not Flyer Uerily I doe And happy it was for the Shippe as a Marchants factour could lately say that I was in it for had not I longed earnestly after Zion and according to Gods decree were predestinated before all worldes to come safely vnto the true Church planted in these partes as the Factor could say all the Ship had been cast away Anabapt What true Church is it sir which you meane is planted in these partes Flyer Certaine Englishmen separated from the Whore of Babilon I meane the Church in England Anabapt FroÌ„ the Protestants Church meane you Flyer The very same My heart leapes to thinke how farre I am got from the skirtes of that proude bloody Fornicatrix Are you a Duch-man that you can parlie so in English Anabap. I am and sometimes was a member of the Dutch-church that is in Norwich But God opening mine eyes to see the falsehoode of that Church I forsooke it and came so into these partes to liue with a Congregation purely christian Flyer What with our people I pray you Anabapt There be certaine English people of vs that came out from the Brownistes Flyer From the Brownistes Whya they be the people that I come to But I pray you let me admonish you of one thing Leaue that tearme of Brownist for they despise Brownes standing I tell you Anabapt Yea they despise his present standing for that he is returned to the Church of England but meane time they haue slapt vp his Vomite and maintaine the blind Schisme he made from that Church Flyer Call you it a blind Schisme Blind they be not that see the Holy thinges they see Nor Schisme is it but a faythfull departure from Babel Anabapt Babel You know not what â—abel meanes for they be a people ouer head and eares in Babel so farre from being fled from it Flyer Prooue that and I le leaue my Religion Anabapt You leaue it You may say if God will giue you the Grace to leaue it For it is a peculiar Grace to leaue Sodome and Aegipt spiritually so called Flyer It is trueth you say But I pray you Of what Religion may you be Anabapt Of the true Christian Religion commonly tearmed Anabaptisme TroÌ„ our baptizing of people againe comming from the false Church whereof your Congregation is a maine arrogant member Flyer I tremble to thinke that you should dare so to blaspheme the Tabernacle pight of God and not of man Anabapt Pight of the Diuell and the Antichristian Man Let mee spurre you one question Are you Baptized Flyer That I am I thanke God Anabapt Who Baptized you Flyer A Minister of the English Church And I thanke God it was done with a Sermon and without the Crosse in the forehead Anabap. Are the Ministers of England true Ministers Flyer No they be slaues to Antichrist in all his inuentions Anabapt Marke what a foole you be neither call I you foole Vnaduisedly You seperate from Babel and yet iustifies the ministeriall action of the Ministers of Babel Can they be Antichristian Ministers and their essentiall ministeriall actions Christian Hath Christ appoynted any limme of the Beast to keepe his Signet and to seale his people with Baptisme Hath Christ giuen power vnto any to Baptize to whom he sayth not first Goe and teach Will the Ministers of Antichrist seale vnto the true Christ Flyer Though they and their places be Antichristian yet the Baptisme may be Christian. Anabap. Once againe if happily God may bring you out of that misterie of iniquitie Was the Minister him selfe first a true Christian before he entred into that function Flyer No for he was a lim of that Beastes body Anabap. Did his ministerie then make him a true Christian Flyer At no hand being a Minister in the body of the same Beast Anabap. He being neither a true Minister nor so much as a true Christian and your selfe also a member of the same Antichrist How could you by his Baptisme become a true Christian Out of a bitter Fountaine can there come any sweete Water As the first fruites are are not also the branches Flyer I was no true Christian then nor it any true Baptisme but now being separated from them as these of the Ten Tribes which came vnto Iuda My Baptisme is good as their Circumcision then became good Anabapt English-man the Comparison is not alike They of Israel were commaunded to circumcise but no Minister of Antichrist is commaunded to Baptize The Israelites were a people that had been a true constituted Church but as your selues say England was neuer constituted of or to the Lord. Thirdly any Israelite might circumcise his Childe but in your opinion a