v something_o he_o speak_v to_o this_o purpose_n pag._n 28._o we_o find_v many_o promise_n make_v to_o the_o posterity_n of_o godly_a parent_n gen._n 17.7_o etc._n etc._n now_o if_o the_o child_n of_o such_o parent_n grow_v up_o and_o though_o but_o young_a yet_o read_v they_o find_v such_o promise_n or_o hear_v of_o they_o it_o seem_v these_o poor_a child_n must_v not_o lay_v hold_n of_o the_o promise_n and_o claim_v it_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o parent_n and_o plead_v it_o with_o god_n etc._n etc._n for_o sure_a if_o god_n will_v not_o so_o much_o as_o give_v they_o a_o outward_a seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n the_o poor_a child_n can_v plead_v these_o promise_n which_o come_v by_o the_o parent_n thus_o he_o and_o well_o argue_v against_o the_o anabaptist_n do_v but_o but_o change_v the_o word_n parent_n into_o progenitor_n grandfather_n or_o grandmother_n and_o the_o plea_n be_v strong_a against_o himself_o lord_n i_o be_o sure_a my_o grandfather_n etc._n etc._n be_v a_o godly_a man_n my_o grandmother_n a_o godly_a woman_n thou_o have_v make_v many_o promise_n to_o the_o posterity_n of_o such_o not_o only_o to_o the_o next_o but_o as_o i_o think_v remote_a generation_n though_o my_o next_o parent_n be_v both_o wicked_a and_o

his_o reason_n be_v of_o no_o force_n for_o it_o shall_v thus_o proceed_v because_o beptisme_n belong_v both_o primary_o and_o only_o to_o the_o next_o parent_n which_o we_o have_v above_o deny_v and_o disprove_v in_o a_o word_n this_o argument_n hold_v only_o in_o respect_n to_o the_o person_n himself_o not_o to_o his_o child_n for_o certain_o the_o child_n that_o be_v baptise_a when_o a_o infant_n be_v the_o child_n of_o a_o member_n have_v right_o to_o baptism_n then_o though_o if_o when_o it_o grow_v up_o it_o prove_v ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a we_o may_v true_o say_v if_o he_o be_v now_o to_o be_v baptise_a he_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v baptise_a hence_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o the_o question_n will_v fall_v only_o upon_o such_o person_n when_o excommunicate_a which_o yet_o be_v no_o qualification_n express_v in_o his_o question_n for_o till_o they_o be_v eject_v they_o have_v right_a by_o his_o own_o confession_n for_o himself_o and_o they_o but_o of_o excommunicate_a person_n we_o have_v speak_v above_o the_o three_o argument_n be_v like_o the_o former_a such_o a_o parent_n be_v no_o disciple_n ergo_fw-la the_o child_n be_v none_o and_o then_o minister_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o baptize_v it_o by_o their_o commission_n we_o answer_v 1._o that_o commission_n be_v for_o the_o first_o gather_v of_o church_n not_o of_o church_n constitute_v 2._o we_o have_v prove_v above_o the_o child_n may_v be_v a_o member_n when_o the_o parent_n at_o present_a be_v none_o be_v excommunicate_v now_o a_o disciple_n and_o a_o member_n be_v all_o one_o 3._o such_o parent_n tolerate_v be_v member_n and_o so_o disciple_n ergo_fw-la the_o child_n be_v a_o disciple_n that_o then_o be_v not_o a_o sound_a assertion_n pag._n 20._o if_o i_o can_v give_v the_o child_n one_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n i_o will_v give_v the_o parent_n the_o other_o for_o i_o may_v see_v reason_n to_o deny_v the_o parent_n the_o lord_n supper_n and_o yet_o baptise_v his_o child_n because_o more_o be_v require_v of_o the_o one_o than_o of_o the_o other_o his_o four_o argument_n run_v thus_o to_o give_v the_o seal_n to_o the_o child_n of_o one_o visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o the_o devil_n be_v a_o profane_v of_o the_o ordinance_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o deny_v that_o every_o ignorant_a scandalous_a person_n and_o the_o rest_n in_o the_o question_n be_v visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o the_o devil_n especial_o if_o tolerate_v by_o the_o church_n for_o so_o long_o he_o be_v visible_o in_o the_o external_a covenant_n of_o the_o church_n 2._o suppose_v the_o person_n be_v excommunicate_a and_o so_o deliver_v unto_o satan_n as_o the_o incestuous_a person_n be_v yet_o it_o be_v hard_a to_o say_v he_o be_v visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o satan_n though_o at_o present_a under_o his_o power_n 3._o every_o gross_a sin_n as_o in_o noah_n david_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o conclude_v a_o man_n visible_o in_o covenant_n 190_o diatrib_o p._n 190_o much_o less_o ignorance_n as_o in_o child_n and_o youth_n baptise_a 2._o last_o of_o all_o one_o not_o convince_v and_o therefore_o not_o submit_v unto_o discipline_n see_v whether_o this_o new_a way_n lead_v its_o follower_n his_o five_o argument_n be_v take_v from_o mischief_n attend_v the_o common_a baptise_v of_o the_o child_n of_o such_o 1._o the_o slight_n of_o this_o ordinance_n without_o any_o preparation_n to_o it_o but_o all_o this_o may_v be_v amend_v by_o press_v the_o due_a reverence_n to_o this_o as_o to_o the_o other_o sacrament_n better_a then_o by_o debar_v the_o child_n its_o right_n for_o the_o parent_n fault_n 2._o be_v a_o jumble_v of_o the_o child_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a with_o the_o profane_v