Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
church_n according_a rome_n true_a 3,345 5 4.5115 3 false
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A36239 An answer to six queries proposed to a gentlewoman of the Church of England, by an emissary of the Church of Rome, fitted to a gentlewomans capacity / by Henry Dodwell ... Dodwell, Henry, 1641-1711. 1688 (1688) Wing D1803; ESTC R14490 28,591 42

There are 3 snippets containing the selected quad. | View lemmatised text

them as when at length they came to be so countenanced For the Errors of Private Persons whilst they are no more are not conceived so to oblige us to be of their mind as that our silence should in any Prudence be expounded as an Argument of our consent and consequently cannot be such a provocation to us to oppose them openly in our own Defence Nor 3. Is it necessary to expect that there should have been an open opposition of them even as soon as countenanced by Authority For if even in the reproof of the miscarriages of private Persons Christianity obliges us to proceed with all possible candor and modesty we are certainly much rather obliged to proceed so in dealing with Persons of Authority We should give them time to reflect and we should bear with any Personal inconveniences that are not directly sinful rather than occasion those disturbances which are usually to be expected from a publick opposition of them Nor is this forbearance more agreeable to reason than to the sentiments of those Ages who were generally possessed with an excessive veneration for Authority especially Ecclesiastical so that there is reason to believe that they would bear with such Errors as long as the Abuses were tolerable however otherwise inconvenient 4. Therefore that which makes these Errors intolerable to private Persons in dealing with Authority for of such I speak is the imposing and urging them as Conditions of Communion And this might have been shewn to have been late not before their Errors were defined and imposed in their Councils And therefore it was but lately that any publick opposition was to be expected even from them who were in their Consciences perswaded that our Adversaries Doctrines were Erroneous And 5. When they were thus imposed yet even then private Persons were concerned in Conscience as well as Prudence to forbear an open opposition when there were no hopes of doing good nay too probable fears of prejudicing their Cause by it for the future when upon their opposition they must have expected to have been condemned when being condemned they were to be cast out of Communion when being Excommunicated for such a Cause others would have been deterred by their Example and their credit must have been impaired by the Infamy incurred by the Canon-Law then in force and their very condemnation would for the future mightily prejudice Mens minds against the like attempts when none could revive the like true Doctrine without the disrepute of being supposed to revive an anciently-condemned Heresie and when there were no hopes of being able to preserve themselves in opposite Assemblies without Bishops to Head them without whom they could not maintain a Succession of Priests nor consequently of Sacraments and the like employments and advantages of Ecclesiastical Assemblies and when no Bishops were likely to countenance such a design whilst they were held in such captivity to the Court of Rome by Oaths as well as their other Worldly Interests and when no Persons of a free ingenuous temper were likely to attain the honour of Episcopacy These Reasons with a very easie Application may suffice to shew that in an ordinary way there was no reason to expect the Reformation sooner than it was And that there was no necessity sufficient to oblige God to interpose to raise Men up to it Extraordinarily will appear if it be considered 6. That it is not every necessity of the Church that can oblige God to use such Extraordinary means but only such a necessity as must have destroyed a Church from the Earth that is such a Society of Men wherein Salvation might be attained by the ordinary Prescriptions of the Gospel Now the prevalency of these Errors does not oblige us to acknowledg that such a Church as this must have failed even in those Ages wherein these Errors are supposed to have prevailed for some Centuries before the Reformation For 1. Though the Occidental Church had failed yet Christ might have had such a Church among the several Communions of the Orientals And I know no greater inconvenience in this regard in admitting the faileur of the Occidental Church than what our Adversaries themselves are obnoxious to in admitting the like defection in the Oriental 2. The prevailing of these Errors does not oblige us to deny an ordinary possibility of Salvation according to the Prescriptions of the Gospel even in the Church of Rome it self in those Centuries before the Reformation For 1. We do not deny all Necessaries to Salvation even according to the ordinary Prescriptions of the Gospel to have been taught even then in the Church of Rome The Errors we charge them with are not of Defect but Adding to the Original Articles of Faith. And therefore 2. If it may appear that the sin of Adding to the Faith