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church_n according_a law_n zion_n 70 3 9.2011 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A56638 A continuation of the Friendly debate by the same author. Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.; Wild, Robert, 1609-1679.; Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. 1669 (1669) Wing P779; ESTC R7195 171,973 266

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than_o those_o who_o have_v some_o sense_n in_o they_o from_o your_o great_a champion_n mr._n cartwright_n he_o tell_v you_o express_o that_o by_o offence_n the_o apostle_n do_v not_o intend_v that_o which_o displease_v or_o discontent_n but_o that_o whereby_o occasion_n be_v give_v to_o any_o of_o transgress_v against_o the_o law_n of_o god_n for_o he_o be_v treat_v of_o eat_a thing_n offer_v to_o idol_n even_o in_o the_o temple_n of_o idol_n or_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o such_o as_o be_v endanger_v thereby_o the_o gentile_n be_v harden_v in_o their_o idolatry_n the_o jew_n provoke_v against_o christianity_n and_o some_o christian_n draw_v by_o such_o example_n to_o follow_v they_o doubt_o take_v now_o the_o word_n in_o this_o proper_a sense_n and_o i_o shall_v be_v clear_v from_o this_o imputation_n and_o you_o yourselves_o condemn_v for_o look_v no_o better_o to_o your_o foot_n that_o they_o go_v not_o awry_o n._n c._n how_o so_o c._n it_o be_v the_o very_a design_n of_o my_o 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shame_n but_o when_o the_o same_o sickness_n have_v take_v hold_n of_o very_o many_o there_o remain_v nothing_o else_o to_o the_o good_a but_o sorrow_n and_o be_v wail_v that_o so_o they_o may_v escape_v that_o destruction_n which_o be_v like_a to_o come_v on_o the_o multitude_n of_o the_o wicked_a and_o in_o very_a deed_n say_v he_o if_o the_o contagion_n of_o sin_v have_v invade_v the_o multitude_n the_o severe_a mercy_n of_o divine_a discipline_n be_v necessary_a but_o the_o counsel_n or_o enterprise_n of_o separation_n be_v both_o vain_a and_o pernicious_a yea_o sacrilegious_a because_o than_o they_o become_v both_o impious_a and_o proud_a and_o give_v more_o trouble_n to_o the_o good_a which_o be_v weak_a than_o they_o correct_v the_o sturdy_a one_o who_o be_v evil_a and_o conclude_v this_o point_n he_o give_v this_o advice_n let_v a_o man_n therefore_o with_o mercy_n correct_v what_o he_o can_v and_o that_o which_o he_o can_v let_v he_o bear_v with_o patience_n and_o with_o love_n let_v he_o mourn_v and_o lament_v until_o he_o from_o above_o do_v either_o redress_n and_o amend_v or_o else_o differr_v until_o the_o harvest_n to_o root_v out_o the_o tare_n and_o to_o winnow_v out_o the_o chaff_n and_o here_o he_o allege_v the_o example_n of_o st._n cyprian_n that_o holy_a martyr_n who_o have_v be_v bishop_n of_o carthage_n and_o describe_v the_o multitude_n as_o full_a of_o gross_a sin_n yea_o many_o of_o his_o fellow_n bishop_n as_o spot_v with_o very_o foul_a crime_n but_o yet_o he_o communicate_v with_o they_o though_o not_o in_o their_o sin_n which_o he_o evermore_o reprehend_v yet_o in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o holy_a worship_n of_o god_n nay_o he_o show_v that_o our_o saviour_n himself_o do_v not_o separate_v in_o body_n from_o the_o pharisee_n and_o saducee_n and_o multitude_n of_o common_a people_n but_o meet_v with_o they_o at_o the_o temple_n and_o it_o be_v also_o plain_a that_o the_o african_a church_n in_o st._n augustine_n day_n beside_o their_o evil_a manner_n have_v some_o other_o blemish_n which_o can_v be_v charge_v on_o we_o for_o by_o his_o own_o complaint_n it_o appear_v there_o be_v such_o a_o multitude_n of_o rite_n and_o ceremony_n then_o in_o use_n that_o they_o be_v a_o very_a great_a burden_n and_o the_o church_n be_v oppress_v and_o groan_v under_o they_o and_o therefore_o i_o think_v your_o preciseness_n in_o separate_v from_o we_o be_v more_o like_o the_o disdainful_a and_o proud_a religion_n of_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisee_n than_o the_o humble_a and_o charitable_a purity_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n n._n c._n if_o you_o take_v these_o old_a father_n for_o your_o guide_n they_o will_v lead_v you_o i_o now_o not_o whither_o they_o hold_v many_o strange_a opinion_n c._n i_o suppose_v you_o will_v separate_v from_o they_o too_o if_o they_o be_v alive_a but_o what_o think_v you_o of_o mr._n calvin_n he_o be_v a_o more_o modern_a father_n and_o you_o may_v think_v perhaps_o more_o enlighten_v will_v you_o stand_v to_o his_o judgement_n n._n c._n why_o what_o say_v he_o c._n he_o