Preacher of the word may onely doe that Till therefore you can prooue that the English Minister did but the commaundement of God in Baptising as the Israelite did it in Circumcising you may goe with the Beastes marke in your forehead as old and young in your Church carry it But come wee to another poynt â—â—e you hold that Christ which your â—â—iptian Priestes did teach you Flyer Yes verily and by Gods helpe so I will Anabap. And yet you are come out of Babel Can they that teach people dayly the true Christ be Ministers of Antichrist Are they not true ministers that teach and seale to the true Christ Or if they 〈◊〉 false Ministers which you graunt must not their principall felsehood â—â—en lie first in teaching a false Christ and secondly in sealing to the false Christ That is the Ministers can not be Antichristian but they must direct â—â—d signe the people vnto Antichrist vnder a cullour of Christ and that onely can be the mysterie of iniquitie But another question By what â—eanes seeke ye to be one with your Christ Flyerâ— By Fayth onely which is wrought 〈◊〉 my heart by the outward ministerie 〈◊〉 the word and the inward operation 〈◊〉 Gods spirit Anabap. Silly silly Can you call these Ministers of Antichrist whom you defende for such as haue not onely aâ— you say taught you the true Christ but also lead you by the true meanes vnto that true Christ. Thus the blinde hath led the blinde and both tumble in the ditch Either make the Treâ— good and his fruite good or make it bad and his fruite bad O friend I muse not though you stand amazed I my selfe was sometimes in such 〈◊〉 strait but he that gaue me simplicitiâ— of heart gaue mee to wind out of thaâ— Laborinth Iohn could not see the mysterie of that Beast in the Apocalips till he went out into the Desart God might for your lynsi-wolsie Fayth haue cast you away in the Sea but in mercie he hath reserued you vnto a better hower He did not cast me into your way for nothing I hope foâ— a blessing though otherwise in your perishing I should become a good fauour vnto God Thou in the Heauens take the Scales away from his eyes that he may see into the end of thinges that are to be abolished
long-swords do keepe out the Ordinances of Christ Iesus Haue you not so taught and written Mal. content Indeed I thinke I so writ once in a Sermon vpon Rom. 12.6 7 8. and in some of my Petitions to the Parliament c. Flyer In your c. you may vnderstande many other Bookes the most of your publique Sermons and specially your Conuenticles in secret where your priuat Disciples might priuately applaud you And if you remember I was one of your Classis when in Cambridge you in secret chattred out that Sermon vpon Rom. 12. which afterwardes was published without name because it seemeth you were not minded for it publiquely to take up Christs crosse and so to follow him Mal-con You Flyers be exceeding harsh in your censures Flyer And you sir Mal-content exceeding doble in your dealinges But to come to the poynt doe you not stand a member of that Church whose gouernment is Antichristian Mal-con What if I doe Flyer Then you are a member of Antichrist and all your Prayers and Preachinges but so many badges of the Beast and all accursed Mal-con But it may be I stand no ordinarie member of that Church Flyer Are you a member of the Church of England yea or no Mal-con A member I am but no Ordinarie member For though I sometimes heare some man preach that is but occasionally as a man passing by some Scolds might occasionally giue them a while the hearing And as for the sacrament of Communion I neuer meddle with it because Righteousnes can haue no fellowship with vnrighteousnes and so I am no ordinarie member Flyer O monstrous hypocrisie with your two-peny-ordinary Was it euer heard of in the Bible that a man should be a member not a member of a Church which you call a member not-ordinary So I may be a member of the Church of Rome a member of Mahomets Sinagogue and of whom not It this be not a Babel a Confusion of men and manners what then can bee But answere to this question Under whose gouernment are you whiles you are in a parish Church hearing a Preacher of the Bishops ordination Mal-con To speake the trueth vnder the regiment of Antichrist Flyer Are you not there held for a Subiect to the sayd Antichristian regiment Mal-cont The most it may be doe but it may be that some there know that my heart is against their doinges Flyer So the good testimonie which you should