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church_n according_a paul_n zion_n 19 3 8.3771 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A11509 An apology, or, apologiticall answere, made by Father Paule a Venetian, of the order of Serui, vnto the exceptions and obiections of Cardinall Bellarmine, against certaine treatises and resolutions of Iohn Gerson, concerning the force and validitie of excommunication. First published in Italian, and now translated into English. Seene and allowed by publicke authoritie; Apologia per le oppositioni fatte dall' illustrissimo & reverendissimo signor cardinale Bellarminio alli trattati, et risolutioni di Gio. Gersone. English Sarpi, Paolo, 1552-1623. 1607 (1607) STC 21757; ESTC S116732 122,825 141

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when_o the_o high_a steward_n of_o god_n house_n do_v mis-behave_a himself_o it_o be_v not_o god_n pleasure_n that_o the_o family_n shall_v proceed_v against_o he_o but_o reserve_v to_o himself_o the_o power_n both_o to_o judge_v and_o punish_v he_o so_o that_o according_a to_o the_o scripture_n the_o church_n and_o consequent_o the_o council_n which_o be_v a_o representation_n of_o the_o church_n have_v no_o power_n over_o the_o pope_n it_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o appeal_v from_o the_o pope_n to_o the_o council_n but_o contrary_o that_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o appeal_v from_o the_o council_n to_o the_o pope_n there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o write_v so_o much_o upon_o this_o matter_n in_o regard_n of_o those_o few_o word_n wherewithal_o gerson_n have_v touch_v it_o and_o for_o my_o part_n i_o will_v forbear_v to_o allege_v that_o which_o gerson_n &_o other_o of_o the_o same_o opinion_n do_v answer_v paulo_n friar_n paulo_n be_v it_o not_o that_o i_o will_v not_o 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have_v say_v in_o the_o first_o that_o be_v that_o that_o council_n have_v most_o express_o determine_v and_o have_v say_v that_o it_o be_v in_o doubt_n whether_o that_o be_v a_o determination_n the_o common_a judgement_n of_o all_o the_o divine_n be_v that_o the_o reason_n which_o be_v use_v in_o a_o determination_n be_v not_o intend_v themselves_o also_o to_o be_v determine_v and_o it_o shall_v be_v a_o marvellous_a strange_a matter_n that_o frame_v a_o decree_n of_o a_o particular_a thing_n such_o as_o be_v the_o revocation_n of_o the_o pragmatic_n which_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n a_o article_n of_o faith_n shall_v incidental_o be_v determine_v so_o that_o the_o principal_n shall_v not_o be_v of_o faith_n and_o the_o accessary_a shall_v of_o necessity_n be_v of_o faith_n the_o parisian_n add_v far_o that_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v authority_n above_o the_o council_n there_o be_v bring_v in_o that_o place_n a_o number_n of_o history_n not_o so_o few_o as_o fifteen_o and_o last_o the_o book_n of_o aimarus_n de_fw-fr synodis_fw-la whereupon_o we_o be_v to_o say_v that_o all_o those_o history_n be_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la and_o the_o parisian_n show_v plain_o that_o some_o of_o those_o history_n recite_v faithful_o do_v say_v the_o contrary_n but_o it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o here_o to_o produce_v so_o many_o particular_n some_o also_o make_v answer_n that_o the_o bull_n do_v not_o say_v that_o the_o pope_n have_v authority_n above_o the_o counsel_n but_o it_o say_v that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v aver_v out_o of_o the_o divine_a scripture_n and_o out_o of_o the_o say_n of_o the_o father_n and_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o canon_n &_o counsel_n that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v authority_n above_o the_o general_a counsel_n