Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	according_a	true_a	truth_n	2,749	5	5.2105	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10907	An answer to Mr. Fisher the Iesuite, his fiue propositions concerning Luther. By Mr. Rogers, that worthy Oxford diuine. VVith some passages also of the said Mr. Rogers with the said Mr. Fisher. Hereunto is annexed Mr. VV.C. his dialogue of the said argument, wherein is discouered Fishers folly	Rogers, Henry, ca. 1585-1658.; Crashaw, William, 1572-1626. aut	1623 (1623)	STC 21177; ESTC S116093	13,598	35

AN ANSWER TO M R. FISHER THE IESVITE HIS FIVE PROPOSITIONS CONCERNING LVTHER By Mr. ROGERS that wor●●● Oxford Diuine VVith some passages also of the said Mr. Rogers with the said Mr. Fisher Hereunto is annexed Mr. VV. C. his Dialogue of the said Argument wherein is disco●●●●d FISHERS FOLLY Printed M.DC.XXIII M R. FISHER THE IESVITE HIS FIVE PROPOSITIONS CONCERNING 1. Luther 2. Doctrine 3. Names 1. THere is one and but one true infallible faith Eph. 4. Heb. 11. without which none can please God nor consequently attaine eternall saluation 2. Rom. 10. Eph. 4. This infallible faith cannot be had according to the ordinarie course of Gods prouidence but by hearing Preachers and Pastors of the true visible Church who onely are lawfully sent and authorized to teach the true word of God 3. As therefore this one infallible faith hath beene Ose 2. Isa 56. Mat. 18. Eph. 4. and must be in all ages so there must be in all ages Preachers and Pastors of the true visible Church of whom all sorts of people haue in times past as appeareth by histories learned and must in all future times learne the said infallible faith 4. Hence it followeth that if Protestants be the true visible Church of God then all sorts of men who in euery age haue had the aforesaid infallible faith haue learned it by hearing Protestant Preachers whose names may be found who in euery former age did teach and conuert people of seuerall Nations vnto the faith of Christ 5. Hence further it followeth that if there cannot as there cannot be found in Historie the names of Protestant Preachers who in all ages did teach all sorts of faithfull people and who conuertd seuerall Nations vnto the Christian faith hence it followeth I say that the Protestants are not the true visible Church of Christ neither are their Preachers lawfully sent or sufficiently authorized to teach nor the people securely warranted to learne of them that one infallible faith without which none can please God nor if they so liue and die can be saued 1. Names 2. Doctrine If any Protestant will answer the premises let him set downe the Names of Protestant Preachers in all ages who taught the people Protestant Doctrine in euery seuerall age or else confesse that there were no such before Luther or at least not in all ages to be found in Historie TO THE CHRISTIAN READER CHristian Reader There came to my hands by the good prouidence of God this small Treatise touching a conference betwixt one Mr. Rogers an Oxford Diuine and one Mr. Fisher a Iesuite as it should seeme it was sent inclosed to a Gentleman of good worth and worship one this side the Seas hauing read it ouer and perceiuing it to be of very necessary vse for my Country-men of England whose good I desire from my heart I haue aduentured to publish it to the view of the world the rather because therein is notably laid open and conuinced the weake grounds of the fiue propositions of Mr. Fisher the Iesuite who is as I heare so much admired of English papists the which Fisher Sweet Brierly Clerk with others of that company doe studie and striue with all might and maine by divulging their written papers as also their Printed Bookes full of lyes and vntruths nay I say Bookes full of blasphemie against the grea● God of heauen as namely that Booke Intituled The vncasing of Heresie written by O. A and all to make proselites of their owne faction to ruine that flourishing Church and Common-wealth I beseech the great God of heauen to raise vp dayly worthy Diuines more and more to defend his owne cause against the Kingdome of Antichrist and wicked instruments being very dangerous persons both against Church and Common wealth Read it with the 〈…〉 ioyned so by Gods blessing thou shalt reape 〈◊〉 fit by it and g●ue all glory to God aboue who in 〈◊〉 will ●e●●esse things that are amisse THE ANSWER TO THE MASSE-PRIESTS DEMANDS CONCERNING 1. Doctrine and 2. Names Rogers THe three first positions I admit 1. that there is one faith 2. That the ordinarie propagation of this faith is by Pastors lawfully called 3. That there