seeke for of men doth rest vpon It may be it may be It may be you may leaue this halting but I know not when The Prophet Daniel had not this subtiltie when though he did well he would not be thought of any to do euill as omitting duetie of prayer to God Hananiah Azariah and Mishael could by your Religion haue bowed before the Idoll and notwithstanding haue sayd that their heartes were against it and one of them could haue borne witnesse of anothers good meaning But they had learned that both body and soule were bought with a price euen with the blood of the immaculate Lambe and therefore they must glorifie God in both Trueth is naked and seekes none of these corners But tell me I pray you If the King should giue all his Subiects leaue to forsake all communion with the Confused people leitourgie and gouernement of the Church of England would you not for sake them all and betake you presently to that Church whereof I am a member Mal-cont Indeed I should And that is the maine point in truth the King not giuing leaue to come out of this Aegypt this spirituall house of bondage Flyer Mal-content You tearme your Church uery fitly A spirituall house of bondage And because Spirituall therefore not to be fraied in till y e King giue leaue to goe out Do more then the Theefe Adulterer or Durtherer is to stay in his sinne till the King bid him go out And yet these euils against the second Table onely whereas the other is hypocrisie in Religion and flat Idolatrie against the first Table of the â—orall law which commaundeth Holynesse towardes God as the second inioyneth Righteousnesse towardes man Though Daniel Hananiah Azariah Mishael and their brethren might not depart Babel them coastes till y e King gaue leaue yet they might ought and did depart from their Idolatrie and false worship howsoeuer their Godyes for testifying against it were â—ardly intreated and still kept in corpoâ—all bondage Mal-con Mee thinkes M. Flyer you now â—uch your selfe who departes the Kinges territories and your owne natiue land which is more for planting a Church amonst a people of hard language For which respect a principall Norwich-man of your sect hath helde you for a true Church while yee were in your owne Nation But departing once the limits of your owne language he hath taught that so ye apostate from Fayth and Charitie and to be no true Church I thinke you cannot answere him Flyer If I could not yet that is no excuse for your standing in spirituall euil But I pray you did not Elias fly in time of persecution Did not our Sauiour so and teach his Apostles to do so Mal-con True but no flight to continue with any people whose language they vnderstood not much lesse there to plant a Church Flyer Well for that poynt I am not yet studied I will aske councell about it Meane time looke you to your winding and doubling euen against the light of your minde and confession of your mouth Mal-con Nay we haue some of vs moe exceptions against you For you cannot be contented onely to depart from vs but you condemne euery soule of our Church for a lim of the sonne of Perdition and so to stand visibly in the state of damnation Whereas you know well enough that many of vs grone vnder the burden of sinne and do striue after that is good Flyer Mal-content Mal-content you must not onely grone vnder sinne but grieue at it and fly from it as I and others haue who as Hee-goates before the Flocke haue gone foorth with our faces towardes Sion Mal-con Besides M. Flyer in the writings you publish you fill all the Margines with allegations from Scripture and the most to none or to a lying purpose As to giue one instance It is held of you and vs that the new Testament hath his peculiar forme of Church-gouernment giuen by Christ and that the old Testament hath his peculiar gouernment giuen by Moses And yet for proofe of Christes Discipline and Institutions you quote Scriptures from the olde Testament which planely establish the Mosaicall orders A seconde instance may be this Such Scriptures as speake of the inuisible Church knowen to God for holy and vnspotted you quote for probatioÌ„ of the visible Church her state and constitution which you intende must be Visibly all holy and vnspotted in this life If such allegation of Scripture be not a notable taking of Gods name in vaine I then vnderstand nothing Flyer First let it be so