so_o that_o it_o be_v not_o intend_v to_o be_v otherways_o true_a then_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o that_o averment_n may_v be_v justify_v therefore_o first_o that_o proof_n must_v be_v produce_v constat_fw-la quatenus_fw-la inde_fw-la constat_fw-la and_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o say_n of_o the_o father_n must_v be_v see_v see_v the_o council_n do_v not_o affirm_v it_o as_o of_o itself_o but_o with_o reference_n that_o be_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o the_o scripture_n and_o those_o other_o thing_n allege_v make_v proof_n thereof_o an_o other_o doctor_n propose_v another_o difficulty_n much_o great_a that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o bull_n of_o this_o council_n it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n ordain_v peter_n and_o his_o successor_n to_o be_v his_o vicar_n unto_o who_o as_o be_v testify_v in_o the_o book_n of_o king_n obedience_n be_v so_o necessary_a that_o he_o which_o do_v not_o obey_v be_v to_o die_v the_o death_n which_o if_o it_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n be_v a_o very_a severe_a one_o that_o all_o disobedience_n to_o the_o pope_n shall_v be_v punish_v with_o death_n and_o certain_o the_o world_n have_v not_o receive_v it_o neither_o happy_o ever_o will_n the_o same_o doctor_n add_v far_a that_o he_o can_v conceive_v how_o so_o many_o year_n before_o there_o be_v any_o pope_n there_o shall_v be_v speech_n of_o he_o in_o the_o book_n of_o king_n afterward_o he_o say_v that_o he_o have_v read_v all_o the_o 4._o book_n of_o the_o king_n and_o never_o yet_o find_v there_o any_o such_o matter_n but_o let_v we_o leave_v the_o authority_n of_o this_o council_n see_v the_o doctor_n which_o follow_v gerson_n do_v not_o receive_v it_o and_o each_o of_o the_o eight_o answer_n make_v unto_o it_o do_v of_o itself_o dissolve_v the_o argument_n for_o a_o conclusion_n the_o author_n bring_v forth_o as_o it_o be_v for_o a_o achilles_n a_o reason_n found_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n say_v but_o let_v we_o see_v if_o the_o reason_n found_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n bellarmine_n bellarmine_n do_v testify_v the_o self_n same_o verity_n the_o holy_a church_n be_v not_o like_a to_o the_o commonwealth_n of_o venice_n or_o of_o geneva_n or_o of_o other_o city_n which_o confer_v upon_o their_o duke_n that_o power_n which_o themselves_o please_v in_o regard_n whereof_o it_o may_v be_v say_v that_o the_o commonwealth_n be_v above_o the_o prince_n neither_o yet_o be_v it_o like_v to_o a_o earthly_a kingdom_n in_o which_o the_o people_n transfer_v their_o own_o authority_n unto_o the_o monarch_n and_o in_o certain_a case_n may_v free_v themselves_o from_o royal_a dominion_n and_o reduce_v themselves_o to_o the_o government_n of_o inferior_a magistrate_n as_o do_v the_o roman_n when_o they_o pass_v from_o dominion_n royal_a to_o consulare_fw-la government_n for_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v a_o most_o perfect_a kingdom_n and_o a_o absolute_a monarchy_n which_o have_v no_o dependence_n upon_o the_o people_n neither_o from_o they_o have_v his_o original_n but_o depend_v only_o upon_o the_o divine_a will_n and_o i_o say_v christ_n in_o the_o second_o psalm_n be_o constitute_v a_o king_n by_o he_o over_o zion_n his_o holy_a mountain_n and_o the_o holy_a angel_n say_v to_o the_o virgin_n luc._n 1._o our_o lord_n god_n shall_v give_v he_o the_o seat_n of_o david_n his_o father_n and_o he_o shall_v reign_v in_o the_o house_n of_o jacob_n for_o ever_o and_o of_o his_o kingdom_n there_o shall_v be_v no_o end_n and_o in_o a_o thousand_o other_o place_n the_o same_o be_v read_v and_o that_o this_o kingdom_n do_v not_o depend_v on_o man_n christ_n show_v when_o he_o say_v you_o choose_v not_o i_o but_o i_o