haue been and must be in all agee such Pastors so called 4. I would gladly know what they meane by those wordes If the Protestants be the true visible Church whether so as if we alone who are commonly called Protestants were of the Church and no others we leaue such inclosing of commons to the Romanists we challenge it not We are a true Church not the true Church we are a part not the whole we include our selues we exclude not others whether Grecians Armenians Aethiopians Spaniards or Italians c yet so they deny no fundamentall part of the faith either directly or by consequent 5. In the first I desire to know whether they require we should shew the Names of Protestants in Histories or their faith this we will shew that we neede not for the name of Protestants is but arbitrarie and accidentall from a protestation made in Germanie and from the like accidents we may call the Romanists Protestants for many protestations made in the Councell of Trent Registred in their publike Acts. But if it be really meant thus let the Protestants shew that their now faith was taught by lawfull Pastors in all ages I doe with Gods helpe vndertake it and require the same from the Authors of these propositions and demaunds This will I proue by three Argument 1. A Causis 2. A Signis 3. Ab Exemplis Which is the onely satisfaction here demanded but I must desire the authors not to affect obscuritie or to alter their words which may alter their meaning as in the fiue propositions they haue with the multitude of needlesse words obscured the matter the fourth being briefely and plainly this 4. If the Protestants be a true Church their faith hath beene taught in all ages by lawfull Pastors This I grant also The summe of the fift is briefely this 5. If the Names of Protestant Pastors in all ages cannot be shewed then the Protestants are not a true Church This I denie to be of vndoubted consequence for the Argument negatiuely from authoritie is of no force In your Demands you require the Names of such as taught the Protestants Doctrines in all ages wheras all your propositions before were of faith as if all Doctrines were points of faith Now Sit my Arguments 1. The faith contained in Scriptures hath beene taught in all ages But the faith of the Protestants is contained in Scriptures Ergo The faith of the Protestants hath beene taught in all ages 2. That faith which hath the testimonie of antiquitie vniuersalitie and consent was taught in all ages by lawfull Pastors The faith of the Protestants hath these testimonies Ergo The faith of the Protestants was taught in all ages 3. That faith which hath beene taught by Authors visible in all ages is the true

sometime in another as it pleased God in his wise dispensation who caries the light of his Gospell as hee doth the Sunne through the world to illuminate nations at seuerall times therewith according to his will E. That is a faire generall but will you tell vs who were these what countrey people what Doctors who taught as yee teach D. Looke the Churches of Asia Africke and of Europe consider them as they were before the mystery of iniquitie ca●e to the height and you shall see that they all had the same doctrine a●d forme of a Church that wee haue in all substantiall points pertaining to Religion E. But you are not able to name one before Luther teaching in all things as he did D. This is a peece of Sophistrie whereby your deceiuers blind the ignorant E How so should not the teachers of the truth agree in all things in one harmonie D. I grant they should and thanks be to God they do also in all substantiall things which are the Articles of our faith The Buckler of Fa●●● published in French by M. Peter du Moulin translated into English twise printed Anno 1624 is a most excellent book for these present times concerning Luther c. let Luther answer it at his best le●sure or Sweet or Anthony 〈◊〉 of any Iesuit or Masse-priest whosoeuer But is this a good reason because some Doctors in some opinions differ whereof men may be ignorant and saued neuerthelesse that therefore these Doctors teach no truth and their Churches are no true Churches E. That seemes to be hard indeed D. You haue reason for you so to think For in one age Victor with the Church in the West was in a different opinion from Policrates and the Churches of the East and Ierome had his owne discordance with Augustine and the first ●athers of the primitiue Church were Chiliasts shall it thereupon follow that because in this point they taught not in all things as wee doe that therefore they were not a Church E. It is no reason D. Cyprian in the