was not to such as were no farther accessary to it than by continuing in the Communion of such as were really guilty of it so imputable ordinarily as to hinder the Salvation of such as were not otherwise wanting to themselves in their own Endeavours or at least not in such a degree as to oblige God to interpose in an Extraordinary way for its Ordinary prevention this will be sufficient to shew that supposing those Errors so dangerous as we do indeed suppose them yet God was not obliged to raise up and maintain a Communion in opposition to them for preventing the failing of such a Church as I have spoken of even in these Western Parts And that this was so may appear from these Considerations 1. That that skill in Ecclesiastical Learning by which our first Reformers were enabled to discover these Errors was generally wanting in the Ages before the Reformation which might make their mistakes then much more pardonable than now 2. That the great mischief of these Errors is not so much the believing more for matters of Faith than really was so as the mischievous Consequence of doing so the Divisions of the Church necessarily following hereupon the condemning of good Catholicks for Hereticks and Schismaticks and excluding them from Communion and hereby making the Peace of Christendom impossible on any just and tolerable terms and Abuses impossible to be Reformed Which was not so imputable in those Ages when there was no visible Communion to be condemned by joyning with that of Rome for as for the even unjust Excommunication of particular Persons Providence is not so concerned as to interpose Extraordinarily for their Prevention This I say on Supposition that the Waldenses and Albigenses c. were such as our Adversaries represent them If they were otherwise then among them there was a Succession for so long of Churches holding our Doctrines before Luther 3. The Prudential Reasons now given might then generally excuse private Persons and all such as were not accessary to the guilt of introducing those Errors who were much the greater Part and it is only for the greater Part that Providence is necessarily concerned from the guilt of not
them here where they are disserviceable to their Interests But farther 4. Abuses in Governours acknowledging themselves Fallible tho they be supposed indeed to be Abuses are much more tolerable than in those who do not seeing there may be hopes that Governours acknowledging themselves Fallible may in time be better informed and may then themselves reform what is amiss without the compulsion of their Subjects which can never be expected from such as pretend to be Infallible 5. If Abuses of this Nature be conceived a sufficient Reason for leaving a Communion wherein we are already much more are they sufficient for hindring our access to another wherein as yet we are not So that this same Reason if it should make her desert the Communion of the Church of England would also hinder her joyning in that of Rome in which the most Judicious and Candid Persons of that Communion will acknowledg Abuses of the like nature 2. As far as these Omissions are countenanceed by our Church there is reason for it I say as far as they are countenanced by our Church and therefore the reason I shall give for such Omissions shall be as they are considered under that Notion 1. Therefore for Fasting Days I think they are imposed with the same design of Religion in our Church as in that of Rome for that account of Jejunium Ceoilianum which is given by some is not taken for the true sense of our Church by her most genuine Sons and that our Church is conceived to have as much Authority to oblige her Subjects in Impositions of that Nature so that I cannot look on this disuse prevailing in Practice as countenanced by our Church If the Gentlewoman be so zealously concerned for them I am sure She may Practice them in our Communion as well as in that of Rome as several others do 2. Confession even to a Priest in order to his Advice and Absolution our Church I think owns as much as that of Rome though we do not make it a Sacrament nor make it absolutely necessary in an ordinaey way for the remission of every particular Sin that it be particularly confessed That the Practice of it is at present discontinued our Church I think is not the Cause That She has not interposed her Authority to continue it might have been excused 1. Because the thing is only of Ecclesiastical Right For the ancientest obligation to confess Sins tho scandalous in their own nature yet not become notorious tho that differed much from the Confession which is now used in the Roman Church was first introduced after the Persecution by Decius and that in opposition to the Novatians as Socrates affirms and this was also afterwards taken away by Nectarius Bishop of Constantinople who ordered every one to be left to his own Conscience in that matter for which other Bishops were so far from censuring him that they followed him in it almost in all places as the same Historian tells us and that omission was vehemently pleaded for by St. Chrysostom and obtained for no small time in the Greek Church whatsoever it did in other places Whence it follows that She has power in discretion to determine concernining its