there could be no more a true Esse of the Church till from God some myraculous Ministerie should breath new life into the people as of Stones raysing vp Children vnto Abraham Anabapt A true Esse What is that I hold my life it is somewhat of the Romane beastes language Legat. arr I despise the seauen headed Monster more then you Neither care I a straw for Hebrew Greeke or Latine for thankes to his diuine Maiestie I neuer was an Uniuersity-man much lesse an Academicall Diuine or Theologue nor haue I troubled my selfe about the Beastes tongue Only as in reasoning I haue bin pressed with such a word I haue obserued it for slaying another time the Medianite with his owne sword Anabapt Fowle Heretike I would thou knew it I hate this prophane learning and language so well as thou I am a Prophet of the true Church and yet get my lyuing by making of Swordes the first calling I was trayned in Legat. ar Whia sir foole you hold the Magistrate to be onely an Ordinaunce since Christes time without the Church and that the vse of the Sword is vnlawfull You therefore in making Swordes doe vphold Bloodshed and Warres which otherwise you hold vnlawfull And so a raucke hypocrite Anabap. Sawcie princocks the Apostle hath charged vs to walke in the same calling wherein we were called to be Christians but when I was called to be a Christian I was a Sword-maker therefore in that called I ought to continue Legat. ar Gray head and greene minde by like proportion I reason thus The Apâ—stle commaundes a man to walke in the same calling a man was of when he was called to Christianitie But when I was called vnto Christianitie my calling was to keepe an Whore-house therefore being now called to be a Christian I ought yet to keepe an Whore-house Country-man take heede of him for vnder his pâ—aine habite voyde of Silke Ueluet and Pearse and yet I warrant thee of as softly English cloth as his Purse could purchase there lurketh all counterfaite dealing He would be thought most aduerse to the Romanistes and yet in the doctrines of Predestination Freewill Iustification mayne fundamentall poyntes he iumpeth one with them besides that execrable Heresie that Christ had a Corporall nature from Heauen not from vs wherevpon must necessarily follow that then he could neuer satisfie Gods iustice for vs. Anabapt Heauens-power how great is thy lenitie in bearing with such blasphemie Faythfull Proselite hanke in thine eare come to me there to night or tomorrow morning and thou shalt be inspired from aboue with power to resist all the deuises of such Charmers charme they neuer so wittily Farewell deare Proselite for I will trudge before least my eares become receptacles of his vnhallowed breathinges THE FOVRTH DIALOGVE betweene the Flyer and Legatine-arrian Legatine-arrian DEare Countryman may I be so bold as to inquire wherefore you came into these parts Flyer Good sir to speake the truth I came from the Separistes in London with full purpose to ioyne with that Church of them which is in these partes But meeting with this man as I came from Flushen where I landed and discoursing with him about Religion I verily resolued to ioyne with him and his Congregation But perceiuing by your Dialoguizing with him that all is meere foolerie to beleeue that either Hee or Brownist or Mal-content is of any true Church yea that there can be no Christian communion till a myraculous Ministerie be stirred vp of God for baptising people and calling them into Christian communion I herevpon haue giuen him the bagge Fish where he shall he shall haue no Fish of mee And therefore good sir seeing it pleased the Almightie to saue mee myraculously from seas and I perceiue it was for keeping mee to be instructed of you my humble desire is to vnderstande of you what a soule is to doe in this case there being not onely no true visible Church on the earth but also no true visible Christian I beseech you pray for mee or else I know not what shall become of mee Legat. ar Pray for you I may but pray with you I may not Prayer with one is an action of communion as for example if I should say Our Father Giue Vs this day our bread Forgiue Vs our sinnes Lead not Vs into temptation this should imply that you and I were in communion or christian fellowship But before that myraculous Ministerie as afore shall come and gather the Gentiles into such communion and Elias come for calling the Iewes there can be no such fellowship and therefore no such prayer When I come at my Chamber I will pray for you Flyer I pray you sir let me next Sabaoth day haue accesse vnto your