chuse an other conceyueth the prayer wherby the helpe of God in that election and his direction is begged and no doubt executed the residue of the things which pertayned vnto the whole action In the seconde of the actes all the Apostles are accused of drunkennesse Peter answeareth for thē all wypeth away the infamy they were charged with But you will say where are the voyces of the rest which did chuse Peter vnto thys First you must know that the scripture setteth not downe euery circumstāce then surely you do Peter great iniury that aske whether he were chosen vnto it For is it to bee thought that Peter would thrust in hym selfe to this office or dignitie without the consent and allowance of hys fellowes and preuent hys fellowes of thys preheminence vndoubtedly if it hadde not beene done arrogantly yet it must needes haue a great shew of arrogancye if hee hadde done thys without the consent of hys fellowes And heere you shall heare what the Scholiast sayth which gathereth the iudgement of Greke diuines hora speaking of Peter panta meta koines auton gnomes poiounta Behold how he doth all with their common consent And if any man hereupon will say that Peter exercised domination ouer the rest or gate any archapostleship beside that the whole story of the actes of the apostles and his whole course of life doth refute that the same Scholiast which I made mention of in the same place sayth he did nothing archikos imperiously nothing meta exousias with domynion or power Further I will admonishe him to take heede least if he striue so sore for the archbyshop he slide or euer he be aware into the tentes of the papistes which vse these places to proue that Peter had authoritie and rule ouer the rest of the apostles And that it may bee vnderstanded that thys moderate rule voyde of all pompe and outward shew was not perpetuall nor alwayes tyed vnto one man which were the last poyntes of the cautions I put before turne vnto the 15. of the Actes where is shewed how with the rest of the church the apostles and amongst them Peter being assembled to decide a great controuersie Iames the Apostle and not Peter moderated and gouerned the whole action when as after other had sayd their iudgementes and namely Paule and Barnabas Peter he in the ende in the name of all pronounced the sentence and that whereof the rest agreed and had disputed vnto and the residue rested in that iudgement the which also may likewyse appeare in the 21. of the Actes This is hee which is called the byshop in euery church thys is he also whome Iustin wherof mention is made afterwardes calleth proestos And finally thys is that great archbishoppricke and great bishoppricke that M. Doctor so often stumbleth on This order and preheminence the Apostles time and those that were neare them kept and the nearer they came to the apostles times the nearer they kept them to this order and the farther of they were from those times vntill the discouering of the sonne of perdition the further of were they from thys moderation and nearer to that tyranny and ambitious power which oppressed and ouerlayde the churche of God. And therefore maister Caluin doth warely say that one amongst the apostles indefinitely not any one singular person as Peter had the moderation and rule of the other and further shadoweth out what rule that was by the example of the consul of Rome whose authoritie was to gather the senate together to tell of the matters which were to be handled to gather the voyces to pronounce the sentence And although the Antichrist of Rome had peruerted all good order and taken all libertie of the church into hys the Cardinalles Archbishops and Byshoppes handes yet there are some colde and lyght footinges of it in our synodes which are holden with the parliament where amongst all the mynisters which are assembled out of all the whole realme by the more part of voyces one to chosen which should goe before the rest propounde the causes gather the voyces and bee as it were the mouth of the whole company whome they terme the prolocutor Suche great force hath the truthe that in the vtter ruines of Popery it could neuer be so pulled vp by the rootes that a man coulde neuer know the place thereof no more or that it shoulde not leaue suche markes and printes behinde it whereby it myght afterwardes recouer it selfe and come agayne to the knowledge of men Now you see what authoritie we allow amongst the ministers both in their seuerall churches or in prouinciall sinodes or nationall or generall or what so euer other meetinges shall be aduised of for the profite and edifying of the church and withall you see that as we are farre from thys tyranny and excessiue power which now is in the church so we are by the grace of God as farre from confusion and disorder wherein you trauell so much to make vs to seeme giltie M. Doctor reasoneth agayne that Paule an Apostle and in the highest degree of ministerie was superior to Timothe and Titus Euangelistes and so in a lower degree of mynisterie therefore one mynister is superior to an other one byshop to an other byshop whych are all one office and one function As if I shuld say my Lord Mayor of London is aboue the sherifes therfore one sherife is superior to an other Again an other argumēt he hath of the same strēgth Titus being an Euangelist was superior to al the pastors in Crete which was a degree vnder the Euangelists therfore one pastor must be superior vnto an other pastor And that he was superior he proueth because he had authority to ordaine pastors so that the print of the archbyshop is so deepely set in his head that hereof he can imagine nothing but that Titus shuld be archbishop of all Crete I haue shewed before how these words are to be taken of S. Paule and for so much as M. Doctor burdeneth vs wyth the authority of Caluin so often I wil send him to Caluins owne interpretation vpon this place wher he sheweth the Titus did not ordaine by his owne authority for s. Paul wold not graunt Titus leaue to do that whych he him self wold not and sheweth that to say that Titus should make the election of pastors by him selfe is to giue vnto hym a princely authority and to take away the election from the church and the iudgement of the insufficiency of the minister from the company of the pastors whych were sayeth he to prophane the whole gouernment of the church I maruell therfore what M. doctor meaneth to be so busy wyth M. Caluin and to seke confirmation of his archbyshop and byshop at him whych wold haue shaken at the naming of the one and trembled at the office of the other onles it be because he would faine haue hys plaister where he receiued hys wound but I dare assure him
Egipt cryed in the councell of Calcedon that he was no bishop it is to be obserued that which the Emperoures Theodosius and Valentinian wryte vnto Dioscorus bishop of Alexandria that he had commaunded Theodoret byshop of Cyrus that he should kepe hym selfe vnto hys owne church only wherby it appeareth that he medled in moe churches then was mete he should Besides that wanteth not suspition the he speaketh this of him selfe especially when he sayth the there was not in all those 800. churches one tare the is one hypocrite or euil maÌ„ Now that it may appeare what great lykelyhoode there is betwene thys Theodoret and our Lord byshops and archbyshops it is to be considered which he wryteth of hym selfe in the Epistle vnto Leo that is that he hauing bene 26. yeares byshop was knowne of all that dwelt in those partes that he had neuer house of hys owne nor field nor halfepennie not so much as a place to be buryed in but had willingly contented hym selfe with a poore estate belyke he had a very leane archbyshoppricke And if the fat morsels of our byshopprickes archbishopprickes were taken employed to their vses of maintenance of the pore of the mynisters and of the vniuersities which are the seede of the mynisterie I thincke the heate of the disputation and contention for archbyshops and bishops would be cooled Now good reader thou hearest what M. Doctor hath bene able to take together out of the olde fathers which he sayth are so playne in thys matter and yet can shew nothing to the purpose Heare also what he sayth out of the wryters of our age all which he sayth except one or two are of hys iudgement and allow well of thys distinction of degrees Maister Caluin first is cited to proue those offices of archbyshop primate patriarche the names whereof he can not abyde and as for hym he approueth only that there should be some â–ª which when difficult causes arise which can not bee ended in the particulare churches might referre the matters to sinodes and prouinciall councels and which myght do the offices which I haue spoken of before of gathering voyces c. But that he lyketh not of those dominations and large iurisdictions or at all of the byshoppes or archbyshops which we haue now it may appeare playnly enough both in that place when as he will haue hys wordes drawen to no other then the olde byshoppes shutting out thereby the byshoppes that now are as also in other places and namely vpon the Philippians where reasoning agaynst thys distinction betwene pastor and byshop and shewing that geuing the name of byshop to one man only in a church was the occasion why he afterward vsurped domynation ouer the rest he sayth after thys sort In deede I graunt sayth he as the dispositions and manners of men are order can not stande amongst the mynisters of the woorde vnlesse one be ouer the rest I meane sayth he of euery seuerall and singuler body not of a whole prouince much lesse of the whole worlde Now if you will needes haue M. Caluins archbyshop you must not haue hym neyther ouer a prouince nor diocese but only ouer one singuler and particuler congregation How much better therefore were it for you to seeke some other shelter against the storme then maister Caluins which will not suffer you by any meanes to couer your selfe vnder hys winges but thrusteth you out alwayes as soone as you enter vpon him forceably But heere I can not let passe M. Doctors ill dealing which recyting so much of maister Caluin cutteth hym of in the waste and leaueth quite out that which made agaynst hym that is which maister Caluin â—ayth in these wordes Although sayth he in thys disputacion it may not be passed ouer that this office of archbyshop or patriarke was most rarely and seldome vsed which dealing semeth to proceede of a very euill conscience Then followeth Hemingius who you say approueth these degrees of archbishop metropolitane byshop archdeacon for so you must needes meane when you say he approueth these degrees or els you say nothing for there vpon is the question Now how vntruely you speake let it be iudged by that which followeth * First he sayth that our sauiour Christ in S. Luke distinguisheth and putteth a difference betwene the office of a Prince and the office of the minister of the church leauing domynion to the Princes and taking it altogether from the mynisters Here you see not only how he is agaynst you in your exposition in the place of S. Luke which wold haue it nothing else but a prohibition of ambitioÌ„ but also how at a word he cutteth the throte of your archbyshop and byshop as it is now vsed And afterward speaking of the churches of Denmarke he sayth they haue Christ for their head for the outwarde discipline they haue magistrates to punish with the sword for to exercise the Ecclesiasticall disciplyne they haue bishops pastors doctors which may keepe men vnder with the word without vsing any corporall punishment Here is no mention of archbyshops Primates metropolitanes And although he sheweth that they kepe the distinction betwene byshops and ministers against whych there hath bene before spoken yet he sayth that the authority which they haue is as the authority of a father not as the power of a maister whych is far otherwise heere For the condition of many seruaunts vnder their maisters is much more free then the condition of a minister vnder hys byshop And afterward he sheweth wherin that authority or dignity of the byshop ouer the minister lyeth that is in exhorting of him in chiding of hym as he doth the lay people and yet he will haue also the minister although not with such authority after a modest sort to do the same vnto the byshop And so he concludeth that they retain these orders notwithstanding the anabaptists Now let the reader iudge whether Hemingius be truely or faithfully alledged or no or whether Hemingius do say that they haue in their church archbishops primates metropolitanes archdeacons or whether the byshops in the churches of Denmarke are any thing like oures For I will omit that he speaketh there against all pomp in the ministery all worldly superiority or highnes because I loue not to wryte out whole pages as M. Doctor doth out of other mens wrytings to helpe to make vp a boke M. doctor closeth vp this matter wyth M. Foxe but eyther for feare that the place should be found that there might be answer or for feare that M. Foxe should giue me the solution whych hath giuen you the obiection he wold neither quote the place of the boke nor the boke it self he hauing wrytten diuers You caÌ„ not speake so much good of M. Foxe whych I will not willingly subscribe vnto And if it be any declaration of good will and of honor that one beareth to an other to read that whych he wryteth I thinke I haue