actual practice what She thinks fit 2. Farther this being supposed that it was in our Churches power not to Impose it that She did act prudently in not Imposing it but rather recommending it to the Liberty of private Devotions will appear if it be considered that if She had imposed it She must necessarily have excluded all such from her Communion as had not been satisfied with it and it had not been Prudent to have excluded Persons from her Communion for Indifferent things avoidable by her when She was complaining of the like Tyranny in the Church of Rome especially considering that it was also likely that the number was great of those who were so dissatisfied with it However if the Gentlewoman be desirous to Practice it for her own Edification I believe She may be furnished with Persons fitted for it in the Church of England 3. As for the use of Holy Oyl in any of the pretended Sacraments we do not so far condemn it as to refuse Communion with other Churches that use it nay we our Selves retain it as a decent Ceremony of Consecration in the Coronations of our Princes Only we again conceive it 1. A matter indifferent in it self and not Essential to those Offices because of the differences in the Church concerning it 2. This being supposed our Church does no way conceive it Prudent to continue it both because it was the design of the Reformation to reduce the Sacraments to their Primitive Simplicity that so Persons might Communicate in them on the same free terms as then and because the Errors of those who made them Essential to the Mysteries were of great Consequence and very fit to be so discountenanced by a discontinuance of the Practice it self If by the Holy Oyl here mentioned he meant particularly their Sacrament of Extreme Vnction 1. Our Adversaries cannot prove a Sacramental Vnction for the first Centuries A Miraculous one they may but seeing themselves confess the ordinary Use of the Miracle to have ceased there is no necessary reason obliging our Church to continue the external Ceremony This is at least sufficient to shew that it is in the Churches power to continue it or not Which being supposed I add 2. That even in regard of the benefit expected by it whether of Bodily recovery or remission of sins or Spiritual strength against the Agony of Death the Gentlewoman nor any other Subject of our Church can suffer no loss by our Church's discontinuance of it For all these things are as certainly attainable by the means continued in our Church from Unquestionable Apostolical Tradition as the Prayers and Absolution of the Priest and the Blessed Sacrament as they could by the Vnction it self so that I cannot perceive how a devout Person need to be concerned for the want of it on the terms now mentioned Especially considering 3. That in the way it is Administred among them to Persons past hopes of recovery and usually past sense of their own condition it cannot be conceived in any rational way capable of Edifying the Devotion of the Person concerned and no other way is suitable to the Dispensation of the Gospel And supposing it no Sacrament there is no reason imaginable why the Prayers of the Assistants for such a Person may not be as acceptable to God without the observation of this external Ceremony as with it And as upon these concessions its Continuance must needs appear unnecessary so 4. It would be inexpedient to countenance the Errors consequent to the Opinion of its being a Sacrament which are of so weighty a concernment by continuance of a Custom which may so easily be spared These things may suffice at present for satisfying the Gentlewoman of her little concernment for it without engaging on the Dispute concerning
conceived most clear and comprehensive in few words and yet withal most accurate and satisfactory to a doubting Person For any one may be much more secure of a Consequence when he is first secured of all its Principles and he can much better judge of them when he has an intire Prospect of them in the natural Order wherein they lye and wherein they are necessary for the deduction of such a Consequence Yet I have neither deduced my Principles too remotely but as near as I could find them clear and indisputable Nor have we insisted on the Proof of those that were clear any further than I conceived it necessary to do so from the actual Disputes concerning the Consequence And I have been careful rather to prove than to confute which I conceived to be a course as less Invidious to Adversaries who should find themselves no further concerned than as the consequences of positive Truths might make them concern'd so also more satisfactory to a Person in the Gentlewomans condition And in the whole I am so little conscious of any design of displeasing any to whom Truth it self might not prove displeasing as that if any Adversary shall think it worth his time to Answer what I have said I am not my self afraid of Provocation from any thing which he can say in following my Precedent THE CONTENTS Qu. 1. WHether any one going from the Church of England and dying a Roman Catholick can be saved Page 1. Q. 2. Whether they be Idolaters or No 11. Q. 3. Where was the Church of England before Luther's time 14 Q. 4. Why all the Reformed Churches are not Vnited