etc._n etc._n this_o fall_v upon_o himself_o for_o if_o the_o wicked_a parent_n be_v tolerate_v he_o will_v not_o he_o may_v not_o deny_v to_o baptise_v their_o child_n no_o more_o than_o of_o the_o holy_a parent_n he_o may_v grieve_v that_o he_o can_v reform_v this_o abuse_n but_o need_v not_o scruple_n to_o baptise_v their_o child_n nor_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o as_o for_o the_o other_o and_o now_o he_o come_v to_o the_o great_a objection_n the_o jew_n though_o very_o wicked_a have_v their_o child_n circumcise_v ergo_fw-la he_o answer_v many_o way_n 1._o he_o mention_n again_o that_o observation_n of_o gillespy_n that_o some_o say_v that_o the_o child_n of_o excommunicate_v jew_n be_v not_o circumcise_v but_o he_o do_v well_o to_o wave_v it_o as_o for_o what_o we_o say_v to_o it_o above_o so_o because_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n which_o be_v not_o of_o excommunicate_v parent_n but_o wicked_a parent_n tolerate_v 2._o he_o suppose_v they_o be_v not_o so_o guilty_a of_o ignorance_n as_o many_o of_o we_o but_o that_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n their_o child_n be_v as_o ignorant_a as_o we_o and_o the_o parent_n never_o excommunicate_v for_o ignorance_n nor_o their_o child_n deny_v circumcision_n for_o that_o reason_n but_o close_a to_o the_o point_n he_o say_v 3._o he_o will_v see_v a_o proof_n that_o the_o priest_n do_v debar_v many_o from_o the_o passeover_n for_o moral_a uncleanness_n many_o year_n as_o we_o do_v from_o the_o supper_n and_o yet_o have_v their_o child_n circumcise_v we_o answer_v 1._o the_o priest_n be_v blame_v for_o admit_v the_o moral_o unclean_a to_o some_o ordinance_n but_o it_o concern_v he_o to_o prove_v where_o ever_o they_o be_v blame_v for_o circumcise_n the_o child_n of_o such_o see_v ezech._n 44.7.9_o cite_v by_o himself_o pag._n 35._o to_o the_o same_o end_n 2._o it_o be_v doubtful_a at_o least_o whether_o the_o practice_n of_o those_o minister_n can_v be_v justify_v who_o suspend_v any_o so_o long_o from_o the_o supper_n and_o yet_o baptise_v their_o child_n therefore_o that_o can_v be_v no_o safe_a ground_n to_o debar_v child_n of_o such_o from_o baptism_n of_o which_o see_v mr._n jeanes_n 4._o he_o conceive_v something_o peculiar_a to_o they_o in_o that_o national_a constitution_n from_o we_o god_n enter_v covenant_n with_o abraham_n and_o his_o family_n command_v he_o to_o circumcise_v his_o seed_n the_o constitution_n of_o our_o church_n do_v not_o begin_v with_o any_o particular_a person_n but_o make_v disciple_n and_o baptise_v they_o but_o this_o make_v no_o great_a difference_n for_o a_o church_n christian_n may_v begin_v with_o a_o person_n and_o his_o family_n suppose_v one_o of_o a_o numerous_a family_n when_o he_o be_v disciple_v his_o house_n be_v disciple_v with_o he_o and_o there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n in_o his_o house_n yea_o every_o householder_n convert_v to_o the_o faith_n be_v a_o child_n of_o abraham_n in_o one_o sense_n and_o a_o root_n to_o his_o posterity_n in_o another_o and_o so_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v to_o he_o and_o his_o seed_n not_o only_o of_o the_o next_o but_o of_o remote_a generation_n till_o they_o apostate_n as_o ishmael_n and_o esau_n do_v he_o yield_v pag._n 33._o that_o descent_n by_o the_o flesh_n be_v one_o though_o not_o the_o sole_a ground_n of_o circumcision_n and_o so_o it_o be_v now_o 1_o cor._n 7.14_o let_v we_o see_v what_o be_v peculiar_a to_o they_o 1._o when_o they_o come_v to_o john_n baptism_n it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o plead_v we_o be_v abraham_n seed_n ergo_fw-la baptise_v we_o true_o because_o this_o be_v a_o new_a dispensation_n a_o new_a ordinance_n to_o which_o repentance_n be_v require_v in_o the_o first_o parent_n but_o not_o of_o their_o infant_n and_o just_o so_o it_o be_v in_o circumcision_n of_o proselyte_n to_o the_o jewish_a religion_n 2._o when_o they_o fall_v to_o foul_a apostasy_n their_o child_n be_v still_o circumcise_a whether_o regular_o he_o leave_v it_o yes_o regular_o for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a the_o rule_n be_v abraham_n and_o his_o seed_n must_v be_v circumcise_v and_o so_o the_o proportion_n hold_v for_o baptism_n if_o the_o parent_n fall_v into_o apostasy_n the_o child_n may_v regular_o be_v baptize_v for_o aught_o appear_v in_o the_o gospel_n to_o the_o contrary_a if_o they_o will_v give_v they_o up_o to_o their_o pro-parent_n or_o friend_n and_o they_o will_v undertake_v for_o they_o and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n a_o minister_n will_v baptise_v they_o 3._o they_o be_v very_o exact_a in_o admission_n of_o heathen_n more_o require_a than_o to_o profess_v they_o do_v believe_v in_o god_n etc._n etc._n so_o will_v we_o be_v in_o admission_n of_o infidel_n but_o that_o be_v nothing_o to_o admission_n of_o their_o child_n 4._o it_o be_v true_a that_o wicked_a jew_n be_v member_n of_o that_o church_n national_a may_v challenge_v circumcision_n so_o for_o wicked_a person_n so_o long_o as_o they_o continue_v member_n and_o the_o church_n let_v they_o alone_o they_o may_v challenge_v baptism_n now_o this_o express_o yield_v both_o the_o present_a