choose_v you_o joan._n 15._o and_o we_o shall_v ackhowledge_v it_o at_o what_o time_n we_o shall_v say_v thou_o have_v make_v we_o to_o our_o god_n a_o kingdom_n apoc._n 5._o and_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n why_o this_o kingdom_n be_v in_o the_o scripture_n resemble_v to_o a_o family_n who_o be_v a_o faithful_a and_o wise_a servant_n who_o his_o lord_n have_v appoint_v over_o his_o family_n mat._n 24._o because_o the_o father_n of_o a_o family_n do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o family_n neither_o from_o thence_o have_v his_o authority_n now_o this_o being_n most_o true_a there_o follow_v thereof_o by_o necessary_a consequence_n that_o the_o vicar_n general_a of_o christ_n do_v not_o depend_v of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o of_o christ_n from_o who_o he_o have_v his_o whole_a authority_n as_o also_o we_o see_v in_o earthly_a kingdom_n that_o the_o viceroy_n have_v not_o his_o authority_n from_o the_o kingdom_n but_o from_o the_o king_n neither_o can_v be_v judge_v or_o punish_v by_o the_o people_n but_o only_o by_o his_o lord_n &_o master_n behold_v therefore_o how_o gerson_n be_v deceive_v and_o he_o also_o that_o do_v follow_v he_o and_o go_v contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n of_o the_o sacred_a counsel_n and_o of_o manifest_a reason_n paolo_n ●rier_n paolo_n thou_o shall_v see_v here_o reader_n a_o marvellous_a piece_n of_o art_n wherewith_o the_o author_n will_v lead_v thou_o from_o christ_n the_o eternal_a high_a bishop_n to_o a_o high_a bishop_n temporal_a and_o when_o he_o shall_v have_v settle_v with_o thou_o the_o relation_n which_o the_o holy_a church_n have_v towards_o the_o divine_a majesty_n he_o will_v afterward_o conclude_v of_o the_o relation_n towards_o the_o pope_n the_o parisian_n do_v answer_n that_o thus_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_n do_v hold_v that_o god_n have_v call_v the_o church_n to_o the_o faith_n and_o his_o worship_n and_o that_o he_o have_v place_v christ_n over_o it_o for_o a_o head_n for_o ever_o who_o first_o himself_o mortal_a do_v govern_v it_o on_o earth_n with_o corporal_a presence_n but_o ascend_v into_o heaven_n do_v rule_v it_o with_o inward_a influence_n &_o assistance_n invisible_a unto_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n this_o be_v mean_v by_o i_o be_o constitute_v a_o king_n by_o he_o this_o mean_v that_o our_o lord_n god_n shall_v
have_v it_o many_o limitation_n for_o the_o force_n must_v be_v unjust_a and_o such_o as_o have_v no_o redress_n but_o by_o force_n the_o resistance_n must_v be_v immediate_a and_o other_o thing_n as_o silvester_n show_v verb._n bellum_n 2._o and_o the_o other_o doctor_n which_o handle_v this_o matter_n and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v not_o apply_v to_o certain_a particular_n with_o great_a discretion_n it_o be_v cause_n of_o exceed_v great_a disorder_n when_o the_o sergeant_n arrest_v a_o man_n and_o bind_v his_o hand_n no_o question_n they_o offer_v he_o violence_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o he_o to_o use_v violence_n against_o the_o sergeant_n under_o pretext_n that_o violence_n may_v with_o violence_n be_v resist_v semblable_o when_o the_o galleyslave_n be_v tie_v to_o the_o bench_n of_o the_o galley_n and_o with_o many_o a_o sharp_a stroke_n be_v constrain_v to_o row_n who_o doubt_v but_o that_o great_a violence_n be_v use_v towards_o they_o &_o yet_o notwitstand_v no_o man_n of_o judgement_n will_v say_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o they_o under_o the_o same_o pretence_n to_o offer_v violence_n to_o the_o comito_n likewise_o when_o one_o be_v force_v by_o his_o superior_a either_o ecclesiastical_a or_o secular_a to_o make_v restitution_n to_o another_o of_o his_o good_n or_o of_o his_o good_a name_n or_o