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church_n admit_v baptism_n child_n 2,681 5 5.7534 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41335 Weighty questions discussed I. Whether imposition of hands in separating a person to the work of the ministry be necessry?, II. Whether it be essential to the right constitution of a particular church, that the teaching elders and the members meet alwayes in one place? : whereunto is added a prediction of Mr. Daniel Rogers, minister in Essex, long before the beheading King Charles I and Arch-Bishop Laud, foretelling that they should not dye a natural death / by Giles Firmin ... Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.; D. R. (Daniel Rogers), 1573-1652. 1692 (1692) Wing F969; ESTC R31512 41,078 37

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of_o confirmation_n and_o bid_v i_o see_v dr._n owen_n so_o interpret_n it_o i_o honour_v the_o doctor_n and_o will_v consider_v he_o when_o i_o have_v first_o prove_v it_o be_v mean_v of_o ordination_n if_o man_n judgement_n be_v worth_a any_o thing_n then_o for_o learning_n and_o holiness_n we_o have_v very_o eminent_a man_n for_o it_o archbishop_n usher_n mr._n cart-wright_n dr._n lightfoot_n mr._n thomas_n hooker_n gualther_n tossanus_n bullinger_n gillespy_n dicson_n johnson_n jacob_n these_o understand_v it_o only_o of_o ordination_n other_o divine_v of_o confirmation_n and_o ordination_n and_o christianity_n and_o because_o my_o brother_n charge_v i_o with_o my_o false_a quotation_n of_o mr._n cart-wright_n take_v his_o word_n on_o heb._n 6.2_o by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n the_o apostle_n mean_v no_o sacrament_n much_o less_o confirmation_n after_o baptism_n but_o by_o a_o trope_n or_o borrow_a speech_n the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o which_o band_n be_v lay_v 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weighty_a question_n discuss_v i._o whether_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o separate_v a_o person_n to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n be_v necessary_a ii_o whether_o it_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o right_a constitution_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n that_o the_o teach_v elder_n and_o the_o member_n meet_v always_o in_o one_o place_n whereunto_o be_v add_v a_o prediction_n of_o mr._n daniel_n rogers_n minister_n in_o essex_n long_o before_o the_o behead_n king_n charles_n i._n and_o archbishop_n laud_n foretell_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o die_v a_o natural_a death_n by_o giles_n firmin_n author_n of_o the_o real_a christian_a what_o thing_n soever_o i_o command_v you_o observe_v to_o do_v it_o thou_o shall_v not_o add_v thereto_o nor_o diminish_v from_o it_o deut._n 13.32_o london_n print_v for_o the_o author_n 1692._o to_o the_o reader_n that_o unity_n among_o christian_a brethren_n be_v a_o thing_n not_o only_o beautiful_a in_o itself_o but_o also_o a_o duty_n great_o incumbent_a upon_o they_o who_o profess_v that_o bless_a name_n of_o christ_n none_o that_o read_v the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o it_o yea_o a_o duty_n so_o great_o incumbent_a that_o they_o who_o do_v not_o all_o they_o can_v to_o promote_v it_o provide_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v preserve_v take_n care_n that_o they_o neither_o profess_v nor_o practice_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n but_o what_o be_v according_a to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n lest_o that_o unity_n shall_v be_v hinder_v they_o neither_o show_v that_o respect_n to_o the_o command_n of_o christ_n to_o we_o nor_o to_o the_o prayer_n he_o make_v to_o his_o father_n for_o this_o end_n as_o become_v christian_n i_o think_v i_o may_v have_v say_v see_v at_o that_o holy_a table_n where_o we_o be_v many_o be_v one_o bread_n 1_o cor._n 10.17_o i_o do_v admit_v independent_o presbyterian_o &_o anabaptist_n member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o be_v and_o walk_v as_o christian_n though_o we_o differ_v in_o opinion_n and_o here_o ecclesiastical_a union_n be_v chief_o see_v that_o both_o in_o former_a time_n and_o in_o these_o day_n i_o have_v be_v as_o desirous_a of_o this_o unity_n as_o some_o other_o men._n glad_a i_o be_v when_o i_o hear_v some_o brethren_n of_o the_o