disciplyne no church For they deny we haue the word or sacramēts because we hold not theyr word sacrifice but if there be that so reason yet these men that you charge haue neyther any such antecedent or such a consequent for they neuer sayde that there is no ministerie in Englande nor yet do euer conclude that there is no worde no sacraments no dysciplyne nor church For in saying that the face of the church doth not so much appeare for so the whole proces of their booke doth declare that they meane when they say that we haue not scarse the face of the church they graunt that we haue the church of God but that for want of those ornaments which it shuld haue and through certayne the deformed ragges of poperie which it should not haue the churche doth not appeare in her natiue colours and so beautifull as it is meete she should be prepared to so glorious a husband as is the sonne of god Say you certaynly and doe you beleue that the authors of thys booke are conspired wyth the papystes to ouerthrow thys church and realme Now certaynly I will neuer doe that iniury vnto them as once to go about to purge them of so manifest slaunders nor neuer be brought by the outrage of your speaches to proue that noone day is not mydnight And therfore as for you I will set your conscience and you together The reader I will desire not to thinke it a strange thing For it is no other then hath happened to the seruaunts of God euen from those which haue professed the same relygion which they dyd as it appeareth in Ieremy whiche was accused of certayne of the Israelites that he had conspyred with the Babylonyans their mortall ennemyes and layde to hys charge that he was going to them when he was going to Beniamin To the. 36. 37. 38. page IT maketh for the purpose whiche is alleaged out of the first of the actes to proue that there ought to be tryall of those which are chosen to the ministerie for when S. Peter sayth that suche a one must be chosen as hathe bene contynually conuersant with our sauioure Christ and from the beginning of his preaching vntill the day wherein he ascended into heauen he ment nothing els but that such a one should be chosen which was sufficiently instructed and had bene contynually a scholer of our sauioure Christe and therefore fitte to teache and to witnes that which they had seene and whose godly conuersation was notoriously knowne Besides that albeit those two Mathyas and Barsabas were therefore set vp in the myddest that the church in the prayer that was made for their election myghte by seeing them pray the earnestlyer for them yet it was also as much to say that if any could obiect any thing agaynst them that he should preferre hys obiection And whether they were examined or no the matter is not great neyther when it is sayde that a tryall should be had it is ment that when the parties are famously knowne to those whych haue the right of trying as that there shoulde be alwayes necessaryly an apposing and examyning so that the sufficiencie of doctryne and holynesse of lyfe for the whych cause the tryall and examynation is commaunded be knowne and agreed vpon by them that choose it is enough And so these two being notoriously knowne and consented of by the churche to bee fitte men myght happely not be examyned but yet the wordes of S. Peter declare playnly that in the choyse of them there was regarde had to both their abilitie to teach and honesty of conuersation And although there be certayne thinges extraordinary in this election as that such a one must be chosen which hadde bene conuersant with our fauioure Christ and that there were two put vp for one place and that it was permitted to lottes to cast the Apostleship vpon one of them two as if the Lord should by the lottes from heauen tell who should haue it yet it followeth not to say that the rest of the things that are there vsed should not be practised in ordinary callinges for as much as they will well agree with them And M. Caluin in the place you alledge sayth that the ordinary callinges somwhat differ from the calling of the Apostles and after sheweth wherein that is in that they were appoynted immediatly of God and by his mouthe whereby it appeareth that for the residue of those thyngs whych are there mentioned he holdeth that they may well stande wyth the ordinarye elections And where you saye that the sixt of the Actes because it speaketh of Deacons is nothyng to the matter me thynke you shoulde haue easely vnderstanded that if a triall be necessary in Deacons whych is an vnder office in the church and hath regard but to one parte of the church whych is the pore and is occupied in the distribution of money much more it ought to be in an office of greater charge which hath respect to the whole church and is occupyed in the dispensing of the holy word of God. But in the ende you agree that they shoulde be tryed so that nowe the quection standeth only howe and by what meanes wherein you for your part saye that the booke of ordering mynisters is a suffycient and good rule I haue red it and yet I can not commende it greatly But you will say not wyth iudgement or indifferencie I will promise you with this indifferencie that I wyshed that all that is there were good and conuenyent and such as I myght say vnto so be it Wyth what iudgement I doe disalow it I leaue it to all men to esteeme vpon these reasons First that the examynation of hys doctryne wholely and partly of hys life is permitted to one man For consydering of the one parte the greatnesse of the charge that is committed vnto the mynisters and the horrible pearill that commeth vnto the church by the want of those thinges that are required in them and of the other parte wrighing the weakenesse of the nature of man which althoughe he seeth many thinges yet hee is blynde also in many and that euen in those thinges which he seeth he suffereth hym selfe to be caryed away by his affection of loue or of enuie c. I say considering these thinges it is very daungerous to commit that to the view and searche of one man which may wyth losse danger and more safetie be referred vnto dyuers For herein the prouerbe is true plus vident oculi quam oculus And almost there is no office of charge in thys realme which lyeth in election committed so sleightly to any as that vpon one mans reporte of hys habilitie all the rest which haue interest in the election will geue their voyces so that if we were destitute of authoritie of the scripture the very lyght of reason would shew vs a more safe and weryer way But there is greater authoritie for S. Luke in the first
of the Acces sheweth that S. Peter would not take vpon him to present two as sitte for the place which was voyde but sayth they dyd present or sette vp whereby appeareth that the examynation of their habilitie was committed to manye The same appeareth also in the sixte of the Actes when as the Apostles wil the church wherin there were so excellent personages to looke out seuen full of the holy ghost and wisdome c. they doe not there permit the dyscerning of their wisdome and other giftes to one but to many Secondarely I cannot commend it for that that one man is the Archdeacon which must examyne the pastors and iudge of their sufficiencie For what is the Archdeacon is he not a Deacon for he being the cheefe Deacon must needes be also a Deacon hym selfe And therfore although the cheefe deacon yet inferioure to any of the pastoures and the * giftes which are required in hym inferioure to those which are required in the pastoure And to make him iudge of the aptnesse ablenesse of the pastoure is to make the inferioure in giftes iudge of the superioure he that hath by hys calling lesse giftes iudge of his which hath by his calling greater giftes which is nothing else then to appoynt him that hath but one eye to ouersee hys sight that hath two Thirdly I mistyke the booke because it permitteth that the Bishop may admit the minister vpon the credite and report of the Archdeacon vpon his examination if there be no oppositiō of the people which appeareth by these words in the booke whereas to the Archdeacon saying thus Reuerend father in god I present vnto you these persons to be made priestes c. The Byshop answereth ¶ Take heede that the persons whome you present vnto vs be apt and meete for their godly conuersacion to exercise their ministerie duely to the honour of God and edifying of his church And thereupon I thinke it commeth that the Archdeacon is called the eye of the Byshop But why doth not he himselfe take heede vnto it with what conscience can he admit a Minister of whose fitnesse he knoweth not but vpon the credit of an other although he were otherwise very fitte where can he haue that full perswasion that he doth well vpon the report of others when the report of his life and learning is made but of one And therefore * S. Paul ordayned that the same should be the ordeyners and the examyners and not to hang vpon the fayth or report of an other man in thinges that are so waightie and whereof he may him selfe take notice Fourthly for that albeit the church is demaunded whether it haue any thing to obiect yet that church whereof he is to be pastor which it skilleth especially that he be fitte is not demaunded and which would because it standeth them vpon inquire dyligently of hym Agayne they are demaunded which can obiect nothing of his insufficiencie when for the most part they neuer see nor heard of before as one that came of one day vnto the towne and goeth away the next Further they haue no reasonable space geuen them wherein they may inquire or hearken out of hys honest conuersation and haue some experyence of hys soundnesse in teaching and discretion and iudgement to rule hys flocke But if as sone as euer it be sayde to those that are straungers that they should obiect agaynst them no mā stand forth to obiect any thing forthwith he is made a mynister And these are those things wherein I thinke the booke of ordering Mynisters faultie touching the tryall and examynation of the mynisters whiche selfe same thinges are lykewyse of the tryall of the Deacon And so you see that besydes the faultes of those that execute the lawe that there bee faultes in the lawes themselues and therefore the cause is truely assygned althoughe you see it not And what meane you still to vse thys fyghting wyth your owne shadow for where are the wordes or what be they that condemne all the Ministers for some that say all the Ministers are vnlawfully admitted for some or that there is none good because some are badde If there be no such wordes as cary with them any suche sense then you do wrong to your brethren If there be wordes that declare the cleane contrary then all men see what you be which althoughe you often faulte in yet I am lothe so often to name and charge you wyth it When it is sayd that learned and vnlearned are receyued it is euydent that they condemne not all The Lord blesse and encrease an hundreth folde the godly wise learned graue ministers of thys churche And because these wordes seeme to rocke vs a sleepe and to bring vs into forgetfulnesse of the great ruines desolations of the Churche I muste tell you that two thousande able and suffycient mynisters which preache and feede dyligently and carefully the flocke of Christ were hard to be founde in thys Churche which haue bene notwithstanding founde in the Church of Fraunce by the estimation of those which know the estate euen vnder the tyme of the crosse where there were no such helpes of Magistrates and appoynted stypendes as God be praysed we haue And agayne you are to be put in mynde that a great number of those were bredde in king Edwardes dayes so that I feare me a man neede no great Arithmatike to counte the numbers of such able ministers as the late yeares haue brought forth And yet I am well assured that if the ministerie were reformed and worthy men were sought for there are great nombers of zelous and learned men that would lay their handes to serue thys kynde of building by the ministerie For besydes numbers that the Vniuersities would yelde which sigh for the repayring of the decayes of the church to helpe forwarde so great a worke the Innes of Courte and other the gentrie of the realme Galene and Iustinian would bryng theyr tenthes and as it were pay their shot in this reckening It is not denied but the testimonie that a noble man which professeth the truth doth geue ought to be weighed accordyng to hys degree place which he hath in the common wealth but where you thinke that the testimonie of one wise man learned and godly is sufficient warrant to proceede to an election of a Minister you considered not well the circumspection which S. Paul vsed who when he admytted Tymothe into hys company to be a companyon in hys iourney to cutte of all occasion of euill speche receyued hym not * but vpon commendation of the brethren both in Lystra and I conyum You know they ment by the basest of the people such as gaue but one leape out of the shoppe into the Church as sodenly are chaunged out of a seruing mans coate into a mynisters cloke making for the most part the ministerie their last refuge c. And seeing that besydes the words be playne the dayly