to_o keep_v faith_n &_o his_o promise_n it_o can_v be_v say_v that_o he_o who_o so_o be_v force_v may_v resist_v with_o force_n &_o turn_v himself_o against_o his_o superior_a and_o to_o pass_v over_o infinite_a other_o example_n when_o sometime_o the_o magistrate_n or_o prince_n impose_v burden_n upon_o the_o people_n and_o constrain_v they_o to_o pay_v they_o i_o trow_v they_o will_v not_o be_v please_v that_o any_o shall_v teach_v the_o people_n to_o raise_v rebellion_n under_o colour_n that_o vim_o vi_fw-la repellere_fw-la licet_fw-la and_o what_o great_a confusion_n will_v there_o be_v in_o house_n and_o in_o city_n and_o in_o kingdom_n if_o to_o every_o force_n force_n may_v be_v oppose_v with_o say_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a by_o natural_a reason_n to_o make_v resistance_n with_o violence_n to_o violence_n but_o if_o we_o speak_v of_o the_o force_n which_o prelate_n do_v use_v when_o by_o the_o censure_n they_o constrain_v their_o subject_n to_o obey_v certain_a it_o be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o make_v resistance_n with_o force_n for_o if_o he_o who_o will_v not_o hear_v the_o church_n aught_o to_o be_v unto_o we_o according_a to_o the_o commandment_n of_o the_o lord_n as_o a_o gentile_a and_o publican_n certain_o he_o who_o with_o force_n will_v resist_v the_o church_n aught_o to_o be_v unto_o we_o worse_o than_o gentile_a &_o publican_n and_o as_o for_o recourse_n to_o secular_a prince_n in_o matter_n of_o excommunication_n the_o sacred_a council_n of_o trent_n have_v already_o provide_v express_o sesse_n 25._o cap_n 3._o forbid_v secular_a prince_n that_o they_o hinder_v not_o prelate_n so_o that_o they_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v neither_o command_n that_o the_o excommunicationes_fw-la already_o go_v forth_o be_v revoke_v consider_v that_o this_o be_v no_o part_n of_o their_o office_n last_o if_o we_o come_v to_o the_o business_n which_o be_v at_o this_o day_n in_o hand_n it_o be_v beside_o all_o purpose_n to_o produce_v that_o principle_n vim_o vi_fw-la repellere_fw-la licet_fw-la for_o the_o force_n which_o our_o lord_n use_v to_o the_o common_a wealth_n of_o venice_n be_v a_o fatherly_a and_o just_a force_n conform_v to_o the_o scripture_n and_o sacred_a canon_n &_o use_v in_o all_o time_n by_o the_o prelate_n of_o holy_a church_n and_o the_o remedy_n be_v plain_a and_o ready_a without_o recourse_n to_o force_n or_o to_o help_v of_o prince_n namely_o obedience_n and_o humility_n without_o which_o all_o other_o remedy_n be_v vain_a in_o the_o ten_o consideration_n paolo_n friar_n paolo_n if_o to_o say_v that_o to_o the_o force_n of_o pretend_a sentence_n resistance_n may_v by_o law_n of_o nature_n be_v make_v by_o force_n be_v a_o doctrine_n pernicious_a then_o have_v cardinal_n bellarmine_n teach_v a_o pernicious_a doctrine_n in_o his_o book_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n which_o we_o have_v before_o allege_v where_o with_o most_o clear_a word_n he_o do_v establish_v this_o sentence_n and_o of_o the_o selfsame_o perniciousnes_n be_v the_o cardinal_n turrceremata_fw-la and_o castane_a author_n allege_v by_o he_o and_o domimcus_fw-la soco_fw-la and_o franciscus_n victorius_n and_o other_o modern_a writer_n innumerable_a who_o follow_v one_o another_o confirm_v this_o sentence_n and_o it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o infinite_a scandal_n may_v grow_v out_o of_o this_o doctrine_n nay_o rather_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v that_o out_o of_o the_o contrary_a they_o will_v arise_v indeed_o for_o so_o shall_v tyranny_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n which_o as_o a_o public_a fault_n be_v more_o pernicious_a even_o as_o no_o more_o true_a be_v it_o that_o by_o this_o doctrine_n there_o will_v grow_v confusion_n in_o house_n