Congregation for I doubt not but you haue some Congregation heere in Zeland Legat. ar How sillily you speake I haue all this while taught you that there is no Church nor visible Christian in the world as yet seeing no myraculous Apostles haue yet been sent to Baptize people and call them into communion and you talke of a Church Besides it is a notable badge of Antichrist for any christian Congregation vpon the Sabaoths conuention or any other time of the Churches meeting to admit of any vnbeleeuer or stranger to the fayth vnto the Pastorall exercise For is it not written in 1. Cor. 14.22 Prophecie serueth not for them that beleeue not but for them which beleeue Flyer Then I perceiue that all such as I haue left behinde me haue serued Antichrist in hypocrisie for they suffer any Infidell to come vnto their exercise of Prophecie or Preaching But my Countrimen the Flyers haue herein sinned aboue all for they permit infidelious Marchantes and others to come on the Thurseday vnto their exercise of Prophecie when ten to one by reason of some brabling canse then to be pleaded the Congregation meeteth â—ayeth and departeth without any Prayer at all or exercise of their propheticall guiâ—tes Legat. arr Propheticall guiftes Propheticall fooleries Tom Lace-seller and Abraham Pin-seller so I thinke M. Henry Barrow spoke in the Fleete must come out and spatter their meaninges and this must be called the exercise of Prophecie Flyer O excellent man of God I am sory that we be come notâ— into the tayle of Midleburghe for that will brake off our Discourse Legat. arr O prophane speach you should haue sayd into the Suburbs of Midleburghe Flyer The word Suburbs I tooke to be â— word of Latine and so of the Beastes language which made me to auoyde it Legat. ar Therein I commende your zeale For in their Translations they cannot be contented to say My God my God why hast thou forsaken me but before it they must put downe their prophane Latine Elj Elj lamasabâ—thenj Nor can be contented to say God hath sent the spirit of his Sonne to cry Father but they must turne it Abba father At Amsterdam I once checked a Preacher that is now in England for such fooleries
Flyer Me thinkes it should be true that the â—â—ues of Satan should onely serue â—atan in their ministrie as the Gallyâ—aues with Ores do serue the Turkes Lieftenant Anabapt A very good comparison whose Seruant one is his workes they doe For no one can serue two Maisters specially so crosse as Christ and Antichrist Flyer I pray you sir then what be the Arâ—â—cles of your fayth Anabap. For that friend remember what is written in Ezek. 43.11 When they be ashamed of all that they haue done shew â—â—em the forme of the house and the patâ—â—rne thereof and the going out thereof and â—he comming in thereof and all the fashion thereof and all the ordinaunces thereof c. â—â—ploying thus much that the Holy mysteries are not to be reuealed but â—nely to such a soule as is first ashaâ—ed of all by-pathes of false worship â—or the Childrens Bread is not to be â—st vnto Dogs that will ball against â—â—e trueth nor Pearles vnto Hogs â—â—at wallow in their owne shame Flyer I am ashamed of my standing not only with the Protestant but also with the Separist and Priuate and I firmely betake my selfe to your Fayth till death vs depart Anabapt The Deaw of heauen come vpon you To morrow I will bring you into our sacred Congregation that so you may come to be informed in the Fayth and after that to be purely Baptized Flyer Thankes reuerend man of God I thinke sir you are some Minister your selfe Anabapt That word Minister fitteth not I am a Prophet of the Lord spoken of in the eleuenth of the Reuelation which in homely apparaile as Sackcloth doe bewayle the peoples sinnes protesting against the Beast that come out of the bottomlesse Pitte And as I had in vision this night the Beast in time shall put mee to death for the Holy testimonie But an Angell hath comforted mee and sayth that before that time I shall turne the hearts of many Fathers to the Children and the heartes of Children to the Fathers least otherwise the great power should smite the Earth with cursing Flyer O sir mee thinkes the spirit of life is entred hoâ—te into mee Mee thinkes I could leape into that passage-Cart and prophecie Fire vpon England and all English Sectaries Anabapt Stay holy Proselite thou must first be Baptized and haue some diuine Vision from aboue And so being made a perfect Emâ—usiast