and that to be vnderstanded of our ministers which was of theirs or of our faultes which was of theirs Thys is not the way to Anabaptisme but to all heresies and schismes that euer haue bene or shall be For if you goe forwarde in clipping the scripture as you begin you will leaue vs nothing in the ende wherewith we may eyther defend our selues agaynst heretikes or be able to strike at them Whereas you say there is a great difference betweene the seueritie of the law and lenitie of the gospell me thinkes I smell a spice of the error of the Maniches which were also schollers in that behalfe of the olde hereticke Cerdon that there is a good and an euill a gentle and a seuere God one vnder the law and an other vnder the gospell For to saye that God was then a seuere punysher of sinne and that now he is not at so great hatred wyth it but that he will haue it gentlyer and softlyer dealt with is euen all one in effect with that which supposeth two Goddes I will ioyne with you in it that the transgressyons of the law in the tyme of the gospell oughte rather to be seuerelyer punyshed then they were vnder the law for as muche as the knowledge is greater and the aboundance of the spirite of God whereby the lawes are kept is more plentifull then vnder the lawe At this tyme I will content me with the place of Zach. which prophesying of the kingdome of Christe and of the tyme of the gospell sayth that then the father and mother of the false Prophet shall cause theyr owne sonne to bee put to deathe It is as absurde which is brought to proue that the papistes whiche worshippe God falsly doe not faulte so haynously as the Israelites dyd which worshipped the Idolles As who shoulde saye the Iewes or any other the grossest idolaters that euer were dyd euer take those thinges which they worshipped Serpentes Oxen Fire Water c. to be God or knew not the Images before which they fell downe were Woode or Stone Siluer and Gold. And who knoweth not that they thought that they worshipped by them and in them the God which made heauen earth The Iewes when they molted a golden calfe and fell downe before it did neuer thinke that to be God * but sayde that they wold kepe holy day to the Lord Iehouah Wherein I will put you ouer to the learned treatises of the godly new wryters which do refute this distinction being brought of the papistes as a shift to proue that the Idolatrie which is forbidden in the olde Testament toucheth not them because they worship God by these things and the idolatrous Iewes and infidels worshipped nothing else nor loked at nothing else thē the bare things before which they fell down Which selfe same distinction you bring to proue that papistrie is not so detestable as the idolatrie of the Iewes It may be that certayne of the Gentiles worshipped by their images Iupiter and Iuno c. but you can not shew that the Israelites euer worshipped any other God then the true God so that their fault was only in that they worshipped him otherwise then he had appoynted And the Gentiles that worshipped many Gods worshipped one as the head and cheefe and the rest as small companions and as they termed them minorum gentium deos as the papistes doe God as the cheefe and the sainctes as other petie gods And here all men may see what a good proctor you be for the papistes bothe in lestning their faultes and abating their punishments and yet will not I saye that you are conspired with them or haue receiued your see of them But if you can shew where or in what one poynt those that you charge with confederacie haue layde so softe pillowes vnder their heades as these are they refuse not to be called confederate and conspired with the papistes To the next section in the. 40. page WHat should become of the people in the meane season whilest they learne their Catechisme and when they haue learned it they are no more fitte to be Ministers and to teach other then he that hath learned his Accidence is meete to set vp a schole And it can not be defended but it was a grosse ouer sight to enioyne ministers to learne a Catechisme It were much to compel them to read it And if a man would haue declamed agaynst the ignoraunce of the most part of the ministers three whole dayes together he could not haue sayde more against them then that Canon which sendeth them to their A. B. C. and principles of their religion How know you that they quote the Catechisme in the margent in derision is there any sillable or letter that soundeth that wayes if you coniecture it because they haue set it in the margent you may as well say that they likewise quote the scriptures in derision being also placed there But how followeth this it is meete that ministers shoulde learne euerye day therefore it is meete they be enioyned to learne Cathechismes it is meete they shoulde reade Cathechismes therefore meete to learne them and be enioyned to learne them is there nothing worthyer the learning and profession of the minister then to learne Cathechismes or dothe a manne learne those thinges alwayes which he readeth dothe he not reade thinges some tyme to record the things that he hath learned For because they say it is not meete that ministers should be enioyned to learne a Cathechisme you conclude of their wordes that they would not haue a minister to learne or to reade any thing which is as farre from their meaning or wordes eyther as you are from the reasonable and vpright expounding of them To the two next sections in the. 41. and. 42. page IT hath bene likewise shewed what was in that election extraordinarie and what pertayneth to the ordinarie callings And in the .vj. of the Actes it was shewed that if the Deacons shoulde not be thrust vppon the congregation agaynst the will of it muche lesse ought the minister And if that congregation had by the commaundement of the Apostles an interest in the choyse of their gouernoures I see not why the same commaundement remayneth not to be followed of other churches Your reasons wherewith you would make difference shal be after considered The Answere to the next section being the 43. page and vntill I adde which is in the 44. page VNto these places of the first and sixthe of the Actes is added first the place of the fourtenth of the Actes where the authors of the admonition do proue that the election ought not to be in one man hys hand but ought to be made by the churche agaynst which M. Doctor taketh three exceptions The first is for that it is sayde that Paule and Barnabas ordayned Elders whereby he would conclude that the congregations had nothing to doe But how siender a reason that is it may be considered of infinite
places in the scripture whereof I will recite two or three In the fifthe Chapter of Iosua it is sayde that Iosua made him sharpe kniues for the circumcising of the children of Israell and a little after that Iosua circumcised them Shall we now vppon these wordes conclude that Iosua dyd make the kniues himselfe or was a cutler or being made to hys hande dyd whet them and sharpen them or shall we say that he dyd circumcise the children of Israell in his owne person and hym selfe alone when as that was done by many and by the Leuites to whome that offyce appertayned no but the scripture declareth that Iosua procured sharpe kniues to be made and exhorted and commaunded the people to be circumcised In Exodus it is sayde that Moses dyd appoynt vnto the people Princes Captayne 's ouer thousandes and hundrethes c. And if any conclude thereuppon that hee dyd it him selfe alone hee is by and by confuted by that whiche is wrytten in Deuteronomie where it appeareth that the people dyd chuse them and presented them to Moises What is it then that is sayde in Exodus that Moises appoynted them but that Moyses assembled the people and exhorted them to appoynt rulers and tolde them what manner of men they should be and in a worde sate as it were moderatour in that election To come to the newe Testament In the Actes it is sayde that Paule and Timothe delyuered vnto the churches the orders and decrees of the Apostles and elders and yet it appeareth in another place that the Church had also to doe and gaue their consent vnto the making of those decrees so that the former place meaneth that the Apostles and Elders dyd goe before and were the cheefe and directors of that action The same manner of speach is vsed of the Romane stories wherein it is sayd that the Consull dyd make Magistrates for because that he gathered the assembly and voyces whereby they were made and so S. Luke sayth heere that Paul and Barnabas ordayned because they being the moderators of the Election caused it to be made assembled the churches tolde them of the necessitie of hauing good pastors and gouernors gathered the voices tooke heede that nothing should be done lightly nothing tumultuously or out of order And so to conclude it is an euill reason to say as M. Doctor doth that because S. Luke hath that Paule and Barnabas ordayned therefore the people were excluded And I maruell with what conscience he coulde answere so in thys place especially where it is forthwith added that they ordayned them by the suffrages and voices of the church But you say that the Greeke worde cheirotonein is by the common opinion of almost all Ecclesiasticall writers vsed in the scripture for the solemne maner of ordaining of ministers by the imposition of hands which is the second exception you take to this reason Wherin but that I haue promised to holde my selfe to the matter and that these bolde asseuerances in matters most vntrue are so common that if I should euery fote pursue them I should weary my selfe and all others I coulde not keepe my selfe from running out to maruell at such high speaches voide of truthe First where you say that some translation hath that they ordained ministers wythout making mention of election what haue you gained therby when I can shew mo that translate it otherwise and say it is that they ordained by election or voices or suffrages I had not the commoditye of bookes wherby I coulde see the iudgement of all Ecclesiasticall wryters But of those whych I had I finde that there was but one only M. Gualter of that minde and yet he dothe not shut out the peoples consent in the election Master Caluin M. Beza M. Bullinger M. Musculus M. Brentius he that translated Chrysostome vppon that place Erasmus in his Paraphrases vpon that place are of the contrary iudgement of whose iudgement I would not haue spoken if you woulde not haue gone about thus to abuse youre reader wyth suche manifest vntruthes to ouerthrow the order which God hath established But let all authorities of men go and let vs examine the thing in it self If so be that the holy ghust had ment the solemne putting on of the handes vpon the heades of him that was created elder and minister had he not words enough to vtter this hys meaning would he haue for laying on of hands vsed a word that signifieth lifting vp of hands would he haue vsed a word signifying holding vp for laying downe for when the hands are layd of the head of an other they are layd downe and not holden vp There are words in the olde Testament and in the newe before S. Luke wrote and after he wrote to expres thys ceremony of laying on of hands and yet none haue euer expressed thys S. Paule speaketh thrise of it in his Epistles to Timothe and alwayes he vseth epithesis ton cheiron In the old Testament where thys ceremonie is vsed and spoken of the Septuaginta did neuer translate cheirotonein But as the wryters of the newe Testament epithesis cheiron And what should I stande in thys when as S. Luke him selfe bothe before and after speaking of that ceremony of laying on of hands doth neuer vse this word cheirotonein but the same word whych s Paule vseth and the Septuaginta and although the holy ghost speake properly and wel by whomsoeuer he speaketh yet it could haue ben worst of all sayd by S. Luke of all the Canonicall wryters that he should speake thus vnproperly who of them all wryteth moste purely and elegantly according to the phrase of the moste eloquent Grecians and therfore he borowed this speache of the auncient Greeke wryters whych did vse to expres their elections by thys worde because they were made and voyces geuen by thys Ceremonie of lifting vp of handes But what if S. Luke haue vsed thys worde before and in thys booke in the signification of chusing by voyce dare you then say that he vseth it heere for putting on of hands In the Actes S. Peter sayeth that Christ after hys resurrection appeared not vnto the whole people but vnto those whom he had before chosen by his voyce to be hys witnesses he vseth thys word procecheirotonemenous Nowe if you will say heere that it is to be turned those of whome he layd his handes I will aske you where you read that euer he layd his handes of their heads I will shewe you where he did by hys heauenly voyce appoynt thē And I thinke you are not able to shew in any Greeke author auncient which men do take to be autenticall to teache the propertie or eloquence of the Greeke tongue I meane which were before S. Luke his time where the worde cheirotonein is taken for the laying on of hands of the head of any Thys I confesse that the Greeke Ecclesiasticall wryters haue sometimes vsed it so but you