independent_a and_o presbyterial_a persuasion_n in_o london_n do_v attempt_v it_o their_o name_n be_v very_o dear_a unto_o i_o when_o i_o hear_v who_o they_o be_v that_o labour_v in_o it_o though_o i_o know_v none_o of_o they_o more_o glad_a i_o be_v when_o about_o four_o year_n since_o a_o copy_n of_o the_o agreement_n be_v send_v i_o to_o which_o my_o brethren_n in_o the_o country_n and_o myself_o ready_o consent_v we_o expect_v the_o same_o shall_v have_v be_v publish_v but_o we_o find_v another_o much_o different_a from_o it_o in_o particular_a in_o the_o former_a ordination_n be_v to_o be_v perform_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n but_o in_o this_o the_o word_n be_v 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〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 131._o 〈◊〉_d the_o precedent_n with_o the_o presbytery_n so_o beza_n and_o raynoldus_n anglorum_fw-la eruditissimus_fw-la etc._n etc._n say_v didocla_n alta._n damas_n p._n 131._o the_o light_n of_o nature_n direct_v to_o this_o i_o will_v willing_o have_v but_o one_o instance_n give_v where_o this_o government_n be_v ever_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o church_n more_o i_o can_v say_v i_o only_o mention_v this_o that_o though_o in_o these_o point_n i_o may_v differ_v from_o my_o brethren_n beside_o what_o be_v mention_v in_o the_o agreement_n yet_o it_o hinder_v not_o my_o union_n with_o they_o what_o this_o due_a ordination_n be_v our_o brethren_n as_o i_o say_v have_v not_o tell_v we_o hence_o the_o discuss_n of_o this_o question_n fall_v not_o under_o that_o prohibition_n p._n 3._o that_o we_o must_v not_o dispute_v those_o different_a sentiment_n for_o our_o sentiment_n do_v all_o agree_v it_o must_v be_v due_a ordination_n which_o if_o it_o be_v not_o 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hand_n it_o lie_v upon_o you_o to_o show_v where_o that_o precept_n or_o precedent_n be_v i_o know_v no_o such_o text_n you_o act_v do_v you_o act_n in_o faith_n that_o you_o act_v according_a to_o god_n and_o be_v well-pleasing_a to_o god_n in_o your_o ordain_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n then_o show_v we_o that_o divine_a testimony_n upon_o which_o your_o faith_n for_o so_o act_v be_v ground_v you_o never_o give_v i_o one_o as_o yet_o and_o if_o you_o can_v do_v it_o your_o faith_n in_o this_o act_n be_v but_o vain_a if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n i_o do_v in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n for_o which_o i_o can_v give_v either_o precept_n precedent_n necessary_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n or_o light_n of_o nature_n i_o will_v lay_v by_o that_o act_n i_o will_v not_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o hinder_v union_n with_o my_o brethren_n by_o keep_v up_o such_o practice_n three_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o constitute_v church_n as_o you_o do_v with_o one_o single_a pastor_n etc._n etc._n in_o nine_o church_n we_o find_v several_a teacher_n but_o not_o one_o with_o a_o single_a teacher_n in_o a_o young_a church_n at_o antioch_n act._n 13.2_o 3._o there_o be_v three_o teacher_n to_o separate_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n there_o be_v a_o error_n then_o in_o your_o constitution_n and_o that_o do_v not_o justify_v your_o error_n in_o ordination_n four_o give_v i_o a_o precedent_n where_o the_o pastor_n of_o one_o church_n do_v so_o much_o as_o preach_v or_o pray_v in_o another_o church_n if_o you_o can_v than_o we_o must_v not_o so_o much_o as_o preach_v or_o pray_v in_o another_o church_n but_o you_o have_v call_v i_o and_o other_o to_o preach_v in_o your_o church_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v i_o you_o can_v well_o do_v that_o from_o matth._n 28.19_o go_v teach_v all_o nation_n if_o so_o then_o in_o other_o church_n answ_n first_o set_a by_o precedent_n then_o it_o seem_v you_o can_v find_v none_o second_o i_o may_v deny_v your_o consequence_n at_o ●●ast_n according_a to_o some_o independent_a principle_n unless_o i_o preach_v as_o a_o gift_a brother_n to_o preach_v to_o the_o nation_n who_o be_v heathen_n and_o to_o preach_v in_o a_o independent_a church_n differ_v i_o may_v preach_v to_o heathen_a as_o a_o minister_n of_o christ_n but_o in_o a_o independent_a church_n as_o a_o gi●ted_a brother_n i_o