in One 22 Q. 5. Why the Church of England doth not hold up to Confession Fasting-days Holy Oyl which we our Selves commend 26 Q. 6. Why was Reformation done by Act of Parliament 29 AN ANSWER TO SIX QUERIES c. Q. 1. Whether any one going from the Church of ENGLAND and dying a Roman Catholick can be saved I. IF by the words can be saved be meant a possibility in regard of the MEANS we then deny it For we hold that such Errors are maintained in that Communion as are in their own nature destructive af Salvation Such are 1. The Doctrines even of their * Vid. Consid of Pros Concern Church which oblige them to do mischief as those concerning the Popes Supremacy over Princes in Temporals and concerning their Duty of prosecuting Hereticks The † For the Jesuites see the Provinc Lett. and the Moral Theolog. of the Jesuites and for the rest of that Communion the Jesuites defence of themselves by way of recrimination against others loosness of their Casuistical Divinity countenanced by such Authorities of Casuists as must needs influence such Persons as act conformably to the Principles of that Communion and their generally allowing a greater Liberty to such Persons as are desirous to reconcile their Vices with their hopes of Eternity by their licentious Applications of those two Distinctions of Precepts and Counsels and of Mortal and Venial Sins whereby they make most Duties Counsels and most Sins only Venial Which danger is the more considerable to an ignorant Person who for want of Skill of her own must in Prudence and by the Principles of that Communion be obliged to trust such unsecure Guides 2. Not to mention the ill Influence of several of their Doctrines on the Lives of such as own them the very imposing them as matters of Faith the Excommunicating and Anathematizing all that deny them the condemning Dissenters as guiity of Heresie and Schism at least what they call Material the inserting several of their controverted Doctrines into their Liturgies so that they who cannot believe them cannot veraciously joyn with them in their Devotions are Innovations from the liberty allowed in the Primitive Church wherein many whom all own for excellent Persons and good Catholicks never owned nay some of them doubted of or contradicted such conditions of Communion in sum their unreasonable grounds of dividing Catholick Communion and their Vncharitableness to Dissenters are Errors dangerous to the Salvation of the Person owning and abetting them For all will own even the Romanists themselves that the Crime of breaking Catholick Communion where it is justly imputed is destructive of Salvation 3. Several Abuses of that Church I say of the Church not only of particular Persons in it are so gross as that several of the most eminent and candid men of their own Communion have owned them for such such as Prayer in an unknown Tongue denying the Chalice to the Laity Fabulous Saints and Stories still continued in the best approved Ecclesiastical Offices Martyrs canonized for bad Causes conducing to the greatness of the Roman See as Becket for Example Yet by the Principles of that Communion pretending to Infallibility it is impossible that any Abuse in defence of which their Church is engaged as She is here should ever be reformed because it is impossible that a Church so pretending to be Infallible should ever grant any such thing to be an Abuse And many more abuses are by the moderate Persons of their Communion owned in the Court of Rome which yet by the power allowed to the Court over their Church by the general consent of the Church it self cannot possibly be reformed Seeing therefore that the Church of Rome does thus oppose all possible Reformation of Abuses of this nature and seeing that whilst these Abuses are not reformed many of them may justifie a Separation and most of them may do it when all hopes of Reformation are professedly opposed Catholick Peace on such terms as may not only lawfully but commendably be yielded will be impossible And the abetting of such a Party as makes Catholick Peace on just terms impossible must needs be an Error destructive of Salvation This is a mischief unavoidably consequent to mistakes in a Society pretending to be Infallible As these Errors are thus of their own nature destructive of Salvation so going over to that Communion from another does naturally involve the Person doing so in the actual guilt of the Errors themselves 1. Because Communicating according to all does involve the Persons communicating in the guilt of such Errors at least as are imposed as conditions of the Communion as these are in the Church of Rome This needs not to be proved against the Romanists who insist on it against Us as much as We do against them 2. This must especially hold in such as revolt from our Church to theirs both because such an embracing of their Communion is more an Argument of choice and designed preference in such as leave others to come to it than in such as are born in it and consequently must signifie a more express approbation of the Terms of it and because more explicite recantation of our Doctrines are required even from Laick Revolters than from such as are born in it 3. Because the Resignation of Judgment is expected more intire from Women and