muste remember that S. Luke coulde not learne to speake of them that came two or three hundreth yeares after him but he borrowed thys phrase of speache of those that were before him and therfore speaketh of elections as they did So that you see thys shift will not serue Let vs therfore see your third whych is that although the Churches consent was then required yet is it not nowe and that it is no general rule no more then say you that all things should be therfore common now because they were in the Apostles time The authors of the Admonition wyth their fauourers muste be counted Anabaptists no one word being shewed whych tendeth thervnto you must accuse them whych confirme that foundation whereof they build their communitie of all things whych is one of their cheefe heresies If I shoulde saye nowe that you are like to those that rowe in a boate whych although they loke backwards yet they thrust a nother way I should speake with more likelihode thē you haue done For althoughe you make a countenaunce and speake hotely against Anabaptistes yet in deede you strengthen their handes wyth reasons But I will not say so neither doe I thinke that you fauoure that secte but only the whirlewinde and tempest of your affection bent to maintaine this estate whereby you haue so great honoure and wealth driueth you vpon these rocks to wracke your selfe on and others For I pray you what communitie is spoken of either in the second thirde or fourth of the Actes whych ought not to be in the church as long as the world standeth was there any communitie but as touching the vse and so farre for the as the pore brethren had neede of and not to take euery man a like was it not in any man his power to sell his houses or landes or not to sell them When he had solde them was it not in euery man his libertie to keepe the money to hymselfe at his pleasure and all they that were of the Church did not sell their possessions but those whose heartes the Lord touched singularly wyth the compassion of the neede of others and whome God had blessed wyth aboundance that they had to serue them selues and helpe others and therefore it is reckened as a rare example that * Barnabas the Cyprian and Leuite did sel hys possessions and brought the price to the feete of the Apostles And as for Ananias Saphira they were not punished for because they brought not the price of their possessions to the Apostles but because they lyed saying that they had brought the whole when they had brought but parte And to be shorte is there any more done there then S. Paule prescribeth to the Corinthians and in them to all churches to the worldes end After he had exhorted to liberalitie towardes the pore churche in Ierusalem not sayth he that other should be releeued and you oppressed but vpon like condition at this time your aboundance supplieth their lacke that also their aboundance maye be for youre lacke that there might be equalitie as it is wrytten he that gathered much had nothing ouer and he that gathered little had not the les Surely it were better you were no Doctor in the Churche then that the Anabaptistes should haue suche holde to bring in their communitie as you geue them In summe the Apostolike communitie or the Churches in their time was not Anabaptisticall Vnto the place of the seconde Epistle to the Corinthians and. 8. chapter you aske what maketh that to the election of the ministers but why doe not you say heere as you did in the other place that the apostle meaneth nothing els but the putting on of the handes of them whych ordained for the same worde cheirotonetheis is heere vsed that was there and this place dothe manifestly and wythout all contradiction conuince your vaine signification that you make of it in the other place and the vntruthe saying that the scripture vseth thys woorde for a solemne manner of ordering ministers by putting on of handes For heere it is sayde that he that was ioyned wyth Paule was cheirotonetheis by the church and it is manifest that the imposition of hands was not by the church people but by the elders and ministers as it appeareth in s Paule to Timothe Now to come to that which you make so light of for say you how foloweth this the church chose Luke or Barnabas to be cōpanion of Paule his iourney Ergo the churches must chuse their ministers It followeth very well for if it were thought◠meete that Saynte Paule shoulde not chuse hym selfe of hys owne authoritie a companion to helpe hym being an Apostle is there any archbyshoppe that shall dare take vppon him to make a minister of the gospell being so many degrees bothe in authoritie and in all giftes needefull to discerne and trye oute or take knowledge of a sufficient minister of the gospell inferioure to S. Paule And if S. Paule woulde haue the authoritye of the churche to ordaine the Minister that shoulde ayde hym in other places for the gathering of reliefe of the poore Churches howe muche more did he thincke it meete that the Churches shoulde chuse their owne Minister whych should gouerne them Which things may be also sayde of the election in the first of the Actes for there the Churche firste chose two whereof one shoulde be an Apostle whych shoulde not be Minister of that Church but should be sent into all the world So that alwayes the Apostles haue shunned to do any thing of their owne willes without the knowledge eyther of those churches where they instituted any gouernors or if it were for the behofe of those places where there were no churches gathered yet would they ordaine none but by the consent of some other churche whych was already established You will not deny but that in the Apostles time and S. Cyprians time in many places the consent of the people was required shewe any one place where it was not Dothe not S. Luke say that it was done churche by churche that is in euery churche And where you say it endured but to S. Cyprians time it shall appeare to all men that it endured in the churche a thousande yeare and more after hys time And it appeareth in that he vsed it not as a thing indifferent but necessary and argueth the necessitye of it of the place of the first of the Acts which is alleaged by the authors of the Admonition and so they are not their argumentes that you throwe vp so scornefully saying how followeth this and this what proueth it but Cyprians whome by their sides you thrust throughe and so vnreuerently handle But you say these examples are no generall rules Examples of all the Apostles in all churches and in all purer times vncontrolied and vnretracted eyther by any the primitiue and purer churches or by any rule of the scripture I thinke ought to stand If
it were a priuate example of one or in one place alone or if it were countermaunded by any other rule of the scripture then the example were not alwayes safe to follow But what if there bee commaundement also In the booke of Numbers the Lorde commaundeth that the Leuites which preached the word of God to the people in their seuerall congregations shoulde be brought before the Lorde and before the people and the people should lay theyr handes vppon the Leuites heades which what other thing is it then to declare their lyking of them and by that ceremony to consecrate them and set them aparte for that vse of their ministerie And if you say that it were a disorder that all shoulde lay on their handes I graunt you but so he speaketh because the approbatiō was by all and some in the name of the rest declared that by their laying on of handes But me thinketh I heare your olde answere that this pertaineth not vnto vs being a thing done vnder the law but take heede what you say for if you wil admit neyther the generall examples of the newe Testament nor the commaundements and examples of the Olde take heede that you do not or euer you be aware spoile vs of the cheefe and principall pillers and buttresses of our religion and bring vs to plaine Catabaptistrie whych you say you are so afraid of For to proue the Baptisme of children and yong infantes what stronger holde haue we then that God commaunded in the old Testament the they should be circumcised and examples thereof in the newe Testament for that the Apostles baptised whole families wherby all likelyhode there were children Now we saye that there is thys commaundement in the olde Testament of the ministers and there are examples in the newe Testament generall and through out why shuld it not then be necessary in this as wel as in the other Besides that in the. 6. of the Actes the Apostles commaund that the church should seke them out Deacons whome they might appoynt ouer the poore Touching certaine Ceremonies I haue shewed that they are necessarye as namely the Sacraments And as for Discipline and gouernment I haue shewed partly and more heereafter will be shewed that they are of the substance of the gospell if to haue Excommunication be to haue Discipline or if to haue pastors or Byshops and Doctors and Deacons be gouernment of the Churche You say that howsoeuer in the Apostles time thys vse was of hauing the consent of the church in the choise of their pastor or byshop nowe in thys estate it were moste pernicious and hurtfull Wherin see how vnaduisedly you condemne the churches of Geneua of all Fraunce of certaine of the Germaine churches which keepe thys order But you alledge your reasons therefore those those are to be considered because they come so rare For your manner is that if you can haue but one wryter newe or olde of your side or whych seemeth to be of your side you runne away wyth the matter as though you had scripture reason doctors and all I will therefore then take a viewe of your reasons when as I shall haue breefely set downe those reasons wherby the perpetuall equitie reasonablenes and conueniencie of thys order that the church should haue a stroke in her ministers election may appeare It is sayd amongst the Lawyers and in deede reason which is the law of all nations confirmeth it Quod omnium interest ab omnibus approbari debet That whych standeth all men vpon should be approued of all men Which lawe hath this sense that if it may be it were good that those things whych shall binde all men and whych require the obedience of all shoulde be concluded as farre as may be by the consent of all or at least by the consent of as many as may be gotten And therfore it draweth much the obedience of the subiectes of thys realme that the statutes whereby the realme is gouerned passe by the consent of the moste parte of it whilest they be made by them whome the rest put in trust and chuse for that purpose being as it were all their actes So is it also when the question is to chuse the magistrate Mayor or bailiffe or Constable of euery towne whych things if they haue good groundes in ciuill affaires they haue much better in Ecclesiasticall For it is much more vnreasonable that there should be thrust vpon me a gouernoure of whom the euerlasting saluation or damnation both of my body and soule doth depend then him of whome my wealth and commoditye of thys life doth hang. Onles those vpon whome he were thrust were fooles or madde men or children wythout all discretion of ordering them selues whych as I will shewe can not agree wyth those that are the church of god and are to haue a pastor For they of the church of God although they be called sheepe in respect of their simplicitye and harmelesnes yet are they also for their circumspection wise as serpents in the wisdom especially whych is to saluation and how vile accompt so euer you wil make of of them they are the people of God and therfore spirituall and forthwith those of whome S. Paule sayth the spirituall man discerneth all thyngs Moreouer reason and experience teacheth that it maketh muche to the profiting of the church vnder the hande of the pastor or bishop that the churche loue him and reuerence him For the contempt and hatred of the minister for the most parte standeth not in hys owne person but reacheth euen vnto the doctrine whych he teacheth But the minister that the churche desireth it commonly best loueth and moste reuerenceth and of the other side hateth and contemneth hym that is thrust vpon them therfore it maketh muche to the profiting of the people in the doctrine of the gospell that the minister come in by their consent Likewise the people must by S. Paule hys rule folowe the good example of the minister but men will not likely folowe their examples whome they loue not nor loue them whych are thrust vpon them against their willes therfore it standeth wyth the good conuersation and godlye folowing of the steppes of the minister that he be wyth the consent of the Churche And if it should happen whych may come to passe that any church should desire or chuse or consent vpon by the most part some that is vnmete eyther for doctrine or manners then the ministers and elders of the other churches rounde about should aduertise first and afterward as occasion should serue sharply and seuerely charge that they forbeare suche election or if it be made that they confirme it not by suffering him to exercise any ministerie And if eyther the churches round about do faile of this duety or the church whych is admonished rest not in their Admonition then to bring it to the nexte Synode and if it rest not therin then the Prince or Magistrate whych must see