point of rebaptizing taught not as Cornelius what of that will it follow that he was not a faithfull Pastor or the Church of Carthage was not a true Church E. It followes not indeed D. VVhy then do you vrge me to giue you one before Luther or Calvin who in all points taught as wee teach The Doctors of the Church both ancient and recent are men subiect to infirmities for no man vpon earth hath his vnderstanding perfect whereof it comes to passe that in some things one of them differs from another but as to the Articles of the faith and substance of Christian religion whereby comes saluation sure it is Tertullian and Cyprian Ambrose Augustine Luther and Calvin haue all deliuered one doctrine and did teach the way of God truly E. Then you thinke the Fathers of the Primitiue Church were of your Religion D. I thinke so indeed and hope to die in the same faith wherein they liued and died E. It would be thought strange to heare that in Italy that the Doctors of the Primitiue Church were of the Protestants Religion D. No marvell though it be strange there where truth is a stranger but this answer was giuen you and them both by a worthy Doctor of our Church The light of Cambridge M. Doctor Whitakers in Camplanum M. Doctor Whitakers and yet we stand to it Patros in maximis sunt nostri in multis narij in minimis vestri Such Fathers saith Doctor Whitakers as haue written before vs and you both in greatest things are ours in many things are doubtfull in smallest things they are yours E. Well I will remember that God willing but in the dayes of Papistrie wherewith you say the world was blinded where was your Church D. Answer me but another question and it shall resolue you E. What is that D. Your Doctors say that when Antichrist shall come the Church shall flie to the Desert that is as themselues expound it The Rhemists vpon Reuel 11. The Church shall be without publike state of regiment and open free exercise of holy functions neither shall it be vnknowne to the faithfull which follow it as this day may be seene the like by the Church of Romane Catholikes in many parts of England E. What doth that helpe you D. Very much That which they themselues say will be done we say is done Antichrist hath already chased the Church to the wildernesse and so oppressed it that for a time it had no publike state of regiment nor open free exercise of holy functions yet was it not vnknowne to the faithfull that followed it nor to the enemies that persecu●ed it as this day may be seene by the Church of Christian Catholikes in many parts of France E. Will ye make that cleare and I thinke you haue wonne much D. VVhat greater clearnesse can you craue If this answer be good to cleare the Popes Church when they say it will be obscured by Antichrist and yet be is it not as good to iustifie our Church when we say it hath been obscured by Antichrist and yet was E. The answer is good enough only if you can I would haue you qualifie it more particularly D. There is not one age since the dayes of Christ vnto this day wherein I cannot point forth men preaching and professing as we doe but because your doubt is specially of the time of Papistrie I will let you see it is a needlesse question for the Popes Church to demand of vs where our Church then was for they found vs alwayes in their teeth before euer Luther or Caluin were borne E. Make that good D. See Reinerus vpon the Apoc. Reinerus a popish Inquisitor who liued more then three hundred yeares ago speaking of the poore men of Lyons and calling them in contempt Valdenses Leonistae saith they were more pernicious to the Church of Rome then all other sects 3. Reasons why the Walden●es much vexed the Rom. Church for three causes First because it hath been of longer continuance for some say this sect hath endured since the Apostles times The second cause is because it is more generall for there is almost no Land in the which this Sect doth not creepe The third cause for that all other Sects doe bring an horror with the hainousnesse of their blasphemies against God but this Sect of Leonists hath a great shew of godlinesse because they liue iustly before men and beleeue all things well concerning God and all the Articles which are contained in the Creed onely they blaspheme and hate the Church of Rome Now there is the testimonie of an enemie making answer for vs which may serue to stop the mouthes of all our enemies from demanding of vs any more Where was your Church before Luther E. 1. but he calls them a Sect and sayes they blasphemed the Church D. So the Priests of the Iewes called the Church of Christians a Sect