tell_v you_o that_o wheresoever_o the_o gospel_n be_v pure_o preach_v and_o the_o sacrament_n administer_v according_a to_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n 9_o instit_fw-la book_n 4._o cap._n 1._o sect._n 9_o and_o if_o the_o very_a multitude_n have_v and_o do_v honour_v these_o it_o deserve_v without_o doubt_n to_o be_v esteem_v and_o judge_v a_o church_n because_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o these_o thing_n be_v not_o without_o fruit_n and_o if_o you_o look_v a_o little_a further_o to_o the_o next_o section_n he_o repeat_v it_o again_o with_o much_o earnestness_n 10._o sect._n 10._o there_o appear_v in_o such_o a_o multitude_n as_o he_o mention_v before_o neither_o a_o deceitful_a nor_o doubtful_a face_n of_o a_o church_n of_o which_o no_o man_n may_v either_o despise_v the_o authority_n or_o refuse_v the_o admonition_n or_o resist_v the_o counsel_n or_o mock_v at_o the_o correction_n much_o less_o depart_v from_o it_o break_v in_o sunder_o the_o unity_n of_o it_o and_o go_v unpunished_a for_o the_o lord_n so_o high_o esteem_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n that_o he_o count_v he_o for_o a_o traitorous_a runaway_n and_o forsake_v of_o religion_n whosoever_o shall_v stubborn_o estrange_v himself_o from_o any_o christian_a fellowship_n so_o that_o it_o be_v such_o a_o one_o as_o have_v a_o true_a ministry_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n he_o so_o commend_v the_o church_n authority_n that_o when_o it_o be_v violate_v he_o judge_v his_o own_o diminish_v do_v you_o hear_v this_o n._n c._n yes_o but_o c._n to_o prevent_v all_o your_o exception_n look_v further_o into_o the_o 12._o sect._n and_o there_o he_o will_v tell_v you_o that_o the_o fellowship_n of_o such_o a_o church_n be_v never_o to_o be_v cast_v off_o though_o it_o swarm_v full_a of_o many_o fault_n yea_o and_o there_o may_v be_v some_o faultiness_n creep_v into_o it_o in_o the_o administration_n either_o of_o doctrine_n or_o of_o the_o sacrament_n yet_o it_o ought_v not_o to_o estrange_v we_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o for_o all_o the_o article_n be_v not_o of_o one_o sort_n and_o therefore_o we_o ought_v not_o rash_o for_o every_o light_a dissension_n forsake_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n but_o then_o in_o the_o next_o he_o tell_v you_o that_o in_o bear_v with_o the_o imperfection_n of_o life_n our_o gentle_a tenderness_n ought_v to_o go_v much_o further_o and_o in_o the_o next_o but_o one_o that_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o shun_v the_o private_a company_n of_o a_o wicked_a man_n and_o another_o for_o hatred_n of_o such_o to_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o be_v to_o be_v more_o rigorous_a than_o st._n paul_n and_o although_o this_o temptation_n to_o forsake_v the_o church_n may_v by_o a_o indiscreet_a zeal_n of_o righteousness_n 16._o sect._n 16._o enter_v into_o the_o thought_n of_o a_o good_a man_n yet_o 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perpetual_a in_o the_o church_n as_o we_o read_v in_o mr._n cotton_v catechism_n now_o have_v devise_v these_o thing_n to_o name_v no_o more_o i_o observe_v that_o the_o covenant_n in_o the_o same_o church_n be_v in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o form_n of_o word_n as_o well_o as_o matter_n and_o therefore_o put_v into_o writing_n and_o must_v be_v read_v by_o the_o party_n to_o be_v admit_v or_o he_o must_v hear_v it_o read_v by_o some_o other_o and_o give_v his_o assent_n to_o it_o here_o be_v not_o only_o a_o form_n of_o holy_a covenant_n a_o principal_a point_n of_o worship_n as_o w._n r._n note_n invent_v by_o one_o or_o more_o man_n but_o impose_v upon_o other_o even_o as_o many_o as_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n and_o more_o than_o that_o to_o be_v read_v upon_o a_o book_n what_o be_v this_o better_a or_o how_o be_v it_o more_o lawful_a than_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n especial_o since_o this_o covenant_n be_v impose_v as_o a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o absolute_o 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1637._o and_o the_o apology_n in_o defence_n of_o the_o proceed_n hold_v at_o boston_n 1636._o and_o great_a many_o more_o remarkable_a thing_n there_o be_v in_o that_o story_n which_o i_o can_v stand_v to_o recite_v but_o must_v proceed_v to_o tell_v you_o that_o as_o for_o other_o who_o be_v not_o of_o their_o way_n there_o be_v just_o no_o liberty_n at_o all_o for_o as_o they_o will_v not_o grant_v communion_n to_o member_n of_o other_o church_n not_o constitute_v