wemen shoulde haue their voyces whiche is vnseemely all men vnderstand that where the election is most freest and most generall yet only they haue to doe which are heades of families and that thys is but a meere cauill to bring the truth in hatred which is vnworthy to be answered requireth rather a Censor then a Disputer to suppresse it To the. 47. and. 48. pages THe reason is of greater force then you woulde seeme to make it for as the twelueth place was to Mathias so is a certayne churche vnto a pastor or mynister and as the Apostles ordayned none vnto that place before it was voyde so ought not the Byshoppe ordayne anye vntill there be a churche voyde and destitute of a pastor And as the Apostles ordayned not any Apostle further then they had testimonie of the worde of God as it appeareth that S. Peter proceedeth by that rule to the election so ought no byshop ordayne anye to anye function which is not in the scripture appoynted but there are by the worde of God at thys time no ordinarie ministeries ecclesiasticall which be not locall and tyed to one congregation therefore thys sending abrode of ministers which haue no places is vnlawfull And that it may the better appeare that those functions doe only remayne which are appoynted to one certayne place and that the reader may haue the clearer and playner vnderstanding of all this matter all the whole ecclesiasticall function may be well deuided first into extraordinarie or those that endured for a time and into ordinarie which are perpetuall Of the first sorte are the Apostles and Euangelistes which the Lord vsed for a tyme as it were for cheefe masons and principall builders of his church as well to lay the foundations of churches where none were as also to aduaunce them to such forwardnesse and heighte vntill there mighte be gotten for the finishing of the building and house of the Church fitte pastors elders and deacons And that being done they went from those places into others which thing may be perceiued by the continuall storie of the Actes of the Apostles and by diuers sentences which are found in the Epistles of S. Paule And therefore also when the churches haue beene by antichrist euen rased from the foundations God hathe stirred vp Euangelistes euen immediatly by this spirite without any calling of men to restore hys churches agayne of whiche sorte was Maister Wickliffe in our Countrie Maister Hus and Ierome of Prage in Bohemia Luther and ♉ winglius in Germanie c. And after thys sorte God maye at hys good pleasure worke when hee purposeth to set in hys gospell in anye nation where the whole face of the earth is couered wyth the darckenesse of ignoraunce and wante of the knowledge of God. Of this sort of extraordinary functions are the Prophetes also which besides a singular dexteritie and readines of expounding the scriptures had also the gift of telling things to come which because it is not now ordinarily I thincke there is none wildeny but it is an extraordinary calling For the other two of the Apostles and Euangelistes it shall appeare more at large hereafter by occasion geuen by maister Doctor that they are but for a tune The ordinary continual functions of the church are also deuided into two partes for eyther they are they that gouerne or take charge of the whole church as are those which are called elders or they which take charge of one part of the Churche which is the poore of euery church as are those which are called deacons Those agayne that are presbyteri which we terme elders of the church and haue to do with the whole church are eyther those which teache and preach the word of God and gouerne so or else which gouerne only and do not teach nor preach Of the first kinde are pastors doctore Of the second are those which are called by the cōmon name of elders or auncients Of all this ordinary function I shall haue occasion to speake and of euery one shall appeare that which I haue sayd before that they are no vncertaine and vndefunte ministeries but such as are limited vnto a certaine churche and congregation And first of all for the pastor or byshoppe whych is heere mentioned whych name so euer we consider of them they do forthwith as sone as they are once either spoken or thought of imply and infer a certen and definite charge being as the Logicians terme them actuall relatiues For what shepheard can there be vnles he haue a flocke and howe can he be a watchman vnles he haue some citie to loke vnto Or how can a man be a master onles he haue a seruaunt Or a father vnles he haue a childe Nowe if you will say that they haue a charge and they haue flockes and cities to attende and watche vppon for a wholo shire or prouince or realme are their flockes and their cities and their charges First of all in your reading ministers that is vntrue for they goe not to reade in all churches but tary vntill they be hired in one And therfore when the Bishop hath laide hys hand of them they are no more ministers then before hys hund came vpon them because they haue no charges and therfore the patrone or person that hireth them to read and setteth them a worke are their byshops and make them ministers and not the Bishop of the diocese Secondarily for those that preache to haue a whole diocese or prouince or realme to be their flocke or citie to attend vpon is contrary to the pollicy or good husbandrye of all those that woulde eyther haue their citie safe or their flockes sound For who are they whych would appoynt one for the watch of a thousand townes or cities when as all they whych loue their safetye woulde rather haue for euery citye many watchmen then for many cities one or what is he that is so watchfull and circumspect whose diligence and watchfulnes one citye assaulted wyth ennemies will not wholely occupy and take vp or what is he whose sight is so sharpe that he can see from one ende of the diocese or prouince or realme to the other ende thereof or what is he that will commit the keeping of .xx. M. sheepe to one man that loketh for any good or encrease of them howe shall all these heare hys whistle howe shall all knowe his voyce when they can not heare it how shall they acknowledge hym when they can not knowe hym howe shall they folowe him when they can not see him goe before howe shall he heale their diseases when he can not possibly know them But some man wil say that these are humaine reasons and likelyhodes whych maye be ouerthrowne wyth other similitudes These notwithstanding are Analogies drawne from the nature of those things whych the ministers are likened vnto and are of the moste parte vsed of the holy Ghoste hym selfe expresly But that there be no
good common wealthes wherein many haue lyke power and authoritie And further if because there is one king in a lande aboue all he will conclude there should be one archbyshop ouer all I say as I haue sayde that it is not agaynst any word of God which I know although it be inconuenient but that there may be one Cesar ouer all the world and yet I thinke M. Doctor will not say that there may be one archbyshop ouer all the world Now M. Doctor commeth to hys olde hole where he woulde fayne hyde hym selfe and with hym all the ambition tyranny and excesse of authoritie which is ioyned wyth these functions of archbyshoppe and byshoppe as they are now vsed and thys hys hole is that all the mynisters are equall with byshops and archbyshops as touching the mynisterie of the worde and sacramentes but not as touching pollicie and gouernment The papistes vse the very selfe same distinction for the mayntenance of the Popes tyranny and ambytion and other their hierarchie Maister Doctor hath put out the marke and conceled the name of the papistes and so with a little chaunge of wordes as it were with certayne new coloures he woulde deceiue vs For the papistes saye that euery syr Iohn or hedge priest hath as great authoritie to sacrifice and offer for the quicke and the dead and to mynister the sacramentes as the Pope of Rome hath but for gouernment and for order the byshoppe is aboue a priest the archbyshoppe aboue a byshoppe and the Pope aboue them all But I haue declared before out of the scriptures how vayne a distinction it is and it appeareth out of Cyprian that as all the byshops were equall one to an other so he sayth that to euery one was geuen a portion of the Lordes flocke not only to feede with the worde and sacramentes but to rule and gouerne not as they which shall make any accoumpte vnto an archbyshop or be iudged of hym but as they which can not bee iudged of any but of god And Ierome vpon Titus sayeth that the elder or mynister dyd gouerne and rule in common with the byshops the churche whereof he was elder or mynister After followeth M. Caluin a great patrone forsoth of the archbyshop or of thys kynde of byshop which is vsed amongst vs heere in Englande And heere to passe ouer your straunge cytations and quotations which you make to put your answerer to payne sending hym sometymes to Musculus common places for one sentence to Augustines workes to Chrysostomes workes to Cyrill to Maister Foxe and heere sending hym to the viij chapter of the institutions as though you had neuer red Caluins institutions but tooke the sentence of some bodye else withoute anye examination whereby it seemeth that you were lothe that euer any man should answere your booke letting I say all thys passe what maketh thys eyther to proue that there shoulde bee one archbyshoppe ouer all the mynisters in the prouince or one byshoppe ouer all in the diocese that amongst twelue that were gathered together into one place there was one which ruled the action for which they mette And that it may appeare what superioritie it is which is lawfull amongst the mynisters and what it is that M. Caluin speaketh of what also the fathers and councels doe meane when they geue more to the byshoppe of any one church then to the elder of the same church and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the rest to fancie any such authoritie and domination or Lordship as we see vsed in our church it is to be vnderstanded that amongst the pastors elders and deacons of euery particulare church and in the meetinges and companies of the mynisters or elders of dyuers churches there was one chosen by the voyces and suffrages of them all or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishmentes and censures to be decreed vpon those which had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was geuen to entreate of the which also gathered the voyces and reasons of those which had interest to speake in such cases whiche also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were geuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonishe or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receiue admonishment consolation or rebuke and which in a worde dyd moderate that whole action which was done for the time they were assembled which thing we do not deny may be but affirme that it is fitte necessary to be to the auoyding of confusion For it were an absurde hearing that many should at once attempt to speake neyther coulde it be done without great reproch that many men beginning to speake some should be bidden to holde their peace which would come to passe if there should be no order kept nor none to appoynt when euery one should speake or not to put them to silence when they attempted confusedly to speake and out of order Moreouer when many ministers mete together and in so great dyuersitie of giftes as the Lorde hath geuen to hys church there be founde that excell in memory facilitie of tong and expedition or quicknesse to dispatche matters more then the rest and therefore it is fitt that the brethren that haue that dexteritie shoulde especially be preferred vnto thys office that the action may be the better and more spedely made an ende of And if any man will call thys a rule or presidentship and hym that executeth thys office a president or moderator or a gouernour we will not striue so that it be with these cautions that he be not called simply gouernor or moderator but gouernor or moderator of that action and for that time and subiect to the orders that others be to be censured by the company of the brethren as wel as others if he be iudged any way faulty And that after that action ended meeting dissolued he sitte hym downe in hys olde place and set hym selfe in equall estate with the rest of the ministers Thirdly that thys gouernment or presidentship or what so euer lyke name you will geue it be not so tyed vnto that minister but that at the next meeting it shall be lawfull to take an other if an other bee thought meeter Of thys order and pollicy of the church if we will see a liuely image and perfect paterne let vs set before our eyes the most auncient and gospel like church that euer was or shall be In the actes the church being gathered together for the election of an Apostle into the place of Iudas the traytor when as the interest of election belonged vnto all and to the apostles especially aboue the rest out of the whole company Peter riseth vp telleth the cause of their comming together with what cautions and qualities they ought to