thou shalt be able to turne backe the Floodes of Iordane But stay one is at our heeles If wee fall into any talke of Religion lay you your hand of your mouth and be silent Flyer I will O miraculous Prophet THE THIRD DIALOGVE Betweene Anabaptist and the Legatine-Arrian Legatine-Arrian WEll ouer-taken Father goe you vnto Midleburghe Anabap. I doe sir. Legat. ar I would be glad of your company and so much the rather for that you are gray-headed and Moses commaundeth such Youth as I am to rise vp before tâ—â— gray-headed Anabap. Thou sayst well sonne and I am glad thou readest Moses with some obseruance Legat. ar Without such diuine reading and obseruatioÌ„ Man is worse then a Dog What religion are you of Father Anabapt Of the true Christian religion Legat. ar Professed according to what what forme Father For the Papistes professe him according to one forme the Protestants after another forme and so the Puritaines Brownistes Anabaptistes and others Anabapt I professe him sonne after that manner which is reuiled by the name of Anabaptistes though Ana-baptisme or Râ—-baptization is a thing we be not ashamed of but rather glory in as hauing onely power from the Lord to deliuer that seale of Baptisme Legat. ar Are you Baptized then Anabapt I am sonne Legat. ar And I am of minde that there is no true Baptisme vpon the earth Anabapt Not in the earth I pray thee sonne say not so The coâ—â—â—egation I am of can and doth administer true Baptisme Legat. arr Say you so Father Your congregation as appeareth in Sleydan is but as of the last day Was not the true Church according to S. Iohns Uision in the Reuelation to be for manie yeares inuisible and not to be seene in the earth Anabapt That is certainely true And so I thinke my Brother that heere walketh with vs your countryman forsooth is accordingly minded Flyer I am Legat. ar I am of the same minde and therefore conclude therevpon thus The Church being to be latent and inuisible for many yeares so that her place was no more to be found it must accordingly follow that there could be no more a visible Church till some notable men were surred vp of God to raise it againe out of the dust Anabapt I graunt that And notable men haue we had Legat. ar The men that began the frame of the Church of Israel were Moses and Aaron The men that began the New-testaments Church were the Apostles All these were furnished with the guift of Myracles for the perswading of their hearers For without Myracle they could not be beleeued to come from God for establishing a new Church-pollicie Now Father who were the first layers of your Churches foundation They must bring Myracles with them or who but mad-men will take them for new Founders Anabapt My sonne wee haue had sundry men that haue been myraculous Legat. arr Indeed Sleidan recordeth your Snapper-doling and some others that were marueilous for their Dreames wherevpon they practised all filthines and intollerable bloodshed But to passe by that and the like Of whom had the first of your people his Baptisme The first had it doubtlesse in the Church of Rome and so consequently from Antichrist and Adam the first being impure we that follow can be no better As is the first fruite so be the branches New Baptisme there can not be till there come new Apostles New Apostles there can not be who are not endued from aboue with myracles Myracles we heare of none onely of idle Dreames and so consequently no true Baptisme in the earth nor any one true visible Christian Anabapt Doe you not beleeue your selfe to be one Legat. arr Not for alter an vtter ceassing of visible Christianitie there can be no raysing vp of that worke to visible appearance till Ministers haue begun it who may by Myracle confirme their calling For not our Sauiour Christ would so much as abolish the Shadow and establish the Substaunce but he would first vnto the people cleare his calling by an effectuall declaration of Myracles And what are you that you should be beleeued of your bare words Anabap. I perceiue sonne that thou art against all Churches and all Churches against thee as was the hand of flouting Israel turned out of Abrahams house the father of beleeuers Legat. ar You are au old Dunse to liken mee vnto Ismael a figure of Reprobates For you and others once graunting that y e Church according to that in the Reuelation chap. 6.14 represented by the Heauens departing once away as a Scrowle when it is rowled must needes therevpon conclude that