and_o city_n because_o every_o one_o may_v defend_v himself_o from_o the_o sergeant_n from_o the_o comito_n in_o galley_n and_o from_o the_o prince_n which_o cause_v they_o to_o pay_v imposition_n for_o two_o which_o strive_v together_o can_v both_o have_v right_a on_o their_o side_n but_o neade_n must_v it_o be_v that_o if_o he_o which_o use_v force_n do_v it_o lawful_o the_o defence_n be_v unlawful_a and_o where_o the_o defence_n be_v lawful_a the_o force_n must_v needs_o be_v unlawful_a the_o author_n know_v very_o well_o though_o here_o he_o dissemble_v it_o that_o when_o the_o law_n say_v vim_o vi_o repellere_fw-la licit_fw-la it_o mean_v of_o that_o force_n which_o be_v unjust_o use_v and_o therefore_o the_o universal_a be_v not_o true_a which_o he_o draw_v when_o he_o say_v if_o to_o every_o force_n force_n may_v be_v oppose_v neither_o the_o law_n nor_o gerson_n nor_o any_o man_n else_o have_v say_v that_o all_o force_n may_v be_v by_o force_n resist_v the_o consequence_n therefore_o of_o the_o sergeant_n and_o of_o the_o cometo_n and_o of_o the_o prince_n who_o levy_v just_a imposition_n do_v not_o follow_v neither_o that_o of_o the_o magistrate_n who_o condemn_v to_o restitution_n of_o good_n or_o good_a name_n or_o to_o keep_v his_o promise_n because_o these_o be_v lawful_a force_n the_o consequence_n which_o he_o deduce_v of_o the_o force_n which_o the_o ecclesiastical_a use_v be_v well_o to_o the_o purpose_n when_o he_o intermeddle_v in_o cause_v to_o make_v restitution_n of_o good_n good_a name_n or_o perform_v of_o promise_n which_o be_v thing_n appertain_v to_o the_o seculare_fw-la in_o which_o the_o ecclesiastical_a have_v not_o to_o intrude_v himself_o save_v only_o in_o foro_fw-la paenitentiae_fw-la in_o auricular_a confession_n but_o whenas_o the_o author_n say_v that_o if_o we_o speak_v of_o the_o force_n which_o prelate_n do_v use_v when_o by_o the_o censure_n they_o constrain_v their_o subject_n to_o obey_v certain_a it_o be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o make_v resistance_n with_o force_n for_o if_o he_o who_o will_v not_o obey_v the_o church_n aught_o to_o be_v as_o a_o gentile_a and_o publican_n so_o much_o worse_o he_o that_o will_v make_v resistance_n with_o force_n here_o he_o speak_v either_o universal_o of_o all_o censure_n comprise_v also_o those_o which_o be_v not_o of_o validity_n or_o else_o only_o of_o those_o which_o have_v validity_n if_o he_o speak_v of_o all_o and_o it_o be_v the_o author_n meaning_n that_o to_o make_v resistance_n to_o censure_n which_o be_v nul_fw-fr be_v worse_o than_o to_o be_v a_o gentile_a it_o be_v a_o doctrine_n absurd_a false_a erroneous_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o foresay_a cardinal_n and_o of_o bellarmine_n himself_o but_o if_o he_o mean_v of_o they_o only_o which_o have_v validity_n it_o be_v exceed_o good_a doctrine_n and_o not_o contrary_a to_o gerson_n yea_o rather_o confirm_v by_o he_o for_o gerson_n in_o the_o consideration_n speak_v of_o pretence_a censure_n which_o be_v not_o iuridicall_a but_o violence_n &_o if_o any_o assemby_a pronounce_v forth_o such_o it_o be_v not_o call_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n neither_o be_v christ_n there_o present_a and_o he_o that_o do_v not_o hear_v it_o be_v a_o good_a christian_a &_o so_o teach_v the_o canon_n which_o be_v cite_v by_o gratian._n 11._o quest_n 3._o of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o can_v err_v it_o be_v always_o true_a that_o he_o be_v to_o be_v reckon_v for_o a_o gentile_a that_o do_v not_o hear_v it_o and_o he_o worse_o that_o shall_v resist_v it_o because_o the_o defence_n will_v be_v unjust_a against_o so_o just_a a_o precept_n consider_v that_o it_o never_o deliver_v other_o word_n than_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n but_o if_o by_o the_o church_n be_v