that in his garden he shall neuer finde the herbe that wil heale him And because that the scriptures when they make for our cause receiue this answer commonly that they serued but for the apostles times and M. Caluins authority will wey nothing as I thinke wyth M. Doctor when he is alledged by vs against hym I wil send hym to the Greke Scholiaste whych vpon this place of Titus sayth after this sort He would not speaking of s Paule haue the whole I le of Crete ministred and gouerned by one but that euery one should haue hys proper charge and care for so should Titus haue a lighter labor and the people that are gouerned should enioy greater attendance of the pastor whilest he that teacheth them doth not run about the gouernment of many congregations but attendeth vnto one and garnisheth that Now M. Doctor may see by this that Titus by the iudgement of the Scholiaste was not as he fansieth the archbyshop of all Crete but that he had one flocke whervpon for the time he was there he attended And that where it is sayd he ordained ministers it is nothing else but that he was the cheefe and the moderator in the election of the ministers as I haue declared before by many examples And it is no maruell although the rest graunted hym thys preheminence when he had both most excellent gifts and was a degree aboue the pastors being an Euangelist Vnto the place of Timothe where he willeth him not to admit an accusation against an elder vnder two or three witnesses I answer as I haue done before to the place of Titus that is that as the ordination of the pastors is attributed vnto Titus and Timothe because they gouerned and moderated that action and were the first in it so also is the deposing or other censures of them and that for as much as he wryteth hys epistles vnto Timothe Titus he telleth them how they should behaue them selues in their office and doth not shut out other from this censure and iudgement And it is more agreable to the inscription of the epistles that he should say admit not thou or ordain not thou wryting vnto one then if he should say ordaine not ye or admit not ye as if he should wryte to many for so should neyther the ending agree wyth the beginning nor the midst wyth them both And if this be a good rule that because Paul biddeth Timothe and Titus to iudge of the faults of the pastors and to ordain pastors therfore none else did but they Then whereas S. Paule biddeth Timothe that he should commaund teach that godlines is profitable to all things admonisheth him to be an example of the whole flocke by your reason he wil haue no other of the mynisters of Ephesus or of the I le of Creta to teach that doctrine or to be examples to their flockes an hundreth such things in the Epistles of Timothe and Titus which although they be there particularly directed vnto Timothe and Titus yet do they agree are common to them with all other mynisters yea sometimes vnto the whole flocke As for Epiphanius it is knowne of what authoritie he is in this place when as by Aerius sides he goeth about to pricke at the Apostle whilest he goeth about to confute the Apostle which maketh a distinction and difference betwene those which the Apostle maketh one that is a byshop and an elder and to spare the credite of Epiphanius it were better lay that opinion vpon some Pseudepiphanius that is to say counterfaite which we may do not without great probabilitie seeing Augustine sayth that the true Epiphanius vttereth all after a story fashion and doth not vse any disputation or reasoning for the truth agaynst the falshode and thys Epiphanius is very full of argumentes and reasons the choyse whereof M. Doctor hath taken And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose Caluin and other godly wryters to proue that the mynister is vnderstanded by the word elder or presbiter he keepeth hys olde wont by bringing stickes into the woode and prouing alwayes that which no man denyeth and yet with the mynister of the word he also vnderstandeth the elder of the church which ruleth and doth not labor in the word But therein is not the matter for I doe graunt that by presbiter the mynister of the word is vnderstanded yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would so fayne proue It is no maruell although you take vp the authors of the admonition for want of logicke for you vtter great skill your selfe in wryting which keepe no order but confound your reader in that thing which euen the common logicke of the countrey which is reason might haue directed you in For what a confusion of times is thys to begin with Cyprian and then come to Ierome and Chrysostome and after to the scripture and backe agayne to Ignatius that was before Cyprian which times are ill disposed of you and that in a matter wherein it stode you vpon to haue obserued the order of the tymes But as for Ignatius place it is sufficiently answered before in that which was answered to Cyprian hys place for when he sayth the byshop hath rule ouer all he meaneth no more all in the prouince then in all the worlde but meaneth that flocke congregation whereof he is byshop or mynister And when he calleth hym prince of the priestes although the title be to excessiue and bigge condemned by Cyprian and the councell of Carthage yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the diocese as we take it or of the prouince then he meaneth the Prince of all the priestes in the world but those fellow mynisters and elders that had the rule and gouernment of that particulare church and congregation whereof he was byshop as the great churches haue for the most part both elders which gouerne only and mynisters also to ayde one an other and the principalitie that hee which they called the byshop had ouer the rest hath bene before at large declared But M. Doctor doth not remember that whilest hee thus reasoneth for the authoritie of the byshoppe hee ouerthroweth hys archbyshoppe quite and cleane for Ignatius will haue none aboue the byshop but Christ and hee will haue an archbyshop I see a man can not well serue two maisters but eyther he must displease the one and please the other or by pleasing of one offend the other For M. Doctor would fayne please and vpholde both and yet hys proufes are such that euery prop that he setteth vnder one is an axe to strike at the other But that M. D. delyteth alwayes wher he might fetch at the fountaine to be raking in ditches he needed not to haue gone to Iustin Martyr for Proestos when as S. Paule calleth the mynisters Elders by thys title And if thys place of Iustin make for an archbyshop then in stead of an archbyshop in euery prouince we
of the learned doth thereby declare that it is not suffycient that he be well instructed in the mystery of saluation but that he haue also the gift of vtterance Afterwarde M. Doctor asketh whether S. Paule dyd not preache to the Romaines when he wrote vnto them No forsooth hys wryting to the Romaines was no more preaching then S. Paules hand or hys penne which were hys instrumentes to wryte with were hys tongue or hys lyghtes or any other partes which were hys instrumentes to speake with And S. Paule hym selfe wryting to the Romaines putteth a difference betwene hys wryting hys preaching when although he wrote vnto them yet he excuseth hym selfe that he could not come to preach vnto them saying that he was ready as much as lay in hym to preach vnto them But sayeth he was not the reading of Deuteronomie preaching No more then the reading of Erodus Heere be good proufes It is generally denyed that reading is preaching and Mayster Doctoure without any proufe taketh it for graunted that the reading of Deuteronomie is preaching All men see how pityfull reasons these be And in the. 162. page he alledgeth that in the Actes S. Luke seemeth to meane by reading preaching But what dealing is thys vpon a seeming and coniecture to set down so certenly and vndoubtedly that reading is preaching then there is no one letter nor sillable that vpholdeth any such coniecture For S. Iames sayth that Moyses meaning the law red euery Saboth through out euery towne in the sinagogue was also preached or had those that preached it setting forth the order which was vsed in all the churches amongst the people of God that alwayes when they met vpon the Saboth dayes they had the scriptures first redde and then preached of and expounded which is that the authors of the Admonition doe desire and therefore complayne for that after reading followeth no preaching which any indifferent man may easely vnderstand by that that they say In the olde tyme the worde was preached now it is supposed to be sufficient if it be red But Mayster Doctor heareth with hys left eare and readeth with hys left eye as though hys right eye were pulled out or hys ryght care cut of For otherwyse the other wordes which they haue touching thys matter myght easely haue bene expoūded by the argumēt matter which they handle Of mynistring of the sacramentes in priuate places by women I haue spoken before there remayneth therefore only in thys section to speake of the deacons that they ought not to minister the sacramēt Which although I haue done partly before partly afterward will do when I shall shew that it appertayneth not to them to minister the worde and therefore not the sacramentes being things the mynistery whereof ought not to be seuered yet I will in a worde answere those arguments that M. Doctor bryngeth for to proue that they may mynister the sacramentes Whereof the fyrst is that Phillip in the. 8. of the Acts baptysed There is great doubt amongst wryters which Phillip that was that S. Luke mentioneth in the eyght chapter of the Acts of the Apostles But I graūt him to be y Phillip that was the deacon answeare that he was no deacon then For the church of Ierusalem whereof he was deacon being scattered he could be no more deacon of it or distribute the money that was collected for the poore of the church And further I answeare that he was afterwarde an Euangelist and therefore preached not by vertue of hys deaconshyppe whose calling is not to preache but by that he was an Euangelist whose office put vpon hym a necessitie of preaching After you say that deacons are not permitted with vs to celebrate the Lordes supper and why then shoulde they be suffered to mynister baptisme as if the one sacrament were not as precious as the other Thys is a myserable rending a sonder of those things which God hath ioyned together not only to seperate the mynistery of the sacramentes from the word but also the mynistery of one sacrament from an other And what reason is there that it should be graunted vnto one that can not preach being as they call hym a mynister to mynister both the sacramentes whē as the same is not permitted vnto a deacon as they call hym which is able to preach I doe not speake it for that I woulde haue those which be deacons in deede that is which haue charge to prouide for the poore of some one congregation eyther preach or mynister the sacraments but I say that it is agaynst all reason to permit the mynistery of the sacramentes to those which can not preach to deny it to those which are able to preach In the. 118. page vnto the example of Phillip he addeth S. Stephen which was one of the deacons which he affirmeth to haue preached But I deny it for all that long oration which he hath in the 7. of the Actes is no sermon but a defence of hym selfe agaynst those accusations which were layde agaynst hym as M. Beza doth very learnedly substancially proue in hys annotations vpon those places of S. Stephens disputations defence Now to defend hym selfe being accused is lawfull not for the deacons only but for any other christian we read nothing that Stephen dyd there eyther touching the defence of hys cause or the sharpe rebuking of the obstinate phariseys and priestes but that the holy Martyrs of God which were no deacons nor mynisters haue done with vs when they haue bene conuented before their persecutors And where as he sayth that Philip baptised I haue shewed before by what authoritie he dyd it that is not in that he was a deacon but for that he was an Euangelist He addeth further out of Iustin Martyr that the deacons dyd distribute the bread the wyne in the admynistration of the supper Tullie sayth in a certayne place that it is as great a poynt of wysedome in an aduocate or pleader of causes to holde backe and to keepe close that which is hurtfull to hys cause as it is to speake that which is profitable M. Doctor obserueth none of these poyntes for besydes that the thinges which he brought for the defence of the seruice booke are such as they haue before appeared in seeking to defende it he manyfestly oppugneth it For before he sayde that the booke of seruice doth not permit deacons to mynister the supper of the Lord and that by way of alowing of the booke and here he proueth that the deacons dyd mynister the sacrament of the supper and that also as a thing which he doth alow of But to let that passe I beseech thee good Reader marke what a mynistring of the supper thys is which Iustin maketh mention of note with what conscience M. Doctor handeleth this cause Iustin saith that after the scriptures are red and preached of and prayers made bread and wine water was brought forth
