Selected quad for the lemma: church_n
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A91714
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A review of a certain pamphlet under the name of one John Lilburne. By a well-willer to the peace of Sion. Imprimatur. John Downame.
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Well-Willer to the Peace of Sion.
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1645
(1645)
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Wing R1196; Thomason E278_4; ESTC R200010
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12,165
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15
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of the Apostles to have ended this controversie acting by a spirit inspired from on high what means that consultation of the Apostles and Elders verse 6. Unlesse to give us to understand that though they had a power as they were inspired by God yet they did not put forth that power but referred it to publique disputation with the Elders as more authontique and as a way more effectuall to draw the Churches to yeeld submission to what should be determined of which you may see came to passe afterwards verse 21. and if they had sate in the capacity of Apostles I demand what light the Elders could adde to them that they by immediate inspiration did not decide the controversie but to hold forth a patterne for after ages to look upon and to be guided by and to let us know that though there be a power in particular congregations in suo ordine yet publique determinations of a Synod of godly men is the surest way to end strife in the Church of God 9. The ninth charge flies in the face of Mr. Pryn who you say hath incited men to wage warre against the King of Saints and his redeemed ones My soule is at strife within it selfe to find out whom you mean by this King of Saints and redeemed ones whether it be all or any one of the quinque ecclesian Ministers and the people belonging to there independant Churches these redeemed ones If this be your meaning as I cannot imagine other wayes against these and yet not properly against these but against their tenents and notions is Master Pryn entred into battaile to plead true Christian lierties part in behalfe of those that are unjustly charge as fighters against it But if you intended it of Jesus Christ God and man who truly is King of Saints and no other my soule longs for a manifestation of this warfare that I may know as well as you when it was begun against Christ and his redeemed ones where and after what manner this warfare is carried on And let me know by what means I may be assured these whom you stile redeemed ones are his and none besides them for your words be are this construction without straying I have looked into their lives their conversations and beheld their outward commerce and trafficking in the world for take them amongst the communion of Saints and know them no more nay in a lesser measure than Judas was known for a traitour while he remained with the twelve and I cannot see how you can stampe this impression upon them by way of priviledge and prerogative before many of those on whom your eye is sixed with indignation For love faith obedience and selfe-deniall wherein do they excell others that their superiours may not be brought to termes of equality with them nay wherein have many of them if any of them out-stript the very blindnesse of our progenitours who will certainly rise to judge and condemne this Generation of Professours for the neglect of and the not conscionably practising according to that light they professe themselves possessed with and to have exceeded all mon in Surely 〈◊〉 darknesse which overshadows light is comprehended of the light much more will light that is of genuine nature dissipate and annihilate the false rising of fading vapours that for a season to outward view are glorious and excellent 10. The tenth charge against Mr. Pryn runs thus In that he hath stirred up the Potentates of the earth to pluck the Crowne of Christ of his head his Scepter out of his hand and himself out of his Throne Weightier accusations criminations and criminations were never laid on any mans shoulders then this you would make Mr. Pryn to beare where is your proofe for this I professe I want light to dive into the bottom of this work of darknesse and none am I able to procure from you but ten degrees more of obscurity I am not satisfied in your menning when you speak of the Crown the Scepter and the Throne of Christ glorious yea and transcendently excellent they be but where shall I find them let me see And when Scripture hath spoken and reason hath given in its voyce you can prove that these are to be found in the way of Independency and in no way else or that they have more excellency cast upon them by reason of that glorious in manifestation of them in this way above others And if my Arguments when weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary shall be found too light and unable to gain-say yours my heart hand and all shall give place to you and you shall have the right-hand of fellowship in procuring a blessed and happy union For my own particular I have examined as I am able what ever Mr. Pryn hath done and have not met with any grounds or reasons of this your judgement This I find that to the utmost of my endevours human frailty excepted he hath exalted Christs Kingdome and laboured with the strength of his abilities to keep the Crown on the head of Christ and to make his Scepter an everlasting Scepter But whereas you give us to understand what you have done and do for Christ in exaltation of him and him alone yet I find you and all of yee are silent of your failings in the right performance of it as if yee were already deified I beseech yee to examine well your inward man and then tell me whether much of the glory of God be not eclypsed through your infirmities how have yee sought the honour of God and preferred it above all things when your own honour steps in and robs God of his due Is there not an eye looking too much to private advantage destitute of that singlenesse of heart which of right should take place in those that assume the priviledge of being Christ exalters What else portends that daily apostasie of so many of yee that from glistering stars of light as I have judged yee are descended almost to an expiring glimmering 11. The eleventh Charge against Mr. Pryn stands thus That he should affirme Christ hath left no rule in his Word for the government of his Church I affirme the same in that sense by him delivered but so speaking as you have laid it down there is not to be produced any one passage so much as looking that way This he hath laid down as a Truth which never was nor can be disproved that Jesus Christ in his Word hath left a rule for the substantiall part of worship and discipline and some few circumstances yet left many things which belong to the well-being of a Church as they relate to circumstantials whether of time or place c. which are to be ordered in the severall ages and successions of the Churches of Christ according to the state and condition thereof then existing as may best conduce to the glory of God the Churches peace and the good of the Common-wealth But if you would have perfection in all things