wish_v we_o know_v the_o first_o author_n of_o this_o distinction_n that_o we_o may_v scratch_v his_o cranium_fw-la for_o so_o witty_a a_o invention_n what_o your_o judgement_n be_v as_o to_o this_o distinction_n 101._o lib._n 2._o p._n 101._o i_o can_v tell_v but_o i_o be_o of_o dr._n owen_n mind_n if_o i_o do_v not_o think_v myself_o bo●nd_a say_v he_o to_o preach_v as_o a_o minister_n and_o as_o a_o minister_n authorize_v in_o all_o place_n and_o on_o all_o occasion_n whe●_n i_o be_o call_v thereunto_o i_o think_v i_o shall_v never_o preach_v much_o more_o in_o this_o world_n fisth_o if_o that_o text_n will_v warrant_v i_o to_o preach_v in_o another_o church_n it_o will_v warrant_v i_o to_o baptise_v in_o another_o church_n if_o there_o be_v need_n and_o i_o be_o call_v to_o it_o they_o be_v join_v together_o and_o if_o i_o may_v put_v forth_o two_o act_n of_o authority_n i_o may_v also_o put_v forth_o a_o three_o if_o there_o want_v a_o pastor_n and_o i_o be_o call_v to_o join_v with_o other_o to_o separate_v he_o to_o his_o office_n we_o will_v do_v it_o according_a to_o the_o word_n with_o fast_v prayer_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o ordination_n we_o do_v not_o give_v he_o the_o deficition_n six_o since_o than_o we_o be_v come_v to_o consequence_n from_o scripture_n i_o give_v you_o a_o scripture_n 1_o cor._n 12.12_o the_o body_n be_v one_o and_o have_v many_o member_n etc._n etc._n he_o do_v not_o mean_a that_o particular_a church_n of_o corinth_n be_v that_o one_o body_n he_o add_v so_o be_v christ_n v._o 13._o jew_n and_o gentile_n make_v up_o that_o one_o 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may_v there_o deny_v her_o communion_n also_o but_o when_o you_o meet_v public_o with_o other_o there_o you_o shall_v not_o deny_v but_o she_o may_v be_v present_a at_o prayer_n be_v it_o be_v natural_a worship_n though_o she_o be_v actual_o excommunicate_v and_o render_v as_o a_o heathen_a i_o have_v see_v the_o indian_n present_a with_o we_o at_o prayer_n and_o preach_v though_o as_o yet_o they_o have_v not_o embrace_v christianity_n three_o as_o for_o the_o civil_a familiarity_n you_o have_v with_o she_o before_o you_o ought_v to_o suspend_v that_o too_o 2_o thess_n 3.14_o and_o verse_n 6._o yet_o have_v a_o care_n of_o she_o be_v in_o a_o poor_a condition_n that_o she_o do_v not_o perish_v four_o you_o may_v choose_v three_o or_o sour_a of_o your_o chief_a member_n and_o send_v they_o to_o she_o to_o make_v she_o know_v the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n do_v this_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n the_o church_n do_v so_o the_o effect_n of_o it_o be_v the_o clamour_n of_o the_o people_n cease_v the_o mouth_n of_o they_o who_o before_o be_v open_v against_o we_o be_v silent_a and_o now_o they_o rather_o sound_v salt_n with_o i_o that_o i_o be_v too_o sharp_a upon_o the_o person_n offend_v the_o effect_n be_v a_o relent_a and_o humble_v of_o herself_o before_o god_n in_o the_o public_a congregation_n to_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o the_o church_n she_o be_v now_o dead_a but_o the_o church_n have_v then_o their_o pastor_n absolve_v she_o before_o she_o die_v and_o it_o be_v a_o comfort_n to_o she_o her_o absolntion_n be_v without_o money_n by_o this_o i_o see_v be_v this_o ordinance_n of_o church_n discipline_n carry_v on_o according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o have_v be_v so_o fearful_o abuse_v we_o shall_v need_v no_o writ_n de_fw-fr excommunicato_fw-la capiendo_fw-la i_o do_v but_o add_v a_o sew_v word_n what_o the_o case_n of_o such_o a_o person_n be_v under_o this_o sentence_n and_o it_o strike_v a_o awe_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o carnal_a people_n to_o return_v to_o my_o brother_n to_o what_o i_o have_v say_v from_o the_o one_o body_n in_o the_o corinth_n 12._o that_o the_o pastor_n of_o church_n may_v help_v other_o church_n where_o there_o be_v none_o and_o they_o call_v to_o help_v they_o you_o answer_v i_o this_o be_v all_o you_o have_v to_o say_v and_o there_o be_v little_a in_o it_o answ_n no_o not_o all_o brother_n i_o give_v you_o your_o own_o text_n whereby_o you_o prove_v that_o pastor_n of_o other_o church_n may_v join_v with_o you_o in_o day_n of_o fast_v and_o prayer_n and_o preach_v and_o if_o so_o then_o in_o ordain_v 2_o i_o give_v you_o