plainly by Ierome whych folowed Ambrose immediatlye who in hys third chapter vpon Esay sayeth that they had also the presbyterie or eldershyp in the church The same myght be shewed by diuers other testimonies whych I omit because that it may appeare by the former treatise touchyng the election of the mynister that thys order of eldershyp continued in the church diuers hundreth yeares after Ambrose tyme euen as long almoste as there was any sound part of the church from the head to the heele Nowe I haue shewed the ignorance it remayneth to shewe howe that eyther M. Doctor was maruellously hym selfe abused or else desyreth to abuse other For if wheras he toke halfe Ambrose sentence he had taken the other halfe wyth hym and had not sodenly stopped hys breath that he should speake no more in steade of a false wytnes agaynst the eldershyp he should haue brought forthe as cleare and as flat a witnes for the proofe of them as a man coulde desire out of an auncient wryter The whole sentence is thys speakyng of thys offyce of the elders although not vpon so good occasyon thus he sayeth Whervpon the sinagoge and after the church had elders wythout whose counsell nothyng was done in the church whych Elders I know not by what neglygence they are worne out onles it be through the slouthfulnes of the doctors or rather throughe theyr pryde whylest they only would seeme to be somewhat Now that I haue shewed the place I wyll say no more I wyl leaue it to M. Doctor to thinke of it in his chamber by hym selfe and so will conclude this question that for so much as thys order is such as wythout whych the principall offices of charity can not be exercysed and that it is that which is commauÌ„ded by the scryptures approued and receyued by all the churches in the Apostles tymes and many hundreth yeares after in the most flouryshing churches bothe in tyme of peace in tyme of persecution and that there are greater causes why it should be in the tyme of peace then in tyme of persecution why rather vnder a christian prince then vnder a tyrant why rather now then in the apostles times that in consyderation of these things the eldershyp is necessary and such an order as the church ought not to be wythout And so also is answeared the third question that for so much as they were church offycers and ouer the people in matters pertayning to God such as watched ouer the soules of men that therfore although they were not pastors to preach the word yet were they no lay men as they terme them but ecclesiasticall persons The rest comprehended in these sections is answeared before being matter whych pertayned vnto the archbyshop Nowe I returne backe agayne to Excommunicacion whych M. Doctor thynketh to be the only disciplyne in the church but he shuld vnderstand that besyde that parte of priuate disciplyne whych is ordinarily and dayly to be exercised by euery one of the pastors elders as Admonition and reprehension there are .iij. princypal parts whych are exercised of them ioyntly and together wherof the first is the election or choyse and the abdication or putting out of Ecclesiasticall officers The second is in excommunication of the stubburne or absolution of the repeÌ„tant The third is the decision of all such matters as doe ryse in the church eyther touchyng corrupt manners or peruerse doctryne As touchyng the election and consequently the throwing out it hath bene shewed before that together wyth the churche the eldershyp hathe the principall sway For the decision of controuersyes wheÌ„ they ryse it may appeare in the. 15. of the Acts that the Presbyterie or Eldershyp of the churche hath to determine of that also Nowe it remayneth heere that whereas M. Doctor sayeth that the Excommunication and consequently the absolution or restoryng to the church agayne doth pertayne only to the minister that I shewe that the Presbyterye or eldership and the whole church also hath interest in the Excommunication and consequently in the absolution or restoryng vnto the churche But heere by the way it is to be noted that in saying that it belongeth to the minister he confesseth the dysorder in our church wherin this power is taken away from the minister and geuen to the byshop and hys offycers Nowe that thys charge of excommunication belongeth not vnto one or to the minyster but cheefely to the eldershyp and pastor it appeareth by that whych the authors of the admonition alledge out of S. Mathewe whych place I haue proued before to be necessarily vnderstaÌ„ded of the elders of the church It is most absurdly sayd of M. doctor in the. 135. page that by the church is vnderstanded eyther my Lordes grace or the byshop of the diocese or the Chancellor or Commissarye And that when a man complayneth vnto one of these he may be well sayd to complayne vnto the church whych is the more vntollerable for that being so straunge a saying and suche as may astonyshe all that heare it he neyther confirmeth it by any reason or lyke phrase of scrypture or by the authority of any godly or approued wryter olde or newe whych notwythstanding he seeketh for so diligently and turneth the commentaries in hys study so painefully when he can haue but one against twentye and but a sillable where he can not haue a sentence It may be the clearlyer vnderstanded that the presbyterie or eldership had the cheefe stroke in this excoÌ„munication if it be obserued that thys was the pollicy and discipline of the Iewes and of the smagogue from whence our sauyoure Christ toke this and translated it vnto this church that when any man had don any thing that they held for a fault that then the same was punished and censured by the Elders of the church according to the quality of the faulte as it maye appeare in S. Mathewe For althoughe it be of some and those very learned expounded of the ciuill iudgement yet for so muche as the Iewes had nothyng to do wyth ciuill iudgements the same being altogyther in the hands of the Romaines and that the word sanâ—drim corrupted of the Greeke worde synedrion whych S. Mathewe vseth is knowen by those that haue skill in the Rabbins and especially the Iewes Talmud to signifye the ecclesiasticall gouernors there can be no doubt but he meaneth the ecclesiasticall censures And if the fault were iudged very great then the sentence of Excommunication was awarded by the same elders as appeareth in S. Iohn And thys was the cause why our sauioure Christe spake so shortly of thys matter in the. 18. of S. Mathew wythout noting the circumstances more at large for that he spake of a thyng whych was well knowne and vsed amongst the Iewes whome he spake vnto And that this was the meaning of our sauioure Christe in those wordes it may appeare by the practise whych is set forthe in the Epistles
Phillippyans and of the Actes for although it be not there sayd that the deacons were in euery church yet for so muche as the same vse of them was in all churches which was in Ierusalem at Philippos and for that the Apostles as hath bene before touched laboring after the vniformitie of the church ordeyned the same officers in all churches the proofe of one is the proofe of all and the shewing that there were deacōs in one church is the shewing in all The place which they alledge out of the first to Timothe is of all other most proper for S. Paule there describing not how the church of Ephesus but simply and generally how the church must be gouerned reckneth there the order of deacons Whereunto may be added the contynuall practise of the church long after the Apostles times which appeareth by the often superscriptions and subscriptions in these words the byshop elders and deacons of such a church and vnto the byshop elders and deacons of such a church And by that it is so often times sayd in the councelles where the churches assembled y there were so many byshops so many elders so many deacons The thirde poynt in thys deaconship is whether it be a necessary office in the church or for a tyme only which controuersy shoulde not haue bene if M. Doctors english tong had bene agreable with hys latin For in a certayne latin pamphlet of hys whereof I spake before he maketh the deaconship a necessary office and such as ought not to be taken out of the church here he singeth a nother song There because he thought the necessitie of the deacon made for hym he wold nedes haue deacons here because it maketh agaynst hym he sayth there is no neede of them wherby appeareth how small cause there is that M. Doctor should vpbrayde the authors of the admonition with mutability and discord with them selues But that thys office is durable and perpetuall it may appeare by that which I haue alledged before out of the sixt of Timothe for the necessitie of elders for the argumentes serue to proue the necessitie of those orders which are there set forth whereof the deacon is one And where as M. Doctor sayth that euery church is not hable to fynde a curate as he termeth hym and a deacon I haue before shewed intreating of the senyors that the churches in the Apostles tymes might best haue sayd thys being poore and persecuted althoughe I see not why the church may not haue a deacon or deacons if moe be needefull with as small charges as they may haue a collector or collectors There remayneth to speake of the widdowes which were godly poore women in the church aboue the age of 60. yeares for the auoyding of all suspition of euill which might rise by slaunderous tonges if they had bene yonger These as they were norished at the charges of the church being poore so dyd they serue the church in attending vpon poore strangers and the poore which were sicke in the church whereof they were widdowes Now although there is not so great vse of these widdowes with vs as there was in those places where the churches were first founded and in that tyme wherein thys order of widdowes was instituted part of the which necessity grew both by the multitude of straungers through the persecution by the great heate of those east countries whereupon the washing supplyng of their feete was required yet for so much as there are poore which are sicke in euery church I doe not see how a better and more conuenient order can be deuised for the attendance of them in their sicknes other infirmities then thys which S. Paule appoynteth that there shuld be if there can be any gotten godly poore widdowes of the age which S. Paule appoynteth which should attend vpon such For if there be any such poore widdowes of that age destitute of all friendes it is manifest that they must needes liue of the charge of the church seing they must nedes do so it is better they shuld do some duety for it vnto the church agayne thē the church should be at a new charge to finde others to attend vpon those which are sicke destitute of keepers seing that there can be none so fit for that purpose as those women which S. Paule doth there describe so that I conclude that if such may be gotten we ought also to kepe that order of widowes in the church still I know y there be lerned men which thinke otherwise but I stand vpon the authoritie of Gods worde and not vppon the opynions of men be they neuer so well learned And if the matter also shoulde be tryed by the iudgement of men I am able to shew the iudgement of as learned as thys age hath brought forth which thinketh that the institution of widdowes is perpetuall and ought to be where it may be had and where such widdowes are founde In deede they are more rare now then in the Apostles tymes For then by reason of the persecution those which had the gift of continency dyd abstayne from mariage after the death of their husbandes for that the sole lyfe was an easyer estate and lesse daungerous and chargeable when they were driuen to flye then the estate of those which were maryed Vnto all the rest vntill the ende of the first part of the admonition I haue answered alredy Yet there is a poynt or two which I must touch wherof the first is in the. 126. page where he would beare men in hand that the authors of the admonition and some other of theyr mynde would shut out the cyuill magistrate and the Prince from all authoritie in Ecclesiastical matters which surmise although I see it is not so much because eyther he knoweth or suspecteth any such thing as because he meaneth heereby to lay a bayte to entrappe with all thinking that where he maketh no conscience to geue he careth not what authority to Princes we will be loth to geue more then the word of God will permit wherby he hopeth to draw vs into displeasure with the Prince yet for because he shall vnderstande we norish no opynions secretly which we are ashamed to declare openly and for that we doubt not of the equitie of the prince in thys part which knoweth that although her authoritie be the greatest in the earth yet it is not infinite but is lymitted by the word of God and of whome we are perswaded that as her maiesty knoweth so shee will not vnwillingly heare the truth in thys behalfe these things I say being considered I answere in the name of the authors of the admonition and those some other which you speake of that the Prince and cyuill magistrate hath to see that the lawes of God touching hys worshippe and touching all matters and orders of the church be executed dewly obserued to se that euery Ecclesiasticall person do that office whereunto he is