kingdom which is on high but condescend not in their interpretation to a temporall Monarchy of Christ on earth the opinion of the Apostatized Jewes which seemes to me you clearly hint at 3. To third Proposition I answer by way of concession that Christs Kingdom is spirituall as it is in the hearts and soules of his Elect but that it should subsist on earth without relation to outward administration I find not nor can you contend for without the disanulling of your own principles 4. To your fourth I judge not the ordinary power of Civill Magistrates to consist in making lawes for the Church it being peculiar to those which are within the Church and belonging to the Church as Pastors and Elders c. Secondly the power of Magistracy is civill the power of the Church is spirituall The civill Magistrate handleth Church matters as they have relation to the body politique in judging what is prejudiciall to the Common-weale but the Church handle them as they may tend to edification So that I say the civill power is above Church-men simply so considered as they stand members of a Christian Common wealth And the Church is above the Magistrate as he is a member thereunto belonging who is to be edified thereby or censured in point of scandall And look as the civill Magistrate hath no power intrinsecally Ecclesiasticall over the Church or its members which of its self is supreme under Christs the King thereof In like manner the Church hath no politique power above the Magistrates who are supreame and accountable to none but God That I be not misconstrued in his particular be pleased to take this caution that my meaning is not as if they were no wayes accountable to the Parliament the supreame Judicatory neither doe I intend to make of no effect the publique Declamtions of Parliament actions to the whole Kingdome which is necessary for whom and by whom they are entrusted with a superlative power But this that they stand not bound in a particular way to give account to every particular person but in the Generall That is my meaning And although the Church may be and subsist without Magistracy yet it is very usefull to the Church when Christian for the preservation of the publique Peace in case of Schismes or dissentions by punishing the disturbers thereof which is not in the power of the Church to do 5. To the fifth and last I am not of opinion that persecution for conscience is an emblem of righteousnesse and I think no man hath ever pleaded for such a wickednesse it any have I professe they are so far estranged from me that I never saw or read any such doctrine of devils yet for the clearing of this I judge a distinction or two not unseasonable 1. I am to consider of conscience truly so that is ms led and in darknesse yet willing to receive informati n and instruction that it may be enlightned And 2. Between a man full of opinions and conceits mis-led in judgement pleading conscience and making it a refuge to shelter false hood maskt over with the garment of Truth which is so far from being reclaimed that obstinately he persists and holds on in his imaginations to the destruction of himselfe the stumbling if not perpetuall falling of many others 3. I must consider of conscience as it looks upon truths represented to it to be errours that such a conscience is none of Gods deputy to which I am so far bound to yeeld obedience as absolutely to reject truths as errors because I so judge But as they come under the notion of errour and conscience so esteems them it may be tollerable where there is hearty endevour to attaine better instruction Lastly I am to look upon conscience as it relates to the action or the manner of performing it in the latter I confesse there may be and often is a divine Majesty awing the conscience that it dares not receive or undertake a necessary Truth nor a lawfull action by reason of a command that lyes upon the one or the other yet I am not to reject them as altogether sinfull but as inexpedient till these impediments be removed And so I have done with your Propositions 8. The eighth thing to be considered of is your condemnation and reprobation of Synods and Councels c. To this my Answer is That there is a lawfull and necessary use to be made of them with out derogating from Scripture principles in regard it oftentimes fals out that in Church government we are to seek in regard of the right ordering many circumstances As it was in the times of the Apostles whom I never find to have attained to that compleatnesse in externall government as is now pursued with so much eagernesse but they did vary and change according to the Churches paucity or plenitude except in substantials which we have in as large a measure if not larger than they had But for absolute rules in all things from which none might vary those purer times were not guilty of such a thing for ought I can find much lesse this degenerate and back sliding age into which we are falne In this condition we now stand in what course may better be taken Scripture being silent then to consult with and lay before us the practice of primitive Christians and their successours whether in Synods or Councels aui altier to draw from them some light to help us out in what we are ignorant of or may Hile in through the want of light to guid us in the due Performance hereof and so much the more because our contention depends not upon things that are to be beleeved as necessary to salvation a wonderfull mistake amongst seduced soules but relates to some circumstances in and about the worship of God what is most convenient to be practised And experience might let you see if not wilfully blinded that those dark times attained to more simplicity of godlinesse than this great light so much applauded for incomprehesiblenesse did ever reach up to Now I appeale to your own conscience whether there be not more reason to follow the steps of that little light which was but like the dawning of a day who had eyes singly fixed upon the glory of their Creator than run after new light by many degrees worse than darknesse of which there is too much in these dayes which is by ast with politique ends and ayms in a larger measure than with Truth and the Churches peace which hath not been set before their eyes as the chiefe pearle of price but mastery The necessity of Synods c. is farther asserted from Acts 15. for the ending matters of strife which arise in the Church too great for the decision of particular Congregations There I find a Synod or Councell called by reason of an errour spread abroad in the point of Circumcision to the subversion of many soules as verse 1 2. do demonstrate Now if it had been in the power