as_o they_o be_v so_o if_o a_o company_n of_o approve_a godly_a people_n shall_v sit_v down_o near_o they_o where_o their_o power_n reach_v differ_v from_o they_o only_o in_o some_o point_n of_o church_n government_n some_o of_o they_o tell_v we_o not_o only_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v own_v as_o a_o sister_n church_n but_o also_o be_v in_o danger_n of_o severe_a punishment_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 10._o magistrate_n narration_n etc._n etc._n cap._n 10._o n._n c._n what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o our_o 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as_o mr._n feak_v 25._o feak_v beam_n of_o light_n p._n 25._o right_o observe_v leave_v it_o under_o suspense_n and_o undetermined_a which_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n have_v obtain_v the_o high_a degree_n of_o reformation_n the_o scot_n and_o their_o friend_n judge_v the_o kirk_n of_o scotland_n the_o best_a reform_v the_o dissent_v brethren_n approve_v the_o reformation_n of_o new-england_n to_o be_v most_o excellent_a but_o be_v this_o as_o it_o will_v we_o have_v learn_v thus_o much_o from_o what_o have_v be_v relate_v that_o the_o church_n of_o a_o better_a edition_n and_o great_a refinement_n do_v not_o think_v it_o unlawful_a to_o use_v form_n in_o god_n holy_a ordinance_n unto_o which_o they_o bound_v those_o who_o come_v under_o their_o power_n restrain_v they_o also_o from_o open_v their_o mouth_n when_o perhaps_o they_o think_v themselves_o full_a of_o the_o spirit_n and_o deny_v leave_n to_o other_o to_o set_v up_o a_o different_a way_n from_o they_o in_o their_o neighbourhood_n as_o for_o our_o independent_o i_o can_v show_v from_o their_o book_n that_o they_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v as_o severe_a in_o a_o great_a many_o case_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o remember_v as_o heavy_a complaint_n of_o they_o as_o ever_o they_o make_v of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o have_v be_v tell_v that_o they_o daily_o spit_v their_o renom_n private_o and_o public_o against_o those_o that_o separate_v from_o they_o 11._o they_o vanity_n of_o the_o present_a church_n p._n 3._o and_o 11._o etc._n etc._n n._n c._n it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o to_o relate_v all_o those_o thing_n but_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v how_o this_o will_v stand_v with_o christian_a liberty_n c._n do_v you_o think_v that_o it_o consist_v in_o be_v tie_v to_o no_o law_n at_o all_o n._n c._n none_o but_o go_n c._n take_v heed_n what_o you_o say_v n._n c._n in_o matter_n of_o worship_n i_o mean_v c._n that_o be_v absurd_a as_o i_o have_v show_v you_o god_n law_n have_v only_o give_v we_o the_o general_a rule_n whereby_o thing_n to_o be_v order_v in_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o our_o governor_n be_v to_o make_v particular_a law_n and_o we_o be_v to_o obey_v they_o or_o else_o there_o will_v be_v nothing_o but_o confusion_n yet_o still_o our_o christian_a liberty_n remain_v because_o first_o we_o be_v not_o tie_v to_o this_o or_o that_o pattern_n or_o model_n but_o our_o governor_n have_v liberty_n to_o establish_v whatsoever_o be_v in_o itself_o indifferent_a shall_v seem_v to_o they_o most_o expedient_a for_o maintain_v comeliness_n and_o order_n and_o second_o when_o any_o order_n be_v establish_v this_o be_v our_o liberty_n as_o our_o divine_n teach_v you_o that_o we_o do_v not_o use_v they_o as_o any_o part_n of_o divine_a worship_n as_o some_o of_o you_o do_v nor_o as_o meritorious_a and_o satisfactory_a nor_o as_o necessary_a to_o justification_n or_o salvation_n but_o only_o for_o discipline_n and_o good_a order_n sake_n and_o last_o by_o consequence_n the_o same_o authority_n may_v alter_v they_o and_o have_v not_o so_o tie_v up_o itself_o to_o they_o but_o that_o it_o be_v at_o liberty_n to_o abolish_v those_o in_o case_n of_o inconvenience_n arise_v and_o establish_v other_o in_o the_o room_n but_o such_o a_o liberty_n as_o leaf_n man_n loose_a from_o all_o law_n and_o order_n save_v those_o that_o they_o shall_v choose_v themselves_o be_v a_o wild_a fancy_n which_o your_o minister_n condemn_v as_o well_o as_o we_o mr._n dury_n for_o instance_n a_o very_a moderate_a presbyterian_a tell_v the_o independent_a brethren_n we_o must_v expect_v no_o such_o liberty_n as_o shall_v break_v the_o bond_n of_o spiritual_a unity_n which_o by_o the_o allowance_n of_o a_o public_a toleration_n of_o a_o different_a church_n government_n may_v be_v occasion_v to_o keep_v therefore_o unity_n entire_a a_o few_o must_v