that he dare not offende in the open breache of that godlynes honesty and quietnes which Saynt Paule commendeth vnto vs so the Ecclesiasticall regyment doth vse that kynde of dysciplyne whereby the consience and inwarde man may bee kept in that willing obedyence vnto Gods commaundement touching a godlye honest and quyet lyfe And to note the distinction of these regymentes cyuill and spirituall the place vnto the Thessalonyans is well alledged for by the wordes suche as rule ouer you in the Lord the Apostle doth putte a difference beetweene the cyuill and ecclesiasticall regymente For albeit that godlye cyuill magistrates doe rule ouer vs in the Lorde yet Saynt Paule catexochen that is by excellencye ascrybeth that vnto the Ecclesiasticall gouernoures because that whereas the cyuill magistrate besyde hys care for the saluation of the soules of hys people is occupyed in procuring also the wealth and quyetnes of thys lyfe the Ecclesiasticall gouernors haue all their whole care set vpon that only â–ª which perteyneth to the lyfe to come And to thys end also is alledged by the admonition the place of Tim. wherein the apostle teacheth part of the ecclesiasticall dysciplyne which the mynister may vse to consist in reprehensions and rebukes which must be tempered according as the estate and age of euery one doth require Theyr meaning is not as M. Doctor vntruely surmyseth to shut out the cyuill magistrate or to debar hym of punishing the wicked but that it appertayneth not vnto the mynisters to deale that wayes whose correction of faultes lyeth partly in reprehensions and admonitions which he speaketh of there partly in excommunication wherof is spoken before Further touching the place of the Ephesians for so much as our sauior Christ as he is head of hys church is the spirituall gouernor thereof it is meete that their gouernement which are appoynted vnderneath hym as he is head shoulde be lykewise spirituall as hys is For as for the cyuill magistrate although hee be appoynted of Christ as he is God in which respect there is none aboue Christ yet hee is not appoynted of hym in respect that he is head of the church in regarde wherof God is aboue Christ and as the apostle sayeth the head of hym Now that I haue shewed that the places quoted by the admonition are for the most part to the purpose of that they be quoted for I wil adde a reason or two to thys pourpose before I come to answer to those reasons which are brought by M. Doctor Here I must desire the reader to remember which I sayde before when I spake agaynst non residencie the multitude difficultie of those things which are required of the mynister of the word of god And with all I wil leaue to the consyderation of euery one the great infirmitie and weakenes which is in men both the which consyderations set together it will easely appeare how vnmeete a thing it is that the mynister shoulde haue any other charge layde vppon hym seeing that it being so wayghty an office as will require all the gyftes he hath be they neuer so great it must needes fall out that so much as he doth in an other calling so much he leaueth vndone in thys And what the hand of man is able to reach herein it is to be considered in the apostles whome if the office of the mynistery dyd so wholy occupy and set a worke that they could admyt no other charge with it yea were fayne to cast of that which they had it is cleare that none of those which lyue now can besyde that function admytte any other publyke calling The story is knowen in the Actes that the apostles euen during the tyme that they kept together at Ierusalem and taught the church there were fayne that they might the better attend vnto preaching and praying by which two things S. Luke summarely setteth forth the office of the mynistery to geue ouer the charge of prouiding for the poore vnto others because they were not hable to doe both Now for so much as the Apostles endued with such giftes as none haue bene since or shal be hereafter coulde not discharge together with the office of the mynister that also of the deacon how should any man be founde that together with that office can discharge the office of a ciuill magistrate And if the Apostles would not haue the office of a Deacon which was ecclesiasticall and therefore of the same kynde with the mynistery ioyned vnto it how much lesse will they suffer that the mynistery should be ioyned with a ciuill office and therefore of an other kynde For reason teacheth that there is an easyer mingling of those which are of one kynd then of those which are of dyuers kyndes Agayne how can we iustly reproue the papistes for the vse of both the swordes spirituall and materiall when as we are found in the same fault our selues And surely howsoeuer long custome hath caused it to seme yet in deede it is a very great and vntollerable confusion which may be the easelyer vnderstanded if so be we set before our eyes how vncomely and disordered it is in the lyke or rather in the very same case For let vs imagine the Mayor or Baylife of a towne or the King or Emperor of the lande to come into the pulpet and make a sermon afterwarde to mynister the Sacramentes and from the Church to goe with the scepter in hys hand vnto the place of iudgement who would not be amased to see this and wonder at it as at a straunge and monstrous sight assuredly the selfe same deformity it is when as the Mynister of the word is made a Iustice of peace of Quorum a Commyssioner an Earle or any such lyke to whome the iudgement of matters pertayning to the courte of the ciuill Magistrate is committed especially seeing there are God be praysed of the Nobilitie and gentry of the realme that are able to discharge these offices much better then these Ecclesiasticall persones to whome they are committed And if so be that there fall out any question at any tyme which is to be decided by the word of God and wherein the aduise of the mynister is needefull there the mynisters helpe may and ought to bee required For thereof we haue not only an example in Esra where the Princes in a matter of difficultie came asked the counsell of Esra but we haue a plaine commaundement in Moses by the Lord â–ª who commaunded that the cause of pertury should be heard before the Lord in the sanctuary at the hearing wherof the high priest shuld be present by which commaundement the Lord doth not by bringing thys cause into the sanctuary declare that the iudgement therof dyd appertayne vnto the Ecclesiasticall court but because it being a matter which touched the glory of God very expresly hee woulde haue the Princes which were iudges there to be the nearer touched and the depelyer affected with
shal haue one in euery congregation For Iustin declareth there the Leyturgie or maner of seruing God that was in euery church vsed of the Christians And I pray you let it be considered what is the office of that proestos and see whether there be any resemblance in the world betwene hym and an archbyshop For he placeth hys office to be in preaching in conceiuing prayers in mynistring of the sacramentes Of any commaundement which he had ouer the rest of the mynisters or of any such priuiledges as the archbyshop hath he maketh not one worde It may be that the same myght haue the preheminence of calling the rest together and propounding the matter to the rest of the company and such lyke as is before declared As soone as euer you found proestos you snatched that by and by and went your wayes and so deceyue your selfe and others But if you had red the whole treatise you should haue founde that he was proestos of the people for thus it is written in the same Apologie Epeita prospheretai to Proestoti ton adelphon artos Afterwarde bread is brought to the president of the brethren calling the people as S. Paule doth continually brethren And therefore these are M. Doctors argumentes oute of Martyrs place There was a mynister which dyd stande before or was president of the rest in euery particulare church and congregation therefore there was an archbyshoppe ouer all the prouince And agayne there was one which ruled the people in euery congregation therfore there was one that ruled all the mynisters through out the whole prouince And albeit things were in great puritie in the dayes that Iustin liued in respect of the tymes which followed yet as there was in other things which appeare in hys workes and euen in the ministration of the sacramentes spoken of in that place corruption in that they mingled water and wine together so euen in the ministerie there began to peepe out some thing which went from the simplicitie of the gospel as that the name of proestos which was common to the elders with the ministers of the word was as it seemeth appropriated vnto one Another of M. Doctors reasons for to proue the archbyshop is that Cyrill maketh mention of an high priest wherunto I answere that he that bringeth in a priest into the church goeth about to bury our sauiour Christ for although it myght be proued that the worde priest were the same with the Greekes presbyteros yet as shall appeare in hys place is the vse of thys word priest for a mynister of the gospell very daungerous And as for hym that bringeth in an high priest into the church hee goeth about to put our sauiour Christ out of hys office who is proued in the Epistle to the Hebrues to be the only high priest and that there can be no more as long as the worlde endureth And yet if all thys were graunted you are not yet come to that which you desire to proue that is an archbyshoppe For if you looke in Theodorete you shall fynde thys woorde archierosyne which signifyeth the highe priesthoode to be nothing else but a byshoppricke and in the. 7. chapter of that booke and so forth dyuers tymes you shall haue archiereus taken for a byshop as speaking of the councel of Nice he sayth that there was 318. archiereis highe priestes Now I thincke you wil not say there were 318. archbyshops If you do you are confuted by all ecclesiasticall wryters that euer I red which speaking of them call them byshops Chrysostome followeth which as M. Doctor sayth ruled not only the church of Constantinople but the churches of Thracia Asia and Pontus he sayth it out of Theodorete But heerin it may appeare that eyther M. Doctor hath a very euill conscience in falsifying wryters that in the poyntes which he in controuersie or else he hath taken hys stuffe of certayne at the seconde hand without any examination of it at all For heere he hath set downe in stead of had care of the churches in Thracia c. ruled the churches the Greke is epoieito ten promethcian it is translated also prospexit so that it appeareth he fetched it neyther from Theodorite in Greeke nor in Latine And what is thys to proue an archbyshoppe that he had care of these churches there is no minister but ought to haue care ouer all the churches through christendome and to shew that care for them in comforting or admonishing of them by wryting or by visiting them if the necessitie so require and it be thought good by the churches and leaue obtayned of the place where he is mynister vppon some notable and especiall cause being some man of singular giftes whose learning and credite may profite much to the bringing to passe of that thing for the which he is to be sent After thys sort * S. Cyprian being in Affricke had care ouer Rome in Europe and wrote vnto the church there After thys sort also was * Ireneus byshoppe of Lions sent by the French churches vnto the churches in Phrigia And after thys sort haue M. Caluin and M. Beza bene sent from Geneua in Sauoy to the churches of Fraunce Now if you will conclude heereupon that Cyprian ruled the churche of Rome or Ireneus the churches of Phrigia or maister Caluin or M. Beza the churches of Fraunce or that they were byshops or archbyshops of those places you shall but conclude as you were wont to doe but yet all men vnderstand that heere is nothing lesse then an archbyshop or any such byshoppe as we haue and vse in our church And if so be that Chrysostome should be byshop or archbyshop of al these churches which were in al Asia Pontus Thracia as you wold geue the reader to vnderstand you make hym byshop of more churches then euer the Pope of Rome was when he was in hys greatest pryde and hys Empire largest For there were sixe presidentships in Thracia and in Asia there were a eleuen Princes and had seuerall regions or gouernmentes and in Pontus as many and if he were byshop or archbyshop of all the churches within these dominions he had neede of a long spone to feede with all It is certayne therefore that he was byshop only of the church in Constantinople and had an eye a care to those other churches And that he was byshop of one citie or of one church it may appeare by that which I haue before alleaged oute of the Greeke Scholiaste vpon Titus who citeth there Chrysostome where it is sayd that S. Paule dyd not meane to make one ouer the whole I le but that euery one should haue hys proper congregation c. * And in an other place he sheweth the difference betweene the Emperour and the byshop that the one is ouer the world and the other that is the byshop is ouer one citie Touching Theodorete byshop of Cyrus to let pas that which the bishops of