the_o text_n of_o scripture_n whereby_o the_o synod_n of_o n._n england_n prove_v they_o may_v ordain_v in_o another_o church_n with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n you_o tell_v i_o you_o deny_v a_o political-visible_a catholic_n church_n answ_n so_o do_v i._o if_o i_o say_v but_o little_a i_o be_o sure_a you_o say_v too_o much_o how_o do_v it_o follow_v because_o we_o may_v help_v neighbour_n church_n when_o they_o call_v we_o to_o help_v they_o with_o pastor_n in_o a_o gospel_n way_n therefore_o i_o must_v own_o a_o political_a visible_a catholic_n church_n i_o give_v you_o instance_n before_o how_o church_n may_v help_v to_o purge_v themselves_o from_o seandalous_a person_n though_o they_o have_v no_o officer_n if_o there_o be_v a_o family_n by_o we_o where_o be_v several_a child_n parent_n both_o dead_a and_o there_o be_v none_o that_o take_v care_n of_o they_o to_o help_v they_o to_o food_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n for_o i_o to_o go_v to_o the_o house_n and_o help_v they_o with_o food_n another_o thing_n to_o cast_v one_o of_o the_o child_n out_o of_o the_o house_n if_o it_o be_v cross_a refractory_a and_o will_v not_o be_v reclaim_v by_o counsel_n thecase_n be_v the_o same_o here_o twenty_o or_o forty_o elder_n may_v meet_v to_o give_v counsel_n in_o a_o case_n leave_v the_o execution_n to_o the_o church_n 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another_o church_n to_o separate_v to_o a_o office_n be_v a_o act_n of_o authority_n who_o we_o may_v appaint_v not_o the_o people_n act._n 6.3_o you_o tell_v i_o the_o 13_o act_n 3._o be_v no_o platform_n for_o we_o unless_o we_o have_v a_o immediate_a command_n from_o god_n to_o ordain_v men._n answ_n the_o immediate_a command_n be_v in_o the_o separate_a paul_n and_o barnabas_n to_o the_o work_n of_o their_o apostleship_n the_o command_n be_v not_o to_o teach_v they_o how_o they_o shall_v separate_v the_o lord_n say_v only_o separate_a etc._n etc._n they_o know_v how_o they_o shall_v separate_v before_o the_o synod_n of_o new-england_n and_o dr._n owen_n be_v much_o mistake_v who_o quote_v this_o text_n for_o ordination_n by_o impostion_n of_o hand_n but_o to_o this_o text_n i_o have_v speak_v before_o as_o to_o what_o you_o say_v that_o gift_n be_v then_o conser_v with_o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n answ_n the_o end_n when_o the_o lord_n first_o command_v it_o be_v not_o to_o confer_v gift_n but_o to_o separate_v numb_a 8.10_o 14._o so_o act_v 13.3_o separate_a we_o paul_n etc._n etc._n 2._o the_o savoy_n confession_n be_v against_o you_o if_o there_o be_v elder_n in_o the_o same_o church_n it_o call_v for_o imposition_n of_o hand_n 3._o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v gift_v before_o as_o i_o name_v the_o text_n 4._o the_o deacon_n be_v gift_v before_o their_o ordination_n act_v 6.3_o 5._o paul_n then_o need_v not_o to_o have_v give_v that_o caution_n to_o timothy_n 2_o tim._n 2.2_o that_o they_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o who_o he_o commit_v the_o gospel-doctrine_n for_o timothy_n by_o the_o impose_v hand_n may_v confer_v gift_n and_o make_v they_o able_a or_o fit_a man_n for_o the_o work_n 6._o as_o to_o what_o you_o gather_v from_o 1_o tim._n 4.14_o for_o your_o proof_n that_o text_n you_o know_v admit_v of_o controversy_n as_o whether_o timothy_n be_v not_o first_o ordain_v a_o presbyter_n and_o asterwards_o a_o evangelist_n whether_o paul_n 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must_v own_o succission_n and_o those_o pollute_a hand_n etc._n etc._n answ_n your_o argument_n speak_v thus_o if_o you_o will_v have_v no_o ordination_n without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n according_a to_o scripture_n than_o you_o must_v own_o succession_n so_o i_o will_v be_v imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o ordination_n a_o invention_n of_o rome_n or_o a_o institution_n of_o god_n the_o papist_n can_v prove_v their_o act_n in_o this_o point_n by_o scripture_n so_o can_v you_v 2._o mr._n robinson_n mr._n johnson_n though_o rigid_a old_a separate_v yet_o worthy_a man_n make_v light_n of_o this_o argument_n because_o it_o be_v god_n own_o appoinement_n 3_o you_o have_v best_o throw_v away_o baptism_n because_o their_o pollute_a hand_n do_v
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